Russiagate Open Thread: The Minions Are Restless

And who could blame them? Not every member of the Trump administration looks forward to spending the rest of their days in some country with no extradition agreement:

The uneasy dynamic between the president and top aides has been exacerbated by the revelation this week of an extended dinner conversation between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin at the recent summit in Germany. The previously undisclosed conversation, which occurred a few hours after their official bilateral meeting, raised red flags with advisers already concerned by the president’s tendency to shun protocol and press ahead with outreach toward Russia, according to two U.S. officials and three top foreign officials…

The three foreign officials who have spoken with top Trump advisers described a disconnect, or “mixed signals,” between Trump and his team over Russia, highlighting a lack of a clear policy. U.S. officials echoed that sentiment, with one saying diplomats and intelligence officials were “dumbfounded” by the president’s approach, particularly given the evidence of Russia’s election meddling…

In a highly unusual move, McMaster did not attend the bilateral meeting with Putin. Only Trump, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and a translator made up the U.S. side.

Meetings with such critical national security implications typically include a broader team, including the national security adviser and a regional specialist from the National Security Council — in this case, the head of the Russia directorate, a position recently filled by Russia expert Fiona Hill.

Foreign and U.S. officials said the Russians recommended that a note taker be present in the bare-bones official bilateral meeting. But Trump, who has repeatedly expressed concern over leaks, refused, instead relying on Tillerson to document the meeting. The session was scheduled for 30 minutes but stretched to more than two hours.

The White House did not respond to questions about Trump’s refusal to have a note taker for his meeting with Putin, or about whether McMaster communicated his concerns to the president…

White House officials said the public may never know what was discussed between Putin and Trump over dinner. But advisers past and present said that characterizing any conversation with Putin as casual would be a mistake.

“There are no meaningless conversations between presidents,” said Jeffrey Edmonds, the NSC’s former Russia director.

“That’s what is so divergent here,” he said. “Relations have been at an all-time low because of Russian meddling in our elections and so it’s hard to see how a meeting with President Putin for an hour during dinner isn’t important.”

Hard to imagine a non-hinky explanation for Trump’s behavior, even for those of us with excellent imaginations.






199 replies
  1. 1
    debbie says:

    That second tweet, if true, shows how shady Trump’s intentions are. I cannot believe how disloyal this man is to our country.

  2. 2
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    Hard to imagine a non-hinky explanation for Trump’s behavior, even for those of us with excellent imaginations.

    Even if there were, who could trust Trump to tell us? The way this meeting with Putin was conducted was in such an inappropriate manner. When you’re talking with the head of a foreign state that has been waging cyber attacks against us, you better be as transparent as nat. sec will allow

  3. 3

    There is no innocent way to read what this guy is doing. None. If it had been one guy with all these weird ties to Russia, only one guy who had meetings and then “forgot” to own up to them, then maybe I might buy that there isn’t anything awful behind all this. But it’s, well, all of them. It would be easier to tot up all the people around this clown who don’t have any of those ties and haven’t lied about meetings with them than it would be to find people who have. They’ve all done this shit. And then there’s all the business dealing he’s done with sleazy Russian criminals. Then there’s… And it goes on and on. I know a few people who still, even today, think this is all a fake story. There’s nothing to see here. I don’t know how far up their own asses they have to shove their heads not to see this. This is all going to come out. The only thing we don’t know yet is how long it’ll take and how awful it’ll all end up being. And however awful we think it’ll be, it’ll be worse when it all comes out into the light.

  4. 4

    As KO says, “Resist, Remove, Peace”.

  5. 5
    MomSense says:

    What more will it take before people acknowledge that Trump is palying for team Russia?

  6. 6

    Jeet vs Chapo: In which the dirtbag left breathlessly confirms every negative stereotype of it within 24 hours.

  7. 7
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Care to enlighten me?

  8. 8
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MomSense:

    A lot of people are now admitting it, including his supporters. The scary part is that they don’t care. They were comparing Putin to Lafayette and Obama to Benedict Arnold. Seriously.

  9. 9
  10. 10
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I thought the French were cheese eating surrender monkeys? Do I need to update my wingnut encyclopedia?

  11. 11
    Laura says:

    The only explanation for Trump’s behavior is that he’s fucked in the head, incompetent, a greasy weasel and a traitor to this nation and it’s allies.

  12. 12
    Kay says:

    I know he’s a conservative but this is literally better than any Democratic consultant out there:

    Democrats should set an agenda around work with four key goals: reduce inequality by making sure workers are taking more money home in their paychecks; honor the centrality of work in American society and tie uplifting policies to work; increase workers’ power in the workplace, whether or not they are unionized; and provide gains to workers that are easy to identify and understand.

    Why can’t Democrats stop with the “ladder of opportunity”? It lost in 2010, 2014, and 2016. It’s a loser. People hate it and they should hate it- it’s horrible.

    Stop. No more ladders of opportunity. No one knows what we’re talking about, it’s too complicated and it sounds like we’re scolding working people because their wages haven’t gone up! You don’t blame the least powerful people in the system FOR the system, especially if you’re “system people” who believe in a robust government role. You don’t build political campaigns around telling them their work isn’t worth anything.

    What do they do for work NOW? How could that be better for them? Ask them!

  13. 13

    OT and a happier note than treason, I got a nice comment over at Flickr from The Huntington about this picture.

  14. 14
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: Who said that?

  15. 15
  16. 16
    debbie says:

    I don’t understand how Trump can say Sessions should have told him he would recuse himself when he was interviewing people for the job. Is this something Sessions could possibly have known at that time? Sessions was nominated in mid-November, approved on February 1, and then recused himself on March 2, one day after the WaPo reported Sessions met with Kislyak on two occasions.

    Am I missing something? If not, why hasn’t Trump been called on blaming an impossible situation?

  17. 17
  18. 18
    Mnemosyne says:

    @debbie:

    It’s not an impossible or unforeseen situation if Trump and Sessions conspired together on the Russian stuff throughout the campaign.

    Just sayin’.

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I kind of like the first one better.

  20. 20
    germy says:

    @MomSense:

    What more will it take before people acknowledge that Trump is playing for team Russia?

    They’ll never acknowledge it, because then they’d have to admit they were played for suckers. And that’s bad for their self image.

  21. 21

    @Baud: Heh, shows what I know.

  22. 22

    Open thread…

    Hour 8/12, of day 2/5, of our big conference. Not really worth the $35 per diem we’re getting, I must say. And I’m doing tech support, which is unfun. I’ve developed zero webs this week, although I’m managing to work on my novel during lulls.

    At least people are reading my comic, though!

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Woohoo! And cool picture :)

  23. 23
  24. 24
    Kay says:

    @Yarrow:

    I’m sorry. I forgot the link.

    I worry that even if they get Trumpster on the ropes they still won’t win because, frankly, their “economic plan” starts to work sometime in like 2050. They are still listening to the “ladders of opportunity” people. I can tell. They have to let it go. It’s bad.

    This is an exaggeration but if someone tell you they drive a truck for work you don’t start talking about driverless cars. They’re not “futurists”- they can’t be like 20 years out. I’m a Democrat and even I’m like “so…my grandchildren will have…opportunity?” I mean that’s nice and all but it’s not really “inspiring” in the way they seem to think it is. The thing about “futurists” is they are financially secure. That’s why they can do all that predicting.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    One of my coworkers was up there for a conference, but his was last week.

  26. 26

    @Major Major Major Major: Thanks, I noticed a couple of sensor spots that need fixing 😒.

  27. 27
    Schlemazel says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    You could have saved us all a lot of trouble by saying it was the new repugnant to start with so we could ignore it

  28. 28
    Divf says:

    @Major Major Major Major: ha! I’m done with *my* workshop. Three days with Giant Computer Corporation while the told us all about their double secret plans for world domination. The NDAs had to be signed in blood.

    All that’s left is the 6.5 hour flight from Boston to sfo.

  29. 29
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @debbie: Right. What was Sessions going to tell him: “I plan on recusing myself after committing perjury in my confirmation hearings, and then I’ll leave all my past contacts with Russian spy officials off the security disclosure forms.”

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Schlemazel:

    Believe it or not, the New Republic actually has a point for once. Stopped clock and all that.

  31. 31
    ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    As has been said many times, the only loyalty drumpf has is to himself. Not family, not nation not party, no one but himself. All that said, he isn’t all that loyal to himself either. He has, through his stupidity, his lack of understanding of anything other than screwing everyone else, cost himself billions. IOW he’s a fucking idiot.

  32. 32

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Yeah, it was really impressive. In the sort of way something like that can be ‘impressive’.

    @Schlemazel: Or you could read it, because it’s good.

  33. 33
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    It’s good to have input from futurists, but they shouldn’t be running the show as they often seem to be.

  34. 34
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Kay: I dunno, I hate hearing about e-verify though.

  35. 35
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Perhaps both thought no one would figure out their campaign shenanigans. You’d think the past eleventy billion episodes of covering up might have served as a warning to them.

    I wish just one reporter would call Trump out on his silly statement about this. Even Shep Smith.

  36. 36
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: What conference is this, if you don’t mind telling us? We did ours in May, and the attendance fee was a LOT more than $35. Probably worth it, though.

    I mean, we had explosions and fire come out of the stage (on purpose) during the keynote. That had to be worth some cash.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I guess it’s easier than trying to win elections.

  38. 38
    Lee says:

    So the intelligence community is butthurt over the first meeting or the second?

    Because from this is it seems like the first. If that is the case has anyone told them about the second?

  39. 39
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kay: I get WHY they’re doing it – they don’t want to be accused of giving away your hard-earned dollars to those people.

    Except we’re getting accused of that anyway. When you can’t even champion a minimum wage increase (or the existence of the wage itself) without being called a Commie who doesn’t understand economics by every Conservative newscasters, official and facebook-idiot you need to stop worrying about cagily messaging and be fucking upfront about what you’re doing and why.

    @Lee: The IC is unhappy with both. McMasters is specifically unhappy about the first and how it was handled. He’s likely pissed about the 2nd as well, but all we know there is that numerous staffers and IC people are hopping mad about it – especially since the first meeting happened and then Trump exacerbated the problem with the second meeting.

  40. 40
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m going to go to a writer’s retreat at the same place they do Bruin Camp. It looks nice on their website.

  41. 41
    rk says:

    Trump said he talked adoption with Putin. I think he probably used the opportunity to pass on all our intelligence information and rat out our human assets in Russia. No way they talked adoption. Proof will be if a whole lot of spooks end up dead.

  42. 42
    JPL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That is wonderful news. I always enjoy your photos.

  43. 43
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): I like how across the political spectrum flabby dorky Internet beardos get to think they’re such authentic street-fighting badasses. My friend (ish) from grad school who loves that podcast is also a flabby dorky beardo with a Ph.D., who of course thinks that the future of politics is all about the working class. It’s mind-boggling.

  44. 44
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    Socialism isn’t just about equality for its own sake, but also the lived experience of fraternity and sorority, of politics as the work of brothers and sisters joined together to make a better world. It’s hard to square the professed socialism of the Dirtbag Left with calls to “bend the knee.” Beyond violating leftist ideals, dominance politics seems like a tactic doomed to fail. Politics is about persuasion and coalition-building. While it’s true that Trump ascended to the presidency with simian displays of dominance, and now leads a formidable personality cult that dominates the Republican Party, this is hardly a model that the left should emulate. Derision is useful for one half of politics—defeating the opposing party—but has nothing to say to the crucial other half of forming alliances that can govern effectively for the people.

    If Sanders-style democratic socialism is to become the core of the Democratic Party, its adherents will have to win over those who supported Clinton-style progressivism. There are surely few worse ways of accomplishing this than demanding that they “bend the knee,” which is more likely to breed resistance than assent. Convincing Democrats to adopt a more radical politics is challenging enough without trying to insult and humiliate them into submission.

    Didn’t have the heart to check the Twitter feed, but Jeet has it right.

    The “Dirtbag left” is toxic and divisive using tactics like that “bend the knee” shit. They can’t create, just destroy. What they don’t understand is that they have prove themselves and their strategies first before anyone will willingly follow them

  45. 45
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @rk: “Talking adoption” means “removing sanctions on wealthy Russian individuals that conspired to kill whistleblowers.”

    It probably did come up, though. In the sense that Trump and Putin decided to double down on the “adoption” PR story.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    James Powell says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    I thought the French were cheese eating surrender monkeys? Do I need to update my wingnut encyclopedia?

    In accordance with Cleek’s Law, this can change in a day

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: I had never heard of them before. It least they are honest in the name of their show.

  49. 49

    @Baud: What is?

    @MisterForkbeard: Oh, this one costs a lot more than $35/day. That’s our cash allowance per diem as workers.

  50. 50

    @Mnemosyne: Bruin Woods up by Arrowhead?

  51. 51
  52. 52
    SatanicPanic says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: I’ve been telling anyone who will listen that I’m fine with Sanders’ message becoming more prominent, but they HAVE to grapple with the fact that people genuinely did prefer Hillary or they’ll get nowhere. So far, that’s been a difficult message to get across.

  53. 53

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Didn’t have the heart to check the Twitter feed, but Jeet has it right.

    You’re not missing out, in response they basically called him a fat cocksucker.

    @Baud: Ah, yes.

  54. 54
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Exactly. “Your strategy doesn’t work. Thus the only alternative is to do our strategy 100% balls to the wall, never mind whether it works or not anywhere, because reasons.” Are these guys the origin of the “Dems lost ONE THOUSAND SEATS” thing that never ends among hardcore wannabe-left douchebags?

  55. 55
    lamh36 says:

    Deutsche Bank Is Turning Over Information on Trump http://www.vanityfair.com/news.....ank-russia

  56. 56

    @Baud: The people’s revolution will be won by calling every Dem who doesn’t agree with us f*gtatds.

  57. 57

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: That’s why Kay always says to them, go out and win elections, we’ll follow.

  58. 58

    @JPL: Thanks, I enjoy taking them and making them look somewhat good.

  59. 59
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That will surely win hearts and minds and bring about a egalitarian utopia

  60. 60
    piratedan says:

    had a very small insight… I finally figured out which movie character Trump reminded me of…. Ellis from Die Hard.

  61. 61
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @MisterForkbeard: “Adoption” is the emotional blackmail the dirty Russians like to use. “I am so sorry that because of Magnitsky Act so many orphans do not have homes in your country, this is sad would you not say?”

  62. 62
    germy says:

    @lamh36:

    Bank Is Turning Over Information

    Won’t they be incriminating themselves?

  63. 63
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That makes sense. I can’t imagine running a convention in the Bay Area for that little.

    I think ours was $90/day, but it was in Vegas. So everything cost more. That said, they did provide a shitty buffet lunch and free muffins for breakfast, so that $90 could go entirely into dinner and drinks.

  64. 64
    Tim C. says:

    @debbie:
    A) Trump is a much different kind of liar than most humans and even politicians and benefits from the complete lack of accountability the right-wing media complex has for it’s own tribal members. He’s not just a liar, he’s really bad at it. Of course it was impossible… which brings me to point B

    B) Sessions had no intention of recusing himself under any circumstances. Article on Slate got me thinking about this, http://www.slate.com/articles/.....ation.html Something else, something major about Sessions isn’t known to the general public and *maybe* not even to Trump. Comey was almost smirking during his testimony about how he *knew* Sessions would recuse himself. No hard data of course, I’m inferring this item exists and it’s related to Russia.

    C) Sessions was forced to recuse himself. As in really forced. Someone or a small group of someone’s has something and made him a deal to not interfere. This explains why he was so shaken and talked about asking others when he announced his recusal. I’m betting Trump himself doesn’t know what this item is as he would be blabbering about it, but it’s something

    D) The indictments will come down, and they will be mostly related to money, not collusion. Alternately, Trump will attempt, and likely succeed to remove Mueller in the near to mid term as he closes in on the money issues.

  65. 65
    Baud says:

    Baud! 2020!: You people are fucking swine!

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @germy: Better that than deal with Merkel.

  67. 67
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: The whole “movement” is basically walking up to the scene of a broken-up bar fight and saying “I totally woulda kicked that guy’s ass.”

  68. 68
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Baud:
    The name of the show is Chapo Trap or something. It’s a podcast I’ve never heard of. The hosts look like you’d expect them to look: geeky neckbeards

  69. 69
    Schlemazel says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    color me skeptical. If I go read that & it is them doing their thing I will be most unhappy, this is not April 1

  70. 70

    @MomSense:

    What more will it take before people acknowledge that Trump is palying for team Russia?

    A lot of them wouldn’t believe it if Trump told them himself. I saw a poll yesterday that 32% of Republicans don’t think Donnie, Jr. had a meeting with Veselnetskimbolimboshabalabadongdongov and her entourage, even though Jr. told us he did. There’s no way to reach people–and I use the word loosely–like that.

  71. 71
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Yes. Win an election and prove it can be replicated. Don’t expect your allies to completely capitualte to you without good credibility

  72. 72

    @Major Major Major Major: They told him to get David Frum’s dick out of his mouth.

    Christman also said Chait & Tandem were no more amenable to socialism than Cernovich or Alex Jones.

  73. 73
    Penn says:

    Maybe ‘talking adoption’ means ‘talking about being adopted by Putin’.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Frankly, I’m having a hard time not seeing these people as a symptom of the same white identity crisis that gave us Trump.

  75. 75
    bystander says:

    I was reading a theory as to why Macron took twitler to les Invalides and Putin to Versailles. In fact when I saw Macron showing Trump around les Invalides, I thought it was really weird. But it does make sense if you’re trying to impress a dummy with the glory of a tomb of a nation’s hero but pointing out how he failed miserably and ended up exiled. Macron evidently wanted to remind Putin of the times France beat Russia.

    Trump of course explained that Napoleon modernized Paris. Of course it was Napoleon III, but Macron probably misinformed him.

  76. 76

    @FlipYrWhig: This is a wonderful description.

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Chapo Trap House. I see them pop up on my Facebook feed from time to time, mostly from casual lefties (not so much the Jacobin crowd), the same people who follow, well, the other sources Heer lists. Their Patreon numbers are certainly nothing to sneer at–that’s a lot of followers putting their money where their mouth is!

    They’re numerous enough and loud enough that it’s fair to call them out as the id of a certain kind of lefty.

    @Schlemazel: Fine. Don’t. Whatever. We read it and are talking about it.

  77. 77

    @MomSense:

    What more will it take before people acknowledge that Trump is palying for team Russia?

    Him publicly announcing it, then fleeing to live out his days in a dacha outside Moscow. Even then, plenty of Trumpeters would claim he had been framed.

  78. 78
    Baud says:

    Can we go ahead an cancel the 2020 Democratic Convention? Let’s just do it by Snapchat.

  79. 79
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @SatanicPanic:
    Some still to this day believe the DNC rigged the primaries. I mean come on. They give you this link to thousands of emails and tell you to search for yourself. Fuck that, give me exerpts. Burden of proof, how does it work? I guess they don’t teach that in high school.

    It’s too much for the real deadenders to accept that Wilmer lost fair and square

  80. 80
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):

    If Sanders-style democratic socialism is to become the core of the Democratic Party, its adherents will have to win over those who supported Clinton-style progressivism. There are surely few worse ways of accomplishing this than demanding that they “bend the knee,” which is more likely to breed resistance than assent. Convincing Democrats to adopt a more radical politics is challenging enough without trying to insult and humiliate them into submission.

    @
    And why do a pack of 20 somethings assume they can win such a contest with people who are literly their parents?

    As far as drawing leadership lessons from Trump; what’s the line from Game of Thrones “Any man who has to tell everyone he is king is not”, or something like that.

  81. 81
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Same place. I guess that’s where the big UCLA conference center is. The retreat is through the UCLA Extension Writer’s Program, which is so good that LMU poached half their professors for their screenwriting program.

  82. 82
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Baud: When, oh when, will politics and punditry FINALLY give a fair shake to the opinions of angry white people, the most oppressed and silenced group in all the land?

  83. 83
    Baud says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Trump invokes Wilmer all the time. It’s to his discredit that he doesn’t tell Trump to knock it off.

  84. 84

    @Baud: Completely agree. If the term ‘alt-left’ means anything, it refers to these guys.

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: These are the sorts of people from whom I see reference to Chapo and their ilk.

  85. 85
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
    Were these fans or the hosts themselves?

  86. 86
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Schlemazel:

    Goku quoted a big chunk at #44. If you disagree, then the article’s not for you.

  87. 87
    Baud says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I can’t remember the last time a saw a white male lefty on Chris Hayes’ show. It’s wall to wall women and minorities now, except for the first 15 minutes when it’s a Republican.

  88. 88
    germy says:

    A 49-year-old Michigan woman was found guilty of first-degree murder on Wednesday on the basis of witness testimony about the moment she killed her husband.

    According to the BBC, that witness was an African Grey parrot named Bud, whose repetitive mimicry of his owner Martin Duram’s dying words helped a jury convict Duram’s wife Glenna of his 2015 murder.

    “Don’t shoot!” the bird cried in eerie imitation of Martin Durum’s desperate plea for his life. “Don’t f*cking shoot!”

    Martin Durum’s ex-wife Christina Keller — who now has custody of Bud — said that after she took the parrot in, he began to repeat the words over and over.

    If dolt45 had a pet parrot I wonder if it would speak in Russian?

  89. 89
    Fair Economist says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    The “Dirtbag left” is toxic and divisive using tactics like that “bend the knee” shit. They can’t create, just destroy.

    I know it’s tinfoilly, but at this point when I hear about intentionally divisive and destructive “leftists” like this I think they’re probably shams being backed by Russia or the rightwingers. Too many of these long-term bombthrowers turn out to be working with Russia (Jill Stein) or have suddenly become apologists for Trump (Naked Capitalism, also Greenwald although he’s libertarian). Genuine socialists like Sanders are willing to work with the center-left.

  90. 90
    Brachiator says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    OT and a happier note than treason, I got a nice comment over at Flickr from The Huntington about this picture.

    Great photo. All kudos are well deserved.

  91. 91
  92. 92
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Baud:

    Frankly, I’m having a hard time not seeing these people as a symptom of the same white identity crisis that gave us Trump.

    Ya think? 🤣

  93. 93
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: Yep. This always annoyed the shit out of me. All those e-mail dumps and literally all you have is some people complaining about Bernie… and once someone proposed talking to the media about him, and that was immediately shut down as inappropriate.

    Oh, and Donna Brazile gave Hillary maybe two debate questions that happened to be obvious. They were “What will you do about the water quality” in Flint, and “Do you want to explain your position on the Death Penalty”.

    The Horror. The Horror.

  94. 94
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I remember finding this interactive chart useful a couple of months ago, just to keep track of the major players, and bookmarked it at the time. As far as I can tell, CNN hasn’t updated it since early May. Certainly Junior isn’t there, and should be. There’s no detail, but it’s a quick potted summary of the number of people in Trump’s family/circle of friends/administration/cabinet with Russian ties.

  95. 95
  96. 96
    Kay says:

    Here’s the thing. You have to really talented to sell a dog like “ladders of opportunity” and Obama was really talented.

    The other Democrats are not. They don’t have to feel bad. It’s rare. People like him don’t come around every day and that’s OKAY as long as we recognize our limits :)

    There’s only two people like Obama and Bill Clinton not because we haven’t looked hard enough but because it’s rare to be that good at politics. Martin O’Malley isn’t talented enough to overcome the lousiness of “ladders of opportunity”. He’s just not.

  97. 97
    jl says:

    @Baud: You expect Trump and his gang to be honest about anything at all? Trumpster flunkies are going after Sanders. It turns out that the FBI investigation into the mess his wife made of that college is from complaint made by a close Trump associate, and this Trump wardheeler is also behind attempts to extend the investigation to Wilmer himself.

    The idiot who is starting that insulting shock-jock approach to persuading people to take sides in the pointless infighting over the last war that is the HRC/Sanders feud is going to have zero impact, except among the left’s version of the Trumpsers, IMHO.

  98. 98

    @Baud: That’s my candidate!

  99. 99
    germy says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Oh, and Donna Brazile gave Hillary maybe two debate questions that happened to be obvious.

    Drumpf knew ahead of time what questions he’d be asked. The woman “bleeding from her whatever” was planning some tough questions, and drumpf complained about it before the debate.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    @jl:

    have zero impact, except among the left’s version of the Trumpsers, IMHO.

    Well, they had a nonzero impact in 2016.

  101. 101
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    For the most part but, unfortunately, not solely. I’m thinking of SC’s ex-friend who insists that she’s not a racist while supporting the DHS keeping brown people from visiting the US.

  102. 102
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    I got a nice comment over at Flickr from The Huntington about this picture.

    The Huntington has exquisite taste. Beautiful photo! (I have a huge weakness for pictures with reflections.)

  103. 103

    @Major Major Major Major:
    (*sees The War Nerd* listed) Dolan’s doing podcasts now?

    I actually was an avid reader of eXiled Online during middle school, but I lasted about three years before I fucking quit. The vibe I got from them wasn’t “righteous indignation” but rather “these fucking people have Pacific-level reservoirs of free-floating hatred and are only incidentally against right-wingers” (especially Momus film critic Eileen Jones and fucking monster Mark Ames); it was all incredibly draining. The last straw was when I caught wind of John Dolan’s hit job on Orwell.

  104. 104

    @Mnemosyne: I took Korean through UCLA Extension, though it was taught on campus.

  105. 105
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: Do they even actually _want_ a “radical politics”? It mostly just seems like they want to be in charge of communication strategy and assume it would be so awesome that all the people who aren’t voting for the right kind of candidates now would get with the program and then the politicians they voted for, who would be super cool, would do… something… and everyone would be happy. And I still don’t know why a bunch of people with glasses and podcasts keep acting like the working class is their shock troops. I know it’s just Marx-inspired “vanguardism” but, again, there’s no proof that it fucking well WORKS and they appear to have no plan to test it beforehand.

  106. 106
    SatanicPanic says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷: I took them at their word that there was something worth looking at, so I went and found the “worst” of the ones that they were talking about. I was underwhelmed. I don’t know how to get through to these people. I assume some of them are lost, but hopefully we can come to an agreement with some of them.

  107. 107
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Oh Christ….

  108. 108
    jl says:

    @Baud: I think the results of 2016 were a mix of a number of factors, and the electoral college results was a knife edge affair the depended on less than 100,00 votes in three states. I think a mistake to focus on a single factor.

    And I’ve seen analysis of turnout that supports idea that white anxiety driving turnout, while very important among Trump support, was not a critical factor in the result. White turnout was not significantly higher than previous years. And white bigot anxiety has been driving GOP support for decades.

    I disagree with a lot of commenters here. I think the 2016 results was the result of many factors that resulted in a very small margin in just a very few states. And, that very small popular vote margin in a very few states was caused by many factors. I think focusing on just one or two big demons as the culprits is a mistake. And leads us into refighting the last battle, rather than preparing for the next ones.

  109. 109
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @bystander:

    it does make sense if you’re trying to impress a dummy with the glory of a tomb of a nation’s hero but pointing out how he failed miserably and ended up exiled.

    Trump’s response was to marvel at the grandeur of Napolean’s sarcophagus and to commission plans for something larger for himself, but with gold leaf.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    I would respectfully suggest, jackals, that we’re thinking of this wrong. It isn’t that Bill Clinton and Obama promoted great Democratic ideas- it’s that Bill Clinton and Obama were good enough at it to overcome bad Democratic ideas and get elected anyway.

    So. If we don’t have an extraordinary messenger we can’t get away with a bad message and since we can’t create another one of those two out of whole cloth we should fix the part we can fix, because there are lot more Martin O’Malleys than there are Obamas and we’re likely to get a Martin O’Malley.

  111. 111
    Jeffro says:

    So billionaire GOP Mike Fernandez dropped a major public truth bomb just a bit ago: Trump is “an abortion of a human being” and he’s pissed that no one in the GOP will stand up to his Russia loving and other insanity.

    Dayum

  112. 112
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @debbie: And I cannot believe how the GOP is embracing his treason and encouraging him to go even further. It’s astonishing that the Party of Reagan has become the Party of Putin. We’ll have to tell our grandchildren that there was a time when Republicans distrusted Russians. Those days are gone.

  113. 113

    @Baud: He stopped having the junior Senator from Vermont on his show?

  114. 114
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Mmmm, Korean take-out.

    ;)

  115. 115
    Baud says:

    @jl: I agree with many factors. I’m just saying they were one of the factors. Not as important as other factors, but not irrelevant.

  116. 116
  117. 117
    Jeffro says:

    (Just came out in Politico… The same organization that carried the “Trump is fat/the least athletic president in history” article Tuesday)

  118. 118
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @debbie: You’re not going to get that worthless hack Haberman to do it.

  119. 119
    debbie says:

    @Tim C.:

    As one commenter at your link said, the recusal was a “rare moment of integrity,” which is true. I think he had to do it; it would have come out eventually. Doubt Jeffy would look forward to a prison vacation, considering his dotage.

  120. 120
    debbie says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Clearly. But someone at his go-to source of news certainly could.

  121. 121
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @SatanicPanic: I guarantee you that the people claiming that if you just looked at the email dump you too would see how it showed DNC perfidy… did not themselves look at the email dump. It was a dominance display like the chucklefucks from the podcast apparently do. It’s a self-perpetuating circle of bullshit fueled by egging each other on, same way FoxBots and racist email-forwarding uncles do.

  122. 122
    jl says:

    @Baud: I think the ‘white working class’ (aka uneducated white bigot) Trump vote, and self-righteous dipshits on the left, are going to do what they are going to do. Those types of voters will always be here. I don’t worry too much about them. It’s a free country and we can’t stop them from spouting their BS. Better to concentrate on persuading normal people not to listen to them.

    I don’t want either HRC or S*****s to run again, but if either of them decide to, it’s a free country and I won’t complain about it. Similarly with some jackass who gets his kicks from insulting people for not just exactly meeting his idea of the prefect new model progressive.

  123. 123

    @jl:

    I disagree with a lot of commenters here. I think the 2016 results was the result of many factors that resulted in a very small margin in just a very few states. And, that very small popular vote margin in a very few states was caused by many factors. I think focusing on just one or two big demons as the culprits is a mistake. And leads us into refighting the last battle, rather than preparing for the next ones.

    Totally agree, but it’s more fun to complain about specific things that bug me.

  124. 124
    Kay says:

    @Jeffro:

    Trump is “an abortion of a human being”

    It’s nice in a way. Trump lacks character and as it turns out that’s more important than money or education or bluster.

    If Trump had a shred of humility he could have had legislative gains. Democrats go there to govern and they’re “activists” in the sense that they believe in government’s ability to improve lives. If he has opened with a real infrastructure bill or even not continued to attack Hillary Clinton he could have been really different – we could be watching the Trump bridge repairs start. People would love that. It’s visible and practical.

    But it’s not in him. Because he lacks character.

  125. 125
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    That will surely win hearts and minds

    There’s a fairly regular commenter over at BooMan’s place — can’t remember the name, can’t be bothered to go look — who uses a tag quoting LBJ* “Grab ’em by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow.”

    *pace raven

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @jl: I actually agree. The onus is on us to find allies among people who want to be our allies, and not to waste time in people who hate us or who are solely looking to exercise leverage over us.

  127. 127

    @Brachiator: Thanks.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Then you’ll like this one, the kid really liked it.

  128. 128
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    I don’t think you’ll find too many people here who think the last election was driven by a single factor. But we will dispute the people who claim that Hillary Clinton was the worst candidate ever run by the Democratic Party.

    And I do think that racism and misogyny were HUGE factors in the election, particularly among the white voters who switched from Obama to Trump.

  129. 129

    @NotMax: I enjoy Korean food, but this was language classes.

  130. 130
    Kay says:

    @Jeffro:

    Character in a President is necessary (but not sufficient) That’s oddly heartening.

  131. 131
    jl says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    ” Totally agree, but it’s more fun to complain about specific things that bug me. ”

    It is true that on this blog we emulate our Dear Leader Cole in all things!
    Since I think the stakes are too high to indulge in that in politics now, I am trying to limit myself to complaining about Cole himself, and getting on Anderson’s case for not posting about insurance oligarch hookers and blow, like Mayhew did.

  132. 132

    @Baud: You had me worried about Chris for a minute there.

  133. 133
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @bystander:

    Trump of course explained that Napoleon modernized Paris. Of course it was Napoleon III, but Macron probably misinformed him.

    You’ve seen one Napoleon, you’ve seen ’em all.

  134. 134
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I don’t think she’s the worst ever, at all. I do think there are very talented messengers, though, and she isn’t one of them. It’s not a slam on her. Almost no one is “one of them”. There’s like 5. It’s really rare to be one of them.

  135. 135
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Jeffro:

    no one in the GOP will stand up to his Russia loving and other insanity.

    Dayum

    I gather that because many in the GOP know that the Russians hacked the RNC and have dirt on Trump and other Republicans, they have to play along with Trump’s Russiamania. Otherwise, this kowtowing to Russia by the GOP doesn’t make any sense.

  136. 136
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It is important to push back some, however. Silence is consent.

  137. 137
    bemused says:

    @lamh36:

    Hmm, hope his reported short sleep routine is much shorter, nightmare ridden and he wakes up in cold sweats.

  138. 138
    chris says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I liked them better when they were the silent majority rather than the silenced majority.

  139. 139
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: That’s fine. I just don’t think those are issues that will be critical factors in upcoming elections, so I’m not going to get involved in the arguments. But apparently I cannot help myself from throwing cold water on those types of debates here, when my will weakens.

  140. 140

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m going to go to a writer’s retreat at the same place they do Bruin Camp. It looks nice on their website.

    Is that the Lake Arrowhead Conference Center? We have an annual retreat advance* there, and it is very nice. Just be ready for the hills.

    *Even scientists do stupid euphemisms

  141. 141
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I was listening to Warren give a speech the other day and I would guarantee that the same group of people who hated Clinton’s voice will hate Warren’s. It all goes to hell with volume. I think it’s partly because she’s small- she’s a small person, which I didn’t realize. She has to put so much effort into volume.

    Women candidates have to figure this out. I agree it’s sexism but there it is. They have to get around it.

  142. 142

    @Kay: You can probably add Gillibrand’s to that list, although for different reasons than the other two.

  143. 143
    Kay says:

    It’s hard to put together the whole thing. So you could reasonably say Sherrod Brown would be a good candidate – he wins in a 50/50 state and he’s quite liberal, he’s rumpled and appealing, very smart, has a sense of humor, he’s “clean” in the sense of not corrupt, but he’s a bad public speaker and an unusually bad debater.

  144. 144
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Any man who must say, “I am the King”, is no true king.

    Tywin Lannister.

  145. 145
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    IIRC, Obama was pretty open about the fact that, early on, he made a point of learning how to give a speech and how to project, because it’s an important skill for a politician.

    Kamala Harris is only 5 foot 4, but she has a pretty big voice, probably because she was a prosecutor, not a law professor.

  146. 146

    @Kay:

    I was listening to Warren give a speech the other day and I would guarantee that the same group of people who hated Clinton’s voice will hate Warren’s.

    I think there are a few groups of people who hated Clinton’s voice. Some of them would hate any woman’s voice, some of them would hate Warren’s voice in particular, but some of them just hated everything about Clinton.

  147. 147
    Schlemazel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Its not new ground and I am tired of in fighting. Sorry

  148. 148
    SatanicPanic says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I think you’re right, cause there was nothing in there that was that notable.

  149. 149
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    That’s the one. I need to build up my stamina anyway, so I’ll probably re-start my lunchtime walks now. I have a nice new windproof umbrella that is working really well as a parasol, even on windy days.

  150. 150
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: He also invented the napoleon dessert in an arms race before the Duke of Wellington could invent Beef Wellington. I saw that in a documentary by Woody Allen.

  151. 151
  152. 152
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Baud: How’d that work out for LBJ?

  153. 153
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I only heard her the one time in that Russia hearing but she is good. It’s not about being “feminine” it’s just sounding natural – whatever “natural” is. Clinton had this horrible thing where her face didn’t match what she was saying. She’d be like “affordable college for all” and she’d look mad. I think people perceive that as dishonest. I don’t think she’s dishonest. I don’t know why it didn’t match. It’s disconcerting.

  154. 154
    jl says:

    @Kay: @Kay: I think if either Warren or Brown can tap into public concerns and frustrations, their supposed electoral drawbacks won’t be as big a problem as we fear.

    Look at the Drumpf and S*****s. By conventional standard, both pretty crummy politicians on national stage, But both far outperformed expectations. Though I don’t think S*****s. will do as well next time, so people are nuts, who have fallen in love with a 2020 candidacy as some sure fire guarantee of success.

    I think public is disgusted with what the perceive as the mainstream of both Democratic and Republican parties, and we will have to live with the reality for next couple of election cycles. Though I think people like The Rock and Kid Rock (I get the names right?) who think they can do a knock off Trump and see similar success are mistaken

    Edit: I look at various poll aggregators regularly, and am happy to see GOP approval going further down the toilet, but alarmed to see Democratic party support continue to go down too. I don’t think just being the anti-Trump party is going to be enough for the Democrats.

  155. 155
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Kay: Arianna Grande and Christina Aguilera don’t have this problem, so I assume it’s not an insurmountable obstacle for a smaller person.

  156. 156
    polyorchnid octopunch says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I can guarantee you that’s the case. I worked in email (running a 10 million+ user email system) for nine years. Cranking through large email archives is basically duck soup to me, and I’ve applied those skills to various archives that have ended up public: the HB Gary Federal archive was one (that one was a doozy with many hidden “gems” that should’ve led to charges for some folks… a lawyer and a large business association in particular), and the DNC/Podesta leaks were another. There is no there there.

    Then again, learning how to go through those to find the things they’re looking for would require them to learn fun things like find, grep, awk, sed, etc. I think it’s highly unlikely any of those cretins would bother.

  157. 157

    @SatanicPanic: How tall is Ariana? I know that Aguilera & Lady Gaga are 5′ 2″ and 5′ 1.”

  158. 158
    polyorchnid octopunch says:

    @Patricia Kayden: That is what I think as well. Think about it. If you’re Russia, and you hack the main email archives of the two main US parties, which one do you expose and which one do you keep secret?

    You expose the one with the usual partisan blather and backstabbing because it’ll repel people, and you keep the one with the outright criminality in it secret because you can use it to get leverage over powerful individuals. Destabilization 101.

  159. 159

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): With a name like Arianna Grande I’d expect her to be at most 4.9 feet tall.

  160. 160
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Fuck that, I’m having Pêche Melba for dessert.

  161. 161
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): the internets tells me 5’3″?

    EDIT- I’m not heightist, but she looks smaller than that.

  162. 162
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I must confess, before the Manchester thing I had never heard of her.

  163. 163
  164. 164
    Laura says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Oh Billinglendale, that is so very lovely, perhaps among your best. It’ll be hard to top.

  165. 165
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @jl: I don’t know how you can improve the Democratic brand when the news is always reporting that “Congress” or “Capitol Hill” did something, rather than noting that Republicans voted party-line to remove healthcare or did something otherwise horrible while 99% of democrats voted against it.

    Meanwhile, there’s a huge cottage industry of alt-left and alt-right idiots that just believe that literally everyone in government is simultaneously corrupt and incompetent and are fed by genuinely “fake news”. Those people push and amplify literally everything, including things like the fairly unremarkable and public operations of the Clinton Foundation and turning it into a “slush fund”. These same people believe that the Clintons murdered several hundred people who crossed them.

    Without some actual honesty in media about who is pushing for what, it’s going to keep getting worse.

  166. 166

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’d heard of her but I couldn’t have told you anything other than “she sings, right?”

  167. 167
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @polyorchnid octopunch: I saw a recent one on Reddit. In one email, Podesta said hed wanted “to make an example of someone in the campaign”, and this was taken as prime evidence that he wanted Seth Rich killed.

    When others pointed out that this was kind of insane, several lefties and the the_donald people combined rushed in to call them sheep or wondered if they were paid by Democrats because they just wouldn’t open their eyes and SEE.

    It was kind of scary.

  168. 168
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Major Major Major Major: She pretty openly imitates Mariah Carey. That song she did with Jessie J is great if you like to hear two people oversing the crap out of something. I admit I kind of do. I was amused.

  169. 169
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I saw that same documentary. “Wheat. All the world is wheat.”

  170. 170

    @SatanicPanic: Somewhat tangential, but ever watch a rap video that tries to use a Scully box effect for the rappers but backfires and makes them look even tinier?

    (For context, all the rappers – except Nas – were 24 at the time and ranged from 5’3″ to 5’6″).

  171. 171
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Yep. Blackmailing the GOP and especially Trump with dirt you found during the RNC hack and when you videotaped peeing hookers. Perfect. For the Russians, that is. Not so much for the American people.

  172. 172
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): no haha, that’s funny!

  173. 173
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    several lefties

    If you’re a leftie and you seriously believe that the Democrats are killing people for whatever reasons, you may as well go and join the Republican party. As far as I’m concerned, they’re useless and have gone over to the other side and should be regarded as such.

  174. 174
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’d heard of her but I couldn’t have told you anything other than “she sings, right?”

    And even at that, you were about 1000% more informed than I.

  175. 175
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @MisterForkbeard:
    Yeah, r/the_Donald are a very special bunch. They once had a picture on their from page of Air Force One flying into the Kaaba.

    John Podesta doesn’t strike me as murderer but that’s just me

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    Hard to imagine a non-hinky explanation for Trump’s behavior, even for those of us with excellent imaginations.

    Trump is really in the closet and it really is an inappropriate mancrush on Putin.

    Which would also explain why he has so many Republican males around him and his daughter as his only female companionship.

    /Enjoy your brain bleach!

  177. 177
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷:

    Air Force One flying into the Kaaba.

    WHUT.

  178. 178
    NotMax says:

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Nellie Melba may have had a luscious voice but she sure was the inspiration for some crappy foods.

  179. 179
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Then you’ll like this one, the kid really liked it.

    Love it! Copied and saved to the “REFLECT” album in my “MyPics” app. Just beautiful.

  180. 180
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @NotMax:

    Hey! I happen to like Melba Toast!

  181. 181

    @SatanicPanic: See also the video for Black Moon’s “Stay Real.”

    As well as Havoc & Lil Kim during this year’s BET Awards. Lil Kim is about 4’11” without heels, and through the tribute she was noticeably contorting her figure so she’d still appear the shorter of the pair.

  182. 182
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    My mistake. It was him throwing a bomb.

    http://archive.is/dW03P

  183. 183
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Trump is really in the closet and it really is an inappropriate mancrush on Putin.

    Did you see at Digby the vid clip of Trump giving a “come hither” gesture to Putin at the G20 dinner? Like, “Me? You want me to come to you? Or will you come to me? Oh, okay, I’ll come to you.”

  184. 184
    Ruviana says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: And for a long time I only knew her as the girl who licked doughnuts and put them back. It’s kinda colored my opinion of her

  185. 185
  186. 186
    NotMax says:

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Trivial aside: Can almost immediately recognize any episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation which Jonathan Frakes directed because in/on any surface even remotely capable of showing a reflection, there was one.

    Became a running joke/drinking game among our little social group.

  187. 187
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Ruviana:

    And for a long time I only knew her as the girl who licked doughnuts and put them back.

    All of that came to my awareness post-Manchester. I honestly had never heard her name before that. That said, UGGGGHHH. Also, EWWWWWWWW.

  188. 188
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @NotMax:

    Oh, interesting. Am not a Trekkie (am not a non-Trekkie, you understand, just am not a Trekkie), so would not have noticed that directorial tic.

  189. 189

    @Ruviana: Sisters watched Victorious, where she was the series ditz.

  190. 190
    Ruviana says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. I’m not able to get past it.

  191. 191
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    That’s r/the_donald for you. Where batshit insane right wing eliminationist rhetoric and 9gag memes meet

  192. 192
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    The GOP has been wildly successful at their prime directive, which is to completely discredit the idea of government existing at all. They have managed to convince millions of Americans that our system is hopelessly broken and the best they can do is look out for #1. That’s why Democrats are being dragged down with them — just like with most cases of domestic violence, people assume that the victim must be to blame on some level if they’re “letting” themselves be abused.

  193. 193
    Central Planning says:

    @Major Major Major Major: How tall is Ariana Venti?

  194. 194
    WaterGirl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I have to die with you on this one! It’s happier.

  195. 195
    Fester Addams says:

    So who gets to bug the salt shakers at a shindig like that?

  196. 196
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: No puppet. No puppet. You’re the puppet. What I wouldn’t give for a bird to be repeating that!

  197. 197
    WaterGirl says:

    @WaterGirl: Not that it matters, but “die with you” was supposed to be “side with you”. Damn autocorrect.

  198. 198
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Time to start selling some of your shots!

  199. 199
    Davebo says:

    Only Trump, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and a translator made up the U.S. side.

    Pet peeve but it wasn’t a translator. It was an interpreter. Unless Don and Vlad were passing notes back and forth.

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