The Best Words (Open Thread)

First Kim Jong-Un said…

Then Kim Jong-Orange said…

As I mentioned on Twitter, wolves, lacking thumbs, are uniquely unsuited to the task of performing strangulation, whereas nuclear warfare is all about unleashing fire and fury. To be fair, Kim Jong-Un could be the victim of poor translation or may be employing some obscure local idiom that doesn’t resonate in another language (Americans who are temporarily plagued by phlegm, try telling foreigners you have “a frog in my throat” — you’ll get quizzical looks!). But let’s say Twitler wins this round of blood-curdling threats issued by nuclear-armed narcissists with bad hairdos.

One phrase in Twitler’s full statement (such as it is) troubles me even more than the fire and fury part: “frankly power.” Thanks to his father’s industrious bigotry and avarice, Trump has felt powerful all his life. His increasingly unhinged behavior since he was sworn in strikes me as the steady decompensation of a walking collection of untreated personality disorders who is confronted for the first time, at age 70, with intolerable limits on his power. Let’s hope he doesn’t fixate on ICBMs as unnatural male enhancement.

Open thread!

183 replies
  1. 1
    GregB says:

    Think of all of the start ups and investment opportunities in a post nuclear apocalypse will offer.

  2. 2
    MisterForkbeard says:

    In Adam’s previous thread, I said This and I’ll say it again: As someone who works near and commutes through San Francisco, I now have a nontrivial fear of having a nuke land near me.

    It’s probably still not likely, but this statement just made it much MORE likely than it was a day ago or even 5 hours ago.

  3. 3
    JCJ says:

    Eh, I’ll just ignore them and focus on today being International Cat Day!

    Happy day, Schrodingers cat!

  4. 4
    lollipopguild says:

    Maybe we should lock these two morans in a steel cage for a death match. The winner is taken out and shot.

  5. 5
    Dnfree says:

    Shock and awe. Works great.

  6. 6

    Trump has felt powerful all his life.

    Trump has been terrified of any situation in which he does not have overwhelming power all his life.

  7. 7
  8. 8
    Betty Cracker says:

    Wouldn’t you know it — there’s an old Trump tweet for this situation too!

  9. 9

    How exactly do you strangle somebody with a pack of wolves?

  10. 10

    @JCJ: Thanks! At my house every day is a cat day.

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    they will be met with fire, fury and frankly power

    Since Trump always lies, this is good news.

  12. 12
    Bobby Thomson says:

    So basically, eat the pie.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Mike J says:

    Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.”

  15. 15
    trollhattan says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    How exactly do you strangle somebody with a pack of wolves?

    String them into an attractive necklace, with a slip knot.

  16. 16
    Mike J says:

    @Betty Cracker: Also:

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
    The global warming we should be worried about is the global warming caused by NUCLEAR WEAPONS in the hands of crazy or incompetent leaders!
    8:53 PM – 7 May 2014

  17. 17
    Immanentize says:


    I understand why this sounds super scary, but it is not really all that plausible. It seems like you are maybe thinking the North Koreans can accurately launch , guide, land and detonate some maybe non-existent miniturized nuke on one of their often-failing missiles The DPNK has no experience guiding or landing anything anywhere with any accuracy. Again, hitting some place even as big as LA from where they launch is likely a crap shoot.

    We understand these limitations even about our own missiles. Hence, overwhelming counter-response capabilities and TRIAD.

  18. 18
    efgoldman says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    How exactly do you strangle somebody with a pack of wolves?

    Very, very carefully.

  19. 19
    AdamK says:

    Wolves can grab your neck with their jaws, thus sort of strangling you but also tearing your throat out.

  20. 20
    debit says:

    I dunno, I asked about him dropping a bomb in the other thread and was told to chill the fuck out.

  21. 21
    Yutsano says:

    So not a single system at my work is functioning and I’ve already been yelled at because I can’t help anyone today. Might as well end the world while we’re at it.

  22. 22
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Immanentize: I don’t think it’s especially likely. I do think it’s now much, much more likely that NK will *try* to launch something after Trump escalates to war (nuclear or conventional).

    Whether or not it hits is another question, but let’s just say this whole chain of events is much more concerning than it was… say, back when we thought Hillary would be President.

  23. 23
    chopper says:

    god, i miss obama so much right now.

  24. 24
    Baud says:


    It’s the end of the world as we know it
    and I feel fine

  25. 25
    sm*t cl*de says:

    It must be reassuring for the South Koreans, all this talk of cauldronising their peninsula.

  26. 26
    Jeffro says:

    It was not at all reassuring to see just how hard Orangemandias was hugging himself during his “statement”.

    Could somebody please give him a weighted vest, stat?

    ETA: I think Frankensteinbeck at #6 and I are sharing a brain cell or two at the moment

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    Via LGM

    Twice a day since the beginning of the Trump administration, a special folder is prepared for the president. The first document is prepared around 9:30 a.m. and the follow-up, around 4:30 p.m. Former Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and former Press Secretary Sean Spicer both wanted the privilege of delivering the 20-to-25-page packet to President Trump personally, White House sources say.

    These sensitive papers, described to VICE News by three current and former White House officials, don’t contain top-secret intelligence or updates on legislative initiatives. Instead, the folders are filled with screenshots of positive cable news chyrons (those lower-third headlines and crawls), admiring tweets, transcripts of fawning TV interviews, praise-filled news stories, and sometimes just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful.

  28. 28
    TriassicSands says:

    Here’s a sobering thought: One of these two idiots — Kim Jong Un and Donald J. Trump — was installed by a (more or less) free election.

  29. 29
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    That statement just proves how unhinged and unsuitable he is to the presidency. He needs to be impeached for the safety of us all.

  30. 30


    So not a single system at my work is functioning and I’ve already been yelled at because I can’t help anyone today. Might as well end the world while we’re at it.

    Ah, the wonderful world of programming.

  31. 31
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    *Screams internally*

  32. 32
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Baud: I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

  33. 33
    JCJ says:


    I suppose, But having first really thought of nuclear war when St Ronnie was having Pershing II’s deployed throughout Germany when he was first president and going to school in Hamburg this is not as stressful. Alexander Haig gave a speech in West Berlin stating, “There are more important things than peace.” I arrived in Hamburg in September, 1981 with all of this going on. The border with East Germany was only 40 or 50 miles away. True, Kim Jong Un and Trump are both idiots/lunatics/narcissists, but I don’t find it nearly as worrisome.

  34. 34
    Chyron HR says:


    Could somebody please give him a weighted vest, stat

    But that would just increase his battle power.

  35. 35
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: That is pathetic. I can’t decide what it says about me that not only am I not surprised they’re giving him a twice daily praise packet but I kind of figured something like that was going on.

  36. 36
    eclare says:

    @Jeffro: yeah, and Melania was sitting next to him?

  37. 37

    @MisterForkbeard: I hear ya, I hear ya.

    Although given how inaccurate the missiles would likely be, we might get lucky and the strike do something useful, like take out Bakersfield.

    (Only half-snarking….)

  38. 38
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    @JCJ: Despots all over the world learned one lesson from the US invasion and destruction of Iraq: arm yourself as much as possible, including with nukes, or you might be the next target of American Republicans. Bush 2, Wolfowitz, Pearl, Rumsfeld, Cheney and the rest of that willfully ignorant crew have a lot to answer for.

  39. 39
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @JCJ: There have undoubtedly been more tense and worried times, no doubt.

    The problem I’ve got with all of this is that Trump is much more likely to escalate than previous presidents. He doesn’t understand consequence, but he understands that someone threatened him. Likewise, he understands that angry, manly threats get him plaudits from his base and from the media – and he’s obsessed with his own image.

    At this moment, I’m much less worried than you would have been in ’81. I don’t trust that situation to last, though.

    @Sister Golden Bear: If only. :)

  40. 40

    well it was nice knowing you all Japan, the Korean Peninsula and possibly most of the west coast

  41. 41
    raven says:

    When Gen. Barry McCaffery thinks you’re nuts. . .

  42. 42
    Waldo says:

    Kim is a beacon of hope for Trump:

    World War III = Get out of jail free.

  43. 43
    raven says:

    The real bitch will be if this works.

  44. 44
    Baud says:

    Let me be the first to say that by threatening North Korea with nuclear war, Donald Trump became President of the United States today. #PunditTalk

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @raven: How would you tell, other than through the absence of war?

    By that reasoning, everything every past president has tried with NK has also worked.

  46. 46
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    O/T, sad news, Glen Campbell has died, age 81.

  47. 47
    Chris says:

    I’m glad it’s not just me. I was like… what the fuck? Do wolves have a particularly strong association with strangulation? Even in mythology?

  48. 48
    catclub says:

    From Bloomberg:

    North Korea is a little different because it already has nuclear capacity. The realistic scenario here would have to be that, in exchange for sanctions being lifted, North Korea would credibly agree to stop developing long-range missile capacity to deliver its missiles to the West Coast of the U.S. — and perhaps stop adding more warheads.

    I wonder how the South Koreans and Japanese feel about limiting the missile range to … them.

  49. 49
    JPL says:

    Are WH and KCNA sharing a speechwriter? This is exactly the kind of unenforceable red line that undermines US deterrence credibility.

  50. 50
    JCJ says:

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    Agree. You could include the author of that catchy phrase, “Axis of Evil,” David Frum. He might have just been a speech writer, but those words cast in stone what the next steps Iran and North Korea should choose.

  51. 51
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Chyron HR:
    I see what you did there

  52. 52
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Unless Trump is vaporized in a nuclear blast.

  53. 53
    Baud says:


    Kim Jong-Orange


  54. 54

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): The important thing is, we didn’t elect that warmonger Killary.

  55. 55
    Lizzy L says:

    I am much less nervous about what NK might decide/be able to do to the US (and I live in the SF Bay Area also) than I am about what Donald Trump might want/decide/be able to do to NK.

  56. 56
    Yarrow says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Aww…I’m sorry to hear that. I know he was suffering from Alzheimer’s. I didn’t see the documentary they made about it but heard it was great. I loved his classic songs.

  57. 57
    Chris says:


    It’s occurred to me before that Russian-American relations in the early eighties might be the closest historical analogy for Donald Trump v. Kim Jong Eun today: two nuclear-armed powers run by posturing reactionary assholes who were also going seriously senile. Imagine how much more scared you’d have been if you’d know about Reagan’s Alzheimer’s.

    (An imperfect analogy, as 1) both Brezhnev and Reagan still listened to their advisers more than Trump or, I suspect, Kim, 2) Brezhnev was going seriously senile by then, but we’re not sure exactly when it set in for Reagan, 3) Brezhnev and Reagan’s mental problems were the product of old age and genetics, as opposed to Trump and Kim who are simply overgrown brats who were never told “no,” and 4) on a happier note, North Korea vs. United States doesn’t carry nearly the threat of worldwide devastation that USSR vs United States did).

  58. 58
    raven says:

    @Baud: What reasoning are you referring to?

  59. 59
    raven says:

    @Yarrow: He was ok in True Grit too.

  60. 60
    Fair Economist says:

    If Kim Jong Un plans to unleash packs of wolves on the US they’ll need to be remarkably good at swimming, aside from the novel strangulation capabilities.

  61. 61
    Baud says:

    @raven: That it works because of the absence of war. How else would we know if it works?

  62. 62
  63. 63
    Turgidson says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    If Hair Furor manages to blunder us into a global conflagration through sheer impulsive dipshittery like that statement, we’ll still have GG and his imitators saying “well as bad as this might seem, corrupt neoliberal arglebargle Hillary would have been unimaginably worse and blah blah blah deep state derpity doo.” Fuckit, most of the Republican Party will keep telling us and themselves that, too, but for different reasons.

  64. 64
    raven says:

    @Baud: Adjust your snarkometer please. What if the fucking Korean moron backs down an denukes?

  65. 65
    Baud says:

    @Mike J:

    CLINTON: I — I find it ironic that he’s raising nuclear weapons. This is a person who has been very cavalier, even casual about the use of nuclear weapons. He’s…

    TRUMP: Wrong.

    CLINTON: … advocated more countries getting them, Japan, Korea, even Saudi Arabia. He said, well, if we have them, why don’t we use them, which I think is terrifying.

    But here’s the deal. The bottom line on nuclear weapons is that when the president gives the order, it must be followed. There’s about four minutes between the order being given and the people responsible for launching nuclear weapons to do so. And that’s why 10 people who have had that awesome responsibility have come out and, in an unprecedented way, said they would not trust Donald Trump with the nuclear codes or to have his finger on the nuclear button.

  66. 66
    Bex says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Barbara Cook has died, age 89.

  67. 67
    Turgidson says:

    Also, isn’t it obvious that Hair Furor’s big manly-man statement about fire and fury was based on the fact that he watched Game of Thrones on Sunday?

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @raven: If Trump causes that to happen, I’ll give him his props.

  69. 69
    JPL says:

    I didn’t realize that Trump was reading a statement, which is why he repeated the section about fire and fury.
    Is Bannon on the trip with him?

  70. 70

    @Baud: You know Trump is name checked in that song?

  71. 71
    debit says:

    @Turgidson: Man, if only he had a dragon.

  72. 72
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I didn’t see it either, although I heard most if not all of the audio on CNN in the car. Alzheimer’s is a true bitch of a disease.

    Between Glen Campbell and Barbara Cook, it’s been a sad day for music.

  73. 73

    @Major Major Major Major: On the plus side, Korean War II: Triple Genocide means Seattle doesn’t need to worry about The Big One sending it into the ocean.

  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:


    Oh, so sad.

  75. 75
    Bex says:

    @Chris: Trump’s father died of Alzheimer’s.

  76. 76
    Ithink says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    This assumes that the current composition of Congress (the Senate & House of Reps.), the Trump/Pence (failing rotating IKEA) cabinet, and every state legislature from the top/down are any more safer or more reasonable governing agents with or without Trp @ the head! They’re ALL Republican dominated, and until the Dens get it together and clean their clock up & down the tickets during midterms AND election years, we’re (meaning the 288 million Americans that DIDN’T vote for him & the world writ large) gonna be TOTALLY screwed/fearful/on edge until then😫…

  77. 77
    chris says:

    I don’t think the Madman Theory was ever meant to be used by both sides. Yet here we are.

  78. 78
    catclub says:


    That it works because of the absence of war. How else would we know if it works?

    Ask Lisa Simpson if she still has that rock that keeps tigers away.

  79. 79
    lamh36 says:

    Just got home and saw the news…smh

    Trump is an idiot, but still, it makes me mad that we all have to be subject to this maniac with his fingers on the nuclear codes, surrounded by “good patriotic people” just trying to keep Cheeto under control, and instead ain’t doing shit…the dude is still cray..

    To all them fuq’ers. who DIDN’T VOTE or WASTED your vote on 3rd party bullshit…or those HILARY IS SAME AS TRUMP idiots…oh and ALL STUPID AZZ, Mayo Nation, TRUMP VOTERS…Enjoy the next TRUMP WORLD WAR!!!

  80. 80
    mike in dc says:

    They should lie to Trump and tell him NK can hit Mar-a-lago and Trump Tower NY with nukes already.

  81. 81
    Quinerly says:

    Yep. Been off line and out of the loop since this AM. Walked in and turned on MSNBC….At least Nicole was trying to remain calm.

  82. 82
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Baud: Man, it’s almost as if someone saw this coming!

  83. 83
    NCSteve says:

    @MisterForkbeard: If it makes you feel any better, the arms control experts who follow this stuff closely are nearly certain that the ICBM’s they’ve already launched can already hit New York or DC, so they’ll almost certainly go there first if they’ve got the guidance capability.

  84. 84
    Another Scott says:

    What about that China-DPRK mutual defense treaty? SCMP from April:

    China and North Korea signed a mutual aid and cooperation treaty in 1961 as they sought to mount a united front against Western powers. It specifies that if one of the parties comes under armed attack, the other should render immediate assistance, including military support.

    But the treaty also says both nations should safeguard peace and security.

    For China, North Korea’s development of nuclear weapons in violation of the United Nations treaty on non-proliferation could amount to a breach of their pact, leaving Beijing with no obligation to lend a hand, observers said.

    China could also have a get-out clause if any US military intervention was not deemed an armed attack.

    “It’s hard to say how China would assist North Korea militarily in case of war, since North Korea is developing nuclear weapons, an act that might have already breached the treaty between the two nations,” said Li Jie, a retired Chinese naval colonel.

    Shanghai-based military analyst Ni Lexiong said China would need to provide military assistance to North Korea if US land forces invaded, but Pyongyang’s violation of the UN non-proliferation treaty was a “strong reason” for Beijing to choose not to help.

    How plausible is that analysis? I dunno.

    Do we really think that Donnie would just blow up a bunch of stuff and declare victory and go home? Like he did in Syria? How’d that work out? Does anyone think that Kim wouldn’t respond as best he could if the DPRK is attacked? That there wouldn’t be pressure for US/ROK/Japan/others to “go in and take care of the problem once and for all”? And that China would just sit back and accept that?


    We know there’s a whole bunch of people in Donnie’s White House that think that yelling “Lock Her UP!” is strategic thinking…


    These are dangerous times, but nothing is inevitable. We can’t get stampeded into doing something stupid just because Donnie paints himself into a corner… We can’t assume that China will just sit back and do nothing if warheads start flying.


  85. 85
    lamh36 says:

    Chuck Todd…gonna be the type to spread never challenge anything that comes from this WH. He’ll spread their war propaganda far & wide

  86. 86
    Chris says:


    I sit corrected.

  87. 87
    tybee says:

    godzilla – DTS

    Haruo Nakajima, who wore the Godzilla suit in 12 movies, died on Monday from pneumonia at the age of 88, it said.

    In an interview this year Nakajima explained how the original 1954 costume was created from ready-mixed concrete and weighed up to 100kg (220lbs).

    He said he studied animals in the Tokyo zoo to prepare for the role.

    Nakajima started off as a stunt actor in samurai and war films including “Seven Samurai” by Akira Kurosawa.

    He first played Godzilla – a giant beast who emerges from the deep after a nuclear test – in the 1954 film entitled Godzilla directed by Ishiro Honda and produced by the famed Japanese film studio Toho.

    He went on to play the character in consecutive sequels as well as playing other beasts Rodan, Mothra and King Kong.

    His last outing in the suit was in the 1972 Godzilla vs. Gigan

  88. 88
    bystander says:


    These sensitive papers, described to VICE News by three current and former White House officials, don’t contain….

    VICE News? Doesn’t that come on after Bong Appetit and before Weediquette?

  89. 89
  90. 90
    debit says:

    @lamh36: Chuck Todd will cream his pants on air and then smoke a cigarette after if Trump launches. Him and Tweety both. “Chuck, doesn’t it make you think of a man’s man, you know a guy who smells like Aqua Velva, maybe he just stepped out of the shower and launched the nukes, then had a drink with his generals in the war room? I bet they wear uniforms in the war room, and there’s maybe a smoky haze and the lights are low, because it’s somber, somber but sexy, you know?”

  91. 91
    Betty Cracker says:

    @JPL: He wasn’t reading the statement — the photo in the tweet is misleading. Just saw a clip of him making the statement, and man, is it WEIRD! His body language is bizarre — he’s hugging himself and sort of swaying. I wish I was joking — CNN has the clip if you want to see for yourself.

  92. 92
    Baud says:



  93. 93
    Yarrow says:

    I don’t know what we as regular citizens can do about this situation. Any suggestions? Doesn’t seem like a “call your Reps” kind of issue, but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I should call the Republicans who supposedly represent me and tell them to impeach the corrupt pumpkin.

  94. 94
    Yarrow says:

    @Betty Cracker: He needs a ThunderShirt, but for nuclear weapon anxiety.

  95. 95
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Prevailing winds here are west to east. Fallout can also kill lots of people.

  96. 96
    Mike J says:

    @Yarrow: Stretching exercises so we’re limber enough to kiss our asses goodbye.

    Meanwhile, The National Interest channels Buck Turgidson.

    Large numbers of civilian casualties and the loss of several American cities would be horrific, but not existential.

  97. 97
    catclub says:


    Yet here we are.


  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @Mike J: Only tax hikes are existential.

  99. 99
    tobie says:


    Alexander Haig gave a speech in West Berlin stating, “There are more important things than peace.”

    I remember that speech well. I was at the protest march in West Berlin and the outrage in the crowd at the danger the US was exposing Germany to was everywhere.

    On another note: Did anyone else notice Melania sitting next to Trump during the opioid crisis meeting? Is she now an advisor, too?

  100. 100
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mike J: Lopping that dude’s fingers off would be horrific, but not existential.

  101. 101
    hueyplong says:

    I guess we’re left to wonder whether Putin sees a downside to a nuclear holocaust.

  102. 102
    Yarrow says:


    Did anyone else notice Melania sitting next to Trump during the opioid crisis meeting? Is she now an advisor, too?

    Yep. It’s weird. She may be his handler when Javanka aren’t available. Are they with him on vacation?

  103. 103
    catclub says:

    @Mike J: “Now, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed.”

  104. 104
    catclub says:

    @Mike J: I suspect it would be one US city and then all of N. Korea

  105. 105
    Mike J says:

    @catclub: As somebody in Seattle, it could be pretty fucking existential if you’re in the one US city.

  106. 106
    tobie says:

    @Yarrow: Well, she’s no better than anyone else as a handler. I know they sent her into the meeting with Putin at the G20 to break it up after an hour but she couldn’t stop her husband doing whatever he was doing with his BFF.

    I think I heard Jared and Ivanka are in China so she may be taking their place.

  107. 107
  108. 108
    MomSense says:

    @Yarrow: I just faxed mine. This is insane.

  109. 109
    d58826 says:

    So listening to the talking heads and how the policy of the past three presidents has been an abject failure and that is why we are at this point. OK but I have a question – at point in the past 30 years should we have gone to war rather than continuing along a failing diplomatic path? They talked about putting the military option back on the table but of what value is that unless the US really plans on launching an attack.

  110. 110
    Another Scott says:

    @Betty Cracker: Downstairs I just posted a link to one of his “tough guy” pictures where he’s crossing his arms and frowning like that. I think it’s his “this is what a tough guy like Mussolini did, so I’ll do it too!” pose. But Melania looks pissed off at him, also too, so maybe there’s some additional family dynamics pushing him to be crankier than usual… :-/

    One thing is certain, Kim isn’t going to be swayed by Donnie’s tough talk.


  111. 111
    debbie says:


    I think Trump’s trying to out-Un Un with those words. They should be locked together in a room to duke it out and get it over with.

  112. 112
    bystander says:

    @Baud: I thought VICE News was connected to that bro magazine and the cable station, but I guess not. Bong Appetit is my favorite program. Jacques Pepin + pot!

    I just picked up on Barbara Cook’s death. She was my all time favorite. Broadway lights dim tonight.

  113. 113
    lamh36 says:

    Pope Francis allies accuse Trump White House of ‘apocalyptic geopolitics’


  114. 114
    Mike J says:


    OK but I have a question – at point in the past 30 years should we have gone to war rather than continuing along a failing diplomatic path?

    The diplomatic path was working under Clinton, then Bush remembered hearing a comedian talk about the rule of three and made his axis of evil speech.

  115. 115
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:


    Did anyone else notice Melania sitting next to Trump during the opioid crisis meeting? Is she now an advisor, too?

    Wait, that was a meeting and not a lunchtime photo op? WTF? I did notice that she was leaning as far away from him as she could without falling off her chair – but that’s normal. Her presence is as fucked up as that of his kids – in other words, just another Tuesday.

  116. 116
    eataTREE says:

    Everyone in the Bay Area is invited to sleep on my couch, post-apocalypse; I live on sixteen acres in the Sierra foothills. You will have to share with a variety of hippie kids who are already sleeping on my couch, but they are sweet and mostly harmless.

    Depending on how many of you show up, we may need to increase the size of the vegetable garden rather. In your panicked flight from the flaming ruins please try to grab a decent pair of gardening gloves because we never have enough. Thanks!

  117. 117
    Baud says:

    January 2017

    Two Democrats are pushing Congress to restrict President Trump’s ability to launch nuclear weapons, reintroducing a bicameral bill Tuesday that would prohibit the president from launching a nuclear first strike without a declaration of war by Congress.

    “Nuclear war poses the gravest risk to human survival,” Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) said in a statement. “Yet, President Trump has suggested that he would consider launching nuclear attacks against terrorists. Unfortunately, by maintaining the option of using nuclear weapons first in a conflict, U.S. policy provides him with that power.”

  118. 118
    JeanneT says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    re. strangulation by wolves…
    I’ve seen video of two adult male wolves attacking a senior male by grabbing him by the throat until he lost consciousness. The only reason the senior male wasn’t killed in that instance was because the staff at Wolf Park (a wolf study center in Indiana with a small captive wolf population) were able to pull him away from the younger males.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @Mike J: Yeah, but Bill gave us NAFTA and got a blow job, so we’re not allowed to positively acknowledge anything he did.

  120. 120
    lamh36 says:

    Pres Trump’s statement on North Korea, borrows a phrase from Pres Harry Truman on Aug 6 1945, on use of atomic bomb against Japan:

  121. 121
    debbie says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    What a joke that meeting was. Trump tore himself away from his vacation to hold a highly publicized meeting which basically was no more than, “We’re working on it”? Unbelievable.

  122. 122
    Baud says:




  123. 123
    Morzer says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Well, you tie the wolves together very tightly and…

  124. 124
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Mike J: Well, it was “working” during the Clinton administration – it’s evident that NK might have been reneging in some areas (might have) while we also arguably failed to live up to our side of the deal. However, it was a repairable relationship and vastly superior to the other options, which makes the Bush team’s destruction of that policy completely indefensible.

  125. 125
    tobie says:

    McCain has issued a statement taking exception to Trump’s rhetoric. Don’t issue threats you can’t fulfill. He concluded by saying one should talk softly but carry a big stick.

  126. 126
    Morzer says:


    Da doo Un Un/
    Da doo Un Un….

  127. 127
    Another Scott says:

    @lamh36: I knew that sounded familiar…



  128. 128
    debbie says:

    I don’t see a post on this. Am I the only one who was surprised?

    The New York Times published an unreleased draft of the report Monday. The 543-page report was written by scientists from 13 federal agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It concludes that temperatures in the U.S. have risen sharply, by 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit, over the last 150 years and that it is “extremely likely that most of the global mean temperature increase since 1951 was caused by human influence on climate.”

    The Resistance is strengthening.

  129. 129
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Betty Cracker: Who would have known it was a threat from the Trumpster.

  130. 130

    @debbie: It was raining, so there was nothing better to do.

  131. 131

    @tobie: Meanwhile Graham is (I assume) still prattling on about how war with NK is ‘inevitable’.

  132. 132
    Mike in NC says:

    Trump is going to have his Cuban Missile Crisis — maybe this week or maybe next year — and it won’t turn out well. He’s mentally unstable and requires full-time adult supervision.

  133. 133
    Gelfling 545 says:

    “Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time! ..” What a pair of “statesmen”. You’d better not threaten me or I will threaten you. Jesus. Neither of them should be allowed to use the pointy scissors.

  134. 134

    That might pass. They already gave Trump the middle finger on the Russian sanctions. I wouldn’t bet either way.

  135. 135
    debbie says:

    The pack of ravening wolves reminded me of a segment on BBC radio at about 3 am Monday morning. It included a tape of chimpanzees attacking and biting a non-familiar chimpanzee to death. It was absolutely horrifying to hear. Sometimes nature is horrible.

  136. 136
    p.a. says:

    It is a tale told by an idiot, full of [fire] and fury, signifying nothing.

  137. 137

    Secretary of Defense under Bill Clinton

  138. 138
    ruemara says:

    @eataTREE: I’m down. I’ll bring my violets, another compost bucket and my roommate’s basil plant. Possibly the roommate.

  139. 139
    debbie says:


    He tweeted this this morning:

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 11h11 hours ago
    I will be holding a major briefing on the Opioid crisis, a major problem for our country, today at 3:00 P.M. in Bedminster, N.J.


    The best response so far:

    Harmless‏ @InertAlien 1h1 hour ago
    Replying to @realDonaldTrump
    “We will win.” That’s your major briefing? What’s your strategy? How can you fight the opioid epidemic while defunding treatment? #Moron

  140. 140
    Mike in NC says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Going from Bill Perry to Rick Perry was quite a downhill slide.

  141. 141
    A Ghost to Most says:

    Kim Jong-Orange is definitely going into the rotation

    In other news (apologies if this has already been addressed:

    An 11-year-old girl from Texas fled the state for Colorado to get medical marijuana for her “crippling” seizures — and now she and her family are suing Attorney General Jeff Sessions to make sure no one else has to.

    According to Houston’s KHOU news station, the girl, Alexis Bortell, joined a lawsuit against the attorney general that seeks to reclassify marijuana away from a Schedule I drug and legalize it as medicine. According to KHOU, Bortell and her attorneys “argue that this is a civil rights issue.”


  142. 142
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Lizzy L: Yes, it’s not impossible that Trump would order a first strike against Northern California thinking it’s Korea. After all, this is the same man who thinks Oahu is in Africa.

  143. 143

    @debbie: Trump can’t golf in the rain.

  144. 144

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    After all, this is the same man who thinks Oahu is in Africa.

    It’s not? Does kinda sound African.

    ETA: Maybe a city in Kenya.

  145. 145
    Morzer says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    To be fair, his whole administration so far has been a Trumpster fire…

  146. 146
    Morzer says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Trump is still complaining that he liked Oahu Messenger before that wicked Marissa Meyer ruined everything.

  147. 147
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    You guys, I feel so much better knowing the sage advice of JarVanka is just down the hall from Donnie.

  148. 148

    North Korea responds:

  149. 149
    debbie says:


    Heavens, his makeup would run!

  150. 150
    debbie says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    He’s as cowardly as Trump, picking on little Guam.

  151. 151
    A Ghost to Most says:

    I spent 3.5 years living in that exact spot at SAC HQ. My plan was to go outside and try to catch the first one

    Eta: sorry about that

  152. 152
    Calouste says:

    @tobie: I don’t know if Melanie is an advisor, but she might be an expert on opioid use. Most normal people who would have to live with the shitgibbon would be.

  153. 153
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    Los Angeles and Long Beach are the two largest ports in the US. New York is a distant third.

    But, hey, destroying our country’s ability to import and export goods wouldn’t be a problem for our economy, right?

  154. 154
    p.a. says:

    Kelly & McMaster currently have to take turns staying in the US when Twitler is here to try to maintain some control. Next, I guess, is putting a cot in his bedroom. Is there an operation to Siamese Twin two people together? Loser gets him.

  155. 155
    JPL says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I assume that Japan, South Korea and China are paying attention, and I’m not sure what leader they fear the most. Trump and Kim are both narcissistic maniacs.

  156. 156
    ruckus says:

    Not volunteering but could a poll be taken to determine if these two males have the smallest measurable dicks on the planet?

  157. 157
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @A Ghost to Most: I’m mostly concerned about my property values going down. “Radioactive” isn’t usually on the list of desired features for a home. ^_^

  158. 158
    chopper says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    i thought that said “president acute situation” and i thought well, yeah.

  159. 159
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    Also, I read through the comments there and Kelly lives in South Korea, so I think his point was supposed to be that he’s in a fuckton more danger than anyone in the US is right now, but it didn’t come across that way, to put it gently.

  160. 160
    Morzer says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    When you’re wounded and lost on Trumpistan’s plains
    And Jared and Ivanka come to steal what remains
    Just roll to your microphone
    And lie out your brains
    And sell out your country like a Trumper.

  161. 161
    Bill Arnold says:

    Cheryl Rofer, care to comment on the reports (and on the timing of the report) on NK warhead miniaturization?
    The link from this link seems to get around the paywall.

    North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment.
    The analysis, completed last month by the Defense Intelligence Agency, comes on the heels of another intelligence assessment that sharply raises the official estimate for the total number of bombs in the communist country’s atomic arsenal. …

    (Guidance and re-entry are still technical challenges for them to solve, correct?)

  162. 162
    Morzer says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Well, I guess we now know that Kim Jong Un will not willingly cede the title of most blusteringly stupid head of state.

  163. 163
    JPL says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: That threat seems to cross the red line that Trump spoke about earlier.

  164. 164
    MomSense says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The weird way he kept holding his eyes closed as he talked was bizarre. He’s not well.

  165. 165
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    So the word is Trump is now trying to kiss Muller’s ass since bullying won’t work. Good god, and North Korea now and we have this coward leading us. I am a hard core unbeliver but now I am tempted to take up prayer on a Pascel’s wager kind of moment

  166. 166
    JPL says:

    @MomSense: I think it means we’re f.ked.

  167. 167
    A Ghost to Most says:

    True. I was living in the crosshairs of n nukes, where n>1. Since I worked in the basement just OUTSIDE the blast doors, we had no illusions of survival

    Had a helluva good time, though.

  168. 168

    @Bill Arnold: I’ve commented some on this thread. tl;dr: I agree with Sig Hecker’s comments in the WaPo article and would like to know more about the report(s) that are being quoted.

    @JPL: It can be taken that way. After some thought, it looks to me like the message is “We won’t bomb Guam if you’ll stop overflights.” I got a like on Twitter from a North Korea expert, so I think that’s reasonable. The Great Negotiator set it up for North Korea to get one more negotiating point.

  169. 169
    Calouste says:

    @Bill Arnold: Guidance and re-entry only need to be solved if your goal is to blow up a specific target. If your minimum requirement is to cause nuclear contamination somewhere with a 1000 mile radius, you’re there already.

  170. 170
    different-church-lady says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Tie their tails together first. Jeez, it’s like you people don’t know how to do anything

  171. 171
  172. 172
    Mart says:

    Right wing radio jock while channel flipping in mid TN, I say we pop a cap in his ass. He can’t cross the border. We’ll mow them down. Trump has our backs on this. What say you, phone lines are open.

  173. 173
  174. 174
    Mnemosyne says:


    I remember the good old days when people whined and complained that Obama had drawn a “red line” with Syria that he would never be able to back down from, and then some fine behind-the-scenes diplomating got announced and non-idiots realized that’s what had been going on the whole time.

    The odds that something similar is happening here are … slim, shall we say.

  175. 175

    @Mnemosyne: The people who complained about Obama’s “red line” are conspicuously silent now.

  176. 176
    burnspbesq says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    take out Bakersfield.

    Fresno first. Those assholes repearedly elected Devin Nunes.

  177. 177
    Jeffro says:

    @raven: @Baud: I’d say the likelihood of North Korea disarming itself of any nukes whatsoever is drifting into negative % at this point. It’s working for them: they haven’t been invaded like Iraq, they haven’t been forced into a restrictive agreement like Iran. They’ll tell China to pound sand too…but China might be able to tell them they only get to keep a couple if they want to continue receiving aid.

  178. 178
    Gravenstone says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I think we should encourage him to. Especially if we can get Bill Murray to caddy.

  179. 179
    TenguPhule says:


    but China might be able to tell them they only get to keep a couple if they want to continue receiving aid.

    That option went out the window once NK successfully tested their first nuclear bomb.

  180. 180
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I’ve commented some on this thread. tl;dr: I agree with Sig Hecker’s comments in the WaPo article and would like to know more about the report(s) that are being quoted.

    Sorry about that, missed that thread. Read, and thanks.

  181. 181
    Bill Arnold says:


    Am I the only one who was surprised?

    Climate scientists seem in aggregate to be getting a bit feistier about political involvement. Very pleased to see this. The literature is largely without emotional content (e.g. couched (correctly) in probabilities), and so (IMO) we need more frightening scenario-style material like the nymag piece:
    But for example, from Deadly heat waves projected in the densely populated agricultural regions of South Asia (August 2 2017),

    In poorer regions, such as South Asia, air conditioning is not currently available as a safe haven to most of the population, increasing the risk of illness and death related to extreme heat conditions. This disparity raises important environmental justice questions beyond the scope of this study.

    (And more, calling out India and China by name…)(bold mine)

  182. 182
    sylvania says:

    @MisterForkbeard: Are you building a bunker in your back yard now? Do you always turn to jello so easily?

    I would be a lot more worried if I was living in S Korea and you don’t see them panicking do you? N. Korea has missles that can hit S. Korea. Maybe Japan on a good day.

  183. 183
    rachel says:

    @Betty Cracker: It is wierd. I’d sure be interested in reading a body language expert’s reading of it.

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