In Case There Was Any Doubt

Yes, it was nazis. Yes, it was deliberate. And yes, it was terrorism..

157 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    The people who doubt aren’t going to be convinced by “evidence.”

  2. 2
    LAO says:

    @Baud: Well, the picture is certainly convenient. Too convenient, I say, it’s obviously a false flag engineered by Soros.

  3. 3
    debbie says:

    I didn’t realize until this morning that he was in the protest, left it, got his car, and then drove into the crowd. If that’s not clear intention, I don’t know what is.

  4. 4
    satby says:

    @Baud: yep, already seeing the”staged, false flag” bullshit in Twitter replies.
    I have to work today with one of the only two Drumpf voters I know IRL, and it will take all my strength not to go off on her.

  5. 5
    lollipopguild says:

    But her e-mails.

  6. 6
    Elizabelle says:

    Loser boys.

    @debbie: Good point. That will be highly interesting to prosecutors. They have opened an FBI and DOJ civil rights investigation into Mr. Fields.

    (PS: did you ask yesterday if I was back from Spain? Answer is, yes, sadly, since mid-July. Moar Trump exposure. Not good.)

  7. 7
    schrodingers_cat says:

    How about a thread for the woman who stood against this hatred, and gave her life.

  8. 8
    Elizabelle says:

    @satby: I wonder if the Trump voter might be chastened? I am seeing zilch from the few Trumpanzees I know on the book of Faces.

    Maybe don’t say anything and observe this nitwit for a while?

  9. 9
    debbie says:


    I haven’t seen where she’s been named? Can you link to something?

  10. 10
    debbie says:


    Glad you’re back, but I’m assuming you’re already planning your next escape.

  11. 11
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @LAO: Yes, obviously the fact that there’s proof means it’s a lie! Things are only true if there’s absolutely no evidence.

  12. 12
    Derelict says:

    Clearly, the guy is an ultra-extreme leftist acting to discredit the true patriot movement.

    Or he’s a lone wolf, and nobody could have predicted etc.

    Or he’s mentally ill, and shouldn’t we have some sympathy for his affliction?

    But an actual Nazi marching and acting to impose White supremacy on the United States of America? Simply not possible. Ask any Republican. Hell, just ask the President of these United States.

  13. 13
    debbie says:


    I haven’t seen anything yet on my feed, but boy, am I poised and ready to pounce!

  14. 14
    Chris says:


    Clearly, the guy is an ultra-extreme leftist acting to discredit the true patriot movement.

    Well, all Nazis are leftist anyway, doncha know.

  15. 15
    Schlemazel says:

    Heather Heyer

    I recommend melting granny Lee down & casting a statue to her at the replacemnt. She was more an honorable American that that slave owning son of a bitch

  16. 16
    Lapassionara says:

    @schrodingers_cat: her name is Heather Heyer. I do not know how to link, but my Twitter feed is a good source of information. Such sadness.

  17. 17
    Shrillhouse says:

    Tragedies like this will continue until the left is willing to have an honest discussion about rap lyrics and violent video games…

  18. 18
    schrodingers_cat says:

    @debbie: Her name is Heather Heyer, can’t link because I am on my phone.

  19. 19
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    His mommy’s statement was about what I’d expect from an NKY/SEOH wingnut – too coy about about not knowing his political activities, Trump defense, a black friend, he isnt that right wing.

    The nasty fucker was marching with Vanguard and chanting “Blood and Soil”. She had best be coming up with ways to put money on his prison book for the decade to come.

  20. 20
    Lapassionara says:

    See Schlemazel got there before me.

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @Chris: They have “Socialist” right there in the name!

  22. 22
    coozledad says:

    I wonder how many people we could flood DC with next weekend. And fuck permits.

  23. 23
    nycmt says:

    I am two handshakes from Cvjetanovic in the real world. My friend, whom i’ve known since he was a senior in high school twenty years ago, was his professor for three courses, and was tapped for graduate recommandations (my friend is obviously Jewish). This is how close this bullshit gets. Two handshakes to a nazi, jew-jew-nazi.

  24. 24
    Baud says:


    They have “Socialist” right there in the name!

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    I see socialist still triggers moderation.

  26. 26
    Baud says:


    Thanks. I read the news this morning and saw almost nothing about her.

  27. 27
    Tuna says:

    So Trump thinks he can be a supporter of Nazis and get a warm welcome in London…the city the Nazis tried to destroy.

  28. 28
    Aimai says:

    @LAO: they are already saying this.

  29. 29
    Schlemazel says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
    Does anyone know if VA has a “Stand Your Car” law that allows people to kill protesters with their car?

  30. 30
    RandomMonster says:

    But we all know the Nazis we’re national-socialists and socialism is part of the left and so all those those marchers are leftists.

  31. 31
    debbie says:


    Thanks. Nothing on Google yet. I’ll check Twitter.

  32. 32
    Schlemazel says:

    google ‘Heather Heyer’, you will find information

  33. 33
    debbie says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Was she the one who asked her son to be a “kind Nazi?”

  34. 34
    Culture of Truth says:

    from a distance their flags and banners look just like ISIS

  35. 35
    Nelle says:

    There was a go fund me overnight for, I think, funeral and associated expenses for the victim with a goal of 20,000. 21,000 raised in two hours (showed up on my Facebook feed).

  36. 36
    debbie says:


    Thanks. Spelling her last name correctly would have improved my results, I suppose.

  37. 37
    RandomMonster says:

    @Baud: Dang, you’re always first.

  38. 38
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Let me add this:

    There will always be horrible, filthy, disgusting lawyers (some even better than that rank incompetent Glenn Greenwald) to try and cobble 1st Amendment rights for white supremacists in their unconstitutional goal of cleansing nonwhite people and stealing their property in part (or all) of North America. This is antithetical to any notion of liberty.

    Next time one of these groups asks for help, the ACLU actually needs to look at the end goal in its analysis and quit enabling them. The answer shouldn’t be “both sides”, but instead a hearty and angry “fuck you, no”.

  39. 39
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: there is This.

    Not much, I know.

  40. 40
    HinTN says:

    @RandomMonster: Baud is a very quick bot.

  41. 41
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Schlemazel: No “stand your car” law in VA. But they’re trying to pass such laws in several red states, making it ok for drivers to plow into protesters. Because freedom.

  42. 42
    Amir Khalid says:

    Is it too soon yet to tell if there’s going to be any blowback for Republican politicians or their party after this spate of exposures regarding ties to the American far right and fascism?

  43. 43
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The Nazi murderer’s mom said she knew he was going to a rally, and she thought it had something to do with Trump. She was right about that anyway.

  44. 44
    oldgold says:

    Michael Gerson, a former Bush speech writer, has written a good op-ed piece in this morning’s WaPo condemning Trump’s babbling incoherent response to the events in Charlottesville.

    “Trump’s reaction to events in Charlottesville was alternately trite (“come together as one”), infantile (“very, very sad”) and meaningless (“we want to study it”). “There are so many great things happening in our country,” he said, on a day when racial violence took a life.”

  45. 45
    Schlemazel says:

    First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his commentarymen!

    BAUD 2020!

  46. 46
    Kathleen says:

    @Shrillhouse: Also, too, as Chuckles Toad told Tom Peres, until Dems reach out to people wearing swastika t shirts and carrying tiki torches. I blame Obama, Hillary and identity politics.

  47. 47
    Schlemazel says:

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    Yeah, they tried that shit here on the tundra and it failed but the GOP promised they would not let it go

  48. 48
  49. 49
    debbie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Patience, grasshopper. They’re all so scared shitless, they’ve tweeted out their “condemnations.” I have yet to see any GOPer supporting Trump’s “many sides” statement.

  50. 50
    Kathleen says:

    @Betty Cracker: Local Cincy news outlet discovered Fields lived in Northern Kentucky (Florence) and graduated high school there. Color me (not) shocked. Boone County is where I go when I need to get my soul sucked out.

  51. 51
    debbie says:


    If he said nothing about Trump’s “many sides,” then he’s either a KKK supporter or a KKK enabler.

  52. 52
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    When I first heard this I was thinking “Oh they are going use this riot as some kind of Kansas City thing and scream that we have to keep both sides apart” and start somekind of segregation. But this is feeling more like the Selma Civil Right march were the crude violence of the racists just got to much for the country. No politician seems to be defending the racists scum and even Trump the Twat and later day Governor Wallace can’t get away with praising them.

    And may I add, it’s that picture of eminently l punchable faces there? Small wonder they are racists, looks like being white is the only thing they got going.

  53. 53
    A Ghost to Most says:

    Why can’t Rump say “radical white christian terrorist”?

  54. 54
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The racism question is kind of meaningless since he drove his car into a crowd of people and then drove away. Murder is murder, racially motivated just makes it ever so much more nasty.

  55. 55
    Gin & Tonic says:

    As it happens, I am currently in southern Bavaria, where they know something about, you know, real Nazis, and have managed to come to grips with their history much better over 70 years than the US has in 150.

  56. 56
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    Yeah, those people are seriously fucked in the head. Here in the People’s Democratic Soc!alist Kenyan Shariah Republic of Louisville, we don’t understand them at all.

  57. 57
    Yarrow says:

    Turned on CNN for a moment and Jake Tapper was beating up on Tom Bossert “White House Homeland Security Adviser” for not condemning white supremacists. Tapper finally said that he’d heard him condemn violence, all groups who do this, etc. but not white supremacists. The guy then said he condemned white supremacists but looked like he was being forced to eat a shit sandwich while he said it. I don’t think his bosses at the WH will be happy with him.

    What has happened that the media is upset that Republicans aren’t condemning white supremacists? What changed? This is new. Was it the guy killing the girl with the car and injuring so many people?

  58. 58
    Yoda Dog says:

    @Amir Khalid: No blowback.

    However some berniebro shot up a baseball game, you may recall. Every democrat on every ticket needs to be prepared to own that shit at the polls for the next decade at least.

    (raises mug) morning, all.

  59. 59
    Lyrebird says:

    @Baud: I’m figuring the family of the deceased might need a little time before they’re ready to make statements or to see this everywhere. Who knows. But a proper tribute could reasonably take more than a night.

  60. 60
    Chris says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    from a distance their flags and banners look just like ISIS

    They look even more like ISIS when you get close enough to read what they’re saying.

  61. 61
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Interesting question. If you’re carrying, can you shoot a driver if you’re afraid he’s going to run you down? Isn’t that the essence of standing your ground?

  62. 62
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Well, well even the Mouch has isn’t liking Trump’s weasel words.

    “I think he needed to be much harsher as it related to the white supremacists and the nature of that,” Scaramucci said on ABC News’ “This Week.”

    Of course as an Italian American he perfect knows, that like the Slavs and Germans, he’s only an honorary white because the WASPS need the numbers.

  63. 63
    Kathleen says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Sadly, I was not at all surprised to read this. NoKY is its own bizarro fucked up place.

  64. 64
    TS says:


    Was it the guy killing the girl with the car and injuring so many people?

    Could be many reasons but one that comes to mind – the girl he killed was white.

  65. 65
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    What has happened that the media is upset that Republicans aren’t condemning white supremacists? What changed? This is new. Was it the guy killing the girl with the car and injuring so many people?

    Easy; this was in some middle class city and not some slum. If it can happen in Charlottesville, it can happen in any town or city in America.

  66. 66
    Schlemazel says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    I am old enough to remember when Italians, Greeks and even Poles were not white enough for those boys. If they were all on an iceberg they will start sawing of those ‘less than white’ folks who helped make them

  67. 67
    different-church-lady says:

    63 million Americans need to be told “This is what you voted for,” with no debate following.

  68. 68
    satby says:

    @Schlemazel: @Lapassionara: some info on Heather at the gofundme page set up for her family

  69. 69
    different-church-lady says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The polite reply is, “HEY YOU ASSHOLE, FOR 10 DAYS YOU WENT TO WORK FOR A WHITE SUPREMACIST!

  70. 70
    chris says:

    Friends and admirers of Heather are urging everyone to stand outside their homes at 10 p.m. Eastern on Sunday night (tonight) with lit candles, to show everyone across the world that they oppose racism and they oppose fascism.


  71. 71
    debbie says:

    Something else I don’t understand. Wasn’t the rally scheduled for Saturday @ noon? The March of the Tikis was the night before. Was that something spontaneous and unplanned (as in no permits)? If so, how could the police not have been better prepared for what happened the next day?

  72. 72
    different-church-lady says:

    It just keeps getting worse: someone let Freddie DB write an OpEd in the WaPo.

  73. 73
    A Ghost to Most says:

    @different-church-lady: I saw that. Refused to read it, though.

  74. 74

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I also think media attitudes are built cumulatively. Trump’s been trashing himself in public for a long time. Now that he’s president, that trashing reflects on us too. They’re looking for issues in everything he says because he’s reliably awful. They’re less likely to give him the benefit of the doubt, and rightly so.

  75. 75
    A Ghost to Most says:

    @debbie: Night of the Long Tiki Torches?

  76. 76
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @different-church-lady: I blame Cole.

  77. 77
    Yarrow says:

    @TS: Yes, that’s a good point. Had she been anything other than a white girl the media might not have turned.

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Another good point. It can happen in anyone’s leafy suburb or gentrified urban center.

    I guess what I’m curious about is how it changed. Yesterday during the protests the media wasn’t saying this sort of thing. Then something changed last night and now this morning the chyrons are “Trump won’t condemn white supremacy.” It’s a big change. Trump’s lack of condemnation didn’t surprise me because Trump and his followers have been saying and doing this all along. Why is the media suddenly so shocked and horrified?

  78. 78
    satby says:


    Why is the media suddenly so shocked and horrified?

    Because it’s not following the “thoughts and prayers” script. Bad shit (like a mass shooting) happens, the usual suspects who have enabled it come out and offer somber words about “thoughts and prayers” for the victims and then the media can move on, pretending all is well. Drumof didn’t follow the script. And the violence was too obviously an outgrowth of the fascist march.

  79. 79
    Yarrow says:

    @satby: Yeah, those are good points. I hope this ends up being some kind of turning point against Trump.

  80. 80
    debbie says:


    I also think lots of people were taken back by the visual of marching, shouting haters carrying torches, echoing the Jim Crow and segregation mobs.

  81. 81
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I canceled my membership yesterday. The ACLU can defend these people on someone else’s dime. The best response to hate speech isn’t more speech if it means getting run over

  82. 82
    Yarrow says:

    Chuckles the Todd is speaking in his “concerned” voice and all the panelists, including James Lowry are saying Trump hasn’t said enough. Chyron says “President Trump criticizes ‘both sides.'”

  83. 83
    randy khan says:


    I honestly think that the difference was that the white supremacists killed somebody. At that point, failing to condemn them was beyond the pale. (No pun intended.)

  84. 84
    The Simp in the Suit says:

    @debbie: “the visual of marching, shouting haters carrying torches, echoing the Jim Crow and segregation mobs.”

    Actually, for me, the visuals echoed the Nazis marches, too.

  85. 85
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @satby: Yup. Trump flubbed it THAT badly. Remember how people kept saying that his grandstanding and incompetence were already pretty bad but what would he be like in a national crisis? The crisis came. It was easy to know what to do. He threw away his shot. He couldn’t show he was capable of being an adequate _ceremonial_ president like even George W. Bush could manage. He’s done.

  86. 86
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @SatanicPanic: Well I just doubled mine to cover you.

  87. 87
    Elizabelle says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I think so too. I think this was big.

  88. 88
    SatanicPanic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: ok.

  89. 89
    lamh36 says:

    Good morning!

    It’s really sad that some folks think just cause you can dribble a ball or throw a good spiral for their entertainment that you can’t alls express your opinions about hatred & bigotry and instead should “just play ball”!! #TeamLeBron #TeamKaep!!

  90. 90
    Kathleen says:

    @Yarrow: Is he still concerned that Dems aren’t reaching out to people with swastikas on their T shirts? Has be blamed Obama and Hillary for encouraging divisiveness yet? Watching Joy Reid (I never watch any of the Sunday shows) but her lineup is stellar. George W Bush’s Ethics attorney (last name Painter) is kicking ass and naming names. Joy needs to have a daily program. She is outstanding.

    ETA I agree that media’s concern due mostly to fact young woman who was killed was white. I’m that cynical. The 2 state policemen’s deaths could also be a factor. Wondering if it was more than a random “crash”.

  91. 91
    bemused says:

    How many red lines have to be crossed? Media and a few GOPers are publicly calling the tiki torch terrorists white supremacists, fascists and nazis. That’s something newish but far from where we should be. So many of us saw a yuge red line when Trump became a candidate but there have been numerous danger signs along the way, tea partiers dominating town halls and gaining government seats, etc. and GOP actively promoting and using those people to be in power though the toxic seeds to decimate democracy have growing for decades.

    What happened in Charlottesville is a defining red line in our interactions with Republicans in our families, co-workers, etc. How many will openly denounce the nazi losers, stay silent or defend them? We will know them. GOP legislators will be defined by their actions. It’s still a drip, drip, drip process when it should be a deluge.

  92. 92
    LaNonna says:

    As an American living, for now, in Italy, and child of Holocaust survivors, I am horrified, terrified, conflicted, and have family members “stuck” in this brave new United States of America, the country my parents literally found as their salvation in the late 1940s. It seems topsy-turvy that I am better protected here in a former fascist state, both for my civil rights and my human rights. FWIW, we came here initially for medical treatment not available ( affordable I mean) in NYC, now wondering when/if we can ever return? I am sick to my stomach and have been since the elections, and beyond mournful.

  93. 93
    lamh36 says:

    this is the guy who had an entire twitter thread full of classmates who recognized him and were like “wait is this the guy from econ 1 that sits next to you Suzy”😂😂

    Peter Cvjetanovic says, “I’m not the angry racist they see in that photo”…

    “Sure, Jan!”🙄🙄

  94. 94
    Honus says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I was at the hearing for the injunction Friday. The ACLU lawyer was from Alexandria and he appeared by phone. The judge was from Roanoke, 100 miles south of here. The city wanted to move Kessler’s rally from the small park in the heart of a downtown neighborhood, adjacent to a pedestrian mall, to much larger more isolated park about a mile away, where festivals, softball games, cookouts etc are held. There is a Vietnam memorial in the park too.
    The judge and the ACLU lawyer were oblivious to and ignored the fact that putting this group of nazis and their militants opposition together in a congested neighborhood near a walking mall full of businesses and restaurants on a summer Saturday was a prescription for disaster. The abstract conception of Jason Kessler’s first amendment right to have his rally right next to a statue of Robert lee carried the day. And cost heather her life.

  95. 95
    Kathleen says:

    @satby: Thank you for posting that.

  96. 96
    chris says:


    Those that tell me not to tweet politics because I'm an uninformed celebrity are the same people that voted for… an uninformed celebrity.— Alyssa Milano (@Alyssa_Milano) 2 February 2017

  97. 97
    lamh36 says:

    1:2 There should be no place in society for racism, white supremacy and neo-nazis.

    Really Ivanka, cause ur daddy talks to at least 3 such types almost every day🤔🤔

  98. 98
    lamh36 says:

    When I asked senior WH official why Trump didn’t condemn Cville Nazis, he said: “What about the leftist mob. Just as violent if not more so”

  99. 99
    El Caganer says:

    The “Best Regards” thing was weak sauce. He should have gone all the way and signed off, “Toodle-oo!”

  100. 100
    Honus says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: funny thing is, that’s pretty much what the rest of Virginia calls charlottesville. Kessler was quoted as saying he likes to have events here to offend the brainwashed Marxist liberal populace.

  101. 101
    RSA says:

    @lamh36: Later in that article Cvjetanovic says,

    “As a white nationalist, I care for all people. We all deserve a future for our children and for our culture. White nationalists aren’t all hateful; we just want to preserve what we have.”

    He’s paraphrasing a slogan that traces back to a passage from Mein Kampf.

  102. 102
    lamh36 says:

    ‪#MaskOff: Social Media Exposes Racists from Charlottesville, Va., White Supremacist Rally via @TheRoot‬

  103. 103
    Dave says:

    @Elizabelle: The most I’ve seen are some attempts to make a false equivalence with BLM. They are acknowledging it’s bad, they just want people where they belong after all not this ugliness, but are still invested in redirecting. Others are remaining silent which is probably a good sign. Obviously speaking out directly would be the best but that’s a long shot.

  104. 104
    lamh36 says:

    Ugh…I’m betting on the same type of violence that happened on the last 48 hrs to continue as long as the Orange menace is in office!!

    Trump campaign just released new ad attacking his “enemies” in media & Dem Party. Seems quite tone deaf right now.

    You’d think someone in Trump’s orbit would say “maybe right now isn’t the best time to release a campaign ad casting @POTUS as the victim.”

  105. 105
    lamh36 says:

    No shit Sherlock, Ima let u finish, but they ALWAYS have been! 🙄🙄

    “if these monuments are going to become rallying points for Neo-Nazis, maybe they do have to go” — @RichLowry

  106. 106
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: I can’t get to that page because of my ad blocker. Are they naming names and posting photos? I surely hope so.

    I have been with family all week, and my nieces husband posed this question at breakfast? What can employers do, or what should employers do, if they see their employees taking part in the torch march and white supremacist stuff? There was no agreement about that, and lots of wondering what could legally be done if people were marching on their own time.

  107. 107
    Betty Cracker says:

    @lamh36: Here’s my favorite quote from Cvjetanovic:

    “I did not expect the photo to be shared as much as it was. I understand the photo has a very negative connotation.”

    Ya think? I hope that photo and the stories about him parading around with a violent mob of idiotic white supremacists remains the top search result for his name for the rest of his natural life.

  108. 108
    scav says:

    If all this is true, then there’s definitely a growing theme and shared vocabulary between the dear Donald and his cosplaying Charlotte cohorts. How Trump’s paranoid White House sees ‘deep state’ enemies on all sides

    Hadn’t realized “Republican leadership. ‘Afraid of being acused of being called racist, sexist, homophobe or Islamophobe'” had joined the official larger list (I may be slow, I thought they we on Donnie’s personal one because of failure to be sufficiently abject). What an intersting place the NSC must be.

  109. 109
    lamh36 says:

    @WaterGirl: there is a particular twitter thread run by user “You Are A Racist” I think that has a hashtag. It’s where ole Pete was indentified by his classmates

  110. 110
    lamh36 says:

    @WaterGirl: oh and it’s def getting results…

    Cole White, from California — allegedly works at Top Dog restaurant in Berkeley

    UPDATE: Cole White, the first person I exposed, no longer has a job 💁‍♂️ #GoodNightColeWhite #ExposeTheAltRight #Charlottesville

  111. 111
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:


    You recall the name of the ACLU lawyer who made the appearance? I would like to have a real life lawyer to lawyer chat about that delicate balance between zeal and proportionality and how there are trade offs that can be performed within the boundaries of professional ethics.

  112. 112
    lamh36 says:

    @Betty Cracker: right i made the point last night that the same social media tool that they use to recruit and spread and document their bigotry & hatred is the same tool used to expose them out of the dark web and from behind their keyboard into the light!

  113. 113
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @WaterGirl: FWIW, the First Amendment protects speech from the government, which is important. (Duh). It provides no protection against social response to speech. If the employer is a governmental entity, it’s protected speech. A private employer faces no such restrictions, subject, of course, to any published HR policy/employment contract/union agreement terms w/r/t termination and its allowable reasons. The pertinent point
    is that the government can’t punish you for speech/associations, but society can.

    Disclosure: not an employment law specialist.

  114. 114
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I’d like to hear that!

    PS HALP – I iz in moderation and I don’t know what I did wrong

  115. 115
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: thank you! the photos aren’t loading (on an amtrak train) but I will check it out again when I get home.

  116. 116
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Schlemazel: Rethuglican state legislators are actually proposing legislation that reduces the liability of those who run over pedestrians as a result of incidents at the pipeline construction site in N Dakota.

  117. 117
    debbie says:


    Should be? She should have said Is.

  118. 118
    debbie says:


    Kessler was quoted as saying he likes to have events here to offend the brainwashed Marxist liberal populace

    So where are the charges for incitement?

  119. 119
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Yarrow: Chuckles the Toddler needs to be on the rocketship to the sun with Donald.

  120. 120
    debbie says:


    My workplace points out that wherever we are, we represent the corporation. They don’t say don’t, but they don’t think they need to. Also, it probably gives them the freedom to act without consistency.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    Honus says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Victor Glasburg. Apparently a long time civil rights lawyer, working with the ACLU. Here you go.

  123. 123
    lamh36 says:

    ‪Uh huh… i call bullshit…That’s pretty convenient right now isn’t it…so say he fires Bannon for being a leaker but not a racist white nationalist 🙄🙄‬

    NEW: Trump has told associates he believes Bannon is a leaker.

  124. 124
    Karen says:

    I don’t know if anyone else saw or mentioned this;
    When I read that the police just stood and watched, I realized that made them complicit; so ended up wondering just how many of them would have marched with the Nazis, the Klan and white supremacists if it had been in another state or city.

  125. 125
    different-church-lady says:


    Peter Cvjetanovic says, “I’m not the angry racist they see in that photo”

    Really? Well what kind of angry racist are you then?

  126. 126
    lamh36 says:

    Where are the arrest over this? And are the FBI or other LEOs aware of this and looking into it?

    Deandre Harris, the 20-year-old that was beaten w/ poles by white supremacist in #Charlottesville, speaks out:

  127. 127
    different-church-lady says:

    @lamh36: Trump don’t do timing. Trump just does Trump.

  128. 128
    different-church-lady says:


    “White House: Trump condemnation includes ‘white supremacists’”

    Oh, how nice of you to be fucking INCLUSIVE. Now let me explain set theory to you, you goddamned dickhead…

  129. 129
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36: BTW this beating occurred NEXT TO A FUQN POLICE STATION!!!!

  130. 130
    Honus says:

    @Karen: l can’t be too hard on the police. They were presented with a tough situation. They declared an illegal assembly early and tried to move everybody out of the park. I’m old enough to remember what happened in places like Chicago when they just moved in and started beating on people. This was complicated by the open carry law which resulted in literally dozens of men in helmets and camo carrying assault rifles openly on the streets in a business district on Saturday afternoon. I hate to say it but it could have been worse. It also could have been better if judge Conrad hadn’t forced this thing into the downtown area.

  131. 131
    dimmsdale says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: well, yeah, not an employment law specialist either, but I (along with the rest of my fellow working stiffs) have been informed by my large, corporate employer many times that any action taken by me that jeopardizes the firm reputationally will be frowned on, penalties to include termination. Not sure how legal it is to do that, but it’s tempered my public statements on social media, unfortunately.

  132. 132
    ruemara says:

    @debbie: the police are very solidly compromised and infiltrated with white supremacy.

  133. 133
    Honus says:

    @lamh36: The police garage is DIRECTLY UNDER WHERE DEANDRE WAS BEATEN!

  134. 134
    dimmsdale says:

    @Honus: Not a lawyer, and treading somewhat gingerly here, but reading your comment I think “and what about those ‘protest zones’, far away from the entities being protested, that lefties get herded into all the time?, doesn’t fairness require even-handedness here?” (maybe I’m missing something, but isn’t a lot of the violence and the young woman’s death down to the inadequate and possibly complicit response of the police?) Also, I’ll just add that henceforth, the next time Nazis march in public, if I don’t see them surrounded in overwhelming numbers by National Guard I’m going to assume complicity with Nazis on the part of local officials.

  135. 135
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @A Ghost to Most: Because they’re his peeps. White Supremacists don’t condemn other White Supremacists.

  136. 136
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @lamh36: Only three arrests so far.

  137. 137
    Mnemosyne says:

    I was checking Facebook and it turns out that someone I know IRL is acquainted with one of the people who was injured yesterday. Fortunately for her, she was fairly far from the car itself, so she just has a broken arm and some scrapes and bruises.

  138. 138
    Karen says:

    @Honus: many police support white supremacy, in places where there are no restrictions on tattoos it is not unusual to see police with tattoos that support nazis or white supremacy. I can’t find the link since cleaned history, but someone started sharing police tattoos that are the same as the nazis, klan and white supremacists wear.
    I remember Chicago, and Watts; but I see it as wrong to simply allow the open carry, camo wearing idiots to take part in police line.

  139. 139
    Honus says:

    @dimmsdale: I agree about the protest zones. I think the judge made an ill-considered ruling. McIntire park, where they wanted to move the nazis isn’t all that remote, either.

  140. 140
    Honus says:

    @Karen: they weren’t taking part in the police line, they were exercising their “Second Amendment rights” and the police couldn’t do anything about it and if they had tried it may well have escalated the violence.
    I’ve lived here for 45 years and am acquainted with the last two police chiefs, Deke Bowen and Timothy Longo, and honestly don’t believe either of them were racist. The new Chief, Al Thomas, is African American. As far as PDs go, I think the CPD is less racist than most.

  141. 141
    Honus says:

    @Honus: of course, I’m an old white guy.

  142. 142
    chris says:

    @Karen: Waiting for the (black) chief of police to speak up. Wondering if he was more concerned with the heavily-armed “patriots” than a bunch of people with sticks and stones. I’m still amazed that nobody was shot.

  143. 143
    Mnemosyne says:


    I wouldn’t be surprised if CPD tried to get additional assistance from other agencies and couldn’t, because no one else took the threat seriously. After all, it was just a bunch of white people marching and protesting, so how dangerous could it be? 🙄

    I do feel like that judge and ACLU lawyer have blood on their hands now. They were told that CPD felt it would be dangerous to have the rally in that area, and CPD was right.

  144. 144
    Karen says:

    @chris: You aren’t the only one surprised that no one was shot, I think they should have done something to keep the “patriots” away if possible; but then I believe open carry is just asking for problems. When you make it legal for civilians to walk around in camo carrying weapons and live ammunition it is simply a matter of time before they open fire, if they are standing with police people aren’t going to know if police or “patriots” are the ones doing the shooting.

  145. 145
    Gravenstone says:

    @lamh36: Of course Bannon is a leaker. He has a position and goal he’s trying to solidify by getting it ‘out there’. He’s far from only one. Probably Miller, Gorka, Jarvanka… the whole lot of them are leaking to protect their own interests and settle squabbles and scores.

  146. 146
    d58826 says:

    Most of the GOP has been saying the right things the past 24 hours. Now it’s time to walk the walk. When Congress returns from recess the D;’s should introduce legislation to re-instate the Voting rights act. Lets see how the Goopers respond.

    Generally speaking I’m in favor of a clean debt limit bill but since the GOOPERS want to clutter it up with amendments, then I think the D’s should say no voting right amendment then no debt limit votes. And they need 60 votes to pass in the Senate

  147. 147
    Jay C says:


    Jim Wright (Stonekettle) posted a satisfactory* solution to the issue of Confederate statues in public places: take them down, break them up, and recast them into urinals – so that the Confederacy can get its proper respect…..

    *slightly sexist, but satisfactory

  148. 148
    Seth Owen says:

    @Betty Cracker: He might have thought of changing his name to smith or jones first, too. Idiot.

  149. 149
    chris says:

    @Karen: As a Canadian I think I can safely say that those of us in the civilised world eagerly await the day when America joins us. Real gun laws would be a good start but we’re not holding our breath.

  150. 150
    Shalimar says:

    @Yarrow: Trump condemned “most sides”, not both. Since he didn’t show any personal contrition, I think it follows that he sees every side at fault but him.

  151. 151
    Honus says:

    @Mnemosyne: no, mcauliffe ordered the national guard in Friday, and there were state police and uva police also to help. I think they baffled at what to do, they couldn’t arrest the people for just being armed, and they didn’t want to start a police riot so they may have underreacred as a result.

  152. 152
    Shalimar says:

    @Gravenstone: Preibus was too, at least in the sense of venting to reporters he has known for years and letting them print it. There were a number of lay-of-the-White-House anonymous quotes that could only come from him or a close aide.
    There were 3 basic types of leaks:
    1) the “can you believe this incompetence?” quotes the mostly seem to come from longtime Republican operatives;
    2) the “Javanka are so awesome” quotes that seem to come directly from Javanka;
    3) the “lay waste to all our enemies and destroy the American way of life” quotes from Bannon, Miller, Gorka and allies, and are mostly disseminated through Breitbart and Cernovich.

  153. 153
    Shalimar says:

    @Honus: As I have said before, if it was the NAACP dressed in fatigues armed with semi-automatic rifles ringing a park, I would bet everything i own that they would have been arrested en masse and had charges sorted out later. The point of all these open carry laws is to protect white nuts with guns, even nazis.

  154. 154
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    Uh huh… i call bullshit…That’s pretty convenient right now isn’t it…so say he fires Bannon for being a leaker but not a racist white nationalist

    Sounds like Trump’s thinking – Trump blew the condemnation so Trump’s going to blame someone else.

  155. 155
    dimmsdale says:

    @Honus: this is actually a huge issue, and I thank you for your ‘local knowledge’ and being able to address specific nuances in this case. Actually, TWO huge issues, one I’d put down to getting police over the psychic dissonance of contemplating using the nightstick on WHITE people (instead of POC, lefties, and the other usual suspects), and the other being, how do police effectively control a well-armed crowd that, guaranteed, will contain at least one trigger-happy hot head? I’m hoping that police around the country will take these issues on, in a serious way, and be ready next time. Hope it doesn’t take too long.

  156. 156
    sm*t cl*de says:

    March participants were smugly tweeting that people fear them now — mission,accomplished! Which is to say, they are claiming the label “terrorist” for themselves.

  157. 157
    Scamp Dog says:

    @Kathleen: I haven’t read anything specific about the crash itself, aside from an official statement that there was “no indication of foul play being a factor”, but helicopters in general have a horrible safety record. Odds are it was a mechanical error or pilot error (keeping in mind that there are MANY more errors you can make in a helicopter).

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