I just can’t figure out what is out there that makes releasing this tweet a good idea. Read about 3/4ths of the way down:
Update 1: A respected NatSec attorney’s reaction:
I literally do not understand what the hell @DonaldJTrumpJr is doing right now. This is simply too stupid to fathom.
— Bradley P. Moss, Esq (@BradMossEsq) July 11, 2017
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are they gonna hang their hat on the “Crown prosecutor” as the “Check the kerning!” thing? I mean, Fredo put on a hat that said “I wanna collude with you, Comrade!” and waited for her in the lobby of trump tower
Shinobi
Like… do they just not understand what colluding means? Do they not understand the concept of like… foreign states? You can’t actually work with another government when you’re trying to get elected to this one. Seriously, maybe they just don’t get that.
Betty Cracker
How is the not a smoking gun?
BGinCHI
The Trump family is a combo of mob tactics and rich real estate development entitlement.
This makes them believe they can do whatever they want. If things go pear-shaped, all they have to do is call legal and it gets taken care of.
But now a different set of rules applies. They can’t hide and they can’t scare the prosecutors away. If we are lucky, they will go down and offer a cautionary tale: don’t allow the stupidest people in the country to elect a President.
Yarrow
He does have a lawyer, right?
Hill Dweller
Fredo tweeted that out just before NYT released the emails. He’s feigning transparency.
BGinCHI
@Betty Cracker: It may just be one small pistol in a cabinet of armaments.
FlipYrWhig
All I can think of is that they’ll try to say that they were offered incriminating info and they did pursue it at first but then when it was a pretext/hoax/whatever they righteously refused to go any further with it. So it wasn’t actual collusion just attempted collusion. Right? That would make some sense. I don’t think it’s convincing but it might be their logic.
Jerzy Russian
WTF indeed. What is this tweet supposed to accomplish? This is sort of like the argument that goes “they said 17 agencies accused me of wrongdoing, but it turns out that only 4 did, therefore I am innocent.” One cannot even begin to unwrap that given that it is so wrong.
different-church-lady
MUELLER: “We’re gonna need a bigger boat.”
Shinobi
@FlipYrWhig: I think this might still fall under the “conspiracy to commit” version of treason. It doesn’t matter if they actually agreed to it or did it, but they went to a meeting intentionally to obtain information from a foreign government to impact a national election. Whether they actually did anything would just be gravy.
LAO
@Betty Cracker: This is just the beginning. And it also helps answer the question, just how fucking stupid are these people?
BGinCHI
@FlipYrWhig: I’ll remember this when I rob the bank and it doesn’t have the millions I was hoping for.
Me: “I only got 6 figures! Totally innocent here!”
Robin G.
@Yarrow: I assume his lawyer has committed sepukku. That’s the only reason Don Jr’s phone isn’t in a toilet somewhere.
different-church-lady
@Hill Dweller: Squid ink.
BGinCHI
Maybe this is how they’ll finally fill Guantanamo.
Robin G.
@different-church-lady: I just snorted coffee out my nose. Thanks.
LAO
@Shinobi: Or it might qualify as “attempted” treason.
FlipYrWhig
@Shinobi: IANAL but that seems totally reasonable to me. I’m just trying to figure out how they could possibly be thinking it reflects well on them in any way. And all I’ve got for that is that they’ll retcon the story to focus on how they walked out of the meeting feeling cheated, um, I mean, feeling disgusted? :/
JPL
@Hill Dweller: Yup the NYTimes notified him first.
How did the NYTimes get the emails?
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They’re going to have a hard time denying the authenticity of a document they released themselves. I’m wondering about the “part of Russia and its government’s support of Mr. Trump”. That suggests they were already expecting/receiving Russian government support, which is obviously illegal.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
I said it once, I’ll say it again. Blanket pardon after indictments. Problem solved, Congress has his back. NO ONE will spend a day in jail. What do you propose we do if this happens?
WaterGirl
@BGinCHI: Made me laugh!
FlipYrWhig
@BGinCHI: “OK, I went to the bank with a gun and brandished it and the teller gave me a bag, but then the dye pack went off and I couldn’t use the money, so it’s kinda like nothing really happened, robbery-wise.”
chopper
thank fucking god these guys are so incompetent.
LAO
@JPL: Not sure it matters — Jr. tweeted out the entire chain. LMAO
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady:
You have been consistently winning threads.
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: “Support” is a slippery word, though, sometimes meaning nothing more than “having good feeling for.”
LAO
mouse tolliver
I feel like we’re living in a Coen Brothers movie watching these clowns. It’s like a sequel to the one with Clooney, Brad Pitt and Tilda Swinton.
Edit: Burn After Reading
Raoul
@Yarrow: He does have a lawyer, right?
Have and use are of course two different statuses.
ET
He is obviously not listening to a lawyer who would tell him to SHUT THE FUCK UP. Seriously.
Chet Murthy
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: If it comes to that, we get to find out if we live in a democracy, then. We get to find out what our allies are worth. We get to measure the value of a lot of things.
I think there might be a “Maidan” type event in DC. For sure, I’d start calling my state leges to start secession legislation, and damn the Constitution, b/c clearly the USG has already done same. But this is precisely why I doubt it’ll get that far. B/c there are still enough “sane billionaires” out there, who would put their thumbs on the scale to end this farce.
LAO
@Yarrow: @Raoul: He does have a lawyer — that I personally know — and he’s a great defense attorney. I imagine he’s not happy at the moment.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I was wondering what the hell could have led him to put this out for the world to see. I can’t understand why they didn’t just dig their heels in and fight for the next 40 years to keep those e-mails from coming to light. What are they doing? Have they just given up?
daveNYC
They’re in the middle of being caught out, and they have none of the instincts or experiences that normal people do for these situations, and so are flailing horrible. Or hilariously, whichever.
The only way this could be part of an actual plan is if they are going to try for a diminished capacity defense.
Sirkowski
– Your honor, here’s the knife I used in my failed murder attempt.
– Sir, you should get a lawyer.
JPL
@LAO:Was the lawyer expecting the meeting to have been about adoption?
LAO
This about sums it up:
Raoul
@FlipYrWhig: If you get an email offering a crack at joining a protection ring, write back to say, sure’ let’s discuss! and then find out the shakedowns aren’t going to be worth it, is one still committing a RICO crime?
Conspiracy to commit racketeering may not be as bad as actually donning the brass knuckles and visiting the local businesses. But it’s still planning to commit a crime … with a f**ing paper trail!
Morans. All of ’em!
BGinCHI
@FlipYrWhig: You have to imagine Dave Chappelle doing it as a white guy.
prostratedragon
@Yarrow: Hired just yesterday as I recall.
Te-hee.
Mezz
The best part is that Fredo thinks this is “Helping”!!!
I’d ask “Has there ever been a powerful family filled with more nit-wits, half-wits, twits and zip-wits in the history of humankind???” but then I remember that I’m a historian, so I’m pretty sure the answer is “Yes.”
But that’s some impressive shit just the same – only six months in power and they’re already displaying historically competitive levels of incompetence, buffoonery and criminality. WINNING!!
dmsilev
Tim Kaine:
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
And in this case it means “provide incriminating documents about our opponents”, which is substantially more than just good feelings.
MCA1
The Times was going to publish them, so it’s really not as stupid to put them out himself as we’re making it out to be. The only possible way to stay ahead of, or at least even with, the narrative was to do this. He now has open the claim (ridiculously bogus though it is, it’ll do for the base) that he’s being transparent. He also probably assumed the NYT would publish what they thought was the most incriminating sounding parts, and nothing that he could point to as sounding exculpatory, so by tweeting it all out himself, he left open the possibility of a “Fake News” attack angle. And he can do his best to spin this as “this music guy with the annoying untalented son of some oligarch we hardly knew as a client just kept badgering me about this b.s. so I was taking this meeting to get him to go away” and go from there with his counternarrative, which he wouldn’t be able to do if he didn’t take the bull by the horns.
That’s all small potatoes, obviously. “I love it” will sink him. And Daddy’s been really quiet about all this today, which can’t be a good sign for Uday. But he had no choice, really, but to release the e-mails himself, once he knew they were about to be published in the newspaper of record.
BGinCHI
@mouse tolliver: Self-Own After Not Reading
LAO
@JPL: Jr., hired Alan Futerfas to represent him today in the Russian investigation. Alan is a terrific attorney and I can’t imagine he’s very happy today. (But then again, if it weren’t for morons, none of us defense attorneys would have work. lolololo).
manyakitty
@LAO: Hope he got paid up front. And A LOT.
dmsilev
@Mezz:
The Borgias come to mind. Also the Hapsburgs once the inbreeding really started to kick in. I’m sure there are others.
smintheus
I think they knew that the NYT was about to publish the emails.
Maybe Don jr. thought it’d be clever to appear to be coming clean, when he was just reacting once again to what had been exposed.
ETA: As MCA1 says above.
Raoul
@JPL: How did the NYTimes get the emails?
Kushner, from what I’ve seen on the twitt-box (so that may be dead wrong, of course). I’m not sure he does anything but buy time for himself by trashing junior first.
Or, the end-game may be that by sacrificing blood kin first, Kushner manipulates Don Sr. to issue blanket pardons to all of them. Which would precipitate a (further?) constitutional crisis that — once again! — the GOP would fail to respond to. (aka what Tilda Swintons Bald Cap said.)
It’s all turning into a sharknado.
GregB
Well this takes the ‘false information to disctedit the media’ regarding these emails off of the table.
Don Jr. confirmed.
PPCLI
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: A lot of the things, like the money laundering, are also against New York state law. The president can’t pardon State offenses, only federal ones. No doubt the clever lawyers on the government side in New York and in the FBI are well aware of the possibility of pardons and are crafting their strategies accordingly with this is one of the contingency plans. Something to bear in mind is (as I understand it – experts please correct me if I’m wrong) that virtually every major international currency transaction ends up routed through New York at some point, which gives New York state prosecutors jurisdiction too.
Barbara
Well, the NYT reports that Junior forwarded the entire email thread to Kushner and Manafort when he had to reschedule the meeting. It could be that he is not willing to be the only guy ending up under a bus.
Keith P.
LOL at Ken Cuccinelli trying to discount the notion of this being treason, since Trump wasn’t in office yet. They’ve really wedded themselves to the notion that non-politicians get infinite mulligans wrt breaking the law (breakin’ the law, breakin’ the law!). This along them with going after “fishing expedition” investigations is just too rich.
LAO
@manyakitty: I’m quite certain he did.
zzyzx
I feel like he’s playing negative dimension chess.
Now if only I thought the Republicans would care about this.
prostratedragon
Maybe it’s a lame attempt to direct attention away from matters of longer standing. ‘It only began with Don, last year, see?’
Doesn’t help much, does it?
zhena gogolia
How am I supposed to get any work done today, huh? Would you tell me that?
misterpuff
Remember during the convention, the media was “oohing and ahhing” that DT Jr was going to follow his father into politics with the Albany on the horizon.
Now they are making reservations at Danbury.
Drunkenhausfrau
“This iPhone speaks many languages.” Wtf?! There should be a little Boris and Natasha emoji next to that repeated line!
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: Both arms shot up in the air when I read your quote. Thank you, Tim Kaine!
FlipYrWhig
@Roger Moore: Right, I just meant that if the documents were part of the Russian government’s already-existing support, it’s still _possible_ they could have been the first occasion where support was to morph from “good feeling” to “tangible assistance.” I understood you to be arguing that the blasé mention of Russian government support was tantamount to an admission that the Russian government was providing tangible support beforehand. It probably was, I suspect, but the sheer mention of support doesn’t quite clinch it (yet?).
LAO
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: Glad I’m not alone with that feeling.
manyakitty
@LAO: Glad to hear it. I suspect the stench will take longer to wash off than he thinks, even considering his other clients.
Credenzal Clearwater Revival
It. Just. Doesn’t. Make. Sense.
Chewbacca Defense ISREAL!
VOR
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: IANAL, but as their lawyers surely know, being pardoned for something means you no longer have to worry about incriminating yourself. Fifth Amendment no longer applies. You would have to talk.
Just One More Canuck
@LAO: Your lawyer friend/acquaintance may have this going through his mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waf46eBajkw
LAO
@manyakitty:
Just a note: All successful defense attorneys in NYC have represented mobsters and other unsavory folks. We aren’t our clients.
sherparick
@Betty Cracker: Its actually a smoking 8 inch howitzer.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Does anybody remember the 1985 World Series? I do. The Cardinals were on the edge of winning the whole thing in the 9th inning of game 6, and all of a sudden a call went against them. Jorge Orta, a Royal, beat out a hit. It looked like he was out, but the umpire called him safe. And from then on, it was like the Cardinals just fell apart. They lost that game 2-1 and the series was tied. They let the one bad call rattle them and they got so pissed about it they forgot how to play baseball. It’s funny, because Orta, the guy who had the bad call go his way, never even scored. The bad call had nothing to do with the outcome of the game.
Trust me, I’m going somewhere with this.
Anyway, in game 7, the Cardinals showed up, but in name only. They let that one call screw with their heads so badly that they lost the seventh game 11-0. I remember watching that game. It was truly amazing watching these guys, professional baseball players, just devolve into Little League players. And there was one point, maybe halfway through the game, when somebody safely hit a ball to the outfield with runners on base, one of the Royals, and instead of throwing the ball back to the infield to keep the runners from going to the next base, whichever outfielder got the ball just stood there, watching. He didn’t do anything. It was like they just gave up. I mean, that hit made the score 8-0 or 9-0 at that point, so I can see why they might feel that way.
But anyway, this is what popped into my head after I read that e-mail Czarevich Manbaby put out. It’s like they’re just saying, “O.K., O.K., you got us. We did it. Here it is. Here’s everything you need. Just take it all and do whatever you need to do. We give up.” I know that’s unlikely to be why they did this, but that’s the thought, such as it is, that came to me.
wasdeaconblues
Maybe Junior, by posting all the way to the end, is emphasizing the standard “this e-mail, and attachments to it, are intended for the recipients only, and may contain privileged and confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited…” clause.
Isn’t everyone aware of this internet tradition?
Laughable.
LAO
@Just One More Canuck: That made me, legit, LOL.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
1. Set up by the Clinton campaign to ensnare Jr
2. No proof Russia hacked anything. Putin denies it.
3. Democrats are sore losers smearing Trump
Bruce K
@PPCLI: I will bet cash money that Mueller (why do people here call him Three Sticks, anyway?) has Scheiderman’s phone on speed-dial, and that his investigators are keeping an eye out for New York violations. If they can’t send the cartel to Leavenworth, they’re going to do their damnedest to send the cartel to Sing Sing.
sherparick
@Keith P.: Pushing the IOKIYR meme to the outer limits. Really, Trump was literally right. He could go down 5th Avenue and shoot random people and the Republicans would say they all had it coming and “but her emails” and “Benghazi.” Really, it comes down to “Making America White Again.” Treason for that cause has always been supported.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
Because rich White people did it?
MattF
@LAO: I suppose ‘Don Jr. hires a lawyer’ isn’t news. What we’re learning is how rich guys treat the help.
Yarrow
@LAO: @Raoul:
Yeah, he’s clearly not listening to his lawyer. He’s definitely Trump’s spawn. Do whatever the hell he wants, then wave his hand at his legal counsel and say, “Fix this.” Won’t work this time, but Jr. doesn’t know that. He just knows how he’s always done things….just like dad does.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
One that has represented 4 out of the 5 mob families.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
How is this for tin foil hat time; Trump wasn’t playing along with Putin at G20 so the Russians are outing Junior as a warning to Trump (and others). They say blackmail is the tradition Russian intelligence game.
maryQ
@Shinobi: I believe that they in fact do not get that. They have no respect for government or governing or laws. They have always been able to do what ever they can afford to do. They will take money, or other currency, from anyone, if it suits their purposes.
LAO
@Yarrow: The interesting thing to see, is whether Futerfas can keep Jr. from appearing on Hannity tonight. My money is on no.
Raoul
This from the email chain seems rather important, too:
So they had an established channel for sending stuff right to the top, even if they didn’t use it in this particular instance (that we know of, for now.)
SatanicPanic
I’m about middle-aged and this is the weirdest f*cking thing I’ve ever seen in politics. I can’t even begin to guess the angle here.
LAO
@rikyrah:
As have I — it pretty standard and par for the course, for NYC defense attorneys.
Barbara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: My view is that whoever has been providing the drip drip to journalists waited to see how Trump would comport himself when he met Putin and concluded that, yes, it really was as bad as he thought it might be and actually maybe even worse. Time to send up some new intelligence. Except that between the lines, this seems to be coming from the WH itself. Who is doing this? Kellyanne Conway? Steve Bannon? Surely not Kushner himself, which would just show the depth of his own lies and complicity. I am stumped, really. This is so unprecedented I don’t know what to think about anyone’s possibly strategy for sending this information out.
Boatboy_srq
@daveNYC: Unfortunately, diminished capacity is a very believable standard for Lord Dampnut and his heirs.
FlipYrWhig
@Raoul: Notice that too. Who is “Rhona”?
MattF
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I think ‘Marshall’s Razor’ applies here. Don’t assign subtlety to what can be explained by stupidity
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as somebody said on twitter yesterday, the trumps make 5
FlipYrWhig
@Barbara: I still think the person providing most of the damaging info will turn out to be Michael Flynn.
eric
@Keith P.: That is an implicit admission that it WOULD be treason if in office. That is not good.
rikyrah
Where we stand
Liberal Librarian
July 11, 2017
Boatboy_srq
@Barbara: Is it possible that Pence isn’t quite as inept as we’ve been led to believe? Because removing POTUS for incapacity seems reachable today, and that puts the KKKristian Ken doll within reach of the Oval Office.
catclub
@JPL:
If the meeting is about adoption then it is really about lifting sanctions – which is private citizens conducting foreign policy – extremely verboten if Democrats do it.
I can imagine the intermediary not telling the lawyer what he told Trump Jr in order to get the meeting.
Yarrow
@MCA1:
Hasn’t Daddy been quiet about this period? I was out of the loop yesterday but thought I read Trump hadn’t tweeted about this at all.
Just One More Canuck
@LAO: I’m here for you
eric
@VOR: that depends. You might still be able to assert the Fifth for the State law crimes. (not a full 5th Amend expert)
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Isn’t Donald, Jr. supposed to be the smart brother? Why haven’t we heard about Eric’s part yet? Was he perhaps the getaway guy? Was he out front on a skateboard and wearing Groucho eye glasses and fake nose?
MCA1
@misterpuff: I still recall listening to my f-i-l, staunch, lifelong R who nonetheless believes that good governance is a worthwhile pursuit, is closely tied to a number of people who have been in high levels of government, cares about the less fortunate and connected and has done an incredibly admirable amount of work throughout his life to actually help them, and who pays a lot of attention and understands the substance of real policy – in other words the laboratory test case for just far tribalism and emotion can be pushed before sanity and country first take over – gushing over Uday and Qusay and Lolita speaking at the RNC. The well-off, educated, “I’ve been voting GOP so long I could never even find the “D” on a ballot” Republicans were desperately fishing about for something that would normalize Drumpf, and they found it in his children’s anodyne, robotic speeches that managed not to demonize half the country. So they naturally overcompensated and blew these three up as spectacular, talented people who reflect so well on their father. (He’s since mentioned several times how disgusting a human he thinks Orange Julius Caesar is, so I guess this effect wore off quickly on him.)
But I wonder how others like him are feeling now.
Lapassionara
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): we lived in Kansas at the time and were elated with the outcome. Now I live in St Louis, and I am very careful to avoid this subject, as the Cardinals fans still hold a grudge against the umpire. Not sure this is an apt analogy for what is happening now, however. I think the Trump family has no moral, ethical, or legal compass. The rules just don’t apply to them, and their past conduct has shown that to be true. Whether it will remain true is the question. The fate of our republic depends on the rule of law prevailing.
Boatboy_srq
@BGinCHI: Combo of mob tactics and money-laundering real-estate schemes, you mean,…
rikyrah
@JPL:
Whomever is in the IC whose job it is to dole out the stories between the big news agencies.
different-church-lady
CNN.com ticker: “White House officials, lawyer advising Trump not comment on Don, Jr. reports”
NobodySpecial
As I said elsewhere, I don’t trust it. It’s a supposed screen cap of some emails. Nothing physical and easily contested – and if no corroboration comes up to go with it, it’s another kerning thing that discredits every real investigation.
We may think they’re stupid, but I have a hard time believing they’re that stupid half a year or more later. Care about it after Mueller or Bharara drops some financial crimes charges on them.
Aleta
@LAO: I think I was wrong then, about my (very shallow) impression that he (combined with the Trumps’ out-of-control issues) might not be handling the politics well. Thanks for reminder that a lawyer’s view is different from the start.
catclub
@rikyrah:
I realize it is bad when the US elections are damaged by foreign intervention, but I also realize that the US, in the past, has frequently interfered in elections in other nations. The shocked self-righteousness about interference in our elections is jarring.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Man, I wish we had the calm, sage voice of Victoria Jackson or Chachi to guide us through the intricacies of this story.
Mezz
@dmsilev: Yeah I was thinking today of poor Charles II (Habsburg) of Spain. But they had Charles V, HRE and King of Spain, who was pretty outstanding as a leader.
The Borgias may be the best/most comparable. Rodrigo seems to have been a so-so Pope, but I don’t know much of the Church history there, just Renaissance Italy.
Chet
We are well past Austin Powers Swedish Penis Pump denial here. Last night when the news broke that the email existed, I assumed it would have to be subpoenaed to see the light of day.
There’s no credibility in believing Pence was out of the loop. My question is how much did McConnell know, when he was digging in on not confirming a duly appointed SCOTUS justice.
d58826
@Bruce K:
his name is Robert Mueller III hence three sticks. I first saw that somewhere in the MSM so it isn’t a BJ thing. IIRC it is a nick name that he goes by.
Raoul
@manyakitty: No shit. The retainer seems like it would have to be uuuuuge, given Sr’s propensity to shaft vendors.
p.a.
Don Sr.: I may not believe in or understand science, but I want DNA tests on this fucker NOW!
Out of the will, even when tests +.
The Moar You Know
@SatanicPanic: We’re probably about the same age. I thought I’d see it all when Reagan let his pet five-star colonel run a full on war and drug smuggling operation out of a basement closet, but this is far weirder. At least I understood what Reagan was trying to get accomplished (hint: it was awful) but like you I can’t even guess at what they’re trying to get done here.
Barbara
@FlipYrWhig: That would make sense. Manafort also could have spilled the information. I would imagine that neither is all that keen on going to the big house on behalf of Trump or Kushner. And it could be that Trump Junior tweeted it all out because it became obvious to him that journalists had the whole correspondence. NYT says that it was forwarded to Manafort, who of course could have forwarded it further.
MCA1
@Yarrow: I think that’s right. Perhaps because there’s about a 90% certainty he was either right there in the room with them at that meeting, or gave it the thumbs up, directed Junior and St. Laurent of Arabia on his desired outcomes, and got a full debriefing afterward. Which perhaps precipitated his unprompted request that Russia find a way to hack Clinton’s e-mails like 24 hours after the meeting occurred (if memory serves).
It’ll be interesting when the questions start flying about what communication was given to Hair Furor about this meeting, given that he was in the building that very day.
Mezz
@Keith P.:
FTW
rikyrah
@zhena gogolia:
I know…I know..
randy khan
@GregB:
Yep.
Raoul
@PPCLI: The meeting happening in Trump Tower should be plenty of grounds for jurisdiction (though IANAL).
Chet Murthy
@catclub:
No. FUCK YOU. Are you a US citizen? If so, surrender your F**G PASSPORT and move to F**G RUSSIA. Jesus christ. It’s come to this? You’re a citizen? Did you F**G READ learn anything in American History? Civics? Move to Russia. Delete your account.
ONLY WE get to decide who gets to fuck with our elections, sunshine. WE the people. So FUCK YOU.
ETA: Yeah, and no shit, Mossadegh, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Allende, and the list goes on and on and on. “Oh, I killed my parents, but you’re a mob boss” — yeah, that’ll work real well in court.
SatanicPanic
@NobodySpecial: Why would their stupidity be hard to believe? Trump literally thinks that humans are like batteries and have a finite amount of energy, so he doesn’t exercise. That’s flat-earther level stupid.
catclub
@zzyzx:
I have no feeling at all for what negative dimensions would be. I almost have a sense of what fractional derivatives would be.
How about fractional dimensions?
p.a.
It’s the FSM testing the nation to see just how much the mouthbreathers can ignore to keep supporting tRump.
“Après Don le météore…”
Aleta
@West of the Rockies (been a while): She might run for ambassador to Alaska.
randy khan
@Raoul:
Rhona’s getting a call from the Feds, if she hasn’t already. I hope she has independent legal advice.
GregB
@rikyrah:
I think you now mean, 5 out of 6.
PJ
@Chet Murthy: Your “state secession” idea is Vlad’s ideal conclusion to this operation.
ETA: An ironic mirror to what happened to the Soviet Union.
FlipYrWhig
@NobodySpecial: But Don Jr. tweeted them too. That’s corroboration that he at least participated in the email chain, no?
@catclub: Ooh, that’s not a bad idea: Goldstone says “you should take this meeting, it’s all about dirt on Hillary,” which gets the Doofus Brigade into the room, but the Russian lawyer has no idea about any of that and starts talking about the Magnitsky Act, and Trump Jr. and Kushner are flummoxed because they don’t know what that even means, so then they walk. Hmph, but Manafort would know… That version of the story still leaves the Trumplings looking naive and opportunistic but perhaps that’s the best they can do…
SatanicPanic
@catclub: Who here was supporting that?
zhena gogolia
@Chet Murthy:
Haha, thanks!
dmsilev
@different-church-lady:
TrumpTweetStorm in 4…3…2…
Chet Murthy
@PJ: indeed it is. But if the Rs refuse to shut down the cartel upon clear evidence of treason, there’s not much more to be done, is there? I mean, at that point, it’ll be a choice between watching Vladi continue to penetrate our govt at all levels (as Adam puts it) and breaking it up, salvaging the good parts.
And again, I don’t think it happens, b/c too many wealthy and powerful people realize that that’s the endgame.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“look at me, Papa!” as plausible as any other explanation
Nothing left for Eric to do but start getting photographed in a blonde wig and a dress with lots of bows with a simpering smile he imagines is both intriguing and benevolent
Tim C.
The only factor that matters is Trump’s approval with the base. Eric’s strategy is actually smart that way. Fake everything and accuse opponents/investigators of being part of the deep state conspiracy. The rubes eat it up on Fox news and Trump stays at 40% approval. A few GOP senators frown and make concerned noises. That’s it. Mueller will likely issue a blistering report that will create some drama for a week or two. Then the GOP and it’s voters dismiss and ignore it.
MCA1
@catclub: It’s not that, so much as (a) the fact that it appears American citizens cooperated with the foreign power in its intervention to their own electoral benefit, and (b) the cost of that intervention. i.e. the fact that the downpayment for this interference was changing the GOP platform statement on weapons for Ukraine, and the continued interest payments have been to do Russia’s bidding on basically every foreign policy issue. If some Belgians had fucked around with our election and then gone away, whatever. But we’ve been made a client state of a dictatorship with a toilet bowl economy halfway around the world because of, at best, the occupant of the White House’s colossal ego’s inability to admit that his glorious victory may not have been quite so glorious as he dreamed it to be, and at worst, that person’s willing collaboration. The real world, post-election consequences are what I’m personally more indignant about.
catclub
@Chet Murthy: Thanks for the ETA. I was getting worried.
Kilgore Trout
@Shinobi: Um, “…I love it especially later in the summer”. Look at the timeline. This message was received loud and clear by the Russians and their Wikileaks ally.
MazeDancer
How soon will Fox & Friends start “Pardon Pushing”? As in drum beat of how Trump has to pre-emptively pardon everyone to stop this partisan witch hunt.
p.a.
How man properties does tRump own in nations w/o US extradition treaties?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
or maybe Tiffany is gazing out a window with a goblet of wine in her hand, a serene and blood-chilling half-smile on her lips, imagining she sees all of trump’s landing smoldering in shrieks and green fire.
“The trust is irrevocable, is it not, Mother?”
Chet Murthy
@zhena gogolia: A little intemperate, but I’m naturalized, and I swore an oath to our country. I swore that if called before the HUAC, I would appear. I forswore all other allegiances (and we gave up our Indian passports). I take my citizenship seriously, and it really, really, really pisses me off when others do not. I bet that idiot is natural-born.
ETA: Would s/he respond to a Russian invasion with “oh, we’ve invaded so many other countries on false pretenses, we have no leg to stand on”?
BGinCHI
@Boatboy_srq: Exactly.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@LAO: I feel for your pal. I hope he got a cashier’s check for the retainer. Likewise I hope he’s got an adequate supply of the anxiolytics of his choice.
FlipYrWhig
@Tim C.: I largely agree; diehard Republicans are, pretty much to a person, dedicated believers in many loathsome things, and they like it that way. But Trump didn’t just win them; he also won the votes of squishy apolitical people who really hated Hillary Clinton for what they perceived to be lying and corruption and general shady behavior and who saw Trump as, believe it or not, HONEST (because he’s uninhibited, which plays as honesty). Trump has undertaken SO MUCH lying and corruption and shady behavior that it has to be playing havoc with the group of people who thought, for all his faults, he was honest.
Shell
Is this why some Republicans are pushing for suspending the August recess? So they don’t have to go home and face their constituents?
catatonia
@MCA1:
“Perhaps because there’s about a 90% certainty he was either right there in the room with them at that meeting, …”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWdBOsk8D7A
Facebones
Following Josh Marshall’s Trump Razor theory (The stupidest answer is the correct one) I theorize this:
Li’l Donnie just spent a day listening to all of his Dad’s apologists explain that Don Jr. was just naive and stupid and didn’t know what he was doing.
Li’l Donnie stewed about this and got angry and finally said “I’ll show them how stupid I am! I knew exactly what I was doing the whole time!!!”
Then he posted all the emails. “That’ll show them!”
PJ
@Chet Murthy: We do have another election in 16 months. While I’m sure the Republicans and the Russians will do everything in their power to make sure that election goes the same way as the last one by suppressing voters and manipulating vote tallies and hacking accounts, I maintain the hope that enough Americans who otherwise might vote Republican will have been woken up by all the evidence of criminality and treason.
Yarrow
@Boatboy_srq:
Nope. Pence is just as guilty. Manafort was his connection to being VP–Manafort pushed for Pence. If Pence becomes President he won’t last long. He’s a traitor as well.
GxB
@randy khan: All I know is My Rhona is getting the best legal defense money can buy…
As it is….
My, my, my, sure Rhona
I’ll show myself out…
SFAW
So, is Melania Uday and Qusay’s handler, too? Or does she just stick to Lying Littledick? When this is all done, I bet she gets the Russian equivalent of the Eisenkreuz, for having to sleep with the Obese Orange, and pretend to enjoy it.
Betty Cracker
@NobodySpecial: If the incriminating email Jr. released isn’t genuine, that only means the real one is worse. How is Jr. releasing an email that makes him look like an eager collaborator with a hostile foreign power supposed to blow up on the opposition?
@catclub: It’s possible to deplore both, isn’t it? Are we supposed to think, oh well, the U.S. fucked with elections all over the world, so shruggies?
NobodySpecial
@FlipYrWhig: Is it at least possible that a colluder could have doctored it up and given copies both to Jr. and the NYT? If so, then I don’t trust it. Too many people have their dicks in the wind to trust that they won’t do anything to avoid getting caught. On the GOP side, the list of dirty tricks they’re capable and willing to do STARTS with releasing phony disinformation. On the Russian side, they got no problems giving people radioactive tea or defenestration lessons. Why shouldn’t we assume they’re capable of tricking the NYT, who’s half in the bag for them already?
d58826
This is all just so unbelievably weird. Only thing I keep thinking is Maddow’s warning the other night about a planted fake news story. I’m not saying it is but if that is what it is then the credibility of most of the media would disappear in an instant.
Immanentize
@JPL: Whenever anyone involved says, “adoption,” they mean “SANCTIONS.” They were dealing about getting sanctions lifted. Not about babies.
eyelessgame
It’s simple. His dad pardons him, and then his dad works out a deal with the treasonous fuck Ryan where he signs a tax cut and Ryan doesn’t let impeachment come up.
By 2020 they will have their agents wormed in enough that they can suppress and distort election results to stay in power.
That’s the plan, anyway. We’re going to see if it works.
SatanicPanic
@d58826: Why would Junior plant something on himself? That makes no sense.
manyakitty
@LAO: Fair enough, what with the criminal defense specialization. Even so, these people turn everything they touch to hot, gooey piles of feces.
Betty Cracker
@d58826: Trump Jr. released the emails himself. How could the media be blamed for publishing the emails that Trump Jr. released?
WaterGirl
@Just One More Canuck: I’ve never seen that movie. Is it worth watching? That little clip made me think it just might be! Made me laugh.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Here is another crazy though; The Russians didn’t intend to get involved in the election, likely viewing fixing a US election as unlikely as anyone else did in 2016, instead they contacted Trump’s people threw a proxy to lobby him on sanctions and Trump started pushing for the Russians to fix the election for him. Now after the G20 the Russians are pissed because Trump turned on them and the Russians view it as them being the ones entrapped by Trump.
James Powell
@Tim C.:
Agree. The press/media still present everything in a way that it’s just another Team Red vs. Team Blue story. Kellyanne Conway & others will be allowed to come on the shows and lie, dissemble, and distract. Republican senators and a few congress-creatures will express concern, but then quickly change the subject.
And the Republican voters, if they read the story at all, will still support Trump because they believe now, just as they believed last year, that anything was justified in the effort to keep Hillary out of the White House. They will never change their minds about that.
d58826
jimmiraybob
[The White House. Don Sr. asks VP Pence to leave the room]
Don Jr., are you a good soldier?
Yes, father.
Don Jr., am I the head of the household?
Yes, father.
Don Jr., I need a good soldier. Can I count on you?
Yes, father.
Don Jr., my consigliere will hand you an envelope. In the envelope is a copy of an email. Do you understand what I am asking?
Yes, father.
Don Jr. leaves the room with the envelope, scans it and publishes it to the world.
The father hangs his head in shame. He can’t believe that the idiot son, the Trump legacy, did not understand that he was to burn the envelope. Fade to a snowy scene of a sled.
Annnnd, cut. Print!
zhena gogolia
@Chet Murthy:
Unfortunately, I feel as if we’ve already been invaded. The Supreme Court is what depresses me the most. We have an illegitimate president and a Supreme Court justice he named after they stole the seat. And everybody just sat back and let them do it because we assumed Hillary would win.
Peale
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): No. They believe that nothing is going to happen to themselves and this will eventually just demoralize us further. It’s like we’re the kid tied to the tether ball pole watching while the bully kisses our former girlfriend.
different-church-lady
NIXON: What if we just play the tapes on the radio?
DEAN: I don’t think that’s advisable, Mr. President.
Immanentize
@FlipYrWhig: Not Flynn, Manafort. Paul Manafort has all the good stuff, not Flynn. Flynn was never a player — never a detail guy. Manafort has already updated his filings to make them retroactively accurate. That is rule one of being a government witness. He is singing. I guarantee it. And he knows both sides of the equation — Trump and Russia.
FlipYrWhig
@NobodySpecial: So you’re expecting that Trump Jr. will say, haha, “it was all fake news, I hoaxed everyone by PRETENDING to be incriminated by it, stoopid failing MSM”? Why wouldn’t he have done that by now, though?
All I can figure is that they’ll come down to saying that this Goldstone character was lying about the meeting and his sources, which is what IMHO that GOP Arkansas Project alumnus who was trying to buy emails from Russian hackers was doing. I think they could still pull that off: “we were approached by various sketchy people who promised dirt and talked big about their Russian contacts, and, yes, we listened just to humor them, but those claims never materialized, so, no harm, no foul.”
SatanicPanic
@d58826: Profile in courage right there.
PJ
@Betty Cracker: @catclub: This is the classic Soviet “what about ___!” response to any criticism of Soviet behavior – there was always some US or Western behavior, now or in the past, that was bad, so the US should do nothing to stop or criticize the Soviets. If clean hands are a prerequisite to enforce norms of behavior, or the law, then you will wind up with a world of criminality and might makes right.
Raoul
Interesting take via twitt-box that the email leak to NYT may have been Putin, retaliating against 45 for his backtracking on the cyberteam cooperation er, I mean, cooptation.
d58826
@Betty Cracker: NYT broke the original story over the week,. I didn’t say it made any sense but releasing those e-mails is so monumentally stupid you begin looking for ghosts.
Yarrow
@d58826: Brave, bold Lindsey. Taking a stand.
patrick II
@Raoul:
Need to reach Trump? Call Rhona.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Lapassionara: Same thing kind of happened to the Cubs in 2003 after the Steve Bartman interference fiasco. It was only game six, and game 7 would be played regardless, but it was already over.
zhena gogolia
@PJ:
Yes, we’re throwing intellectuals into psychiatric hospitals, but look at how they’re treating the American Negro!
Raoul
@randy khan:
Nahhh, her boss’s lawyer told her she doesn’t need that.
Sandia Blanca
This is who Rhona is. Trump’s trusted right hand.
Major Major Major Major
@PJ: Or like how we can’t say anything about women’s rights in America when we support the Saudis.
Mike in DC
Cross-posting this from LGM:
Consider the full run collusion/quid pro quo scenario now:
1. The Russian government, at Putin’s direction, interferes with the US election.
2. The purpose of this interference is to undermine Clinton and help Trump.
3. This interference is broad, extensive and prolonged.
4. The Trump campaign, contrary to public statements, is aware of this interference and the intent thereto at a relatively early stage.
5. They are in contact with the Russians and express interest in working together.
6. At some point, the lifting of sanctions is discussed.
7. Publicly, the Trump campaign exploits the leaks, recapitulates fake news articles, and ridicules the idea that Russia is behind the leaks.
8. Meanwhile there appears to be some level of coordination between the campaign and the leakers.
9. Trump wins the election and the Kremlin literally celebrates.
10. There is post election contact with the Russians and sanctions are again discussed, as well as possible side deals to the economic benefit of key players in the Trump camp.
11. Trump continues to deny the interference and pushes the intel community to rebut allegations and when Comey refuses to drop the Flynn investigation and steps up the pace, fires him.
12. After, Trump has a meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak in the Oval, and there and in a subsequent interview admits to firing Comey to stop the Russia investigation. The Trump campaign also works strenuously to block or water down the congressional sanctions bill.
The scary thing is, pretty much all of this is now confirmed and in the public record. Stop waiting for the smoking gun and looking for fire. The whole damn forest is burning.
WaterGirl
@maryQ: Decades ago I was part of a support group through the church I attended. At one meeting a lovely woman recounted how her dad used to wake her up in the middle of the night and make her go stand in the closet for 3 hours. She had no idea that this was not normal until she was in high school and mentioned something about it to a friend.
That’s what I thought of this morning – it’s so commonplace for them to be in bed with the russians and the mob that they are just like that young woman – that’s the norm for them so it doesn’t seem like a big deal; they indeed see nothing wrong with it.
I am also reminded of those personality tests where they ask you questions like: if someone cuts in front of you in line, do you: a} say, excuse me, but I was here first, b) say hey asshole, get in the back of the line, c) do nothing, d) fantasize about killing him in front of his mother or e) report him to the authorities. I used to laugh about that, thinking that of course no one would ever pick D even if it was true because you know that’s the one answer that is beyond acceptable. Except sociopaths don’t get that D is not an acceptable response.
These guys are pampered little sociopaths who have never been told ‘no’ EVER, and have never experienced the natural consequences of their behavior. They truly don’t get it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sandia Blanca: thanks, she looks a bit like “Martha” from The Americans.
Betty Cracker
@d58826: Releasing the emails makes sense since the NYT was about to publish them. Some idiot GOP congressman was just on TV saying it was admirable of Trump Jr. to release the emails in the name of transparency — as if the bastard had a choice, and as if there weren’t tapes of the smarmy little prick lying on TV about contacts with Russia. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see how this can be spun as a set-up…
MCA1
@James Powell: Right on cue, Ms. Lindsay has expressed deep concerns and stated that DJ will have to answer “a lot” of questions. Whoa! Be still my heart.
Democrats need to start wrapping themselves in the flag and shouting “disloyalty,” “Un-American” and “betrayed their country” every single chance they get. And tie it not to these meetings, but the actual policy that’s come from this collaboration with a foreign adversary.
I love Adam Schiff and am incredibly thankful he is where he is, but Dems need some louder, more shrill voices out there right now screaming about this and comparing Uday to Benedict Arnold and saying Putin is Lucifer himself and pointing out repeatedly that he’s a spy who murders journalists and political opponents and is straight out of a Bond movie. Something has to pop the fucking bubble over on the other side or we’ll never get out of this situation, and the media ‘aint gonna do it. I don’t know that Tim Kaine dropping the word “treason” today or putting forward some backbench Alan Grayson wannabe to start rabblerousing and being loudly intemperate will, either, but why not try? The longterm benefit could be that Democrats destroy once and for all that bullshit “patriot” shibboleth of Republicans.
Rasputin's Evil Twin
@dmsilev: Don’t forget the Romanovs!
Ksmiami
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: hang them. Next.
MisterForkbeard
@Mike in DC: I think #8 has yet to be really established other than through various tweets by Claude Taylor.
Chyron HR
@catclub:
Yeah, it was really bad when Republicans conspired to overthrow the legitimate governments of Iran and Nicaragua, but I don’t exactly see how it’s just deserts that Russia conspired to put the GOP back into the White House.
MisterForkbeard
@Betty Cracker: My thoughts exactly. He was told the NYT was about to release them (by the NYT), and he scrambled to publish them first in order to try and get some kind of PR benefit out of it.
Look for Republicans all over the place to start talking about how great and honorable it was that Jr. released the emails voluntarily, and how this proves he couldn’t have colluded and/or obviously didn’t mean to. Or that this proves that Trump Sr. didn’t know about it.
randy khan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The idea that this is Tiffany’s revenge is delicious, regardless of how far fetched it may be.
Wapiti
@catclub:
Perhaps, when this current mess is resolved, the next President can make a policy that the US will not tamper with foreign elections, just like we have a prohibition against assassinating foreign leaders.
Raoul
@FlipYrWhig: I admit, I didn’t even know when I posted that above, because it doesn’t even matter if Rhona were Trump’s hair colorist (eghad) because a channel is a channel. But she is his exec assistant, brought from campaign days into the WH, too!
Frankensteinbeck
@dmsilev:
No, no. Wait two days. His handlers will think they’ve talked him down. Trump will wake up at 3am, remember that anyone dared say his family committing treason is a bad thing, and grab his phone…
randy khan
@GxB:
This is one of those moments when I wish for upvoting.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Perhaps they’re going to claim these emails were faked by themselves?
It sounds stupid enough for them to try it at least. Other then that, I gotta assume they’re so stupid that Nigerian Princes come to them with great deals all the time.
tobie
@MCA1:
Sing it! And they should never forget to include that he orchestrated a bombing of his own people and then blamed it on Chechnyan separatists.
matryoshka
All true, but what can we actually do? Until the press stops playing access bingo and congress becomes something other than a day spa for rich white men, how do we put out this fire?
TenguPhule
@catclub:
Fuck you. Foreigners that fuck up our elections need to fuck off and be brutally killed by our CIA to make an example of them.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Another country heard from:
O! what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
TenguPhule
@matryoshka:
I understand that drowning works wonderfully.
Mike in DC
@MisterForkbeard:
Not established in terms of explicit coordination, but very fortuitous timing of leaks to coincide with the signaled talking points of the campaign, and fake news microtargeted at states identified by the campaign as crucial battlegrounds.
Mike J
Major Major Major Major
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: He’s right, we should wait at least another year, possibly election cycle, to really get to the bottom of this.
TenguPhule
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
He has a point, we can’t be too hasty in deciding the means of execution for traitors.
We have so many options available, after all.
zhena gogolia
@Mike in DC:
Good summary. This is what keeps me up at night.
Bailey
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
I’m a Royals fan. I definitely remember.
But I don’t think Team Trump was ever as good as the Cardinals to begin with. Ozzie Smith, they ain’t.
I can’t wait until this shitshow movie is made. Bobby Cannavale always looks like a dumbfuck on screen, to me. I vote he play Donnie ‘Fredo’ Junior.
different-church-lady
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Apparently the revolution will be tempered.
d58826
@Betty Cracker: I don’t really think it is a setup. But after the past years I guess if the sun came up in the west I would not be surprised.
The Moar You Know
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Huh, think I predicted this in the last thread. Right on schedule.
Bernie needs to be hauled in and spend some quality time with interrogators from every three-letter service we have. He’s in this up to his bushy eyebrows.
TenguPhule
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I thought that was Russian Roule$$e? Using fully loaded revolvers.
Frankensteinbeck
To add another layer of strangeness, the reporter who spent a year building this story is having a meltdown on Twitter that Jr scooped him. https://twitter.com/jysexton/status/884799323606847489
@catclub:
I’m not seeing a lot of ‘how dare Russia interfere’. I’m seeing ‘we are under attack’ and ‘how dare the GOP/Trump collude.’ It makes just as much sense to get angry that you’re being attacked if you believe attacking itself is moral.
GxB
@randy khan: Aw shucks… [pushes toe into the dirt]
TenguPhule
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Kill em all.
Because crime will no longer be illegal.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@The Moar You Know:
Purity became very very lucrative in the last two years, ever since a person named Tad Devine entered his orbit. Trump fired Manafort. Bernie kept Devine the whole time, knowing what his history was in Ukraine, and you can’t tell me for one second Manafort doesn’t have more info on that relationship to share with the FBI, who now undoubtedly has both Sanders’ tax returns.
frosty
@zhena gogolia: I’m trying to figure out how to get some work done too. Go down to the parking lot and lock the phone in the car? I’m pretty good at not using the work computer for anything but work. So fat.
Immanentize
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I swear I do not understand Bernie’s game — unless he too was offered (and accepted) Russian help?
Immanentize
@different-church-lady:
But it will definitely be televised
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: I’m hoping his wife’s scandal shuts down any plans for 2020/
ruckus
@LAO:
How fucking stupid are these people?
It’s immeasurable, given our current limits of human understanding.
ruemara
@d58826: Watch him crawl to the fainting couch and do… nothing.
@The Moar You Know: “Fuck Bernie∞”
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: he’s an old-school Marxist, among them it’s in vogue to pooh-pooh this.
Immanentize
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Actually, the fact that Sanders in in with the Russians also might be a good opportunity for the GOP to stay alive — and they would seize it! Both sides, amirite?
Immanentize
@SatanicPanic: His age will shut down any plans for 2020. That election will be a generation shift election.
rikyrah
@Mike in DC:
yep.
Russia is a HOSTILE FOREIGN POWER.
Why does this need to be spelled out – at all?
ruemara
@Immanentize: Devine. Worked with Manafort. Swears he’s not involved, but they were also happy to use hacked DNC information. He’s also one of those “vacationed in Russia, has said nice things” person. May not be as seditious as the Don, but probably has been a useful tool to “foment the revolution” by boosting his ego.
TenguPhule
@Boatboy_srq:
Fortunately we have a long tradition of executing the mentally incompetent.
zhena gogolia
@frosty:
I’m working at home, so I don’t have a solution. I’m just toggling back and forth on the same computer.
eric
@MisterForkbeard: if he had the email, then how did it forget to put in on his disclosure?
Immanentize
@Major Major Major Major: Ha! Trotskyite or is he still with Stalin?
steppy
1. Honest to God, I think Fredo believes that the important part of the thread is the part about “information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia.” Even at this late date, I think they still think they will put Hillary in jail.
2. Article III, Section 3: “No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.” There were three guys in the room, so potentially two witnesses. Sounds like a very interesting game of musical chairs, depending on who flips first.
rikyrah
@MCA1:
TELL IT
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
People who voted for Trump are terrible spellers.
LAO
Immanentize
@ruemara: Oh, I think it is more than that — I think the Russian troll army probably accounts for like 30% of Sander’s small donations.
LAO
@steppy: Fredo doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
MisterForkbeard
@Frankensteinbeck: Right. I EXPECT Russia and other nations to try and interfere with our elections in at least some restrained manner. And we should treat them accordingly.
We don’t expect our parties and presidential candidates to go about actively (and secretly) seeking the help of other nations to commit crimes on their behalf to increase republican electoral chances. I mean, we DO expect these republicans to do that, because they’re horrible people. But these American citizens betrayed their own country and their oaths, and they need to be arrested and punished.
Immanentize
@LAO: It’s real because it wasn’t about golden showers and sex, it was about pissing on the place where the Obamas slept. When that was revealed, I knew it was real.
Frankensteinbeck
@steppy:
Pretty sure tweeting This himself counts as confession AND testifying against everyone else involved.
LAO
@Immanentize: -Waves hello- I haven’t been around much, hope things are going well with wife’s treatment.
ETA: Yeah, the pee tape has to be real. Trump is too damn petty.
Immanentize
@steppy: I think people should really forget about treason and focus on the other, much easier to prove crimes, like soliciting aid or assistance from a foreign government in a federal campaign.
Immanentize
@LAO: Waves back!!
Not so much.
LAO
@Immanentize: I’m so sorry.
TenguPhule
@Chet Murthy:
Option 3: Heads on Pikes. Lots of heads.
Immanentize
@Frankensteinbeck: Yes. his emails are all you need for an indictment — and conviction — on soliciting foreign aid in the campaign. Very serious felony.
Frankensteinbeck
@Immanentize:
I stand firm on my assertion that the blackmail tapes are sex with an underage prostitute. Trump likes to see 15 year olds naked, and has been to parties with 13 year old prostitutes.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize:
I think these people are long overdue for an execution; At this point trials are going to be a mere formality.
Hell, I’ll even settle for killed while resisting arrest at this point.
Immanentize
@LAO: Yeah, well, new regimen started last Friday. Hoping this one works. Then on to trials if there are any. I do appreciate you asking. I have to think law stuff occasionally to keep my mind healthy. Luckily, no dearth of opportunities there!
LAO
I’m no Rick Wilson fan, but:
rikyrah
@ruemara:
Up to his eyeballs with the Russians.
Immanentize
@Frankensteinbeck:
It’s not a binary.
Immanentize
@Chet Murthy:
You have some pervy pron preferences….
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@LAO: And yet, it hasn’t surfaced.
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: seems like he’d have been more of a Stalinist. Or, which one prefers sitting on your ass blathering about others’ purity to actually doing work?
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I’m so sorry to hear that, really hoping the new treatment is the thing that works.
steppy
@Immanentize: Just a flight of fancy.
trollhattan
@jimmiraybob:
Bravos and golf claps for film treatment.
During credit crawl, run outtake of Don Sr. yelling “Pence, get in here and bring that goddamn recorder with you!”
rikyrah
@LAO:
Absolutely, with underaged GIRLS.
Immanentize
@Major Major Major Major:
The neighborhood apparatchik in charge of self-criticism sessions..
rikyrah
@Immanentize:
Sending your family positive thoughts and prayers.
Immanentize
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: The Russians do not favor Trump, they favor chaos. in 2016 it was the Dems. In 2018 it might very well be the Republicans. It would suit the Russian long game to hold back the damaging stuff about the current party in power to maximize chaos.
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: you really think he’d have been competent enough to rise to the level of neighborhood apparatchik?
LAO
@Immanentize: Try, as difficult as it may be, to remain optimistic. I really believe state of mind is important.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: @rikyrah:
Thank you. Cancer is wicked smaht. After good initial results, it adapted and thrived in the chemo like it was fertilizer…. It is all pretty grim.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: Thai Ladyboys, because why wouldn’t the Russians not take the opportunity to make sure their balls touched.
different-church-lady
@TenguPhule: You sure you really want to play a game of Calvinball that’s lethal?
Immanentize
@Major Major Major Major: Well, his father is a very important man, donchaknow….
gvg
Does the SS guard the grand kids too? Because my only theory for why Don Jr would publish this is threats to wife and kids. I don’t even see a benefit if the Times published. waiting for them to go first might turn out to be incomplete or partially fake that he could use to discredit them. It does feel unreal. Did watergate sometimes seem like this?
Amaranthing RBG
I’ve been guilty, more than once, of imputing strategic thinking skills to the Trump camp, so I hesitate to say this, but …
This looks like a good move by Jr. The NYT had the emails and had questioned him about them so he knew they had them. Better to disclose it than let the NYT do so.
The Trumpites have already started their pivot towards – “Well, Clinton/McCain/somebody else got that dossier sourced from Russians about Trump, so this is all just politics as usual.”
With a Democrat controlled house/senate, the impeachment would be well underway. Not going to happen with Rs in charge.
TenguPhule
@different-church-lady: Participation is going to be mandatory, unless you can get a fast ride out of the country in time.
Frankensteinbeck
Also note: Jared Kushner was specifically raised to believe it is the duty of family members he has victimized to fall in their sword for him. If he decides he can save himself by throwing Trump and even Ivanka to the wolves, he will not hesitate.
TenguPhule
@gvg:
In what alternate universe do you think any Trump gives a shit about anyone other then themselves?
LAO
Immanentize
@LAO: I actually am very optimistic both by nature and about scientific possibilities. My colleagues once gave me a set of stickies that say, “Optimism is my strategy.” AND we live in the Boston area which is about as good as it gets for fighting this. But, realistic too — I really can’t get caught short just wishing with a 16 year old, etc.
LAO
@gvg:
Call me crazy — but Jr. published the email chain because, since he got no dirt on Clinton, he believes he didn’t do anything wrong.
Quinerly
Interesting piece on Jr’s atty. He’s fresh off of representing a Russian hacker: http://www.jta.org/2017/07/10/news-opinion/united-states/alan-futerfas-4-things-to-know-about-donald-trump-jr-s-jewish-lawyer
LAO
@Immanentize: Too true — I’m a horribly pessimistic person, so I always expect the worst and rarely let myself hope for the best. Still, I’m sending you all of my good thoughts.
Immanentize
@LAO:
This is why, presumably, he hired an attorney — to disabuse him of these stupid thoughts.
I am now thinking Junior also has a substance abuse problem. This is the kind of decision one makes when really fucked up.
Immanentize
@LAO: We would make really good trial partners.
jimmiraybob
@trollhattan:
I was afraid that it might be too soon. But then I hear that Hollywood can be a bit competitive. [insert smiley face here]
Just in case, I wrote an alternative to pitch:
[The White House. Don Sr. asks VP Pence to leave the room]
Don Sr., are you a good soldier?
Yes, Mr. President. And may I say what a great, great honor it was meeting you.
Don Sr., am I the head of the household?
Yes, Mr. President.
Don Sr., I need a good soldier. Can I count on you?
Yes, Mr. President.
Don Sr., my consigliere will hand you an envelope. In the envelope is a copy of an email. Do you understand what I am asking?
Yes, Mr. President….no, not really. But yes…and no. What would you like me to say?
[Mr. Putint produces an artist’s sketch]
Yes, Mr. President, now I understand.
Don Sr. leaves the room with the envelope, ………….
[Fade to snowy scene with Jared, Ivanka and the children heroically posing with their skis while enjoying holiday in the central Caucases]
Annnnnd cut! Print!
Uncle Cosmo
@BGinCHI:
Gitmo hell, I say convict ’em, confiscate their possessions & use the loot to pay for a new SuperMax – on Io. Rejuvenates the space program & keeps that collection of pond scum at least 300 million miles of fairly hard vacuum away. As an apparel designer, Daughter-Wife would appreciate the nice touch that their orange jumpsuits would not only match Daddy-Husband’s top-hair but the ever-changing surface of the Jovian satellite they’re stuck on…
LAO
@Quinerly: FWIW — I’ve known Alan Futerfas since 1997, he is a good person and a very good lawyer. There is no way he is part of any Russian collusion efforts.
Just one more canuck
@WaterGirl: I haven’t seen it in a long time so I can’t say how well it holds up- definitely some great lines like in the scene I linked to and another where Danny Devito gets a wrong number (can’t link from the iPad)
LAO
@Immanentize: As long as you’re willing to be the “smart one.”
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: That is grim. Shocking that it can be that smart. Hoping for a turnaround that is equally shocking, in a good way.
Chet Murthy
@Sandia Blanca: Oh damn. Donnie Jr. just threw Daddy’s EA under the bus! Of course she already was there, but shit, Jr just doesn’t care, does he?
Mel
@Immanentize: I hope the new medication is the one that turns things around.
Please take care of yourselves, and be extra kind to yourselves while you guys navigate this next round of treatments. It’s so hard, so exhausting in all ways, to fight a serious illness, and so very, very hard and heartbreaking as well when someone you love is fighting an illness.
Sending you both hugs.
Uncle Cosmo
@LAO: And the day (hopefully very soon) when he announces that he can no longer in good conscience represent Junior & casts the sniveling bastard adrift, he will become an even greater defense attorney…
Chet Murthy
@PJ: Actually, it’s simpler than this. ISTR when the Green Revolution was hot in Iran, the Rs were all het up about how we had to support ’em. And the key instigators in _Iran_ were “no, stay away, if you interfere, every right-thinking Iranian, whether supporting the Greens or not, will side with the Govt”. B/c Iranians, it turns out, are also patriots. They may want to change their government, but they’ll damn well do it themselves, and without America’s help, thankyouverymuch. This is relevant:
TenguPhule
@Uncle Cosmo:
What has Saturn ever done to us?
LAO
@Uncle Cosmo: So criminal defense attorneys should only represent people that you approve of? That’s not how it works.
NYCMT
@LAO: As my appellate litigator friend said just now re Futerfas:
Chet Murthy
@TenguPhule: Amen. And this time, I’m with you 100%. They’re not Americans, and they commit an act of war against our country, they get whatever our military can drop on ’em. Fuckem. Me personally, I also wanna see every bank account connected to any Russian oligarch terminated with extreme prejudice. All of ’em. All of ’em. Use it to pay off the US debt.
LAO
@NYCMT: That’s a pretty fair summary. I agree.
Uncle Cosmo
@Mezz:
Stripped of their familial taste, class, support for the fine arts, & skill with a stiletto rather than a nail-studded baseball bat…maybe.
Chet Murthy
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Mme. Citoyenne, can I suggest that it’s probably worth looking into Wilmer’s actual quote (and in context)? I’m not (any longer) a fan of his. But he’s been quoted out-of-context (and unfairly) enough times (and those quotes found their way onto this blog) that I think it’s worth checking the details.
Which doesn’t change that I get blisteringly steamed when he start ragging on the Dem party. But on this Trump-Russia thing? As far as I know, he’s been on the side of the angels pretty steadfastly.
Of course I could be wrong in this instance.
Rand Careaga
@TenguPhule:
OK, if I sign off on that, do I get to hang Henry Kissinger from a streetlight in downtown Santiago? Look, I’m as pissed off as the next guy about the Rooskies fucking with the 2016 election, but it can’t be denied that there’s a certain karmic balance being manifested here. It seems to me that the country either needs to acknowledge that foreign interference in elections is a legitimate tool in the conduct of statecraft, or it should leave off such tactics itself.
TenguPhule
@Chet Murthy: So something good did come out of this whole mess. We’re all coming together now.
TenguPhule
@Rand Careaga:
How much rope would you like to borrow?
We could have him on the first plane out.
Bex
@dmsilev: Hey, give a shout out to the Romanovs.
Chet Murthy
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’m not saying that a generous interpretation is the correct one. But for instance, last time a quote like this came up, it turned out that what Bernie was saying was, “we need to get these charges a thorough airing in Congress — these creeps need to be put under hot lights and on camera”. As opposed to what was happening, which was a media circus.
I think he was right — b/c our tribunes need to see, and be seen to see, the evidence. And act (and be seen to act) (or not act) on that evidence.
And in this instance, there’s always the chance of a false-flag operation. So it pays to be careful. Dan Rather and the kerning, after all, as Dr. Maddow pointed out.
But OTOH, I haven’t looked into his quote, and he could be blowing smoke up Vladi’s behind.
TenguPhule
@Rand Careaga:
As a self interested American, fucking with our elections elicits only one response to the offender;
“Fuck you, prepare to die horribly.”
different-church-lady
@Chet Murthy: What is it going to take to disabuse you of the notion that Trump Jr. is running a false flag operation directly against himself?
MattF
@LAO: Well, sure– if you have the opportunity to do something wrong, but it just doesn’t happen work out, then you’re home free. Right?
SFAW
@Immanentize:
Keeping my fingers crossed, hoping things go better-than-expected.
Quinerly
@LAO:
I understand where you are coming from. Saw your posts on other threads. I, too, am an attorney…32 years of practice. Private attys aren’t forced to take cases (unless indigent clients in some federal cases). Your friend could certainly turn Jr. down. These attys are certainly out of my class..I’m a paper pusher who left litigation years ago. Everyone does seem to have a Russian connection, though. Curious, how many Russian clients have you represented? Not trying to pick an argument. Just strange how everyone knows a Russian.?
Haydnseek
@Uncle Cosmo: No shit. LAO keeps fluffing this guy. Why? Because they both defend mob assholes? After all, every NYC defense attorney does it! Is there some law in New York state that prevents attorneys from selecting the clients they will represent?
Chet Murthy
@TenguPhule: Sorry, my friend. I’m with you when it comes to non-Americans conducting attacks against our country. But when it comes to -Americans-, I still believe in the rule of law, and long prison sentences.
Now, if Vladi decided to “clean up after himself” and offed the lot of ’em, I wouldn’t shed a single tear. But I couldn’t condone our country doing that. We’re all Americans, even Lord Putinfluffer.
Quinerly
@Haydnseek:
Kinda my point above. No decent human being would get involved with Trump and company.
TenguPhule
@Chet Murthy:
Death Penalty upon conviction is still a legal remedy for treason.
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
What the FUCK is WRONG with you? Of COURSE it will be illegal.
OK, it will only be illegal if the perpetrator is NOT a Republican, RWNJ, rich person, white usw, or if the victim belongs to any of those groups. But still …
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
Now if we can just get the Cardassians to run the trials
Chet Murthy
@Rand Careaga:
OK, I’m a little less …. inflamed by people excusing attacks on my country, so I can be more rational about this. Let me quote the Oath of Naturalization:
I assume you’re a natural-born citizen. Are you saying that you think you have lesser obligations to our country, than I do (who am naturalized)? Think carefully before you answer.
Haydnseek
@SFAW: This humble commenter thanks you for paying attention to proper spelling, and not giving in to the temptation of the cheap joke…….
Chet Murthy
@different-church-lady: Heh. Oh, church-lady, I confess, at the point that Jr. fessed up with the email, it became pretty open-and-shut. I was mostly just pointing out that until we get context on that Wilmer quote, it’s premature to tar him with Putinfluffer’s (ahem) brush. Once we get that context, if it’s damning, sure, I’m up for the posse.
NYCMT
@Quinerly: I gotta say, the logical end of that line of thinking is J. Random Anybody being deprived of counsel because of public accusations of heinous crimes and insinuations of personal and associational odiousness. Did you ever, while you pushed paper, represent anyone in a horrible criminal trial? I’ve had to listen to hundreds of hours of awful jailhouse phone calls by arsonists and child pornographers, and you don’t see me saying “fuck ’em, they don’t deserve a lawyer.”
Haydnseek
@NYCMT: She never said that nobody deserves a lawyer. Nobody is deprived of counsel because you don’t take a case. They can call Saul. There’s a million of ’em. Do you eat at shitty restaurants because you don’t want to deprive them of customers? You have agency…….don’t you?
? Martin
My sense here is that the rules for wealthy businessmen, which Don and Don Jr and Jared have always been, is so far removed from the rules for everyone else, especially public servants, that they cannot comprehend the magnitude of the trouble they are in. They likely think that they’ll get their hand slapped and pay a fine and promise to not do it again, because those are the worst consequences for wealthy businessmen. That they may have broken a law that people have been executed for is simply beyond their understanding. What’s more, they did not take the long grueling path up through campaigns and public service to learn these lessons and watch their colleagues behavior. They jumped straight to the top. They’re novices, and not very bright ones at that.
LAO
@Haydnseek: You call it fluffing, I call it a commitment to the Bill of Rights and the concept that the accused, no matter how vile, has the right to representation.
SFAW
@Haydnseek:
I have never been averse to making a cheap joke, but I have to admit that I don’t know which one I could have made.
[Re-reads comment, this time while moving lips …]
Oh, you meant using the last name of a certain notorious family, the one where the daughters all have names staring with “K”? No, my way is far more appropriate.
LAO
@Quinerly: You would be shocked to know, that most mobsters are represented by appointed counsel.
@NYCMT: You got there first.
Haydnseek
@LAO: Show me where I said otherwise. Let the bottom-feeders defend these assholes. If the bottom is too shitty, there’s always the public defenders office. Now those are the people who deserve respect………
Haydnseek
@SFAW: I think you’re probably right…….
LAO
@Haydnseek: I see what you are saying — the accused might be entitled to representation but that representation must be either (1) shitty, (bottom feeders) or (2) overworked and under resourced (public defenders). Got it.
grammypat
@LAO: Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! That comment is downright prescient … by about 2 hours. Congrats
Brachiator
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Laugh at the absurdity of it all.
@SFAW:
Cardassian Cardassians or Kardashian Kardashians?
Steeplejack
@Frankensteinbeck:
I feel bad for Sexton. But LOL:
LAO
I’m in moderation. I used a bad word. Sad face.
Rand Careaga
@Chet Murthy: I have given your question such careful thought as it merits. I respond that I am not excusing anything, but merely observing that based on its postwar track record the United States of America is on pretty fucking shaky moral and ethical ground when it declares foreign interference in elections to be unacceptable, since what this means is “it’s only acceptable when we do it.” It doesn’t mean that I enjoy taking it just because we’ve routinely dished it out. By the same token, I am by no means excusing or justifying the 9/11 attackers when I observe that the day’s butcher bill was scarcely even a rounding error measured against the death dealt from the sky upon noncombatants by this country over the past three-quarters of a century. To the side that has the cruise missiles, asymmetric warfare will ever appear in the light of an unsportsmanlike proposition.
You assume correctly that my US citizenship was acquired by circumstance of geography, and I accordingly never had occasion to recite the Oath of Naturalization. As to the part about “I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law,” I’d figured out by 1966 that there was no fucking way I was going to do that. I came of conscription age the year of Kent State, and forfeited my student deferment when I dropped out of college a few months later, but as I warned my father (Gunnery Sergeant, Edson’s Raiders, USMC, Guadalcanal, the Solomons, Guam), I was headed for Vancouver if my number came up in that year’s lottery (the number, drawn forty-six years ago, was satisfactorily high). To my surprise—he was a Nixon dead-ender—he said “I’ll spring for your bus fare. I’ve done enough fighting for this family.” I will leave you to draw your own conclusions from these remarks as to my civic character. I’m reasonably satisfied with it, myself.
frosty
@TenguPhule: Jeez, enough with the execution and torture fetish. You’re not a troll and I appreciate your contributions but you’re about to get pied. Give it a fucking rest.
NYCMT
@Haydnseek: My dad once served as a prison physician for Napanoch, Downstate, and Eastern Correctional, and, in 1980, personally examined and treated David Berkowitz. Should he have refused to practice his profession for Son of Sam? But I guess, since I attended a second tier law school, I’m fated to be a Saul or random immoral bottom feeder. Good to know.
LAO
@NYCMT: Us fellow, random immoral bottom feeders, can hang together.
Haydnseek
1@NYCMT: Of course not! Perish the thought! Was he forced to take that job? That’s the point of all this. If he took it voluntarily, then I would be shocked if he didn’t discharge his duties to the best of his abilities. I would repeat what I asked LAO about agency, but I can see it’s no use………..
TenguPhule
@frosty: Its not a fetish. And I don’t normally approve of torture.
But we’ve come to the point where the unthinkable is not only thinkable, but increasingly plausible.
We can’t have a civil society without the rule of law. Shit breaks down.
TenguPhule
@Rand Careaga:
Then your choice of words was not well chosen in your original comment.
TenguPhule
@LAO:
Agreed.
NYCMT
@LAO: What does it say about an attorney whose personal disapproval serves to be a pro-forma justification for invoking Model Rule 1.16(a) against an unrepresented person in jeopardy?
Quinerly
@LAO:
Actually, I am not.
Rand Careaga
@TenguPhule: I have revisited the original comment and find nothing therein that did not convey my intended meaning. It may be that you are reading too much into it.
LAO
@NYCMT: I personally don’t get it, see my comment at 328, when I take a case, it’s not an endorsement of the alleged criminal conduct. Rather, it reflects my commitment to our (flawed) criminal justice system and my belief that the government must be be able to prove the allegations in a court of law and not rely on innuendo or bias or public disgust to gain a conviction.
LAO
@Quinerly: I was. ?
Raoul
@d58826:
I might have thought that before Jr.’s tweets. But now that he has confirmed them, only the wackjobs would be persuaded later by ‘it was fake, and planted”. That gets the Trumps what, max 37% support. That is not winning.
Quinerly
@NYCMT:
Look, I didn’t comment to start a fight. I have never practiced criminal law..never had an interest. My point was LAO’s friend can obviously pick his clients. He doesn’t have to rep Trump. A lot of good and decent firms have turned down the daddy….much was made of that a couple of weeks ago. Personally, I think it says a lot about character. Plus, I found the article interesting about his having represented a Russian hacker in the past. I guess all heavy hitters in NY have represented at least a Russian or two. Learn something every day.
Quinerly
@NYCMT:
Totally different. See Hippocratic Oath re your father.
Quinerly
@LAO:
Understand you completely. One reason I have stayed far away from any kind of criminal work. Don’t have the stomach for it. Freely admit it. Now, here’s a question, would you represent Trump Jr.? ?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Rand Careaga: One can still hold the position that interfering in the elections of another country is still wrong no matter who does it and be angry when it’s done to yours. Do the innocent, powerless, and vulnerable of this nation deserve the consequences what Russia did to us?
Miss Bianca
wait, I…WTF? He *released* this tweet? Like somehow this *exonerates* them? My head is starting to hurt…
LAO
@Quinerly: Sure. As long as the check cleared. ?
NYCMT
@Quinerly: Not only have most of the NY heavy hitter criminal lawyers repped Russophones in NY, but there are *also* very probably (very very very very probably) direct conflicts in “the good and decent firms” foreclosing the possibility of TrumpOrg representation. He kept Kasowitz because of path dependency (deliberately *not* commenting on Kasowitz himself), and because he screwed up his relations with so many firms in his litigations.
LAO
@LAO: Since I can’t edit on phone, let me add: Mueller has assembled a top notch team, not sure Clarence Darrow could save Jr.
NYCMT
@Quinerly: My father was assaulted by an enraged patient in the hospital Medicaid clinic after he refused to certify a long-term disability – but he still ordered the antibiotic ointment for the man’s impetigo. That’s the model I want to follow.
Quinerly
@NYCMT:
Great model. You are a proud son. I think you have made it clear that you would have no problems representing the Trump clan. I would have a problem…even if I was qualified. That’s basically the discussion we are having.
Gravenstone
@Frankensteinbeck: Not seeing that as a meltdown, more rueing the oddness of it all. But it would be nice if Mr. Sexton would take a moment to compare Trump jr’s email chain with what he has in his possession. Just to corroborate the whole thing. Then he could maybe report as much, that there doesn’t appear to be any sleight of hand at work.
TenguPhule
@Rand Careaga:
It wasn’t just me. Which argues against your interpretation.
Quinerly
@NYCMT:
Glad I am a lowly semi retired paper pusher in third rate St. Louis who rehabs historic homes on the side and takes fabulous vacations with my dog. Heading back to the beach next week. Life be good.?
Quinerly
@LAO:
Tell that to Mr. Cole.? Steve might want to have a word with you.? In related news, Corner Stone picked a fine time to leave us.
Annie
@LAO:
Back when I worked in criminal defense law we used to call this “ineffective assistance of client,” as opposed to “ineffective assistance of counsel.”
janelle
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): To be fair, it didn’t just look like Orta was out, he was out. Don Denkinger himself (the ump in question) acknowledged that he blew the call to then-MLB Commissioner Peter Ueberroth immediately after he was shown the tape of the play. He wasn’t remotely close to being safe. It was easily the worst blown call in World Series history. Did it cost the Cardinals the series? Who knows. Orta would have been the first out in the inning, so it’s impossible to say if the Royals would have still been able to tie the game up and then ultimately win it, though obviously the likelihood of that happening would have been significantly less had Denkinger not screwed the pooch so bad in the first place.
Rand Careaga
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Of course they don’t, and I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t like it. I might be, say, a schoolyard bully, but no one would expect me not to roar with pain if I get suckerpunched. I would be delighted to see the entire Trump family in jumpsuits and manacles.
I do think that, dire as the Russian interference was, we should not disregard all of the homegrown elements that provided such fertile and well-watered ground in which that mischief took root, sprouted and thrived. If the 2016 election leads to the death of American democracy (“following a long illness,” as the obituaries say), I’m not certain but that history won’t arrive at a verdict of assisted suicide.
Annie
@dmsilev:
The Hohenzollerns. The similarities between. Kaiser Wilhelm II and Dolt 45 are terrifying.
janelle
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): To be fair, it didn’t just look like Orta was out, he was out. Don Denkinger himself (the ump in question) acknowledged that he blew the call to then-MLB Commissioner Peter Ueberroth immediately after he was shown the tape of the play. He wasn’t remotely close to being safe. It was easily the worst blown call in World Series history. Did it cost the Cardinals the series? Who knows. Orta being correctly called out would have put the Royals in the clearly worse position of being two outs away from elimination with nobody on, so it’s hard to say if the Royals would have still tied the game up and then ultimately won it, though obviously the likelihood of that happening would have been less had Denkinger not screwed the pooch so bad in the first place.
ruckus
@Immanentize
Good luck. People win this battle every day. Your better half can too.
ruckus
@Immanentize:
It is highly likely that he is just that stupid and corrupt.
LAO
@Annie: I’m going to steal that. With proper attribution, of course.
LAO
@Quinerly: Is tell you go ahead, but who isn’t afraid of Steve?
ruckus
@Chet Murthy:
Well it certainly isn’t waving the flag and supporting a candidate who colludes with a foreign power to help him get elected.
Rand Careaga
@TenguPhule:
Pardon me. It was you and Chet Murthy. With this kind of weight of opinion against me, I can scarcely see how any right-thinking person could view my remarks as other than an irresponsible exoneration of the Rooskies’ conduct. But really, this back-and-forth isn’t advancing the thread, so I’ll leave off.
Annie
@catclub:
A lot of the folks upset about this now — like me for instance– were always opposed to U.S. intervention in other countries’ elections too.
SFAW
@Brachiator:
The Cardassians, wise guy.
The Cardassian system of justice, as I understand it, was to declare the Defendant guilty at the start, then hold the trial to show why. And, shortly thereafter, administer justice.
Annie
@LAO:
Enjoy!
And, to all who think no lawyer should defend a Trump because of what the media says abot him:
I was gobsmacked when I started working criminal appeals to read the trial transcripts for cases that had been reported in the media, because the actual cases and allegations were so very different from the newspaper and TV reports. Inevitable I suppose if you try to report hours of testimony in a 2-minute TV report or 6-paragraph story, but it was still amazing. Heck, I worked appeals where the defendant had been acquitted of half the charges because he hadn’t committed the crimes, but the media still reported that as getting off on technicalities.
Before I get flamed — I despise Dolt 45 and all his brood and believe anything bad about them. But my belief is not evidence of a damned thing and does not mean they should be deprived of due process.
Quinerly
@Annie:
I don’t think anyone said anyone should be deprived of due process (although, I didn’t read all the comments, my first comment was while I was at lunch, later went back to work and then checked in). My thoughts were LAO’s friend doesn’t have to represent him and I questioned who would want to. Many attys are refusing to sign on with POTUS. In addition, I learned all heavy hitters in the NY legal profession have represented many Russians. It’s not unusual that Trump Jr’s new atty represented a Russian hacker. Nothing to even give pause.?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Rand Careaga:
Certainly not. It seems now that members of Trump’s campaign, including one of his own sons, have been havinh secret meetings with elements involved with Putin. Not to mention the NRA’s connections to Russia as well, it makes you wonder how deep this thing goes.
I just hate the argument that because the US has done shitty things in the past means we can’t be mad if they’re done to us. We can be and still denounce these methods, no hypocricy garnered.
Rand Careaga
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
As to that, I knew a guy in high school who used to break into cars and boost their tape decks (we’re talking 8-track here). He was furious the first time it happened to him, so no, nothing’s stopping us.
Dman
Ciukd this be the “forged”type of release that Maddow was warning everyone about?