Open Thread: In the Grand Tradition of Friday News Dumps…

The President-Asterisk won’t be asking for political asylum while he’s in Saudi Arabia, because he’s not competent enough to understand that this whole ‘Russiagate’ thing might be too big for him to skate away from. Wouldn’t come as a real surprise if one or more of Lord Smallgloves’ inner circle dropped out of sight during the travelling circus, though…

The law enforcement investigation into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign has identified a current White House official as a significant person of interest, showing that the probe is reaching into the highest levels of government, according to people familiar with the matter.

The senior White House adviser under scrutiny by investigators is someone close to the president, according to these people, who would not further identify the official.

The revelation comes as the investigation also appears to be entering a more overtly active phase, with investigators shifting from work that has remained largely hidden from the public to conducting interviews and using a grand jury to issue subpoenas. The intensity of the probe is expected to accelerate in the coming weeks, the people said.

The sources emphasized that investigators remain keenly interested in people who previously wielded influence in the Trump campaign and administration but are no longer part of it, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

Flynn resigned in February after disclosures that he had lied to administration officials about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. Current administration officials who have acknowledged contacts with Russian officials include President Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, as well as Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson…

Although the case began quietly last July as an effort to determine whether any Trump associates coordinated with Russian operatives to meddle in the presidential election campaign, the investigative work now being done by the FBI also includes determining whether any financial crimes were committed by people close to the president. The people familiar with the matter said the probe has sharpened into something more fraught for the White House, the FBI and the Justice Department — particularly because of the public steps investigators know they now need to take, the people said…

Much more at the link. Fire up the popcorn machine?

392 replies
  1. 1
    satby says:

    I’m starting to get the tiniest sliver of hope he’ll be removed from office sooner than 2018.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2
    wvng says:

    My popcorn machine has been running continuously for a month now, and I’m loaded up on popcorn futures.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    I kinda hope Kushner gets in trouble. That’d make holidays at the Trumps extra fun.

    ReplyReply
  4. 4
    wvng says:

    @satby: I think he will up and quit.

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    I think the three possibilities they mention here are good – Jared, Tillerson, and Sessions. I’m betting Kushner, but I’d be happy if it were Sessions, too.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    Roger Moore says:

    A White House official close to Trump is now a person of interest in Russia probe

    A person so close that he wears the same bad suits and sleeps in the same bed?

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    Mary G says:

    I am getting sick of popcorn, but enjoying this administration’s god-awfulness very, very much. Looking forward to the trip; nothing more likely to have a melt-down but a toddler who’s jet-lagged.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    Roger Moore says:

    @The Fat Kate Middleton:
    Once the investigation really gets going, I expect that all three will be persons of interest.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @wvng: I pray for that – but I don’t thin the Manbaby is capable of doing it.

    ReplyReply
  10. 10
    🌷 Martin says:

    California Senate passed a bill that makes it illegal for pharmaceutical companies to give gifts and incentives to medical professionals. I would expect this to get signed into law.

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    chopper says:

    i gotta say in terms of politics this week was pretty tight.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12
    randy khan says:

    If I get to choose which one, I want it to be Sessions. FWIW, I think the odds are that it’s not Tillerson, as he wasn’t part of Trumpland before the election.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    Patricia Kayden says:

    The plot thickens. Every day is a new revelation of scandalous proportions. This cannot go on for 4 years. After awhile, even ardent Trump supporters are going to get tired of all this “winning”. As I was at the checkout, I noticed that the National Enquirer which used to love Trump now is pumping negative news about Fox News (claims of gay sex, drugs, etc.). Trump is becoming toxic to his own kind.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @Roger Moore: You’re not just winding me up, are you? That would be so, so wonderful!

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    chopper says:

    @wvng:

    6 months from now trump will publicly rip off his mask and OH GOD IT’S ORVILLE REDENBACHER

    ReplyReply
  16. 16

    Let’s figure out the Venn diagram intersection region of:

    a) Current senior White House official
    AND
    b) Significant on the campaign

    Bannon, Sessions, Jared, Ivanka, Reince Priebus, Steven Miller

    Who else am I missing from the very small set that these descriptions apply to

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    Raoul says:

    Ol’ Orvill is gonna be a billionaire after all this.

    But. As the senior senator for Hawaii tweeted a bit before the Friday dump

    Sorry for yelling guys. BUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS S@#%SHOW THEY ARE STILL TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR HEALTHCARE AND RUIN THE INTERNET.— Brian Schatz (@brianschatz) May 19, 2017

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    JMG says:

    The phrasing in the quotes in the Post story make it better than even money it’s Kushner. Sessions is not a White House official, he’s a cabinet officer.

    ReplyReply
  19. 19

    And as I’m sure you’ve seen already, the New York Times is reporting that he told the Russians firing the “nut job” Comey eased pressure on him.

    This is life in a Chinese curse, isn’t it. I’m glad to see Manbaby the Orange twisting in the wind, but sad for my country that we’ve sunk this low.

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    You know, more and more over the last week or so, I can’t help thinking what a good decision Melanoma made to just stay at Trump Tower NY.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    Raoul says:

    @David Anderson: Bannon, Kushner or Miller seem most likely. I am hoping it is Kushner, frankly.

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    germy says:

    Fox News gave “The Five” co-host Bob Beckel the boot Friday for making a racist remark to a black IT worker.

    Even their token “liberal” is a racist asshole.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    D58826 says:

    So how many times must Der Fuhrer say ‘I fired Comey to shut down the Russia probe” before it rises to the level of obstruction of justice?

    ReplyReply
  24. 24
    bystander says:

    Fire up the popcorn machine? More like grease the tumbrel axles.

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    Cacti says:

    I know it was you Jared. You broke my heart. You broke my heart.

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    Anne Laurie says:

    @randy khan:

    If I get to choose which one, I want it to be Sessions.

    I’m with you, but I suspect it’s more liable to be one of the “alt right” neo-Nazis, who are as interchangeable (& replaceable) as Legos.

    Be good fun if it were Jared, though! Does Trump’s “family first” commitment extend as far as his favorite-son-who’s-not-an-obvious-moron-like-his-genetic-ones?

    (Also, if it *is* Jared, does the little goniff seek asylum in Israel?)

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @JMG: Yeah, that was my first thought, too. Still, so sweet.

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    Roger Moore says:

    @randy khan:

    FWIW, I think the odds are that it’s not Tillerson, as he wasn’t part of Trumpland before the election.

    OTOH, he was very deeply involved with Russia before joining the administration, so it’s possible that his being made Sec State is something worth investigating.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    MazeDancer says:

    While Jared fits the description, as do his dirty deeds, we can’t overlook that Ivanka is also a current White House Senior Adviser. With no lack of participation in shady dealings as well.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    Raoul says:

    @The Fat Kate Middleton: Y’know, she is not a terribly sympathetic character. But I suspect that as she became more involved in the family, she realized how damaged his two other boys are and is trying to do what she can to steer Barron away from Trump’s orbit. And Trump, being a shitty father with enough sycophants around him via his older kids, obliges.
    Barron is still gonna be messed up. That famous photo of him, joyless, with the toy limo doesn’t bode well. But maybe he’ll have a shot at just being an indolent, obnoxious rich kid.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Brachiator says:

    @wvng:

    I think he will up and quit.

    You might be confusing Trump with Sarah Palin.

    I am willing to put down real money that Trump will never willingly quit or resign. His ego will not let him do it, even if it is the smart move.

    Not unless he could find a way to say that “My resignation is the biggest resignation ever. Bigger than Nixon.”

    A White House official close to Trump is now a person of interest in Russia probe, people familiar with the case say

    It would be comical to see Ivanka make a run for it, after Air Force One lands in some foreign country.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    Kay says:

    I hope it’s Sessions. Too much to ask, right? Well I do hope that! :)

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    MazeDancer says:

    It’s jared Kushner have confirmed this with four people. I’m not speculating

    Twitter update from @yashar

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Sessions is a cabinet secretary, not a White House official.

    It’s Kushner.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    Immanentize says:

    @JMG: By that logic, it can’t be Kushner because he is not in any capacity an “official.”. I think the phrase is sufficiently vague enough to cover all those crooks.
    In my criminal defense lawyer role, this looks like a pretty common “shake the trees” effort before questioning of a number of people begins.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    Again, I hope this is giving the whole Trump gang stress-induced bowel distress and that there’s only one semi-working toidy on AF 1.

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    Ian G. says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Wait, who said Jared isn’t a moron?

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Corner Stone says:

    @MazeDancer: Down, Down, Down! J Kush going Down!

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    Chet Murthy says:

    @🌷 Martin: And my senator (Scott Weiner!) voted for it! Yippee!!

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    Oh NOESSSS

    THE RUSSIANS INFILTRATED THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

    FOR SURE TOTES IS THE START OF THE RUSSPOCALYPSE!!!

    In other news, Chelsea Manning gets a hero’s reception and Assange gets a reprieve from the Swedish authorities!

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    Betty Cracker says:

    He (the Russian spy) went to Jared!

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @Raoul: Total agreement here. Just want to state that, as the teacher of multiple Aspy students and the grandmother of one, that little guy seems to have many of the qualities of Aspies. So, yeah, Mom is right – keep him out of that toxic environment. FWIW – I adore Aspy kids. Funniest, sweetest, most loving kids ever!

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    (Also, if it *is* Jared, does the little goniff seek asylum in Israel?)

    And if so, does Israel grant it, or tell him to piss off since Papa casually burned their deep cover spy?

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Brachiator: Hypothetically, if Trump was re-elected in 2020, do you think he would leave office willingly at the end of second term?

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    Miss Bianca says:

    @chopper: LOL!! That’s even better than Andy Kaufman!

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Aimai says:

    The real question is:is there room at the ecuadorian embassy for Jared?

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    Raoul says:

    @Brachiator:

    It would be comical to see Ivanka make a run for it, after Air Force One lands in some foreign country.

    Serious question to BJers: Do Ivanka and Jared have rights to become Israelis? I don’t know much at all about the Law of Return. Nor what Israel’s obligations might be under an extradition order.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    kd bart says:

    “I see nothing!!!!”-Paul “Sgt. Schultz” Ryan

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    NCSteve says:

    Jared Kushner in the Conservatory with a server configured to act as one of two SQL database synchronization intermediaries between one run by Russian intelligence and one buried in Spectrum Health’s farm. Or, possibly, a candlestick.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Pay no attention to the Russian behind the curtain!

    Haven’t seen this asshole in awhile. This a big fucking deal you idiot. This ain’t JFK and magic bullets. This is probably the biggest scandal in US history.

    This is about having free and fair elections in our country

    And only a scumbag would troll about rapey Julian Assuage

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    Nicole says:

    Speaking of, if y’all haven’t seen John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight on the (alleged) shoe-design stealer and her husband and his $2.5 million Harvard degree, here’s the link:

    (Apologies if it’s been posted before)

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Baud says:

    Ivanka’s plan is coming together nicely.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    djork says:

    If it is Sessions, are there any mandatory minimums he can be hit with?

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Assange gets a reprieve from the Swedish authorities!

    He would have been better off with the Swedes.

    Now he gets to pick between thrown off a high building by the CIA or the KGB.

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @djork: All of them, Katie!

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    chopper says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    i think it’s bannon.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    When you see the name, scroll… scroll… scroll…

    He’s a dullard.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    Baud says:

    Wasn’t Trump supposed to have fired everybody by this point? He should have done it.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Yes, as a matter of fact, Russia interfered with our elections and that’s why a Special Counsel has been appointed to investigate. Got it now?

    ReplyReply
  60. 60

    All BS trolls are out in full force since morning. Coincidence? I think not.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Fat Kate Middleton: Only Jared is a White House official.

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It is uncanny.

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    I am willing to put down real money that Trump will never willingly quit or resign. His ego will not let him do it, even if it is the smart move.

    Same here. He’s going to resist to his bitter end.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    eclare says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Good point.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:

    This is life in a Chinese curse, isn’t it.

    You only realized it now?

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Patricia Kayden: He’ll probably respond with some bs about how the US is uniquely evil and “deserved” it, powerless innocents be dammed

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Brachiator:

    I am willing to put down real money that Trump will never willingly quit or resign. His ego will not let him do it, even if it is the smart move.

    If Mueller’s investigation comes back with wrongdoing on his part which would embarrass and possibly lead to severe consequences, I’m sure Trump will find a way to bow out. We’re only in the fourth month of his presidency and look at all the mess he’s in. Is he going to sit through a bruising investigation if it becomes obvious that Mueller has the goods on him? Doubt it.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @David Anderson:

    Kellyanne?

    ETA: I don’t think it actually is Kellyanne, just that she should be on the list/in the Venn.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Hal says:

    My current draft picks for President and Vice President in 2020 is Kirsten Gillibrand and Jason Kander. Dream team would be Michelle Obama and Gillibrand as VP.

    But Kander might be too low profile.

    ReplyReply

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    McMaster looks more and more stupid with each day that passes.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): I mean, his trolling was pretty obvious. I like to respond at least once

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @Adam L Silverman: All I can say is … good. That would make me very happy.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Immanentize says:

    @djork: Just because of my line of work, I so want it to be Sessions.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: Unless he’s the leaker! Then he might be the hero in this story.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷: You’re wasting your time.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷: I just hope that Mueller’s investigation is steady and slow so that we get a drip drip drip which slowly but surely sinks Trump’s regime and takes down top GOP officials with it. Anyone supporting Trump and his ilk now in the face of all these scandals is a joke.

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Brachiator:

    I am willing to put down real money that Trump will never willingly quit or resign. His ego will not let him do it, even if it is the smart move.

    It’s all about the framing. Trump is absolutely capable of pulling a “You don’t get to HAVE me! I’m taking my ball and going home!” maneuver out of spite. He just has to frame it as being treated so unfairly that the rest of the country doesn’t deserve him, and he’ll take off.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Maybe a reenactment of the final scene of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Baud says:

    You guys are so ungreedy. I say let it be Sessions and Jared and Bannon!

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    Yutsano says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Okay who forgot to put out the Troll-B-Gone?

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    If Mueller’s investigation comes back with wrongdoing on his part which would embarrass and possibly lead to severe consequences, I’m sure Trump will find a way to bow out.

    Why?

    Every other time he merely doubles down and plows straight ahead like an angry bull.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82

    @satby:
    Best scenario is we muddle through with minimum damage to 2018, retake the House, Trump and Pence are both impeached because the investigation has revealed they’re both neck-deep in this, and we get President Pelosi. I can certainly see the investigation dragging on that long. I can’t see Republicans voting to put Pelosi in charge, but then, if they get pushed so far they’re willing to impeach at all, considerations like that stop being unrealistic.

    EDIT – @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:
    I don’t think it matters. If he’s legally removed from office, including by election, the Secret Service will drag him from the building and there’s not a damn thing Trump can do about it. He doesn’t have the friends to launch a coup.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    And not just the top of the ticket, either: Russia interfered in House elections, too.

    Funny how Bechamel never wants to talk about Russian interference and immediately wants to change the subject as soon as it comes up, innit? 🤔

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @MisterForkbeard: “I can drain the swamp better as a private citizen.”

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    germy says:

    Kushner pushed for Comey firing after stories broke about his sister in China and that the FBI probe was expanding to financial dealings https://t.co/2jv64NcG0L— Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) May 17, 2017

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    TenguPhule says:

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Don’t think we can book Niagra Falls. David Koresh option is more likely

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @TenguPhule: Assange still faces arrest if he steps a pinky toe outside of the Ecuadorian embassy. He’s still not a free man so I’m not sure why people are prematurely celebrating.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    hedgehog mobile says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Truth.

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @germy: These people have no concept at all of ‘rule of law’, do they?

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Not a coincidence. Even the ones who aren’t actual paid trolls can’t admit that the Russians fucked with our elections, because that would mean that the Democrats were not the worst party ever and solely responsible for their own problems. Gotta stick to the narrative of Crooked Hillary and Dishonest DNC at all costs, y’know.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Early reporting was misleading.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    And we have to have Peter Whatsisname dub it for him. Serafinowicz.

    I think this is correct. If he can just frame it to himself this way, he’ll do it.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I don’t think it matters. If he’s legally removed from office, including by election, the Secret Service will drag him from the building and there’s not a damn thing Trump can do about it.

    He has his own personal security force there. Nobody has ever reported exactly how big that force is and what ties if any it has with XI corp.

    So, not quite as impossible as you might first believe.

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    Raoul says:

    @Corner Stone: Yeah, I thought about McMaster being in that room, hearing Trump brag about obstructing justice to the Russians, and ’bout the only thing I could come up with is that he’s not a law enforcement person or lawyer.
    But to stand up for Trump at that hasty presser last week? Dumb. Career-sinkingly dumb.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    That’s a characteristic of Putin’s Russia as well.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96

    @TenguPhule:
    I laugh at this. If they are somehow dumb enough to try to shoot it out with the Secret Service, they will be removed with Trump in body bags. They are outnumbered, outgunned, and nobody will be on their side because Trump has no friends.

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    efgoldman says:

    @Immanentize:

    this looks like a pretty common “shake the trees” effort before questioning of a number of people begins.

    Yup. It’s time for the DC Defense Lawyers Full Employment Act to be implemented again.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Assange needs to talk to Roman Polanski if he thinks that jumping bail is something prosecutors are willing to hand-wave aside even after the statute of limitations has passed on the original crime. Turns out that bail-jumping is itself a crime in most places, and prosecutors tend to be very humorless when people do it.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m still waiting for BS himself to end up as a “person of interest.” I’m not sure there hasn’t been some collusion there as well, as I think you agree.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    TenguPhule says:

    @germy:

    Kushner pushed for Comey firing after stories broke about his sister in China and that the FBI probe was expanding to financial dealings

    Panicked reaction starts chain reaction.

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And not just the top of the ticket, either: Russia interfered in House elections, too.

    Hmmmm. Kay had mentioned this the other day. Mueller has his hands full since this is even deeper than most of us would have thought. Wouldn’t be surprised if Congress Critters like Paul Ryan have some connections to Russia.

    Yes, it is strange that trolls are okay with Russian interference with our election and want to change the subject each time it is brought up. They need to go elsewhere since Balloon Juice has its eyes on the prize. We are not confused here.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    Sessions should resign just for consorting with criminals at this point. If he’s not part of it he sure was close to these people. One would think he would have caught one or two, even accidentally.

    Did he notice they kept asking him to leave the room? “get out, Jeff. We conspire at 3:30”

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    LAO says:

    @efgoldman: Come on, there has to be room for some NYC defense attorneys, right?

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    Baud says:

    @Kay: I bet if they ever get a hold of Trump’s scheduler, there will be an entry for “Conspiracy Mtg”.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: Ha! That would be hilarious, wouldn’t it? I’d gladly admit I misjudged her. 🙂

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    Baud says:

    @LAO: Which one of these clowns are you gonna represent?

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He’s still not a free man

    Bullshit. I heard that on the news this morning and it pissed me off then, too. He can pack his shit and walk out any day he wants. He is as free as you or I. Now, he may face some problems at that point, but he’s in the Embassy entirely of his own volition.

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    Mary G says:

    My money is on Jared. I keep going back to the first tour of the White House when he was amazed to hear that all the employees were leaving with Obama. Also he paid the most money ever to buy that building at 666 (bad luck sign right there) Fifth Ave. He keeps trying to refinance it and the Chinese dropped out, so he needs cash. He thinks he is smart, but he isn’t, just like Twitler. They have the same daddy issues, too.

    ReplyReply
  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If they are somehow dumb enough to try to shoot it out with the Secret Service, they will be removed with Trump in body bags. They are outnumbered, outgunned, and nobody will be on their side because Trump has no friends.

    Again, there have been zero reports beyond confirmation that he does have his own personally loyal security.

    But given his ties to the Devos, its not out of the question that they’re from XI.

    Which was once called Blackwater. And which specialized in hiring ex-US special and regular forces.

    And is now working hand in hand with China.

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @zhena gogolia: Never thought of that before. I’m willing to give Senator Sanders the benefit of the doubt that he is not involved with Russia for any reason. I don’t see how that would help him with Democrats/Liberals/Progressives, which are his constituents.

    Jill Stein, on the other hand, …

    ReplyReply
  111. 111
    efgoldman says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Oh NOESSSS

    Ooooh Nooooooooooooooooooooessss!
    The Wilmerbot troll is back.
    Did you find a leftover uncashed check from your Russian paymasters?

    ReplyReply
  112. 112
    Yutsano says:

    @Patricia Kayden: And he’s not even really off the hook in Sverige either. They just couldn’t keep investigating while Julian was camping out in the Ecuadorian embassy. The charges will come right back if he even LOOKS at Swedish soil again.

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    TenguPhule says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    He can pack his shit and walk out any day he wants.

    And straight into the CIA or KGB?

    I think not.

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    zhena gogolia says:

    @efgoldman:

    It seems to have been a drive-by.

    ReplyReply
  115. 115
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: What do you mean? The article I linked was from 4 hours ago.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    SatanicPanic says:

    Important question- does Kushner wear his blazer over or under his orange jumpsuit?

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    LAO says:

    @Baud: All of them Katie.

    Seriously, what defense lawyer wouldn’t jump at the chance to bankrupt these fuckers.

    ETA: grammar and spelling are hard.

    ReplyReply
  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Trump is absolutely capable of pulling a “You don’t get to HAVE me! I’m taking my ball and going home!” maneuver out of spite. He just has to frame it as being treated so unfairly that the rest of the country doesn’t deserve him, and he’ll take off.

    Yep. If he can frame it for himself and his fans as him being unfairly martyred by the cruel media and evil Democrats, he’ll do it in a heartbeat. And never underestimate a narcissist’s ability to blame their self-created problems on other people. If nothing else, they cling to their victimization narrative until the people being accused break down and agree to it just to get the narcissist to shut the fuck up about it.

    ReplyReply
  119. 119

    @Mnemosyne:
    I read a long piece by his ghost writer describing why the memoirs ended up being published, late, against Assange’s will. Apparently he’s seriously paranoid, racist, narcissistic, and kind of lazy. He particularly has the narcissist trait of refusing to believe that he is bound by money rules that bind other people. Jumping bail and thinking it’s not a problem is exactly the kind of thing he would do. He’s sure it will work out because he’s the good guy and he deserves to be let off and the only way it won’t happen is if the evil conspiracy sets him up. Oh, and he’s sure there are assassins after him.

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    Brachiator says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Hypothetically, if Trump was re-elected in 2020, do you think he would leave office willingly at the end of second term?

    That’s an interesting question. I believe that some of his supporters would be happy if Trump proclaimed himself to be God King of America.

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden: This morning, the stories made it seem like Sweden was dropping everything. That wasn’t accurate.

    ReplyReply
  122. 122
    Raoul says:

    Brian Buetler has an interesting little thread going on Twitter. Far as I can tell, there is some speculation that, due to Rosenstein declining to answer a hearing question this week about who asked him to write the memo (saying “that’s a matter for Meuller now”), suggests Sessions asked him to write it. Which, if accurate, means Sessions violated his recusal to order potential obstruction of justice.
    And this seems different than the item @top. Unless we’re thinking the ‘Russia’ thing is money (which I think is very much in play), but Meuller is already sniffing Sessions was the lynchpin on the firing.
    So interesting!

    ReplyReply
  123. 123
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Oh, and he’s sure there are assassins after him.

    And he’s probably right about that.

    Between Putin wanting to tie up a loose end and the CIA wanting to stop an enemy asset, he’s a dead man walking the moment he’s out in the open.

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And if so, does Israel grant it, or tell him to piss off since Papa casually burned their deep cover spy?

    AFAIK, they can’t; he has the right of return.

    ReplyReply
  125. 125

    @TenguPhule:
    I don’t care where they’re from or if they will fight for him. Every branch and variation of military, law enforcement, and intelligence are against them. What can they do? Hole up in the White House and fortify it? Assuming they last five seconds against a Secret Service that will absolutely be prepared for the possibility of violence?

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
    Corner Stone says:

    @zhena gogolia: Hey. I asked on a recent thread. What do you know that you can share about Sarah Kendzior that might be about her cred?

    ReplyReply
  127. 127
    Baud says:

    @LAO: Get a retainer! A big one!

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    Hal says:

    @germy: So Kush uses his influence to have Comey fired to protect a family member going to jail and Trump obliged. Cool. Maybe Jared will end up in prison like his father.

    ReplyReply
  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I know virtually nothing. People kept linking to her right after the election, I wasn’t impressed by what I read.

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    What can they do? Hole up in the White House and fortify it? Assuming they last five seconds against a Secret Security that will absolutely be prepared for the possibility of violence?

    That would depend on how many of them there are and what role they have in the SS security arrangements.

    I doubt they would be successful, but I can see Trump trying it anyway. And they could buy him enough time to do something incredibly dangerous (stupid would be a given).

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    LAO says:

    @Baud: I should have edited my comment to add, “in my dreams.”

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    Sunny Raines says:

    my money’s on the kush.

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: In advance. And cash the check the same day.

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m thinking more “material witness,” verging on “unwitting dupe.”

    Tad Devine is the one I’m really suspicious of there. We already know he has no scruples whatsoever and that he hates the Clintons.

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Corner Stone: She’s smart and has good experience.

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I wasn’t impressed by what I read

    I have been.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: He may not have friends in high places, but he does have a very rabid base that’s not innumerous.

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule: And convert the funds from rubles to dollars…

    ReplyReply
  139. 139

    @TenguPhule:

    And they could buy him enough time to do something incredibly dangerous (stupid would be a given).

    What? At that point he’s not president, and nobody’s going to push the button if he says so. The military is not going go save him. I completely agree that Trump might be sufficiently insane to try it. I would not be surprised if he has to be dragged kicking and screaming from the White House when he legally ceases to be president, however it happens. I doubt his private security will want to get themselves killed attempting a coup, but I guess it’s possible. They will still lose, and he will still leave office and be replaced, almost certainly that same day. It would be one more shocking travesty marking the Trump Administration Dumpster Fire, but it won’t have the slightest effect on the actual transfer of power.

    EDIT – @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:
    And are cowardly as Hell. They’re just brave enough to pile on with online threats and abuse. It’s one of the defining traits of the angry conservative.

    ReplyReply
  140. 140
    randy khan says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    It’s all about the framing. Trump is absolutely capable of pulling a “You don’t get to HAVE me! I’m taking my ball and going home!” maneuver out of spite. He just has to frame it as being treated so unfairly that the rest of the country doesn’t deserve him, and he’ll take off.

    I completely agree, and that’s actually the nightmare scenario for the Republicans – some kind of noisy resignation where he puts the blame on the party’s Congressional leadership and tells his followers they can’t trust the party.

    ReplyReply
  141. 141
    LAO says:

    @Hal: If Jared is the person of interest in the Mueller investigation, than he most likely knew before Comey was fired. It’s very hard to conduct an investigation,in secrecy, from the target. Witnesses aren’t prohibited from speaking about their conversations with law enforcement.

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I haven’t been following her lately.

    ReplyReply
  143. 143

    @Corner Stone: She is too good to be a Democrat.
    @Mnemosyne: I judge him by his actions, which help T. We have no idea about his financial dealings either.

    ReplyReply
  144. 144
    zhena gogolia says:

    @randy khan:

    Yes, this is one scenario I’m hoping for.

    ReplyReply
  145. 145
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Betty Cracker: He TOTALLY went to Jared!

    (IThe Jared Xmas commercial with the three girls from several years ago.)

    ReplyReply
  146. 146

    @zhena gogolia: Neither have I. I don’t trust people who think they can predict the future with 100% certainty.

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    LAO says:

    @zhena gogolia: @randy khan: I totally agree as well. If Trump goes, he doesn’t go quietly and he burns the Republican Party to ashes.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    efgoldman says:

    @djork:

    If it is Sessions, are there any mandatory minimums he can be hit with?

    Like all of them, Evil Leprechaun will sing like a whole flock of canaries to save his own ass.

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    At that point he’s not president, and nobody’s going to push the button if he says so.

    Only if he waited until 1/20 to do so. If he rejected the results on 11/8, that still gives him over two months to do an incredible amount of damage while the SS couldn’t legally stop him. If on 1/20 he refuses to pass power, only then does the SS get their hands untied.

    He would still have all powers until then.

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    MazeDancer says:

    Trump will have written Jared’s pardons and a blanket pre-pardon for future events by the time Air Force 1 lands.

    Manafort and Flynn will be advised if they incriminate Jared or Ivanka they also lose all chance at pardons. Or even Club Fed easy ride.

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    Elizabelle says:

    Hello buds. Spanish newspapers are calling it Russiagate. “Tormenta en la Casa Blanca” seems to be their tagline.

    Me, I think Trump will resign within the year. I think the Republicans are Mar-a-loco if they think they can slow walk or control this. People are woke.

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Only somewhat O/T: greennotGreen and her family continue to occupy my mind and my heart. The news has been such a firehose that I was stunned to realise that gnG departed this (increasingly weird) world only yesterday. It feels like a week ago. But if there’s anything to this life-after-death rumor, I hope she is following all the latest Trumpian developments with her usual gusto and humor.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Tormenta en la Casa Blanca

    Hahaha.

    ETA: Sounds like a telenovella.

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    Quinerly says:

    @SatanicPanic:
    Thanks for my afternoon LOL. Just catching up on Friday. My $$ are on Jared. I’d rather it be Sessions but it appears to be someone in the WH.

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    mezz says:

    @MazeDancer: Sorry if this also has already been mentioned – but I believe that if That Man pardons Kushner and/or Ivanka, they lose their Fifth Amendment protection and can be compelled to testify or locked up.

    So I’m h o p i n g h o p i n g h o p i n g that it is Kushner. Plus that’ll drive his neoFascist supporters fucking bonkers. WINNING

    ReplyReply
  156. 156
    Mnemosyne says:

    I have to say, this classic song by the Black-Eyed Peas has been an earworm for a couple of days now.

    A girl can hope.

    ReplyReply
  157. 157

    @TenguPhule:
    Even before then, no one is going to back him up trying to make any preparations to subvert the transfer of power. He is also, thankfully, the most dim, incompetent, and senile politician imaginable. If he decides he should nuke California, he’ll get distracted by blinking lights before he can finish giving the order. Outside of actual military strikes, he can’t do more damage to the country than he is already doing, because he’s actively trying his hardest to tear down everything. This is all he’s got.

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    Baud says:

    @mezz: Bannon is the neofascist. Kushner is in it for the bucks.

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    He has his own personal security force there.

    Yeah, yeah. End of the world fantasies.
    You think any of the goons are willing to die or go to jail for him?
    Gummint has a LOT more guys with guns and actual training.

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule: The first American President to nuke his own country. Hey it’s a kind of accomplishment

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    Raoul says:

    Question:
    If it is Kushner, and he goes from person of interest to charged, can a pardon be issued to make the charge go away, or only after any possible conviction?

    ReplyReply
  162. 162
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mezz:

    I believe that if That Man pardons Kushner and/or Ivanka, they lose their Fifth Amendment protection and can be compelled to testify or locked up.

    I have heard that, but since IANAL, I have no idea if it’s true or just wishful thinking.

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    Raoul says:

    @Baud: And the daddy issues. He’s got those driving his damaged ego, too. Its why he and the Orange Outrage are so simpatico.

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    mai naem mobile says:

    I hope the whole lot go. We should have a prediction contest on who goes to prison/probation and how much time they get. C’mon Doug this is right up your alley. I say Jared – 2 years, Flynn – 10 yrs, Manafort – 8 yrs, Carter Page – 10 years because he won’t know when to shut up, Cohen – 4 years,disbarment, Sessions – 8 yrs, disbarment, Nunez – 3 yrs. Can’t decide on Dolt and Dense.

    ReplyReply
  165. 165
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule: Yeah, but at that point, couldn’t Congress ram through articles of impeachment? Repubs would want as much of the system they depend on to survive, as well as keep living themselves

    Or the cabinet pulls the 25th

    ReplyReply
  166. 166
    Brachiator says:

    @MisterForkbeard: RE: I am willing to put down real money that Trump will never willingly quit or resign. His ego will not let him do it, even if it is the smart move.

    It’s all about the framing. Trump is absolutely capable of pulling a “You don’t get to HAVE me! I’m taking my ball and going home!” maneuver out of spite. He just has to frame it as being treated so unfairly that the rest of the country doesn’t deserve him, and he’ll take off.

    I don’t think that Trump is psychologically capable of retreating. He is on too big a public stage. Also, if he had to admit that he could not handle the presidency, he would be acknowledging that a black man, Obama, was his superior. That, Trump would never do.

    Again, I would put down real money on this. I think that anyone who believes that there are any circumstances under which Trump would resign are displacing their own hopes and dreams onto any way that Trump has ever behaved in the past. He is pugnaciously confrontational, especially when he is jammed up.

    ReplyReply
  167. 167
    Baud says:

    @Raoul: Pardon can issue at any time.

    ReplyReply
  168. 168
    efgoldman says:

    @LAO:

    there has to be room for some NYC defense attorneys

    Sorry, but the DC contingent has long and deep experience in this kind of thing.
    I bet Mueller’s shop is hiring flocks (gaggles? herds?) of investigators/lawyers as well.

    ReplyReply
  169. 169
    randy khan says:

    @Raoul:

    You don’t have to wait for a conviction to pardon someone. Ford pardoned Nixon before there were any charges. GHWB pardoned someone (I forget who) between indictment and trial.

    ReplyReply
  170. 170
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Classic and Black Eyed Peas in the same sentence?

    ReplyReply
  171. 171
    efgoldman says:

    @Baud:

    Which one of these clowns are you gonna represent?

    First one in the door with a certified check

    (I kid)

    ReplyReply
  172. 172
    🌷 Martin says:

    @David Anderson: Would be interested in your take on this statement:

    Cook also described the impediments in the U.S. to making high-quality and intuitive health products, namely the priority for medical device makers to get reimbursement from insurance companies. “This is an area where I’m very excited about Apple’s contribution,” he said. “Very excited.”

    Sounds like a go-to-market strategy that either bypasses or significantly alters the need for insurer reimbursement. From a technological perspective, it should be massively cheaper to bring a non-invasive glucose meter to market if the medical approval components are nothing more than the sensor and software, with the hardware being treated as an unregulated platform with all of the benefits of economy of scale and multi-use. Once you can treat the $250+ for the Watch as a sunk cost, $50 for the sensor/software puts it down in the co-pay price range, and you just skip the reimbursement. Now, this obviously doesn’t work for people that don’t have the out-of-pocket funds for the Watch to begin with (which is a lot of people), but it could put a huge dent in the market, particularly for pre-diabetic individuals to manage their condition.

    There’s a lot of assumptions built into that, but Cook revealing a change in the go-to-market approach for devices like this is very unusual.

    ReplyReply
  173. 173
    efgoldman says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    If he can frame it for himself and his fans as him being unfairly martyred by the cruel media and evil Democrats, he’ll do it in a heartbeat.

    I still think he’s leaving strapped to a gurney, regardless of the investigation.
    He’s not getting any younger or healthier, and the stress level is going to get way beyond the (bad enough) stresses that the “president” has to deal with.

    ReplyReply
  174. 174
    mai naem mobile says:

    It could be Reince being that Mitch and Paul Ryan seem scared shitless. If Russkie money was being somehow routed to the GOP.

    ReplyReply
  175. 175
    Miss Bianca says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I dunno…for one thing, wouldn’t it be easier to nail him on a bunch of the things he’s being investigated for, if he resigns the Presidency and becomes a private citizen again? I bet Trump’s lawyers can manage to explain that concept to him. I wouldn’t bet much on it, mind you, but…

    ReplyReply
  176. 176
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Brachiator: That’s it, though – Trump will do it if he can frame it not as a retreat, but as an attack. Literally, if he can make himself believe that by leaving he’s depriving us of his awesomeness and that’s the worst thing he can do, he’ll do it. He’ll make a lot of noise about how he was persecuted and hated worse than anyone else, and he’s decided we aren’t worth his time.

    But he’ll MAGA as a private citizen, where he won’t be undercut by leaks and attacks at all times.

    ReplyReply
  177. 177
    Roger Moore says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Also, too, a siege is always a possibility. Cut off access to supplies and they’ll come out when food gets low. Besides, what would be the point? It’s not as if physically occupying the White House would give trump any material benefit if the rest of the government refused to acknowledge him as the legitimate president.

    ReplyReply
  178. 178
    trollhattan says:

    The word “unprecedented” characterized Trump’s campaign and his unlikely election as president. Similarly, “unprecedented” describes the serious challenges and threats to Trump’s presidency, especially after just four months in office. At this point in time, it is highly probable that Trump will join the ranks of the nine previous presidents who did not complete their term – although he could become the first president convicted of impeachment and removed from office.

    –Mike Purdy, presidential historian

    ReplyReply
  179. 179
    Corner Stone says:

    @zhena gogolia: Ok, thanks. I thought I saw you urge caution on her specifically and was not sure if that had something I could read up on.
    I think she makes sense, for the most part. I don’t expect her to tell the future, just make sensible comparisons I can evaluate for myself.

    ReplyReply
  180. 180
    🌷 Martin says:

    @MazeDancer: Trump would be impeached for abuse of power if he pardoned his kids. He doesn’t really get a blank check anywhere from here out.

    ReplyReply
  181. 181
    mai naem mobile says:

    I don’t think even Dolt would pardon Kushner because even the GOP congress would impeach Dolt over that kind of pardon.

    ReplyReply
  182. 182
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    You think any of the goons are willing to die or go to jail for him?
    Gummint has a LOT more guys with guns and actual training.

    Yes, but all those other people tend to be scattered all over the place. Not right around Trump at the moment.

    Given just how much criminal shit they pulled as Blackwater, what’s one more constitutional crisis with preemptive pardons in their pockets and Erik’s checks in the bank? I’m not willing to bet how True Believer mercenaries would decide.

    ReplyReply
  183. 183
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @TenguPhule: Oh for fuck’s sake…. It isn’t going to happen.

    ReplyReply
  184. 184
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Yeah, but at that point, couldn’t Congress ram through articles of impeachment?

    I can’t think of anything that will get Republicans to stop siding with Trump.

    ReplyReply
  185. 185
    Roger Moore says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    The first American President to nuke his own country.

    That would be Harry Truman.

    ReplyReply
  186. 186
    TenguPhule says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: We’re speculating on a hypothetical brought up by Goku. Do keep up.

    ReplyReply
  187. 187
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Baud: Oh. Okay. Didn’t hear that part of the story.
    @Yutsano: That’s interesting. The rape victims deserved their day in court.

    ReplyReply
  188. 188
    debbie says:

    @satby:

    I don’t know about that, but at present, Trump is seriously compromised and the GOP agenda has come to a halt. Those are both victories in my book. The odds of impeachment can’t be very good.

    ReplyReply
  189. 189
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t think that Trump is psychologically capable of retreating.

    That’s why he would frame it, not as a retreat, but as him being unfairly maligned by his enemies, so he is regretfully resigning for the good of the country even though he is 100 percent innocent.

    The narcissist is completely focused on protecting his or her self-image, and they are perfectly capable of twisting themselves into any shape that ends with them claiming that they’re the real victims.

    That’s where it gets tricky dealing with a narcissist — they will reverse themselves on a dime, say the complete opposite of what they said the day before, and dare you to say otherwise. He’s not delusional, because delusions have to be fixed. He can make any leap necessary to protect his self-image, even if it’s something he publicly swore he’d never do.

    ReplyReply
  190. 190
    Corner Stone says:

    @🌷 Martin:

    Trump would be impeached for abuse of power if he pardoned his kids. He doesn’t really get a blank check anywhere from here out.

    Step foot out of CA once in a while. He could pardon Ivanka’s pony at this point.

    ReplyReply
  191. 191
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Everyone should read this article. It’s about how the Trump campaign used Cambridge Analytica to help target voters and to discourse Democrats from voting at the precinct level. Here’s the link.

    ReplyReply
  192. 192
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Miss Bianca: Yes, BUT: There will probably be significantly less interest in nailing him once he leaves office. And he can leave (maybe) people in office behind him who will try to minimize that.

    I’m not sure whether Republicans would want to go after him tooth and nail to prove they’re “different” from Trump, or whether they’d want to protect him like they’re doing now in order to minimize their own exposure.

    ReplyReply
  193. 193
    Fair Economist says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Not a coincidence. Even the ones who aren’t actual paid trolls can’t admit that the Russians fucked with our elections,

    I know this sounds like I’m tinfoil-worthy, but I think *most* of the BernieBros are paid trolls, and they’ve been getting paid for a long time – back into the Bush administration. I’ve seen too many commenters who have been around for a decade or more continuing to support the Russian line even after it’s become totally ridiculous. (No, not naming names – counterproductive.)

    Note – by “BernieBros” I don’t mean people who preferred Sanders to Clinton, but those who kept ranting about how awful Clinton and the Democratic party were even after the convention, when it was clear what we were facing, and the Democrats were running on the most liberal platform in 30 years.

    ReplyReply
  194. 194
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Fuck you. I love Black Eyed Peas. Except for that stupid milkshake song, which nonetheless has a hook that creates an earworm that can’t be killed, even with fire.

    ReplyReply
  195. 195
    JPL says:

    @mai naem mobile: Would he be pardoned before or after the tax cuts? That would make a difference.

    Can’t remember who, but it was stated that they were also looking at someone on the transition team while in Congress. That could be Sessions

    ReplyReply
  196. 196
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    “Jared from The White House, meet Jared from Subway. You two will be spending a lot of time together.”

    ReplyReply
  197. 197
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule: As stupid and authoritarian as the GOP is, I can’t see them siding with him in this scenario. The reason why is he would be a threat to them and their power. A dangerous and unstable loon like him menacing them like that would have to go.

    The game isn’t rigged enough so far for them to get away with that if they did

    ReplyReply
  198. 198
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    He can make any leap necessary to protect his self-image, even if it’s something he publicly swore he’d never do.

    But he also never apologizes and never makes strategic withdrawals. His only plan is always the charge of the Fools Brigade.

    He’s not going to leave because it wouldn’t be the stupidest worst way to go.

    ReplyReply
  199. 199
    lamh36 says:

    @yashar 17s17 seconds ago
    More
    CNN Breaking News: White House Officials are researching impeachment procedures should that become a possibility.

    ReplyReply
  200. 200
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    As stupid and authoritarian as the GOP is, I can’t see them siding with him in this scenario.

    That depends on whether they decide to jump in with him.

    We didn’t think they’d jump into complete treason until they did.

    ReplyReply
  201. 201
    debbie says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Casually slung over his shoulder.

    ReplyReply
  202. 202
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Roger Moore: You know how I meant. BJ pedants strike again

    ReplyReply
  203. 203
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36:

    CNN Breaking News: White House Officials are researching impeachment procedures should that become a possibility.

    You can tell its Trump employees because they’re only starting now.

    ReplyReply
  204. 204
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Only if he waited until 1/20 to do so.

    You need to move to South America or Finland or someplace; it suits you better.
    Your act is getting really tireesome.

    ReplyReply
  205. 205
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule: And do you think the military/IC and the 49 other governments that make up the US would go along with it? In your scenario, maybe some of the GOP controlled ones would. But then even they’re not a monolith. There would be dissenting voices.

    What would likely happen would be a balkanization of the United States, and that couldn’t come at worse time for the world

    ReplyReply
  206. 206
    germy says:

    London (dpa) – WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said he will not “forgive or forget” the fact that he was “detained for seven years without charge,” after Swedish prosecutors said they had dropped a rape charge against him.

    “Detained for seven years without charge … while my children grew up and my name was slandered,” Assange, who took refuge in the Ecuadorean embassy in London in 2012, wrote on Twitter

    “I do not forgive or forget,” he said.

    ReplyReply
  207. 207
    lamh36 says:

    @TenguPhule: IKR.. CNN talking bout sources say only preparing for the possibility…when has this admin “prepared” for anything…lol

    ReplyReply
  208. 208
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman: Pondering a hypothetical situation here. Don’t you have a CNN to yell at?

    ReplyReply
  209. 209
    ET says:

    Goo I hope this gif from The Poke works because it is soooo appropriate for this thread/post.

    ReplyReply
  210. 210
    Bailey says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Trump will have written Jared’s pardons and a blanket pre-pardon for future events by the time Air Force 1 lands.

    Manafort and Flynn will be advised if they incriminate Jared or Ivanka they also lose all chance at pardons. Or even Club Fed easy ride.

    Are there any examples of presidents pardoning members of their administration during their administration?

    ReplyReply
  211. 211
    Ian G. says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Thread won.

    ReplyReply
  212. 212
    SgrAstar says:

    @TenguPhule: If/when DJT is required to vacate the WH, there’s absolutely no reason for him to stay there, even if he did want to stage a coup. He’d lose all access to presidential power instantaneously; no number of erik prince zombies can substitute for that. Plus, the WH services could just be shut down. How long would trump last without his cokes and the WH kitchen? Think about it. No food service, no housekeeping, no staff…he wouldn’t last a day.

    ReplyReply
  213. 213
    efgoldman says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Trump will have written Jared’s pardons and a blanket pre-pardon for future events

    Not the way it works; the problem with accepting a pardon as part of a conspiracy is, once pardoned your testimony can be compelled, because you no longer need fifth amendment protections against self-incrimination.
    I really doubt that “the president” knows or understands that.

    ReplyReply
  214. 214
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @germy: The balls on that guy. He wasn’t “detained”, he decided to hide from criminal charges by secreting himself in another country’s embassy. He could have left at any time and just been put on trial – and if he hadn’t done the “run into the embassy” thing he likely wouldn’t even have had a high bail.

    Would’ve been totally free at all times to do whatever he wanted – provided he was innocent.

    ETA: Also, his statement reads like something I’d find on a livejournal account 15 years ago. He loves making a victim out of himself, that’s for sure.

    ReplyReply
  215. 215
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    What would likely happen would be a balkanization of the United States, and that couldn’t come at worse time for the world

    Yes, that is how I see it likely playing out. There are enough Trump true believers that while he couldn’t win, it could mushroom into something ugly and out of control.

    ReplyReply
  216. 216
    Baud says:

    @germy: Yeah, that guy’s trustworthy.

    ReplyReply
  217. 217
    Morzer says:

    @Fair Economist:

    FWIW, I think you’ve got a point, although it’s pretty clear that some of the Russophiles do genuinely believe the Russian propaganda line and will argue for it without pay. There are plenty of useful idiots out there. Are they supplemented by the compensated hordes and bots? Sure, absolutely – but let’s not discount the alarming power of learned stupidity. There’s an abundance of it on the right and it would be surprising if there wasn’t a decent cohort on the “left” as well.

    ReplyReply
  218. 218
    germy says:

    @MisterForkbeard: In a new documentary he blames feminism for his problems.

    ReplyReply
  219. 219
    ET says:

    @wvng: I have thought that as well. Being President is a lot different than he likely thought and it does require actual work.

    ReplyReply
  220. 220
    No Drought No More says:

    My grandmother died convinced that Harding had been poisoned by his wife while touring the west coast (“outside the D.C. bubble”, so to speak) to spare him the disgrace of impeachment. Will President Ryan grant Trump and Pence full and free pardons? My guess is he probably will.

    ReplyReply
  221. 221
    Baud says:

    @germy: He knows who his base is.

    ReplyReply
  222. 222
    rikyrah says:

    @Cacti:

    I know it was you Jared. You broke my heart. You broke my heart.

    BWA H HA HA H HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    ReplyReply
  223. 223
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @No Drought No More: As others have said, if a hypothetical Pres. Ryan were to pardon Trump and Pence, then they could be compelled to testify since they would no longer have 5th amendment protections for the specific crimes they had to testify for, even if they were not being charged themselves

    ReplyReply
  224. 224
    MazeDancer says:

    @Bailey:

    Are there any examples of presidents pardoning members of their administration during their administration?

    Any time a legal scholar type talks about Presidential Pardon Power on TV they say stuff like “very broad”. It seems to be almost unlimited. Except they can’t pardon impeachment. And precedents would matter not to Trump. Jared will not suffer even a minute at Club Fed.

    However, Trump can only pardon Federal crimes.

    Anything AG Schneiderman decides to prosecute in NY – Jared does the time. And Manafort would be wise to start singing from his recently acquired Bridgehampton manse on which he paid no recorded mortgage tax.

    ReplyReply
  225. 225
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @germy: What a nutbag. An evil nutbag.

    ReplyReply
  226. 226
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule: That’s assuming they’re all crazy enough and not too cowardly to actually try anything.

    ReplyReply
  227. 227
    Heywood J. says:

    Clownstick stays until he becomes bad for business. If they think there’ll be a bloodbath in ’18 or ’20, or he’s shat the bed too much to get anything passed, Paulie and Mitchie (the Marmalard and Niedermeyer of the group) will engineer the coup themselves. I would look at the GA-6 election as a good barometer; if Ossoff wins by a fat enough margin, they’ll push Grampa Walnuts out the door by Labor Day.

    ReplyReply
  228. 228
    germy says:

    With the help of Washington-based consultants and Trump’s team, foreign officials have put together a tip sheet on how to keep the 70-year-old Trump happy. From the Times:

    Keep it short — no 30-minute monologue for a 30-second attention span. Do not assume he knows the history of the country or its major points of contention. Compliment him on his Electoral College victory. Contrast him favorably with President Barack Obama. Do not get hung up on whatever was said during the campaign. Stay in regular touch. Do not go in with a shopping list but bring some sort of deal he can call a victory.

    ReplyReply
  229. 229
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🌷 Martin:
    @mai naem mobile:

    You guys have way more faith in Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell than I do.

    ReplyReply
  230. 230
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Goku’s just using you to help him plot his post-apocalyptic novel. It’s kind of mean of him to lead you on like that.

    ReplyReply
  231. 231
    lamh36 says:

    Ya’ll Cheeto gonna “extend” this overseas trip..watch…lol.

    If we see Melania and the kid flying over to “spend time” with Cheeto…then we’ll know HE AIN’T COMING BACK…LOL

    https://68.media.tumblr.com/b8fa3cac97abb263a44d7b5908df1f11/tumblr_o0d2k8pXcR1u7qaaeo1_500.gif

    ReplyReply
  232. 232
    Bailey says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Any time a legal scholar type talks about Presidential Pardon Power on TV they say stuff like “very broad”. It seems to be almost unlimited. Except they can’t pardon impeachment. And precedents would matter not to Trump. Jared will not suffer even a minute at Club Fed.

    Oh, I agree that theoretically a president could pardon someone at any time–even people in their administration. I just can’t think off the top of my head anytime a president has pardoned someone from their administration during their administration. Ford comes closest, but Nixon was out by then and technically not in Ford’s administration anyway.

    However, Trump can only pardon Federal crimes.

    Anything AG Schneiderman decides to prosecute in NY – Jared does the time. And Manafort would be wise to start singing from his recently acquired Bridgehampton manse on which he paid no recorded mortgage tax.

    Not sure what Schneiderman is pursuing, but if its anything under the RICO statute, that would be federal and brought in federal court.

    ReplyReply
  233. 233
    Betty Cracker says:

    I’m all for pursuing the Trump-Russia investigation to the gates of hell. But I’d also like to see more attention on the corruption angle.

    ReplyReply
  234. 234
    randy khan says:

    Someone mentioned the Reuters/Ipsos poll earlier, which has Trump at his lowest approval rating since the inauguration. Some highlights:

    Overall: 38.4 approve, 55.9 disapprove overall (v. 41.5/53.3 last poll)
    Dem: 13.6 approve, 84.4 disapprove
    Rep: 75.2 approve, 23.1 disapprove (v. 82.2/16.1 last poll)
    Ind: 33 approve, 57 disapprove (v. 30/62 last poll)
    White male: 49.8 approve, 44.6 disapprove (v. 58.5/38.7 – a huge drop)

    The numbers that are most of interest are the Republicans and the white men. This is the first time he’s been below 80% approval among Republicans, and it’s almost a 9-point swing in two weeks among white men.

    Here’s a link to the gadget that lets you play with the numbers: Fun with polls

    ReplyReply
  235. 235
    Miss Bianca says:

    @germy: @MisterForkbeard:

    “Detained for seven years without charge … while my children grew up and my name was slandered,” Assange, who took refuge in the Ecuadorean embassy in London in 2012, wrote on Twitter

    “I do not forgive or forget,” he said.

    Why don’t you come on out of the embassy, Julie, and start swinging your big bad dick around then? Because I think you may find that there are others who are prepared not to “forgive and forget”, either.

    “Waaaarriorrrrs…come out and plaaayyyy…”

    ReplyReply
  236. 236
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    But he also never apologizes and never makes strategic withdrawals. His only plan is always the charge of the Fools Brigade.

    And that’s exactly the bluster he would use as he beats a hasty retreat in a cloud of squid ink. He has zero principles and will not stick to any plan that no longer serves his purposes.

    Even the people around him who’ve known him for decades are going to be shocked at how quickly and thoroughly he turns on them when it’s time to save his own hide. Including his own children.

    ReplyReply
  237. 237
    randy khan says:

    @Bailey:

    There’s probably a state RICO law, too. Everybody copied the federal law once they saw what they could do with it. Of course, New York can’t use its state law to go after federal (e.g., interstate) crimes.

    ReplyReply
  238. 238
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey:

    Not sure what Schneiderman is pursuing, but if its anything under the RICO statute, that would be federal and brought in federal court.

    It would look real bad. The optics of pardoning your son in law would tear this administration down even faster

    ReplyReply
  239. 239
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Vaughn Sterling‏Verified account @ vplus 17m17 minutes ago
    CNN BREAKING: Sources: White House lawyers research impeachment

    @randy khan: I see those numbers and I wonder, among other things, what’s happening with party affiliation, are fewer people calling themselves Republican

    ReplyReply
  240. 240
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    That’s assuming they’re all crazy enough and not too cowardly to actually try anything.

    It doesn’t take a lot of courage to murder mailmen in their trucks when they’re not expecting it. Or a thousand other ways to make people afraid to do their jobs. Remember the Washington sniper. Then expand that by just a couple dozen or even a couple hundred in the same state and you begin to see the problem.

    ReplyReply
  241. 241

    @Raoul: As Kay always says, everyone and everything Trump touches turns to shit.

    ReplyReply
  242. 242
    Mnemosyne says:

    @germy:

    Another narcissist on parade.

    ReplyReply
  243. 243
    Shalimar says:

    @TenguPhule: @TenguPhule: Does he actually have his own personal security force? I read that too, but the only thing I have seen confirmed is that Schiller (Trump’s long-time head of security) was made a White House Aide so he could continue to serve as Trump’s personal bodyguard. To me, that suggests that the personal security force would have to be very small if it still exists, since they would have to be Aides too to be allowed in the building every day.

    ReplyReply
  244. 244
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And that’s exactly the bluster he would use as he beats a hasty retreat in a cloud of squid ink. He has zero principles and will not stick to any plan that no longer serves his purposes.

    So you think its going to be the Rincewind scenario? Not retreating to, but just retreating from?

    ReplyReply
  245. 245
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’ll admit he’s given me some ideas, but my original hypothetical was completely innocent. Scout’s honor 😇

    ReplyReply
  246. 246
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    We’re speculating on a hypothetical brought up by Goku.

    You don’t need anybody else’s hypotheticals. Don’t go blaming somebody else for you bloodthirstiness.

    ReplyReply
  247. 247
    trollhattan says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Since you’re in the neighborhood, I have a theory the Centre is developing Henry as an agent unbeknownst to the parents. Sudden brilliance at school, mysterious “girlfriend”, desire to transfer to an out-of-state prep school…. Remember Jared from season 2?

    ReplyReply
  248. 248
    TenguPhule says:

    @Shalimar: WP, FYNYT, Guardian and FYWSJ have all mentioned it. Again, nobody has done any actual reporting work on exactly how big that private security force is. I assume at this point that at a minimum it must employed for all his real estate ventures.

    ReplyReply
  249. 249
    🌷 Martin says:

    @Mnemosyne: I have faith in Ryan and McConnell’s desire to stay in power over ensuring that Trump is able to. These guys are barely holding onto power as it is. Granted, they are squeezing every ounce out of it that they can, but the backlash here could be significant.

    ReplyReply
  250. 250
    efgoldman says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    I’m not sure whether Republicans would want to go after him tooth and nail to prove they’re “different” from Trump

    If he’s out of office, it’s strictly up to prosecutors and grand juries, since impeachment no longer applies.

    ReplyReply
  251. 251
    lamh36 says:

    I can def believe it’s Jared that Trump is trying to save from the FBI investigation…we all know his creepy devotion to Ivanka…so there is NO way he’ll let her “loving” husband be sent to prison

    ReplyReply
  252. 252
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne: I am honestly just doing some speculating on his hypothetical by thinking about it and playing out mentally how it could run out.

    To be honest, I don’t think Trump is gonna live long enough to try to seize power for a third term, so I hadn’t thought of the scenario that Goku brought up till now.

    ReplyReply
  253. 253
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    You don’t need anybody else’s hypotheticals.

    John McCain, is that you?

    ReplyReply
  254. 254
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    It would look real bad. The optics of pardoning your son in law would tear this administration down even faster

    Agreed, theoretically. I used to think inviting Russians spies into the Oval Office and giving them top secret information in a bragging fit looked real bad, too, but Trump voters and GOP in general seem not to care too much. So what do I know?

    ReplyReply
  255. 255
    different-church-lady says:

    Tasty:

    Sources: White House lawyers research impeachment

    ReplyReply
  256. 256
    germy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Independence Party of America

    For republicans who wish to not put that word on their campaign mailers

    ReplyReply
  257. 257
    Mnemosyne says:

    @trollhattan:

    Is that The Americans? It’s sad how far behind I am on that show.

    I just hope it goes long enough that the characters end up sitting in their US living room watching the Berlin Wall fall. I’ve always assumed that’s going to be the end point of the series.

    ReplyReply
  258. 258
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Open thread, so. Dog rescue bleg.

    2 dogs in the Lumberton, NC area. They are both 2.5yrs old. Mia, the labradoodle is extremely timid. She was rescued by her current mom from an abusive home – children being the abusers. She is incredibly attached to Max and cannot be separated from him. Their mom is beside herself, she is having to move for a job and unable to take them.

    ReplyReply
  259. 259
    TenguPhule says:

    @Bailey:

    So what do I know?

    And I apologize for labeling you a troll.

    ReplyReply
  260. 260
    BBA says:

    In another forum I read, there are nihilist pro-Trumpites picking apart every last word of what Trump said, because his unusual sentence structure means he never actually admits firing Comey over Russia. He just blurted out disconnected fragments – the whole Russia thing was a mess, Comey is a nut job, it’s taken care of now – with nothing to link them together but the listener’s imagination. This is actually enough to convince them, nihilists that they are.

    I was young in the ’90s, and not really connected to any political community, so I call on my elders to tell me – did Democrats buy Clinton when he said it depends on what “is” is?

    ReplyReply
  261. 261
    different-church-lady says:

    @germy:

    I do not forgive or forget ever shut the fuck up.

    ReplyReply
  262. 262
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I see that the young man who was accused of making a bomb lost his federal discrimination complaint against the school. Of course, Rightwingers are celebrating this as a victory for reasons.

    ReplyReply
  263. 263
    efgoldman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Pondering a hypothetical situation here

    Yeah, that’s how sociopaths avoid blame.
    Haven’t watched cable news in so long I can’t remember when

    ReplyReply
  264. 264
    randy khan says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I see those numbers and I wonder, among other things, what’s happening with party affiliation, are fewer people calling themselves Republican

    It’s hard to tell from the poll, which looks like it normalizes the sample to a specified percentage of Republicans each week (which is standard practice to make week-to-week results comparable). For what it’s worth, the actual number of Republicans in the poll looked to be within the range for the last few months.

    ReplyReply
  265. 265
    TenguPhule says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    In his ruling, Lindsay dismissed claims against the city and the school district, writing that the court could not “reasonably infer that any IISD employee intentionally discriminated against [Mohamed] based on his race or religion.”

    He also dismissed the claim against Cummings, the principal, who Mohamed’s team said violated his civil rights and treated the boy unfairly. Lindsay wrote the plaintiff’s complaint “does not allege that [Cummings] treated [Mohamed] differently than other similarly situated students, and that the unequal treatment was based on religion or race.”

    That is some impressive ostrich impressions by Lindsay.

    ReplyReply
  266. 266
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @different-church-lady: Them darn shoes just keep on dropping.

    ReplyReply
  267. 267
    debbie says:

    @lamh36:

    The Independent agrees with you.

    ReplyReply
  268. 268
    different-church-lady says:

    @BBA:

    He just blurted out disconnected fragments

    THAT’S WHAT WE’VE BEEN TELLING YOU ALL ALONG YOU DUMBSHITS!!!

    ReplyReply
  269. 269
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @TenguPhule: Premature apology.

    ReplyReply
  270. 270
    TenguPhule says:

    @efgoldman:

    Yeah, that’s how sociopaths avoid blame.

    Typical WH 40K Session.

    efgoldman: “Stop pretending that its only a game! I know you kids are plotting to kill me in my sleep!”

    ReplyReply
  271. 271
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey:

    Trump voters and GOP in general seem not to care too much. So what do I know?

    The GOP may be in power currently and Trump voters dense as hell, but they’re not the majority. We are. This would be one more straw added to the camel’s back. Eventually it’s going to break.

    This incompetent government can’t go on forever. There will come a disaster, natural or human-created, and Trump’s incompetence will get many killed. Imagine thousands of Americans dead as a result. It’ll definitely come crashing down then

    ReplyReply
  272. 272
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @BBA: I think everyone knew (or at least, my recollection of it as a teenager was) that it was a silly legal dodge.

    ReplyReply
  273. 273
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Brachiator:

    Again, I would put down real money on this.

    I really want to take you up on this, but I feel like guessing at what Trump is going to do is beyond my prediction talents, which honestly I have lost faith in since Nov. 2016.

    ReplyReply
  274. 274
    TenguPhule says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not here. He’s been behaving in a civilized fashion.

    ReplyReply
  275. 275
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BBA:

    In another forum I read, there are nihilist pro-Trumpites picking apart every last word of what Trump said, because his unusual sentence structure means he never actually admits firing Comey over Russia. He just blurted out disconnected fragments – the whole Russia thing was a mess, Comey is a nut job, it’s taken care of now – with nothing to link them together but the listener’s imagination. This is actually enough to convince them, nihilists that they are.

    I’m not in the mood to Google for them now, but there are whole articles about how Trump’s sentence structure is designed to let people read their own interpretations into things while leaving it ambiguous enough that he has plausible deniability. It’s a deliberate strategy and they’re falling into his trap.

    Bill’s “definition of ‘is'” thing was a lawyerly evasion and argument about the meaning of a legal phrase with the opposing counsel during a deposition, so not the same thing. He never actually said it in public.

    ReplyReply
  276. 276
    TenguPhule says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Imagine thousands of Americans dead as a result. It’ll definitely come crashing down then

    Republicans still blame Obama for Hurricane Katrina and losing Iraq.

    Take a moment to let that sink in.

    ReplyReply
  277. 277
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @TenguPhule: @TenguPhule: Hmmm mmm. I hope he appeals. I see from the article that he’s moving to Qatar. What a shame. I fear that he’s gotten his fair share of death threats since that unfortunate incident.

    ReplyReply
  278. 278
    zhena gogolia says:

    I just want to go on record here: I’m a Russophile.

    I’m a Putinophobe.

    ReplyReply
  279. 279
    SatanicPanic says:

    @BBA:

    I was young in the ’90s, and not really connected to any political community, so I call on my elders to tell me – did Democrats buy Clinton when he said it depends on what “is” is?

    No. And I don’t think anyone in the world bought that. We just thought it didn’t matter.

    ReplyReply
  280. 280
    TenguPhule says:

    @zhena gogolia: Like Russia, hate its government. Same with Israel.

    ReplyReply
  281. 281
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Corner Stone: At this point, Ivanka’s pony might be the only Trump who doesn’t need a pardon.

    ReplyReply
  282. 282
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    He just hasn’t gotten his talking points from Moscow yet. It’s pretty late at night there.

    ReplyReply
  283. 283
    debbie says:

    Jennifer Rubin is unamused:

    Trump’s reaction to the special prosecutor announcement is typical of his lack of comprehension and support of American values and democratic institutions. He bellyaches, “I believe it hurts our country terribly, because it shows we’re a divided, mixed-up, not-unified country.” (Trump routinely confuses what is good for the country and what is good for him, as one would expect of a raging narcissist.) Actually, we are seeing the greatness of America in the operation of the rule of law, with the enlistment of a respected special prosecutor, appointed by his own deputy attorney general. And the notion that the country was unified before Robert Mueller appeared on the scene is daft, even for Trump. (Trump could, of course, fire Mueller if he thought Mueller’s work was endangering the country. It didn’t work out well for Richard Nixon, but Trump might not remember that, given his shaky grasp of American history.)

    ReplyReply
  284. 284
    debbie says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    How anyone, knowing his history, could be a fan of Putin is beyond me.

    ReplyReply
  285. 285
    TenguPhule says:

    @debbie: I do find it charming how she still thinks anyone in the Republican party is not corrupted to treason.

    ReplyReply
  286. 286
    lamh36 says:

    I can also believe that Banner or Priebus or even KellyAnne Conway are the ones doing all the leaking, esp about Jared being under investigation.

    All three have reason to hate Jared either directly or as proxy for Ivanka…an their influences on Cheeto

    IMHO…

    ReplyReply
  287. 287
    randy khan says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Bill’s “definition of ‘is’” thing was a lawyerly evasion and argument about the meaning of a legal phrase with the opposing counsel during a deposition, so not the same thing. He never actually said it in public.

    My recollection is that Clinton was asked a question along the lines of “Is there an affair?” and the context of his statement was about whether it was ongoing or not. As you say, it was a lawyerly evasion.

    ReplyReply
  288. 288
    TenguPhule says:

    @Lurking Canadian: At this point, given the principles involved, the Horse might actually be the true mastermind behind this whole mess.

    ReplyReply
  289. 289
    Bailey says:

    Jim Comey’s agreed to testify in open hearings after Memorial Day. So that will be interesting.

    ReplyReply
  290. 290
    trollhattan says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yup, it’s been a season of a great many loose-end tyings.

    ReplyReply
  291. 291
    Yutsano says:

    @JPL:

    Can’t remember who, but it was stated that they were also looking at someone on the transition team while in Congress. That could be Sessions

    Clapper apparently said it in one of the closed sessions.

    ReplyReply
  292. 292
    zhena gogolia says:

    @randy khan:

    I recall him saying it on teevee. But maybe that was the “that woman, Ms. Lewinsky” moment. At that moment I was like, oh, Bill, pleeeze!

    ReplyReply
  293. 293
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Like Russia, hate its government. Same with Israel.

    Same with the USA, for that matter.

    (By “government” here, I mean “current administration.” The basic tenets as set out in the Constitution are pretty good. Could stand to be tweaked a tad, but basically solid.)

    ReplyReply
  294. 294

    @TenguPhule: many kinds of troll behave in a civilized fashion. They still come in and wreck and derail threads.

    ReplyReply
  295. 295
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia: It was a video taped deposition.

    ReplyReply
  296. 296
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t want to go all John McCain, but I think it’s more of a tactic than a strategy. I don’t think Trump does strategy.

    ReplyReply
  297. 297
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Bailey:

    Must See Tee-Vee.

    ReplyReply
  298. 298
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @randy khan:

    My recollection is that Clinton was asked a question along the lines of “Is there an affair?” and the context of his statement was about whether it was ongoing or not. As you say, it was a lawyerly evasion.

    That is correct. He was saying there was one but it is now over while trying not to say those words. As someone only a year or so out of law school at the time, I thought it was clever. Unfortunately, it played into the Slick Willie stereotype the GOP was promulgating. There probably was no good answer to the question.

    ReplyReply
  299. 299
    LAO says:

    @randy khan: It’s called Enterprise Corruption in ny state.

    ReplyReply
  300. 300
    lamh36 says:

    Welp… Comey agrees to testify in PUBLIC before Senate Intel Committee!

    ReplyReply
  301. 301
    jacy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I would add that narcissists definitely do retreat. It’s something they do all the time. They will remove themselves from a situation that threatens their hidden self. They will create a new reality that makes the retreat possible. They will do literally ANYTHING not to feel pain.

    ReplyReply
  302. 302
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    Most likely. It’s exactly the kind of bullshit patter a real estate developer uses to get his marks to sign up by implying that all kinds of great things are in the deal without actually saying they’re there and putting himself legally on the hook for fraud.

    ReplyReply
  303. 303
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: I wonder if Trump will try to executive privilege his ass.

    ReplyReply
  304. 304
    Bailey says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    No. And I don’t think anyone in the world bought that. We just thought it didn’t matter.

    I can’t remember if, by that point, it was obvious that Whitewater was a complete bust. With respect to the “is” controversy, I agree that no one bought. Dems didn’t care as much about Monica Lewinsky in general as a legal concern, but I don’t recall people running around and defending Clinton lying under testimony even if he was lying about something totally inconsequential to Whitewater itself.

    ReplyReply
  305. 305
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m inclined to think its a blind spot rather then trolling. Certain subjects set all of us off.

    ReplyReply
  306. 306
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    I don’t think Trump does strategy.

    Shit, I don’t think he even does strategery.

    ReplyReply
  307. 307
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: Gonna need a bigger executive.

    ReplyReply
  308. 308

    @TenguPhule: no, this one’s a troll.

    ReplyReply
  309. 309
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jacy:

    Yep. They retreat while insisting the entire time that they’re not retreating, and if you say they’re retreating, you’re a liar. While they continue to retreat the whole time.

    ReplyReply
  310. 310
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ll defer to your greater experience with this one.

    ReplyReply
  311. 311
    hueyplong says:

    I agree with the majority that it’s Jared and find that Schadenfreudelicious, but I hope it’s Priebus, because that would mean that the party is in trouble. If it were Priebus, we’d see some panic pretty quickly.

    ReplyReply
  312. 312
    efgoldman says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    This incompetent government can’t go on forever. There will come a disaster, natural or human-created, and Trump’s incompetence will get many killed.

    His maladministration has already ignored requests for disaster relief in states he carried.

    ReplyReply
  313. 313
    JMG says:

    Matt Miller, the former DOJ spokesman under Obama, made the point that if Comey’s appearance before Congress is postponed or canceled, that’d mean Mueller thinks he is a potential witness in a criminal case.

    ReplyReply
  314. 314
    Ian says:

    @D58826:
    Only once. To the pig people, it will never be heard. They will think he was taken down by a big ‘liberal conspiracy’. How I wish we had more or any of those,

    ReplyReply
  315. 315
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @lamh36: I don’t expect this to be too explosive. Comey is going to be very limited in what he can talk about, and his own sense of propriety will keep him from attacking Trump too much. Though I suppose may not take into account Trump calling him a nutjob.

    ReplyReply
  316. 316
    lamh36 says:

    @thehill
    Ryan warns about possibility of more leaked audio from House leadership meetings http://hill.cm/wKRtilW

    ReplyReply
  317. 317
    Elie says:

    @Yutsano:

    Oh PLEEZ PLEEZ PLEEZ — I would LOVE it if it were Sessions! As much as I hate Trump and Pence, it is just by a fine line that I reserve for Sessions — the bigoted, evil, gnome. Do we dare hope as he goes about trying to destroy justice for black and brown people and most of all, suppressing our votes.

    ReplyReply
  318. 318
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    Whitewater was a complete bust because it became obvious once the actual fraud trials started that the Clintons had been victims of the con and the con artist had tried to implicate them to save his own ass.

    It would be nice if you could figure out what the lesson there about the Clintons should have been, but you never will.

    ReplyReply
  319. 319
    trollhattan says:

    For anybody who can use a laugh, TBogg is on the Twitters.

    ReplyReply
  320. 320
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: Hahahaha. Goose, meet gander.

    ReplyReply
  321. 321
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Depends on what is is.

    ReplyReply
  322. 322
    Elie says:

    @lamh36:

    Heh, heh, hek — folks who care are trying to take care of the republic. These good people know what is at stake….

    ReplyReply
  323. 323
    JMG says:

    @MisterForkbeard: He will be asked directly if Trump asked him to drop the Flynn investigation. Hard to be circumspect to a yes or no question. If he says yes, that’s sworn testimony Trump tried to obstruct justice. I think that’d made news.

    ReplyReply
  324. 324
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Wouldn’t that look too obvious, even to him?

    ReplyReply
  325. 325
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I don’t know if it was a quote or reported by “a source close to Mr Comey”, but somebody said the other day he said he didn’t write memos about his meetings with Obama because he didn’t feel he had to. THat’ll send Twitler into a tweetstorum.

    ReplyReply
  326. 326
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Who can tell?

    ReplyReply
  327. 327
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: Why do you think Baud can understand what Trump thinks?

    Oh, yeah, never mind.

    ReplyReply
  328. 328
    TenguPhule says:

    “Global Warming is a Hoax” should be carved on humanity’s tombstone

    It was designed as an impregnable deep-freeze to protect the world’s most precious seeds from any global disaster and ensure humanity’s food supply forever. But the Global Seed Vault, buried in a mountain deep inside the Arctic circle, has been breached after global warming produced extraordinary temperatures over the winter, sending meltwater gushing into the entrance tunnel.

    The vault is on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen and contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop. When it was opened in 2008, the deep permafrost through which the vault was sunk was expected to provide “failsafe” protection against “the challenge of natural or man-made disasters”.

    But soaring temperatures in the Arctic at the end of the world’s hottest ever recorded year led to melting and heavy rain, when light snow should have been falling. “It was not in our plans to think that the permafrost would not be there and that it would experience extreme weather like that,” said Hege Njaa Aschim, from the Norwegian government, which owns the vault.

    Soylent Trump, here we come.

    ReplyReply
  329. 329
    p.a. says:

    I wonder how much of Trump’s financial troubles over the years have been due, not to his own obvious stupidity, but to his underlings realizing he’s a dope and fleecing him from within? Can’t imagine in a million years he actually inspires loyalty in anyone outside the 27%-ers.

    ReplyReply
  330. 330
    Elie says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    He may have a flare for throwing down shade without being too direct, but allowing us all to read between the lines. Yummmmm… I don’t think he is gonna let the Trumpanzee come inside on him without a little brush back… GAWD — Trump is soooo stupid… doesn’t he know he is offending more than Comey, but the whole FBI????

    ReplyReply
  331. 331
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: @lamh36: I wonder if Trump will try to executive privilege his ass.

    if he hears the phrase from somebody, you can picture the next hate rally. “There’s a thing called “executive… privilege”… you’ve heard of that? it’s an incredible thing, one of our most sacred…. legal…things.. for the President. James Comey /boo!/ who many people have said is crazy, a nutcase, they say, James Comey /boooo!/ who protected crooked Hillary /boooo!/ has violated [very careful enunciation] executive…. privilege. It’s not gonna end well for him, folks, very bad, very bad. Unconstitutional” et cetera, et cetera.

    ReplyReply
  332. 332
    Daddio7 says:

    I finally realized what all this get Trump mania reminds me of. Remember those Bugs Bunny cartoons with the fox hounds. About fifty of them charge after him in swirling, barking mass. Every few seconds one will temporarily pop out of the mass only to be pulled back in. Bugs leads them through hollow logs and off cliffs into the river. All these news hounds howling after Trump are just like that. I imagine Trump will leave them soaking wet too.

    ReplyReply
  333. 333
    TenguPhule says:

    @Daddio7:

    I imagine Trump will leave them soaking wet too.

    Unfortunately for you and Trump, he’s Daffy Duck. And he’s peering down the wrong end of his shotgun, wondering why it didn’t go off.

    ReplyReply
  334. 334
    Bailey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Whitewater was a complete bust because it became obvious once the actual fraud trials started that the Clintons had been victims of the con and the con artist had tried to implicate them to save his own ass.

    It would be nice if you could figure out what the lesson there about the Clintons should have been, but you never will.

    it would be nice if at some point you would learn to read.

    I don’t need any lessons on what the result of Whitewater was, I said I just couldn’t remember if the public realized it was a bust at the time of the “it depends what the definition of is is” which was the topic of the conversation.

    Please try to keep up. I realize you’re slow, but try.

    ReplyReply
  335. 335
    Corner Stone says:

    @TenguPhule: Shit. I thought you were being sarcastic.

    ReplyReply
  336. 336
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think it’s pretty possible he’ll just say “I can’t talk about that private meeting with the President.” and try to leave it at that.

    Alternately, totally possible he’ll give an answer which means that Trump did it, but that could be interpreted the other way – that would be helpful to Republicans. Something like “The President asked me if we could leave it alone. I can’t say whether that means he tried to interfere or not.” “I can’t speculate as to whether or not that was a threat.”, etc.

    ReplyReply
  337. 337
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bailey: The bit of “the public” you refer to could not find its own ass if you spotted it both hands, so I’m not sure what point you think you’re making.

    ReplyReply
  338. 338
    Gravenstone says:

    @Daddio7: Oh look guys. I think we have a new chew toy!

    ReplyReply
  339. 339
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    I don’t need any lessons on what the result of Whitewater was, I said I just couldn’t remember if the public realized it was a bust at the time of the “it depends what the definition of is is” which was the topic of the conversation.

    And the result of the Whitewater investigation was? In your own words.

    Here, you can copy and paste mine: Bill and Hillary Clinton were innocent of all of the Whitewater allegations. The allegations were 100 percent fiction.

    ReplyReply
  340. 340
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @different-church-lady: I’d even spot them a compass.

    ReplyReply
  341. 341
    Mnemosyne says:

    @different-church-lady:

    He still thinks Hillary Clinton committed a crime when she set up a private email server and she just managed to not be indicted for it.

    No, seriously. He actually believes this.

    ReplyReply
  342. 342
    Bailey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And the result of the Whitewater investigation was? In your own words.

    Here, you can copy and paste mine: Bill and Hillary Clinton were innocent of all of the Whitewater allegations. The allegations were 100 percent fiction.

    Holy fuck, you are really dumb and frequently miss the point.

    I agree that Whitewater was nothing. But that wasn’t the point of my comment at all, nor is my opinion (now or then) reflective of what the American people thought at the time. Please keep working that bone like a dog, though. It’s amusing to watch you spin yourself into an impotent rage.

    ReplyReply
  343. 343
    eclare says:

    @trollhattan: LOL, I needed that!

    ReplyReply
  344. 344
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Daddio7: Fuck off fascist

    ReplyReply
  345. 345
    Bailey says:

    @different-church-lady:

    The bit of “the public” you refer to could not find its own ass if you spotted it both hands, so I’m not sure what point you think you’re making.

    So what is your point? That the public can be dumb and easily led? Why would I argue about that?

    Someone will need to explain to me why it is outrageous to point out that a significant portion of the public at a period of time actually and honestly thought there might have been something to the Whitewater “scandal.” (A smaller portion probably thinks there still is.) The longer it dragged on, the more public opinion shifted. Again, why is this scandalous to point out?

    ReplyReply
  346. 346
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey:

    Holy fuck, you are really dumb

    That’s uncalled for

    ReplyReply
  347. 347
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: “a compass”. Seriously?

    ReplyReply
  348. 348
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey: Probably because of your concern trolly tone. Its obvious people don’t like you here. You should go find friendlier pastures

    ReplyReply
  349. 349
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    That’s uncalled for

    Not really.

    And since I’ve been called far worse, I’m going to not lose any sleep about calling someone dumb who consistently follows me around, making erroneous arguments, and drawing bullshit conclusions.

    ReplyReply
  350. 350
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Corner Stone: Yep, two hands and a compass.

    ReplyReply
  351. 351
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    I agree that Whitewater was nothing.

    Except that it wasn’t “nothing.” It was the hard work of a vast right-wing conspiracy that put the Clintons under a cloud of suspicion after they were the victims of a financial fraud.

    That same right-wing conspiracy has now convinced you that a crime was committed when Hillary set up her email server, and 20 years from now, you’ll finally dismiss that as “nothing” and insist that the newest Clinton Foundation “crime” is the real deal that’s finally going to send Chelsea to jail.

    Because you really are that gullible, and if you’ve been that gullible for 20 years, you ain’t gonna change. Don’t get into any games of three-card monte, because the guy you just saw win is in on the con, unlike you.

    ReplyReply
  352. 352
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Probably because of your concern trolly tone. Its obvious people don’t like you here. You should go find friendlier pastures

    I’m okay with my pastures, thanks.

    Now I’m just kind of amused at the reactive thinking of the so-called “realism” party who are unable to assimilate some basic historical information without losing their minds.

    ReplyReply
  353. 353
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Nah, let his words stand for themselves. The guy who thinks that Hillary Clinton committed a crime when she set up her email server thinks I’m the dumb one.

    ReplyReply
  354. 354
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey: “Follows” you around? LAMFAO!

    ReplyReply
  355. 355
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey: I wish Adam would have left you banned. I still remember that insult about my tastes in music

    ReplyReply
  356. 356
    Jinchi says:

    The senior White House adviser under scrutiny by investigators is someone close to the president

    Well that pretty much rounds it down to Jared or Ivanka.

    ReplyReply
  357. 357
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷: Did you speak out in favor of Creed or Nickelback? Did you confuse Soft Cell and The Clash?

    ReplyReply
  358. 358
    vhh says:

    @Raoul: Jared for sure by virtue of lineage, and his wife by virtue of both marriage and conversion.

    ReplyReply
  359. 359
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    I wish Adam would have left you banned. I still remember that insult about my tastes in music

    Offspring? Yeah, that’s terrible.

    ReplyReply
  360. 360
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Well, clearly by making multiple posts starting an hour before his first post, I was following him. Logic!

    I hope to God this dipshit isn’t an actual lawyer, because if he is, his poor clients are getting screwed.

    ReplyReply
  361. 361
    Jinchi says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Trump will have written Jared’s pardons and a blanket pre-pardon for future events by the time Air Force 1 lands.

    I wouldn’t put it past Trump to give blanket pardons to everyone working at the White House, not realizing that it means they can no longer take the 5th if they are called as witnesses in a case against him.

    ReplyReply
  362. 362
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Follows” you around? LAMFAO!

    You’re right. Better, more precise, wording would be: consistently fixates on minor part of a comment, distorting it beyond all recognition, creating own straw man arguments while losing the plot entirely.

    ReplyReply
  363. 363
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    They may have helped put themselves under suspicion when they didn’t file their taxes properly.

    And why did Hillary wear that short skirt when she did it, huh?

    And to be fair, it’s not as if their business partners didn’t go to prison.

    Turns out, that’s what happens when one set of business partners defrauds the other set of business partners: the people who actually committed the crime are the ones who go to prison, not the ones who were the victims of the crime. I saw it on “Law and Order,” which means I have more legal training than you seem to have had.

    Huh? Where did I say I was convinced it was a crime?

    Yes, you’re continuing your vehement argument that a federal prosecutor could easily have indicted Hillary Clinton over her emails because you think it’s not true. Good one.

    What she did was certainly against State Dept. policy. That is undisputed.

    It’s also not a crime. And, as a reminder, not fulfilling an FOIA request is not a crime, either, despite what your right-wing friends told you.

    By federal statute, I noted that another prosecutor may have made a case against her. This, again, is not a controversial thought.

    Since this is exactly the point under dispute that multiple people have been arguing with you about, it’s hilarious for you to claim it’s “not a controversial thought.”

    It’s not a controversial thought in the right-wing swamps where you spend your time. It is very much a controversial thought in the real world, which is why — wait for it — we’re having this argument at all.

    But I do love how you try to hand-wave away the crux of the ongoing argument as “not a controversial thought.” The Twin Towers collapsed because Bush ordered a missile strike on them — this is not a controversial thought!

    The Clintons are perfect.

    No one — including me — has ever argued that. What I have argued is that they are not criminals, and never have been. And yet dipshits like you will be scanning every gesture and look and action of theirs for the next 20 years and beyond to find the crime that you just know they committed, you just have to find it.

    Newsflash: the Clintons have not committed any crimes. Not 20 years ago, and not now. But I realize you are incapable of wrapping your head around that reality.

    ReplyReply
  364. 364
    Tokyokie says:

    @No Drought No More: I don’t think Trump will pardon anybody, because he doesn’t do nothing for nobody. He demands absolute loyalty, offers none in return. My guess is that Ivanka is going to have to choose between saving her inheritance and saving her ass, and I figure she’ll side with her ass.

    ReplyReply
  365. 365
    Jinchi says:

    @BBA:

    I was young in the ’90s, and not really connected to any political community, so I call on my elders to tell me – did Democrats buy Clinton when he said it depends on what “is” is?

    No. They thought he was trying to cover up an affair, but didn’t think that was a crime worth impeaching him. They rightfully assumed that the Republicans pretending shock at his actions were hypocrites.

    Henry Hyde, Helen Chenoweth, and Dan Burton were exposed as adulterers by Larry Flynt, as was Bob Livingston, a moral scold who was selected to replace outgoing Newt Gingrich as Speaker. Livingston decided to quit before he ever took the Speaker’s gavel and another moral scold, David Vitter (now famous for his relations with prostitutes), was elected to his seat. Dennis Hastert (now serving time as a serial child molester) became Speaker instead.

    Later we learned that Gingrich was also having an affair with an aide during the impeachment proceedings. In comparison, Clinton didn’t seem so bad.

    ReplyReply
  366. 366
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Tokyokie:

    I figure she’ll side with her ass.

    So she’ll stay with her dad?

    ReplyReply
  367. 367

    @zhena gogolia: I was in my car with the radio on and Bill said, “I did not have sex with that woman.” I burst out laughing.

    ReplyReply
  368. 368
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    It is not a controversial thought outside of this blog.

    You’ve done a survey of the nation’s prosecutors, I gather?

    Awesome. Now we’ve reached the point where it’s time for you to put up or shut up. Provide links to the prosecutors who have published op-eds saying that they would have prosecuted Hillary Clinton for her email server.

    However, the prosecutors quoted must be currently serving prosecutors — not, say, Rudy Giuliani or Chris Christie pretending to be “objective” — and the op-eds need to have appeared in a mainstream media outlet — no links to Breitbart, Red State, or any other organs of the vast right-wing media conspiracy.

    We’ll wait here for you to prove that your claim is as uncontroversial as you say and is supported by at least, let’s say, three federal prosecutors writing in mainstream publications. Go!

    ReplyReply
  369. 369
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    Question: do you think it’s indisputable that Bill Clinton has never sexually harassed or even sexually assaulted anyone? I mean, I don’t know how you could know that for sure, but I’m just wondering what you think of the potential?

    Hey, I’m not the one desperately thrashing trying to prove the Clintons are criminals despite the fact that both their personal and private lives have been under a microscope for over 20 years. You are.

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but at some point, you have to admit that the chicken you’ve been fucking is dead. What is that point going to be for you? When we’ve gone another 10 years without any credible allegations? 20 years? Will you go to your grave convinced that the Clntons totally committed crimes while under a spotlight and they just magically never got caught?

    I go with Occam’s Razor: after 20 years of microscopic scrutiny, the simplest explanation is that the crimes you’re searching for evidence of never actually happened. If any credible evidence ever surfaces, I’ll change my mind, but I feel pretty confident at this point that none ever will.

    ReplyReply
  370. 370
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: oh, noes! I wish I could take them. However, I simply couldn’t justify adding two more dogs to my menage right now. Hope they find a good home!

    ETA: Would it help if I contacted my friend the Labradoodle breeder, to find out if there’s such a thing as a labradoodle rescue group down there who would take both of them?

    ReplyReply
  371. 371
    Miss Bianca says:

    @trollhattan: Very late to the party, but *I* needed that laugh, thankee!

    ReplyReply
  372. 372
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published late Sunday night …

    This is why you fail.

    And, really, you give me George W. Bush’s guy writing in the Wall Street Journal as an unbiased source?

    FAIL.

    Sounds like your homework, not mine.

    Which one of us is claiming that there’s an unnamed “sea of prosecutors” who are tugging at the bit to indict Hillary Clinton? It doesn’t seem to be me.

    ReplyReply
  373. 373
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    Dude, Mukasey is Rudy Giuliani’s law partner. He worked under Giuliani as a prosecutor. He’s been involved in Giuliani’s shit for over 20 years.

    But, yeah, I’m sure he wrote that op-ed for the Wall Street Journal out of a completely unbiased love for the law and not at Rudy’s bidding.

    Again, this is why you fail: you don’t bother to look at who people are before you cite them as sources, and then you throw a hissy fit when it turns out your source is Rudy Giuliani’s law partner.

    ReplyReply
  374. 374
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey: You Wouldn’t know good music if it crawled out of your ass. I’m more of a Dead Kennedys fan anyway

    ReplyReply
  375. 375
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne: Ah. Yes. Okay.

    Bailey, here’s a clue: IT’S ON YOUR BACKSIDE.

    ReplyReply
  376. 376
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bailey: WHY IS SEALIONING SO OBJECTIONABLE? I AM MERELY ASKING THIS QUESTION!

    ReplyReply
  377. 377
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bailey:

    And since I’ve been called far worse…

    Y’know, it’s funny: if I had that experience I’d be wondering what I was doing wrong.

    ReplyReply
  378. 378
    different-church-lady says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Did you confuse Soft Cell and The Clash?

    How is that even possible?

    ReplyReply
  379. 379
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    But it reiterates my point that there are many prosecutors who would have a different tack on this case and reading of the statute.

    So, just to be clear, you think the fact that you found a lifelong Republican hack to parrot the Republican Party line proves that there are “many prosecutors” who disagreed with Comey?

    By the way, Mukasey became W’s attorney general after Alberto Gonzales was forced to resign in disgrace after the US Attorneys firing scandal became public. But, sure, Mukasey wrote that op-ed in a pure spirit of his love for the law and not out of partisanship. And the fact that he wrote it for the paper that was pushing Juanita Broaddrick’s looney rape claims against Bill Clinton is just a coincidence.

    Weird how all of these coincidences just happen to stack up against the Clintons. Well, it’s their own fault for being criminals, I guess. The Republicans wouldn’t pursue them for 20+ years unless they had a good reason, right?

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  380. 380
    Mnemosyne says:

    @different-church-lady:

    My favorite part is where he mistakes my hysterical fits of laughter for a hissy fit.

    OMG, this is like having Melissa McCarthy in my living room personally doing her Sean Spicer imitation just for me.

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  381. 381
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey: No. I was too busy having a life away from a blog I sometimes comment on, and was curious so I decided to check on what a train wreck this thread had turned into; thanks to you

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  382. 382
    different-church-lady says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷: You once purchased a Celine Dion CD, didn’t you?

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  383. 383
    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @different-church-lady: No. But Celine Dion wasn’t that bad. Just overrated and overwrought @Bailey:
    Sometimes on a blog people like to share things they like. A concept foreign to a dull, plodding, pedantic person like you

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    🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷 says:

    @Bailey:

    The Clintons are perfect.

    Didn’t your mother ever teach you not to lie?

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  385. 385
    randy khan says:

    Note to self: Don’t ever respond to Bailey.

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  386. 386
    Bailey says:

    @🌎 🇺🇸 Goku 🗳 🌷:

    Sometimes on a blog people like to share things they like. A concept foreign to a dull, plodding, pedantic person like you

    I like to share how lame a band Offspring is.

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  387. 387
    Retr2327 says:

    @The Fat Kate Middleton: an interesting note: the WP story refers to this person as a senior advisor. On Rachel tonight, they had a list of the people accompanying Trump on his tri, with their titles. Rachel did not mention it, but as it happens, only one is actually titled “Senior Advisor”: Jared Kushner.

    Maybe that’s just a coincidence, but maybe not.

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  388. 388
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    So just to be clear, are you under the opinion there are not thousands of lifelong Republicans that are prosecutors in this country?

    Of course there are. That’s why it should be so easy for you to find me an op-ed from one of them and not from Rudy Giuliani’s law partner. And yet what did you come back here with?

    But you’re not even addressing his legal and procedural arguments. All you’re saying is, “sputter….sputter….but….but….” and blaming the WSJ—hardly a rag—without touching on the substance.

    There is no substance. It’s argle bargle Hillnazi! The sad part is that you’ve been reading right-wing propaganda for so long that you think there’s some actual substance there and just nodded along without ever once considering why this source just happened to parrot every right-wing talking point you’d already absorbed.

    Do I take this weird aside to mean that you don’t think there’s even a possibility that Bill Clinton has ever engaged in the sexual harassment or assault of women?

    No, you should take it as me pointing out that the Wall Street Journal’s op-ed page has had a weird and creepy fixation on Bill Clinton’s dick for over 20 years. Were you previously unaware of this?

    The Clintons are perfect.

    Yep, there are only two kinds of people in this world: perfect people and criminals. Therefore, anyone who has never committed a crime is perfect.

    So, do speeding tickets count in your world? Or does a speeding ticket immediately toss one into the class of “criminals” who can be hounded at will?

    How about overdue library books? If you can prove that Hillary once had an overdue book in college, do I then need to agree with you that she’s clearly a criminal and every other aspect of her life must be examined in the minutest detail to find other, more serious crimes that you totally know she committed?

    I mean, a person who returns a library book past the due date is capable of anything, amirite?

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  389. 389
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bailey:

    He makes a very strong and completely obvious argument that it shouldn’t be the FBI making this decision at all.

    So, just to be clear, a police department is never allowed to look at the evidence in front of them and decide whether or not what they see is worth a prosecution? Every incident report must be referred to a prosecutor to make that determination, with no discretion allowed?

    Sounds like a great way to create a police state.

    that the standard of the statute requires “gross negligence” and doesn’t take “intent” into consideration ….

    … while glossing over the fact that Comey couldn’t find “gross negligence,” either, no matter how hard he looked.

    But, hey, I’m sure that if Mukasey had looked at the exact same evidence that Comey had — which he did not actually do — he totally would have decided to take the bitch down regardless of the evidence.

    Right-wing propaganda to Mnem = anything not HuffPo or Occupy Democrats.

    Sorry, the guy citing the opinion and editorial page is complaining that my sources are too biased? What did you think “op-ed” was short for?

    Third time and you refuse to answer the question. Do you think there is a possibility that Bill Clinton may have sexually harassed or sexually assaulted any women? It’s really a yes or no question and yet you keep tap dancing around it.

    What part of “Occam’s Razor” was confusing to you? The right wing has been pawing through Bill Clinton’s underwear for 20 years, and they’ve come up with jack squat. Call me when you have some evidence of your claims other than your feeling that he must be guilty.

    No, you’re not right. I’m sure you’ll understand why I eliminated the rest of that nonsense reply since you were clearly on your way to setting up another strawman argument.

    Really, the guy who insists that Bill Clinton must be guilty of sexual assault or sexual harassment somewhere along the line is accusing me of setting up straw men?

    What is your deep need to find the Clintons guilty of an actual crime somewhere along the line? Why is it impossible for you to accept that they’ve been subjected to minute investigations for 20+ years and the reason they’ve never been indicted for committing a crime is that neither one of them has ever committed a crime?

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  390. 390
    No One You Know says:

    Major Major Major Major: Quite. I would use a mobile pie filter if I could find one.

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  391. 391
    workworkwork says:

    @🌷 Martin: I’ve got an Apple Watch and type 2 diabetes so I’m paying close attention to these developments.

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  392. 392
    Ian says:

    @Hal:
    No beef with Gillibrand, but can we pick someone who can win an election? I know Roy Blunt had a shit ton more money, but Kander should have won that election.

    ReplyReply

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