Because they’ve hitched their wagon to a deranged, ignorant, pussy-grabbing “star,” the Republicans and sundry government employees have been compelled to undertake quasi-serious investigations into false and frankly ridiculous claims and allegations. This began literally on Day One, when Trump pressured the US Parks Service to produce nonexistent photographic evidence to support his lies about the inauguration crowd size.
To stave off the narcissistic injury of his massive popular vote loss, Trump claimed that millions of illegal ballots were cast, sending Republican minions scurrying to bolster that absurd claim. Now a panel headed by a racist vote suppressor has been convened, at taxpayer expense, to support that lie and hatch additional racist voter suppression schemes as a bonus.
The “wire tapp” lie about President Obama similarly goaded Republicans into investigating an absurdity. Trump was just repeating fatuous nonsense from Breitbart and Fox News, but he is no longer some random ranty douchebag flinging spurious allegations like verbal turds from his perch on a golden toilet; the morons who yoked their fate to his were obligated to treat the accusation seriously.
But if Brian Beutler is correct in a New Republic piece published today, the tweet below has the most potential to bring the whole house of cards crashing down on Trump’s head:
James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 12, 2017
Beutler notes that while versions of the truth provided by Trump and his White House flacks tend to vary wildly, they’ve been notably consistent in keeping mum about the tapes alluded to in the tweet. He speculates that’s because those within the administration capable of higher cognitive functioning know they’ve boxed themselves in but good:
For a White House as undisciplined as this one, the tape stonewalling scans less as a political position than a legal one. White House counsel Don McGahn, or someone else who understands the potential gravity of the situation, may well have told everyone to keep their mouths shut. If the White House were to acknowledge that there are no tapes, Trump would be caught in a very troubling fabrication to intimidate a witness, but if the White House confirms that tapes exist, Trump would face the legal obligation to preserve them and perhaps even surrender them to Congress.
We know to a near certainty that the White House will come under immense pressure to come clean. If Comey testifies publicly before the Senate, it is likely he will confirm under oath that Trump sought his personal loyalty, thus resolving the mystery of the White House tapes one way or another. Trump might dispute Comey’s claims, but if he doesn’t release any tapes to prove his case, it would suggest either that the tapes don’t exist or that they vindicate Comey. The question at the heart of the tape scandal would tighten from “Do the tapes exist?” to “Did the president lie about the existence of the tapes, or about their content?” That’s a question people working in the White House will feel much more pressure to address than the one they face today.
It strikes me as overwhelmingly likely that the truth lies in one of these two scenarios. But even if Trump has recordings of his conversations with Comey, and they vindicate Trump—as he coyly suggests in his tweet—it is small solace because he will have recorded himself using his power to fire Comey as leverage to discourage an FBI investigation. That is, he will have gathered evidence against himself, documenting his attempt to obstruct justice.
Check and mate? Not while the Party Before Country Party hopes it can wring tax cuts, court appointments and voter suppression measures (as a bulwark against its overwhelming unpopularity) out of Trump.
But you know the establishment GOP is longing to wrestle the Tang Tyrant down, wind duct tape around his big fat mouth and break his tiny tweeting thumbs. It’s difficult to see how they make this White House “tapes” bullshit go away, given the dilemma Beutler outlines above.
There are really no good ways to spin it. And even if the GOP manages to avoid an independent investigation for now, if the party is increasingly seen as carrying water for an addled liar leading an incompetent fail parade, that may cost them enough seats to lose control of congress. And then all bets are off.
RepubAnon
I expect the White House will hire James O’Keefe to review and release any relevant portions of the tapes…
clay
I still think that Trump will use a defense of “I put ‘tapes’ in quotes”. Not saying it will work, but he seems to think that putting quotes around a word shields him from the consequences of using that word. (cf his defense of saying Obama “wire tapped” his phone)
Frankensteinbeck
This is adorable, but it’s yesterday’s crisis of Trump betraying America. Today he let Edrogen’s bodyguards beat up Americans protesting in public in DC.
EDIT – I know very little about this story, since I just got up, but I scanned the previous thread and didn’t see it brought up. Somebody ought to.
Major Major Major Major
Supposing Trump even makes it to November 2018, I’m already sick of the video clips showing republican hypocrisy on lame-duck sessions being tyranny. Just realized.
MattF
Another possibility is that the tweet was aimed at Trump’s base. If there’s a record of Comey responding equivocally to Trump’s demands, it would be obvious disloyalty to Trump. Which would be unacceptable to any right-thinking citizen.
clay
From WaPo:
You’d think this family would learn that anything they tweet can and will be used against them.
Tractarian
I’m pretty bullish on impeachment (as in, I think it’s only a matter of time before Republicans in congress realize that it’s better for their re-election chances), but I don’t think this tweet itself presents much of a problem for him.
It’s pretty clear now that there are no tapes. Trump has instructed his staff to neither admit nor deny the existence of tapes (Spicer basically spelled that out that the other day) just to preserve strategic ambiguity. The whole purpose of the tweet was to create that ambiguity – he didn’t say there were tapes, he just said Comey should worry if there were.
MattF
@Frankensteinbeck: But they didn’t actually kill anyone, right?
Yarrow
Schumer spoke this morning and called out the Republicans. I don’t think he quite used the phrase “party before country” when describing their current behavior, but he wasn’t far off.
MattF
@Tractarian: I disagree about the existence of ‘tapes’. I’d be very surprised if every whisper and footfall in the Oval Office isn’t recorded for posterity.
Humboldtblue
It’s only been four months since he was inaugurated. We may not have anything left by this time next year whether Trump remains in office or not.
The Moar You Know
Problem is, all the smart folks now understand that Trump is not just a threat to the people they don’t like, but to everyone. That leaves the actual Trump voters, who still don’t see a problem and I don’t think could be forced to at gunpoint.
Only when I see his numbers start falling among GOP voters can I allow myself any hope. I watched this time and again with Bush, the assurances that Rove and Cheney were going to be “frog-marched out of the White House”. Never came to anything, by the time the rank and file threw in the towel on Bush he only had a year left to go anyway.
Serious question: when Donnie signs tax breaks, he’s gone. He will be cut loose when the GOP gets what they want out of him. Do you think he knows that?
Nicole
Assuming there are free and fair elections in 2018. The number of states who run elections with no paper ballot record is worrying. How do you prove it without a paper trail?
For what it’s worth, my late aunt, who worked for the Board of Elections, until not long before her death in 2008, said the old lever machines were possible to rig, too. So it’s not that computers are NOT the way to run elections; it’s just that we need to be willing to sacrifice trees and make sure there is always a paper record. I think this is worth going after our Reps for, to try to make it an issue in time to maybe protect integrity of elections.
I do miss the old lever machines, though. In other news, that’s not music and get off my lawn.
germy
Frankensteinbeck
@MattF:
I’m reading up for more detail now. I guess it was yesterday. Nine people hurt, but no deaths. There was a crowd outside the embassy, and the bodyguards charged the protestors holding a Kurdish flag and beat them to the ground, then kicked them. I saw a video of that.
clay
Also from WaPo, Trump wants to sell his Caribbean property:
Gee, who could’ve foreseen any ethical conflicts with a President who retained his business interests?
Yarrow
@Tractarian: Disagree. There are tapes. Said tapes may not be in Donald Trump’s possession, however.
Anonymous At Work
@clay: It doesn’t shield Trump from a subpoena to produce the tapes or admit, under pains and penalties of perjury, that no such tapes exist and there is no White House taping system. Given Trump’s habit of taping/recording/listening in on others’ conversations at his clubs, a denial of “tapes” becomes a one-whistleblower-away from “I”, “F” and “P”: Impeachment, Felony and Prison.
Frankensteinbeck
@The Moar You Know:
It’s not about tax breaks, or they would be over and done already. I don’t know what McConnell wants besides Gorsuch, but as Gorsuch’s process shows, if he’s willing to fight for it, he’d have it. Besides, Pence or Ryan would sign tax cuts far more reliably than the Senile-In-Chief.
Teddys Person
I get that Ryan, McConnell and crew want their tax cuts, ACA repeal and any other legislation that benefits their wealthy overlords. What I don’t get is they can get this stuff more easily with a President Pence, Ryan or Hatch, and by more easily, I mean they don’t have to put up with or defend Dolt45. What exactly is stopping them from proceeding with impeachment? The only thing I can come up with is fear. Fear that Trump will take them all down with him. Rock meet hard place.
germy
@Frankensteinbeck:
In the video I saw, a baby stroller was lying on its side and a woman was sitting on the ground near it, being comforted by another woman.
The men in suits were kicking people in the head who were already down. The police were grabbing protesters, but gently shooing away the men in the suits.
trollhattan
Depending on the House Republicans to remove “their” president seems like the most magical of thinking.
Corner Stone
@Nicole:
I think there’s an argument to be made that we did not have free and fair elections in 2016. We had the veneer of democracy but IMO the long creep of redistricting and voter suppression, both by state lege, finally caught up to us and allowed a (kind of) subtle steal.*
*As opposed to the SCOTUS Steal in 2000 that was basically five justices flipping America the double bird.
Yarrow
@Frankensteinbeck: What it’s about is that the entire top GOP leadership are traitors and are involved in this Russian mess up to their eyeballs.
If Trump is taken out due to investigations of his involvement with Russia then they themselves will also be caught up in it as their collusion and complicity is revealed. Their best bet is to slow walk the whole thing and hope they can just run out the clock. It’s not going to work and they will also be going down, but it is what they see as their best bet. That’s why they aren’t rushing to get rid of Trump. To do so means they go down with him.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Teddys Person: Trump is the Republican base. I imagine that he’s one of the few Republicans that commands any personal loyalty.
hovercraft
@Frankensteinbeck: @MattF:
From @amk last night:
Teddys Person
@Thoroughly Pizzled: Good Point.
hovercraft
Deleted
Immanentize
In light of Kay’s anti-corruption angle (which I fully embrace) I am not calling Republicans the “CASH before Country Party” which is accurate and more damaging to the Republican Brand.
Frankensteinbeck
@Yarrow:
Could be, but it’s worth noting this is clearly and definitely not about tax cuts. Ryan lives for tax cuts and destroying Medicaid, yes. I dare say McConnell would be happy with the former, and maybe the latter. But driving motivations? Ditch the ‘tax cuts’ myth. McConnell has stuck his long testutinoid neck out for exactly one thing, the Supreme Court seat. I actually find McConnell’s lack of motivation weird. I also assumed at first that he would be strong-arming through a conservative wishlist in the first hundred days. Instead, he’s the quietest guy in Washington.
Betty Cracker
@The Moar You Know: Trump was losing non-college educated white dudes in a poll taken before the Comey firing. I’ll believe impeachment when I see it too, but the l’affaire de Comey, including the “tapes” tweet, is a disaster for Trump.
Yarrow
@Teddys Person:
The reason you’re coming up with that answer is that it’s the real reason. Top GOP leadership knows they will be taken out as well. They don’t want to start the proceedings. It’s not going to go well for them, though.
@trollhattan:
It does, but as the pressure increases on them they will eventually realize it’s their only choice. Or he’ll resign. But as I’ve been saying for months, he’ll throw everyone under the bus first. There is no win here for Republicans.
JMG
@Teddys Person: It’s simple, without the racism and xenophobia Trump brings to the table, their agenda has like maybe 20 percent support.
Spanky
@Yarrow: Nor in any US Person’s possession, in fact.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Apparently, you’re not allowed to call Trump Jr names on Twitter. Who knew?
Such special snowflakes….
Mike in DC
The deadline for passing a health care Bill through reconciliation is June 15th. After that, any tax reform bill would be temporary and expire after 10 years. If this mess leads to failure to pass something by deadline, look for mass defections and a vote for a special prosecutor.
Peale
@Yarrow: I’ve said this before. I am going to guess that a lot of Congressmen, Senators and Governors are involved with Russia financially, not just accepting Russian money into their campaigns. My guess is that there were more than a few who used offshore registered companies to gain access to the cash or holdings in companies in violation of sanctions that were in place at the time. And my guess is that more than a few large donors to the party have done the same. There is a risk that democratic party members have done the same thing, but at this point, I think there will be attempts to make this go away until a Democrat can be found to make it into a “both sides” “lets move forward” issue. These really are those kinds of people. Shamelessly easily bought. Drunk with the idea of immunity.
Nicole
@Corner Stone: in all honesty, this country has never truly had free and fair elections; I’ll wager $1 million that I don’t have that there have been shenanigans in every single one (voter suppression counts) but I think outright voter fraud is fairly rare these days compared with, say, the 19th century. That said, it would be much easier to accomplish remotely with a computer balloting system.
There have been articles that voter suppression in Michigan and Wisconsin more than accounted for the difference in votes, correct? Not so much Pennsylvania, but I grew up there, and that place is as racist as all get out. The Confederate flag is not an uncommon sight there.
cain
What I don’t understand is why is tax cuts worth all this shenanigans? Why are Republicans so willing to go the woodshed and get spanked continuously. Surely, they realize that whatever they put in place would be replaced quite quickly after the whole house collapses and control moves to the democrats? All those programs are now part of the DNA of the country, even the deplorables depend on it. It just seems like a huge stretch to do all these things that are pretty much borderline traitorous as you’re willing to even fuck the constitution just to get those tax cuts. What is in it for these guys? I don’t understand…
Raoul
Orrin Hatch, who no doubt has an iron-clad safe seat, tossed out this gem today: (via Bloomberg’s Sahil Kapur)
The. Guy. Is. A. Winner.
Jeeeeeeezus, Mary, and Latter Day Saints, that’s nuts.
cain
@Frankensteinbeck:
He’s got no cover, and a lot of that is change too quickly for this country to adapt to. He knows that once these peoples bubble’s get broken, and they find out all this promised prosperity due was all one big lie, they are fucked.
Yarrow
@Frankensteinbeck: I don’t know if you saw my comments in December when McConnell went from “No, not gonna allow investigations” to “Okay, I’ll allow investigations into Russian involvement in our elections” in a matter of a few days. He read from a prepared statement and that was it. He looked like someone had a gun to his head. Through the years I’ve had the misfortune of seeing plenty of clips of McConnell speaking and I’ve never seen him look like that. His body language was off. He looked scared. Adam Silverman and I had a back and forth about it over a few threads at the time.
My assessment is that someone showed him something that made him change his tune. I don’t know what that something is, but they have something on him and it scared him enough to get him to allow investigations. He’s quiet now because he’s hoping it’ll spare him from whatever that “something” is.
Adam’s reply to me last night in a comment about McConnell:
“The Congressional GOP leadership is rumored to have used Super PACs and campaigns to launder money for, among others, the Russians.”
If true, McConnell is up to his eyeballs in it. He’s guilty. He knows it. Hence not making things worse for himself.
Immanentize
@Yarrow: Hi Yarrow. All OK?
I am with you on the tapes — Trump has a long history of bugging his own properties, etc. Having a record of his conversations is just the kind of blackmailey thing he would absolutely require in the oval office.
Back in the ’80’s during the Texaco/Pennzoil case, Larry Trump discovered that his phone at Harvard was bugged. Our joke (knowing Tribe pretty well) was that he bugged himself because he couldn’t stand to miss a word he said.
Same thing applies to Trump (Factorial!)
NotMax
@Mike in DC
Also (unless memory has totally failed me) no vote yet on raising the debt ceiling.
Tick tock, tick tock…
cain
@Peale:
One would hope that we can challenge Citizens United since literally this is leading to some politicians to committing treason by accepting bribes from other countries who are not our allies.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Nicole: The fairest elections in American history were probably the ones during Reconstruction and the ones between passage of the Voting Rights Act and 2000.
Raoul
@clay: Geraldo Rivera : Journalist as Vanilla Ice : Rap Star
Yarrow
@Peale: Whoever is involved in it, Republican, Democrat or other, they all need to be taken down. Maybe it’ll be the impetus to do some reform of the money in politics. Ha ha. I know. But maybe.
Frankensteinbeck
@cain:
This motivation has never stopped the GOP before. On the contrary, they deal with a pile of unpopular legislation that causes an uproar by forcing it through as fast as possible. See the AHCA in the House, but there are plenty more examples in the states. The Senate is twiddling its thumbs and it’s bizarre.
Immanentize
@Immanentize:
That is supposed to be “now” instead of “not.” Makes more sense that way….
Mnemosyne
@germy:
IIRC, the bodyguards have diplomatic immunity while they’re here, so the cops couldn’t do much more than gentle shooing.
If I were a protester, I would bring some mace or pepper spray with me next time. The bodyguards may be immune from arrest or prosecution by the US government, but there’s only so much they can do legally against a citizen defending themselves.
hovercraft
@trollhattan:
THIS!!!!
Some pollster was on TV the other day pointing out that when you breakdown the numbers, the majority of republican voters NEVER soured on Nixon or Bush. If you take in the number of actual voters and break out voters who are reliable consistent republican voters they are about 32-33 %, so when we talk about the magic 27%, that translates to about 82%, so even if he goes down to 27% that still means that 82 fucking percent of republicans will STILL APPROVE of him, so the GOP are stuck between a rock and oblivion.
Immanentize
@JMG: This is the reason — the Republicans are afraid that Trump supporters, who we keep saying are insanely loyal — will remain loyal to Trump over them and that they will lose their seats and all the cash flow that goes with them.
Mnemosyne
@cain:
It’s not just the tax cuts. The Holy Grail is widescale voter suppression of Democratic voters to cement their “permanent Republican majority.”
Yarrow
@Immanentize: Doing okay, although the things that are making my life challenging have not changed. In fact, things have possibly got worse just in the last week. We’re still investigating. I’m the only one holding all the pieces together for more than one person and it is rather exhausting as its been going on for a long time.
Best wishes to you and Mrs. I. I saw your comments about her diagnosis and I’m so sorry to hear about it. I hope you get some good news.
And yes, I expect Trump is bugging everyone he can in the WH. I also think if he is that he’s not the only one.
SatanicPanic
@Frankensteinbeck: McConnell only has a slight majority and has almost no influence with Trump. He’s smart enough to know that he only invites a stupid response from the president by saying anything. But the point of the AHCA was to free up money so they could get permanent tax cuts while avoiding the filibuster. It was always a high-risk strategy and who knows, he might get it done.
Mnemosyne
@germy:
Also, too, if we had a normal administration in charge, those bodyguards would have their visas revoked and be frog-marched onto the next plane to Istanbul, but that ain’t gonna happen while Trump’s new bestie Erdogan is here.
The Moar You Know
@Mnemosyne: They absolutely do not. Actual diplomats and their families do, but that’s all.
Someone told the police to not interfere with those guys. And the real problem is the cops said “yes, sir” and let Erdogan’s thug crew run riot.
NorthLeft12
Since Deadbeat Donald and/or his minions clucked about releasing Hilary’s concession phone call, it became as clear as can be that he probably records everything.
What a sad and pathetic human being he is. I just…..no I won’t go there, but geez louise guys! How could you?
Aleta
BC, Thanks for this great piece.
rikyrah
Mr Trump, picking a fight with the FBI was a horrible idea. You have too many bones in your closet, and the FBI has all the keys…
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) May 16, 2017
Immanentize
@Yarrow:
Hang in there. I am sure that those people know what a sacrifice you are making to help them, I wish we could do something to likewise help you?
Yarrow
@The Moar You Know: Adam talked about this incident last night in one of the night threads. I think his observations were that it’s a bit of a fine line because of US police beat up foreign bodyguards it creates a diplomatic incident. So they’re told to be somewhat hands off.
Wasn’t there a similar situation (not as bad) when Erdogan last visited? I think Obama was still president. I think one of the bodyguards did something to the press or something. Can’t remember the details–anyone else remember?
Immanentize
@The Moar You Know:
If that is how it went down, the DC police are going to be paying a bunch of people a LOT of money.
Tim C.
I think, respectfully, there’s a mistaken assumption about why the GOP isn’t turning on Trump. They can get tax cuts, a destroyed Medicare system, and right wing judges out of Pence just as easily. In fact Pence isn’t all that bright and pretty easy to keep control of, so from a policy point of view, to the GOP establishment, he would be a vast improvement over the Trumpenfurher. What’s holding them back is trump has a significant, but as yet undetermined number of rabid supporters who will *NEVER* abandon him until they are personally hurt by what he does, there’s another group that are part of the full on Trump Cult who would literally rather die than abandon him. Ever. The GOP will die without those voters. Those voters don’t care about reality and if the GOP turns on Trump they will feel betrayed. They won’t vote.
I think that more than policy outcomes is driving the GOP decision making process.
rikyrah
@Teddys Person:
Pence has even less legitimacy than Dolt45.
Yarrow
@Immanentize: Thanks. They do and they are kind and appreciative, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s still me holding things together. I really don’t know what anyone can do.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Corner Stone
@cain:
My theory: The rise of the Middle Class (MC) is an historical abomination. The Wealth Owners (WO), who are the new landed gentry, want all their money back. The way to accomplish that is to accumulate true wealth in as few hands as possible. The WO set favorable districts, rig elections, then buy the legislation they want in effect. The failure of wages to rise as productivity increases is systemic to policy that is in place. The assault on social security since its inception by people/groups like Pete G. Petersen is not only an attempt to steal that money but also deny it from the poor and MC, all while keeping their money in their own pockets. Same for other safety net programs.
In the end, an ill-educated, non-mobile population spending all their energy to earn enough to barter for food, shelter and/or drugs is one that will accept any conditions, insults, outcomes, etc. And not have the time, energy or resources to peacefully assemble with other like minded peoples to push for better results.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Gelfling 545
@The Moar You Know: I don’t really understand this. Surely Pence would sign the GOP’s most loathsome legislative efforts in a red hoy minute.
Bruce K
I have this ugly suspicion that what the GOP in Washington wants is quite simple: they want to keep the Southern Strategy voters, without whom they’re at serious risk of losing their hold on power. Trump caught the Southern Strategy voters’ attention like the Pied Piper of Hameln; if the DC GOP turns on Trump, they risk him retaliating by turning the Southern Strategy voters against them. Right now, as far as the levers of power are concerned, they’ve got it all, but if they turn on Trump, then next year, it all comes apart…
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@hovercraft:
This dynamic astonishes me… I truly, truly believe that if we had a Democrat in the office who was blatantly embarrassing her/himself and the party and country, showing obvious signs of corruption, his/her supporters would shed in large numbers.
I know few (actually, none) who still think Anthony Wiener would be a good candidate and honorable person. John Edwards? Gone.
But DeLay ends up on Dances with the Stars. Gingrich runs for prez. Ghouliani is suggested for AG or Director of the FBI.
IOKIYAR. Otherwise, off with their heads!
Yarrow
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I would like to see the investigations into Russian involvement in our elections turn up something about Tad Devine and his relationship with Paul Manafort. Those revelations might might shut up a certain Senator.
Meanwhile, it is very curious how silent that certain Senator has been about Russia in general. Not completely quiet, but certainly not speaking out forcefully. And stances like the above only invite more questions.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
This one’s for Kay:
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
Which is why the financial requests that have been made are very curious.
Remember.
They didn’t get Capone for bootlegging, or extortion, or murder.
They got him because of taxes.
Corner Stone
@Nicole:
I take your point but I was discounting the majority of those to be, in the end, non-significant. I don’t think too many democratic elections hinged on random suppression. That’s just my opinion.
But what we saw in 2016 was an accumulative effect/outcome of a decades long, coordinated assault on democracy. In this case with proof of an assist from an outside foreign power. I am not aware of anything coordinated on that scale that could be pointed to as demonstrably changing whole states’ outcomes.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
Quiet enough. Hadn’t really said shyt, if you think about it.
Peale
@rikyrah: Do you think Manafort made sure that the Pence pick happened when Trump was wavering because he thought “Goodness, that Christian Pence is such an upstanding man. A good, honest fool is what I want.” Nope. Manafort wasn’t looking for a stooge. Keep digging people. Pence is a dishonest man. Dishonest men like these don’t just “know of” each other.
Yoda Dog
I’m starting to really not care for this wilmer guy..
Yarrow
@rikyrah: And that why NY AG Schneiderman’s investigations are so essential. Even if he resigned and was pardoned by 46, he can’t escape the state charges. RICO, money laundering, you name it.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Yarrow
@Peale: What’s hiding in Pence’s redacted emails? Why did Manafort push Pence? The IC knows…..
rikyrah
The Malice of Trump’s Incompetence
By Daniel Kurtz-Phelan
…………………….
That the disclosure came in a meeting with Russia’s foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, and ambassador to Washington, Sergey Kislyak, adds a conspiratorial overtone to the entire episode. Suspicious interactions with Kisylak, after all, have already gotten Jeff Sessions and the untouchable Jared Kushner into trouble, and could land former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn in jail, despite Trump’s efforts to block the FBI investigation. Trump, one administration official told the press, “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.” But the impulse behind Trump’s loose talk may go no deeper than a desire to impress the guests he had just smilingly welcomed into the Oval Office. NBC’s Richard Engel quoted an intelligence official’s explanation that Trump was eager to show the Russians “how cooperative he wants to be with them.”
Yet none of that allays the seriousness of the consequences. The first, and most immediate, is damage to the specific intelligence operation Trump bragged about. If the recent laptop ban on flights from the Middle East to the United States, and the administration’s accompanying explanations, are any indication, the source of the information was both sufficiently trusted and sufficiently well placed that it was acted on immediately. Now, the ongoing effort to track that threat is imperiled. A source’s life may be in danger. At a minimum, the flow of further information is hampered, if not destroyed entirely. “This means that some guy working on a laptop bomb relocates and is no longer in the orbit of these sources,” notes Daniel Benjamin, a senior Obama administration counterterrorism official now at Dartmouth.
The disclosure also adds to already significant doubts among foreign intelligence services about the trustworthiness of the American government. Before Trump’s inauguration, there were reports that American intelligence officials were warning foreign counterparts to “be careful” about what they shared with the new administration, out of fear of where it might go from there. For foreign intelligence officials, yesterday’s news came as a chilling reminder of what could happen with information passed to Washington. There may be little in the way of overt complaints or explicit prohibitions against future sharing, since other governments still need as much, or more, intelligence help from us as we need from them. But they will think twice before divulging anything that might reveal key human sources, unique technical capabilities, or ongoing operations that could be upended by indiscreet boasting in the Oval Office or al fresco crisis-management at Mar-a-Lago.
Peale
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I think we have to face the fact that despite our reputation, Liberals are actually more puritan prudish than libertine in daily lives. I bet most of the true swinging couples are in the GOP and attend church on Sundays.
Betty Cracker
@Tim C.: Great points.
Frankensteinbeck
@Tim C.:
Pence is McConnell and Ryan’s dream president: A dull arch-bigot just barely smart enough to repeat talking points with no improvisation.
@rikyrah:
They’ve never cared about legitimacy before.
rikyrah
Poll: Voters Favor Impeaching Trump by 7-Point Margin
By Eric Levitz
President Trump has never been popular. More than half of the country disapproved of the GOP standard-bearer on the day he was elected, and that vocal majority has largely persisted through all the days since.
Which is another way of saying: Trump doesn’t need to be popular. Not electorally, anyway. His party’s structural advantage in the Electoral College — combined with our nation’s myriad barriers to voter participation — give candidates with strong support from elderly white people a decent shot to rule without majoritarian consent.
…………………………………..
But over the past few days, some cracks have begun to appear in Trumpism’s foundation. Last week, Quinnipiac found Trump’s support among white men falling significantly: In April, the demographic approved of the president 53 to 41 percent; one month later, that margin was down to 48 to 46.
And a PPP poll released Tuesday portrays an even more severe erosion in Trump’s base of support. The survey shows that Americans wish Hillary Clinton had won in November by a margin of 49 to 41 percent — and that 10 percent of Trump voters now wish they’d elected Crooked Hillary.
What’s more, the poll finds 12 percent of Trump voters saying that they would support the president’s impeachment. In total, 48 percent of Americans told PPP that Trump should be removed from office, while only 41 percent rejected that idea. This is the first time that the pollster has found plurality support for Trump’s impeachment.
SatanicPanic
@Gelfling 545: I dunno, Gerald Ford had a very modest legislative record. With Pence you’d get a guy that no one likes that much, a congress with some massive internal divisions over whose fault it was that Donald was removed (and over who voted in which direction), and everyone scared about the upcoming election. It would take some serious skills to get anything done in that environment and I’m not sure Pence has them. I’m sure he’d come up with some awful executive orders though.
evodevo
@The Moar You Know: Yes. This. Constant promises on frog-marching from lefty quarters who totally ignored that Repugs have NO shame and aren’t going to produce those incriminating records or refrain from erasing/shredding them. When faced with a corporate mafia, comity goes down the drain.
ThresherK
Trump’s on my local TV live with the speech to the innocent Coasties, who did nothing to deserve this.
I grazed across it and the first words I heard were “to secure our borders”.
Wasn’t the Coast Guard budget slated to be slashed?
hovercraft
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
So if we search his history of stupidity we will not find him calling anyone names, right? He’s never said Crooked Hillary, or called anyone else some name, ever?
Sheesh. can someone tell these fucking morons that when you choose to step into the political arena people get to say any damn thing they want to about you. Your fucking father rode his way to the WH by calling our last president an illegal alien who lied his way into the country and faked his entire resume, so little shitgibbon can just shut the fuck up and take whatever the internets choose to dish, short of actual threats. Welcome to the big leagues, sure the money ‘s great, but taking shit comes with it.
rikyrah
@cain:
This is their chance to undo the American Social Safety Net. Their Holy Grail. They think that they can do it, and then blame Dolt45 and jettison him, and be blameless just in time for 2018.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@Frankensteinbeck:
What “comforts” me with Pence is that he was an incompetent governor and was about to leave in disgrace. He wouldn’t last long in the top job either.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
YEP YEP YEP :)
rikyrah
@Peale:
With Pence came the Holy Rollers…never forget that.
ArchTeryx
@Yarrow: Except maybe making their dream of eugenic purges and tax cuts for billionaires come true. They already got their Supreme Court seat, the gift that will keep on giving for 40 years.
dmsilev
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I would say that he’s got the mentality of a self-absorbed six year old, except that that would be slandering six year olds.
hovercraft
@cain:
Because cutting taxes is their agenda, cutting regulations and drill baby drill too, but the be all and end all of their is to cut taxes and stuff the courts with judges who will protect their interests, that’s it. They still believe that once they cut taxes the political cost of raising them will stop democrats from raising them when we come to power. I guess Obama allowing the tax cuts on the rich to expire and the tax hikes in the ACA weren’t proof that the democrats will raise taxes when they need to.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
The whole rotten bunch of them are corrupt and compromised.
Yarrow
@Tim C.: There’s also a difference between the GOP leadership and the rank and file Republicans in Congress. The leadership are guilty of collusion with the Russians. They knew and know what Trump has done and is doing and have done nothing because it’ll take them out as well.
If the GOP leadership wanted to push for investigation of Trump they could do it. They could get Fox to start pushing stories about how Trump was really a Democrat and just a “bad apple” to shift the rubes’ views on Trump. They could blame Russia and say it’s Russia’s fault people voted for Trump because of “fake news” and “we were all fooled.” Etc. They aren’t doing that because investigations will take them down as well.
The rank and file Republicans who aren’t being funded by Russia or caught up in the collusion are probably more worried about their base. You’re right that if they lose the Southern strategy base voters they’ll lose power, which they don’t want to do. So they don’t want to speak badly of Trump because they’re afraid that will lose the voters.
It’s a both/and, not either/or.
rikyrah
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 5/16/17
Exclusive: New subpoena issued in Trump associate investigation
Rachel Maddow breaks exclusive news that a federal subpoena has been issued in the investigation of former Donald Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort.
Shana
@Yarrow: I saw something yesterday that said Sheldon Adelson met with McConnell yesterday. That may have something to do with it.
rikyrah
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 5/16/17
Republicans not moved to action on Trump
Congressman Jim Himes, member of the House Intelligence Committee, talks with Rachel Maddow about the significance of the news that Donald Trump may have tried to pressure James Comey into ending the investigation into Mike Flynn.
ruemara
@Frankensteinbeck: No, they’ve said it’s about tax cuts. They haven’t gotten them yet. The other part of it is sheer, petulant destruction of democracy, because that does not fit the goals of Republicans Uber Alles. Everyone who isn’t should be cowed and removed from power while they force the population to do as they want them to do, for their own good. And if they don’t do it, they should be killed as a just, merciful god would will it.
? Martin
I mentioned yesterday that Trump doesn’t have dementia, and then got called away and couldn’t follow up. Let me clarify that. He might have early onset dementia but that is nowhere near the driving condition for the behavior we see. Trump is unquestionably a full-on narcissist which has been untreated his entire life. The main reason his behavior appears different now than in the past is that he’s so far out of his depth now that the tactics he developed throughout his life to cope are wildly insufficient for this new situation. Understand that a narcissist’s real personality is buried deep and generally inaccessible, and a new personality is developed to project to the world the person you want them to see, rather than the person you are. In effect, he’s trying to manage a fake Facebook persona from the position of being the most scrutinized individual on earth. He’s good at it – very practiced, but not perfect. Its routinely failed him in the past but he was coming from a position (entertainer, mostly) that the public grants a fair bit of latitude to. Kanye is a pretty erratic personality, but so long as he’s not doing harm, we grant him the space to act that way. Maybe some people stop being fans or some news outlets stop covering him or a label drops him because he’s too unpredictable, but he’s now wealthy and powerful enough to easily route through that. He can be his own label, etc. Trump had the same benefits. So the places where managing that facade broke down, nobody really cared all that much.
But now, everyone cares. Every tiny slip is caught and reported, and whats more, due to the partisanship that now exists (in no small part to him), it’s not just reported but it’s attacked loudly. Weak areas that before would have gone unnoticed, now get a dozen investigative reporters attached to them. Trump never had to worry about some reporter calling every charitable organization in the US to verify if he’s given them money. Someone is now documenting every Mar A Lago member. This is orders of magnitude more scrutiny than he’s ever received, and his coping mechanisms aren’t up to it. He always lied and reversed position. Always. But nobody cared before. Suddenly they do. His ability to speak extemporaneously around real estate was honed over decades and probably helped even earlier than that by his dad. But now he has to talk about NATO and healthcare and Syria and North Korea. He doesn’t have decades of experience doing that. He doesn’t really even have months of experience doing that because his entire campaign skipped past that stuff. So now he gets stuck in front of Lester Holt or whoever and his speech and thoughts are broken because he is so far out of his depth he doesn’t know how to successfully bullshit his way out of it like he has been able to do his whole life.
Maybe he has some early onset dementia, but honestly that’s the least of his and our problems.
Davebo
Trump has never come out and said/tweeted that any tapes actually exist to my knowledge.
Yarrow
@ArchTeryx: I wouldn’t be surprised to see discussion come up of removing Gorsuch from the Supreme Court due to him being chosen by a traitor and approved by a corrupt Senate led by a traitor. We’ll see.
rikyrah
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW 5/16/17
Trump leak to Russians violates protocol
Andrea Mitchell, NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent, talks with Rachel Maddow about how Republicans are processing the news of Donald Trump’s assorted violations, and how classified information is supposed to be handled with Russians.
Aleta
Perry T PhD @Perry_T
Replying to @ThePlumLineGS
1) I have ADD and can relate to the first 2 lines
2) the 3rd line is pathetic
3) the prez of US is not the leader of the free world
Perry T PhD Retweeted
Greg Sargent @ThePlumLineGS
If true, this is nuts: Officials insert Trump’s name into briefings to keep him focused enough to read them.
Reference is to Reuters: Trump Seeks Boost on Foreign Trip
Yarrow
@Shana: I saw that comment as well. It’s curious, isn’t it?
? Martin
@Frankensteinbeck: They want control of the courts. They’ve backed themselves into such a corner that the only way they survive is by controlling the courts. They can’t win the popular vote any longer. They are totally reliant on gerrymandering and voter suppression. They need to make sure that immigrants don’t convert to voting citizens. When they do lose federal control, they need to be able to maintain state control because they’ll still be able to win legislatures in the Confederacy. They need dark money.
Everything they need is in the hands of the courts. If they lose the courts, and they lose gerrymandering and voter suppression they’re done for until the party reboots. Judges are the only thing that matters to them right now.
Timurid
@The Moar You Know:
Another problem was that many of the guards were armed, and the cops didn’t want to start a gunfight.
In one of the videos you can see an officer laying into a Turk with his baton… until he pulls back when the guy’s jacket slips up to reveal a holstered pistol.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
Good point. I was listening to a lot of folks working overtime to defend Trump. This despite the continuing revelation that it is not just Trump’s rhetoric, but his decisions that are unhinged.
The Republicans have to lose elections for anything to register. Poll numbers reflect dissatisfaction, but the GOP seems to have no problem shrugging this off. Look at how they ignore negative fallout over their health care votes.
The Republicans are also counting on Trump to remake the courts with federal and Supreme Court appointments. But here’s the crazy thing. I think you are right that the GOP thinks that they are using Trump and perhaps can toss him aside when they are done. However, Trump is a master of whipping his supporters into a frenzy. And he has consistently brushed aside all attempts at control by the GOP, from the early days of the primary until now. He only plays by his own rules, and he may have some traps to spring against any Republican who tries to take him down.
Aleta
“Trump likes to look at a map of the country involved when he learns about a topic.”
He’s starting from 0 knowledge and understanding of each country separate from his needs.
Yarrow
@? Martin: Agree with everything you say. I would add that if you look at videos of interviews with Trump ten to fifteen years ago versus now, something has changed in how he functions mentally. He was much sharper then and spoke differently. Still Trump and still a narcissist. But he could put sentences together and not just rely on certain words or phrases to get him through.
I’ve followed twitter discussions by psychiatrists and other similar professionals who have been analyzing Trump’s behavior and discussion what his issues might be. They’re careful to say no diagnosis without him being tested and being an actual patient, but they’re fairly convinced he’s got some deterioration.
rikyrah
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/05/16/comey-damns-trump-write-memos-obama-obama-truthful.html
A source close to former FBI Director James Comey said that he didn’t write memos about his conversations with President Obama because the conversations were routine and Obama was truthful.
? Martin
@Yarrow: That won’t happen. If the Senate was concerned about that outcome, they should have voted accordingly. Unless this extends to be seen as a broader conspiracy that implicates members of the Senate – and Gorsuch, and the voters swing Democratic in large numbers, then it’s a settled matter. The only way to get Gorsuch out is to impeach him, and I doubt most Democratic senators would have the stomach to impeach him over something he didn’t do even in that case.
More likely, they’ll look at the Kennedy seat and go for broke on it.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
This from Matthew Continetti of the Washington Free Beacon, last night.
Never pick a fight with the Intelligence Community, the last few who have tried have all lost:
Nixon lost and was impeached*, Reagan lost and barely hung onto his job, Bush lost , Trump is going to lose too.
Perhaps if he knew anything about anything he’d have know that these guys didn’t lose because they were weak, they lost because the vast majority of the people in the IC are patriots with integrity, not political hacks there to do the presidents bidding regardless of whether it’s lawful or not. Sometimes knowing stuff is useful.
Just One More Canuck
@Raoul: Just because you are a character doesn’t mean you have character
Yarrow
@Brachiator:
Again, Trump will throw everyone under the bus, with the possible exception of Ivanka, before he’s forced out. The GOP should see this because it’s been his pattern since he was young. If they didn’t know, they’ll soon find out. He’s going to destroy them in an attempt to save himself.
hovercraft
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
Fundamental difference between the parties, they preach family values and morality but flagrantly violate all they claim to hold dear, we’re live and let live, but we want integrity and decency from our leaders. They love nasty people like Twitler and the Turtle, we like tough people like Nancy and Harry.
MomSense
@ThresherK:
Yup.
ETA: Once stopped for dinner at a restaurant where the CGA men’s water polo team was also dining. Couple of them called me “mam” and I was thinking that if they could read my mind they would not address me so politely.
/mrs. robinson
Yarrow
@? Martin: I agree they should have voted accordingly. But this is a huge scandal and it does not only involve Trump. We are only at the beginning of it. As it unravels I would not be surprised to see everything Trump has done called into question. Gorsuch may be part of it. Don’t know how it will go, but I expect to see people discussing it.
hovercraft
@Yarrow:
Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.
ruemara
@Yarrow: I’d say hang in there, but it’s moot. What else can you do? But, if you can, find some way to lighten that load, if only for a time. If there’s any way we can help out, even if it’s funds for aid for your situation, I’m sure you’d find most of us a willing, if curmudgeonly lot.
@Yarrow: He’s not silent. He thinks Russiagate is being politicized; he’s willing to work with Trump on single payer; he’s not at “impeachment” yet; he thinks the Democratic party is teh suxx. In fact, for god’s sake, Cranky Grandpa Jesus, be silent.
hovercraft
@Yoda Dog:
Welcome, come sit with me.
SiubhanDuinne
“No politician in history has been treated worse or more unfairly [by the media].”
(Guess Who, addressing the Coast Guard Academy)
JMG
The problem for the Republicans is, the longer they let Trump run free, the wackier and more dangerous (for everybody, but them especially) his actions will become.
Vhh
@Immanentize: Larry Trump?
Yarrow
@ruemara: Thanks. I do work to take care of myself but it often seems to swing back to more work to take care of others. Life is weird. I appreciate the offer and if things get even worse I might consider it. For now, hanging in there.
Yeah, that’s why I said “mostly quiet.” He occasionally tosses out a useless or even harmful statement. Like I said above, I would like to see the Russian investigations turn up dirt on Tad Devine and that in turn shut him up.
hovercraft
@? Martin:
Excellent comment, this is him to a T, he’s never been challenged before and the constant scrutiny is driving him nuts.
The Moar You Know
@? Martin: You are correct. Now I’ll read the rest of your post, but this is important. As my old abnormal psych professor took huge pains to remind us every day, “there is no diagnosis for ‘asshole’.”
Trump’s just another asshole.
Jeffro
@Brachiator:
Spot-on.
“…and so I’m telling you, my supporters, who turned out in historic numbers last November and created one of the all time great wins…(insert Electoral College nonsense here)…to rally and show your support for making American great again. Go to your Congressman’s office and tell him, You. Want. Trump! Don’t send them a dime, don’t work on their campaigns…only help Congressmen and candidates who support Trump! We are going to beat this crap…we are going to tear down the Republican establishment along with the Democrat establishment if we have to…but I am your leader and I am your voice and…”
hovercraft
I didn’t watch nut you can
Trump Seizes Coast Guard Address To Gripe About Media Coverage Of Him (VIDEO)
President Donald Trump couldn’t resist hijacking his own commencement speech Wednesday at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy to complain about how he’s been treated in the wake of the various scandals that have rocked the White House over the past two weeks.
“Look at the way I’ve been treated lately,” he griped, to laughter from the crowd. “Especially by the media. No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly.”…….
Trump on Wednesday advised cadets that over the course of their lives, they will need to “fight, fight, fight.”
“Over the course of your life, you will find that things are not always fair. You will find that things happen to you that you do not deserve and that are not always warranted,” he said, possibly in reference to bombshell reports that he disclosed highly classified information to top Russian diplomats and asked former FBI Director James Comey to quash an investigation Trump’s his first national security adviser.
Trump also pumped up his own presidency so far, crowing that he has “accomplished a tremendous amount in a very short time.”…………….
“As you leave this academy to embark on your exciting new voyage,” Trump said, “I am heading on a very crucial journey, as well. In a few days, I will make my first trip abroad as President.”
He ended his remarks by thanking cadets and congratulating them.
“Things will work out just fine,” Trump said. “Great honor. Good luck. Enjoy your life.”
Teddys Person
@JMG: So, dog-whistling isn’t enough anymore after Dolt45.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: I think BS is neck deep in the Russkie interference of 2016 elections. It benefited him greatly. Any serious investigation will bring up his campaign’s connections to Mother Russia too. Hence he is dragging his feet on the investigation into T’s ties.
Teddys Person
@Raoul: Shorter Hatch: Are you not entertained?
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: That’s my take too and has been for a long time. The Tad Devine hire was a tell from the beginning.
schrodingers_cat
@Tim C.: Rs are cowards, they are afraid of T and his base.
Dystrumpia
Test
Ksmiami
@hovercraft: Jesus Christ. He has not one ounce of class or grace. If I was a parent in attendance, I would have thrown tomatoes
Patricia Kayden
@Frankensteinbeck:
How is this a crisis? Trump encouraged rally attendees to physically assault protesters during the election cycle and got away with it completely. Who cares about Turkish bodyguards beating up anyone when no one cared about Trump supporters beating up protesters?
Patricia Kayden
@hovercraft:
His greatest accomplishment is having a Congress which will support him no matter what he does.
hovercraft
@Brachiator:
Anyone who thinks they’ll be able to do that is as dumb as the morons who thought they could have a base addicted to Rush and Sean and Fox and not pay any price, the Tea Party gave them power, but this is temporary, as Obama pointed out at Kennedy Library last week there are always setbacks, but progress cannot be stopped only slowed down. Just as they found themselves unable to pass the terrible shit they want to pass since taking the house and now the senate because to the crazy people they brought into their caucus the legislation is not terrible enough, and they can’t reach across the aisle because the base will howl, They are going to have the same problem if they ever try to turf Twitler, he is their base, angry, ignorant and resentful, just wanting to screw the liberals, he is their id. They’ve lost control of their party and their base, they’ll go down with him, they have no choice.
ruemara
@Yarrow: He did just miss the deadline for releasing his financials. I keep telling people that Putin has played both sides like a master fiddler.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@hovercraft:
Maybe at its quintessential form, Republicans are about a big, bad daddy — toxic patriarchy (with all its bigotry).
Liberalism is for self-actualized people. Oh, we’ve got turds in the punch bowl, too, of course, but I’m talking about essential form here.
chopper
@Yarrow:
some people stay sharp as they get older, but many don’t. the difference in terms of cognition and communicative abilities between the ages of 55 and 70 in many people are quite large.
cain
@Mnemosyne:
It won’t work, because eventually things will get so bad that they’ll get kicked out by their own voters. There won’t be any one to blame it on or re-direct to. So yeah they might get that, but it won’t last very long as long as it is a democracy. Now, if they decide that once they have full control, there is probably a good chance that they’ll move towards fascism very quickly. But since these guys aren’t very smart, they’ll get undercut within a decade or two by either another country or revolution. In any case, if they move towards fascism, they’ll have to repeal the 2nd amendment, and that’s when shit will hit the fan with their base. :-)
amk
The fact that putin openly dares the rethugs to ask him about the twitler’s convos with his minions shows how hard he has them in his hook. Pathetic.
Yarrow
@ruemara: It’s their specialty–take cracks that are already there (in this case between ‘establishment Dems’ and the leftier side) and exploit them. They found a convenient tool to that end with a certain Senator.
I do think in this case Putin is a bit of the dog that caught the car. I’m not sure he’s going to like what is going to happen to him.
jacy
@Yarrow:
Hang in there. I’m in the same position and have been for a while. It becomes exhausting, but you just have to find the will and reserves to keep getting through. Remember to be kind to yourself sometimes too, that helps.
cain
@Tim C.:
But what’s the point? They inherit a country that won’t have any influence, it won’t be like the 80s or 90s anymore. Nobody will trust them, and they won’t be able to do any man handling like they dreamed of doing during W.’s reign. Trump has already changed the political calculus for everyone and they are all going to start taking care of themselves create new treaties with other nations. Effectively, nobody is going to give two shits about the U.S. at that point. The only thing the U.S. has to offer is their economy and market which thanks to Republican policies will have no buying power at all.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: This is how it works when you are a lawyer. there is no need to write a memo about a conversation unless it was 1) meaningful to a case or 2) you need to CYA. There are times memos get written but the second one (CYA) is always the product of getting burned before or fearing getting burned soon. No one needs more memo writing in their work day. But once you start writing contemporaneous memos, the only better evidence of what happened is, well, tapes.
Yarrow
@jacy: Thanks. I do things to take care of myself but sometimes even that becomes work. I replied to you on the previous thread, but I hope your medical issues are resolved easily and you feel better soon.
cain
@Corner Stone:
That hardly creates more wealth for them. It would be the same money just sitting there static. Banks would be unhappy too because a population that barely has any buying power is not going to be buying a lot of goods or anything. Ultimately, a society like that cannot survive. There is only a certain amount of punishment a majority will take from a minority before something like the French Revolution happens.
Immanentize
@Yarrow:
The odds are high that some people paid a bribe to put Gorsuch’s name at the head of the list. Very high from what people in Colorado say.
Immanentize
@ruemara:
Absolutely
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Yep. The Republican leadership foolishly underestimates Trump, who always viciously fights back when pushed into a corner.
Weirdly, Trump even likes to take credit for fighting back, even when his handlers, supporters and surrogates try to give him cover for the crap he pulls.
And if anything, being elected president has only made Trump potentially more vicious.
Peale
@cain: Disagree completely. Societies like that are historically much more pervasive than French Revolutionary moments.
Immanentize
@Vhh: That is SOOOO weird. I swear I typed Larry Tribe. It was Larry Tribe.
Immanentize
@ruemara: Both sides against Hillary
rikyrah
Paul Ryan isn’t done carrying water for Donald Trump
05/17/17 12:48 PM—UPDATED 05/17/17 12:56 PM
By Steve Benen
This morning started to feel a little different. Donald Trump has been able to maintain steadfast support from Republicans through a series of brutal controversies, but the revelations from a memo written by former FBI Director James Comey changed things for many Republicans.
Suddenly, GOP lawmakers who are ordinarily eager to appear on television started turning down invitations. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made the case that we’re seeing a new Watergate. Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) believes impeachment may be necessary. Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.) now wants an independent commission, and he’s not alone. Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) said, “While I’m no Comey fan, I won’t defend anyone who obstructs justice.”
Even Wall Street, which had largely shrugged off Trump’s recent scandals, fell sharply this morning as the prospect of political instability in the White House grew more real.
Some things, however, haven’t changed at all.
Rand Careaga
@The Moar You Know:
That’s, like, just your opinion, man. Has anybody actually tried this approach to Trump voters?
rikyrah
The Real Lawless President
Republicans better start taking Trump’s monumental unfitness seriously.
by John Stoehr
May 17, 2017
Though he did more than any single person to sink Hillary Clinton’s campaign, I still believe former FBI Director James Comey more than I do the president of the United States. Donald Trump, as I enjoy saying, is a lying, thieving, philandering sadist. Comey is a lot of things, but not that. If he says Trump asked him to drop the case against Michael Flynn, and to consider jailing journalists for reporting leaks, I believe him.
Time will tell if this is the end or the beginning, but no one can doubt that according to a report last night in the New York Times, Trump appears to have interfered with an investigation and encouraged the prosecution of those who exercise their First Amendment rights.
The appearance, much less the fact, of violating the Constitution should have been enough to inflame the rage of a group of people who had previously savaged a previous president who, they said, violated the Constitution. Worse, they said, he was lawless.
When Barack Obama issued a 2014 executive order deprioritizing for deportation the children of undocumented immigrants, Republicans and their conservative media allies claimed — as Peter Wehner did in Commentary — that he was committing “an act of constitutional infamy.” For weeks and months leading up to the midterm elections of that year, they gnashed their teeth over his daring to defy Congress with “amnesty.”
………………………………………………….
Screaming “lawless” will never have the impact on Democrats that it has on Republicans, because “lawless” was never about the law or the Constitution. It was always about sending signals to Republican voters that President Obama was not like them and that everything he did was really truly an act of anti-American sabotage. Many of us thought this rhetoric was too hot for the midterms but it turned out to be a blazing success, not only for 2014 but for 2016 as well.
Principles still matter, and if the Republican care to avoid bankrupting their credibility among reasonably intelligent voters or risk their being swooped up by Democrats with big money on their side, they had better start taking President Trump’s monumental unfitness seriously. There’s more at stake than the future of the party.
Corner Stone
@cain:
They don’t care. They don’t care about this country and they don’t care about the people. Their dream is dawning – a society where they need less people to handle the menial tasks. They will no longer have to pay a driver, or a personal executive to book flights, coordinate events, etc. They can take their wealth and live anywhere in the world and it will all be peasant free in their existence.
Banks should have realized at least a decade ago when several bubbles culminated in the real estate and finance crash that there are too many people making too little dollars. Retail stores are just now seeming to awake from a bad nightmare and realize there’s nothing they can do about it. They have been Amazon-ed but also face a less consumer-ist market. Because they don’t have any damn disposable cash.
Banks are fucked as long as the Fed policy is to stagnate wages.
rikyrah
Senior White House Official Corroborates Comey Memo
by Nancy LeTourneau May 17, 2017 10:16 AM
………………….
The silence suggests that there is something different about this story. But in the meantime, White House sources are floating stories anonymously, like this one:
That’s the latest one someone has thrown out there in an attempt to get the president off the hook for firing James Comey: blame Kushner. Personally, I’m skeptical and would guess that it comes from someone in Steve Bannon’s camp, if not the Senior Counselor himself.
But here is one that has some teeth:
A lot of the twitter reaction has been to suggest that this takes us back to the old argument over whether we should take Trump seriously or literally. But that misses the point. A senior WH official just affirmed that the Comey memo is accurate by saying that this is the way the president speaks. That’s huge. As a reminder, here’s what Comey’s memo said about the president’s request:
“I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Mr. Trump told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. “He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”
It is also important to keep in mind that Trump asked the room to be cleared of everyone but Comey in order to make that request—which indicates that the president took it seriously.
I’m sure that when/if someone figures out the implication of what this senior WH official just said, they’ll be forced to come up with another lie. But there you have it…corroboration of Comey’s memo from the White House.
cain
@Peale:
It can happen though, we have had many “revolutions” especially where a country is fighting for its indpendence from a colonial power for instance. I agree that maybe something like the French Revolution is few and far between. The gentry there took things to an extreme and when the populace found that they had nothing to lose, they reacted.
Rand Careaga
@Corner Stone:
I’ve long thought that by the late sixties the ruling classes looked around and concluded “Whoa, these people have way too much time on their hands!”
cain
@Corner Stone: So what do Republicans get out of this? Will they become part of the new ‘gentry’ the new royalty class? They’d still be treated like kaffirs since they didn’t come from old money. It fucking sucks that they’d throw in their lot with these 1 percenters hoping for a golden shower.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
So true. he will never fall on a sword for these clowns.
jacy
@Yarrow:
Just got lab results from yesterday back — thankfully no weird things that weren’t expected. But what’s left of my thyroid is not working, which we did expect. Thankfully, there’s drugs for that. And I’m back on anti-depressants and have something to help with the insomnia. I had been off psychoactive meds for nearly a year, but we think maybe I just need to stay on them. At least until the bad actors in my life are no longer in my life…. I’m just tired of my organs being in mutiny! Stupid organs.
jacy
@Immanentize:
It would be swell if all the shit Trump has pulled — including Gorsuch — could be erased when he’s taken out. Don’t think it will happen, but it would be swell. But you never know, so many impossible things have happened, that anything could take place.
Brachiator
@cain:
The French Revolution collapsed and led to Napoleon, who promptly declared himself emperor.
I think it is difficult to predict what may happen here, but I think that commentor Corner Stone is correct in noting that American plutocrats don’t care about the collapse of the American middle class. And there does seem to be an increasing rise of a mobile plutocracy that can relocate to any comfortable location, without belonging to any particular country.
cain
@jacy:
Luckily thryoid medication is cheap relatiely speaking.. (not sure if it will in the future)
Tim C.
@cain: The GOP either thinks American greatness is the will of God and cant be lost ever for any reason or simply so selfish that Tax Cuts for rich people is far more important than any other policy result or outcome. Who cares about American pride and greatness when you can have a seventh yacht?
Corner Stone
@cain: “Republicans” is a big category error. I am specifically talking about elected R officials and those in charge in high level bureaucratic positions, “think tanks”, etc. People who vote R generally fall into two over-simplified large buckets, with some overlap. The ignorant racist who has no education or chance at mobility, or the somewhat well to do who hates govt taking any dollar out of his paycheck.
Elected and/or powerful R’s know where they fall in the food chain and are fine with it. They talk about “fly over country” but secretly revel in being in the elite. They get a vote on things! And it actually matters! If you look at cases where elected officials have been bribed, or where a legal donation was made “innocently” for a vote on a special issue, it is shockingly small. They know they will do the bidding of their masters and then go on to enjoy a modest sinecure if they play ball. They, their kids, their family – will all be just fine even if never truly wealthy. They know the score.
Mnemosyne
@jacy:
Yikes! Usually thyroid stuff is pretty treatable these days, thankfully. But I understand the frustration of having to take medication just to get up to normal.
catclub
@Tractarian:
ha ha. How does that work? They enrage their base but get zillions of democrats to vote for them instead?
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone: The end goal of the Republicans is a banana Republic where they’re the 1% ruling it and everyone else obeys them, or else. They only resent the Drug lords because they think to themselves “That should be me, damnit!”
We have a serious problem in America.
rikyrah
@jacy:
glad that you got an answer, and they can tackle the problem
hovercraft
@jacy: I’m glad your tests came back negative for anything truly scary. I feel you on not wanting to take some medication, but you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to stay healthy. I hope you got another good night sleep, that helps a lot. Take care of yourself and I hope you get those bad actors out of your life as soon as possible.
jl
I commend Lady Cracker for her use of precise nomenclature in describing our president.
Thinking over the general posture of the Congressional GOP that I heard described in a news report this morning, I think those who fear this mess will be resolved by a Dump Trump event ‘too soon’ before the midterms have nothing to fear. The number of Congressional GOPers who are willing to do their duty can probably be counted on one hand. The rest are in some sort of modified flexible stonewall formation, hoping that something turns up that can make the unpleasantness go away and they can get back to wrecking the country for all but the super rich and crony corporations. Ryan continues to play a cynical bafflegab waffle.
Best realistic hope is to keep Congress ground to a halt on its destructive GOP legislative agenda and keep the Trump problem front and center.
Putin trolling the US with offers of providing accurate records of the Oval Office confab is interesting. Maybe Trump is such a disaster Putin is ready to bail on the investment. Or maybe he is just doing for shits and giggles. Who knows?
Edit: House Dems and one or two House GOPers are going to try to force independent investigation despite obstruction from the vile and cynical Ryan. I forget the legislative jargon for the maneuver. News said even if successful, will take to end of July to set it up. Even an initial honest attempt to set things right will be a very long ugly slog.
jl
I feel obligated to pay attention to the news these days. But the drivel you hear presented as informed commentary is depressing. For example, GOPer hacks and legal analysts nitpicking that recommending to Comey that he drop the investigation isn’t really obstruction. After all Nixon ordered the investigation into his administration’s dirt dropped, right?
But… helllo… wakey wakey. Then Trump fired Comey and lied about why. So, I guess if such a transparent two-step side-step can defeat the minds of brilliant savvy experts who deserve to spew sounds and eat up national news air time, we are doomed.
Origuy
@cain: Generic Synthyroid is pretty cheap, but the name brand stuff is still expensive. My housemate can’t take the generic stuff, it doesn’t work for her. Some insurance won’t cover name brand, even though it’s well established that not all patients can take the generic.
ETA The dosage is also tricky, and needs to be monitored regularly.
A Ghost To Most
Betty, you were right about McMaster, and I was wrong.
bye.
Yarrow
@Origuy: I don’t know if your housemate has checked with the pharm insurance people to see how/if she can get them to cover it. Sometimes there is a form that your doctor can fill out to explain why you have to take the brand name. I had to go that route but they are covering it now.
@jacy: Thank goodness! It sounds like something you can treat and fix, although I know you wish you didn’t have to deal with it at all. Your life has been full of so much upheaval, it’s probably not a bad idea to stay on the antidepressants at least until that certain person doesn’t figure so prominently in your life. Take good care of yourself!
Corner Stone
@A Ghost To Most:
She was right about him where? Which way? Where were you on the McMaster Scale?
SgrAstar
@MattF: Agree. I’d bet that everything that happens in the Oval Office is taped. More interestingly, do you supposethat the russkies recorded twitler during their meeting? That would be news.
TenguPhule
@SgrAstar: They did. Putin already said he has transcripts he’s willing to share.
Wyatt Derp
@rikyrah:
Spot on Rikyrah. The boring, paper trail stuff is what we need to focus on, even though the over the top stuff is so much more fun to write about.
SgrAstar
@Peale: Pence is the firewall. What could be worse than the incumbent? Hmmmmm. No one- not his former colleagues, not the big donors, not the base- wants Pence in the Oval Office.
Origuy
@Yarrow: She has MediCal, California’s MediCare. They do cover it, although there’s a lot of hassle from time to time. Some hospital pharmacies don’t stock it, so when she’s hospitalized, she has to bring it from home.
Wyatt Derp
Here’s my dream scenario.
Repubs realize they are screwed either way. If they stay with Trump they lose everyone but his base and lose the election. if they defy Trump they lose his base and lose the election. The best way out, long term, is to decide to spend time with their families rather than run for re-election, followed by not getting too much in the way of the investigations during the remainder of their terms. Dems re-take the house and start sending out arrest warrants and smart repubs (Chaffetz for one) sit out the bloodbath and either run for Governor or come back to congress in a few years when the heat dies down and pretend to be the brave ones who stood up to Trump.
I think this could possibly happen because it doesn’t depend on Repubs to do anything other than think of themselves, lie, and slink away so does not require acquisition of any additional skills.
Ced
Tang Tyrant is nice.
I’ve been suggesting Golden Leaker.
TenguPhule
@SgrAstar: Pence is tied to trump like a siamese twin.
cain
@Tim C.:
This. I think definitely Republican voters think exactly that.
cain
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, I think agree.. we are being hijacked by these clowns and losing the messaging war. They seem to show no remorse for any consequences that would occur for their constituents? The irony that the prosperity doctrine is doing the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. Sigh.
cain
@Origuy: My thyroid is slowly conking out, it is still on the high end of normal. I’ve been taking it to get my cholesterol down. But if I don’t take it though after awhile I start getting rashes on my skin.
cain
@Wyatt Derp: There better be goddam jail time.. none of this kumbayaa, country divided bullshit. I don’t give a shit now if they are pissed off. We are stopping this slow moving coup.
EthylEster
@The Moar You Know: Pence will sign tax break legislation as happily as Trump would.
EthylEster
@chopper: I think your comment is spot on. I just spent several days with a 68 year old I have know for decades. She has lost a lot of ground cognitively in just the last 5 years. The change is quite amazing.
EthylEster
@Wyatt Derp:
Assumes facts not in evidence. But it’s the internet so blather on.
J R in WV
@jacy:
So glad to hear that your medical results are as expected, and pretty much treatable. Even with dorks and bitches in your life, knowing that your health is at least ok is a big step in the right direction.
I know what you mean about psychoactive drugs, and trying to stay off them. But sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and do what the doctors recommend, at least for a while. And there are different ones if you feel like something is giving you a problem.
Hang in there!!