Open Thread: You Come At the Queen…

Cue the Somewhat Soiled Lady, a day late and a hot-take short — “Nancy Pelosi Tells Democratic Critics, ‘I Think I’m Worth the Trouble’”:

The House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi, strolled before the cameras on Thursday with defeat at her back once more, projecting a well-worn swagger — brash, defiant, more than a little off key — as she insisted that her moment had not passed…

With six words, Ms. Pelosi, 77, demonstrated the self-assurance that has powered her as one of the most successful congressional leaders in the modern era. Yet even as Democrats enjoy a surge of grass-roots energy that could resurrect their House majority, some members of Ms. Pelosi’s own party are impatient for her to give up her 15-year grip on power.

She is the Democrat most crucial to determining whether her party can take back the House and torpedo President Trump’s agenda — an avatar of the kind of coastal excess that Republicans abhor and that some progressives have come to view suspiciously in an age of ascendant populism.

“Everybody wants leaders,” she said in an interview in her office at the Capitol, during which she was often as dismissive of critics in her own party as she was of the Republican opposition. “Not a lot of people want to be led.”

To many Democrats, Ms. Pelosi is their own indispensable woman, a legislative genius, tactical wizard and prolific fund-raiser whose ability to hold together a fractious caucus is written in her own success in passing many laws, and blocking even more.

But some in her caucus have reached a different conclusion: She is not, well, worth it.

Representative Kathleen Rice, Democrat of New York, said flatly that Democrats had lost their way and could not win the majority back with Ms. Pelosi leading the party. Ms. Rice hosted a Thursday afternoon meeting of just over a dozen anti-Pelosi House Democrats, according to Representative Tim Ryan of Ohio, who attended. The would-be coup plotters did not emerge with “any action items,” Mr. Ryan said…

Youngbloods gonna youngblood, but their ongoing problem remains: The only people who really want Pelosi to retire are Republicans and the More-Progressive-Than-Thou men who wouldn’t vote for a mere Democrat if the alternative were undergoing vasectomy with a melon baller.

Mr. Charles P. Pierce, on the button, as usual:

If you’re proposing to replace Pelosi, prepare for the inevitable result. The pressure on the replacement—from Republicans, certainly, but also from the elite political media—to work “on a bipartisan basis” with the zombie-eyed granny starver and his band of cutthroats, or to find “common ground” with the folks down at Camp Runamuck, is going to be well-nigh overwhelming. And that’s not even to mention the both-siderist frenzy that will erupt during the fight to elect a new leader. Dems In Disarray is a Beltway classic. This would be its loudest revival performance in years. And, in any case, if you’re demanding that Pelosi be dumped because of her usefulness as a Republican cartoon, aren’t you already pretty much admitting defeat?

One of these days, Pelosi will step down (or die in harness, like Teddy Kennedy). But before she can be replaced, somebody needs to demonstrate that they could actually do the job she does. If it were as easy as she makes it look, the Media Village Idiots’ long-hoped-for “coup” would have happened years ago. And if she were as “obsolete” as the Repubs like to pretend, she wouldn’t be their go-to Lie-bral Boogymonster.

224 replies
  1. 1
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    Nancy Smash. Long live the Queen!

  2. 2
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    I really think we do need someone younger to fill Pelosi’s role-its symptomatic that we on the left have a problem with telling our senior pols (like fucking RBG) to resign when they should. But obviously she shouldn’t step down because fucking Tim Ryan or whatever the fuck his name is thinks so.

  3. 3

    One of the reasons the current Speaker and his predecessor looked so bad in doing their jobs is the way Speaker Pelosi handled the job.

  4. 4
    MomSense says:

    Aimee Mann wins the argument. How stupid was it to spend the day of the release of the McConnell bill talking about Pelosi? That certainly was a big assist to the Republicans. Makes you wonder.

    If anyone had doubts before the release of the bill, there should be no doubt now that the Republican Party is evil.

  5. 5
    Dr. Ronnie James, D.O. says:

    “Hush, Aimee. Voices carry.”

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @MomSense: It’s pretty stupid.

  7. 7
    MJS says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: Two questions – when would you have had RBG resign? And what world do you live in where the Republicans would have voted to confirm THAT Obama Supreme Court nominee?

  8. 8

    @MomSense: It has the appropriate name, BCRAP.

  9. 9
    Immanentize says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    like fucking RBG

    What? Isn’t it too early for this stupidity?

  10. 10
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning,Everyone😐😐😐

  11. 11
    debbie says:

    Besides, as the head chump has tweeted, you wouldn’t want to make the Republicans happy, would you?

  12. 12
    rikyrah says:

    Nothing wrong with Nancy Smash😃😄

  13. 13
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense: But jerks like “Dago Red Wine” Ryan are willing to play for team R whenever they need him. What did he do to help Ossoff win?

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  15. 15
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Republicans hate Ms Pelosi with the heat of a thousand dying suns which just mean she is doing her job right.

  16. 16
    Immanentize says:

    Plus lady parts. They hate that too.

  17. 17
    Elizabelle says:

    Big fan of Nancy Smash. She is not going anywhere. I would like to see her as President Pelosi, once the GOP leadership goes down in flames.

    And I agree about RBG, notorious and wonderful as she is. It’s reckless to stay on so long at that age, with that health history. Should have let herself be replaced during Obama’s term. We have not seen how this plays out yet. I wish RBG many decades of full and intelligent life, but it’s a risk to us that she’s there, too, given actuarial tables.

  18. 18
    MomSense says:


    She was on message fighting for all of us who would be harmed by BCRAP while those *^%{%{#%€!\ decided to give cover to the Republican evil with the Dems in disarray meme they know is irresistible to the media.

    They are not our allies. The sooner we realize this and cut them out completely the better.

  19. 19
    ArchTeryx says:

    And she also needs to introduce AHCA repeal, as many times as necessary to make it stick. It’s what the Republicans just successfully did – keep voting and campaigning on ACA repeal until they had the trifecta and could make it stick.

    It’s nothing more then a totalitarian purge of the poor, the sick, and the elderly, and it means that fascism has truly come home to our shores.

  20. 20

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That is right on. She made it look easy.

  21. 21
    ArchTeryx says:

    @MomSense: Unfortunately cutting out the looney left just leaves us with an even smaller minority then we had before. Without them, we lose elections, period. The right embraced their loonies and now has a governing majority because of it.

  22. 22
    Immanentize says:

    Here is a wonderful reminder that Nancy Smash was critical to passing the ACA in the first place .
    (Warning: GOS)

  23. 23
    Betty Cracker says:

    Let’s just hope Kathleen Rice, Tim Ryan, et al, can keep their big fat yaps shut today so we can focus on the monstrous Trumpcare bill.

  24. 24
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Remember that cop who got “caught in the crossfire” I was talking about yesterday? Remember I said he was probably shot by a fellow cop? Well….

    At Barnes-Jewish Hospital early Thursday, Interim Police Chief Lawrence O’Toole told reporters the off-duty officer had come out of his home to help after the stolen car crashed nearby, and was hit in the crossfire between officers and suspects who had been in the car.

    But police now say the off-duty officer was shot by a fellow cop who did not recognize him as an officer, in a separate encounter away from the initial crash. According to a department summary of the incident released later Thursday, two officers who encountered the armed off-duty officer ordered him to the ground. He complied. When they recognized the off-duty officer, they told him he could stand up and walk toward them. Another officer just arriving at the scene saw the off-duty officer get up and, not knowing he was an officer, fired his weapon once at the man. He hit the off-duty officer in the arm, the department said.

    The Post-Dispatch first reported those details Thursday morning based on police sources with knowledge of the shooting. The department media office later confirmed them.

    Can anybody guess the race of the cop who got shot? Can anybody guess the race of the cop who did the shooting? Obviously nothing is more dangerous than a black man standing up.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @ArchTeryx: We’ve already lost the election. The pertinent question is whether we could gain more votes than we lose if we can defend ourselves from attacks from the left rather than having to accommodate them.

  26. 26
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Keystone Cold Killers

  27. 27
    Baud says:


    Māori and Inuit?

  28. 28
    MomSense says:


    If we focus on making sure all our voters are able to vote given the voter roll purges, ID laws, and other forms of suppression we win elections. You can chase the loonies all you like but they will never help us win.

  29. 29
    Hal says:

    I was listening to Slate’s Political Gabfest podcast with Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson and guest Julia Ioffe. Ioffe made a point that Dems would be replacing Pelosi to please Republicans. At one point she asks “Do you sacrifice your team captain to the other team if you’re losing”? To me that is what replacing Pelosi essentially is, unless you replace her with someone in the house who is very progressive and to the left, you are left with blue dogs and dems who are more interested in fake bipartisanship than actually offering up fundamental party differences to the American public.

  30. 30
    MJS says:

    @Elizabelle: Same question I had for Amanda – when, exactly, were the Republicans going to confirm an Obama Supreme Court nominee? We know they created a “rule” about no nominees in an election year. Do you have any confidence that that rule wouldn’t have been expanded to 2-3 years if RBG had resigned? We saw they paid exactly zero consequences for refusing to even consider Obama’s last nominee.

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: You get 3 guesses and the first 2 don’t count.

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    The Pelosi debate is so stupid it makes me wonder whether Republicans don’t deserve to be in power.

  33. 33

    @Baud: So sad to see the Baud has sold out to the neoliberal establishment. Sad.

  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m not good at guessing.

  35. 35
    Emma says:

    Can anyone explain to me why so many Democrats have already forgotten that THE DAMN REPUBLICANS WERE NOT GOING TO VOTE TO CONFIRM ANOTHER OBAMA APPOINTEE TO THE SUPREME COURT? If RBG had retired you would have ended up with two, COUNT THEM, two more conservative Republicans on the highest bench.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I get discounts on car rentals.

  37. 37

    Would be nice if the Dems could resist the shiny objects the Repubs dangle at them.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: That’s why you get 3, just because you’re special.

  39. 39

    Getting ready for my trip tomorrow; charged and updated the Surface Pro, got extra batteries for the cameras coming, and need to gas up the Prius. It’ll be about a 150 mile drive each way.

  40. 40
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: SQUIRREL!

  41. 41
  42. 42

    @Baud: Joshua Tree National Park for Milky Way shots.

  43. 43
    Elizabelle says:

    @ArchTeryx: The loony left that will vote for us, fine. The loony left that supported Jill Stein and Gary Johnson when Trump was on the ticket, that were too pure for Hillary: screw them. They certainly screwed us.

    I know one of these unicorns. A friend’s sister. I like her; she’s a wonderful artist, but she lost at least 10 perceived IQ points, IMHO, and I will not take her seriously ever again.

    These folks are not gettable. Move on to working on nonvoters and infrequent voters who will listen to us. And I guess we are supposed to be talking values, not necessarily facts. (Although the facts are in our favor.) But values might be the way to get through.

    Berkeley author George Lakoff says, ‘Don’t underestimate Trump’

    … As far back as 2006, Lakoff saw the writing on the wall. “A dark cloud of authoritarianism looms over the nation,” he wrote in his book Thinking Points, A Progressive’s Handbook. ”Radical conservatives have taken over the reins of government and have been controlling the terms of the political debate for many years.” The progressives couldn’t hear him, either.

    Lakoff’s message is simple, but it is couched in the language of cognitive linguistics and neuroscience. The problem is that political candidates rely on pollsters and PR people, not linguists or neuroscientists. So when Lakoff repeatedly says that “voters don’t vote their self-interest, they vote their values,” progressive politicians continually ignore him. His ideas don’t fit in with their worldview, so they can’t hear him.

    But a worldview is exactly what Lakoff is talking about. “Ideas don’t float in the air, they live in your neuro-circuitry,” Lakoff said. Each time ideas in our neural circuits are activated, they get stronger. And over time, complexes of neural circuits create a frame through which we view the world. “The problem is, that frame is unconscious,” Lakoff said. “You aren’t aware of it because you don’t have access to your neural circuits.” So what happens when you hear facts that don’t fit in your worldview is that you can’t process them: you might ignore them, or reject or attack them, or literally not hear them.

    This theory explains why even college-educated Trump voters could ignore so many facts about their candidate. And it also explains why progressives have been ignoring Lakoff’s findings for more than two decades. Progressives are still living in the world of Descartes and the Enlightenment, Lakoff said, a neat world governed by the rules of logic. Descartes said, “I think therefore I am,” but Lakoff claims that we are embodied beings and that 98 percent of thought is unconscious.

    …. So if you are going to craft a message that can reach people who disagree with you, you have to understand their subconscious worldview. Lakoff calls this worldview a “frame,” and claims that Republicans have done a much better job with framing over the past 30 or 40 years. Republicans understand the narrative that governs many people in this country, and they target their message directly to that worldview. Democrats, on the other hand, ignore the worldview and focus instead on rationality, facts and policies.

    Can’t hurt. Talk about values; tell them a (shortish!) story about why ___ is important to you and your values.

    It’s a really good article. Author mentions Democratic operatives tend to have studied poli sci related stuff in college. Republicans are more likely to be marketers.

    And, stupid and incoherent as many of his statements are, Trump gets to the point, rather quickly. Some people find that refreshing. We are lucky he is as incompetent as he is.

    Also discussed the conservatives’ strict father family ideal, vs. more liberal nurturant parent family ideal.

  44. 44
    Immanentize says:

    @Elizabelle: I am probably closer to the issue of Supreme Court practice than anyone else here. RGB was not selfish for staying on the Court, she has been saving lives. Even her friendships with Scalia and Kennedy — and their mutual respect — led to progressive wins and not as bad losses. Would a centrist like Garland, even if such a person had been confirmed, fought so hard over the last few years for women? Minorities? Voting rights? Juveniles? No no no no.

    I like what Justice Marshall said when people asked him when he was going to leave the Court: “I was appointed for life and I intend to fulfill my appointment.”

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Too cool. Looking forward to the photos.

  46. 46
    ThresherK says:

    Spousal ThresherK was already the biggest Aimee Mann fan.

    Aimee’s recurring role as Opal on Steven Universe upped that.

    This tweet will make my wife’s fandom stratospheric.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    This is kinda embarrassing, or would be if she had survived: Exploding cream dispenser kills French fitness blogger All that exercise and eating only the “right” foods, and she gets killed by a can of whipped cream.

  48. 48
    Elizabelle says:

    @Emma: RBG stays until the Democratic nominee is confirmed. Otherwise, she does not retire.

    It’s awful to have the Republicans fucking up the works like that. I can’t believe so many people have no idea how unprecedented it is.

  49. 49
    Spanky says:

    Bombshell up at the top of the WaPo this AM. Although maybe “bombshell” should be in scare quotes, since its what we’ve endlessly hashed over here.

    Still, it’s now out there, all in one place:

    Obama’s secret struggle to punish Russia for Putin’s election assault

    Can’t wait for Twitler’s tweets on this one.

  50. 50
    MJS says:

    @Emma: I’ve asked that question twice now, but no one can explain it to me, either.

  51. 51
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: And that’s an excellent point. I wish RBG a long and productive life, many more administrations worth.

    It’s awful to have everything be such a battle. It is an undeclared war. I think I might stay off the internets the rest of the day. Already sad and depressed, and it’s a beautiful Friday (and St. Juan’s holiday) in Spain today. Firecracker day.

  52. 52
    Lapassionara says:

    @MomSense: This! I like Kay’s suggestion that Dems spend money putting organizers in areas where voter disenfranchisement laws have been enacted, and start helping people get the documents they need to vote, and making sure they can get to the polls. We need focus on places where registration rolls have been purged, etc. Jason Kander is going around talking about helping people vote, but is anyone doing more than talk?

    Good morning, everyone.

  53. 53
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @MJS: January 2009-January 2015.

  54. 54
    Immanentize says:

    @Elizabelle: I so envy you your Spanish life right now. Can I come visit?

  55. 55
    Rp says:

    Obama did get two justices confirmed. If rbg had retired early in his second term he could have replaced her.

  56. 56
    Elizabelle says:

    @MJS: They lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. And I have my doubts about that Electoral College “victory.”

    Anyway, no way to know about RBG, is there? So, it is a moronic discussion to be having. (I should not have taken Amanda’s bait.) We can’t go back and unshoot Abraham Lincoln either.

  57. 57
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Immanentize: I know, its shocking that I should be upset that a 70 something justice in poor health didn’t retire when the Democrats controlled both the Senate and the White House. I look forward to the perpetual 6-3 coming conservative majority.

  58. 58
    bemused says:

    I did not realize that 50% of US births are funded by Medicaid. GOP’s brilliant plan. Make birth control and abortion services even more difficult or impossible for women to get and then cut off baby delivery funding for half of American babies. They truly deserve to be called baby killers.

  59. 59
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: Yes! Have to come before Bastille Day — have to leave in about 3 weeks, sadly. But it’s been a great stay.

    But I am plotting to move here more permanently. I am sickened by what’s going on in the USA. Don’t know if I can make that happen, but I am going to try.

    @Rp: that’s what I think too. But, again, we can’t change the past. It’s done.

    All health and happiness to the Notorious RBG, and the Obamas, and all of us. We deserve it.

  60. 60
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Rp: Or anytime in his first? There were 6 years of combined White House + Senate control.

  61. 61
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    I know Nancy SMASH has been a thing here for years, but the Democratic Party doesn’t need 70 something year old leadership. And I fucking hate Blue Dog/rust belt Bernie Bros.

  62. 62
    Hal says:

    @bemused: And Nursing Homes rely enormously on Medicaid funding. I wonder how many white working class voters with parents in nursing homes realize what is about to come down on them if this bill is signed into law.

  63. 63
    Spanky says:

    @Spanky: Also too, a nifty timeline.

  64. 64
    Elizabelle says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: I trust Nancy Smash. Conrad Adenauer of West Germany got a lot done in his 80s.

    Agree, we need to make room for our rising stars. But no reason to sideline Ms. Pelosi, who is a star.

  65. 65
    different-church-lady says:

    @ArchTeryx: Oh, wonderful: a future of hot looney-on-looney action.

  66. 66
    Emma says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: Jesus, do the math. They were not going to allow a liberal majority in the Supreme Court. They were safe in letting two through. Scalia’s death threw them for a loop but they coalesced around keeping the conservative majority. Period.

    And there was “Senate control” if you conveniently forget all the “moderate” Democrats who were NOT ON OUR SIDE and voted accordingly when it suited them.

  67. 67
  68. 68
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Emma: Ginsburg retiring during 2009-2015wouldn’t have affected the majority on the court. Go fuck yourself.

  69. 69
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: You have to ask yourself if that’s really great for the long term health of the CA Democratic Party, if its difficult to move up in the ranks like that.

  70. 70
    efgoldman says:


    Unfortunately cutting out the looney left just leaves us with an even smaller minority then we had before. Without them, we lose elections, period.

    Wrong. They either don’t vote at all, or they vote for idiot assholes like DrJill. They do NOT EVER soil themselves by working for actual Dem candidates that can get elected. They are of no more use to us electorally than the mouth breathing flying monkeys are.

  71. 71
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: but the Democratic Party doesn’t need 70 something year old leadership who know what they are doing and accomplish things that the Democrats want done. Finished that for you.

  72. 72
    Elizabelle says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I love Governor Jerry. Got to vote for him in 2010. Was a Cali resident then. Such a pleasure.

    And look forward to pics from your trip. Have a great one.

    Am giving some thought to coming out to LA area in July, but nothing firm yet. Will let you know if trip is confirmed …

  73. 73
    different-church-lady says:

    Hey, we finally toppled the evil harpy Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and look how well that turned out!

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    The War on the Olds is getting tiresome. One of the benefits of our party’s weakened condition is that there are plenty of opportunities for younger people to exercise leadership and prove themselves in the field.

  75. 75

    @Amanda in the South Bay: There are lots of folk in the CA Democratic Party that can move up, not that I’m happy with all of them. Gov. Brown had to move back up the ladder of CA politics after his Senate loss in 1982 and failed Presidential campaign in 1992.

  76. 76
    daveNYC says:

    Removing Pelosi would be a waste. I understand the annoyance of trying to campaign as a moderate and getting hit by ads blah-blahing about Pelosi’s San Francisco Values, but any Democratic candidate is going to get slammed with that sort of crap anyway. So removing her would be a waste of an effective leader and have no impact on the Republican attacks.

    That said, we do need to start cultivating potential replacements for our Congressional leadership. If Pelosi gets hit by a bus I’d prefer it if the resulting leadership race weren’t a complete shitshow of stupidity.

  77. 77
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: I am going to pray that Mrs. Imm’s health improves, and that you and family Imm get to make a beeline for Barcelona. It’s the most beautiful city ever. No bad days here. None.

  78. 78
    Peale says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: fine. But the congressional leadership of the party is not decided by us. It’s decided by congressmen. They made a decision in January that Nancy Smash will continue as leader in this Congress. Tim Ryan failed in his bid to unseat her. He did not have enough support from other congressmen.

    If he wants to bitch and mean about how the democrats have spent too much time chasing after Bernie voters that they are leaving out Blue Dogs, I guess that’s fine. But quit going after Nancy’s job in this congress. It’s petty. If he wants to unseat her, he needs to work with other congressmen to form a coalition that will vote against her in the future. Not run his stupid mouth to the press.

  79. 79
    Amir Khalid says:

    I am thinking about adding to my bucket list the learning of a musical instrument, almost certainly electric guitar. I’m well aware that nothing irritates neighbours more than hearing beginner’s exercises bungled over and over and over again; so I intend to use a bedroom amp with headphones, which will be quieter than an acoustic guitar. I’ve picked out a cheap but well-featured such amp. Now I’m looking at the Squier Affinity Telecaster with a maple neck. I found at several online shopping sites one in brown sunburst for RM839 and one in black for RM1 100. I much prefer the looks of the black Tele. Should I pay the difference?

  80. 80
    Bobby Thomson says:

    The “coup attempt” has “petered out.” Translation: an overwhelming majority of elected Democrats like and respect her and aren’t dumbass douchebros. Little shits who blame her because their constituents are assholes will never want for media attention.

  81. 81
    different-church-lady says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I remember about 15 years ago I saw an ad for digital photography that touted the benefits over analog with the headline, “Why trust your memories to 100 year old technology?”

    And I thought, “Because if something’s been around for 100 years it’s probably because it’s pretty damn trustworthy?”

    I wonder if other cultures have this problem where they think old automatically equals bad.

  82. 82

    @Elizabelle: I voted for him in 1978(twice*) and 1982(twice* for Senate). I’m sure the local jackals could arrange a get together while you’re visiting.

    *Primary and General.

  83. 83
    MJS says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: Yes, RBG should have known that Republicans in 2016 would abandon all decency and begin to refuse to consider a Democrat’s nominee to the SC, and resigned sometime between 2009-2015. Of course, she would have also had to foresee Trump’s victory. But maybe she did see all these things, but also can see that she’s going to live to be 120.

  84. 84
    Emma says:

    Pie filter works!

  85. 85
    MomSense says:


    The people pushing to get rid of Pelosi are not rising stars. They have zero interest in building the party or cultivating leaders. The problem we have is that people who rise to leadership have to come from safe seats. Those safe seats are in places like San Francisco. I’m old enough to remember when Massachusetts liberal was the preferred GOP bogeyman liberal and you bet that had a lot to do with the Kennedy family and Tip O’Neill. Same as it ever was.

    Nancy Smash was the next Tip O’Neill and when the next Nancy Smash is the identifiable leader of the party s/he and her district will also be vilified.

  86. 86
    Baud says:


    I wonder if other cultures have this problem where they think old automatically equals bad

    I think intergenerational conflict is a theme that conservative elites have nurtured to prevent people from unifying against them.

  87. 87
    bemused says:


    Yes! Medicare doesn’t pay for nursing home care so if an elderly person or couple only have SS income, they have to rely on Medicaid if they can’t live on their own anymore. I’m getting a little tired of media describing Medicaid services as just for the poor. Elderly middle class folks could easily end up poor enough to qualify for Medicaid funded nursing home care if they have serious and expensive health care issues.

    People are learning a lot more about Medicaid and who and what it pays for. I also didn’t know 1 in 10 vets are on Medicaid.

  88. 88
    MomSense says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Yes, of course you should pick the instrument that catches your fancy. This is an act of passion, Amir. Besides, black teles are cool. Now go get your rock star on!

  89. 89

    @MJS: Actually after 2013 the Republicans could have filibustered a Supreme Court nominee.

  90. 90
    Peale says:

    @Bobby Thomson: he’s such an incompetent prick. Perhaps the coup plotters should learn how to get backing from other congressmen and learn how to whip votes before running off to whine on MSNBC about what great leaders they’d be.

  91. 91
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @different-church-lady: It gets tiresome. I understand Amanda’s desire for some younger people in leadership positions, but not at the expense of experience and success. When Nancy is no longer capable of doing the job, and she has been doing it better than anyone since Tip O’Neal, her fellow congressional DEMs will know what needs to be done, and at that point somebody will step forward. Somebody always does. How effective they will be is always a crap shoot as it is a very difficult job.

  92. 92
    Elizabelle says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yes! Learn electric guitar. You can do it quietly, actually. Bianca can accompany on tambourine. That might be louder.

    @MomSense: interesting point. Also Baud’s about intergenerational conflict.

  93. 93
    Elizabelle says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yes. I have something I would like to do. It involves wiener dogs.

    Would love to meet the SoCal Juice contingent.

  94. 94
    Elizabelle says:

    For any Tarheel state Juicers: here are Thom Tills and Richard Burr office numbers. Call them about TrumpCare. No, no, no to it. Heck, go protest at their local offices, or talk to their nice staff.

    For Tillis:

    Washington, D.C.

    185 Dirksen Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: (202) 224-6342
    Fax: (202) 228-2563


    9300 Harris Corners Pkwy
    Suite 170
    Charlotte, NC 28269
    Phone: 704-509-9087
    Fax: 704-509-9162


    1694 E. Arlington Blvd.
    Suite B
    Greenville, NC 27858
    Phone: (252) 329-0371
    Fax: (252) 329-0290


    Phone: (828) 693-8750
    Fax: (828) 693-9724

    High Point

    1840 Eastchester Dr.
    Suite 200
    High Point, NC 27265
    Phone: (336) 885-0685
    Fax: (336) 885-0692


    310 New Bern Avenue
    Suite 122
    Raleigh, NC 27601
    Phone: (919) 856-4630
    Fax: (919) 856-4053

  95. 95
    gvg says:

    @MJS: She should have retired right after Obama was sworn in, while we had both houses. Very simple. Her health issues were known before the election and I really hoped she was going to retire right then. I consider her selfish for not doing it. This has been discussed multiple times for years, but as time passes, these things get forgotten. Obama DID get 2 other picks through so early on it was possible, not impossible, and pretending it wasn’t is annoying.

  96. 96

    The Washington Post article that @Spanky linked is really worth reading. It actually goes through some of the considerations that Obama faced in deciding what to do about the Russian hacking, rather than just saying that Bad Obama didn’t magically stop the hacking or properly punish Bad Putin. We haven’t really worked out a strategy of cyberwar yet. It’s a very, very difficult problem. And the situation before the election was about as difficult as it gets. Plus Mitch McConnell was helping the bad guys with his thoroughgoing partisanship.

  97. 97
    Elizabelle says:

    For Richard Burr:


    Federal Building
    151 Patton Avenue
    Suite 204
    Asheville, NC 28801
    P: (828) 350-2437
    F: (828) 350-2439


    2000 West First Street
    Suite 508
    Winston-Salem, NC 27104
    P: (800) 685-8916
    P: (336) 631-5125
    F: (336) 725-4493


    201 North Front Street
    Suite 809
    Wilmington, NC 28401
    P: (888) 848-1833
    P: (910) 251-1058
    F: (910) 251-7975

    Rocky Mount

    100 Coast Line Street
    Room 210
    Rocky Mount, NC 27804
    P: (252) 977-9522
    F: (252) 977-7902

    Washington, DC

    217 Russell Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510
    P: (202) 224-3154
    F: (202) 228-2981

  98. 98
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Pelosi’s predecessor was Dick Gephardt

    He sucked at his job.

    White male from heartland Missouri, son of a milkman, who stood shoulder to shoulder with Bush on invading Iraq and we lost seats.

    And losers who think cutting and running and hiring a white guy will work don’t remember how the republican media tarred and feathered Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschel. Here was a blue-dog from deep red South Dakota, who often blamed his own party for not reaching out to republicans and they still turned him into a latte drinking hippie.

  99. 99

    @bemused: And middle-class people don’t even need big health expenses to wind up on Medicaid–they just need Alzheimers. My mother cared for my father but after he died, she wound up in an Alzheimers facility at a cost of $8000/month–and that was 10 years ago. Few people can afford that out of pocket, be they the old person or their kids.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    talk to their nice staff.

    I have to say that people who aide and abet a pogrom against the poor and middle class for the sole benefit of the rich are not “nice”.

  101. 101
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Agreed. The notion that there is a Dem that won’t be demonized by Republicans is silly. If that’s really the concern, give the job to Joe Lieberman. He has he best shot of playing nice with the GOP.

  102. 102
    weaselone says:


    And yet there she is still kicking more than 8 years later. There’s no guarantees. She could have retired and been replaced by a relatively young judge who keeled over from an aneurism, heart attack or run over by a bus 2 weeks after Scalia died.

  103. 103
    kd bart says:

    @MomSense: In the recent GA-6 election, the GOP was still using Jane Fonda to represent Hollywood in their negative ads

  104. 104
    gvg says:


    And there was “Senate control” if you conveniently forget all the “moderate” Democrats who were NOT ON OUR SIDE and voted accordingly when it suited them.

    For pete’s sake, that is silly. Blue dogs waver on complicated legislation, not on Supreme Court appointments. Besides, early on Obama and the Democrats got plenty done. Don’t ignore facts. Besides I was saying she should have retired first, right away. She was the one with the worst known health issues. And I don’t see that she was so much more fair and liberal than other younger Judges.

  105. 105
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    I was listening to Kasie Hunt on MSNBC and she made two points:

    1: not a single gop senator embraced the bill, yesterday. Not one. Most refused to go on camera, some actually ran away from her, and the ones who didn’t only stopped by to criticize the bill.

    2. she says gop senators are waiting to see if they’ll get pushback this weekend. if they get alot it will chill their vote.

    Now I’ll add a history lesson: back in 2007 Dubya wanted to pass immigration reform. but the pushback they received was strong so they decided to vote against it.

    They brought the bill back to the floor a couple of months later and the same thing happened again. This time, even McConnell voted against it.

    So they’re getting close to taking a vote, but if there’s enough pushback they will go wobbly.

  106. 106
    MomSense says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Obama wasn’t just concerned that statements he or his administration made would be viewed as partisan, McConnell threatened to do exactly that. Judging by the pathetic nature of the election coverage at the time, that was not an idle threat. And we have to think back to the context of candidate Trump bloviating about how the elections were rigged, believe me. He wanted everyone to expect the Obama administration, Clinton campaign, and Democratic party to try and sway the election against him. The other thing that I have wondered about with the revelations about state elections systems being hacked, is to what extent those voter registration problems Sanders supporters claimed were evidence of DNC fixing the primaries were actually Russian active measures. And if the DNC emails, etc were hacked I don’t doubt that our Voter software could also have been hacked. Our internal polling is based on that data. Campaign decisions about where to put resources are based on that data.

  107. 107
    Amir Khalid says:

    At first I was considering the iconic butterscotch colour, like Bruce’s and Keef’s favourite Fender Teles, but then I realised I was too old to pose before a mirror and pretend to be one of them …

  108. 108
    Florida Frog says:

    @Elizabelle: How are you going about making your stay permanent? Are you eligible for permanent residency. Some of us faced with losing our health insurance next year may have to think a little more broadly about our options and I has wondering how feasible it is to live overseas. Thanks.

  109. 109
    Nelle says:

    @Baud: I may be the only reader here who has lived in communities of both Maori and Inuit. Kaktovik, Alaska and North Island of New Zealand.

  110. 110
    bemused says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Yes! There are too many middle class people, imo, that don’t realize that massive GOP Medicaid cuts would affect them in many ways, not just the “poor”. I hope they are waking up.

  111. 111
    MJS says:

    @gvg: Pretending that liberal SCJs should 1) be able to see the future and 2) volunteer to resign based on that foresight is annoying.

  112. 112
    MomSense says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You could do what my son did and get all the colors. He just bought a really nice butterscotch and I think that is his current favorite guitar baby but it could change next week.

    I have to say that I love that you are taking up the guitar. Can’t wait to hear all about your musical adventures.

  113. 113
    gvg says:

    @weaselone: there are no guarantee’s ever on health, but right now it’s extremely likely she will die while the GOP controls and is more toxic insane than I can comprehend. We need to win multiple years of elections to get enough sanity back into our nominating process to get some more sane judges ruling. It would not be such a risk if she had thought more strategically and selflessly back then. I think she was selfish. People are going to die over SC decisions so I get pretty worked up about this. The odd’s of this scenario were pretty clearly getting higher all during the last 15? years. I was worried all during Bush Jr’s term and relieved when Obama was elected with both houses.

  114. 114
    Emma says:

    @gvg: Really? You pinky promise they wouldn’t have?

    You know what? Never mind. Keep running down the effective leaders and trying to install self-aggrandizing incompetents. It’s the end of Empire, after all.

  115. 115

    @Baud: We have to stand up for ourselves. Tolerating the bad behavior of BS and his supporters has just emboldened them. They are in no mood for any reconciliation.

  116. 116
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: Daschle just put out an article were he blames the lack of civility on….. wait for it… Democrats.

    Former Democratic Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle says Democrats are more to blame in the destruction of “institutional pillars” of the upper chamber than Republicans.

    Sadly, I think at his advanced age, he’s losing his barring.

  117. 117
    Amir Khalid says:

    Another problem is digital storage formats. How are we to pick a format for archival purposes if they keep getting obsoleted by a new and improved format every few years?

  118. 118
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Please stop trying to distract us from taking about Nancy Pelosi. It won’t work.

  119. 119
    Peale says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: yep. And that’s what the GOP and media want. Good ol’ democrats who’ll vote with the GOP. And then when those Dems run, they’ll be shocked to learn that democratic voters aren’t in the mood for that right now because pointing to a list of things you did to help republicans isn’t a winner.

  120. 120
    hovercraft says:

    Republicans hate Madame Leader because she’s good at her job, better at it than their wunderkind, the media hates her because she doesn’t do a lot of media, she’s boring, and she’s got old lady cooties, unlike the sexy young gun on the other side. The fact that all those republicans chimed in yesterday to try to reverse psychology us into dumping her tells you all you need to know.

    All Hail The Queen, Long Live The Queen.

  121. 121

    @Amir Khalid: obsoleted? Sounds like a Dubya creation. BTW how have you been? And how is the pinky finger?

  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @Nelle: Sounds like a story.

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Wow. I had always thought kindly of him until now.

  123. 123
    O. Felix Culpa says:


    The other thing that I have wondered about with the revelations about state elections systems being hacked, is to what extent those voter registration problems Sanders supporters claimed were evidence of DNC fixing the primaries were actually Russian active measures.

    Interesting question. Makes much more sense for them to have been Russian measures. I can’t picture the DNC having the means (or motivation) to mess with voter registration.

  124. 124
    MomSense says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    I still remember that photo of Gephardt and Daschle with Bush seated between them as Bush discussed Iraq. The look on Gephardt’s face said he had just been handed a manilla envelope with some interesting 8×10 glossies. Of course I have no evidence that is what happened and he could just have a resting blackmailed face.

  125. 125
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Assuming the media isn’t misrepresenting what he said. That sometimes happens.

  126. 126
    gvg says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Uhh…..yes but they didn’t want immigration reform. Bush was trying to buck a long term trend in his party because he thought it would be better for them in the long run. I also think he isn’t a bigot himself and knew it was right and I certainly hope the GOP’s anti immigrant hurts them down the line. So Bush was using his position to try to influence his party and stopping it was easier than stopping them from continuing what they have been doing for 8 years… it goes back to at least Clinton.
    I do think it’s worth trying to stop it, I just don’t think your example is the best. Maybe when Bush tried to get them to privatize SS and they got pushback and stopped is a better example?

  127. 127

    @MomSense: Exactly. McConnell was doing Russia’s work for them. Useful idiot at least.

    Your other questions are some of what the inquiries into Russian hacking should be addressing.

  128. 128
    Amir Khalid says:

    Pinky finger is oddly shaped and a little hard to bend, but still attached. As I plan on playing right-handed (despite being a southpaw) I’m hoping it won’t be too much of a problem on the fretboard.

  129. 129
    gene108 says:


    Same question I had for Amanda – when, exactly, were the Republicans going to confirm an Obama Supreme Court nominee? We know they created a “rule” about no nominees in an election year. Do you have any confidence that that rule wouldn’t have been expanded to 2-3 years if RBG had resigned? We saw they paid exactly zero consequences for refusing to even consider Obama’s last nominee.

    When she was first diagnosed with cancer, Dems held a majority in the Senate.

    They could have confirmed a replacement on a straight party line vote.

  130. 130
    Kay says:

    John Kasich was out yesterday giving quotes to every Ohio paper and local tv station opposing the health care bill, as was Sherrod Brown.

    Tim Ryan was busy attacking Nancy Pelosi to an audience of national political reporters.

    That’s really all you need to know about Ryan’s skill as a strategist for the Democratic Party. John Kasich does a better job.

  131. 131
    O. Felix Culpa says:


    I think she was selfish.

    Interesting. A pattern of attacks begins to emerge: HRC, Loretta Lynch, Susan Rice, Nancy SMASH, RBG, the infinitely evil DWS…

    What could the common thread be, I wonder?

  132. 132
    Elizabelle says:


    resting blackmailed face.

    That’s great. LOL.

  133. 133
    O. Felix Culpa says:


    Assuming the media isn’t misrepresenting what he said. That sometimes happens.

    Say it ain’t so! My last remaining illusion is shattered (sob).

  134. 134
    MomSense says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The other thing that stands out more now with the benefit of hindsight is how all of that bloviating trump did about rigged elections caused everyone involved with voting in states and the federal government to make reassuring statements about the integrity of our elections. That sort of puts a damper on the ability of officials to say something happened after the election.

  135. 135

    @Kay: Curious to know if has any Russian connections, what about Rice? @O. Felix Culpa: Bros have been out attacking Kamala Harris too, as shrill.

  136. 136
    Elizabelle says:

    @Florida Frog: As soon as I have a plan, and better guidance on what is possible, I will share it.

    Still have to meet with some other expats here.

  137. 137

    @MomSense: So when T was going on and on about rigged elections, did the Russians plant that seed or was it just T lies.

  138. 138
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    but then I realised I was too old to pose before a mirror and pretend to be one of them …

    Bruce is 67.

  139. 139
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yup. Competent wimmenz is dangerous. It frustrates me how much they get attacked from our side too. Misogyny as bipartisan effort. Sigh.

  140. 140
    mai naem mobile says:

    Really disappointed that Ruben Gallego was none of the ones who showed up. Idiotic move. Makes me think he ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer .

  141. 141
    Amir Khalid says:

    Also too, it’s perfectly okay to use “obsolete” as a verb in some contexts e.g. describing an official action or (as I did here) a technology shift. Trust me on this.

  142. 142
    MJS says:

    Attention all Dem lady politicians and political appointees – please be aware that you will henceforth be expected to resign upon 1) attaining the age of 70 and/or 2) the discovery of a health issue. Applies only to Dems who have lady parts. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

  143. 143


    The other thing that stands out more now with the benefit of hindsight is how all of that bloviating trump did about rigged elections caused everyone involved with voting in states and the federal government to make reassuring statements about the integrity of our elections. That sort of puts a damper on the ability of officials to say something happened after the election.

    Also a good point.

    Since Trump tends to spew out whatever is on his mind, one might also wonder why he talked so much about rigged elections, whether he knew someone was rigging them.

  144. 144
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MomSense: Never trust a man without eyebrows.

  145. 145
    MomSense says:


    I hope we find out. One of my good friends texted me on election night “the election is rigged, believe me” and wow it certainly seems we were the ones being played.

  146. 146
    Amir Khalid says:

    And Keef is 73. But that posing-in-the-mirror stuff — I ain’t 14 anymore, man.

  147. 147
    WereBear says:

    @Amir Khalid: I found at several online shopping sites one in brown sunburst for RM839 and one in black for RM1 100. I much prefer the looks of the black Tele. Should I pay the difference?

    I hope you will love it and will be looking at it lots, and for a long time. I say Yes.

  148. 148

    @Amir Khalid: I do. I had just never seen it used that way, before. Also too, good that you didn’t say,

    believe me

  149. 149
    debit says:

    @Emma: Yep!!

  150. 150
    Peale says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: shut up shut up shut up! He’s still 35!

  151. 151
    weaselone says:


    Exactly. Every second of any exposure a Democrat gets should be spent on bashing Wealthcare and the Republicans. Conversations should go like this

    Media Bot: Congressman, what do you think about whether Nancy Pelosi should…

    Congressman: Let me tell you about the weather. The day was bright and clear, but that light was no more able to pierce the blackened, shriveled heart of Mitch McConnel than the light of Jesus Christ on the day he took the ACHA from the claws of Satan and defiled the Senate with its evil.

  152. 152
    Kay says:


    He’s been attacking Pelosi since 2006, so I don’t think it’s Russia. His whole thing is “I’m a fighter!” but he actually runs in a very safe district and he passed on an opportunity to challenge both Portman and Kasich. No one really wanted Ted Strickland against Portman but no one younger or more competitive would run because Portman was strong.

    I’m sorry but he’s just bad at this. It’s unforgivable to me that he chose yesterday to launch this campaign. It was dumb. You know who FOX led with all day? Tim Ryan. Ohio newspapers were reaching as far as Pennsylvania for quotes from Democrats on the health care bill. They got them from the Pennsylvania governor.

    A lot of people thought he should run for governor (that actually makes some sense) but he after yesterday’s brilliant move I hope he doesn’t.

  153. 153

    @MomSense: Its hard to believe that the collusion stopped only with the person occupying the post of the President currently.

  154. 154
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MJS: Heh.

  155. 155
    MomSense says:

    BTW Jane Sanders has lawyered up in the Burlington College/loan mess.

  156. 156
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    Two major points I think you’re either unaware or forgetting. One, the Democratic Party had a Senate Majority of 60 for like a minute in 2009-2010 (remember It took months to get Al Franken seated and Ted Kennedy died. I figured it out once; IIRC the necessary majority existed for only about 6-8 months).

    Thus with Justice Ginsburg, even if she had resigned, there was hardly any time to confirm her replacement by anyone even remotely as liberal as she was. And the second point is that, understanding something about Obama’s views he would never have picked someone as obviously liberal as she was when she was confirmed. Plus when he did have an opening that summer, when he had his chance, he picked Sonia Sotomayor.

    Lastly I’m just going to paste some chronology from Wikipedia:

    Al Franken

    On June 30, 2009, the Minnesota Supreme Court unanimously rejected Coleman’s appeal and said that Franken was entitled to be certified as the winner. Shortly after the court’s decision, Coleman conceded. Governor Tim Pawlenty signed Franken’s election certificate that same evening.

    Sonia Sotomayor

    Sotomayor’s nomination was submitted to the United States Senate on June 1, 2009, when the 111th Congress reconvened after its Memorial Day recess. Sotomayor was confirmed by the U.S. Senate on August 6, 2009 by a 68–31 vote and was commissioned by President Obama the same day.

  157. 157
    MomSense says:


    It’s hard to believe because it’s not believable.

  158. 158

    @Kay: Thanks for the clarification, your explanation makes a lot of sense.

  159. 159
    MomSense says:


    OMG I wish you had told me that a looooong time ago.

  160. 160
    Elizabelle says:

    @weaselone: “I appreciate Nancy Pelosi’s leadership in shepherding the Affordable Care Act to passage, and work with her enthusiastically to help protect the Affordable Care Act, also called ObamaCare, and its affordable healthcare for American families. Preventative care, maternal and well woman care, no pre-existing conditions refusals, allowing young people coverage on their families’ policies to age 26. TrumpCare accomplishes none of those goals, and I stand with Nancy Pelosi in opposing it. In all other leading democracies, universal healthcare is a right, and they are able to cover their citizens and obtain better outcomes at less cost than in the US. We are the outlier there. We can do better. No family should face bankruptcy over medical bills.”

    Big smile.

  161. 161
    Florida Frog says:

    @Elizabelle: Thanks, Elizabelle. I have checked into expat health insurance and while it is not inexpensive, it does seem to be doable. I am assuming that other countries would not welcome Americans into their national health system. I don’t blame them- e haven’t paid in.

  162. 162
    Aleta says:

    @MomSense: About the wonderful cat, my cousin says he can’t apply right now. sigh.

  163. 163
    Ohio Mom says:

    @bemused: You left out that when a disproportionate number of those kids have developmental disabilities triggered by lack of prenatal care/premature births, cut supports and funding for people with disabilities.

  164. 164
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Peale: Who cares about him, it’s my age I find troublesome.

  165. 165
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Can someone remind me what the horri-bad super controversial thing Nancy Pelosi did was? Because to me it’s almost as though a perfectly anodyne verging on boring woman is being caricatured and scapegoated for nothing. But it’s probably not that. :P

  166. 166

    Lawyerly Denizens of BJ, what is a good book about the history of the Constitution, the original document and the subsequent amendments. There is a lot of right wing chaff out there about the document, which I want to avoid, hence the question. Thanks

  167. 167
    hovercraft says:

    Speaking of the Supreme Court:

    Texas Cleared To Resurrect Fetal Burial Law

    Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton can proceed with an appeal seeking to resurrect a state rule that requires fetal tissue to be buried or cremated, a federal appeals court has ruled.

    The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday rejected a request, filed two weeks ago by several abortion providers, to dismiss Paxton’s appeal.

    The court’s three-judge panel gave no explanation for the decision, which included a separate order rejecting Paxton’s request to speed the appeal toward a resolution.

    The appeal revolves around U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks’ January ruling that blocked enforcement of a rule requiring abortion clinics, hospitals and health centers to bury or cremate fetal remains after an abortion or treatment for a miscarriage……

    On June 8, the clinics argued that Paxton’s appeal should be dismissed because the Legislature passed a fetal burial bill that was signed into law by Gov. Greg Abbott and will take effect Feb. 1. Senate Bill 8 includes important differences from the blocked regulation, the motion to dismiss said…………..

    Abortion rights advocates have indicated that they will challenge the fetal-burial provision, as well as other aspects of SB 8, which became the vehicle for a number of abortion regulations during the legislative session that ended May 29.

    Under SB 8, clinics and medical centers must ensure that fetal tissue — whether from an abortion or miscarriage — is buried, cremated or incinerated. Ashes must be buried or properly scattered “and may not be placed in a landfill,” the law says. SB 8 will not apply to miscarriages and drug-induced abortions that occur at home or outside a medical center.

    The law also restricts the most common procedure for second-trimester abortions, prohibits medical researchers from using fetal tissue from abortions, and creates state crimes for two practices already prohibited by federal law — selling fetal body parts and “partial-birth” abortions.

    While we’ve been paying attention to the horror show that is this administration, Yertle and the Federalist Society have been quietly packing our courts to re-make them in the image of the 5th Circuit.

  168. 168
    Kay says:


    Tim Ryan is ideally positioned to do it because he runs in a safe district (for him-he’s safe) but one that moved away from Democrats on the Presidential vote. That’s the person who is positioned to attack Trump, but it’s slightly risky- he’s afraid his voters are Trump-curious- so in my opinion this “fighter” choked again and chose the safest path which was avoiding taking Trump on and instead taking Pelosi on.

    It could be worse, I suppose. He wanted to be a Senator too. He could have been the Senate candidate instead of Sherrod Brown and then we would have 2 GOP Senators.

  169. 169
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Elizabelle: I prefer @weaselone: version, but I’m an asshole.

  170. 170
    MomSense says:


    I may ask if the rescue will bring the cat to my house so we can see how my dog will be with him. She is ok with him at the pet shop but she is very territorial in her space.

    He’s not super outgoing but very sweet. We like each other. When I first met him I reached into his crate to pet him but he grabbed my hand with his huge paws and gave my hand a bath instead. They give him the run of the grooming room at night but somehow he is able to open the big door and have the run of the whole shop. Definitely a boss cat.

  171. 171
    Elizabelle says:

    @Florida Frog: I have heard that telling them you will pay for your own health insurance goes a long way in getting approval. Don’t know for how long, or if that is reputable advice, but will find out and tell you. There’s a good organization of expats here who would know, and I have yet to show up at any of their events. :-(

  172. 172
    Tenar Arha says:

    @schrodingers_cat: You can whet your appetite with the JuntoCast (the Junto Blog’s Early American history podcast). There’s an episode on the Constitution dated Oct 2, 2013 & one on the Bill of Rights dated Jan 22, 2016 just in case my attempts to link don’t work.

    The JuntoCast: A Podcast on Early American History: 5: The Constitution

    The JuntoCast: A Podcast on Early American History: 21: The Bill of Rights

  173. 173
  174. 174
    Kay says:

    One of the things national media say is voters don’t care about Russia, which I suppose is their market justification for not covering the nuts and bolts of it- what happened instead of what it means for Trump’s emotional health.

    But TRUMP is obsessed with it. I notice. TRUMP thinks it’s damaging as hell. He was frantically pressuring all kinds of people to exonerate him publicly and back off investigations and he doesn’t miss a chance to try to discredit it with his crowds. He thinks it’s pretty important.

  175. 175
    Aleta says:

    @MomSense: He sounds wonderful. I love huge paws and cats who’re expressive with their paws.

  176. 176
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kay: Why does Tim Ryan think he’s so talented and leaderly? I said yesterday that to me he seems like a generic meathead.

  177. 177
    Aleta says:

    The Queen reported to West Yorkshire Police for ‘not wearing seat belt.’ -BBC

    Duncan Jones @ManMadeMoon
    Although to be fair, her jacket & skirt are entirely covered in Velcro on the back

  178. 178
    O. Felix Culpa says:


    Why does Tim Ryan think he’s so talented and leaderly? I said yesterday that to me he seems like a generic meathead.

    Silly rabbit, he has the requisite body parts. (No research will be done to confirm that assumption.)

  179. 179
    hovercraft says:


    Can someone remind me what the horri-bad super controversial thing Nancy Pelosi did was?

    She has San Francisco values. Did you catch that, Liberal San Francisco values!
    If you catch my drift, she wants to bring them to where you live!

  180. 180
    Yoda Dog says:


    Can someone remind me what the horri-bad super controversial thing Nancy Pelosi did was?

    She aged, apparently. Thats the only reason I’ve heard posited in this thread or anywhere else.

  181. 181
    Kay says:


    It’s just this misunderstanding of the political nature of “populism”. Sherrod Brown’s father was a physician – Brown didn’t come from some hard-scrabble background yet he runs and wins statewide (not a House district) in a 50/50 state on economic issues and he doesn’t compromise on civil rights or social issues. It isn’t the biography or some kind of “persona”. That’s not the key. It’s really hard! You have to be really talented at politics and you can’t make huge mistakes or even any mistakes.

  182. 182
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I think she supported Hillary Clinton.

  183. 183
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: I’m not sure about a spine.

  184. 184

    @hovercraft: They are always carping about San Francisco values but if given a choice where would you rather be, San Francisco or middle of nowhere in the so called “heartland”.

  185. 185
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Or a brain. Clearly he and his ilk need a trip to Oz.

    Somewhere, over the rainbow…

  186. 186
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The middle of nowhere, it has too many rednecks but San Fran is too expensive.

  187. 187
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I don’t see that Tim Ryan or whoever is going to totally negate the “dur hur, liberals like him, and a lot of those liberals are queers” kinds of stupid ad gambits Republicans always pull. And if the real complaint is “we need new people in leadership,” fine, but why Tim Ryan? He’s not charismatic or articulate or compelling. It’d be like saying, “Senate Democrats are blowing it, they should have a leader like Gary Peters.” He’s Just A Guy.

  188. 188
    bemused says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Sure, there are a lot of examples of devastating consequences of gutting Medicaid to people, communities on Medicaid or not. GOP AHCA, how can we kill you, let us count the ways.

  189. 189
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: A one way trip.

  190. 190
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Kay: Somebody reminded me the other day that when the ACA was being developed, Sherrod Brown had a Town Hall here where he patiently answered every hostile question and remark.

    Meanwhile, this week I’m finding that most of the time Portman’s offices are ignoring the phones. I get an awful lot of “that mailbox is full.”

    @Amir Khalid: Let Jango Rhinehart (might have mangled the spelling there) be your inspiration.

  191. 191

    @OzarkHillbilly: True dat. I like the east coast, especially New England. SF is good for a visit. California coast is very pretty.

  192. 192
    Kay says:


    I think it’s partly because Ohio has so few big-name Democrats that he was sort of promoted by default :)

    He has a lot of problems- his area of Ohio is actually corrupt, for one. That’s an earned reputation they have. One of the reasons Marcy Kaptur is so resilient (and really loved- she’s loved) is because she’s clean. She’s ethical. That wears well.

  193. 193
    Elizabelle says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Kevin Drum put together a hilarious photomontage of what Karen Handel voters think of when they hear “Nancy Pelosi.” It’s all there, from gay butt cheeks to an Islamic militant brandishing an assault rifle. Totes worth the click.

    Drum: The Pelosi Factor in Georgia

  194. 194
    bemused says:


    I feel like trump and teaparty infiltrated and made over “populism” for their own ends, of course.

  195. 195
    Kay says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    I was at a Brown community event years ago and his entire focus was on the ACA and addiction services. I was mildly annoyed at the time- I thought “why is he focusing here- people hate drug addicts and will have no sympathy for them”

    Two years later opiate addiction blew up and every Republican in the state was oozing sympathy.

  196. 196
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat: A lot, a lot of really beautiful places in CA, but there are beautiful places everywhere. One would probably not think of Iowa as a great place for a vacation, but eastern IA along the Mississippi is stunningly beautiful. I am long overdue for a return to New England, haven’t spent near enough time exploring that part of the country.

  197. 197
    Kay says:


    Well, populism has a bit of an earned bad reputation. It seems to inevitably drift toward “racist, dumb and corrupt”. There’s a lot of evidence there. It’s a chicken/egg question, like- does Trump seek out low quality people to hire OR are low quality hires drawn to Trump’s team? Unknowable.

  198. 198
    Aimai says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: uh rbg is not a politician.

  199. 199
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Elizabelle: Yeah, I saw that and was amused, but it’s still extremely strange — that’s just “liberal” + a few “San Francisco” touches. Howard Dean in ’04 was on the receiving end of an ad about lattes and Volvos and tattoos and the New York Times — and he’s just a boring guy from Vermont. It’s not particularly tethered to Nancy Pelosi the person, who has never taken a far-out stand or gotten involved in anything especially peculiar. And this is why “new leadership that Republicans can’t mock” is such a will o’ the wisp.

  200. 200

    @OzarkHillbilly: Beautiful places abound in this country the size of a continent but New England also has a good proportion of people (statistically speaking) that have not succumbed to the R Haterade. Also, displays of religiosity are not commonplace.
    No one asks me here, which church I go to, which used to be the second question in almost any conversation when I lived in MD suburbs of DC. And MD is pretty blue.

  201. 201

    @Kay: Even Sheriff Clarke thought it would be a disaster to join the T team.

  202. 202
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    No one asks me here, which church I go to,

    Heh. It was almost the first thing to come up in my conversations with people around here (in the form of an invite to their church) I found that the quickest way to get people to leave me alone out here was telling them I’m an atheist. Works every time.

  203. 203
    Elizabelle says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Pelosi = out of touch rich San Francisco limousine liberal to many.

    Obscuring that she has delivered so much for the middle and working class.

  204. 204

    @OzarkHillbilly: There was nice black lady at my aerobics class who used try to get me to come to her church, by using a new tack every week.

  205. 205
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Elizabelle: Do people think she’s rich? I didn’t realize that. At any rate it sure ain’t like Republican politicians are jus’ plain folks.

  206. 206
    bemused says:


    I’m in my 60’s so in my teens and twenties so I remember the term populists characterized as salt of the earth, regular folks just struggling for rights, not RW nutjobs. I could have missed the far right element then but wingnuts seem to have co-opted “populism” over the decades.

  207. 207
    O. Felix Culpa says:


    And this is why “new leadership that Republicans can’t mock” is such a will o’ the wisp.

    It’s a deliberate will o’ the wisp, intended to distract, divide, and dismay, not to mention rid us of effective leadership.

  208. 208

    @O. Felix Culpa: BS and his supporters supposedly espouse lefty ideals but their actions always seem to help the Rs. I judge a person by what they do more than what they say.

  209. 209
    Jim Parene says:

    @Amir Khalid: I have been playing Guitar, on and off, for several years. I can whole heartedly endorse the Squire Affinity Telecaster!
    I have recently purchased a Squire Bullitt Tele and it is perfect for my arthritic old hands. Between the neck and the lighter strings, I can now play barr chords high on the neck that had become very painful on my Washburn Acoustic.
    A practice amp and headphones are the way to go.
    BTW, playing Guitar has become part of my strategy to deal with PTSD. Sometimes I have to force myself to practice but, after 30min-60min of playing, I actually feel better.
    Do it! Learn to play. You will really enjoy the experience

  210. 210
    Steeplejack says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Yes, go for it. As a (former) longtime guitar player, I can tell you that you are going to have a long and tortured relationship with your instrument, so it’s better to get one that you really love.

  211. 211
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jim Parene:
    You can find Bullet Strats here in Malaysia for RM630 (US$150 or so), if you like white. But I’ve not found any Bullet Teles at any local online site, alas.

  212. 212
    hovercraft says:

    I am close enough to NYC that going there is no big deal, hell I used to commute there everyday, but I don’t have to deal with the hustle and bustle or expense of living there. I like my suburban community, but I need to have the City readily accessible. There are many beautiful places to visit, BUT, I would never want to live there, I’m a City Girl at heart :)
    It still annoys me that I have to drive as much as I do, jumping on the bus or train is so much more convenient than looking for parking and dealing with other drivers. I actually miss my hour long commute, it was my time to just get away from the world, sit quietly and read with no one to bother me.

  213. 213
    hovercraft says:

    The rednecks are everywhere, I lived on Long Island for a few years and believe me there were plenty of rednecks there. I worked with a girl who was in her late twenties, born and bred on Long Island, and she’d been to Manhattan once in her life. Forty miles and she’d only been there once! They thought I was crazy because I used to go in pretty much every weekend, it was the halfway place between LI and Westchester, plus we just liked it, what youngster wouldn’t want to spend every weekend in the center of the universe!

  214. 214
    Jim Parene says:

    @Amir Khalid: @Amir Khalid: @Amir Khalid: I found it on Musician’s Friend.
    Free shipping in the States and no tax collected in Fl. Any color you want so long as it is Natural Blond.

  215. 215
    Jim Parene says:

    @hovercraft: Former here and yes, there are jerks all over the Island. I lived in King’s District (NY2). Too many NY Post readers and fox newz viewers. Too many bigoted union members. Too much IGMFU.
    Very sad state of affairs. I grew up on the North Shore, owned a house on the South Shore and loved the Island. It just got too expensive to live there, after Sandy.

  216. 216
    Barry says:

    @schrodingers_cat: “Even Sheriff Clarke thought it would be a disaster to join the T team.”

    IIRC, there was no word on this alleged appointment except from Clarke himself.

  217. 217
    bupalos says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: I get what you’re saying. I mean, once someone is 77 years old, they just can’t do their job. 77 year old people…ugh….amirite?

    Never mind that dems have probably NEVER shown the kind of unity they have recently refusing to give window dressing to the Trumpocalypse. Pretty much haven’t heard the barest peep from Dem pols about being Trump curious, and that’s pretty fucking amazing given the way Bernie’s clumsy messaging gave the WWC-curious permission to sniff around. I have absolutely no clue how people can find fault with Smash or wish we had someone else in there right now.

    Oh, but she’s an OLD!


    Be great if we had more Smash’s in training ready to push up. Find them and then we’ll talk.

  218. 218
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim Parene:
    I was further out, I lived in West Babylon first and then Farmingville which was much more affordable, huge brand new townhouse, horrendous commute, which is why I moved to Jersey. The Grand Wizard of the KKK lived one town over in Centereach. Yay!

  219. 219
    r€nato says:

    @MomSense: This, this, THIS. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I could scarcely believe my ears, listening to some of those supposedly experienced Democratic politicians interviewed on Nice Polite Republicans lamenting how the mean old GOPers tied Ossoff to Pelosi… as if having someone else leading the Dems would make the Republicunts play nice for once, and stop lying about our leaders?

  220. 220
    JR in WV says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    She says

    …telling our senior pols (like fucking RBG) to resign

    Not your job to tell people when to retire! “Resign!”

    Fuck you for the lack of respect you show for Ruth Bader Ginsberg.

    She has done more for this country in the past 18 months than you will be able to accomplish in your entire South Bay life. She will do more in the next 12 months, also, too.

  221. 221
    JR in WV says:


    Take some pix of the trees!!

  222. 222
    Jim Parene says:

    @hovercraft:@hovercraft: I know the area fairly well. Too much of a comute for me. Copiague to Brooklyn, Manhattan or Newark was as far as I could handle. The KKK neighbor, next town over, does not surprise me at all.

  223. 223
    jl says:

    I’m not much interested in Democrats who are not much interested in voting rights.
    If someone suggests and better House Dem leader with a better policy platform than Pelosi, I’ll listen.
    Pelosi is a political leader, and is subject to the ‘what are you going to do for us tomorrow’ test, like anyone else.
    But this bunch of conserva-Dems dissing her sound like total losers to me.

    Edit: And should go without saying that a bunch of loser Democrats who are not much interested in voting rights who seem to have zilch to say about a policy platform flunk the ‘what are you going to do for us tomorrow’ test. They get a zero and an F double minus, in my book.

  224. 224
    cleosmom says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: Absolutely. How can anyone politick or govern effectively when they don’t have perky tits?

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