Secretary of State (via):
“We are very glad they are asking for information before making decisions. I wish more federal agencies would ask folks for their opinion and for information before they made decisions,” Secretary of State Wayne Williams said in a press release Thursday.
Williams stated that his office will release voter-roll information that is public under state law but withhold data that is confidential.
From the SOS press release:
State law requires the office to provide a copy of the voter registration list upon request. The publicly available list includes the full name, address, year of birth, political party and vote history of persons registered to vote in the state. It does not contain personally identifiable information such as Social Security numbers, driver’s license numbers, or full dates of birth — and that information will be withheld from the commission.
It is possible to opt out if you feel it would be a threat to you to have that information available.
However, Colorado does have a procedure to allow certain voters to block the release of their address.
“If you believe that you or a member of your household will be exposed to criminal harassment or bodily harm because your voter information is publicly available, you may elect to become a confidential voter,” the official website states.
In a press conference on Wednesday, Colorado’s secretary of state said voters would be required to explain their reason for the request under oath. He said people who typically qualify are domestic violence and/or stalking victims, as well as people with certain careers like law enforcement.
To become a confidential voter, you must go to your local county clerk and recorder’s office, fill out a voter confidentiality form, and pay a $5.
The full press release from the SOS can be found here.
So while many of you (44 states so far) will escape Big Brother – we here in Colorado will not. I will be interested to see what happens to voters in regards to this “commission”. My guess is, the cluster fuck will amount to nothing now, but for our SOS, I don’t think he’s going to be that lucky. And I won’t be surprised if suddenly there is a call to change the current law.
What say you?
Villago Delenda Est
This is essentially what Oregon has agreed to provide, providing that Pence pays $500 for the information like everyone else has to.
Starfish
In some places, people are being told that becoming a confidential voter is not going to opt them out of the list being given to the federal government. You are supposed to go through the County Clerk to opt out, and someone in a local Indivisible group said that they had that experience.
Major Major Major Major
This is what happens when you elect your SoS separately from your Governor.
Mike J
They do have a fasces in their seal.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Ohellno is the state I live in, and thank god Husted said no. What could the Feds do with public info?
Mike in NC
44 states refusing to play Emperor Trump’s voter suppression game? Impressive.
Whereaway
As a fellow Colorado resident, I’ll be pushing for a change to the law, and pushing for a new Secretary of State …
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: I grew up in Colorado and this is honestly the first time I’ve really looked at it, you usually see the state flag.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mike in NC: Are the remaining 6 States some of the Old Confederacy states?
TaMara (HFG)
@Starfish: I assumed it wouldn’t matter at this point because it’s such a short time frame and the chances of the list being updated in time seem slim.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mike J: Which I have no idea why it hasn’t been removed by now. A certain bombastic southern European dictator loved that symbol
Starfish
@TaMara (HFG): That’s how I felt about it too.
trollhattan
Huh, seems the thin air affects some folks differently than others. How did y’all Coloradans happen to elect this SoB (heh) in the first place?
mdblanche
When I tried googling your secretary of state’s name, all the links I got were about a serial killer. Just sayin’.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
They misspelled “NUMMIE.”
Starfish
@Mike J: We can’t decide if we are fascist or the illuminati with the whole Eye of Providence.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Starfish: Cue X-Files theme
Villago Delenda Est
@Starfish: Look at the back of the $1. Illuminati everywhere!
Starfish
@Villago Delenda Est: We have never really discussed The New World Order here. Do you think we could convince more conservatives to read this blog if we talked about it?
MomSense
Maine’s SOS announced something similar last week. Then his office was slammed with calls and emails prompting him to consult with our AG. Now we are not cooperating with the request.
ETA so much thumb fail. Fixed spelling errors.
BC in Illinois
@Mike J:
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
The fasces was on our dime – – the “Winged Liberty Head” (“Mercury”) dime – – from 1916 to 1945.
The elementary school joke (during the Eisenhower era) was that if you turned the dime on its side, you could see a fence, with a pig standing on the top of the fence.
You have to sort of look for it.
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Nobody gave us the chance to “opt out” here in AZ. The bastages.
Josie
Texas’ SOS sent me back an email stating that they would send publicly available info but not private info, pretty much the same as Colorado. I guess that’s about as good as you can expect from Texas.
Starfish
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: The data is public information in Colorado. The opt out option is generally for victims of domestic violence and stalking.
Mike J
Who said State unstaffed was a bad idea?
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170705/10241437723/state-dept-enlists-hollywood-friends-to-start-fake-twitter-fight-over-intellectual-property.shtml
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Starfish: Same here in Ohellno. Just checked, didn’t know before. Was hoping Husted had enough courage to deny both
SiubhanDuinne
Georgia will also be providing voter information, with both alacrity and avidity. And yes, our Secretary of State wants to be our next Governor, why do you ask?
And speaking of Georgia, that name “Wayne Williams” is doing some mighty heavy lifting.
Viva BrisVegas
Doesn’t attaching political affiliation and voting history to personal identification obviate the secret ballot?
Isn’t the secret ballot one of the cornerstones of a modern democracy?
American democracy has still got way too much of the 18th Century in it.
Omnes Omnibus
If it is considered public information in CO, what would be the rationale for refusing a request to provide it?
patroclus
I’m sure that I’m swimming against the tide here, but if the info is already publicly available, I’m not sure what the grand conspiracy is; especially if Colorado (or any other state) charges Kobach for the info like normal. Seriously, nothing whatsoever has been done to investigate or potentially respond to the Russian hacking; and Kobach may well be evil and up to no good, but it seems at least possible that a federal commission could perhaps use this information for positive purposes after he’s gone. Is there something inherently wrong with allowing federal agencies access to this information or do we just trust all the states to run elections as they want?
TaMara (HFG)
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: I thought AZ denied the request.
Steve in the ATL
@Starfish: can we have a separate thread for the Bilderberg group?
SiubhanDuinne
@Starfish:
Now just why would we want to do that?
Major Major Major Major
@Viva BrisVegas:
Vote history just means which elections you cast a ballot in. As for party registration, I believe owing to their tax status and politicking activities, membership has to be public record. But you don’t have to be in a party to vote, and you don’t have to vote for your party’s candidates to stay in the party.
@Omnes Omnibus: To put your thumb in Trump’s eye.
Josie
@Viva BrisVegas: This is exactly what I pointed out to the Texas SOS in my email, for all the good it did. I feel that my privacy in the voting booth is violated by publishing my voting history.
TaMara (HFG)
@patroclus: Who said it was a conspiracy? I said that there would probably be calls to make changes to the law and that the SoS was probably not going to make a lot friends by complying.
SiubhanDuinne
@BC in Illinois:
Holleee crappola, I used to do that All.The.Time. Had completely forgotten about it. Thanks for the blast from the past.
(Am also originally from Illinois, don’t know if that matters.)
Scott S.
If it’s publicly available information, there isn’t any way to prevent it getting sent to Kobach’s group. I could get it, you could get it. There’s plenty of stuff Kobach has requested that can’t be obtained just from the publicly available info.
jharp
“What say you?”
No way should you have to pay the $5. And you should be able to do it online.
Omnes Omnibus
@Josie:
Voting history in this context means which election you voted in not who you voted for.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
You’re adorable. Do you still believe in Santy Claus, too?
The Republicans have been engaging in a massive, nationwide voter suppression effort since at least 2008 and you think this latest attempt to access voter information by party is innocent?
Major Major Major Major
@Scott S.: There’s also plenty of stuff he requested that is easily obtained by filling out a fucking form in many states so I don’t know why they made a big show of asking everybody.
Starfish
@SiubhanDuinne: I didn’t say that I want them to post comments. ;)
Josie
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah. Then I will get off my high horse. ; )
Mnemosyne
So what’s the process in Colorado to recall the Secretary of State? Asking for some friends. ?
Major Major Major Major
@Starfish: More pie for us!
Patricia Kayden
I assume Colorado’s SoS was appointed so he feels comfortable making such a ratched decision. Perhaps in his mind, he’s only accountable to the Governor and not to the people of Colorado.
Villago Delenda Est
@Viva BrisVegas: I believe the “voter history” is “did this person vote in the November 2016 election?” rather than anything more specific than that. This is true in Oregon, where both parties use this info to target their GOTV efforts.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
Spoiler alert: I voted for the Democrat!
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Just one?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mnemosyne: Idiots like NR will still be complaining about how the Demonrat Party just didn’t reach out to morons with IQs below room temp and other halfbaked political strats when they’re thrown from a C-130 out in the Gulf of Mexico, 1500 feet above sea level
Patricia Kayden
@Josie: And by Kobach knowing my party affiliation. This is a man who is dedicated to purging voter rolls. It’s a travesty that he is gathering all of this information to do what he did in Kansas to the entire U.S.
Starfish
@Scott S.: Yes, but you can charge them to compile the information nicely. You can make them scrape your website. You could send them images inside Excel spreadsheets so interns have to type the information in all over again to make it readable. You don’t have to put a bow tie on it and hand it to them. There is publicly available information that you can only acquire by going to a local state office and paying for it. How publicly available is it?
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: each time. Except once back in the eighties when I voted for a third party candidate over some member of the Ford family (not Harold, but his dad or uncle or cousin or something). My candidate’s platform was “kill all the white people” but that was preferable to whichever corrupt Ford that was.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Who’s NR? Oh, the pie guy. He really likes pie alot, talks about it all the time.
SiubhanDuinne
@Starfish:
So you didn’t! But try and stop ’em!
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne:
Et tu, SD? You’re better than this.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: and just once?
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s not really “membership” in the party in the sense of somebody who goes to the monthly meetings and pays the $20 fee. Most states register party preference to keep track of which ballot to give you in the primary.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Coulda been any, coulda been every.
I used to have to report to Ottawa, and the Embassy in Washington, about politicians and elected officials at local and state levels. Tennessee was one of the states in our territory, and I remember nearly ripping my hair out by the roots trying to come up with semi-diplomatic language to describe that family.
#gladtoberetired
Major Major Major Major
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I like this alot.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: We’re not in Chicago.
Roger Moore
@Viva BrisVegas:
The voting history is which elections you voted in; they can’t reveal how you voted. That kind of information is routinely provided to political parties so they can check who has and hasn’t voted and GOTV on election day.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Revised and copy-edited:
BO-ring.
Mike J
@Scott S.:
Pretty much every state will sell campaigns the voter rolls, although not with the detail trump wants. In that sense they are “public”. Of course it’s not cheap, and I don’t think the feds have offered anything in return.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: how can we know, without location information on every comment?
woodrowfan
@BC in Illinois: a RWNJ relative once told me there was a picture of a ship on the dime. When I doubted it it showed me FDR’s portrait and said “see, it’s a US Destroyer.” I told him no, it says “In God We Trust” and that was him.
FlyingToaster
Time for a constitutional amendment; Massachusetts already has the working language, written IIRC by those rascally Adams cousins.
“Voting records are not public information.”
Keep it simple.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: You have my word on it. I’ve never lied to you before (as far as you know).
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
Perhaps M^4 keeps a dossier on every poster and noted that I am originally from Chicago. And there is nothing creepy about keeping such dossiers!
Hungry Joe
When I walk precincts I have a list of every Democratic voter in the neighborhood. The info includes the person’s address, age, whether there was a request for an absentee ballot, and how many times, in the last five elections, he or she has voted. There’s the same info on every other member of the household who’s a registered voter, and his or her party affiliation — even if not a Dem. (A lot are DS, “Decline to state.” And a lot say they are A.I. — American Independent Party, a right-wing nut group. People check it off because they think it just means “Independent.”)
So it’s not as if any of this stuff is secret. Still, this gang’s requesting it makes me twitchy.
Schlemazel
@Steve in the ATL:
And another for the Rothschilds!
These numbnuts have been around a long time, My first exposure was in the early 60s
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
Because they want to make a big show. Some of this is about suppressing the vote, but a lot of it is grandstanding. Some of the grandstanding is to assuage Trump’s fragile ego, but a lot of it is about carrying the voter fraud narrative so they can convince gullible Republican voters that They’re Doing Something.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: And I am originally from the suburbs. You are right – not creepy at all.
woodrowfan
@FlyingToaster: neither party will like that. they both depend on seeing who voted in what primary or party registration to know who to target in their GOTV efforts.
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
Tied to other meta data I bet I could easily guess who you voted for
SiubhanDuinne
@BC in Illinois:
Did you ever do the thing of folding the dollar bill so George Washington looked like a mushroom? That was kind of amusing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel: The Democrat? All you need is the city I live in and you have a good idea.
Steve in the ATL
@Schlemazel:
Dude, that’s too easy. He’s been very open about his love for Jill Stein.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: I remember that!
@Schlemazel: and…?
Schlemazel
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you want to suppress votes you want finer comb than that. While the Twin Cities is fairly blue there are pockets of blue. WIth a zip code, info available through the census and a bit from google a clever operator could go house by house.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the ATL:
That’s Dr. Jill Stein.
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne:
You’re high, too? Awesome!
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Oh, dude, you should SEE the veins in the back of my hand. It’s like the blood flow is pulsing and it’s like the UNIVERSE, man. It’s all, like, for the first time, I grok that we are all connected, like for real, dude.
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: She lets me call her Jill when I dream about her at night.
Peking Man
@woodrowfan: Of course the Canadian dime does have a ship on both sides. QEII on the face and the Bluenose on the obverse.
Jeffro
@Villago Delenda Est:
Perhaps there’s a reason for this that I’m missing, but I’m hard-pressed to think of why it’s the public’s or either/any party’s business if/when I voted, just on general principles.
More specifically, and I know it’s nearly tinfoil hat territory, but I think some of that kind of data helped the Cambridge Analytica folks figure out who might have been…well…tinfoil-hatted with fake news (about Hillz) into coming out of the woodwork for once and voting for Trumpov (if they really did come out).
But in any case: Americans ought to be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18, given a government-vetted ID, eligible for jury duty, all of it.
No One You Know
@Mnemosyne:Prezaxctly. For instance, if I wanted to assemble a 50-state strategy for voter suppression, I would first get all the publicly available info from the states, then, like a good data jacket, use what I know to find out more info. I would get a couple of pollsters, a data analyst, a DBA, and a political strategist, and a project manager, and I would be able to tell the field teams something useful in six months. It’s not rocket science, people.
Jeffro
On another note, VP Mike Pence is tweeting about how wonderful it is – “Real News”, as he puts it – that “36 states are agreeing to or are considering providing publicly available voter data to @POTUS Election Integrity Commission”. Parse that statement as you will…the man’s technically more corrupt than Trumpov, as he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro:
Well, the state has to keep track of it for balloting purposes, maybe it’s a public records issue. I honestly don’t know.
Not tinfoil hat territory at all, that’s part of how they targeted voters, campaigns do it all the time.
TaMara (HFG)
@FlyingToaster: ding-ding-ding. We have a winner.
CZanne
@Omnes Omnibus: That Kobach is a lazy git who is trying to show he’s a big shot compared to his peers? That’s my read on this. For Colorado, it is public information for the most part, and can be downloaded as an excel file from the SOS office website. Which means Kobach could have had an admin pull the documents from each state that conforms to open records in about 3 days of downloading and data massage. But noooooo, Kobach needs to show he’s more important than all those other SoS and make them do the work for him.
There’s personal bullshit all over this, and it’s Kobach’s usual showboating MO.
I do not approve of Wayne Williams and think he’s fairly crappy as an SoS, but he is following the law, and that law does more good than harm (it’s the same law that keeps corruption to a minimum and allows journalists to poke at just about anything that takes their fancy). I am personally irritated because I do not meet the requirements for confidentiality (i have never, as an independent adult, gotten a restraining order against the Asshat, so do not meet the domestic violence threshold) but the Asshat seems to have mutated into a bitter online MRA troll without the motivation to come stalk in person, so it’s probably not strictly necessary.
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, previous campaigns hadn’t done it with targeted social media fake news stories, for one. And most campaigns don’t waste time with occasional voters. The real ‘tinfoil hat’ piece on my part, I’ll admit, is that I suspect they added in (via hacking/fraud) the votes of very-occasional R voters, especially in a few key states. There just seem to be too many coincidences, too many similar margins of victory, even the targeted ‘recount’ efforts that managed to both a) mess up the records and b) supposedly, publicly, disprove any issues in those states.
We’ll see what turns up. In the meantime, I admit I have no hard evidence, and therefore award myself only half a tinfoil hat. ;)
japa21
Here is why they want the voting history. All they need to do is find one name where it showed the person voted, but the person with that name was deceased. Just one. For example, my MIL died October 28, 2012. However, she would show up as having voted because she did so by absentee ballot.
But all they need is one name. That would be enough to convince the neanderthals which is the GOP base to rise up and demand a national voter registry and national ID program even more stringent than what you find in various states.
Steve in the ATL
@japa21:
Any tips on how to make this happen? Asking for, uh, myself. And possibly my wife.
thruppence
In reporting on this, our local Denver CBS affiliate pointedly avoided any mention of the election integrity / voter suppression aspect, which is the central controversy here. Are they partisan, or terrified of being accused of partisanship by Republicans?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
You should seek professional help.
Steve in the ATL
@?BillinGlendaleCA: what about when Dr. Jill and Gary Johnson make an Omnes sandwich?
nvm–calling a therapist now
Omnes Omnibus
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They have restraining orders.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: I’m going with: they are stupid and lazy.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
My dad used to sing a song, the lyrics of which were:
Mother-in-law, she is dead,
She got caught in a folding bed,
Oom tiddy oom toom, oom tiddy oom toom,
Toom toom.
Ever since my mother-in-law’s been dead,
Folks all come around
To buy that folding bed.
For they all have mother-in-laws, they say,
Oom tiddy oom toom, oom tiddy oom toom,
How’d they get that way?
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne: god bless your old man
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
If we ever meet in person, I shall sing it to you. It needs to be preserved.
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne:
Unlikely, considering the geographic distance. But enjoy lunch in Roswell!
Starfish
Voter Fraud Commission may have violated law.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Wait, what? You’re probably five miles MAX from where I’m sitting right now. Get away with your bad self.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
Yes, I intend to!
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne: you can wave to my neighborhood as you’re driving to Le Bistro. But I’m not hurt….
Starfish
Michael Chertoff is writing about why this is a bad idea.
Miss Bianca
I have to say, I’d have liked to see the CO SoS come out with some variation on the theme of “the Federal Government can pay for this information just like everyone else has to, and until we see the check we’re not handing over anything.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca:
That really is the best answer where the info is available to the public. I also assume that there are exceptions for scholarly research – for example if I was doing a paper on infrequent voters in WI, I would think that there is a way I could get info without ponying up 12 or 15K (whatever it actually is here). Too late in the evening for me to be arsed to look it up.
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: I didn’t say it was innocent. Putting words into people’s mouths is not a particularly effective form of argument. There is nothing inherently wrong in letting a federal agency have access to voter information – it could be used to generate evidence of voter intimidation or voter suppression. And it could be used to potentially counter foreign hacking. And this is especially the case if the information is available to the public anyway (for fees or scholarly research). Having only the states responsible for election data is the sort of situation which led to Bush v. Gore and the voter suppression efforts pre-Voting Rights Act. Which is especially important now that the pre-clearance provisions of the VRA have been nullified. Do you have any real arguments?
Steve in the ATL
@patroclus:
You’ve never taken a deposition, have you? “Would you agree that…” or “So what you’re saying is…”
And BTW if you’re ever getting deposed, don’t answer a question like that until your lawyer has had a chance to kick you under the table, object for the record, and ask for a smoke break before you answer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I once had a “coughing fit” during a depo.
FlyingToaster
@woodrowfan: You can purchase voter registration contact info (Name, mailing address, party), from the town of registration, if your party/candidate registers with the SoC’s Election Division. Every Democratic Town Committee does so, as well as the State Democratic Party. When Romney was Governor, his campaign crowd purchased the reg info from all 350 municipalities and snail-mail spammed us.
Towns do NOT give this out for free, and you can’t get access without being registered with the Commonwealth. No exceptions.
Bill Galvin (our Secretary of the Commonwealth, aka “The Prince of Darkness”) invited Kobach to send someone up, register with the SoC, and go around to all 350 municipalities and purchase the info.
And for how to make voting have more “integrity”? Smaller precincts, voter ID only if you do voting-day registration, paper ballots and scanners. Recounts are done on the high school gym floor, with the basketball camera broadcasting on local access cable. I watched that with an alderman’s race back in Somerville; the scanner said won by 8, and by damn, the ballots stacked on the floor of the gym showed won by fucking 8.
Precincts hereabouts are ~2500-3000 registered voters. Inside of 128, you can almost always walk to your polling place (mine is 4 blocks uphill). Watertown has 2 venues that house 2 precincts each; it’s never been a problem for people to figure out which table to go to (or be redirected without a fuss).
Early voting here is at Town Hall, in the main clerks office in the basement, same as absentee ballots. In a town of 4 square miles, with 12 precincts total, it’s doable. Even in Somerville, with 4 square miles and 21 precincts, it works. At the close of early voting, early votes are scanned into their respective precinct machines; at the close of voting day (8pm), the absentee ballots received are scanned in as well. Our town usually reports results around 9:30 pm, but if there’s a larger number of absentees (2016 with a record number of overseas/military ballots), we might not report before midnight. Ballots are preserved for a year in case of recounts, then sent to be recycled for the next round of ballots.
This stuff is all within the realm of “brute force solutions”, which make it well night impossible to hack, let alone fuck up irretrievably.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
Theoretically? If you completely ignore Kris Kobach’s and Hans Von Spakovsky’s long histories of voter suppression specifically carried out to benefit the Republican Party then, sure, in theory there’s nothing wrong with it.
However, we don’t live in a theoretical world where theoretical government officials might want this information for theoretical programs that have nothing to do with voter suppression. We live in the real world, where Kobach and Von Spakovsky have spent their entire political careers trying to prevent Democrats from voting.
So, sure, let’s go ahead and hand identifiable voter information over to known vote suppressors so they can tinker with it at will. What could possibly go wrong?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: You are being unfair. First of all, much of the info requested is public info and available to people if they request it and possibly pay a fee. Second, the commenter specifically said that it may be useful for subsequent admins.
Brachiator
@patroclus:
I don’t know. It would be kinda nice for the federal agency to demonstrate that there was some purpose for the requested data. “We might come up with a valid reason for this request…someday,” is not sufficient.
Steve in the ATL
@Mnemosyne:
QFT
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Then let them make the request and pay the fee like everyone else.
A knife that Ted Bundy used to kill someone may be useful for someone to use in their kitchen someday, so why be squeamish about the uses Bundy put it to?
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: The catch of course is the full info they’re asking for is a blatant violation of many states’ privacy laws. These people are not honest brokers. They are seeking to get rid of pesky people who won’t vote for Rethuglicans.