Sunday Morning Open Thread: For SCIENCE!

From commentor James J, in Madison. First of many from the BJ community, I’m assuming.

Mr. Charles P. Pierce:

In 2017, the country needs a series of marches across the landscape to remind itself that scientific progress and American democracy are inextricably bound for their mutual survival. The current president* has leaked a budget that decimates the federal government’s role in all manner of scientific research, from the fight against epidemic disease to the war on climate change. Which was why, walking through the drizzly day on the White House end of the National Mall, you saw epidemiologists sharing umbrellas with geologists, or a group of microbiologists huddling low under a spreading cherry tree alongside a knot of anesthesiologists. People walked around dressed as bees and as lobsters and as Beaker, the lab assistant from the Muppet Show. People walked around in overalls and in lab coats. They wore the now-classic pussy hats repurposed to resemble the configurations of the human brain and they wore stethoscopes around their necks…

There was a great deal of infighting—”Some very ugly meetings,” said one person familiar with them—about how specifically political the march should be. The older and more conventional scientists—most of them white males, for all that means in every public issue these days—tried to make the march and the events surrounding it as generic as possible.

The younger scientists, a more diverse groups in every way that a group can be, pushed back hard. The available evidence on Saturday was that their side had carried the day. Given the fact that, for example, Scott Pruitt, who took dictation from oil companies when he was Attorney General of Oklahoma, is now running the EPA, they could hardly have lost. More than a few signs reminded the current president* that, without science, he would be as bald as a billiard ball.

Generally, though, there was more than a little sadness on all sides that it ever had come to this, that a country born out of experimentation had lost its faith in its own true creation story, that a country founded by curious, courageous people would become so timid about trusting the risks and rewards of science…

Apart from sharing reports & pics, what’s on the agenda for the day?

(I’m guessing from her twitter bio that this was in Boston. It is very Bostonian.)

172 replies
  1. 1
    Keith P. says:

    In honor of science, I’ve been up all night trying to get my hand-built CNC machine dialed in. Tons of little things that don’t quite work right that have to be diagnosed and addressed. Loose couplings caused motors to grind…X and Z axes were reversed…fed 24v to a 5v device, doing $175 in damage…fun stuff like that. At least I know longer fear the thing not working. The core stuff works, and I’m able to use it regularly now (putting me kind of where I was 18 months ago with my original machine), so tomorrow – err, today – I’m going to try cutting vent holes in the (custom) controller unit so I can hopefully move on to the actual project I built the machine for.

  2. 2
    Elizabelle says:

    Love it. So proud of those who marched. Make America Smart Again.

    PS: I like the poster about the rogue National Park Rangers. Always good to see a different ending for dystopian schemes.

  3. 3
    Evap says:

    I was at the DC march and it was huge in spite of rain. My favorite sign: Less invasions, more equations!!!

  4. 4
    satby says:

    So happy to see turnout was high! My hometown Chicago had a nice crowd too.
    Still hard to believe it would be necessary to demonstrate in support of knowledge vs ignorance though.

    Good morning and Happy Sunday everyone. Workday for me in a couple of hours, but I’m hoping it warms up enough by 8:30 for me to do a couple of small gardening things before I leave.

  5. 5
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone​😅😅😅

  6. 6

    Glad the protest went well.

    Here are some pictures of Saigon.

    We’re going to see a show at the opera house now.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

    Signs are awesome.

  8. 8
    Felonius Monk says:

    Good morning, everyone. Is it coffee yet?

  9. 9
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Evap: Gah! That sign-maker should have had an English major review her/his copy: FEWER invasions, more equations. ;)

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker: We need a March for Grammar!

  11. 11

    @Major Major Major Major: Why is the sign on the brick wall with the bird on it in hangul? Is there a Koreatown in Saigon?

  12. 12

    @Baud: We don’t need no stinkin’ grammar, fuck grammar.

    ETA: Spellin’ too!

  13. 13
    WereBear says:

    @satby: Still hard to believe it would be necessary to demonstrate in support of knowledge vs ignorance though.

    It was our very unbelief that some people would gladly embrace towering lack of intellect that got us here.

    Sadly, we are smarter about that now :)

  14. 14
  15. 15
    satby says:

    @Major Major Major Major: very nice! Is it really hot?

  16. 16
  17. 17
  18. 18
    burnspbesq says:

    Sad morning. ICYMI, Suzanne Buck, a good friend to so many of us who first met at FDL in 2004-06, passed away on Friday.

  19. 19
    Schlemazel says:

    We went to the march in St. Paul, MN. Cops say “more than 10,000” which is the same shit they pulled for the womens march in January. When the overhead shots were released the revised upward to .100,000 back then. This gathering looked larger which would not surprise me give we had a glorious day, clear blue skies and 70.

    They also tried to keep it mostly non-political but anti-motherfuckingtrump stuff came up often. The first 35-40 minutes of speeches were kids involved in science talking about the importance of science to them & the future, they spoke of a minute, maybe 2 each. There was a bigger address from Mark Seeley who is a local celeb after weekly MPR appearances to discuss weather & climate for the last 25 years. There were other speeches from a science teacher, a couple of grad school students and another professor from U of MN but nothing long-winded. The focused a lot on diversity, lots of people of color, women, immigrants and LGBT speakers all of whom have a direct interest in science.

  20. 20
    satby says:

    @burnspbesq: Condolences to her family and friends.

  21. 21
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Xantar: Very nice. I saw lots of usage of sqrt(-1) to stand for “imaginary”, but yours is a much more original use of the complex plane for political purposes. (Xantar’s equation adds to 0, for those not versed in the exponential notation).

    I also saw one with Avogadro’s Number, in talking about the “Russian mole”.

    All in all, the day was a fine display of nerd humor.

  22. 22
    satby says:

    The morning and evening crowds don’t always overlap here, so I’m sharing a link from BellaQ’s team member for their walk for NAMI fundraiser. He’s a new member of her family, and this will be his first walk for charity! Give if you can!

  23. 23
    Schlemazel says:

    @Xantar:THATS A GOOD ONE!
    Mine simple said “Nobody paid me to be here”. I like several I saw but did not take pictures. The best one was “Denying climate change is √-1”

    BTW, I have been using OHM as my FB picture for 3 monghs now. Seeing it used above gave me hope that the meaning is not lost on everyone

  24. 24
    raven says:

    @Keith P.: What kind of CNC machine, wood, metal or something else. years ago, when I was at Ga Tech, I was on a project investigating CNC woodworking machinery and got to go all over the country visiting training programs for operators. Pittsburg State University , home of the Gorillas, was one of the high spots.

  25. 25
    satby says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Thanks for explaining that!😆

  26. 26
    raven says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Cholon is the Chinese district but there are lots of Koreans in the Nam so I wouldn’t be surprised.

  27. 27
    Immanentize says:

    @burnspbesq: oh no, that is very sad. Harrumph to mortality. Thanks for sharing.

  28. 28
    satby says:

    @raven: How ya doing today raven?

  29. 29
    Kathleen says:

    @Betty Cracker: One of my pet peeves. Also, “Fresh” baked, brewed, etc.

  30. 30
    raven says:

    @satby: Well, no discoloration but the calf is really sore. It’s going to be really hard to not fish but I keep thinking if a lay off for a day it will increase my chances for the rest of the week. I may got to a new pier they just opened under the bay bridge, it would be easier access.


  31. 31
    Immanentize says:

    @Schlemazel: the Boston March was very much like that. Cold and a little misty out on the common and esplanade. Speeches were mostly about diversity in science. I thought that was odd but that was the program. I am very proud that our university now has women chairs for every science and math department. Except information systems and organizational management. But even there, that chair is a Chinese American.

  32. 32
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Xantar: That is some serious nerd-fu right there.

  33. 33
    bemused says:

    Lots of science nerd humor signs that go right over my head but plenty of great signs for non-scientists to appreciate and enjoy. Smart people have the most clever signs. When I look back almost ten years ago to present on tea party townhall, rally misspelled, crude signs, I just cringe for those folks and our country. I could never have imagined that path would lead to the WH.

    “Newton, Not Putin” sign was mentioned in comments yesterday. I’m very tempted to get a t-shirt made.

  34. 34
    Immanentize says:

    My favorite equation sign was :
    Square root of sin+IST factorial

    I had to ask — “radical scientist!” (Of the IT variety)

    I like “no one paid me to be here”

  35. 35
    satby says:

    @raven: here’s hoping taking it easy a day brings big improvement! Good luck.

  36. 36
    Schlemazel says:

    I very much appreciate the diversity but one of the teen girls made the entire fight about race which I thought was a mistake. While people of color suffer disproportionately it is poverty that is the litmus test for who suffers first and most. In the late 60’s I saw the civil rights movement exclude white people, I understand why they felt they had to but I think it hurt the cause of social justice as well as that of equal rights.

  37. 37
    Immanentize says:

    And actually seen on the intestines — (perfect for Anne Laurie):
    “Trust Data
    Not Lore”
    ((STNG ref.))

  38. 38
    efgoldman says:

    The numbers for the Science March seem high but we won’t know until we compare it to the numbers at the placebo march that’s also happening

    This cracked me up. Brilliant.

  39. 39
    Immanentize says:

    @Schlemazel: I completely agree that the Boston speakers were not focused enough on the crisis. my frustrated friend whose husband works at the EPA said — “the house is on fire and we are only gonna talk about building a new addition?”

    ETA for clarity. On the race and poverty question, I do not think it is at all binary nor should one be pitted against the other. Especially in education.

  40. 40
    greennotGreen says:

    Good morning, fellow juicers!
    As a retired scientist, I would have been at the march, but I was in the hospital where I learned that, the great majority of precincts being in and the votes tallied, the challenger Cancer has beaten the incumbent, greennotGreen. The doctor has estimated weeks to six months.

    I’m okay with dying. I have time to get my affairs in order, my family will be with me. I disappointed I won’t get to do all the art projects I had planned, but it is what it is. But this post is to ask the BJ community to help me solve an ethical dilemma.

    I have hired a woman for several months to care for my parrots while I was sick (because I hoped that some drug somewhere was going to give me a reprieve.) She has become attached to them and is willing to take all five if she can get some financial assistance to convert her carport into an indoor aviary. She is not a rich woman. However, as I have mentioned before, my family is well-to-do. If it were up to me, I would pay for the whole thing, but my sister also has a say, and her limit is $3000 – $4000. The project is probably going to cost $5000. So, is this something that would be ethical to set up a Go Fund Me page for? (I’d probably get my nephew to set up the page because it would give him a good way to help me in my Hour of Need.) The money would be going to her, not me, but of course I would benefit from it because it would be providing my birds a good home. What do you guys think?

    P.S. Do you have any idea how hard it is to type with an oxygen monitor taped to your index finger?

  41. 41
    efgoldman says:

    @Betty Cracker: @Baud:

    We need a March for Grammar!

    That ship long ago left the barn.
    The adverbially challenged are ever with us.
    It’s no longer a bigly deal.

  42. 42
    WereBear says:

    @greennotGreen: Yes. Do it. I’m IN for whatever I can spare.

    It’s the least I can do for you.

  43. 43
    Schlemazel says:

    Sad news, I am sorry to hear it but glad you are at peace with the outcome.

    I would first suggest to your sister that she take the birds & when she refuses ask her for that extra grand. Otherwise I see no problem in setting up a gofundme, It is not as if you are not doing all you can to support the project.

  44. 44

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: because Korean fried chicken is loved everywhere.

  45. 45
    germy says:

    Erin Moran, the former child star who played Joanie Cunningham in the sitcoms “Happy Days” and “Joanie Loves Chachi,” has died. She was 56.

    Moran was found dead Saturday by emergency responders after a dispatcher for the Harrison County, Indiana, sheriff’s department received a 911 call, the department said. The cause of death has not been determined. An autopsy is pending.

  46. 46
    greennotGreen says:

    @Schlemazel: My sister cannot take the birds because her son who lives with her and his father has cystic fibrosis, and cf and birds don’t cohabit well. But I appreciate your input and your vote will be tallied.

  47. 47
    Elizabelle says:

    @greennotGreen: Sorry to hear your news, and may you have more quality of life time ahead than anyone guesses. I am always glad to find you here.

    Sounds ethical to me to fundraise for the remaining $1,000 or so. You’re saving five (long!) parrot lives. And maybe your sister will relent. #ParrotLivesMatter!

  48. 48
    debbie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That just doesn’t have the same snappiness as the grammatically incorrect slogan. To boldly go beyond the strictures of grammar? ;)

  49. 49
    Betty Cracker says:

    @greennotGreen: Damn. I am so sorry to hear that. Your innate kindness, wisdom and compassion frequently shine through in your comments. In that light, it seems fitting that this latest comment is focused more on getting your bird companions settled than your own devastating news. The world needs more people like you, not fewer. :(

    PS: I don’t see any ethical issue at all with setting up a GoFundMe and would be glad to contribute.

  50. 50
    Schlemazel says:

    It was sort of sarcastic, you can’t just turn the birds loose or dump them on someone who can’t afford them.

  51. 51
    Kathleen says:

    @raven: Hope you can get back to your fishing very soon! Calves are so troublesome for me.

  52. 52
    debbie says:


    I am so sorry. I think the gofundme is a good idea, if only to keep money from coming between you and your sister. At this point, it should be irrelevant.

  53. 53
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Keith P.: Ohio Dad, who made one of the first computer control retrofits for knee mill machines with a WYSIWYG display, read your comment and said with a chuckle, “X and Z axes, tell me about it.”

    (He couldn’t sell it — he is a nerd, not a salesman — then the big companies got into the act, and that was that.)

  54. 54

    @greennotGreen: ugh, that’s awful to hear, I’m so sorry.

    I think this is exactly the sort of thing it’s okay to use a Gofundme for.

  55. 55
    Kathleen says:

    @greennotGreen: So sorry to hear your news. I pray for blessings and peace for you.

  56. 56
    satby says:

    @greennotGreen: I’m so sorry greennotGreen! May your remaining days be as full as can be. It’s perfectly fine to set up a GoFundMe for the remainder, and I also will contribute. If it ends up exceeding the amount needed the excess can help with future needs of the birds.
    I’m so sorry that your sister is resisting just covering the cost though, because caring for your beloved feathered babies must be one of your top priorities.

  57. 57
    debbie says:


    That’s good news, actually, that it’s a sprain or cramp instead of a tear. You might want to think about applying heat on it later today just to help relax the muscle.

  58. 58
    raven says:

    @debbie: Which part, the lack of discoloration?

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @greennotGreen: I’m so sorry. Agree with others about the parrots.

  60. 60
    gbbalto says:

    @greennotGreen: Very sorry to read this. As a mostly lurker I have greatly appreciated your comments. I wish you peace.

  61. 61
    Florida frog says:

    The DC March was terrific. The balloon juice commenter (I know his real name but not his nymph here) gave a fabulous presentation on the physics of comic book super heroes. We stood in a densely packed,happy crowd. If you are here Dr. Solid state physicist, well done.

  62. 62
    Alain the site fixer says:

    @greennotGreen: definitely the GoFundMe. So sorry to hear the news, you’re a valued commenter here, as Betty says. Do stay with us as you can so that this odd band of miscreants can comfort and encourage you!

  63. 63
    debbie says:


    Yes, sorry. Can you fish closer to the shore, or does that take the fun out of it?

  64. 64
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    I’ve been watching your posts and tracking your ordeal, hoping for a different outcome. Your bravery has been an inspiration, and my heart has now been broken. I wish I could hold your hand, give you a hug, help in any way. Whatever you decide to do about your parrots, please please please make sure there’s a link here so I can help. I used to have a parrot and I know how clever they are and attached they get to their people. I’m so deeply sorry.

  65. 65
    Immanentize says:

    @greennotGreen: I am so very sorry to hear about the conclusion of your fight well waged. I am with you in more than spirit.

  66. 66
    Quinerly says:

    I’m so sorry to hear this. My heart breaks for you and your birds. I agree with the rest on the gofundme drive. Peace be with you.

  67. 67
    debbie says:


    They also tried to keep it mostly non-political but anti-motherfuckingtrump stuff came up often.

    How could it not? Trump’s the driving force behind the cutbacks.

  68. 68
    Patricia Kayden says:


    Still hard to believe it would be necessary to demonstrate in support of knowledge vs ignorance though.

    Then you consider who’s in the White House and who’s running Congress and the disbelief grows exponentially. This feels like a nightmare. Thank goodness so many people are openly resisting.

  69. 69
    Schlemazel says:

    That was in my mind all day, that now that it is too late all the folks want to stand against motherfuckingtrump. If the 100k had each just spent 1 day stumping for HRC they could have slept in Saturday.

  70. 70
    Immanentize says:


    if only to keep money from coming between you and your sister. At this point, it should be irrelevant.


  71. 71
    zhena gogolia says:

    The omega should be the symbol of the resistance! What a great logo! (I know I’m probably coming late to this party)

  72. 72
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Make C₆H₁₁N₇O₇ Not War!

  73. 73
    JPL says:

    @greennotGreen: Your journey has given others strength. I’m so sorry that the cancer has returned, and I will miss you and your comments. A go fund me page seems like an appropriate thing to do. After my brother died, my sister-in-law decided that she could not care for the cockatiels, and found a rescue organization. This is in GA. If the woman decides not to take the birds, that might be another option.

  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:


    Tell me about it. It is so damn frustrating that more people couldn’t see what was at stake. “But her e-mails”

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @debbie: That’s actually my plan. I may wait until late this afternoon and give it a whirl. Even prior to the injury I began to doubt that I needed to go out as far as I have. IN the fall the big reds do cruise way out there but the pomps and whiting are much closer.

  76. 76
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @greennotGreen: Wow. So sorry to hear this horrible news. I pray that you have peace during these rough times.

    As to your dilemma, I see nothing wrong with setting up a GoFundMe page to help your friend build an aviary. I have a parrot and occasionally I’ve wondered what would happen to them if my Hubby and I passed. My African Grey will most likely outlive me.

  77. 77
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    What sad news, greennotGreen. I’m glad you’re at peace with it, and hope your remaining time is comfortable and productive and filled with love. And selfishly, I hope you’ll continue to hang out here as long as you can, as I admire and enjoy your comments.

    Another vote for the parrots’ GoFundMe.

    Sending you white light, love, {{{hugs}}}, and thanks.

  78. 78
    MomSense says:


    Set it up! It will give you peace of mind to know your birds are loved and cared for and that they won’t put financial strain on their caregiver. You know many of us will help as we are able.

    I really want to hear about your art projects. Maybe there is something the artists here can help you with.

    I’m really sorry to hear this news, gnG. You are an important memeber of our vicious, jackal community.

    Fuck fucking cancer.

  79. 79
    debbie says:


    Of course, fishing off a pier would be even better. Whatever you do, be sure to stop the instant it starts to hurt or ache more.

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia: I feels you.

  81. 81
    raven says:

    @debbie: If you go out on a deep sea fishing boat you are in it for the entire 8 hrs! No turnin back for some silly injury.

  82. 82
    Ohio Mom says:

    @greennotGreen: Joining in to wish you pain-free days full of love and peace, and to say Yes to the Go Fund Me page.

    But also wondering what your sister’s real hang-up is — is she worried that the woman you hired is somehow taking advantage of you and your situation? Because if that is it, maybe there is a way to structure the deal to assuage your sister’s fears, say, giving the money in stages as the work is completed? Just a thought.

    I have very dear friends who had two youngish parrots, and who came to a point in their lives when it was time to sell the house and move to an apartment in a different city. They found a parrot sanctuary in Long Island to take the birds. It was a very difficult moment for them so I have some inkling of what this means to you.

  83. 83
    Quinerly says:

    Local NPR station is reporting an estimated crowd of 20,000 for our St. Louis march yesterday! Much bigger than expected!

  84. 84
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Xantar: Nerdy and cool at the same time.

  85. 85
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Make C₆H₁₁N₇O₇ Not War!

    Aren’t you the clever one though!? (Took some Googling and head-scratching before I finally got it.)

  86. 86
    gene108 says:


    Except information systems and organizational management. But even there, that chair is a Chinese American.

    My cousin’s kid is doing is Phd in Operations Research. He said his batch of Phd students is all Chinese, but for him.

    From what he said, a lot of Chinese are getting advanced degrees in OR, Operations Management, etc, at US universities these days, and I guess some go into academia.

    I really do wonder, if the Republicans realize how many universities graduate departments rely on foreign born students to fill the ranks. When I was getting my MBA, it seemed most of the full-time students were foreign born. The part-time programs were mostly Americans.

    The impact on banning immigration will be felt well beyond STEM departments.

  87. 87
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Explain for the lazy?

  88. 88
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Oh goody. Mar-a-Liasson is pontificating on my radio about Trump’s first 100 days. They usually don’t bring her on the weekend programs.

  89. 89
    eclare says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Also did the google…

  90. 90
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    It’s a chemical compound called SEX.

    ETA: Wikidata link

  91. 91
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    greennotGreen, I am so sorry to read this news, I send you love and best wishes from an online friend in Aus. As others have said, may your remaining time be filled with the things and the people you love.

  92. 92
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    Fuck cancer,greennotGreen. The GoFundMe is a perfect idea. You are taking a burden off your sister and know that all of the money is going to the birds care. You already know what you need to do-just do it.

  93. 93
  94. 94
    satby says:

    @gene108: Already being felt in colleges, so I’ve heard. Applications from overseas have dropped.

    I’m debating about taking another high school girl exchange student for next year (as a single woman I can only host girls), again a hijab-wearing Muslim, because they’re having problems recruiting homes again. Though some of the reluctance this time includes people who have fears for the students safety. But I’m inclined to do it, if only to honor the courage of those students and their parents for venturing into what looks like such an unsafe, hostile country.

  95. 95
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: “Mar-a-Liasson.” What you did there. It was seen. :)

  96. 96
    Quinerly says:

    Maybe someone has mentioned it, ABC News has a very extensive poll up in its site. 96% of Trump voters say they would happily vote for him again; 42% of Americans approve of his performance. 67% say Dems are out of touch with the concerns of most Americans (versus 62% say Repugs are out of touch). The whole piece is worth a read.

  97. 97
    Ohio Mom says:

    @gene108: Can’t help but think that the damage being done to higher education by putting the screws to immigrants and immigration is a feature, not a bug.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly: 42% is pretty low at this point in a presidency by any standard except Trump.

  99. 99
    gene108 says:


    I a man glad you are at peace. You will be missed. Set-up the GoFundMe page.

  100. 100
    JPL says:

    @Ohio Mom: Good news for Betsy DeVos. ugh

  101. 101
    WaterGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker: One of the many reasons I love BJ – I loved the sign but I had the same thought as you!

  102. 102
    satby says:

    @Baud: WaPo headline says “Least Popular President in Modern Times”.

  103. 103
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: If Balloon Juice is a representative sample, that march might be bigger than all the rest.

  104. 104
    JPL says:

    @greennotGreen: Also, I want to thank you for sharing your prognosis and thoughts with us. I know that I have worried in the past when you haven’t posted for awhile. You are in my thoughts.

  105. 105
    raven says:

    @greennotGreen: My boss is in your situation as well. Words seem so empty but, in many cases, it’s all we have to offer. All the best to you.

  106. 106
    HinTN says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Best sign I saw yesterday in DC, “Science gives me a Hadron”

    Also too, greennotgreen, Godspeed. My best friend went into hospice at home with the big C. One evening we called and his wife declared, “There’s no way a man on this much morphine should be breathing me this at Scrabble.” Make the best of the days ahead.

  107. 107
    greennotGreen says:

    Just had a talk with my doctor, and I had misunderstood about the time line. Weeks to six months was if the operation was successful. The operation was not successful. I have only days.

    As far as I’m concerned, I’d rather go quickly. I just hate dumping so much on my family all at once.

    BTW, I have instructed my sister to let you guys know when I’m gone ’cause you’re kinda family, too.

  108. 108
    tobie says:

    @greennotGreen: So sorry to hear this news. Your courage and humor in these circumstances are inspiring. Please stick with this blog as long as it’s worthwhile to you–we’ve got a lot to learn from your comments–and do let us know when your nephew sets up a GoFundMe account, so we can contribute.

  109. 109
    gene108 says:

    @Baud: @Quinerly:

    I wonder how man people, who disapprove of Trump, are upset he is not deporting people fast enough, building a wall on our Southern border, banning trade with Canada, etc.

    There were people, who did not approve of Obama because he did not usher in the glorious socialist revolution, jail bankers, prosecute his predecessor for war crimes, etc.

  110. 110
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:



    I’m devastated. General Stuck will have a BJ’er to hug his purple unicorn with.

  111. 111
    Baud says:

    @gene108: Probably a small fraction.

  112. 112
    lurker dean says:

    @greennotGreen: wishing you many more good days and peace. I see no problem with a GFM for them, though it would be nice if your sister did not complicate things.

  113. 113
    tobie says:

    @Quinerly: This is my impression, too, from my perch in red rural Maryland. Trump’s base is sticking with him because they haven’t seen any effects of his incompetence (or what they like to think of as his learning curve) yet. Obama handed him an economy in recovery. One or two crises, though, and they’re abandoning ship. They will like “Duck Dynasty” in the White House, until shit happens and then they’ll pretend they never liked it at all.

  114. 114
    Xantar says:


    I think if your real life resembles your online persona at all, your family will be glad that you are at peace with yourself and wouldn’t want you to worry about the burden you place on them.

  115. 115
    Another Scott says:

    @greennotGreen: Thank you for all you have done to make this little piece of the world a better place. I’m very sorry that we will lose you so soon. Peace to you and your family. I too will do what I can to help your parrots enjoy their new home.

    Best wishes,

  116. 116
    rikyrah says:

    Anyone see stuff from a science March in South America?

    Only continent missing

  117. 117
    WaterGirl says:

    @greennotGreen: oh, greennotGreen, such devastating news. You are well-loved in this life and will not be forgotten.

    Put up your GoFundMe right now and link it on BJ and you your birds will surely be well-cared for by nighttime.

    hugs and love

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    I am sorry about your diagnosis. May you not be in a lot of pain.😥😥😥

  119. 119

    @greennotGreen: Most important, peace and strength to you. IMHO, the GFM page would be a fine thing to do.

  120. 120
    Quinerly says:

    Great observation. Fingers crossed in my very Liberal and diverse section of St. Louis.

  121. 121
    Ben Mays says:

    @greennotGreen: Absolutely appropriate for a GoFundMe, I think. Sorry to hear of the turn for the worse. Four years ago this month, I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Renal C, but the drugs still hold it a bay (for the moment). The virtual certainty of final outcome outcome does clarify many things, but I agree in facing them with humor and peace. I too, have a good deal of financial and familial security which helps tremendously. It really does piss me off that have to watch these villains try to ruin my country, without much hope for my seeing the inevitable return of sanity. Keep staying as positive and practical as you can and enjoy the happiness and beauty that surrounds us.

  122. 122
    MomSense says:


    Sending the biggest hugs to you. Please ask your sister to let us know how we can support your birds.

    I’m devastated and will miss you.


  123. 123
    hedgehog mobile says:

    @greennotGreen: So sorry to hear this . Count me in fir the gofundme. And fuck cancer.

  124. 124
    ArchTeryx says:

    @greennotGreen: Im really sorry to hear this. I’m in the camp of guilting the extra $1k out of your sister. You have the ultimate whip hand…you are dying.

  125. 125
    Quinerly says:

    Read the piece. Obviously makes that clear. I’m rattled by the #s re the Dems. Some of these diehards re Trump will never admit that they are wrong; and of course, they will continue to vote against their interest. That 4% that is unhappy would have made a difference in the election…I guess…poll wasn’t broken out by states.

  126. 126
    satby says:

    @greennotGreen: argh! Thank you for having your sister keep us posted. Get the link to the Gofundme up as soon as you can so we can give you more than moral support. You’re family to us jackals too.

  127. 127
    'Niques (lurker; occasional commenter) says:

    @greennotGreen: <<>> I have no words. Just hugs.

  128. 128
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly: Dems number on that issue will always be low because the poll will includes Republicans, both siders, rural whites and white progressives.

  129. 129
    ArchTeryx says:

    @gene108: I refuse to shed one tear for the poor, poor corporate universities.

    EtA: This is in large part because they made their own bed. They ignored funding cutnafter funding cut, then their reponse was…to hite a giant passel of deans and slash faculty.

  130. 130
    laura says:

    I send you my love and will keep you close in my heart and thoughts on your journey.
    Your kindness shines bright in your every post-and you’ve left a mark on this world and BJ community.

  131. 131
    ArchTeryx says:

    @greennotGreen: I wish I’d gotten to see you more before your time. You sound aces and this wretched culture needs more people like you, not less.

    Only the good die young, indeed.

  132. 132
    oldster says:

    I went to DC yesterday. The March was excellent. My amateur estimate would be about 50k-75k people in attendance. But the hard numbers will come from Metro ridership.

    It was certainly not in same league as the Womens’ March, which I also attended, but then that was a huge, colossal event. This was pretty damn good for a smaller affair.

  133. 133
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    May your transition be an easy one. You have been a blessing to this place (and, I’m sure, much more so to those in your real life). I’m not a churchgoer or even much of a believer, but the only word I can think of now is Godspeed.

  134. 134
    oldster says:


    “ABC News has a very extensive poll up in its site. 96% of Trump voters say they would happily vote for him again….”
    But you had to self-identify as a Trump voter on this poll. So what it really tells you is that of the millions of people who are now feeling remorse and would not vote for him again, all but this 4% were not even willing to admit that they voted for him the first time.

  135. 135
    WereBear says:

    @oldster: Also, the Women’s March was potentially half the population…

  136. 136
    WereBear says:

    @greennotGreen: Oh, it’s one thing after another for you! I’m so sorry that the hits keep coming.

    Do entrust the right people so you know your birds will continue to be loved and cared for.

    We live on in those hearts; of any species.

  137. 137
    Quinerly says:

    But Repugs (that’s what my dad always called them) are polling marginally better. I’m on my smarty pants phone so my words really aren’t flowing/disjointed. Rushing around…got to go help our band set up for music at our new breakfast venue…expecting 35 peeps for our weekly “Sunday Morning Coming Down Breakfast Gathering.” Hope others read the entire piece in ABC’s site. It’s pretty extensive but lacking in”Baud 2020″ polling😉 “You can see clearly with Baud 2020.” We need to work in that slogan.💙

  138. 138
    FlyingToaster (Tablet) says:

    @ArchTeryx: Unfortunately, the public unis who followed that behavior are taking the private unis with them,

    We’re already dealing with the impact in Boston — our normal 600K+ September to May student influx is either going to be reduced or will become significantly whiter. Trump has already blocked a number of faculty from entering / returning. And overseas grad student applications to our large unis: Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BU are ‘way down.

  139. 139
    ArchTeryx says:

    @WereBear: Except a whole lot of (white) women were enthusiastic Trump voters.

    That more then anything else still boggles me. Trump comes out as an enthusiastic sexual assaulter and…his numbers with white women go UP. The depths of their hate is something I wish we had Madeleine L’Engle around to plumb, because I just can’t.

  140. 140
    frosty says:

    @greennotGreen: Oh, no, I’m so sorry. Thanks for all your contributions to this blog and go in peace.

  141. 141
    BellyCat says:

    @Keith P.: Nice! How big is the table?

    Bought a 4′ x 8′ CNC kit from a couple years ago. Got it together and working, then had a baby. Still waiting to cut my first real project!

    Just got a new 3D printer before we hit the road two months ago. It’s still in the box, unopened, in the truck.

    Babies! Who knew that they would disrupt one’s prior life completely? ;-)

  142. 142
    ArchTeryx says:

    @FlyingToaster (Tablet): I still have little sympathy. This is one of the only areas where I am an enthusiastic America Firster. There is no noble reason they take in global students…they have to pay full ride tuition. Let them educate US and hire US before the Chinese and East Indians. If they cant find enough American students, offer more full rides. Offer to train Americans for faculty jobs, or just hire us in the first damn place.

    And if they need extra $ to do it, use their goddamn endowments or fire some of their bloody deans. Quit offering sinecures to the children of wealthy donors.

  143. 143
    ruemara says:

    @greennotGreen: yes, please do it. I’m glad you’re taking it well but I’m sad the world won’t have you in it for much longer. Days? It’s not fair. Thank you for thinking of us and may as much beauty and love as possible fill the time you have left.

  144. 144
    BellyCat says:

    @greennotGreen: Adding my support for your strength and peace in the next few days.

    Always enjoyed your contributions.

    May your next adventure beyond exceed your expectations!

  145. 145
    ruemara says:

    @rikyrah: March for science on Twitter had posts from Mexico, I believe.

  146. 146

    @ArchTeryx: “you made your bed, now lie in it and I hope you go bankrupt and die” is a perfectly understandable stance to take with respect to Trump voters, less so with our public universities being as they are a vital part of the national infrastructure.

  147. 147
    ArchTeryx says:

    @greennotGreen: All too reminiscent of my oldest friend. He got esophageal cancer, went almost straight into hospice, and passed away within days. I never even got to wish him farewell.

    I’m glad you are at least getting a fee more days with us. For a snarling pack of jackals, we’re a hell of a supportive community.

  148. 148
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @greennotGreen: You are facing this with courage that inspires us all.

  149. 149
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Major Major Major Major: But it may be the only way to purge the corporate rot that has almost completely consumed them.

    I save my sympathy for community colleges. They dont hire dozens of deans, fill their halls with adjuncts or pay their football coaches millions. They just educate, and their professors and students are tremendiously motivated.

    Triple their funding and defund the four years. Let them eat sinecures.

  150. 150

    @greennotGreen: ugh. So tragic, and quite a sucker punch for you and your loved ones right now. My thoughts are with you and your family, including the avian members.

  151. 151
    StringOnAStick says:

    @greennotGreen: Yes, have your nephew set up the gofundme for your feathered friends and be sure it gets linked here.

    I am so sorry about this news. Best wishes to you for a gentle future path.

  152. 152
    ArchTeryx says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Heck I’d be happyn if the four year’s funding was increased but with strings to force them not to play Smaug with their endowments or fire half their deans. Or start a program to hire American PhDs as faculty. Or force them to have x% as tenured faculty, not adjuncts. Or all of the above.

  153. 153
    WereBear says:

    @ArchTeryx: Trump comes out as an enthusiastic sexual assaulter and…his numbers with white women go UP. The depths of their hate is something I wish we had Madeleine L’Engle around to plumb, because I just can’t.

    If it helps, I think of them as so enmeshed in that dysfunctional culture they identify with the oppressor; a kind of Stockholm Syndrome thing.

  154. 154
    Taylor says:


    I still have little sympathy. This is one of the only areas where I am an enthusiastic America Firster. There is no noble reason they take in global students…they have to pay full ride tuition. Let them educate US and hire US before the Chinese and East Indians. If they cant find enough American students, offer more full rides. Offer to train Americans for faculty jobs, or just hire us in the first damn place.

    And if they need extra $ to do it, use their goddamn endowments or fire some of their bloody deans. Quit offering sinecures to the children of wealthy donors.

    So this is what a Trump supporter sounds like.

    Any university would be happy to fill their classrooms with US citizens. Graduate education is where universities get the money to pay the electricity bills. The reliance on foreign students is scary, especially with the actions of the current administration.

    Why aren’t US citizens going to graduate school? Maybe they don’t value it the way students overseas do. There’s a huge shortage of computer scientists in this country, yet the people filling the graduate classrooms are overwhelmingly Chinese and Indian. There’s a big uptick in Americans wanting to study undergraduate computer science, but most of them won’t bother going to graduate school. I suspect a large part of the reason is a cultural anti-intellectualism that sees little value in graduate education.

    If you do get a smell of an American wanting to do a PhD in CS, people are shivving each other in the back to get that student.

    Endowment? Most private universities are going to go out of business because of their nothing endowments.

    Get the fucking chip off your shoulder, you sound more and more like a jackass.

  155. 155


    Heck I’d be happyn if the four year’s funding was increased but with strings to force them not to play Smaug with their endowments or fire half their deans.

    That last one sounds like Trump’s idiotic “we have too many regulations. For each new regulation, get rid of two!”

    @Taylor: This commenter doesn’t particularly want there to be a lot of Chinese and Indian CS phd’s here either.

  156. 156
    amk says:

    @ArchTeryx: Does your ‘americans’ include those damned chinese and east asian citizens?

  157. 157
    Miss Bianca says:

    @greennotGreen: I think the cause is entirely appropriate for a GoFundMe page.

    So sorry to hear about your prognosis. I was hoping for better news for you.

  158. 158
    Ruviana says:

    Grad and even undergrad international students usually pay full tuition. They are an income stream. Many fields including so called STEM fields have no jobs. Indeed this is what happened to Arch Terix. Public colleges and universities have had their public funding cut into the single digits such that “public” is a misnomer. Many constituencies see college as job training which is fine in part but leaves out those who pursue “impractical” majors and those who want skilled trades. Academic jobs are plummeting and even restricting students won’t fix that. Loomis at LGM has an interesting post on this. We are in an economic realignment not unlike the rise of agriculture or the industrial revolution. We really don’t know how things will shake out.

  159. 159
    Another Scott says:

    @Taylor: Both you and AT have some decent points.

    The biggest problem is that dedicated public funding for public universities has whithered to almost nothing. E.g. in 2013:

    What proportion of the U-Va. budget comes from the state?

    For years, the university saw its funding from the state steadily decrease. That changed during fiscal 2013, when appropriations increased about $8 million, according to the university’s Financing the University 101 Web site.

    There are two ways to look at the university’s finances: as a portion of the overall university budget, which includes the medical center and the U-Va. College at Wise, or just the academic division, which excludes the medical center and Wise.

    For all university divisions, state appropriations accounted for $154.4 million of a $2.6 billion budget, or 5.8 percent. For the academic division, state appropriations were $139.5 million of a $1.36 billion budget, or 10.2 percent.

    Some have made the point that they really shouldn’t be called “public universities” any more since they get so little funding from their respective states.

    When I was thinking about grad school, a big consideration was “What kind of job will I get if I go to school for 5+ more years?” Given the turmoil in IT and all the talk about AI, H1bs, the high cost of school, and so forth, I’m not at all surprised that few Americans consider grad school even in STEM. When I was in EE grad school in the early ’80s, smart kids with bachelors degrees were getting offers of $30+k in Colorado, while some guys with recent PhDs were delivering pizzas. I worked 2 temp jobs for months after I got my PhD before I finally found a (low-paying) 2-year post-doc position that finally got my foot in the door for a career.

    The idea that there’s a huge shortage of STEM PhDs continues to be a myth. If there were a huge shortage, salaries would rise faster than they have and people would be breaking down the doors of grad schools to try to get in. (The same way that Business and Law schools were charging huge fees and turning people away in the ’80s and ’90s when “everyone” thought that that was the path to riches.)

    We need to invest more in education in all its aspects, from pre-natal through continuing education for oldsters. But we also need an economy that invests in research and teaching so that people who spend the extra 5-10+ years to get an advanced degree have a place to work that takes full advantage of their skills and knowledge. Putting it all (or even mostly) on the University administrators or ‘stupid Gen WXYZers who won’t go to school’ misses the big picture.

    My $0.02.


  160. 160
    BellyCat says:

    @Ruviana: All true. However, do not overlook the fact that many (most!) public universities grossly inflated administrative positions (in number — 40% increase in last 15 years — and salary) and built infrastructure that went well beyond average (in terms of cost per square foot).

    As a result, tuition has ballooned well beyond inflation rates in the last 15-20 years.

    True story: two former students with student loans for a five year program. One with $150k and the other with $190k. The latter, a talented AA student had to decline acceptance to Harvard grad program because he was already underwater financially.

    Lots of players to blame in this situation.

  161. 161
    chopper says:


    aw, shit. god fucking dammit.

  162. 162
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m so sorry to hear this news. Now that you know the timeline is even shorter, I think the GoFundMe is an even better idea so you have one less thing to worry about as you prepare yourself. I know it’s small comfort, but you will be very much missed in our little community here and we would like to know that we were able to help you and your birds.

    Anne Laurie usually does the front-page posts with these kinds of requests, so I would email her if you’re comfortable with that.

  163. 163
    Mnemosyne says:


    Uh, ArchTeryx just lost out on yet another job, which he desperately needs to survive the Trump years because he has a serious pre-existing condition that will kill him if his Medicaid is cut off.

    He already has at least one PhD — how many more do you advise him to get?

    ETA: We had to talk him down from committing suicide after Trump was elected, so don’t be such a fucking asshole.

  164. 164
    The Lodger says:

    @greennotGreen: Deeply sorry to hear the news. I’ll miss your voice. Please let us know about the GoFundMe when it’s set up.

  165. 165
    mg_65 says:


    Delurking to say, peace and love to you, greennotGreen. Definitely set up the GoFundMe for your parrots. All love to you and yours.

  166. 166
    Mike G says:

    I can’t help but notice how literate, witty and clever the signs are at the scientist march, compared to the misspellings, mangled syntax and gaping logical errors at a teatard or Trumpanzee demonstration.

  167. 167
    HeidiMom says:

    @greennotGreen: So sorry to hear that, and so awed by your courage and strength. Wishing you peace in the days ahead.

  168. 168
    eclare says:

    @greennotGreen: I am so sorry, do what you need to do to take care of your birds.

  169. 169
    J R in WV says:


    So sorry for your most recent diagnosis! Do the GoFundMe right away, to know that your buddies are taken care of!! We’ll help!

    Hoping you are as comfortable as can be. Peace!

  170. 170
    zhena gogolia says:


    Oh, my God, I am so sorry.

  171. 171
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @greennotGreen: God, I’m so sorry. Wishing you peace and comfort. Still hope his prognosis (days versus weeks/months) is wrong.

  172. 172
    Elizabelle says:

    @greennotGreen: Good morning from Barcelona. Sorry to hear the timeline has shortened.

    We need more fine people like yourself, not less. I hope you had a peaceful night, and that you are up to joining us to comment, as you feel up to it.

    Hell, I think you should be allowed to choose the blog topics. As long as they’re not too far above our paygrades.

    Best to you, dear greennotGreen.

    (And does your name have anything to do with parrots?? You will be happy to hear that we have green parrots in the wild here in Barcelona, scrabbling alongside the pigeons for food. They tend not to hang out on statues, as their pigeon cousins do …)

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