Warning: Cannot Be Unheard (Open Thread)

Five months into the rolling train-wreck of his father-in-law’s administration, we finally learn that Kushner has a voice:

I liked the Gilbert Gottfried theory better.

I only listened to a snippet of the statement to ascertain that Kushner sounds like a snotty adolescent ordering you to get your hobo-ass Honda out of the limo parking space rather than Gottfried. But the content of the speech is remarkably like the bland pablum that leaks out of Ivanka’s yap when Trump trots her unqualified ass out to address some weighty public issue.

It’s so embarrassing and presumptuous. It’s as if some odious orange buffoon is forcing us to watch his untalented, awful children perform in badly staged recitals. For the next goddamned three years and seven months.

Anyhoo, Jared and Ivanka: a pair of empty-headed, entitled dilettantes. As Granny Cracker always said, there’s a lid for every pot. Open thread!

214 replies
  1. 1
    amk says:

    gud gawd.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2
    JPL says:

    Betty, you are not giving him enough credit. It appears that he’s reading his high school graduation speech. Of course, I only listened fifteen seconds, so I could be wrong.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    TenguPhule says:

    Day has just started and I need a drink already.

    ReplyReply
  4. 4
    chopper says:

    won’t play for me. man, it’s like a conspiracy to keep his voice a secret.

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    Yutsano says:

    @chopper: Can’t watch because at work. Don’t feel bad for that in the slightest.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    Corner Stone says:

    The part I could stomach was awful. Get ready for mass layoffs and serious privatization. Because what we really need to do with sensitive govt information is stick it in a private company “cloud service”.

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    LAO says:

    @TenguPhule: It’s after 2:00 pm where I am, go for it. Or I can just have a drink in your honor.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    TenguPhule says:

    @LAO: Please do.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    LAO says:

    I know that the day is not over yet, but I’m afraid I’m going to lose a bet I made. I was so sure that Trump would fired Rosenstine (for failing to fire Mueller) today, I bet $50 on it.

    ReplyReply
  10. 10
    Corner Stone says:

    The headline is a little misleading but the pull quote gives a fair assessment, IMO.
    Speaking of people I would prefer to not hear from again:
    We are better than this,’ impassioned Biden tells Florida Democrats
    “Working people elected him for decades, Biden noted. “They voted for a black man named Barack Obama!” But they fear losing jobs to automation, digitalization and globalization.

    “We didn’t talk much to those people lately,” he said. “We have to let them know we understand their fears, their concerns and that we have some real answers.”

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    hovercraft says:

    @JPL:

    Betty, you are not giving him enough credit. It appears that he’s reading his high school graduation speech. Of course, I only listened fifteen seconds, so I could be wrong.

    I think you are also giving him too much credit, he sounds like he’s giving his bar mitzvah speech.
    Useless dilettante indeed.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12
    MomSense says:

    Could he look any more like Tom Riddle? Too bad about the voice, though.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    Corner Stone says:

    @MomSense:

    Too bad about the voice, though.

    Ivanka must not have introduced him to her voice coach yet. She has a more masculine sounding tone than he does.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    catclub says:

    @hovercraft: You people are giving scant respect to the man who is busy bringing peace to the Middle East.
    I think he will also re-organize the Federal government.

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Corner Stone: ugggh yeah can old white doods just take a break for a bit? Especially ones that got trounced in the primaries. Sheesh.

    ReplyReply
  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @LAO:

    I was so sure that Trump would fired Rosenstine (for failing to fire Mueller) today, I bet $50 on it.

    Hell, I thought it was going to happen last Friday, so I feel for you.

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    TenguPhule says:

    @SatanicPanic: Its Biden.

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    Quinerly says:

    OT: I just hate this. Carrie Fisher’s autopsy results: http://touch.latimes.com/#sect.....-93887175/

    ReplyReply
  19. 19
    SatanicPanic says:

    @TenguPhule: I know

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    Kathleen says:

    @Corner Stone: Oh, FFS, Biden. Stifle it. What did Hillary do to piss you off?

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Yeah he needs to go away

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    ruemara says:

    Ew. He sounds like both a dweeb and like he skimmed the latest business management fad, collected some buzzwords and created the douche point Oh presentation on how to fuck up everything.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    JPL says:

    @Kathleen: He has convinced himself he coulda won. Truth be known, he’d be a better candidate than Bernie, but I’m sure the repubs were ready for that scenario.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24
    eclare says:

    @Quinerly: Yeah, a friend just forwarded a different article to me with the news, so sad.

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    DougJ says:

    He has the voice of angel!

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    different-church-lady says:

    For the next goddamned three years and seven months.

    You really think it’s going to take that long to indict him?

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    Chris says:

    @Quinerly:

    I suppose all the people who were pissy at her for her politics can now say “she was no angel!”

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    geg6 says:

    He sounds exactly like he looks. An uber dweeb with an entitlement issue. Our IT, computer engineering and IST departments advise against the cloud for any confidential information. I’m sure the DoD will just snap to it after Princelet Snotface tells them to. Especially since Princlet Snotface and his computer whiz buddy in TX are being scrutinized for collusion with the Russkies.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    different-church-lady says:

    “We have to let them know we understand their fears, their concerns and that we have some real answers.”

    I’m not sure telling them we get that they’re afraid of competent women, brown people, Muslims, black people existing on public streets, and science is much of an idea.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    Kathleen says:

    @JPL: Sadly I think you’re right.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Immanentize says:

    @LAO: I would have taken your money!

    Meanwhile, what do you know about this guy Andrew Weissmann that Mueller just hired??

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    patrick II says:

    Government automation is hard.
    Government automation without serious planning and budget is harder.
    Privatized government automation without serious planning and budget is harder yet, but profitable for some, just not generally the government who has to wait for the do-over and for more money for the contractor.

    Reference multiple government/private automation projects.

    But I was impressed by “the cloud, which some of you know a lot about”

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    Betty Cracker says:

    @MomSense: OMFG, you’re so right!

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Kay says:

    Today let’s all celebrate nepotism and promotions that are based on who you know, not what you know!

    I’m sort of mildly curious why the Trump team think Ivanka and Kushner are a political plus. Is there anything to justify this belief? Are they popular somewhere, with some group of people? Is it because Trump is old and out of shape and unattractive that they need these two attractive younger people? Purely a visual? A visual that outweighs the blatant nepotism and strong whiff of corruption? Nixon’s children were attractive enough. Were people like “I would think he’s corrupt and incompetent except for those children he has- they changed my mind”.

    Aren’t there lots and lots of bright young(er) people in DC who would be better at this than them? And those people wouldn’t have 1. the corrupt taint or 2. the nepotism taint. They thought Obama lacked experience but he didn’t just bring in Michelle’s grandpa (or whomever!) as “person who looks old”- he hired more experienced people who are mostly older.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    MoxieM says:

    Uncanny, how much the Gilbert Gottfried voice resembles the presumed “real” thing.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    Shalimar says:

    @TenguPhule: Biden has been trounced in more than one primary.

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    geg6 says:

    @JPL:

    I still doubt I could have brought myself to vote for Bernie. I don’t have the same doubt if it had been Biden. That said, Hillary was head and shoulders above either one. White dudes need to just STFU for awhile. Every Dem I know is over them. Even my old white dude Dem friends and relatives are sick to death of white men and their bullshit.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Shalimar says:

    @Kathleen: Biden is running as the guy who could have bridged the gap between Sanders’ white guy appeal and Clinton’s Obama legacy. No one has told him that was last election. We don’t want to live in that past in 2020.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    Hungry Joe says:

    ***SIGH*** A person fairly close to me has been moving further and further from planet Earth. A few years ago he was a strong, progressive, pro-labor Dem. Then a Bernie fan. Then a Bernie Bro. — a Hilary-Is-As-Bad-As-Trump guy. A few weeks ago he suggested to me that theoretical physicists were in cahoots with the government: They made up string theory and the multiverse theory to confuse people and make them easier to control. Today I find out that he’s become a 9/11 Truther. So the Rush-Limbaugh-Stole-My-Father’s-Brain syndrome has its counterpart on the other side. Bubbles, man. Once you’re in one …

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    geg6 says:

    The far left and far right are pretty much one and the same. As any woman can tell you.

    ETA: This was meant as a reply to Hungry Joe. Don’t know why it didn’t come up that way even though I hit the reply button.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    patrick II says:

    @Kay:
    I’m sort of mildly curious why the Trump team think Ivanka and Kushner are a political plus.

    Have you compared them to the rest of Trump’s cabinet?

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    rikyrah says:

    @catclub:

    @hovercraft: You people are giving scant respect to the man who is busy bringing peace to the Middle East.

    BWA HA HA HA HAH A

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: One thing that Hillary Clinton was flat-out wrong about in one of the debates, when they asked her to say something nice about Trump — she praised his children. She was probably just being nice, but damn, was she wrong. Ivanka is an entitled twit, and the grown sons are monstrous creeps. I have no opinion of Tiffany except she was fortunate to grow up on the other side of the continent from her horrible father and doesn’t seem as eager to participate in the grift, which is commendable. The minor child, of course, is just a blameless kid.

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    germy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Personal information on 198 million Americans – or roughly 61 percent of the US population – was accidentally leaked after “a marketing firm contracted by the Republican National Committee stored internal documents on a publicly accessible Amazon server,” according to Gizmodo. The information includes phone numbers, addresses, and detailed personal political opinions.

    The data leak contains a wealth of personal information on roughly 61 percent of the US population. Along with home addresses, birthdates, and phone numbers, the records include advanced sentiment analyses used by political groups to predict where individual voters fall on hot-button issues such as gun ownership, stem cell research, and the right to abortion, as well as suspected religious affiliation and ethnicity. The data was amassed from a variety of sources—from the banned subreddit r/fatpeoplehate to American Crossroads, the super PAC co-founded by former White House strategist Karl Rove.

    Deep Root Analytics, a conservative data firm that identifies audiences for political ads, confirmed ownership of the data to Gizmodo on Friday…

    In a statement, Deep Root founder Alex Lundry told Gizmodo, “We take full responsibility for this situation.” He said the data included proprietary information as well as publicly available voter data provided by state government officials. “Since this event has come to our attention, we have updated the access settings and put protocols in place to prevent further access,” Lundry said.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kay: It was a different world back when Nixon was in office. It was just beginning to change into the current one we have today, but there were more honorable people then. We were more interested in not looking bad to the Soviets and the rest of the world. Shining city on a hill and all that.

    it because Trump is old and out of shape and unattractive that they need these two attractive younger people? Purely a visual? A visual that outweighs the blatant nepotism and strong whiff of corruption?

    It’s probably this and the fact that he apparently does not trust many people outside immediate family to do these jobs.
    The reasoning for leaving several appointments vacant was just an excuse for his incompetence and paronoia.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    Does he keep Jared and Ivanka around because he thinks they’re a political plus? I thought it was because he was such an unstable raging paranoid narcissist that his own family were the only people he thought he could trust.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    stinger says:

    @MomSense: LOL He and his lovely bride are fairly lifelike robots, in my view. Never seen either one display a discernible emotion. I know some women especially think that frowning or smiling will give them wrinkles, but on these two, that relentlessly bland “expression” even while speaking seems more indicative of a bland brain.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    The Dangerman says:

    This is a couple weeks old and probably been linked here but, if not, it’s a hell of a fun read and a nice distraction from the bullshit that is Jared and the rest:

    “The Most Interesting Man In The World” Meets The Most Interesting Man In The World

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t know anyone who thinks they are attractive. I guess maybe if you like vampires, they might qualify. But otherwise, they both make everyone I know nauseous, even my wingnut staff assistant.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    Kathleen says:

    So is this an open thread? (Taps mic)

    As a means of cleansing ears and brains, may I submit some a video of some pieces performed by MyCincinnati, an orchestra whose home is my neighborhood, East Price Hill in Cincinnati.

    http://www.mycincinnatiorchestra.org/

    The link is to their web site, which features the history of the orchestra, some videos, and a link to the new Artists in Residence who have just been hired.

    This program (instruments, music lessons) is totally free to the children (and now adults have their own orchestra). East Price Hill is one of the most diverse neighborhoods in the country, or so I’ve heard. We have very rich people, middle class people, poor people, Whites, African Americans, Guatemalans, Mexicans. 25% of the people who live in the totality of Price Hill (East, West, Lower) do not own cars. Cincinnati has the second highest level of child poverty in the country, and many of those poor children live in my community.

    I include all of this to provide greater perspective on what these young people are accomplishing. The pieces they perform reflect the reality of their lives. It does my soul so good to watch them perform. The kids on the video are part of the Ambassador Program. There are several parts to the video each featuring a different piece. It’s worth a few minutes of your time, really. These people bring me joy.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    Kay says:

    One of the things I’m most disappointed in the public for is the passive acceptance of the nepotism. We’ll regret making this a norm. It goes nowhere good, not culturally and not in terms of “good government”. You can’t be a country that crows about merit as much as we do and allow this hypocrisy. It cuts to the core. Without the “merit” plank in the US national platform it’s a much weaker structure because so many millions of people have to believe it. They have to.

    I’m shocked it was dismissed without a backward look. It was valuable, the norm that said this is a bad idea. It had value. We’ll regret this and for what? What did we trade it for? Speeches and self-promotion by these two and not angering Donald Trump? He’s angry all the fucking time anyway. He’s a miserable person. You can’t give him enough. There are thousands of people who could give these speeches, and give them better – we got nothing in exchange.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: I’m sort of mildly curious why the Trump team think Ivanka and Kushner are a political plus.

    Anecdata, but the NYT article on women who voted for trump– about fifteen of them, IIRC, so FWIW– a number of them cited Ivanka as a reason to vote for/trust trump. People decide who to vote for based on shockingly stupid stuff.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    I’m not sure I blame the public as much as I do the media for that. There are NO negative stories about her and his negative stuff seems to get swept under the rug after a quick mention. Like I said above, absolutely no one I know likes them, even the wingnuts I know.

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    Brachiator says:

    I only listened to a snippet of the statement to ascertain that Kushner sounds like a snotty adolescent ordering you to get your hobo-ass Honda out of the limo parking space rather than Gottfried.

    So true.

    And Granny Cracker is one smart cookie!

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    Corner Stone says:

    @geg6: I can’t stand the sight of her. And I never want to hear her voice ever again. Unless maybe it is to say, “Yes, your Honor.” when she is asked if she understands the terms of her plea arrangement.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    Gravenstone says:

    @germy: Yeah, because that will certainly help get the horses back into the barn…. assholes, the lot of them.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    stinger says:

    @Betty Cracker: In that (right-hand) photo, Jared looks like he could do the raise-one-eyebrow thing, which capability I would kill for, but he never seems to actually raise it. What a waste!

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I’m sort of mildly curious why the Trump team think Ivanka and Kushner are a political plus. Is there anything to justify this belief?

    Nope.

    Are they popular somewhere, with some group of people?

    Nope.

    Is it because Trump is old and out of shape and unattractive that they need these two attractive younger people?

    That’s why he has a Trophy Wife. That’s her job.

    Purely a visual?

    Maybe.

    A visual that outweighs the blatant nepotism and strong whiff of corruption?

    Nothing can overwhelm that.

    Nixon’s children were attractive enough. Were people like “I would think he’s corrupt and incompetent except for those children he has- they changed my mind”.

    Nope, because Tricky Dick was smarter than that.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Kathleen says:

    @JPL: TBH, I don’t think any Democrat was going to win. I still believe the “election” was in reality a coup. Any discussion of what went wrong for Democrats has to include that. If it doesn’t, it’s useless because it’s not addressing facts that need to be faced.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    geg6 says:

    @Corner Stone:

    And we all know about your weakness for GOP blondes. 😉

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    p.a. says:

    @Betty Cracker: goddamn I’m out of Basilisk fangs

    Maybe we could borrow the Sword of Berniedor from a Wilmerite?

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    Immanentize says:

    @stinger:
    It’s clear that Jared and Ivanka are the children of Annie Hall’s Happy Couple….

    ReplyReply

  63. 63
    Chris says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    Similar experience with a friend from college these last couple years, although not in the Berniebro direction. She was always kind of an oddball, but had enough sense to know which side was worse and voted Obama. But lately, she’s turned into a raging “both sides do it” loon. At least it genuinely is “both sides do it” and not “both sides do it but liberals are worse” – the Facebook tirades against the religious right and whatnot are genuine. But it’ll get balanced out by just as loud a whine about SJWs, Marxists, the out-of-touch corporatist DNC, and God knows what else, usually ending in how she feels like no one represents her in Washington.

    Unlike virtually all of my Republican acquaintances, I actually value her friendship, but that doesn’t make the professional centrism any less tedious.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    FYI,

    Younger people are harsher on Ivanka.
    Older people seem to buy their nonsense.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    Aren’t there lots and lots of bright young(er) people in DC who would be better at this than them?

    There are extremely dim cats in DC that would be better at this then them.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    TenguPhule says:

    @SatanicPanic: That was a statement, not a question.

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Kathleen says:

    @patrick II: Applies to businesses as well.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    tobie says:

    @geg6: I’m still trying to figure out why supposedly liberal white men don’t get that white working class men have a problem rallying behind smart women. It’s just crystal clear to me. They may be able to support the happy homemaker type (Michelle Bachman) or the hot babe type (Sarah Palin) but they’re scared shitless by successful women because successful women remind them of the management types they hate.

    It doesn’t matter the political belief of these women. It could be far right a la Carly Fiorina, center-right like Meg Whitman or left-wing like HRC, and populist like Elisabeth Warren. I won’t even begin to broach their response to successful women of color because that would be off-the-charts noxious.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Mike in NC says:

    Javanka couldn’t reorganize a broom closet, much less the federal government.

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The minor child, of course, is just a blameless kid.

    Give him time.

    Rome wasn’t burned in a day.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    TenguPhule says:

    @germy:

    In a statement, Deep Root founder Alex Lundry told Gizmodo, “We take full responsibility for this situation.”

    While taking no actual responsibility for the situation.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    One of the things I’m most disappointed in the public for is the passive acceptance of the nepotism.

    Kay,
    I can say, without hesitation…

    That this is about them being White and Republican.

    AIN’T.NO.WAY.
    That they would have allowed Craig Robinson (Michelle’s Brother, an actual MBA from a top 10 school)
    or Maya (a PhD)
    to do ANYTHING in President Obama’s White House.
    NO.MATTER.HOW.MANY.DEGREES.THAT.THEY.HAVE.

    Or, the jobs that they did beforehand.

    Nope.
    Nope.
    Nope.

    Hell, if Chelsea had decided that she woulda taken on some of Bill’s ‘First Gentleman’ Duties….they woulda gone apeshyt.

    Making excuses and bending over backwards.
    The curve for unqualified White people is REAL.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Roger Moore says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Snooty white twits all look alike.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    DesertFriar says:

    Well, since it’s an Open Thread…

    Today marks the 64th anniversary of the deaths of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg.

    They were convicted of committing espionage for Russia. After declassification of Russian documents, Julius was a courier for the Russians. Ethel was an accessory.

    Not sure as to why I thought of them today.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    Yutsano says:

    @Kay: Until the legislative branch decided to do their Constitutionally mandated duty against Dolt45, this beating will continue. I’m oddly hoping a LOT of needed reform comes out of this like giving the Office of Government Ethics some real teeth.

    @geg6: Ivanka did get some of her mom’s looks but it’s clear which parent she got her personality from. Personality definitely overtakes looks for her.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @germy:

    In a statement, Deep Root founder Alex Lundry told Gizmodo, “We take full responsibility for this situation.”

    What consequences will these data firms actually face?

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Kay says:

    I was reading this piece about “disappointed” Trump voters and what they’re hanging on is the hope that Trump will do something extraordinary. It’s a cost/benefit analysis at this point. They know they’ve traded away a lot and they are just hoping that they’ll get something really really good for that trade. In a way they can’t give up because they’re like those people who fall for internet scams and are waiting for the lottery wins after they keep paying “transfer fees”. They have MORE invested the longer this goes on. You think “it isn’t coming” and they say “well, I sent them 5000 dollars so it has to

    But the longer it goes on the better the pay off has to be. He can’t just be an average pol now. He has to be fabulous or they gave up civility and decency and standing in the world for nothing. They could have gotten what Trump offers and also gotten a decent human being if he’s an average President- any GOOper woulda appointed a far Right SCOTUS Justice. The ante goes up the worse they all behave. As the cost goes up the bar for the benefit gets higher.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    TenguPhule says:

    @tobie:

    They may be able to support the happy homemaker type (Michelle Bachman)

    Sorry, whoever believes that about Bachman obviously has a parasitic infection in their brain which has destroyed their reality centers.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    @DesertFriar:

    Not sure as to why I thought of them today.

    Hopes of history repeating itself?

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    germy says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷:

    What consequences will these data firms actually face?

    Consequences are for the little people.

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    @tobie:

    successful women remind them of the management types they hate. It doesn’t matter the political belief of these women. It could be far right a la Carly Fiorina, center-right like Meg Whitman

    Woah, woah, woah. Let’s slow that fucking roll a bit, shall we?

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    I was reading this piece about “disappointed” Trump voters and what they’re hanging on is the hope that Trump will do something extraordinary. It’s a cost/benefit analysis at this point. They know they’ve traded away a lot and they are just hoping that they’ll get something really really good for that trade. In a way they can’t give up because they’re like those people who fall for internet scams and are waiting for the lottery wins after they keep paying “transfer fees”. They have MORE invested the longer this goes on. You think “it isn’t coming” and they say “well, I sent them 5000 dollars so it has to”

    What is Sunk Cost Fallacy for $500, Alex?

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    Quinerly says:

    I think the conventional wisdom is HRC praised Trump’s children b/c Ivanka and Chelsea were close. Do we know if that’s still the case? I find it hard to believe that they were that close in the beginning…just appear to be so different from each other (for one thing, Ivanka doesn’t seem very smart IQ wise), but these folks (all of them, lumping the Clintons in this pot too)are so different from the rest of us….the old “rich are different” thing.

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Aren’t there lots and lots of bright young(er) people in DC who would be better at this than them?

    OT, but related…

    there was a story out yesterday, that all the young people that had been primed and prepped to join the State Department -the best and the brightest, who went through all the hoops…

    Have been told.. ‘No, I don’t think so’.

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    eclare says:

    @The Dangerman: Thanks for the link, that was a good read. Never would have guessed the actor’s background.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    LAO says:

    @Immanentize: Ah, you missed my Andrew Weissman story — he is a total prick and will be a excellent addition to Mueller’s team. He happens to be a very old school, humorless and by the book, prosecutor.

    The story: when I was a baby associate, Weissman was chief of the Criminal Division in Brooklyn and for some reason he wanted to try a case against one of my bosses. It was the stupidist organized crime prosecution in the history of the EDNY but nevertheless Weissman took over as trial counsel. On the eve of trial, I was sent to his office to pick up the 3500 material. When I walked in, he looked at me and asked “what’s a nice jewish girl like you doing working for a mobster?” (It was never clear to me whether he was referring to my boss or the defendant). I wish I had said — what makes you think I’m so nice? but instead I said something about what was he doing working for the government. Needless to say, he really pissed me off.

    Fast forward — the defendant takes a plea during the middle of trial and then absconds to Costa Rico before sentence. I thought Weissman’s head was going to explode and he totally blamed my boss. It was the first and only time I was interviewed by FBI agents as potential subject. Good times.

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  87. 87
    ruemara says:

    @Kay: I’ve never not seen nepotism work. I’m currently in a position where the two key leaders are sibs. My last government job had husbands supervising wives, people having affairs in HR depts. protecting their lovers in other departs from the consequences of some really crappy behavior. I don’t know if we can ever put the genie back in the bottle but it definitely won’t happen without acknowledging that too many people are willing to turn a blind eye to their friends pulling shit like this on the job.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88

    Wow, he sounds even more punchable than he looks.

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    I’m shocked it was dismissed without a backward look.

    Village has a point about our media and the need for reform.

    The methods suggested may be harsh, even cruel to the uninformed eye, but they are definitely intended for the greater good.

    Letting Republicans gaslight the nepotism of Trump really showed how fucking inept and useless our MSM currently is.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    Kathleen says:

    @Shalimar: Well, he may have picked up a few white guys but that whole keening and wailing over the gallant yet persecuted and misunderstood WWC (it just struck me how much this lionizing of these Rust Belt white guys reminds me of the lionizing of the Confederate soldiers that was so prevalent in the early 1960’s) is not tethered to the reality of what happened in 2016. Bernie and his minions made this shit up and Media are dutifully repeating it because it’s such a nice way to beat up Democrats who dared to embrace “The Others”.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    rikyrah says:

    @Quinerly:

    I think the conventional wisdom is HRC praised Trump’s children b/c Ivanka and Chelsea were close.

    I don’t know about if that’s the reason why.
    He literally had nothing else about him.

    I couldn’t stand Shrub, but I honestly believed that he was a loving husband and father. I believe that.

    I think Dolt45’s spawn are icky (except for Barron), but she had to come up with SOMETHING.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kay: Oh, he’ll do some “extraordinary” things alright. Not sure they’ll like them though

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    Kathleen says:

    @stinger: Or an operating system upgrade.

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    Quinerly says:

    @Yutsano:
    For what it worth, I read awhile ago that one of the sons went a few years not speaking to Trump after the Marla Maples affair and divorce from his mother. They are all slime. I feel that way about Barron…it’s a gene pool thing.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    Kay says:

    It’s as if some odious orange buffoon is forcing us to watch his untalented, awful children perform in badly staged recitals.

    The word for that is “imposition”. Donald Trump feels he is owed us watching his children play these roles, and we have to clap or he gets mad. Well, he gets mad anyway, because there isn’t enough applause in the world.

    Ivanka feels she can demand that other people like her. That’s what you learn at 18 or so, right? That there’s no requirement that people have affection for you. They’re in charge of that.

    They just never grew up, none of them. No one made them do it.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96

    @TenguPhule:

    The methods suggested may be harsh, even cruel to the uninformed eye

    “Kill them all” looks neither harsh nor cruel to the informed eye?

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    Chris says:

    @tobie:

    I’m still trying to figure out why supposedly liberal white men don’t get that white working class men have a problem rallying behind smart women.

    Fixed that for you.

    If only it were just one social class.

    They may be able to support the happy homemaker type (Michelle Bachman) or the hot babe type (Sarah Palin) but they’re scared shitless by successful women because successful women remind them of the management types they hate.

    Yeah, I had the sense almost from the start that the whole appeal of Palin was that she was playing a wingnut fantasy of what a woman should be. Pleasantly hot, unthreateningly dumb, knowing her place (she ran as vice president), and providing a ton of the right kind of emotional support by telling them over and over how special they were, how everything wrong in their lives was because of big meanies who were out to get them, and how they shouldn’t let them push them around.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    MomSense says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s so crazy how similar they are.

    Trump is like a combo Biff Tannen/Gilderoy Lockhart.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @rikyrah: but she had to come up with SOMETHING

    I thought that was a good, quick-footed response. I wonder if they had prepped her on it, or anticipated such an inane question. I can’t remember which debate that was, was it during the pseudo-town hall? I still can’t believe that Raddatz (especially) and Cooper approved two “Why can’t you two get along?” thumbsuckers. God, that debate was embarrassing.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    bemused says:

    @Kay:

    They keep loading that slot machine with dollars positive they will hit the yooge jackpot.

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    tobie says:

    @Corner Stone:

    et’s slow that fucking roll a bit, shall we?

    Why? We’ve just been through the most noxious campaign cycle of my lifetime where the Democratic candidate was successfully vilified from the left and the right for her supposed insensitivity to the concerns of the white working class. Biden is out there repeating this bullshit. What makes it off-limits to bring up gender and wonder whether any forthright woman running on her brains and policy chops would appeal to this one demographic?

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  102. 102
    Roger Moore says:

    @Kay:

    I’m sort of mildly curious why the Trump team think Ivanka and Kushner are a political plus.

    Do they? I assumed it was a result of Trump’s trust/loyaty issues. He doesn’t- and probably shouldn’t- county on party allegiance to guarantee people’s loyalty to his program, so he has to fall back on personal loyalty. The number of people he trusts at all is too small to run a government- the key reason for unfilled posts in the administration, IMO- and the number of people in his true inner circle is far smaller. That means the people he really does trust will wind up doing a bit of everything. Hence Ivanka and Jared getting oversized public roles.

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    Chris says:

    @rikyrah:

    I just googled what you meant. Yep, people from a couple of extremely competitive fellowships that, if completed, basically constitute admission as an FSO, have been told that they now have the option of stamping passports in a foreign embassy for two years with a chance, but no guarantee, of joining the State Department as an FSO after that’s done.

    Yet another government department being slowly strangled on the altar of the Market-God.

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I was reading this piece about “disappointed” Trump voters and what they’re hanging on is the hope that Trump will do something extraordinary. It’s a cost/benefit analysis at this point. They know they’ve traded away a lot and they are just hoping that they’ll get something really really good for that trade. In a way they can’t give up because they’re like those people who fall for internet scams and are waiting for the lottery wins after they keep paying “transfer fees”. They have MORE invested the longer this goes on. You think “it isn’t coming” and they say “well, I sent them 5000 dollars so it has to”

    As you have said from the beginning…

    Their CHOICE to vote for him is a mark on THEIR character..

    Because, he didn’t hide that he was a despicable HUMAN BEING LACKING OF ANY BASIC CHARACTER….
    Yet, they voted for him anyway.

    It’s the reason why I’m tired of the MSM trying to forcefeed us stories about why we should ‘ understand’ why they voted for Trump.

    They voted for him because THEY lack character.

    Because, only someone who lacks character, can look at that awful person, and say ‘
    ‘Yes, he should lead this country’.

    Period.

    That’s the reason why they cling to the most ridiculous bullshyt, because they don’t want to admit that THEY lacked character.

    They chose this obviously unqualified White man, because they were mad that the Qualified Black man did his job as President. And, made it look easy.
    They couldn’t handle that.
    So, instead of voting for an obviously qualified woman…

    They voted for the obviously horrible person.
    And, MAYBE, if times were different, and those on our side, was showing the usual Charlie Brown-sucker-ness that we have before….

    but, we’re not.
    Folks on our side are mad. Pissed. Don’t wanna hear nothing about your ‘ reason’ for voting for him. Will say ‘phuck you’ in a minute, and continue to bring receipts. I said awhile ago, the Village is shocked at the level of receipts that we are bringing, and that WE aren’t in a Kumbaya mood.

    This isn’t 2000.
    This isn’t even 2004, after Shrub lied us into two wars.

    This is a whole other era, where, I’ve seen it, time and time again…
    People are saying, ‘ you regret what you did? And? So? You brought it on yourself, muthaphucka. And, I hope that he takes away every program that you need to survive.’

    It’s that level of bitterness out here – ON OUR SIDE.

    And, nobody was ready for it. They don’t know how to handle it.

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  105. 105
    Kay says:

    I don;t make political predictions anymore but Portman deserves to go down for that Senate health care bill. They better figure out a way not to make him walk that plank because that will dog him everywhere he goes. The Senate isn’t gerrymandered. He’s gotta campaign in 88 counties. The Medicaid expansion was an unqualified success in this state. I think it’s the single best thing for lower and working class people any politician has done in my lifetime. He really wants to be the guy who killed it?

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    Corner Stone says:

    @rikyrah:

    but she had to come up with SOMETHING.

    “He’s really good at navigating the bankruptcy courts.”

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    Chris says:

    @Kathleen:

    (it just struck me how much this lionizing of these Rust Belt white guys reminds me of the lionizing of the Confederate soldiers that was so prevalent in the early 1960’s)

    I’ve been saying from the start that all this wailing about how we need to win more White Working Class voters and stop being so darned concerned with those identity politics issues sounds exactly like the motherfuckers who spent a hundred years after Reconstruction explaining that the really important thing was that white Northerners and white Southerners hug it out, and merrily throwing black people under the bus in order for that to happen.

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    But people think it’s cumulative, that they will give up. That isn’t really how it works. The longer they invest the less likely they are to give up. They’ll still be waiting for the pay off the day he leaves office. “Cut your losses” are not part of their world view :)

    ReplyReply
  109. 109
    Quinerly says:

    @rikyrah: See my comment on Barron. This administration has turned me into a horrible person. I think Barron is just as bad as the rest of them. It’s a strong gene pool on that Trump side with pure evil thrown in. He won’t be able to help himself…the whole blood thing and how he has been raised. I do worry how this administration has warped and jaded me….that I would have such strong feelings about a child (and his mother). As my mother said before she died (Trump had announced a few months prior) “There’s nothing to Melania. If there was any kind substance and decency to her she would have never hooked up the likes of that creature.” My mom basically thought Trump was pure evil. There’s a part of me that is thankful that she isn’t having to live through this shit show. It would probably kill her.

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    Corner Stone says:

    @tobie:

    What makes it off-limits to bring up gender and wonder whether any forthright woman running on her brains and policy chops would appeal to this one demographic?

    Carly Fiorina is a proven business failure and a fucking monster. Meg Whitman is just a moron. Nothing wrong with making the argument, just the subjects do not warrant the measure of discussion as possible candidates.

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  111. 111
    Doug R says:

    @Kathleen: Yeah, we keep hearing how the voting systems were probed, but nothing past that.
    You don’t need to hack any voting machines if you get a few likely Clinton voters tossed off the rolls. What do you think crosscheck was for?
    You could always flip a few votes in tight states or delete some Presidential votes in a place like Detroit or Flint.

    ReplyReply
  112. 112
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Kay: I live in Ohio. I hate his guts .He’ll likely retire before the cuts fully take effect in 2027

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    Teddys Person says:

    @Quinerly: I don’t think Barron has much of a chance. Whether it’s nature or nurture, he’s been exposed to some pretty toxic shit.

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    Kay says:

    @geg6:

    I have to tell you I watched American Crime the other day on (I believe) your recommend. Good show! I was delighted that there is an overtly liberal tv show. That show has a viewpoint, geg, and they aren’t shy about it.

    There was one section of dialogue in the show I watched that was Trump v Obama (not subtle) and I was thinking “HOW did this get past the both sides committee?” I hope no one finds out the writers have opinions.

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  115. 115
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Quinerly:

    Interesting to me that it sounds like it can’t be termed an overdose or even directly related to her most recent use. More like, many decades of drug issues and sleep apnea weakened her heart.

    Sad for her family, but since she was so open about her drug use and other mental health issues, I can’t say I’m really surprised. She was who she was, she was honest about her struggles, and I think her willingness to be open helped a lot of people.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    Folks on our side are mad. Pissed. Don’t wanna hear nothing about your ‘ reason’ for voting for him. Will say ‘phuck you’ in a minute, and continue to bring receipts. I said awhile ago, the Village is shocked at the level of receipts that we are bringing, and that WE aren’t in a Kumbaya mood.

    We’re at Star Trek Movie VI: “Then let them die!”

    The chickens have come home to roost. And they’ve brought friends.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    TenguPhule says:

    @Quinerly:

    I do worry how this administration has warped and jaded me….that I would have such strong feelings about a child (and his mother).

    Reagan, Bush and Trump may have collectively destroyed any faith I have ever had in Democracy.

    ReplyReply
  118. 118
    tobie says:

    @Corner Stone: Fair enough. It’s slim pickings when it comes to Republican women running for either President or governor of a big state. That itself is noteworthy. Actually slim pickings when it comes to female governors in general.

    ReplyReply
  119. 119
    Kathleen says:

    @Chris: Precisely! Amazing how some things never, ever change. You articulated it better than I.

    I saw on earlier thread how Joel Ossoff is being demonized as “The Other”. Rethuglicans have been pulling this shit for decades. If they’re going to demonize people, the least they can do is come up with something new FFS. Hire some new writers or something.

    It’s like the African American woman who was canvassed during the campaign by either an LGM front pager or acquaintance of same. She said something along the lines of if they want to be Fascists, whey can’t they at least be competent Fascists. Are we asking for too much here?

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    Immanentize says:

    @LAO: Well it sounds like your client wasn’t as dumb as Weissmann thought he was.

    ETA Costa Rica is a really nice country….

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
  122. 122
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    You’re trying to reverse engineer something that was Trump’s decision. He only trusts his family members, so he demanded that Ivanka and Jared be his primary advisors. The Republicans were too afraid of the whole façade collapsing to say no.

    And, sadly, very few conservatives see anything wrong with nepotism. They’d be fine with an official aristocracy as long as they got to be part of it, or at least feel like they were part of it.

    ReplyReply
  123. 123
    Kathleen says:

    @Doug R: Rethuglicans have been pulling this shit long before “The Russians”. Now mind you I know they’re bad actors. But to lay all of this at their feet will not enable us to get to the root of our malaise – that the racism of Rethuglican Party and its followers is trying to destroy us.

    To quote W.E.E. Du Bois:

    Today I see more clearly than yesterday that the back of the problem of race and color lies a greater problem which both obscures and implements it: and that is the fact that so many civilized persons are willing to live in comfort even if the price of this is poverty, ignorance, and disease of the majority of their fellow men.

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    Quinerly says:

    @Teddys Person:
    You are being charitable. I never thought I could loathe a child. I’m getting there just because of his name.

    ReplyReply
  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne: “For we shall be the lords and all others our serfs”

    /Republican/Libertarian Mindsets

    Never mind that in that scenario they’re going to literally be on the menu in the lawless wasteland that’s required to get there.

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
    bystander says:

    @geg6:

    Especially since Princlet Snotface and his computer whiz buddy in TX are being scrutinized for collusion with the Russkies.

    That may also explain why Jared wants to push a lot of confidential material into the cloud. Vlad is short and has a hard time reaching the top shelf. Let’s give him a helping hand!

    ReplyReply
  127. 127
    TenguPhule says:

    And proof that bad things once again come in threes:

    Rick Perry Denies Man made Climate Change.

    Trump doesn’t give a shit about AIDS.

    Local Police will not investigate murder of Muslim girl as a hate crime.

    So then, anyone have a good drink recipe?

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think what most people learn pretty early at work is that if you are going to be a huge pain in the ass who demands all kinds of things you have to bring something unique that makes all that trouble worthwhile. They don’t bring anything special. They coulda had Jeb Bush who behaves normally and probably wouldn’t hire family members if they wanted someone who gives speeches on running government like a business.

    Trump is such a shit as a human being that he has to bring something better that more conventional pols can’t. Ivanka and Jared reciting bromides that they learned last week with some half-assed cramming just isn’t enough. No one listening to this will be struck by the words because Al Gore said them first, and better, more than a decade ago. All they’ll notice is his voice (which is bad, BTW).

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  129. 129
    trollhattan says:

    @Quinerly:
    In public he has the affect of a special needs child. No idea whether that’s the case but I wouldn’t rule it out.

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    Quinerly says:

    @TenguPhule:
    A St. Charles…essentially an overlimed gin and tonic with enough Peychaud’s bitters to turn it pink. Go heavy on the craft gin. Use top quality tonic.

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    trollhattan says:

    @TenguPhule: Plutonitinis, shaken, not stirred.

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Quinerly: Ron Reagan Jr. turned out okay. I don’t think the Reagans were as bad as the Trumps, but there’s hope for the lad. :)

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    I’m in the very deepest blue part of Southern California, so I’ll have to wait until I get to IL for a visit to find out what the Trumpers think, though they’re pretty thin on the ground there, too.

    I can’t help but notice that my cousin who lives in Waukesha (WI) has stopped posting about politics. It’s probably a good thing I’m going to miss the family reunion this year, because there might have been blood.

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Kay says:

    We’re only 6 months into this and the only people we hear defending Donald Trump are 1. his lawyers and 2. his children

    You wonder where we go from here, because this isn’t the bottom. There’s too much time left. They may have to bring Tiffany out.

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    Quinerly says:

    @trollhattan:
    I know…I’m ashamed of myself for how I feel. His name is Trump. That’s how I feel. These people have done this to me. And we will never be rid of them.

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Roger Moore:

    He does look like he could play the antagonist in an 80’s teen romance comedy.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    Suzanne says:

    He sounds like my ex-husband, who I look at and wonder how I ever possibly had a low enough opinion of myself that I let him stick it in me. Ugh.

    ETA: I just had to have a conversation with my ex-husband about how he owes me thousands of dollars and he has paid me back a whopping $400. So that may be coloring my opinion.

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    Chris says:

    @Kathleen:

    I mean, fascism doesn’t require anything of its adherents, or leaders, other than being the right tribal identity, and doing lots and lots of hating on race traitors and members of other tribes. The incompetence is baked right into the worldview. If you’re the kind of person who would rather trust the dumbest white man in the world than the smartest black one (and Obama/Trump comes close to being literally that), of course you’re going to have competence problems out the wazoo.

    It’s why the South post-Reconstruction was so desperately poor, backwards, corrupt and class-ridden, even by Gilded Age standards, and in ways that sucked even if you were white. The local Democratic politicians knew that as long as the tribal shibboleths were observed, their voters would let them get away with anything.

    ReplyReply
  139. 139
    The Moar You Know says:

    I still believe the “election” was in reality a coup. Any discussion of what went wrong for Democrats has to include that. If it doesn’t, it’s useless because it’s not addressing facts that need to be faced.

    @Kathleen: I agree. And the focus on “whodunit” is not helpful, because the problem is not who did it, the problem is that it was done at all.

    I’m far more interested in “how” than “who”, because once you figure out how this was done, you can take steps. If you don’t have that figured out, it will happen again and again (but not too many more times, because this crowd of Republicans truly are ready to put an end to elections.)

    We can jail those responsible after making sure this can’t happen again.

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  140. 140
    Ruckus says:

    @ruemara:
    Has it ever really been different? People like to have a modicum of control over their lives and having relatives working for you gives you a lot of control. It’s control that is the issue. Now it is possible that some people do have talents for a job and do it well, even when they are related to someone else at a place of business. And it is possible that the boss doesn’t play favorites. It is of course just as likely that people will fuck off on the job and the bosses son is a fuck up at everything, maybe more likely actually.
    But nepotism in government? Yeah that’s bad. Government should be faceless, because otherwise people might feel like they owe someone something or that someone owes them something. And that’s the end of responsible government. But people have been voting for someone that will do something for them or against someone else since the first ballot was cast. How do we change what is human nature? Or should I say learned human nature?

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  141. 141
    bystander says:

    @Kathleen:

    I saw on an earlier thread how Joel Ossoff is being demonized as “The Other”. Rethuglicans have been pulling this shit for decades. If they’re going to demonize people, the least they can do is come up with something new FFS. Hire some new writers or something.

    I missed that thread but I did catch Joe Scarborough talking about what a commie jewboy Ossoff looked like. Not a single word on Ossoff’s platform but lots about how kinky his jewhair is.

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    Quinerly says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I really didn’t mean to be this controversial on this thread this afternoon. Worse things have been said on this blog. That kid doesn’t have a chance. This family is working hard to destroy this country. I disliked Reagan and briefly worked on Capitol Hill during his administration. Reagan was nothing like Trump. Nancy was probably a pretty decent person. I say pretty decent. This family is like nothing this country has ever had to deal with.

    ReplyReply
  143. 143
    Jeffro says:

    I want to know who Mike Flynn’s “hidden hand” at the NSC is…

    Indeed, if we look at the current NSC it seems to still be stocked in many cases by Mike Flynn’s people. Again, not entirely out of the norm. A new boss isn’t really in a position to fire everyone at once. But Mike Flynn isn’t any former NSC boss. He resigned in disgrace and is at the center of an investigation that is consuming the whole country. Copious reporting says that he has not been permitted to fire a number of Flynn people.

    Who exactly is keeping Cohen-Watnick and others like him in place? Remember, this isn’t my imagination or speculation. McMaster tried to fire him as soon as he took over the NSC. More than not being fired, what juice does he have that is allowing him to carry on major inter-agency battles to which the NSC chief, his nominal boss, is either a bystander or an opponent? You don’t stay in a position like that against that kind of opposition – and certainly not with that much power – unless someone very powerful is on your side.

    There is some unseen power center at work here. Is it the President? Is it Steve Bannon? Is it Flynn? From what I can tell it’s not clear. But it seems pretty important to find out.

    I vote Bannon. But more importantly, I agree with Josh at TPM: we need to find out and then to get these people out.

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  144. 144
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    I wanted to hang on to the fantasy that he does sound like Gilbert Gottfried. Small comforts.

    ReplyReply
  145. 145
    Quinerly says:

    @trollhattan:
    I replied to your comment but it was eaten. So shorter version… I’m essentially ashamed of myself…my thoughts about the Trump family…the entire family. It is what it is.

    ReplyReply
  146. 146
    Redshift says:

    @Kay:

    We’re only 6 months into this and the only people we hear defending Donald Trump are 1. his lawyers and 2. his children

    And the common clay of the New West, who are being interviewed nonstop by major news outlets! Can’t forget them (though we all wish we could)!

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    trollhattan says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):
    Jared–bringer of Middle East peace, conqueror of North Korea, architect of tax reform and healthcare, slumlord of lords, Aflac duck.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    trollhattan says:

    @Quinerly: I know what you mean. If they ever manage to do something of value to society and the country it will be an unwanted accident. I have never encountered a clan so relentlessly self-absorbed and self-serving.

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @trollhattan:

    Jared–bringer of Middle East peace, conqueror of North Korea, architect of tax reform and healthcare, slumlord of lords, Aflac duck.

    Hey now! There’s no call to insult the Duck!

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    TenguPhule says:

    Anyhoo, Jared and Ivanka: a pair of empty-headed, entitled dilettantes.

    Two Trumps, One Cup?

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    GregB says:

    It is like watching the cheesy national version of Community Auditions but instead of clapping for a shitty version of Tomorrow from Annie we are expected to clap at Young Jared’s shitty impression of Henry Kissinger.

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    Doug Gardner says:

    @LAO: That’s funny, my bet was tomorrow by midnight (Tue/Wed boundary). Looks like my powers of prediction continue an unbroaken sequence of failures.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153
    Juju says:

    @Betty Cracker: My guess is that the loves and raised beautiful children thing was the only thing remotely close to any truth Hillary could come up with at the time, or even now. Think about it. Knowing what you do of Trump, come up with something nice to say about him. I can’t. I think the closest to nice I can come up with is that he’s never kicked a dog, as far as I know, but I wouldn’t put that past him. You can’t really say something like that in a debate situation.

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    Ruckus says:

    @Kay:

    They just never grew up, none of them. No one made them do it.

    No one around them, responsible for them, or themselves knew/knows how to grow up. And they didn’t have to, they were wealthy enough to pay off their mistakes/bullshit or avoid responsibility for them in the first place.

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Juju:

    The only reason he’s never kicked a dog is that he’s never let a dog near him. True, Mitt tortured a dog by tying it on top of his car, but at least he had a dog.

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  156. 156
    Ruckus says:

    @rikyrah:

    It’s that level of bitterness out here – ON OUR SIDE.
    And, nobody was ready for it. They don’t know how to handle it.

    Even some/a lot of people on our side weren’t and aren’t ready for it.

    ReplyReply
  157. 157
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    Paul Ryan defended Trump by saying he was too stupid and naive to know he’s not supposed to tell the head of the FBI to stop investigating him.

    The media wanted someone dumber than they are to be president, and they got what they wanted.

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Quinerly:

    I don’t know how you conclude “sleep apnea” out of that mess.

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    Juju says:

    @Kathleen: If we got rid of the electoral college it would be more difficult to hack the system and make it work. Hillary got the most votes.

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    Kathleen says:

    @Chris: Never thought of it that way. Whenever I despair about what’s going on today I keep reminding myself what African Americans endured in the South and the courage it had to take to obtain rights. The South was run by Fascists, and African Americans were terrorized. That helps me keep all of this in perspective. They prevailed. White people have something to look to to draw courage and inspiration.

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    janelle says:

    @different-church-lady: Don’t hold your breath. I’d love to see it happen, but I’m not getting my hopes up. At best, we might seem him get impeached by a Democratic House in 2019, and then almost certainly acquitted afterwards (the threshold to remove him from office would require at least 15 Senate Republicans to be on board). I’ll be quite shocked if we’re not stuck with this clown until 2020.

    ReplyReply
  162. 162
    Kathleen says:

    @The Moar You Know: Yes! I don’t know if you watch Law & Order, but your comment reminded me of something Prosecutor Adam Schiff would say, which, was, basically, whenever McCoy and his Asst DA complained about the judge, the jury, the stuff the defense was pulling, Adam brought them back to Process 101. “Find the evidence that links the defendant to the scene of the crime.” He’d also throw in a not so subtle variation of “Stop whining and do your jobs”.

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    Quinerly says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):
    I don’t either. I was going to check for other articles but I have been too busy hating on a young Trump spawn, mostly because of his name. Priorities.😈

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    MCA1 says:

    @Mnemosyne: There was definitely some “He can’t be all that bad – look at his children! They’re so polished and articulate” from establishment GOP’ers in my life during/after the RNC, for sure. They were desperate to have the Orange Plague humanized, so they were latching on to whatever they could. I think for many that eventually morphed into the still heard but now mostly pilloried “Ivanka as moderating influence” meme. But I knew of several staunch Republicans who were unable to see how generally unaccomplished, soulless and low-grade Uday and Qusay were, and were just dazzled by Lolita’s looks. They didn’t even notice the fact that not one of them told an anecdote during their convention speeches that successfully portrayed their father as an actual human being.

    No doubt there’s some of that with the rubes, too. The First Family looks smart and successful by traditional measures, are famous and from NYC, and dress much better than the fat man with the long red ties.

    It’s all so quintessentially, shabbily Trump, too: a lot of talk about how beautiful and great and amazing these young people were, but it’s all just slick branding and packaging. Then when you stop watching, they’re mostly put to work maximizing the family’s cashing in on the election before you figure out you’ve been conned.

    ReplyReply
  165. 165
    Ruckus says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    This state may vote blue as a whole but there are some very, very bright red areas. Red CA isn’t very far away from you. I know, I see it all the time.

    ReplyReply
  166. 166
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @janelle: You can always hope he has a debilitating stroke. All that KFC can’t be good. Hopefully live on television.

    ReplyReply
  167. 167
    Suzanne says:

    @trollhattan:

    Jared–bringer of Middle East peace, conqueror of North Korea, architect of tax reform and healthcare, slumlord of lords, Aflac duck.

    New Balloon Juice tag right here.

    ReplyReply
  168. 168
    Quinerly says:

    @trollhattan: I’m kinda beating this to death and beating up on myself a bit for my strong feelings about this entire family. Perhaps I’m just on overload. This family has unleashed something that can’t be undone. I’m convinced that this country will never be the same. Yes, we will survive as a nation but it will be different. Back to the spawn of evil😈…I’m sure Uday and Qusay were cute and innocent as children. Take your pick…I’m talking about the dead ones and the living ones. Pick your poison.

    ReplyReply
  169. 169
    janelle says:

    @geg6: Wait… I don’t think Bernie would have won either, and BernieBros annoy the shit out of me, too, but are you seriously saying that if Bernie had been the Democratic nominee that you wouldn’t have voted for him, even knowing that his loss would make Donald Trump the president?

    How does that make you any better than the BernieBro tools and Jill Stein people who refused to vote for Hillary last November?

    ReplyReply
  170. 170
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Kay:

    One of the things I’m most disappointed in the public for is the passive acceptance of the nepotism.

    I am sort of amazed that I have heard the word nepotism only about once or twice in the last five months of watching the pundit shows. It’s like they can’t bring themselves to face the issue at all.

    ReplyReply
  171. 171
    Kathleen says:

    @bystander: Why am I not surprised? What is the matter with these people, other than the fact they’re no talent, lazy, soulless, ghoulish hacks?

    ReplyReply
  172. 172
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): I know. It clearly is nepotism but nobody wanted to say it. Any ideas anybody on why?

    ReplyReply
  173. 173
    The Moar You Know says:

    I don’t know if you watch Law & Order

    @Kathleen: Nope. But that’s a fine analogy. I also want to be super-clear; we do have to find out who did it. But we have to fix the actual problem, the ability to steal elections for the GOP that has somehow been baked into our system, before we hang the assholes who did it.

    ReplyReply
  174. 174
    Suzanne says:

    ABC and WaPo are reporting that Otto Warmbier died. That sucks.

    ReplyReply
  175. 175
    Kathleen says:

    @Juju: I used to be electoral college agnostic but not anymore. I also didn’t realize how it had its roots in racism (shocking) until I saw a link to an article which may have been here at BJ or on Twitter. Yeah, all remnants of those laws and procedures need to go, but it would require amendment to the Constitution, I believe.

    ReplyReply
  176. 176
    Kathleen says:

    @The Moar You Know: Yup. I totally agree with you.

    ReplyReply
  177. 177
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku (aka Junior G-Man) 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Remember the other day you mentioned Trump’s fans on Reddit?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/6i796t/the_nono_subreddit_reaction_to_the_finsbury_attack/

    ReplyReply
  178. 178
    Juju says:

    @Kathleen: It would be difficult to get rid of the electoral college, but well worth it.

    ReplyReply
  179. 179
    Kathleen says:

    @Juju: I would never see it in my lifetime, that’s for sure.

    ReplyReply
  180. 180
    Aleta says:

    It’s as if some odious orange buffoon is forcing us to watch his untalented, awful children perform in badly staged recitals.

    It’s exactly what he’s doing. And extorting us to pay for the episodes, plus interest, as he tells us to Enjoy!

    ReplyReply
  181. 181
    jl says:

    @Kathleen: A rough fix for the electoral college that would not require a constitutional amendment would be state level laws requiring the electors be chosen in proportion to the state popular vote, or by Congressional district. Would have to convince a critical number of large and medium sized states to do it at about the same time. Then small states might realize that further opposition to a malfunctioning constitutional relic would be useless and they would not so ferociously oppose a constitutional amendment. That would be only a partial solution, for example, in tight races there would still be the occasional faithless elector problem, which I don’t think has been tested in court much.

    I don’t think it is hopeless, and even if a constitutional amendment to fix never happens making that change would be a very beneficial partial solution.

    ReplyReply
  182. 182
    Quinerly says:

    @Suzanne:
    Oh…..no. 😢

    ReplyReply
  183. 183
    jl says:

    @Quinerly: Almost as if he had hung in there until he could get home and see his loved ones again. Sad news.

    ReplyReply
  184. 184
    Aleta says:

    God help us if he’s in charge of hiring his friends to overhaul and consolidate government computer networks.

    ReplyReply
  185. 185
    Kathleen says:

    @jl: @jl: Wow. Thank you for that. I wonder how much energy there would be behind that. I do think my Son in Law, who votes Republican (except for Bill Clinton) but who thinks it doesn’t matter who’s in office because both sides don’t get me started. Feeling Joycean there for a hot minute. Anyway, he believes that popular vote should prevail so if someone who doesn’t care about politics thinks that, there might be more like him.

    ReplyReply
  186. 186
    Suzanne says:

    @Quinerly: Yeah, it’s really, really sad. I just read the Atlantic’s piece about North Korea this morning, and it underscored how there are just no good options for dealing with them. I would not be surprised if Trump does something stupid because of this.

    We should ban US travel to the DPRK. How to get China to cut them off is the key question.

    ReplyReply
  187. 187
    The Moar You Know says:

    ABC and WaPo are reporting that Otto Warmbier died. That sucks.

    @Suzanne: He was missing most of his brain by the time they got him back here. He was dead already.

    The North Koreans killed him. And they’ll probably kill more Americans who fall into their hands. This will get bad.

    We should ban US travel to the DPRK.

    @Suzanne: Very sure we have. You have to go in sideways, through China. I don’t know why any American would go there, even the super-religious insane ones. They’ll kill you.

    ReplyReply
  188. 188
    Steeplejack says:

    @Kay:

    They know they’ve traded away a lot and they are just hoping that they’ll get something really, really good for that trade. In a way they can’t give up, because they’re like those people who fall for Internet scams and are waiting for the lottery wins after they keep paying “transfer fees.”

    This is what worries me about the prospect of Trump’s impeachment, in a “be careful what you wish for” way. There is a large segment of Trump’s base that will never admit to Trump’s guilt about anything and will never arrive at “Okay, he got what he deserved, so that’s that.” As you said, they are so invested in getting some huge future payout from their support of Trump that if he goes down they will conclude that the Democrats are the ones who prevented them from getting the big score, and they will go nuts. It will be as if some large but unspecified amount of money or benefits was taken directly from them. “Trump was gonna bring back jobs! Trump was gonna fix the opioid epidemic!” Trump was gonna do this, Trump was gonna do that. Their rage will be volcanic.

    ReplyReply
  189. 189

    Good grief. You’re not kidding or even slightly exaggerating. He sounds like that libertarian high school senior who thinks only he knows how the world works. What an unbelievably obnoxious face and voice. I’m not surprised by his content-free language, at least. I am told that his business strategy has been to show up, spout useless buzzwords, applaud himself for being a genius, and leave while employees try to figure out how the Hell to even pretend to be faithful to the gibberish he just dumped on them.

    @rikyrah:

    That’s the reason why they cling to the most ridiculous bullshyt, because they don’t want to admit that THEY lacked character.

    Let me explain the ways of the Racist White Man, for you have suffered unendingly the shit he produces, but I was raised inside his sanctums and have heard the words of his secret heart.

    You are close, but lack one extra detail. It is way beyond just being willing to vote for Trump. This was all supposed to work. They elected a dumbass, meanspirited, incompetent, self-absorbed, whiny bigot who openly spouted the prejudices they are afraid to say in public. They elected Trump to prove that they are the greatest and ignorant racist assholery is correct. This is dogma. He was supposed to prove they’re not stupid and not bigoted by fixing everything with his stupid bigotry. He was supposed to win so that everyone would see that his supporters, who are just like him, were right about everything. He is the white man’s tantrum made flesh, and their entire self-image is bet on Trump being right. It will take some time and considerable humiliation before they figure out a way to dump him without accepting they are wrong about everything.

    ReplyReply
  190. 190
    nightranger says:

    He kind of sounds like Pee Wee Herman.

    ReplyReply
  191. 191
    rikyrah says:

    @Jeffro:

    Who is the hidden hand indeed?

    ReplyReply
  192. 192
    mr_gravity says:

    @Chris: This.

    Plus I’m pretty sure that Ivanka is there to jump in when the old man starts talking about bombing Australia or whoever is making fun of him at the moment.

    ReplyReply
  193. 193
    MCA1 says:

    @janelle: Amen. Adam Schiff and Pete Buttigieg and Patrick Murphy and whoever else, as you know, are white dudes. I get what you’re saying and I think I understand your point, but “No one wants to hear from or have the support of Caucasian males even if they’ve been liberal Democrats forever” is not a helpful way to express it.

    ReplyReply
  194. 194
    jl says:

    @Kathleen: There are efforts to require proportional election of electoral college in a many states. I’ve worked for it here in CA. Why not check if there is a group working on it in your state? Every little bit helps.

    ReplyReply
  195. 195
    Suzanne says:

    @The Moar You Know: Officially, American travel to the DPRK is “strongly discouraged” or something. Not banned. I wonder if we made it clear that we would not be saving your ass if dumbasses would be dissuaded from going. Ugh.

    ReplyReply
  196. 196
    rikyrah says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):
    Because they are so phucking unqualified

    ReplyReply
  197. 197
    rikyrah says:

    @Steeplejack:
    I don’t care if they go nuts.
    Really don’t.
    They have to phucking face reality.

    ReplyReply
  198. 198
    rikyrah says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Their vessel for White Supremacy is an international embarrassment.

    ReplyReply
  199. 199

    @rikyrah:
    Yes. But they thought that he would do exactly this shit, and the world would fall down and worship him, which would prove they have been right about everything (especially their vile, racist beliefs) all along and are better than us.

    ReplyReply
  200. 200
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    What a whiny little snot.

    ReplyReply
  201. 201
    DeeFromTexas says:

    Has anyone noticed how very much Jared Kushner resembles Tom Marvolo Riddle (the guy who became Lord Voldemort)? I doublechecked and looked at some photos of teenaged Tom on the Internet http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/te.....le-3-photo and it really does seem like a striking resemblance.

    Not that that necessarily means anything of course….

    ReplyReply
  202. 202
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Kathleen: You could work for ratification of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact by your state legislature or in other states that have yet to ratify it. THe NPVIC goes into effect only when states with >269 EVs have ratified it (& then only if it passes the inevitable court tests) but as of the moment it’s only 109 EVs short.

    ReplyReply
  203. 203
    KS in MA says:

    @Kathleen: That’s terrific. Didn’t know they had an El Sistema in Cincinnati. Thanks!

    ReplyReply
  204. 204
    KS in MA says:

    @stinger: It’s the Botox. He and wife both look like they’ve had their entire faces done. Or of course they could be zombies.

    ReplyReply
  205. 205
    jl says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Thanks, that was the campaign that was at the back of my mind. And I forgot that it is already passed and ready to go in CA. Everyone in a state that hasn’t done this already should work on it.

    ReplyReply
  206. 206
    KS in MA says:

    @trollhattan: And don’t forget Lion of Judah, Sweetheart of Sigma Chi, etc.

    ReplyReply
  207. 207
    Juju says:

    @KS in MA: zombies don’t have smooth skin like that. I think they are like Stepford wives. I have doubts as to wether they bleed and I’m waiting for their hardware to fail and watch them go into a repetitive loop. Then I will know for certain.

    ReplyReply
  208. 208
    evodevo says:

    Looks and sounds like every college Young Republican I have ever been acquainted with … they have not changed in 40 years lol

    ReplyReply
  209. 209
    Ohio Mom says:

    @jl: Awarding Electoral College votes in proportion to a state’s popular vote break-out, yes! Awarding electoral votes by Congressional district, No, no, no!

    My district is a case in point: like almost all districts in Ohio, it has been carefully gerrymandered so that no Democrat ever has a chance. As a result, although my county went for Hillary, it reliably sends two Republican Reps to Congress.

    You will create continual Republican presidencies if you change the current Electoral College set-up to awarding EC votes by who wins each Congressional district.

    ReplyReply
  210. 210
    JR in WV says:

    @TenguPhule:

    It started when they pretended Reagan was qualified to be anything besides a play-actor. And got away with it. Lucky that time, not so much this time.

    ReplyReply
  211. 211
    JR in WV says:

    @TenguPhule:

    So then, anyone have a good drink recipe?

    Sure!!

    Tall glass full of ice,
    Large shot of top shelf tequila,
    shorter shot of good orange liquor,
    juice of a fresh lime,
    stir,
    fill the rest of the glass with tonic.

    Don’t drink too many, done right they are strong!

    ReplyReply
  212. 212
    Juju says:

    @JR in WV: you sort of lose me with the tonic, but I think I’d try it even though it would probably give me a migraine.

    ReplyReply
  213. 213
    JR in WV says:

    @janelle:

    I’m what they call around here a “Yellow Dog Democrat” – which of course means I will vote for the yellow dog under the porch before I will vote for a Republican. Bernie would have made it hard, though.

    ReplyReply
  214. 214
    JR in WV says:

    @Juju:

    It’s a less strong margarita, kind of. But I like Gin and Tonic, or Rum and Tonic, but that’s a little sweet for me. Wife drinks those, and I drink the gin. Or the Margarita Tonic, above. The lime (and you really only need half a lime) subdues the tonic. And you don’t need any sweetener, which I like.

    ReplyReply

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