Charlottesville Today (Open Thread)

Here are some tweets from reporters covering the Nazi parade:

Anti-Nazi protesters chanting, “We’re here! We’re gay! We fight the KKK!”

Nazi scum chanting “Fuck you, faggots!”

Militia goons surrounding a park:

Looks like it’s the wrong park too. Thanks for radicalizing these fucking geniuses, NRA!

Do you think Donald Trump will find a moment, perhaps on the golden throne, to tap out a tweet condemning the fact that honest-to-Christ Nazis are terrorizing an American city today? Hell no. They’re his base.

On the bright side, reporters are saying the anti-Nazi counter-protest is shaping up to be much larger than the Nazi march. Stay safe, counter-protesters.

Open thread.

188 replies
  1. 1
    Trentrunner says:

    This is fine.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    debbie says:

    Do the cops not have a problem with those armed militia clowns alongside them?

  4. 4

    reporters are saying the anti-Nazi counter-protest is shaping up to be much larger than the Nazi march

    Ah, good, that is what I was hoping for. They have done their damnedest to rig the situation so they won’t have to be outnumbered, thus the march last night and probably the changing location today. They need it constantly ground in that they are a tiny minority and live under the threat of a vast, hostile majority. That is the only thing that prevents them from campaigns of violence. Bullies depend on an overwhelming advantage.

  5. 5
    trollhattan says:

    Militia with semi-auto rifles surround the park

    The “open carry” thing has really calmed down a nervous nation. As to the “semi-auto” bit I’ll bet my next paycheck at least a few are no longer “semi.” #LeadPoisoningisPermanent

  6. 6
    Shana says:

    Haven’t heard from my daughter yet – UVA Law School grad who’s down there as a legal observer/aid – and am slightly concerned. Not much as she’s pretty sensible, but still a little concerned.

    ETA: got a text at 11:03 saying she’s still safe.

  7. 7
    hitchhiker says:

    @acluva is a good twitter feed right now.

    Also where the eff is Terry McAuliffe?

  8. 8
    MJS says:

    Someone should tell those fuck wits their camo isn’t working. I can see them plain as day.

  9. 9
    cope says:

    Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit drinking.

  10. 10
    dr. bloor says:

    @debbie: They probably don’t have much of a say in the matter.

    It will be a miracle if the day ends without a body count.

  11. 11
    bystander says:

    Joy Reid on MSNBC is covering live.

  12. 12
    trollhattan says:

    I’ll put the ratio at 80:20 for Getthefuckouttahere:I’dbewithyouifIweren’tworking.

  13. 13

    Thank You counter protesters.

  14. 14
    Kay says:

    Donald Trump has to denounce them. Oh, right. No he doesn’t. Any other President would have to, but not our pampered toddler-President. We have a special, lower standard for Trump.

  15. 15
    theflax says:

    It’s the right park. Charlottesville tried to get the rally moved from this semi-residential neighborhood to a park outside of town but (thanks in part to the dumbasses at the ACLU) they were denied.

  16. 16
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  17. 17
    hovercraft says:

    I’m glad she safe.

    Fucking Twitler must be so proud. I wonder when he’ll tweet about the anti Neo-Nazi thugs who’ve attacked peaceful patriots marching in defense of Real American Heritage.

  18. 18
    Splitting Image says:

    As a historical note: the phrase “Unite the Right” was coined in Canada during the 1990s by a Mr. Frum, with whom some of you might be familiar.

    The official purpose of the “Unite the Right” movement was to bring together the conservative movement, which was at the time split into three factions. The real purpose was to instill a belief that “uniting the right” depended on the centrists making however many concessions the radical right demanded to keep them in the party. The results are as you see above.

    I wonder if Mr. Frum can be reached for comment.

  19. 19
    Mike R says:

    The lack of self awareness of these militia jerks is over whelming. As someone who comes from a family of WWI and WWII combat veterans and as Vietnam veteran they are just such a bunch of degenerate fucks and wannabes my absolute disgust with them is indescribable. How they can do this in public, simply pathetic, oh crap what a bunch of fucking punks.

  20. 20
    Kay says:

    When career employees of the Environmental Protection Agency are summoned to a meeting with the agency’s administrator, Scott Pruitt, at agency headquarters, they no longer can count on easy access to the floor where his office is, according to interviews with employees of the federal agency.
    Doors to the floor are now frequently locked, and employees have to have an escort to gain entrance.
    Some employees say they are also told to leave behind their cellphones when they meet with Mr. Pruitt, and are sometimes told not to take notes.
    Mr. Pruitt, according to the employees, who requested anonymity out of fear of losing their jobs, often makes important phone calls from other offices rather than use the phone in his office, and he is accompanied, even at E.P.A. headquarters, by armed guards, the first head of the agency to ever request round-the-clock security.

    Another low quality Trump hire. I love the massive security presence around these people. The US Secretary of Education now spends millions of dollars monthly on her personal security force. Someone should tell her she’s not that important to most people. Is she afraid the unwashed masses will get access to her super-secret school voucher plan?

    VIP’s, baby. Very Important People. Their ideas must really suck if they’re this terrified of the public finding out about any of them.

    Bring Mooch back, with his expensive sunglasses and celebrity posse. At least he was entertaining.

  21. 21
    MJS says:

    A couple things – I think we can dispense with the term “Neo-Nazi”. 99.9% of the “original” Nazis are dead, so the ones we have now can simply be called “Nazis”. Also, what is it with a large portion of white Americans identifying with the causes of vanquished foes? From the Confederacy, to Nazis, and now with the losers of the Cold War, these guys really like siding with history’s losers.

  22. 22
    p.a. says:


    sadly accurate. sadly, better political commentary in comics than elsewhere

  23. 23
    Shana says:

    @Shana: Just got another text saying she’s seen a few beatings and “Bit of tear gas but I haven’t had it bad so far”. Don’t know if that means she’s been exposed to it or just seen it deployed.

  24. 24
    Mike R says:

    @MJS: They identify with there own kind, losers and shitheads.

  25. 25
    lamh36 says:

    @Kay: i don’t even know why they think Donald Trump will be a comforting force..he’s is the gasoline the inflamed them

  26. 26
    raven says:

    @Mike R: Roger that.

  27. 27
    hovercraft says:

    @Splitting Image:
    This is why even though many people on the right are now staunchly anti Twitler, I do not embrace them, they have too much to answer for. Frum blames Obama for the rise of Twitler, and he hasn’t apologized for his axis of evil bs. Fuck him.

    Jennifer Rubin is more honest, she acknowledges that Twitler is a symptom not the disease.

  28. 28
    bemused says:

    @Splitting Image:

    Today we see in Charlottesville these Neo-Nazi’s attempting to fulfill their dream of “Unite Under the Alt-Right”.

  29. 29
    sukabi says:

    Pastor literally pulled out of interview with Joy Reid

    Security guard grabbed her and removed her for her own safety.

  30. 30
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The same rule that applies to the Village applies to Nazis.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    As long as we don’t call them deplorable. That would be beyond the pale.

  32. 32
    lamh36 says:

    ‪Fuq You Chris Cillizza …mighty white if you to be able to just ignore them…some of us are their targets and can’t just ignore them‬

  33. 33
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    She’s afraid of what people will do to her when it’s revealed she plans to recommend to have all public schools closed and funds allocated to build shitty failing charter schools that everyone will be forced to attend.

  34. 34
    NobodySpecial says:

    @lamh36: Maybe his bosses could quit hiring their apologists.

  35. 35
    lamh36 says:

    ‪Prediction: WH issues statement with no outright condemnation but instead praise of police & local govt, & comment on counter protestors‬

  36. 36
    Splitting Image says:


    This is why even though many people on the right are now staunchly anti Twitler, I do not embrace them, they have too much to answer for. Frum blames Obama for the rise of Twitler, and he hasn’t apologized for his axis of evil bs. Fuck him.


  37. 37
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    A hockey team is disavowing the Nazis in Charlottesville before the President of the United States

  38. 38
    lamh36 says:

    Them: racism will be over when these old racist white supremacists die.

    Us: Oh really?

    #Charlottesville #NoConfederate

  39. 39
    El Caganer says:

    @lamh36: Ignoring them is about the worst thing anybody could suggest – it will just convince them that you’re afraid of them.

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: How did the Red Wings get wrapped up into this?

  41. 41
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  42. 42
    Another Scott says:

    @hitchhiker: He declared a state of emergency.



  43. 43
  44. 44
    Baud says:


    Yes, Ignore the Nazis. Let’s instead focus on how GoogleBro was wronged.

  45. 45
    Adam C says:

    Trump will lie about anything, go back and forth as the wind blows, and forget what he said 10 minutes ago. But he does not, ever, criticize fascists, white supremacists, or Putin.

  46. 46
    raven says:

    Woo, motherfucker with a confederate flag with a nice big lump of his head!! I guess these badasses aren’t really locked and loaded.

  47. 47

    @Baud: But they are pale and proud of it.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    Why don’t we burn Confederate flags more?

  49. 49
    zhena gogolia says:


    Thank you for that. I get so sick of this line. At least if you’re old enough, you know that racist scum are a constantly renewable resource, not limited to the older generations.

  50. 50
    trollhattan says:


    Bring Mooch back, with his expensive sunglasses and celebrity posse. At least he was entertaining.

    Agree, Mooch captured the Trump zeitgeist perfectly–the Bronx-born Manhattanite-wannabe president’s doppelganger.

  51. 51
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I can’t imagine that this demonstration accomplishes anything but making the demonstrators look insane and malevolent. What’s the point, to complain that left protests get friendly coverage but theirs don’t? Or to provoke a reaction like Fred Phelps? Because, ya know, people in general don’t like contorted-faced shouters with guns and torches.

  52. 52
    Baud says:


    insane and malevolent

    That’s considered presidential these days.

  53. 53
    raven says:

    @FlipYrWhig: There are people that would be just thrilled if someone got killed.

    The Greensboro massacre is the term for an event which took place on November 3, 1979, when members of the Communist Workers’ Party and others demonstrated in a “Death to the Klan” march in Greensboro, North Carolina, United States. The CWP, which had advocated that Klan members should be “physically beaten and chased out of town”, engaged in a shootout with members of the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party.[1] Four members of the Communist Workers’ Party, and one other individual were killed and eleven other demonstrators and a Klansman were wounded. The CWP had supported workers’ rights activism among mostly black textile industrial workers in the area.[2][3]

  54. 54
    Flanders' Other Neighbor says:

    Paging Jake and Elwood Blues.

  55. 55
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam C:

    Trump will lie about anything, go back and forth as the wind blows, and forget what he said 10 minutes ago. But he does not, ever, criticize fascists, white supremacists, or Putin.

    The terrorist attack on the mosque in Minnesota was a week ago. Has Trump said anything, including diddly or squat, about that yet? Let alone condemning the perpetrators?

  56. 56
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Last I heard, they were waiting to confirm liberals didn’t do it.

  57. 57
    Amir Khalid says:

    Isn’t that a bit harsh on the American Civil Liberties Union? If I recall rightly, their mission includes defending the freedom of all speech, not just agreeable speech, and they are obliged to defend it for neo-Nazis just as they are obliged to defend it for the majority who oppose neo-Nazis.

  58. 58
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Kay: I’m so tired of the Toddler in Chief. He is – as you first noted – an aggressively bad person. And he’s aspirational for these assholes – they want to be mean, bullying, proudly ignorant, racist, and dishonest, without suffering social or legal consequences. He is, so why can’t they? Of course he won’t denounce this – it’s a group of his most enthusiastic supporters.

  59. 59
    lamh36 says:

    Tweet from National FOP

    Join us in praying for the cops in #Charlottesville as they try to protect the racists and the protesters each. Nearly impossible job

  60. 60
    Kathleen says:

    @debbie: Haven’t scrolled thru comments but per CBS News police declared area unsafe and left. The reporter said she’s never seen that happen before.

    ETA apologies if this was already covered.

  61. 61
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: That’s not bad. Accurately labeling each group.

  62. 62
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    The NYT has a story today about how Trump’s base loves his “fire and fury” shit. Duh. Why don’t you tell us something we don’t know? Why do you give these morons a megaphone?

  63. 63
    lamh36 says:

    They are the employers. They are the children and relatives of the employers. Stop pretending these people are hiding who they are.

  64. 64
    BretH says:

    Woo, motherfucker with a confederate flag with a nice big lump of his head!!

    And thus is born a martyr for The Cause. Which enables more victimization claims and more recruiting. I think they should have just been ignored except for contemptful looks from passers-by. Thus any violence would have been of their own making. Ignore them if they are being lawful and throw their asses in jail when they step out of line.

  65. 65
    Jeffro says:

    Any & all blood is on your hands, GOP – you enabled the Klown-In-Kchief, you own this.

  66. 66
    Kathleen says:

    @Shana: Sending prayers for your daughter. Bless her brave soul and heart!

  67. 67
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @Baud: I have not been following closely, but apparently the Nazis are using the Red Wing symbol.

  68. 68
    Betty Cracker says:

    @lamh36: That sounds about right. If he says anything at all, that is.

  69. 69
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Amir Khalid: As I recall the first anyone ever heard of Glenn Greenwald was his defending a neo-Nazi demonstrator. I don’t think it was an ACLU case but it was thematically similar to previous ones in which they’d taken an interest.

  70. 70
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s not raining yet here in CT, I assume not in NJ, so he’s probably busy.

  71. 71
    raven says:

    @BretH: Fuck him

  72. 72
    Sab says:

    @Baud: In order to burn a confederate flag you have to buy them, and nobody wants to send money to the kind of people who sell confederate flags.

  73. 73
    Jeffro says:

    We’ll hear from Obama and Clinton well before we hear from Twitler on this.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @Sab: Good point. Thanks.

  75. 75
    Jeffro says:

    @Sab: I would definitely buy some Confederate-flag toilet paper, though.

  76. 76
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    Fat Steve Bannon must be so proud. Those are his peeps! Loathsome toads, the lot of them. Racism is alive and well in an embarrassingly large swathe of white America.

  77. 77
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @FlipYrWhig: What it demonstrates is that they can be insane and malevolent as much as they want, and we can’t do anything about it. A show of power. Being outrageous and even ridiculous is part of the act. The point is that this is OK now, that their side runs things, they’ve got the guns and nobody dares laugh.

  78. 78
    Baud says:

    Why is Atrios considered a respected blogger? I’m about to remove him from my RSS.

  79. 79
    lamh36 says:

    Marsha Blackburn: I’m sure Trump disagrees with this but he’s probably busy monitoring North Korea right now

    She really said that

    oh. but he can tweet any damn time bout his poll numbers or this and that…but he’s quiet ok this🙄🙄

  80. 80
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @cope: @9.
    “Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit drinking”.
    I’ll drink to that!

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Exactly. And what are we going to do about it? Vote for people who don’t support single payer? Pshaw.

  82. 82
    Betty Cracker says:

    Whoa — good for Leahy!

  83. 83
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: What did he do?

  84. 84
  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:


    March & rally in Charlottesville against everything the flag stands for. President Trump must condemn in strongest terms immediately.

  86. 86
    Dr. Bloor says:

    @Amir Khalid: Quite right. These things tend to serve as a test of just how much you value the 1A.

  87. 87
    Jeffro says:

    @lamh36: Marsha, you’re kidding right? He’s out on the 9th hole, trying to putt for double-bogey…someone will let him know if North Korea lets loose.

  88. 88
    lamh36 says:

    And just think, there are people who will still be more offended at Kaepernick kneeling than this… #Charlottesville

  89. 89
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’m finding him especially whiny lately about how we’re not introspective enough.

  90. 90
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: Late to the thread, but this belongs up top if you can. Of course the pres hasn’t said anything, because he’s one of them.

  91. 91
    Elizabelle says:

    @zhena gogolia: Saw that story. Back to writing my “Dear New York Times” cancellation letter. In my head so far.

    Disgusting. FTF NYT. They’re not merely reporting. They are normalizing.

  92. 92
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker: @Baud: GOOD – Dems should pile the holy hell right on Orangemandias’ fat ass about this. Let’s hear what he chooses to say about this…let’s make sure Dems, independents, non-Trumpkin Republicans hear every last one of his 140 characters about it.

  93. 93
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Baud: I haven’t kept up with recent output but AFAICT he’s been a tedious dipshit coasting on fumes since 2004.

  94. 94
    Chris says:


    Frakk that. My ass deserves better than Confederate toilet paper.

  95. 95
    lamh36 says:

    POTUS chafed at getting asked about David Duke during the campaign. Today Duke marches in POTUS name

  96. 96
    Jeffro says:

    @JPL: Ugh. Did David Duke have some sort of plastic surgery or something? Or is that just what happens to people when they join HYDRA?

  97. 97
    Jeffro says:

    @Chris: True, but the Confederate flag most definitely deserves to be crapped upon.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Even when I find him less annoying, I can’t recall anything insightful he has ever said. It’s just cynical drips and drabs. He’s not always wrong, but it’s not very illuminating.

  99. 99
    A Ghost to Most says:

    @MJS: I call them unamerican fascists.

  100. 100
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @lamh36: @32.
    Hi lamh. You can always count on Cilliza to say something mind-blowingly stupid. We must always, ALWAYS stand up against white supremacists.

  101. 101
    Shana says:

    @Jeffro: I’m sure he’s had plastic surgery. Look at old pictures of him, that’s not aging, that’s “work”.

  102. 102
    Another Scott says:

    @Baud: As I read him in his top post on his site at the moment, his main point – and I agree with it – is that blaming the voters is a bad approach. Candidates have to convince voters to support them, not the other way around.

    I think he puts far too little emphasis on things like voter suppression, gerrymandering, and all the rest.

    But the general point that our candidates need to do better isn’t wrong (even if it is kinda tautological).



  103. 103
    lamh36 says:

    Oh they sent Melanie out to tweet but not cheeto🙄🙄

    Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville

  104. 104
    Jeffro says:

    @lamh36: Thanks Melania! Which side has the hate and violence thing going, again?


  105. 105
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Melania provides a vapid generality. Nothing from her husband yet.

  106. 106
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott: It is tautological, and he never offers anything.

    And blaming voters is not wrong, when the other side’s voters are inspired by hate. Our potential voters need to understand that we will protect them.

  107. 107
    A Ghost to Most says:

    @Mike R:
    I didn’t serve in Vietnam, but I am a VW era volunteer, and I’m right there with you.

  108. 108
    Chris says:


    Is it petty that after so many instances of cops doing to black people exactly what the Nazis want, and the Blue Wall of Silence backing then up, I’m not inclined to pray for cops right now? Let them earn their paychecks for once.

  109. 109
    JPL says:

    @lamh36: hahaha When she walks out and slams the door behind her, I’ll believe she cares about our country.

  110. 110
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    This is way off-topic, I know, but are the makers of Red Wing boots any relation to the Detroit ice-hockey team?

  111. 111
    lamh36 says:

    Charlottesville is not a Southern problem; it’s an American problem. Racism and Nazis are in every state.

  112. 112
    Yutsano says:

    @Shana: It’s nerve wracking. A good friend is doing his doctorate in physics there. Fortunately he’s not there right now (he’s at a convention) but he’ll have to come back to the scars. And wonder if any of his students were involved.

  113. 113
    trollhattan says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Ugh. Props to team management for making perfectly clear their feelings about this misappropriation

  114. 114
    Kathleen says:

    @Baud: He lost my respect a long time ago.

  115. 115
    Chris says:


    Well, send the toilet paper to prisons. Make the Aryan Brothers shit on their own flag?

  116. 116
    Betty Cracker says:

    So Melania Trump finally addresses it:

    Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville

    Sounds like she’s talking about a regrettable conflict in which both sides make valid points but need to chill. Is it so hard to condemn motherfucking Nazis in unambiguous terms? Still nothing from Trump.

    Recall that Trump immediately tweets about terrorist attacks in France, Belgium, etc., if he suspects the perps are Muslim.

  117. 117
    trollhattan says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    It teeters on ‘boff sides” without stating explicitly. I’d think a European citizen would feel compelled to explicitly denounce Nazism wherever it appears.

  118. 118
    lamh36 says:

    JK Rowling

    Hell of a day for the President to forget how to tweet.

  119. 119
    Mike in NC says:

    Has anybody seen Bannon and Gorka taking selfies with the Alt-Right goons?

  120. 120
    JPL says:

    @Chris: If there were a local rally, I’d be tempted to buy a confederate flag in order to burn it in front of the assholes.

  121. 121
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    Can’t we get Jared in there to fix things? He could have Ivanka stand by and stare vacantly to help.

  122. 122
    Mnemosyne says:


    It’s a well-known fact that ignoring them is the WORST tactic you can use. It makes them think that what they’re doing is okay. The only thing that works is to counter-protest in such huge numbers that they back down.

  123. 123
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Betty Cracker: “Let’s not bicker about who brought flaming torches and racial slurs to whose peaceful community.”

  124. 124
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @Amir Khalid: I have no idea, but I wore Red Wing boots for a long time.

  125. 125
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Amir Khalid: I don’t think so since the boots are a MN company. “Research” reveals, per wiki, the name change was to suck up to the auto industry.

  126. 126
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @Baud: Dont forget the DNC with their Donuts/water munitions.

  127. 127
    Jeffro says:

    @trollhattan: you’re exactly right – it is pablum designed to fool low information folks into thinking that someone in the trump administration condemned it.

    I want to hear from the great orange one himself

    Come on trump, what are you waiting for? Scum

  128. 128
    lamh36 says:


    I personally saw Ferguson police use crushing force against protesters for much less than what the Nazis in Charlottesville are doing today.

    They had snipers trained on unarmed and peaceful crowds merely protesting, before the slightest hint of violence emerged.

    So when you say, that Nazis have the right to protest because everyone has that right, remember that not everyone does in practice.

  129. 129
    Caphilldcne says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: RMNB is nearly a daily visit from me. One of the best hockey blogs in the nation. My first hockey fandom is the Wings but the Caps are right up there. This is so upsetting yet somehow unsurprising that some Michigan right wing morons would try to steal the wings logo. I’m truly sad about the republicanization and wingnutieness of my beautiful home state. In retrospect it’s been going on forever.

  130. 130
    Baud says:


    Our nation is defined by the march of progress. Our strength lies in our diversity. We must reject hate. #Charlottesville

    Kamala Harris

    This is un-American. We must all stand against hatred and bigotry. Our unity is our strength and diversity is our power.

  131. 131
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: Melania can go to hell. She claimed she was going to make online bullying her “cause” and says nothing when he own husband is one of the worst offenders. This tweet is nothing more than normalizing the white supremacists, Nazis and fascists. Condemning violence on “both sides.” Morals and ethics mean nothing to these people.

  132. 132
    Amir Khalid says:

    I don’t think Trump will dare say anything. He doesn’t want his base to turn on him.

  133. 133
    Quinerly says:

    Just started reading this. Having my first Saturday beer.

  134. 134
    trollhattan says:

    I wouldn’t worry too much about random folks in the rather large metro area. A year ago we had a ton of skinheads and antifas bashing and stabbing the snot out of one another three miles from my casa and I didn’t even know anything was happening, other than an odd surfeit of helicopters for a Saturday.

  135. 135
    Baud says:

    @Amir Khalid: If he says anything, it won’t be anything in conflict with his base.

  136. 136
    lamh36 says:

    So the @PWCGOP, which contributed to the environment that enabled this, tries desperately to walk it back.

    Let’s be very clear about what’s happening in #Charlottesville. There is nothing conservative about white nationalism or racial supremacy.

    But of course they don’t mind their votes, do they

  137. 137
    A Ghost to Not says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Thanks. I hope the Red Wings sue them into hell.

  138. 138

    @Matt McIrvin:
    A big part is that they believe the country is ready for a race war, that there is a vast, many millions army of whites ready to join them if they hear the call. This has never happened, and when the serious neo-Nazi types gather it’s pathetically small, about like this. Yes, most whites think they’re only a little extreme, but have zero intention of getting off their ass about it. It’s almost exactly like the socialist revolution idiocy, except at least socialists have basically good goals.

    @Betty Cracker:
    The point is exactly that being a neo-Nazi and preaching the violent elimination of minorities is a perfectly legitimate viewpoint that should be allowed as much room as any other. This is a statement of approval, just a wimpy one.

  139. 139
    Chris says:


    This. I’d put my money on trollish tweets calculated to outrage liberals.

  140. 140
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Baud: @84.
    Have you read of any Republican senators denouncing this travesty and calling for trump to denounce?
    (I’ll donate 100 bucks to a charity/candidate of your choice if you find a single national Republican senator).

  141. 141
    Cheryl Rofer says:

  142. 142
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Voltaire never met Julius Streicher.

  143. 143
  144. 144
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @pamelabrown53: Orin Hatch has. Other GOP Senators? Silent.

  145. 145
    Baud says:

    @pamelabrown53: I don’t really follow them. MSNBC read some statements from some random GOP people.

  146. 146
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    @Caphilldcne: Thanks! Not being a hockey fan, I didn’t know about RMNB. I like to have my news sources confirmed.

  147. 147
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: More than “don’t mind their votes” they need those white supremacists’ votes. Otherwise they won’t get elected. The racists, fascists, white supremacists and Nazis are the GOP base.

  148. 148
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @lamh36: This has been pointed out to them in numerous replies.

  149. 149
    Cheryl Rofer says:

    Republican senator.

  150. 150
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Who is that?

  151. 151
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Elizabelle: @90.
    Yes, the are normalizing which is why the “Vichy Edition” should be the added caveat.

  152. 152
    NeenerNeener says:

    @Baud: I still visit his blog every Thanksgiving to re-read the “Preznit giv me turkee’ post. It’s become a tradition.

  153. 153
    Kay says:



    She gives up the right to lecture me about hate when her family rises to power on promoting the blatantly racist “birther” conspiracy. She gave up the moral high ground. They can’t have both, the Trumps. They can’t have power based on racist themes and the moral high ground. They have to choose.

    I get that they’re privileged, entitled people and they believe they should have both but credibility is earned and none of them have earned it. Trump is a nasty piece of work and his administration reflects his character. They can dress it up all they like but it all goes back to the small, petty asshole at the top.

  154. 154
    mouse tolliver says:

    So this happened a couple days ago. Chuck Todd shames the Democratic Party for not being more welcoming to the Confederate flag flying crowd. His comment happens near the end of this Tom Perez interview.

    Fuck Chuck Todd!

    First thing I saw on the news today was a neo-Nazi waving a Nazi flag between two white supremacists waving Confederate flags. Fuck Chuck for trying to normalize their hate. Fuck Chuck for trying to shame Democrats into accepting a symbol of hate.

    Establishment Dems need to wake up though. Perez had a weak response to that question. This is asymmetrical warfare. The time for outreach and conciliatory rhetoric is over. If this was about anything but racism the WWC wouldn’t throw their support to the party that is openly opposed to a “livable wage.”

  155. 155
    Kay says:

    Wouldn’t it be the attorney general’s role to denounce race-based hatred? Oh, right. He’s a low quality hire too. No help there! We may be down to some assistant secretary level before we find a decent Trump hire. The top tier clearly aren’t up to the challenge.

  156. 156
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    What brew?

  157. 157
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    It’s only just after ten here, but I’ll join you in that beer before too long, I suspect.

    I’m a total uber geekster, but I wish Star Trek were the reality: humans of all colors working alongside Vulcans, Klingons, Dinibean Slime Devils…

    Can we make it so?

  158. 158
    ThresherK says:

    @Baud: Internal monologue, each:

    I can’t believe I have to repeat this, but Nazis and race supremacists are bad!

  159. 159
    Lurking Canadian says:

    The image above points to something in the “open carry” movement that doesn’t make sense. (Well, the whole movement doesn’t make sense, but this in particular.)

    There must be a way for the government to pass a law against armed rebellion. That’s what this is. These are not individual housewives bringing their AR-15 to the Kroger. This is a battalion of hostile riflemen occupying a public square. Sure they haven’t shot anybody yet. Lee’s forces probably didn’t shoot anybody in Pennsylvania before the first day of Gettysburg either, but that doesn’t make them not an invading army.

    And if the police have really fled the scene because they’re scared…fuck them. When did cowardice on duty become such an acceptable thing to claim?

  160. 160
    Caphilldcne says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: this just sent me wandering around the web and yeah just seems to be because the new owner was involved with a Montreal bicycling club and liked their logo plus thought it would ingratiate him with the Detroit auto magnates. It turns out Red Wing Minnesota (home to the shoes/boots) is named after an Indian chief from the area. Which surprised me because I was pretty sure that the town and the team were both named after the red wing blackbird. I really should have known that. Fortunately I can say with confidence that my other team the Washington Capitals are named after the practice of capitalizing names and first letters in sentences.

  161. 161
  162. 162
    Kay says:

    I know Obama is a private citizen and he did his time but since it’s clear Donald Trump is fucking obsessed with Obama in a small, jealous way, wouldn’t it be fun if Obama goaded him?

    Like a red flag in front of a particularly dense and elderly bull. I would completely enjoy it and if he plays it right he could keep Trump busy for months, which will limit damage to the rest of us.

    Just a tweet once a week. 30-40 seconds of his time :)

  163. 163
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: Melania never has had any right to tell the rest of us what to do. She sold herself for money when she married the racist shitbag. If that’s how she wants to live her life, whatever, her choice. She doesn’t get to then turn around and lecture the rest of us on morals and ethics. She’s a fraud.

  164. 164
    Caphilldcne says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: it’s an awesome site and occasionally breaks interesting news and are generally very reliable.

  165. 165
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Exactly right. Melania doesn’t really care. She’s only doing this for appearance’s sake

  166. 166
    Quinerly says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):
    I held off until 11:45 AM here in St. Louis. Sitting here at a cafe, outside with brunch friends, gazing at Anheuser Busch Brewery, drinking a local, craft IPA. Inside, they just turned on MSNBC. I was trying so hard to tune out and drop out today….but I digress…..

  167. 167
    El Caganer says:

    @Kay: The only thing Sessions would denounce about race-based hatred is that there isn’t enough of it.

  168. 168
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    And if the police have really fled the scene because they’re scared…fuck them. When did cowardice on duty become such an acceptable thing to claim?

    If they’re so scared why not call in neighboring police forces for reinforcements? Is that a thing that can be done?

  169. 169
    Quinerly says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):
    Local craft…a very hoppy I PA brewed by 4 Hands Brewery here in St. Louis. I live 3 blocks from AB and don’t drink AB products….

  170. 170
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: @138.
    Cheryl, I clicked on your link and got a “This Page Doesn’t Exist” notification. Can you fix?

  171. 171
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Excelllent! Where can I find his statement?

  172. 172
    pamelabrown53 says:

    :) <3.

  173. 173
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Same here.

    ETA: It’s gone on long and often enough now that I’m beginning to think that’s the Twitter version of rickrolling. I don’t think there is such a picture. No other news anywhere of Spencer getting arrested in Charlottesville.

  174. 174
    thaflax says:

    @Amir Khalid: No. They defended hate speech, not simply disagreeable speech, and helped make a bad situation worse. CVille wan’t banning the protest, just trying to move it to a spot with fewer people and businesses after leaning that more people were going to attend than noted on the initial permit application. ALCU had no business weighing in, although I guess it helps burnish their BOTH SIDES DO IT bona fides

  175. 175
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    @El Caganer: He denounces whatever scheduling conflict prevents him from attending.

  176. 176
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Quinerly: @163.
    Are you at Howard’s? Wherever you are, have a delightful day.

  177. 177
    pamelabrown53 says:

    Wouldn’t be the first time (we’d been rickrolled).

  178. 178
    Shalimar says:

    @Lurking Canadian: it isn’t the open carry law that is the problem. It is a symptom. All previous rally evidence from the last 2 years strongly suggests that if it was the NAACP that was ringing a protest site with members carrying semi-automatic weapons, police would have arrested all of them and sorted out the legalities later.

  179. 179
    theflax says:

    @hitchhiker: He’s been on top of it; among other things he declared a state of emergency before the rally was even supposed to start. Stop implying/assuming he’s a bad governor.

  180. 180
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    If she were a food, she’d be gluey risotto: flavorless, empty calories.

  181. 181
    Quinerly says:

    Frazer’s. Friend now from Eureka Springs staying with me awhile. Another friend now from Yosemite visiting. They picked the spot. Hope all is well with you. Come back for a visit!

  182. 182
    Steeplejack says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    No relation. “Red Wing” was sort of a regional meme, for lack of a better word, in Michigan and Minnesota. There was a famous Dakota Sioux chief by that name in the early 19th century, and the name was well known. There is a town in Minnesota called Red Wing, dating from the 1850s.

  183. 183
  184. 184
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Chris: What the fuck are the cops not doing at the Nazi rally? Not enough black people to beat up?

  185. 185

    @Mnemosyne: Exactly.

    Back in the glorious days of a misspent youth when I hung out in punk clubs in the 80s, the punks would literally punch any skinhead Neo-Nazi who showed up.

    Because, based on experience, if you didn’t, the more and more of them would show up until they drove away everyone else. FWIW, club management would turn a blind eye to this of street preventative measures, because they didn’t want those sorts of skinheads around either.

  186. 186
    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio) says:

    @lamh36: Representative Blackburn’s devotion to the GOP is exceeded only by her self-absorbed stupidity.

  187. 187
    trnc says:

    There must be a way for the government to pass a law against armed rebellion.

    No need for a law. It’s already covered.

    Section. 8.

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; … To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    What we really need is for people to learn that the 2nd Amendment is not a non-sequitur and that the militia to which 2A refers are the same militia that are strictly regulated per other articles of the constitution.

  188. 188
    Another Scott says:

    @trnc: Good points. Thanks.


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