I’m watching C-SPAN right now as they show a procedural vote being held open for over an hour and fairly happy Democrats.
I don’t know what the hell is happening besides Mitch McConnell currently does not have the votes.
Also Health Policy Twitter gets pretty weird after midnight….
There is still hope
— Update 1:30 Senators Collins, McCain and Murkowski are NO on Skinny Repeal
McCain votes no. It's cooked.
— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) July 28, 2017
I didn't see this coming. Not sure McConnell did either. pic.twitter.com/DTcveCrytw
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) July 28, 2017
Know hope … I am pouring myself a finger of 18 year old Scotch now.
Update 2
I haven't processed living in a world where fulsome praise for a self-righteous John McCain speech is eminently justified
— Scott Lemieux (@LemieuxLGM) July 28, 2017
Trentrunner
McConnell doesn’t have the votes. Pence et al trying to get them. Working McCain, Murkowski.
shinobi42
I hate it when the Senate goes into overtime.
But I really hope it means the American People win.
InternetDragons
Pence and Hatch have been working on McCain off and on for about thirty minutes. McCain is doing things like hugging Dianne Feinstein.
People outside shouting, “Kill the bill!” so loudly you can hear it inside and on camera.
This is pretty incredible to watch.
I think Repubs will do a roll call and hold the vote open all night, trying to get someone to flip.
Sandia Blanca
“watching” it on twitter–some good comic relief from nervous wonks
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
McCain, for once in your life, do the right thing and vote NO.
Yarrow
CNN reported that Pence was working McCain and McCain just turned and walked away.
Thoroughly Pizzled
McCain, if you vote nay, my coronary during the wait was not worth it.
Big R
You can’t just say things like “Health Policy Twitter gets weird after midnight.” Post that shit!
Yarrow
Baud
No motion to commit. Voting now.
Yarrow
Crap. They’re voting. Do they have the votes?
Mike J
Yoda Dog
C’mon McCain!!!! Prove us all wrong!
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
At least it will be over in a few minutes. Please hold, Republican objectors!
Baud
@Yarrow: We’ll find out when the get to the M’s.
Yarrow
What the hell is happening? Ugh. So tense.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow: Is C-SPAN showing the floor? It has to be.
Frankensteinbeck
I’m terrified one of the other two flipped.
Betty Cracker
What happened?
InternetDragons
Murkowski is a NO
McCain is a NO!!
Mike J
Mike Memoli Verified account @mikememoli 6 seconds ago
McCain votes no. Dems applaud
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I’m watching CNN. They’re just showing the vote on the floor. Not talking over it. But I can’t hear some of the voting.
Frankensteinbeck
Who is the expected third no?
Yarrow
Did Collins vote? She should have gone early by alphabetical order.
shinobi42
This is the worst listening to people’s names being called ever.
Barbara
I am still awake and waiting. I am trying to feel numb so I maintain composure. I hope someone unexpectedly does the right thing. God damn it.
SiubhanDuinne
I don’t have a tv. Is there a link I can follow on my iPad?
Mike J
@SiubhanDuinne: https://www.c-span.org/networks/?channel=c-span-2
Major Major Major Major
I’ve said here that it’s possible the one thing that will save the republic is John McCain’s ego, which is a formidable force.
Not likely, but he’s got nothing left to lose now, and Trump insulted him.
Boussinesque
@Mike J: Holy shit, he’s doing the right thing for once in his miserable life? I feel so conflicted. Conflicted, but happy.
CaseyL
I’m afraid to go to bed, and I’m afraid to follow the vote. I should do some serious drinking; might be the only way I fall asleep tonight.
MobiusKlein
If McCain votes no and kills the bill, I will say no more bad things about him until he and I no longer share the same plane of existence.
Bill Arnold
I almost never watch cspan – tonight is an exception. Crazy.
Good to see Pence in action. :-)
Yarrow
@Frankensteinbeck: Collins voted no.
Mike J
@MobiusKlein: He just did.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR…….. WAIT FOR IT ….. McCAIN!
(this time for realz)
Yutsano
Three no’s. Grandpa Walnuts actually did a good.
Frankensteinbeck
@Yarrow:
That’s three nos. It’s decided?
Baud
It’s over. 3 GOP flipped.
TS
@SiubhanDuinne: https://www.c-span.org/video/?431873-1/voting-now-underway-us-senate-skinny-repeal-health-care-repeal-bill&live=
MomSense
Holy shit!!!’
Betty Cracker
Holy shit.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@MobiusKlein:
He apparently voted no, along with Murkowski. Not sure about Collins
joel hanes
This is good news
FOR JOHN MCCAIN
MobiusKlein
@Mike J: caveat _and_ kills the bill. I will wait for the final tally.
Yoda Dog
BOO-YAH!
Mike J
Holy shit (just to continue the theme)
Boussinesque
Ordinarily I’d say I don’t want to see Pence, ever, outside of a state funeral (his own), perhaps–is he making a fool of himself, or doing something else that mitigates having his bigot ass cross your field of vision?
different-church-lady
Sacred crap!
Mike J
@joel hanes:
and America.
Baud
And you all hated Obama’s gracious tweet to McCain.
Tim C.
@MobiusKlein: We also need to fix that venn diagram so there’s a little bit of overlap.
Yarrow
It’s not over! Vote hasn’t been closed out yet. Someone could change their vote.
From Both Sides of the Pond
Oh, I cannot _wait_ to see the Twitter feed this morning…
mai naem mobile
It fucking failed
It mother fucking failed.
Yoda Dog
oh shit, Trumpov is going to be so pissed… I love it.
NobodySpecial
Why does anyone think this is over? That’s why they’re holding the vote open.
Mike J
Does McConnell need to flip to a no so he can reintroduce, or was that just on the MTP?
Maeve
Murkowski getting a lot of praise in local newspapers fo standing tough and even the comments are more for her than against. Our gov is a former repub that ran as independent and the lieut gov is a democrat. House is now controlled by coalition of dems, independents an two moderate republicans that broke with the too far right republican caucus. Senate is still republican caucus. Anyway she has a model of actual bipartsinship. We’ll see.
CaseyL
@Yarrow: McConnell and the whips are gonna twist arms until they fall off.
divF
@MobiusKlein: Can Turtle vote no and give himself the opportunity to recommit ?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Fucking moron Shelly Moore-Capito voted yes. But McCain VOTED NO.
I take back exactly one of the umpteen horrible things I’ve said about him. He could bend time itself to do the right thing 25 hours a day from now until his imminent death and he still wouldn’t redeem himself.
I don’t understand what they’re doing right now – calling out certain names and confirming their “ayes.” This movie sucks.
Chet Murthy
@MobiusKlein: I would say something different, but related.
(1) we’re poor and powerless. If we must fete him, we shall do so. Yes?
(2) but if he proceeds to betray the Republic, we need to come down on him like a ton of bricks.
Reward good behaviour. Reward patriotism (and they’re two different things). But punish (with cogent explanations) treason.
P.S. yeah, like #2 will have any effect. I remember when I had faith in my country.
eclare
@Major Major Major Major: That is what I wondered…don’t say I’m not a hero for being captured. He holds grudges.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I guess someone shouldn’t have said “I like people who weren’t captured”.
LurkerNoLonger
Wow! What a roller coaster this week has been. John McCain, I applaud you. I’ll gladly vacate you’re lawn now.
Yarrow
CLOSE OUT THE VOTE, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS! CLOSE IT! BANG THAT GAVEL!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
He voted no because he cared about how history would view him. Works for me. At this point, he didn’t owe McConnell or anybody else jackshit
TenguPhule
@NobodySpecial:
A Fucking Delay Play?
Fuck that McConnell.
m0nty
Not that I am pointing this out for anything negative towards the front pagers, because they were doing it for excellent and valid reasons, but there has been a lot of negativity from the left towards McCain and Collins lately. They have deserved it before today and no doubt will deserve it after today, but for today, they don’t deserve it.
Baud
@eclare:
@LurkerNoLonger:
Heh.
MobiusKlein
@Tim C.: True. McCain and I could die at the same time, and go to the same afterlife. Deal still holds.
Mike J
Amendment fails
The ayes are 49 the nays are 51
Fair Economist
OMG, I have to say good things about McCain now? That’s going to produce some mental conflict.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
The Turtle is disappointed. Angels dance.
Baud
Done.
Barbara
Still not final. Going a little nuts.
Betty Cracker
Senatortoise: “This is a disappointing moment.”
Librarian
Heller votes yes. Fuck him. I guess he wants to lose his seat.
Mike J
McConnell is live subtweeting McCain
Yarrow
HOLY SHIT! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU, JOHN McCAIN!!!!!
And I can breathe, just a little bit. I am so exhausted.
TenguPhule
@mai naem mobile:
Unfortunately its not over yet.
As long as they keep it open they can still change votes.
So we get to wait. And hope.
TS
McCain sure wants that legacy – as he’s not going to be around, maybe he saved someone else from twitter wrath
And now the turtle’s disappointing moment
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Turtle is a legislative genius.
Holding a vote without the votes — straight outta Boehner.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mike J: The gavel was banged? I can’t watch TV ratm
philpm
McConnell is about to cry right now. Watching live.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ. The fucking Turtle is fucking crying. Angels do the can-can.
Turgidson
Lying about the ACA to the bitter end.
Fuck you, Turtle man. A new wing of hell is being built especially for you, you lying, amoral blood gargling sociopath.
Mike J
@Librarian: McCain just screwed Heller.
bluehill
Maverick’s re-engaging!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Yes! We! Can!
psycholinguist
oh wow, turtle is chocking back tears in his speach. sweet, sweet, sweet tears
Frankensteinbeck
@TenguPhule:
When does that stop? I have no idea how long they can do that.
MobiusKlein
@Chet Murthy: I only promised to not say bad things. Neutral or silence is an option .
MomSense
Watching those protesters outside and tearing up. Wow!
Barbara
Okay — NYT updated. Thanks to every senator who voted no. McCain finally got the courage of his convictions and I am grateful.
philpm
Finally gaveled 49 Ayes, 51 Nays.
mai naem mobile
Okay,I am actually going to have to call McCains office and thank him tomorrow. And to think I thought Flake would be the more gettable ‘no’ vote.
lurker dean
Holy crap, that asshole finally did some good!
MomSense
@psycholinguist:
I love turtle tears and just wish they weren’t so rare.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Take a bow everyone who called, emailed, protested, tweeted, facebooked.
You. Won.
eclare
@eclare: But hey, I’ll take a gracious and principled vote no matter why. Wow. Stunned. Yertle embarrassing himself speaking.
Barbara
@Mike J: No, Heller screwed himself. There are some things worth more than another term in office.
philpm
And McConnell takes one last opportunity to blame the Dems for what he wreaked.
Bill Arnold
@Boussinesque:
I was being obtuse. Note the bits about Pence above, e.g. Yarrow at #6
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck: Okay, fat lady finally sung on this one. Celebrate. For tomorrow we have to deal with the next vote.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Oh my G-d, what a gigantic wrinkly goddamned lying crybaby. I hope his chin recedes right into his wobbly neck and chokes him.
different-church-lady
Not to piss in the Cheerios, but does anyone know what they’re going to try next?
jl
How long can they hold the vote open and twist arms. McConnell’s goons gonna be rousting people and twisting arms tomorrow morning? WTF?
Good for Collins McCain and Murkowski for voting no.
Why did McCain put himself and the country through all this? The other two miserable bills would have failed with or without him. And everyone pretty much know the skinny mini thingy was the next best chance.
Whatever. A cheer of McCain.; I try to be optimistic, so hope he gives us more to cheer about and more reasons to take back a few of the mean things we’ve said about him. But, beyond the issue of general sucktitud, I wonder why? Would have been easier to pull the plug on the vote to proceed.
On the other hand, McCain’s vindictiveness may be helping us. Maybe he wanted to put McConnell through hell and see him squirm through a drawn out failure. If so, I guess that’s cool. Hope the whole thing goes down the drain.
Fair Economist
McCain has had a checkered record for a while, but one thing we’ve learned though the repeal efforts is that Obamacare was a huge win for the country. If McCain saved it, it’s more consequential than all the things he’s done wrong, and he’s a real hero.
Edit: similar kudos to Collins and Murkowski. I was kind of taking them fro granted since they’ve been against the whole week, and that’s not fair to them.
Mendo
So all it takes to do the right thing is to get brain cancer?
Is it wrong to hope 49 GOP senators get brain cancer?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@mai naem mobile: Seconded. I think I will too. It’s hard to see McCain as a troll for voting for a MTP, only to kill the bill at the 11th hour, but a magnificent troll he is
Chet Murthy
@m0nty: *cough* without the negativity, what reason would McMaverick have had, to vote “no”? And if, next week, he votes to allow Putinfluffer to continue raping our Republic, what exactly should be our response?
He did a good deed -today-. For this he should be, and shall be, thanked, and FETED. FETED. But if, tomorrow, he betrays the Republic, then it ends there. Saving a grandma walking across a busy intersection DOES NOT excuse handing the crown jewels to Hitler.
net: Sure, if he acts like a patriot, we will ALL FETE HIM NON-STOP. As Saint Ronnie used to say: “Trust but Verify”.
ETA: Wanna echo Baud up-thread about something: Our Dem Tribunes, and their comity: as long as they VOTE against this shit, I don’t care how much they BUTTER UP Rs. I care about their VOTES. Sen. Booker, go ahead and hug McMaverick. But VOTE for US. [and we’ll remember that you VOTED against that reimportation bill, you weakling.] It was GOOD POLITICS to butter-up McMaverick. But Schumer gets credit for holding his caucus. That, again, is good politics.
NotMax
Caesar Rodney 2.0.
TenguPhule
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Now get a good night’s sleep and get ready to do it all over again.
Yeah, they have another fucking bill waiting after this one.
Turgidson
I’d love to drink the tears of McConnell’s sadness. Except he’s inhuman and incapable of sadness. And I can’t stand to listen to any more goddamn lies about a bill that has brought health and economic security to millions of people, which this insufferable piece of shit just tried to take away.
I can’t even look at McConnell anymore. Can’t even look at his face without going batty with rage. He’s a goddamn soulless monster.
philpm
McConnell crying for the end of his Senate career. I see him retiring before the year is out.
CaseyL
Thank you, Democrats and Collins, Murkowski and McCain. Thank you!
TenguPhule
@Mendo:
Only if you express it here.
Boussinesque
@Bill Arnold: Glad to know none of the other Republicans likes Pence much more than we do.
So kinda like this? “Sure, bring your idiot cousin in to try to convince us to do something, I’m sure THAT won’t backfire at all”
jl
@philpm:
” Finally gaveled 49 Ayes, 51 Nays. ”
It’s over? It’s really over? For really reals?
Big Donnie’s gonna be pissssssed tomorrow.
Mooch will snort himself into a heart attack getting ready to be property animated for the presser tomorrow, or his public freak out or whatever it is he does for his new job.
randal sexton
Happily, it seems I was wrong about John McCain this time. Heh heh. I was wrong –
mai naem mobile
Fuck Turtle. Disingenuous POS.
philpm
@jl: It’s over and McConnell broke out the tears.
CaseyL
Can we get a gif of McConnell crying? I didn’t watch so I didn’t see it.
Geoduck
@philpm: Not a chance. McConnell will leave the Senate feet-first.
jl
@TenguPhule:
A fucking bill?
Maybe McConnell has some innovative ideas on behavioral therapy? I’ll see what it is tomorrow, Won’t get my hopes up.
Barbara
@Fair Economist: This is not directed at McCain, but it is a general sentiment that none of us should celebrate a standard where we only feel the need to be brave and principled when we have nothing to lose.
TenguPhule
@different-church-lady:
Another amendment to the ACA is the next plan. Its supposed to need 60 votes though. Provided McConnell follows the Senate Rules.
Chet Murthy
@MobiusKlein: Buddy, ain’t nuthin’ wrong with that. We all do what we can. Some commenters here have the intestinal fortitude to attempt to convert Trump voters; I sure don’t. Wish I did, but I don’t. It’s all good.
philpm
@Geoduck: I disagree, he has no power now. He couldn’t get his own party together on what has been their biggest priority for the last 8 years, at a time when he had unlimited opportunity to do so. But his ego was so big, and his hubris so great, that he convinced himself that he could ram this down the throats of his own caucus on his say so. He just got his ass handed to him, and he honestly looked broken when speaking after the vote.
m0nty
@Chet Murthy:
Yes Chet, we are in violent agreement. When it comes to McCain et al, the operative instruction must be Mistrust And Verify.
I was pointing out that the recent narrative on here and like-minded blogs about McCain being a heartless bastard, Collins being made of blancmange, Murkowski open to being bought off and Republican moderates always caving will have to be backtracked a little, even if only for this moment.
Then tomorrow the knives come out again. ;)
jl
McCain must have known the vote count was hopeless or nearly so. Why did he vote to proceed and put himself and everyone through this when he must have known the outcome with, like 99 percent certainty? As I typed above, weird and hard to understand. Why not stay in Arizona and tweet out pics of him lazing around in cool clear watery pools and streams? Sucking on the refreshing iced beverage of his choice?
SiubhanDuinne
@TS:
Thanks. Wow, I picked a great time to wake up out of a sound sleep! Will phone McCain’s office tomorrow (well, today) to say thanks!
Captain C
@joel hanes: Hey, in his (probable) last major act of public life he was able to both be the one to stop a really horrid and damaging bill from becoming law (does anyone really think the House wouldn’t just take it and pass it?) and stick it to Trump, whom he likely can’t stand (that’s what happens when a draft dodger insults someone who actually became a casualty for his country), and probably also McConnell and Ryan.
I wouldn’t be totally surprised if this is how he gamed it out when he voted yes on the Motion to Proceed, let the actual Skinny Repeal come to a vote, and he could be the one to zap it. Our last image of him.
Chet Murthy
@CaseyL: Tomorrow, I’m going to call all three. And be effusive in my praise. No, they’re not my senators. No, I’d never vote for ’em. But that won’t stop me. B/c maybe, maybe, maybe it might make a difference. Who knows.
We’re little people. We need to encourage them to do the right thing. It doesn’t cost much. I’ll think of it as a little homework problem in “Salesmanship 101”.
Keith P.
Plan G is to rename tort reform and getting rid of the estate tax as “A Better Health Care Plan for Tomorrow” (ABHCPT) and try to get that to pass.
Chet Murthy
@Barbara: “celebrating something”, is different from “disingenuously thanking senators for not killing our fellow citizens”. I feel completely capable of doing the former, and I think we all should learn how to do it. B/c the safety of our republic might depend on it, sadly. Which doesn’t mean that, when the safety of our Republic is secured, we shouldn’t turn around and run ’em all out on a FSM-damned rail.
JoeSo
I feel like a Federation officer walking aboard Deep Space Nine after its liberation from the Dominion. McConnell has gone full Dukat I’m told.
Bill Arnold
@Mendo:
Yes. That would be way too improbable. (Among other reasons, the American right is way too twitchy about conspiracy theories these days.)
Anyway, more momentum-breaking/spine-stiffening/mind-changing/maybe-party-changing are what we should be driving for. IMO.
jl
@Captain C: That’s my guess. He really hates Trump, and Ryan and McConnell’s butt kissing up to the Trumpsters has really pissed him off, so he wanted to kill their number one priority dead dead dead in public, and humiliate them while doing it. The bitterness against Obama may seem like small ‘taters now. WTF was that shit all about, anyway, huh? life can be so funny, right?
And I think Obama has been nice to him lately. Sent him a nice note.
Geoduck
@philpm: I suppose it’s possible McConnell might get forced out as leader after this, though I stand by my statement about him ever leaving willingly.
Chet Murthy
@jl: Oh, I think it’s clear. He’s always been “the man of the hour” (in his own fevered mind). How exciting could that be, if it didn’t come down to an eleventh-hour vote? This drama … shit, he’s in SEVENTH HEAVEN over this. Imagine (ok, ok, I’m not WISHING FOR THIS, I swear) that he voted, and -then- dropped dead, or collapsed and had to be sent to hospital! Can you just imagine the national adulation? I’m sure he was dreaming of it as he voted.
Oh, and lemme note that this is all on the assumption that he was always gonna vote “no”. Now let’s imagine that he was “yes’ until tonight. Man, that’s a chilling thought, innit? That until tonight, he was ready to kill his fellow citizens in cold blood, after what he went thru the last few weeks.
So sure, I prefer to believe that he was just in it for “the show” (as he so memorably put it). He’s the star in his own Broadway show, is all. And we’re all extras. B/c the alternative is that, like Putinfluffer and Peter Thiel, he’s a vampire, feasting on the blood of innocents. So YES, let us celebrate John McMaverick, DRAMA QUEEN!
Barbara
@Chet Murthy: I just meant that people like Heller should have stood up even if it does place his seat at risk.
Captain C
@jl:
I don’t know if he’s smart or daring enough to game this out and execute it, but perhaps he voted yes on the Motion to Proceed so that he could be the one to nix it by voting no on the actual Skinny Repeal vote. He therefore ends his career stopping an atrocious bill AND sticks it to Donald “I don’t like soldiers who get captured” Trump (and maybe Mitch and Paul as well).
He’d have to have had solid reason to believe that Collins and Murkowski would be voting no already if so.
CaseyL
I’d wonder how all those GOPers who sold their souls for a vote that failed feels, but that assumes they have souls in the first place. I do hope that each and every one who voted in favor of repeal is covered in cold sweat and feeling sick.
Chet Murthy
@Chet Murthy: ARRGH. I meant “doing the latter”. Not “celebrate” — “disingenuously thank”. The LATTER, not the FORMER!
Captain C
@Captain C: Ah, I see you replied to the earlier post where I made this point.
Chet Murthy
@Barbara: We agree 100%. McMaverick gets celebrated for sacrificing NOTHING. Heller gets excoriated (we hope) for being a dickweed. All part of the disgusting game. Someone on twitter noted that it’s exhausting having to constantly harry our tribunes to do their job. And IT IS. But we gotta do it. I hate it. But we gotta do it. I HATE IT.
Captain C
@jl: Sometimes it really pays off to be nice to people.
Betty Cracker
Aside from McConnell appearing to choke up a little in his maudlin, hypocritical speech, my favorite scene was Pence trudging disconsolately to his motorcade. The beady-eyed bastard was so hoping to cast that tie-breaker. Go home, loser.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
Another thing, If McCain had to chose a moment to cut the power of McConnell, who has run the entire republican senate as a top down totalitarian group since he took power, he really couldn’t have chosen a better moment.
I’ll still take it.
Bill Arnold
@Boussinesque:
Precisely. Anyway, let’s go to sleep hoping that some significant amount of political momentum has been shed.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Betty Cracker:
Truly, a loser. The number of tie-breaking the VP has had to do this year is not normal.
eclare
@jl: Because the miserable POS in the White House called him a loser and not a hero for being captured in Vietnam. And McCain never lets go of a good grudge.
Ruckus
@jl:
Maybe he wanted to put as much of an end to it as possible. To rub the turtles (and maybe drumpf’s) face in it. He probably wouldn’t do as I think is appropriate and stand at the podium and flip off turtle, but maybe this is the political way of doing just that.
If I’m not mistaken, and it’s a distinct probability that I am, I think there is a time out limit to reintroduce nominally the same bill and that it will take 60 votes to change that. He hasn’t got that.
Also now that turtles been beaten soundly about the head with this dead bill maybe more chickenshit republicans might just break ranks. McCain may have actually led the way. I’m going to not hold my breath waiting for this to happen though.
Victor Matheson
Not at all what I expected to wake up to this morning.
Big Jim Slade
At a glance I read that as “I am pouring myself 18 fingers of Scotch now” lol. Maybe that would’ve been in the post if their attempts at vandalism (trademark Pierce) succeeded.