Your daily dose of national embarrassment:
At 64, Brigitte Macron is seven years younger than Trump. He was likely moved to render his fuckability rating aloud by the shock of not finding a woman of such advanced age to be the wizened old crone he expected. Or perhaps it was a comradely desire to signal to the 39-year-old Emmanuel Macron that he, Trump, now understands why Macron isn’t trolling high school cheerleader practices for the next Mrs. Macron. In any case, only one word will do: GROSS!
There are so many things I hate about Trump and his evil administration. I loathe the corruption, constant lies, ineptitude, greed, pettiness and rank stupidity. I’m disgusted daily by the racist, xenophobic, retrograde policies. I’m repelled by the advancement of the worst people and ideas in the country at the expense of the most vulnerable.
But on a personal level, the sexism is what rankles the most. In a recent column about Trump’s misogyny, Michelle Goldberg at Slate captured my feelings about the Trump presidency more perfectly than anything I could write myself:
I’m not sure that even well-intentioned men understand how relentlessly degrading this presidency is for many women. Having a man who does not recognize the humanity of more than half the population in a position of such power is a daily insult; it never really goes away. Perhaps this is why many women found the TV version of The Handmaid’s Tale so resonant, even though Trump, the former owner of a casino strip club, is the last person one can imagine instituting a Calvinist theocracy. Gilead’s fictional dystopia captures our constant incredulous horror at finding ourselves ruled by thuggish, unaccountable woman-haters who appear to revel in their own impunity.
She’s exactly right — it’s a daily degradation, and I will never forgive the people who made it possible. That so many of them were fellow white women is disgusting and enraging on equal levels. Le sigh. And open thread…
Hunter Gathers
The reasoning goes like this:
“Sure he’s a sack of pig shit, but, you know, The Blacks. And people who don’t go to my church”
lollipopguild
If you created trump in a Hollywood script your script would be rejected because that trump character is not believable .
Trentrunner
The only kindly-intended words Trump ever said to pubescent Ivanka were, “You taste just like your mother.”
The President of the United states is a serial sexual abuser and a rapist.
lollipopguild
@Trentrunner: And that’s what a lot of voters LIKED about him.
SenyorDave
Yuchhh!
Yarrow
I knew he’d say something! I even mentioned it in the morning thread.
Exactly right. It’s relentless and has allowed others to feel free to be more sexist and misogynistic as well. Along with the more open racism. It’s awful. I will never forgive. Never.
Quinerly
We were speculating an hour or so ago on the AM thread if Trump would say something way out of line to or about Mrs. Macron. She looked fantastic in the white short dress. Petite and blonde…such a contrast to Melania in that blood red get up. Yes, I’m being bitchy attacking Melania but I’m in my own home? and she looks like trash.
Villago Delenda Est
@lollipopguild: And this, right here, is what really pisses me off. We had a chance to elect one of the most qualified people EVER to be President, and a relative handful of moronic shitheads in three states defied the will of the majority of voters and made it possible for a sack of treasonous shit to be installed in the Oval Office.
Spanky
Not measurable, but I have no problem realizing that I’m incapable of reaching that depth understanding without experiencing it. Sadly, that puts me ahead of at least half the male population, by my estimate.
Trump is such an incomplete human being. If the entire country gets through this ordeal without some form of collective PTSD, it’ll be a miracle.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Misogyny and that whole “machismo” alpha male bullshit is degrading to women, but it’s also degrading to men who can’t fit into that superficial mold. Those ideals damage even the supposed “alpha males” that espouse them; it reduces them to insecure, thuggish assholes. It’s so sad that people go their entire lives like that such as Trump. What a waste of a life.
satby
@Hunter Gathers: for a lot of them it was “the feti and the zygotes” so the parallel to Handmaid’s Tale is on point. But in the book and in passing in the series it shows Catholic priests executed and a cathedral torched. The Evangelicals use the Catholic forced birthers for their own white supremacist ends, but Catholics aren’t Christian in Evangelical eyes.
Quinerly
@Yarrow:
Someone types fast! I’m on my smarty pants phone so fingers don’t fly. Glad you got there first!?
cokane
well said closing line, that Trump won white women is going to be fact that will never make sense to me
SatanicPanic
I don’t know how we put things back together after this. Anyone I know who voted for him, or has defended him since, I’m writing out of my life, at least where it comes to discussing politics (some are family and I can’t just ignore them entirely). They’ve committed a terrible act and I’m not going to try to talk to them to find out why, because it’s their f*cking job to make amends. But a nation isn’t going to work when this is what’s going on.
hellslittlestangel
The prevalence and intensity of misogyny in women never ceases to disturb me, even though I grew up with it. My mother was a fierce woman-hater, and was angry and miserable all through her life. I blame it mostly on christianity.
TenguPhule
Its almost as if they want to be barefoot, chained up and pregnant.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@satby: For sure, anyone who’s not a white, male evangelical is a second class citizen. I’m passingly familiar with Handmaid’s Tale. Does the book or the show ever explain what the rest of the world outside Gilead is like?
I understand the author was inspired by the 1979 Iranian Revolution and the resulting Islamic Republic for the book
Hunter Gathers
@satby: Most of the people I know who obsess over the “feti and the zygotes” are too old to have kids any more and stopped fucking when Bush 41 was in office.
Thoroughly Pizzled
We fucking warned them. Then again, he’s what they wanted.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@cokane: Whiteness “trumps” sex/gender apparently
Yarrow
@Quinerly: You were right there with me. Great minds and all. :) And you’re not being bitchy. Melania looked her usual not-quite-properly-attired self. I just don’t get it. She always looks just a little off in how she dresses. Things just don’t fit her quite right or something. If I were a designer I’d be worried that she doesn’t show off my clothes very well. She makes them look weird.
Villago Delenda Est
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: And humanity itself. A master race that is master only of fail.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
For the crime of voting and supporting Trump, 10 years hard labor on nationalized farms. Growing and picking crops under the watchful eyes of Native American and Mexican foremen. Physical punishments for failing to meet daily quotas. No access to media or electronics whatsoever.
It will give us a minimum of 10 years of peace.
Major Major Major Major
@cokane:
‘white’ > ‘woman’ in their sense of self.
Tim C.
@satby: nor are Mormons, that whole alliance is based 100% on the sexual behavior of others.
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I’ve only read the book, but I remember the Japanese in regular clothes visiting the US and gawking at how the women were dressed/treated. It was written back when everyone was all worried that the Japanese were going to own us.
oatler.
“The French are totally disgusting traitors and let them die horribly except their women are fapworthy and shall be added to the Bank.”
(actually many blog comments I’ve read)
Betty Cracker
@satby: I know that was true at one time (that evangelicals didn’t recognize Catholics as Christians), but I don’t think it is anymore, at least not most evangelicals. I could be wrong, but among the conservative Christians I know, it seems that doctrinal differences have gotten shallower over the past 30 years or so, and cultural markers matter much more now.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Presumably nuked or otherwise reduced to rubble as there is no mention of outside military threats and undesirable women (sterile, lesbians) are sent to clean up toxic waste zones as a form of death sentence.
JPL
Trump stuck to the script, and by stuck I mean he seldom lifted his face from the paper he was reading on. He even appeared to be reading “thank you for inviting Melania and I …..”
awkward
Another Scott
Trump is horrible. Everything about him is horrible. Even his official photo.
:-(
ICYMI, TheHill – New BCRAP bill includes a ‘version’ of the Cruz Amendment:
(Emphasis added.)
Eh? How would that work? Wouldn’t it necessarily drive up rates or reduce coverage for everyone in the pool? “Sure! Join our pool and initially pay half of what these other people with compliant plans pay. Oh, your policy doesn’t cover anything, but the overhead of carrying you means we have to raise the rates for everyone else. And since we don’t have to spend 80% on actual health care anymore (right?), and since we suckered you in with a low policy cost and found out about your pre-existing conditions that we won’t ever have to cover, it’s a big win for us. Welcome!!1”
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Quinerly
@Yarrow:
I generally am not comfortable with attacking other women’s appearances. That’s what I mean by being bitchy. The Trump women have changed me. Never knew I had this amount of hate in me. I guess it was deep and needs to get out.?
Shell
Just heard Trump, in his remarks (God, he looks bored stiff) said, “France is one of our oldest allies; not many people know that. Lafayette, blah, blah…”
Uh, no Trump. Most people who made it thru grade school know that…
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: it’s going to take something extraordinary
maurinsky
I know three women who voted for Trump that just will always vote for the Republican candidate, no matter who it is. They are motivated by anti-liberalism more than anything else, and it’s as much a class issue as a race issue – they think the poors just deserve bad things because they aren’t as hard working or as well married.
The daily reminder that a terrifyingly high percentage of white women voted for Trump just shows how deeply ingrained misogyny is, I think.
Quinerly
@JPL:
He’s having a rough time of it. Speech was horrendous. He’s struggling with the questions. He’s doing that snorting thing when he is breathing/talking.
Quinerly
Trump on Russian lawyer, “She was here because of Lynch.”
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Did he really say “Melania and I”? Oy.
@Another Scott: The official photo documents the multi-dimensional combover so well.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
I’m good with ironic punishments. Perhaps experiencing the life of a field slave for a decade will finally get them to realize just how bad the shit they and many of their ancestors did.
Villago Delenda Est
@Another Scott: Interestingly enough, week before last I had an appointment with my pharma doc at the VA. After we went over my blood stats and adjusted the diabetes meds, she escorted me out of the office to see some “contrasts in smiles”. She led me up to the official portraits of 45 and the VA secretary. VA secretary has this very attractive smile. Donald of course has his Vigo glare. She knows my politics, which align with hers, so she knew she wouldn’t be offending, but had to keep it low key because VA personnel are supposed to be professional and above that, but she had this huge grin on her face when I reacted.
JPL
@Quinerly: Some people say… wft
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Another Scott: Did the “Cruz Amendment” have any backing by health insurance experts? They’re playing with fire.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Scott: Isn’t that the same face he makes on all his teevee photos?
As for the insurance pooling thing, that only makes sense if it’s some sort of morality-based decision to lump all the Freedom Plan people together.
Betty Cracker
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Canada is more or less normal in the series (book too, I think — but it has been decades since I read it). Americans are trying to escape to it, and those who do are given refugee status. But there’s a worldwide fertility crisis that has every country on edge.
Quinerly
@Shell:
I guess you caught the talking point…Obama’s DOJ and Loretta Lynch let that Russian lawyer into the country.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule: If true, that’s scariest part, honestly. Nowhere to run to.
Hungry Joe
I’m whipsawed from despair to long-term optimism: Maybe, while cleaning up the mess that’s left after the shitshow, Americans — or enough of us, anyway — will see a glimmer, if not the full-on light. You have to hit bottom before … etc., etc. But I’m also aware that the “bottom” we’ve hit has trapdoors to still lower, nastier levels. Chutes & Ladders, folks. Chutes & Ladders.
Meantime, can anyone tell me why the biggest, healthiest-looking of my tomato plants (a Brandywine) put out ONE (delicious!) tomato, and since then has done nothing but grow, grow, grow, ever fruitless? Is it channeling a wife in “The Handmaid’s Tale”?
Quinerly
@JPL:
I still will never get used to it. His speeches, comments are so childish and bizarre. Then it hits me like a wave….HE’S THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. OMG.
SiubhanDuinne
Sketchy but believable reports that Jimmy Carter has been rushed to hospital in Winnipeg. He’s been in Canada for several days, helping to build houses with Habitat for Humanity. Hot day, and it sounds as though he got dehydrated and maybe a touch of sunstroke. No joke any time, but especially for a 92-year-old cancer survivor. All good wishes for recovery to one of my two favourite former presidents.
Major Major Major Major
@Quinerly: Yeah, he’s five. And the worst kind of five, at that.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Betty Cracker: Interesting geopolitical situation in that world. I can’t imagine everyone else is comfortable with a regime like Gilead having access to thousands of nuclear weapons. They’d probably like to intervene but can’t.
A choice between “soft” extinction or “hard” extinction. Not a great choice.
JanieM
@Yarrow: Same goes for the Trump males if you ask me. I keep wondering, how can people with that much money not at least dress themselves well…. No taste, I think is what it is. Look at those garish hotels.
dww44
@Thoroughly Pizzled: Still my favorite sign from the Women’s March is this one that was scrawled on a big piece of brown cardboard
Tried copying the photo of it, but obviously I’m not technologically savy enough.
Yoda Dog
As usual, I’m with you 100%, Betty. It’s the rampant, casual sexism that disgusts me the most.
I fucking hate these people. I’m not even shy about it anymore…
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: The regime does collapse as it was unsustainable. It’s not 1984.
Hal
Republicans need to make up their damn minds. Fox will run hour after hour of stories about Hillary’s collusion, all the while defending Trump for the same thing they claim Hillary Clinton did, even though she is not President. When Obama even remotely mentioned what he had inherited from GWB the right wing response was “get over it! Bush isn’t president anymore!!” Now suddenly someone who was never President is on equal level with the President and his lying family and admin? The hell.
LAO
Betty: I try to explain it to men by describing Trump’s election as a “kick in the throat.” You know, something that is both incredibly painful and silencing.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Hmm, knowing the French I am curious what Brigitte Marcon had to say in return (“Why Mr President, you do look so much, what’s the word,.. _larger_ in life than you do on TV. You do have quite a full presense. And your wife, she is so young and adorable. Reminds me of my daughter.” )
TenguPhule
Pence is up to his neck in the Russians too.
All Republicans are guilty unless proven otherwise.
dww44
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for that update. Any 92 year old, cancer survivor or not,former President or not, out doing physical labor on a muggy hot summer’s day is to be admired.
bupalos
@Major Major Major Major: Absolutely. This country (including large majorities of both parties and people of all “races”) just cannot digest how thoroughly soaked in the racial myth it is and has been and almost surely will continue to be.
TenguPhule
@LAO:
Kicks to the crotch have the same effect.
Just pointing that out.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule:
And you shall deny me three times…
Jeffro
“Trump’s a pig” – somehow, I feel like I’ve read this thread a couple times already.
Go call your Senators and tell them HELL NO on Obamacare repeal & Medicaid cuts, and HELL NO on (topic of your choice). Then go send $10 to Planned Parenthood. THEN, after all that, you can go back to the watercooler discussion about just how much a pig Trumpov is.
Yarrow
@Hungry Joe:
I don’t know where you live but if the nighttime temperatures are too warm then it never cools down enough for fruit to set. It’ll grow and bloom but no fruit will set.
@Quinerly: I’m not comfortable with attacking women’s appearances either. In Melania’s case her entire role seems to be to be arm candy. She has not made even a pretense of taking on any of the traditional First Lady role outside of the arm candy bit. She mostly just shows up when Donald needs a date, waves, walks near him, shakes hands with dignitaries and feigns interest in things. Her purpose appears to be to be an adornment for Donald. As such, she should look as good as possible without overshadowing him. She’s got the not-overshadowing part down but her clothes just look weird on her. I don’t get it.
TenguPhule
@Jeffro:
There are many ways to prepare a pig.
LAO
@TenguPhule: If I was a guy, yeah.
The Moar You Know
@cokane: Function of where you live. In my neck of the woods (upscale, suburban, wealthy) I’m pretty sure more white women then white men voted for Trump.
“Build the wall” got half of them on board, and being able to treat the Hispanic help as disposable slaves again got the other half on the train.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: Pence is in with the Russians. Manafort plant.
Edit: Forgot to say, I love the Biblical framing. “Three times he was asked. Three times he refused.” Heh. Hit him where he pretends to be Christian.
Nicole
Truth about the depths of women’s ingrained misogyny, and white folks’ ingrained racism. And it’s so pervasive.
The one that particularly gets me is that nowadays little girls’ tshirts are cut with nipped in waists and little cap sleeves. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THEY ARE CHILDREN. THEY’RE ALL BUILT LIKE BRICKS. THEY DON’T NEED A WAISTLINE.
And don’t get me started on the inseam length on little girl shorts versus little boy shorts. We start objectifying girls at such a young age. And girls absorb it and we learn quickly to turn it against each other.
TenguPhule
@LAO: Women have just as many nerve endings there. Damage from a hard kick can actually be worse for them then a man.
Betty Cracker
Does anyone else think Trump’s reaction to that plane crash that killed 16 service members earlier this week is oddly muted? The dude literally humps U.S. flags and yammers endlessly about the military, but AFAIK, his reaction to the plane crash was a single tweet. Weird.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule: Never read the book or seen the show. Collapse the regime eventually will, but what about in the meantime?
And I would argue that Ocenaia, and the other 2 superstates (assuming Oceania isn’t just a North Korea-like Britain) is ultimately unsustainable, if only for environmental reasons.
Most technology in 1984 remained very primitive, stuck in the 1940s. Tech back then was very dirty and inefficient, compared to today’s. Exacerbated by the choreographed “war”, resources would eventually be exhausted, if the air hadn’t become too saturated with Co2 for humans to breathe.
Hungry Joe
@Yarrow: San Diego, about five miles from the ocean. Been in the high 60s, low 70s at night. The other tomato plants haven’t complained.
O. Felix Culpa
@satby:
Yup. That was the *rationale* given by my fervent evangelical in-laws. We don’t talk much. Well, never, really.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Hal:
Can you blame them? It’s all they got for material
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
In the meantime, life really really sucks.
VOR
@Shell: Whenever you see Trump say “not many people knew that” it really means Trump didn’t know that before he read the speech.
schrodingers_cat
@dww44: Vichy Times and other assorted media still torpedoed HRC’s candidacy. Many people still thought it was a good idea to vote for him.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker:
Interesting observation. I think you might be right. I remember the days when Catholics and Mormons were most definitely classified as dangerous heretics by Evangelicals, but that view seems to have gone quiet. (Although there was some discussion around the issue during Romney’s candidacy. Voting for a sexual predator seems to have engendered far less soul-searching.)
The Moar You Know
@Yarrow: Well, she’s too skinny, for starters, even by “model” standards. She’d look better with about ten extra pounds.
The other thing, and it’s obvious in every pic I’ve ever seen of her, is that she’s insanely tense 24/7. Nobody’s going to look good when they’re on the knife edge of an explosion, and that, sadly, is her entire life.
WaterGirl
@SatanicPanic: It’s been almost a week, and I cannot get my brother-in-law’s words out of my head:
I love my borther-in law, he’s not a right winger, but his words are haunting me.
TenguPhule
@Villago Delenda Est:
Objection! Sacks of shit tend to smell less foul the older they become.
WaterGirl
@Hunter Gathers:
That made me laugh. It also makes me wonder what percentage of married people that might apply to.
aimai
@The Moar You Know: I am a white woman and I continue to believe that the very category “older married women” skews white and skews republican. Those women were simply carrying out their original propensity to vote republican regardless of the specific person behind the “R.” Older people in the US tend to be white, older women tend to be married. Married older people tend to be republican (depending on the state/region we are talking about) because of the way republican interests tend to jump with the interests of taxpayers/householders/proprietors.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@WaterGirl: Then he has to live with what he’s helped cause.
Yarrow
@Hungry Joe: Low 70’s could be too warm at night for Brandywine. I don’t know. The general rule of thumb is once nighttime temps go above 70 the fruit doesn’t set. It’s not hard and fast but just general.
I have had years where a tomato plant just does nothing. Looks great, blooms great, other tomato varieties in the vicinity are setting fruit, but this tomato just does nothing. It’s frustrating, that’s for sure.
John Weiss
@Hungry Joe: Could be a nutritional imbalance, probably too much nitrogen.
HeleninEire
Oh Jesus F Christ. This was the big SNARKEY JOKE on Wonkette this morning. They were all trying to come up with a funny sarcastic JOKE about what he might say to her.
You cannot, cannot parody that idiot. He beats you every time.
Shana
@Yarrow: Everything’s always just a little too tight on her. Ivanka wears her clothes the same way. I don’t know if it’s just how women of that “class” dress in NYC or if it’s them, but as a seamstress it bugs the hell out of me. Now that my daughter is buying work clothes I keep telling her don’t pay attention to the size on the label look at how things fit. Something that’s tight just makes you look like you weigh more than you do. Not that my daughter or the Trump women are heavy, it’s just the perception based on fit.
schrodingers_cat
@aimai: Even the business friendly town (fewer zoning restrictions, lower taxes and such) in my neighborhood went for HRC 67%.
Chet Murthy
@O. Felix Culpa: A while back I read a(n excellent) multipart article about the alliance betw. Catholics & Evangelicals. The Rs wanted to construct a sufficiently-large voting bloc; evangelicals were onboard, but weren’t populous enough. Evangelicals were (back then) mostly indifferent to abortion. But Catholics were even then anti-abortion. So getting Evangelicals to adopt anti-abortion positions was critical to getting the Catholics to sign up for the Moral Majority and all that stuff. ISTR the name Viguerie coming up, but that might be mere loose association.
In any case, it was all political machinations. Of course, I’m sure that both groups were misogynist back then, but of course, who wasn’t? “The politically correct position for women in the hippie movement is horizontal” after all. Lotta misogyny to go around.
Why (at least) women in the workplace don’t -only- support other women, is a mystery to me.
schrodingers_cat
@Shana: Also clothes which are too loose, see Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
gene108
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Almost nobody, with a stake in healthcare supports this bill. The insurance companies aren’t really behind it. The pharma companies aren’t really behind it. Providers – doctors, hospitals, etc. – aren’t behind it. Consumers – you and me – aren’t behind it.
This bill exists because a talking point, “Obamacare is a failure* and destroying America”, has come to life and exists on its own, whether or not the talking point has any merit.
* The first time the House voted to repeal Obamacare, they titled the bill “Repeal the Job Killing Healthcare Law Act”. They were so totally vested in the idea Obamacare would tank the economy. When that didn’t happen, in 2014, they just stuck to the generic Obamacare is a failure.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@gene108: And now they’re getting pushback and grief for it. Hope they get stomach ulcers from all this stress
schrodingers_cat
@Chet Murthy:
This is a joke right? Women police other women more than men do. Older women are the enforcers of patriarchy, watch one of those never ending saas-bahu* dramas on Indian TV (there is probably one in every language)
MIL-DIL
Shana
@schrodingers_cat: Good point. I saw a picture of SHS the other day when she was wearing a top that had a big blue checked pattern that was falling off at one shoulder because it was too big for her, and her body was distorting the lines of the checks. It looked horrible.
No Drought No More
“I’m not sure that even well-intentioned men understand how relentlessly degrading this presidency is for many women”.
You might be surprised about that. I for one will never understand how Trump garnered the vote of even a single woman, or cease wondering why it happened. In fact, the very bedrock of my delusion that Trump would never be elected was based on my confidence in the decency and intelligence of American women. So, tell me- why did they vote in the millions for the pig? How was it I so easily understood what they so obviously didn’t about the man? I think that’s a question a lot of other guys could fairly ask, too.
pluky
@Yarrow: Because even the finest cut clothes are in the end just drapery. If the body inside is not comfortable in its own skin then no outfit is going to work right. Tag line for a super model: Could wear a trash bag and look fabulous.
HeleninEire
@TenguPhule: Stop digging.
The Moar You Know
@No Drought No More: To flip the question: what is it that you (and the entire Democratic party) didn’t understand about these voters?
We/I assumed a lot of things before this election that turned out to be completely wrong.
Ladyraxterinok
A ‘theology’ of total female submission has totally taken over the Evangelical movement in the last 30 or so years. The SBC codified it in their Baptist Faith and Message stement adoptedi in 2000. This doctrine was cited by Jimmy Carter as the reason he decided to leave the SBC.
The theology is termed ‘complementarianism’ as opposed to ‘egalitarianism.’ The premises are promulgated by the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood with headquarters at one of the SBC seminaries. Some of the more disgusting statements of thi view come from John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Mark Driscol, and Doug Wilson (who’s written a book ‘proving’ slavery was good for blacks).
There has always been some of this in Evangelicalism, but it has gotten much more explicit, intense, amd extreme in the last decades. Many believe this is in reaction to the rise of feminism and the increasing recognition of the equality of women.
Many believe this partly accounts for the extreme hatred of gays and lesbians. In a same-sex relationship/marriage there is no clear distinction between ‘God ordained’ gender roles. Who is the ‘head’ and who is the ‘submissive followere and supporter?’
gene108
@Chet Murthy:
He was one of the driving forces behind the Moral Majority, as well as turning the right-wing in this country into a grifting operation, where alerts for America about to be destroyed by communists, homosexuals, etc. were targeted at specific households to raise money for countless grifters.
LAO
@HeleninEire: Hey — how does it feel to be internet famous?
Yarrow
@Shana: That’s part of it for sure. But her choices also seem off. Like today’s Handmaid’s Tale full red long sleeved, long skirt suit. It’s an odd choice for the middle of July. Better suited to winter. And the other day I saw her walking down the steps from the plane in a sleeveless dress with a swingy skirt. The top bit looked okay but the bottom half was too big and had an odd, distracting design on it, offset to the left (as you looked at her). It made the whole thing look bad on her. Those are less about fit and more about choices. Like I said above, if I were a designer I’d worry she made my clothes look bad.
StringOnAStick
The forces of hate unleashed by the election of tRump show up everywhere and in places I hadn’t thought about yet. I have a relative who works at the edge of the prison system in a fellow low population western state. She tells me that the white supremacist gangs in the prisons have been much more active since the election, and that there have been as many assaults against guards and fellow prisoners in the last 6 months as there had been in the last 20 years (I haven’t confirmed this but she is not prone to exaggeration). The state has been cheaping out on raises for years and there are prison employees who are on food stamps (gee, and they wonder why employees get caught smuggling for prisoners?). She says that in general the white supremacist gangs are back at the top of the violence game and are clearly ascendant in the prison pecking order, and is directly linked to the inauguration of this stupid asshole.
Marguerite Hill
Imagine, if you will, that you’re a 6-year old first grade African American boy — insatiably curious, avid book reader, collector & spouter of an extensive vocabulary — who desires to be an astronaut. On November 9, 2016, your white teacher gloats to the class, while pointedly looking at you and other children of color, “Y’all better watch out! Trump is gonna set thangs straight!”
That was literally spoken to my godson, and I heard other variations of that sentiment from other parents, grandparents, and guardians.
I consciously try to NOT hate, but I despise the white people who have allowed their HATE to put an ignorant, mentally deficient, intellectually incapacitated, misogynistic, racist, xenophobic nitwit in the White House. I abhor every white woman who voted for DT, knowing that he was unqualified but wanting a political expression of their hate & low self-esteem.
SMDH
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I hear you, and Michelle Goldberg.
And yet, in looking at the comments about the 2016 election made by women (or commenters who claim to be women), I note both the vehemence of those who fell insulted by Trump, but also the indifference of those who don’t care at all about his behavior or beliefs. And these women reject the idea that they have been socialized or brainwashed to accept male predatory behavior, or that they are ignorant or uninformed.
Also, among white women nationally, not much difference between 2012 and 2016. In 2012, 42 percent of white women voted for Obama; in 2016 43 percent of white women voted for Clinton. And white men fear or have abandoned the Democrats; 62 percent voted Republican in 2012 and 2016.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Marguerite Hill: That teacher should have gotten smacked around a little
ruemara
@satby: A lot of Asians, Latinos and Indians are finding that out as well.
@Marguerite Hill: They’re so fucking happy. I detest progressives trying to tell me to fucking pollyanna these mofos. I hope they hurt. Not that they die. I hope people they love suffer. I want them to hurt in their soul in ways that last. And then I want them to survive and live a long time. I want them to have as much pain that drugs, booze and medicine will not cure. Even then, it’s not enough for every POC who’s lived in America.
HeleninEire
@LAO: I am THRILLED. I will never be any other way famous, so internet famous is awesome.
WaterGirl
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Sadly, he does not regret his vote.
Major Major Major Major
@Marguerite Hill: I imagine that would make aspiring astronauts want to get off the planet even more!
Sad, sad story.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@WaterGirl: He probably will, along with the rest of us
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: The thing that gets me about this “She’s lying” or “She’s corrupt” is that Trump is demonstrably worse in every way. It’s not even hard to prove, it’s right out there in the open. It’s been catalogued repeatedly. Trump is the most dishonest, most corrupt president we’ve ever had, and he was like this during the campaign.
Anyone who uses this as an excuse to vote for Trump is using it as an excuse for other prejudices. No other possibility, unless they’re just that stupid. And you have to be monumentally stupid to ignore all that evidence.
LAO
@HeleninEire: I snorted when I saw that Cole told you to go pound sand in his next post. What an honor. Also, yeah I see you got the point of my comments — it’s hard to argue with someone intent on telling you, how you should feel.
bemused
@Betty Cracker:
He’s got much more important things to think about…himself and perhaps, Ivanka, Jared and Jr. Mainly himself.
bemused
@The Moar You Know:
I’m not impressed with Ivanka’s style either.
Karen
@Quinerly: the clothes always make her look short waisted and out of proportion, the clothes are often by known designers who usually produce well dressed people. I don’t know if it is her idea to add the belts that contrast or they really don’t like her and purposely make sure that she doesn’t look good; or it might be that dolt45 has input and he makes good suits look terrible
HeleninEire
@LAO: And thank you for pointing me to Cole’s tweet. I would have never seen it without your guidance.
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard: That was my first response to him – Let’s assume for a moment that Hillary really is a lying bitch, do you think she lies more than Donald Trump, who lies constantly? It makes no sense to me.
WaterGirl
@bemused: Trash is trash, no matter how much money you have.
The Moar You Know
@Marguerite Hill: Imagine, if you’re a public school teacher, on November 9, 2016 having all your kids show up to class in Trump hats looking pointedly at you and saying “you work for us and if you get out of line we’re going to make sure you’re fired.”
Because that happened. To my wife. And she left the school she’s been teaching in for twenty-one years because of it.
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: You’re not deep in the fundie movement, right? I was raised there. The anti-catholic biases are suborned in the political movement, but make no mistake. When the enemies (us) are crushed, killed or subjugated, they will be brought to the fore again.
Y’all, Melania’s no supermodel. She’s an advanced page 6 tit model. Literally nothing about her is high fashion. She has the terrible taste of the nouveau riche and the usual Cyrillic tendencies towards gilt. She has ZED, ZERO, 0, bupkiss fashion sense.
Major Major Major Major
@Karen: Among the family’s many cosmic curses is an inability to wear clothes that fit.
Betty Cracker
@John Weiss: I can’t tell if you’re talking about tomato plants or Mrs. Trump! :)
Brachiator
@Marguerite Hill:
If this were said to my kid, the teacher would be looking for another job. Or I might be looking for another school. Or both.
Karen
@Hungry Joe: did you fertilize? or what have temps been like, it has been cool enough here that I am not sure my tomatoes will blossom much less set fruit
Ladyraxterinok
@Ladyraxterinok: At about the same time in the SBC, there arose a strong authoritarian movement. People who question the preacher’s teachings, (his, of course) actions,etc, or who want to know the preacher’s salary are disciplined.
More and more churches have a covenant you must sign if you wish to join. The covenant is a legal document, although this fact is often not explained. The signer agrees that s/he will submit to being disciplined by the leaders if they deem it necessary, although few covenants explicitly stae what actions call for discipline.
bemused
@WaterGirl:
Ha, and Bill Maher said about Trump on a recent show, “You can never get too rich to be white trash”. Goes for the whole family.
Barbara
In the Alpha Male World that lives inside Trump’s head no women except for maybe Ivanka Trump and her daughters count as people, but are really just objects to be acquired, owned or disposed of. By sizing up and evaluating Brigitte Macron Trump asserted partial ownership and thereby “emasculated” the French president. I am still numb and maybe even in a state of denial at the level of misogyny that is alive and well in our country right now.
Barbara
@Brachiator: I would out this person. That is one of the most outrageous things I have read in a long time. It isn’t just racist, because the differential in age, the fiduciary relationship between the teacher and student makes it way more than a microaggression. It was a threat aimed at a little boy. How could a parent trust that this teacher would treat African American students fairly?
Betty Cracker
@HeleninEire: I missed your internet fame. Fill me in?
rikyrah
@Marguerite Hill:
I feel you.
LAO
@Betty Cracker: Cole dragged HeleninEire on both twitter and in a post. Hey, we take what we can get.
bemused
I was shocked that Trump yanked Brigitte Macron around like she was some man he was trying one up. She’s so petite, he could have yanked her off her feet. He’s probably done that to many women but I’ve just never see it on video. I really wish she had kneed him hard.
Americablog has up a good compilation of Trump doing that to Pence, Christie, etc but he kept SC Justice Gorsuch tugging back and forth several times. Trump is a total whack job to top all whack jobs.
I want all of this to stop.
rikyrah
@SiubhanDuinne:
Sending prayers towards President Carter.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: My mom was a free spirit, so I escaped a lot of that bullshit, but I was partially raised by fundamentalists. My mom’s father was a Southern Baptist preacher, and I was dragged to church on the regular. Seems like the anti-Catholicism was much more prevalent when I was a kid than it is now, but your point about old enemies being brought to the fore again makes perfect sense.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: Does your BIL have a daughter? Does he call your sister a lying bitch? I think it helps to point out that calling people “lying bitches” generally means they are just fine with their moms, wives and daughters being called the same.
Betty Cracker
@LAO: Oh, I did see where he told her to go pound sand. LOL!
Brachiator
@Ladyraxterinok:
I cannot imagine that nonsense like this is legally enforceable.
But I guess that the church would refuse to let you join if you balked at any of their stupid rules.
ETA: I would be curious as to what they cite as a biblical justification for a written contract, etc.
Major Major Major Major
@LAO: One time Andrew Sullivan headlined a post with me tweeting at him mockingly. I felt very accomplished.
Ladyraxterinok
@Ladyraxterinok: Many in the US are aware of the doctrine of the Trinity, the teaching there is one God in 3 equal persons–Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Recently Evangelical leaders have begun teaching the claim of the Eternal Subordination of the Son (ESS). This states that the Son was not only subordinate to His Father while while on earth as Jesus. It claims that the Son was subordinate before the foundation of the universe and also for all eternity after ascending back into heaven.
Therefore since the Son has always been happily subodinate, why should women complain?!?
Immanentize
@Brachiator: If that was said to my son, I might have to be looking for a good defense attorney….
LAO
@Major Major Major Major: As well you should have.
LAO
@Immanentize: It’s a good thing you know one or two.
Immanentize
@Ladyraxterinok:
It’s a pretty worthless document as a “legal” document if it does not outline the offenses or the possible punishments. In other words, it’s fake law.
Jeffro
Once more, might I suggest a pretty good read: Trump’s Russian Laundromat which just dropped today.
Here’s a funny graf:
Lovely.
Immanentize
@LAO: from time to time, I think — hell, I know some excellent attorneys, I could totally get away with…. Then my childhood conditioning kicks in and I try to behave.
I tell my students that they are the deter-able. It takes a special kind of person not to be.
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: How is Mrs I? I remember that you were waiting for some scan results.
rikyrah
@MisterForkbeard:
Karma is wicked and vengeful. She wants us never ever to forget the lesson of Dolt45
Karen
I worked both as a bespoke dressmaker and for a bespoke tailor; so it always bothers me when people who are in the public eye as much as the dolt family look like “poor white trash.” I can’t imagine how some of the known designers feel about the way the dolt family women make their clothing look like trash, someone should be making sure that flotus looks better than high priced arm candy or hooker.
Jeffro
More here:
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
NO.PHUCKING.WAY.
UNBELIEVABLE.
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
I want Dolt45 to go down in the dustbin of history as THE worst President that we’ve ever had.
And, I will, without hesitation, rub it in the face of anyone that I remotely think voted for him.
Iowa Old Lady
It is so painful to watch this guy try to swagger around as if were one of the grown ups.
I miss Obama so bad.
LAO
@Immanentize:
I was going to make a joke about how, thank goodness not everyone is deter-able, cause then I’d be out of a job. But then I remembered all the grief I got defending Trump, Jr.’s right to be represented by counsel.
Karen
This area voted almost overwhelming for dolt and dense, I have commented that even if I didn’t have two brain cells to rub together I wouldn’t have voted for a man who stalked a woman around the stage on national tv. I was amazed at how many women didn’t see that as stalking or weren’t bothered by the rape charges of 13 year old girl.
Women are the worst at telling other women how to dress and behave; over the years the worst comments I have received, the most humiliating have been from other women
Immanentize
@schrodingers_cat: First, welcome to the nuthouse and CONGRATS! on your citizenship (I did get that right, right?)
Second, not great — bad scan, smart cancer, new regimen (Taxol and a new targeted cancer starver, Cyramza). However — per your suggestions, B6 for neuropathy! In that regard she is doing OK so far. We are going to see another Doc (a genetic oncologist) at Dana Farber next week to see if there are any trials available. We are so fortunate to live in the Boston area.
Onward!
Ladyraxterinok
@Ladyraxterinok: With the emphasis on female submission and the ‘no questioning permitted’ authoritarianism in Evangelicanism, a growing number of women are being trained to accept second-class status.
The teaching of unquestioning acceptance of authority helps create the Evangelical Trump voter and supporter.
Bob Felton in his blog points out how many church-goers continue to support their preachers no matter what, even after conviction.
The authoritarianism also trains Evangelicals to look for a supremely self-confident authority figure. Once they have found him, their support will never waver.
HeleninEire
@Betty Cracker: @LAO: @Betty Cracker: And he put me on Twitter, too. Getting ready for my closeup!
Tenar Arha
We were discussing NPR in an earlier thread today. And I was mentioned about how my frustrations with their news coverage led to me just listening to their podcasts. I sincerely couldn’t listen anymore without immediately going into media crit mode & yelling at the radio, so I switched to selecting from their wide variety of podcasts.
I was unaware there was a possible SAG-AFTRA strike coming up because NPR’s hardball contract negotiations are breaking down. Anyway this sounds really bad. Like trying to really shaft the employees for management’s mistakes bad.
Which leads to what I think may be a fundamental question for a distributed modern economy: How do you support employees without paying off management for their tactics?
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: Way.
I might add that everyone involved, wife and students, were female and white.
People talk about how the millenials are so much more liberal than their elders. This is true for the older ones. The ones in high school right now are going to give Gen X’s now middle-aged Reagan Youth a run for their money as far as which of the two generations goes down in history as the worst shitheads.
Barney
The Amazon best-selling book on Kindle for all of 2017 so far, in all categories, is The Handmaid’s Tale. 1984 is at number 12.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2017/digital-text/154606011
The only other classic novel to break the top 20 in any year from 2010 onwards was The Great Gatsby at #12 in 2013, Obviously the TV tie in helps, but this has resonated with Americans in 2017 far beyond just that.
Immanentize
@LAO: I couldn’t help you out that day (I had other chores to do for my lazy lovable son) — but I TOTALLY agree. I was in Miami as a PD in the 80’s and guess who couldn’t get lawyers because they were “morally corrupt.” #AIDScrisis Or mothers who attorneys turned away because they were drug involved #CRACKepidemic. The moral representation game most always leaves the least powerful on the short end of the judgments — not the Trumps of the world. Michael Tigar and Monroe Friedman (dead you know) — who were very close friends — had a great back and forth on this topic for years. Monroe was on the side of exercising moral judgment regarding clients and Michael was on what I will refer to as our side. It was a great give and take. At one point, over dinner, we had an even more interesting discussion which was about whether. if you were an attorney in Vichey France, would, could. should you defend a person from Nazi deportation to the concentration camps on the grounds that they were not really Jewish enough under the deportation laws. Monroe was a no, Michael a yes.
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: Thanks and good luck to both you and Mrs I, here’s hoping for better outcomes!
Immanentize
@The Moar You Know: What did the school do about it? Very disturbing.
gene108
@Barbara:
He’s said openly, if Ivanka wasn’t his daughter, he’d totally do her. Fuck, on national T.V., with the whole world watching, as he walked on stage to give his acceptance speech, he stopped and groped her.
Ivanka’s just as much of an object to him as any other woman.
Bill
Sexual predators prey. Trump’s disgusting, and in a just world would be figuring out how he’s going to find work when every employer keeps finding his name in the sex offender registry.
satby
@Hungry Joe: pinch back new growth so that it starts setting fruit.
Karen
@Ladyraxterinok: it is that way in any fundamental patriarchal religion, it has gotten worse instead of better; I had one man tell me that a woman has no right to question anything a man says. What bothered me more was the overwhelming shift to rape is a form on conception; that along with so many ministers are once again telling women, wives, daughters that when the “man of house rapes” it is his due as head of household. As a teen was exposed to fundamentalist cult so I still hear from women I grew up with
Ladyraxterinok
@Chet Murthy: Slacktivist at patheos has had several posts documenting the pro-abortion stand of Christianity Today and the SBC in the late 70s, post Roe v Wade. Then the professional right wingers looked for something to unite the right, and they decided on anti-abortion.
Frank Schaeffer has written extensively about how his father created what is now called the religious right around opposition to abortion.
Patricia Kayden
@Hunter Gathers: “The Blacks.” “The Mexicans.” “The Gays.” “The Feminists.” “The Muslims.” So many people to hate and so many reasons to vote for a man who hates them as well.
Tenar Arha
@No Drought No More: Bottom line: patriarchal racism usually trumps sisterhood from slavery through to the present day. The cult of white womanhood even mucks up the egalitarianism of feminism.
Ironically, I now know this deeply from personal experience. Turns out that not all apparently liberated white women friends in a very blue state can be considered “safe” to discuss politics with, without discovering they voted for that slimey creep “because he’s right. And anyway I don’t talk politics.” (I haven’t spoken to her since).
hellslittlestangel
Funny in a thread about misogyny how many comments there are trashing women for the way they look.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders is an asshole, but it has nothing to do with how she dresses.
The Moar You Know
@Immanentize: What they did about the kids who ran around shoving Hispanic kids out of line and telling them “this is how it is now”, the kids who showed up at all the football games with a giant “Trump/Pence” flag and led “Build the Wall” chants at teams with brown and black kids, the kids who, on a daily basis, threaten to call INS on other kids who they know are immigrants or refugees…nothing. Right now, the district is on a knife edge…do the conservatives take over the board next election or do we maintain the sane, 1 seat majority? The GOP has been sending the conservative board members and any candidates willing to run as cons quite a bit of money. The Dems have done nothing, as usual.
Parents group has already hired a legal team and threatened the district with a lawsuit if their kids are disciplined for “exercising their First Amendment privileges”.
My wife transferred to another school in the district. She holds a dual credential, so she’ll be teaching English, not the subject she’s been teaching for 20+ years. Her classes were turned over to an unpaid, uncredentialed student coach who will be working under an art teacher (not the subject being taught) to keep everything barely legal.
The district is truly schizoid. The kids at my wife’s school threw a huge party for the “election victory”. Two of the other high schools in the district had 100% student walkouts/shutdowns in protest. I’m just glad my wife is now in a place where students won’t be very likely to directly threaten her.
Ladyraxterinok
@gene108: Look up Billy James Hargis, a very important evangelist in the 50s and 60s. His headquarters were in Tulsa, OK.
I grew up hearing about him. But when I looked him up recently on the internet, I discovered he pioneered much of what we now associate with the Right and the
Religios Right, direct mailings stirring up fear to get donations, etc.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Shana: She is also a little too fashionable in the clothes she selects for public appearances–contrast her Inauguration suit with what Mrs. Obama and Dr. Biden were wearing. In Manhattan that might not have been so obvious, but Official Wives tend not to dress so much at the cutting edge–shoe heels are a little lower, the cut is not so tight, and the look in general is a little more toned-down–as my mother puts it–the goal is to wear your clothes, so that they aren’t the first thing people notice about you, and Melania Trump’s clothes wear her a little too much compared to women like Mme. Macron and other Official Wives.
Brachiator
@Barney:
The Handmaid’s Tale just got 13 Emmy nominations, including a nomination for Outstanding Drama Series.
Jeffro
Good to see that Fox News is going 24/7 blaming…yup…Loretta Lynch for “letting in” the Russian lawyer lady that Don Jr. was trying to collude with.
Somehow it will be Al Gore’s fault that Russian mobsters laundered money through Trumpov’s condos, Elizabeth Warren’s fault for all the precinct co-targeting that Russia and Cambridge Analytica did, and Valerie Jarrett’s fault for everything else.
Ladyraxterinok
@Chet Murthy: IIRC, it was this attitude of the guys in the anti-war movement that the females were there for sex and kitchen and office chores that led women in the movement to break out and start the Women’s Liberation Movement.
SenyorDave
Amoral pig. During the campaign it was hard to catalogue all of Trump’s faults, and on a blog I read regularly one of the posters referred to him as an amoral pig. Its a pretty decent quickie catchall that you can then qualify. Racist, amoral pig. Corrupt, amoral pig, etc. To list his defining characteristics requires at least a half dozen adjectives, all negative (seriously, is there a positive adjective one would use to decribe anything about Trump?).
Kenneth Kohl
jesus, what an asshole…
schrodingers_cat
@hellslittlestangel: How SHS is dressed is relevant to her job as her spokesperson, as are T and his taped ties, tent sized ill fitting clothes and taped over long ties make the wearer look less than professional. It has nothing to do with misogyny. YMMV.
Karen
@hellslittlestangel: When you have made clothing for a living it makes you more aware of how much women are dressing to please men rather than wearing something that makes them look good and feel good about themselves. There was a reason why many of the “robber barons” hired people to teach them how to dress, what silverware to use; flotus is the public face of US women.
Van Buren
@Hungry Joe: I’m told this can happen if you over fertilize
matryoshka
@Ladyraxterinok: I read that: Crazy for God. It was a very good read and shows how long the radical right has been working on the project of gutting the democratic and pluralistic institutions of this country.
The Fat Kate Middletion
@Immanentize: “Onward!’ There’s really not much else to be said (or to do), is there? It’s something I say to myself every day – followed by reminders of how very, very lucky I’ve been, and how grateful I am for the life I’ve led. Regarding neuropathy – I’ve found that B12 also works wonders. I’m able to sleep through the night with it.
Mike in NC
Caught a little bit of Trump in Paris earlier today. There he was in the navy blue suit, white shirt that looked like all the buttons were about to pop off, and of course a medium solid blue necktie that hung about 5 inches below the waist. It was much too early in the day to start drinking…
Ladyraxterinok
@Brachiator: The blog thewartburgwatch.com has many posts about the covenants. One of the 2 women running the blog and many of the commenters are former members of the SBC or other Evangelical groups. They discuss what has happened in their former churches or churches in their area.
IIRC non of the covenants has actually been tested inl court. You have to sign if you want to join the church. As I understand it, if they decide ti discipline you or you wish to leave the church and they do not want to let you leave for some reason, they bring up ‘legal’ talk.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: He has two grown daughters and he would never refer to my sister or his daughters that way, and he has never used those words about anyone else, ever, and I have known him since I was 13. He was there for my first kiss and everything else in my life. The whole thing boggles my mind.
Hillary Derangement Syndrome is a real thing.
glory b
@Chet Murthy: A while back I read a(n excellent) multipart article about the alliance betw. Catholics & Evangelicals. The Rs wanted to construct a sufficiently-large voting bloc; evangelicals were onboard, but weren’t populous enough. Evangelicals were (back then) mostly indifferent to abortion. But Catholics were even then anti-abortion. So getting Evangelicals to adopt anti-abortion positions was critical to getting the Catholics to sign up for the Moral Majority and all that stuff. ISTR the name Viguerie coming up, but that might be mere loose association.
I grew up in Pittsburgh, my brothers went to Catholic schools, but I really don’t remember much about them going in on about abortion.
It was in Pittsburgh, and the “Labor Priest” thing was big. Most of the time you saw them outside of religious settings, it was fighting for workers.
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: I went to a Catholic school too, I never heard a word about abortion. The sisters were anti war though, remember a lot of talk about that.
Brachiator
@Ladyraxterinok:
i’m not a lawyer, but let me play one on Balloon Juice for a minute. I think there is a technical legal term that applies to this: sounds like some unenforceable bullshit to me.
But I can understand all the sacred “covenant” lingo and the attempt to bind folks to this church’s way of thinking. It’s amazing to me that people would willingly go along with this.
glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yep, sisters seemed to be more left than the priests.
glory b
@hellslittlestangel: I think you’ve wandered over to the mean girl’s table.
Seriously, these are women (Melania and SHS) whose appearance is part of what they do.
glory b
@Karen: Really? I sew and do okay, but not at that level. My father taught tailoring and taught us to sew, he wanted to be a designer but that wasn’t a practical dream for black kids of that era.
I’d love to have a job like that, but I don’t think my skill level is that high.
hellslittlestangel
@glory b: Thanks for pointing out the speck in my eye.
Sab
@Yarrow: My guess is that Trump has a big say in how the women around him dress, and he has bad taste.
Ladyraxterinok
@Brachiator: @Brachiator: As I under stand what often happens, you have been in the chuch since childhood. Then later you join another church–same denomination, different town or maybe same town. New preacher is hired; he has all sorts of new, modern ideas. Maybe elders no longer elected by congregation but appointed by preacher. A series of small steps over a period of time. Each one seems no big deal, you grew up trusting what the preacher and the SS teacher told you. Never a problem for you until something happens that makes you realize how different your present church is from the one in which you grew up.
Blogs like thewartburgwatch.com are sounding the alarm, posting lists of red flags to watch out for when considering a new church.
Judging from comments at that blog, things like covenants are pretty new in tbe SBC.
hellslittlestangel
@schrodingers_cat: Okay, imagine someone making fun of the way Al Sharpton talks in a thread about racism.
Bill Arnold
Re the OP,
No. If Trump leaves office, Mike “Handmaid’s Tale” Pence becomes POTUS. (If he is not part of a multi-person-office leaving package.) But Pence does seem to be compromised at least a bit by the Russian connections. (There are the public weirdnesses (by normal American standards) related to women, and perhaps ;-) the private kinks, but they are not obviously disqualifying.)
I think he could grow on the job but he would need constant reminders that his theocratic tendencies are not Constitutionally-allowed and that Republican dogma is akin to religious dogma.
schrodingers_cat
@hellslittlestangel: Talking != way you dress, which is relevant when you are a spokesperson.
debbie
@Quinerly:
When Trump pulled the name Loretta Lynch out of his asshole to use as a blame shield, I decided he needed to be removed from office, even if by force.
hellslittlestangel
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, I give up. It’s like you’re trying to be ridiculous.
debbie
@SatanicPanic:
You’re right. If Trump is removed or impeached, or even if he makes it to the next election and loses, his base will attack the Dems no less than the Dems have attacked the GOP. I had the thought a couple days ago that I will never live to see a country not torn apart.
schrodingers_cat
@hellslittlestangel: Because I disagreed with you, alright then.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
The grammar police will now cite you for using a double negative.
Betty Cracker
@hellslittlestangel: FWIW, it bugs me too. Not claiming I’ve been morally consistent on this point, but yeah, there’s a double standard.
debbie
@TenguPhule:
Screw ’em. It’s right the way I wrote it.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
i don’t know. We make fun of Trump’s attire. We used to make fun of Paul Wolfewitz who wore socks with holes in them. Obama’s mom jeans. On and on. It’s both sides.
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: They want to kill us but we can’t even point to their weird outfit choices and tie tapings. Or Ivanka’s garden party dress in the meeting Angela Merkel and Christine LaGarde. Whatever.
ETA: BTW Obama totally rocked his leather jacket look.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Don’t forget how much lady conservatives wearing sleeveless dresses berated Michelle for wearing sleeveless dresses. Sorry, Michelle, forget the going high. What goes around, comes around.
Karen
@glory b: I did “apprenticeship” with dressmaker in early teens, but then I started sewing when was about 7. I still remember my first outfit; crop top and shorts. Used newspaper to make pattern, old sheet to test pattern and then cut into “good” material. I was fortunate to have grandmothers who were good patient teachers; and since I was terrible typist my first job was sewing.
Jilli Brown
Sweet jeebus, was he raised by wolves?
Marguerite
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: That teacher grew mighty quiet during the waning days of the school term. The reThuglican columnist in the local weekly newspaper has dropped politics since May and now devotes his scribblings to area food festivals, summer trips, and his homegrown tomatoes.
Marguerite
@ruemara: Some were delirious after 11/8/2016, but not so much since 1/20/2017. Out went competence, in came ineptitude.Erudition was replaced with ignorance. It’s so obvious, they have stopped publicizing local meetings of the reThuglican party.
Marguerite
@The Moar You Know: So glad she left that bullying, hostile environment. DT really has made hate and the public expression of hate normal & acceptable. His followers religiously mimic his vile crudeness. It’s sickening. No educator should be exposed to such ugliness nor be the purveyor of such putridness.