Point, Counterpoint

Point:

Dana Loesch, the St. Louis, MO based conservative commentator, made the following membership drive (I think it’s to promote joining, but it’s hard to tell) video for the National Rifle Association back in April. For some reason it floated below the surface until it got noticed on social media this week.

I think Josh Marshall’s analysis is pretty accurate:

Counterpoint:

(Image 1: Ryan Payne from a 2014 Missoula Independent cover/profile)

This past week Federal prosecutors in Oregon made sentencing request for some of the people that followed Ammon Bundy in occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. The Oregonian reports:

The government will recommend Ryan Payne receive three years and five months in custody, the longest sentence of those who entered guilty pleas to conspiracy, Gabriel said.

Payne is still facing Federal charges in Nevada related to his actions in the Bunkerville standoff. As The Missoula Independent reports, was:

On April 7, Ryan Payne, a 30-year-old Iraq War veteran, packed his ’93 Jeep Cherokee with two sleeping bags, two cots, the rucksack he’d more or less lived out of during his five years in the military and a Rock River Arms Operator LAR-15. He was on his way to the southern Nevada desert to defend the oppressed from the tyrannical force of the federal government, and he knew he might have to fight.

As people came, Payne emerged—reluctantly, he says—as the militia’s de facto leader.

“I’m an advisor and coordinator for OMA,” Payne says, “and I was Mr. Bundy’s militia liaison. He would tell me what he had planned, and then I would advise him as to what the militia could accomplish in support of that.”

He organized the militia into units and pursued the objectives he and Bundy had agreed upon. As he set about planning a strategy for accomplishing those goals, Payne drew heavily on his Army experience.

Stay frosty!

 

308 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Before anyone asks, here’s what the Armed Intelligentsia had to say:
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c.....digest-59/

  2. 2
    LAO says:

    I’m still pissed off about the acquittals. Harrumph!

  3. 3
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I know. It’s why I sent you that mixed caliber of ammunition gift basket from Militias R Us to cheer you up. I also enrolled you in their weapon of the month club!

  4. 4

    Sadly, the Missoula Independent was recently acquired by Lee Enterprises, the corporate media entity that owns the big daily papers in pretty much every population center in Montana. https://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/missoula/you-know-that-lee-bought-the-indy-do-you-know-why/Content?oid=3887004

  5. 5
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I can’t wait. In honor of July 4th — I’m expecting a beautiful, new AR-15 (with stars and stripes, natch).

  6. 6
  7. 7
    Alain the site fixer says:

    @Cris (without an H): I’m shocked that Lee could buy a thing! They were worth fractions of pennies on the dollars in the early 2010s and were expected to sell to Gannett or someone else with lots of money to underwrite their losses.

  8. 8
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yesssss! That’s what I’m talking about!

  9. 9
    MomSense says:

    @LAO:

    Same here! I’m still fuming about it.

  10. 10
    pvmike says:

    So am I a arugula-eating special snowflake or a rabid left-wing monster that you need to take up arms against and join the NRA so you have a safe space to hang with other Rambo cosplayers?

    I am also still not happy about the acquittals.

  11. 11
    GregB says:

    These weak, effeminate, surrendering, romper wearing, arugula eating, latte drinking, Volvo driving, metrosexual liberals terrify me.

    Where is my 50 caliber Desert Eagle to help put me in my safe space.

  12. 12
    Alain the site fixer says:

    Hey I just figured out why my mobile site edits aren’t showing – I’m not looking at my test server. See y’all later!

  13. 13
    Betty Cracker says:

    That Loesch video is absolutely unhinged. According to her, the reason it bobbed to the surface this week is that the NRA started a Facebook page and posted it. I don’t know if that’s true or not, since Loesch is a habitual liar. Unfortunately, though she is a crackpot, she’s not a fringe figure with a podcast and an all-militia goon following. I’ve seen her on CNN and mainstream network programs.

  14. 14
    The Moar You Know says:

    @Adam L Silverman: With Green Tip ammo to boot. It’s a little overkill but I wouldn’t toss it out of the safe.

  15. 15
    TenguPhule says:

    Has anyone commented yet on the FBI getting knocked for apparently lying about part of the Oregon standoff shooting?

    FFS, they really didn’t need that kind of shit to give ammunition (pardon the pun) to the Fascist scum.

  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @LAO:

    In honor of July 4th — I’m expecting a beautiful, new AR-15 (with stars and stripes, natch).

    Everyone knows the real patriots will have an image of Barechested Putin on a charging warbear on their rifles.

  17. 17
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you’re such a good friend!

  18. 18
    TenguPhule says:

    That NRA vid is highly reminiscent of the nazi propaganda videos interspersing video of rats and filth with hook nosed Jews.

    Tell me again how we’re supposed to peacefully coexist with these people.

  19. 19
    LAO says:

    @TenguPhule: The agent was charged in a 5 count indictment. He should be convicted for his sheer stupidity in giving these nut jobs ammunition.

  20. 20
    EBT says:

    @TenguPhule: reading what the actual charge is, it has nothing to do with Noted Child Abuser “LaVoy” Finnicum being rightfully gunned down. It has t do with an overzealous agent shooting at the car while it was moving and then lying about it.

  21. 21
    SFAW says:

    That NRA vid is highly reminiscent of the nazi propaganda videos interspersing video of rats and filth with hook nosed Jews.

    Juden und Muslime ‘raus, Tod macht frei, baby!

    — Big fucking tapestry (a gift to him from Shitgibbon) in Oberst Bannon’s office

  22. 22
    Yarrow says:

    That video is unhinged. It’s just “they,” “they,” “they” who are trying to hurt you. Over and over. Propaganda designed to create fear. Does a good job of that.

    Somewhat off topic, but it is an open thread, found this very interesting:

    A room full of "wow"s after @HouseAppropsGOP adopted this AUMF repeal amendment by @RepBarbaraLee pic.twitter.com/VxlvQn9d95— Jennifer Scholtes (@JAscholtes) June 29, 2017

    Wow is right. A Republican House committee is moving to strip Trump of authorization to use military force, which has been law since 9/11 https://t.co/ICrBZc0fpt— Christina Wilkie (@christinawilkie) June 29, 2017

    So…even Republicans think Trump is too crazy to have unlimited access to using military force?

  23. 23
    EBT says:

    @TenguPhule: As I get older, it starts to become clear that far right conservatives reject the inherent idea of peaceful coexistence. I feel no need to apply it to those that reject it. Bigotry for the bigots, intolerance for the intolerant.

  24. 24
    LAO says:

    That NRA video with @DLoesch essentially says, "I'm a fucking coward who shits myself when non-white people protest" https://t.co/NdQDF6WeYn— The Rude Pundit (@rudepundit) June 29, 2017

  25. 25
    The Moar You Know says:

    Tell me again how we’re supposed to peacefully coexist with these people.

    @TenguPhule: They’re why I still own guns. I’m deeply afraid that they will not be willing to peacefully co-exist with us for much longer.

  26. 26

    @pvmike: and @GregB:
    It’s about whether you’re black. White liberals are weak and effeminate. Blacks are raging man-apes with the minds of spoiled toddlers. Those are the tropes conservatives think about. They do allow rare exceptions, but that’s the idea.

  27. 27
    Karen says:

    I grew up in family that hunted and 22 for killing vermin; we used to get a lot of rabid small animals, but there were rules. All weapons were adult only and no clue where Dad kept the bolt to his hunting rifle; we had to pass a safety course taught by Marine in family before allowed to even touch family weapon.
    I have a “friend” who bought her twin 6 year old twin girls pink rifles; they live in suburbs and feel the need to keep themselves safe from anyone not white or straight.

  28. 28
    Repatriated says:

    @Yarrow:

    So…even Republicans think Trump is too crazy to have unlimited access to using military force?

    First thought: Yep

    Second thought: There’s a more open-ended replacement already written and waiting for a precipitating event.

    Third thought: Declaring victory and going home.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Betty Cracker: I first saw it referenced in regard to that Facebook page. But I also follow/read/track the firearms sites and there was no mention on the largest one, which I linked to in comment 1, until this week. I think it simply got lost in the shuffle of the NRA’s youtube page. Apparently it’s part of a NRA video series entitled Freedom’s Safest Place:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyaSPxNidLLuxQRIGMUUFi_6s8xLoBYxO

  30. 30
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The NRA is a terrorist organization. Full stop.

  31. 31
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Yep, saw the reporting on that.

  32. 32

    You know, what struck me was how angry she is. She’s really seething there. I swear, conservatives pretty much have free rein now. They can do anything they want. All liberals can do right now is speak, and yet it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about? I really don’t understand this.

  33. 33
    TenguPhule says:

    @EBT:

    It has t do with an overzealous agent shooting at the car while it was moving and then lying about it.

    Which is a problem. A bad one. Their credibility does not need this. Especially now.

  34. 34
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Moar You Know: I’m not a big fan of the fancy paint jobs. Some of the art and artistry is excellent, but if I’m looking for color, then dark earth or coyote or burnt bronze is about as far as I’m willing to go.

  35. 35
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cris (without an H):
    This is news to me. I wasn’t aware that Montana had population centres.

  36. 36
    EBT says:

    @Karen: that family needs to have both its children and it’s guns removed now.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: That’s me: Mr. Thoughtful…

  38. 38
    EBT says:

    @TenguPhule: it sure is a problem, but Finicum got what he needed more than anything else in the world. And he is already forgotten, just like his Idol george lincoln rockwell.

  39. 39
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “…with half a dozen magazines for you!”

  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    @Karen:

    I have a “friend” who bought her twin 6 year old twin girls pink rifles; they live in suburbs and feel the need to keep themselves safe from anyone not white or straight.

    How does she think that is even going to work? Somebody is going to wear a black hat at a distance and stand still to be shot like in a video game? The children I’ll feel sorry for when the inevitable happens, the mother, sorry but fuck her.

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @EBT: Yep. And the quick release of the actual overhead surveillance video went a long way to keeping the conspiracies from spreading very far in this case. There are some dead enders that believe he was forced on his knees and executed with a shot from behind, but even most of his supporters didn’t buy into the conspiracy theories once they saw the video.

  42. 42
    efgoldman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Blacks are raging man-apes with the minds of spoiled toddlers. Those are the tropes conservatives think about.

    And as we’ve noted before, the worst racists live where there aren’t any black people!

  43. 43
    TenguPhule says:

    @EBT:

    And he is already forgotten, just like his Idol george lincoln rockwell.

    You haven’t been keeping an ear to the militia gunnuts then. They’re making him a (figuratively) fucking patron saint murdered by “evil liberal conspiracy controlling the government”. This is only going to feed that mythos.

  44. 44
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    the worst racists live where there aren’t any black people!

    Feature, not a bug.

  45. 45
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Yarrow:
    Trump is too crazy to have access to his own Twitter account, let alone to the military might of the Yew Ess Aay.

  46. 46
    efgoldman says:

    @Repatriated:

    Third thought: Declaring victory and going home.

    Fourth thought: Shitgibbon, like most recent presidents, will send troops where and when he wants, AUMF or no.
    The only power congress has is the actual power of the purse. Absent that, it’s “nyah, nyah stop me!” time.

  47. 47
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The first time I was at all aware of her was several years ago, when she endorsed (on national television, CNN I think) news reports that Marines in Afghanistan had killed several Taliban and then peed on their corpses. Loesch’s response was basically “I’d drop trou and pee on them too.” Hadn’t heard her name before that, and had forgotten all about her until this thread. Now I would like to return to that state of ignorance.

  48. 48
    TenguPhule says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    They can do anything they want. All liberals can do right now is speak, and yet it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about? I really don’t understand this.

    The answer is there in your own question.

    They want compliance. Or us dead. They’re just not picky over which one it is.

  49. 49
    lgerard says:

    Dana Loesch should stick with her day job, spokesmodel for the supplement scam SuperBeets

  50. 50
    Shalimar says:

    @TenguPhule: The vast majority of them are even more terrified than they are angry. They aren’t going out to participate in any military cosplay, though they will cheer it on. How many assorted crazies actually attended Malheur compared to the number who talked about it? They want a war, but they aren’t going to fight in it.

  51. 51
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    The only power congress has is the actual power of the purse. Absent that, it’s “nyah, nyah stop me!” time.

    “They have passed their budget, now let them come and try to enforce it!”

    /Yeah, I know Trump isn’t able to say that because the words are too big for him, but that’s what its going to come down to in the end.

  52. 52
    LAO says:

    @Karen:

    I have a “friend” who bought her twin 6 year old twin girls pink rifles; they live in suburbs and feel the need to keep themselves safe from anyone not white or straight.

    I learned to shoot at a very young age (around 7 or so) and the thought of “pink” weapons enrages me. Guns aren’t toys and gun manufactures shouldn’t be striving to make them more toy like! I really hate people right now. Harrumph (2d this thread).

  53. 53
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: I was running down some of the data underlying Seth Stephens-Davidowitz’s recent book Everybody Lies, and one of his supporting datasets was an analysis of Nielsen DMA’s (TV markets) sorted by prevalence of racist Google searches. Tops on the list, IIRC, was Morgantown, WV. Second – Utica, NY. Utica!

  54. 54
    Westyny says:

    @Betty Cracker: Betty, I may be your most ardent anonymous admirer, but I have to respectfully disagree: she is a crackpot. The fact that she is occasionally seen on CNN says more about the network and the news media than it does about her claim to sanity or, at least, probity.

  55. 55
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve seen her on CNN and mainstream network programs.

    Pretty much anyone can be seen on CNN since they have no filter or standards but I get your point. Ms. Loesch is a typical Rightwing extremist. I’m surprised that Trump hasn’t picked her for a plump position.

  56. 56
    Shalimar says:

    @lgerard: That SuperBeets scam doctor looks super skeevy. I wouldn’t buy a used car from him. What I wonder: Is that the look they were casting for, or was he the best they could get?

  57. 57
    TenguPhule says:

    @Shalimar:

    They want a war, but they aren’t going to fight in it.

    They will, as long as they can hide in the dark and assume they will never get caught.

  58. 58
    Quinerly says:

    OT: Bloody Bill Kristol has just tweeted back at the POTUS, “You are a pig. Sincerely, Bill Kristol.”

  59. 59
    Shalimar says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Loesch famously sued Breitbart to get out of her contract and basically accused them of indentured servitude with their employees. She still has an audience and does very well because there are myriad funding sources in wingnut land, but I doubt she is highly thought of by the Bannons and Priebuses who do the Trump administration hiring.

  60. 60
    TenguPhule says:

    @Quinerly:

    “You are a pig. Sincerely, Bill Kristol.”

    Pigs across the nation promptly filed a libel suit against Bill Kristol.

  61. 61
    sherparick says:

    @Betty Cracker: A grifter gotta grift.@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Resentment and anger are a kind of drug physiologically, firing up the body with endorphin. As in so much, George Orwell captured the purpose of group exercise in hate.

    …The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretence was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one’s will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic. And yet the rage that one felt was an abstract, undirected emotion which could be switched from one object to another like the flame of a blowlamp.[1] ”

    ….Within the book (1984), the purpose of the Two Minutes Hate is said to satisfy the citizens’ subdued feelings of angst and hatred from leading such a wretched, controlled existence. By re-directing these subconscious feelings away from the Oceanian government and toward external enemies (which may not even exist), the Party minimises subversive thought and behavior….”

  62. 62
    Karen says:

    @EBT: they are “good church going christians” most of the men even conceal carry to church services to keep their families “safe”
    when I commented to her about poor choice of gift for spoiled 6 year olds, she unfriended me on facebook and blocked me there and email
    personally I believe that gun makers should not be making child sized weapons in colors and pushing them as christmas gifts; these are the people who vote for idiots and are proud members of NRA

  63. 63
    jimmiraybob says:

    Given how much of their frothing vocal effluent comes directly from their gut via their asses, I would think that a more accurate fighting anthem would be, The Clenched Sphincter of Abdominal Distress. But that’s just me.

  64. 64
    Mart says:

    My town seems so nice yet it produces nasty pieces of work like the Gateway Pundit, Phyllis Schlafly, and Dana Loesch. Must be something in the air.

  65. 65
    Bobby Thomson says:

    What a bunch of pu5513s.

  66. 66
    Karen says:

    @LAO: I learned to shoot at young age, no clue how young, but that was only with an adult supervising and wasn’t allowed to handle rifle without supervision until I could prove I knew it was for killing not for “fun and games”

  67. 67
    Bill says:

    I had no idea the actress from Law & Order SVU had such fucked up ideas.

  68. 68
    LAO says:

    @Karen: Me, too. Strict supervision and definitely taught not a toy.

  69. 69
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Mart: and Darren Wilson.

  70. 70
    trnc says:

    Ah, yes, the threat of liberals who oppress poor and middle class gun owners by lowering their taxes and trying to make it more difficult for actual crazy people to get guns.

  71. 71
    Quinerly says:

    @TenguPhule:
    I still find it amazing that 4 MSNBC shows have covered the tweet without repeating what Trump said. BTW McCain is “embarrassed” by the tweet. Another Repug Rep needs “context.”

  72. 72
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Westyny: She’s definitely a crackpot, but she’s not as fringe as she deserves to be, was what I was attempting to convey. I can remember a time when an unhinged video like that would get someone blacklisted by so-called MSM outlets. Now I’m afraid it might make her even more a staple of news shows.

  73. 73

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    All liberals can do right now is speak, and yet it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about? I really don’t understand this.

    They’re angry because they haven’t been able to stop history and make it turn around and run backward. Whites continue to shrink as a percentage of the population. LGBTQ rights continue to advance, both in the courts and in public opinion. Liberals are fighting back instead of rolling over and doing everything they demand. They may have “won” the election, but “winning” just highlights how little power the government has to do what they really want.

  74. 74
    TenguPhule says:

    @Quinerly:

    I still find it amazing that 4 MSNBC shows have covered the tweet without repeating what Trump said.

    Baby steps, first the tweets, then the actual white house press releases.

    BTW McCain is “embarrassed” by the tweet.

    The sooner we can do a congo line on Mr. MavericyMcMaverick’s grave, the better.

  75. 75
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Shalimar: That’s why I find all this talk about imminent civil war a bit silly, tbh. I live among NRA nitwits. Most of them are chickenshits whom I could easily vanquish with my broom if they ever invaded my porch to declare war.

  76. 76
    TenguPhule says:

    @Roger Moore:

    but “winning” just highlights how little power the government has to do what they really want.

    It has the power, but not the “will” to do what must be done, in their eyes.

    And we all know what inevitably comes from that line of thinking.

  77. 77
    Quinerly says:

    @Mart: Moved from NC to St. Louis for law school in 1982. Love the city and live a couple of blocks from A-B. (Poco gets to see Clydesdales almost everyday on our walks). With all that said, I was appalled by the racism here in 1982. Much more than the part of the South I grew up in. Still a very divided city/county.

  78. 78
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I live among NRA nitwits. Most of them are chickenshits whom I could easily vanquish with my broom if they ever invaded my porch to declare war.

    That’s because you’re looking at them face to face.

    In the dark, from behind, with masks to obscure their face3s, that’s an entirely different story.

    The NRA are fucking goblins, in every sense of the word.

  79. 79
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Most of them are chickenshits whom I could easily vanquish with my broom if they ever invaded my porch to declare war.

    Ah, Betty, little as I would like to think of your privacy being invaded so rudely, I have to admit that the image of you thwacking these maroons with your broom hollering, “Git! Git!” is utterly priceless and delicious.

  80. 80
    LAO says:

    "What could we possibly do about Donald Trump" shrieks party with every option to do something about Donald Trump.— Cassandra (@ChrisWarcraft) June 29, 2017

  81. 81
    LAO says:

    "If only someone could stop this leopard from eating people's faces" says man with leopard leashed on choke chain.— Cassandra (@ChrisWarcraft) June 29, 2017

  82. 82
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Karen:
    I submitted a reply to your earlier comment but FYWP eated it.

    It was just to say that one of these guns-for-kids manufacturers, Crickett Arms, used to have on its website a photo gallery of happy kids (all of them white, as I recall from my one quite upsetting look at the photos) and their rifles.

  83. 83
    Quinerly says:

    @LAO:
    Sorta like those leopards and those faces.😈

  84. 84
    Quinerly says:

    @LAO:
    Looks like someone got there first. Thanks for my badly needed smile.

  85. 85
    Citizen_X says:

    @Betty Cracker: Still, fuck the NRA for (among myriad other things) associating with that chunk of lunacy. I know, I know, “You post one deranged eliminationist video to your armed members, and everyone goes nuts!”

  86. 86
    Tuna says:

    That ad and the Muslim ban are the beginning of the end of tourism this summer. Trump is walling us in.

  87. 87
    LAO says:

    @Quinerly: Chris Kluwe is a national treasure (especially on twitter).

  88. 88
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I also enrolled you in their weapon of the month club!

    Surprise July arrival: a 5-pound canned ham. Thunk!

  89. 89
    trollhattan says:

    @Quinerly:
    Bloody Bill always-wrong Kristol? I am tres conflicted.

  90. 90
    Karen says:

    @TenguPhule: I have no idea, but both she and husband conceal carry to work (she is dental hygienist). Before she blocked me she bragged about her girls getting their guns when a black man ran through the neighborhood

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s her. Those Marines were disciplined. I think there was at least one court martial.

  92. 92
    Citizen_X says:

    @LAO:

    “What could we possibly do about Donald Trump” shrieks party with every option to do something about Donald Trump.

    How do you solve a problem like The Donnnaaaallddd…

  93. 93
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lgerard: It worked for Gilligan!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbijKSwfC2U

  94. 94
    trollhattan says:

    @LAO:
    This Chris Kluwe? I keep this rant bookmarked for times I’m feeling low.

  95. 95
    Karen says:

    @Betty Cracker: I figured they would do civil war about the way they do deer hunting, get drunk and throw lead everywhere; I stopped deer hunting when almost got shot by drunk road hunters.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    LAO says:

    @trollhattan: Yes! Follow him on twitter @ChrisWarcraft. You will not regret it.

    ETA: Thanks for the link — I actually missed it when he posted.

  98. 98
    Karen says:

    @Amir Khalid: yes, and places like walmart still carry pink in small size

  99. 99
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tuna:

    That ad and the Muslim ban are the beginning of the end of tourism this summer. Trump is walling us in.

    At this point I’m grateful that the crazy white people are a really really tiny minority in our state. And that we have some of the strictest firearm laws in the country.

    Maybe Japan can still take us in.

  100. 100
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Karen: I’m a dental hygienist, and I’ll be damned if I can figure out how I’d be able to get my gloves off, run to where my purse is in a locker, and get a gun out if I managed to even notice a threat while I was concentrating on my job. Granted, I’ve had a few patients in my time where I would have loved to have threatened them with something other than my magnified but withering stare. Pro tip: don’t be an asshole to someone who is working inside your mouth with a selection of very sharp instruments. Just a hint.

    I’ve said it before here but I will say it again: dentists as a group tend be to right wing assholes. If you find a liberal DDS (like the lovely man I work for), send your friends to them too.

  101. 101
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I can’t believe it took two harrumphs, before someone posted that link.

  102. 102
    TenguPhule says:

    @trollhattan:

    Bloody Bill always-wrong Kristol? I am tres conflicted.

    Still wrong. He’s libeling pigs.

  103. 103
  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I almost did it for the first one, but wanted to see if anyone else did first.

  105. 105
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I’ve noticed the same thing. Conservatives aren’t enjoying Trump’s domination of Washington as much as our side enjoyed President Obama’s 8 years. I loved the Obama years!! My pets and hubby probably thought I was crazy because I would be doing cheer routines every time President Obama accomplished something big. I remember many good times such as when my girlfriend and I were on the phone for the ACA’s passage and we were screaming and jumping around with joy.

    I just don’t see that at all on the other side. I guess they understand that there is nothing to celebrate with such a buffoon in the White House and a Republican-controlled Congress which cannot shoot straight. Hence the seething rage. Poor dears. It can only get worse for them (and unfortunately, us).

  106. 106
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ham Rove!
    Have hazy memories of when Rove and Co. were among America’s worst problems. Those times seem so naive today.

  107. 107
    ly-Ballou says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Don’t forget the devious, all-powerful (((JOOOOOS))) who somehow control everything by manipulating the former into giving the latter free reign.

  108. 108

    The Closed Fist of Truth would be a good superhero name.

  109. 109
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: OK, that was a LOL. Thanks, Adam!

  110. 110
    catclub says:

    @TenguPhule: I certainly noticed that the only case where a police officer faces any consequences for wrongful shooting
    seems to be when there are (armed) white conservatives in the line of fire.

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    @catclub: You too? When a black man is shot in the back running away and the whole fucking thing is caught on camera and even then you still get a mistrial, that’s when you know things have gone to hell.

  112. 112
    different-church-lady says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Tell me again how we’re supposed to peacefully coexist with these people.

    No, no, not peacefully co-exist: we’re supposed to empathize with them, or they will VOTE FOR TRUMP FOREVAH, YOU NARCISSISTIC FOOLS!

  113. 113

    @LAO:
    The Republican party’s problem is complicity. They can’t do anything about Trump without exposing their own wrongdoing, so they wind up being complicit in even more. Their only hope at this point is that they can keep his wrongdoing from ever getting out, because they know they’re going to be tarred with it.

  114. 114
    LAO says:

    @catclub: The reason the Agent faces consequences is because he is a Federal Agent of the FBI, and not because of the status of the so-called victim. FBI agents rarely fire their weapons. The Feds take these situations much more seriously than local law enforcement.

  115. 115
    Chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    When they lost in 2008, they got madder. When they won in 2016, they got madder still.

  116. 116
    Karen says:

    @Adam L Silverman: a friend’s dad used to do detail carvings on prized hunting rifles; back in the day when people owned wood stocks and people had one or two rifles

  117. 117
    Karen says:

    @TenguPhule: not sure you can, cause everything to them is “us” or “them”

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    You know, what struck me was how angry she is. She’s really seething there. I swear, conservatives pretty much have free rein now. They can do anything they want. All liberals can do right now is speak, and yet it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about? I really don’t understand this.

    1. They are mad that we don’t defer to Dolt45.
    2. Not only do we not defer to him and ‘ know our place’, large swaths of us have made it plain and simple that we will NEVER defer to him.
    3. We also tell them not only do we not respect Dolt45, but we don’t respect THEM for voting for them. That voting for him showed THEIR lack of character.
    4. We are telling #3- to their faces.
    5. We are coming with receipts everytime they try and pull some bullshyt. Receipts on things their side did during the time of 44 and receipts of how 44 did something better when compared side by side to Dolt45.
    6. They thought that we would ‘ know our place’, and we are telling them – PHUCK YOU AND YOUR MAMA to that.
    7. Their vessel for White Supremacy -Dolt45- is not just a national farce, but an INTERNATIONAL disgrace.
    8. Dolt45 is a joke, and they know it, but they have to contort in order to justify their vote for him.
    9. 44 is out there, traveling the world, being greeted like a rock star. And, he looks like he’s de-aging.
    10. The more that comes out, makes them realize that their Vessel For White Supremacy was put in via FRAUD, which adds to that they were conned, and what they wanted was not legitimate.

    This is a list of why they’re mad.

  119. 119
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Chris: I don’t know how they’re going to survive Trump then because they’ll have plenty of reasons to become even more enraged (if that is possible) for the next 4 years as they will be on the defensive all the dang time. I don’t recall ever having to defend President Obama to anyone, to be honest. Trump supporters have to defend him to anyone sensible.

  120. 120

    @different-church-lady:

    No, no, not peacefully co-exist: we’re supposed to empathize with them, or they will VOTE FOR TRUMP FOREVAH, YOU NARCISSISTIC FOOLS!

    We should also really think about amplifying the voices of party members who think women don’t deserve full access to healthcare, or that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to teach or buy pastries.

  121. 121
    lollipopguild says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Little did we know that Mel Brooks was predicting the trump administration.

  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    11. They know Baud! 2020! is just around the corner.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Is that croissant really worth losing America over?

  123. 123

    @TenguPhule: If Japan takes in Hawaii, where will their tourists go to shoot guns?!

    @Baud: What is this, 1995?

  124. 124
    Jim Parene says:

    @TenguPhule: I have always found that the biggest loud mouths are the biggest cowards, when comfronted with any kind of push back.

  125. 125
    Aleta says:

    Remembering this from last March, by Tim Mak. (NRA concerned about being investigated?)

    In March 2014, the U.S. government sanctioned Dmitry Rogozin—a hardline deputy to Vladimir Putin, the head of Russia’s defense industry and longtime opponent of American power—in retaliation for the invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

    Eighteen months later the National Rifle Association… sent a delegation to Moscow that met with him.

    Meeting with Rogozin, a target of U.S. sanctions, is not itself illegal explained Boris Zilberman, an expert on Russian sanctions at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. But it is “frowned upon and raises questions… those targeted for sanctions have been engaged in conduct which is in direct opposition to U.S. national security interests.”

    Rogozin’s … portfolio as deputy prime minister of Russia includes the defense industry. One issue where Rogozin seems particularly interested is cyberwarfare, which he has heralded for its “first strike” capability. And he’s well-known in Russia for being a radical—often taking a harder line than Putin himself.

    Rogozin was the leader of the ultra-right party called Rodina, or Motherland, and famously believes in the restoration of the Russian Empire, including what he calls “Russian America” (i.e., Alaska). To wrestle control of the party, he turned (it) to a strictly pro-Putin party. In 2005 Rogozin and his party miscalculated Putin’s anti-immigrant mood and got kicked out of the parliament. … Still, Rogozin … soon was appointed Russian ambassador to NATO at the time of the Russia-Georgia War—his main responsibility at the time was to prevent Ukraine and Georgia from joining NATO. Today his Motherland party is back in the parliament, trying to unite right-wing movements in Europe.

    “It is disconcerting that (the NRA) would be meeting [with a Russian official] about anything given their vocal support of the president,” said Rep. Mike Quigley, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Russia’s attempts to influence the 2016 presidential elections. “Due to the NRA’s opposition to sanctions, it defies credulity that they wouldn’t have discussed sanctions and their extraordinary support for Donald Trump’s campaign.”

    “Russia is not America’s friend. And it’s stunning to hear that while they were attacking our democracy, one of the largest organizations supporting Trump was cozying up with a sanctioned Russian in Moscow,” said Rep. Eric Swalwell, who is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee panel that oversees the CIA.

    The NRA spent $30.3 million to elect Trump—more than even the top Trump super PAC, which spent just $20.3 million, according to OpenSecrets.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Don’t I wish? I miss Friends.

  127. 127
    Chris says:

    @Baud:

    I don’t know. A properly baked croissant is worth quite a lot.

  128. 128
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud:

    Is that croissant really worth losing America over?

    America is already lost. Ask for extra butter.

  129. 129
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Major Major Major Major: But, see, those precious bigots are with us on “class,” meaning… something, I’ve never quite figured it out. I think it’s that banks are bad? :P

  130. 130
    Chris says:

    @Aleta:

    The hilarious thing is that, if my Facebook Wingnut Barometer is to be trusted, in the last couple of days their voters have done a 180 from “there is nothing to see here, Russia didn’t interfere, the entire intelligence community is part of a liberal plot to trip up our beloved president!” to “Russia interfered in our election! Why didn’t President Obama stop it? Why did President Obama’s weakness allow the Russians to think they could get away with this? What did Obama know and when did he know it?” Etc.

    Even though the common denominator is “nothing is Trump’s fault,”* the speed with which the backstory went from “we have never been at war with Eurasia” to “we have ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia!” is whiplash-inducing.

    [ * Doubly hilarious because these are #NeverTrump conservatives, who promised that real conservatives would hold him accountable if he were in the White House]

  131. 131
    different-church-lady says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about?

    They are anger junkies. They’re not angry about things. They just enjoy anger. That’s why Trump is so attractive to them: he makes anger fun, tells them it’s good.

  132. 132

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But, see, those precious bigots are with us on “class,” meaning… something, I’ve never quite figured it out. I think it’s that banks are bad? :P

    And must be destroyed, by means either ineffective or unspecified!

  133. 133
    different-church-lady says:

    @Chris: That’s where Orwell got it wrong — you don’t need the Ministry of Truth, you only need the Two Minute Hate.

  134. 134
    Karen says:

    @StringOnAStick: I know I wouldn’t think of threatening someone with sharp pointy objects in my mouth, my last dentist was okay but told terrible jokes. so twice a year I got to hear a bad joke; that was livable.

  135. 135
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: Amen to all that. I think point #3 is what is so hurtful to them. Hannity recently had a breakdown because Tindr users refuse to date Trump supporters. LOL.

  136. 136
    Chris says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Well, we’ve got a Ministry of Truth too. It’s just not a ministry. It’s the For-Profit Broadcast Corporation of Truth. Or just the Blogger In His Parents’ Basement of Truth.

  137. 137
    Shalimar says:

    @TenguPhule: You massively overestimate how often they go out in the dark. They’re more scared of you than you are of them, which is saying something.

  138. 138
    Shalimar says:

    @Chris: Even more hilarious, they still can’t get from “Obama should have stopped it” to “maybe Trump should do something to make sure it doesn’t happen again next time.”

  139. 139
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady:

    America is already lost. Ask for extra butter.

    Splitter! It’s melted cheese and bacon only!

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @Shalimar:

    You massively overestimate how often they go out in the dark.

    The year is still young. They’ve got plenty of time to get used to it.

  141. 141
    Chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Which is doubly pathetic, because really, which one of them would want to date one of those people in the first place? Even assuming those users aren’t black or atheist or whatever, the simple fact that they’re not Trump-worshipers would drive these people insane enough to break up within a week. So, really, they should be thanking them. That “will not date a Trump supporter” sign is really a big flashing light that says “UNWORTHY! UNWORTHY! DO NOT DATE!”

  142. 142
    different-church-lady says:

    @TenguPhule: IT’S A CROISSANT, NOT A GODDAMNED ENGLISH MUFFIN!!!

    Sorry, I’ve been a bit on-edge lately…

  143. 143
    gene108 says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I think it is more than just not being able to turn back time.

    It’s the fact the actual conservative agenda, both economic and social, will hurt them economically and physically. The conservative agenda is mean nasty piece of work for everyone not in the top 0.1% of incomes.

    The bottom rung of the 1% isn’t that far from middle class. An extended period of unemployment for a family earning $250,000 is going to hurt their pocket books and drop them down a notch on the socio-economic ladder. There’s not a big step from, “I am doing pretty well for myself”, to “oh shit, I have a health problem, can’t work, will lose employer sponsored coverage and will be totally fucked without health insurance” for folks at the bottom part of the 1%.

    Republicans are trying to sell their conservative vision on healthcare reform and it is awful. It will literally kill thousands of people a year.

    Their policies on other things are just as bad for most people.

    There’s just enough good government grease left in the gears of government for most people to not feel the impact. But if they enact their agenda at full speed, it’ll break what we consider to be the governmental machine and people will notice.

    You can’t have an agenda that total fucks people over all the time and expect people to love you for it.

    Hell, one reason Trump was so popular is he basically said the rest of the Republican field’s policies would hurt ordinary folks and he’ll do something amazing to make all the welfare programs they love better, while fucking over “those people”.

  144. 144
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jim Parene:

    I have always found that the biggest loud mouths are the biggest cowards, when comfronted with any kind of push back.

    Like I said, goblins. Its not when they’re in front of you that you need to worry.

  145. 145
    Aleta says:

    @Chris: I’m wondering if next they’ll suggest the Russians aided Hilary (and never forget the secret meetings on Lynch’s plane!). Removing Trump would mean the Russians win, kind of thing.

  146. 146
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady:

    IT’S A CROISSANT, NOT A GODDAMNED ENGLISH MUFFIN!!!

    Sorry, I’ve been a bit on-edge lately…

    English muffins are sausage and cheese.

    Croissant melty bacon cheese sandwiches are heaven. It will take the edge off you.

  147. 147
    J R in WV says:

    @Karen:

    I stopped when a deer hunter emptied his big auto deer rifle over my head at a flock of low flying turkeys trying to make is across the low gap of the ridge, where I planned to wait for deer trying the same thing. (It’s illegal to hunt anything but deer while deer are open season!)

    I got the hell down off the ridge to camp, enjoyed camp cookin’ and hangin’ out in teh woods til it was time to go home. Have never gone into the woods during hunting season that aren’t my owned paid for woods, and careful there too.

  148. 148
    Aleta says:

    @different-church-lady: Not at all! Keep asking the hard questions!

  149. 149
  150. 150
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    If Japan takes in Hawaii, where will their tourists go to shoot guns?!

    Canada?

  151. 151
    Alain the site fixer says:

    Back end update postponed until tomorrow. Mobile site enhancements going very well.

  152. 152
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV: My mom had to stop walking her own fields and woods after hunters she encountered got aggressive with her. 77 years old, always polite.

  153. 153

    @TenguPhule: Too far!

    @Karen: Heh.

    @different-church-lady: Trump’s America will do that to you, and at random times too.

  154. 154
    Chris says:

    @gene108:

    There’s just enough good government grease left in the gears of government for most people to not feel the impact.

    Most Americans don’t realize the extent to which the entire country has spent the last few decades coasting on the work done by seventy years of people who took the business of government seriously. Progressive Era, New Deal, Great Society, and all the times in between where people weren’t passing great reforms, but were still passing plenty of smaller updates, plus just keeping the machinery running. Heck, even the Gilded Age, as fucked up as it was, was arguably a step up in that direction from the previous Jacksonian cesspool – we got civil service reform, antitrust legislation, even some early consumer protection stuff.

    People have taken all that shit for granted for so long that they don’t even realize it’s what made the lifestyle they’re accustomed to possible, and have been empowering people to hack away at it for decades now.

  155. 155
    Chris says:

    @Aleta:

    I honestly wouldn’t be surprised. McCain’s entire big brain fart the other week seemed to be “you investigated Trump for his ties to Russia, but you didn’t investigate Hillary for her ties to Russia! Clearly, there’s a double standard there!” Given how used they are to rewriting their politicians’ brain-farts into something deep and meaningful, AND the way they’ve gone all out on the “whatever Trump is doing is just what Obama/Hillary were doing too!” excuses, I would really not be surprised if we started hearing more and more calls to investigate Hillary’s Russian ties.

  156. 156

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I guess they understand that there is nothing to celebrate with such a buffoon in the White House and a Republican-controlled Congress which cannot shoot straight.

    While @rikyrah has a good list for you, I must add to it, or perhaps sum it up. They thought electing a white supremacist would work. Trump was supposed to show that an angry, dumbass white bigot is a thousand times more effective than an intelligent black man. The deranged, asshole, dimwit tantrums that we laugh at were supposed to fix everything and prove that conservatives who act like that are the REAL good guys. Reality is spitting on them, proving to them that they are not the superior beings they believe. They were already pissed and rejecting reality because it hinted that. Now reality is slapping them with proof. Yes, they’re seething with bile.

  157. 157
    catclub says:

    @gene108: I just read that the 3.8% investment surtax only adds up to about $145B(?) of the total tax cuts included in the Senate bill. Does anyone know of a more complete breakdown of the taxes cut in that bill?
    I think there are medicare taxes, and durable medical instrument taxes, but I do not know if there are others, and how big each piece is.

  158. 158
    Aleta says:

    (comments not posting)

  159. 159
    d58826 says:

    @LAO: And to add insult to injury the government is filing perjury charges against the FBI agent who killed the one guy trying to escape.
    Now maybe the charges are deserved, didn’t follow it in that level of detail, but would be maddening if one of the few people convicted and sent to jail is one of the ‘good’ guys. ,

  160. 160
    ThresherK says:

    @Bill: I know you keed.

    Tangential reality, Jayne Mansfield died 50 years ago today, when the car she was in rear-ended a tractor-trailer. Her daughter is Mariksa Hargitay.

  161. 161
    bemused says:

    @Chris:

    You’d think they’d be grateful they wouldn’t be unpleasantly surprised by making dates with libtards! Maybe they’re just ticked off because their dating pool has shrunk alarmingly.

  162. 162
    rikyrah says:

    A historically black college just opened a campus at Google headquarters — here’s what it’s like inside

    Chris Weller

    Howard University, one of the nation’s largest historically black colleges, is granting 25 to 30 students the chance to spend their summer as Googlers.

    For three months starting this summer, rising juniors and seniors will take classes at the new Howard West campus in Mountain View, California.

    Students at Howard West will learn from Google employees and Howard faculty with the goal of establishing themselves in an industry where black engineers are largely absent.

    In 2016, just 1% of Google’s technical engineering staff identified as black. Meanwhile, 37% identified as Asian and 57% identified as white.

    Howard West was designed by Kurani, a design firm specializing in learning spaces. The firm’s founder, Danish Kurani, gave Business Insider a virtual tour of the new space.

  163. 163
    bemused says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Bitter winners.

  164. 164
    rikyrah says:

    The NRA finds new ways to stoke the fires of the culture war
    06/29/17 11:42 AM
    By Steve Benen
    The National Rifle Association has a challenge: the far-right organization has allies running the federal government. In practical terms, that leaves NRA members with very little to fear, at least in political terms. The chances of a far-right Congress approving gun reforms that will be signed into law by Donald Trump are zero.

    To be sure, the NRA still has to contend with public opinion. A new Quinnipiac poll, for example, released yesterday, found that 94% of Americans – including 93% of Republicans and 92% of voters in gun-owning households – support requiring background checks for all gun purchases.

    But the fact remains that the NRA’s Republican allies will simply ignore public attitudes on the subject – a fact the NRA’s members are no doubt aware of.

    How, then, will the group keep its supporters engaged? By pointing to a different enemy: Democratic officials may not be in position to approve any national policies, but there are still liberals out there who, the NRA says in a new video, need to be defeated in a culture war:

  165. 165
    d58826 says:

    @Chris: Saw a comment that the interstate highway system would not pass today – it contained a tax hike. But even then they had to disguise it as the National defense highway act or some such wording. My little 8 year old mind could not figure out why we were going to build all of those highways just for tanks to drive on.

  166. 166
    d58826 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: And if f that isn’t enough the ‘voter fraud’ commission is asking the states for complete voter rolls, back to 2006, with full name, party and last 4 digits of ssn. All of this will be made public. Now besides being a road map to voter suppression,
    I’m sure every con artist, Nigerian prince and hacker will just love getting their hands on those lists.

    https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/880483686289817600

  167. 167
    LAO says:

    @d58826: I get what you’re typing but I’m a defense attorney. If that Agent lied and sought to obstruct justice — he absolutely should be prosecuted.

  168. 168
    sphex says:

    @Alain the site fixer: The little grey arrow buttons work on mobile now! Yay!!! (Thank you.)

  169. 169
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    but there are still liberals out there who, the NRA says in a new video, need to be defeated in a culture war:

    Gee, I wonder how they plan on winning it. //

  170. 170
    ruemara says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): You still don’t agree with them. That’s it. They don’t want to control just government. They want control of your hearts and minds. They wish to destroy any opposing views or ideas or even emotions. That’s what they want and the dumbasses of America handed them enough power to really make a violent, destructive stab at it. At least you aren’t alone. Russia has been helping coordinate conservatives abroad too.

  171. 171
    Aleta says:

    Activists in wheelchairs have spent more than 2 straight days in Sen. Gardner’s office
    (photo: Activists with disabilities sleep in the Senate offices of Republican Cory Gardner, seeking a “no” vote on the GOP health bill.)

    Two days ago, seven Colorado residents with disabilities and two attendants passed through security and into the office of Sen. Cory Gardner (R-CO) in downtown Denver. More than 50 hours later, they’re still there.

    The group is staging a protest over Senate Republicans’ proposed cuts to Medicaid in their health care bill, the Better Care Reconciliation Act. The group of nine has now spent two nights sleeping in the 15-by-12-foot room, bringing in inflatable pool toys on Wednesday night after many slept in their wheelchairs or on the hardwood floor the first night. (Four of the protesters use wheelchairs. Two others have cerebral palsy.)

    “It’s been really hot and cramped in here, but we’re not leaving until we get a commitment that Sen. Gardner will vote ‘no,’” said Carrie Ann Lucas, 44, an attorney with the state of Colorado.

    -Vox
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/29/15893492/activist-protest-trumpcare-resistance

  172. 172
    TenguPhule says:

    @d58826:

    And if f that isn’t enough the ‘voter fraud’ commission is asking the states for complete voter rolls, back to 2006, with full name, party and last 4 digits of ssn

    Any NRA fucker who ever complained about a gun registery database and stays silent on this is a confirmed brownshirt.

    If that isn’t a setup for a purge by the numbers, I’ll eat Baud’s hat.

  173. 173

    @sphex: and some jackass put a rotating tag line on the top of the mobile site too.

    @TenguPhule: with the closed fist of truth, obviously.

  174. 174
    Yoda Dog says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    You know, what struck me was how angry she is. She’s really seething there. I swear, conservatives pretty much have free rein now. They can do anything they want. All liberals can do right now is speak, and yet it seems like conservatives are in a worse mood today than they were a year ago, or even eight years ago. What exactly are these people so pissed off about? I really don’t understand this.

    I don’t understand it either. The right has gone Ringo. Its almost like Invasion of the Body Snatchers sometimes with these people.. That video and Trumps tweet today are both just beyond the pale… Is there even a ‘pale’ anymore?

    I think Im sufficiently grossed out for the day and its time to get off the intertubes and play with my kids.

  175. 175
    Hungry Joe says:

    How could she mention the Clenched Fist of Truth without so much as a nod to the Jackboot of Justice? And why no shout-out to the Billy Club of Freedom?

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    @Chris:

    People have taken all that shit for granted for so long that they don’t even realize it’s what made the lifestyle they’re accustomed to possible, and have been empowering people to hack away at it for decades now.

    And as I’ve kept pointing out, when the wheels do come off its going to be ugly. Most of our major national population centers could not even feed themselves for more then a few weeks if the transportation network seriously breaks down.

  177. 177
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Quinerly: @71.

    How is it even possible to cover the tweets without showing them? Are you sure that none of the 4 programs on MSNBC showed the actual tweets?

    P.S. O/T: City Museum in St. Louis is beyond awesome. Plus, it’s so quirky that that it’s hard to believe that it’s a St. Louis venue. On my last trip to visit son and d-i-l in St. Louis I got to meet you, attend the March for Science, plus do my 2 “musts”: the City Museum and the Botanical Gardens.
    What a great trip; thanks for being a part of the gestalt.

  178. 178
    Alain the site fixer says:

    I hope to launch the improved comment controls too, just figuring out where it’s going wrong with our @reply button. That will be for both desktop and mobile sites.

  179. 179
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    with the closed fist of truth, obviously.

    I’m more concerned about what it will be closed around.

  180. 180
    TenguPhule says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    And why no shout-out to the Billy Club of Freedom?

    Baton of Freedom. This isn’t the 1920s any more.

  181. 181

    @TenguPhule: More truth! ETA: Or possibly reconciliation.

    @TenguPhule: I prefer ‘truncheon’.

  182. 182
    TenguPhule says:

    @Yoda Dog:

    Its almost like Invasion of the Body Snatchers sometimes with these people..

    Almost? Sometimes?

  183. 183
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    More truth! ETA: Or possibly reconciliation.

    I don’t think we could get 51 BJ commenters here to agree on that.

  184. 184
    d58826 says:

    @LAO: Oh I don’t object to him standing trial for what he did but just seems like what ordinarily would be the good guys get punished while the people that caused it all get off scott free. And I’m sure the militia types on the jury will vote to convict and then join their friends laughing their butts off.

    Would really make me consider forcing a hung jury if I was on that panel. I know it isn’t right but……

  185. 185
    d58826 says:

    @TenguPhule: 21st century – electric cattle prod. a twofer

  186. 186
    rikyrah says:

    KAY,

    Did you see this?

    The letter @KrisKobach1787 is sending to states confirms: Pence and Kobach are laying the groundwork for voter suppression, plain & simple. pic.twitter.com/22Ub1TxRS1
    — Vanita Gupta (@vanitaguptaCR) June 29, 2017

  187. 187
    Aleta says:

    Charles Blow:

    One of Trump’s primary motivators is the absolute erasure of Obama — were it possible — not only from the political landscape but also from the history books.

    Trump is president because of Obama, or more precisely, because of his hostility to Obama.

    Obama was a phenomenon. He was elegant and cerebral. He was devoid of personal scandal and drenched in personal erudition. He was a walking, talking rebuttal to white supremacy and the myths of black pathology and inferiority. He was the personification of the possible — a possible future in which legacy power and advantages are redistributed more broadly to all with the gift of talent and the discipline to excel.

    A few days ago, an internet piece from around 2010 was found, that gave instructions and template for making a Time mag cover of yourself. The template was a 2009 cover of Obama. The bar code and red line width on the template were the same as the bar code on the fake cover of Trmp. Literally had to insert himself into the place where a photo of O had been.

  188. 188
    Yutsano says:

    @rikyrah:

    And, he looks like he’s de-aging.

    Speaking of aging…

    I keep seeing pictures of the Hairy Yam and oh man he looks terrible. Not even the fake tan is keeping the rheumy puffy eyes and slouching jowls at bay.

  189. 189

    @d58826: As I understand it, the FBI guy didn’t kill the one trying to escape. I think state cops did. The FBI guy fired at a moving vehicle, which violates SOPs, and then lied about having done it and got his buddies to back him up. Once an agent lies, he’s useless in court forever after, so they take it seriously. I suspect he’d have been ok with just the non-standard shooting. Disciplined maybe but not charged.

  190. 190
    Chris says:

    @d58826:

    Saw a comment that the interstate highway system would not pass today – it contained a tax hike.

    It’s even worse than that. Pick any of the big government projects of the mid-century – the electrification of the Tennessee Valley, World War Two, the Marshall Plan, the interstate highway system, the Space Race. If you proposed any of these things today, not only would it not pass, but conventional wisdom, from both the right wing and most of the mainstream media, would be that it literally could not be done – that big government is incapable of handling that kind of project, and that it was economic madness to suggest it. (And then, the arguments would start about how it would be unconstitutional, anyway).

    Yeah, we’ve fallen a long way. And basically blacked out large parts of our own history.

  191. 191
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Aleta: Wow

  192. 192
    d58826 says:

    @rikyrah: see comment 165 and a link. They want ssn, full name, and party affiliation all the way back to 2006. And will make all of the lists public. Now it may or may not uncover voter fraud but the info will be a gold mine for every Nigerian price with a stock pile of gold he wants to sell.

  193. 193
    Karen says:

    @J R in WV: same in WI where I was, I was in blaze orange from head to foot; they shot at movement. you could hear them laughing and hooting; also can’t shoot certain distance from road I was just at edge of that distance since the deer had a nice highway and lots of buck rubs

  194. 194
    d58826 says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: As I say I don’t object to him being accountable, it’s the mob that started this is getting off scot-free.

  195. 195
    TenguPhule says:

    @d58826:

    They want ssn, full name, and party affiliation all the way back to 2006. And will make all of the lists public. Now it may or may not uncover voter fraud but the info will be a gold mine for every Nigerian price with a stock pile of gold he wants to sell.

    Credit card & SSN fraud, and a perfect check off list for rightwinger violence.

  196. 196
    TenguPhule says:

    @Chris:

    Yeah, we’ve fallen a long way.

    Worse, we’re picking up speed and nowhere near the bottom yet.

  197. 197

    @d58826: can’t the (blue) states just tell them to go fuck themselves?

  198. 198
    gene108 says:

    @Chris:

    Heck, even the Gilded Age, as fucked up as it was, was arguably a step up in that direction from the previous Jacksonian cesspool – we got civil service reform, antitrust legislation, even some early consumer protection stuff.

    People have taken all that shit for granted for so long that they don’t even realize it’s what made the lifestyle they’re accustomed to possible, and have been empowering people to hack away at it for decades now.

    I think what’s just as surprising is that in a representative democracy politicians will take up the wishes of a few billionaires to roll back those reforms, in order to make the billionaires richer.

    That’s not how democracy is supposed to work.

    Fear of being voted out of office should quell the impulses to fuck people over for the sake of making the rich richer.

  199. 199
    d58826 says:

    @Chris: Build a railroad line to connect the east coast with the west coast – communism. And if you want to send a letter from the east coast to the west coast in 21 days why go out and buy your own horse and deliver it yourself. Freedom.
    The list does go on. Freight lines were subsidized to haul supplies to the Calvary outposts, Air mail stamps to help the startup airlines. Building that canal that Der Fuhrer is so proud of.

  200. 200

    @d58826: I was appalled at the acquittals in those cases. But then Bill Cosby was acquitted too, so I guess justice isn’t always served.

  201. 201
    TenguPhule says:

    @gene108:

    Fear of being voted out of office should quell the impulses to fuck people over for the sake of making the rich richer.

    But when people stop voting and stop caring….well, here we are.

    Back to the bad old days of fear of being lynched.

  202. 202
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Chris: IMHO it’s because the context of the Cold War (and the Nonaligned Movement) meant that a lot of American institutions felt like they had to prove that they were serving the people better than Communism would. When the Cold War went away, a lot of the ideological justification for public service–America looking not just strong but good on the world stage–started to crumble. 30 years on, cross-pollinated with Reaganite “the government is the problem” folderol, we have contemporary conservatism. *Shudder*

  203. 203
    TenguPhule says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I was appalled at the acquittals in those cases. But then Bill Cosby was acquitted too, so I guess justice isn’t always served.

    TBF, Rape cases are bastards to win for prosecutors unless everything lines up perfectly. Over a decade old? Million to one odds there.

    But there was no excuse for not convicting those militia fuckers. None.

  204. 204

    @Chris: Mr IOL used to do research on diesel emissions and fuel economy and some of that was funded by the DoD. He once commented that in the US we need defense as an excuse to do some research whereas other countries use other reasons. We are not rational on the subject of the military. Sorry for preaching to the choir.

    ETA: Or what FlipYrWhig said at 201.

  205. 205
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: Nice!! I’m an Howard alumni so good to see them doing something so innovative.

  206. 206
    d58826 says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Cosby was a mistrial. they have already set a new trial date. It seemed that one of the jurors objected to the victims hair style (I kid you not) so voted for acquittal. . There is some talk that the judge will allow testimony from other victims. That way it will go from he said she said to he said sheX60 said.

  207. 207

    @TenguPhule: I sure couldn’t see one.

  208. 208
    TenguPhule says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    We are not rational

    Edited for accuracy. The military is but one of many things our country is fuggered about.

  209. 209
    J R in WV says:

    @Karen:

    One of my best friends’ father did gunsmith level work like that. He worked the machine of the action, created a sport hunting rifle from his Army-issue Garand, it was a work of art. So after he died, my buddy gave the gun to his nephew, the old guy’s only grandson.

    The twit had traded it away for a piece of shit before a year had passed. My buddy got the name of the guy twit nephew traded it to, but it had been months already, and it had floated away into a sea of meth-heads. Nephew didn’t even apololgize. Buddy would have paid him anything for the gun, thought that nephew would want something to remember his grandpa with forever, sadly mistaken.

    I have a pistol that he worked on, won’t be letting it go just for the sake of my friend. Wish I had my Grandma’s pistol, would pay good money for just the same model – alas they’re collectibles now – over a grand for a 1903 Colt Pocket .32 designed by John Browning. No idea what they cost back in the 1920s, but my grandparents wouldn’t have paid big money even for a really good pistol like that one is. Over a hundred, still shoots well.

  210. 210
    Karen says:

    @TenguPhule: I think with the “just in time” isn’t weeks it is days, most people barely keep a weeks worth of food in house. Some don’t even do that, a couple of days is all

  211. 211
    JPL says:

    Greta Van Sustern was let go at MSNBC.. Any idea why?

  212. 212
    Amir Khalid says:

    @ThresherK:
    Addendum to your fun fact:
    Mariska and her brother and sister (all very young at the time) were in the car with their mother, and survived the crash.

  213. 213
    JPL says:

    @pamelabrown53: Nicolle Wallace showed the tweets

  214. 214
    TenguPhule says:

    @Karen:

    I think with the “just in time” isn’t weeks it is days, most people barely keep a weeks worth of food in house. Some don’t even do that, a couple of days is all

    I’m not just counting what’s in the fridge, but every source of food available. Including all the eating places, stores, warehouses etc. Distribution aside, there would still physically be food present in some form.

    What I’m talking about is when there would literally be no food for love, guns or money unless you like the taste of long pork (or feral strays/vermin).

  215. 215
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @JPL: I’ll go out on a limb and say… being horrible at everything remotely related to her job, maybe?

  216. 216
    d58826 says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Most of the internet revolution was based on technology developed at gov’t labs or funded at places like Bell Labs.

    The internet itself started life as something called ARAPNET

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

    . It was designed to link defense orientated academia and provide DOD with a robust back up communication system in the event of nuclear war. No Al Gore didn’t invent it. He just pushed the legislation that opened it up to the people and the private sector. But before long it will be one more privately only/publicly funded rip off once that pesky net neutrality is thrown under the bus.

  217. 217
    El Caganer says:

    @TenguPhule: I remember when DC introduced Closed Fist of Truth – he was one of the original superheroes of Reacharound For America.

  218. 218
    TenguPhule says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    being horrible at everything remotely related to her job, maybe?

    Wouldn’t that result in a promotion?

  219. 219
    JPL says:

    Please someone put up an open thread. I just can’t look at the picture of Dana anymore. She oozes hate.

  220. 220
    d58826 says:

    @JPL: Not conservative enough?

    @JPL: I like her show. She isn’t perfect and her GOP background shows through at times but she plays it pretty straight down the line. Of course for a Bush family supporter I guess its easy to dump on Trump. She might have more problems if Jeb was in the WH. Then again she might be in there on his communication staff.

  221. 221
    rikyrah says:

    @d58826:

    @rikyrah: see comment 165 and a link. They want ssn, full name, and party affiliation all the way back to 2006. And will make all of the lists public

    I saw that after I posted it…

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

    Lips pursed.

  222. 222

    @d58826: the internet and the web have a thousand fathers, most of them socialist in one way or another. It drives me nuts when all these libertarian script kiddies who can write an app think they built their empire from scratch.

  223. 223
    Karen says:

    @J R in WV: back then things went for cents; I remember commenting about dinning room table that was round and seated 6 nicely when closed add the 20 leaves and you could seat all the adults in family. great grandma said she paid 50 cents for table and 1 dollar for all the leaves and the special “box” that kept the leaves from warping. and Wells Fargo delivered for another 10 cents. So they might have paid only 10 cents for pistol

  224. 224
    bemused says:

    @JPL:

    She sure didn’t last long. Ari Melber replacing her.

  225. 225
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: It is for data micro-targeting of voters in line with what the Trump campaign did in the 2016 election. And others did on his behalf.

  226. 226
    d58826 says:

    @rikyrah: I start at the bottom and work up the thread to comment #1 all the time.

  227. 227
    bemused says:

    @rikyrah:

    What could possibly go wrong!!! I hate these cretins. They’re not even human.

  228. 228
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It is for data micro-targeting of voters in line with what the Trump campaign did in the 2016 election. And others did on his behalf.

    The problem is who’s gonna be holding that data and what they’re going to be targeting with.

    I suspect the answers to both are not designed to allow a good night’s sleep.

  229. 229
    Karen says:

    @TenguPhule: am living in small town, under 2000; the blizzards last winter kept the trucks from getting in for a couple of days. the stores were empty and the few eateries didn’t get their supplies either. I also noticed that I have one of the few vegetable gardens, this is mill town and people just don’t think.

  230. 230
    d58826 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I remember hearing about ARPANET or something similar back when I worked for the Ford aerospace division back in the late 60’s

  231. 231
    JPL says:

    @bemused: I like him and will probably stream his show occasionally. Not that it matters, but I never streamed her.

  232. 232
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Voting records are public records, but this seems to be one step further than I am comfortable with.

    Now please put up a new post, so we don’t have to have the person who oozes hate, at the top.

  233. 233
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @TenguPhule: Touche!

  234. 234
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @JPL: Because she’s an asshole and nobody watched her show?

  235. 235
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Do not ask questions Tovarisch!

  236. 236

    @Adam L Silverman: I assumed it was for caging.

    @d58826: I was but an itch in my father’s testicle back then, as I once heard a professor say.

  237. 237
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Karen:

    am living in small town, under 2000

    Prairie Home Companion used to have a yearly contest, of sorts, called “Talent from Towns Under Two Thousand.”

  238. 238
    trollhattan says:

    @d58826:
    The judge didn’t allow most of the potential witnesses to testify, weakening the prosecution’s case. Hopefully next go it will be different, but since it’s the same judge, maybe not.

  239. 239
    d58826 says:

    @bemused: IF he is a permanent replacement then her severance package would be worth it if they paid her twice what she got. I think they expected all of the little fauxlets to troop over to MSNBC at 6pm. Guess it is harder to get those fauxlets out of their concrete buckets (meant to spell .bunkers’ but I like this wording better) with one channel only tvs then MSNBC thought. a

  240. 240
    d58826 says:

    @trollhattan: I’m not sure a final decision has been made on the witness list. The speculation is a couple of days old. But multiple witness will make it harder to claim bitter spurned lover. I think, but am not sure, that she came out sometime after the original civil trial so that might have influenced a few jurors. I did see her photo and the hair style does leave a bit to be desired but a piss poor reason to vote for an acquittal. Unless, of course, you were suing the beauty saloon for malpractice.

  241. 241
    EBT says:

    @TenguPhule: then they can die by federal bullets too. Unless they want to go the Rockwell route and be gunned down at a laundromat.

  242. 242
    EriktheRed says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): No mystery here: they know that ultimately they’re a minority nationally so they need to keep the anger going to keep their rube base getting tho the polls.

  243. 243
    Miss Bianca says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Methinks you have hit the nail on the head, here.

  244. 244
    trollhattan says:

    @d58826:
    Here’s hoping things change. The magazine cover is so utterly damning, each had to overcome considerable fear and regret to agree and one can only imagine how many more remain silent even today. They deserve justice.

  245. 245
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    I don’t buy a Civil Wars, maybe more lone gunmen but considering the sheer fear and terror from these people I am predicating mass suicides by the new years. The conservative media sells fear to them, they elected Trump to stop their fear and instead Trump only strokes it because Trump is just another right wing media hack. This all reminds me of the character in Illuminates who killed himself because he was convinced every man around him was secretly gay and out to rape him.

  246. 246
    TenguPhule says:

    @El Caganer:

    I remember when DC introduced Closed Fist of Truth – he was one of the original superheroes of Reacharound For America.

    And Lube boy was beaten to death by El Douche.

  247. 247
    Karen says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I was basically raised by great grandmother, when I left after divorce I took all my canning equipment as well as wine making equipment, took all my books that have information from soap making to beer brewing. But I am rare in this day, very few people could survive with the way I was taught to live.

  248. 248
    jacy says:

    @bemused:
    Is Ari Melber the hot one? I can’t remember — been too long since I gave up cable. It was only a few months ago, but those are Trump months, which seem way longer.

  249. 249
    TenguPhule says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    but considering the sheer fear and terror from these people I am predicating mass suicides by the new years.

    I wish I had your confidence.

    I think they’re going to taste innocent blood sooner or later and develop an addiction for it.

  250. 250
    d58826 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: IIRC my history correctly a big reason for the start of the European social welfare state, starting with Bismark in Germany, was to make sure the peasants used their pitchforks for pitching hay and not pitching the nobility onto bonfires. And Europe has had a lot more experience with pitchforks and tar and feathers then we have.

  251. 251

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: yeah, on a population level these people are fucking cowards.

  252. 252
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    on a population level these people are fucking cowards.

    That’s the problem. Cowards are at their worst when they have any advantage.

  253. 253
    trollhattan says:

    Trump evidently has been twitter-twating at Mika and Joe; here’s her response. {golf clap}

  254. 254
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    I don’t have my speakers connected so I watched that video without sound.

    Try doing that and esp. the part starting around 50 seconds. Watch her mouth. It’s like she is a grasshopper that has bitten into an especially bitter bit of vegetation. Creepy.

  255. 255
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @JPL: Greta Van Sustern was let go at MSNBC.. Any idea why?

    The retweeted story I saw said her ratings “never caught fire”, which made me laugh. I managed to avoid her show except for a few minutes here and there flipping through the presets on my car radio (Sir/XM). On MSNBC promos she would bray brodeorist– “stop with all the politics and get something done!”– all but a quote from the dead Dean

  256. 256
    d58826 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I had posted this earlier but I think it fits in with what you are describing. I thinks it’s more than just the end of the cold war. THis crowd has been trying to do this since FDR was elected.

    In one sense I suspect that we are overthinking this. The GOP has been taken over by a group of money men and politicians (since the money men prefer to stay in the shadows and clip coupons) who have a theory of government/society that would be more at home in the age of the divine right of kings. They, as the 1%, are the lords of the ‘estate’ and the rest of us are at worst serfs or at best tradesmen/craftsmen who are free but still totally dependent on dealing with the lord. The ‘estate’ while it includes land but also includes companies, stocks, bond, etc

    Since they don’t view this position purely as result of birth (well the Trumpettes do) they are willing to accept new members as long as they have the request balance sheet.

    So any kind of gov’t program that doesn’t work to their advantage is wrong and any one that does is acceptable. The view is totally incompatible with one person one vote and a government serving the interests of the larger community

  257. 257

    @gene108:

    Fear of being voted out of office should quell the impulses to fuck people over for the sake of making the rich richer.

    It gets a lot more complicated when the elected officials are sadistic assholes, elected by sadistic assholes, to be sadistic assholes.

  258. 258
    Mike in DC says:

    @bemused:

    Shoulda put Joy Reid in there. I really want them to “encourage” Tweety to retire.

  259. 259
    d58826 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Fear of being voted out of office

    and are working diligently to ensure that one person one vote means only GOP votes.

  260. 260
    randy khan says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Cosby was a hung jury, and the prosecutor said he plans to retry the case.

  261. 261
    Chris says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I’m not actually sure I buy this. The trend that started things going really wrong was Thatcher/Reagan circa 1980. The Cold War was still going strong back then and, according to the conventional wisdom of the time, was actually getting worse – the economic problems and various embarrassments in the West combined with the loss of Iran, the loss of Nicaragua, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the feeling was very much that the commies were getting the upper hand.

  262. 262
    Aleta says:

    New request to investigate Sessions, from House judiciary and oversight committees and signed by 35 House Dems:

    “The actions of Attorney General Sessions in collaborating directly with President Trump to fire Director Comey reflect a lapse in judgment by our nation’s top law enforcement official and appear to violate multiple promises made by the Attorney General and his aides” says the letter sent Thursday to DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz.

    Other lawmakers, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Ma.) and Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) have already asked Horowitz to look into Sessions’ recusal. But Thursday’s letter adds pressure for the IG to weigh in on the attorney general’s conduct.

    Horowitz’s office may already be looking into the matter.

    -from Mother Jones article

  263. 263
    TenguPhule says:

    Gorsuch, DIAF!!! Immediately if not sooner!

    In his dissent, Gorsuch made two counterarguments, neither of which is even remotely plausible.

    First, he wrote that the court should have dismissed the appeal because “in this particular case and all others of its kind, the state agrees, the female spouse of the birth mother must be listed on birth certificates too.” What? That issue lay at the heart of this case—but Gorsuch has it exactly backward: Arkansas explicitly refused to list “the female spouse of the birth mother” on birth certificates. That’s how the case wound up at the Supreme Court in the first place.

    Second, Gorsuch wrote that the plaintiffs’ challenge was incorrect: He insisted they should have challenged the “artificial insemination statute,” not the state policy refusing to list same-sex parents on birth certificates. This reasoning makes no sense. The plaintiffs cited the artificial insemination statute only to prove that Arkansas already listed non-biological parents on birth certificates. They had no desire to overturn it; they merely used it as evidence that Arkansas was not extending a key marital benefit to same-sex couples. Did Gorsuch simply not understand this extremely basic aspect of the case?

    “I think he’s deliberately trying to muddy the waters,” Minter told me. “The plaintiffs in this case brought their challenge in under a statute that very plainly provides that when a child is born to a married woman, her husband must be named on the child’s birth certificate. We went to court to challenge the gendered limitation of that statute, arguing that, under Obergefell, the law has to be applied equally to married same-sex couples. We had absolutely no reason to challenge the artificial insemination statute.”

    Gorsuch is not a judge, he’s a fucking cult priest.

  264. 264

    @Mike in DC: I just read an interview with Rachel Maddow in Rolling Stone. The interviewer asked her who she admired as an interviewer and she said Tweety. Well, she said Chris Matthews. She said he interrupts because he’s listening so hard to his guest. I’m still not sure I get it .

  265. 265
    MomSense says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That Loesch video is absolutely unhinged.

    Doesn’t it seem like she has a permanent sort of sneering expression? She is scary looking.

  266. 266
    MomSense says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m still not over his mother and her corrupt tenure at EPA.

  267. 267
    trollhattan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Will speculate the stem-cell personality implant experiment was a failure.

    I wish these networks would cease with their grab-Fox-viewers experiments. Not worth squandering your “reputations” to gain shouty old man viewership.

  268. 268
    trollhattan says:

    @MomSense:
    Yup, mama Gorsuch and James Watt were a hellofa pairing for Team Scorched Earth.

  269. 269
    TenguPhule says:

    @MomSense: I need a freakin drink. That bottle of yuzu sake in the fridge is calling my name. 6 hours till I can answer it.

  270. 270

    @TenguPhule:

    Cowards are at their worst when they have any advantage.

    No, cowards are at their worst when they have an overwhelming advantage. I cannot sufficiently stress how this movement is defined by chickenhawks. There is not going to be any kind of general violence. They are extreme cowards, they are totally disorganized, and they are incapable of becoming organized because they also hate each other. The wildlife refuge takeover is the perfect example. The absolute bravest squatted on land they were sure the government wouldn’t run them off of, did a little preening about what warriors they are, committed petty vandalism on-site, announced that this was the spark that should set off the revolution and race war, and then argued with each other until they all left and were arrested.

    Trump is seriously validating and stoking the anger of these bullies, so there will be, and I believe has been, an increase in small-scale hate crimes. The kind of mass violence you imply? No. It’s out of the question, not going to happen.

    To put it another way, these people are their leader. Trump isn’t Hitler. Trump is a whiny, incompetent loser too busy throwing tantrums to implement his agenda, and whose idea of confrontation is to get up at 3am and rage-tweet.

  271. 271
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @sherparick: What always got me about the society in 1984 is how unsustainable it is. The technology is permanently stuck in the 1940s. That industrial tech was incredibly dirty and inefficient. What was the Party going to do when the environment was too polluted for human life? Or when resources would inevitably run out?

    It’s a shame Orwell didn’t explore that

  272. 272
    Mary G says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Connecticut’s SoS has already objected. Hopefully the ACLU will chime in, too. I thought I had set up a donation to them, but apparently not. I did today.

  273. 273
    MomSense says:

    @trollhattan: @TenguPhule:

    These assholes never go away.

  274. 274
    Mike in DC says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    He does one thing well, pressing pols fo for answers to relatively tough or direct questions. But his insights into contemporary politics seem incredibly dated. Also, the worship of working class white guys can grate quite a bit. Instead of saying “racism” he refers to “the ethnic stuff”.

  275. 275
    Chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    What always got me about the society in 1984 is how unsustainable it is.

    Me, too, but in a different sense. What seemed unrealistic to me was that you’d be able to maintain a society at that level of hysteria permanently. I mean, yeah, there was Stalin’s purges and Mao’s Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot’s killing fields, but all of those things only lasted so long before they were put down – too many people want some kind of stability.

    Of course, the Kims seem to have maintained North Korea in a state of controlled insanity for ages, so what do I know. And while they haven’t been at it for nearly as long, the Fox News viewing community seems to be an experiment in seeing just how that can work…

    But the other thing that I couldn’t wrap my head around was having that kind of hysteria without Big Brother (it’s never stated outright, but strongly implied, that he’s just a construct made up for the masses). I mean, in all the cases mentioned above, there actually was someone at the top who benefited from the regime of terror. In the case of 1984… all the members of the inner and outer party live in constant fear, but not because of Big Brother – Big Brother is something they manufacture themselves in order to create that fear. Why? At some point, wouldn’t enough of them decide “okay, I’m tired of this” and trade in the Stalin-style terror for Brezhnev-style corruption behind closed doors that everyone can benefit from?

  276. 276
    Aleta says:

    @TenguPhule: 3 Dem Senators voted for Goresuch. Every Repub voted for him except for 1 who abstained. Every Repub voted for racist Sessions (plus 1 Dem).

    I’m mentioning this every time I call Collins or the Senate about Medicaid and health care. (I called again today and I’m also calling King to ask him to speak out more.)

  277. 277
    ksmiami says:

    @rikyrah: I would add that generally they are fat, ugly (in and out), deeply stupid, confused by religion, and have no real hobbies except hatred but ppl here might think I’m mean.

  278. 278
    Ab_Normal says:

    @Karen:

    they are “good church going christians” most of the men even conceal carry to church services to keep their families “safe”

    What… I mean… what… (brain segfaults)

    when I commented to her about poor choice of gift for spoiled 6 year olds, she unfriended me on facebook and blocked me there and email

    Hey, at least this story has a happy ending!

  279. 279
    ThresherK says:

    @Amir Khalid: Good addendum. I know that there are mandated bars (now) as a result of this crash to prevent cars submarining under trailers. Can’t imagine what it’s like to watch a parent go thru that.

  280. 280
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: IOW, because of their various personality dysfunctions, they are unable to create effective organizations like the SA in Hitler’s Germany. However, there’s still the LEOs and military and there are lot of wingnuts there. They’re highly organized. A more competent Trump-like figure is what I fear for the future; someone who truly could become the next Hitler

  281. 281
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It’s out of the question, not going to happen.

    It was unthinkable before. But that was when we had norms, rules, codes of behavior. All of that has been shredded by not only Trump, but the entire GOP going back decades. The foundations of our civil society have been methodically sabotaged by the rightwingers and I do not think they will hold barring some serious miracle working.

  282. 282
    Chris says:

    @Ab_Normal:

    they are “good church going christians” most of the men even conceal carry to church services to keep their families “safe”

    Christ.

    I used to carry a pocket knife everywhere as a kid, and even then I’d always leave it in the car before walking into church. Not even something my parents had to say to me – I understood on a basic level that God’s house was not the place to be bringing a weapon into, even a pathetic one that I never actually used as a weapon.

  283. 283
    Chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    Also remember that the original Nazis, themselves, came with plenty of divisions and personality disorders too. They overcame some, and were able to function without others. Their original footsoldiers, the SA a.k.a. Brownshirts, were probably the closest thing they had to the most visible Trump voters of today. In time they were purged and replaced by a less populist and more disciplined force (the SS). Mirroring the way that Nazism’s base itself changed, starting out with a center of gravity that was very lower middle class but, as it took and cemented power, shifted upwards to pay more attention to the elites and the more “respectable” middle class.

  284. 284

    @TenguPhule:

    But that was when we had norms, rules, codes of behavior

    It has nothing to do with norms, rules, or codes of behavior. It has to do with the culture involved, the motivations and emotions of the movement. Decency is not stopping them. Being idiot cowards whose universal spite makes them unable to hold together groups stops them. There is not going to be mass violence.

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:
    The idea of a top-down problem, or civil war, is at least possible. They are not highly organized to support a government takeover, however. If anything, their organization tends to make it harder. When the courts ruled against the travel ban, a few people in the system refused to comply, but there weren’t enough of them to be more than a blip. It IS important to remember that we DO outnumber them. That’s why they’re freaking out, honestly. When they couldn’t kick Obama out of office, it hit home.

  285. 285
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The wildlife refuge takeover is the perfect example. The absolute bravest squatted on land they were sure the government wouldn’t run them off of, did a little preening about what warriors they are, committed petty vandalism on-site, announced that this was the spark that should set off the revolution and race war, and then argued with each other until they all left and were arrested.

    Actually, no. Those were just the stupidest ones. The smart ones are the ones that worry the actual anti-terrorist people. And unfortunately they have a lot to be worried about.

  286. 286

    @TenguPhule:
    The actual anti-terrorist people are not worried about the smart ones. They’re worried about the lone wolves who are hard to see through the sheer mass of data available. Those, smart or not, are completely unrelated to the widespread violence you anticipate. An increase in stochastic violence, as Adam puts it? Yeah. But voter lists used as a hit list to suppress Democrats? No. It’s not going to happen.

  287. 287
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It has nothing to do with norms, rules, or codes of behavior. It has to do with the culture involved, the motivations and emotions of the movement.

    Which is what those same rules, norms and codes of behavior would normally safely bleed off before it becomes a major problem, that’s the whole point of having them in the first place. When that safety valve gets scrapped, lizard brain motivations begin to reign freely and people start getting hurt. You’re doubting their competence at getting the job done.

  288. 288
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Chris:

    Me, too, but in a different sense. What seemed unrealistic to me was that you’d be able to maintain a society at that level of hysteria permanently. I mean, yeah, there was Stalin’s purges and Mao’s Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot’s killing fields, but all of those things only lasted so long before they were put down – too many people want some kind of stability.

    Decades of propaganda, brainwashing, seemingly all-knowing secret police, as well as bread and circuses seem to have done the trick. The very concept of stability may have changed for humanity, considering like 90% of it is ruled by 3 identical massive regimes.

    But the other thing that I couldn’t wrap my head around was having that kind of hysteria without Big Brother (it’s never stated outright, but strongly implied, that he’s just a construct made up for the masses).

    An aside: Big Brother may have once been a real individual who was the leader of Oceania for many years and eventually died. The Party decided to keep his image as a popular figurehead to control the population.

    I mean, in all the cases mentioned above, there actually was someone at the top who benefited from the regime of terror. In the case of 1984… all the members of the inner and outer party live in constant fear, but not because of Big Brother – Big Brother is something they manufacture themselves in order to create that fear. Why? At some point, wouldn’t enough of them decide “okay, I’m tired of this” and trade in the Stalin-style terror for Brezhnev-style corruption behind closed doors that everyone can benefit from?

    As far as in-universe example, I’m not sure why they didn’t just change. They may have brainwashed themselves. I think O’Brien said as much to Winston. The real answer is that Orwell wanted to make an allegory for Stalinism and how terrifying it could be. That a world where an omniscience and omnipotent government could know your every thought and could make you believe that 2 + 2 = 5

  289. 289
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    But voter lists used as a hit list to suppress Democrats? No. It’s not going to happen.

    I hope you’re right about this.

  290. 290

    @Frankensteinbeck: why not? That’s what they’re already used for.

  291. 291
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: They may not be able to NOW. A few more decades unchecked…? Who knows. I hope it never happens. If it does, I’m out. I’ve said in the past I’d fight if it came to that, but I’m not sure what there will be to fight for at that point

  292. 292
    d58826 says:

    @Mike in DC:

    his insights into contemporary politics

    A lot of his hands on experience goes back to the days of Tip O’Neill. Lot a water under the damn since then. Either way I wish he would let the people on the panel ANSWER the bloody questions. Now if he has a guest who is try to BS or filibuster the answer then yes interrupt. But a lot of his guests are trying to give an honest answer from their point of view. which may not always be tweeties. So let them finish. We all might learn something. Probing questions are great but so are complete answers from guests trying to respond in an honest way.
    You know what your going to get when you have Matt Schlapp on as a guest. He doesn’t provide balance just noise. So you know going in that he will BS/filibusterer GOP talking points. Don’t schedule him as he is a waste of time. Having him on to see who can shout the loudest wastes my time and insults my intelligence.

  293. 293
    Karen says:

    @Ab_Normal: I strongly the suspect the keep them safe is due to church they belonged to was scene of mass killing and she lost friends. The guy who did the killing was a few bricks short load (brother was friends with him) and he had mental health problems, some of the drugs the doctors gave him made it worse. And this man was able to buy weapons without any problem, WI did criminal checks but no one thought to check with his doctors

  294. 294
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Chris: I’ve recently read about Hitler’s rise. Essentially nothing really changed in Germany class-wise. The word “Socialism” in the party name was just to lure in rubes; Hitler and the other Nazis enjoyed lots of support among the traditional conservative right and big business. They feared evil communism after all. And because of their irrationality and callousness, 6 million Jews (and other “undesirables”) were shot, starved, gassed, and baked to death. Not to mention the tens of millions that died in the war proper

  295. 295
    Chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    I understand the basic concept. I just never found it entirely plausible. The standard arc for regimes like this is that they have their “1984” phase, but they eventually lose steam and fossilize into something that’s more about corruption than whatever the revolution started out as. Soviet Russia, Red China, Francoist Spain, islamist Iran. They all eventually fossilize into the kind of decadence they overthrew in the first place. Which really makes sense – the whole point of revolution for a lot of people is to get to be the one on top, and as time goes by you get more and more people from the new generation who never knew the original struggles in the first place and just want to enjoy the perks and privileges they got from their parents. There’s no point in being one of the big shots if the big shots are living the life of the terrorized.

    As I say, the one place that seems to’ve been able to maintain the “1984” stage over the long term is North Korea. (Though how much of that is true, and how much of it is North Korean state propaganda, we won’t really know until the place comes down). So it’s not impossible… but it does seem to be by far the less likely outcome.

  296. 296
    Chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    Yep. Also, IIRC from Paxton’s “An Anatomy of Fascism,” the term had limited appeal even in getting the rubes on board – the Nazis did less well in the working class than they did among their wealthier counterparts. It’s a nice way to project a hardy blue collar image, though.

    The other thing I remember reading, elsewhere, was that “National Socialist German Workers’ Party,” in 1920s/30s Germany, was basically the equivalent of calling yourself the “Democratic Republican Liberal Conservative Party” in today’s United States. Two cliched words from the left and two cliched words from the right. End result being that you maximize appeal throughout the population, and draw at least some low-information rubes from all over the place. (Goldberg and rest of the shit-for-brains are just picking out one of the four words, ignoring the other three, and pretending that this is meaningful).

  297. 297
    d58826 says:

    Seems the CBO just can’t stop putting out fake news

    Whoa. New CBO analysis outside 10-year window finds Medicaid spending would fall by even more — 35% — by 2036:

    https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/880519826552365057
    https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/reports/52859-medicaid.pdf

  298. 298
    john fremont says:

    @Aleta:
    I’very been calling in to Gardner’s Washington office over the past week. I like to think my calls helped flip Mike Coffman, I hope Gardner caves to the voters not to the donors.

  299. 299
    d58826 says:

    And the video of Nicolle Wallace talking about Der Fuhrer. She doesn’t shout. She doesn’t resort to name calling but you can see the anger in her body language and hear it in the very controlled tone of her voice
    https://twitter.com/NicolleDWallace/status/880520656713994241

  300. 300
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Chris: When you brought up North Korea, I should have mentioned: Ever heard of the “Oceania is really just the British Isles” theory?

  301. 301
    Chris says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    Yes.

    The more I think about it, the more plausible that one is, actually.

    I think I’ve also heard a similar theory about “V for Vendetta,” that the whole story wherein the rest of the world is a nuked-out wasteland is just a lie that Norsefire tells the people to keep Britain isolated. Works there, too.

  302. 302
    Seth Owen says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷: As far as sustainability goes one need look no further than North Korea. We are into our third generation of Kims with no end in sight.

  303. 303
    J R in WV says:

    @Aleta:

    I’m sorry to hear that, people should have better manners when they’re trespassing.

    My Grandma carried a F’in gun for people who got aggressive with her, and they would rue the day because she would have used it in an instant.
    She held a would-be burglar at gunpoint standing at her back door to wait on the sheriff one afternoon, her car was in the basement garage and it was quite a surprise for him when she yanked the tightly locked door open with an automatic pistol in her other hand.

    She was born in the late 1800s, in a riverboat town in Kentucky, back when a lady carried a gun and was taught to use it first at a young age. No BS to her, not a bit.

  304. 304
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV: Thanks for this story. (If you ever write about her and your other relatives, I’d like to pay for a copy/download.)

    I found an 1867 diary (only one year) of my great-grandmother’s and an earlier diary by her cousin.

    Hers was mostly about a guy she was in love with. She also kept track of how many shirts she made and sold every week, which is how she made her living. Also the quilting and sleighride parties. (No mention of the Civil War, though she attended something called donations that might have been a political meeting group. And there was an old photo of Pres. Lincoln and family.) In the last few pages, her heartthrob jilted her for another girl.

    Her cousin apparently made his living in the woods, trapping and berrying. His diary was a tally of everything he trapped or picked and how much he sold it for. Also recipes for gunpowder uses and for snakebite. (The snakebite recipe used gunpowder too.) My gr-grmother mentions him showing up a few times flush with money, taking them to the seashore, buying her a hat or a new parasol.

  305. 305
    jharp says:

    “I think it’s to promote joining”

    I think it’s to incite violence and I think it’ll work.

  306. 306
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Reality is spitting on them, proving to them that they are not the superior beings they believe. They were already pissed and rejecting reality because it hinted that. Now reality is slapping them with proof. Yes, they’re seething with bile.

    This is without a recession, or really any sort of crisis that affects us directly. So far, every disaster that’s happened is of Trump and the Republicans’ own making. There’s a terrible heat wave going on, but no major natural disasters beyond that. The economic recovery is still chugging along pretty well on the whole, though the deep endemic inequities are still there.

    Imagine how things are going to go when a real problem comes up. The kinds of things that sank the Bush administration.

    The sad thing is that if it’s a war, it probably will help Trump in the short run and give him pseudo-legitimacy just like it did Bush. Those things take years to go really sour.

  307. 307
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Chris: One difference between North Korea and most of those other places is that North Korea is a hereditary monarchy in all but name. Maybe that’s part of what you need to keep it going–a god-king who is an actual person with status ratified by inheritance. Though obviously that’s not sufficient, given historical monarchies.

  308. 308
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The fucking COMPUTER was developed by the government, to calculate artillery firing tables. Hollerith cards? Developed by the Bureau of the Census.

    Everything involved in computing was developed with government R&D.

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