Open Thread: More Notes from Today’s Boston Farce Rally

262 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Boston counterprotester just told MSNBC reporter “We are stronger together” hmmmm where have I heard that phrase before

    Probably read it in an email.

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    This may be the best fed Confederate soldier ever. In the entire history of Confederate soldiers.

  3. 3
  4. 4
    TaMara (HFG) says:

  5. 5
  6. 6
    efgoldman says:

    Even though I haven’t lived there for many years, SO proud of my home town.
    The mayor and BPD said in advance what was going to happen, and it did.
    Poor nazi snowflakes didn’t like being shouted down and fiercely outnumbered, and being left without their bang bang phalluses


  7. 7
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    I’ll stay here ’til fuckin’ Thursday.


  8. 8
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Attention, North Carolinians: You will have ONE chance to weigh in on redistricting. Check out this thread.

    The guy doesn’t know how to thread, but if you want to see the entire thread, click on the first tweet.

  9. 9
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @lamh36: “I played Richard III”

    “By Grapthar’s Hammer… what a savings”

  10. 10
    lamh36 says:

    Ok guys I have a story to share with you. Shared it on my FB page and twitter but was waiting for an OT to post here at BJ.

    So there’s this new old white lady tech (OWLT) in the Core lab. She’s got to be over 65 if she not 70. She literally started less than a month ago, so she’s in “training” now. Core lab has about 10-15 people or so at any given time M-F. The ratio of Black to White is actually about split evenly, with a small majority being white.

    So one day, OWLT was walking into work, and when she passed the one Black Lady Tech (BLT) she said something like “hey my lil monkey” I don’t know it the BLT really heard her fully, since she was kinda busy so she let it go. But then, when OWLT was leaving for lunch OWLT said “see ya later monkey”! This time the BLT heard her and she was taken aback…and she stopped OWLT and told her “excuse me…what did you call me”. OWLT said “oh…what? my lil monkey?” BLT said…yes that. Do you know how offensive that is?” OWLT said “oh, you are taking it the wrong way, it’s just a nickname, like I give my dogs!!!” BLT looked at OWLT & was looking like…

    So BLT spoke to the supervisor and told her point blank she needs to talk to OWLT and that she was NOT working with OWLT again…

    Supevisor spoke to OWLT and AGAIN OWLT says “she’s (BLT) is taking it the wrong way”. Supervisor tells OWLT, it doens’t matter if OWLT thinks BLT is taking it the wrong way.
    She needed to respect BLT’s wishes and anyone else in the future who feels offended. OWLT was taken aback that she got in trouble for it and I’m sure of course she was mad at BLT for speaking to the supervisor about it.

    Ain’t that some shit!

  11. 11
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But what of his confefes?

  12. 12
    Honus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: that confederate soldier and the woman flipping him off was in Charlottesville last Tuesday, not Boston today. He is the best, with a forage cap and assault rifle.

  13. 13
    momus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: A morbidly obese Confederate on Boston Common?!!! Must have been home schooled.

  14. 14

    With SUPERGENIUSES like these

    POLITICO has gotten much better under Grunwald’s stewardship…although Starbursts is still a total clown, and Shafer is nihilistic/lazy garbage and a computer program could do his job better.

  15. 15
    lamh36 says:

    this chick got some damn nerve…smh

    1:2 It was beautiful to see thousands of people across the U.S.A come together today to peacefully denounce bigotry, racism & anti-semitism.
    7:59 PM – Aug 19, 2017

  16. 16
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Matt McIrvin: I think he ate them. I can’t make our a name tape or anything, but that may be Private Donner.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: That’s nuts.

  18. 18
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    So I’m down behind confederate lines here, in Charleston SC for eclipse madness.

    Had Carolina BBQ for dinner, with sides of black-eyed peas and collard greens. Think I gave myself away as a Yankee when I ordered the unsweetened iced tea.

    Expedia/Hotwire are doing terrible things with booking. The hotel room I prepaid months ago was not here when I arrived because apparently they’ve been taking people’s last minute money all day and booking rooms that don’t exist. So when people like me show up late arrival, there’s nothing left.

    I’m still not sure what miracle the desk clerk pulled, but she managed to actually get us all in before having her nervous breakdown.

  19. 19

    I’m hoping that if there’s one good thing to come out of this shit show in Charlottesville, and the wider shit show now going on in Washington, it’s that maybe this ugliness has brought the fascist, racist rot out into the open in a way that Republican politicians can’t look the other way about it any longer.

    Republicans have wooed racists since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts went through. They thought they could ride these voters to election wins, year after year, and for a long time, it worked. Until this rump took over the party. Now the racists are running the show, led by the clown in the White House, and his flunkies.

    And as long as the racists behaved themselves and kept out of the news, it worked. Lately, though, they’ve been oozing out into the light, feeling boldened by Trump, a guy they rightly saw as one of them.

    At Charlottesville, though, things got out of hand, and the big secret, the open secret that so many of us have been winking and nodding at for 50 years, well, they blew it out of the water. Nobody can look away any longer. Nobody can wink and nod any longer. Maybe the Republican Party can find it within themselves to root these people out of the party and cast them back into the political outer darkness they belong in.

    I don’t know if they can do that. I don’t know if they have it within themselves, but I hope so. The country can’t afford to have one of its political parties in thrall to fascism and racism. We have to, though. This country can’t go on this way. Something has to break, either the Republican Party or the United States. I hope it’s the Republican Party. We can’t go on this way much longer. Now, thanks to Trump, maybe we won’t have to.

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Honus: Regardless of where it was, he’s none to bright:

    “It hurts my heart that people come out here and misappropriate Robert E. Lee and the Confederate flag for their personal agendas,” he said.

    The moron is carrying a modified battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not a Confederate flag.

  21. 21
    lamh36 says:

    There will be secession. But it won’t be due to race.

    We who want freedom & limited government will have no other choice but to secede.
    11:39 AM – Aug 19, 2017

  22. 22
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    There is a better version of this set to Ashokan Farewell with a guy reading lines as if a letter from KBs Civil War series.
    “Jeremy is keeping our spirits up with tales of his hot girl friend. She lives in Canada”
    “If I fall on the field of battle tel my mother I lover her dearly . . . and she should NOT look at my browser history”

    Its hilarious

  23. 23
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @lamh36: uh huh. And why would you give a human the pet name you call your dogs? And how many other coworkers got the nickname treatment?

    Even if she’s not lying about intent, there are some elements of common courtesy and professionalism missing here.

  24. 24
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: Like the freedom from having to make child support payments. And the freedom from being held to account by the courts for the failure to make child support payments. And the freedom to not be made fun of by people that have noted that you have gotten into legal trouble for failing to make child support payments.

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: Burns’ civil war series was terrible.

  26. 26
  27. 27
    Raven says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: hot ain’t it? we drove back from Edisto this morning and I’m still wore out from my nearshore trip yesterday.

  28. 28


    We who want freedom* & limited government** will have no other choice but to secede.

    *The freedom to hurt minorities.
    **No government services that help minorities.

  29. 29
    efgoldman says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Even if she’s not lying about intent, there are some elements of common courtesy and professionalism missing here.

    I assume there’s some kind of process that has to be followed to discipline the old hag.
    At Enormous Brokerage & Mutual Funds LLC, she’d get one warning and then out the door.

  30. 30
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: She can shut the hell up. Her dad condemned those very same peaceful anti-Nazi protesters in Boston as anti-police agitators.

  31. 31
    aimai says:

    @lamh36: Holy CRAP!!!!??? WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ????? This fucking world.

  32. 32
    lamh36 says:

    OMG! 30 years of Dirty Dancing! Literally my FAV movie ever.

    RIP Patrick Swayze!!!

  33. 33
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It had its moment but overall it missed several key things and was over-sympathetic to the treasonous side. I enjoyed it but not as good history

  34. 34
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    it’s just a nickname, like I give my dogs!!!


  35. 35
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: Freedom not to pay child support.

  36. 36
  37. 37
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Matt McIrvin: I see what you did there.

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve never seen it. Does it have any redeeming facet, beyond introducing the world at large to “Ashokan Farewell”?

  38. 38

    Hopefully the rallies in San Francisco and Berkeley will go the same way.

  39. 39

    @Adam L Silverman: Burns documentaries bore me to tears, they are overly long. I haven’t seen the Civil War one but the on the suffragettes put me to sleep.

  40. 40
    Inventor says:

    @lamh36:Another approach:
    “Hi Shitstain! Don’t take it the wrong way, it’s just my little nickname for people I think are shitstains.”

  41. 41

    @Miss Bianca: What is an Ashokan farewell?

  42. 42
    lamh36 says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: the other side of the story is that some of the older white techs thought it was funny, but the Black techs quickly set them straight and of course they stop smiling and giggling bout it.

    At least the younger white techs, were as outraged as the Black techs…so hey that’s a silver lining…the youths may indeed be the future

  43. 43
    lamh36 says:

    Dang… RIP D.Gregory!

    BREAKING NEWS: Legendary comedian and activist @IAmDickGregory has died. He was 84. He was a true legend and barrier breaker

  44. 44


    At Enormous Brokerage & Mutual Funds LLC, she’d get one warning and then out the door.

    Back when I was in Satan’s employ, I don’t think a new hire would get one warning for that, they be gone.

  45. 45
    khead says:

    We who want freedom & limited government will have no other choice but to secede.

    My stock response nowadays for stuff like this is “I loved Bioshock!”

  46. 46
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    And freedom from critical thinking. And the freedom to refuse to serve fags, n*ggers, and libtard pinkos of course.

  47. 47
    Adam L Silverman says:


    Literally my FAV movie ever.

    I find this hard to believe given that Idris Elba is not in Dirty Dancing.

  48. 48
  49. 49
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: It’s because he leaned heavily on Foote’s neo-Confederate garbage. Easy to read, factually dubious.

  50. 50
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Mine is: “Have fun in Somalia!”

  51. 51
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @lamh36: RIP

  52. 52

    @Adam L Silverman: Patrick Swayze is totally crush-worthy in that movie, plus he can dance. Win-win.

  53. 53
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    BEST.JOE.WALSH. TWEET. EVAH.!!!! And he comes from Illinois, the state that produced the 16th President of the North.

  54. 54
    Gemina13 says:

    @lamh36: What. The. Unholy. FUCK.

    Glad the younger techs stood up for what was right, but . . . okay, I’m Gen-X, wrong generation, but that was seriously fucked-up bullshit from OWLT. I’m glad she was set straight on it. And WTF was that about nicknaming a woman “like I do my dogs”?! I don’t think I can use the word “fuck” enough to emphasize how utterly wrong and offensive that is.

  55. 55
    efgoldman says:


    What is an Ashokan farewell?

    A folk-sounding tune written by a guy in upstate NY in 1982

  56. 56
    Gemina13 says:

    @lamh36: Only one thing to say to that: #ByeFelicia.

  57. 57

    OT: What should I take to the neighborhood potluck. I only know three of my neighbors, and that too not that well. Usually just encounter them on my runs and we exchange pleasantries. I am thinking Turkish potato salad, with red onions and lime and olive oil with a garnish of parsley and mint.

  58. 58
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    There was a similar video with images from the Bundy/Oregon ranger station takeover, but the Ashoken Farewell music was later removed for copyright infringement. The replacement music just didn’t work.

  59. 59
    sukabi says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: wow. That’s some serious stupid right there.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    Honus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: completely agree. I saw him Tuesday, shortly before the C’ville police escorted him out of what we all now call Heyerdahl Park. Later in the day a friend and I were discussing the weekend’s events and this incident came up and his comment was “I guess you have the right to protest while carrying a rifle but he might have picked a little better time”

  62. 62
    dmsilev says:

    @lamh36: Yikes. No words. I hope that the conversation that the supervisor had included some variation on “if you do this again, you’re fired”.

  63. 63
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I recall thinking that Foote was awfully sympathetic to the rebel cause.

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Ken Burns’ Civil War documentary? Don’t waste your time. If you’re willing to do hard reading – as in every page is just well sourced and cited fact after fact, read Caton’s Centennial History of the Civil War. It is hard going, but it is worth it.

    For more recent stuff, for instance on the use of insurgent tactics during the Civil War, there’s the work of my friend and former colleague Chris Keller. His stuff is excellent. And given the recent 150 year anniversary there have been excellent C-Span shows running all weekend at night about the Civil War. All the ones I’ve seen have been very good, but look for the one by my friend and former colleague Mike Neiberg. He’s primarily a WW I historian, but he gave a very interesting comparative talk at this June’s civil war conference at Gettysburg College.

    I also recommend these both by former colleagues:

  65. 65
    Ruckus says:


  66. 66
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Well it did a tongue bath on Robert E. Lee, plus gave us Nathan Bedford Forrest, a good clean image, well maybe that Fort Pillow thing a tad over done., but hey a new generations of Yahoos had a general greater than Stonewall.

  67. 67
    dmsilev says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The theme music to Ken Burns’ Civil War. The best remembered sequence, which is being called back to in that original tweet up top, is this, where the music plays in the background as a letter from a Union soldier to his wife is being read.

  68. 68

    @schrodingers_cat: Gotta have butter. j/k

    Actually, sounds pretty good.

  69. 69

    @efgoldman: Does it have anything to do with Ashoka*, who ruled over most of India (238 BC and was responsible for the spreading Buddhism in the rest of Asia.

    * He was a blood thirsty despot and conqueror before his conversion to Buddhism.

    ETA: OK, I saw that you answered my question as I was writing this comment. Thanks.

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It is obviously how the Mauryids said goodbye.//

  71. 71
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Boston counterprotester just told MSNBC reporter “We are stronger together” hmmmm where have I heard that phrase before 🤔

    Seems to me the phrase is coming up a lot. Pretty sure one, maybe two of service chiefs used it in their C-Ville inspired tweets.

  72. 72
    efgoldman says:

    Any reporting from the wrong coast? Or are those scheduled for tomorrow?

  73. 73
    lamh36 says:

    NYC law enforcement hold rally in support of Colin Kaepernick

    And of course they are getting death threats already, probably some from their fellow policemen…IJS

  74. 74
    dmsilev says:

    @Adam L Silverman: McPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom is pretty decent IMO, and isn’t too difficult a read.

  75. 75
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I never found Foote as terrible as some people. His books make it pretty clear he has no sympathy for their cause, that they were wrong and needed to lose. He does express sympathy for the foot soldiers and respect of some of the better generals (I do bristle at his embrace of Forrest) but points out their evil deeds too. I thought the books better than what was put on the series.

  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: If you had 144 of that guy you’d have gross stupidity.

  77. 77
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee:
    So Lee was just as American as Washington, yet he wasn’t fighting the United States, he was fighting the “North”? Apparently Walsh doesn’t understand that the “North” was the United States.

  78. 78
    lamh36 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Well at 10 years old…I only had eyes for Patrick Swayze…from pre-teen crush…to forever love…lol.

    Idris is my grown azz woman crush, into my old age I’m sure…lol

  79. 79
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: No, it is from an Iroquois word meaning “place of fish.”

  80. 80
  81. 81
    efgoldman says:


    Does it have anything to do with Ashoka*, who ruled over most of India (238 BC and was responsible for the spreading Buddhism in the rest of Asia.

    I dunno’, but in researching it several times for concert notes I never saw any such reference.

  82. 82

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks! Balloon Juice, learn something new everyday.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Make a balti. Get noticed.

  84. 84

    @Adam L Silverman: ha! Haven’t heard that one before.

  85. 85
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And the freedom to …

    Does he support the freedom to outlaw gays?
    How about the freedom to outlaw inter-racial marriage?
    The freedom to outlaw sex outside of marriage?
    The freedom to outlaw bikinis at the beach?

    Does he run around with the type of freedom loving groups that want to bring back the joy of lynchings?

    (no answer is required or expected)

    (oops, fixed a typo)

  86. 86
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’ve occasionally wondered that myself. It appears not–per Wikipedia it’s named after this place:

  87. 87
    TKinNC says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: This is an NC-centric comment — Proposed NCGA house districts are here –\2017%20House%20Redistricting%20Plan
    Public comment guidelines –
    I don’t think the new NCGA Senate districts are out yet but they are supposed to be available no later than Monday morning.

  88. 88
    lamh36 says:

    @dmsilev: It did. Her job was already on the line because her performance so far has been subpar, but she’s still on probation…so she has room to improve and they are allowed to keep her in that position, or decline to have her continue with employment.

  89. 89
    Keith Earle says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Sheh-bih Foote has much to answer for.

  90. 90

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s an Anglo Indian thingie right, stirfry with Indian spices? I don’t know whether my neighbors are adventurous or the New England boiled dinner types.

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Honus: I’m not a big fan of protesting armed. I’m not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a 2nd Amendment absolutist, so for me showing up to a protest open carrying isn’t protesting, it’s intimidation. Just because one can do something doesn’t mean someone should. And doing so dressed in tacticool cosplay is even dumber and more dangerous. And serves no purpose other than to intimidate and threaten. That’s not really about liberty. That’s actually about tyrannizing those that don’t agree with you.

  92. 92
    Schlemazel says:

    Battle Cry of Freedom is my recommendation for a first effort to understand the war.

    I liked Footes first volume because it laid out the case that the was was only about slavery and did so by showing how all economic claims were really only slave driven. He fully blamed the South for the war and I don’t recall any sympathy for the cause. The second and third books were hard to follow because they looked at the war day by day so they jumped around a bit.

    Caton also shows that slavery was the only cause but not in the detail Foote did

  93. 93
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Hence the ACLU decision this past week.

  94. 94
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Schlemazel: I’ve never read Foote’s stuff, and I enjoyed the Burns series overall– I watched it soon after I had read McPherson’s Battle Cry Freedom— but I do remember thinking that the way Foote talked sounded a bit Noble Cause-sympathetic, much like Sharra’s Killer Angels, which I had listened to as an audiobook around the same time. I used to kind of period binge in my reading. Now it’s the opposite, I jump all over the place.

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): He basically deserted during WW II, but I don’t think they ever prosecuted him. He was clearly a neo-Confederate.

  96. 96
    HRA says:


    It is totally disgusting! It is also sad she thinks there is nothing wrong with it.

  97. 97
    Mel says:

    @lamh36: I can’t even imagine why OWLT is still employed there after that. That woman needs to go! So glad your coworker and the supervisor called her out on it.

  98. 98
    J R in WV says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I called our hotel in western KY last night to be sure we still had a room. Yep! It didn’t sound like they were flooded with people, so far. I’m hoping that seriously rural Kentucky isn’t as popular as other places that are already hugely popular with tourism.

    Just plan to keep heading south from the Ohio River, which we will be able to see from the hotel room window…

    We tend to go to bed around 12, go to sleep around 1 am, get up 10 am or so. That would make it hard to get into totality in a timely manner. I would like to be on the road by 7 or 8. Fingers crossed!!!

  99. 99

    @HRA: She knows, she is pretending not to.

  100. 100
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And serves no purpose other than to intimidate and threaten. That’s not really about liberty. That’s actually about tyrannizing those that don’t agree with you.

    I expect we’ll see a lot of that when the Phoenix rally happens.

  101. 101
    Schlemazel says:

    Dammit, I had a post eaten by FYWP. I agree about Battle Cry of Freedom and would recommend it for anyone that wanted a very good primer on the war.

    Foote’s first volume goes into a lot of detail to show that any claim the war was not about slavery is wrong that all economic and political complaints were driven by the peculiar institution. I did not care for his style for the next two books.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Fine, be that way.

  103. 103
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Loved it!!!!!

  104. 104
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: It’s like he was designed in a lab– a lab run by Lamh’s should’ve been fired co-worker, OWLT– to be mocked by liberals, and people with opposable thumbs

    @lamh36: I’m gonna go out on a limb and say this will not be the last such incident, and that co-worker will no longer be a co-worker by Oct 1.

  105. 105
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I use it all the time. May not, however, have used it here though.

  106. 106
    NotMax says:


    Bloody Marys.


    Includes good maps which come in very handy while reading.

  107. 107
    debbie says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Photographs. Tons of very old photographs made it worthwhile for me.

  108. 108
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Did you get any guidelines? Like bring a salad or dessert or something? Or is it just bring whatever? Did they tell you if there’s going to be a main course provided?

    The Turkish potato salad sounds good. I’d bring something you know you can make fairly dependably and is okay sitting out for awhile (if it’s going to be outside).

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Here you go:

    Now go melt some eyebrows off!

  110. 110
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He isn’t?????

  111. 111
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    Bloody Marys.

    I like the way you think.

  112. 112
    zhena gogolia says:


    My favorite Patrick Swayze moment is when he danced with Chris Farley on SNL.

  113. 113
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Keith Earle:

    Not anymore….

  114. 114
    Shalimar says:

    @Inventor: I think my answer would be “like your dogs? Have you ever wondered why you have no human friends?”

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s interesting, I find the Killer Angels less lost cause/sympathetic to the Confederacy as humanizing of the principals involved. It is, perhaps, my favorite historical fiction novel about the Civil War.

  116. 116
    Schlemazel says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I went through a period where I read everything I could find on the ACW. I estimate something like 200 books. There is some horrible garbage out there including way too many that are actual treason sympathisers. Maybe that is why I don’t think Foote is so bad. Many are eminently forgettable, many rehash earlier works and add nothing. I wouldn’t do it again but there were some ponies under all that shit

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

  118. 118
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Adam L Silverman: amen. The tell: Shelby Foote.

  119. 119
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: I freed it.

  120. 120
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: She needs to stop talking. Now.

  121. 121
    Honus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you mean Bruce Catton’s trilogy, right? I’ve been trying to tell people to read that for years, but all they want is Foote. I agree with you, Foote is heavily infused with lost cause bullshit, Catton was a real historian and a great writer to boot.

  122. 122
    Shalimar says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You have used it here, 3-4 months ago.

  123. 123
    Schlemazel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I like the way you thdrink.


  124. 124
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: If you can make it through, Catton is the way to go.

  125. 125

    @Yarrow: The hostess is going to provide a chicken entree, a veggie entree, couple of side dishes. Its outside. The potato salad is pretty good, cold or at room temp. Its always been a hit. She told me that I could bring anything I want.

  126. 126
    zhena gogolia says:


    Have you seen the episode of Inspector Lynley that Elba was on? He doesn’t have a large role, but he’s really good in it.

  127. 127
    lamh36 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, I’m pretty sure she won’t be working for the company long.

    Luckily she doesn’t work in my part of the lab.

  128. 128
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    Adam, as you’re here, may I ask an off-topic question I’ve not seen you address? What do you make of that investigator’s sudden departure from Mueller’s investigation (and curious reassignment to FBI HR)?

  129. 129
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Thank-you sir

  130. 130
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: my recollection– somewhat vague, I grow old and my civil war binge was a long time ago– was that it was almost hagiographic about Lee and Longstreet, but I may be confusing the book with the Martin Sheen’s mannered performance in the film version. Also, I don’t like Sheen and that may color my recollection

  131. 131
    lamh36 says:

    @zhena gogolia: Oooh…no I have not. I’ve hear of the show, but never actually watched it.

  132. 132
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tom Levenson: Yep.

    Aren’t you on vacation?

  133. 133

    @Adam L Silverman: Literal translation of balti is bucket. Bucket food just doesn’t sound appetizing. The examples you provided look good, though. I will definitely have to try it myself.

  134. 134
    Another Scott says:

    @lamh36: I love Galaxy Quest so much. What a great movie.


  135. 135
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I agree his is a better read I am just saying Foote is not as terrible (IMHO) and that his first book does a very good job of explaining the economic and political realities of a slave society and why slavery was the only cause and the SOuth brought it on themselves. It has been like 25 years so maybe I am conflating it with other books but I remember at the time thinking it was a very good job.

    I think the faults of KBs series are his and they took what they wanted from Foote. I said at the time what was on that show was not the same tone as his book

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Honus: Yep. I’ve got the 5 volume paperback boxed set. Inherited it from my Dad. For some reason the paperback is broken down differently than the hardback.

  137. 137
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Shalimar: Not so loud. I was trying not to make him feel bad…

  138. 138

    @NotMax: Its not a brunch, its in the evening. I think of BMs as a brunch thing.

  139. 139
    Hungry Joe says:

    Why is everybody falling for this “eclipse” crapola? Like, the moon is REALLY going to block out the sun? Please. This is just astronomers cooking up crackpot theories so that they can get funding; they study for years to earn advanced degrees, then spend their whole careers putting in 60-hour weeks spewing out lies. … No, wait, that’s climate scientists. Right. Climate scientists. All the other scientists in the world are on the up-and-up, but not these guys. Because … well, just because.

  140. 140
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Whiskey sours?

  141. 141
  142. 142
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The potato salad sounds like a good plan. Goes with lots of things, safe and tastes good at any temp. Plus you are confident making it.

    Just for fun you could also bring a small bowl of one of your chutneys that you talk about. If people like it then that might give you some insight into whether they’re more adventurous eaters.

  143. 143
    NotMax says:


    Still summertime. Sangria?

    (Going non-alcoholic, gazpacho would be neat-o.)

  144. 144
    lamh36 says:

    Nice online article from Hollywood Reporter on Dick Gregor.

    Dick Gregory, Trailblazer of Stand-Up Comedy, Dies at 84 http://www.hollywoodreporter.c.....84-1004479 via @thr

    “..Gregory wrote a profound 1964 autobiography titled Nigger, which described his impoverished childhood and the racism he experienced. He wrote a note in the foreword: “Dear Momma, wherever you are, if ever you hear the word ‘nigger’ again, remember they are advertising my book.”

  145. 145
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @efgoldman: If our society survives this at all intact, we could see the beginning of a change of heart about open carry. Even if nobody gets shot, it’s the difference between a situation in which people are advocating terrible ideas, and one in which they’ve taken over the area and know they can get away with things.

    It was the one thing that Charlottesville had in common with the Dallas police shooting, too–there were people legally open-carrying at the demonstration that the shooter used for cover. In that case, the open-carriers were well-behaved, but it still complicated the search for the shooter.

    (“An armed society is a polite society”, hell.)

  146. 146
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36: Oooh…I just knew WP would moderate that comment…but it didn’t cool!

  147. 147
    randy khan says:

    @TaMara (HFG):

    The notion of a black woman bringing them to safety is just delicious.

    I’m going to guess that they’ll be telling a different story on their precious alt-right message boards tonight.

  148. 148

    @Hungry Joe: i believe there was an Atlantic article elaborating on this joke.

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): I think that the supposition that Maddow referenced last night made sense: he’s been reassigned to drudge duty at the FBI because of the DOJ Office of the Inspector General investigation into how the investigation into Secretary Clinton’s emails were handled. I think this makes the most sense, so as an Occam’s Razor explanation I’m inclined to accept it until presented with something concrete. Especially given Mueller’s reputation for probity and integrity. Having anyone with any potential conflicts, such as being even tangentially part of an IG investigation, would be used to pick his findings apart, so better to wall the team off. Moreover, given the allegations about the NY Field Office in regard to the email investigations, especially the OCT 2016 one, it is likely that Mueller’s team is investigating personnel from that field office. Comey intimated as much during his testimony the week before the President fired him, So this too would be a reason to create distance to avoid an appearance of impropriety.

    I also don’t think it is cause for tremendous concern. Mueller’s team has a lot of folks with overlapping experience that includes counterintelligence and he has access to/is now overseeing the Interagency CI task force looking into this stuff. So I’m not concerned at all.

  150. 150
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: I made myself wait to read all the comments before responding to your story, but holy fuck, that makes my blood boil. Seriously. That woman should be out of a job. I’m thinking she’s not that stupid; she just plays all innocent and gets away with it.

    Oh, and I was glad to read your explanation of your utter disloyalty to our guy, Idris!

  151. 151
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Next door neighbors of mine were an Indian family of 3 generations and grandmom stayed home and cooked. Their kitchen was on our side of their house and every day when I’d come home the smell was divine. But the taste of Indian food never matched the smell for me. Coffee is the same way, love the smell, can not drink it. Oh well there is lots of other good stuff to eat on this planet.

  152. 152
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It treated pretty much everyone with kid gloves. Longstreet came out as the tragic hero/Cassandra of the Army of Northern Virginia in the book. Lee came out looking like an old, doddering, naif.

  153. 153
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I reread it io participate in TNCs book club. It was the most fun I have had with non-fiction. People were always adding and expanding & there were some great folks there. It reminded me a lot of the ACW listserv I subscribed to in the early 90s. Plus, when the flying monkeys showed up they got spanked pretty good

  154. 154
    Honus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I agree totally. I grew up in West Virginia and was taught to shoot by WWII veterans and gun safety was drilled into me. It was a strict rule to clear your weapon as soon as you left the range or the woods and absolutely forbidden to bring a loaded weapon into the house.
    West Virginia surprisingly also had some of the strictest gun laws in the nation until recently. It was pretty much completely forbidden to carry a handgun in any circumstances. You could have a rifle or shotgun in a gun rack in a truck during the daylight hours during hunting season. After dark it had to be broken down and put in the trunk or behind the seat, out of sight.

    The people that trained me would consider that kid in the park, and the militia that roamed around charlottesville last weekend, to have shown themselves unfit to own or use firearms. I despise the whole open carry thing (and the unqualified concealed carry frenzy too) and by noting that the kid a right to do it in no way meant it as an endorsement.

  155. 155
    Hungry Joe says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Damn. For the 174th time I thought I was being original and clever, and for the 174th time …

  156. 156
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’ve never had one. They didn’t become popular till after I left Scotland. Supposedly they are very, very spicy.

  157. 157
    NotMax says:

    @Another Scott

    It’s much lower budget (a TV movie pilot for a proposed series) and decidedly cheesier but essentially the same premise from several years before Galaxy Quest which you might also like, then – The Adventures of Captain Zoom in Outer Space.

    Worth it just to watch Ron Perlman leave no piece of scenery unchewed.

  158. 158
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: You’re probably right. I didn’t try to get through Foote till after the documentary came out, so it is likely coloring my impression and evaluation of even his first volume.

  159. 159
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Hungry Joe: Obviously the moon can’t block out the sun, it’s much smaller! This is just cover for… NIBIRU.

  160. 160
    lamh36 says:

    Dick Gregory, born in my hometown of St. Louis in 1932, actually ran for president in 1968 on the Peace and Freedom Party.

  161. 161
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    Doesn’t look like anyone has linked to the hilarious “Ashokan Farewell” version of that “rebel gets the finger” picture up top. Somebody should swap it out.

  162. 162
    WaterGirl says:

    @NotMax: What’s wrong with you guys? Margaritas!

  163. 163
  164. 164
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thank you, Adam. I’m glad to hear you’re not concerned. I feel better now!

  165. 165
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    “An armed society is a polite society”,

    because everyone is scared to be anything but to those who are armed. Feudal Japan was very, very polite as a society. It was also incredibly hierarchical and those with the arms commanded the politeness of everyone else.

  166. 166
    Schlemazel says:

    I worked at NASA with a Chinese-American who did not suffer fools gladly. We had a 70 year old guy that worked with us who was the same sort of fool. The Wed before Thanksgiving he asked my friend “what do you people do your Thanksgiving”. His answer was perfect “We stir fry a turkey”

  167. 167
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Dan LamotheVerified account @ DanLamothe
    Mattis will make a trip starting tonight to Ukraine, Jordan and Turkey. Washington Post is among several news outlets not invited.

    paul mcleary‏Verified account @ paulmcleary 3h3 hours ago
    Several outlets were invited, completed visa paperwork, and then disinvited just this week. No convincing explanation why.

  168. 168
    efgoldman says:

    . @lamh36: I saw him live at the old Donnelly Memorial Theater on Mass Ave, a block down from Symphony Hall. some time in the 60s.
    My kosher grandparents, for whom English was at best their second or third language, had no idea what they were in for. I think they got the tickets as part of a series.

  169. 169
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I find, and schroedinger’s cat can forgive me if she feels the need, or, perhaps, curse my name, that a good entry way is tandoori. Not too hot. Will appeal to those who like Mediterranean or Middle Eastern food. But that’s just me.

  170. 170
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Honus: No arguments here.

  171. 171
    WaterGirl says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): That was awesome! I actually snorted out loud (how attractive) at the part about his browser history. Too funny.

  172. 172
    Another Scott says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s a great picture, but I didn’t fully appreciate it until I read the story just now.

    That photo was from Charlottesville from Tuesday – after Heather Heyer was killed and over a dozen were seriously injured on Saturday. And of course he had two guns on him at the time.

    Lara Rogers is a brave woman, and he is a stupid, stupid man.


  173. 173
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    The old West was an armed society and it was not polite. Everyone drank heavily, people ended up dead over nothing and life was cheap.

    That is why almost every frontier town had a no guns allowed policy. You went to the sheriff’s office & gave him your shootin arn which he held for you until you left town

  174. 174
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: Remember everyone in Netanyahu’s coalition government is both farther to the right than he is and actually worse than he is. As much as I’m going to have significant spilkas if he should be convicted and sent to prison, they will be tempered by the reality that whoever replaces him is actually going to range from worse to orders of magnitude worse.

  175. 175
    NotMax says:

    @Major Major Major Major

    Parody ‘astronomy lecture’ radio ad from the past.

  176. 176
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: Thanks for the link. That makes me feel really hopeful. Except for the death threats, of course. Maybe speaking out will be contagious.

  177. 177
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): I’m flattered. The other supposition that she referenced, that he was the source of the leak about the Manafort no knock warrant is also plausible. As long as Mueller is doing his thing I’m not too concerned. Everything else around what he’s doing/about what he’s doing is noise.

  178. 178
    Steeplejack (phone) says:



  179. 179
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As much as I’m going to have significant spilkas if he should be convicted and sent to prison

    I haven’t had shpilkas since my grandmother died.

  180. 180
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This has happened several times now. No one is sure if this is Mattis or the folks that came over on the transition landing team restricting access. Given that the office the President set up to vet political appointments just hosed the long time uniformed Pentagon spokesman, Colonel Steve Warren, who was encouraged to retire so he could be given one of these appointments as the civilian overseeing communication and public affairs at DOD, my guess is it’s the landing team knuckleheads.

  181. 181
  182. 182
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mel: If she worked where I worked and was on probation, she’d be out since she has few appeal rights. I’m sure she knew she was being offensive.

  183. 183
    Mnemosyne says:


    You have my full permission to tell everyone that your white friend (me) says that’s fucked up and your co-worker was totally right to complain. Adjust for workplace telling. 😂

    ETA: I guarantee you that Old White Lady’s whine will be, “But my black friend says …” so feel free to invoke me to counter that BS.

  184. 184
    SgrAstar says:

    @schrodingers_cat: SC, that potato salad sounds awesome. You’re gonna change their lives, in a good way. I don’t suppose you live in Salt Lake City….😥

  185. 185
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: My Dad’s undergraduate advisor was Professor Spilka.

  186. 186
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It’s not the heat that’s the problem, it’s the taste. Just doesn’t do it for me.
    I stayed with a friend from Jalisco, Mexico for a year and he likes hot. I had no trouble keeping up with him, including eating peppers straight. And an OH friend of mine who passed earlier this year makes me look like american cheese is too hot. But my heat tolerance was second only to him in our group of lunch eaters when I lived/worked there. So I’m sure it’s not the heat.

  187. 187
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    but . . . but . . . but . . . I watched Gunsmoke and The Rifleman and The Adventures of Wyatt Earp and that is not how it was at all! Heck the Cartwrights didn’t even carry guns most of the time

  188. 188
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Truly hilarious.

  189. 189
    sukabi says:

    @Shalimar: that’s one way to go…or “IDK. How’s my old racist biddy?”

  190. 190
    ArchTeryx says:

    @lamh36: I used to use a Polish proverb that goes, simply ‘not my circus, not my monkeys’. It’s not racial at all, but I do not use it around AAs (or just abbreviate it, ‘not my circus’) for just this reason. I used it *accidentally* around a black co-worker once and she thought I was talking about her. Let’s just say my apology was instant; I explained the source of it and promised not to use it again. And I didn’t.

    Some people need hard learnin’ to find the clue. Your old white lady sounds like one of them.

  191. 191
    burnspbesq says:


    We who want freedom & limited government will have no other choice but to secede

    They can have the part of California north and east of Mt. Shasta to resettle in. It’s beautiful and empty and has no economy to speak of. There will be famine and hypothermia every winter.

  192. 192
    NotMax says:


    Have Gun, Will Travel.

  193. 193
    efgoldman says:

    The schaden it continues to freude.

    Some of the biggest-named charities in America walked away from President Trump this week. The exits continued into the weekend, making eight cancellations.
    On Saturday, the Palm Beach Preservation Foundation became the latest Trump customer to put its foot down.
    “Given the current environment surrounding Mar-a-Lago, we have made the decision to move our annual dinner dance,” the foundation said via Twitter.

  194. 194
    Timurid says:

    So today at fencing two people started talking politics, and they went on to repeat every Trump/pro-Trump talking point from the last week… “both sides” “we’re losing our rights” “they’re destroying history” “the leftists are so violent!” After a bit of this I couldn’t stop myself from responding. I asked them how many people Antifa have killed in our city recently. “Uh… none?” Then I asked them how many people white supremacist terrorists have killed in our city recently. We live in Lafayette, LA. “But that guy was mentally ill!”

    My fencing club is pretty much 100% white southerners, aside from me and my Yankee co-worker (who got me started on fencing). They’re all nice people and they’re all my enemies (even if I can avoid thinking about it most days). They’ll be my buddies up until the day I’m taken away, then they’ll sigh and talk about how I was one of the good ones. This fucking place is full of pod people (90%+ white vote for Trump) who are literally cheering for the side that attacked their city two years ago and killed people. White people even. But what do I do? The only way to avoid hateful fucks is to never leave my home and my workplace (with all the other lefty academics).

    I am so pissed right now. Not just at this city full of racist fuck buckets but at myself, for not being good enough at my job to get out of this place.

    Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

  195. 195
    Gemina13 says:

    @lamh36: I saw that. He was one of my mother’s favorite comedians. I posted a bit about this on my FB page that I’ll C & P here:

    Gregory was also the first radical comic I was introduced to, thanks to my mother. Mom loved his stuff, and read his autobiography, titled (bluntly), “Nigger.” She told me a joke that Gregory used to include in his routines, which still makes me laugh:

    “So I went into this little diner [in Mississippi, during the ’60s] and sat down. The waitress came over and said, ‘We don’t serve colored folk here.’ I said, ‘That’s all right, I don’t eat colored folk. Just bring me a whole fried chicken.’

    “As the waitress left, these three brothers – you know them, Ku, Klux, and Klan – came over to my booth, looked down at me, and said, ‘Boy, you just remember this. Anything you do to that chicken, we’re gonna do to you.’ And then they sat down. So the waitress comes back with my chicken. I put my napkin in my lap and pick up my knife and fork. And those three brothers say again, ‘You heard what we said, boy. Anything you do to that chicken, we’re gonna do to you.’ So I put down my knife and fork, picked up that chicken, and kissed it.”

    Gregory was raised by his mother; his father was mostly out of his life. She died when he was a young man, exhausted by overwork and bad health. The end of his autobiography, which comes shortly after a recounting of the Birmingham church building that killed four little girls, is a heartfelt cry out to her:

    “You didn’t die a slave for nothing, Momma. You brought us up. You and all those Negro mothers who gave their kids the strength to go on, to take that thimble to the well while the whites were taking buckets. Those of us who weren’t destroyed got stronger, got calluses on our souls. And now we’re ready to change a system, a system where a white man can destroy a black man with a single word. Nigger.

    “When we’re through, Momma, there won’t be any niggers any more.”

    RIP, Mr. Gregory.

  196. 196
    Schlemazel says:

    Dang! I had forgotten that one.

  197. 197
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: Okay. Again tandoori mixed grill is going to be very similar to the kebabs and grilled lamb and chicken of Levantine food in texture and flavor. Part of that is the oven – the tandoor. The word is almost protolinguistic. These types of clay (earth) ovens, with similar names (tanur, tanurah, etc) exist from east Africa through the Middle East and Central Asia into SE Asia.

  198. 198
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    but . . . but . . . but . . . I watched Gunsmoke and The Rifleman and The Adventures of Wyatt Earp and that is not how it was at all! Heck the Cartwrights didn’t even carry guns most of the time

    but Barbara Stanwyck could shoot a hole in a quarter

  199. 199
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Schlemazel: It is what it is.

  200. 200
    lamh36 says:

    Alright I’m off to bed, got weekend work again tmrw

    Good night

  201. 201
    The Pale Scot says:

    so Open Thread:

    Spot the future Rethuglicans


  202. 202
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @ArchTeryx: I have heard that before. As well as variants along the lines of “not my organ, not my monkey”. And the less problematic: “not my circus, not my elephants”.

  203. 203
    Another Scott says:

    @NotMax: Neat. I’ll see if I can dig up a copy of it somewhere (there is a chopped up version on YouTube). Thanks!


  204. 204
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Timurid: What’s your weapon? I am considering taking it up again and moving to epee.

  205. 205
    chris says:

    @Hungry Joe: Have a look at the flat earth Youtubers are saying. It’s wonderful.

  206. 206
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Wait until he sues for breach of contract.

  207. 207
    Timurid says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    At least I get to stab these jerks.

  208. 208
    WaterGirl says:

    @Schlemazel: Is that the one with the song Paladin, Paladin, something something about his name where do you roam?

  209. 209
    Mike in NC says:

    File the Ken Burns documentary series on the US Civil War under “both side do it”.

  210. 210
    Ruckus says:

    I live in blue CA and we have redneck white supremacists. And just a bit farther south Darrel Issa. But I repeat myself. Where I work we have an asshole who on Nov 9 was thanking everyone for their vote, that they elected a winner. Assholes are everywhere. Everyone has one, some just wear theirs upon their shoulders and put food into it. But what comes out is still shit.

  211. 211
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: seems like “Not my circus, not my clowns” would work, too.

  212. 212
    Schlemazel says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Never watched Big Valley. I assume it was pretty much like all the other cowboy shows?

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Timurid: Stab in painful places; it all counts.

  214. 214
    Honus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: there’s two different trilogies, the Army of the Potomac trilogy (written in the early 1950s I think) which ends with the incomparable Stillness at Appomattox and the Centennial Trilogy, written of ourse in the early 1960s. I read them years ago and get them mixed up in my mind now, but one of my favorite parts is Cattons rendition of jubal early and the VI Corps facing off in DC.

  215. 215
    Another Scott says:

    @Timurid: You did well. Hang in there.

    When the time is right, you’ll know.

    Best of luck.


  216. 216
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yeah, I know, but I’m mightily offended at his attitude.

  217. 217
  218. 218
  219. 219
    WaterGirl says:

    @Schlemazel: I don’t recall all the others having a blond, hot sister.

  220. 220
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: I know! I’m thinking if you’re the head of the Jewish state that was created after millions of people were slaughtered, there’s nothing that would be more important than standing up against Nazis. Unless you’re Netten-Yahoo, who cares more about power than anything else.

  221. 221
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Wait until he sues for breach of contract.

    I expect his publicity hound lawyers will do everything they can to avoid discovery. Bad enough Mueller is digging around the family connections and finances.

  222. 222
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Honus: Yep. I’ve got a special release of the Centennial History of the Civil War. It is a boxed set with five volumes in paperback. I don’t have it handy, it’s in storage with 99% of the rest of my stuff, but I think they either added two books from the earlier series or broke the three volumes into five for this set. Not sure where Dad got it. He may have bought it at the Gettysburg battlefield gift shop. So it may have been a special release for the Civil War battlefield parks. I know that’s where he bough Killer Angels.

  223. 223
    Ruckus says:

    There are a number of people who shaped who I am, especially as I was growing up. That a great percentage of them are black has been a wonderful experience in this life, something that no one can take away from me. That some of them I’ve never met but they wrote wonderful things about life like Dick Gregory did is as encouraging. Most of the white people just mouthed homilies about church, mom and apple pie. None of which meant anywhere near as much.

  224. 224
    Ken says:


    “Given the current environment surrounding Mar-a-Lago, we have made the decision to move our annual dinner dance,”

    The NOAA hurricane season forecast aside, I don’t think there’s been much bad publicity about Mar-a-Lago. So is this their polite way of saying “Trump is toxic”?

  225. 225
    Gretchen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I love all potato salads. Yours sounds terrific. Go for it.

  226. 226
    sukabi says:

    @Ken: yes.

  227. 227
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: @WaterGirl: Israeli politics is not for the faint of heart. Nor is Israeli society free of some of the worst stereotypes and prejudices that a state and society founded largely by refugees fleeing persecution in Europe combined with those who failed to get out and survived the Holocaust could create.

    As my undergraduate advisor and polisci professor used to say: “when you treat a group of people despotically, once they get free and set up their own societies and states they tend to establish despotisms”.

  228. 228
    WaterGirl says:


    They’ll be my buddies up until the day I’m taken away, then they’ll sigh and talk about how I was one of the good ones.

    That’s the third time in the past 2 days that I’ve seen that sort of reference to being one of the good ones. Oh, right, the second time was our own whose FRIEND actually said that to her. I’m pretty sure that if you didn’t actually smack someone for that attitude, you’re doing great.

  229. 229
    Gemina13 says:

    @Honus: I agree with you about Catton. I had a 7th-grade teacher hand me “This Hallowed Ground” and say, “You’re going to enjoy this.” I read about my grade level, but that book was a trial – still, it was worth it. It left me shell-shocked in a way nothing has until I saw Schindler’s List. My brother owns the book and Catton’s Centennial History, which is an excellent piece and just as emotionally and factually hard-hitting.

  230. 230
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Contempt of Commander in Chief? Defamation of presidential character? Alienation of presidential administration affection?

  231. 231
    Ruckus says:

    Have to agree with @sukabi: Yes. The Palm Beach whatever association will not have an overwhelming number of democrats I’d imagine, so this is double plus good. Also a double plus stab at the orange duffus because as you implied there really is no other reason to change locations. And he is very fucking toxic. And getting worse by the day.

  232. 232
    mskitty says:

    Just FYI, y’all, “an armed society is a polite society” is originally from a science fiction book written by R.A. Heinlein, often considered a libertarian. FICTIONAL. Not a description of reality – except as noted above in feudal Japan, and probably in every other militarized hierarchical society. I bet Sparta was pretty polite.

  233. 233
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m thinking more along the lines of “You don’t cancel Trump, he cancels you.” I hope the cumulative public humiliation causes him to dissolve in shame.

  234. 234
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gemina13: It took me three or four tries over the years and I can crank through a hundred pages an hour when I’m into what I’m reading. I finally got through the whole thing when I was 38-39. I was on temporary duty, and therefore traveling a lot, for almost 13 months straight when I got back from Iraq. This is before tablets, so I read it on the plane and during down time in the hotels I was staying at.

  235. 235
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    How sadly prophetic. I can’t stand what Israel has turned into. If I were speaking to my family, I’m sure we’d have some pretty vicious arguments over this.

  236. 236
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mskitty: Unless one was a Helot or a slave.

  237. 237
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: It is what it is. It didn’t happen by accident. And there’s been a fair amount of enabling that was done by both Jewish Americans, non-Jewish Americans, and the US government.

  238. 238
    NotMax says:


    As Michael Landon quipped one time when Johnny Carson asked him what four men living together did on that ranch in Bonanza during the long, cold winters, “Thank God for Hop Sing!”

  239. 239
    Lyrebird says:


    BLT said…yes that. Do you know how offensive that is?” OWLT said “oh, you are taking it the wrong way, it’s just a nickname, like I give my dogs!!!”

    Are you absolutely sure OWLT is not Sascha Baron-Cohen in drag doing some of his “how offensive can I be before people get that I’m just doing performance art” things? Positive? ‘Cause holy moly…

    Glad to hear supervisor stood up for BLT.

  240. 240
    WaterGirl says:

    @NotMax: I laughed and then thought, should I be laughing at that?

    But one or another of the brothers, and even Pa, would have a lady friend come into their lives. Sadly, when that happened, you knew she would be dead before the end of the episode. Kind of like the red shirt guys in Star Trek.

  241. 241
    Honus says:

    @WaterGirl: have gun, will travel reads the card of a man
    A knight without armor in savage land
    His fast gun for hire heeds the calling wind
    A soldier of of fortune is the man called Paladin
    Paladin Paladin where do you roam?
    Paladin Paladin, far far from home

  242. 242
    WaterGirl says:

    @Honus: Thanks for that. After seeing the lyrics I googled so I could listen to the song. Man, that was one slow-moving song!

  243. 243
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @NotMax: Ever see the movie Tinmen?
    Sam: You know when I saw ‘Bonanza’ the other day, something occurred to me.
    Ernest Tilley: Eh?
    Sam: Ya got these four guys living on the Ponderosa and ya never hear them say anything about wanting to get laid.
    Ernest Tilley: Huh.
    Sam: I mean ya never hear Hoss say to Little Joe, “I had such a hard-on when I woke up this morning.”
    Ernest Tilley: No, no, no…
    Sam: They don’t talk about broads – nothing. Ya never hear Little Joe say, “Hey, Hoss, I went to Virginia City and I saw a girl with the greatest ass I’ve ever seen in my life.” They just walk around the Ponderosa: “Yes, Pa, where’s Little Joe?” Nothin’ about broads. I don’t think I’m being too picky. But, if at least once, they talked about getting horny. I don’t care if you live on the Ponderosa or right here in Baltimore, guys talk about getting laid. I’m beginning to think that show doesn’t have too much realism.

  244. 244
  245. 245
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yeah, if one’s immediate workplace response to That’s offensive isn’t OMG, I didn’t mean it that way, but I promise not to say it again, then one is an asshole.

  246. 246
    Chitown Kev says:

    @lamh36: Did she really?

  247. 247
    Miss Bianca says:

    @lamh36: I still can’t freakin’ wrap my head around this story, btw. I can’t even find the words to describe my reactions.

  248. 248
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Cool. Since it seems that 150 years later we still haven’t entirely put the Civil War *or* Reconstruction behind us, it seems really relevant to revisit right now.

  249. 249
    Honus says:

    @WaterGirl: And it’s so cool that the singer is named Johnny Western.

    He travels on to wherever he must
    A chess knight of silver is his badge of trust
    There are campfire legends that the plainsmen spin
    Of the man with gun…
    Of the man called paladin

  250. 250
    JAFD says:

    First; Would like to mention Fletcher Pratt’s _A Short History of The Civil War_. This is the 1963 edition – a retitling and revision of his 1935 work, _Ordeal by Fire_. I won’t say it’s enlightened on racial equality, but The Guy Could Write.

    It’s available electronically on 14-day loan at

    IMHO, is a one-volume history to be matched with Catton & MacPherson’s. Possibly most interesting facet is the areas that the authors considered worth covering at the time they wrote, and what they thought “the lessons of history” were.

    If you’ve read it, or other of Mr. Pratt’s works, your thoughts are invited.

    Second; There’s a thread at The Miniatures Page – the online omnibus for Grown Ups Who Still Play With Toy Soldiers – “The Ten Books to read on the ACW” – you might find interesting, at

  251. 251
    David Evans says:

    @mskitty, the Heinlein book is Beyond This Horizon. It impressed me by being the first to make plausible that a couple could choose the best combination of their genes for their children. That’s a benign form of genetic engineering that could eliminate many hereditary diseases without (hopefully) too many religious objections. And it was written in 1942! Heinlein threw out good and bad ideas in all directions, and I didn’t take the “armed society” too seriously.

  252. 252
    Just one more canuck says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: @lamh36: who gives a nickname to someone they just met?

  253. 253
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Funny, when I mentioned Catton’s trilogy last year on here, I was told that it wasn’t even top tier. Wonder what the complainer thought of Foote.

  254. 254
    jefft452 says:

    @Schlemazel: Barbara Stanwyck was in it
    That and that alone made it several orders of magnitude better than all the other cowboy shows

  255. 255
    Tenar Arha says:

    @lamh36: I got family in NYC & we chat about how NYC society works occasionally. SWTG I think Ivanka still hopes that she’ll be able to get her social standing back in NYC after everyone goes to jail around her. That standing was gone long ago, but Charlottesville will make her and her extended family toxic at all the levels where she was accepted before. Neither charity, celebrity, or notoriety will prevent the genteel shunning that she will experience for the rest of her life. We can only hope she’s going to be stuck with the unfashionable & gauche levels in NYC for the rest of her life, just like her father before her.

  256. 256
    Tenar Arha says:

    @WaterGirl: My mother used to remind me that just because you survived multiple atrocities and attacks, didn’t make you virtuous, just made you tougher and perhaps even meaner.

    Later, I also realized that accepting the support of groups that could become dangerous to the diaspora is not new in Jewish history. To get support for Palestine, Brandeis accepted the support of every one of the Christian eschatological sects of his day. Still to this day, the most fervent gentile support for Israel is the support of people who look to the return of Jewish people as the fulfillment of end-times prophesies.

    ETA More than half of the time I think they agitate for more settlements simply to bring “the endtimes” closer.

  257. 257
    Booger says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Have you checked the Urban Dictionary yet?

  258. 258
    Annie says:


    Agree with you about Foote. I’ve been reading history for years and he was the first author I ever read who explained military and battle tactics so that I could understand them. He also had a great deal of respect for Ulysses S. Grant

  259. 259
  260. 260
    Ithink says:

    @Tenar Arha:
    You summed this issue up amazingly!

  261. 261
  262. 262

Comments are closed.