Thursday Morning Open Thread: He’s Losing the Media, Too


Apart from cheering on the HATERZ & LUZERS, what’s on the agenda for the day?

Nothing so concentrates the journalistic mind as the prospect…

142 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    I’ll take the media’s side over Trump, but they are his least sympathetic victims.

  2. 2
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Baud: But also among those with the most power to harm him. Don’t you think Trump’s looking… tired?

    Not to mention, you don’t have to like a weathervane’s style in order to use it as a gauge.

  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning,Everyone 😐😐😐

  4. 4
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  5. 5
    MattF says:

    Tucker Carlson re: Trump watching eclipse with out eye protection:

    Even the president saw it, but in a move that wasn’t a complete surprise, he looked directly at the sun without any glasses, perhaps the most impressive thing any president has ever done.

    Once people started mocking him for saying that, Carlson claimed he was making a joke, which.. would be the most impressive thing he’s ever done.

  6. 6
    SectionH says:

    @Anne Laurie: I doubt it’ll work if the subject isn’t sufficiently female… FSM knows I wish it would.

  7. 7
    TriassicSands says:


    …they are his least sympathetic victims.

    I’m sorry, Baud, but you have a worsening case of media hatred derangement syndrome. I think you’re really overdoing it here. I’m concerned about your health.

    Do you really think the media are worse than McConnell? Or any of the Republicans Trump has gone after?

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    @TriassicSands: I don’t consider them victims.

  9. 9
    TriassicSands says:


    I’m not sure I see the distinction. Trump doesn’t appear to see one. They are all targets for his righteous wrath, because he is the greatest victim in all of human history.

  10. 10
    SectionH says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning!

  11. 11
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    Thought my fellow jackals might get a laugh out of this Guardian article. I laughed out loud, while crying (raging also) on the inside.
    Edited to fix my not proof reading

  12. 12
    p.a. says:

    We always knew they wouldn’t stand up on their hind legs until they were directly threatened, didn’t we? “First they came for the, ho-humm, yadda yadda, oh shit we’re next!

  13. 13
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    perhaps the most impressive thing any president has ever done.

    Yes, because the blatant stupidity of a 3 year old in a 71 yr old body is impressive.

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @TriassicSands: I don’t care what Trump sees. The GOP are not victims because they are the Frankenstein to this monster.

  15. 15
    NotMax says:

    There’s an app for that, indeed.

    It’s part of a new augmented reality app called the Museum of Yesterday: a deliberate contrast to the flashy Museum of Tomorrow, built ahead of the Rio 2016 Olympics. Its creators, local journalism nonprofit Agência Pública, describe the app as a combination of journalism, art, and technology, inspired by Pokémon Go.

    For years, many Brazilians have said the country’s story of slavery is being buried from view – literally, in Rio, where new developments have hidden key historical sites. The consequences of that ‘invisibility,’ they argue, are felt today, in the diverse country’s urgent debates about racial inequality, with mixed-race and black citizens disproportionately impacted by poverty and violence.

    The Museum of Yesterday app is trying to make that invisible history visible. As users walk through Rio’s Port Zone, icons on its map flash at points of interest, and users can “unlock” information: old photos and illustrations, informational text in English or Portuguese, recordings of old newspaper ads for slaves, and other scenes of everyday life during the 18th and 19th centuries. Source

  16. 16
    TriassicSands says:

    Hey, cut those three-year-olds some slack. They aren’t necessarily stupid, they’re young and just don’t know much yet. I think it would be better to use ignorance than stupidity, don’t you?

    In a way, it’s always a little painful to see Trump compared with almost anything, since it inevitably is negative for the other entity. Yes, he is a child in a man’s body, but when you turn that kind of comparison around it seems so unfair.

    Trump is like a 3-year-old.
    A 3-year-old is like Trump.

    That seems so unfair to the 3-year-old.

    I always feel a little sorry for whomever or whatever gets drawn into Trump’s world.

    Trump is like Mussolini.
    Mussolini was like Trump.

    See, I immediately feel sorry for Mussolini.

    Note: There are exceptions. Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot come to mind.

  17. 17
    SectionH says:

    @Baud: Damn straight.

  18. 18
    low-tech cyclist says:


    I’ll take the media’s side over Trump, but they are his least sympathetic victims.

    Gotta say, trifecta’s takedown of that worthless scum Jim VandeHei was a thing of beauty.

  19. 19
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @TriassicSands: A couple yrs ago I was at MO Botanical Gardens with my 4 yr old granddaughter. My son told her to not touch the spines of a prickly pear cactus because she would get needles in her hand. Sure as shit, 5 mins later she’s hiding her hand behind her back. I recall a somewhat similar incident from my own childhood. The difference is, we have the capacity to learn to listen to those who know better. Trump can’t.

  20. 20
    SectionH says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Shaw’s Garden. I love that place so much.

    Similar incident from my childhood, oh yes. The Don’t Touch the Thing. It so didn’t traumatize me.

    I love that place. Srsly, the MBG has the best online plant info of them all. They’re brilliant.

    eta: do they still have the underwater walk-through thing?

  21. 21
    JAFD says:

    Good morning, gentlefolk !

    Be there any further word on the mentioned meetup in NYC over Labor Day weekend ? Am tossing ‘head outa town or not’ mental coins.

  22. 22
    gene108 says:


    Little kids are the way they are because they are kids. A normal child can return affection given to him or her.

    Trump is incapable of showing affection to anyone.

    He is a really damaged individual.

    I don’t feel sorry for him. At his age he made those decisions to be like he is.

  23. 23
    NotMax says:


    Shall be sending new info to Anne Laurie about that, probably tomorrow.

    Right now, consensus seems to favor Friday, Sept. 1. Just need to lock that in at the venue which have in mind.

  24. 24
    TriassicSands says:


    You’re right — the difference is Trump never progressed past the early childhood stage. The other difference is motivation. Tell a little kid not to do something and it triggers an irresistible compulsion to do it. In Trump’s case…wait, the irresistible compulsion is there for Trump, too, except maybe the kid does it out of curiosity and Trump does it to show that no one can tell him not to do something.

    That’s why I called on Jeff Flake to demand that Trump pardon Arpaio. Wouldn’t Trump have to show Flake that he wasn’t taking orders from some weak on crime and immigration senator? And not pardon Arpaio.

  25. 25

    The question is not so much does Trump have a mental disorder such as dementia, which I am both familiar with in my own family but also wary of diagnosing from afar, but who is going to be the force to get those who can do something about it to deal with it?

  26. 26
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    When the roundups of Trump critics happen, I hope I’m third tier so that I can at least laugh while KKK paramilitaries drag Chuck off the set live.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    do they still have the underwater walk-through thing?

    Don’t know, never seen it. I don’t get there very often and in the past 5 yrs it has only been with my granddaughter, and she wants to see what she wants to see. My job as PawPaw is to see to it that she does.

  28. 28
    satby says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning 🙋

  29. 29
    satby says:

    @TriassicSands: The Republicans thought they’d get another malleable senile Reagan in Trump: someone who would sign whatever they put in front of him and keep the rubes fired up with rallies. They knew he was unfit and stupid, but assumed that since he picked their side he’d play for the team and they could play him. So no, they’re not victims at all.
    Neither are the media, and I haven’t an iota of sympathy for their worries right now. They helped put Trump in power. NOW they’re worried? Too fucking late, losers.

  30. 30
    Marmot says:


    At his age he made those decisions to be like he is.

    Trump is a malignant narcissist, which is a hard thing to grasp unless you’ve met one before. I can see why he’s often labeled as suffering dementia, but the evidence isn’t nearly as compelling.

    Not that anyone should feel sorry for a true narcissist. I certainly don’t. The closest metaphor is the scorpion traveling across the river on the frog’s back.

  31. 31

    @satby: I get it why people are sticking with Trump. For whatever reason, be it racist backlash against Barack Obama and his genteel and maddening way he put up with the vulgarities, never letting them get his goat, or the misogynistic madness against Hillary Clinton, or whether they truly fell for the balls, bullshit, and poppycock that Trump sold them on in the same way a late-night infomercial sells boner pills and teddy bears, and now they’re damned and ashamed to admit that they were snookered. Or they’re genuine racists and sexists and have as low opinion of the rest of the country as Trump does; they’re even envious of his ability to acquire wealth, wives, and stiff hair. But the show’s over, folks; not only has Elvis left the building, he keyed your cars on the way out.

  32. 32
    TriassicSands says:


    I don’t feel sorry for him.

    Neither do I. I would be pissed if they found him mentally ill or suffering from dementia and that was seen as a reason to feel sorry for him. He was a horrible person by choice long before issues of dementia or mental illness arose.

    On the other hand, if they found him mentally compromised and that allowed for his removal from office, that would be a good thing. Again, though, I’d be mad that history would record that he was removed from office due to mental infirmities, when he was never — on his best day — fit to be president. His speeches today reflect the same mindset that has guided his behavior his entire adult life.

    Like most people who comment here, my feelings about Trump are difficult to put into words that seem adequate to the task.

  33. 33
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Trump does it to show that no one can tell him not to do something.

    There it is.

  34. 34
    ThresherK says:


    Baud 2020: Hey, he’s not my monster!

  35. 35
    hueyplong says:

    At some point, one of the military guys in the White House will feel compelled to physically restrain Trump from doing something, and the Secret Service (and probably Pence) will have a decision to make.

    Can’t believe I’m semi-seriously contemplating such a thing about the POTUS. Trump turns everything he touches into something fecal, including that institution.

    It’s entirely possible that Trump is ten times more destructive than Putin assumed he’d be.

  36. 36
    debbie says:


    Trump has never had to be accountable, period. For the first time in his 70 years, people are pushing back against his freedom to do whatever he wants without consequences. Poor thing hates consequences.

  37. 37
    bystander says:

    @ThresherK: Better than Baud! Step Back, You Creep. But I think that idea was just a grab at the firebaggers.

  38. 38
    Kay says:


    I agree. The “fake news” accusation is deliberate. He uses it to discredit true stories about him that he doesn’t want his followers to believe. He never calls good news fake. Dementia is random. It’s not self-serving.

    I was reading this piece about the Dylann Roof- the Charlotte church shooter. This is his father:

    Benn Roof never showed up at his son’s trial. (Contacted later, Benn Roof declined to participate in this story further, describing it as “fake news.”)

  39. 39
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @debbie: For the first time since his father died, anyway. That time in military school probably was an attempt to get him some self-discipline.

  40. 40
    bystander says:

    Speaking of talent-free nepotistic media creations, Willie Geist is very handsome, but his analysis is just flat footed series of cliches and fabricated narrative.

  41. 41
    Baud says:

    @bystander: So you’re saying he’s perfect for cable news?

  42. 42
    debbie says:


    People need to start shouting, “Fake President!” at all Trump appearances.

  43. 43
    Lapassionara says:

    @Mustang Bobby: The question I have is how many people are in his “base”? We know he got 15 million votes in the primary, and I think 62 million in the general. So where did those other votes come from? Around where I live, the people who voted for him did so because they always vote for the R, based on their veneration of John Danforth. They don’t seem like the type of people who would find his current words and deeds to be acceptable. I know polls show a fairly strong percentage of Republicans sticking with him, but what I don’t know is how big is the Republican Party.

    So, I am still trying to understand the size of his base.

    Good morning, everyone.

  44. 44
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    I want the New York media moguls who thought it was just brilliant to stick a megaphone in front of the asshole’s face for his idiot opinions the last 30 years to answer for it. I want Richard Vigueries, David Bossie, Grover Norquist, Shelly Adelson, the Koch Brothers and the DeVos/Prince families waterboarded for their secrets – all the meetings and all the communications. The news executives who eschewed budgeting for investigative reporting and instead went to “both sides” talking heads who loved discussing “optics” and “effective messaging” to explain why they shouldn’t be treated as traitors to truth.

    I want the spectacle of show trials, tumbrels and shrieking media, donors and manipulating figures pleading in vain for their continued existence. Like Strelnikov from Dr Zhivago, I harbor a desire for bloody vengeance and justice.

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    The Republican Establishment Stands Behind Trump
    by McKay Coppins


    In the wake of the violence in Charlottesville, The Atlantic reached out to 146 Republican state party chairs and national committee members for reaction to Trump’s handling of the events. We asked each official two questions: Are you satisfied with the president’s response? And do you approve of his comment that there were “some very fine people” who marched alongside the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis?

    The vast majority refused to comment on the record, or simply met the questions with silence. Of the 146 GOP officials contacted, just 22 offered full responses—and only seven expressed any kind of criticism or disagreement with Trump’s handling of the episode. The rest came to the president’s defense, either with statements of support or attempts at justification.

    Dr. Frankenstein.

  46. 46
    bystander says:

    @Baud: The perfect set of tools for the job.

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Good idea.

  48. 48
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Poor thing hates consequences.

    And the only consequences he has faced are “people saying mean things about him.”

  49. 49
    bystander says:

    Chuck Todd:

    Sad how few elected officials condemn it


    Of the 146 GOP officials contacted, just 22 offered full responses—and only seven expressed any kind of criticism or disagreement with Trump’s handling of the episode.

    Todd could never say “repub politicians” even though many, many Dems have spoken out because bothsides.

  50. 50
    Kay says:


    Oh, he’s the real President, all right. Apparently people admire him for the fact that he doesn’t apologize, or show remorse, and he never backs down:

    Almost every white person I spoke with in Charleston during the trial praised the church’s resounding forgiveness of the young white man who shot their members down. The forgiveness was an absolution of everything. No one made mention that this forgiveness was individual, not collective. Some of the victims and their families forgave him, and some of them did not. No one acknowledged that Dylann Roof had not once apologized, shown any remorse, or asked for this forgiveness. Or the fact that with 573 days to think about his crime, Dylann Roof stood in front of the jurors and, with that thick, slow tongue of his, said without any hesitation whatsoever, “I felt like I had to do it, and I still feel like I had to do it.”

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    Tell it satby 😄

  52. 52
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: What a son of a bitch. Like father, like son.

  53. 53
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    Of course they do. The Nazi Party would have fallen flat on its face without the tacit support of garden variety German conservatives fearful of negroes, jazz music and modernism. Easy to be supine and have furrowed brows over atrocities if you are keeping your coalition together in order to combat the evil influence of Louis Armstrong.

  54. 54
    Baud says:


    Too fucking late, losers.

    I believe the current phrase is, “You own this, asshole.”

  55. 55
    Nicole says:

    @Debbie(aussie): That article. Oh my. Those people are… not well-informed, shall we say. The young man at the end of the article, though, is in full-blown teen rebellion (I have a cousin who was the same way, but he came around in his early 20s).

    I did laugh at the one who said he voted for Trump because he didn’t want a President who was being investigated by the FBI. Who, I wonder, is going to break the news to him?

  56. 56
    debbie says:


    I’d love to know the psychology behind this “forgiveness.” I think it’s something else, maybe knowing that they would have done the same thing themselves.

  57. 57
    debbie says:


    I gotta find a way to monetize that! ;)

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    The question I have is how many people are in his “base”?


  59. 59
    Kay says:


    It is dangerous, though. No one wants to say it but making journalists the enemy at those rallies is dangerous to journalists. 99.9999% of those far Right ralliers in Charlottesville didn’t go there to kill anyone but one did, and one is all it takes.

    He’s putting a target on their backs. Will he be the direct cause if one of his followers goes nuts and acts out? No. But he will have set the stage. Purely self-serving. He doesn’t care that it adds risk to other people doing their jobs. He wants to cover his own ass and deny the true stories about himself so he says it.

  60. 60
    rikyrah says:

    Let him be an anvil for them.😠😠

  61. 61
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: I’d like to see a venn diagram of the GOP and neo-nazi’s. It would shame them if they had any souls but those were sold a long time ago.

  62. 62
    kilo50 says:

    I don’t think Trump has dementia. I once did, but if you watch his performance in AZ he was very aware of the mood and reaction of his followers and much of what we attribute to a crazy factor is simply vulgarity. That’s the connection between him and his base. Their vulgarity is so intense that it is explained as evil. His base is the infection and like a boil Trump is the pus that exhibits that infection. His followers have abandoned civility, ethic and moral long before Trump. He simply recognized it and devised an appeal that told his cult following that it was OK to be a rotten person.

  63. 63
    rikyrah says:

    The best thing about Charlottesville was that we weren’t subjected to that LONE WOLF bullshyt, that White Domestic Terrorists get assigned.
    Dylan Roof had no job. No source of income. How the phuck did he get the weapons. Where did he hang out while in hiding. Lone Wolf my azz.

  64. 64
    Kay says:


    He’s actually gotten worse. At the last rally he said words to the effect that he could stand fake news stories about himself, but he couldn’t bear when media paint his followers in an unflattering light. He’s now making it personal to them. THEY are being attacked by media. He’s ratcheting up the hatred- spreading it.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    Those families that forgave?
    What’s behind it?

  66. 66
    Schlemazel says:

    @Anne Laurie:
    They will line up to kiss President Dense’s ass as soon as they can get a chance.

  67. 67
    kilo50 says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The issue of French Colonial troops in the occupation of the Rhineland scandalized the Germans even though the number of children born of African fathers was minuscule it was used to inflame sentiments surrounding the whole Treaty of Versailles anger.

  68. 68
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: They’re not sympathetic at all. They covered him as if he was a rock star during the election cycle even though he encouraged his supporters to verbally assault them during his rallies. What the hell did they expect him to do now that he is President?

  69. 69
  70. 70

    @SectionH: Good story. My son stuck his tongue to a metal pipe on the playground in winter because he heard you weren’t supposed to do that and wanted to know why. He said it hurt. And he never did it again.

    Trump just does it again.

  71. 71
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @kilo50: He’s an egomaniac. To try to put his horrible behavior on dementia is a cop out, imho. Plus, why would behaving like a douche equate to having dementia? He has always been a horrible person — even when he was a whole lot younger.

  72. 72
    Schlemazel says:

    Not sure about baud but I believe the media is worse. NOTE: he said LEAST sympathetic which is different that what your argument is but I’ll respond to your challenge not bauds, correct, statement

    The media has enabled the GOP and ignored the teeny-tiny problem they have with racism and bigotry, treating them as if they have legitimate arguments to be made if they mention it at all. For them to now suddenly be concerned that the firehose is turned on them is the height of privilege; “we didn’t care because we were not the target but now that we are everyone MUST be concerned”

    EDIT: I see baud answered, still like mine better and @p.a.: capsulizes it very nicely

  73. 73
    kilo50 says:

    @Kay: yeah i noticed that as well. The Right has been thorughly indoctrinated to disbelieve anything from the mass media. Now he is tying their pernicious lies to his followers to as you say make it personal; make it appear that they are personally damaged by CNN of MSNBC. How that connection can be made to be seen as reality shows just how far into the darkness of a cult his followers have traveled.

  74. 74
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: How much evidence do we need of Republicans being racist to figure out that that is who they are? The VA GOP had to delete a tweet criticizing the Democratic Gubernatorial candidate of turning his back on his slave-owning ancestors.

  75. 75
    Kay says:


    That piece is good. Roof really did “have a black friend”. He was unpopular and his mother befriended the mother of a boy in his class. She “encouraged” the friendship between Roof and a (more popular) African American classmate. It sounds like the black kid sort of dutifully went along with this for a time and then dropped Roof because (everyone) describes Roof as “slow witted” – just not someone who was in the same social circle as the black kid. Roof was then completely adrift- he couldn’t even make real connections among online white supremecists.

  76. 76
    kilo50 says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Yes. I think of his followers as an eruption of immorality. The whole hatred for any of their “enemies” is just a complete negation of any sympathetic feelings for anyone not of their tribe. Supposedly the Evangelicals are his strongest supporters but that figures since they are so easily led to believe nonsense. Trump simply gave all the deplorables free licence to let their freak flag fly.

  77. 77
    Schlemazel says:

    I have no knowledge of daily life in Brazil but years ago had read that it was the most integrated and racially equitable nations in the New World. The article explained that as so many people being mixed race that nobody cared. Reading the CSM story makes me sad because I thought they had this thing figured out.

  78. 78
    Another Scott says:

    @kilo50: Dementia is like any disease in that it doesn’t attack organs uniformly. Compare his interview with German TV a couple of days after 9/11 with any interview with him over the last couple of years. He’s brain-damaged. Yes, he knows how to whip up a crowd – his narcissism center is intact (and maybe even over-compensating), but he can’t speak in coherent paragraphs. He can’t tell a consistent story from one day to the next. He seems to think that what he says on Twitter and his Rallies is one world, while what he says at press “conferences” is another and that they’re totally separate. He doesn’t understand why people in Congress and the Courts won’t do what he says. He thinks there’s no difference between campaigning and governing except that once you win the election that everyone should do what he says no matter what. He thinks that giving a speech or saying something on Twitter makes it happen.

    He’s brain damaged. He’s a danger to the USA and the world, and (of course) he needs to go.

    My $0.02.


  79. 79
    Schlemazel says:

    Very nicely done!

  80. 80
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @debbie: Trump deliberately only goes around crowds who adore him. He cannot stand any criticism whatsoever. That’s probably why he will skip out on the Kennedy Center Award ceremonies. He’d blow up if anyone booed him since he can’t control himself.

  81. 81
    kilo50 says:

    @Another Scott: I’ve seen some of the old videos and yeah he is markedly more coherent and sensible than now. And I can believe that he is possibly to some degree afflicted with some sort of mental impairment. But he is functioning enough to push his followers buttons and push and persuade them in the directions he wants them to go. Until he has a mental impairment live on stage the powers that be in the GOP are still going to prop him up and use him to their ends.

  82. 82
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The VA GOP had to delete a tweet criticizing the Democratic Gubernatorial candidate of turning his back on his slave-owning ancestors.

    Accusing your rival of being a Race Traitor is definitely saying the quiet part loud.

  83. 83
    rikyrah says:

    They don’t have it figured out. In America, I am considered a light skinned Black woman. Not passing, but I pass the paper bag test with flying colors.
    I can still remember the argument with Brazilians when I told them that I am Black. Tried to argue me under the table. For all the issues with colorism that the Black community in America has…at least we acknowledge it.Brazil doesn’t

  84. 84
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rikyrah: Where are the drones to vaporize the online hate-mongers who radicalized Roof? If it’s good enough for radical imam Anwar al-Awlaki, it’s good enough for imperial wizard Goober McButtcrack.

  85. 85
    Schlemazel says:

    I wonder what the reaction of the GOP, particularly the 50% that are his base, and from the media, if one of the cranks pulls a ‘Dylan Roof’ on the media. Would that finally get the message home or would they successfully blame ‘the left’?

  86. 86
    Kay says:

    What will bring down Trump is his response to a crisis that happens externally. He’s not going to attack another country. He can’t even fire people. He’s a coward and a blowhard. Calculated aggression from him won’t be the crisis. It will be his inept response to conditions and events he doesn’t control. Trump’s biggest failure so far was his response to a crisis- the terrorist attack in Charlottesville. He’s not up to this job. God help us if there’s a worse crisis.

    What these people around him are doing by allowing him to remain is increasing the risk to everyone else. They are putting all of us at risk to protect this President, telling themselves they can intervene or somehow mitigate the damage if he’s forced to respond to an event he didn’t anticipate. That’s the bet they’re making.

  87. 87
    Tenar Arha says:

    @TriassicSands: @Baud: They are living out the “first they came for…” poem, which has been so misused and abused that it has lost its resonance.

    The media, particularly the entertainment complex around the news that every cable pundit and political personality gossip rag has courted, created Trump. They treated him like a serious person. They held the mike for him. They made a fortune off of him by propping him up for clicks and ratings. They didn’t put him in the doghouse and ignore him when he said all those vile things about people before, they gave him a bigger microphone. And they simultaneously held a good government nerd up as a villain.

    Now they’re worried, when they were told that what they were doing was terribly dangerous. It’s not that the danger isn’t clear to any of us. But I know I can’t express sympathy for their plight convincingly. I’ve essentially been at a level 10 siren, screaming about the dangers to the media for a while. I’m out of empathy and words.

    ETA Basically I think exhaustion can seem like lack of empathy. And valid schadenfreude, can appear as lack of concern if you predicted these results.

  88. 88
    Kay says:

    You saw the cowardice in that speech. He’s not a “fighter”. He gets peeved when things don’t go his way. NAFTA negotiations must not be going his way (because the other negotiators are probably running rings around him because he doesn’t know the first thing about trade and he hires bad people). His response? He’s taking his ball and going home.

  89. 89
    Schlemazel says:

    SIGH. I guess the old article I read was PR work. Thats depressing, I had hoped someone was doing better

  90. 90
    Baud says:

    @Kay: We haven’t even reached 9/11 of Trump’s first year.

  91. 91
    Weaselone says:

    They weren’t even concerned when he initially turned on the fire hose. The media has actively assisted Trump in his efforts to put a noose around their necks. They’re only sputtering now because the chinchilla on Chuck Todd’s face got caught in the rope.

  92. 92
    M31 says:


    Trump’s biggest failure so far was his response to a crisis- the terrorist attack in Charlottesville.

    and all he had to do was say ‘Nazis are bad’ — and he failed

  93. 93
  94. 94
    Schlemazel says:

    But do remember that he is the dipstick that asked his generals “what good are nuclear weapons if we don’t use them?”

    I expect his response to a threat would be an overreaction.

  95. 95
    Kay says:


    I think the point the writer was trying to make was that white people seized on the black church’s forgiveness of Roof because that makes white people feel better. That’s a sort of common theme white people like with AA religious people- that they are good and kind and not scary. It’s like when white people point out that the civil rights marchers w/King wore suits and dresses, as if their “goodness” and “politeness” was the admirable thing, and not their bravery. We didn’t hear about the angry relatives who made victim impact statements at Roof’s trial (and there were a lot of them- they were angry, rightfully so) because that goes against the narrative that all is forgiven.

  96. 96
    Dave says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: The crazy thing is that they really honestly did. This the dark side of comfort and power. You begin to think everything is a game that none of it has consequences. Until the ugly orange consequences are occupy the oval office and don’t agree to abide by the polite rules of the game.

  97. 97
    kilo50 says:

    @Schlemazel: That nuclear threat yeah. What about an ebola threat or environmental toxic spill of some sort. having downgraded the CDC and EPA leaves us at risk becuz nuking it ain’t gonna work for those situations.

  98. 98
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Pass/Fail?

  99. 99
    NotMax says:


    Oh no, a pop quiz!

  100. 100
    kilo50 says:

    @Kay: Christian forgiveness, repeatedly to infinity, is probably one of the only ways that white people, in this case white evangelical Protestants can relate to any sort of AA experience. Otherwise it is a mystery to them.

  101. 101
    Schlemazel says:

    He has multiple failure modes, I am not going to discount any one of them

  102. 102
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: Dunno. It might not even need to be an external crisis. If the forecasts are right, Houston and Galveston may wash out into Gulf of Mexico in the next week or so. Will Donnie and FEMA be able to do anything to help people and minimize loss of life and property?

    Katrina was a big part of what finally brought W and the GOP down in the ’00s…

    We’ll see. It’s unfortunate that it takes a disaster to get (far too many) people to pay attention.



  103. 103
    MomSense says:


    Do you really think the media are worse than McConnell? Or any of the Republicans Trump has gone after?

    I don’t think we would be dealing with McConnell, fuck you Paul Ryan, Trump, and any of the worst Republicans if the media hadn’t failed so spectacularly for decades.

  104. 104
    Schlemazel says:

    @Another Scott:
    He will blame Obama & the media will allow it

  105. 105
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    Keep in mind, that those white evangelicals expect it from the AA community, but don’t give it.

    It is purely a one way bleat.

  106. 106
    FlipYrWhig says:


    I wonder what the reaction of the GOP, particularly the 50% that are his base, and from the media, if one of the cranks pulls a ‘Dylan Roof’ on the media.

    From his supporters: boisterous, unrepentant cheering. From the media: furrowed brows and more interviews with Trump supporters about why they still love Trump.

  107. 107
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Schlemazel: Nah — the media doesn’t like obvious incompetence. It’s part of their both-sider-ist ideology. This is, I think, part of why they’re so aghast about the Charlottesville thing: they know that there’s A Way To Behave during some sort of national tragedy, just _minimally_. They longed for something as hackish and lousy as Bush with the bullhorn. And Trump couldn’t even manage that.

  108. 108
    kilo50 says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The Trump diehard base of white evangelicals are some of the nastiest least prone to self reflection zombies I have ever met. Self absolution as they go through their day. Must be nice.

  109. 109
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    I agree. The “fake news” accusation is deliberate. He uses it to discredit true stories about him that he doesn’t want his followers to believe. He never calls good news fake. Dementia is random. It’s not self-serving.

    Except Trump’s been doing that since the ’80s. Dementia doesn’t effect long term habits and memory and I would rather expect Trump to be worse about the blatant lying since he would lose the ability to read the people he is talk to at the moment.

  110. 110
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    As ideologies go, the self-absolution thing is the most disgusting part. “Ah done sinned and y’all had best fergive me, or Ah will say yer not a lover o’ mah personal Lo-ard an’ Savior Jesus Chraaaaast….”

    Then they go and do the same thing, over and over again, never bettering themselves, never making restitution or recompense to their victims, and using their theology as a bludgeon against all others.

  111. 111
    Schlemazel says:

    They do love the furrowed brow, deep concern and no actual action

  112. 112
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Keep in mind, that those white evangelicals expect it from the AA community, but don’t give it.

    Of course not, Christ guides ALL white evangelical actions like what sandwich to eat or what car to buy, so it’s un-possible for them to do anyone offense.

  113. 113
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: we don’t call them talibangelicals for nothing.

  114. 114
    kilo50 says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Justified by faith alone covers a whole lot of sin. Conveniently.

  115. 115
    bystander says:

    @Kay: If only someone could have predicted what would happen once a narcissistic, multiple bankrupt tv personality allied with foreign oligarchs was elected to head the executive branch.

  116. 116
    Wapiti says:

    @Tenar Arha:

    They are living out the “first they came for…” poem, which has been so misused and abused that it has lost its resonance.

    They’re also at serious risk of being pieces in a retelling of Henry II/Becket. “Will no one rid me of these meddlesome journalists?” With stochastic terrorism, no one on this site will be particularly surprised when some “lone wolf” RWNJ kills a journalist. I won’t be surprised if the victim is a woman, because RWNJs tend towards misogyny as well.

  117. 117
    bystander says:

    I wish I had thought far enough in advance to have graphed the frequency with which I have shrieked “eff you” at the tv over the past 17 years.

  118. 118
    danielx says:

    For all of Trump’s bluster at Tuesday evening’s campaign rally — against the media, Democrats, and some Republicans — a rebuke of his own staff lay just beneath the surface, the latest indication that efforts to rein him in instead cause him to act out.

    ‘Acting out’ is something that I’ve always associated with children, the daughter unit being no exception. The major difference being that there’s nobody to tell Lord Shortfingers that he can either do what he’s told to do without a fuss or with a fuss, because he is going to do it eventually. He certainly spends a lot of effort, time and drama to get across a simple message, that being ‘you ain’t the boss of me, nor is anybody else’.

  119. 119
    MomSense says:


    Holy cow that was a smorgasbord of stupid. And people on the left still think we should try to persuade these numbskulls.

  120. 120
    Ksmiami says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You’re not the boss of meeeeee

  121. 121
    kilo50 says:

    @MomSense: In high school these were the people whose eyes glazed over in American History 101. No intellectual curiosity at all. I’m not saying we have all the smarts. What I am saying is they have no curiosity. And certainly no interest in empirical facts. They “think” with their gut. Thus the appeal by Trump to their prejudices. They are therefore always right regardless of fact or evidence. Persuading them is truly a “Lost Cause”.

  122. 122
    Ksmiami says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Agreed- The concentration of the infotainment industry has really played a huge factor in how we arrived at this point and its unsustainable. The media companies need to be reregulated with a huge wall put up between hard truth news and everything else.

  123. 123
    rikyrah says:


    I think the point the writer was trying to make was that white people seized on the black church’s forgiveness of Roof because that makes white people feel better. That’s a sort of common theme white people like with AA religious people- that they are good and kind and not scary.

    True, and it infuriates Black people like me. The MSM always going to BLACK people, asking if they’ve forgiven the perpetrator.


    If it’s any member of my family, I’m saying

  124. 124

    Trump is a malignant narcissist, which is a hard thing to grasp unless you’ve met one before. I can see why he’s often labeled as suffering dementia, but the evidence isn’t nearly as compelling.

    @Marmot: I know two. It is easy to think it’s dementia (oddly enough, I know two people with that as well). Their stories are never the same. It’s not because they can’t keep track of their stories. They simply don’t give a shit if you believe them or not – the only thing they care about is that you’re giving them what they want.

  125. 125

    @Dave: That’s part of the damage the horse race narrative of politics does. It’s a sport, not literally a life and death matter.

  126. 126
    ruemara says:

    @satby: sit by me, we’re in agreement.

  127. 127
    TomatoQueen says:

    @rikyrah: It’s been reported that Roof was given the weapon by his father as a birthday present. Roof lived in a trailer park with friends, including at least one who was quite aware of his beliefs and possibly his plans altho’ that was not made clear in the end. All WaPo reporting at the time.

  128. 128
    Kathleen says:

    @TriassicSands: i agree with Bsud and in their way media have been every bit ad pernicious as McConnell and his fellow Thugs. Media have been enabling them for years.

  129. 129
    msdc says:

    @Baud: More like accomplices who get shivved in the inevitable falling out over the loot.

  130. 130
    WaterGirl says:

    @bystander: It would be interesting to know the event and exact date that the first “What the fuck is wrong with these people?” came out of my mouth, and then chart its frequency thereafter.

  131. 131
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kathleen: The media is worse. Politicians are expected to be partisan; the media is supposed to report the facts. The media rode the Trump train harder than anybody else.

    @msdc: Absolutely. The media drove the getaway car, and now they are shocked at the robbery and want the police to arrest the guys who robbed the bank.

  132. 132
    Seanly says:


    All 9 of those people interviewed by the Guardian are idiots of the first order. Everything they said was completely stupid.

  133. 133
    MomSense says:


    I so agree with you. What bothered me about W. Bush and mucho moreso about Trump is that they are so damned incurious. Trump doesn’t even want to play golf on courses he doesn’t know.

    I’d bet that most of us who frequent balloon-juice, if we had the financial resources of a bush or a trump, would be traveling, taking classes, and doing all sorts of interesting things.

  134. 134
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mustang Bobby: late to the party, but I just have to say that I think this is one of the most brilliant one-paragraph summations I’ve ever seen. If you don’t put in a play sometime, I’ll be very disappoint’. Bravo!

  135. 135
    cokane says:

    the Electoral College wasn’t a compromise to protect slavery, but rather a compromise between big states and little states. Just as the makeup of the legislature is, which is where its numbers come from.

  136. 136
    Chitown Kev says:

    @rikyrah: Me too.

  137. 137
    Citizen Alan says:


    Do you really think the media are worse than McConnell? Or any of the Republicans Trump has gone after?

    I do. Republican politicians, those selfish monsters, are at least acting in obvious self-interest. Their motives are comprehensible, if odious. The villagers, on the other hand, are just jaded sociopathic courtiers straight out of Versailles for whom political decisions that affect the lives of Millions are nothing more than an amusing parlor game. As an institution, journalism has failed America. And the journalists who played Igor to the GOP Dr. Frankenstein it should be just as terrified of the monster they helped create as people like McConnell and Ryan.

  138. 138
    Citizen Alan says:


    Yeah, but the slave states also got more Congressman than they should have by virtue of the Three-Fifths Compromise.

  139. 139
    NoraLenderbee says:

    @debbie: Hey, that’s *my* slogan.

  140. 140
    J R in WV says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    I agree with you, a little. But there are two types of reporter / journalist out there. Some are as you say:

    …just jaded sociopathic courtiers straight out of Versailles for whom political decisions that affect the lives of Millions are nothing more than an amusing parlor game

    But just as many are honest hard working diggers for truth, trying to do a hard job without much support from their bosses, who are most likely to be “courtiers … out of Versailles” with no journalistic ethics, no work ethic, only see the clicks and the ad revenue. I’ve known many early in their careers, who wanted to become the courtiers in charge, didn’t know much about anything, but were certain that they were destined to run CBS or The Associated Press, which before the internet was one of the best and most important non-commercial accumulator of news in the world, now not so much.

    But I’ve also known many who didn’t want to become management, wanted to stay out there digging for stories, for the truth about how things happened, or were about to happen. Running into the flood, the hurricane, the trial of the century (which happens every 5 or 10 years…;-)… ) wherever the news is breaking. Interviewing politicians with an eye to getting them on the record when they know the true facts will contradict every word, very popular with state house reporters.

    Hard to tell where the “profession” will wind up, people are woefully misinformed about the role of reporters and how it differs from commenters and editorialists.

    Andrea Mitchell Greenspan is a fine example of the courtier type reporter, never knew a fact she won’t deny if it helps her slant. Chuck Todd, I can’t tell what he thinks he is doing, but it isn’t journalism. John Dickerson seems like a digger.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:


    He’s not going to attack another country.

    Yemen, Afghanistan.

    And he may not be the one to actually orders the attack, but the military takes its cues from its leaders. An incident could spark out of control if the ROE for confrontations change and Trump reflexively does the worst thing.

  142. 142
    cokane says:

    @Citizen Alan: Sure. But it’s *that* compromise which is the preserver of slavery.

    I mean, there’s a facile argument to be made that every aspect of the Constitution preserved slavery, since it created a state where slavery was legal. But talking about the EC as if its primary logic was a compromise with slave states v free states, is historically inaccurate.

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