But, But, Javanka

The president of Congregation Beth Israel, Charlottesville:

On Saturday morning, I stood outside our synagogue with the armed security guard we hired after the police department refused to provide us with an officer during morning services. (Even the police department’s limited promise of an observer near our building was not kept — and note, we did not ask for protection of our property, only our people as they worshipped).

Forty congregants were inside. Here’s what I witnessed during that time.

For half an hour, three men dressed in fatigues and armed with semi-automatic rifles stood across the street from the temple. Had they tried to enter, I don’t know what I could have done to stop them, but I couldn’t take my eyes off them, either. Perhaps the presence of our armed guard deterred them. Perhaps their presence was just a coincidence, and I’m paranoid. I don’t know.

Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, “There’s the synagogue!” followed by chants of “Seig Heil” and other anti-Semitic language. Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols.
[…]
When services ended, my heart broke as I advised congregants that it would be safer to leave the temple through the back entrance rather than through the front, and to please go in groups.
[…]
Soon, we learned that Nazi websites had posted a call to burn our synagogue. I sat with one of our rabbis and wondered whether we should go back to the temple to protect the building. What could I do if I were there? Fortunately, it was just talk – but we had already deemed such an attack within the realm of possibilities, taking the precautionary step of removing our Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the premises.






174 replies
  1. 1
    Bobby Thomson says:

    The Charlottesville cops have to be considered accomplices at this point. They know Jeff Sessions won’t be sending in the Feds.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    But, some of them were ‘nice guys’, says Dolt45.
    Thank you for spreading the word about what went down in Charlottesville.
    He was absolutely disgusting 😠😠😠 yesterday in that farce of a press conference.

  3. 3
    zhena gogolia says:

    @rikyrah:

    I’m praying for you and your sister.

    This post is making me physically ill this morning. How have we let this happen?

  4. 4
    Baud says:

    Unless Trump owns the synagogue, he don’t care.

  5. 5
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    Words fail me😥😡

    Please know that all of you are in my thoughts.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia: I blame Democratic hubris.

  7. 7
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Fortunately, it was just talk – but we had already deemed such an attack within the realm of possibilities, taking the precautionary step of removing our Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the premises.

    Not an impossible occurrence in 2017 America unfortunately

  8. 8
    sherparick says:

    America under Donald Trump. Which of course is 40 years of the Conservative Movement spouting one lie after another after they decided to link laissez-faire Capitalism to White Supremacy since White Supremacy was where the votes were.

  9. 9
    Hal says:

    All those open carry laws sure were a good idea. Nothing bad could possibly happen between open carry and the Nazi sympathizer in chief.

  10. 10
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Hal: Really. The open carry laws were always a bad idea but it does allow for armed thugs to intimidate and menace opponents with the threat of shooting death. Thanks NRA and GOP.

  11. 11
    Fester Addams says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Next question, will the Virginia National Guard obey the governor of that state?

  12. 12
    ArchTeryx says:

    Exhibit #58 to why I Don’t Trust Cops just because they wear a badge and a uniform. And university cops, with rare exceptions, tend to be some of the worst. I dealt with them enough years, and I’m a white guy who spent a decade as a graduate student (so didn’t get their worst abuses larded onto my own head).

    It’s a crying shame that the only thing that saved that synagoge was that most of these cosplayers are all talk, no action. Of course, as Charlottesville demonstrated all too well, all it takes is one.

  13. 13
    Baud says:

    WaPo

    “No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion … People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love … For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite,” Obama said, quoting former South African president Nelson Mandela in tweets.

    The first tweet, which shows a picture of Obama smiling at four children, has been retweeted more than 1.1 million times and liked 2.723 million times as of Tuesday evening.

    The message became the most liked tweet of all time, surpassing Ariana Grande’s response to the deadly terrorist attack after her concert in Manchester. It also ranks No. 7 among the most retweeted tweets according to Favstar, a tweet tracking site.

  14. 14
    different-church-lady says:

    “But… but we thought he’d stop acting like a white nationalist once he gained our vote by appealing to our white nationalist sympathies!”

  15. 15
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Fester Addams: If they don’t and there’s no countermanding order, then we’re into full-on coup territory. The Alabama National Guard obeyed Ike when he sent them to Little Rock, and they were sympathetic toward the rioters a whole lot more then toward the kids trying to go to school there.

    If the Virginia governor issues orders and Trump countermands them, on the other hand, then he’s the CoC and they have to obey him or again, it’d be a full on military coup. We have to face up to the fact we elected a Nazi as our President before they can do anything about it.

  16. 16
    Princess says:

    Jared and Ivanka are no-hopers.

    But Steven Mnuchin and Gary Cohn should resign. Shanda fur die goyim.

  17. 17
    celticdragonchick says:

    If the Nazi marchers come for the synagogue in my neighborhood in Greensboro…I’ll be open carrying in defense of it.

    I’m one of the armed liberals you sometimes hear about…

  18. 18
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Shocking how the corporate media did Nazi this coming.

  19. 19
    ArchTeryx says:

    @celticdragonchick: Good for you. I used to be, but my life got too unstable to safely have a gun around. Nowadays all I can do is cheer from the sidelines. About time these wankers found out they aren’t the only armed people around.

  20. 20
    Ohio Mom says:

    Living in Cincinnati as I do, I am surrounded by fellow Jews who are Republicans and worse — a Jewish family helped start our local Tea Party.

    For the past few days I’ve been wondering how they are processing all of this. Keeping the cognitive dissonance suppressed must be very difficult.

  21. 21

    Jesus H. Tap dancing Christ. What the fuck is happening to this country? It’s time for the “reasonable” Republicans to get this shitbag out of office.

  22. 22
    clay says:

    @ArchTeryx: I’m trying to decide if a full-on military coup would be worse than a continuing Trump presidency.

    Still thinkin’ about it…

  23. 23
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Ohio Mom: Do you think they can process the dissonance or is denial so powerful that they don’t have to?

  24. 24
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    This is why people wanted open carry laws. It’s why we have to roll them back.

  25. 25
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    As to Javanka, they were conveniently on vacation again, but managed a leak saying that they had been trying to move Dad away from the dark side.

  26. 26
    debit says:

    Hey, remember that one time Obama said it was not cool that cops arrested a black guy for entering his own home and then had to apologize to all cops everywhere? I wonder what changed.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    ALT-LEFT! ALT-LEFT!

  28. 28
    Fester Addams says:

    @ArchTeryx: I’m reading Eisenhower had to send the 101st Airborne Division in to make sure his federalizing of the Arkansas National Guard actually happened. As you say, there’ll be no help from Washington this time.

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): They will rid us of the meddlesome asshole, as soon as they repeal health care and pass tax cuts.
    That’s why Gary Cohn is staying.

  30. 30
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  31. 31
    The Nameless One says:

    @clay: Break that seal and is it possible to go back?

  32. 32
    NonyNony says:

    @Ohio Mom: Likely they just keep saying “Antifa is worse.” Over and over until they start to believe it.

  33. 33
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Since I woke early, I put on the local news at 4:30. One person called the statements repugnant. They then mentioned that alt-left was nothing more than a term started on the alt-right.

  34. 34
    sherparick says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I will have to say a little bit in the defense of the Charlottesville and its police. This is not a large city and this is not a large police department, only 114 officers. Albemarle County’s Sherriff’s office and the UVA security police can augment them, and I understand Governor McAullife deployed a force of State Troopers to assist. Further, they were wrapped on the fingers by a Federal Judge for restricting Alt-right demonstrators and counter-protesters in July at the first rally in Emancipation Park. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/virginia/articles/2017-07-18/groups-criticize-militaristic-police-response-at-protest So they decided this time to take a passive approach and use the first fist fight to erupt as the justification to revoke the permits and move in and clear the Park and downtown Charlottesvile of what they thought would be only a few hundred demonstrators. Instead, there were thousands, many of them armed up.

    Basically, I think both the ACLU and the police were shocked by how many Alt-righters showed up this weekend. https://acluva.org/20108/aclu-of-virginia-response-to-governors-allegations-that-aclu-is-responsible-for-violence-in-charlottesville/

    and http://www.starexponent.com/ne.....335a8.html

    I am sure the police made mistakes here (were all the officers present for duty and on overtime? How many State Troopers were deployed? Were National Guard activated and on stand-by to be deployed if the situation got out of control?

  35. 35
    Baud says:

    @JPL: GMA was pretty good this morning on that also.

  36. 36
    MJS says:

    I live and work in a city with a not-insignificant crime problem. Never thought I’d ever buy a gun. Now I’m seriously considering it. Seems the prudent thing to do, if Nazis and KKK goons are going to be prevalent now.

  37. 37
    trnc says:

    @Baud: I really hope someone asks DT how he feels about Obama successfully using twitter to speak directly to the people and winding up with the most liked tweet in history.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: Alt-Right = alternate right. Alt-Left = 0. There is no alternate left, there is a spectrum of leftists, while I disagree with many there are very few I disown.

  39. 39
    trnc says:

    @Baud:

    GMA was pretty good this morning on that also.

    My world is now officially upside down.

  40. 40
  41. 41
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    We started using alt-left to derisively describe folks who wanted Dems to be silent on social issues. But since Trump has appropriated the term, we should stop.

  42. 42
    MJS says:

    I’d really like to see a basic cable station like TNT run “Inglorious Basterds” non-stop this weekend. Yes, it loses something with the editing, but it would reach a wider audience than HBO or Showtime

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud:

    We started using alt-left to derisively describe folks who wanted Dems to be silent on social issues.

    I have to ask, why? That’s just cowardly centrist bullshit.

  44. 44
    Gravenstone says:

    Jesus fuck … I really have no other words.

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Why what? Use a derisive term. Because they deserve it.

  46. 46
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    Deray interviewed Gov. McAuliffe on his podcast Pod Save the People. Apparently they found weapons caches placed around the city. Terrorists struck Charlottesville.

    I also feel the need to rant a bit about Gen. Kelly and all the people who foolishly put their hopes on him to do I don’t even know what with Dolt 45. Kelly showed us who he is by the way ICE was so viciously rounding up parents at soccer games and school pick up areas. Kelly’s short time as Secretary of Homeland Security was a disgrace and I cannot believe people think he must be horrified or upset by trump’s abhorrent views. Frankly I’ve been hoping this whole time he wouldn’t succeed in bringing “order” to the trump administration. Fuck that make the trains run on time BS. He hasn’t given me a single reason to think he isn’t completely on board with the worst trump wants to do.

  47. 47
    JPL says:

    CBS is running a John Lewis segment again, and I’m in tears.

  48. 48
    Jeffro says:

    Aw man, the “Total Eclipse of the Heart” thread died before I could add this gem: Storm Large sings “Total Eclipse of the Heart/More Than a Feeling” plus cussing

    Ok that’s just clowning around…but her “Angels In Gas Stations” IS pretty amazing. Happy Wednesday, everyone!

    Bonus: looks like Baltimore has the right idea – take ’em down in the dead of night

  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud:

    Why what?

    To repeat myself:

    That’s just cowardly centrist bullshit.

    There is nothing ‘left’ about it.

  50. 50
    clay says:

    @JPL: Yeah, people need to remember that “alt-right” was a term that they coined themselves to paper over the racism and Nazi-ism. “Alt-left” is nothing but a phantom that exists in Sean Hannity’s fevered imagination.

    And even though “alt-right” is a self-defined term that has been known for several years, Trump was still acting like they don’t exist yesterday:

    Reporter: Senator McCain said that the alt-right is behind these attacks, and he linked that same group to those who perpetrated the attack in Charlottesville.

    Trump: Well, I don’t know. I can’t tell you. I’m sure Senator McCain must know what he’s talking about. But when you say the alt-right…uh, define alt-right to me. You define it. Go ahead.

    [Cross talk. Reporters shout questions.]

    Trump: No, define it for me. Come on, let’s go.

  51. 51
    JPL says:

    What’s so disheartening is no one will walk away from their cozy job in the West Wing. They sold their souls.

  52. 52
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Baud:

    Unless Trump owns the synagogue, he don’t care.

    It really is that simple and stupid with Trump.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Well I disagree. But it’s moot now since Trump has appropriated the term.

  54. 54
    Jeffro says:

    Had to LOL at this, from J-Rubs late yesterday:

    (talking about Trumpov’s rant yesterday)

    to top it off, he equated Robert E. Lee, who waged war against the United States and fought to continue enslavement of fellow-human beings, with George Washington. Plainly, the New York education system, Fordham University and Wharton School of Business have failed Trump, promoting him without ensuring that he possessed basic reasoning skills and a grasp of American history. But in these institutions’ defense, he is unteachable, we have learned.

  55. 55
    Jeffro says:

    @clay: Plus, “alt-left” implies there are progressives as violent and hateful as the alt-right. It’s lazy shorthand at best; more false equivalence and cover for the Nazis at worst.

  56. 56
    Seth Owen says:

    @ArchTeryx: Trump is only Cinc of the NG if he federalizes them like Ike did.

  57. 57
    JMG says:

    Trump to hold rally in Phoenix. No doubt it’s where he’ll pardon Arpaio.

  58. 58
    Another Scott says:

    @sherparick: Thank you.

    I understand the anger, but people need to not jump to conclusions. McAuliffe is a good guy and is on our side. He’s worked hard to tighten up gun rules where he can.
    Charlottesville authorities don’t want Nazis marching through town and didn’t want any violence. They’re not (somehow) supporting Nazis.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  59. 59
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I don’t know. I steer clear of them. The resident right wing Jewish nut at my husband’s workplace hasn’t gone near the subject (yet). He is my current barometer.

  60. 60
    Jeffro says:

    Great read today at TPM: “The House Is On Fire: Accepting The Truth of the Trump Revolution

    Re: Trumpov’s racist rant yesterday and WH staffers’ shocked reaction that he ‘expressed things in public that he typically only says in private’…

    It is worth noting this other passage in the piece: “Mr. Trump prides himself on an unapologetic style he learned from his father, Fred Trump, a New York City housing developer, and Roy Cohn, a combative lawyer who served as an aide to Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s.” Quite true. One might also add though that both men, from profoundly different backgrounds and life experiences, were dyed-in-the-wool racists.

    The earlier passage from the Times tells us explicitly what should be clear from watching the consistency of Trump’s public actions. What we saw today is the real Trump. Most of White House ‘comms’ appears to be a matter of keeping this real Trump in check or at least served up in palatable morsels rather than all at once.

    “A voluble articulation of opinions that the president had long expressed in private.”

    We can infer what stands behind a person’s public statements if we’ve seen them enough, under different pressures and in different contexts. Trump’s repeated expressions of sympathy for racist activists, refusals to denounce racist activists, coddling and appointments of racist activists can only really mean one thing: that he instinctively sympathizes with them and indeed is one. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 80 million times, I need to seriously consider what the fuck is wrong with me.

  61. 61
    Boatboy_srq says:

    @Bobby Thomson: And yet they weren’t sufficiently supportive of the fascists to make them happy, either. There are a number of wingnuts complaining that the cops didn’t step in and protect THEM during the weekend’s events.

  62. 62
    Ohio Mom says:

    @sherparick: I didn’t know that. Clearly the Nazis/White Nationalists planned this protest in light of the success of their previous protest — they knew the police were weak. That was part of their calculus.

  63. 63
    TriassicSands says:

    @Jeffro:

    Yes, or at high noon, but take them down.

    You’re right, as was Baltimore, just do it, quickly, quietly and completely. That way the fascists can mourn the loss if they’re dumb enough, but they don’t have a chance to create a preemptive ruckus. Every city and town should follow this model. However, I guess we can assume there are plenty of racist town/city councils in the South who don’t want to remove their hallowed heritage. Good people everywhere need to formulate strategies to pressure reluctant towns and cities. I imagine there will be more of a problem at the town level.

    Citizens who choose to act when towns won’t should have funding provided for any legal costs they incur. I’d hope, after what has happened in Durham, that people will be more discrete from now on.

  64. 64
    sherparick says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Great column in the Guardian about how Republicans and the Right-Wing Infotainment Complex has made Nazism a thing again. When I read this I particularly thought of Bret Stephens and the NY Times.

    “…But [Nigel] Farage is the easy target. Across the western world a media and political elite scapegoats migrants for the crimes of the powerful, portrays Muslims as a homogeneous violent fifth column, and demonises opponents as unpatriotic saboteurs and internal enemies. Trump’s initial refusal to attribute blame to racists and fascists after a far-right terrorist attack – his subsequent coerced denunciation is worthless, and was followed by his retweet of a leading “alt-rightist” – underlines why those marching in Charlottesville see him as their leader.

    But Trump’s campaign of bigotry, taken as a licence to hate by every racist and fascist, was no grubby disruption of a tolerant American consensus. “Obama answers to the Qur’an before the constitution,” declared Fox News contributors. The US constitution would be replaced with the Qur’an, they announced. Muslims would be banned from serving in high office, declared Herman Cain, a Republican candidate for the presidential nomination, a few years ago. “Sharia is a mortal threat to the survival of freedom in the United States,” was the pronouncement of Newt Gingrich, the Republican ex-speaker of the House of Representatives. Muslims were the only group Barack Obama offered “undying, unfailing support for”, declared fellow Republican Mike Huckabee….” Read the whole thing. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/15/fanned-flames-fascism-politicians-newspapers-charlottesville

    Those goose-stepping marchers in Charlottesville, those racists and fascists, merely represent the undiluted hatred that festers in the US elite.

  65. 65
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @JPL:

    What’s so disheartening is no one will walk away from their cozy job in the West Wing. They sold their souls.

    Except they all threw Trump under the bus after that press conference last night. That’s stunning when you think about it; the WH staff disavowed the president. So WTF is going on, Trump just sits at the big desk and his staff just ignores him and Kelly is really the president?

  66. 66
    gene108 says:

    @Hal:

    All those open carry laws sure were a good idea. Nothing bad could possibly happen between open carry and the Nazi sympathizer in chief.

    Open carry is about allowing whites to walk around with guns and thus intimidate others. There is some intersection, in my opinion, between gun lobby groups and white supremacists.

    The gun lobby has to know that the people they are pushing to stockpile guns are white conservatives, who are racist, such as the Bundy clan, and that law enforcement does not enforce open carry laws the same when it comes to whites and blacks carrying.

    The NRA response to the Castile murder is just one example of making sure whites get the privilege of walking around with guns and blacks do not.

  67. 67
    Boatboy_srq says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Rotten crabapples and distance from the tree.

  68. 68

    @sherparick:
    Thank you for this! It’s a perspective we hadn’t heard. I always want to hear both sides, even if I end up judging one as illegitimate.

    @Jeffro:
    Interesting. It was obvious to me from the beginning that Trump was a racist. Enriching himself, wiping Obama from the history books, giving Putin anything he wants, and bigotry have been his only policies. He may be even worse than I thought, actually Sessions and neo-Nazi level racist. I pictured him as a more casual ‘ethnic jokes and stereotypes’ level until now, his nastiness driven more by his general assholery.

  69. 69
    rikyrah says:

    Read whole article & RT. It’s from BEFORE election. Trump’s words & actions are deliberate. By @intelwire @politico https://t.co/SjlHMhYQTr pic.twitter.com/CUDP7PPCFD
    — rob delaney (@robdelaney) August 16, 2017

  70. 70
    rikyrah says:

    ‘Theresa May, either take a stand or get the hell out of office – Britain doesn’t want a PM who won’t condemn Trump’ https://t.co/iAxwsu7ELr
    — The Independent (@Independent) August 16, 2017

  71. 71
    gene108 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Technical point, we do blame both sides on who started the Civil War. Far too many people in this country view it as the War of Northern Aggression.

  72. 72
    sdhays says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: They disavow anonymously for things they’ve heard him say before. Not that impressive.

  73. 73
    gene108 says:

    @JPL:

    What’s so disheartening is no one will walk away from their cozy job in the West Wing. They sold their souls.

    What is more disheartening is guys like Gary Cohn are financially set for life. They don’t need the paycheck, but are still sticking on to this shit show.

    At some level they must approve.

  74. 74
    Tokyokie says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: The entire purpose of open carry is to cause others to alter their lawful actions to conform to what they perceive are the open-carry advocates’ preferences out of fear of suffering severe bodily injury should they fail to do so. In other words, open carry is the crime of assault. Period. Intimidation is the entire purpose of open carry, and as such, it is a criminal act.

  75. 75
    jonas says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    It’s time for the “reasonable” Republicans to get this shitbag out of office.

    They all quit or were primaried away a long time ago. All that’s left is a motley assortment of idiots, radicals, and snivelling enablers, some of whom maybe know they’re going to go to hell for this, but can’t quit now.

  76. 76
    Tom says:

    @gene108: Sure, because the North fired the first shots at Fort Sumter…or something.

  77. 77
    TS says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Except they all threw Trump under the bus after that press conference last night. That’s stunning when you think about it; the WH staff disavowed the president. So WTF is going on, Trump just sits at the big desk and his staff just ignores him and Kelly is really the president?

    If they are still working for him at the close of business today – it means nothing.

  78. 78
    sdhays says:

    @gene108: They all approve. They knew this is who he is, and they signed up anyway. They’re not surprised, just upset that a lot of people are no longer fooled.

    The only one that I think might be actually having a hard time is McMaster. I think he may (possibly!) be a guy who’s just trying to make sure the whole world doesn’t burn down and is willing to destroy himself to do it. Maybe not, but he’s the only one that I see that as a possibility. Everyone else is definitely an evil racist piece of shit, and that’s why they’re there.

  79. 79
    Yarrow says:

    @Ohio Mom: Governor Kasich (on the Today Show) was yelling about how terrible all these Nazis are. He Totally Outraged about how unacceptable it all is, going on and on. Then Savannah Guthrie asks him,”What should Republicans do? What do you do if you work in the Trump White House?” Kasich reminds us he didn’t endorse Trump, but says, “I want him to do well.” When Matt Lauer asks him if he’ll go around to Republicans leaders and say, “tell this President we no longer support him, period.” Kasich completely wimps out, “Well, look. He’s our President, okay, and I’m here speaking out as aggressively as I can.” Uh huh. He did a fine job of Looking Outraged, but denouncing Trump is apparently a bridge too far.

    He say, “The Presidency is being reduced to another CEO job.” That was nice to hear. Fucking “run government like a business” bullshit needs to die.

  80. 80
    Sanjuro58 says:

    Just watched a few minutes of the Trump press conference on 8/15/17. Wasn’t really listening to the words but looking at body language and was immediately reminded of a TV show called “Lie to Me”. For those unfamiliar with show, it was about a deception expert who studied facial expressions and body language to gauge the truthfulness of people. Anyways Trump’s expressions and body language seems to indicate a lot about him and I wish someone qualified to speak on it would analyze his statements and responses and associated facial/body language.

  81. 81
    Elizabelle says:

    @Jeffro: Good for Jennifer Rubin.

    I think that Trump’s equating confederate heroes with Washington and Jefferson is not gonna work out for him. NPR was oblivious in a quick segment yesterday, they missed the opportunity to say “two of these people took up arms AGAINST the United States of America and fought a war of secession.” It’s not that hard, NPR; it’s not.

    All that said: another wake up call. More proof that Trump is the president of the Red States only (so many levels to Red, no?) and pretty much the retrogrades and deplorables in those states.

    I want him to take down the entire Republican leadership. Take McConnell and Ryan out too; they stand by, hoping for their tax cuts. Traitors.

  82. 82
    Cermet says:

    @Ohio Mom: They will have none – when it comes to money (and NO I am in no way saying that is a Jewish thing(!) but rather a conservative thing big time) – all religious beliefs and family values are tossed into the garbage and the wagons circled to defend all the lies, hatred and racism of their fellow thugs.

  83. 83
    smintheus says:

    Where the hell was the FBI?

  84. 84
    NotMax says:

    @sdhays

    Those willingly, even eagerly, suck down the tainted Kool-Aid have no standing to whine about a tummy ache.

  85. 85
    Gator90 says:

    Our synagogue always has police protection during services and other events. Their familiar presence is at once disconcerting and reassuring. When I went to Rome a few years ago, I learned that the old synagogue is guarded 24/7 by a soldier with a machine gun. Something tells me DJT wouldn’t see that as a worthwhile allocation of military resources…

  86. 86
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @gene108:

    Technical point, we do blame both sides on who started the Civil War. Far too many people in this country view it as the War of Northern Aggression.

    It amazes that, having grown up in mostly in Memphis and having attended a college named after Robert E. Lee, I first heard this term in law school in Georgia. From a guy who went to UVA.

    When I hear it now, which is mercifully rarely, I drop some history on the speaker and then quote the articles of secession to cut off their next misstatement of fact.

  87. 87
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tokyokie: Thank you for speaking that truth. This open carry madness has got to end. Any first amendment considerations for allowing the Nazi rally to go forward were mooted by the suppression of speech perpetrated by the white supremacists exercising their second amendment “rights.” I use scare quotes because the “right” to carry guns openly through city streets is an absurd invention.

  88. 88
    Barbara says:

    @sherparick: I have a few minutes at last to post. I am in Greece this week, the birthplace of democracy, and if you can visit you should. Anyway, I lived in Charlottesville a long time ago but the city (probably any small city) has an inadequate police force even for combating whatever normal crime arises, and is completely unprepared for any kind of outlier event. Or at least that’s how it was when I lived there. I am following events and reading posts but can’t really post. What has someone said about Trump? I am shocked, but not surprised. RIP Ms. Hyer, and also Stigler and Brooks, the two members of the 82nd Airborne who died this week. When I see pictures of the dead I try to feel as much pride for their service and patriotism as I do despair for the way their country squanders it sometimes.

  89. 89
    TS says:

    Was listening to Jimmy Kimmel from last night – he showed some parts of trump’s “press conference”. Trump looks more like an oompa loompa every time he appears on screen. Does anyone claim to have the job of making him look like that?

  90. 90

    If only somebody had tried to warn us that so many Trump supporters were such deplorable people!

  91. 91
    Calouste says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Ah, no. The White House staff disavowed the Nazi-sympathizer-in-chief saying it in public.

  92. 92
    burnspbesq says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “Cowardly centrist bullshit” got us the ACA, Ledbetter, Dodd-Frank, the end of don’t ask don’t tell, and other gains too numerous to mention.

    Self-proclaimed progressives have delivered exactly zero progress.

    That’s the reality on the ground, and you know it every bit as well as I do.

    Mockery is a perfect appropriate response to any group that over-promises and under-delivers.

    Period, full stop.

  93. 93
    rikyrah says:

    OH is in court taking away voting rights for minorities – a key perpetuation of white supremacy; stop talking a good game & act #JohnKasich
    — Linda Kyambadde (@globalcitizenln) August 16, 2017

  94. 94

    @burnspbesq: the AP style guide people had a blog post this morning saying “alt-left” doesn’t exist and was made up by the right and not to use it to describe people.

  95. 95

    I thought “Man in the High Castle” was supposed to be a work of fiction, not real history.

    Nazi America. Here we are.

  96. 96
    MomSense says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Actually I’ve seen it used by people to describe the self described progressive bros who attack them. They are saying that they will stop using the term as it muddies the situation now.

  97. 97
    burnspbesq says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    This open carry madness has got to end.

    But it’s never going to. The Supreme Court, as currently constituted, will never limit the reach of Heller.

    Heavily armed, poorly trained, undisciplined right-wing crackpots are the new normal. The question for the left is do we recognize the new reality and respond in kind (with superior training and the resolve to actually use force when it is required), or do we surrender.

  98. 98
    rikyrah says:

    The problem is not that he went rogue, but that he spoke from his heart. And that is a very dark place. https://t.co/snn4QTUd6R
    — David Corn (@DavidCornDC) August 16, 2017

  99. 99
    MomSense says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    That series was easier to watch when I thought it was more unrealistic. Same for Handmaid’s Tale. And the poor writers for The Americans are going to have to kick it up several notches to compete with real life.

  100. 100
    Kay says:

    I listened to a locally popular music station this morning and the normally obnoxious and obviously Right-leaning hosts were attacking Trump not for his racism but for his “lack of leadership”. These are people who used to make nasty comments about John Kerry ads when the ads were running on their station – the ad would run and then the two hosts would jeer at Kerry. John Kerry was paying radio stations to run his ads and then the employees of the station were using the ad to attack him, which still amazes me.

    This seems like it really hit Trump hard but I don’t want to be disappointed in voters again and after 2016 I don’t think we can take anything for granted or make predictions. Or I should say I can’t. For all I know this will motivate Trump’s base to support him more. That’s why people do “dogwhistles”, right? Because they know they work.

    I never thought people would elect him. He seemed so obviously unfit in so many ways I just didn’t think they would do it- but they did.

  101. 101
    JPL says:

    @The Moar You Know: I tried to watch the Man in the High Castle, around the same time the freedom girls entertained the asshole. I couldn’t get beyond the third episode, because of nightmares.

  102. 102

    @MomSense: that was also covered. It was a riveting paragraph 😂

  103. 103
    JPL says:

    @MomSense: I read that Veep actually took out lines pertaining to a golden shower.

  104. 104
    Another Scott says:

    The BBC radio just had a brief interview with some RWNJ commentator in Israel. She was horrid. The “whataboutery” meter was pegged off-scale. (roughly) “Nobody every talks about the horrible antisemitism on the Left. Look at Labour in the UK. They’re horrible!!1 The neo-Nazi stuff on in the US is a tiny fringe, it’s not institutionalized the way it is on the Left in the UK!!1”

    I guess she thinks that the Presidency isn’t an important institution in the USA.

    Yeah, the Labour government in the UK is supporting neo-Nazis running down people in England.

    What? Labour doesn’t have the majority in the UK? Who knew??!

    (groucho-roll-eyes.gif)

    It’s amazing how people will rationalize anything if by doing so they can advance their political ambitions.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105
    PST says:

    When I was a kid my family moved from a small backward town to a predominantly Jewish city neighborhood. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me, and exposed me to a completely new world of politics, goals, and ideas. Still, there is one bad habit I picked up that I have found difficult to shake completely — that of judging Jews by a somewhat higher standard. Of course my friends and their families did too, but it’s not such an attractive characteristic in a gentile, so I try to suppress it. Still … Yesterday, as I watched Gary Cohn and Steve Mnuchin (The Mnooch!) standing shoulder-to-shoulder with that moral imbecile, I could not stop myself from asking: How the fvck can any self-respecting Jew lend his support and reputation to that defender of racists and protector of antisemites!

  106. 106
    Bostondreams says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Betty, I’m sure you saw the news that UF has denied Spencer’s request for a permit to speak there.

    As a three time alumnus, this makes me happy to say Go Gators today.

  107. 107
    Yarrow says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    the AP style guide people had a blog post this morning saying “alt-left” doesn’t exist and was made up by the right and not to use it to describe people.

    That’s good to see.

  108. 108
    Boatboy_srq says:

    @smintheus: Maybe we should ask Comey: he got fired for asking questions like that.

  109. 109
    rikyrah says:

    Pence says he ‘never witnessed’ campaign collusion with Russia
    08/15/17 12:43 PM
    By Steve Benen

    Mike Pence has stuck his neck out for the White House, and on plenty of instances, it hasn’t turned out well for the vice president.

    For example, Pence said Donald Trump firing then-FBI Director James Comey had nothing to do with the Russia scandal, and as regular readers know, that turned out to be untrue. We also know that Pence’s claims about when he learned of Michael Flynn’s work as a foreign agent clearly aren’t true. The vice president’s claims about Flynn’s communications with Russia were also proven to be false. And, of course, when Pence said no one from Team Trump spoke with Russian officials before Election Day, that wasn’t even close to being true.

    It’s apparently dawned on the Indiana Republican that he should be a little more circumspect when issuing blanket denials, especially when it comes to Team Trump and the Russia scandal. CBS News reported this morning:

    Vice President Mike Pence says he “never witnessed” any evidence of collusion between the Russian government and Trump campaign officials during the 2016 campaign, and reaffirmed his commitment to cooperating with the special counsel’s investigation into Russian election interference and possible Russian ties to the Trump organization.

    During his visit to a Christian mission in Cartagena, Colombia on Monday, Pence told reporters “during all of my experience on the campaign, I never witnessed any evidence of collusion or any of the allegations, I’m not aware of that ever having occurred.”

    Note the caution and the caveats. Months ago, when Pence was asked whether campaign officials communicated with Russian officials during Russia’s espionage operation, the vice president said, “Of course not.” We now know, of course, that the truth is the exact opposite.

    And so, phrases such as “of course not” have been replaced with lawyerly phrasing such as “I never witnessed” and “I’m not aware of.”

  110. 110
    Spanky says:

    Currently, typing “it ca” in Google autocompletes to “It Can’t Happen Here” as its first choice.

    I’m kind of surprised our Google searchers are so literate, to tell the truth.

    (Ah poop. I mistakenly dropped this on BiG’s On the Road pic thread way downstairs. Apologies.)

  111. 111

    @PST:

    Steve Mnuchin (The Mnooch!)

    This has successfully meme-wormed its way into my brain, thanks.

    @Spanky: google autocomplete is personalized, and even if you use an incognito window it’s regionalized etc.

  112. 112
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @MomSense: Yeah, my FB friend who’s the most enthusiastic about Chapo Trap House, Corey Robin, and other assorted lefter-than-left nimrods was bleating about how Trump was using a term that centrist/corporatists had made up to disparage his side, “alt-left” being something like the supposedly highly disparaging “Bernie Bro,” and he hoped we were all fine with that. Seems to me the crew that first started carping about how everything was RIGGED and ESTABLISHMENT, both of which ended up being key terms for the Trump campaign, should consider taking a long look in the mirror before anteing in on this particular game.

  113. 113
    Ruckus says:

    @Another Scott:

    they can advance their political ambitions.

    Or stupidity.

  114. 114
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @rikyrah: Someone behind the scenes seems to be telling the braintrust (as it were) to reframe the discussion such that the accusation of colluding with Russia becomes an accusation that actual Russian goons were staffing Trump campaign offices. Trump got there first with his “I never saw any Russians on the campaign, did you?” kinds of remarks at his rallies. If Pence is now playing that game too, that’s interesting.

  115. 115

    @FlipYrWhig: two commenters here were echoing the same line yesterday, I don’t know where the talking point came from but it’s obviously circulating among them.

    And there was what, like, one article in the new republic that used the term or something? And it would be one thing if it was a phrase that would have required some creativity to come up with… Assuming that such an obvious formulation must have a single source is just… so… stupid.

    FYI, the preferred nomenclature for such people is now ‘dirtbag left.’

  116. 116
    Yarrow says:

    @rikyrah: Pence is up to his eyeballs in Russian collusion as well. And Trump will throw him under the bus before he’s forced out of office. Pence better be watching his back

  117. 117
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bostondreams: Saw that on Twitter. Go Gators!

    @burnspbesq: I’m sure you’re correct re: SCOTUS for the foreseeable future. You’re also right that the new reality is heavily armed right-wing crackpots emboldened by a white supremacist president. The choices left to decent people given that reality are uniformly horrifying.

  118. 118
    Spanky says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Well, that explains why its autocompletes are so erudite. :^)

  119. 119
    Chyron HR says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Proper response: “Actual Nazis are literally murdering people on the streets of America and you guys think the greatest threat to the country is doughnuts. Do you need to see a doctor?”

  120. 120
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Major Major Major Major: ALL YOU CORPORATE WHORES KEEP LABELING US AND CALLING US MEAN NAMES

  121. 121

    @Chyron HR: doughnuts and bottled water.

    @FlipYrWhig: they came up with the name themselves.

  122. 122
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Jeffro:

    I have somehow never heard of this person before, but those were fun vids, Jeffro! Thanks for that.

  123. 123
    MomSense says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Agreed, especially since there are some hideously racist things being directed at POC by them. I wonder to what extent B bros are Ronulans/Paulistas and Russian bots. I can’t get an accurate read of the composition of that group.

  124. 124
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    That case is just getting worse and worse. You know the Trump political appointees at the DOJ switched sides and now support removing voters from the rolls but one of the main reasons federal courts disallowed it the first time was because there was the potential for purging to be conducted differently from county to county. So that was two unlawful acts- one is the active violation of the 1993 federal law and the other is the potential for unequal treatment as between counties. If they’re allowed to purge votes but they aren’t conducting the purges using the exact same process in all 88 counties then purging opens up the potential for massive abuse for political gain. Obviously.

    But it’s possible the number is much greater because Ohio’s 88 counties did not uniformly remove voters or report that action.

    The whole idea is to limit subjective decisions by local officials, because that’s where bias comes in. Elections have to be rule-bound. It’s essential that the process be the same in a county with a heavy AA vote as in a county that is majority white. Husted is not doing that. He wants to allow counties to cull voters but he refuses to regulate the process and at least ensure that any culling follows the exact same process in all 88 counties. This is elementary process protections. It’s “fairness 101”. For him to pretend that he doesn’t understand that he has to provide UNIFORMITY means to me that he is intentionally discriminating, he’s just doing it in a way that leaves his fingerprints off it. He pushed the potential discrimination down to the county level where it can conducted without real oversight. He’s setting the stage for them to deny black voters the franchise and he knows it.

    I think this will be the “new front” in voter suppression. They don’t want their fingerprints on it and this is a way to hold the state official harmless. He’ll say “I never intended for the rule to be applied inequitably” but he’s deliberately giving counties leeway to discriminate and they will.

  125. 125

    Heavily armed, poorly trained, undisciplined right-wing crackpots are the new normal. The question for the left is do we recognize the new reality and respond in kind (with superior training and the resolve to actually use force when it is required), or do we surrender.

    @burnspbesq: Thank you. Everything else is noise. This is the question before us.

    ETA: I’m in average shape for a fifty-year old; I can walk a line well enough, can open-carry, but if I gotta brawl with some twenty-year old dickheads I’m going to prove nothing but a liability. Would really like to help out. Not sure what I can or should do.

  126. 126
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @TS:

    Trumpa Loopa?

  127. 127
    MomSense says:

    @JPL:

    OH MY! The poor Onion writers. One of their recent headlines was “Trump Blasts Critics Who Judge Neo Nazi Groups By Most Extreme Members”.

    Oops.

  128. 128
    Another Scott says:

    @rikyrah: One of the NPR shows this morning was playing a clip of Kasich being all “mavericky” in supposedly speaking out against what Trump said. However, he also said:

    “I didn’t endorse the man because I felt that he was a person of division. I have been hoping and I have been restrained in wanting him to be better. The presidency is being reduced to another CEO job. The presidency is the most important job in the country, and there is a bitterness setting in that may not be able to be removed. Look, I want him to do well. I want Donald Trump to understand it’s not about winning an argument. It’s about bringing the country together. It’s not about having some argument trying to justify these people on the left who went to a sweet town like Charlottesville for purposes of bringing violence. He’s got to fix this and Republicans have to speak out. Plain and simple. Who cares what party you’re in?”

    Such maverick. Much courage.

    Sure, but the bolded part gives it away, Johnny. Party before Country, as always.

    Nobody who really cares about America, the Constitution, and our norms and values, wants Trump to do “well”. Trump is a monster and it’s been clear for ages.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129

    @The Moar You Know: nonviolent resistance is not surrender. You gotta ask yourself if a small number–and it would be a small number–of geared-up liberals/leftists fighting back wouldn’t result in total carnage directed back at us.

  130. 130
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Chyron HR: Also, the people Trump is calling “alt-left” are basically Black Bloc. No Bernie Sanders supporter I know is a balaclava-wearing street fighter. They’re all beardos who watch the new Twin Peaks and collect vinyl records.* That’s not who Trump is talking about.

    My dad likes to use the phrase “reflected glory” to talk about people who get too consumed by vicarious experiences. WAAAAY too much reflected glory going on here.

    * Admittedly there are other types. That said, the ones who act insulted in this particular way fit this particular image.

  131. 131
    condorcet runner-up says:

    … after the police department refused to provide us with an officer during morning services …

    This drives me nuts. We have a megachurch less than a mile from our house and about 5-6 times a week, there are local police who are posted there directing traffic when the sessions let out (there’s no stoplight at either of the main entrances to the parking lots). That’s just for traffic.

  132. 132
    Shalimar says:

    @burnspbesq: It took 60 votes in the Senate to pass each of those victories. Why are you giving credit to centrists who finally allowed a watered-down version of healthcare reform to pass and not to progressives who were consistently for it for generations?

  133. 133
    JPL says:

    @MomSense: Amazing.

  134. 134
    dmsilev says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Proper response: “Actual Nazis are literally murdering people on the streets of America and you guys think the greatest threat to the country is doughnuts. Do you need to see a doctor?”

    I’m told that one J. Stein, MD is available for consultation.

  135. 135

    @Shalimar: this is the sort of argument a dumb person would make. You wouldn’t want to be a dumb person, would you?

    @FlipYrWhig:

    They’re all beardos who watch the new Twin Peaks and collect vinyl records.

    Wait, what’s the problem with that?

  136. 136
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: Deray interviewed Gov. McAuliffe on his podcast Pod Save the People. Apparently they found weapons caches placed around the city. Terrorists struck Charlottesville.

    Thanks, downloading now, will listen.

  137. 137
    JPL says:

    @Yarrow: Pence is a coward

    Pool: Pence will not be taking questions at joint event with President Michelle Bachelet initially billed as a press conference

  138. 138

    It took 60 votes in the Senate to pass each of those victories. Why are you giving credit to centrists who finally allowed a watered-down version of healthcare reform to pass and not to progressives who were consistently for it for generations?

    @Shalimar: Because without the “centrists” being persuaded, and changing their minds, you’d have no reform at all. Or anything else.

    “Progressives” need “centrists” far more than “centrists” need “progressives”, if they want to get anything done. For a long time I have questioned, with justification, if “progressives” actually want to get anything done, or just want to stand there with their thumbs in their asses bitching about how oppressed they are.

  139. 139
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Good point. Also, here’s a YouTube featuring one of the Nazi tough guys crying about the lack of a police escort so he can safely turn himself in. I don’t mean to downplay the danger; there are many violent sociopaths in the white supremacist movement Trump has emboldened. But there are many cowardly bullies too.

  140. 140
    Zach says:

    I’m pretty sure GOP’ers are still steaming about two New Black Panther Party clowns, one of whom had a billy club IIRC, outside a Philly polling station in 2008.

    But, silence on armed intimidation/harassment across the country by racist groups. And zero investigations by DOJ civil rights AFAIK even though many of the racist protests have led to violent hate crimes.

    The ONLY way out of this for Trump should be a tearful apology for ignoring the rapidly escalating racist violence at these protests until it got a white girl killed and he finally sorta noticed. But, the media will let him get away with just condemning nazis and the kkk (who weren’t the groups responsible for most of the violence)… and he can’t even get that half right.

  141. 141
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    Here’s how Husted’s breezy “let counties purge, or not purge!” approach will play out in Ohio.

    Republican counties (like mine) won’t scrub rolls- the bd of elections is 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats so the Democrats will say “good! No scrubbing!” “we agree”.

    But that isn’t how it will go in AA counties. There’s 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats in those counties too. The Republicans will vote to scrub, the Democrats will oppose and Husted will be the tie-breaker. He’ll scrub.

    So we’ll have NO voters culled in GOP counties and lots and lots of voters culled in Dem counties- Dem counties in Ohio ARE AA counties so it makes no difference what you call them. Blocking votes in a Dem county means you are blocking AA votes.

  142. 142
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bobby Thomson: And cops in North Carolina quickly arrested at least one of the great folks who tore down that traitor statue in Durham. Shows you whose side cops are on, in my opinion.

  143. 143
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    If local GOP candidates who run in BLUE counties were smart THEY would object to Husted because what he’s doing is culling GOP and Dem voters in blue counties but culling NO voters in GOP counties. It’s engineered to elect Republican who run statewide, so HIM. He’s running for governor. Also, of course, Senators and the President.

  144. 144
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Zach:

    nazis and the kkk (who weren’t the groups responsible for most of the violence)…

    How do you know this?

  145. 145

    @Patricia Kayden: the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the left and right alike to deface pro-right propaganda.

  146. 146
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s a problem when they act like they’re the voices of authentic working people. They’re still creatures of privilege, just ones who style themselves differently. It’s just “trustafarians” with different accessories.

  147. 147
    LAO says:

    In 1995, I was in Italy during the High Holidays and attended services at the Synagogue in Florence. I can’t remember why, but that year the Synagogue was protected by Italian police and/or army, carrying heavy duty weaponry. It was a surreal experience. In my wildest dreams, I never expected to see this in my country. I feel sick.

  148. 148
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kay: Hey, speaking of which, whatever happened to the person who ran against Jon Husted? :/

  149. 149
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    A lot of state elected officials in Ohio are, frankly, dumb. Husted’s not dumb and he’s insanely ambitious. He doesn’t just want to be governor. He wants to be President. He was a moderate Sec of State until the moment he needed not to be, which is right now.

    I’m hoping his fellow douchebags on the Right start fighting with him because THEY all want to be governor :)

  150. 150
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Yarrow: just one of the many pretzels we’ll see Kasich twist himself into as he pursues his dream of the presidency. Hard to walk the line between moderate and not Republucan enough.

  151. 151
    different-church-lady says:

    @Shalimar: Explain to me again how you get to 60 without the centrists on board?

  152. 152
    Spanky says:

    @Patricia Kayden: That’s destruction of property. Pretty textbook. I’d be surprised if they hadn’t made any arrests.

    Now as to whether they are fully charged and tried ….

  153. 153
    different-church-lady says:

    @Zach:

    The ONLY way out of this for Trump should be a tearful apology for ignoring the rapidly escalating racist violence at these protests until it got a white girl killed and he finally sorta noticed resignation.

  154. 154
    Jeffro says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): No problem! HS classmate of mine plays in her band. Her autobiography is NUTS – you can’t put it down.

  155. 155
    Zach says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    How do you know this?

    Because the car driver marched with the fascist alt-right group Vanguard America and every other video I’ve seen of beatings has been by groups carrying shields with similar insignia.

    The nazis, kkk, and gun-toting racist militias have been doing this crap for decades and don’t want to jeopardize the various criminal conspiracies they’re engaged in outside of this protest by getting arrested for beating someone up on camera. It’s the newer alt-right racist groups that are training people to instigate violence at protests and that’s why it’s especially bad that Trump called out the KKK/neo-nazis but not the new, growing threats.

  156. 156
    Kay says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Stop causing fights :)

    The truth is Nina Turner was a sacrificial lamb in that race and she knew it and so did everyone else. She was a team player even to do it. I don’t know what happened to turn her against Ohio Democrats- The Party, not The Voters- but they’re sort of horrible at the top levels so I’m sure there’s blame enough to go around.

  157. 157
    Jeffro says:

    @Another Scott:

    Nobody who really cares about America, the Constitution, and our norms and values, wants Trump to do “well”. Trump is a monster and it’s been clear for ages.

    Amen to this. He’s the opposite of everything good this country stands for, every ideal we’ve ever held dear. What kind of spineless cretin would want him to do “well”?

  158. 158
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Cermet: But they are the ones who are always hyped up about how the whole world is against us, Liberal Jews who befriend and advocate for other minorities are saps, “Scratch a goy, find an antisemite.”

    They are the people I tell (ironically) that I do not live in fear because the genius of the US for Jews is that there are so many others ahead of us in the to-be-hated line (Blacks, Natuve Americans, Latinos, Muslims, Gays, etc. etc.). They never get it. I get called self-hating.

  159. 159
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Barbara: Peoof that the town’s police force were not up to the challenge was the unmaintained helicopter crashing. Perhaps for crowd control, they should set up a mounted patrol. Horses are a technology they can probably managed.

  160. 160
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kay: Touche. Mostly I mean that someone who wants to be an activist for good causes could be putting herself on the front lines _right there_, dogging an old foe and being lauded by just about everybody for it.

  161. 161
    Gretchen says:

    The McAuliffe interview on Pod Save the People was really good. He explicitly said that they held back because the Nazis were so heavily armed in such a crowded place that their biggest fear was mass casualties if one of them started shooting. He also said they were expecting all the storefront glass to be smashed. They tried to get the rally held in an open field farther out of town but the ACLU sued and a judge said they had to hold it there. McAuliffe was frankly relieved that it wasn’t worse. And he had been personally very close to the two troopers who died – they were part of his security detail.

  162. 162
    Gretchen says:

    @Ohio Mom: McAuliffe said the helicopter had been in the air all day monitoring the crowd.

  163. 163
    Kay says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    My husband loves her. He met her before the Big Split with the Democratic Party and I quote “she exudes integrity”

    He’s a good judge of character! Obviously :)

    I don’t know what happened but I bet there’s a story there and I bet Ohio Democrats did something horrible.

  164. 164
    Doug Gardner says:

    @Ohio Mom: I live about 50 miles north of you in Springboro, where the snow is white, and the citizens whiter. The only contest in our local elections is between “conservative” and “Attila the Hun conservative”.

  165. 165
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Gretchen: I thought I read that there were maintenance issues with the helicopter. Will have to google that.

  166. 166
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Ohio Mom: I just usually end up pointing out, if they have any sense of history, that the ennobled and assimilated German Jews were driven out, shipped to camps, or murdered along with the rest of the community. (Doesn’t generally make me friends to also remind them that another group of people targeted by the KKK for synagogue destruction, cross burnings, & the rare lynching, was Jewish).

  167. 167
    Tenar Arha says:

    @MomSense: Yeah. If there’d been more people there….

    I made the mistake on reading a tweetstream yesterday where someone pointed out that the nightmare scenario based on this information is that in Rwanda, before the genocide, they had hidden caches of machetes around specific villages. Then they told people just beforehand where exactly to dig them up.

  168. 168
    Ian G. says:

    When these guys take over, and they do David Horowitz, Stephen Miller, and Pam Geller the courtesy of making them the last Jews thrown in the gas chambers, I’m guessing we won’t hear any protestations from them, because “the left” will have been defeated, and that’s what matters. They’ll have the joys of watching all the Jewish boogeymen in their heads from Chomsky to Jon Stewart to Chuck Schumer to David Frum go first.

  169. 169
    ruckus says:

    @burnspbesq:
    I’ve read this a couple of times and I think I see where you are going, but I think it at least should be better written. We shouldn’t become the other side. We have to be better. MLK gave us the answer. There are more of us. We are better. We need to act like it. That photo of the woman in the dress standing open arms in front of riot police says it all. And that’s how you get far more people on our side.

  170. 170
    Stan says:

    @Fester Addams:

    Next question, will the Virginia National Guard obey the governor of that state?

    Wow, yeah. I mean last time the militias (and the National Guard is the ‘militia’ referenced in the Second Amendment) of the south had the choice of keeping faith with the US Constitution or joining the rebellion against it, they chose rebellion. Shit…..

  171. 171
    Felonius Monk says:

    @smintheus:

    Where the hell was the FBI?

    Still checking Hillary’s e-mails.

  172. 172
    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues says:

    @Ohio Mom: Ohio Mom, I live in Loveland, and have lots of Jewish neighbors. I pass by a synagogue on my commute home from work, but have fortunately not noticed anything untoward at that location. As for my neighbors, I do not discuss politics with them, primarily because I very recently (April) became a US citizen and registered to vote. When I get a chance, I’ll reach out to them to offer my support and help.

    I do see that a few folks around me had signs supporting Herr Groppenfuhrer last November. Although smaller than the number supporting Romney in 2012, this is still disgusting. These people are direct threats to my interracial family and myself.

  173. 173
    J R in WV says:

    @sherparick:

    A pretty good comment all in all. But your finish:

    Those goose-stepping marchers in Charlottesville, those racists and fascists, merely represent the undiluted hatred that festers in the US elite.

    That word at the end, “elite” I don’t think it means what you thing it means. No one who believes the things in your comment is an elite at all – they are filth. Trashy filth in plain English. Just because they have money or political power via their dogwhistles and lying doesn’t make them elite. The young woman arrested in Durham, she’s elite, brave, resourceful, and patriotic according the American ideals.

    The Fascists in America are the same cowardly filthy bullies we saw in Europe the the first half of the last century. Starting with Drumpf [The original version of Trump’s family name!] and running all the way down to the little Kentucky dirtbag who committed terrorism in Virginia last Saturday.

    And the speech Trump gave yesterday is all real Americans should need to do impeachment to throw the Big Dirtbag out, watch the video all together in the House chamber, then vote, and send the results to the Senate, with a note telling the Senate to do their job, watch the video, and protect American values.

    It should take two days, tops, and given Pence’s lack of support for American values and robust support for Trump, they should do both of them in one vote.

  174. 174
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    cops in North Carolina quickly arrested at least one of the great folks who tore down that traitor statue in Durham.

    Sorry Patricia, I agree 100% with the police arresting those vandals. That is their job and I would be willing to bet that the people who tore down the statue were expecting to be, and probably welcomed being, arrested.
    Pressuring local governments to remove the offensive statues is by far the best way to go.

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