Saturday Morning Open Thread: Same As It Ever Was

And yet… from NYMag‘s The Cut, “7 Important Things Hillary Clinton Said at the Women in the World Summit”:

In her first public interview since the election, Hillary Clinton sat down [Thursday] with the New York Times’ Nicholas Kristof at Tina Brown’s Women in the World Summit to address a number of topics: her emotions after November 8, the first 100 days of Donald Trump’s presidency, and the ongoing attack on women’s rights around the world…

She did get a kick out of the health-care bill mess.
“I will confess to this: having listened to them talk about repeal and replace for 7 years now, they had not a clue what that meant; they had no idea. I don’t know that any of them had ever even read the bill – read the law, understood how it worked. It was so obvious. Health care is complicated, right? They don’t know what to do, and I do admit that was somewhat gratifying.”…

She believes women’s rights are under attack around the world.
“The targeting of women — which is what is going on — is absolutely beyond any political agenda. There is something else happening here. So the global gag rule, that bounces back and forth between Republican and Democrats, but the way they wrote it this time — not like Bush did, not like Reagan did — this time would be to remove all aid if there is some kind of alleged breach. Because you provide family planning services, but somebody says to a woman desperate to get an abortion because she has been told she will die if she bears another child so then you try to help her and you lose everything. And then you follow that with the U.N. population fund … The impact that those dollars have is saving women and children’s lives and helping women have a better shot at a future… This is not just the right and moral position for the United States to take; this in our national security interest. The more we support women, the more we support democracy … Women’s issues are national security issues around the world.”

She’s still not sure why everyone hated her so much, but she has stopped caring.
“I am not perfect, everybody knows that by now … Sometimes I don’t know quite how to fix what they are concerned about. But I try. And so, I take it seriously, but I don’t any longer, and haven’t for a long time taken it personally. Because part of the attacks … part of the bullying and part of the name calling — and that has certainly become more pervasive — is to crush your spirit and feel inadequate. And I just refused to do that — and that infuriated everyone.”


Apart from continuing to #Resist, what’s on the agenda for the weekend?

Oh, incidentally… HRClinton’s favorite Trump .gif:

103 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Haha. I hadn’t seen that last photo before. Thanks, Hillary.

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    Oh, and

    Because part of the attacks … part of the bullying and part of the name calling — and that has certainly become more pervasive — is to crush your spirit and feel inadequate. And I just refused to do that — and that infuriated everyone.”

    Fuckin’ A.

  3. 3
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    No joke — back in late 2015, braininess Korniacki had an all white panel discussing how the black vote would break in the upcoming primaries.


  4. 4
    Raven says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: so you think the hosts are the ones who book the guests?

  5. 5
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Anthony Picciano‏ @tonypicciano 2h2 hours ago

    Governor Cuomo and NYS Leaders Announce Agreement on Budget Including Free Tuition at Public Universities!

    0 replies 5 retweets 9 likes

    Makes ya wonder: if a neo-liberal like Cuomo can pull this off, why can’t the true progressives in utopian Vermont.

  6. 6
    NotMax says:

    Hillary who?

    /typical American attention span

  7. 7
    amk says:

    ah, the librul msnbc.

  8. 8
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Raven: actually, they do have production meetings long before going on air.

    if ya gonna have a long 20 minute segment on the black vote, maybe you can tell your staff to book a diverse panel. After all, NYC has been known to have some blacks here and there.

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Would they be the first state to do that?

  10. 10
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: yes and no. once upon a time in the 50s, the 60s, and early 70s you could go to school for free in California and in NYC (and perhaps elsewhere). But budget crunches and tax cuts in mid 70s eliminated that.

    So Cuomo would be the first to take us back to the future.

  11. 11
    Dr. Ronnie James, D.O. says:

    HRC talking policy, in human terms, with NFLTG is quite appealing, You can see why she won such a huge victory in the popular vote.

  12. 12
  13. 13
    Raven says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: in California even books were free.

  14. 14

    Meanwhile, at today’s meeting on feline healthcare…

    I don’t see the problem here.


  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Cool. I’m surprised because isn’t one of the state houses controlled by Republicans?

  16. 16
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Tulsi Gabbard‏ Verified account @TulsiGabbard

    Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9/11 and must be defeated. Obama won’t bomb them in Syria. Putin did. #neverforget911

    12:03 PM – 1 Oct 2015

    108 replies 304 retweets 213 likes

    Tulsi Gabbard‏ Verified account @TulsiGabbard

    President Trump’s missile attack on Syria is dangerous, rash and unconstitutional.

    6:32 PM – 7 Apr 2017

    254 replies 1,564 retweets 2,660 likes

    The Manchurian Candidate

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: That second tweet wouldn’t be bad if you didn’t know her history.

  18. 18
    amk says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    if a neo-liberal like Cuomo can pull this off, why can’t the true progressives in utopian Vermont.


  19. 19
    amk says:

    looking at his butthurt replies to tumulty, kornacki has become a true asshole, hasn’t he?

  20. 20
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: the republicans sorta control the senate. there are 31 republicans and 32 democrats, but 9 of the democrats caucus with the republicans (which is too byzantine to understand).

  21. 21
    Betty Cracker says:

    Hillary Clinton has a lot more grace than I do. I still walk around wanting to punch motherfuckers in the neck.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @amk: Yeah, I wonder what happened to him.

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: States are weird.

  24. 24
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @amk: as the great Cyndi Lauper said:

    We think we know what we’re doin’
    That don’t mean a thing
    It’s all in the past now
    Money changes everything

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker: Me too! If it were me, my middle fingers would be permanently​ cemented in an upright position.

  26. 26
  27. 27


    Yeah, I wonder what happened to him.

    Just going along to get along, SAD!

  28. 28
    amk says:

    so, twitler’s bomb, bomb syria show was a mission not sooo accomplished bomb?

  29. 29
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Especially Misery.

  30. 30
    RSA says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Makes ya wonder: if a neo-liberal like Cuomo can pull this off, why can’t the true progressives in utopian Vermont.

    The University of Vermont (UVM) gets about 40% of its budget, around $250 million, from tuition; the other state colleges are probably less. If tuition were replaced by state taxes, it would be an additional 10%, I think, or somewhere in that neighborhood. So it might be doable.

    One of the issues that comes up is what to do about out-of-state students. There’s value in having an excellent public university system, but in my experience a lot of people think of each out-of-state student as replacing an in-state student, so with free tuition the taxpayers in a given state would be subsidizing the education of students from elsewhere, which not everyone is happy with.

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @amk: His bombs show bombed.

  32. 32
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @RSA: I don’t want to hear any excuses. True Progressives and Vermont Revolutionaries have told me a million times every issue can solved easily.

  33. 33
    amk says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Look, the money can always be printed, ok? Just open more printing presses. easypeasy.

  34. 34
    amk says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: the fawning press ass kissing lasted for what, 24 hours?

  35. 35
    Ohio Mom says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: I was still in high school when my hometown of NYC flirted with bankruptcy — as you said, part of the fallout was the end of free tuition at the City College system (you had to pass an entrance exam to be admitted).

    My older cousin had just finished up at CUNY. She joked that her subway fare had been her only expense: she lived at home, in her childhood bedroom, and majored in English, which meant that she could borrow whatever novels were assigned from the public library.

    Just about everyone in my parents’ generation went to one of the City Colleges; they were are also all the children of immigrants. My parents and their siblings became teachers, engineers, and small businessmen. As a result, they were able to give their children, my generation, a good start in life. Those free colleges built New York’s middle class.

    Free college wasn’t why NYC went broke but at the tail end of the 60s, it had to be a nice feature to the powers-that-be that college students were getting shafted.

  36. 36
    ThresherK says:

    @Betty Cracker: I wait for the first Beltway Inbred to say

    Why didn’t Hillary put on this passionate, likable persona during the campaign? It would have been so appealing!

  37. 37
    Peale says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: one of those 9 is my own senator Carlucci, who has the nerve to think I’ll be voting for him. Watched him being interviewed a few weeks ago, making excuses for something or other, going on about how if the Democrats want change, they need to organize. In my state, they did organize. And they voted in majorities. It’s not us who need to do more, Mr. Shitweasel…we now need to organize again to find a new candidate, thanks to you.

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @ThresherK: Yep. You know it’s coming.

  39. 39
    satby says:

    Well, I’m off to handpaint mica on baby shower favors (it’s in my shop updates if you want to see the ones I did yesterday). First really nice day in a long time, and I have it off to go to this baby shower later. Then home and finally planting the shrubs that came just before it turned set and freezing. You all have a great day!

  40. 40
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @amk: I have to admit that I don’t pay much attention to that shit, especially after I read that he gave the Russians warning. Trump is all hat, no cattle.

  41. 41
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: have fun

  42. 42
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning Again, Everyone😄😄😄

  43. 43
    PsiFighter37 says:

    It’s going to be a beautiful weekend here in NYC after a week of cold, rainy weather. I’m going to enjoy it and try to read less news. I have been thinking about paying more attention to sports again, just as a way to lower the background stress level caused by the idiocy out of D.C.

    I will say that I find it hilarious that Tomi is suing Glenn Beck and The Blaze for being fired. These fools know that their views make them virtually impossible to hire at any kind of real job, so they are dependent upon making sure that don’t fall off that sweet right-wing gravy grift train.

  44. 44

    @OzarkHillbilly: It does seem to have been a multi-million dollar sound and light show.

    And yet MSNBC cancelled most of its regular programming to watch it.

  45. 45
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    Repeated from downstairs, because that thread may have died:

    Where should I look for an “odd lot” piece of Formica or other laminate?

    I have a little laptop stand from IKEA that I use by my TV chair. I really like it, but the paint or whatever coating on the fiberboard top is not very good. It bubbled up a little where I put a not super hot cup of coffee on it. I’d like to throw a piece of laminate on it and make it perfect, but I obviously don’t need a whole sheet. Just need a piece about 2′ x 2′ that I can trim to size.

  46. 46
    satby says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): look for a Habitat for Humanity ReStore near you. I picked up a piece of countertop for $6.00 that was 24×24, the size of a base cabinet. Not going to use it in the kitchen now since the counter I have to buy will be long enough to cut that off of, so later I’ll just buy another base cabinet and put it in my project room.

  47. 47
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Well, most of the other cable news channels did too. You can’t really blame them for that. The oohing and aahing and rhapsodizing, however . . .

  48. 48
    satby says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): oh, misunderstood you, but they have laminate sheets at Menards.

  49. 49
    satby says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): or here Steep
    Edited to add, they probably have sample sizes or odd sizes they’d sell just to get rid of them.

  50. 50
    Spanky says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Habitat for Humanity’s Restore (Leesburg) might. Community Forklift certainly does, but that’s too much driving for such a little bit.

    Or just call a local cabinet shop. Might be able to find a cutout for a sink if you’re lucky.

  51. 51

    @Steeplejack (phone): Do you have a Habitat for Humanity or Restoc or other second-hand store? I’ve gone in one several times and they often have odd pieces of tile or laminate left over from remodeling or demolition projects. The same may be true of flooring companies as well-those odd pieces left over from projects when pieces are cut to fit a floor, but aren’t usable for other projects.

  52. 52
    satby says:

    Ok, coffee done, now I’m really going.

  53. 53
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    I’m having a cup of joe and an apple turnover, and in a bit I’ll make myself presentable and go over to Sighthound Hall for my nephew’s first-birthday party. My brother’s husband is Brazilian, so the party will be elaborate and huge. I have been informed there will be a bouncy castle! Also champagne, thank God.

  54. 54
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    Thanks, that’s a great idea! I think there probably is one somewhere around here in NoVA.

  55. 55
    Tokyokie says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: I believe that might have been the case in Hawai’i as well. At any rate, in-state tuition at Hawai’i-Manoa remained incredibly low for several years after they’d escalated elsewhere.

  56. 56
    debbie says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    The Manchurian Candidate

    The problem now is that there are so many. It’s like finding out about the pod people far too late.

  57. 57
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): This is probably your best shot: @Spanky: Likely they have cutoffs of just the formica laying around, but I have to say if your top is “bubbled” the substrata is most likely damaged as well.

  58. 58
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Spanky, @CarolDuhart2:

    Thanks, good suggestions. I even seem to remember a bin of odd-sized laminate pieces at Home Depot, but it has been literally over a year since I’ve been there. Just needed some ideas to jog my brain into action.

  59. 59
    debbie says:


    I know my brows are just about permanently scowled.

  60. 60
    Oldgold says:

    The irrational and excessive praise of Trimp for taking military action does not bode well for our future.

    This hollow opportunistic bastard now knows how to get the adulation he lives for – military action.

  61. 61
    aimai says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: State tuition at schools in MA used to be heavily subsidized but IIRC Romney or that other blue blood Weld cut that off at the knees because the important people went to private colleges so who gave a fuck about public schools.

  62. 62
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    It’s fiberboard. I figured I could sand it flat.

  63. 63
    LurkerNoLonger says:

    Hillary in other words: I get knocked down/ but I get up again/ no you’re never gonna keep me down.

  64. 64
    PST says:

    David Frum was especially good yesterday, I thought, in explaining analytically things we all feel viscerally about Trump. Whatever the right course might be in Syria, it won’t be found by making sudden, impulsive decisions that directly contradict all prior promises, with no evidence of a strategic goal, consideration of consequences, or any logical end point. We know he’s dangerous, but I feel like I understand better why he is.

  65. 65
    MattF says:

    Just in case anyone imagines that the Syrian missile strike accompished anything at all

  66. 66

    For what we just dropped on Syria we could pay for the entire South Side of Chicago to go to college for four years. A complete full ride including books, room and board and even fees. We would get a better return for our money even with the failures as they would be productive citizens and go on to contribute to society. What was dropped on that runway just went into a smoking hole in the ground with no benefit to anyone either here or in Syria.

    Funny, how the people who survived the biggest war ever (WWII) were able to send their kids to college and fund the Cold War. But the Cold War is now long over, and there are no real threats anymore from at least conventional armies, but we can’t even make college for kids half-price and fully fund the stuff for the poorest. Suddenly we have no money for struggling people but enough to pay for weapons we will probably never use.

  67. 67
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Hmm, didn’t take my edit. The surface is bubbled only in one coffee-cup-sized spot.

  68. 68
    ArchTeryx says:

    Woman makes me proud I voted for her. She tried to do universal health care and failed, but that by itself was enough for me. All the rest, as far as I was concerned, was bullshit. It’s too bad so many voters bought into it, especially in the Rust Belt where I grew up.

  69. 69
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): You certainly can. The problem tho is that the glue which holds the fiberboard together has been compromised as well as the fibers themselves. It’s a weak spot, whether it’s a problem or not depends on where and how badly. You say it was a glass, and depending on where it was it can be no problem at all (more or less centered with strong board all around it) or a slowly growing problem (on an edge where nails/screws hold the whole thing together).

    I have “repaired” innumerable cheap kitchen sink/vanity cabinets after a leak. All too often I am just delaying the inevitable. Your issue is mostly cosmetic, but again, if it is on an edge…. I’m just passing on information.

  70. 70
    tobie says:

    @amk: I’ve become so cynical that I think this little act of showing-off-the US’s-badass-military-mojo was all about distracting attention from lots of things including the disappointing jobs figures for March, which nary a soul is talking about. Experts predicted the economy would generate at least 178,000 jobs. Instead it generated circa 99,000–a figure likely to be downgraded next month.

  71. 71
    Tenar Arha says:

    @PsiFighter37: Uhh, Greta Van Susteren, Charlie Sykes, everybody recently hired at MSNBC basically…

  72. 72
    amk says:


    Trump’s action has gained support from Democrats that was never available to Obama from Republicans.

    Rubio’s points surely had some validity. Surely they apply even more forcefully today—yet Democrats from Chuck Schumer to Nancy Pelosi to even Elizabeth Warren have offered support for Trump’s actions. Pelosi praised the action as “proportional.” Schumer went further still: “Making sure Assad knows that when he commits such despicable atrocities he will pay a price is the right thing to do.”

    And dems wonder how they have lost all seats of power.

  73. 73
    ArchTeryx says:

    Apropo of nothing: Coming from the South Side of Chicago, I readily admit I’m a recovering racist. The old joke from Chicago is that there are two main political parties: White Democrats and Black Democrats, and they hate each other with a passion that makes our current political divide look like a Sunday church picnic. The Harold Washington years in Chicago were exactly like the Obama years, writ small.

    I still can’t look at a A^2 dude walking down the street and not think, ‘is this guy going to rob me?’ Yet at my scientific conventions, if I happened to see a (very rare) A^2 bioscientist, my thought was, “Neat! I wish there were more of them!” and to show them some support.

    I’m far from perfect, but I’m working on it.

  74. 74
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): @OzarkHillbilly: I should say, I am passing on “informed speculation” which when you think about it, ain’t worth much. :-) Also, if you haven’t worked with laminates before, they are easy enough to work with (glues up with contact cement), but a laminate trimmer is required to do the job cleanly and then you need to file the edges (freshly trimmed laminate has an edge like a knife, any single cut file will do the job)

  75. 75
    Gvg says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): just go to Home Depot or lowes. Looking for an odd sized cheap piece of laminate will take time and probably several strikeouts before you find anything. I bought a regular 4×2 piece for $12. 4 choices of color, in stock at all times. I wanted it for the inside of a bathroom cabinet that was warped some from a leak but other wise fine. Cut to fit and stuck it in. Used tin snips to cut.

  76. 76
    Steeplejack says:


    I appreciate the expert feedback. It’s just one small spot, and it’s not near an edge. Even if the underlying fiberboard is a little compromised at that spot, there’s enough surface area on the rest of the stand (I think) to hold the laminate on securely. At least that’s my theory. Worst-case scenario, I’ll find a piece of MDF or plywood and make a whole new top.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @ArchTeryx: We all have biases. The honest among us admit this fact. The good among us fight them. None of us ever succeed 100%.

  78. 78
    Steeplejack says:


    Again, thanks for the input. I have worked with laminates occasionally in the past, although I’m no expert. Fair to middling home/​hobby carpenter, currently without very many tools. I know the edge would have to be trimmed. Don’t currently have a router, but my brother, who is no kind of handyman at all, claims that he has some Dremel supertool with an attachment that would work. I am skeptical.

    Of course the question arises of why I wouldn’t just pay $22 to get another table.

    (A) I think a new one would have the same problem. A lot of IKEA’s stuff is really good, in my experience, but sometimes when they’re trying to make a price point they cheap out on the details a bit. This stand is almost perfect except for the fragile finish on the top.

    (B) I think I’m sliding into the “I subconsciously want a project” zone.

  79. 79
    Steeplejack says:


    Thanks. I think Home Depot will be my first stop. There’s one within a mile of me.

  80. 80
    hovercraft says:

    None of us are, as @OzarkHillbilly: said, we all have our issues. I’ve recently discovered I have a visceral bias against White people who voted for Twitler, and even worse I’ve no desire to work on it, let alone overcome it. SAD!

    ETA: Um Ozark, does that make me a bad person? If so, I find myself surprisingly okay with that.

  81. 81
    hovercraft says:


    The irrational and excessive praise of Trimp for taking military action does not bode well for our future.

    This will probably fall on deaf ears. sigh :(
    The media loved Trump’s show of military might. Are we really doing this again?

    By Margaret Sullivan Media Columnist April 8 at 6:00 AM
    The cruise missiles struck, and many in the mainstream media fawned.

    “I think Donald Trump became president of the United States last night,” declared Fareed Zakaria on CNN, after firing of 59 missiles at a Syrian military airfield late Thursday night. (His words sounded familiar, since CNN’s Van Jones made a nearly identical pronouncement after Trump’s first address to Congress.)

    “On Syria attack, Trump’s heart came first,” read a New York Times headline.
    “President Trump has done the right thing and I salute him for it,” wrote the Wall Street Journal’s Bret Stephens — a frequent Trump critic and Pulitzer Prize-winning conservative columnist. He added: “Now destroy the Assad regime for good.”

    Brian Williams, on MSNBC, seemed mesmerized by the images of the strikes provided by the Pentagon. He used the word “beautiful” three times and alluded to a Leonard Cohen lyric — “I am guided by the beauty of our weapons” — without apparent irony.

    Quite the pivot, for some. Assessing Trump’s presidency a few weeks ago, Zakaria wrote that while the Romans recommended keeping people happy with bread and circuses, “so far, all we have gotten is the circus.” And the Times has been been so tough on Trump that the president rarely refers to the paper without “failing” or “fake” as a descriptor.

    But after the strikes, praise flowed like wedding champagne — especially on cable news.

    “Guest after guest is gushing. From MSNBC to CNN, Trump is receiving his best night of press so far,” wrote Sam Sacks, a Washington podcaster and journalist. “And all he had to do was start a war.”

    Why do so many in the news media love a show of force?

    “There is no faster way to bring public support than to pursue military action,” said Ken Paulson, head of the Newseum Institute’s First Amendment Center.

    “It’s a pattern not only in American history, but in world history. We rally around the commander-in-chief — and that’s understandable.”

    Paulson noted that the news media also “seem to get bored with their own narrative” about Trump’s failings, and they welcome a chance to switch it up.

    But that’s not good enough, he said: “The watchdog has to have clear vision and not just a sporadic bark.”

    Clara Jeffery, editor in chief of Mother Jones, offered a simple explanation: “It’s dramatic. It’s good for TV, reporters get caught up in the moment, or, worse, jingoism.”

    She added: “Military action is viewed as inherently nonpartisan, opposition or skepticism as partisan. News organizations that are fearful of looking partisan can fall into the trap of failing to provide context.”

    And so, empathy as the president’s clear motivation is accepted, she said — “with no mention of the refugee ban keeping those kids out, no mention of Islamophobia that has informed his campaign and administration. How can you write about motive and not explore that hypocrisy?”

    Mocking “the instant elevation of Trump into a serious and respected war leader,” Glenn Greenwald in the Intercept recalled John Jay, one of the Federalist Papers authors, who wrote more than 200 years ago: “However disgraceful it may be to human nature . . . nations in general will make war whenever they have a prospect of getting anything by it.”

    In fact, Jay wrote, “absolute monarchs will often make war when their nations are to get nothing by it” — except, of course, to scratch that eternal itch for military glory, revenge or self-aggrandizement.

    Groupthink, and a lack of proper skepticism, is something that we’ve seen many times before as the American news media watches an administration step to the brink of war.

    Most notoriously, perhaps, that was true in the run-up to the Iraq invasion in 2003, the start of a long disaster there.

    Stephen Walt, Harvard professor of international affairs, thinks the press and the public should have learned some things by now.

    “Syria remains a tragedy because there are no good options,” he wrote in Foreign Policy, and America’s interventions in the Middle East very seldom end well.

    Walt later told me that the news media now must look forward and ask deeper questions.

    “What is Trump’s overall strategy for Syria,” given that “the balance of power on the ground is unchanged and we are no closer to a political settlement.”

    Missile strikes may seem thrilling, and retaliation righteous.

    But journalists and commentators ought to remember the duller virtues, too, like skepticism, depth and context.

    And keep their eyes fixed firmly there, not on the spectacular images in the sky.

  82. 82
    Journeywoman says:

    Delurking to say, nicely done on the thread title. I’ve been listening to that particular Talking Heads song a lot lately…

  83. 83
    waysel says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Local cabinetmaking shops or countertop shops would have scraps and/or roll ends. You’d have to call around.

  84. 84
    Steeplejack says:


    Thanks. Gonna try Home Depot and Lowe’s first, then expand the search if necessary.

  85. 85
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @Tenar Arha: Sykes infuriates me – is a right-wing talking head in Wisconsin for decades, retires and starts saying how nuts his colleagues are when he discovers they all like Trump. No self-awareness at all that he and others like him are directly responsible for the rise of the far right in this country. And then the MSM gobbles it up because they love Republicans who are willing to be ‘mavericky’ without actually doing shit about it.

  86. 86
    lurker dean says:

    @PsiFighter37: i’ve reconnected with sports over the last 8 years for this reason. it’s been a good escape, although when kaepernick took a knee, i had to turn it off because of all the racist a-holes calling in. it’s come back a bit since kaep hasn’t been signed, but it’s generally been good.

  87. 87
    hovercraft says:


    No self-awareness at all that he and others like him are directly responsible for the rise of the far right in this country

    I have absolutely no love for Sykes, but leading up to the election when I was still watching, he did say repeatedly that he and other talkers were culpable in the GOP voters refusal to believe the truth about Twitler. Years telling their listeners that the media can’t be trusted, meant that they rejected reality. He said they created a population that simply refuses to believe facts, and that is not only a problem, it’s dangerous.

    Conservative Radio Host Admits Right-Wing Media’s Effort To Discredit Mainstream Outlets Paved The Way For Trump
    Charlie Sykes: “Having Discredited The Mainstream Media,” Conservatives Created A Right-Wing Media Landscape “That Bear No Resemblance To Reality”
    Video ››› August 15, 2016 10:23 PM EDT

    ETA : Agree about the media lapping his “conversion” up, but even though is a dollar short and a day late, I welcome Sykes. Unlike Rubin he has not converted completely, but he’s on the right path.

  88. 88
    laura says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: You can thank the endless disaster that is Prop. 13 for undermining/undoing the Master Plan for Higher Education one of Jerry Brown’s dad Pat’s greatest legislative achievements along with the continued erosuion of our k13 system. Once the gold standard for public education, now starved and stressed.
    Thanks Governor Ronald Reagan!
    Wonder whatever happened to that guy.

  89. 89
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @hovercraft: apparently there were a number of Republicans, in the media/think tank corner of the party, for whom it was a genuine shock to learn that the people voting for R’s were not, in fact, devotees of small government who wanted to dismantle the New Deal. I think Sykes was one of those hothouse flowers. I wonder what he thought all the Frank Lutzian double talk about “reform” was, and why his good friend Paul Ryan got all pissy when people talked about vouchers and privatization in relation to his budget, and why Sweet Paulie Blue Eyes dropped his budget when became a national media star.

  90. 90
    Brachiator says:


    David Frum was especially good yesterday,

    Thanks for the link to this piece on Trump. It is right up there with the recent series of LA Times editorials.

    Some pundits and others keep trying to normalize Trump. He ain’t normal. Frum understands this very well.

  91. 91
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Reagan and his merry band of free marketers are where the GOP went wrong, Poppy Bush was right about voodoo economics, the math never added up and in order to sell their bullshit they had to discredit the people who were saying it didn’t add up. If all your policy is fantastical you have to create a new reality, throw in some jingoism, a dash of racism and a sprinkle of misogyny, and viola, your modern republican party! They never hated the programs, but to give them tax cuts, which they all wanted, all they had to do was kick the undeserving off the programs and presto, they’d get to have their cake and eat it too. WIN!!

  92. 92
    Juice Box says:

    @laura: I went to the UC just after prices were raised (my diploma carries the current governor’s name!), but I didn’t pay tuition, just various fees amounting to $238 per quarter. Still a bargain.

    One of those bubble-haired Republican Congresswomen, Comstock, maybe, was wittering on, a couple of years ago, about how she graduated from college without any debt. Well, she was born the same year that I was and doesn’t seem to understand that she went to school when the older generation was paying for it through their taxes. They’re idiots, every last, single Republican.

  93. 93
    Brachiator says:


    You can thank the endless disaster that is Prop. 13 for undermining/undoing the Master Plan for Higher Education one of Jerry Brown’s dad Pat’s greatest legislative achievements along with the continued erosuion of our k13 system. Once the gold standard for public education, now starved and stressed.
    Thanks Governor Ronald Reagan!

    Jerry Brown was governor in 1978, when Prop 13 passed. He opposed it.

    But in running for re-election, Brown embraced Prop 13, saying that the people had spoken. He won in a landslide.

  94. 94
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Interesting thread from a Sibelius campaign vet on the race in the Wichita area of KS that DougJ mentioned the other day

    Dana Houle‏ @ DanaHoule 4h4 hours ago
    20/…within 15 points, it’s bad for the Repubs. If it’s within 10–with Dems having spent nothing–we need to go big in 2018. If this…
    21/…race is close, that means there may be between 75 & 100 GOP-held seats that the GOP can’t take for granted.
    Please let that happen/
    24/Again, let me be clear, I would not expect the Dem to win in KS on Tuesday. It’s too Repub a district. But anything close is momentous
    27/ IMPORTANT: Don’t send money now; they can’t spend it by Tuesday. If he wins, send it Wed, if not, give to Ossoff

    good comments from a local on Wichita, too– as Houle says, this district is basically Oklahoma with a fairly diverse (for the Plains) mid-size city

  95. 95
    Miss Bianca says:

    Morning, jackals! Off to the big city of Salida today, and with any hope am meeting up with Hedgehog and spouse! Got my green balloon blown up and at the ready!

  96. 96
    Ohio Mom says:

    Everybody here has a slightly different story of why it was that their particular state slashed their support for public colleges back in the 1970s. “We had so-and-so as governor.” “We had Proposition 13.” “Our city almost defaulted.”

    Since all the states did just about the same thing at around the same time, there must have been something beyond the specifics of each state going on.

    One of the first volleys in the war against what Krugman calls the Great Compression.

  97. 97
    J R in WV says:


    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: so you think the hosts are the ones who book the guests?

    Of course not, but they CAN and should tell their organization that an all-while panel to discuss race, or an all one sexual ID panel to discuss sexism is totally and stupidly inappropriate, and they won’t be a part to the obvious racist/sexist/one-sidedness of such a selection of guests.

    The bookers must be educated, and if they won’t learn, they should be fired, 3 strikes rule. Should only take about a week to get new talent on the talent booking role.

  98. 98
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    The bookers must be educated, and if they won’t learn, they should be fired, 3 strikes rule. Should only take about a week to get new talent on the talent booking role.

    The bookers are creatures of the producers.

  99. 99
    David Spikes says:

    @Brachiator: Frum’s twitter feed is excellent, and consistent, on Trump and the Trumppistas.
    Frum is a conservative but a principled one-feels weird typing that.

  100. 100
    clay says:

    @David Spikes: Principled conservatives are such a rare breed these days. I respect them, even if I rarely agree with them.

  101. 101
    workworkwork says:

    I’m making my famous slow-cooker chili. Usually we go to the movies on Saturdays, but both of us are fighting colds.

    So, instead of movie food, it’s chicken parmesan and baby spinach salad for lunch. Delicious!

  102. 102
    D58826 says:

    @David Spikes: hMM . Well he has improved but remember he was the axisle of evil speech writer.

    So we didn’t crater the runways because they could be repaired. Duh anything can be repaired so what was the point of the attack,

    Now if you want to send a message to Assad – how about 60 Tomahawks in a nice neat circle around the grounds of the presidential palace? I suspect that would get his attention even though I doubt that it will modify his behavior.

  103. 103
    joel hanes says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    budget crunches and tax cuts in mid 70s

    A phrase which is here used to mean “Republicans in power”.

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