The Moral Degeneracy at the Heart of the Current Administration

In March, during the string of weekly threatening phone calls to Jewish Community Centers, synagogues, and other Jewish organizations, which we now know was largely conducted by a mentally ill Israeli, and several acts of desecration at Jewish cemeteries in different parts of the US, which are still unsolved, I wrote that the President’s response was:

insufficient because the only significant change over the past several months is the election and inauguration of the President. There hasn’t been a spike in unemployment. The stock market hasn’t crashed. There hasn’t been a major national disaster with effects that could possibly be correlated with these incidents. There hasn’t been a foreign inspired/orchestrated attack on Americans within the US. The US and its coalition partners are winning the fight against ISIL in Iraq and Syria. Every possible indicator we would even conceivably consider as an explanatory variable to explain the increase in hate crimes, stochastic violence, and to be very precise in the terminology, domestic terrorism* is the election and the inauguration.

Now I want to be very, very, very, very clearI am not accusing the President of being an anti-Semite. Or a racist. Or anti-Muslim. Or a bigot of any kind. And that’s why the letter signed by all 100 Senators and Sean Spicer’s statements are insufficient. It is insufficient because it doesn’t matter at all whether the President or anyone who works for him and with him are any of these things. The leadership and much of the membership of the variousKlan, neo-NAZI, white supremacist, white nationalist, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim (Islamophobic), anti-immigrant (legal and/or undocumented) groups and organizations have all come out in support of the President and his agenda. Many of them, both leaders and members, have stated that the President’s message speaks directly to themThat he has been the biggest boon to their recruiting and activities in decades. That what he says and what he is proposing doing/is doing is what they both think needs to be done and what they want to see done in the US.

It is this sad, unfortunate reality that makes the official Senatorial and Administration responses insufficient. A sufficient response would include the President giving a prime time address denouncing all of the increase in hate crimes, stochastic violence, and low level domestic terrorism* directed at American religious and ethnic minorities, LGBTQ Americans, immigrants, and visitors to America in no uncertain terms. Additionally he should make it clear in such an address that these types of activities are un-American and are intolerable to Americans of good conscience regardless of political party affiliation, ideology, religion, and ethnicity. Finally, he should create a Federal Law Enforcement Task Force to investigate and prosecute the sharp increase in hate crimes, stochastic violence, and low level domestic terrorism since his election and inauguration. This would be sufficient. Every other response is simply fluff.

Both the President’s response to the act of domestic terrorism in Charlottesville yesterday and its larger context, as well as those of unnamed members of his White House staff are not just insufficient. Rather they clearly demonstrate the moral degeneracy of the President and many of his administration’s senior officials.

The President’s response yesterday, as well as those from both unnamed and named officials, demonstrate that as we approach the seven month point of this administration it is clear that the President himself is not just, to paraphrase, a cancer on the presidency. Rather he is now the arch example of the moral decay into white nationalist reactionism and revanchism in America in 2017. 

Here is the President’s response yesterday:

 Above all else, we must remember this truth: No matter our color, creed, religion or political party, we are all Americans first. We love our country. We love our God. We love our flag. We’re proud of our country. We’re proud of who we are. So we want to get the situation straightened out in Charlottesville, and we want to study it. And we want to see what we’re doing wrong as a country, where things like this can happen.My administration is restoring the sacred bonds of loyalty between this nation and its citizens, but our citizens must also restore the bonds of trust and loyalty between one another. We must love each other, respect each other, and cherish our history and our future together. So important. We have to respect each other. Ideally, we have to love each other.

And here’s an unnamed senior White House official’s when asked for clarification:

I think Josh Marshall’s take here is correct:

Marshall isn’t the only one making this connection. University of Minnesota law professor and former Bush (43) Administration ethics counsel Richard Painter drew a similar conclusion:

Certainly the white nationalists, white supremacists, neo-NAZIs, Klansmen, etc understood the President’s message the same way that Marshall, Painter, and I do:

Just click through to the Daily Stormer’s Unite the Right page where the excerpt above was taken from. Also, they think the accused terrorist/murderer is Jewish. And that’s going to be their story going forward: false flag, Jewish infiltration, we’re being maligned and made to look bad. Or David Duke’s remarks:

And all of this is why the President and his unnamed senior administration officials responses aren’t just insufficient, but an indication of the moral deficiency of the President and too many of his close appointees and advisors. When neo-NAZIs, Klansmen, white nationalists, white supremacists, and the militia cosplay crowd believe you are speaking directly to them, supporting what they support, believe what they believe, and are explicitly and implicitly working on their behalf then you have a real problem. And that problem is not going to be resolved by giving mealy mouthed magic balance fairy and view from nowhere and both sides do it responses to a major domestic terrorism incident in the US.

Here’s the President’s response to the attack in Nice, France that also employed a vehicle as an improvised weapon:

Here’s his response to the attack in London that also employed a vehicle as an improvised weapon:

And here are his twitter responses from yesterday:

There is a stark difference and that is before we even get to the “shared history” dogwhistle that Josh Marshall flagged. The difference is further reinforced by the responses of a number of Republican senators:

A full rundown can be found here. Now, of course, we have to wait and see what these senators will actually do about the merger of their party with the white nationalism and white supremacism that is at the heart of Trumpism and Bannon’s national populism.

Former Bush (43) Administration ethics counsel Professor Richard Painter has clearly delineated the problem and the necessary solution:

276 replies
  1. 1
    Roger Moore says:

    which we now know was largely conducted by a mentally ill Israeli

    Do we know he was mentally ill? The last I had heard, he was doing it for hire.

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: It was reported that he had a history of diagnosed mental illness.

  3. 3
    NotMax says:

    We love our God.

    Our? As if (for those who believe in such things) there’s a God unique to and an object of worship only by Americans?

  4. 4
    JPL says:

    When I saw the tweet earlier, I wondered what would happen if civics classes showed the film “Don’t be a sucker”. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were an uproar among some parents.

  5. 5
    Jay C says:

    And while parsing “tone of voice” nuances is typically/usually a dumb game, watching Trump “deliver” that remark about the Charlottesville violence is pretty telling: reading from a prepared text, with the flat, unemotional delivery he usually employs when having to say things in public he really doesn’t want to.* Amazing thing about this President/Administration: no matter what the issue, the initial comment on it is overwhelmingly likely to be stupid/mendacious/counterproductive: and any further “clarifications” are overwhelmingly like to make things worse.
    Making America Great!!!!!!

    *Dyslexia?

  6. 6
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Anglo-Israelitism. Same theology and doctrine that Woodrow Wilson was an adherent too. It is woven into a lot of American evangelicalism, especially the white charismatic denominations.
    https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Racist-Right-Christian-Identity/dp/0807846384/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502647034&sr=8-1&keywords=religion+and+the+racist+right

  7. 7
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: Yep.

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay C: There is a lot of speculation this morning whether Miller was tasked with quickly writing that. No one is quite sure if he’s in Bedminster or stayed back in DC with Bannon.

  9. 9
    JPL says:

    Vox has a video about Tucker Carlson use of code words to attract white supremacists. It was worth watching for me, because I had no idea how pervasive the hate is.
    https://www.vox.com/videos/2017/7/21/16008190/strikethrough-white-supremacists-love-tucker-carlson

  10. 10
    Adam L Silverman says:

    For those still wondering, the shield with the stylized fasces being held by Fields in the pictures yesterday, are from the Vanguard America group. Vanguard America was one of the Unite the Right organizers and has issued a statement stating that they handed the shields out to anyone who wanted one, that Fields was not one of their members, and was not affiliated with them.

  11. 11
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: if it’s true that Bannon’s on the outs, Miller was my first guess as the one who threw in that “cherish our history” line

  12. 12
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: God bless America.

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    The answer to this is to remove every single monument to the rebel traitors on public lands anywhere in the USA.

    Congress could take the lead by pressuring those states which have placed monuments to Confederates – some depicted wearing the rebel uniform – in the Capitol’s statuary hall to replace them.

    /when pigs fly

  14. 14
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ve gone from Kremlinology to West Wingology.

  15. 15
    Wag says:

    I’m watching these developments from across the North Atlantic, and I’m baffled by Trumps response. Actually, let me rephrase that. I’m both unsurprised and resigned to Trump’s response. Disappointed doesn’t even come close to my disgust with our president.

    But her emails…

  16. 16
    Jay C says:

    Unfortunately unable to find a copiable text, but one Tom Bossert – described as a “homeland security advisor” for Trump, went on record today:

    1. Blaming the victim in Charlottesville (“they went looking for trouble”)
    2. Said that he personally “condemns white supremacists and Nazi groups” ,but couldn’t say whether the President agreed with him
    3. Tried to shift the conversation to “global jihadist terrorism”

    Moral degeneracy, indeed.

  17. 17
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    When I asked senior WH official why Trump didn’t condemn Cville Nazis, he said: “What about the leftist mob. Just as violent if not more so”

    Classic whataboutery. A propaganda techniques pioneered in the old Soviet Union

  18. 18
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Heh. Yep, I’ll cop to it. As with “fire and fury” I just can’t believe that trump can come up with anything more than great, terrific, sad, very bad, etc

    @JPL: among other things….

    Since taking over Bill O’Reilly’s slot on Fox News, Tucker Carlson has had the most-watched news show on cable. His populist rhetoric

    Populist rhetoric from trust fund Tucker… good lord
    and that “eyebrow” thing, that’s gonna piss Tucker off when he inevitably watches that video
    ETA: and… Oh, my. Can we fix the google so that DWTS video comes up every time someone tries to find out what a Tucker Carlson is?

  19. 19
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Hmm. Gonna have to see God’s birth certificate first.

    ;)

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay C: Here you go:

  21. 21
    Kay says:

    Ivanka Trump‏Verified account
    @IvankaTrump
    Follow
    More
    1:2 There should be no place in society for racism, white supremacy and neo-nazis.

    Nothing I like better than a lecture from the nepotism hires. Ivanka backed her dad all thru his cynical and disgusting birther campaign- she did this while the Obama girls were in the White House and had to fucking listen to it every day.

    She should apologize to them. Her father was lying and smearing to benefit the Trump Family, and boy have they benefited. They’re selling golf memberships using the presidential seal as we speak.

    Credibility is earned and Ivanka didn’t earn it. I refuse this lecture from her. If there were a way to turn my back when she speaks I would appreciate it. It’s an imposition to have to put up with the President’s family acting as if they were elected and have some kind of consent to govern. She’s there because daddy put her there. The least she could do is not lecture us.

  22. 22
    bystander says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There is a lot of speculation this morning whether Miller was tasked with quickly writing that. No one is quite sure if he’s in Bedminster or stayed back in DC with Bannon.

    Life is hard for the servant of two masters. The puns write themselves.

  23. 23
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Wow, look at all those Republican Senators commenting about this. Tomorrow they will vote the way they always have, fuck them.

  24. 24
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Also, they think the accused terrorist/murderer is Jewish. And that’s going to be their story going forward: false flag, Jewish infiltration, we’re being maligned and made to look bad.

    That may work for them, but not for the rest of us. We see through them. All good Americans will beat them down and back into the abyss they came from

  25. 25
    sloan says:

    Where is Obama or Hillary?

    They need to go public, full speech, press conference etc. We need someone to be a President right now.

    Get out in front of Trump and show real leadership. Upstage that shitstain and who cares if it breaks with tradition. That ship has sailed.

  26. 26
    Zach says:

    http://time.com/4466706/hillar.....ranscript/

    Worth re-reading Clinton’s speech on Trump’s racism from almost exactly a year ago.

    Now Trump’s lack of knowledge or experience or solutions would be bad enough. But what he’s doing here is more sinister. Trump is reinforcing harmful stereotypes and offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. It’s a disturbing preview of what kind of President he’d be.

  27. 27
    efgoldman says:

    And yet: 62 million of our fellow Americans voted for this bag of pigshit and his four-year-old outlook. I hope they’re happy.

    I am not accusing the President of being an anti-Semite. Or a racist. Or anti-Muslim. Or a bigot of any kind.

    If it walks like a duck…
    Every thought, action, and utterance self-labels him as all those things.
    He has the courage of his convictions that a spoiled four year old (which he is) has.
    And he has surrounded himself with like-minded frauds and ignoramuses, who suck up to his worst impulses, while he cosplays at being “president.”
    I so hope Mueller’s team (and Schneiderman’s) find major money laundering and other criminal financial shenanigans that will put this ugly toad in Club Fed for the rest of his miserable life.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bystander: Also if one wants to keep their job when not doing white nationalist cosplay:

  29. 29
    Jay C says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks, Adam: but still no text there: looks like Bossert’s scrubbed his feed: no wonder.

  30. 30
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @ kylegriffin1 14h14 hours ago
    Michelle Obama: “The presidency doesn’t change who you are. It reveals who you are.”

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: The Llllllloooooonnnnngggggg form of course.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sloan: No we don’t. Good, bad, or otherwise we have one president at a time. At some point I would expect a joint statement from at least President Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama as among the still living presidents (ETA:) as President’s Carter and Bush (41) are in there 90s and dealing with age related infirmities. But I don’t expect that until something happens with Mueller’s investigation.

  33. 33
    bystander says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Now that’s funny!

    We need a meme of Kim Jong Un kicking back with a bag of Cheetos and watching a widescreen split between MSNBC and CNN. Trump obviously got tired of sharing the spotlight.

  34. 34
    Mike in NC says:

    Came across an article today in Slate called “Bellicose Word Vomit” in which various pundits were ridiculed for giving Trump way too much credit for having deep thoughts on a host of issues. They simply cannot accept that the man is an idiot.

  35. 35
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay C: Try this:
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....ottesville

    White House homeland security adviser Tom Bossert on Sunday claimed President Donald Trump’s failure to condemn white supremacists after violence broke out at a rally in Charlottesville was because he didn’t want to “dignify” the movement.

    “The President not only condemned the violence, and stood up at a time and a moment when calm was necessary, and didn’t dignify the names of these groups of people, but rather addressed the fundamental issue,” Bossert said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    Trump on Saturday did not remark on the nature of the rally but called the clashes an “egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides” and called for Americans to “love each other.”

    “What you need to focus on is the rest of his statement,” Bossert said.

    He called Trump’s comments about love “a fundamental assault on the very nature of the hatred that we’re seeing here.”

    CNN’s Jake Tapper pressed Bossert to give his own response to the violence.

    “You on this show today have said that you condemn groups and condemn actions and condemn bigotry, but I haven’t heard you say, ‘I condemn white supremacists. I condemn neo-Nazis. I condemn the alt-right.’ I haven’t heard that,” he said.

    “I think you’ve belabored it,” Bossert fired back. “So let me say, I condemn white supremacists and racists and white Nazi groups and all the other groups that espouse this kind of hatred and exclusion.”

    Bossert’s claim that condemning white supremacy groups in those terms would “dignify” them rang hollow in light of Trump’s fixation on using one particular term for a different kind of violence.

  36. 36
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: also this poster I’ve never seen before wants Obama and/or Clinton to tell people what trump and Republican really are– they spent most of 2016 doing that. A majority of white people, typed the fish-belly-hued man, didn’t want to hear it.

  37. 37

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bannon-on-the-outs rumor, has been floated again and again, he just sits right there though. He is Rove to T’s W. He is going nowhere.

  38. 38
    A Ghost to Not says:

    Thanks for this, Adam.

    Good to know that my thinking on this is not out of line with yours.

    Rump is a symptom of a much larger problem: “conservatism” (revanchism).

  39. 39
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bystander: The person behind that twitter feed is doing yeoman’s work getting good images of the alt-right folks at the events – both tiki torch vigil and yesterday’s protest and rally – and get identifications on them. We’ve got several College Republican leaders, the guy who has already been fired, etc. You’re going to see a lot of people losing their jobs, being expelled for violating student honor codes, etc. There will be whining and claims of victimization, but one of the advantages of this stuff going on in 2017 is that social media makes it impossible for these folks to hide from the consequences of their behavior. It is, perhaps, the only good thing about right to work laws – companies can and will fire you if you do something to bring them negative publicity.

  40. 40
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jay C: I noticed that limp, struggling, downward-gazing delivery too. I rather expect that a lot of it had to do with the word “egregious,” which I would be surprised to find he’s ever used on his own. He doesn’t know how to project seriousness in a way that even a bumbling doofus like George W. Bush could manage when necessary. Trump only has two gears in public speaking, Angry and Insulting.

  41. 41
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    At some point I would expect a joint statement from at least President Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama as the still living presidents.

    Each or all of them (and HRC) could specifically condemn the Nazis by name, without mentioning the alleged “president” or the maladministration.
    Rational people know he in effect gave the assholes permission; it’s not necessary to condemn him. The implication is clear.

  42. 42
    Kay says:

    All I can say is the Trump Family better get a handle on their supporters- their “base”- because their supporters were energized and inspired by the President’s cowardice and claim to be “at war”- probably bullshit- they’re not the fittest or most able soldiers judging from the photos I saw- but that is what they promised. A “war”.

    The Trump Family ran a really effective racist campaign to get elected. Maybe they could turn all that talent to reining in the troops. They don’t need to lecture the country. They need to meet with their base.

  43. 43
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Where’d that rumor come from the lick spittle NYT ?

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @A Ghost to Not: I am happy to confirm your notions!

  45. 45
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Firing him would be a surrender in the mind of the Dominance Ape, and nobody ever really leaves the trump orbit, except Tiffany. Da Mooch is now a free-lancer who, I would bet a good chunk of change, has trump’s cell number, and has gotten at least one call from that cell in the last week. And I’d bet a bit more that the people he does business with know that for a fact. He was on the Stephanopolous show today, for some reason. (edited for clarity)

  46. 46
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    At some point I would expect a joint statement from at least President Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama as the still living presidents.

    Bush 41 is also still alive. No reason he, too, couldn’t/wouldn’t affix his name to such a statement.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    A juxtaposition: Charlottesville VA

    Baton Rouge LA

    There’s something different between these pics, I just can’t quite put my finger on it.

  48. 48
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hillary gave a whole alt-right speech and the “deplorables” remark was a crystallization of the whole phenomenon: not ALL Trump supporters are disgusting hateful people but a lot of them are, and that’s who he’s playing to, and that’s who he’s counting on to show up.

  49. 49
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @FlipYrWhig: He wears, or is supposed to wear, reading glasses. It has been repeatedly reported that he refuses to wear them when anyone else is around, especially if he’s on TV or is going to be photographed. And it has also been widely reported that he doesn’t read a lot to begin with. Combine those two things with him likely being upset that his feel good, legislative signing ceremony with veterans in attendance got side tracked because of what happened in Charlottesville and he was feeling frustrated and petulant.

  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Axios. Jonathon Swann’s reporting.

  51. 51
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: and a WWII vet. I’m guessing none of this plays well with the Old Man (not painting him with a halo– I remember Willie Horton, the “Pledge of Allegiance” demagoguery, “card-carrying member of the ACLU”, the Weinberg pardon….)

  52. 52
    Zach says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Bush 41 is still alive. No reason he, too, couldn’t/wouldn’t affix his name to such a statement.

    Would be good to see a statement from Bob Dole… famously denounced GOP racism and less-famously played a HUGE role along with Manafort in convincing key GOP constituencies to enthusiastically back Trump.

  53. 53
    El Caganer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Hmm. From ‘deplorable’ to ‘unemployable.’ Perhaps the start of a trend.

  54. 54
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    How are these people formed? I mean, by about second grade, don’t most children have a sense of true fairness, some sense of sympathy for other people? They may not act with sympathy, but such feelings are there, aren’t they?

    How do you become an adult and be so hateful, fearful, stupid?

  55. 55
    sloan says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump is technically President but so what? He’s no leader. Everyone knows he’s a piece of shit including the Republicans who are freaking out all over TV right now.

    Fuck him. Fuck traditional courtesies that previous Presidents have enjoyed.

    Everyone says “THIS IS NOT NORMAL” and then keeps trying to push back against his fascist goons with normal political responses.

    When I saw Obama tweeting a Nelson Mandela quote yesterday I was just floored. Inspirational tweets aren’t gonna cut it these days.

  56. 56
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Last I heard, Jimmy Carter and George Herbert Walker Bush were also still living. But I do agree that the former POTUSes need to be cautious what they say about the current one.

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: And so is Carter, but they’re both way up there in age and dealing with significant age related health issues. Hence the “at least” part of my comment.

  58. 58
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Here’s the full video of “Don’t Be A Sucker.” Thanks to Mnemosyne for encouraging me to look it up.

  59. 59
    CaseyL says:

    I remember when Bannon joined Trump’s campaign. The campaign was doing very badly, and when Bannon-of-Breitbart was hired, the initial reaction was one of hilarity, because Breitbart is to journalism what anti-vaxxers are to healthcare. No one thought he brought much of a constituency with him.

    But Bannon organized and strengthened Trump’s connection to America’s fascists. Bannon was the one who made those connections through the dark money/fascist networks, while Manafort, Flynn and Sessions were forging connections with Putin and his disinformation apparatus.

    IOW, Bannon was materially important in getting Trump the nomination, if not the Presidency. No way will Trump abandon him.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yep, the woman is the textbook example of bravery. She’s also stunning. The guy with the tiki torch is someone who looks like Jared.

  61. 61
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Zach: one of the under-discussed bizarre moments of the last campaign, I always thought there was a core of decency under the snarling partisanship.

  62. 62
    Yarrow says:

    @Jay C: I watched Chuckles the Todd’s Sunday show today to get a feel for how the media is treating the events in Charlottesville. I saw that guy. He was creepy. Looked very uncomfortable being there and rolled his eyes all around before finally saying he condemns Nazis and white supremacists. He looked just like a kid made to apologize to their brother or sister for hitting them. “Dumb Chuck Todd is making me say I condemn white supremacists. You know I don’t mean it.”

  63. 63
    El Caganer says:

    @efgoldman: Isn’t Jimmy Carter still around?

  64. 64
    Another Scott says:

    Great video and comments.

    Something else he said yesterday doesn’t seem to be getting as much attention as I think it should.

    “What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives.”

    (emphasis added)

    He said during the campaign – in the context of things like the killing of 5 police officers in Dallas after a protest against the police killings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota – that he was the “law and order candidate”. Calling himself that is fine, as far as it goes, but it too is a dog-whistle meant to bring back thought’s of Nixon’s War on Crime. It’s not about protecting the innocent – he doesn’t think counter-protesters or protesters against his policies are innocent, it’s about ramping up police powers to try to control politically-marginal groups. It’s a way of “othering” to try to gain more power.

    Nothing Donnie says can be taken at face value. Just about all of it is playing to the worst parts of our politics. It’s dangerous, it’s not normal, and we need to work every day to end it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dude, I know they called him out back then.

    I’m talking about NOW.

    They are the closest thing we’ve got to leaders in the Democratic party. I’d like to see them roll up their sleeves and get back in the fight.

    Who else is gonna do it and command the nation’s attention like they could?

  66. 66
    NotMax says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while)

    HINOs.

    (The H stands for human.)

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Here is President Bush’s (41) remarks on David Duke:

  68. 68
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    If Obama would just say X (loudly!), then The People would rise up and _____________

    Choose your own adventure emoproggery

    ETA: @Adam L Silverman: also resigned from LaPierre’s NRA. Like McCain, Dole, Collins, Snowe, who knows who else, there’s a core of decency in these people that they allow to be buried in partisanship. If they wanted to, they could live up to their reputations. Except Dole, I remain flummoxed by that one.

  69. 69
    Chyron HR says:

    @sloan:

    Good news, Secretary Clinton has issued the only statement the country deserves from her.

  70. 70
  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @Chyron HR: Exactly this.

  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Ever read Lord of the Flies? Spent time in an elementary, middle, or high school lunch room? Children are natural fascists if left to their own devices. The purpose of a functioning society is to beat that out of them

  73. 73
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, no I didn’t say that.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Usually stated after Obama had just said X.

  75. 75
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    The thing that I am currently chewing over about Trump is his lack of cynicism. People like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions will say whatever is necessary. Do any of us believe his last night’s statement? Tempting to, but I’m reserving judgment. We know that politiicans, in particular but by no means solely, are willing to sound reasonable to mask unreasonable views. But Trump isn’t.

    I concur with the observations above about his reading his statement like a little boy forced to write on the blackboard “I believe in the equality of all people.” It really is repugnant to him to speak in contradiction of some of his beliefs or friendships.

  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: Hence my writing “at least” of the still living presidents.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    not ALL Trump supporters are disgusting hateful people

    Based on what facts do you assert that? I mean, they are OK with a disgusting hateful person in the White House.

  78. 78
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Excellent, I’ll swap that out up top.

  79. 79
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Trump is a child. Cynicism requires some level of adult thinking.

  80. 80
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    @Amir Khalid:

    I was just coming back to comment “How could I forget Carter?!?!?!” Yes, they are both in their 90s,* but Carter, at least, still helps build houses and regularly does panels and town halls and other public events, both in Plains and at The Carter Center in Atlanta, and maybe elsewhere. He’s not the least bit shy about sharing his views. As for GHWB, he might not be up to a public appearance, but I’ll bet he’d be willing to be a signatory to a joint statement.

    *And for that matter, and by reason of their age, they are the only living former Presidents who actually, literally fought the (original) Nazis.

  81. 81
    Thoughtful David says:

    It’s not just “domestic terrorism.” Call it what it is:

    White Christian terrorism

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: In the Deplorables speech, only half of his supporters were deplorable. The other half were deserving of empathy. You can decide for yourself whether Hillary’s formula still holds.

  83. 83
    Jay C says:

    @Yarrow:

    I agree: I didn’t see Bossert’s interview, but even just reading the text (Thanks again, Adam) the insincerity was just oozing out of him – typical Trump White House hire….

  84. 84
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Thaddeu: Makes you wonder how they stay in business in Berkeley, CA.

  85. 85
    Ruckus says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Tomorrow they will vote the way they always have, fuck them.

    They won’t vote on anything about this or any other hate crime, bigotry or anything remotely applicable or in any way fostering the responsibility to the republican party.
    Oh, you mean they will still vote to end healthcare, tax cuts, etc.

  86. 86
    Ken Pidcock says:

    Rather he is now the infection vector, the patient zero…

    Please, never, ever, use the language of infectious disease to confront political opponents. It is a traditional trope of fascists. Let them be recognized by it.

  87. 87
    debbie says:

    @NotMax:

    Relocate them to the entrances of town dumps everywhere.

  88. 88
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Thoughtful David: I did a post on this about a month or so ago.

  89. 89
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: I have been saying for some time that voting for trump didn’t mean one was an ignorant racist POS, it just meant one was OK with an ignorant racist POS in the White House. There is a difference, just not much of one.

  90. 90
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ken Pidcock: I was aware of this before I wrote the post.

  91. 91
    debbie says:

    @Jay C:

    Also, consider lousy eye-sight, combined with a vanity that doesn’t permit reading glasses.

  92. 92
    oldgold says:

    When Trump announced his cadidacy, I remembered Maya Angelou’s sage advice.

    “When someone shows you who they are, believe them; the first time.”

    Too many did not do so. As a consequence, we are reaping this bitter harvest. I fear worse lies ahead.

  93. 93
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: There is a difference, just not much of one.

    exactly, I forget who, while I was watching on MSNBC this morning, was making a distinction between racist politicians and politicians who are willing to exploit racism to win, (they probably said “not lose”) votes. Like, again, Poppy Bush.

  94. 94
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I see no reason why Jimmy Carter and George HW Bush couldn’t add their signatures to a statement criticising President Trump. It’s not physically taxing, and as far as I know, they are both still mentally alert.

  95. 95
    Ruckus says:

    @Mike in NC:

    They simply cannot accept that the man is an idiot.

    They enabled him. They may have voted for him. They were duped by an obnoxious, spoiled 4 yr old brat. Admit they were wrong?

  96. 96
    JPL says:

    @CaseyL: If firing Bannon helps Trump, he’ll do it. Trump only has loyalty to himself.

  97. 97
    bystander says:

    What we don’t need now are false memes about Melania. Just gives the kooks reasons to whine.

  98. 98

    @Adam L Silverman: President’s Carter and HW Bush would like a word with you. “We’re NOT DEAD!”

  99. 99
    Zach says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    one of the under-discussed bizarre moments of the last campaign, I always thought there was a core of decency under the snarling partisanship.

    I heard this Dole interview on an NPR re-broadcast on the armed forces network and was pretty shocked that Dole was all-in on trying to normalize Trump and appeared to be playing a very big role in intra-GOP outreach.

    http://www.npr.org/2016/06/10/.....-dole-says

    Of course, Dole was later in the news for having similarly odd Russian connections like Manafort. Bannon really lucked out having Manafort/Dole and Conaway save the Trump campaign so he could get rich off their coat-tails.

  100. 100
    Kay says:

    @Chyron HR:

    “Hillary Clinton was right” should be the theme of 2017. I didn’t listen to the famous “they’re alt right and alt right are Nazi’s” speech but she certainly nailed that one.

    I can’t get over that they dress like Trump. That they consider his golfing attire a kind of insane Nazi uniform, a secret handshake. Not so secret anymore.

  101. 101
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    at least President Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama as the still living presidents

    What part of the at least didn’t you all get? I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in this conversation to have worked for President Carter. I know he’s still alive.

  102. 102
    Yarrow says:

    @Jay C: The text doesn’t begin to capture his facial expressions. When he finally felt forced to denounce white supremacism it was clear he didn’t mean it. The eye-rolling and eye-darting was something else.

    Outside of that, before I heard him say much I thought he looked like he was straight out of central casting for “evil Nazi” in a movie.

  103. 103
    Zach says:

    So why is Trump not tweeting today? Either he figured out he needs to fire Bannon/Miller to survive this and has no one left to write for him or he decided to squeeze in two rounds in a day.

  104. 104
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    It should be.

    She was right about Trump and Putin.
    She was right about Trump and nuclear weapons.
    She was right about Trump and the alt right.

    But it won’t be because too many people have adopted Hillary Hate as a cultural identity marker.

  105. 105
    NotMax says:

    @Kay

    “What? Brownshirts? I thought you said clownshirts.”

  106. 106
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Zach:

    So why is Trump not tweeting today? Either he figured out he needs to fire Bannon/Miller to survive this and has no one left to write for him or he decided to squeeze in two rounds in a day.

    Because even he is smart enough not to dig a hole deeper after yesterday? He fucked up big time with that “many sides” and “best regards” shit.

    A young (white) woman was killed by a neo-nazi and Trump tried to All Lives Matter it. Oh and state police may very have been killed by same neo-nazi dbags. That makes it even worse.

  107. 107
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Ain’t it the truth.

  108. 108
    Mike in NC says:

    @Zach: About the time Bob Dole ran against Bill Clinton, someone wrote a book called “Senator For Sale”. He spent his entire career as a shameless money hustler, as did his spouse Elizabeth Dole. When Dole finally retired he claimed he’d go home to Kansas, but instead remained in his condo at the Watergate.

  109. 109
    Karen says:

    After reading comments by David Duke and others am reminded of the parable of the camel, who just wanted his nose in the tent. Every time there is a failure to condemn, when people in power are complicit; the Klan, Nazis, christian terrorists, white supremacists take this as permission and the next time will go further.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    It’s just so crazy. The President of this College Republicans club is an actual Nazi.

    These are the young ‘uns. The up and comers in official Party orgs. Incredibly, it will get worse.

    I don’t even know how they regulate this. Page 33 of the College Republicans rule book- you cannot belong to both the College Republicans and the “Nazi Party”? How do they “clean house”? I mean, right now they have photographs of people but how will they know?

  111. 111

    @Baud: Children don’t know any better, a 70 year old does not have that excuse. Besides they are much cuter.

  112. 112
    Ruckus says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    How do you become an adult and be so hateful, fearful, stupid?

    It takes effort on someone’s part. Parents play a role. Some have more than their share of hate and fear and pass it on with vigor, Stupid may be a little harder, to get to this level you have to work at it. And not everyone who acts this stupid actually is. But hold my beer and watch this is not a rare concept and many people work hard at perfecting the concept, even if they aren’t beer drinkers. Add in constant hate speech and the reality of being a worker bee for decades, either ahead of or behind you in a world of people who have the kind of money you will never even get a wiff of and it’s a pot that has and will continue to boil over. Just read history. BS wasn’t wrong about the inequality of the economy, he’s just way, way to simple about it.

  113. 113
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    at least President Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama as the still living presidents

    What part of the at least didn’t you all get? I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in this conversation to have worked for President Carter. I know he’s still alive.

    Adam, it wasn’t the at least, it was the definite article: the still living presidents.

    And while I have not worked directly for President Carter, I have worked with him on several occasions.

  114. 114
    Yarrow says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    state police may very have been killed by same neo-nazi dbags.

    What? Is there evidence of this?

  115. 115
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kay:

    These are the young ‘uns. The up and comers in official Party orgs. Incredibly, it will get worse.

    Yup, it looks like the GOP is well on its way to becoming a white identity, fascist party. As I’ve said before, fear the future.

  116. 116

    @Adam L Silverman:

    as the still living presidents

    That implies that any other folk that have been President are dead.

    ETA: That’s nice that you’ve done work for President Carter, I voted for him.

  117. 117
    trollhattan says:

    The Charlottsville organizer tried to give an outdoor presser and got run out of the joint.

    I’d like to see a metric crapton of civil suits rain down upon everybody involved in this event. Money, they understand.

  118. 118
    Brachiator says:

    And we want to see what we’re doing wrong as a country, where things like this can happen.

    What the ever freaking fuck. I have stayed away from commenting much on this, or even reading about it. It alternately has me feeling rage and sadness.

    But it almost sounds as though Trump is suggesting that we need to feel empathy for racists and to try to understand what we have done wrong to upset them.

    Sympathy indeed, for the devil.

    Trump is a fool and a bigot. Fucking asshole.

  119. 119
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Yarrow: None yet, other than we know the helicopter was related to the rally somehow.

    Don’t think it’ll happen either. The cops were positively deferent to the Nazis. Cant imagine the Nazis would go after them to the extent of trying to bring down a helicopter.

  120. 120

    @Baud:

    She was right about Trump and Putin.
    She was right about Trump and nuclear weapons.
    She was right about Trump and the alt right…

    …but her emails!

  121. 121
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Fucking tweeted screen shots annoy me

    Joshua Green‏Verified account @ JoshuaGreen 22h22 hours ago
    Trump came under pressure to condemn alt-right racism during the campaign and refused. In my book, Bannon explained why –>

    the explanation: “We polled the race stuff and it doesn’t matter,” he said in late September,” it doesn’t move anyone who isn’t already in her camp”

  122. 122
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Yarrow: No, but I swore I saw an AP article saying the two were somehow linked. It’s a little suspicious to say the least, as neighbors saw the heli hover low to some houses then fly over to woods before crashing outside town.

  123. 123
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Yarrow:

    state police may very have been killed by same neo-nazi dbags.

    What? Is there evidence of this?

    Well, indirectly, yeah. The state police were on their way to respond to the fatal car incident, so arguably the guy who plowed his vehicle into the crowd was responsible. Probably no direct enough to be a chargeable offense (IANAL). I don’t think anyone is suggesting that their chopper was shot down, though, if that’s what you were thinking.

  124. 124
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: the press has been linking those deaths to the activity in Charlotte that I am not entirely comfortable with

  125. 125
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Don’t think it’ll happen either. The cops were positively deferent to the Nazis. Cant imagine the Nazis would go after them to the extent of trying to bring down a helicopter.

    The local PD were. Don’t know about state authorities. It may not happen, yes

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: She should have put her warnings in emails and leaked then.

  127. 127
    Ruckus says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    a 70 year old does not have that excuse

    I don’t think anyone here is excusing drumpf. Explaining him, yes, excusing him, no.
    He does after all seem to have the maturity of a 4 yr old and that has given him the inability to learn as an as a normal adult would. And while he may not be alone in his development as a 70 yr old, he sure isn’t normal, in any sense of the word.

  128. 128

    @Baud: Ain’t that the truth.

  129. 129
    Another Scott says:

    Great video (which seems to have changed from recognizing fascists to “Don’t be a Sucker” (?)), and comments.

    Something else he said yesterday doesn’t seem to be getting as much attention as I think it should.

    “What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives.”

    (emphasis added)

    He said during the campaign – in the context of things like the killing of 5 police officers in Dallas after a protest against the police killings of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and Philando Castile in Falcon Heights, Minnesota – that he was the “law and order candidate”. Calling himself that is fine, as far as it goes, but it too is a dog-whistle meant to bring back thought’s of Nixon’s War on Crime. It’s not about protecting the innocent – he doesn’t think counter-protesters or protesters against his policies are innocent, it’s about ramping up police powers to try to control politically-marginal groups. It’s a way of “othering” to try to gain more power.

    Nothing Donnie says can be taken at face value. Just about all of it is playing to the worst parts of our politics. It’s dangerous, it’s not normal, and we need to work every day to end it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130
    Another Scott says:

    Bah. My comments are going in the dungeon again…

    Help? Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I see what you’re saying, but I do like that it’s hurting Trump’s image and the nazis.

  132. 132
    patrick II says:

    In 2009 a government counterterrorism analyst at Homeland Security named Daryl Johnson wrote a the rise of “Right Wing Extremism”. You many remember that Republican members of congress were outraged at the thought of a study on right-wing terrorism and further outraged that it was suggested that those groups should be more closely monitored. So the study was suppressed and no additional agents or resources were assigned to investigate or monitor our burgeoning fascist cancer.
    The Republican senators and congressmen were largely silent during the rise of the new fascism; making sure that the law allowed them to have any assault weapon their fervid fantasies could dream of, to suppress the report calling for more agents and more monitoring of right wing groups, and finally, allowing and then supporting (with just enough reluctance from some as a soft denial of their own participation in fascism)its I new national leader.
    So for me, all of this Republican false commiseration about the events at Charlottesville move me little. They are still at work to suppress voting rights of minorities, obstruct any gun law that interferes with building fascist militia, a Republican congress will still works towards killing healthcare, or pay raises, or unions, or anything else that might take this country out of its right wing death spiral. If Senator Hatch truly wants to honor his dead brother, he may want to say more than a few empty, if heartfelt, words, he may want to stop for a moment and reflect upon where the policies he so vehemently supports are taking the country. But he won’t. So I take their expressions of sympathy, knowing it is a shadow show, and continue to do what (not enough) I can to work against them and what they stand for.
    And, as David Anderson described last night in his post “Kids these days”, the real heroes, the ones who give me hope, of Charlottesville are the young people facing the guns and billie clubs of violent sociopaths with only their determination, their bodies, and sadly, the at risk of their lives.

  133. 133
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Well his approval rate is just below forty percent, so I’d say she’s wrong. It appears to be closer to seventy-five percent, maybe higher.

  134. 134
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @patrick II:

    And, as David Anderson described last night in his post “Kids these days”, the real heroes of Charlottesville are the young people facing the guns and billie clubs of violent sociopaths with only thein determination, their bodies, and sadly, the risk of their lives.

    Snowflakes they certainly weren’t

  135. 135
    Ruckus says:

    @patrick II:
    Agreed. All of it.

  136. 136
    Yarrow says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes, that is what the original comment sounded like–that the helicopter had been shot down or somehow the Nazis were directly responsible for it crashing. If it’s just, “they wouldn’t have been in the sky if not for the Nazi march” then that’s not quite the same thing.

  137. 137
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Yarrow: I guess I might have been misremembering.

  138. 138
    sloan says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:These fascists threw out the rule book a long time ago. It feels like we’re not even fighting back sometimes because our attempts to stop this have been so ineffective.

    2015: Trump is a clown! Wait him out and things will go back to normal after the primaries.

    2016: Ok, so he’s the GOP candidate. But just wait for the election! He can’t win, so things will go back to normal after November.

    2017: D’oh! Ok, so he’s the President. But hey, he’ll get impeached or quit or something. Just be patient, and the system will take care of it.

    Meanwhile, white supremacy has flourished like never before in my lifetime. I have no confidence that our political leaders are truly up to the task of fighting these fascists. It’s like they don’t believe it’s real.

    Or they think if we can just patiently wait for Trump to go away then it all goes back to normal.

  139. 139
    Baud says:

    @Yarrow: If it’s just, “they wouldn’t have been in the sky if not for the Nazi march” then that’s not quite the same thing.

    It’s not, but I think that’s how the media counts event-related deaths. God knows that if it had been a peaceful liberal protest, a cop suffering a heart attack at a nearby Dunkin Donuts would have been counted as one of victims.

  140. 140

    @Thaddeu: Top Dog has it’s
    wallls plastered with weird archnarchist/libertarian posters and manifestos* long before I went to Berkeley 30’years ago. Not sure the employees buy into it (over the years I’ve seen various POC working there), but the owner(s) is definitely a crank.

    * As much as one can cover the inside of a small hot dog shack.

  141. 141
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @patrick II: And, as David Anderson described last night in his post “Kids these days”, the real heroes, the ones who give me hope, of Charlottesville are the young people facing the guns and billie clubs of violent sociopaths with only their determination, their bodies, and sadly, the at risk of their lives.

    just watched a clip of our only president’s national security adviser (Bossert, whatever the hell his title is) saying these were people looking for trouble just like the self-described Nazis.

  142. 142
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @sloan:

    It’s like they don’t believe it’s real.

    Oh, horseshit.

  143. 143
    Kay says:

    Weimer said that he taught Fields during his junior and senior years at Randall K. Cooper High School in Kentucky. In a class called “America’s Modern Wars,” Weimer said that Fields wrote a deeply researched paper about the Nazi military during World War II.
    “It was obvious that he had this fascination with Nazism and a big idolatry of Adolf Hitler,” Weimer said. “He had white supremacist views. He really believed in that stuff.”
    Fields’s research project into the Nazi military was well written, Weimer said, but it appeared to be a “big lovefest for the German military and the Waffen-SS.”
    James Alex Fields Jr. has been charged with second degree murder after he allegedly drove his car into a crowd of protesters in Charlottesville.
    As a teacher, Weimer highlighted historical facts, not just opinion, in an unsuccessful attempt to steer Fields away from his infatuation with the Nazis.
    “This was something that was growing in him,” Weimer said. “I admit I failed. I tried my best. But this is definitely a teachable moment and something we need to be vigilant about, because this stuff is tearing up our country.”

    He sounds like a good teacher and he’s taking way too much responsibility for “failing” to persuade Mr. Nazi, but the “provide them with facts versus opinions” just never seems to work. Maybe it does work. We wouldn’t be hearing about the less committed Nazi youth who the teacher did persuade, so there’s that.

  144. 144
    Chris says:

    @efgoldman:

    I disagree. The President’s role in publicizing this bullshit contributed hugely to the disaster we saw yesterday, and it needs to be called out by name.

    Sure, rational people know that this is partly his fault, but as Adlai Stevenson may or may not have said, that doesn’t make a majority. Trump and his supporters are going to be hard at work claiming that it’s terribly unfair and slanderous to link him to these people, and plenty of people are going to want to support that claim. That message needs to be rejected and pushed back against, hard.

  145. 145
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sloan: Meanwhile, white supremacy has flourished like never before in my lifetime

    How old are you? and what “effective” solution are you looking for, beyond having Obama or Clinton do some performative anger for you?

  146. 146
    Aimai says:

    @sloan: when your enemy is drowning: throw him an anvil. Trump thrives on being the standard bearer of victims of women and black people.

  147. 147
  148. 148
    Baud says:

    Demsaredoingitwrongism is an important subset of Whataboutism.

  149. 149
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Yarrow:

    Well, as far as I can tell, officials are still investigating the cause of the crash. I expect we’ll find out in due course. if the media are trying to connect dots that may not even be there, that’s pretty irresponsible. (Yeah, I know….)

  150. 150
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Not a huge Jake Tapper fan, but I didn’t make this now obvious point, and I haven’t seen anyone else do it wither

    Jake Tapper‏Verified account @ jaketapper 37m37 minutes ago
    He held an entire event in Long Island about MS-13.Jake Tapper added,

    The HillVerified account @ thehill
    Trump aide: Trump didn’t call out white supremacists because he didn’t want to dignify them

    ETA: and as Republicans and Villagers rush to condemn trump, I’d like to remind them that Ronna Romney McDaniel hired a fairly obscure and not very bright cable TV guest as an official Republican spokeswoman precisely because she’s a birther and trump-apologist

  151. 151
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: True enough.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, probably some media made a connection that has yet to be shown to be there, if it ever is.

  152. 152
    raven says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: From my pal Pat Lang in reference to Charlottesville”

    The whole CNN “crew,” John King, Jake Tapper, Fariid Zakariya and their colleagues elsewhere are virtually foaming at the mouth in a competition to be the most extreme, the most condemning, the most hostile toward traditional American culture.

  153. 153
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I was never much of a Tapper fan either, but like Jen Rubin and a couple of others, he seems to have improved greatly during the past, oh, six and a half months or so.

  154. 154
    frosty fred says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think “of” the still living presidents would have been more clear.

    ETA: or as BillinGlendale said.

  155. 155

    @raven: Your pal cannot even be bothered to spell Fareed Zakaria’s name correctly.

  156. 156
    Brachiator says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    …but her emails!.

    Given all the craziness we are going through, from threats of nuclear destruction to the normalization of white nationalism, I almost want to say that this is weak, obsolete snark.

    And then I read that some Republicans in Congress still want to investigate further on this and possibly prosecute Clinton.

  157. 157
    efgoldman says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Based on what facts do you assert that? I mean, they are OK with a disgusting hateful person in the White House.

    :::ahem::: They willfully voted for a racist, anti-semitic, hateful bag of pigshit. That makes them what they voted for.

    Fuckem

  158. 158
    Another Scott says:

    Reuters story on Heather Heyer – the woman killed in Charlottesville yesterday.

    (Reuters) – Heather Heyer came to downtown Charlottesville with her friends to make a stand against white nationalists who converged on the Virginia college town to demand the city keep a statue honoring a Confederate war hero, her boss said on Sunday.

    The 32-year-old paralegal wanted to send a clear message to the neo-Nazis and Ku Klux Klan sympathizers who planned to stage one of the largest far-right rallies in recent U.S. history that people abhor their views in the city where she was born, he said.

    But her decision to join counter-protesters on Saturday resulted in tragedy when a 20-year-old Ohio man drove his car at high speed into a line of marchers, killing Heyer and injuring at least 19 others.

    A strong sense of social justice was a constant theme in Heyer’s personal and working life, said Alfred Wilson, bankruptcy division manager at the Miller Law Group.

    “There have been times that I’ve walked back to her office and she had tears in her eyes” for various injustices she saw in the world, said Wilson, such as the time she was weeping after reading anti-Muslim comments online, Wilson said.

    Heyer was “a very strong, very opinionated young woman” who “made known that she was all about equality,” he told Reuters on Sunday.

    […]

    We can’t get discouraged. We have to keep fighting, like she did, to make the world a better place.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  159. 159
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “Performative anger”?

    Jim. Those two are the most prominent, credible leaders the Democrats or any Anti-Trump movement has right now. Sorry. Wish that wasn’t the case, but here we are.

    If anyone could fill their shoes and take the fight to them the way Republicans have done to us all these years I’d love it. And I’ll campaign and vote for them too.

  160. 160
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

    weak, obsolete snark

    No, that’s the country’s epitaph if we don’t prevail. It will never go out of style.

  161. 161
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @raven: Wow.

  162. 162
  163. 163
    efgoldman says:

    @Ken Pidcock:

    never, ever, use the language of infectious disease to confront political opponents.

    Christ on a melba toast – the tone police!

    ETA: Do not recall seeing this nym before, either.

  164. 164
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Jay C:

    1. Blaming the victim in Charlottesville (“they went looking for trouble”)

    “She was asking for it in that ‘Coexist’ T-shirt.”

    /snark

  165. 165
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Another Scott: To Kay’s point, good parenting, the little Nazi shit, not so much.

  166. 166
    efgoldman says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    There is a difference, just not much of one.

    Nope. By their votes shall ye know them. I cut them no fucking slack at all.
    They knew what they were doing, and they did it anyway. They are 150% complicit, every last fucking one of them.

    Fuckem

  167. 167
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sloan: you said you want them to make speeches, then you said you don’t think those speeches will change anything

    again: What do you want them, or anyone, to do? What does “the fight” look like to you? cause so far you sure as hell sound like an emo-prog fantasist.

  168. 168
    d58826 says:

    As I said in an earl;ier thread, the GOP is talking the talk, now it’s time for force them to walk the walk. The D;’s should put up a bill to re-implement the Voting rights act. Make it apply to all 50 states. Attach it to the debt limit negotiations. They need 60 votes in the Senate to raise the debt limit. No voting right bill then no debt limit vote.

  169. 169
  170. 170
    JPL says:

    Rumor has it that Manchin will leave the Senate in order to become Energy Secretary. If that is true, it says a lot about Manchin willing to see folks in his state who will lose health insurance die. If that is true, it says a lot about a person who would want to serve this administration.

  171. 171
    d58826 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: This actually came up as part of the MSNBC coverage last night. The anchor asked the reporter in the field if there was any suspicion of foul play. He said at the moment there was nothing to indicate that the chopper had been shot down. But just the fact that the question could even come up as being a reasonable possibility shows how far we have fallen.

  172. 172
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @d58826:

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

    ETA: Although I’m kind of surprised it wasn’t Don Lemon on CNN. That’s kind of his specialty, isn’t it?

  173. 173
    Brachiator says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    . I have been saying for some time that voting for trump didn’t mean one was an ignorant racist POS, it just meant one was OK with an ignorant racist POS in the White House.

    A good chunk of Trump voters are not just OK with a racist being in the White House. They expect him to be the president for white nationalism. They expect for him to pursue racist goals and to push for and sign legislation to achieve those goals. This was always present from the start. I could never understand why some refused to see this and ignore or downplay the overt racist element or Trump’s blatant appeal to this faction.

    And now, Trump voters who ignore this are giving aid and comfort to racists.

  174. 174
    sloan says:

    Ok@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I said this: “They need to go public, full speech, press conference etc. We need someone to be a President right now.

    Get out in front of Trump and show real leadership. Upstage that shitstain and who cares if it breaks with tradition.”

    And yeah, what they and everyone else has done so far has been milquetoast Tweets of Concern.

    But no, I don’t have a magic solution. Sorry if that frustrates you. You don’t have the solution either, buddy.

    I’m venting on Balloon Juice ffs. Don’t get all bent out of shape because I’m pissed at Democrats even though I am one myself. I think a catastrophic failure has occurred and calling for a change in direction is perfectly fine.

    No, I don’t know what that change should be. Do you?

  175. 175
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Basically, Trump thinks his own supporters don’t care if he’s racist at all and the media won’t push it, so he’s never going to apologize or attack the alt-right. In which Trump basically confirms Hillary’s “Deplorable” comment. Sigh.

  176. 176

    @d58826: Not the debt limit, Democrats have consistently said that the debt limit should be a clean bill. The Democrats should NEVER take the position of gaming the debt limit. The CR on the other hand is a perfect place to do this. There’s a huge difference between a government shutdown due to not having a CR and having the full faith and credit of the United States being questioned.

  177. 177
    d58826 says:

    @Jay C: I listened to it. It was almost like he was saying ‘ok I’ll say fascist if you stop badgering me about it’ It had all of the sincerity of the 4 year saying he would never sneak into the cookie jar again.

  178. 178
    Kay says:

    @Tenar Arha:

    Thanks. That’s interesting. I almost don’t have the vocabulary for why she bothers me so much- her role- not “her”- I have no freaking idea what she’s actually like. I know it’s manipulative and false but I don’t know specifically why it is.

    It bothered me the minute it started- “Ivanka is the human side of daddy”- and maybe that’s why, because it’s a traditional dodge for powerful men.

    Trump’s coldness doesn’t get enough attention. There’s something really empty about him. Political media explain it away with he’s “self centered” or “has no historical sense” but it’s worse than that. Selfish people can have good aspects. He’s just..vacant.

  179. 179
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @JPL:

    Rumor has it that Manchin will leave the Senate in order to become Energy Secretary. If that is true, it says a lot about Manchin willing to see folks in his state who will lose health insurance die. If that is true, it says a lot about a person who would want to serve this administration.

    Yes, and if that is true it also says a lot about the recent timing of the WV Gov’s decision to change parties. Smells to high heaven of a backroom deal.

  180. 180
    d58826 says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Ok, I can go with that. I don’t like holding the DL hostage but if it forces to GOP to chose maybe it would be worth it. The GOP knows the D’s will never pull the trigger on the DL so it may be a hollow bluff but have to get these blowhards on the record somehow. If the CR will do it then go for it.

  181. 181
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @JPL: Seriously, who WANTS to be part of this administrative shit-show? Especially when it’s clear Trump will just have someone fire you 6 months later while he hides in his office.

    That’s on top of the evil of possibly letting Trump and the Republicans rescind health insurance for millions. If Manchin takes this, he’s much worse than any of us thought.

  182. 182
    BillCinSD says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    *And for that matter, and by reason of their age, they are the only living former Presidents who actually, literally fought the (original) Nazis.

    Carter did not literally fight the original Nazis. He was in college during WW2, and graduated from The Naval Academy in 1946.

  183. 183
    Mary G says:

    As long as these Republicans who are making these commendable statements explicitly condemning white supremacists are engaging in vote suppression of POC and Democrats, they are completely without credibility.

  184. 184
    aimai says:

    On our way to a vigil down on the Boston Common. Wish I had not taken today to drink 100 oz of water! We’ll see how long I last out there, vigiling, in the absence of good bathrooms.

  185. 185
    George Spiggott says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    And true to greedy libertarianism, when the owner(s) attempted to franchise TOP DOG throughout the East Bay (pleasant Hill, San Ramon, etc.), they wouldn’t even let the franchisees use the most valuable asset: the local goodwill associated with the TOP DOG name. TOP DOG is beloved by many CAL student/alumni, and also a place where many visiting fans eat before games. The franchise locations had to go by DOG OUT ( an idiotic play on a baseball dugout). Of course, they failed in short order.

    -Brother Golden Bear

  186. 186
    El Caganer says:

    @raven: I learn something new every day. I was not aware that Nazism was part of traditional American culture.

  187. 187
    Lulymay says:

    @NotMax:

    Good one!

  188. 188
  189. 189

    @BillCinSD: Technically, HW didn’t literally fight the Nazi’s either; he was in the Pacific theater.

  190. 190
    raven says:

    @El Caganer: His twisted point is that the “borg media” it trying to make it such. There’s a reason I lobbied to get him taken off the blogroll for almost 2 years before Cole finally 86d him.

  191. 191
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @MisterForkbeard: Manchin has been a pretty loyal Dem since the election. I am not going to call him a turncoat based on a rumor that keeps popping up randomly. There is a journalist on Twitter (name escapes me at the moment) who raises this possibility every chance he gets.

  192. 192
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sloan:Where is Obama or Hillary?

    They need to go public, full speech, press conference etc. We need someone to be a President right now.

    Get out in front of Trump and show real leadership. Upstage that shitstain and who cares if it breaks with tradition. That ship has sailed.

    you seem to think they can change things with speeches or breaking with tradition, you want (waaaahnt) a solution outside of political and Constitutional norms, and you seem to think it’s Obama and/or Clinton’s responsibility to execute– I want to know how that works.

    Get out in front of Trump and show real leadership’

    Your the Ron Fournier of emo-progs. “real leadership”! That sentence is in the imperative voice, you want them to do Something. I want to know what Something is.

  193. 193
  194. 194
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @BillCinSD:
    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Okay, thanks, both you California Bills. You are both right, and I stand corrected. Sorry.

  195. 195
    Mike in NC says:

    “It’s time to get rid of the statues and get rid of the alt-right heroes in the White House. As for Trump, the country cannot get rid of him soon enough.” – Jennifer Rubin, one of several pundits trashing the Manhattan Mussolini in today’s Washington Post

  196. 196
    Another Scott says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It doesn’t sound to me like Manchin is at all interested.

    A spokesman for Manchin declined to say whether the senator would take the Energy secretary job — currently held by former Texas Governor Rick Perry — if offered.

    “Senator Manchin has not had any recent conversations with the Administration about the Secretary of Energy position. He remains committed to serving the people of West Virginia,” said Jonathan Kott.

    Manchin, who faces a tough re-election battle in 2018, was considered for the post after Trump won election in November. His nomination fell through in part because Trump wouldn’t assure him he could pick his own staff, according to two people familiar with the staff selections, who described them on condition of anonymity.

    […]

    Yet to execute the idea and pass an Obamacare repeal, Republicans and the administration would have to pull off a highly choreographed series of events. Perry would have to agree to take another job, the Senate would have to confirm Manchin as Energy Secretary, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell would then have to bring a repeal bill back up without losing any of the 49 Republican senators who voted for the so-called skinny repeal.

    Some of those senators, however, like Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, said they were only voting for the bill to bring it to negotiations with the House. Other Republicans, like Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, are working on a bipartisan fix.

    Moreover, Manchin would face intense pressure from fellow Democrats not to leave the Senate and bear some personal responsibility for a repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

    Manchin has said in interviews that he warned Trump personally that people in his state who gained insurance under the law don’t know who gave it to them, but would surely know who took it away.

    It sounds to me like the usual “are you running for President” type of question / speculation that reporters ask when they have nothing else to talk about and are desperately hoping for a “scoop”. I would be very, very surprised if Manchin left.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  197. 197
    El Caganer says:

    @raven: Yeah, I don’t go over to his place much any more. You can still find some interesting stuff on foreign affairs, but it seems that with anything having to do with domestic events and policy he goes right off the rails and over the cliff.

  198. 198
    Mnemosyne says:

    Talk about your first world problems — it looks like there are going to be pretty much continuous protests outside of LA City Hall from 2:00 to 7:00 today since they’re running back-to-back. I guess I don’t have to rush to get there right at 2:00 …

  199. 199
    JPL says:

    @Another Scott: I like your thinking. It will be interesting to see what the president’s big announcement tomorrow is. Maybe interesting is the wrong word.

  200. 200
    bystander says:

    Mayor Michael Signer has done very well. I’m glad to see yet another young Democrat step forward in a time of crisis.

  201. 201
    Jeffro says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Classic whataboutery. A propaganda techniques pioneered in the old Soviet Union

    Oh yes indeed.

    The next step is to ramp up on asking GOP officials: Putin on one side, Nazis on the other…what’s it going to take? Is this what you’ve become? Is this how you want to go down in history?

    And many thanks Adam for pointing out the dog whistles in all of Trumpov’s statements: folks, send notes to any & all media folks you know, tweet about it, get the word out.

  202. 202
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Another Scott:

    In this small world, it turns out that I know someone who is acquainted with one of the crash victims. Fortunately, she got away with a broken arm and some impressive bruises.

  203. 203
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have only ever heard or seen the rumour here at BJ. Obviously, I have no idea where it has any basis in truth. That’s why is made a point of picking up and using JPL’s qualifier “if that is true.”

    Agree Manchin has voted with his caucus, but I’ve always had a sense of him as a pretty squishy Democrat. But I don’t follow him closely and it would probably be better for John Cole or JRinWV to opine.

  204. 204
    bystander says:

    @Mike in NC: Another reason to hate Trump: He’s making me agree with Jennifer Rubin. Who said the bar cannot get lower?

  205. 205
    Yutsano says:

    @efgoldman: Concern. Noted. Duly.

  206. 206
    Chris says:

    @Brachiator:

    Given all the craziness we are going through, from threats of nuclear destruction to the normalization of white nationalism, I almost want to say that this is weak, obsolete snark.

    I would agree, except that only today I read a whiny “this is what happens when your only choices are two turds! The only winning move is not to play!” rant in response to something Trump said about North Korea. (Having mostly cleaned out my mini-feed of wingnuts, the most insufferable people remaining are professional centrists).

    Sadly, the snark is as spot-on as ever. There are probably millions of people in this country, be they emoprogs, disaffected Republicans, or professional centrists, who will never recognize their refusal to back a bog-standard center-left candidate against the most racist and least qualified presidential candidate we’ve had probably since the 1920s for the once-in-a-century catastrophic moral failure that it was.

  207. 207
  208. 208

    @bystander:

    Who said the bar cannot get lower?

    It can always go lower; say, agreeing with Bill Kristol.

  209. 209
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Get out in front of Trump and show real leadership

    To agree with you, I’d point out that Lemieux and some others at LGM dug up some ancient pol’s saying: “you get the leaders you deserve”. PBHO and HRC have done more than we could ask of them. Anything more they do, is a gift. They warned us repeatedly. They tried their best within the limits of the system, to fight this outcome. Now it’s on us.

  210. 210
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Chris:

    There are probably millions of people in this country, be they emoprogs, disaffected Republicans, or professional centrists, who will never recognize their refusal to back a bog-standard center-left candidate against the most racist and least qualified presidential candidate we’ve had probably since the 1920s for the once-in-a-century catastrophic moral failure that it was.

    Co-signed. I’ve been telling those people, “Well, you no longer have to wonder what you would have done when the Nazis took over.”

    But I’m kind of a jerk that way.

  211. 211
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Bloomberg reported on the rumor. As of now, it’s just a rumor.

  212. 212
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Chet Murthy: and if there were a “Democrats can just try this one weird trick…”, I’d be all for it, but there isn’t

  213. 213
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nope. I want them to fucking fight back and treat Republicans the way they’ve always been treated.

    Here’s a start: How about just one former Democratic President or nominee says “Donald Trump is racist.” Just straight up fucking say it out loud.

    Call that shit out. It’s literally the least they could do. Start with that. No sternly worded press release or emotional tweets.

    And none of this ” oh you’re emo-prog that won’t work Ron Fournier” (lol) nonsense. Please.

    I’m watching fucking Klansmen take off their hoods and march proudly alongside College Republicans and Nazis with torches and pitchforks in support of a Republican President. Accidentally watched a snuff film of a fascist murder a liberal in broad daylight yesterday and our President waffled and stood down and wouldn’t condemn it.

    So I’m pissed at what I’ve seen develop over the last couple of years, especially the last 6 months. It is self-evident that whatever has been done to prevent this from escalating has failed. Based on the last 2-5-10-20 years of shit from Republicans I have no faith whatsoever that the Democrats are really truly up to the task here. So I’d like them to try harder. Or find someone who will if our current crop of late 20th century politicians can’t adapt to 2017.

  214. 214
    Joe Falco says:

    @NotMax: yes, the Almighty Dollar

  215. 215

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 2016 was way too late. The time to begin was (at the latest) 1979; and nothing else should have been said at any moment since. That opportunity was missed and it will not come again.

  216. 216
    germy says:

    The President of this College Republicans club is an actual Nazi.

    These are the young ‘uns. The up and comers in official Party orgs. Incredibly, it will get worse.

    Once all the baby boomers die out, we'll be in good shape.

  217. 217
    Jay C says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Also: even though Sen. Manchin is way over against the starboard rail in the Dem caucus, that “tough re-election fight in 2018” sounds a tad dubious to me. Of course, Cole or any WV commenters might know better, but it doesn’t seem like he would really be in that much trouble. If the Trump regime is as toxic next year as it will probably be, running as a Dem (especially against G8d knows what sort of wingnut Republican) probably won’t be that much of a drag on his chances. Especially as keeping the coal-industry grift subsidies going is probably going to (still) be the main local issue next year in WV: support – whether from Dem. or Rep. – is going to be a given.

  218. 218
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    They would have been the Germans who shrugged their shoulders and went along with their business as Jews were thrown in ghettos and eventually taken away to be killed. “They probably did something to deserve it anyway.” Morally vacant people.

  219. 219
    sharl says:

    @Another Scott, @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Heather Heyer’s mother did an interview – relatively short and (obviously) sad, but also sweet and inspirational:

    Mother Of Charlottesville Victim Heather Heyer: ‘I’m Proud Of What She Did’

  220. 220
    Baud says:

    Holy cow. I finally saw that video on the top of the page. “America is minorities.” Awesome

    And we need to get the Freemasons on board with the Resistance ASAP.

  221. 221
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @sloan:

    So I’d like them to try harder. Or find someone who will if our current crop of late 20th century politicians can’t adapt to 2017.

    I’m not sure I agree with your assertion that current Dems are not up to the task, but there will always be new, fresh, younger faces to replace them

  222. 222
    Yarrow says:

    @bystander:

    Mayor Michael Signer has done very well. I’m glad to see yet another young Democrat step forward in a time of crisis.

    Agreed! I saw him interviewed on some news show and he was great.

  223. 223
    Mnemosyne says:

    @sloan:

    Serious question: what are you doing to fight, other than bitching about other people on the Internet?

    I’m heading down to a protest after I eat a late lunch. What are you going to do?

  224. 224
    germy says:

    @Baud: A commenter at LGM said his grandfather was a freemason and a member of the KKK.

  225. 225
    Redshift says:

    @Another Scott: Also, unlike Rick Perry (and Drumpf, and Palin), I don’t think Manchin is dumb enough to think the Energy Department is the one that oversees the energy industry.

  226. 226
    Baud says:

    @germy: Ok, so we veto that guy.

  227. 227
    efgoldman says:

    @Chris:

    it needs to be called out by name.

    Yes, but not by the ex-presidents. My comment was specific to them. The networks, the FYNYT, WaPo, etc, need not be mealy mouthed about this (even though they will be)

  228. 228
    Fair Economist says:

    @sloan:

    Here’s a start: How about just one former Democratic President or nominee says “Donald Trump is racist.” Just straight up fucking say it out loud.

    On this planet, one already did.

  229. 229
    Mnemosyne says:

    @germy:

    I have to say, that’s one of the comforting things about being a Catholic on both sides of my family — they wouldn’t have been let into the KKK in the first place.

  230. 230
    bystander says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: You had to plant that idea in my mind with another hour to go before cocktails?

  231. 231
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sloan: “try harder”! “say the word ‘racist'”, that’ll change racists’ votes!

    You think you want different politicians. You actually want a different electorate. Go out and register voters for the midterms.

    (now your inevitable response that you’ve registered more voters than anyone, anywhere, EVER! Knocked on doors till your knuckles bled and wore out three sets of tires driving voters to the polls.)

  232. 232
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: He votes with Dems around 90-95% of the time. That’s pretty reliable.

  233. 233
    Chris says:

    @germy:

    Yeah, I don’t believe that shit for a second, and I’m a millennial.

    My experience of white millennials, and it skews disproportionately left, is that as a group we’ve absolutely inculcated the whole uber-simplified view of history that “once upon a time, black people were treated less well because of their skin color, but then Martin Luther King Had A Dream, and all that nonsense ended. If there’s a problem, it’s basically been solved, at least as far as legal and governmental action can go, and all things like affirmative action do is to perpetuate divisions and unfairly cripple whites.” (I’m not exempting myself from this – it took years to get past that baseline, even with a father who marched for civil rights, knew better, and told me so).

    This doesn’t necessarily lead to fascism, but it sure as hell creates fertile soil for the message that poor unfortunate white people just can’t catch a break anymore, and oh my God, everybody’s so worried for the gay left-handed black Jewish immigrant with a limp, but what about regular people? Trump won the white millennial vote, and as much as that depressed me, it didn’t surprise me at all.

  234. 234
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Fair Economist: Yeah, I was pretty sure it had, glad you had the memory I didn’t. I’m sure now the goalpost will move to, “Well Obama didn’t say it!”.

    Remember when Obama pointed out quite reasonably and correctly that a racist cop had acted stupidly? How all the white people said, You know, he’s got a point, and the cop was fired and we got police reform and shit. And that was in the deep red Republican stronghold of Cambridge, MA. Just think how Obama saying the word racist would change northern Michigan and western Wisconsin. Weekass fuckin’ Obama doesn’t know anything about winning over voters.

  235. 235
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t have a lot of faith in Manchin’s intellect but I can’t imagine that giving up a Senate seat to tie himself to the trump administration is a good move. He will already find all the tallest-grassed meadows open to him when he leaves the Senate, one way or the other, and he’s already been governor, no?

  236. 236
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yea great, the John Barrow of West Virginia.

  237. 237
  238. 238
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Rod Fucking Dreher has been clutching his pearls all week over free speech having real world social consequences over at his blog.

    Now he is pimping the idea that leftists have created white nationalism as a reaction to their “identity politics” and all of this is progressives’ fault.

    Oh, and BLM is just as bad as the Nazis. Because reasons.

  239. 239
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not just that, he went through the not being allowed to pick his staff dance with them during the transition. He’s now seen who the central vetting for loyalty to the President folks at the personnel selection office they’ve set up in the White House to staff the various departments, bureaus, and offices. He’s watch Tillerson not get who he wants. Same with Mattis. Hell they fired one of Carson’s longtime aides that Carson had hired on at HUD in advance of his becoming the HUD Secretary for writing an op-ed during the GOP primaries arguing why Carson was a better pick than the President. The day Carson was confirmed they fired him, alerted media to it, then took his badges and credentials and marched him out of the building in front of the waiting media. That was a message. Manchin isn’t going to go through that and be a figurehead Secretary of Energy told what to do everyday by the few handpicked loyalists to the President they allow him to have as a senior staff.

  240. 240
    dogwood says:

    @sloan:
    I spent the first 6 years of the Obama presidency reading this sort of non-stop criticism of his failure to “fight back” with rhetoric that will send some sort of Tweety-like thrill up the leg of people like you. It was constant at this blog and many others. Barack Obama isn’t POTUS anymore. He will respond to this in his own way at the time of his choosing, or perhaps he won’t respond at all. We have no right to demand anything of him, or Hillary Clinton, any longer. Maybe the cult of single-payer revolutionaries could step up to the plate.

  241. 241
    Mnemosyne says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Now he is pimping the idea that leftists have created white nationalism as a reaction to their “identity politics” and all of this is progressives’ fault.

    Uh, has anyone pointed out to ol’ Rod yet that white nationalism pre-dates “identity politics” by at least 100 years?

  242. 242
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Yep. And given that Jay Rockefeller isn’t going to run if a vacancy opens up, and I’m pretty sure a draft Cole movement isn’t going to get far, I’m not sure there’s a better Democratic senatorial fit for West Virginia.

  243. 243
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @celticdragonchick: Rod Dreher is an idiot. I’m also beginning to wonder if he doesn’t have some other things that are seriously wrong with him too.

  244. 244
    d58826 says:

    @BillCinSD: Well Bush 41 served in the Pacific so that counts for something

  245. 245
    Brachiator says:

    @Chris:

    ..There are probably millions of people in this country, be they emoprogs, disaffected Republicans, or professional centrists, who will never recognize their refusal to back a bog-standard center-left candidate against the most racist and least qualified presidential candidate we’ve had probably since the 1920s for the once-in-a-century catastrophic moral failure that it was.

    I’m not sure why the designation of professional centrist is meaningful. For anyone with a brain, the choice between unqualified and qualified should have been simple.

  246. 246
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    people have been pointing out to Rod that he is a particular practitioner of identity politics: specifically white reactionary Christian theocraticism.

    He never answers those observations and seems to have no inkling of self awareness that he is doing exactly what he accuses progressives of doing.

    He also has utterly no historical understanding of the fact that minority “identity politics” was and is a defensive measure necessitated by white majoritan oppression and violence specifically directed at said minorities….

  247. 247
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Rod Dreher is an idiot. I’m also beginning to wonder if he doesn’t have some other things that are seriously wrong with him too.

    He is seriously predisposed to authoritarianism, so there is that….he likes Putin, he has serious daddy/sister resentment issues and really likes to pretend he is an intellectual.

  248. 248
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @sloan: Love is our strongest weapon. I don’t know what you’re implying we need instead, but violence won’t get us where we need to go.

  249. 249
    sharl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, Rod DEFINITELY has some personal demons. He has apparently written about his early years; his family interactions while growing up, particularly with his father, are…curious. I’m only aware of this from a podcast I heard a few months ago from people who actually did read his writing on the topic.

  250. 250
    Another Scott says:

    @d58826: Not only that he was (very nearly) the youngest Navy aviator in the war (from 2013):

    Chuck Downey, of Poplar Grove, Ill., lived through 17 bombing missions, two kamikaze attacks and the sight of several friends being shot down by the enemy – all as the youngest Naval Aviator of World War II.

    For years, former President George H.W. Bush, a TBM Avenger Torpedo Bomber pilot, thought he was the youngest Naval Aviator of the war. But Downey has the President beat by 11 days, a fact the President has since acknowledged. Today, Downey is nearly 89 and still going strong.

    HW got a hugely unfair rap for being a “wimp”. But even back then, the GOP was run by and accepted double-think…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  251. 251
    Dave says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Are we sure we can’t draft Cole? I think he would be an excellent fit in the Senate. Wicked authentic.

  252. 252
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The purpose of a functioning society is to beat teach that out of them

    FTFY (respectfully)

  253. 253
    Dave says:

    @celticdragonchick: Rod is my favorite least important pundit/scold to dislike. He makes me want to bully him which is probably a common reaction to him and would actually explain a lot about Rod.

  254. 254
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @celticdragonchick: @sharl: Someone who would have been far better off had he gone to therapy not church.

  255. 255
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dave: I’m pretty sure biballs aren’t allowed on the Senate floor.

  256. 256
    Jay C says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    [Rod Dreher] is seriously predisposed to authoritarianism, so there is that….he likes Putin, he has serious daddy/sister resentment issues and really likes to pretend he is an intellectual.

    “Intellectual” in the sense that say, Duns Scotus or Thomas Aquinas would recognize the term: since his political philosophy seems to begin and end some time in the 13th Century. Then again, this is the guy who, IIRC, converted from Catholicism to some sort of Orthodoxy or other because the RCC wasn’t authoritarian enough for him.

    And of course, as it always seems to be with so many of these “religious thinker” types, it’s sex issues (especially gay ones) which send them right off the belfry…..

  257. 257
    cain says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: No love for Jimmy Carter? :(

  258. 258
    dimmsdale says:

    Here’s a question, and hopefully it’s not too far off the beam of this thread so far. If one of those cosplaying “militia” types should feel “stand-your-ground” threatened, and start shooting, and then another one does, and another one, how do the local cops respond? (this notion is being discussed on Twitter right now by John Rogers, @jonrog1, eminently worth following). Do these goobers operate under any kind of Rules of Engagement? Does anyone know what they are? Do local police, for that matter, and does anyone know what THEY are?) And when (I think it’s inevitable, so I’m not even bothering with a conjectural “IF”) there are bodies on the ground, who’s responsible? (I would love to see the cakes of dung that wrote and passed the OC laws held ultimately responsible, legally, but we know how likely that is.) Any lawyers or LEO care to weigh in on this? At very least, I’m advocating NO GUNS in a protest area, except for sworn LEO on duty. And dire consequences for anyone else who pulls a trigger.

  259. 259
    d58826 says:

    OK lots of stuff about the neo-nazi’s. There is a tweet about the ‘crimes’ of the antifa. I put it in quotes because, while I’ve seen the term, I don’t really know much about it. Where they the only group counter-protesting yesterday? Or are they a small mirror image of the alt-right. Since it is a conservative site that tends to go off the rails when talking about liberal groups like BLM I’m not sure how much to believe.

    In only one of the 7 things deals with the counter-protesters and the witter is pretty brutal in his description of the nazi’s

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/.....en-shapiro

  260. 260
    Aimai says:

    @germy: the freemasons took jews. My great grandfather was a mason snd an immgrant hew. He was incredibly proud of it.

  261. 261
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @d58826: That’s Ben “I worked at Breitbart for years until distancing myself through moral outrage would get me more publicity” Shapiro. He, like Stephen Miller, hasn’t quite figured out, or isn’t smart enough to realize, that the people he wants to be involved in don’t actually believe he’s human.

    As for yesterday’s counterprotests: there were a cross section of clergy, local and regional civil rights activists, a variety of others, and the antifa knuckleheads. Shapiro is simply failing the same test the President failed yesterday and is continuing to fail.

  262. 262
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Aimai: It is not that the Freemasons prohibit Jews. Rather there is a common, and from what I’ve been taught widely accepted, misunderstanding among Jews that the initiation requirements for Freemasons violate a number of Jewish precepts dealing with bending knees to others and taking oaths.

  263. 263
    Original Lee says:

    I find it amusing in a Schadenfreude kind of way that Melania’s milquetoast response yesterday was plagiarized from something Michelle Obama said last year.

  264. 264
    Jay C says:

    @Original Lee:

    I find it amusing in a Schadenfreude kind of way that Melania’s milquetoast response yesterday was plagiarized from something Michelle Obama said last year.

    SRSLY? Again?
    The current FLOTUS definitely needs some new writers on staff…..

  265. 265
    d58826 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s why I asked the question and was suspicious of the source. But there are knuckleheads on the left as well. Are the antifa groups anywhere near as large or well organized as the right or well armed?.

    I know MTP isn’t popular around here but listening to the rerun from this AM. They were talking about the police response/lack therefore of. Apparently part of the problem was the neo-nazi groups showed up armed to the teeth in full battle rattle. The cops were concerned that an aggressive response would fall into a full on FIREFIGHT.

  266. 266
    sharl says:

    @d58826: The relationship between “true” antifa types – a relatively small subset of the far Left as far as I can tell – and other far left groups is a bit complex, more so if you include Black Lives Matter (BLM) among The Left (an association which might be mostly true, but a group demanding that police stop killing them for no good reason doesn’t seem to be a left-or-right kind of thing).

    A great many lefties cheer on the nazi-punchers, the latter probably including most antifas. This riles up first amendment proponents of all political stripes (e.g. TheFIRE.org), who note that there’s a reason why 1A protects even the awful speech of flaming assholes, and that future punches – and worse – may be aimed at nazi-punchers and their fans by right-wingers who will feel justified in retaliating. Leftie responses typically invoke the WWII campaign against Nazi Germany, and ask “how far do you think we should let these fascists go before they are stopped?” That is an ongoing discussion.

    There is a divide between white and POC lefties as well, and that basically arises from white privilege. Black folk know what likely awaits them from police even if they protest peacefully, and contrasts are already being made between Charlottesville and Ferguson MO. And few things piss off and terrify black protesters as when a handful of white protestors show up, shout something like “kill the pigs!”, then laugh and move on, leaving the black protesters to face a possibly more aggravated force of well-armed, twitchy, and likely rather racist riot police.

    Today the lefties are pretty well unified, post-Charlottesville. Heather Heyer has become their martyr. The unity won’t last forever, of course, even though those groups agree on most basic issues. But IMO most of their disagreements are better described as squabbles than serious schisms.

  267. 267
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @d58826: The second part first: that’s what those guys wanted.

    The antifa are organized, but I really have never tried to measure the size of the movement. Right now the problem is that the alt-right folks have been doing their best to spoof, masquerade as, and otherwise impersonate and infiltrate the antifa to make them the problem and, by contrast, the alt-right folks the good guys. I did a post on this a few months back:
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/04/15/todays-berkeley-beat-down-planned-action-by-the-alt-right/

  268. 268
    d58826 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @sharl: Thanks. I guess my concern is that the excesses of the antifa groups allows the right to get into their ‘both sides’ defense. On MTP Rich Lowry, while condemning the neo-Nazi’s did throw out the ‘but your side did it also’ line. The conversation quickly degenerated into a your side used clubs but my side used bottles shouting match. Which is exactly what the right wants to have happen. As liberals I think we are better than the ‘if he brings a knife i’ll b ring a gun’ type of response. That is a good way to lose the moral high ground (what little there is of it).

  269. 269
    Adria McDowell says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Co-fucking-sign.

    Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama owe us a damn thing. They. Are. Not. President. Women and POC are not here to clean up after white supremacist messes. We are not their maids/cleaning ladies, and they are not serving politicians. They’ve done their part. Stop demanding shit from them.

    Oh, and Yes, You’re Racist on Twitter has been KILLING it since last night. Make ’em infamous.

  270. 270
    sharl says:

    @d58826: A lot of lefties might reconsider their tactics if they ever thought they could catch a break from big media. I don’t always agree with them that they’re being treated unfairly, but there often is a kiss-up-kick-down mentality in corporate media in which even centrist liberals tend to get the boot kick. As it stands, lefties rely on their own social media networks and do their thing.

    This goes double for BLM and other POC protests, where big media reporters blatantly seek out incidents that make for eyeball-catching video. You might get the more nuanced truth seven paragraphs into a written account, if you’re lucky. This kind of shit happened A LOT during the Ferguson protests. It doesn’t help that those running the protests rarely have full control over events, between neighborhood kids seeing looting opportunities, militarized police ratcheting up tensions, and assorted thrill seekers showing up just to get their own jollies.

    These days I try to not follow immediate accounts of riots, battles, etc., but rather wait a couple weeks or more until the long reads come out (hopefully), where some poorly paid reporter interviews a lot of people and tries to cut through the fog of chaos to get at the various aspects of what actually happened.

  271. 271
    sloan says:

    @Mnemosyne: way late with the response here but serious answer: protest, baby! Same same you.

    And I’ll volunteer for the best Democrats in primaries and whoever wins those in the midterms. Campaigns are fun.

  272. 272
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: you’re cranky, buddy. Chill.

    And you keep misrepresenting what I’ve said. Grow up.

    And yeah, I fucking do think that at the very least Obama has every right and reason to call Trump out and say he’s a fucking racist.

    What of it?

  273. 273
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Baud: OK, post of the day!

  274. 274
    TooTall says:

    The more I hear, the more I am reminded of something Oprah once said about people who are domestic abusers. She said that when you are dating someone, and they show you who they are, believe them. Don’t listen to their words and excuses for violence. If they show you that they are violent, then they are a violent person, and will be violent with you one day.

    In the same way, we should have seen this coming with Trump. In the campaign, he refused to condemn White Supremacists. Claimed to not know who David Duke was. He showed us who he was then. His actions now are not a surprise. He surrounds himself with other White Supremacists. Bannon, Miller, Gorka. This is who he is.

  275. 275
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @sloan: And you keep misrepresenting what I’ve said.

    By quoting you word for word?

    Grow up.

    Aw, bless your heart.

    And yeah, I fucking do think that at the very least Obama has every right and reason to call Trump out and say he’s a fucking racist.

    So you’ve moved from what he owes us to what he has the “right” to do? Well, I agree with your new, third (or is it fourth) position. Now put those goalposts down. I’d hate for you to hurt yourself.

  276. 276
    sloan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: but you’re not quoting me. Your straw man arguments misrepresenting what I said are nonsense.

    You’re just putting words in my mouth and being pissy. I never even directed a comment at you to begin with and you got all hot and bothered maybe because you’re here all the time and a little territorial when an infrequent commenter dares to disagree.

    Every response from you has been childish and petty. And you can’t help yourself because all your comment section bros are watching. You’re embarrassing yourself.

    Try harder.

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