— JoeMyGod (@JoeMyGod) May 24, 2017
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Old Esquire tag line: Why is this man smiling?
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I'm already sick of all the winning. https://t.co/jaJA9ZuPCB pic.twitter.com/vzZtXFLOuA
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) May 24, 2017
"The Aristocrats!" pic.twitter.com/SpvIeVdGjp
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) May 24, 2017
Baud
The face of a pope who has realized that God doesn’t exist.
Gravenstone
So blaring CNN hed is that Sessions (R-racist scum) failed to note a meeting with Russians on his security clearance application. Oops!
Betty Cracker
@Gravenstone: As did Jared. Isn’t it weird that they keep forgetting to mention meetings with Russian government officials? An oddly specific form of amnesia. ?
JPL
@Gravenstone: It won’t matter. Sad but true.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
does anyone know why people are tweeting about whether or not we should feel sorry for Sean Spicer’s latest humiliation? Is he being humiliated in more than the usual way?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Why the fuck is Ivanka wearing a little-girl dress-up wedding veil IN BLACK? Is she auditioning for a remake of The Nightmare Before Christmas?
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Seems like everybody in the WH was pretty casual about their SF-86.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: I couldn’t tell from the article whether the amnesia in this case was specific to Russia.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He didn’t get to meet the Pope, and he’s an actual Catholic. ☹️
dr. bloor
@Baud: …and that Satan does.
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He didn’t get to meet the Pope, and he’s apparently a practicing Catholic.
mai naem mobile
I know this is mean but Ivanka looks like the wife in the American Gothic painting and Melanoma looks like a photo of one of those Eastern European women during WWII after their village has been destroyed and they’re starving,waiting in line for food rations.
Baud
@dr. bloor: Baud!/Satan! 2020!: Better than Trump/Pence!
Gin & Tonic
Two-handed Betty types faster than one-handed Gin & Tonic.
Gelfling 545
The female contingent in that photo look like the chief mourners at a funeral sometime late in the reign of Queen Victoria. What are they got up as?
craigie
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
Why is she even there?
dr. bloor
@Baud: Certainly more charismatic. So what’s Old Scratch willing to deliver for my vote?
Gin & Tonic
@mai naem mobile: I know you mean well, but you could only write that about Melania if you haven’t seen the actual photos you’re trying to compare her to.
Elizabelle
Seen on the internet: above photo (unsmiling pope and 3 Trumps) cropped to just Trump and Melania in the black get-up: Caption:
mai naem mobile
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I do feel sorry for him. This is just plain petty meanness on Dolt’s part. Really mean. It reflects really poorly on Dolt’s management and parenting style.
Miss Bianca
OK, starting with that “Aristocrats” crack all the way down the comment thread so far, I have now had to stop eating my dinner at my desk for fear I might choke. THANKS, OBAMA (AND BAUD!)!
Iowa Old Lady
@craigie: My very question
Baud
@dr. bloor: Good question. What did the Russian give to Flynn to get him to betray his country?
Elizabelle
@Gelfling 545: I think the wimmens look like they wanna be in a Goya portrait.
JPL
Melania’s hand, the one close to Trump is not quite clenched, but close enough. haha
JPL
@Baud: sex
JPL
Where’s Tom Levinson? I want to know about the painting they are posing in front of.
MisterForkbeard
Off-topic, but: I just got into an argument with an idiot on Reddit over the whole Seth Rich thing. The guy kept trying to prove that the family spokesman actually worked for the DNC, which was supposed to be a slam dunk that the DNC killed Seth Rich. After I showed (using the guy’s own articles) that the spokesman didn’t work for the DNC, he started telling me that the spokesman worked with David Brock on a board for another left-leaning group. And insisted that Media Matters obviously knew this whole thing was a murder and a coverup because otherwise why would they possibly attack Sean Hannity?
I give up. These people are fucking idiots. After I asked to stop the argument because I didn’t think we’d convince each other of anything, he said “You’re right – you’ll never change your mind because you’ll never take off your Democratic blinders and think about your blind loyalty. Try to do it long enough to be skeptical.”
If it wasn’t so sad, I’d be laughing hard right now. Instead, it makes me want to drink. >_<
Emma
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: That’s what most of Catholic Europe is asking itself. Also why Melania couldn’t find a decent mantilla instead of an oversize hankie but that’s really not so bad.
mouse tolliver
@Gin & Tonic:
With all that practice, you’d think that he’d be good at it by now. ::bah-dum-bum::
Teddys Person
Here’s what I don’t get. The Trump women didn’t cover their heads in Saudi Arabia but did in the Vatican. Is there a reason they are will to go along with one “custom” (for lack of a better word) and not the other?
Baud
@JPL: Huh.
Well, whatever it takes to get dr. bloor’s vote….
phantomist
What about the boys.
Lurch and Pugsley didn’t get invited?
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Oh my God, all threads are won forever and forever after.
JPL
@Baud: Silly, It’s what the Russians gave Flynn to flip.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
DOJ openly leaking against Sessions. Tells you what they think of him.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: Yeah, they are immune to information.
wormtown
@Teddys Person: trying to score points with conservative Catholics?
Baud
@JPL: You think bloor wants more or less than Flynn?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
ms_canadada
The Devil’s Brides
Emma
@Teddys Person: Yes. It’s been beaten to death but I’ll give it another walk. When you visit a Muslim country, it is a country, and you are expected to behave properly but not necessarily to assume their clothing. For example a woman would be expected to wear a head covering when entering a mosque or religious site but not at other times. When you make an official visit to the Vatican it is traditional that the wives of heads of state wear black and cover their heads. A head of government (Angela Markel), the head of another religion (Queen Elizabeth), and the Queens of non-Christian countries (Queen Rania) please themselves. This Pope is rather less starched than his predecessors so I don’t think he much cares.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Revenge. Plus some money. But I’m betting his main motivation was a desire to get back at Obama.
sharl
(Apologies…to the dog.)
feebog
Everybody in that last picture except Dolt 45 looks like they just ate a bad burrito.
MisterForkbeard
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: To be fair, there’s could be some confirmation bias here. We’re actually looking specifically for more omitted Russian connections. If we started looking for… I don’t know, omitted Chinese connections we might find those too.
@Baud: I’m serious about how depressing that is. I don’t know what to do about it. Engaging in good faith doesn’t work, so… what else? You can’t really marginalize them because they’ve got their own community and media of crazy people.
Roger Moore
@Teddys Person:
Following the custom is a sign of respect. You can work the rest out for yourself.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Teddys Person:
Long version: Saudi requirement for women to cover is explicitly tied to their subjugation of women and to notions that women as women are shameful and sexually provocative, while covering at the Vatican is just location-specific respect for a (Christian) holy place, and it’s easier to understand and justify such respect within one’s own cultural and religious context than in a foreign one.
Short version: “Those nasty old men aren’t going to tell us what to wear” vs. “Ooooh, we get to play dress-up!”
Shell
The caption that should be under the Pope, “Shoot me now.”
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: You can and must marginalize them. There is no other way. Power is the only thing they can comprehend.
? Martin
@Baud:
Power, most likely. Russia is like the inverse of Room 101 – they figure out what you most want – power, sex, money, respect, etc. and deliver that in exchange for what they want. Even if we assume the most charitable case for Flynn, that he was nothing other than the greatest of patriots, Russia could have promised him increased support for defeating ISIS in exchange for help lifting sanctions. He could have seen that as a true service to the nation, while gaining little personally from it.
In the private sector that’s called cutting a good deal. In the public sector it’s called treason if you aren’t authorized to act in that capacity. If you want to know why Trump will continue to fall ass-first into this problem, he not only fails to understand the role of a public servant, he is predisposed to the lure of a good deal and promises it will make him look good. He’s the greatest mark the US has ever offered up to the Russians – by a mile.
sm*t cl*de
@JPL:
Resurrection of Christ — Pietro Perugino.
different-church-lady
@feebog: Which is ironic, because Trump is the most likely of all of them to have actually done so.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I don’t really have a good way to do that other than be completely dismissive, but I’ll work at it.
Corner Stone
Tweety is more than a little incensed this evening. It is kind of amusing.
Bokonon
@MisterForkbeard:
That’s because the right wingers are projecting, and they think that “progressives” are a complex, interlocking, sinister set of individuals and organizations, capable of foisting complicated conspiracies and false flags on the American public through their various tentacles, and that they perpetually on the attack. You know … set up and coordinated like the conservative movement actually is.
Plus, conspiracy theories are a great way to avoid ever having to admit you were wrong (or say “sorry”).
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: Dismissiveness is good. It’s all about dominance.
sharl
Things are gettin’ rough and weird in Montana:
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Pity. I bet it would have softened Francis a bit to have an actual Catholic in the group.
GregB
The fascists are getting really fascisty.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@JPL: It appears to be in a private papal reception room at the Vatican – I found it in this article but can’t see it clearly enough to identify yet.
ETA: Bingo. Resurrection of Christ by Perugino.
debbie
@sm*t cl*de:
Hmm, the tones of the painting are greener in the Trump shot than in the Obama shot. It too must have been sickened by the situation.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Emma: That oversize hankie is still better than Ivanka’s black wedding veil. I don’t know enough about customs in her homeland to speculate if it’s reasonably close to what one would normally wear in church there.
@Teddys Person: If it were me deciding whether to wear a head covering or not, I’d say that the difference is the secular vs religious nature of the surroundings. A head covering isn’t expected of foreign women in the secular parts of Saudi Arabia, but if I were meeting a prominent cleric there, I would at least ask about wearing something out of respect.
MisterForkbeard
@sharl: Wow. But then, I’m unsure if “Republican congressman tries to beat up reporter” is a negative for conservatives.
different-church-lady
@MisterForkbeard:
I thinks I sees the problem…
SRW1
Ivanka and Melania look like they are about to be locked away in a nunnery of which they are totally nonplussed. While Trump seems to be mighty relieved about that elegant solution.
MisterForkbeard
@different-church-lady: Yeah. I got pulled into something on a /r/news thread. Reddit in general is infested with racist/sexist/trumpist assholes, but the more general and useful subreddits get a lot more of them.
sharl
@MisterForkbeard:
Yep. After posting that, I started wondering whether that would actually help bring out more of certain types of GOP voters for Gianforte.
weaselone
@MisterForkbeard:
They’re nutters and there’s no real point in speaking with them about things like this unless you just want to troll them.
1. Seth Rich was essentially a data analyst, he wasn’t in the position to have access to and leak the contents of DNC emails.
2. He was about to go work for the Clinton campaign just before his death, something that seems incongruous with the DNC and Clinton campaign deciding to off him.
3. There’s nothing about his death that is inconsistent with this being a failed robbery attempt.
SiubhanDuinne
The other thing that’s weird about the Vatican photos is not just that the Pope is hardly smiling (which he usually does genuinely and readily), but that Trump is smiling and he almost never smiles! Most photos of him, he is pouting or scowling or grimacing — sometimes he’ll flash a quick phony grin for a second and then revert to frowny-face — but there’s rarely an authentic, happy-looking smile.
Opposite World, I am in you.
Immanentize
@mai naem mobile:
My guess, and perhaps why the Pappa was so solicitous of Melania, is that she was raised Catholic in Slovenia and that this was a VERY big deal for her. What I see in her face is awe and humility.
I also like to think she is pondering her confession in the afternoon and her re-send of Catholic identity.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@sm*t cl*de: Yer quick!
Corner Stone
@sharl: I don’t know about MT, but maybe that won’t really play well?
MisterForkbeard
@weaselone: I’ve cited all of these points to various people on the internet. Basically, you’re ignored.
#2 especially. “Seth Rich was a HERO who was going to go work for Clinton to get additional damaging information, of course! He didn’t know he’d been made!” and so forth and so on.
Steve in the ATL
@MisterForkbeard:
Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required.
sanjeevs
Not sure if this is getting traction in the US but this is the lead in the Financial Times today
Patricia Kayden
The contrast between the Pope and President Obama versus the Pope and Trump is beyond hilarious. But as usual Trump is oblivious to the fact that many people find his very presence revolting. Hence his clueless smile as the Pope’s eyes seek help.
Baud
@sanjeevs: Betty just put up a thread.
Iowa Old Lady
@sharl: Apparently Jacobs reported the incident to the police, so we’ll see how that all shakes out.
sharl
@Corner Stone: I don’t know about Montana either, and in a non-insane world, it shouldn’t play well.
I guess we’ll find out, shortly after any available audio or video get local airplay.
different-church-lady
@MisterForkbeard: You remember that aphorism that ends with “…and the pig enjoys it”?
Cheryl from Maryland
@Elizabelle: So right!! You mean this Goya Portrait? Or perhaps this one?
Corner Stone
Molly Ball has gotten orders of magnitude worse over the last few weeks. Brutal.
Patricia Kayden
@sanjeevs: If Trump sharing confidential information with Russia wasn’t a hint, I’m sure this latest leak will convince Europeans as a whole to keep mum while Trump is in office. Not good.
Gravenstone
@MisterForkbeard: I once got told to “take off my donkey colored glasses” after informing one of our local wingnuts about the tried and true pattern of Republicans in office breaking shit, and Democrats having to come in behind them to clean things up. Lather, rinse, repeat. Those sorts live in their own very special world.
Same clown in another argument claimed he could show me all sorts of proof to support his idiocy, but I’d never believe it because I’d belittle the sources. I left him with the retort that epistemic closure is one hell of a drug, and cut off communication.
ruemara
@MisterForkbeard: I woulda said, “That’s great projection. Your last name must be IMAX. Have a good one.” I don’t bother with these fools on the internet. Instead, that energy can be put into destroying their candidates and party via phonebanking or some other work.
They’re all crazy.
Bokonon
About Dan Drezner’s “The Aristocrats!” crack about that photo –
I am proud to say Dan was a friend of mine in college, and his sense of humor hasn’t changed a bit.
MisterForkbeard
@ruemara: I just finished up with “Right back atcha.” when he told me to start being skeptical and start wondering who was lying to me. I didn’t have the energy for more than that. :/
Thoughtful David
@Patricia Kayden: I find it hard to imagine that any intelligence agency or diplomat or head of state that has to do with the US hadn’t already figured out that any word they say will end up leaked to the Russians or the public within hours if not minutes. Yet, here the Brits go, saying they passed actual info along to the US. Fools.
SiubhanDuinne
@Thoughtful David:
Do you suppose any of the other heads of government at either the NATO or G7 meetings will take advantage of the private meetings and give him some home truths? Not that he’d be likely to pay attention, but it might make May, Merkel, Macron and the rest feel they had done what they could.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Thread won.
TenguPhule
@dr. bloor:
The Church of Satan has already disclaimed any responsibility for Donald Trump.
CindyH
@Baud: Thanks for the best laugh I’ve had in … forever
Elizabelle
@Baud:
Oh Baud. That’s a greatest hit. Well done, jackal.
The Pale Scot
@mai naem mobile:
They decided to watch Godfather prt 2 before the meeting.
They think they’re in 1950’s Sicily.
satby
@Baud: @Elizabelle: this is why we all love Baud!
Anne Laurie
Re: fashion choices — In pre-Vatican-II protocol (i.e., up till about 1963), women were required to wear black and cover their heads when meeting His Holiness. The rules haven’t explicitly changed, that I know of, but most pontiffs — certainly this one — have chosen not to be nitpickers on the topic. So you could assume this was just diplomatic, or you could (like some internet liberal Catholics) assume this was Trump’s entourage being ‘more Catholic than the Pope’ as snark.
The thing Ivanka’s wearing on her head is technically, I think, a ‘fascinator’; there’s a little beanie under the veil. She probably had it in her wardrobe, because even her extremely-unorthodox version of Orthodox Judaism presumably requires married women to cover their heads for the most formal religious events.
Melania’s wearing the same kind of tablecloth-lace mantilla women in my mother’s generation used to keep stuffed in their purses, back in the days when women had to cover their heads in church, since one never knew when there’d be a call to pop into St. Dymphna’s for a quick novena. My assumption was that there are probably still street vendors all over Vatican city hawking them as ‘souvenirs’ to tourists overcome with a sudden burst of vintage-y ‘reverence’… and that Melania, who I don’t remember ever seeing in a hat, told some minion Fine, whatevs, just pick me up something cheap that won’t spoil my hairdo. Although she *might*, as more generous souls have speculated, actually been stricken with nostalgia for her Catholic (?) girlhood.
Captain C
@Bokonon: WUFO?