The Cult of the Lost Cause and their Fucking Baubles

Let’s not forget that this villainy in Charlottesville found its genesis in protests over the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee, so it is worth rewatching this amazing speech by the Mayor of New Orleans when they tore down some statues there:

Every god damned one of these statues needs to be torn down and put in a museum somewhere, or just destroyed and forgotten. All they are are monuments to terror, designed to continue to remind black people of their “place” in white society. Nothing more. We should no more see a Robert E. Lee statue at the University of Virginia than we should see a statue of Hitler in front of the Holocaust museum. We should have streets named after Stonewall Jackson any more than we should have Timothy McVeigh Boulevard in fucking Oklahoma City.

If these Klansmen and Nazis love their fucking statues so much, may I suggest they spend less money on swastikas and confederate flags and Gadsden flags, tiki torches, skinny jeans and illfitting khakis, airfare to Charlottesville, and White Lives Matter t-shirts and start building a place to store these monuments to traitors and racists. Maybe in Missouri. But not in polite society.

And don’t fucking even mouth the words “destroying our history.”

Excellent.






134 replies
  1. 1
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Best. Rant. EVAH.

    Thank you, John.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2
    trollhattan says:

    I suggest they be used to encircle the Kentucky Creation Museum. Ken Ham, now is your time to step forward.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    Chris says:

    America’s race problems won’t be solved until the Confederacy is as much an object of shame and disgust here as the Third Reich is in Germany.

    ReplyReply
  4. 4
    Jeffro says:

    Amen and amen.

    Melt the statues down into chains for those who kill innocent protestors. Like, 500 pounds of chains each.

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    Roger Moore says:

    Every god damned one of these statues needs to be torn down and put in a museum somewhere, or just destroyed and forgotten.

    I’m voting for destroyed and forgotten. Metal ones should be melted down and re-cast into statues of Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King, Jr., or Barack Obama.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Hollywood actress and activist Susan Sarandon says former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would be a more dangerous U.S. president than Donald Trump — provided she’s not indicted first.

    Ms. Sarandon, a supporter of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign, told a liberal news outlets this week that Mrs. Clinton’s track record portends a much worse future than anything Mr. Trump might catalyze as commander in chief.

    Such uncanny predictions.

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    rikyrah says:

    Oliver Willis

    @owillis

    What’s not to get? They are his people. We’ve been saying this for 2 years and the media keeps ignoring us.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    A Ghost to Not says:

    Ken Ham should buy them all up, and scatter them around his psychotic book-banger water park.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: What the fuck is wrong with you?

    ReplyReply
  10. 10
    showmepillbilly says:

    They already got a place for all that confederate shit in Branson! Put in the dumpster out back this place!

    https://www.yelp.com/biz/dixie-outfitters-branson

    They are for real.

    The Confederate flag represents Southern culture, Anna Robb said.

    In an interview with the News-Leader on Monday, she said the flag represents faith, family and freedom — not slavery, racism or white supremacy.

    On Thursday, the News-Leader was alerted by readers that Robb’s husband Nathan, co-owner of the store, once tried to adopt a highway in Arkansas on behalf of the Ku Klux Klan, and that Nathan Robb’s father is Thomas Robb, the national director of the KKK.

    Taney County Assessor’s records show Anna and Nathan Robb own Dixie Outfitters in Branson, a franchise store that sells Confederate flag merchandise located at 1819 W. State Highway 76.

    http://www.news-leader.com/sto...../29325367/

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    oatler. says:

    Chuck Todd‏Verified account @chucktodd 1h1 hour ago

    Chuck Todd Retweeted Gov. Mike Huckabee
    Yet another conservative leader taking a much different tone than the POTUS

    Chuck, you don’t NEED an excuse to load MTP with GOP scumbags…you just like it.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12

    “…If these Klansmen and Nazis love their fucking statues so much, may I suggest they spend less money on swastikas and confederate flags and Gadsden flags, tiki torches, skinny jeans and illfitting khakis, airfare to Charlottesville, and White Lives Matter t-shirts and start building a place to store these monuments to traitors and racists. Maybe in Missouri. But not in polite society….”

    Uh, not in west central Missouri. I don’t want them here, either.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    Don’t destroy them, let them stand as concrete (no pun intended) evidence bolstering “lest we forget” in a national Hall of Shame.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The entire story of the South, from Brown v. Board of Education on, is hate, not heritage.

    The symbols of the Confederacy were deliberately adopted as the signifiers of white supremacy and segregation.

    Hate, not heritage.

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    Mike in NC says:

    The oldest city in the country is Saint Augustine, Florida, founded in 1565. But the Lost Cause shitbirds only care about their “Southern Heritage” between the years 1861-1865. Some coincidence! Best thing to do with all those statues would be to load them onto a barge and sail them a mile offshore and weight test them.

    ReplyReply
  16. 16
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @NotMax:

    Or, as Neighborhood Texture Jam once said, “Want to see the rebel flags? / Wanna go see ’em? / They’re next to the swastikas / In a museum!”

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    Ruckus says:

    @Chris:
    Not only shame in Germany, outlawed. We may have a small problem with that first amendment thing in outlawing but we do have restrictions on speech in this country. We just don’t do it when hate is involved.

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    trollhattan says:

    @NotMax:
    Maybe makeovers for them all in preparation for appearances on RuPaul’s “Drag Race.”

    “Let’s have a big welcome for Roberta E Lee!”

    ReplyReply
  19. 19
    Baud says:

    Conversation
    John Dingell
    John Dingell @JohnDingell
    I signed up to fight Nazis 73 years ago and I’ll do it again if I have to.

    Hatred, bigotry, & fascism should have no place in this country.

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: blow me, snowflake. the fucking alt-left played a big role creating this disaster presidency and culture of hate and every time an atrocity occurs their original sin needs to hammered.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    Hungry Joe says:

    Ah, yes, Robert E. Lee, that fine Southern gentleman who, when his army invaded the North — a.k.a. the United Sates of America — ordered all the free African-American citizens his soldiers captured be sent south and sold into slavery. Before his fucking statue is melted down I’d pay for the opportunity to spit on it.

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    trollhattan says:

    @Baud:
    Love it!

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Confederate monuments are participation trophies, mostly put up in the period 1890-1910 by the Confederate widows and daughters using some of the zombie capital gained through several generations of stolen labor, rape, murder and sharecropping in the postbellum years. They gained so much that they felt comfortable wasting money to honor traitors and losers.

    They’re obscenities, and not “history”.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24
    NotMax says:

    Clearing Confederates – particularly those in uniform – from Congress’ statuary Hall would be a huge step forward.

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    jimmiraybob says:

    Sometimes there’s a bit of good news in Missouri like when Frank Ancona, imperial wizard of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, was found shot to death and floating in the Big River in southeast MO. I’d like to think that there was some kind of cosmic justice afoot guiding his cracked out wife who shot him and then got her son to help dump the body.

    Seriously though, it’s not safe in rural south Missouri to be black, brown or Muslim after dark.

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    Shana says:

    @Jeffro: I see someone knows their Dickens.

    I hadn’t watched that speech before although many had recommended it. It’s truly wonderful, and a badly needed bit of uplift we all need today.

    BTW, daughter’s safely on her way home from being a legal observer in Charlottesville. Taking her out for a nice dinner tonight.

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Shana: Good news.

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    dmsilev says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    Robert E. Lee, that fine Southern gentleman

    Lets not forget “oath-breaker”, since I’m given to understand that fine Southern gentlemen are men of their word.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.] says:

    Read this yesterday as a sub-link to a post. I found it really clarifying. Tolerance is a peace treaty, not a moral absolute. Link to article here

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @dmsilev:
    He was so loyal to his state that he had to fight for the Confederacy and against the United States. Lee was a real asshole after the war too.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Schlemazel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:
    I must have missed something. What is it with you two? As nasty as people can be here I have never seen them act the way you guys are over so little.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @oatler.: Chuckles the Toddler is an utter waste of skin.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    NotMax says:

    @dmsilev

    By present day Republican ‘logic’ Lee’s offenses were “youthful indiscretions.”

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Schlemazel says:

    @Hungry Joe:
    When an escaped slave was returned to him he was angry that the local guy was not whipping her hard enough so he paid one of the bounty hunters to whip her harder. The man was scum

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    rikyrah says:

    @Shana:
    Good to hear

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @NotMax: If I could upfist this comment, I would.

    Hey, I just did!

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Good rant Cole.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Baud says:

    I hate that the media is going to make Marco Rubio a hero for saying the right things on Twitter today.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    J R in WV says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Onmes,

    I have to agree with David Canadian Anchor Baby here, Ms Sarandon is even a local person here in Charleston, but she is totally off her rocker about Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders.

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    seejanerun says:

    Robert E. Lee was a slaver and if he was on Game of Thrones Dany’s dragons would torch him. I’d sign up for HBO to watch that.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    Mnemosyne says:

    Co-signed. All of it. And Robert E. Lee was a traitorous asshole.

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    Elizabelle says:

    @Shana: Wonderful that your daughter observed; what an interesting dinner is in store for you both.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    Elizabelle says:

    Maybe this is a chance for a redo, the opportunity to put the Civil War in context, and stop with the celebrating of the fake-ass Lost Cause.

    Teach the truth, and how that revisionist history came to be popular, even while not accurate. Yes, most white Confederates did not own slaves. But their whole society was built on race laws and unfree labor.

    Today, their descendants (actual and cultural) are strutting their ignorance and trying to deny the rest of us first world healthcare/medical insurance. Along with depriving too many of their rights as citizens. (Voting; responsive government.) Fuck ’em.

    Make that confederate flag as unwelcome and recognized as swastikas. The Germans got it right. We did not.

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: I apologized to you in the prior thread.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    Davey C says:

    @Baud:
    Well, what Rubio said is a helluva lot better than what my useless representative (Lee Zeldin) said, so I think he deserves some credit, if only for this one particular thing.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Shana:

    BTW, daughter’s safely on her way home from being a legal observer in Charlottesville. Taking her out for a nice dinner tonight.

    Very good news. Must have been a long day for you. Hope you both enjoy dinner :-)

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    debbie says:

    @Elizabelle:

    All that is needed is to make the Articles of Secession required reading.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Chris says:

    @seejanerun:

    Not that I’m really trying to push you towards the Star Wars prequels, but I really appreciate the behind the scenes nugget that Count Dooku was based on Robert E. Lee.

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    “He opposed slavery!” That’s what I’m getting on Twitter from the alt-right apologists. He opposed slavery so much that he dedicated 4 years and killed half-a million Americans to preserve it. If he really opposed slavery, he didn’t need to war against his beloved “Virginia”. He could have resigned his commission and sat the war out, and let less competent leadership run the Confederacy to the ground.

    “There were other reasons!”. Then why didn’t the secessionists name them? If there were other causes, it would have helped in getting more favorable world opinion and taken the pressure off other nations to honor the blockades or even come in on their sides.

    And it says something about these people’s sense of entitlement that they are protesting the removal of statues from other people’s public property. Even though it’s clear the town no longer wants them around or doesn’t care much for them anymore.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50

    @Baud: classic sociopathic behavior.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    bupalos says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Truly impressive. Nominating this for a grammy in the category of Best Achievement in Self-Defeating Tone-deafness.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Elizabelle says:

    @debbie: And Confederacy VP Alexander Stephens’ Cornerstone speech.

    Pretty damn clear, too. How inconvenient for the “heritage” yahoos.

    …. Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: You’ve got me curious. Checking your misdeed now. LOL.

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @debbie: Exactly. They state precisely why the slave states were acting as they did. White supremacy and slavery.

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: This isn’t real life.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    donnah says:

    David Duke was thrilled with the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, calling for a reclaiming of America for the whites. He acknowledged that he voted for Trump because he promised to do that. When he saw Trumps’s weak non-apology, he replied to Trump in a tweet:

    “I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.”

    We are skating on very thin ice. Please let cooler heads prevail.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    Dave says:

    @Elizabelle: Amazing how similar the reasoning is to that applied to different settings. Like the fired googlebro’s manifesto. Pseudoscience used to defend bigotry.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
  59. 59
    Bob Collins says:

    Where I am in Virginia, we hear all the time that we have to preserve our Southern heritage. Heritage? It’s a heritage of slavery, racism, treason, and defeat. The real Confederate battle flag is the white surrender flag.

    The hate and envy of much Southern trash knows no bounds.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Y’all treat me decent here.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Good lord, I didn’t watch the Ape’s remarks. They were even worse than “many sides”

    Hallie Jackson‏Verified account @ HallieJackson 3h3 hours ago
    “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides. On many sides.” -@ POTUS
    Adds: “This has been going on for a long, long time.” Calls for restoration of “law and order.”

    John Harwood, whom I’ve always liked, is not amused

    John Harwood‏Verified account @ JohnJHarwood 31m31 minutes ago
    imagine an American president, after Bloody Sunday, condemning hatred “on many sides” on the Edmund Pettus Bridge

    sad to say, I don’t find that president too difficult to imagine

    ReplyReply
  62. 62

    @Baud: that might be more a statement about the people around you than about you.

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Yes, most white Confederates did not own slaves.

    I have long suspected that those numbers are deliberately cooked. If you had a slaveholding family of a husband, wife, and six kids (not uncommon for that time), technically only one of those 8 people was the slaveowner: the husband. That doesn’t mean that the rest of the family didn’t benefit from the slaves that they themselves were not the legal owners of.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    Brachiator says:

    @Chris:

    America’s race problems won’t be solved until the Confederacy is as much an object of shame and disgust here as the Third Reich is in Germany.

    America’s race problems did not begin with the Confederacy. Racism and American Apartheid has been at the heart of the United States since it’s founding. Rejecting the fetish objects of the Confederacy is at best a small, but very welcome gesture.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mnemosyne: good point, adult sons who would’ve fought might well have grown up in a slave-holding family

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    Elizabelle says:

    @Dave: Ooooh. Good point.

    @Baud: Just looked. Meh. Saw your comment not long after it went up, and recognized it as snark.

    You can do something worse you have to apologize for!

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.] says:

    @Elizabelle: I’m reflexively resistant to anyone saying that we should do something because it’s a “moral truth” If they can’t explain why, that person is “selling” something. It’s pretty easy to see who the mark is.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:Credit where credit is due, Harwood has been telling it like it is ever since T announced as a candidate.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The people around me have changed over time. It’s no one’s fault. Just the way it has to be.

    @Elizabelle:

    Whew. I’m sure I’ll take you up on that offer.

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    I wonder if any of this is true:

    http://gotnews.com/breaking-ch.....s-druggie/

    Link presents “evidence” that the Charger’s driver was not one of the White Supremacists/ Nazis.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    Elizabelle says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was highly impressed by Cory Gardner’s tweet; he being a Republican from the purple state of Colorado. Adam put it up on previous thread.

    Mr. President – we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism. https://twitter.com/sencorygardner/status/896465229181210624

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Mnemosyne: And of course, those who rented or borrowed or leased slaves don’t really count, do they?

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Chris says:

    @Elizabelle:

    What’s fascinating is how hard he works to promote Confederate exceptionalism – not just “obviously, white supremacy is a great truth” but “OUR government is the FIRST founded on white supremacy!” It’s a very sharp contrast to his descendants’ mealy-mouthed “but you guys! EVERYBODY was racist back then!” and “blacks sold other blacks!”

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    Brachiator says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Mr. President – we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism.

    Yes!

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    sukabi says:

    @Baud: well, they are looking to make some republican viable for a 2020 run against Drumpf…and Rubio is malleable.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    Another Scott says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: OO isn’t the only one who thought your comment was shockingly out of place in this thread.

    Bernie and Susan aren’t the enemy.

    Trump and his minions are the enemy. Keep a little perspective.

    Eyes on the prize.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Elizabelle: that is a surprise, as he has not been a profile in courage, and he’s a close McConnell ally from what I’ve read.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    Chris says:

    @Brachiator:

    And Germany’s race problems didn’t begin with the Third Reich. Rejecting them isn’t a sufficient step, but it is a necessary step.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Shana: Thank dog she’s okay! I’m sure you’re very proud of her. 🙂

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    Schlemazel says:

    @Elizabelle:
    A pretty good video from Salon Was the Civil War FOught Over Slavery?

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Schlemazel: I am sorry. Nazis are marching with torches and people are driving cars into crowds of anti-fascist marchers, so I am a little bit on edge. David Koch’s reflexive (and, imo, irrelevant*) Sarandon bashing rubbed me the wrong way.

    *Others’ mileage may vary.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    Immanentize says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    At least Lee surrendered. Assholes.

    ETA. I’m listening to Iggy, ” Now I wanna be your dog.”

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    Elizabelle says:

    @Chris: I liked that Stephens thought the abolitionists were the whackadoodles.

    Projection. A major part of white supremacism and revanchist politics, since 1861 1761 1661 … um ….

    Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics.

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    Schlemazel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I get that but you two have been at each other in other threads & in ways that makes me think there is a long battle going on.

    OTOH, I do not think we should ever let Stein or Saranwrap or the others every forget until the fully apologize and admit they were wrong (ala Mike Moore)

    Bad timing & considered, all your reaction seemed harsh. He could have done better

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    Another Scott says:

    @CarolDuhart2: I’m sure you’ll be [surprised]
    that there are a bunch of lies told about Kindly General Lee.

    Or maybe not! :-)

    Keep fighting the good fight!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    The Confederate statue drama is playing out here locally too. In June the county commission voted to let it stay. In July (after intense pressure led by many groups, including the Democratic Party), they reversed course and now plan to remove it as soon as they find a suitable spot. Dumpster sounds good enough to me. Or the bottom of the bay — let it become a reef.

    Like Mayor Landrieu, I grew up walking past these monuments without seeing them. In fact, I never gave them the thought they deserved until a few years ago. I’m ashamed to have been so oblivious.

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    Brachiator says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I have long suspected that those numbers are deliberately cooked.

    The numbers are probably accurate, but that’s not really the issue. The South was a slaveholding society, and free whites were enlisted in various ways to help protect and perpetuate it.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    Jay S says:

    Can we have a Lee Statue pull down like they did to Sadam’s statue in Iraq?

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    Sentient AI from the Future says:

    Re: the south

    Sherman was insufficiently ambitious.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90

    @Jay S: you mean deceptively?

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Mnemosyne: Lots of small farms had a slave or two. It wasn’t an exclusive practice of the big landowners.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    Elizabelle says:

    @Schlemazel: Thank you. Will watch that later, and might put it up on Facebook.

    Incidentally, my rebel yell brother in law unfriended me on FB about a month ago. He of the “the Civil War was all about states’ rights” cult. Laughable, but he is causing real problems for me with my sister and the family.

    Love that your video is by a West Point(!) prof, and found it poignant that post was by the late great Scott Kaufman.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    McAuliffe 2020.

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    NMgal says:

    Funny, the lead-in and link in this comment:
    @Amaranthine RBG

    Is *exactly* the same as a comment left at LGM just now by someone drive-by trolling (different nym).

    Just a strange coincidence, I’m sure.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    Sentient AI from the Future says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: I’ve seen slabs of Himalayan salt used as furniture that were smaller than the grain I’d need to take with anything reputed floor-shitter Chuckles Johnson emits.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    hitchhiker says:

    Tan khakis and white short-sleeved shirts seem to be the uniform of these flaming shitbags. I wonder where they got that look?

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    Mike in NC says:

    Interesting parallel between defeated Confederates of 1865 and defeated Nazi Germans of 1945. In both cases hardcore true believers wanted to take to the hills and wage guerilla warfare rather than give up the fight. Eisenhower and his senior leadership were very concerned about this as there was some hard intelligence that SS units were stockpiling weapons and supplies in the months after the surrender.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    Jay S says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I mean publicly, with cheering crowds. Deception would be fine if necessary. The image would be cathartic.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
  100. 100
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Brachiator:

    There was a vanishingly small middle class that were beholden to the slavers for everything, and the nonwealthy southern populationnwas also beholden. Every pastor, governor, publisher, lawyer, judge, legislator, mayor, doctor, storeowner was heavily propagandize by and in thrall to the slave labor system.

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  102. 102
    Elizabelle says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Terry McAuliffe has been a GREAT governor. Very proud of him, especially not having expected much of him going in. (I thought he was doing it for the resume. No. He has been serious, and as effective as he can be, with a nutjob gerrymandered GOP legislature.)

    He’s very approachable too. I have had more out of towners show off their pics with the governor, when they were roaming around Richmond. Very good guy.

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  103. 103
    Elizabelle says:

    Also, FWIW, sad to report that Terry McAuliffe’s one year old Golden Lab, Guinness, died this week. I still don’t know what happened to the pup, whether it was an accident or what …

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  104. 104
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Aha! I’d bet that it was Coates’s column where I first read that and couldn’t remember where I’d seen it. He has a good point that he’s specifically talking about Confederate soldiers since non-slaveholders in the South were, it seems, less likely to put their lives on the line to protect slavery.

    A representative statistic:

    One in every ten volunteers in 1861 did not own slaves themselves but lived in households headed by non family members who did. This figure, combined with the 36 percent who owned or whose family members owned slaves, indicated that almost one of every two 1861 recruits lived with slaveholders.

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  105. 105
    frosty fred says:

    We never talked about it growing up, but my great-great-grandfather and his brothers were in Lee’s army at Gettysburg, and as I’ve gotten interested in family history I’ve found far more of my ancestors and connections on that side than the other. My mother did tell me once that all our family were “poor people who never owned slaves.” I don’t know whether she believed that, or it was just the standard line; I’ve seen almost exactly the same words elsewhere.

    As it turns out I descend from slave holders in every line; it’s true none of my antebellum ancestors was a large plantation owner, but every one of them owned at least a few slaves or had a parent who did. Since I’ve started working with DNA testing I’ve regularly been connected to distant cousins of predominantly African ancestry.

    I was somewhat cheered to find a fifth-great-uncle whose household included four slaves in 1830, but eight “free colored persons” in 1840; I like to think that means the slaves had been freed and stayed with the household as employes.

    I’ve had people ask me why I find this history shameful; I’ve never known how to answer them.

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  106. 106
    Mnemosyne says:

    @frosty fred:

    My brother has managed to lose the paperwork, but apparently we have ancestors going back to at least Jamestown on my mother’s side. I now know enough about American history to know that that means that we have slaveholders in our ancestry, even though our family mostly lived in the north. I’ve haven’t dug far back enough on Ancestry.com to see which ones, but I know they’re there.

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  107. 107
    sharl says:

    @Another Scott: Yep. Anyone who claimed that Trump would be better than Clinton – even if that ridiculous claim was made over a year ago, as in that link – deserves to have their faces rubbed it in now and again. Having said that, timing matters, and this isn’t the time.

    DSA youngsters (and most of them are youngsters) – many of them probably Sanders supporters – marched with BLM people today, and some were injured by the vehicular homicidal racist. They are worried and sad and angry, but early indications are that this will make them more determined than ever.

    Criticizing them on this day smacks of the worst and most cynical kind of opportunism, and would be entered as evidence by lefties in support of the harshest accusations they make against centrist liberals.

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  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, too, since Cole is proud of his West Virginia roots, let’s mention again that the reason it exists as a separate state at all is because they didn’t want to join the Confederacy and broke off.

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  109. 109
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Mnemosyne: We have a young man in the family tree who simply vanishes between 1861-1865. Lots of speculation that he moved into the Smokey Mountains for the duration; a lot of pro-Union folk did.

    @frosty fred: I really, really want to track down the ancestor who gave me one particular length of DNA. Two of my black cousins triangulate on it. It’s so hard for black family historians to track down the slave owners that I’m kind of hoping that this will turn into the clue they need.

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  110. 110
    Another Scott says:

    @frosty fred: One can’t pick one’s parents. :-)

    Thanks for the story. It’s important to realize that we’re all human and we’re all tied together whether we like it or not.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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  111. 111
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Elizabelle: I didn’t expect much either — I held a mild grudge against him because I thought he was kind of an ass during the Clinton-Obama primary. All is forgiven, guvnah! :)

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  112. 112
    Elizabelle says:

    @frosty fred: Interesting story, and thanks for sharing it. As you investigate further, please update us.

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  113. 113
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @sharl: Thank you. This was the point I should have made.

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  114. 114
    frosty fred says:

    @Another Scott: I quite liked my parents in the event. In fact, my father refused to have anything to do with the only family reunion that side ever had, because it was organized around honoring “the old reprobate” and putting a stone on his previously-unmarked grave. (Even with that, though, he never specified in what way his great-grandfather had been reprehensible.)

    I suppose it adds a dimension to the story to mention that I would not have been available to be ashamed without the Gettysburg chapter, since GGGF was wounded, taken prisoner, and married his nurse.

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  115. 115
    Central Planning says:

    I was flipping between MSNBC and CNN this afternoon, around 4pm, when they put up Pence’s tweet.

    The name on the account said “Nice President Pence”. I’m sure that was their typo, not actually someone ratfucking his account.

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  116. 116
    Keith P. says:

    Jack Kingston is actually ticked off that Trump is catching shit for not using the term “white supremacist”. There is so much irony here….and the anchor JUST nailed him on “This is the same guy who went after people for not using ‘radical Islamic terror'”. Am I a bad person for wishing Jeffrey Lord was up here instead of Kingston?

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  117. 117
    Mnemosyne says:

    Is it too early to be wondering why the cops in Charlottesville seemed to be so drastically underprepared for a series of rallies that were so well-publicized, AirBnB was refusing rooms to the Nazis?

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  118. 118
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne: Could it be they were working a bit too gingerly, so as not to offend the easily offended White Power creeps? Perhaps more cognizant of First Amendment protections, and then events overtook them?

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  119. 119
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Schlemazel: I havent said anything to him in over 2 years. and to our credit, during that time, our infrequent comments have been polite. but a couple of weeks ago he tried smear me with mccarthyite innuendo implying I’m a plant because i detest sanders, which is ridiculous because I’ve been posting here since 2007 in support of obama and democrats; long before the alt-left emerged. But, I let it go, and didn’t say anything. We all have bad days. Yet, there’s only so many times one can ignore unprovoked personal attacks.

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  120. 120
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Elizabelle: At this point I’m inclined to give the cops zero credit for much of anything. They’re totally hands on when it comes to peaceful leftist protests and lawful gatherings of black folks, but nowhere to be found when the armed right shows up. Shoot a black kid to death for having a toy gun in hand, ignore white people with fully automatic assault rifles brandishing them at the public. Their hypocrisy knows few bounds.

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  121. 121
    cain says:

    @Baud:
    I responded to the tweet with “Now we know why they are called the Greatest Generation!”

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  122. 122
    sharl says:

    Virginia governor is now saying three dead, but it’s possible that includes the two who died in the crash of the helicopter that was supporting law enforcement people on the scene, which had already been reported.
    It’s breaking news, so usual precautions apply regarding what to believe.

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  123. 123
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Thanks for reposting MItch Landrieu’s speech, John.

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  124. 124
    cain says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Sorry to pry, what kind of troubles? Is it a matter of him bad mouthing you? Or are you all going after him?

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  125. 125
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Baud: Dingell is a national treasure.

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  126. 126
    fuckwit says:

    @Hungry Joe: I’d rather piss on it

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  127. 127
    Elizabelle says:

    @cain: Him badmouthing me, and alienating me from his family. He is a very good father; his sons adore him, and I can feel the wedge that he’s introduced. Sadly, my two oldest nephews have gone full Southern white boy. Although they are really good guys, too. They are young. I hope they can turn around.

    My sister is a conflict avoider. She’s mentioned husband is playing “Devil’s Advocate” over Trump. Quite honestly, he sees that Trump has bad qualities, but is attracted, too. Same deal as his Southern heritage with the Confederacy. He explains away the Civil War with “it was all about state’s rights,” which is the historical equivalent of being a flat earther. Fun times.

    I decided to give them all a time out, but am sad because the sons are college age and older, and it’s the time they become scarce for a few years. I miss them, and my sister, and that I used to love my BIL, before he turned full hard head.

    Trump the shit midas is helping to tear families apart, and not just those with undocumented parents.

    Thank you for asking. Hope this was not TMI.

    Mostly, when I saw this happening with the BIL, I thought to myself “ah well, you’ve had a charmed life; this is an opportunity to toughen up, and you need to learn that.” I did not expect it would cost me time with my sister — who works all the time — and what little time left with the kids. It’s sad.

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  128. 128
    J R in WV says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And those huge plantation homes weren’t built for husband/wife/kids. They had in-laws, cousins, nephews both resident and moving from mansion to mansion, and all of those shiftless suckers on other peoples’ sweat made their living from slaves.

    So don’t tell me most Confederate Traitors didn’t own slaves. They all benefited from the slaves, even the lowly men who were overseers, who whipped the lazy slaves in the hot sun to make them pick cotton faster.

    Even the less prosperous farms had 3 story houses with full basements water table permitting. With 4 big rooms downstairs, 8 on the second floor, and more on the top floor, all for the white folk, except for a few closets for the house slaves… so they would be handy when mistress called out. Or master come to see them.

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  129. 129
    The Lodger says:

    @Central Planning: Nice President? I think that was Granny Clampett’s title. She didn’t want anything to do with vice.

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  130. 130
    J R in WV says:

    @NMgal:

    Funny, the lead-in and link in this comment:
    @Amaranthine RBG

    Is *exactly* the same as a comment left at LGM just now by someone drive-by trolling (different nym).

    Just a strange coincidence, I’m sure.

    Exactly why I have pied “Amaranthine RBG” since the day Major^4 and Cleek and Alain installed Cleek’s famous software device into Balloon-Juice!!! But I still often read to see what the trolls are saying. And you comment, too, pied though it was.

    Thanks for the update !!

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  131. 131
    J R in WV says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    My paternal grandmother was from a Giles county VA family, I still have distant cousins and such relatives over there. My connection with them came from Giles county VA to Monroe co WV in the late 1800s, then through Greenbrier county and Summers county to the county where I grew up.

    She married a child of Swiss immigrants, so I know he had no connection to southern slaveholders.

    My maternal grandmother was from eastern Kentucky, along the Big Sandy River. Indeed when she was a girl, everything moved on the riverboats. She was educated, and took a bookkeeping job with a coal company in SW WV, where she met a Pennsylvania Dutch blacksmith working as a hoist engineer. Pretty sure he had no connection to southern slaveholders except perhaps to have had a father or grandfather or uncle who fought them in the 1860s.

    I doubt my (maternal) Grandma’s family ever had or were connected to slaveholders. They were too familiar with working for what they needed, going to school to learn about something they could make a living at, etc. Pioneer mountain people, making do and working hard, moving up out of East Tennessee into Kentucky back quite a ways.

    The mountain folks of East Tennessee were more likely to fight for the Union than for the Rebels, this is the origin of the U of Tennessee nickname, “Volunteers” because more Tennesseans volunteered for the Union army than would have been drafted if the state had remained in the Union.

    I think the “Lost Cause” folks have beaten that fact out of the consciousness of everyone in TN, but it is the truth. I have it from an old time mountain man from NW Georgia who studied in Tennessee when people were alive who remembered that war. He was a professor at Emory back a long time ago.

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  132. 132
    NotMax says:

    @J R in WV

    Also why Andrew Johnson was tapped as v.p. for Lincoln’s second term, to help solidify eastern Tennessee’s bonds with the Union.

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  133. 133
    Matt says:

    @showmepillbilly:

    The Confederate flag represents Southern culture, Anna Robb said.

    Let’s go over this again, Confederates: “southern culture” IS white supremacy. You motherfuckers FOUNDED A COUNTRY explicitly based on it – there’s no ambiguity. If you wanna bring “faith” into it, that’s a good sign your “churches” should go into the shredder right after those statues.

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  134. 134
    Obdurodon says:

    I disagree with the idea that such things should be destroyed. Rather, I believe that they should be put in purpose-built museums, with placards and photographs illustrating their connection to the horrors of slavery and civil war. Let people who are tempted to believe in American exceptionalism visit those museums and learn how such feelings have been used before, luring our own countrymen into the greatest evil and folly. We must continually re-learn those lessons, and to learn we must acknowledge. This was the approach evident in Berlin when I visited last year, regarding the original Nazis, and it seemed much more effective than mere suppression. Destroy the symbol’s appeal, not the symbol itself.

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