The Maskirovka Slips XI*: Updates to Four Ongoing Components

Three quick updates to our ongoing coverage of Putin’s campaign of active measures, dezinformatziya, kompromat, and cyberwarfare against the US, the EU and its member states, and NATO and its member states.

First up, if you’re going to try for clever keep your mouth shut!

Additionally Congressman Nunes had not actually seen anything that he talked about at his two press conferences or with the President on Wednesday. He does not actually know what, if anything, was incidentally collected or if anything even was.

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Devin Nunes, R-Calif., does not know “for sure” whether President Donald Trump or members of his transition team were even on the phone calls or other communications now being cited as partial vindication for the president’s wiretapping claims against the Obama administration, according to a spokesperson.

“He said he’ll have to get all the documents he requested from the [intelligence community] about this before he knows for sure,” a spokesperson for Nunes said Thursday. Nunes was a member of the Trump transition team executive committee.

And that was before he destroyed what was left of his committee this morning.

It is important to note that Congressman Schiff is a former Federal prosecutor who has successfully prosecuted an FBI agent who was working for the Russians. He understands counterintelligence and he has successfully prosecuted a criminal case that arose out of a counterintelligence investigation. Congressman Nunes has a masters degree in agricultural science.

Secondly, and still involving the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Paul Manafort wants to come in out of the cold.

And now Roger Stone and Carter Page are looking to get a foot in the door to play let’s make a deal!

But, you ask, what about LTG Flynn? Surely you couldn’t forget LTG Flynn? No, I have not. Our third entry this Friday afternoon is that LTG Flynn, while working for both the Turkish government as an unregistered foreign agent and the President as his campaign’s national security advisor, proposed kidnapping Fethullah Gulen from his home in Pennsylvania and rendering him back to Turkey – outside of the actual, formal, and required by law extradition process. This is usually referred to as kidnapping. It is also, usually, a crime!

Retired Army Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, while serving as an adviser to the Trump campaign, met with top Turkish government ministers and discussed removing a Muslim cleric from the U.S. and taking him to Turkey, according to former Central Intelligence Agency Director James Woolsey, who attended, and others who were briefed on the meeting.

The discussion late last summer involved ideas about how to get Fethullah Gulen, a cleric whom Turkey has accused of orchestrating last summer’s failed military coup, to Turkey without going through the U.S. extradition legal process, according to Mr. Woolsey and those who were briefed.

Mr. Woolsey told The Wall Street Journal he arrived at the meeting in New York on Sept. 19 in the middle of the discussion and found the topic startling and the actions being discussed possibly illegal.

 Mr. Woolsey said the idea was “a covert step in the dead of night to whisk this guy away.” The discussion, he said, didn’t include actual tactics for removing Mr. Gulen from his U.S. home. If specific plans had been discussed, Mr. Woolsey said, he would have spoken up and questioned their legality.It isn’t known who raised the idea or what Mr. Flynn concluded about it.

You know you have lost what little grip on reality you may have had when you’re proposing things that make DCI Woolsey uncomfortable.

Finally, we have our fourth update: Marine Le Pen has traveled to Russia to meet with her handler, boss, and krysha, Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Vladimir Putin has received Marine Le Pen in the Kremlin in a surprise move likely to reignite fears in Europe about Russian support for the European far right.

Putin told Le Pen Russia had no intention of meddling in the French presidential elections, though the meeting is likely to send the opposite message.


Speaking after their meeting, Le Pen said Putin represented “a sovereign nation” and “new vision”.

“A new world has emerged in the past years. This is Vladimir Putin’s world, Donald Trump’s world in the United States, Mr [Narendra] Modi’s world in India,” she added.

“I think I am probably the one who shares with all these great nations a vision of cooperation and not one of subservience – a hawkish vision that has too often been expressed by the European Union.”

Putin, of course, stated that Russia has no intention of interfering in the upcoming French elections.

“We do not want to influence events in any way, but we retain the right to meet with all the different political forces, just like our European and American partners do,” said Putin.

Bloomberg Politics reports that Le Pen’s visit is all about the money. Le Pen and the Front National are a bought and paid for arm of the Russian government. Which makes sense because otherwise a nationalist party that believes that the nation it seeks to lead should be dominated by Russia would be hard to understand.

“Russia is a decisive element of the balance of power that could help bring peace to the world,” she said during her Feb. 23 speech in Paris on foreign policy. “Russia has been mistreated by the EU and its vassal France,” she said.

Russia’s First Czech-Russian Bank OOO helped her finance an earlier campaign with a 9-million-euro loan in 2014. In the same year, party founder Jean-Marie Le Pen’s political fund Cotelec received another 2-million-euro loan from a Russian-backed fund based in Cyprus, news website Mediapart reported.

Le Pen is still seeking a loan to help her finance her presidential run. She says French banks are refusing to lend her the millions of euros she needs. So far, she has a 6-million-euro loan from Cotelec, according to wealth filings with authorities made public this week.

A couple of final odds and ends. Putin has taken advantage of all the tumult in DC this week, as well as the successful attack in London, to escalate his war against Ukraine and to make some mischief in Belarus.

One last note: I’ve mentioned in comments a couple of times that all of the open source reporting and documentation is showing more and more penetration and penetration at all levels. This includes conservative organizations such as the NRA. If anyone was wondering how Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke and Trump campaign surrogate wound up in Moscow getting a briefing from Russia’s Foreign Ministry, well we now know:

In March 2014, the U.S. government sanctioned Dmitry Rogozin—a hardline deputy to Vladimir Putin, the head of Russia’s defense industry and longtime opponent of American power—in retaliation for the invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

Eighteen months later, the National Rifle Association, Donald Trump’s most powerful outside ally during the 2016 election, sent a delegation to Moscow that met with him.

The NRA delegation’s 2015 trip to Russia took place the same week, lasting from Dec. 8-13, according to Clarke’s public financial disclosure forms, (PDF), and included not only the people who met with Rogozin but a number of other NRA dignitaries, including donors Dr. Arnold Goldshlager and Hilary Goldschlager, as well as Jim Liberatore, the CEO of the Outdoor Channel.

Here’s the link to Clarke’s disclosure form.

I’ll have more about this next week.

Stay frosty!

* This is the actual eleventh maskirovka post, I misnumbered number ten as eleven. I apologize for any inconvenience.

319 replies
  1. 1
    The Dangerman says:

    So, the reason he wasn’t immediately arrested for disseminating Classified Information was he never disseminated classified information.


    ETA: That was about Nunes; damn, this post is chock full of assholes. We’re gonna need a deck of cards here soon.

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Dangerman: He did. He made a statement about FISA warrants. The first rule of FISA warrants is you don’t hold a press conference to discuss FISA warrants.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    Where exactly are all those people who were freaking out about metadata collection?

    This seems worse.

  4. 4
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Gonna grab a quick bite. Back in 20 or so. Try not to betray the country or anything while I’m gone!

  5. 5
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Gowdy’s getting his hair done. It can take a long time to get hair to look that bad!

  6. 6

    My Congresscitter Schiff also has a JD(HLS, class of 85).

  7. 7
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    Additionally Congressman Nunes had not actually seen anything that he talked about at his two press conferences or with the President on Wednesday.


    The whole thing was a fucking scam… and I’ll bet that the WH put Nunes up to it…

    “Okay Devin… here’s what you do…”

  8. 8

    @Baud: I’m St. Glenn will say something right away.

  9. 9
    Timurid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And that doesn’t even cover what he told Trump and friends in private.

    In other news, Flynn is going to be trampling all the others to get to the front of the line.
    Felony conspiracy, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted kidnapping (depending on how far the plot was advanced) and espionage. All before the first Russia allegation is addressed. He won’t be going to no tennis prison…

  10. 10
    The Dangerman says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    “Okay Devin… here’s what you do…”

    “Call a Press Conference and go out and drop your pants”.

    “I think that’s a bad idea Donald; what’s your Plan B?”

  11. 11
    debbie says:

    Why the hell are so many people making pilgrimages to Russia?

  12. 12
    lamh36 says:

    Jut wanted to say if I never had before, that I really find your post on a subjects like this very interesting and you make it easy to follow for lay-women like me…

    Thanks Adam

  13. 13
    Yarrow says:

    Thanks for the post, Adam. There is so much happening it’s really hard to keep up with it all!

    Seems like most Republicans are in deep with the Russians. Maybe we need to arrest the entire party and just start over.

    Adam Schiff is emerging as a real hero and patriot. So impressed with him.

  14. 14
    Jeffro says:

    You know you have lost what little grip on reality you may have had when you’re proposing things that make DCI Woolsey uncomfortable.


    Also, it is mind-boggling that
    1) all roads (and players) lead to Moscow…I mean, every single one…hey Jill Stein and Tad Devine, you might want to retrace your steps (and phone calls!) over the past 18-24 months…
    2) Le Pen actually went to visit Putin?!? I mean, no intermediaries, no trusted seconds, just Le Pen and Putin, sittin’ in a tree, S-C-H-E-M-IN-G

    Btw just got back from a conference in Williamsburg and while the conference was so-so, Williamsburg itself is beautiful (haven’t been there in 20+ years). Have to go back with the kids when it is warmer and take the “ghost tour”!

    Anyway…what a day to celebrate…any and every day Paul Ryan is sad makes my heart sing…

  15. 15
    BlueDWarrior says:

    I loathe conspiracy theories, but I am more and more convinced that all of these far right and a few far left entities are all subsidiaries of PutinCorp.

  16. 16
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not making any promises

  17. 17
    Gindy51 says:

    @debbie: $$$$$$

  18. 18
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @The Dangerman:

    “I think that’s a bad idea Donald; what’s your Plan B?”

    Call a press conference and have Spicer drop HIS pants…

  19. 19
    Elizabelle says:

    It is important to note that Congressman Schiff is a former Federal prosecutor who has successfully prosecuted an FBI agent who was working for the Russians. He understands counterintelligence and he has successfully prosecuted a criminal case that arose out of a counterintelligence investigation. Congressman Nunes has a masters degree in agricultural science.

    Hee haw.

    Adam: do you know why Comey was at the White House today?

  20. 20
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @Gindy51: That and for some of them, probably power… or they’re being blackmailed… or all of the above…

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @Just One More Canuck: Well, you’re Canadian. I don’t think he was talking about you specifically.

  22. 22
    A Ghost to Most says:


    Adam Schiff is emerging as a real hero and patriot. So impressed with him.

    Seconded. He is looking mighty presidential.

  23. 23
    debbie says:


    Wonder if they had to leave their flag lapel pins at the door?

  24. 24
    lollipopguild says:

    @debbie: They need to see Putin and get some money.

  25. 25
    RoonieRoo says:

    I’m still not sure I want to hang my heart on anything actually coming of this but if it does….wow….

  26. 26
    lowercase steve says:

    Speaking of Flynn, what do you think of this:

    National Enquirer, owned by Trump’s buddy, Trump’s go to rag, now saying Flynn is Russian spy. That looks like an effort to discredit him preemptively. And combined with his notable absence from the list of folks quite eager to talk to congress, it leads me to believe that he has already worked out a deal with the FBI.

  27. 27
    Roger Moore says:


    Why the hell are so many people making pilgrimages to Russia?

    Money. SATSQ.

  28. 28
    A Ghost to Most says:

    Also, a big fuck you to Mike Coffman, the only one of the CO delegation who went down with T.coli and zegs

  29. 29
    debbie says:


    I hope each and everyone of them was being surveilled. Remember how outraged the GOP was when Bill befriended Charlie Tree? You’d have thought democracy was going to be destroyed.

  30. 30
    germy says:

    None of this has been covered on my local TV news. I tuned in to check the weather and see how they’d handle the national news of today. (They’re owned by the sinclare family, conservatives)

    They closed their show tonight with a story about the CIA spying on Apple products. I thought it was odd that these conservatives would devote time to a story like that. I have to assume that they wouldn’t have found it worthy of discussion during the Bush administration. For a story about the CIA hacking Mac users, I would have looked on a far left online blog, or listen to Amy Goodman.

    So my local conservative TV news station is trying to “expose” the IC. We’re living in strange times.

  31. 31
    MomSense says:


    Funny how they’ve gone silent.

  32. 32
    Gvg says:

    I can’t get over how many links with Russia their are. It’s a shame we didn’t have enough before the election though I thought their was enough to have stopped Trump in decades past. When I was young even a little Russian connection was bad enough and frankly any foreign interfearence was pretty iffy.
    In the old days did they have better um spy craft and didn’t do such direct connections or is it the Internet allowing us to see it and it was always like this but we ordinary people didn’t know? I am wondering if Putin and company had gotten used to a less sophisticated game.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    hovercraft says:

    Everyone must make a pilgrimage to see the Emperor in his palace, at least once in their lives to show fealty. He is the new leader of the pure whites, none of this welcoming in the mudd people, preserve the spoils for the white race, as God intended, makes sure that homosexuality is beaten out so that the white race can once again flourish.

  35. 35
    moops says:

    @Gvg: Trump support is entirely tribal, so Russian interference is not all that much of an issue. Also, the far right like Putin. Authoritarian, buddies with billionaires and willing to be reckless in international issues. They like that stuff. Putin is also sympathetic to white supremacists. You’ll notice a lot of them are turning up in the WH too.

  36. 36
    TenguPhule says:

    My Dream job of cutting off convicted Republican traitor heads en-masse for the government as an official executioner doesn’t seem so far-fetched with each passing day the Russian information keeps growing.

  37. 37
    lamh36 says:

    Welp…this series of tweets from Harry Reid’s Senior Advisor…

    A word about Paul Ryan based on past experience: when you clear away all the fluff, he’s really only demonstrated talent for 2 things… 1/

    @AJentleson 7h7 hours ago
    1) Slickly rebranding GOP policies that help the rich & hurt working people

    2) Ingratiating himself with powerful & influential people


    Because #2 includes the press, his credentials for Speaker were widely accepted as a given. Few asked whether he really had the skills. 3/

    That’s a generalization – in private, many reporters questioned whether Ryan was up to the job. But there was little public questioning. 4/

    Read the entire thread…cause…well damn…

  38. 38

    @Baud: Just saw that on the WAPo front page.

  39. 39
    lollipopguild says:

    @debbie: I would guess that each and everyone of these people has a note in their file about the trips to Russia. This story is blowing up and we should hear more of this in the next week or so.

  40. 40
    Mike in DC says:


    Hey, they warned Bush about Al Qaeda too. Not listening is a Republican stock in trade.

  41. 41
    jl says:

    Yikes, Too much info overload here. I’ll have to set most of this aside for weekend reading. Some of it is so ‘inside baseball’ that it goes over my head.

    IIRC the verified foreign agents in the Trump campaign are
    Flynn: Turkey
    ‘Sezhoo’ Cohen, Esq’: Russian allied Ukranians
    Manafort: Russian oligarchs

    Looks like Page and Stone are on deck to squeal something or other first.

    If I got some of the crooked stooges mixed up, please let me know.

    Edit: Nunes revelation is a surprise. But looks like he is a liar in addition to simply being corrupt, so that means Trump is getting a hearing in front of his peers in the current Congressional oversight. That’s in the Constitution, right? Why are losers beefing about it?

  42. 42
    bemused says:

    Awesome Joy Reid is on Hardball now. Wish the serial interrupter would retire and Joy take over that slot.

  43. 43
    moops says:

    I suspect part of the embrace of Russia is funding, and Putin’s willingness to put kompromat in play against mutual enemies as well as against allies. Then the shared heritage of racism. That checks off all of Le Pen’s inventory of needs and wants. I suspect the NRA is of a similar mindset.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Baud: I know where we keep the maple syrup

  46. 46
    hovercraft says:

    Of course they didn’t, everyone knows that Clinton and democrats are liars, they lie about everything!

  47. 47

    @lollipopguild: As it happens, I have made a trip to Russia. Granted it was on a river cruise up the Volga and other waterways from Moscow to St Petersburg. Maybe I can get a role in the WH.

  48. 48

    @Baud: A pic for ya Baud, UCLA in the foreground with Downtown LA in the background.

    ETA: Pic resized for the web, the original is 44,350×5952 and 1.5GB in size.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    WaPo — Nice try, Rex.

    NATO has rescheduled its upcoming foreign-ministers meeting to accommodate Secretary of State Rex Tillerson after Tillerson said he was unable to attend on the original April 5 date.

    The State Department said Friday the secretary would stop in Brussels on March 31, the day after he meets with Turkish leaders in Ankara. A NATO official said that “consultations on scheduling” among the alliance’s 27 other members for that date “are ongoing” but that an announcement was expected Monday.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    hovercraft says:

    I know, I love her, I’m suspending my boycott of msnbc, to enjoy the disaster that has befallen Twitler and ZEGS. I did flip away during Greta, I just couldn’t go that far. Joy is exempt from the boycott.

  52. 52
    bemused says:

    At this point, who in the Trump/WH sphere isn’t connected in some way to Russians? Now the count is spreading to GOP and other Republicans. It will be a yooge chart when it’s all added up.

  53. 53
    Corner Stone says:

    @bemused: I wish someone would punch him in the teeth one time to get him to stop ADHD interrupting a guest after he has asked for their take 2 or 3 times. And then keeps blabbing.

  54. 54

    @Baud: Thanks, truly amazing what you can see in the original(Dodgers Stadium, USC, the Mausoleum, the Playboy mansion…).

    ETA: I took it yesterday from the Getty Center.

  55. 55
    TenguPhule says:

    @bemused: You could throw random darts in the WH and RNC now and hit a Russian agent every time. That’s the level this has gotten to.

  56. 56
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yep, that helps when one is a Federal prosecutor.

  57. 57
    Corner Stone says:


    I did flip away during Greta, I just couldn’t go that far.

    I have stopped even trying. Greta is a POS.

  58. 58
    bemused says:


    No Greta for me either. I had to laugh how the professional interrupter had his work cut out for him trying to drown out Joy. Looked a bit frantic. I enjoy reading Joy’s twitter feed too.

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…: They did. See Ryan Lizza’s tweet.

  60. 60
    Baud says:


    “In my life, I have never seen an administration as incompetent as the one occupying the White House today,” said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat who spars often with Trump. “Today we’ve learned they can’t count votes and they can’t close a deal. So much for the art of the deal.”

  61. 61
    lamh36 says:

    OT…but WTF….is going on in DC and WHY isn’t this getting the attention it deserves!!!

    10+ girls of color missing in DC…0 Amber Alerts!!!

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: It’s the blintzes. They make the best blintzes!

  63. 63
    TenguPhule says:


    This is worse.


    Its Red Dawn without the guns and all the Wolverines are Russian agents.

  64. 64
    bemused says:

    @Corner Stone:

    If I had a dollar for every time he talked over someone’s answer I wanted to hear….

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: De nada. Thanks for the kind words.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: There was a post by Adam on this earlier today.

  67. 67
    father pussbucket says:

    David Fucking Clarke certainly has certainly risen in stature. I can remember when he was only the right’s pet Black Fascist Cop.

  68. 68
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36: Check down the threads. You’re very late to that party.

  69. 69
    lollipopguild says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: After certain people resign or are arrested they will need to be replaced. Polish up your resume.

  70. 70
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule: I don’t know. You haven’t seen my metadata.

  71. 71
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BlueDWarrior: Coincidence takes a lot of planning.

  72. 72
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: Now this one is pro-bono.

  73. 73
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elizabelle: I didn’t even know he was at the White House today. I have no idea. But pray to whatever Deity you hold dear that he doesn’t go anywhere, because one of his likely replacements would be Sheriff Clarke.

  74. 74
    geg6 says:


    I love Williamsburg! Spent almost all our vacations there when I was a kid. Had an uncle, aunt and their nine kids and two giant sheepdogs who lived there. He was a historian with the Navy. Haven’t been there in years. Gotta go back someday soon.

  75. 75
    bemused says:


    Truly stunning and horrifying. GOP and Republicans in general don’t even hesitate sell out their country.

  76. 76

    @Adam L Silverman: My point was that his JD isn’t from “Joe’s Law School and Grill”. Though he didn’t get his undergrad from one of the better Ivies so no studying with Ted Cruz, his undergrad was Stanford.

  77. 77
    bemused says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    And Nunes said Manafort can testify any way his little old heart desires!

  78. 78
    hovercraft says:

    @lamh36: Look at the older posts from this afternoon, Adam did a post on them.
    @Adam L Silverman:
    Adding my thanks to lamh36’s.

  79. 79
    lollipopguild says:

    @Baud: Are you going to wave your metadata in public?

  80. 80
    Corner Stone says:

    @bemused: “Look. Ask me to answer anything you want. You interrupt me and I am going to elbow you in the fucking face. That’s the deal. You decide.”

  81. 81
    Ian says:

    @A Ghost to Most:
    Coffman and his Secretary of state (CO) wife Cynthia Coffman, are the most heinous of Repuklicans. They plead moderate in public, but when met in private (and I have met them, and worked amongst their help) they are the worst kind of 1% scum.

  82. 82
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: But I have seen your countertops. /snark

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lowercase steve: An attempt to throw him under the bus. The number of people that will see that cover at the grocery store checkout over the next week, including repeat viewers, is a very large number. So when they here Sean Spicer or one of the other surrogates saying on TV or radio that Flynn was a Russian agent who infiltrated the campaign and duped everyone else, it’ll stick because they’ve seen the covers. Active measures and desinforaziya.

  84. 84
    lamh36 says:

    @TenguPhule: @Baud:

    well I feel sheepish

    Aww shucks…that’s the consequence of the new job, I don’t have the same time to check my blogroll throughout the day…lol

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: Kushner cut a deal on behalf of his father in law with Sinclair.

    And the CIA spying on Apple stuff is from Wikileaks.

    Here too you can see the links converge.

  86. 86
    bemused says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Ha, I’d love to see that. Joy is tough which no doubt makes Chris nervous.

  87. 87
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But this would only really stick if Flynn has a sudden unfortunate accident to keep his mouth shut, wouldn’t it?

    /I’m not kidding here

    Protective custody time.

  88. 88
    Corner Stone says:

    @TenguPhule: You’ll punch Tweety for free but want cash money to strip Mick Mulvaney and parade him over a small campfire with an apple in his mouth?
    What the fuck is wrong with you?

  89. 89

    @Adam L Silverman:

    infiltrated the campaign and duped everyone else

    Including Trump? He tells me he’s the smartest guy in the room, very smart. /snark, sort of.

  90. 90
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    idiots! They should have held out for the buckwheat blinis with sour cream and caviar.

  91. 91

    Thanks for keeping us updated, Adam. So much going on, and this is all so under-reported, it’s great to have you here helping us keep track!

  92. 92
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: The degree of difficulty between the two is several orders of magnitude in difference.

  93. 93
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bemused: @TenguPhule: Actually you can’t sneeze without saying gesundheit to someone connected to Russia.

  94. 94
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @bemused: She ate Hewitt’s lunch, dinner, late night snack, and tomorrow’s brunch earlier today.

  95. 95
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So its worse then I thought. Wonderful.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Mary G says:

    If there's four years of dealmaking like this, Pelosi's going to wind up owning Mar-a-Lago.— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 24, 2017

  98. 98
    cain says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    Call a press conference and have Spicer drop HIS pants…

    I’m pretty sure Spicer probably dropped something into his pants. His job is to look like a fool and patsy every day for Trump.

  99. 99

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s a pretty low bar since Hewitt’s an ambulatory cream cheese sculpture.

  100. 100
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: None of this is about making something stick. It is destroying the idea that there are such things as facts.

  101. 101
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It may just be that I’m looking for stuff, but I don’t think it’s underreported at all. And you’re welcome.

  102. 102
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So what’s going on? We know it’s not normal, but gee enough is enough.

  103. 103
    kdaug says:

    @The Dangerman:

    We’re gonna need a deck of cards here soon.

    Funny you should mention that. I’ve got this friend…

    He’s got damned near a full set

  104. 104
    tobie says:

    I get the sense that most people think Manafort, Stone, and Page clambering to testify publicly indicates they want to squeal. My first impulse is that they were lining up to do this to try to exonerate Trump. Any reason we should think one or the other outcome is more likely?

  105. 105
    Lizzy L says:

    @Corner Stone: I’ll do it for free, not a problem. One basted Mulvaney, comin’ up.

    I can’t decide if I want to celebrate this win with ice cream or beer. I may go really decadent and consume both. I’ve been grinning all day. I’m proud of the DC Democrats; they hung tough. I’m proud of all the folks across the country who called and called and emailed and called — we did it. And yes, I know we’re going to have to keep doing it. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. But dayum, this feels good.

    And meanwhile, the Russia stuff gets bigger and bigger. Adam, thank you for your expertise and your exposition; it’s amazing to watch this unfold. House of Cards, indeed. w00t!

  106. 106

    @Adam L Silverman: None of my friends or co-workers have heard of half this shit, though I do wonder if that isn’t true about everything political.

  107. 107
    Sanjeevs says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump ally Pete Hoekstra suggested the firing of Comey and Adm Rogers in the WSJ yesterday

  108. 108

    @Adam L Silverman: Kushner’s name popped up a lot in a thread I read at Kos about Rosfnet (sp?).

  109. 109
    germy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, they specifically mentioned wikileaks, which I found odd.

  110. 110
    dm says:

    I had my eyes opened today. Since I don’t pay any attention to Glenn Greenwald I’ve thought a lot of the rhetoric here was a bit overblown.

    Today I listened to the Guardian’s tech podcast, “Chips with Everything” interview Annie Machon about the Russian hacking story. It was fascinating — I recommend you give it a listen just to observe the techniques zMachon used. Major^4 is excepted, since I gather he hears this sort of thing from his leftist friends all the time.

    I’m going to summarize her argument as a sort of innoculation against this sort of thing:

    First, the podcast concentrated solely on the alleged Russian hacking of the Democrats, which at this point is a side-show (though I guess it’s not an outrageous restriction for a tech podcast as opposed to a political one). “Not much evidence” that the hacking was Russian, etc.

    Then, an interesting twist: this story is blown up by the Washington Post which is owned by Amazon’s Jeff Bezos. Amazon has a humongous contract to provide cloud services to the intelligence community. So it’s in Bezos’s interest to make the CIA look good. (Hmm, we’ve wandered away from the reasonable restriction for a tech-podcast, it seems.)

    After that, pretty familiar territory: Wikileaks shows us that the CIA have obtained Russian hacking tools, so they can do hacks and make it look like the Russians did it — maybe that’s what’s happened here, no? (Side story about a bank getting hacked with an attempt to make it look like the Russians did it.) (Wasn’t this a tech podcast?)

    Oh, and the US bragged about how they manipulated the 1996 Russian election to keep their pal Boris Yeltsin in power. Also, too, Pinochet, Mossadegh, …., so where do they get off complaining about some leaked emails? etc., etc. (Hello, tech podcast?)

    And, like, you’re going to trust the CIA?

    It was interesting to see it at work:
    – take a small part of the puzzle and sew doubt
    – doubt sewn, build a bridge of toothpicks to the fever swamp
    – knee deep in the swamp, toss out lots more chaff to make it seem like there’s a strong case for…. something.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: I’m not sure I’m following your question.

  112. 112
    Ninedragonspot says:

    Why are Manafort et al offering up testimony to the House Intelligence committee? If they lie, they are at least theoretically opening themselves up to perjury charges. If they are trying to save their skins, isn’t the place to do that behind closed doors with the FBI? There must be an obvious angle that I am not seeing…..

  113. 113
    Mnemosyne says:


    Stanford is only a junior university. It’s right in their name.

  114. 114
    lamh36 says:

    @bemused: It’s likely my imagination, but I don’t think Howard Fineman likes to be on with Joy. Of course it’s not based on anything tangible, but I recall (before I killed my cable feed) that Fineman was really pertubed cause Joy was shellacking him after one of the debates or something, and Fineman seemed to be bristiling over Joy not letting him spin in the name of journalism or whatever…

  115. 115
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Trump trying to distance himself from Flynn. Do you think that Flynn is talking to authorities?

  116. 116
    dexwood says:

    What a country. Damn, I don’t know whether to snack on popcorn or hemlock some days. Popcorn for now because I’m the optimistic sort.

  117. 117
    Yarrow says:

    Regarding the Russia investigations:

    "66 percent of those polled favor an independent commission, and 29 percent do not"— John Schindler (@20committee) March 24, 2017

    Two more points to go. Almost at the magic number!

  118. 118
    Mike G says:

    GOP aide on CapHill: “I’m starting to think that while we’re pretty good at winning elections, we’re not great at the whole governing thing”

    No shit, Sherlock.

  119. 119
    Mike in NC says:

    So why was the NRA so close to Trump? He’s probably never handled any type of firearm in his life, including that alleged stint in a military school.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Mike G:

    They’re good at stealing elections.

    And Supreme Court seats.

  122. 122
    Gin & Tonic says:

    So I came home earlier today, but am still in and out because of the narcotics. It’s pretty uncomfortable, compounded by wearing what seems like about 10 pounds of plaster going from my hand to almost my shoulder. The outlook is guardedly optimistic – my surgeon said it went as well as he had hoped for, and there seemed to be no need for bone grafts. But the term he used when he was describing things to me this morning – and this is some dude with a fancy-ass fellowship at Brown, from which he’s headed to another fancy-ass fellowship at Duke – was “a bag of crushed bone.” I doubt that’s the technical term.

    He installed a plate, which I’ll assume for now is like this, until I get my own pictures. He also had to install a couple of pins to hold the radius and ulna together because I had significant ligament damage and they need time to heal. Think of the motion of your wrist opening a doorknob. That is blocked for about six weeks. The pins will come out, the plate stays in.

    All in all, not as much fun as a lot of other things I’ve done in my life.

  123. 123
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I hope he brings his own water bottle while he’s at the White House.

  124. 124
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:

    Well, with the ACHA fiasco presently kaput, might we anticipate that the From Russia With Love business will feature front and center next week? I can’t imagine Ryan and company will rub their palms together first thing Monday morning and say, “So… who’s ready to talk tax reform?”

  125. 125
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I hope everything goes well. Congratulations on getting through the surgery so well.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    Warning. Both Wilmer and Michael Moore will be on Chris Hayes tonight.

  127. 127
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: I saw the tweet storm it’s based on. The Rosneft speculation has been around for a couple of months now. The Jester covered some of it in the updates to his end of January post:

  128. 128

    @Mnemosyne: This is true, it’s even in the CA Constitution*.

    *Everything is in the CA Constitution, for a while is was(it may still be) the longest governing document in the world.

  129. 129

    @Gin & Tonic: Wow. I guess the “no bone grafts” sounds promising. I suspect you’re going to find out how much you use the motions you now can’t make. Feel better. Have a little nap.

  130. 130
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Congratulations on getting through the surgery so well.

    Thanks. I had the easy job.

  131. 131
    Mnemosyne says:


    Russia has spent a lot of money cultivating the American left — that’s why they brought Jill Stein to meet Putin and hired lefty commentators like Ed Schultz to be on Russia Today.

    GG is deeply compromised by the Russians, but the open question is if he realizes it or not.

  132. 132
    Elizabelle says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Goodness. Hope you will have a successful, smooth and speedy recovery.

    Broken arms remind one of all the activities we take for granted.

  133. 133
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    None of this is about making something stick. It is destroying the idea that there are such things as facts.

    That seems rather redundant when you’re talking about readers of the National Enquirer.

  134. 134
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Baud: I don’t have enough narcotics for that.

  135. 135

    @Baud: Glad I pulled the plug on MSNBC.

  136. 136
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: Time to find a prior commitment. Fast.

  137. 137

    @Baud: Good thing my TV options are limited to Netflix and Hulu.

  138. 138

    @Gin & Tonic: Best of luck on your recovery.

  139. 139
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Glad the surgery went as well as could be hoped. Rest up.

  140. 140
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: Here’s the pathway:
    Russian controlled sources: Wikileaks/RT/Sputnik—>alt-right/right wing social media via legit social media, bots, and troll —>alt-right/right wing news sites: Breitbart, Hoft, Drudge, Daily Stormer, etc and alt-right/right wing radio: Hewitt, Limbaugh, etc and alt-right/right wing cable news: Fox—>the President and his surrogates—> back to alt-right/right wing news sites: Breitbart, Hoft, Drudge, Daily Stormer, etc and alt-right/right wing radio: Hewitt, Limbaugh, etc and alt-right/right wing cable news: Fox.

  141. 141
    debit says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Oh god, that sounds painful. Hope your recovery goes by fast.

  142. 142
    dm says:

    @Mnemosyne: Viewed from a distance, I think there’s a certain amount of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, at work. Machon is another whistle-blower (MI5, in the 1990s), and after two decades in exile I suspect she’s had plenty of opportunity to be cultivated in various ways.

    But listening to the podcast was something of a revelation to me.

  143. 143
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Try not to betray the country or anything while I’m gone!

    I wanted to, but the Russians would only pay me in Monopoly rubles.

  144. 144
    Corner Stone says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    was “a bag of crushed bone.” I doubt that’s the technical term.

    I applaud your dedication to the application of some seriously aggressive masturbation. But at some point you gotta remember, time takes its toll on all of us.

  145. 145
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: Is someone subbing for him as host? He’s supposed to be on Bill Maher tonight.

  146. 146
    Baud says:

    @Yarrow: He’s hosting from California​.

  147. 147


    Monopoly rubles

    Is that like bitcoin?

  148. 148
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t think the NE is anyone’s go-to for facts. I could be wrong though.

  149. 149

    @Baud: Oh, that’s only a couple of miles from me.

  150. 150

    @Adam L Silverman: So is that information credible? It’s all so jaw dropping that I’m beginning to feel like we live within the pages of the National Enquirer.

  151. 151
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: Okay. I have no idea. I do not expect LTG Flynn, based on his actions when he was relieved of his command and forced into early retirement by the Obama Administration, to go quietly. I think this is to muddy the waters and dirty him up.

  152. 152
  153. 153
    dm says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think Occam’s razor suggests the path: Apple press release -> Germy’s TV station.

    Wasn’t there a second “Apple IDs stolen” story going around this week? Is that why everyone in Applevania is talking about two-factor authentication? Or was that just fallout from the Wikileaks story?

  154. 154

    @Baud: The studio at Universal City*.

    *Yes, that’s in California.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike G: Ya think?

  156. 156
  157. 157
    Jacel says:

    @A Ghost to Most: The two other California Democrats on the committee, Eric Swalwell and Jackie Speier (my own rep) have been visible and staying on message with Schiff. Their performance leads me to assume the whole team Pelosi picked for that committee is up to pulling their weight throughout a challenge like this.

  158. 158
    TenguPhule says:

    @Lizzy L:

    I can’t decide if I want to celebrate this win with ice cream or beer.

    The Internets think of everything.

    You don’t have to decide, you can do both. At the same time.

  159. 159

    @Baud: Glendale is just down the street from California.

  160. 160
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: Oh, okay. Thanks.

  161. 161
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:


    I wanted to, but the Russians would only pay me in Monopoly rubles.

    What… no bitcoin?

  162. 162
    moops says:

    @tobie: That was my first take. But then Nunes is scrambling to make the hearings closed to the public. My guess is that Manafort was playing a game of chicken. He has kompromat on committee members. Perhaps Stone and Page are holding the same cards in their hands and want to get there first. *shrug* lots to figure out still.

  163. 163
    hovercraft says:

    I know, I’m breaking the picket line to enjoy my GOP tears and these to bozo’s are going to harsh my mellow!! I’m deploying the DVR so I can skip over both of them.

  164. 164
    raven says:

    Guess who?

    Devin Nunes, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, is either a hero or mentally deranged. The Democrats are opting for the crazy diagnosis. I believe he is a hero. Mr. Nunes received information earlier this week from a whistleblower, but not you typical whistleblower. The “normal” whistleblower takes information, usually classified, to a member of the press in order to bring attention to wrong doing or lies by the government. He or she goes outside of channels. In this regard the Nunes’ whistleblower is different. This person passed classified material to a person cleared for the classified material, i.e. Nunes.

  165. 165
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mike in NC: Apparently the Russians also own the NRA now too. Or a big enough chunk of it that its hard to tell the difference.

  166. 166
    efgoldman says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    Call a press conference…

    …and blame Obama.

  167. 167
    TenguPhule says:

    @raven: GG, Russian patsie and Enemy of the Republic.

  168. 168
    tobie says:

    @moops: Will Manafort be testifying in public or is that part of the hearing also going to occur behind closed doors on Monday? So hard to keep up with all of this. I gather Yates and Clapper’s testimony will be closed to the public.

  169. 169
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: OMG. Moore is off his meds!

  170. 170
    hovercraft says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Glad it went well and you’re doing okay. Get well soon.

    Edit for grammar.

  171. 171
    chris says:

    My theory is that these rich rightwing assholes have formed a sort of club and that Putin is the big guy, because he’s the winningest winner ever. Forbes and Bloomberg, yeah those rags, call him the richest man in the world with estimates going over 200 billion, dollars not rubles. Also, of course, he has real hard power and can and has had people killed. He can tell the peasantry, which is everyone but him and a few of his friends, to eat their shit sandwiches in silence and they will because the alternative sucks.
    Now comes Trump and Tillerson, Mercers and DeVos and a host of lesser beings all horned up by the display of raw power to bask in the glory that is Vlad. He’s so nice! He wants us to be happy! He’s going to help us make the world the way it should be, a playground for us and a penance for all the undeserving. Et nauseating cetera.
    The funny part, to me, is that they think he’s on their side. Hahaha. I suspect he thinks that they’re just peasant trash with money, useful for the moment, to be discarded when no longer useful. Cynical me, I’m looking forward to that moment.

  172. 172
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike in NC: This is a good question. He’d previously been pro gun control. Both his sons, however, are avid shooters and hunters. But it is a good, unanswered question. Makes you wonder if there is NRA funding coming from places it shouldn’t be.

  173. 173
    Roger Moore says:


    *Everything is in the CA Constitution, for a while is was(it may still be) the longest governing document in the world.

    Apparently Alabama’s is even longer. Among other things, they’ve incorporated most of their tax code, including local taxes, into the state constitution, so that even something as trivial as a local sales tax increase requires a constitutional amendment. All those amendments make it three times longer than the next longest constitution in the world, India’s.

  174. 174
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I called this last night!

  175. 175
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

  176. 176
    hovercraft says:

    Is it worth tuning in?

  177. 177
    TenguPhule says:


    If they lie, they are at least theoretically opening themselves up to perjury charges.

    Two schools of thought here.

    1) They’re gonna lie and bet on no charges being filed with Rs in charge

    2) They know the FBI is compromised and want this in public so they don’t suddenly have a fatal accident behind closed doors.

  178. 178
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @efgoldman: Default position…

    Can you blame them? It helped get Trumpovich into the WH…

  179. 179
  180. 180
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: Depends on your mood.

  181. 181
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @TenguPhule: Yeah to either of those…

    This is far from over…

    The Rs definitely took a couple of direct hits today but this is far from over…

  182. 182
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: That’s not what I meant. Everyone sees it at the checkout. Then when it starts circulating on social media and then makes its way to Fox news and Limbaugh and others of his ilk it is more likely to stick.

  183. 183
    JPL says:

    @raven: Why do you continue to read the blog? Life’s to short.

  184. 184

    @Major Major Major Major: California Street is in Glendale.

  185. 185
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Then when it starts circulating on social media and then makes its way to Fox news and Limbaugh and others of his ilk it is more likely to stick.

    Then they wouldn’t need the NE as a middleman. They have the alt-right’s prop-agi team’s direct lines on speed dial.

  186. 186
    TenguPhule says:

    @JPL: Some people just enjoy self inflicted pain, or so I am given to understand.

  187. 187
    hovercraft says:

    Okay I tried. No thanks.

  188. 188
    gian says:

    According to Putin they have the best practitioners of the oldest profession

  189. 189
    TenguPhule says:

    @debbie: The tea there is to die for.

  190. 190
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: Understandable. It was the most depressing thing I saw today.

  191. 191
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: Beer Ice Cream can fix that.

  192. 192
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: The Jester is very good at what he does. He’s a white hat hacker. Beyond that I can’t say. We have a lot of circumstantial information coming from open sources – both reporting and documentation, as well as leaks to open news sources. What we don’t have or know is what the CI investigators are looking at that would make this coherent.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dm: Only thing I heard about was the Wikileaks stuff, which was, like much of their other stuff, much less sensational than they claimed.

  194. 194
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What we don’t have or know is what the CI investigators are looking at that would make this coherent.

    I imagine all the dead witnesses makes it a bit more difficult then usual.

  195. 195
  196. 196
    debbie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Hope you recover more quickly than you expect.

  197. 197
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What do you think of John Schindler’s feed @20committee?

  198. 198
    Goku says:

    Hell, if the NRA is compromised, could this scandal completely blow up the current American political landscape?

  199. 199
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Oy vey. And before you ask, I have no idea who that is behind the nym.

  200. 200
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @Goku: Hopefully it will blow away the NRA, at the very least…

  201. 201
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: @Major Major Major Major: No. That was directed at me. It’s inside blog baseball. We need a privacy function for certain things.

  202. 202
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: See, it worked already.

  203. 203
    Aleta says:

    @Gin & Tonic: That picture really shows the complexity of the area doesn’t it. Glad you’re done with the first part.

  204. 204
    hovercraft says:

    Chris is on with Bill Maher tonight, other guests, Timothy Synder, Ted Lieu, Louise Mensch, and Matt Schlapp.
    Maybe I’ll tune in Schlapp is insufferable, so maybe not. Sigh, it’s supposed to be a celebratory night.

  205. 205
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…: Please see Anne Laurie in the late night thread to collect your winnings.

  206. 206
    Ninedragonspot says:

    @TenguPhule: Thanks. I find #1 (lie wth impunity) the simplest explanation, but i have a hard time imagining it would actually do much to convince folks that they are all aboveboard. In the meantime, any lies or obfuscations might do an equal or greater amount of damage to their PR. Perhaps Manafort et al think the right-wing Wurlitzer is ready to go to bat for them? They can win the day’s headlines? But will Fox cover for them if they already seem too compromised?

  207. 207
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: I don’t get HBO. But I don’t like his show anyway.

  208. 208
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Let me try this again. The Enquirer isn’t a middle man. Rather it is something everyone sees at least once a week or every other week at the store. The point of this is to simply make sure as many people as possible have seen it. That way when it is then broadcast through the channel I’ve delineated it has a greater chance of sticking because you’ve seen it. Somewhere. You can’t really be sure where. But you’d seen it. So this is just confirmation.

  209. 209
    Redshift says:

    Adam, do you know anything about The Daily Signal? The site doesn’t seem to have any identifying information, just stories. Since it’s an explicitly conservative site, I’m wary of confirmation bias in reading its Ukraine coverage.

  210. 210
    Goku says:

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    I mean it’s crazy how much of the political right in this country has seemingly been infiltrated by Russia.

    Also, congrats Putin, you’ve me and millions of other Americans life long enemies of you and your regime, you tyrannical asswipe

  211. 211
    TenguPhule says:


    In the meantime, any lies or obfuscations might do an equal or greater amount of damage to their PR.

    This I can assure you is not one of their concerns. #1 would be aimed only at the people who matter to them, the Base Right. That’s all, to keep Trump’s base believing in the cult leader. That would mean they’re sticking with the regime, come what may.

    #2 is where things get interesting. And would have unfortunate implications about Nune’s attempt to make it closed door..

  212. 212
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Nobody does.

  213. 213
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: Interesting. He seems to have good sources. I basically view him as one of the conduits for the NSA. Just like McMullin is one of the conduits for the Agency. The silly ego driven sniping at others is what it is. There seem to be two types of people that emerge from doing national security and/or Intel work. The one’s that feel the need to constantly beat their chests. And those that don’t. One of the guys who trained and mentored me fits into the former. Other of those who trained and mentored me fit into the latter.

    In this case you can work out who fits where.

  214. 214
    Jeffro says:

    @Yarrow: Re: 29%

    Two more points to go. Almost at the magic number!

    Well within the margin of error!

  215. 215
  216. 216
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Redshift: I have no inside info other than it is part of the Heritage Foundation.

    That’s why the Heritage Foundation team created a digital-first, multimedia news platform called The Daily Signal.

  217. 217
    Jeffro says:


    My guess is that Manafort was playing a game of chicken. He has kompromat on committee members. Perhaps Stone and Page are holding the same cards in their hands and want to get there first. *shrug* lots to figure out still.

    That…is an interesting thought. Manafort can throw that offer out there, to testify, and all of a sudden every Russia-guilty party in GOP-land DOESN’T want him to speak up for fear that their own involvement will be made public.

    It’s going to be ugly, and delightful…

  218. 218
    TenguPhule says:


    me and millions of other Americans life long enemies of you and your regime, you tyrannical asswipe

    Unfortunately, millions of Americans looked at his regime and thought “Well, why not?”

  219. 219
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Goku: Culture war stuff. Putin has branded himself as the defender of Christianity and traditional values, specifically for white people. The connections first started among the US and European extreme right – the neo-fascists, neo-nationalists, neo-NAZIs and in the US also the white nationalists, white supremacists, and race realists. From there it was both pushed and pulled into the more mainstream right and conservatism because of solidarity against LGBTQ issues, against Muslims, against secularism.

  220. 220
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Your pal and mine.

  221. 221
    raven says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Did you the pic I posted on the travel page thins morning?

  222. 222
    Jeffro says:

    @TenguPhule: @Adam L Silverman:

    Covered (just not as succinctly) in “The Republican Noise Machine”, by David Brock. They set up multiple outlets, channels, publications, and talking heads to just bounce propaganda around, citing each other as “sources” all the while.

    No wonder they became Putin’s tools so easily…

  223. 223
    mike in dc says:

    I would generally love to see a list of people to follow on twitter for this stuff. Seems to be an odd assemblage out there, and some of them definitely have their idiosyncrasies(including the Game Theory Guy(@ericgarland) .

    Also, at this point I think Armando is right about there being an “alt left”, a group of people who 1) hate the Clintons; 2) downplay the Russia stuff; 3) accuse the Democrats who care about this of McCarthyism and Russophobia.

  224. 224

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s like how they say you have to hear something three times before it penetrates. Glimpsing the Enquirer in the grocery store functions as one of those times.

  225. 225
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Great, so a former 11C and now GS 10 in the BP with severe and, apparently, untreated PTS. Again: oy vey!

  226. 226
    Elie says:


    Thank you for your very very informative posts and keeping me (and all of us) up to date on these very important issues. I am learning so much but am also occ. really scared about what I am learning. Thank you for demystifying this and for holding my/our hand while we weigh the implications.

  227. 227
  228. 228
    Redshift says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ah, okay. That provides some clarification. I’ll take it with a grain of salt, then.

  229. 229
    JPL says:

    @raven: Location for early voting for the district 6 race is not favorable for Jon.
    In Roswell the mayor chose a site in Handel territory.

  230. 230
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    When I had to get my ACL replaced, the surgeon pointed to a spot on the MRI and said, “You see that little ball of goo? That used to be your ACL.”

    Surgeons are not known for their tact.

  231. 231
    tomtofa says:

    The White House said Comey visited to attend a “routine interagency meeting”, but did not say with whom he met.’

  232. 232
    Jeffro says:

    Since we do so much talking about Putin and all his (and his oligarch friends’) amazing schemes to take advantage of our craven GOP pols and destroy our Republic…

    …what’s the answer? How does the US government, once restored to its proper (sane) elected officials, combat this stuff? A massive “sunlight” campaign on multiple channels across the entire NATO alliance as to what Putin & Co are up to? Targeted cyber attacks on his hacking units? Military assistance to Ukraine…and whatever central Asian republics might make Putin nervous?

  233. 233
    Goku says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Would any of this get better if Putin died?

  234. 234
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elie: You’re quite welcome. Don’t be scared. The fact that they’re so bad at this, and, as one result, all of this stuff is leaking out and traceable, is a good sign.

    Once you lose credibility it is hard to get back. The courts blocking the immigration EO. The inability to pass the AHCA. This. All of it makes things much, much, much harder for the President and the GOP majorities in Congress to do anything but just roll back President Obama’s EOs. And while that is bad, this all keeps things from being worse.

  235. 235
    TenguPhule says:


    …what’s the answer?

    I’m good with seizing every Russian asset outside of their country that isn’t nailed down.

    (And if we can pry off the nails, it isn’t nailed down.)

  236. 236
    Altoid says:

    @TenguPhule: Jezes enough with the killing fantasies ffs

  237. 237
    Elie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Just keep up your good protein calories and nutrition to heal fast. Pain relief is also important, though may be most needed at night from my own experience with my knee and shoulder replacement. Positioning for sleep is critical.I got real crabby missing good sleep from being unable to get comfortable. I found some relief from the Lazy Boy recliner for my knee and also my shoulder. Be sure to get foam rubber blocks or pillows to help position also (available at fabric stores).

    Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

  238. 238
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Covered with rich caramel over a rich, nougat center.

  239. 239
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @tomtofa: Most likely a Principles Committee meeting of the NSC.

  240. 240
    Goku says:

    @Elie: Honestly, between Adam and David, I’ve learned a lot about Nat Sec/FP and healthcare along with the other front pagers about regular politics. This place deserves more attention than it gets

  241. 241
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Goku: I do not know. It depends who takes over for him.

  242. 242
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Goku: And if I ever get my hands on those two guys they’re in a lot of trouble. They’re making me look bad.

  243. 243
    Elie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What makes me most concerned is the ruthlessness of some of these people. I just pray we have something left of our republic by the time we finish dealing with them. This whole period has re-emphasized how fragile our government is and how easily people with committed, nefarious interests can pull us off course….. Checks and balances only work if the people in charge of them care about them.

  244. 244
    Elie says:


    I would not be surprised that a lot of people lurk here without saying much but taking in the learning. It IS excellent and the people “right neighborly” too! :-)

  245. 245
    frosty says:

    @Gin & Tonic: @Elizabelle: I had a broken wrist in college; nothing nearly as bad as yours. But Elizabelle is right. I had to learn to write left-handed, take a final left-handed, brush my teeth left handed, do everything (ahem) in the bathroom left-handed. It was only for 6 weeks, though, no surgery, no plates, nothing but an itchy cast. You’ve got my sympathy and I hope it all goes well.

    PS Do your physical therapy when they get you started! It was months til I had full motion again.

  246. 246
    Adam L Silverman says:

    1) They are, but they’re not very good at it.
    2) We are the Republic, as long as we hold the line we and it will survive.
    3) One thing that has to result, based on what we’ve learned over the last 90 days, is that our institutions need some significant shoring up, which means our Foundational Law needs some significant shoring up.

  247. 247
    Kristine says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Everyone sees it at the checkout. Then when it starts circulating on social media and then makes its way to Fox news and Limbaugh and others of his ilk it is more likely to stick.

    I saw that with HRC-related stories during the campaign. Every checkout line in most every middle/working-class grocery store I frequent.

  248. 248
    Elie says:


    I have also wondered this — only less kindly — “what if Putin GOT killed”. I mean, they don’t have a line of succession and no one else would immediately command the international respect, is my thought. But maybe there are seconds almost as effective, though less known.

  249. 249
    randy khan says:

    Interesting beginning for TRMS: Rachel spent about 30 seconds on the health care bill and just started running through all of the *other* things going on. She’s just gotten to the Flynn kidnap plot stuff.

  250. 250
    Elie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    1. May they remain not good at it.
    3. Yes, I think many people see that — but it will be tricky on how and when to do that. Just assessing what has to be done and in which priority will take some thought — and leadership….

  251. 251
    moops says:


    I don’t think Manafort is going to get such an easy ride here. I doubt he thinks that either. He’s not a big dumby like Trump. I’m guessing Manafort’s generous offer is timed with something. Flynn, or the healthcare debacle.

    There is a bunch of GOP that smell blood in the water with Trump. He stole the primary as far as some of them are concerned. Quite possibly with Putin’s help.

  252. 252
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kristine: Exactly!

  253. 253
    Baud says:

    @randy khan: It’s good. Too much for the long lead in.

  254. 254
    lollipopguild says:

    @Elie: If Putin is no longer around-natural causes-slips on a banana peel- the scramble to replace him could be quite ugly and bloody. Lots of people grabbing power and money and by the way, who has the nukes? As bad as he is it could get really bad very quickly both in Russia and also in Europe.

  255. 255
    efgoldman says:


    Any reason we should think one or the other outcome is more likely?

    They’re the only ones who know what any prosecutors may have. Rulae number one for klowns like this is always save your own ass first. Stone, especially, remembers what happened to Tricksie Dicksie Nixie’s people when they tried to protect him instead of lining up to testify.

  256. 256
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elie: Medvedev would try to take over. I’m sure there’s someone that Putin has picked to ensure his family’s and his family’s fortunes survival. Just like he was picked by Yeltsin to do this for Yeltsin’s family.

  257. 257
    Goku says:

    @Adam L Silverman: 3. As long as Republicans control significant portions of the Fed government and many state governments it will be impossible to improve our institutions. It serves their and their allies’ interests for them to remain weak. That’s why it’s going to be critical to oust then from power over the next four years, so we don’the turn into Russia’s poodle

  258. 258
    TenguPhule says:

    @Elie: Then several thousand nuclear warheads suddenly become a lot less secure.

    The internal corruption is already bad enough *with* Putin in charge. When the paychecks stop coming…again, the military is going to leak equipment like a sieve. Again.

  259. 259
    moops says:

    The Mouth of Trump, The National Enquirer, has a big new bit up about Trump “catching” the KGB spy in the Whitehouse. Possibly Trump trying to get ahead of this thing. Well, Bannon really.

    I would speculate that Trump is going to try and pin ALL the Russian connection shenanigans on Flynn and throw him under the bus. It shouldn’t work. All those trips to Moscow, all those *other* connections. The IC is dribbling this all out at a nice rate to keep the media hungry and the populace disoriented.

  260. 260
    Elie says:


    You have a point. Still — he will not live forever and sooner or later, even if not “removed” by external sources, will have to experience a rival. He is not a spring chicken despite his shirtless horseback bs. I bet he drinks a bit and has more than average stress. The “big one” — heart attack or stroke, is always a real possibility. Just saying…

  261. 261
    The Pale Scot says:


    My Dream job of cutting off convicted Republican traitor heads

    Flogging, impalement and immolation, it’s the only way to be sure

  262. 262
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @moops: It is timed with the fact that documentation is being collected by prosecutors about all of his foreign ties and dirty dealings. His under the table payouts. His daughter’s allegations that he’d killed people in Ukraine (or ordered them killed – the texts could be read either way). Manafort is in significant trouble. The type that doesn’t get you sent to Club Fed. It gets you sent to the SuperMax. If he’s smart he tries to cut a deal that takes extradition to Ukraine off the table. Even a SuperMax in the US is going to be better than wha the Ukrainians are going to do to him. He also wants protection. He knows what his patrons do to loose ends.

  263. 263
    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap says:


    The night before Nunes made his surveillance claims about Trump, he got a message on his phone and vanished.


  264. 264
    Goku says:

    @TenguPhule: The more I’m reading the more sense I get about Russia is that it’s a ticking time bomb that will explode when Putin inevitably dies or retires unless he has a designated successor.

  265. 265
    efgoldman says:


    the open question is if he realizes it or not.

    He probably gets the hint when the rubles are transferred to his bank account every month.

  266. 266
    TenguPhule says:

    @The Pale Scot: 8th Amendment, unfortunately. It has to be quick and it has to be clean.

  267. 267
    Goku says:

    @TenguPhule: My fantasy is being like Superman in that episode of Justice League and using my heat vision on both Trump and Putin like Supes did on President Luthor

  268. 268
    TenguPhule says:

    @Goku: Exactly. He has no designated heirs and nobody else in his circle can hold the whole thing together. He has personal Vetanari insurance in Russia, but what happens after his lifetime warranty expires is what keeps a lot of people up at night.

  269. 269
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Goku: You mean the Justice Lords episode or the Question Authority episode?

  270. 270
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Given that the Russians would have their own intercepts as they collect on their own people…

  271. 271
    Elie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Key word is “try”. I imagine like lollipopguild said, it could be a rough go. Didn’t Putiin try to remove Medvedev when he became Premier again?

  272. 272
    Jeffro says:


    As long as Republicans control significant portions of the Fed government and many state governments it will be impossible to improve our institutions. It serves their and their allies’ interests for them to remain weak. That’s why it’s going to be critical to oust then from power over the next four years, so we don’the turn into Russia’s poodle

    Democrats could – I say could – message successfully on this as both a rallying point and a platform for 2018, 2020, and beyond. “We were struck a terrible blow when the GOP stood by and let Putin’s Puppet steamroll them, and worse. Worse because even once they knew Vladimir Putin was behind Trump’s success, they continued to stand by, do nothing, and put party ahead of country. We can restore this great country of ours and advance it, make it stronger. But we need your help, now, today. Be a force for the restoration of democracy in America…”

    It will take some direction, though, and right now I’m not sure that Dems have figured out who their leaders are. We’re still looking to our elected officials and the long-time successful ones (Obama, Clinton, Reid) all just left the stage…we haven’t gotten used to seeing outside players as those officials co-equals yet, so even Cecile Richards or John Podesta are relative unknowns with limited ability to help Ds coalesce…

  273. 273
    mike in dc says:


    I think his weakness is the culture of corruption. So long as the oligarchs are making money, he’s completely secure. If the economy worsens enough, and the only apparently way to bring back the money is to get rid of him, sooner or later someone will take a shot at him.

  274. 274
    Jeffro says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And Page, and Stone, knowing that Manafort is likely to be looking for such a deal…that would explain their urgency to unburden themselves to the House committee…

  275. 275
    Goku says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think the Justice Lords episode.

  276. 276
    mike in dc says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Nerd. ;p (I’ve seen the episodes too)

    Adam, do you think there is an “alt left” that catapults the propaganda in a manner very similar to the alt-right/Breitbart set? Michael Tracey, GG, Snowden/Assange(obviously!), and even Matt Taibbi have all been sharply critical of the Clintons, dubious about the Russia story, and claim McCarthyism and Russophobia.

  277. 277
    TenguPhule says:

    @mike in dc: He’s already killed off all the ones brave enough to try. The rest are under his thumb.

  278. 278
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elie: Yep. The impression was that Putin thought Medvedev actually started to believe he was in charge.

  279. 279
    mike in dc says:


    No doubt. Things will likely have to get significantly worse. The alternative is a military misadventure which turns public opinion against him(young people coming home in caskets tends to do that).

  280. 280
    japa21 says:

    Not trying to be a negative, but there have been too many times I have gotten my hopes up just to have them squashed. I would like to think that having Mannafort, Page and Carter come forward will be a positive, but I have my doubts.

  281. 281
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mike in dc: I’m not sure it is anywhere near as organized. I think some of those folks are, clearly, either on the payroll (they are on or go on RT all the time) or are useful idiots. In the case of Taibbi – I think he just doesn’t like Clinton. And some of these folks, Assange, GG, aren’t really on the left.

  282. 282
    Goku says:

    @Jeffro: Call me an optimist, but I think what we’re going to see in the next few years are more people becoming more civic minded and running for office and getting involved in politics at all levels.

    It is said often that everything Trump touches turns to shit, but I think what is ignored is that because he is so outrageous and frighteningly authoritarian, he inspires many to oppose and fight him.

    In other words, those already politically woke are energized while those who used to be “asleep” have been woken up to the danger Trump and the Republicans pose to our values. So I think 2018 will go OK for us, so long as Democrats and liberal-adjacent groups stand united

  283. 283
    Adam L Silverman says:


  284. 284
    satby says:

    @Gin & Tonic: glad you’re home and the outlook sounds good. Now get some rest if you can!

  285. 285
    Goku says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Let the conservative circular firing squad begin!

  286. 286
    Jeffro says:

    @Goku: He has indeed woken many “sleepy” Dems to greater awareness and activism. I’m married to one!

  287. 287
    Jeffro says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Goku:

    Oh my…
    I guess this is the payoff for 5 months of wondering which alternate universe we’re in? The one that sucks at first but then gives such moments of glee?

  288. 288
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @japa21: I still find some comfort from the Jester:

    JΞSŦΞR ✪ ΔCŦUAL³³º¹‏ @th3j35t3r
    #BuckleUp It’s gonna be a rough few weeks America. And that’s about all I’m gonna say on the matter, aside from… keep the bubbly on ice.

    Eric Garland is now predicting weeks. I think Schindler (that asshole with very good sources) has always suggested LTG Flynn – who’s been very quiet of late – would talk first. They all (including Malcolm Nance) seem to think there’s kompromat on Nunes. And he offered natsec advice to the campaign and was on the transition…

  289. 289
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Goku: Woohoo!

  290. 290
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Dude, it should be worth it.

    I had my foot remodeled, they broke all the bones and cut some off and then screw it back together. It took a year but I’m walking better than I did at 25.

  291. 291
  292. 292
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: It will take as long as it takes.

  293. 293
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If he’s smart he tries to cut a deal that takes extradition to Ukraine off the table.

    Since he has not already taken a plane to Moscow, I guess he does not expect a warm welcome from that country.

  294. 294
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: You know my theory on Flynn.

  295. 295
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Good thoughts for a speedy recovery. Stay ahead of the pain – that’s the whole point of narcotics. You might be less than fully coherent, but don’t wait until it hurts to dose. Ask me how I know.

  296. 296
    J R in WV says:


    Why the hell are so many people making pilgrimages to Russia?


    Any questions?

    Thot not.

  297. 297
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I do, and it’s solid. How solid he is, in terms of wanting to be at the head of the line for a deal, I got no clue. Page seems buggy, but he’s awfully goofy anyway, it seems. Manafort has to be slightly askeered of the Ukranians – he’s apparently that smart and supermax seems his safest residential option.

    Nunes seems awfully alarmed about something. I want it provable that Pence was not insulated from any of this. I’m sure he wasn’t, but proof is a different beast.

    And I do understand it will take as long as it takes, but I’m cheered by the Jester’s use of “weeks.”

  298. 298
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    Good thoughts for a speedy recovery. Stay ahead of the pain – that’s the whole point of narcotics. You might be less than fully coherent, but don’t wait until it hurts to dose. Ask me how I know.

    My mom and another person I know both had major surgeries in the past couple of months (hip replacement and badly broken ankle). My conversations with them lead me to second your advice. Also too, talking with normally sensible, educated, and intelligent people who are all hopped up on goofballs is an interesting experience.

  299. 299
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: It’s not just the Ukrainians. Manafort has represented a large number of despots and businesses that do very shady things. The number of people that have to be concerned about what happens if he decides he has to come clean to save himself and his fortune has got to be very, very large.

  300. 300
    J R in WV says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    As others have said, stay on top of the pain. If you let it get ahead of you, it can be very hard to get it back under control. So take it on schedule even if it doesn’t seem to hurt that much yet. It can fool you as the drugs really work when done right.

    Mrs J and I saw our surgeon today, 6 months after her last surgery… she was cleared to travel anywhere she wants, “see me again in 6 months.” Dr did both my shoulder replacements in 2015, both of Mrs J’s knees in 2016. Total success… he watched her walk up and down the hall, said “It’s so great when you can’t tell which one was done last…” Plus her feet both point pretty much straight ahead, first time ever!

    Also – so glad the Lyin’ Ryan Health Care bill blew up in his face!!!

    And Flynn, how stupid was that? Wow!!! How could he not know all the people he was talking to on the phone were being recorded?????????

  301. 301
    Fair Economist says:

    @mike in dc:

    Adam, do you think there is an “alt left” that catapults the propaganda in a manner very similar to the alt-right/Breitbart set?

    IANAA, but there are some in the left blogophere I am positive are acting as Russian agents. Not naming names for obvious reasons, but sometimes I read stuff and think “are you kidding me?” Many have been around for a long time which makes it even more puzzling to me.

  302. 302
    mike in dc says:

    The activities inside Eastern Ukraine and Belarus concern me. I wonder if Poland has a “Plan B” if Putin suddenly moves on Kiev and Minsk.

  303. 303
    J R in WV says:


    “Is that like bitcoin?”

    More like Byte-me-coin….?

  304. 304
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Fair Economist: Cohen.

  305. 305
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    Schindler also says, in an interview today:

    I asked Schindler what he has heard about the evidence Schiff is teasing out.
    “I’ve heard about it for a long time, as a former NSA official,” he said.

    “There is very damning evidence, but it’s top secret evidence. That’s the whole problem, which is why the public discussion of this is sort of a shadow dance.”

    So why has the evidence not been leaked to the public?

    “Information of the kind that we’re talking about, which is intelligence information from U.S. and partner agencies about, not just Americans, but extraordinarily prominent Americans — the president’s inner circle — is extraordinarily ‘compartmented’ as we say in the spy world.” …
    “I will tell you that I have friends very close to the investigation and what they’ve told me is there is a considerable amount of signals intelligence — that is, phone intercepts, travel tracking, that sort of thing — some human intelligence about meetings that have happened between Team Trump principals and prominent Russians.”

    “None of this information, by itself, is, as we say, a smoking gun or a slam dunk. But collectively they create an indelible impression of collusion last year between Team Trump and the Kremlin.”
    … “Trump’s whole defense is one member of his inner circle away from turning state’s evidence and spilling some beans and it starts to be all over.”

    “We’re not there yet,” Schindler says. “But I think that day’s coming.”

    (emphasis added)

  306. 306
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Roger Moore: Pretty sure that was on purpose, to ensure that there was no local autonomy in Alabama. Also pretty sure that was motivated by the same issue as everything else in AL politics.

  307. 307
    J R in WV says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And how is Yeltsin’s family now-a-days?

  308. 308
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Fair Economist:


    Would you like to be? We’re selling franchises.

  309. 309
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mike in dc: Invoke Article 5, dig in, and hold till the cavalry arrives.

  310. 310
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Dog help us all.

  311. 311
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: My understanding is they’re fine. Putin has kept his end of the bargain. Be the heir apparent in exchange for ensuring the Yeltsin’s wellbeing.

  312. 312
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Commander EUCOM and Commander USAREUR will respond. There’s a reason we have an HBCT in Poland right now. I’d feel better if we still had V Corps and 1AD was still in Germany, but NATO has the forces to repel a conventional Russian attack. But it won’t come to that. Russia’s military is not in the best shape. There is no way Putin is going to order them into a battle he knows he can’t win. The Polish military are professional. And they know where the threat is. As do their neighbors.

    This is why Putin uses Little Green Men and his hybrid warfare. He knows he can’t fight head to head. He doesn’t have enough Spetznatz to go around. And his trillions are no good if they’re irradiated. He’s not irrational. He’s not insane. And he’s not suicidal. It will not come to that.

  313. 313
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Omnes Omnibus: I worked the Hof border crossing behind 2ACR. I know how that works. Our parents get our BSM with V and Purple Heart combo.

  314. 314
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Tracking.

  315. 315
    Westyny says:

    @Elie: Nobody here but us chickens.

  316. 316
    PJ says:

    @Adam L Silverman: How do we shore up institutions, when they people who populate these institutions are the problem? It’s not a rhetorical question. Journalists, politicians, generals, business leaders – many of these people are a-ok with our country’s politics being manipulated, if not controlled, by the Kremlin. Even before it was manipulated by the Kremlin, they were ok with politics being the means by which the rich get richer and everyone else gets the shaft. This kind of venality has been the go-to attitude for people trying to get ahead in this country at least since Reagan was elected. That’s more than a generation of corruption.

  317. 317
    PJ says:

    @mike in dc: Even a Putin critic like Masha Gessen has claimed that Russophobia is behind the allegations connecting Trump with the Russians, and that there’s nothing to see here, folks.

  318. 318
    Goku says:

    @PJ: I hate to go all TenguPhule, but the violent overthrow of the Republicans and subsequent civil war would be the only answer if elections are irreversibly rigged to favor them. Still optimistic they can be voted out and I am heartened by what I have seen in both the public and Democrats in general. No matter what dark times lie ahead for America and the world

  319. 319
    Captain C says:

    @Elie: The other question is what happens to Putin’s money when he goes?

Comments are closed.