the modern Democratic Party is a Hillary Clinton RT for an ad for a $150 million movie on top of an ad for a hedge fund. pic.twitter.com/tJFt3TBGY5
— andrew kaczynski ?? (@KFILE) June 15, 2017
Somebody is still bitter he can’t find Batman underoos in his size…
************
Apart from the inevitable Friday News Drop, what’s on the agenda for the day?
Possible flashpoints:
Strange new statement from Deputy AG Rosenstein on 'anonymous allegations', says "Americans should be skeptical". pic.twitter.com/BxRCCvRWXg
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 16, 2017
WaPo FLAG: Special counsel investigating Jared Kushner’s business dealings as part of Russia probe, officials say https://t.co/BsQ8W2zT5Z
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 15, 2017
What gave him away? pic.twitter.com/czNX76gBkC
— California Satellite (@JerryBrownRocks) June 15, 2017
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone???
raven
After seeming like she was a goner three weeks ago my former boss has rallied in her fight with cancer. I’m going to go over to the ATL for a lunch with her and other colleagues.
zach
Get the feeling all hell is going to break loose on Trump’s twitter today… no sign he’s will to listen to an attorney who will tell him that’s a bad idea.
Q: Did Republicans during the Clinton impeachment proceedings use that as an excuse to stop all legislation, tie up appointments, etc? Too young to remember… wouldn’t be surprised at all if there were good examples of the doing that.
JPL
Did Steve Bannon ask Rosenstein for a favor, or was that a request from Sessions?
@raven: Welcome news indeed.
raven
“The bravery of a homeowner put an end to a 3-day long manhunt, Fitzhugh said.
As the inmates tried to escape police once again, they ran through a wooded area to a home on Pruitt Road, near the rural community of Christiana.
“The homeowner was alerted somehow, he looked outside and saw the suspects trying to steal his vehicle,” Lt. Bill Miller from the Tennessee Highway Patrol said late Friday.
He called his neighbor and both men, each armed with a gun, confronted the fugitives.
Having lost their weapons in the crash, Dubose and Rowe surrendered, authorities said.
“I can’t say enough about the bravery of the homeowner, and what they took on, the wherewithal to call us and give us the information so we could get over there and apprehend these two subjects,” Fitzhugh said”
Cermet
@raven: First, glad your boss is doing better. As for the killers, the only reason they are alive – thanks to these two people. These two brave people very likely saved other innocent lives by capturing these cold blooded killers. First time in a long time personal guns were used for a constructive purpose.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Baud
I don’t understand the first tweet, but I’m not sure I want to know.
Baud
@Cermet: Given the number of guns out there, it is statistically impossible for them never go be used constructively.
Felonius Monk
I see Steve (the cat, not Bannon) is in the doghouse again. Don’t you dare sell him, Cole.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: The AP story omits that little detail entirely.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@raven:
Interesting that they surrendered to a sure trip to the needle.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Somebody has problems
Manyakitty
@raven: Fabulous! Also, too, fuck cancer.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s not me, is it? I’ve had enough of those.
Baud
@raven: That’s quite a turnaround. Glad to hear it.
Baud
@Baud: Go = to.
HeleninEire
@raven: Oh that’s wonderful news. Enjoy your lunch with her.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: That’s some good news to end the week with. Wishing her continued health.
@Baud: Hillary Clinton is evil, horrible, wicked, mean, etc., etc., etc. We’ve been hearing about the awfulness of the Clintons since I was in my 20s and I’m nearly middle aged. YAWN.
Amir Khalid
My guess would be Cuba, i.e. Trump junking Obama’s policy of re-engagement. Meanwhile his Cabinet continues dismantling Obama-era regs meant to protect people, and a Republican Congress runs its own horror show.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: I knew I didn’t want to know.
It’s funny to see all these young white dudes who think they’re avant garden when they’ve simply adopted the same culture as old white Republican baby boomers.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: I think Clinton said she likes the movie “Wonder Woman”. And he’s saying that it’s a betrayal to liberalism to like something that cost money to produce.
Of course that makes no sense, liberals like infrastructure and that costs money. In fact the patron saint of liberalism is FDR and he was filthy rich and worked on Wall street before becoming governor.
This is the result of Sanders decrying money, which is ridiculous cuz he’s a millionaire who uses tax shelters.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: You probably have problems too, but in this case I was referring to the tweeter.
In other news, LA police or Keystone Kops?
Baud
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: What’s with the hedge fund though? Is that referring to the statue?
Anyway, the only thing missing is “Posted from my iPhone.”
bystander
I’m realizing that the Moanin’ Joe repub crowd is thrilled to be back on “both sides do it” after the loon took aim at the repubs on the ball diamond. Pelosi will have to take her most extreme reps to heel. Ted Nugent calls for civility.
A welcome change from discussing the treasonous rot that infects the core of the repub party.
Baud
@bystander: They will always regress to the norm.
Patricia Kayden
Remember when Trump claimed that if Hillary Clinton was elected, she would be under FBI investigation for many years culminating in criminal charges? Projection to the max because here we are with Trump being investigated by the FBI, along with many of his henchmen.
Patricia Kayden
@bystander:
LOL!! And pigs are flying.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: yeah, without looking it up, and judging only by his the inference of his lameo attack, I guess the bronze statue was financed by either a hedge fund or someone who works at a hedge fund.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Baud: exactly. I bet he’s a new york yankee fan, as well.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I was confused about that Tweet too, I’m still confused.
Cause we all know how Apple doesn’t like to make money, they give those fruity phones away.
JPL
Preet has responded to Rosenstein.
https://twitter.com/PreetBharara
?BillinGlendaleCA
@bystander:
I thought he was dead…he’s not? Thanks Obama.
satby
@raven: Good news! Hope her rally continues.
Baud
A headline today from the paper of record garbage.
Yoda Dog
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Wilmer isn’t helping (as usual) but ponies being too cool to make money predates 2016.
Karmus
@raven:
Glad to read that, raven.
Aleta
@zach: His aides should track down John Barron to tweet for him.
satby
@raven: @Baud: But most law enforcement (in my experience) wouldn’t want that kind of help honestly… If the two convicts still had their weapons that story could have ended an entirely different way. The fantasy Dirty Harry that many gun owners see when they look in the mirror doesn’t need to be encouraged.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: Something tells me these three will find it difficult to become members of the LAPD.
satby
@Baud: yes, the statue was commissioned by a hedge fund.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: No kidding. They didn’t accost a single unarmed black dude during their escapade. Not police material.
different-church-lady
@Baud: It’s a Bro not understanding woman things. Again.
Baud
@satby: Thank you, satby.
Immanentize
@raven: that is such good news. Enjoy the gathering and the moments like this one.
debbie
@raven:
Great news first thing in the morning (for a change)!
OzarkHillbilly
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I had that thought too.
bystander
Finally Joe has turned the discussion to how much Trump is like Bill Clinton. According to Joe, Clinton was the last big liar in the WH and Trump could turn it around if he did the revamp BC did. Forget that Clinton’s unpopularity was because he tried to give lesbians and gays the right to serve in the armed forces without persecution and he tried to devise a solution to the healthcare debacle. But that’s the same thing as colluding with a foreign government, violating the emoluments clause on an hourly basis, and actively trying to obstruct justice.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@OzarkHillbilly:
Remember when Mittens used to do that
debbie
,
Lapassionara
Good morning, everyone.
I find the Deputy AG’s statement ironic to the max, given that Trump benefitted from his voter’s lack of skepticism and their poor judgment about his “promises.” Remember, “trust me, I can fix this. We will be winning so much, you will get tired of winning”?
OzarkHillbilly
@different-church-lady: Women have things? I don’t understand.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@different-church-lady: This! He wouldn’t said shit If Hillary had liked some Mark Walhberg movie. But movies with a strong female protagonist obviously makes him uncomfortable.
Immanentize
What does Rosenstein’s press release even mean? That the DOJ never leaks? Untrue That foreign governments are making up fake news? Possible. That Trump ordered Sessions to Order Rosenstein to do something about “fake news?”. Likely.
We will know when Trump mentions the release in a tweet or in his Cuba presser.
PS. On Cuba — I hate Bob Menendez.
Patricia Kayden
@bystander: I don’t recall Russian hackers compromising our democracy under President Clinton but that’s just me. President Clinton, despite his personal failings, was an excellent President (I would put him as second to President Obama, who is my personal favorite).
Trump is a disaster. No way can he turn around his failing presidency. Trump won’t even admit that Russia tried to interfere with our election. How can he possibly turn things around when he won’t admit the obvious?
germy
I liked this response to kaczynski’s tweet:
Kay
DeVos is holding a “fathers and families event” (Father’s Day). They invited The Family Research Council, a group that is so far Right DeVos went to great lengths to distance herself from them at her confirmation hearing. The invitation to the Family Research Council caused the national PTA to back out because the Family Research Council promotes “conversion therapy” and the national PTA’s position is that conversion therapy has no scientific basis and is harmful to students. The national PTA is decidedly “mainstream” partly because it’s HUGE and it has elected governance. The PTA would have been by far the largest group as far as members among those attending.
Immanentize
@germy: that is s fine response!
Baud
@germy: E
Wait, that guy works for CNN??? Why are they allowing him to tweet such things? Didn’t they fire some guy for calling Trump a piece of shit?
randy khan
My cynical mind wonders if the Rosenstein statement actually is an attempt to deflect people who might be wondering if he’s leaking information. It wouldn’t be the first time somebody did that.
JPL
@germy: That’s a great response.
Baud
@Kay: Good for the PTA.
Lapassionara
@bystander: thank you for watching so I don’t have to.
satby
@Kay: IIRC, the FRC is also classified as a hate group by the SPLC.
Hal
I was listening to Dahlia Litwick’s Amicus podcast recently where she was talking with Leon Neyfakh about Rod Rosenstein as one of those professionals who is always seemingly above politics. Reading Neyfakh’s Slate article on the same subject, this really sticks out for me:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/05/rod_rosenstein_is_being_used.html
Peale
@Immanentize: yep. Bob is representing the State of Mendendez here.
satby
Well, you all have a lovely day. I’m getting off my lazy ass and dragging myself and my soaps to the farmers market. Got everything in my yard planted in time for most of the rain, including a last minute Japanese maple, now I get to sit back and watch it grow. The best part of gardening!
germy
I was wondering what he meant by “conflicted” but now I think I understand: he means the investigators have conflicts of interest?
Investigate the investigators!
Chyron HR
The modern Republican party is a mentally incompetent white nationalist sex offender stammering “I didn’t do it, nobody saw me do it, you can’t prove anything!”
But, sure, that retweet is really bad and stuff also too I guess.
PaulWartenberg
I shall see you in Chicago this weekend for vacay.
Hal
Speaking of Wonder Woman, I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I did see the no man’s land scene (someone uploaded a bad recording to youtube) and it gave me chills, grainy video an all. I hate going to the movies, but I might have to make an exception for this one. But I might just save it for home viewing since the movie is supposed to come out in August.
Bobby Thomson
Good lord. Is Rosenstein being that clumsy to signal that Trump asked him to “get out there” that he “personally isn’t under investigation” in probably exactly the same heavy handed approach he used on Comey? Or is he just a lot more stupid and lacking in political survival skills than I assumed?
Weaselone
@satby:
This is not technically correct. The statue was commissioned by State Street Global Advisors (an asset management firm) to promote SHE (an ETF) and women in positions of corporate leadership.
Cheryl Rofer
Speculation on the Rosenstein statement includes
1) Something seriously bad for Trump is coming from one of our intelligence allies.
2) Trump wanted him to agree with Trump’s earlier tweets and this is the minimum damage Rosenstein felt he could do.
3) The pee tape will be released today.
germy
OzarkHillbilly
@Hal: Ezekiel 25:17. “The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness.”.
Weaselone
@Chyron HR:
The Democratic Party is a coalition party. Part of that coalition is indeed Wall Street and Hollywood people that have or at least feign interest in social justice issues. Or, you know just think that competent governance is more important to their bottom lines than tax cuts.
rikyrah
@raven:
That’s good Raven. She will appreciate the moral boost from you all.
Bobby Thomson
@JPL: Measured.
God, Rosenstein is such a weasel. He’ll find a way to fire Mueller when he’s asked as easily as that great “textualist” Scalia always found a way to ignore the text of provisions he didn’t like.
Betty Cracker
@Cheryl Rofer: Pee tape! Pee tape! Pee tape!
@Kay: For real? What a vile sack of shit.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m going to 4th Street Fantasy convention in Minneapolis today and the rest of the weekend. JMN (Tissue Thin Pseudonym) will be there too. We’ll have our own little mini BJ meetup.
Bobby Thomson
@Yoda Dog: yeah, but he bred the fuck out of those ponies and rode them as hard as he could.
Kay
@satby:
DeVos is one of the eternally victimized conservatives. She often begins speeches with a line about how unfairly she has been treated. She’ll portray it as some kind of affront but the fact is she was asked about this at her confirmation hearing and she distanced herself from this group. Her family has some kind of wingnut grift foundation that donated to the FRC and DeVos was listed as an officer on tax filings. She said this was an “error” which was an obvious lie:
Vice President. On a tax form. She lied about it- easily and without even seeming to care. Hassan was good at questioning DeVos. She has a low key style that is really effective with conservatives who are convinced they are victims and can’t be questioned because that’s a “free speech” violation under the Confederate States of America constitution, or something.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: I feel a “Heckuva job, Brownie…” moment coming on.
Baud
@germy:
I have a feeling The Wedding Planner II might not be as good as the original.
germy
rikyrah
@Felonius Monk:
Oh no, what did Steve do?
He scares me, but Cole knows that he is deep in his heart ??
germy
@OzarkHillbilly:
Only the best people, etc.
Morzer
@Felonius Monk:
I suspect the next Tweet in the Sale of Steve epic will be a plea for armed rescuers to de-tree Cole and restrain an enraged cat.
Citizen_X
@Chyron HR:
And, it singlehandedly defines the Democratic Party. Quite a feat for a casual RT, eh?
raven
@satby: That’s one perspective.
rikyrah
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Wonder Woman rocked.
This guy can kick rocks.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: And all this time I thought perjury was a crime. I guess IOKIYAR.
Weaselone
@Kay:
Her schtick should be as obvious to anyone from the Midwest as Trump’s was to people from urban areas of the Northeast.
rikyrah
I am sure that I don’t have to tell anyone here, but calling your Senators needs to be on the agenda for today.
rikyrah
Remember…the legislative evil known as Trumpcare continues-IN SECRET- in the Senate.
Cheryl Rofer
The morning’s whining has begun.
I make a practice of not linking to Trump’s tweets. I either screenshot them or copy the text. I don’t want to give him the stats, even though I am only one. I don’t follow him either.
rikyrah
@germy:
That tweet is brilliant ??
Cheryl Rofer
But I will embed Cole’s tweet:
Morzer
@Cheryl Rofer:
Could this be history’s first recorded case of attempted seppuku by Maine Coon? Has Cole’s attempt at domesticity finally tipped him over the edge? Should we stage an intervention – and if so, who has the suit of plate armor handy?
rikyrah
@Hal:
Story about that scene:
“The suits” at the studio didn’t “get” that scene. They didn’t understand why it was needed. The female director insisted that the scene stay-believing that this was the scene that turned Diana into Wonder Woman.
The director was right.?
Another Scott
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I see that Wilmer finally filed his 2016 annual financial report (on June 4).
It’s here. I haven’t had time to read it yet.
[ Names substituted to foil the trolls. ]
Here’s a story about it:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
rikyrah
@Cheryl Rofer:
Have a commenter on another blog that is totally convinced the tape will drop. I dunno. This person also believes underaged girls are involved.
Baud
Interesting if true
rikyrah
@germy:
I read that and pursed the lips.
Betty Cracker
Speaking of pets, I had a dream last night that someone in my family had ordered a retriever puppy to be delivered to my house. In the dream, I was waiting for it to be delivered with great anticipation, even though I disapproved of ordering a dog as if it were a package of coffee pods. I woke up before the delivery came and was disappointed not to get a chance to find out what kind of puppy it was and play with it!
Baud
@Another Scott:
Heh. Nice touch.
rikyrah
@Kay:
She is not a decent person.
At.all.?
OzarkHillbilly
@Another Scott:
Head? Meet desk.
Aleta
@Lapassionara:
Kay
@Weaselone:
I have to say, no one even pretended to buy DeVos. She’s been a far Right GOP operative for 30 years. She was barely confirmed which is unheard of for Secretary of Education. It was gratifying because it’s all true 1. she is a far Right political operative and everyone knows it and 2. she’s absolutely unqualified for that job.
It’s particularly insulting because a big part of her job is cheerleading for “merit”- she has to go around the country and tell 17 year olds that if they work hard and rise through the ranks they can succeed. That the game ISN’T rigged. They have to believe that! It’s the belief they have to accept or they won’t bother trying. That rule does not and has never applied to her. It’s important to be CREDIBLE. This complete abandonment of even attempting to have SOME connection between what one says and what one does is really fucking disturbing and damaging .
One of the scolding lectures she delivers is on how young people have to constantly re-train. They have to “upskill” and “stay nimble” and always be learning and adding “skill sets”. She did none of this. She has a 40 year old bachelors degree and no relevant work experience, yet she was promoted to this job. You can’t do this to people. You can’t tell them to do difficult things that you don’t do. It’s just bullshit. Words.
D58826
Saw something on Tweeter about a stabbing(s) near Parliament in London. But no details
Also saw that Ted Nugent has seen the light. In a statement he said he will tone down his rhetoric and challenges the left to follow his responsible example. He did not apologize for any of his previous statements. (sigh)
germy
@rikyrah:
Cheryl Rofer
@rikyrah: I lean toward the explanation that Trump is raging and insisted Rosenstein put out a statement. It’s possible that was provoked by WaPo or NYT checking a story before they publish it today, but there seems to be enough stimulus out there to Trump’s fragile ego.
Also: My kittehs like their food at 5 am too, but I usually wake up at 5, and they are polite enough not to start meowing until somewhat after 5. The other day it was 5:25, very late for me.
And: We are having forest fires in New Mexico, so I had to close up the entire house last night. Still smoky out there.
satby
@PaulWartenberg: is there a meet-up planned?
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
I’ve always thought underage girls were involved.
Quinerly
Grassley launching his investigation: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/338057-grassley-rankles-gop-with-new-comey-investigation
D58826
So the D’s won the ball game last night and promptly gave to Trophy to the R’s to go into Scalise’s office. Nice touch.
I just wonder if the party of Cruz, Gohmert, Brooks, Collins, and Steve King et. al. would have done the same thing if the situation had been reversed.
I guess to ask the question is to suspect the answer.
different-church-lady
@D58826: Shorter Nugent: “Holy crap, MY people can get shot too?”
Another Scott
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Yup.
Almost immediately the “brave girl” statue was decried as a publicity stunt by critics of the hedge fund that paid for it. “If they’re so worried about girls and women being empowered, why don’t they themselves have more women in the C-Suite? And what about women actually striking on IWD?” is the kind of thing I heard at the time. E.g..
Cheers,
Scott.
Quinerly
@Another Scott:
Nice little companion piece: https://vtdigger.org/2017/06/13/one-family-two-schools-questions-swirl-around-another-sanders-deal/
D58826
@Quinerly: Well I guess there are a few Goopers that may not have totally sold out. Will have to see if it is a real investigation or just a way to relieve the pressure and then slow walk it to death.
liberal
@Kay:
Yep. If only everyone learned JavaScript, unemployment and hunger would end.
OzarkHillbilly
@Cheryl Rofer: Our cat doesn’t meow for her food until I start to get the Woofmiester his morning meal. Then she won’t stop until her bowl hits the countertop.
JPL
@rikyrah: Because Rosenstein mentioned country of origin, some think it has to do with the dossier.
D58826
@rikyrah: Tape or no tape he has bragged about walking into the dressing room of the Miss Teenage pageant unannounced. Imagine if a D did that.
liberal
@Another Scott: Yeah, well, at least he voted against moving us towards war with Iran, which is more than you can say even about E. Warren.
D58826
@different-church-lady: Maybe he figures a disgruntled fan will 2nd amendment him
Quinerly
@D58826:
I try to be hopeful. Only way that I can take the daily onslaught. Can’t survive being angry all the time. Takes a toll.
liberal
@Weaselone:
Yawn. The problem isn’t a claimed interest in social justice issues. The problem is no interest in real economic reform (yes, of course they’re better than the Republicans). Let’s see when the party gets behind a transaction tax on Wall St. and getting rid of the preferential treatment of capital gains.
Baud
@liberal: What are you talking about?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Same thing with Ivanka’s “apprenticeship” shtick. I read some blurb yesterday about her and Trump holding forth in Wisconsin on “the dignity that comes with hard work.” There aren’t two people on the entire planet less qualified to lecture others on that topic. You’re right — such bald-faced hypocrisy breeds cynicism. How can it not?
@D58826: Steve M at No More Mr Nice Blog has a write-up about Nugent’s so-called change of heart. Basically, he’s a chickenshit. He’s allegedly contracting SEALs and Green Berets to provide security at his upcoming concerts because he’s afraid a deranged Bernie Bro is going to plug him mid-regurgitation of some dumbass song that was already stale by 1985.
D58826
Well look on the bright side, the more time he spends fretting over the probe, the less time he has to screw our medical coverage or start WWII. And making things worse is a good thing really
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/15/trump-russia-investigation-obsession-239614
Chris
@Patricia Kayden:
I was like ten at the time of the Lewinsky scandal. Which is how I remember one of my first political opinions being “who the fuck cares?”
Betty Cracker
@liberal:
Both were part of the 2016 Democratic Party platform.
D58826
@Betty Cracker:
Well I hope it doesn’t happen. The Bernie Bro should spend the money on buying ammo for something useful like a food bank.
rikyrah
@Quinerly:
Me too. I have not forgotten that Florida case.
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly: Caught the reference with the Ezekiel quote! Loved the scene where Julius explains he used that quote before popping a guy’s head off because it sounded good.
Betty Cracker
@D58826: Agreed. Nugent is a truly awful human being, but he should be free to play terrible music and spew hateful and/or stupid bullshit in peace. I’d rather see him fade into long-overdue irrelevance than become a martyr for the wingnut cause.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: No fair, Betty.
D58826
@Betty Cracker: I was listening to a couple of progressive guests on Chris Hayes last night. They were arguing that the reason the D’s lost in 2016 was it was a change election (maybe true) and people were looking for a progressive agenda rather than the status que offered by Hillary. Now the platform that Hillary ran on, the policy positions that she talked about were all progressive. Bernie could have run on most of them.
Now if the electorate voted against Hillary (at least in the EC) because they thought that the R’s AND Trump would offer up a positive change as opposed to Hillary they deserve what they get. But her e-mails and the fact that she was under FBI investigation drowned out the entire message. Funny how the only FBI investigations that have to remain secret are the ones affecting R’s.
Now in one sense the voters are getting the change they wanted. What they forgot was change can move in a positive direction or a negative one. And the change that the R’s have been pushing since 1980 is in the direction oft he 17th century.
Amir Khalid
@Cheryl Rofer:
Having been a cat’s subordinate human all these years, John Cole should be aware that it’s not his place to question Steve’s expectations. When Bianca wakes me up in the middle of the night because she wants to be let out of the bedroom, I don’t argue. I just do it.
Baud
@D58826: That doesn’t make sense since she won the popular vote and would have won the electoral college with Russian and Comey meddling.
Chyron HR
@Betty Cracker:
But Democrats only do progressive things because they’re politically popular, they don’t BELIEVE in them the way the senator from Vermont does.
Aleta
D58826
@Betty Cracker: Yep. he is the living walking face of the best political disinfectant to bad free speech is MORE good free speech.
Baud
@D58826: And calling it a change election when the GOP retained control of Congress seems strange.
Betty Cracker
@D58826: My take is that there were so many factors that contributed to the 2016 catastrophe that no one thing can be identified as the definitive cause. There was voter suppression. There was the fact that the Democrats had held the White House for eight years. There was sexism. There was the fact that Trump explicitly ran a white identity politics campaign in a time of heightened racial tensions. There was the 25-year character assassination campaign against Clinton. The unprecedented influence of a foreign power. The outrageous decision by Comey to insert himself into the race in the final days. I could go on.
But one thing that drives me nuts is the post-election finger-wagging about neo-liberalism dooming the party in 2016. The Democrats ran on the most progressive platform in party history in 2016. That’s just a goddamned fact. We can argue about strategies to get the message out more effectively, finding standard-bearers with more mavericky images, etc. — all worthy of discussion. But anyone who claims the 2016 party platform was a DLC product is either lying or misinformed.
D58826
@Baud: Well I agree that what they were saying didn’t make sense but they are PROGRESSIVES. What also wasn’t mentioned last night was that most of the candidates that Bernie has supported have lost, including the big loss in VA. last week. And at the moment the decidedly UN-Bernie in GA-06 looks like he might pull out a win.
I know I sound like a broken record on this, but most of the country is not waiting with baited breath for the Bernie Progressive train to pull into town. Outside of VT and maybe MA there are few places that Bernie could win a statewide election. It doesn’t mean that the country at large doesn’t support many of his ideas however illogical that may sound. You can probably sell an increase in the minimum wage in most of the country but just not wrapped in the banner of a liberal democrat or socialist. The opinion polls continue to show that even in red states the D’ platform ideas are very popular. But for some reason the party can’t find candidates that can sell those ideas in terms that a red stater will vote for. THat make sense?
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
One problem seems to have been that Clinton spent more time talking about Trump and blasting him with campaign commercials than anything else. It’s possible that people might have liked her better, if she had spent more time talking about her platform rather than her opponent.
ThresherK
@Baud: Well, considering the NeverTrumpers were R’s who wanted to be the first rat away from the ship, to look good for 2020, we got a compiant media who treated Trump like the Tea Party: Someone new and different, the aberration rather than the distillation, of the party whose ticket he ran on.
And if I had a dollar for every Wilmerite I heard echo Ted Cruz’ full-throated convention endorsement of
Trumpvoting yer conscience, I could spring for the next Juicers’ meetup.Baud
@D58826: All I ask for is real analysis, not personal political opinion dressed up as analysis. Objectively speaking, why is the progressive analysis more persuasive than the centrist analysis that the Dems lose because they moved too far to the left too quickly? Other than groupthink and personal preference, I don’t have an answer to that question.
D58826
@Betty Cracker: Yep it was a perfect storm. The analogy that I use is an airplane crash. Other than MH17 which was shot down or German air which was crashed into a hill side by the pilot, air crashes today are the result of a chain of events, often very small events. Pull one of those events out of the chain and the plane doesn’t crash. Change one ofthose negative factors to a positive one in 2016 and Hillary is POTUS
Morzer
@D58826:
Unfortunately, in large swathes of the country that’s been true for any and all Democrats you care to name over the last decade. I don’t think Bernie is the future, but I also don’t see much appetite among the yearning masses for whatever Clintonism might be either. If the Democrats are going to revive, they need something new and punchy that isn’t reducible to NOT TRUMP!
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
The Nooge faded into irrelevance as musician a long time ago. When did anyone last hear about him dropping a new song, let alone a new album? He’s only been in the news as a nasty right-wing kook. The guy he ripped off, Chuck Berry (God rest him), has a new album out.
O. Felix Culpa
I’m late to the morning thread as usual (Mountain Time plus catching up on all the comments = dead thread), but you will be SURPRISED to know that the Trump Administration and Sessions DOJ are quietly rolling back civil rights efforts.
Laura
@rikyrah: Underage girls have been his “THING” since forever.
In 1999, the younger roadie brother was tour managing a then 15 year old Christina Aguilera and she was booked to perform at Miss Universe in Branson. While in her trailer changing (not dressed), 2 Security Moes and the Donald approached and one Moe began explaining that Trump needed to go inside and meet her.
Brother’s bullshit meter engaged and demanded to know why an old man needed to be in the dressing room of a child while she was changing. A bit of back and forth until brother declared that he did give a fk what fkg Trump wanted and if they didn’t leave he was calling the cops to arrest the lot of them. The three scuttled away. Trump never said a word.
Shortly thereafter she performed at the Whitehouse Holiday party and brother had his picture taken with then FLOTUS Hillary Clinton.
It IS who Trump is -an entitled douchenozzle with a raging case of underage pussy fever.
Quinerly
OT: Funny story. I post a lot of container gardening pictures to the Book of Faces and another site. Tag friends asking if they want baby cactus, succulent clippings, other clippings to root. (Things are getting out of hand here.?) Very hearty sun coleus this year. I have typed “Comey” so much that now when I type “coleus” autocorrect changes it to “Comey” everytime. Gardening friends were wondering was “sun Comey’s” were. Yes, autocorrect is adding the apostrophe s. My morning smile. Taking it as a good sign.?
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
I will say this again….
The amount of voters denied the franchise due to voter suppression…
was at least 2-3 times the ‘ margin’ of victory in those states…..
Without the voter suppression…
Hillary would have won.
Period.
D58826
@Morzer: didn’t matter what she said.
1. E_MAILS
2. Trump speeches carried live and in their entirety because he was short on boring policy and long on a cage match.
3. Hillary’s speeches were shown in a cut and paste manner, and mostly the Trump parts, because the policy parts were ratings killers.
I’m not saying she was perfect but she still ran up 3 million more votes than Trump. She still received more votes than any previous white male candidate. In any other western democracy she would be living in the WH and the country would be treated to the hilarious sight of first dude Bill picking out china and floral arrangements for the state dinners. That would have been worth risking voter fraud and voting for Hillary twice on Nov. 8th.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: I may need to send Cole Rules for the Cat so he can put it up on his fridge:
WaterGirl
@Quinerly: That was my first thought, too. The underage girls part adds credibility to the story.
Chris
@Kay:
I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t have this mindset.
But her emals!!!
@Morzer:
Given that Clintonism is the the most progressive platform ever run on by a Democratic candidate, what do you think this would look like? As was demonstrated by the esteemed commenter Liberal above, people appear to object to Clintonism for not including what it actually does include or Hillary for not campaigning on things she actual campaigned on.
rikyrah
@O. Felix Culpa:
That’s the whole point of keeping Attorney General White Citizens Council.
Immanentize
@different-church-lady: Ozark H has made this point repeatedly. It is not only the far right that has guns.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@liberal: No puppet, no puppet. You’re the puppet
Chris
@Immanentize:
We’re Schrodinger’s liberals. Simultaneously weak-kneed limp-wristed effete pansies who would faint at the first sight of blood, and bloodthirsty mass-murdering street thug terrorists who are going to burn down the republic.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@Chris: War Is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength.
That phrase could describe the modern GOP platform to a T. Inherant contradictions and all.
Cognitive dissonance is a liebral concept
Immanentize
@Morzer: I don’t believe that is factually true. She talked about policies everywhere she went and had dozens of policy specific events. And, the ads I remember from her campaign were positive and policy based (some policy lite for sure). And in the debates she always tried to do policy first What notable anti-Trump ad did Hillary run?
Immanentize
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?: you forgot the current GOP budget motto:
“WORK WILL MAKE YOU FREE.”
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?:
The rise of the teabaggers eight years ago made me start reading about totalitarianism again (discovered Hannah Arendt during that time). Old Orwell is definitely as relevant as ever, especially the concept of doublethink which the entirety of movement conservatism embodies.
Tazj
Democrats will move on from Clinton, but I will not buy into Republican framing that Hillary and Democrats did not care about working people.I couldn’t get the link to work but I refer to an article from the Atlantic “the Dangerous Myth that Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class” by Derek Thompson on !2/9/16.
manyakitty
@Baud: Your answer is right there in your question. Hmmm…what could it be?
D58826
@Baud@Morzer: : I think we are talking about the ‘whatever happened to Kansas’ or Hillary’s deplorables problem.
I would like to think that most of the country is not hardcore racist/homophobic/etc. Those folks are not reachable in any imaginable D platform/policy agenda. The R’s have them locked up and are more than entitled to them. It is the other, and I hope larger, group of people that the D’s have to roach. The progressive purity pony has to be put out to pasture. The D’s have to pick candidates who can walk the walk and talk they talk of THEIR district, not Liz Warrens. They will break with party orthodoxy on occasion but they will help put Nancy back in the speakers chair. They are called blue dog democrats. Somehow the D’s have to convinced these folks that it is not 1950 and that Mayberry didn’t really exist even in 1950. African Americans and illegal Mexicans are not responsible for that company in Indiana moving to Mexico. It is corporate greed. Trans folks are not trying to sneak into the ladies room to take up skirt photos of their pre-teen daughters. The D’s have to have a message that tells these folks that their way of life is good and honorable but it is disappearing, not because of anything they did, but because the world is changing. The farm based world of the 1880’s changed to the industrial world of the 1900’s. Obviously the new jobs were still in the US and it was relatively easy to get home to see/support the family. The D’s have to come up with a way to help those who want to leave get the skills to compete in the new economy. AND, just as importantly, they have to find ways to help those who want to stay home live a good productive life. In spite of what some ‘experts’ say about following the jobs that isn’t easy or often practical. For The people in those WVA coal towns that is HOME. They may have family obligations to met that prevent them from leaving. And even if you retrained every last one and they were all willing to move – who will buy the houses. The home is the largest asset that most folks, in the hills of West Va. or the San Fernando valley of Calif. have. None of this is easy.
From personal experience I know. I have a 21st century skill – programmer. As the result of a bank merger it was the good news is you have a job but the bad news is it isn’t in Philly. Due to my wife’s heath issues, time vested in the bank, and the financial package it was no brainer to move to Charlotte. BUT Charlotte, nice as the city is, is NOT home. It is simply a high p[riced motel room. Home is the Phillies, the IGGLEs and rwal Philly cheese steaks.
D58826
@Immanentize: I agree but it doesn’t fit the narratives that Hillary was the worst possible candidate in all respects and she should now just go back into the woods and shut up. because we don’t have e-mails to talk about anymore
satby
@Immanentize: Well, it was brilliant that her best anti-Trump ad only showed kids watching tv as the soundtrack played parts of Trump’s most hateful rhetoric.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Apprenticeships that are partially or wholly federally funded are regulated by the federal government, thru the Dept of Labor. It’s important they be regulated because there have to be quality standards. “Apprenticeship” is just a word. It’s not like “MD”- it doesn’t mean anything without standards.
What Ivanka did was take them out of the Labor Dept and give the funding directly to the groups that manage or create apprenticeships. What will happen is the word won’t mean anything, and so the apprentice loses the value of the credential.
I told you they’d discredit apprenticeships, and they are. The whole point of the thing is employers don’t have to delve into details and judge quality. The standards ensure value. Without the standards it’s just a bullshit credential that may or may not have value. That matters because the APPRENTICE is investing years of his or her life in this- many of them are five years long.
This IS NOT the German model. It’s a low quality imitation of the German model, put together by a low quality nepotism hire.
You could weep, right? The people who earned NOTHING are creating programs for people who have to earn EVERYTHING and the result is predictable- cheap garbage.
D58826
@D58826: And just to add one more point, the D’s have to be able to consistently win the votes of the somewhat racists who voted for the black guy with the MOOSLIM sounding name. Or the somewhat sexist men who have voted for Liz or Tammy Duckworth. Or the still uncomfortable with gay marriage who voted for Tammy Baldwin in Wisc. And not to put to fine a point on it the progressive/Bernie supported Russ Feingold lost in 2016.
O. Felix Culpa
@rikyrah:
I know. Sigh. Shameful. To follow your lead: Purses lips.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@Kay: What the fuck business Does Ivanka have doing that? What’s her qualifications? This is all because Trump is too paranoid to hire anyone outside the family/Trump Organization
D58826
@Kay:
sound like what is being proposed is a different version of Trump U or the rip-off private colleges.
SFAW
And, for all you literati (or whatever):
Happy Bloomsday!
Introibo ad altare Dei, baby!
rikyrah
@Kay:
Keep on telling the truth, Kay.
Laura
@SFAW: yes, yes, YES!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@liberal:
This is rich. Only Wilmer of all of the Dems has the best interests of Obama’s Iran deal at heart – the same guy who wanted to primary him, erased him from all mention of great Democratic accomplishments, and used Cornel West to reach out to Obama’s coalition. You cultists shame pretzels with your logic.
O. Felix Culpa
@SFAW:
Celebrate by eating with relish the inner organs of beasts and fowl.
SFAW
@O. Felix Culpa:
What kind of relish? Peach? Mango? Beer? I normally use pickle relish on hot dogs, sometimes on turkey sandwiches..
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
you and i both know that the 2016 dem platform was…i dunno, something something oligarchy?
O. Felix Culpa
@SFAW:
How droll. :P
SFAW
@Laura:
Molly? Is that you?
SFAW
@O. Felix Culpa:
Hey someone has to make the stupid “jokes” around here.
Well, not really, I guess.
different-church-lady
@Aleta: approx. 3.976 million x .14 = approx 550,000. Consider that many of the 750, 000 who marched probably did not live in Los Angeles itself and you end up with numbers that are not as disparate as the prose would lead one to believe.
The problem isn’t that there was a falling off, or that people didn’t care about a local issue. The problem is how few people care in the first place.
J R in WV
@SFAW:
What kind of relish? … I normally use pickle relish on hot dogs,…
If you’re eating hot dogs (I do too!) you are certainly eating “inner organs of beasts and fowl!”
Uncle Cosmo
@D58826: Food banks accept donations of ammo now? Maybe they send volunteers with .22s out to local parks early in the morning to hunt squirrels for lunch? =;^p
Laura
@SFAW: YES!