The Republican Health Care Plan: ER’s For The Poor

In their ongoing effort to make America sicker and to ensure that more Americans die before their time, Trump and his Republican party have decided to spend more money to cover fewer people less well in Florida:

The shift involves funding that the federal government provides to help hospitals defray the cost of caring for low-income people who are uninsured. Under a deal with the State of Florida, the federal government has tentatively agreed to provide additional money for the state’s “low-income pool,” in a reversal of the previous administration’s policy.

The Obama administration balked at providing more money to help hospitals cope with the costs of “uncompensated care” for people who could be covered by Medicaid. If Florida expanded Medicaid eligibility, the Obama administration said, fewer people would be uninsured, and hospitals would have less uncompensated care.

This is, of course, not a health care policy. It’s simply the latest accomplishment in the fundamental goal of Republican politics since 2009:  anything the Black guy did must be undone.

“Florida is just being paid by taxpayers not to expand Medicaid,” said Andrew M. Slavitt, the acting administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services from March 2015 to January of this year. “The low-income pool is essentially a slush fund,” Mr. Slavitt said, “and it’s a really inefficient way to pay for medical care.”

But hey, maybe it could it work, right?

Come on! This is the Florida Republican establishment we’re talking here.  If it ain’t nailed down, it’s getting stolen:

Two House Democrats from Florida, Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Kathy Castor, said that after receiving the commitment of federal funds, the Florida Legislature was now moving to adopt a budget that includes cuts in state Medicaid spending. “It’s outrageously irresponsible,” Ms. Wasserman Schultz said.

Ms. Castor said that “it would be more efficient to expand Medicaid so people would have coverage, rather than running up huge bills at hospitals that need to seek reimbursement from the low-income pool.”

Ladles and Jellyspoons:  your modern Republican party.  It’s better to pay more money to achieve less than it is just to make government work with the tools it has.  There is no compromise with these folks.

Ni shagu nazad!

Image: Sebastian Vrancz, Soldiers plundering a farm during the Thirty Years’ War, 1620

ETA:  Sorry, David, for poaching on your patch!






178 replies
  1. 1
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Ladles and Jellyspoons: your modern Republican party.

    And they keep getting elected so that they can screw over the 99% so there’s that.

  2. 2
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The important thing is that the GOP sticks it to “those people”.

  3. 3
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    rob delaney‏Verified account @ robdelaney 6h6 hours ago
    RT & use this tool to contact “moderate” @ HouseGOP Reps to tell them you’ll destroy their career if they vote Yes.

    I’d say call your MoC whether they’re on the list or not, but those seem to be the current targets seen as movable and/or scare-able. They list Freylinghausen as a committed yes, which surprises me. He’s in (I believe) a leafy-suburb dominated district of northern New Jersey and him coming out against the bill last time was seen as its death-knell

  4. 4

    There’s a complication to repealing Obamacare: it may violate international law.

    But Paul Ryan and the administration probably see that as a feature, not a bug.

  5. 5
    Mnemosyne says:

    Ms. Castor said that “it would be more efficient to expand Medicaid so people would have coverage, rather than running up huge bills at hospitals that need to seek reimbursement from the low-income pool.”

    Welcome to America, where we would rather spend an insane amount of money on last-ditch attempts to save someone’s life than pay an ongoing lesser amount for the care that would have prevented their life from being endangered in the first place.

  6. 6
    jl says:

    Diss Obama, and/or naked patronage politics, since brother Trump would like to do brother Scott a solid.

    I’d call them both con people, but the administration is ‘thinking about it’ on a change to the First Amendment, and if they are consistent, they should be thinking about adopting ex post facto laws too. Priebus’ warning about the First Amendment deserves another mass protest and march on DC.

    Perhaps another example is high-speed rail. California gets no funding, but if Texas wants one, hey, we’ll pay for it.
    I think that gem was in the Trump fantasy budget proposal.

  7. 7
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    This will help those ‘economically anxious’ people who voted for Dolt 45. I am sure about that. I am sure Dolt will blame Obama for that but whatevs . This is also of course because Ricky Scott is a hospital medicare fraudster CEO. I don’t know how these assholes look at themselves in the mirror. They’re so evil.

  8. 8

    You get what you vote for. Dissing immigrants is not going to make you healthy.

  9. 9
    Felonius Monk says:

    Was this idea “cooked up” in the White House meth lab?

  10. 10
    gene108 says:

    Once Republicans are done looting the country, we will be happy working from 9 pm to 5 am, so our Chinese overlords can make it home in time for dinner and the evening news.

    The unhappy folks will live under an overpass, without a shower curtain rod with which to roast their sparrow over an open fire.

    *****************************

    Republicans have weakened America’s international standing. Bush, Jr. did it and Trump is doing it. Yet the white men, who overwhelmingly support Republicans, view their policies as “strong”, even though they make us weaker domestically and abroad.

  11. 11

    @gene108: Its not just the Rs though, look at BS and his army of the stupid and privileged.

  12. 12
    Ruckus says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile:

    I don’t know how these assholes look at themselves in the mirror. They’re so evil.

    Because they are so evil they don’t actually appear in mirrors. You’d think they are money vampires but No, they are regular vampires, sucking the blood out of everything. They consider democrats to be delicacies, which is why they go after us first. The tax credit stuff is protection money so the rich don’t turn on them but actually it just encourages them.

  13. 13
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    I am hate watching Maria Antoinette Bartiromo. She’s such a vapid bimbo Republican POS.

  14. 14
    Ruckus says:

    @Felonius Monk:

    Was this idea “cooked up” in the White House meth lab?

    That’s giving them way too much credit. Use it, purchase it, hire someone to build a meth lab in the basement, steal it even, but make it? If they had tried the WH fire of 1812 would have been the equivalent of the lighter at a Styx concert. All we’d see now would be a smoldering pile of history.

  15. 15
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    @Ruckus: they’re supposed to be relgious nuts. Do they not think of harvesting the crap they sow?

  16. 16
    lollipopguild says:

    @gene108: Many of the people who voted for tRump see a person who is loud and stupid and racist as “strong”. They like bullies because many of them are bullies themselves or would like to bully “those people”.

  17. 17
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile: I have spent the whole day doing chores, shopping and off and on watching the first three Jurassic Park movies. Love them (especially the first one, which is a classic).

    I’d lose my few remaining brain cells if I hate watched Bartiromo for even a few minutes. Her recent “interview” with Trump was such a wankfest it’s a wonder she wasn’t on her knees for its duration.

  18. 18
    Ruckus says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile:
    You are half right. They are fucking nuts.
    Religious has nothing to do with it. The problem is the ability to think logically, rationally is not in their genes. Or jeans either. And it’s really not in their fucking tiny little minds. The only thing religious about them is they have sold what passes for souls to the fucking devil. For fucking pocket change.

  19. 19
    Ruckus says:

    Tom, you just know that the next step is to put out an EO removing the requirement that ERs treat everyone who walks or is carried in the door.

  20. 20
    NYFM says:

    @Ruckus: Why would they do that? The hospitals now have a $1.5 billion fund which is pretty much going straight into their bank accounts through their ER services. The Hospital corporations love this. As the article says it’s a gigantic slush fund.

  21. 21
    ms_canadada says:

    @lollipopguild: What the H E double hockey sticks is wrong with these American politicians??? Why don’t they want to have a healthy populace? I was brought up to understand that we are our brothers’ keeper.
    BTW, doesn’t Israel, which is highly subsidized by the U.S, have healthcare for all?
    Time for a revolution, America! To the ramparts! Can you hear the people sing?

  22. 22
    debbie says:

    I think “pool” is Trump’s word of the day. I heard some interview today where he talked about creating a “high-risk pool” to cover the elderly who would be losing Medicare and pre-existing conditions protections under the GOP plan.

    I predict “pool” will be the next overused word from the White House.

  23. 23
    Mike in NC says:

    Last month my doctor wanted me to go to the ER, and he called for an ambulance for the three mile drive. The county billed me $875 as they didn’t have my insurance info. I provided that and am waiting to see what happens.

  24. 24
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gene108:

    FWIW, it depends on one’s coast — here in CA, it would be a mere 6 pm to 3 am shift.

    Unless they abolish time zones like they did in mainland China.

  25. 25
    Mike in NC says:

    @ms_canadada: Yes, Israel is basically a cradle-to-grave welfare state, but don’t remind the religious right in America about that.

  26. 26
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ms_canadada:

    There are still many, many people in the US who think that ill health is a moral issue, and if you get sick, it must be because you did something wrong and are now being punished. Seriously.

  27. 27
    NeenerNeener says:

    I mentioned it in an earlier thread today, that as of December 2016 the mutual fund managers were expecting insurance companies & pharmaceuticals to do well under Republican rule, but hospitals to get screwed because so many people would lose their insurance.

  28. 28
    JPL says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile: Let her eat cake and off with her…. never mind.!

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    @Ruckus: That’s part of the Reagan era bill EMTALA. In the olden days we actually cared about patient dumping. IMO, Emtala actually makes health care a right, and if I were a dem running I would thank Reagan for passing the bill. .

  30. 30
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @JPL: let her eat the most beautiful chocolate cake you ever saw…

  31. 31
    burnspbesq says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    But Paul Ryan and the administration probably see that as a feature, not a bug.

    Mulvaney: “Piss on you, ah’m werkin’ for Donald Trump!”

  32. 32
    Another Scott says:

    The Democrat Machine has a dry sense of humor:

    Witness:

    The Democrat Machine‏ @DemocratMachine

    The Democrat Machine Retweeted The Independent

    That’s reassuring

    The IndependentVerified account @Independent

    Donald Trump on if he’ll start a nuclear war: ‘I don’t know. I mean, we’ll see’ http://ind.pn/2qi9CeF

    10:23 AM – 30 Apr 2017

    Yeah, “we’ll see” I guess… :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  33. 33
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mike in NC: Romney would have advised you to just borrow that money from your parents. No big deal. /s

  34. 34
    Mary G says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile: That was the first thing I thought of: if they expanded Medicaid, Gov. Scott’s fellow thieves couldn’t skim nearly as much money for themselves.

    The North Korea thing is starting to feel like 2003 redux, with Kim in the role of Saddam Hussein.

  35. 35
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile: Calvinism is one helluva drug.

  36. 36
    ms_canadada says:

    @Mnemosyne: I feel so sad for my American friends and family. I can’t imagine having to pay to see a doctor, and dying from lack of care. It’s so cruel.
    However, my right-wing yahoo brother who lives in ‘ell hole (h/t Corkey St. Pierre) Nevada, (Parumph) is a staunch supporter of Hair Drumpf, and has become a right wing X-tian nut job. He’s so sick, and his medical care costs so much money, that he couldn’t make it to Canada for his daughter’s wedding! I can’t believe we grew up in the same family and I’ll likely never see him again, despite my daughter living in L.A. (whom we visit regularly). Can’t stomach the idiocracy.

  37. 37
    Ruckus says:

    @NYFM:
    Fewer dead others. And they will find a way to steal the money and watching others die.

  38. 38
    Gvg says:

    Actually Rick Scott the former insurance executive wanted Florida to take Medicare expansion but couldn’t get the regular state professional politicians to go along. They wouldn’t authorize. When he was first elected he ran as a non politician outsider who would clean up or something. In spite of his known fraud. Anyway he discovered running on beating up on professional politicians netted him a legislature nominally the same party that didn’t like him and overrode his attempts to do what he had campaigned on. For awhile nothing got done. Scott however isn’t stupid nor senile and he learned. Now he is a pretty standard republican and they accept him. Did not even mention prior anti polititian position when he ran for re election. Not clear what his original voters think. If Trump was as smart as Scott we would be in a lot more trouble.

  39. 39
    Suzanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: My ex-MIL believed that. She was specific about it, too. She thought that “if you can’t love, you have a heart attack. If you’re an asshole, you’ll get colon cancer.”

    But when her mother died of heart trouble, and when she herself developed chronic health problems and broke multiple bones infalls, that was all just bad luck.

    For anyone who remembers what I have said about my ex-husband and how he is all FUBAR, this gives a small amount of insight as to why.

  40. 40
    Suzanne says:

    @ms_canadada: Americans don’t want to help one another. I mean, they want to be selective who they help. They like theGoFundMe-type solutions because they can discriminate.

    I blame evangelical Christianity specifically. It has such an emphasis on the self rather than on the whole.

  41. 41
    Gvg says:

    @Mary G: actually Scott knows they could skim more if his legislature would let us take expansion. His prior company did exactly that and got it’s wrist slapped. He has tried. Can’t over come the professional politicians stupid habitual positions. He actually worked in the healthcare business. The GOP thinks it knows business but they are deluded.

  42. 42
    Tokyokie says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile: It’s easy to look in the mirror when you don’t cast a reflection.

  43. 43
    Felonius Monk says:

    Donald Trump —- Making America Sick Again, One EO at a Time.

  44. 44
    mai naem mobile says:

    NPR did a piece on Prince. Gawd,I still can’t believe he’s dead.

  45. 45
    Sloane Ranger says:

    O/T but Raw Story has just put up a report that Dumpy has invited that Philippines guy, Duerte? for a visit. Apparently the State Department was NOT in the loop.

    Is he looking to build hotels over there or a fan crush or is it a reward for the guy’s public statement re Obama’s parentage?

    Or, I suppose, all of the above?

    Sorry just realised this is old news. Been busy this weekend.

  46. 46
    germy says:

    @Sloane Ranger: WaPo calls that guy “a strongman”

    They’re so polite.

  47. 47
  48. 48
    skerry says:

    @Sloane Ranger: There are already Trump properties in the Phllippines and Ivanka sells her stuff there too. Both of the elder sons are on video saying they plan to expand there.

  49. 49
    lgerard says:

    The cool kids are now all pretending that they don’t know who Sebastian Gorka is

  50. 50
    germy says:

    @lgerard: He’ll still be in government. Just not in the white house.

  51. 51
    Mnemosyne says:

    OT but, hey, it’s dead around here right now. I bought myself an Amtrak ticket to ride the rails from LA to San Luis Obispo next Saturday. I get on at 8 am on the LA end, arrive in SLO around 2 pm, have a couple hours to wander around, and then get back on to return to the LA area by around 8:30 pm.

    I have not been working on my novel, so this is my own little writer’s retreat — just me, my laptop, and about 8 hours of no or crappy wi-fi. I splurged a little and got the business class ticket so I would be guaranteed a power outlet.

    Now to go buy some Gin-Gins at ruemara’s suggestion to prevent possible motion sickness.

  52. 52
    mai naem mobile says:

    @Sloane Ranger: I don’t know if anybody watches Madame Secretary but this seasons first episode had Elizabeth being patted on her ass by a Duterte kind of character and her turning around automatically from her CIA training and smacking him in the face. I think the episode was also to make a statement on Dolt and his poussez grabbing.

  53. 53
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Sloane Ranger:

    Yeah, burnspbesq and I were talking about that in one of the downstairs threads. Well, I was talking. Burnsie was losing his lunch.

    Did not know, however, that the State Department was in the dark about the invitation, although I guess I’m not surprised. I mean, whyever should the President of the Fucking United States of Fucking America bother to notify the fucking Department of State that a crude, bullying, vulgar, authoritarian thug has invited a crude, bullying, vulgar, authoritarian thug to come visit?

  54. 54
    Mike in NC says:

    @Sloane Ranger: Duterte is an authoritarian scumbag who has people murdered at will. Trump sees him when he looks in the mirror.

  55. 55
    Mnemosyne says:

    @germy:

    Wish I could say I was surprised but, yup — the “alt-right” insinuated themselves into the Sanders “movement,” co-opted it, and then showed their true colors. And yet we still have Sanders supporters who refuse to see that they got played by the right wing.

  56. 56
    germy says:

    @Mnemosyne: I wonder if the same drama will play out in 2020, 2024, etc.

    Now that they’ve seen the level of stupidity they’ll be emboldened to ratf**ck again and again.

  57. 57
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @skerry: Ah, enough said!

    @mai naem mobile: Haven’t watched the programme but if it happened in real life I would love to see some female leader give Dumpy a slap on the chops if he tried anything.

  58. 58
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    poussez

    “la chatte”, en francais.

    Or so we were taught in high school.

  59. 59
    rikyrah says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    that sounds like a wonderful trip

  60. 60
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Some day chickens may come home to roost, or vengeance may cut a wild indiscriminate path.
    As we sew so shall we reap.

  61. 61
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Poussez-chat, poussez-chat,
    Ou a vous been?
    J’ai been à Londres
    A voir la Reine.

  62. 62
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I love train travel. That sounds both exhilarating and relaxing. Have fun!

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    I did a longer trip up to San Francisco in November (and got to hang out with Major^4, ruemara, and Darkrose when I got there) and the section from Ventura to San Luis Obispo is absolutely gorgeous. The train runs right next to the ocean during that part — closer than the freeway goes!

    My one worry is that I got a little motion sick last time, which is why ruemara suggested the Gin-Gins. I’m hoping it happened last time because I ended up walking around on the train more than I planned, but I guess we’ll find out. I’ve always wanted to take the Coast Starlight from LA to Seattle, so this is also to figure out if I’m developing motion sickness in my middle age. 🚂

  64. 64
    Mike G says:

    It’s better to pay more money to achieve less than it is just to make government work with the tools it has.

    Gratuitous cruelty is job one for Republicans. They hate government, so inflicting sadism is their primary enjoyment apart from looting.

  65. 65
    gene108 says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think the younger white racist crowd has been co-opted by Putin. And though Putin put a lot of effort into ginning up fake news on the American Right, he also targeted the hell out of the American Left.

    The DNC being all powerful and rigging the election for Hillary is thanks to President Putin, probably along with all the “facts” about how horrible the Clintons are because of stuff like the 1990’s crime bill and various right-wing conspiracy theories swallowed whole cloth by Bernie supporters.

    It’s Putin’s America, and will be for the foreseeable future.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @gene108: Sometimes I’m amazed we even won the popular vote.

  67. 67
    El Caganer says:

    @lgerard: Well, this old dude remembers – Gork and Flynndie was a smash hit all over alt-right Eurpe.

  68. 68
    Goku says:

    @gene108: At least until Putin takes a dirt nap. Or a nuclear holocaust occurs

  69. 69
    Ohio Mom says:

    @gene108: “It’s Putin’s America, and will be for the foreseeable future,” inspired me to look up how old Putin is: 64.

    I was hoping older, he has a lot of years left. It’s a long “foreseeable future.”

    He is only a couple of years older than me, and considering that gave me a pang of feeling like a failure. He’s taken over the world and what have I accomplished?

  70. 70
    Goku says:

    @Ohio Mom: I’m hoping he either has a stroke or somebody shoots him. And its captured it on video. I hope the same fate for his “comrade” Trumpov

  71. 71

    It is not Putin’s America ffs, get a hold of yourselves.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I found somebody else’s video of the southbound Coast Starlight near Santa Barbara. IIRC, it’s that close to the ocean pretty much the whole way from Ventura to SLO.

  73. 73
    Tazj says:

    @Ohio Mom: He’s 64? For some reason I thought he was younger, like he was still in his fifties. I must be thinking of all those crazy shirtless pictures. Sorry for bringing those up. I’m sure you still have your conscience, unlike him, which might give him an edge when seeking world domination.
    @Suzanne: Well you know, when you give your money to GoFundMe and bake sales you won’t be tainted by having your money go to someone unworthy.

  74. 74
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Mike in NC: In Ontario, the most an Ontario resident with a health card (which is just about everyone) can be charged for an ambulance is $45. In a lot (if not most) of cases, it’s fully covered

  75. 75
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I get on at 8 am on the LA end, arrive in SLO around 2 pm

    As much as I LOVE trains, 6 hours for that trip is outrageous. No wonder they are not more popular.

  76. 76
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Le chat. Also, le vagine. Logical language, French.

  77. 77
    El Caganer says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not quite ready to buy into this story yet. http://www.moonofalabama.org/2.....lists.html

  78. 78
    lgerard says:

    @germy:

    He’ll still be in government. Just not in the white house.

    That is assuming they find a department that will take him.

    I can see him becoming the “Senior Terrorism Analyst” for the Department of Weights and Measures, or some such.

  79. 79
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    Actually, I have the timetable slightly wrong — it’s scheduled for 4 hours and 45 minutes. But there’s always a possibility that we have to get shunted aside for a freight train, because freight trains take priority over passenger trains out here. 😒

    And it looks like we turn north at Grover Beach and away from the ocean — about 25 minutes cross-country from there to SLO.

  80. 80
    Chyron HR says:

    @El Caganer:

    Of course not, the Great One already decreed that white nationalism doesn’t even exist.

  81. 81
    randy khan says:

    I’ve read this post three times, and I keep saying to myself “they can’t be so obsessed with sticking it to poor people that they would do this” and then saying “Don’t be silly – they *are* that obsessed.” I don’t want that kind of politician in my world.

  82. 82
    Mnemosyne says:

    @El Caganer:

    Except that she’s documented as having been a strong Sanders supporter who turned to Trump after the primary.

    Take away the hand gesture, and she’s still an “alt-right” jerk who deliberately helped split Democrats last year. The hand gesture is just the kerning that tries to discredit the other, well-documented parts of the story.

  83. 83
    Redshift says:

    @skerry: And Trump’s business partner is a close friend of the dictator.

  84. 84
    GregB says:

    @lgerard:

    It is really outrageous how Obama forced Flynn and Gorka on Trump.

  85. 85
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Actually, I have the timetable slightly wrong

    My cheeks are pink also, I was thinking in the wrong direction: San Juan Capistrano. If you want more walk around time before returning, that is a good place to relax.

    The line was built by Southern Pacific back when they were the local rail monopoly. The goal for the route was to collect as much freight west of the big valley as they could.

  86. 86
    debbie says:

    @Mike in NC:

    Yeah, but does he play golf?

  87. 87
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yeah, and it’s not as if Cernovich is anything other than a RWNJ mouthpiece.

  88. 88
    SFAW says:

    @Goku:
    Careful

  89. 89
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Pick a seat that faces forward. Much easier on the equilibrium.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    They’re doing some track upgrades in the southbound direction, so I think getting to San Juan Capistrano is a little weird right now — they bus you between stations at some point along the line.

    But, yes, SLO is north of LA, about halfway between LA and SF.

  91. 91
    cain says:

    @Mike in NC: Hope everything is okay!?

  92. 92
    cain says:

    I swear to God that they count on people like us to fight the good fight while getting the money from the right. If we stopped and let them have their way… I think people will quickly figure out that reality is very different than what the rhetoric was. What pisses me off is that in a generation or two, if we manage to push this off we will be doing it again. :/

  93. 93
    Mnemosyne says:

    @debbie:

    I think they design it so all (or most) of the seats face forward.

    On my last trip, I got stuck near some talkative people when I was trying to write, so I ended up walking back and forth a lot more than I planned or wanted to. This time, I remember to bring my earbuds or headphones!

  94. 94
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    But, yes, SLO is north of LA, about halfway between LA and SF.

    And while you’re in SLO, you can always stop for dinner at Madonna’s

  95. 95
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    On my last trip, I got stuck near some talkative people when I was trying to write, so I ended up walking back and forth a lot more than I planned or wanted to.

    There are various techniques to deal with people like that. Of course, most of them are better-suited for use by a low-class asshole (such as yours truly), than by someone like you.

  96. 96
    BBA says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, standing next to Cernovich and giving an “OK” sign is bad enough.

    I know how these fuckers work, next they’re going to claim words like “and” and “the” as white power slogans so we’ll gradually give up the whole dictionary to them.

  97. 97
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Welcome to America, where we would rather spend an insane amount of money on last-ditch attempts to save someone’s life than pay an ongoing lesser amount for the care that would have prevented their life from being endangered in the first place.

    Because exciting medical emergencies are sexy, while ongoing care is boring and practical.

  98. 98
    Redshift says:

    @cain:

    If we stopped and let them have their way… I think people will quickly figure out that reality is very different than what the rhetoric was.

    I think that’s optimistic. From what I’ve seen of the people who trust the right wing propaganda networks, if we let them have their way, those people would be very easily convinced that their suffering is because of Obamacare collapsing just like they said it would.

  99. 99
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Green cards.

  100. 100
    TenguPhule says:

    @Redshift:

    those people would be very easily convinced that their suffering is because of Obamacare collapsing just like they said it would.

    They already blame Obamacare for hampering their ACA care.

    I wish I was joking.

  101. 101
    Mary G says:

    @Mnemosyne: I am also a train freak who has always wanted to take the Coast Starlight all the way up. My friend Rob took his two college-age kids on it and they got a bit antsy, but he loved it. Also on my bucket list is the train across the Canadian Rockies.And bullet trains in Japan and Europe.

    San Juan Capistrano is a great stop for nature lovers, particularly this time of year. They have a mostly-native-plants butterfly/hummingbird garden about half a block from the depot, and it is full of wonderful things to look at. I saw a brilliant blue dragonfly the size of a hummingbird there the other day.

  102. 102
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SFAW:

    They were part of the group I was with, so I couldn’t say anything without a lot of social awkwardness. Fortunately, I discovered that Amtrak sells earbuds at the snack bar for just this situation!

    It was still annoying, though. It was supposed to be a NaNoWriMo group to get some word sprints done, but this one guy had forgotten his notes and spent his time yammering away. Ugh.

    And I only have about 2 hours for my layover, so getting over to the Madonna would be tricky. I’m going to downtown SLO instead since it’s only about a half-mile walk from the train station.

  103. 103
    TenguPhule says:

    @MikeBoyScout:

    As we sew so shall we reap.

    Well then I’m in trouble. I can’t thread a needle worth a damn.

  104. 104
  105. 105
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mike in NC: Trump wants to be him.

    A fascist, popular with his own people at the moment, able to dictate the deaths of his enemies, spit in the face of his political opposition and give a two finger salute to his judicial branch.

    Of course, someone should have told Trump the guy also gave us a big middle finger in exchange for selling out to China.

  106. 106
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mary G:

    G gets antsy on a car trip that lasts too long, so I’m not sure how he’d do on a long train trip. If this goes okay for me, Phase II would be to take a weekend trip to SLO on the train and see how nuts it drives him to be on one for 5 hours each way.

    The dream trip to Seattle would include getting one of the sleeping compartments on the way up, spending a few days in Seattle once we get there, and flying home.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry, temptation got the better of me.

  108. 108
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mary G:

    The North Korea thing is starting to feel like 2003 redux, with Kim in the role of Saddam Hussein.

    Except North Korea hasn’t been weakened by sanctions or had most of its military bombed to scrap metal a decade earlier.

    Other then that and the nuclear weapons, not that much difference.

  109. 109

    @Mary G: I took the train down there in Dec., nice little station. I spent most of my time visiting the mission.

  110. 110
  111. 111
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    They were part of the group I was with, so I couldn’t say anything without a lot of social awkwardness.

    Well, only if you don’t want to be ostracized. But point taken.

    but this one guy had forgotten his notes and spent his time yammering away

    At times like that, it’s helpful to have someone who will “take one for the team,” and engage Numbnuts in a conversation, but make it a walking thing. (As in, walk to the other end of the train.) Easier said than done, of course.

    And I only have about 2 hours for my layover, so getting over to the Madonna would be tricky. I’m going to downtown SLO instead since it’s only about a half-mile walk from the train station.

    “Go for the food, stay for the decor.”

  112. 112
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    He’s trying to start another fight with you. Ignore him.

  113. 113
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: He is trying to pull your chain on immigration. He is also easing into his bloody civil war fantasies.

  114. 114

    @TenguPhule: There is also the little detail that our ally’s capitol city is about 30 miles from the border; but other than, that not much of a difference.

  115. 115
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You live in a really beautiful part of the world. I’ve been to SF and LA a couple times each, but have never really seen California. Would love to do that Amtrak trip, or the PCH with someone else doing the driving so I could just soak in the scenery.

  116. 116
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SFAW:

    I’ve always wanted to see the men’s room that has waterfalls as the urinals. Apparently they have signs outside it warning guys that random women could wander in at any time in case they’re pee-shy.

  117. 117
    SFAW says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    There is also the little detail that our ally’s capitol city is about 30 miles from the border; but other than, that not much of a difference.

    And one wonders how many Infiltration Tunnels have gone undetected.

  118. 118
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    or the PCH with someone else doing the driving so I could just soak in the scenery.

    I’d love to do that drive.

  119. 119
    raven says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Three of our friends ran the Big Sur Marathon today!

  120. 120

    @Mnemosyne: @Omnes Omnibus: I was too tired to notice. Off to solve my crossword puzzle. Good night!

  121. 121
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’ve always wanted to see the men’s room that has waterfalls as the urinals.

    Don’t recall the signs, but the waterfall was …. interesting. Laughed my ass off. Did not have Mrs. SFAW come in to take a look, because she is a much classier person than I.

  122. 122
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @raven: Did they run into any Confederate Generals?

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It’s a gorgeous drive, but a little nerve-wracking. There’s not much to keep you from plummeting off the cliff into the ocean if your concentration breaks. G and I kept having to switch off because we were both white-knuckling it in his Corolla.

    It would probably be different in a nice sportscar that’s built to handle the curves.

  124. 124
    SFAW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    or the PCH with someone else doing the driving so I could just soak in the scenery.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’d love to do that drive.

    If you use a rental, try to make sure you get a convertible.

  125. 125
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve seen The Graduate. An Alfa Romeo Duetto would do nicely.

  126. 126
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SFAW:

    I kept thinking about Joe Ranft’s death the whole time, because that had happened a couple of years before we drove up there and I knew people who knew him. But he was on a different stretch of PCH further north IIRC.

  127. 127
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ve seen The Graduate. An Alfa Romeo Duetto would do nicely.

    Especially if you got a spare $40K or so to burn.

  128. 128

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    @Omnes Omnibus: Cool your jets, you’ll have wait until they build a new bridge there. Portion of the road just south of the state park is closed.

  129. 129
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: For that money, I would go with a new Mini Cooper JCW as a second car. It would be great for a drive like that.

  130. 130
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Torrential rain just started here.

  131. 131
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We were out there around Spring, 1998, and were completely oblivious to the perils. I imagine if we did it again, as a now-old-fart, whose reaction times have gotten worse, I’d end up as one of those people who gets yelled at for holding up traffic.

  132. 132
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I would go with a new Mini Cooper JCW

    You are dead to me.

  133. 133
    Timurid says:

    @Mike in NC:

    That line had better damn well hold.
    I have no doubt whatsoever that Trump will commit mass murder on American soil if he has complete freedom of action.

  134. 134
    Elizabelle says:

    New thread? The topic of this one is too depressing.

    @Mnemosyne: I love the PCH. And have a great train ride. When is your trip?

  135. 135
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: You are a Jets fan. Opprobrium from you is like being savaged by a sheep.

  136. 136

    The drive up Angeles Crest is also nice and twisty and turny. I noticed when I was looking at my pics from yesterday that you can see water is Silver Lake near DTLA. It’s been dry due to construction for the last year or so. One of my favorite pics of DTLA was the day after I got the NX500 was taken from Beacon Hill and was the last time I saw Silver Lake with water in it. They started refilling it last week.

  137. 137
    Mnemosyne says:

    And now I’m going to whine for a minute: I have another asthma-related migraine, which is making me think that my new generic for Singulair isn’t working as well as the previous one.

    Yes, I know that generics are supposed to be chemically identical, but I think we all know by now that they aren’t. And any doctor or pharmacist who still doubts that needs to go read up on the Wellbutrin generic fiasco from about 10 years ago.

  138. 138
    Chris T. says:

    @SFAW: Yeah, I did that drive when I was younger, back in the early 1990s … like me, my car is now big/fat/heavy and I’m not sure we’d be up for it :-)

  139. 139
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I’m going next Saturday. If I get any good pictures, I’ll send them to Alain for On the Road.

  140. 140
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You are a Jets fan. Opprobrium from you is like being savaged by a sheep.

    I suppose that was what passes for wit among your fellow Cheeseheads.

    And just you wait: the Jets have a HUMONGOUS deal in the works to fix their QB problem: it’s for two hot prospects — Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell. Between those two … well, SB LII is a foregone conclusion.

    PS: Leaf is out of prison, so it’s all good.

  141. 141
    chopper says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    it’s a four or so hour drive, so 6 hours on a train ain’t bad.

    ETA: and that’s ignoring traffic

  142. 142
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: IIRC, which is a dicey proposition, “le chat” refers to a cat while “la chatte” refers to, uh, you know….

  143. 143
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Le vagine?

  144. 144
    Elizabelle says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    @SFAW:

    re the Alfa Romeo:

    And the mechanic follows behind, with his/her jetpack.

  145. 145
    chopper says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    there isn’t much by the train station, a meh pho spot and a decent coffee/sandwich place. then again it’s not like downtown SLO is known for its haute cuisine, or maybe it’s just me. decent Mediterranean place at the west end of downtown if you don’t mind the owner talking your ear off for a half hour.

  146. 146
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: c’est vrai

  147. 147
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne: Pics would be good.

    And maybe you and Ms. Cat should do another movie blogpost soon. I think we need lighter fare. I’m awake, middle of the night here, because just kinda out of sorts over Trump.

    So I think it’s bad to leave an informative post like this one up for too long. We need pets and Ms. Cracker’s contributions too.

  148. 148
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Elizabelle: FPers are fickle. We are as likely to get a deep Adam post as a light hearted one.

  149. 149
    efgoldman says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    There are still many, many people in the US who think that ill health is a moral issue

    Hell, my 86-year-old MIL, on Medicare and Medicaid, who’s late husband’s kidney disease was treated by Medicare and Medicaid, who’s late son’s very rare, aggressive cancer was kept at bay for five years with state of the art treatments, on Medicare and Medicaid, who’s daughter in law (late son’s wife) received treatment and rehab (and still is) for a major stroke from Medicare, Medicaid and the ACA STILL doesn’t understand why anybody goes to a doctor, and why she should pay for it.
    Thank FSM talked mrs efg out of that mind set many decades ago.

  150. 150
    Elizabelle says:

    This was funny, if you are seeking diversion. Slate’s suggestions to the Fuck the Fucking New York Times on which other columnists they might hire, now that they’ve brought on climate change denialist Bret Stephens, in an attempt to reach out to Red State America.

    It’s hard out there for a Camel. Hire Joe.

    You know what other industry thrived by pretending the science wasn’t settled? 36.5 million Americans smoke cigarettes, more than have even heard of Simpson-Bowles. And yet you have to go back to the 1960s to find classic Times reporting like “Cigarette Threat Called Unproven: Philip Morris Says Smoking Has Psychological Value.” Don’t 36.5 million Americans—and potential New York Times readers—deserve to be told that scientists aren’t sure if they’re hurting their health, just like New York Times readers who vote for Republicans deserve to be told that scientists aren’t sure if we’re destroying our planet?

    Although the funniest thing might be Clueless Liz Spayd’s justification for adding Bret Stephens to the FTF Fascist-Enabling NY TImes brand. Will put that up next. Public Disinformation Editor.

  151. 151
    Elizabelle says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: True, but in times like these, a few extra pets and ephemera cannot hurt. Readership capture.

  152. 152
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Elizabelle: Isn’t it pretty to think so?

  153. 153
    efgoldman says:

    @germy:

    Anyone see this?

    For Wilmer is an honourable man;
    So are they all, all honourable men–

  154. 154
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I’m procrastinating on setting up a new blog under my romance novelist pen name — once I do, I want to do a review of Moonlight, because it’s a truly romantic film with a happy (or at least optimistic) ending. I would cross-post that at SC’s place as well, but I need to get my shit together.

  155. 155
    Elizabelle says:

    The Liz Spayd column, justifying why FTFNYTimes brought Bret Stephens aboard. She’s awful. I can’t even excerpt, for the sheer insanity of her post.

    Seeking More Voices, Even if Some Don’t Want to Hear Them
    [you know, us pointy-headed libtards, some of whom actually subscribe to her damn paper]

    With her usual tone deafness, Spayd writes:

    Stephens’s coronation produced a fiery revolt among readers and left-leaning critics. They rummaged through his columns for proof that he is a climate change denier, a bigot or maybe a misogynist. More complaints came into the public editor’s office than at any time since the election, with many readers threatening to cancel their subscriptions. (I’m told relatively few actually have.)

    Is that a dare?

    In this case, as for any David Brooks column, you will prefer to scroll through the reader comments.

    The most recent one posted:

    How and why YOU continue to have a voice at the Times is the biggest need for objective analysis at the newspaper. Your constant drumbeat, insisting on false equivalencies in the face of FACTS, is a disgrace to the journalism for which the Times has historically stood for.

    The most liked comment:

    It is wonderful to have a diversity of opinion but all opinions need to be grounded in facts. I shudder to think of a newspaper that would consider Infowars as just another valid opinion.

    The Times is heading in that direction. Full speed ahead.

  156. 156
    efgoldman says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    It was still annoying, though.

    The Boston/NYC/DC trains all have designated “quiet cars”. They’re very popular.

  157. 157
    Elizabelle says:

    @efgoldman:

    So she was a big Bernie supporter? Gadzooks. From germy’s link:

    Freelance journalist Mike Cernovich and Cassandra Fairbanks, a reporter for Russian news outlet Sputnik, posed for a picture behind the podium in the White House briefing room. In the photo, they are making a hand sign that can be used to signify “white power.”

    …. Ms Fairbanks, however, claims the hand gesture was not a reference to the white power movement. She pointed to her partial Puerto Rican heritage as evidence that she is not a white supremacist.

    The hand sign is the innocuous “A-OK”, so it seems pretty innocent. And completely deniable. Except:

    Alt-right journalist Lucian Wintrich, a writer for The Gateway Pundit, sparked outcry when he flashed the symbol in a similar picture at the White House in February. Notorious alt-right personality Milo Yiannopoulos also frequently flashes the symbol.

    The resurgence of the symbol may be traced back to a popular alt-right meme, known as “smug Pepe,” which began circulating on alt-right, pro-Trump message boards in 2015. Mr Trump often uses the symbol when speaking, explaining its significance with the president’s supporters.

    The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) characterises the symbol as a “racist hand sign.”

    …. Ms Fairbanks joined notoriety when she moved from supporting Senator Bernie Sanders to supporting Mr Trump for president. She now frequently speaks out against Islamic terrorism and the Black Lives Matter movement. Her employer, Sputnik, applied for White House press credentials last month.

    Mr Cernovich is the founder of the men’s rights blog Danger & Play, and author of the book “MAGA Mindset: Making YOU and America Great Again.” He received White House press credentials on 25 April.

  158. 158
    efgoldman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    There is also the little detail that our ally’s capitol city is about 30 miles from the border

    I would like to think that Mattis and McMaster remind Citron Shitweasel multiple times a day that the first boom North of the border will lead to Seoul being rubble within hours.
    But just because they tell him doesn’t mean he processes the information in any realistic way.

  159. 159

    @Elizabelle: The New York Times is garbage.

  160. 160
    ArchTeryx says:

    So once again tomorrow my head is on the chopping block. They really won’t rest until I and all like me are dead. Hate is a hell of a drug.

  161. 161

    @efgoldman: I know Metrolink does, I think AmTrak out here does as well.

  162. 162
    Mike J says:

    Bradd Jaffy‏ Verified account @BraddJaffy 41 minutes ago

    Budget deal:
    —No border wall $
    —No $ cuts for ‘sanctuary cities’
    —Keeps funding Planned Parenthood
    —More defense $

  163. 163

    @efgoldman: This is not an abstract thing with me, being that most of my wife’s family lives in Seoul.

  164. 164
    BBA says:

    @Elizabelle: The ADL page actually refers to a different hand sign – making a “W” with one hand and a “P” with the other. Far less common or innocuous.

    Can we not take the obvious bait here? It stinks.

  165. 165

    @Mike J: Sounds like the greatest negotiator in the history of mankind got everything he wanted.

  166. 166
    Elizabelle says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yes. It is garbage.

  167. 167
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BBA:

    The controversy over the supposed hand signal is designed to conceal the fact that an alt-righter was paid by Russia to pretend to support Sanders and then switch to Trump.

    There’s plenty of evidence for that even if the purported hand signal is not correct.

  168. 168
    Elizabelle says:

    @BBA: The Independent was kind of slippery on that, weren’t they? They definitely imply the A-OK is on that list. And it is not.

    “Some white supremacists, particularly in California, may use a two-handed hand sign in which one hand forms the letter ‘W’ and the other hand forms the letter ‘P,’ to represent WP or ‘White Power,’” an entry in the ADL’s hate symbols database reads.

    However: the AOK is clearly used by Pepe, and it can’t be that much of a coincidence to have all these alt-right yucks making that symbol, three of them now behind a lectern in the White House.

    I guess now finding photos of Obama spokespeople making an AOK is going to be a thing …. sigh.

  169. 169
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne: Eye on the ball. Good girl.

  170. 170
    Elizabelle says:

    @BBA: Why are the alt-right weasels using the same hand signal Pepe the Frog uses?

  171. 171
    Origuy says:

    @Mnemosyne: I took the Coast Starlight from San Jose to Tacoma. North of Sacramento was really rough. I was asleep and woke up after dreaming I was in an earthquake. On the other hand, we went by Mount Shasta at sunrise.

  172. 172
    efgoldman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    This is not an abstract thing with me, being that most of my wife’s family lives in Seoul.

    I know, I know! And in a sensible world, we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
    But in a sensible world, modern democracies don’t vote this way.

  173. 173
    efgoldman says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Why are the alt-right weasels using the same hand signal Pepe the Frog uses?

    Why does the sun come up in the morning?
    BTW, can we stop this “alt.right” bullshit and just call them what they are: motherfucking nazis?

  174. 174
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    It could be that they’re using it because it’s one of Trumpy’s favorite gestures. Which would mean that it’s a new white supremacist hand signal, not a previously existing one.

  175. 175
    Origuy says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: The PCH (technically the Cabrillo Highway north of Lompoc) is closed at Big Sur until sometime in 2018. A landslide took out the Pfeiffer Canyon Bridge, splitting the Big Sur area in half.
    Before demolition.

  176. 176
    Steeplejack says:

    @Elizabelle, @Mnemosyne:

    I think the alt-right is having it both ways: using the hand gesture as a white power signal among themselves but with plausible deniability to the “squares”* that “Hey, it’s just an ‘okay’ sign; what are you so upset about?”

    The A-OK gesture has been passé/​dorky for decades, long since superceded by the thumbs-up gesture. The idea that the media-savvy yoots of today—right or left—would suddenly adopt it unironically or without thought is exceedingly implausible.

    * “Squares” seems to fit the retro vibe of the A-OK sign. Insert current trendy term. Sheeple? Probably not, just because an oldster like me knows it.

  177. 177
    Another Scott says:

    @Steeplejack: I think they’re all in the Illuminati myself:

    DONALD TRUMP INVERTED PYRAMID

    The Pyramid is one of the most important Illuminati symbols. The large base represent us, the little people at the bottom, while the capstone represent the 0.001% ruling from atop the capstone. Presidential hopeful [sic] Donald Trump is seen here, yet again, making a popular Illuminati sign.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178
    Vhh says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: That is not a bug, it’s a feature. Paying twice as much of our GDP for less effective medical care is American exceptionalism.

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