Open Thread: Never Trust A Guy Who Calls Himself ‘Mick’

As my old man used to say: ‘He couldn’t find his way out of a phone booth with the help of a map and a seeing-eye dog’…

Gonna have to change the name from ‘Kinsey gaffe’ to ‘Trumpkin gaffe’…

238 replies
  1. 1
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Swear to you know who, they are all mad. Thank goodness that the Democrats are holding together and holding strong. And thank goodness for the courts who have beat back the Muslim bans.

    I don’t recall President Obama or any of his Spokespersons touting that they were competent and knew what they were doing. It was obvious and did not need to be stated (or lied about).

  2. 2
    NorthLeft12 says:

    But Deadbeat Donald only hires the best people I tell you!

    Next fiasco to go to the courts; Pence inspired Freedom of Religion E.O. . The ACLU [bless their souls] have already tweeted their intention to challenge in court.

    More Bigly Winning.

  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    White House argues Dems shouldn’t hurt Trump’s feelings
    05/03/17 08:40 AM
    By Steve Benen
    Congress recently agreed to a spending bill that will prevent a government shutdown, but the end result represented the latest in a series of defeats for Donald Trump. The White House made all kinds of demands for the legislation, each of which were largely ignored. By the time the agreement was announced, it was Democrats who were smiling.

    And that’s not sitting well with the president, who on Monday praised the measure. Politico reported that Trump “was furious Tuesday morning with news coverage about the spending deal,” because the reports he saw made him look like “the loser” in the deal.


    Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director, told reporters Tuesday afternoon that the reason Trump floated the possibility of a shutdown was all because of Democrats’ happiness at the spending deal. Over and over, he went after Democrats for hurting the president’s feelings.
    That may sound like a joke. It’s not.

    “I think the president is frustrated with the fact that he negotiated in good faith with the Democrats and they went out to try and spike the football to make him look bad,” the OMB chief told reporters. “I get that frustration because I think it’s a terrible posture for the Democrats to take.”

    Specifically in reference to Trump’s tweet about the “need” for a shutdown, Mulvaney added, “I think what you heard this morning was his sense of frustration over how he’s being mistreated by the Democrats on a bipartisan piece of legislation…. What I think you heard the president express this morning was frustration over how he’s been treated as part of the negotiation. And it may be if things don’t get better, we may get to that point [of a shutdown].”

    Just so we’re clear, “how he’s been treated” isn’t a reference to how the various players acted during negotiations. Mulvaney’s point is that Trump feels “mistreated” ***now that the negotiations are over. Democrats are pleased with the bipartisan deal; they’ve said so; and that’s left Trump feeling bad about himself.

    Which Mulvaney not only considers “terrible,” but which may also lead to a shutdown “if things don’t get better.”

    In other words, the director of the Office of Management and Budget effectively declared yesterday, “Democrats must stop acting pleased … or else.”

  4. 4
    hueyplong says:

    Had there been no Fredo quote, I would have inserted it.

    We are close to a Montgomery Clift Judgment at Nuremberg quote.

  5. 5
    ruemara says:

    I think this country has been slipped a Mickey. Going back 40 years.

  6. 6
  7. 7
    Mnemosyne says:


    It’s all about mediocre white male butthurt. This whole damn election was about it.

  8. 8
    oldster says:


    “In other words, the director of the Office of Management and Budget effectively declared yesterday, “Democrats must stop acting pleased … or else.””

    “Stop shaking your head, April. Stop shaking your head.”

    These petty goons would be laughable were they not in positions of power.

    Every single GOP-er who made this possible. And the media that knee-capped Hillary. Will rot in hell.

  9. 9
    The Moar You Know says:

    Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director, told reporters Tuesday afternoon that the reason Trump floated the possibility of a shutdown was all because of Democrats’ happiness at the spending deal.

    @rikyrah: He doesn’t have to wait until September. He can have his shutdown right fucking now. Just veto the spending bill and the government will shut down. That’ll show us Dems.

    Oddly, he does not seem to be inclined to do so. I wonder why?

  10. 10
    chopper says:


    so the president is a ‘snowflake’, is what the guy is saying.

  11. 11

    CNN says two “key” congressmen have flipped to yes on AHCA after meeting with Il Douche.

  12. 12
    LAO says:

    @rikyrah: The level of grievance here, is both ridiculous and out sized. This man, through an accident of birth, has had every ounce of privilege bestowed on him (as if of right) and was elected President of the United States of America — and yet, he needs to be loved and adored by the masses. What a shitheel — I can’t comprehend that level of neediness.

    ETA: Chopper said it much better than I, above.

  13. 13
    Jeffro says:


    “I think the president is frustrated with the fact that he negotiated in good faith with the Democrats and they went out to try and spike the football to make him look bad,” the OMB chief told reporters. “I get that frustration because I think it’s a terrible posture for the Democrats to take.”

    Trumpov…negotiated…in good faith?!??

    Contractors around the world are doubled over right now in laughter.

  14. 14
    m0nty says:

    The key thing to remember about spiking the football is that it is generally performed by the team that just scored a touchdown.

  15. 15
    Mike J says:

    “We are competent, and we know what we’re doing, and the country is safe in our hands”

    Before you respond, you should remember there is a woman being tried for laughing at Jeff Sessions.

  16. 16
    AnonPhenom says:


    …and the women who enable them!

  17. 17
    hovercraft says:

    Mulvaney: “The bottom line is this…They didn’t get what many of them, including many in their base wanted. They wanted a shutdown.”

    The fact that the base is dumb enough to want a shutdown when their party holds ALL three branches of government shows that these people are stupid. Do they understand how government works, and that if the shit they want to see done isn’t happening, it’s because the people they voted for are not doing it? Seriously how do these people function if they are this stupid?

  18. 18
    Jeffro says:


    This man, through an accident of birth, has had every ounce of privilege bestowed on him (as if of right) and was elected President of the United States of America — and yet, he needs to be loved and adored by the masses. What a shitheel — I can’t comprehend that level of neediness.

    He wasn’t born on third base, or even just a step away from home plate…he was born back in the dugout with a run or two already on the board. And STILL it’s not enough.

    But, you know, let’s not re-litigate the election…

  19. 19
    ruemara says:

    OT, I’m watching kudos come in for my boss for her fantastic photography. I’m still on extended probation, but you’re welcome.

  20. 20
    Mnemosyne says:


    I know where you want to go with that but, no. They’re big boys. They’re responsible for their own actions. Even if every single person currently enabling them stopped doing it, they would still have to step up.

  21. 21

    @Jeffro: I still like the Ellickson tweet during the election that had Hillary saying “Donald fucking Trump, born on third base, fell down, sued the base…”

  22. 22
    amk says:

    Proposed @RepFredUpton amendment to #AHCA is like trying to cure stage 4 cancer with cough medicine.— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) May 3, 2017

  23. 23
    Mnemosyne says:


    And if your boss accepts those kudos without telling people that you’re the photographer, she’s an asshole. But you already knew that.

  24. 24
    amk says:

    Late capitalism: American Airlines' stock drops more after raising employee salaries than United's does after brutally beating a customer.— Nick Kapur (@nick_kapur) May 2, 2017

  25. 25
    SenyorDave says:

    If you have to announce to the world that you are competent, you have to be the most inept, incompetent assholes ever. ind of like sitting down at the poker table and telling yourself that you aren’t the chump.

  26. 26
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’ll just leave this here:

  27. 27
    lollipopguild says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You need to put up “What ever is good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!”.

  28. 28
    SFAW says:

    If I thought there were such a thing as a Just God who would heed my prayers — heed, not just hear — I’d become religious in a picosecond.

    These fucking lying, snowflake, evil, anti-American, grifting, lying morons deserve to be cast out. The bottom of the Marianas Trench is about as close (altitude-wise) as they could get to Hell, but I’m not picky.

    And fuck the voters who say they thought these morons would “make America great again” — they should be made to pass the hardest fucking poll test ever created, before they’re allowed to cast a ballot ever again. Including those who thought Hillary was anything close to Shitgibbon, or any of the other Rethugs.

    Not sure why Mulvaney’s lying set me off, but I’ve fucking had it with those lying fucks. All of them.

    ETA: And yes, I know I had “lying” twice in the second paragraph. It was not unintentional

  29. 29

    @amk: it’s funny, I find that the people most likely to use the phrase ‘late capitalism’ are like the people who use ‘neoliberalism’. Not just are they the same people, but they also use both completely incorrectly.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    Latest from Topher Spiro

    Curbelo (FL) who was lean no is now a No. Probably brings Diaz-Balart with him

  31. 31
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Perhaps that 50 gallon drum of lube sent to the Bundy’s in Oregon could be repurposed?

  32. 32
    hovercraft says:


    But, you know, let’s not re-litigate the election…

    I just love how the media asks Hillary about the election every time she appears in public, then beats her up for not letting it go and not being able to move on. If she refuses to answer, I’m sure they’ll report that she’s still too bitter to talk about it, if he answers, then she’s still bitter and blaming others.
    This morning I caught a spinet of CNN, where David Chaladean (sic) on CNN was saying that if she still had advisors and campaign staff around her, she wouldn’t have answered the way she did yesterday, but that because she didn’t have and advisors she that was the most honest and genuine we’ve seen her and she’s bitter and blaming others for wikileaks, Russia and Comey for her loss, she’s also taking responsibility but she’s bitter about the people she thinks cost her the election.

  33. 33
    Bruce K says:

    Is there anyone else who’s feeling burned out at the moment just by reading news feeds? I mean … I hesitate to use the word “evil”, because it kind of closes off debate and the possibility of bridging gaps, but there’s no other word that feels right to describe the United States Republican Party in 2017. And it’s tiring to face down evil day in and day out without letup.

  34. 34
    AnonPhenom says:

    They’re responsible for their own actions.

    isn’t everyone…

  35. 35
    Yarrow says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    CNN says two “key” congressmen have flipped to yes on AHCA after meeting with Il Douche.

    Fuckin’ hell? Really? I’m in the middle of calling all the Reps I have any connection to.

  36. 36
    AnonPhenom says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    ..and I was so waiting for the AG to insert himself into the news just to drop this…

    Kudos to ya..

  37. 37
    hovercraft says:

    Investors don’t like it when you give those people more money, it means less opportunity for them to loot the company quickly. They should take comfort in the fact that since almost none of them are in a union anymore, they can just as easily lay them off, win win, they get the good publicity for giving the raise, then they quietly lay a couple of thousand off a few months later because the increase in wages is hurting their bottom line.

  38. 38
  39. 39
    AnonPhenom says:

    we really have become the United States of Dogpatch.

  40. 40
    SFAW says:

    @Bruce K:

    but there’s no other word that feels right to describe the United States Republican Party in 2017.

    Or 2016, for that matter. Or 2015. Or 2014. And so on, back to Newt “Serial Adulterer” Gingrich’s GOPAC days.

  41. 41
    randy khan says:

    By the way, in the category of not having any idea what the legislation he’s talking about does, the spending bill keeps the government open through September 30, so if the President signs it, there can’t be a shutdown until October.

  42. 42
    scuffletuffle says:

    @rikyrah: WATB in Chief…

  43. 43
    ruemara says:

    @Bruce K: *raises hand* I’m sick of their evil. I’m sick of the evil on our side (seriously, if you don’t think we have evil on our side, examine brogressive, liberaltarian twitter). I’m completely bereft of hope for improvement in the long run because willful stupidity is harder to cure than ignorance. And unlike these motherfuckers, this is a survival issue. I have to travel to PA and I’m wondering if I should carry my green card since ICE is doing the Gestapo’s work. Don’t worry, I will.


    @Yarrow: Fred Upton, the Rep from Whirlpool (he’s scion) & geez, can’t find the name

  44. 44
    Yarrow says:


    have to travel to PA and I’m wondering if I should carry my green card since ICE is doing the Gestapo’s work. Don’t worry, I will.

    I thought it was a requirement for green card holders to have it with them at all times. Seems impossible–what if you’re at the gym or out for a run? But for a cross country trip? Absolutely you need that green card with you. No question about it.

  45. 45
    Ryan says:

    Which is more likely? Matthew Broderick’s character in War Games or Russian hackers for the phone disaster?

  46. 46
    Gin & Tonic says:

    If things go according to plan, at about this time tomorrow I get the pins removed from my wrist. Damn, I can’t wait.

  47. 47
    Barbara says:

    @rikyrah: These two would be dead meat if they voted yes. Each congressional district has approximately 700,000 people. In their two districts alone 15% of their constituents have coverage under the exchange a higher percentage than anywhere else in the country, and people with that coverage have extended families and friends.

  48. 48
    AxelFoley says:

    Never Trust A Guy Who Calls Himself ‘Mick’

    Please make this a new tag.

  49. 49
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Bruce K:

    Yes, I am also feeling burnt out. Every party, agency, company, department, team has some corruption, some incompetence.

    In sports, fans can sort of ignore a bad call that benefits their team. They can ignore the dirty play of their own guys.

    But the Repubs are like a team that has Bill Romanowski, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Terrell Owens, Conrad Dobler, AND the referees are making bullshit calls.

  50. 50
    ruemara says:

    @Yarrow: You need ID. Questions about citizenship are not mandatory. I’ve never had to use my green card in 30 years traveling around the country. Headed outside, yes. ICE agents demanding it before allowing people to disembark from a plane, no.

    @Gin & Tonic: Congrats! And happy healing up, plus no more skateboarding stunts until it’s fully strong.

  51. 51
    Lapassionara says:

    @hovercraft: I am bitter too. And getting more so everyday.

  52. 52
    Citizen_X says:

    @rikyrah: Give ‘im a participation trophy.

  53. 53
    Anonymous At Work says:

    Minor quibble. If you were stuck in a phone booth with a seeing-eye dog, you wouldn’t be able to get out, at least not easily, since those doors fold inward to open. The booths ain’t big and seeing-eye dogs are lap dogs.

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bruce K: Pace yourself. Being aware is enough. You don’t have to be fighting every single moment.

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @AnonPhenom: I posted that the other night. That is actually the only song from a musical I really like.

  56. 56
    Bruce K says:

    @Yarrow: Hell, these days in Greece, I keep my national ID card and my American passport on my person at all times. I’ve actually had to replace my passport once because it got bent out of shape from riding in my pocket so much. And when I’m in the States? I still keep my passport on me. Maybe it’s paranoia, but I’m not taking any chances, even if I’ve got a physical look that makes me about the last person ICE would shake down, because I can’t get Niemoller’s warning out of my head.

  57. 57
    Citizen_X says:

    Hey, I have a friend named Mick, and he…OK, I can’t trust him. Point.

  58. 58
    rikyrah says:

    Hoping to avoid another failure, Paul Ryan turns to falsehoods
    05/03/17 08:00 AM
    By Steve Benen
    The House Republicans’ American Health Care Act was already an unpopular mess, which GOP leaders made worse by gutting protections for those with pre-existing conditions. This has become a key sticking point preventing the regressive legislation from passing: even many conservative members see this change as a bridge too far.

    The initial argument from GOP leaders to their worried members was that the change wouldn’t matter too much when implemented. Most states wouldn’t take advantage of the opportunity to hurt those with pre-existing conditions, the Republican leadership said, so the number of families that would be punished would be modest.

    That was last week. This week’s line is to simply play make-believe and pretend the GOP proposal doesn’t do what it plainly does. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) published a piece yesterday with an amazing headline:


    VERIFIED: MacArthur Amendment strengthens AHCA, protects people with pre-existing conditions.

    The MacArthur Amendment refers to the provision, championed by Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-NJ), which would empower states to waive protections for those with pre-existing conditions that currently exist in the Affordable Care Act.

    Ryan wants everyone – his members, the media, the public – to believe this provision “protects people with pre-existing conditions.” The Speaker must know at some level how very wrong this is.

    It’s not especially complicated: the Affordable Care Act requires that those with pre-existing conditions not be discriminated against, while also requiring that these consumers not be charged more for coverage.

    The GOP proposal used to maintain this protection – it’s wildly popular with the American mainstream, so Ryan was careful to include it in his original legislation – but far-right members of the House Freedom Caucus balked. The current iteration of the bill, thanks to the MacArthur Amendment, guts the guarantee.

  59. 59
    hovercraft says:

    Failing Donald Trump Has a New Enemy: Democracy

    By Josh Marshall Published May 3, 2017 11:21 am

    We’re now past the 100 Days. And it was more or less universally agreed that, in historical terms and against expectations, it was an abysmal failure. President Trump as much as conceded this with his wild mix of angry denunciations of the 100 Days standard combined with press releases touting meaningless metrics like number of executive orders signed, number of foreign leaders talked to and similar nonsense. Set all that aside. That’s really a given. What I’m interested in now is Trump’s reaction. He failed. He gets that. But why did he fail? In the Trumpian psyche, it can’t be Trump’s personal failure or a failure of strategy. So who’s to blame?

    In recent days, we’ve gotten the answer, though I have not seen it put together as such. The problem is the constitution or more generally, democracy.

    Over the weekend, I noted Rience Priebus saying President Trump was considering moves to amend or even abolish the 1st Amendment to make it easier for him to sue news organizations that make him mad. This wasn’t a discussion of libel laws. What he’s thinking about requires amending the constitution. Priebus said as much. Some people thought I exaggerated the point or that, whatever Priebus technically said, he couldn’t actually have meant that. Well, Sean Spicer doubled down on the point and expanded on it the next day.

    ……………Trump knows what needs to be done. And he gets things done. That’s who he is. But having been revealed as someone who almost literally can’t get anything done, he’s turned against the “rough … archaic system.” The system will need to change “for the good of the nation” because “it’s not fair, it forces you to make bad decisions.”……….

    Incompetence and authoritarianism aren’t incompatible or even in tension. Historically they tend to go together. Incompetence and failure borne of ineptitude tend to show up both as a cause and outcome of democratic breakdown and collapse. Small-d democratic government is hard, by design. It’s meant to be. It should be. But it’s not just hard. It relies on a particular package of skills: persuasion, inspiration, patience, canny use of patronage, threats, carrots and sticks, both consensus building and fight. Look at a Lincoln, an FDR, a Reagan – whatever you think of the different men’s politics, successful presidents are almost quite good at using this toolkit.

    Just running down the list, virtually none of these are Trumpian traits. So in addition to the other obstacles he faces, it’s hardly surprising that he’s been such a flop as a chief executive. As any political scientist will tell you, the formal powers of the Presidency, outside of war-fighting, are quite limited. The lack of patience, focus and skills appeared immediately with Trump as he gravitated toward the easy and mostly meaningless sugar high of executive orders over the hard work of legislating. It’s no mystery why he’s failed so miserably. It’s no mystery why he’s now so focused on how … basically democracy, the machinery of democratic government is the problem, how it’s not “fair”.

    Not fair to who exactly? Trump, of course…………….

  60. 60
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @ruemara: Thanks. But I gave up the skateboard when I got to high school, so not much worry there.

  61. 61

    @Major Major Major Major: When did capitalism die? Was there a wake?

  62. 62
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: And the media didn’t push back at that display of petulance? Mulvaney’s response should have been met with knee slapping, bent over laughter from journalists/reporters. That would have been the only reasonable response to such childishness.

  63. 63
    Yarrow says:

    @ruemara: My point was, I thought the law for green card holders were required to carry it with them at all times.

    You are legally required to carry your green card with you if you are age 18 or older. Section 264(e) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that all permanent residents must have “at all times” official evidence of permanent resident status. A photocopy is not acceptable. If found guilty of this misdemeanor, the penalty set by law is a fine of up to $100 and up to 30 days in jail.

  64. 64
    RSR says:

    also, too: arts and PBS/NPR – NEA & Public Broadcasting Safe In House’s Budget Bill For Fiscal 2017

    The House Appropriations Committee’s fiscal year 2017 omnibus appropriations bill includes increased funding for the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities, as well as continued funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. All three had been eyed for elimination in earlier Donald Trump administration budget plans, potential moves that met with stern resistance among Democrats and Hollywood’s creative community.

  65. 65
    hovercraft says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Good for you!
    Now you can back to doing cartwheels around the house.

  66. 66
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    @Anonymous At Work:

    Funny, I was thinking a bloodhound would be more apt and concise.

  67. 67
    raven says:


    “The Pacific is a 2010 American television series produced by HBO, Playtone and DreamWorks that premiered in the United States on March 14, 2010.

    The series is a companion piece to the 2001 miniseries Band of Brothers and focuses on the United States Marine Corps’ actions in the Pacific Theater of Operations within the wider Pacific War. Whereas Band of Brothers followed the men of Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment through the European Theater, The Pacific centers on the experiences of three Marines (Robert Leckie, Eugene Sledge and John Basilone) who were all in different regiments (1st, 5th and 7th, respectively) of the 1st Marine Division.

    The Pacific was spearheaded by Bruce C. McKenna (co-executive producer), one of the main writers on Band of Brothers. Hugh Ambrose, the son of Band of Brothers author Stephen Ambrose, served as a project consultant.

    The miniseries features the 1st Marine Division’s battles in the Pacific, such as Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester, Peleliu, and Okinawa, as well as Basilone’s involvement in the Battle of Iwo Jima. It is based primarily on the memoirs of two U.S. Marines: With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa by Eugene Sledge; and Helmet for My Pillow by Robert Leckie.[3] It also draws on Sledge’s China Marine[4] and Red Blood, Black Sand, the memoir of Chuck Tatum, a Marine who fought alongside Basilone on Iwo Jima.[5][6]

    Eugene Sledge is one of my favorite people so I especially like the series. It is very brutal and realistic.

  68. 68

    @RSR: But Whory Woodruff will still keep shilling for the R party on the Pure BullShit Newshour

  69. 69
    bystander says:

    Watching French tv discussing the genealogical roots of the two candidates. Macron is a descendant of the founder of the Capetian dynasty. LePen is pure Bretonne on her father’s side. On her mother’s side she is descended from Caliphs in Spain and, ultimately, Mohammed. Oh the irony!

    Also watching a program making me wish I was in Barcelona.

    Any Juicers getting their pots and pans ready for Trump’s visit to the Intrepid?

  70. 70
    SFAW says:


    Failing Donald Trump Has a New Enemy: Democracy

    But any day now, ZEGS and Turtle will “flex their muscles.” to keep Shitgibbon from going “too far.”

    Fuck all of those traitorous motherfuckers.

  71. 71
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @hovercraft: I’d be satisfied simply with being able to brush my teeth or shave with my right hand.

  72. 72
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: My wife is deciding whether or not to remover hers.

  73. 73
    SFAW says:


    Now you can back to doing cartwheels around the house.

    And playing the violin.

  74. 74
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Now you’re forcing me to learn something new. Never heard of “Danthe’s law” before but it certainly is apt to the Trump regime. LOL.

    “If someone goes and announces that they’ve won an internet forum discussion, they probably very much haven’t.”

  75. 75
    Yarrow says:

    Upton Amendment: $8 billion giveaway to insurance companies; won't help majority of those w/preexisting conditions. We remain opposed.— AARP Advocates (@AARPadvocates) May 3, 2017

    AARP being opposed seems like it will be a problem for Republicans. Apparently AMA opposed too.

  76. 76
    rikyrah says:

    Team Trump grudgingly tells the truth about miners’ health care
    05/03/17 11:20 AM
    By Steve Benen

    About a week ago, when the White House was talking up the possibility of a government shutdown, Donald Trump argued on Twitter, “I want to help our miners while the Democrats are blocking their healthcare.”

    Whether the president was lying or ignorant was unclear, but either way, the claim was largely the opposite of the truth. Congressional Democrats were the ones fighting for a permanent fix to the retired miners’ trouble with health care coverage, but they faced Republican resistance.

    On this, Democrats prevailed. As part of the spending bill that’s set to become law this week, Dems, led in large part on this issue by Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), successfully included the sought-after protections and 22,600 retired miners will no longer have to worry about losing coverage. At the White House yesterday, however, Budget Director Mick Mulvaney voiced his annoyance with the idea that Democrats are boasting about their success.

  77. 77
    hovercraft says:


    When did capitalism die? Was there a wake?

    When corporations and investors forgot that in order to remain profitable if you aren’t a defense contractor, you need people with money to purchase your goods and or services. Stagnant wages are what’s hurting businesses, the obsession on cutting away all the fat leads to short term profits but does not advance the long term health of the company, you actually need to grow your customer/client base, and for that, those people need disposable income. Wall Street is so obsessed with the next quarters earnings they are destroying their future earnings.

  78. 78
    kindness says:

    And this is where we see that the effect of Fox News is seriously hurting the Republican Party from governing. I say this because for so long Fox echoed anything pumping up it’s champions (mostly Republicans) and denigrated it’s opponents (mostly Democrats & liberals) by any means required. Usually that meant by lying. Lying was easy and if enough of the bots at Fox repeated the lies the Republican base believed those lies.
    Now that Republicans are in control of an Administration they seem shocked that every American isn’t a purposefully ignorant Fox News junkie and they don’t seem to understand that they are dealing with an informed audience. I’m (not) shocked by this.

  79. 79
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @hovercraft: It always comes down to the bitter bitter bitter women, doesn’t it? Men are never bitter though because if Trump isn’t a bitter winner, I don’t know what the hell he is supposed to be. How many times does he get to bring up his Electoral College win without being called bitter? But Secretary Clinton answers honestly about the factors which led to her loss and she’s a bitter woman. Alrighty then.

  80. 80
    rikyrah says:

    GOP lawmaker: those with pre-existing conditions may need to move
    05/03/17 10:40 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Under the Affordable Care Act, the system for Americans with pre-existing conditions is pretty straightforward: they can’t be discriminated against, they can’t be denied coverage, and they can’t be forced to pay more for insurance. Under the Republican alternative, those protections are eliminated.

    The GOP model would empower states to scrap the guarantees for those with pre-existing conditions, forcing Americans who’ve had health issues – or those with chronic conditions – to pay exorbitant costs for care.

    In a welcome display of candor, one House Republican suggested yesterday that if you have a pre-existing condition, and your state tries to punish you, you may have to move to some other state. TPM noted:

    “People can go to the state that they want to live in,” Rep. Robert Pittenger (R-NC) told reporters Tuesday morning when asked if people with pre-existing conditions could be charged much more under the American Health Care Act.

    “States have all kinds of different policies and there are disparities among states for many things: driving restrictions, alcohol, whatever,” he continued. “We’re putting choices back in the hands of the states. That’s what Jeffersonian democracy provides for.”

    It’s quite a pitch. You have a heart condition? I hope you’re prepared to leave your job, sell your home, and move to some state that may offer the kind of protections that “Obamacare” already provides to the entire country.

    It’s all about congressional Republicans and Donald Trump giving you “choices.”

  81. 81
    Barbara says:

    @Yarrow: All those retirees in Arizona and Florida and Nevada who have not quite aged into Medicare yet but are living on a fixed or reduced income. And people who retire early often do so because they have health problems that make full-time work problematic. If there is any population that has benefited more from ACA, it is these people. Whether they are fully retired or just working part-time or consulting, basically, the ACA enabled them to have a lot more choice over their lives without eating up their retirement savings with health care expenses. How many more ways can I say “Fuck Paul Ryan and his non-existent soul”?

  82. 82

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s a term from an era (early-midcentury) when Marxist theorists figured capitalism was entering its final phase before the glorious people’s revolution™. More recently, people have recommended saying “later capitalism”.

    It does not, however, mean “rarr whoo blargh capitalist excesses I’ll just tack it onto a complaint to sound smart.”

    ETA: much like how ‘neoliberal’ does not actually mean ‘I hate Hillary Clinton’.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bystander: Ooopsie!

  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    @Bruce K:

    Is there anyone else who’s feeling burned out at the moment just by reading news feeds? I mean … I hesitate to use the word “evil”, because it kind of closes off debate and the possibility of bridging gaps, but there’s no other word that feels right to describe the United States Republican Party in 2017. And it’s tiring to face down evil day in and day out without letup.

    They’ve been evil since January 20, 2009, when they chose ECONOMIC TREASON against this country in the midst of the biggest economic crisis of this country since the Great Depression. They have shown unrelenting evil for the past 8 years…what they’re doing now is nothing new.

  85. 85
    Yarrow says:

    Millions of patients' coverage would be endangered by the latest version of the American Health Care Act. #ACA #AHCA— AMA (@AmerMedicalAssn) May 3, 2017

    There’s a nice graphic if you click through. Focuses on the medical bankruptcy side of losing coverage.

  86. 86
    Mike in NC says:

    Waiting for Trump’s Executive Order mandating segregated swimming pools and drinking fountains, because you just know Sessions and Bannon are working on that one.

  87. 87
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    Well, moving is a reasonable concession, isn’t it? Like how women who are sexually harassed should just quit, right? That’ll show ’em!

  88. 88
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @RSR: Big Bird and Ernie and Bert must be celebrating right about now. That’s great. PBS has been a bogeyman for Republicans for decades now.

  89. 89
    Barbara says:

    @rikyrah: When you don’t get everything you want, you say something like, “this bill shows what we can achieve when we all work together and I am glad to have brought some harmony to Congress.” Then, next year, you remind people of what you yielded to them the last time around to get something you really want. I never voted for Reagan but I do recall that he understood the value of letting other people feel like they had won. It game him a lot of tactical advantage at other times, when he really wanted something. Trump is an idiot.

  90. 90
    bystander says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That is actually the only song from a musical I really like.

    That’s odd. I was going to guess the bench scene.

  91. 91
    lollipopguild says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “Past my prime” is both good and funny.

  92. 92
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: Just move where? To Canada? It’s amazing that this is the party of “family values” and Evangelicals. How cold blooded do you have to be to not understand that everyone can’t just pick up and move due to a serious medical condition? It’s like Romney telling young people to borrow money from their parents to pay for their higher education. Repubs are so out of touch with the working and middle class.

  93. 93
    lollipopguild says:

    @Mike in NC: Sessions is working on bringing back legal slavery. “Property Rights’ don’t cha know.

  94. 94
  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bystander: Never seen it. I don’t like musicals. I think the only ones I’ve seen all the way through are the film versions of Lil Abner and Camelot. I do like opera.

  96. 96
    Chris says:


    Does he need a safe space?

  97. 97
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: Mine were specifically intended to be temporary. Since they protrude out the side of my arm and prevent me from rotating my wrist at all, they are unsustainable long-term. They aren’t for fusing bone, they are for allowing the ligaments to heal. Something kind of like this (but that’s not my x-ray.)

  98. 98
    Kay says:

    Our school levy passed last night 58/42. We whupped ’em :)

    “Shellacked”, as Obama would say.

  99. 99
    lollipopguild says:

    @Adam L Silverman: How about “A Little List” from “The Mikado”?

  100. 100
    germy says:

    Never trust a guy who calls himself ‘Mick’

    Just ask Brian Jones…

  101. 101
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @rikyrah: Oh, we’re going to hurt more than widdle Donald’s fee fees, when all is said and done.

  102. 102
    Chris says:


    It’s quite a pitch. You have a heart condition? I hope you’re prepared to leave your job, sell your home, and move to some state that may offer the kind of protections that “Obamacare” already provides to the entire country.

    At least until the next Republican candidate wins, and you have to do it all over again.

  103. 103
    JMG says:

    @Kay: Good for you and your side!

  104. 104
    JMG says:

    Trumpcare vote tomorrow. Either Ryan has the votes, or it’ll be like the last tomorrow back in March.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    Chris says:


    I have a bad feeling about this…

  107. 107
    Yarrow says:

    Latest call report:

    My Dem Rep – solid NO vote on AHCA. Called just to say thanks and stiffen spine.

    Freedom Caucus Republican Rep whose district my zip code is also in – staff still says he’s “reviewing the amendments” and no committed vote either way. Still surprised by that because I thought the FC members were all in for this mess.

    Republican Rep in next district over. I have contacts in this district and it’s listed on Swing Left as the district closest to me that is most vulnerable. I thought he would be less willing to go on record but his staffer said he’s a NO vote. Dammit. I told them I’d work extra hard to get him voted out of office if he votes yes on this bill. Fucker.

  108. 108
    JMG says:

    I’ve seen/read too many interviews with Trump voters who admit without Obamacare they’d be either financially screwed or even dead who say they’d still vote for Trump to think repeal will have much political impact. People whose hate means more to them than their own lives sure as hell won’t care about anybody else’s life.

  109. 109
  110. 110
    brendan in NC says:

    Mulvaney couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him C-A…

  111. 111
  112. 112
  113. 113
    Ian says:

    He is actually talking about Democratic voters. Apparently we wanted a shutdown.

  114. 114
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lollipopguild: No.

  115. 115
    SatanicPanic says:

    The president whining about things not being fair for him is the most pathetic sh*t I’ve ever seen in a president.

  116. 116
    NorthLeft12 says:


    American Airlines’ stock drops more after raising employee salaries than United’s does after brutally beating a customer

    Yeah, if there is one thing that Wall Street absolutely abhors [besides any regulation of their fraudulent scheming] it is above industry minimum pay rates for the vast majority of employees.
    Strange, that they never have this same reaction to the obscene pay that gets handed out to corporate executives. Mighty strange.

  117. 117
    Gindy51 says:

    @hovercraft: There is a pilot shortage coming and fast. American is trying to get out in front of it by raising salaries now to attract the most qualified applicants. If the shareholders had any brains, they’d be all for this but they are stupid. Just like Trumpkins are stupid going for the sort term “win” as opposed to their long term financial interests….

  118. 118
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Oooo, that’s a horse of a different color!

  119. 119
    Yarrow says:


    Trumpcare vote tomorrow. Either Ryan has the votes, or it’ll be like the last tomorrow back in March.

    I’m calling everyone I have any connection to. This affects me personally, as it does all of us. Some more than others immediately, but all of us will feel it.

  120. 120
    jacy says:


    I have a bunch of pre-existing conditions including cancer and thyroid disease. The state of Louisiana also won’t let me move to another state and keep my children without their father’s permission, which would not be forthcoming. So I can’t have both my life and children — I would have to pick one. FREEDOM!

  121. 121
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    OT but:

    Clinton, who received Planned Parenthood’s “Champion of the Century” award, said abortion is a health and core economic issue. But, she added, “anyone who wants to lead should also understand that fundamentally, this is an issue of morality.”

    “Let us respect people’s convictions,” she said. “But never back down from our commitment to defend the ability of every woman to make these deeply personal decisions for herself. I wish there were common ground, but I know for sure it is higher ground.”

  122. 122
    MCA1 says:

    @hovercraft: I don’t think that’s what he was saying. He was claiming that, in addition to what he saw as the unseemliness of “spiking the football” right in the face of his delicate flower of a boss*, Democrats didn’t really even have a good reason to be celebrating at all because they lost. How did they lose, you might ask? Well, according to Mulvaney, they lost because a bill was passed, when the Democratic base wanted a shutdown. Or something.

    It’s laughably transparent bullshit, of course, but Mulvaney’s not saying he thought the Republican base was disappointed by not having the federal gov’t, all branches of which their tribe controls, shut down over a temporary spending bill.

    * which didn’t happen, anyway, of course. As if Dem leaders are even invited on the networks anymore – it’s wall-to-wall GOP 24/7. I mean, if Nancy Pelosi spikes a football in an empty stadium, does it make a shitgibbon sad?

  123. 123
    Walker says:


    Really? Embry-Riddle has serious problems getting jobs for its graduates, who are at best stuck with meager wages flying for regional airlines. What is the evidence of a shortage?

  124. 124

    @JMG: Almost half the population has double-digit IQ’s. While many voters are idiots, not all of them are, and many elections (as we know too well) are won on the margins.

  125. 125
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JMG: @Major Major Major Major: It is unlikely they’d schedule the vote unless he thinks he has them. But you’d expect they’d schedule it immediately to prevent backsliding between now and tomorrow if he did.

  126. 126

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: More special interest social issue nonsense distracting from the glorious people’s struggle™.

    @Adam L Silverman: Good point, but I’m not going to read too much into Ryan’s actions given that he’s a fucking idiot who’s shown no parliamentary strategy at all.

  127. 127
    Mike J says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I don’t give a shit about people’s feelings about abortion. They can hate it all they want as long as it is legal and available to everyone.

  128. 128
    NorthLeft12 says:


    These fucking lying, snowflake, evil, anti-American, grifting, lying morons deserve to be cast out.

    I object to you referring to these guys as anti-American. Unfortunately for your country, they are what passes for Pro-American these days. And don’t even think of casting them out, unless you launch them into space, because no other country deserves these d’bags.

  129. 129
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @JMG: So maybe Ryan has the votes and Trump voters will get exactly what they want with the repeal and replacement of the ACA with something much worse. We’ll see tomorrow. And we’ll see if Trump voters like the AHCA so much once it is implemented and begins to hurt them and their loved ones.

  130. 130
    JMG says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You’d think so indeed. Especially since the last tomorrow, no, make that “this afternoon” was such a fiasco. The other problem is that it give McConnell time, if he’s so inclined as a self-protective measure, to call various House members and say, “we can’t pass this in the Senate” whether that’s true or not.

  131. 131
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SatanicPanic: He’s always been this way. Unless everything turns out favorable for him, it’s “unfair” to poor widdle Donald.

    Kid needs to be sent to bed without his supper, permanently.

  132. 132
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The last reporting I saw, as of six minutes ago, says no vote has been scheduled. So at this point I’m not sure anyone has any idea what is going on.

  133. 133
    jacy says:


    As somebody somewhere said, only those who have scored can spike the ball, therefore, Mulvaney’s admitting the Democrat’s scored……

  134. 134
    germy says:

    MJ Lee‏Verified account

    MJ Lee Retweeted AARP Advocates

    AARP says Upton amendment is a “giveaway to insurance companies” and that it won’t help most ppl w/ pre-existing conditions

  135. 135
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JMG: Republican senators are already saying that very publicly.

  136. 136
    Chris says:


    Pathetic, but not especially surprising. The “world is being mean to me” whine has become pretty much the only unifying belief not just of these politicians and businessmen but virtually every conservative I know.

  137. 137
    germy says:

    Adrianna McIntyre‏

    If AHCA passes the House, it’ll be because Paul Ryan conned his members
    (who seem more gullible than the public)

  138. 138

    @Adam L Silverman: Interestingly, from what I saw at least, they only really started saying it about this particular iteration of the AHCA this morning. Perhaps to walk their colleagues back from the cliff’s edge.

  139. 139
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s just sad. If anything the world has been way too kind to that man. How much of a baby do you have to be to go “I’m a billionaire*, I am married to a model, I am POTUS, and can go golfing any time I feel like it, but MAN ARE PEOPLE MEAN TO ME! IT’S SO UNFAIR”? Like, there’s no bigger baby in the world, is there? I can’t think of one.


  140. 140
    Chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    And we’ll see if Trump voters like the AHCA so much once it is implemented and begins to hurt them and their loved ones.

    They’ll blame the ACA. And the liberals whose furious opposition made it impossible for Trump to add those reforms that totally would have saved and helped their loved ones, like he wanted to because he’s such a stand-up guy.

  141. 141
    donnah says:

    I just got a FOX update on my newsfeed that there’s a Twitter campaign against Stephen Colbert for his treatment of Trump. I just visited the CBS website to state my support for Colbert and his show. He speaks for me and millions of other Americans who loathe Trump, and we need him.

  142. 142
    Yarrow says:

    FUCK. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

    So where do things stand?Well, I just filed a story titled "Republicans Could Actually Pass This Health Care Bill."— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) May 3, 2017

  143. 143
    Gindy51 says:

    Google it, I don’t want to bounce the post into moderation but there are dozens of articles about it and my husband was a pilot for Delta and he has heard the same thing from his still flying pilot buddies. here is a short blurb from the article about the military and US airlines:
    U.S. military officials next month will meet with their counterparts in the airline industry to discuss how the Pentagon and commercial airlines can work together to deal with a nationwide pilot shortage, the head of Air Mobility Command said Wednesday.

  144. 144
    The Moar You Know says:

    Really? Embry-Riddle has serious problems getting jobs for its graduates, who are at best stuck with meager wages flying for regional airlines. What is the evidence of a shortage?

    @Walker: Then Embry-Riddle is a shit school. Sorry, but that’s the only explanation, because the pilot shortage is real and is already here.

    My father retired back in 2006 after 40 years with US Air (the last three as their Master Pilot), antecedent airlines (PSA) and the US Air Force. Been flying and teaching all his life. Since then, he’s still flying, not with passengers (obviously) but training pilots up to the Embraer for Delta. He has the freedom to work when he wants. He’s finally taking a few months off after working nonstop for the last four years, there’s so much work that he could do double shifts if he were allowed. They told him “name your price” and he threw out an insane figure and they didn’t even twitch, they just said “done”. He’s getting calls almost every day begging him to come back. They are utterly overwhelmed with students and with Delta begging them to get them out the door and into planes as fast as humanly possible.

    who are at best stuck with meager wages flying for regional airlines.

    Always the case for the first two years. I remember when my dad did it when I was a kid. If you survive that the employment situation gets much better very quickly.

  145. 145
    SFAW says:

    Somewhat OT, but apparently the Last Honest Man in DC, a/k/a James Catspaw Comey, said he felt “mildly nauseous” about the idea that he maybe just kinda sorta might have influences the outcome of the election.

    No, you fucking asshole, you are BIGLY nauseous, as in: you induced nausea (in others) in a MAJOR way. You might be mildly nauseated, but you’ll get over it.

    [Pedant/Anti-pedant alert: Although people currently use “nauseous” interchangeably with “nauseated,” it’s pretty much in the same category with people using “bemused” when they mean “amused.” Yes, I know will tell me otherwise. Fuck them. Why, yes, I AM cranky, what’s it to ya?]

  146. 146
    Mike J says:

    @donnah: As one tweeter I read last night said, the #fireColbert campaign will go about as well as the #boycottHamilton campaign did.

  147. 147
    JMG says:

    So Matt Fuller of HuffPost, an ace Congressional vote counter, just put up an article saying amended Trumpcare could pass. Or maybe not. I don’t mean to make fun of a good reporter, but I think I had that figured out. BTW, he says what David Anderson said months ago — it either passes by the narrowest of margins or loses by a bigger margin.

  148. 148
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Capitalism can stay late longer than you can stay solvent.

  149. 149

    @Matt McIrvin: You mean markets, right? There is more to capitalism than the stock market.

  150. 150
    jacy says:


    Exactly. I don’t think there’s any massive reading of tea leaves going on. Everybody involved has a reason to lie and obfuscate. Nobody want’s to go on records unless they absolutely have to, because for most MoC, there’s not an actual upside to having to actually vote. They just want to be able to point fingers at somebody else after the fact. Either it passes by a vote or two or it never even gets to a vote.

  151. 151
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Another free way to reach Congressional Representatives (via fax).

  152. 152
    Yarrow says:

    Updated list. Get on the phones! Call your Rep even if they’ve already stated their position on this bill. Let them know you’re out there.

    Updated whip list as of 1:30 pm. The "Lean Yes" category is getting bigger, the "No" category is getting smaller.— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) May 3, 2017

  153. 153
    TenguPhule says:

    “I think the president is frustrated with the fact that he negotiated in good faith with the Democrats and they went out to try and spike the football to make him look bad,”

    The first thing that came to mind when I saw that.

    It was garbage, but it had been cooked by an expert. Oh, yes. You had to admire the way perfectly innocent words were mugged, ravished, stripped of all true meaning and decency, and then sent to walk the gutter for Reacher Gilt, although “synergistically” had probably been a whore from the start.
    -Going Postal

  154. 154
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    Nate Silver says:

    The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election
    So why won’t the media admit as much?

    Here’s the link

  155. 155
    TenguPhule says:

    @hovercraft: I don’t think people and especially the media are taking this seriously. They think its another bad joke at Trump’s expense.

    And that is a serious mistake.

    When they speak about tyranny, believe them.

  156. 156
    JMG says:

    I am trying to think of the last major bill that became law after passing the House by less than 10 votes or so. There was Medicare Part D in 2004, but that GAVE people something. There was the Clinton budget in 1993. Before that, I think there was only the Selective Service Act renewal in 1941.

  157. 157
    germy says:

    I’ve always been fascinated with “Then And Now” photos. Comparing historic photos of buildings and rooms with contemporary photos of the same places.

    Yesterday I was browsing pictures of the oval office. It became depressing when I compared shots of JFK and FDR in the oval office, in front of those windows, with more recent photos featuring the… uh, shitzgibbon.

  158. 158
    sheila in nc says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I enjoy opera too — but there are great moments in musical theater that you just gotta smile — you don’t like this one?

    (Hope I embedded it properly, I’m hopeless with all this)

  159. 159
    Yarrow says:

    There's a rumor floating around that Republicans could vote as early as TONIGHT on health care.They don't want to let it hang out there.— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) May 3, 2017

    Not good.

  160. 160
    Chris says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election
    So why won’t the media admit as much?

    Because the media’s year-long relentless drumbeat coverage of “both sides do it, but liberals are worse” is the only reason the election was within Comey-range in the first place.

  161. 161
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mike J: Or #boycottrogueone

  162. 162
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sheila in nc: Never seen it before.

    Also, I’ve edited your comment to fix it so that the embedded link doesn’t capture the reply button.

  163. 163
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Chris: Which is but one reason I have my nym.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  164. 164
    bystander says:

    Just watched Comey on CNN. Yuck. I take it all the repubs stayed home.

    France Musique offers some great webradio, and I was happy to learn this week, they were offering one channel of music from films. Did they have to call it “La BO”? The French…

  165. 165
    sheila in nc says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for fixing! The link is the opening to Guys and Dolls, the musical that was based on stories from Damon Runyon and Walter Winchell. It’s a period piece but it’s hysterical. The movie version has great work from Frank Sinatra and also Marlon Brando actually sort of singing.

  166. 166
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Chris: Also their pandemic CDS, which they’ve had for a quarter century. Ever since Broder threw a conniption fit accusing Bill and Hillary of “trashing this town, which is not their town, it’s OUR town.”

  167. 167
    trollhattan says:

    Good point. I’ll add that Trump seems to spike the proverbial ball after nothing at all, like a special team player doing it after a fair catch.

  168. 168
    aimai says:

    @hovercraft: I think he’s referring to the democrats there, its very confused. He is trying to argue that the democratic base wanted a shut down, so averting one is a “win” for trump.

  169. 169
    TenguPhule says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I am slowly coming over to your point of view. At this point trials are increasingly seeming like a waste of time. Their Twitters could simply be used as their epitaphs.

  170. 170
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sheila in nc: No worries, I’ll get with Alain again about trying to come up with a fix for that problem that is actually a fix.

    As for musicals: I appreciate everyone’s enthusiasm, but I do not enjoy them. As a result I do not watch them. The only reason I ever watched the film version of Camelot is I was a huge Arthurian legend buff growing up. The only reason I watched Lil Abner is that I had a sinus and chest infection one year while I lived in Scotland, we only had four channels on the TV, and the TV was old enough that it didn’t have a remote. I wasn’t feeling well enough to get up off the couch and change the channel, and it was the next thing on. I also wound up watching Deliverance and snooker for the same reasons. Neither of which I would recommend to anyone.

  171. 171
    D58826 says:

    OMG on TWitter – the woman who laughter at Sessions has been convicted. Faces a year in jail.

    On the other hand lets see if this gets as much media as the 400k speech – the Obamas will give 2 million dollars to fund summer jobs programs in Chicago.

  172. 172
    SFAW says:

    @sheila in nc:

    also Marlon Brando actually sort of singing.

    With the exception of SInatra in the movie version, the male leads all sucked as singers. Sam Levene as Nathan Detroit in the original Broadway version made Brando sound like Pavarotti by comparison, and Robert Alda wasn’t much better as Sky. The female leads in the play were much, much better.

  173. 173
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But…but…Little Shop of Horrors!

  174. 174
    Chyron HR says:


    the Obamas will give 2 million dollars to fund summer jobs programs in Chicago.

    Tsk-tsk, apparently they haven’t heard that white working class lives are what REALLY matter.

  175. 175
    jacy says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That would be an interesting conversation starter — what’s the worst thing you ever watched because you were too sick to change the channel.

  176. 176
    D58826 says:

    @jacy: back in the day – the test pattern:-)

  177. 177
    zhena gogolia says:

    Re post title — does that go for Jagger? Not that I trust him, but I don’t dislike him.

  178. 178
    zhena gogolia says:


    Eye of the Cat. Vomited all the way through it.

  179. 179
    sheila in nc says:

    @jacy: I’ve never been too sick to change the channel away from a reality TV show. And that includes shingles, lung cancer, bowel obstructions, and having been hit by a car while running.

  180. 180
    Bess says:


    But Whory Woodruff will still keep shilling for the R party on the Pure BullShit Newshour

    If you don’t like to hear so much of “the other side” on NPR then get liberals to fund them.

    Right now NPR is forced to soft pedal their criticism of the right because they really need federal funding.

  181. 181
    randy khan says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    There’s no convincing some people. Mr. Silverman has other redeeming qualities.

  182. 182
    Yarrow says:

    We really need a new thread for updated healthcare vote info.

    KEEP CALLING!! Sounds like they’re barely holding onto 216 votes by the skin of their teeth; we need to knock a few loose!!— ☪️ Charles Gaba ✡️ (@charles_gaba) May 3, 2017

  183. 183
    SatanicPanic says:

    @zhena gogolia: My biggest takeaway from the Keith Richards autobiography- the real jerk in that band was Keith Richards.

  184. 184
    Barbara says:

    @Yarrow: There are 18 nos and 8 lean nos, and together that would be sufficient but it is not outside the realm of possibility that 4 could go one way and 4 the other, giving Ryan enough votes. The people I would lean on the most would be the Issas and Stefaniks of the world, who are clearly so petrified they won’t even admit to leaning in a particular direction. They don’t want a vote at all. They don’t want to be on the record. The only way to avoid a vote is to tell Ryan that they won’t vote yes. They are thus particularly susceptible to constituent pressure.

  185. 185
    TenguPhule says:

    @zhena gogolia: From your illness or the show?

  186. 186
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @D58826: For what it’s worth:

    Several of the jurors indicated they disagreed with the decision of Capitol Police Officer Katherine Coronado to take her into custody because of the laugh.

    “We did not agree that she should have been removed for laughing,” the jury foreperson stated. Some jurors indicated they believed Coronado made a mistake.

    “The officer, she was a rookie officer, and I think it was her first time involved in an arrest,” another juror stated. “Make of that what you will.”

    The jurors indicated they felt they had to convict Fairooz because of the way the laws are written, with yet another juror describing them as “so broad.”

    At least three jurors said it was fair to say they felt forced into convicting her. “There’s almost no way that you can find them not guilty,” one said.

    “There’s not a lot of wiggle room,” said the jury foreperson.

  187. 187
    Yarrow says:

    @Barbara: It sounds like the wavering Republicans are telling different people different things.

    This series of tweets sounds like they’re still working on it. Start from bottom.

    Kevin McCarthy working David Valadao and Jeff Denham. And McHenry is working Webster.

    Looks like there are still enough holdouts.

    Matt Fuller‏Verified account @MEPFuller 20m20 minutes ago

    Patrick McHenry working Kevin Yoder.

    Curbelo stops by, has a quick word, then scurries away.

    McHenry back to working Yoder.

    Matt Fuller‏Verified account @MEPFuller 29m29 minutes ago

    Patrick McHenry now talking to Peter Roskam now.

    Roskam knows the game. He was once chief deputy whip himself. McHenry succeeded him.

  188. 188
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: And yet a police officer can get a mistrial for murder after being caught on camera shooting a fleeing black man in the back.

  189. 189
    Chris says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    At least three jurors said it was fair to say they felt forced into convicting her. “There’s almost no way that you can find them not guilty,” one said.

    “There’s not a lot of wiggle room,” said the jury foreperson.

    What the fuck are you talking about? Just refuse to vote to convict. It only takes one juror doing that. How hard is that?

  190. 190
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jacy: You not only don’t want to know, I’m not sure you’re cleared for that information…//

  191. 191
    D58826 says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Funny how juries have no difficulty finding cops innocent of shooting black men in the back in spite of what they saw on the video. Or the hung juries for the Bundy mob.

    There is a solution – it’s called jury nullification. Not an idea solution but when the state exceeds it authority in such a ridiculous way it may be the only option.

  192. 192
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @randy khan:

    Mr. Silverman has other redeeming qualities.

    That is a vicious lie and you take it back right now!

  193. 193
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Chris: I know, WTF. These people are morons. If I had been on that jury I would have told everyone in the room save yourselves some time, I will never vote to convict.

  194. 194
    Spanky says:

    @Chris: IANAL, but seems to me their comments are fodder for a mistrial. Sounds like their instructions were, uh, lacking.

  195. 195
    The Moar You Know says:

    If you don’t like to hear so much of “the other side” on NPR then get liberals to fund them.

    Right now NPR is forced to soft pedal their criticism of the right because they really need federal funding.

    @Bess: Utter horseshit. NPR has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of the GOP’s propaganda arm since 2003, and that didn’t change one bit when liberals ran the show. If anything they doubled down. I hope the GOP defunds them completely.

  196. 196
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    I’m surprised Issa gives a rip. He’s one of the wealthiest cats in Congress, he won’t run for president, he could just buy Bermuda and sip margaritas for the next 25 years. I don’t think it’s principles either with him.

    Then again, the Koch boys could probably spend a million a day on trifles and never run low. As Bond said, the world is never enough.

  197. 197
    jacy says:


    That’s been the most demoralizing thing about the last year, not finding out that there are racist dumbasses here — knew that. But finding out just how many racist dumbasses there are. People in my real-life circle have started remarking that they just look at people differently now: in the grocery store or out and about. Nobody gets the benefit of the doubt anymore. You just don’t assume somebody is a decent person.

  198. 198
    LAO says:

    @Chris: Lawyers aren’t allowed to argue for nullification — all we can do is imply it. If jurors’ don’t independently understand that they have that “right,” then defendants are screwed.

  199. 199
    Ksmiami says:

    @hovercraft: Therein is your answer. To be a Republican today is to have shut down any cerebral cortex processing and yes they are too dumb to function. These people for the most part are fat, proudly stupid, spiteful and destined to lead short lives. Fuck them.

  200. 200
    Chris says:


    Being able to say “no, I am not giving a citizen a jail sentence for jaywalking, even if the law technically entitles me to; it is fucking ridiculous that this even came to trial in the first place; there is nobody in this entire court who didn’t have better shit to do than to piss away a day watching this joke unfold, including watching paint dry and watching grass grow” is exactly what jury nullification is there for.

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    So would I. And the same if it had been a Republican disrespecting a Democrat. This shit belongs in absolute monarchies and banana republics.

  201. 201
    jacy says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    All I know is that when I listen to NPR in the car on the Monday morning trek with the boys, one of the funders listed at the end of the program is Koch Industries……

  202. 202
    LAO says:

    @Spanky: No mistrial. It’s over at the trial level. Standard jury instructions tell jurors not to decide a case based on sympathy or bias. Jurors are instructed, specifically, that its doesn’t matter whether the juror thinks the law is just, but that jurors are obligated to apply the law as it is.

  203. 203
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:

    @Chris: Yep.

  204. 204
    Chris says:


    Oh, I know. But how the fuck do jurors not know that they can totally do it? Heck, every legal drama presents it as a common and legitimate target, usually glossing over how rare and how risky to the lawyer it is – for once, you’d think this is a time when pop culture would’ve helped.

    Then again, there’s always Dave Berry: “the Sixth Amendment claims that all citizens have the right to trial by a jury composed of twelve people too dumb to get out of jury duty.”

  205. 205
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @LAO: isn’t jury nullification pretty well known and oft discussed in the right wing fever swamps? I’m sure the concept is common knowledge to Bundyites while barely known to the sane people, to wit: liberals.

  206. 206
    Spanky says:

    @Spanky: Scratch “mistrial” and substitute “appeal”, dammit.

    I told ya IANAL.

  207. 207
    LAO says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Agreed. A great dilemma for defense attorneys — how many crazy right wing nut jobs do you let on a jury (of course, must have white defendant)?

  208. 208
    LAO says:

    @Chris: I don’t get it either.

  209. 209
    Ksmiami says:

    @Chris: I feel sorry for the kids but at this point, these dumb motherfucking rt wing voters should be impacted by their voting preferences. And guess what too? Michigan and Ohio will have bigly auto plant shut downs in the summer. I used to be a nice person btw, but I don’t want to live in a country where I am disgusted by 50% or more of the people

  210. 210
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    The jurors indicated they felt they had to convict Fairooz because of the way the laws are written, with yet another juror describing them as “so broad.”

    Which a competent defense attorney could have argued as unenforceable due to the law being too vague.

    And a competent jury could have used that to justify not convicting her.

  211. 211
    LAO says:


    Which a competent defense attorney could have argued as unenforceable due to the law being too vague.

    Not to defend some defense attorney I’ve never met, but most courts’ constrain our right to argue about law because its clearly used by defense attorneys as an end run around the “no nullification” arguments.

    When an individual is unjustly prosecuted and convicted, its not always the defense attorney’s fault.

  212. 212
    TenguPhule says:

    @LAO: Vagueness of a statute is a legitimate *basic* defense. Law 101 level.

    Either defense never brought it up or the jury was too dense to realize what it means.

  213. 213
    LAO says:

    @TenguPhule: I guess we just do things differently here in NY — where legal arguments re: vagueness are made to the court prior to trial in a motion to dismiss, because the (1) judges are judges of law and (2) juries are the judges of facts.

  214. 214
    Gravenstone says:

    @rikyrah: I saw that yesterday and my first thought was, let’s game his argument out. Assuming enough people leave a state (say NC) due to pre-existing conditions and the corresponding lack of coverage, then that means the population will diminish (in the absence of others without those conditions choosing to move into the state). If the population diminishes enough, then the affected state stands to lose a Congressional district (or more) following a census confirming the reduced population. Which means that the good Congressman might just find himself out of a job, if his district were the one chosen for elimination. So the long game might just bite him in his white, overprivileged ass.

  215. 215
    Shalimar says:

    @Mike J: Technically, she laughed at Richard Shelby for trying to claim Sessions isn’t a racist.

  216. 216
    Gravenstone says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: But Wilmer had the stronger position regarding abortion rights ….. fucking Novo Russkyia asshole and his inane “arguments”.

  217. 217
    Gravenstone says:

    @Walker: Heh, there’s a name from the misty past. Started my convoluted collegiate sojourn there in the early 80’s. Unfortunately, I was only there a term before realizing I had selected the wrong campus for my chosen ambition (Prescott when I needed Daytona Beach). Ah well, life ultimately had other plans in store for me …

  218. 218
    Bess says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    NPR has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of the GOP’s propaganda arm since 2003

    How clever of you to figure that out.

    I’ve been a regular listener to NPR for over 40 years. I remember quite well when Republicans began using funding as a tool to make NPR more “Republican friendly”.

    A “wholly-owned subsidiary” is Bernie-bro level bullshit. If you actually listen to NPR and end up believing that then you must be wearing “no liberal stuff” elimination ear filters.

    I hope liberals up their level of financial support. Put Republicans in the position of needing to provide some amount of funding so that NPR doesn’t turn into a left-wing version of Fox News. I want to hear from both sides. As long as what I hear is the truth.

  219. 219
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Did I miss the ACLU being involved in this case? If not, where were they?

  220. 220
    Shalimar says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I have not even read the law in question, but if it is as broadly written as the jurors claim, an organization like the ACLU needs to fund the appeal of a violation of her 1st Amendment rights to free speech. All she did was laugh.

  221. 221
    Bess says:

    @jacy: NPR corporate contributors are frequently corporations that are trying to help out their image.

    Watch how the next ‘Archer Midland Daniels’ that gets caught screwing a goat suddenly becomes an NPR contributor. And, yes, AMD has been there and done that.

    BTW, there’s no prohibition against good folks companies contributing. Let them know that you’d like them to step up to the plate.

  222. 222
    Shana says:

    @SFAW: The Nathan Lane/Faith Prince version is stellar.

  223. 223
    LAO says:

    @Mnemosyne: The ACLU doesn’t generally get involved in trial level criminal cases.

    @Shalimar: I would expect the ACLU would file an amicus brief in an appeal.

  224. 224
    Bess says:

    @Shalimar: Did she get busted for laughing or for laughing unusually loudly and disrupting the proceedings?

    I guess I’m asking if she was louder than the asshole who screamed YOU LIE during PBO’s speech. His outburst wasn’t a chargeable offense. She must have really bellowed.

  225. 225
    TenguPhule says:

    And nobody brought up Mick “Crocodile” Dundee.

    I’m disappointed with everyone.

  226. 226
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    Because he’s not a guy who calls himself “Mick.” He calls himself “Crocodile.”

  227. 227
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    Best band name ever: “mediocre white male butthurt” … from up top this thread.

    Sigh. It’s just that kind of a day.

  228. 228
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Hoist by my own petard!

  229. 229
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    I am disturbed by your violent imagery, even directed at yourself.

  230. 230
    Chris says:


    I’m not so sure you are. IIRC, “Crocodile Dundee” was the name he was popularized under both in and out of universe, but in day to day life, everyone just called him “Mick.”

  231. 231
    TenguPhule says:

    @Chris: You’re right, curse my faulty memory of a cherished old movie I do not yet have a bluray of.

  232. 232
    Shalimar says:

    @Bess: She was in the back of the room. There is no evidence in the video that either Shelby or anyone else on the committee heard her. The cop who busted her obviously felt it was loud despite the fact that it clearly disrupted no one.

  233. 233
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m not one to excuse the iniquities of capitalism, but yeah, you’ve got a point here. ISTR learning in Am. Hist. about Pullman’s cramdowns on his workers (to preserve profits); Upton Sinclair’s _The Jungle_ (I think) had a ton of it. And I’m sure Erik Loomis of LGM has written about a million “This Day in Labor History” posts about this. It’s not late-stage. It’s always been like this, and it’ll never change. That’s not horrendous. It’s just the way it is. And it’s why the rights of every worker are always in conflict with the rights of every owner. Even when workers in one context are owners in another.

  234. 234
    Chet Murthy says:

    @ruemara: If you don’t carry the document itself, please keep a hi-res copy in your phone, and email copies to at least a couple people to whom you can reach out. Seriously. Remember that ICE was checking IDs of people coming off a domestic flight just recently. Sure, probably nothing’ll happen. But no point in taking any more risk than one must.

    ETA: I see Yarrow has dug up relevant law. Ugh. I went my -entire- childhood never carrying my green card around. If this gets enforced in any way, shape, or form, it’s … well, uh, I guess, a sign that yeah, America’s sure changed. Not that I thought otherwise, of course. Boy, it sure ain’t the country I grew up in.

  235. 235
    Chet Murthy says:

    @hovercraft: while you’re right on the merits (indeed, workers must have $$ to buy products, contra Say’s law), owners&investors HAVE NEVER believed this, and NEVER WILL. The famous case that is adduced to argue that owners once believed it, is Henry Ford’s River Rouge plant. I’ll turn it over to Erik Loomis at LGM

    On January 5, 1914, Henry Ford announced his famous $5 a day wage to his workers. Ford is often lauded for his efforts here and he was surely forward-thinking in creating this salary. But this post will also challenge his reputation as a good employer, for Ford expected plenty in return from those employees, far more than any employee should have to accept. …. Turnover was a massive problem for employers through the early 20th century. … Ford decided he needed to do something about this turnover. So he began to think about what would become known as welfare capitalism. He thought that if he paid his workers a bit more and helped them take care of their basic needs, they would live with the fact that the work was so mindless.

    The post is fascinating, and typically for Erik, he cites his sources. It was an awakening for me — working in the tech industry, I saw (and continue to see) parallels between what Ford was doing in 1914, and what Google and other “forward-thinking” tech companies are doing today.

    It’s got nothing to do with “soft paternalism” and everything to do with getting those profits.

    ETA: I’m not a Red. Far from it, and certainly my life-history would argue I should be amongst the capitalist vanguard (*grin*). But it’s clear as day, that the only thing that’s ever checked the power of owners, is the threat and fact of labor resistance, insurrection, and eventually (as in the Great Depression) revolt. And I say this in full knowledge that I’d be soon up against that wall, if it came to it.

  236. 236
    Chet Murthy says:

    @rikyrah: Heh. I remember when “welfare”in Rochester NY was a bus ticket to NYC. From what I read more-recently, it’s not so different in Vegas (bus ticket to LA’s Skid Row).

  237. 237
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Spirit of Christmas Present: My time with you is at an end, Ebenezer Scrooge. Will you profit from what I’ve shown you of the good in most men’s hearts?
    Ebenezer: I don’t know, how can I promise!
    Spirit of Christmas Present: If it’s too hard a lesson for you to learn, then learn this lesson!
    [opens his robe, revealing two starving children]
    Ebenezer: [shocked] Spirit, are these yours?
    Spirit of Christmas Present: They are Man’s. This boy is Ignorance, this girl is Want. Beware them both, but most of all, beware this boy!
    Ebenezer: But have they no refuge, no resource?
    Spirit of Christmas Present: [quoting Scrooge] Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

    I think we all know the answer to your question, PK. He intends that they hie themselves to California, or NY, or some other bleeding-heart state, and camp out on the pavement until they die. And if they can’t get there, then they can die in an emergency room.

  238. 238
    J R in WV says:

    @sheila in nc:

    I’m not that crazy about Guys and Dolls – but the last vacation we took to NYC there was a revival of South Pacific at Lincoln Center, small house, great cast, original script. Fabulous.

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If you don’t think there’s something rare and wonderful about South Pacific you just haven’t seen the right cast, and understood the storyline prior to seeing the show.

    I’ve seen the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, it was interesting, well done, not my cuppa tea. Wife sat next to a group of Italians on tour, they spent the whole show dissing how pathetic it was compared to “their” Grand Opera back in Milano, in Italian so no one would know. Wife’s mother taught languages, so wife picks things up. Said farewell to them in Italian after the applause (was appropriately ridiculous!) was over. Flower throwing from the audience to the stars… I thought that was made up. But no, it happens every night, apparently.

    We had dinner there, the whole shebang. The champagne was fun, and made the next act better. Still not my thing. Piano concerto, cello concerto or symphony, that’s my big city thing, and the jazz and blues clubs.

    And I have called my republican congressmen, little good it will do. Makes my skin crawl, but I do it. I once had to shake hands with Manchin, technically worked for him, skin crawled as he walked around the big room getting closer and closer. Yetch… Congealed evil, walking around like a people.

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