Late Night Open Thread: W.A.S.F.

Or then again, we are so… fighting back?

61 replies
  1. 1
    Calouste says:

    Depends on how you define “survive a mad king”. Spain was the greatest power in the world in the 1600s, and a couple of inbred Habsburgs later they were a European backwater.

  2. 2
    NotMax says:

    History of the Custis-Lee Mansion and Arlington surroundings.

    The mansion, which was intended as a living memorial to George Washington, was owned and constructed by the first president’s adopted grandson, George Washington Parke Custis, son of John Parke Custis who himself was a child of Martha Washington by her first marriage and a ward of George Washington. The name “Arlington” won out over “Mount Washington,” which is what George Washington Parke Custis first intended calling the 1,100-acre tract of land that he had inherited at the death of his father when he was three years old. Arlington was the name of the Custis family ancestral estate in the Virginia tidewater area.
    [snip]
    Under the terms of her father’s will, Mary Anna Custis Lee was given the right to inhabit and control the house for the rest of her life. Custis’ will also stipulated that upon Mary Anna’s death, full title would pass to her eldest son, George Washington Custis Lee. Contrary to popular belief, Robert E. Lee never owned the Arlington estate. Lee did serve as custodian of the property, which had fallen into disrepair by the time he returned to execute his father-in-law’s will. By 1859, Lee had returned the property and its holdings to profitability and good order.
    [snip]
    The federal government confiscated the property when Mrs. Lee failed to pay, in person, taxes levied against Arlington estate. Offered for public sale on January 11, 1864, a tax commissioner purchased the property for “government use, for war, military, charitable and educational purposes.”

  3. 3
    Joe Falco says:

    Let’s just make America great again by kicking Trump out now instead of surviving him and waiting for greatness. That sounds like a better plan.

  4. 4
    Morzer says:

    @NotMax:

    You just know that the Trumpzis will read that summary of the mansion’s history and immediately say that this proves that the Confederacy was based on economically distressed white people rising up against Big Government. JUST LIKE TRUMP!

  5. 5

    @Morzer:

    economically distressed white people rising up against Big Government. JUST LIKE TRUMP!

    How can Trump be economically distressed? He’s said, “I’m really rich”.

  6. 6
    Morzer says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Well, that’s the tell. His voters have been telling the world that they are “Really nice people” for years. They know a lie about personal circumstances when they see one.

    Besides, how much coherence do you expect from a movement riddled with racists and Nazis that claims that the Democrats are the real racists?

  7. 7
    jl says:

    @Joe Falco: I agree, but your plan may be infeasible. But why not try, for the good of the country? I’m making a list of reasons why Trump should be impeached, convicted, and removed from office. List will be longer than I thought. Will send to my to Senators. Occurred to me that Trump must say out loud, in simple English that he will abide by NATO article 5. That is a real ratified treaty, and has force of law in the US. And any equivocation on our commitment to observing and enforcing that law of the land risks catastrophic consequences. So, any lawyers here let me know if I have that wrong. Anyway, the vile miserable and idiotic Trump must send a letter to congress explicitly pledging that he will enforce that law of the land, or out he goes.

    Some here may note that I have been a critic of NATO expansion and think NATO policy towards Russia needs to change. But that belief does not mean I think the US government should say and so stupid things. And of course, working to improve NATO is not the same thing as messing it up to please Uncle Vlad and Trump’s Russian mob sugar daddies.

    I guess it’s good that Trump is showing signs of complete incoherent dysfunction. I read he is tweeting that he wants to increase federal spending on health care. So, if he wants to throw a wrench into his flunkies’ plans to destroy our health system from basic research to the simplest doctor or clinic visit, fine. That kind of idiocy in domestic policy just means easier to stall their destruction plans. But similar idiocy in foreign policy will get lots of people killed and lives wrecked.

    Also, i found Trump’s Memorial day comments boorish, offensive and not in accord with democratic values. I didn’t even finish listening to his miserable speech. I walked to a local observance, and gritted my teeth through it, with unsettled thoughts.

  8. 8
    Morzer says:

    @jl:

    I’m making a list of reasons why Trump should be impeached, convicted, and removed from office.

    At this point, it might be quicker to copy War and Peace out by hand.

  9. 9
    seaboogie says:

    This revolution is going to get really ugly – I just hope that we have and can sustain the energy needed for it…GOP is beyond shameless now…

  10. 10
    jl says:

    @Morzer: I’m using a word processor.

    Anyway, if you hear DiFi call for Trump’s impeachment, it worked and you are all welcome.

  11. 11
    Morzer says:

    @seaboogie:

    I think the GOP is increasingly a violent apartheid cult and proud of it. I don’t see how it ends well, given the spineless incompetence that the Democratic leadership have to offer.

  12. 12
    NotMax says:

    @Morzer

    Follow-up, wherein the SCOTUS ruled in the Lee family’s favor.

    United States v. Lee, 106 U.S. 196 (1882), is a 5-to-4 ruling by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Constitution’s prohibition on lawsuits against the federal government did not extend to officers of the government themselves. The case involved the heir of Mary Anna Custis Lee, wife of Confederate States of America General Robert E. Lee, who sued to regain control of Arlington House and its grounds. Arlington had been seized by the United States government in 1861 and eventually converted into Arlington National Cemetery. The estate had been sold to pay outstanding taxes, but the lawsuit contested the tax sale as improper. A jury found in favor of the Lees. The Supreme Court, too, concluded that the tax sale was illegal. In stripping the federal officers of their sovereign immunity, the Supreme Court agreed that suit against them was proper.

    The jury verdict returned Arlington to the Lee family, but only temporarily. The family never returned to Arlington, but rather sold the estate to the United States government in 1883 for $150,000 ($3,855,536 in 2016 dollars) .
    [snip]
    The U.S. government faced the daunting prospect of having to disinter 17,000 bodies and transfer Arlington back to the Lee family. Additionally, much of the estate had been developed into the new Army post of Fort Myer. After several months of difficult negotiations, Lee and the government settled on a sale price&#8230. Congress enacted legislation funding the purchase on March 3, 1883; Lee signed over the title on March 31; and the title transfer was recorded on May 14, 1883.Source

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    As it is Dolt 45, wouldn’t a turd processor be more apropos?

    ;)

  14. 14
    scav says:

    Can you imagine the get-up he would have worn for that event if he was aware it was originally called Decoration Day? Let alone what the daughter’s web-site would have flogged as proper champagne popsicles sucking, necessarily trademarked, attire.

  15. 15
    Aleta says:

    Though current and former Americans said it was unlikely that Mr. Gorkov is an active member of Russian intelligence, they said his past ties to the security services in Moscow were a reason he was put in charge of the bank.

    That’s the NYT, which assumes that “current and former Americans” is enough information for us to trust that it’s “unlikely that Mr. Gorkov is an active member of Russian intelligence.” Because the NYT says so. Except they’ve destroyed their credibility.

  16. 16
    efgoldman says:

    @jl:

    That is a real ratified treaty, and has force of law in the US. And any equivocation on our commitment to observing and enforcing that law of the land risks catastrophic consequences.

    So are the Geneva conventions, which include the prohibition of torture.
    Why look! There goes W; there goes Darth! There goes Rummy!!! They must all be on the way to prison.
    Wait, what?? They’re free as birdies?
    Well, damn.

  17. 17
    Aleta says:

    @NotMax: I wonder if the family had to pay the back taxes out of the sale price? Or did the Court find the tax sale improper because they didn’t owe any taxes?

  18. 18
    jl says:

    @efgoldman: Thanks. I will add a footnote about the unfinished business re Dick, Dub, and Rum. But we don’t have to impeach them. Just extradite to The Hague.

  19. 19
    amk says:

    patriotism is the first refuge of scoundrels. and moles.

  20. 20
    efgoldman says:

    @jl:

    I will add a footnote and unfinished business re Dick, Dub, and Rum.

    Waste ye notte ye typinge fingers and pixels.
    Yon skowe has left ye transfere statione.

  21. 21
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Morzer: That’s my take as well. They have the potential to establish a defacto one party state like Russia. Look up electoral authoritarianism

  22. 22
    JerryRich says:

    I was looking for a chance to slip in a factoid about Caligula, 3rd Emperor of the Roman Empire. His reign lasted less than four years (18 March AD 37 – 24 January AD 41) before he was assassinated as a result of a conspiracy by officers of the Praetorian Guard, senators, and courtiers. I doubt that the reign of He, Trump will last even that long.

  23. 23
    Morzer says:

    @efgoldman:

    *cough* Thee, thou and hath do make much garboil against thee.

  24. 24
    Morzer says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    In a substantial part of the country, they already have established a one party state – and they’ve used all the tools of tyranny to do it.

  25. 25
    jl says:

    @efgoldman: I overlooked your cynicism, as a gesture of goodwill. Which I suspected would be in vain.

  26. 26
    Suzanne says:

    @Morzer:

    the spineless incompetence that the Democratic leadership have to offer.

    Truth. The left’s inability to unite around the most basic positions, such as SHITGIBBON IZ BAD LETZ NOT DO DAT, is just staggering.

    We should take every goddamn dime of corporate money offered and run candidates in every race, for every county dogcatcher, and just obliterate the GOP. We should demoralize every GOP voter until they don’t even want to leave the house to go get the mail, never mind vote or volunteer. We need to be as ruthless as the other side. We should not commit any crimes, but if the norms are gone, then the norms are gone. Winners make policy and losers go home, and too many people that we unfortunately need in our coalition keep forgetting that. Berniebots, I’m looking at you. Susan Sarandon, I’m giving you the stinkeye.

  27. 27
    jl says:

    @JerryRich: Did his favorite horse join in?

  28. 28
    Morzer says:

    @jl:

    EFG is famous for rolling around in a tub and carrying a lamp in broad daylight.

  29. 29
    Morzer says:

    @Suzanne:

    Spare a thought for Cory Booker who is currently snuggling up to mega-donor Jared Kushner and deploring talk of such unseemly things as treason and back-channels to the Kremlin.

  30. 30
    BBA says:

    @efgoldman: I think extraordinary, extralegal renditions a la Eichmann are in order for them. It might set a bad precedent, but so does letting them go free.

  31. 31
    efgoldman says:

    @jl:

    I overlooked your cynicism

    What you call cynicsm, i call reality. The sins of all three are well known, but the books were closed after some lower level guards were screwed. The train really has left the station on those particular actions.
    Fuck, in a just world John Yoo would have been prosecuted and disbarred instead of landing a tenured job at a prestige law school, and Bybee either never would have been confirmed as a judge, or impeached and removed.
    It is time to deal with present evil.

  32. 32
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Morzer: I read about a GOP pol from Oregon talking about potentially hiring RW militias like the Oath Keepers as private security for GOP pols. Because some people view the modern GOP like NSDAP. No sense of self-awareness at all. It was in response to the Portland stabbings.

    Even if that guy was mentally ill, he was clearly influenced by RE, white nationalist rhetoric

  33. 33
    efgoldman says:

    @Morzer:

    EFG is famous for rolling around in a tub

    I’m not famous for anything.

  34. 34
    Morzer says:

    @JerryRich:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Chaerea

    Chaerea was disturbed by the increasingly unbalanced emperor, and angered at Caligula’s mocking of his voice and of his supposed or real effeminacy. Suetonius reported that whenever Caligula had Chaerea kiss his ring, Caligula would “hold out his hand to kiss, forming and moving it in an obscene fashion”. Chaerea was also made to use degrading watch-words at night, including “Venus” (slang for a male eunuch) and “Priapus” (erection).Unable to bear this deliberate provocation any longer, Chaerea planned to assassinate Caligula during the Palatine games held in January, 41.

    In Trump’s White House, aides serve a president who demands absolute loyalty — but who doesn’t always offer it in return. Trump prefers a management style in which even compliments can come laced with a bite, and where enduring snubs and belittling jokes, even in public, is part of the job.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/snubs-and-slights-are-part-of-the-job-in-trumps-white-house/2017/05/29/f5c9d5c0-417a-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html

  35. 35
    Suzanne says:

    @Morzer: Fuck that guy. Fuck Booker and his shady ass-kissing.

    And yet, if he is the Dem nominee in 2020, I will vote for him SO HARD. Because I like winning in a compromised fashion more than I like losing righteously.

  36. 36
    JerryRich says:

    @jl:

    Did his favorite horse join in?

    It was rumored that Incitatus (his name is a Latin adjective meaning “swift” or “at full gallop”) was used as a getaway horse.

  37. 37
    Morzer says:

    @efgoldman:

    EFGOLDMAN ROLLS AROUND IN A TUB! TWICE ON SUNDAYS!

    See, EFG, fame is yours at last!

  38. 38
    Morzer says:

    @Suzanne:

    “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.”

    – Winston Churchill

  39. 39
    Morzer says:

    http://www.eschatonblog.com/20.....eople.html

    We don’t live in a “show your papers” society. Nobody carries their passport around with them. Driver’s license, sure, but that’s not proof of citizenship to the Feds. ICE detains people because they’re brown, and then laughably asserts that they wouldn’t do so if people had evidence of their citizenship. I bet half the country would have a hard time producing clear evidence of citizenship, and 99.9% couldn’t do it on the spot.

    It’s a fascist, racist organization dedicated to terrorizing brown people.

    Sums up ICE perfectly for all time.

  40. 40
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    U.S. is not a state party to the International Criminal Court in The Hague (but does maintain observer status). Bill Clinton signed the Rome Statute but never submitted it to the Senate for ratification, nor has any president since.

  41. 41
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Morzer: I like to read timeline threads on alternatehistory.com. I feel as I’m living in Rumsfeldia

  42. 42
    JerryRich says:

    @Morzer: It looks like we can spend our few remaining days arguing whether the Trump regime most resembles the real-life Roman Empire or Westeros in Game of Thrones (fictional, but obviously based on many different real and imaginary kingdoms).

  43. 43
    JerryRich says:

    @Morzer: It is sobering to think that a person as young as Trevor Noah (31 YO) remembers living under apartheid. This means that the methods to implement internal passports are also remembered.

  44. 44
    NotMax says:

    @JerryRich

    One doesn’t have to gaze very far back at all to the likes of Idi Amin or the Duvaliers.

    (Amin, among many other much worse things, rabble-roused by announcing and repeating that the British were planning a naval invasion of Uganda, any day now. When someone finally pointed out to him that it is a land-locked country, he replied along the lines of “Just goes to show how stupid the British are.”)

  45. 45
    NotMax says:

    @NotMax

    Or, for that matter, Alfredo Stroessner.

  46. 46
    Mary G says:

    I swear these people are idiots. Trump’s DHS started their “VOICE” database for victims of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants, but they included all kinds of personal information on the victims as well, which is illegal. Mother Jones story:

    Shortly after the office launched, the Los Angeles Times reported that it was able to find the information of children as young as three years old in the VINE database.

    Unfuckingblievable.

  47. 47

    @Morzer: The wife and kid are planning a visit to Korea next year so they have to renew their passports. I suggested they also get a passport card. Our Republican friend questioned the need for this since they’re both citizens and could just show their driver’s license. I pointed out to him that since they’re POC they might be more visible to ICE. Not only isn’t a driver’s license proof of citizenship, in California undocumented immigrants can get a CDL(that’s a good thing since they have to show proficiency and insurance).

  48. 48
    Morzer says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    I hope Trump doesn’t pursue his interest in the Koreas. God only knows that there’s no problem that can’t be worsened by his ugly orange snout being stuck into it. I really do dislike living in such interesting times.

  49. 49
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    So are the Geneva conventions, which include the prohibition of torture.
    Why look! There goes W; there goes Darth! There goes Rummy!!! They must all be on the way to prison.
    Wait, what?? They’re free as birdies?

    Which is why I argued for their heads on pikes.

    Maybe if we’d done that, Trump would have had second thoughts about running.

  50. 50
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mary G:

    Unfuckingblievable.

    Perfectly believable.

    Feature, not a bug.

    If they can’t do it legally, they’ll damn well do it illegally.

    After all, whatcha gonna do about it?

  51. 51
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    Fuck, in a just world John Yoo would have been prosecuted and disbarred instead of landing a tenured job at a prestige law school, and Bybee either never would have been confirmed as a judge, or impeached and removed.
    It is time to deal with present evil.

    Kill em all and let their deity of choice figure it out.

    /TenguPhule +1, satire

  52. 52
    Calouste says:

    @Morzer: Green card holders are required to carry their card at all times.

  53. 53
    Origuy says:

    @JerryRich: Russian citizens are still required to have internal passports, although they are being replaced with identity cards. They aren’t required for as many things as they were in Soviet days, but people still have to have them. I think you need them to get
    an apartment or a job. I’m not sure about internal travel.

  54. 54
    Origuy says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Your Republican friend is an idiot (but I repeat myself). American citizens need passports to travel outside the USA, even to Canada or Mexico. The passport card is fine for Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean, but to go anywhere else you need the full passport.

  55. 55
    Cookie monster says:

    @Calouste: technically true, but in my expedience, very few do, due to the cost and hassle of replacing the green card if you lose it. (I’m a former green card holder, and I know quite a few people who still are).

  56. 56
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Calouste: you think Melania carried her green card at all times?

    you think Trump’s scottish mother carried her green card at all times?

  57. 57
    sm*t cl*de says:

    I’m surprised Trump bothered to attend. Doesn’t he despise personnel who get killed even more than he despises ones who are captured?

  58. 58
    Morzer says:

    https://angrystaffofficer.com/2017/05/29/how-i-lost-at-patriotism-and-how-we-all-lose/

    The next speaker then walked up to the podium: a Vietnam veteran who had served in the Marine Corps. This was made abundantly clear by the dress blues he was wearing – as well as his high and tight haircut and R. Lee Ermey style of speaking. With white-gloved knife hands, he pointed to the red stripe on his trousers and barked, “Red. The color of blood. The blood of patriots. Because to be a patriot is to shed blood. And only those who have shed blood, as I have, know what true patriotism is. And the blood that is shed is sacred. This country is sacred. This is the greatest nation in the world and I will not hear a word against it.”

    Patriotism. What is it? Is it, as the veteran said, the purview of only those who have sacrificed their blood on the battlefield? Or is it something more, something far more egalitarian?

    Read the whole thing and think what the likely outcome is of a patriotism based on shed blood and an utter absence of critical thought about the nature and situation of one’s country.

  59. 59
    Paul in KY says:

    @JerryRich: Problem is the Praetorian Guard, etc. had more honor & concern for their country than the current Republicans in office.

  60. 60
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Morzer:

    This is what the cops do to brown people in Russia. Show your passport.

  61. 61
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Morzer:

    And only those who have shed blood, as I have, know what true patriotism is.

    Wait, what, the tedious gobshite is a self-cutter?

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