May want to pop some popcorn too!
On @maddow I'll break a big story about Trump and his taxes – 9PM eastern via @DCReportMedia Ill be on @lawrence, too.
— David Cay Johnston (@DavidCayJ) March 15, 2017
What we've got is from 2005… the President's 1040 form… details to come tonight 9PM ET, MSNBC.
— Rachel Maddow MSNBC (@maddow) March 15, 2017
14-Mar-2017 08:29:23 PM – WHITE HOUSE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO MSNBC THAT TRUMP PAID $38 MILLION IN TAXES ON INCOME OF $150 MILLION
— Jennifer Ablan (@jennablan) March 15, 2017
WH taking it seriously. https://t.co/j71K04FAcS
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) March 15, 2017
Hmmmm https://t.co/GE8wyvg04n
— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) March 15, 2017
And we leave the last word to the drunk at the end of the bar er, um, noted, local crazy person er, um, official mouthpiece for state propaganda outlet er, um pundit and talk show host:
@NBCNews on Jihad against @POTUS From access Hollywood, to morning Lib Joe, to Deep State Leaks. Media Corporate Jihad. Details at 10 FNC
— Sean Hannity (@seanhannity) March 15, 2017
Open thread!
Baud
Someone is jealous of Kelly Ann’s cray-cray.
raven
“At least a portion of. . .”
raven
back to the hoop
debbie
If Sean’s upset, it’s got to be good.
Corner Stone
Great, she’s going to spend 15 minutes telling us about how they came to have it.
NYCMT
“Trump is acting like someone just tasered his prostate.” a friend on my facebook wall.
different-church-lady
Even if it’s a nothingburger, at least the creeps currently occupying the White House are on pins and needles.
lamh36
Anyway, I’m going back to watching Golden Girls.
Maybe I’ll check back after Maddow…I’m sure someone will have cliff notes summary if it’s worth any thing
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: @Corner Stone: the history of the form 1040… after this break
PsiFighter37
@Corner Stone: Already starting with a long backstory…
Adam L Silverman
@raven: @raven: Sometime the hype works out, sometimes it doesn’t. It appears that Johnston has the 2005 returns, hence the “at least a portion of…”
Corner Stone
More like “Set your snooze alarms”.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
@PsiFighter37:
You expected different?
raven
@Adam L Silverman: The NIT is more interesting.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone:
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “Some say the demise of the dinosaur came about due to the complexity of tax regulations and filing. We’ll get to that next. Don’t go away. Like the dinosaurs did. You don’t do that. See you in 60.”
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Blanche did it. With the washing machine repair man in the sunroom on the lazyboy.
different-church-lady
…and then, the Earth cooled.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: @PsiFighter37: @Baud: I have a joint PhD and two masters degrees and even I can get to the point faster than she can. And I often speak/explain/describe things in tangents.
Baud
@Corner Stone: I hope this isn’t a two-parter.
sukabi
Billionaire??…income of $150mm. …. snicker.
raven
I was going through the kitchen cabinets for some baking powder. The tin I found expired in 2005!
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: I forgot that episode.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sukabi: decabillionaire
Adam L Silverman
@raven: I have no doubt. Though I’m more of a hockey guy myself.
Corner Stone
JUSTSHOWUSTHEFUCKINGNUMBERSFORGODDAMNSAKES!!
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I could probably get a joint PhD and two masters degrees in the time it takes her to get to the point.
TenguPhule
@Baud: They’ve already signed on for six seasons.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: That’s pretty much every episode.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: “Ohh, beehave!”
WereBear
There’s a reason people are watching Rachel, more. They want to know what is going on, and she actually tells them.
We don’t need it. I get it.
But they DO.
raven
@Adam L Silverman: The lighting in Alexander is weird.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: 10 years.
amk
@Adam L Silverman:
showoff.
debbie
@raven:
I hate when that happens. Did you test it by dropping a teaspoonful in warm water?
raven
CNN’s website has NUMBERS!!!! (from the Whitehouse)
Adam L Silverman
@raven: I’ll fill out a service report and see if someone can take a look ASAP. How’s that?
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Might still be OK. Here’s how to test it for potency.
Hal
Trump already commenting? I wonder what it’s like to play poker with him?
Also, 38 million seems like a lot to pay in taxes for a super duper deal maker like Trump. Wasn’t Romney bragging at one point that paying as little taxes as possible showed how smart he was?
raven
@debbie: Nah, I didn’t use it. Went with the spinach salad and salmon.
mike in dc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
1% interest on 10 billion is 100 million per year. His net worth could be well below a billion.
Baud
@raven: It’s all connected, man.
PsiFighter37
…
Is she’s going to get to the point anytime soon?
TS
EVERY trump supporter will say “Who cares – smart guy getting other folks to give him money” – or “smart guy to pay no tax”
This man can do anything, say anything – all his supporters want is a white racist as their president.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman:
The other day on the drive to school my son and I went from discussing a traffic stop for running a stop sign all the way to a complicated bank heist scheme. And we still did it in under 10 minutes.
And that is a true story. Including a wait while I texted my ex about why they had a traveling nurse (RN) program instead of just hiring one full time.
Baud
@TS: We’ve established that. Thanks.
raven
@Adam L Silverman: They are “Hell of Engineers”, they should be able to fix it.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I write long screeds that can kill posts and I get to the point faster. My CV isn’t as deep as yours though. Possibly more colorful.
schrodingers_cat
Does she still do those cringe worthy cocktail segments?
Baud
If there is no donation to NAMBLA, I’ll be disappointed.
Corner Stone
Does anyone think Rachel knows she is working on minute 15?
TS
@Corner Stone: you mustn’t watch Rachel very often – she does this all the time.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PsiFighter37: I’m not watching but I’ll go ahead and say no for the group
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: You’ve got at least 10 minutes to go and up to 25 minutes.
TenguPhule
@TS:
FTFY.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Her twenty minute preambles would be just fine with me if she were to physically hand me a martini at the start of each show.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Heh.
raven
@Ruckus: I’ll put my masters in leisure studies up against any of you bums!
NYCMT
@raven: baking powder shouldn’t expire?
dmsilev
@amk: It would be more impressive if he spoke in hyperbolic cotangents.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Trump doesn’t do donations. Bribes on the other hand are his other income.
TS
@Baud: Yea, I know, I just keep trying to think of something – anything – that he could do to change this – and I come up with ziltch.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the broad twitterverse is apparently in agreement with people here
raven
@NYCMT: Yea but it was from the same year as these tax returns!
TenguPhule
@NYCMT: Moisture and odors.
It may still cook, but you wouldn’t want to eat it. Trust me.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: haha.
Kay (not the front pager)
@Corner Stone: Nope. She’s spending 15+ minutes telling us why we need to see them. I wish she would just get on with it already.
Aimai
I never watch maddow for all the reasons you all give but you are not her target audience. I meet pink and blue collar white women who get all their political news from her. They love her style. we should be so lucky as to have shows that appeal to different parts of our coalition. not everything is about and for you.
Mike J
@Baud: More likely a donation to Handgun Control, Inc that he wants to hide from the firearms fondlers.
different-church-lady
@TS: I’m thinking this isn’t so much about what his base thinks as it is how the White House reacts and whether it forces any errors from them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: I clean out my parents’ cabinets and fridge from time to time and I swear those old demons run out and by expired stuff after I do just to fuck with me
Baud
@Aimai: That’s fine. We can still have fun with it.
liberal
@Corner Stone: fuck that. It’s 9:18 and she’s still bullshitting.
Ruckus
@raven:
I know they were giving degrees in lots of things but leisure studies? Are you sure you didn’t mean leisure suits?
And thanks for the appropriate reference to my status, bum. I’m working on being a retired bum. I think that is one rung up from regular bum.
TenguPhule
@TS: Burn a bible while sacrificing a Nun’s heart to “Black” “Allah” on live TV while promising free abortions for everyone.
Maybe.
dmsilev
@TenguPhule: What about bribes-issued? Surely he’d try to deduct those as business expenses.
raven
Mike J
@raven:
I wonder which one smells worse.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aimai: she’s been beating CNN lately, in spite of hotel lobbies and airports
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Corner Stone:
Three words: Al Capone’s Vault.
Glad I chose to Netflix instead – trying Stranger Things
Corner Stone
I feel like Jodie Foster’s character in Contact where she had 18 minutes of blank white static recording from her trip to Nambla IV.
raven
@Ruckus: Nope, undegrad in Recreation and Parks Administration and master in LS. I ran community sports programs for 20 years before doing what I do now.
germy
Now he’s really pissed.
TenguPhule
@dmsilev: Unfortunately those are actually allowable as an “ordinary and necessary” expense by the IRS. So no love there.
WereBear
@Aimai: Exactly. I’ve been complaining for years that no one in news explains anything.
Remember, old people; civics has been slowly dwindling from our public education. They don’t even have the knowledge we had in elementary school, singing, “I’m just a bill… waiting here on Capitol Hill.”
Baud
@raven: Not a sane response. Good.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They have to get back at you for being a kid, thems the rules.
germy
She’s getting Sean hot under the collar, so let’s give her some credit.
Adam L Silverman
@Aimai: You do remember what it is we do here in the comments, right? I believe the polite term is weaponized complaining.
mike in dc
What we really need are complete returns, with supporting documentation, going back 30 years. The forensic accounting equivalent of a colonoscopy, combined with a root canal.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Corner Stone:
Should’ve known that was coming. I steeled myself.
liberal
@Kay (not the front pager): yeah…we’ve got littlekids, there’s shit in the kitchen to clean up, the city snowplow dumped more snow/ice in our driveway…JUST FUCKING GET ON WITH IT!!1!
This is why I read rather than watch…serial access sucks, random access rulez.
TenguPhule
@liberal: “Get on with it!” /Python
Corner Stone
@Aimai: She has killer real estate. The real deal prime time TV real estate. It’s a fucking crime to pimp shit like Trump Tax Returns and then do her 20 minute bit lead in.
hovercraft
It’s bad enough having to sit through her endless preamble, but FFS Tweety and Ken Fisher!
raven
@Ruckus:
Baud
A two page return won’t have any good information in it.
amk
rotating tagline: bj’ers are cynical bastids.
Jeffro
I’m not even watching, and I already know this is just a shot across the bow here…trying to squeeze a couple (more) unforced errors/disclosures out of Trump…
liberal
@mike in dc: yeah…it’s a couple of pages, right? … ok… Rachel sez it’s just the 1040…big whoopdedoo.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Baud: That’s hilarious, and no doubt true.
Mike J
Maddow needs to announce she has full returns for every year since 1980 and see if Trump will release them ahead of her show.
gene108
Just a 1040. I think Trump set-up David Cay-Johnston and Maddow.
Released the returns for the one year he made money and paid taxes.
liberal
@TenguPhule: lol.
germy
Baud
@gene108: They are covering that now.
ByRookorbyCrook
Unless we are going to see later returns to compare these too, this is a nothingburger.
germy
Ruckus
@raven:
I remembered, just busting ya a little bit.
I worked 31 yrs in professional sports, 20 as a part time official and 11 full time for the sanctioning body, where I had 2 full time jobs and 1 part time, all concurrently. I put my navy training (the drinking part) to good use there.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Yep, all the interesting stuff is in the supporting schedules. If she had access to that, it would be a lot more helpful. Schedules A, C, and the rest would be goldmines of dirty secrets.
Gin & Tonic
I’m watching hoops. At least some of them put the ball in the hole from time to time.
raven
@Ruckus: Nice, I officiated hoops myself but just high school.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@germy: That’s disclosure by government employees.
liberal
@Ruckus: difference is print vs bloviation.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: Pretty cool that URI and Providence both got in the show.
Corner Stone
@germy: The context is that nothing is here. This all means nothing.
I Am Not King Jon Snow
If this is all Maddox has then this is a giant nuthingburger. Need supporting schedules to get answers. And we’re going to spend days talking about it instead of the emerging Trumpcare fiasco. Wouldn’t be surprised if Bannon or someone in Trump inner circle released this. Interesting that they had response ready so quickly.
Sorry folks, give this round to Trump. The war continues.
liberal
@gene108: J. admitted that…he said maybe Trump is the one who released the nudies of Melanoma.
hovercraft
@germy:
A felony for a IRS employee to release them, for Twitler or someone in his orbit, not so much. I thought Sean loved leaks, isn’t he a fan of Snowden, Assange?
TenguPhule
@I Am Not King Jon Snow:
We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We’re not Republicans.
JPL
So Trump leaked his returns from 2005 in order to take the heat off of health care. Good job.
liberal
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lol.
Aimai
Not at all. If they released one year the argument that they cant release any year falls flat.
Trentrunner
I KNEW this would be a nothingburger (see previous thread when Rachel’s first tweet came out.)
Here’s why:
Read the original tweet, which was carefully crafted to be easily misread as THE BIG STORY, but which, on re-reading, was probably not big deal. Which it’s not.
Rachel ALWAYS overhypes her own scoops. ALWAYS.
This is fucked up, and I hope Rachel takes a huge credibility hit. Fuck her.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@raven:
Was your baking powder being audited? Is that why you didn’t use it?
Ruckus
@I Am Not King Jon Snow:
This may just be the first shot across the bow. It may be all there is. I’d bet they had the response because they knew that something was out there, hell the place is leaking like a wire basket in front of a fire hose.
PsiFighter37
Nothingburger.
Show me Trump’s 2014 and 2015 returns in full and I’ll care.
TenguPhule
@Trentrunner: We work with the allies we have. Not the allies we wish the unity ponies would give us.
Emma
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. One of the few on teevee we can trust to be on our side and you people can’t stop slagging her. Say what you will about Republicans, they protect their own to the bitter end.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Hmm, a lot of pre-emptive declarations of “nothingburger” and attempts to permanently discredit Rachel Maddow.
Color me not at all suspicious of a troll infestation.
TenguPhule
@Emma:
Untrue. Only until they become expendable.
different-church-lady
Did she ever say where they got the page from?
Emma
@TenguPhule: That is a given in politics. But they don’t help the enemy get the scalp.
Baud
@different-church-lady: Came in the mail.
magurakurin
It shows what I always thought was the main reason Shitgibbon doesn’t show his returns…he ain’t no billionaire.
sukabi
So what is in the EO Drumpf was supposed to sign today? Something about reorg the executive branch…probably declaring himself CEO for life with Bannon EXO…
Baud
@Emma: We’re not helping anyone attack Rachel. If she’d attacked from the right, people will support her.
liberal
@Corner Stone: yeah, but OTOH as Angela Bassetts character pointed out, it actually showed something.
UNLIKE THIS FUCKING LAME 1040!!1!
different-church-lady
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Skepticism no longer an allowable trait in your worldview?
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: Someone sent them to Johnston. Johnston stated that they could have come from anyone, including the President.
Steeplejack (tablet)
Two pages! Apparently Trump filed form 1040EZ. Who knew!
I Am Not King Jon Snow
@Emma:
Paul Ryan might disagree.
Emma
@Baud: Forgive me if I doubt it. Too much experience with democratic politics.
liberal
@Baud: you’re full of shit. I’ll bet Bannon combs thru BJ comment sections himself.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: With the coupon for the dry cleaners, a retractable awning, the local Mexican restaurant, and the Sunday circular for the Piggly Wiggly.
Trentrunner
LOL Chris Hayes just said ON RACHEL’S show is that this return shows Trump actually paid a lot of tax.
Love the people on Twitter who were speculating Rachel was going TO TAKE DOWN TRUMP…
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Yes it is. Been a long time for URI.
Citizen_X
@Trentrunner:
Fine, you go get his tax returns, then. Jesus fucking Christ, there’s no pleasing some people.
Trentrunner
Brian Fallon just tweeted that we need to pay attention to the healthcare debacle, not this nothingburger.
different-church-lady
OK, well at least #FAKE_PRESIDENT spent another two hours of his diminishing time on this planet being all twitchy.
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack (tablet): That would explain the audits. Nothing raises flags like big money trying to claim simple circumstances.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
If this leads to more demands (especially demands to see the complete returns), I’m all for it.
If think David Cay Johnston makes a good point about tax percentages.
Trentrunner
And the rest of the media are turning on Rachel now for overhyping this and for her (usual) 20 minute windup to this evening’s nothingfuckingburger.
Emma
@I Am Not King Jon Snow: Paul Ryan is playing in the big leagues. He’s in a pitched battle of his own choosing.
Corner Stone
@Emma: No one is demanding her resignation. Get a hold of your self.
She pulled a stunt that needed to be called out. You want to defend someone no matter what the line starts that way:
——>
Trentrunner
Rachel just said the “big story” tonight was us “obtaining” this return.
Not the CONTENT of the return.
Nothing. Burger. No. Mayo.
Corner Stone
@Trentrunner: Links?
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: Can you impeach a TV pundit?
Adam L Silverman
@sukabi: No, it authorizes Mulvaney as head of OMB to oversee through every department and agency head an audit of all the lines of operation at each department and agency to determine what, if anything, they are doing that is duplicative of efforts by other departments and/or agencies, is necessary, would be more appropriately done at the state level, and/or by the private sector in order to determine what redundancies can be done away with and what functions can be shifted to either the state leel or to the private sector.
Baud
@Trentrunner: The rest of the media should do some real work instead of criticizing their betters.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
DCJ just said IRS has better systems than CIA and won’t be hacked.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@different-church-lady: Is that the name for “I knew it was nothing” before seeing what it is? Is that the name for “I hope nobody every listens to her again”?
Skepticism is warranted. Pre-broadcast decision to take Hannity’s line is not.
And by the way one of the paid trolls’ goals is to get the left sniping at each other. They were very successful at it. The fact that it’s happening again here reinforces my suspicions that the “skepticism” is being fanned by a panicked troll attack.
I Am Not King Jon Snow
@Citizen_X:
There’s nothing wrong with reporting on the leaked return. Trouble is, Rachel way overhyped it. And I didn’t need the sermon while I waited for the story. Felt like I was in church.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: Stay out of my fucking mailbox, ass.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Brother! Long time no see!
I helped my parents move 5 years ago – tossed bales of expired food. Helped them move again 3 years ago – tossed bales of food that expired prior to the PREVIOUS move. How do they do it?
Trentrunner
@Baud: Rachel is no one’s better tonight. This was clickbait bullshit overhyped and obviously leaked by Trump (it says CLIENT COPY on Maddow’s copy of the return).
I hope she pays a price for it and learns something. You could see that Chris Hayes was struggling to find something “breaking” worthy to say about it. He wasn’t able to.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: Are you sure church ladies should be drinking? Do I have to say an Our Father and a Hail Mary for you?
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: That’s a bit harsh.
liberal
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: LOL…IRS’s systems are probably too old to be hacked.
MomSense
@Aimai:
We are not an ideal audience.
Baud
@Trentrunner: You’re overreacting as much as the Rachel defenders here are. The media pumped up the stupid email story for a year. This is far more newsworthy. I would like the tax return issue to stay in the news.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady: Nothing says Presidential scandal like interviewing Michael Beschloss.
MomSense
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Loved it.
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack (tablet): You have gotta to be kidding me.
Trentrunner
Now “Geraldo Rivera” is trending, because everyone is comparing this to Rivera’s finding Capone’s vault empty 30 years ago.
Geraldo. Rivera. Nice company, Rachel.
liberal
@Trentrunner: yeah… I knew that wasn’t good.
different-church-lady
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Like we weren’t going to go ahead and do that anyway?
Baud
@different-church-lady: You would say that.
Trentrunner
@Baud: I, too, would like Trump’s taxes to be a story…when there’s a goddamn story.
You have MSM reporters tweeting the gif of Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown.
Rachel blew it tonight. Period.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: I just wanted to make sure I was inoculated for when you started detailing the *other* mailers that may…accidentally…have found their way into one’s box.
liberal
@Adam L Silverman: the funny thing is he used the First Ladies’ nudie spread to make that point.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Are you actually a cat?
amk
@Adam L Silverman: Your PhD’s are showing.
Adam L Silverman
@Trentrunner: That seems to be Sahil Kapur’s take:
different-church-lady
@Baud: [glares] And just what is THAT supposed to mean?
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: ok…they’re seeing where there’s money to be siphoned off…. Got it.
Emma
@Corner Stone: And who died and made you arbiter of the Universe?
Baud
@Trentrunner: I agree that this was overhyped, but those reporters have no credibility.
mai naem mobile
Wondering if Bannon Ratherized Rachel Maddow. Ugh, if that’s true. She should know better. I haven’t watched it. DVRd it for later.
Corner Stone
@Baud: I missed what we learned tonight from these two pages from over a decade ago?
liberal
@Adam L Silverman: right. But doesn’t Congress have the ultimate say here?
different-church-lady
Now what am I supposed to do with all this popcorn?
Baud
@different-church-lady: Oh you know what I’m talking about.
Trentrunner
NYTimes headline right now:
Um…that’s not a story that harms Trump. Since the leak of 1995 return, the story/speculation was that Trump had paid ZERO taxes in the past 18 years.
This showed he paid $38 million. Great scoop, Rachel!
Corner Stone
Chris Hayes looks slightly embarrassed. To his credit, I guess?
different-church-lady
@Baud: I don’t even know what I’m talking about!
Baud
@Corner Stone: Not much. I thought that the alternative minimum tax issue was interesting.
Corner Stone
@Emma: I did. Didn’t you see my tweet about it?
Baud
@different-church-lady: Yeah, me either.
sigaba
The leak is real, the news is fake.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: If you are a church lady then I am a cat.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Then we’re both safe.
Corner Stone
@mai naem mobile: Save yourself the time. I’m sure there’s a Steven Seagal movie re-run on somewhere you can watch instead.
Or, ooh! ooh! maybe a Tiny House episode on somewhere!
amk
pox news does smear much, much better and makes it stick.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
yes, it was overhyped, but so what. that never stopped the msm from overhyping every single clinton email story.
not sure why our side is required to meet a higher standard.
BlueDWarrior
@mai naem mobile: I don’t think Bannon is smart enough to plan that far ahead. This is more of a case of getting a hold of something you have been desperately trying to find and overselling the importance of that piece of something you got a hold of. Or in other words the very problem with news, especially cable news, in general.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Baud:
Yeah, this is another small chip in the wall, part of what is going to be a long, long campaign to bring down Trump. But everybody wants the silver bullet that will get it done right away.
BlueDWarrior
@Steeplejack (tablet): And we have to remember how much compiled crap it took to finally get rid of Nixon. Disposing of Herr Trump before his term(s) is/are up would have always been a monumental task, especially given how rabid the Republican Party has become over the last 10 years.
PsiFighter37
@Corner Stone: He probably wishes he could get back to talking about how some of his book tour shows are almost sold out.
I bet somewhere, Keith Olbermann is having a good laugh at this ‘spectacle’.
Hill Dweller
The tax forms prove Trump has paid taxes; and dispels the rumor of him using the huge losses in the 90’s to avoid paying any taxes. On some level, this leak actually helps Trump. What was Maddow hoping to accomplish?
Gravenstone
Interesting point that this was a joint filing (first year married to Melania). Any chance she’s the source?
Adam L Silverman
@amk: She asked. I answered.
BlueDWarrior
@Hill Dweller: it doesn’t really prove or disprove any of the narratives out there because it’s a certain and narrow vertical slice of someone with myriad means and levels of financing going on.
Baud
I guess we’ll just have to wait for WikiLeaks to release the full returns.
Trentrunner
@Steeplejack (tablet): HE FUCKING BRAGGED ABOUT SEXUALLY ASSAULTING WOMEN. Women corroborated it.
He still won.
So it’s adorable the way we think finding out Trump paid nearly $40M in taxes in 2005 is going to help “bring Trump down.”
America elected a fucking rapist bigoted used car salesman. And we think we’re going to bring him down by showing his…taxes.
Fuck Rachel for this.
amk
Great. Now beebs has a 24 point screaming headline about how the twitler paid a YUUUGE 38 MILLION tax. It’s a washout.
efgoldman
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
We’ve never needed “help” before. That’s like saying one of the astronomer’s goals is for the moon to come out at night.
PsiFighter37
@Baud: Assange will die in his little hole in the Ecuadorian embassy in London before that ever happens.
Adam L Silverman
@liberal: Yes.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: I can’t stand to watch any of MSNBC any more, so I didn’t see the show.
Wasn’t there some story before the election about his state taxes, with the implication that some state could possibly release it/them?
I doubt that this came from inside the current IRS. It seems more likely to have come from one of his many lawsuits, state regulatory agencies, etc., rather than from inside any official government agency.
Anyway, this particular 1040 doesn’t matter much. Yeah, it’s the Forms and Schedules and all the rest that fills up the bankers boxes that matters.
What does matter about this, though, is whether the GOP in Congress decides to use this as a pretext for a stepping-up of the war against the IRS. They already want to gut the place. If they can convince their voters that this “obviously” came from inside the IRS, then they’ll (at least think) they have enough backing to gut the agency even more. And then look out when it comes to “businesses” (like the neighbor who claims to have a DBA) and corporations going wild with trying to get out of federal taxes.
I assume DCJ is smart enough to recognize when he’s being played, so I assume it’s not from inside Trump’s people as a false-flag kinda thing. But who knows…
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: Make caramel corn balls? Give them out on St. Paddy’s Day.
Trentrunner
The typically prolix John Cole himself, via Twitter:
efgoldman
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
A couple of years ago mrs efg cleaned out the spice cabinet and tossed stuff from before we were married – in 1977
Gravenstone
@Trentrunner: You maybe want to take a breath there son? Go play in the snow or something? You’re gonna pop a blood vessel if you keep hyperventilating.
Baud
@Trentrunner: That is telling. Cole is usually so composed.
BlueDWarrior
@Gravenstone: By his logic if America is willing to make a rapist, maybe-but-who-knows massive tax cheat, used car salesman their President, then we just have to admit we’ve drawn dead and start over from scratch.
@Baud: I know right?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
everything a democrat does is overhyped, with impunity
everything a winger does is ignored, with impunity.
we have become so accustomed to this we get dizzy if the table is turned.
Hill Dweller
@BlueDWarrior: Actually, the rumor was Trump had been using the multi-billion dollar losses in the 90’s to avoid paying federal taxes for the better part of the last 20 years. This proves he was paying taxes for at least one year. Granted, I still think Trump(and his children and son-in-law) is corrupt, and likely involved in multiple illegal schemes with both the Russians and Chinese. But this leak doesn’t shed any light on said illegalities, and likely hurts Maddow at a time when she was doing a good job explaining some of the schemes Trump and family are involved in.
Corner Stone
All the media is replaying is the tax paid by Trump number. No one is ever going to hear anything else on this again.
I have a few alerts set for a mobile device and that’s at least four so far.
Ella in New Mexico
@Trentrunner:
@Baud:
News here: he doesn’t make as much money as he says he does. Also, she pointed out a $100 million dollar loss carryover, which is one of his tricks for evading taxes.
What happens when someone connects those losses to yet another Russian mobster money laundering bailout?
Corner Stone
@Hill Dweller:
TRMS was getting a lot of traction connecting the dots, in her own way, on Trump, his team and Russia.
Corner Stone
@Ella in New Mexico: If it’s not a Federal prosecutor…shrugs.
Corner Stone
@Another Scott:
I wouldn’t walk too far down the path on that premise. This is looking like a rolling.
Ella in New Mexico
@Corner Stone: well, there’s a whole lot of work being done to hand over to a Federal Prosecutor or Independent Council right now, by a lot of good people.
It’s all about connecting these dots in the spiderweb of Trumpland. Long game.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Yes and the NY Times reporters went on Maddow’s show to go over what they had.
BlueDWarrior
@Corner Stone: I think so far the mistake here was overvaluing the newsworthiness of this information. Because I don’t doubt that Trump has paid a lot of tax in given years, otherwise his audits would have came down even harder on him than they have to date. The issue is a combination of A) him having so many dealings with shady people that it looks problem, B) it takes some steam out of the other work she had been doing speaking to issue (A).
So I hope that she properly puts this in context in later shows, shows contrition if necessary, and then get on about the work.
Trentrunner
@BlueDWarrior: Rachel just shouldn’t have sent the first tweet, period. That was the original sin.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: This is marked client copy. Given the date its either from the batch that had to be disclosed in the President’s lawsuit against Tim O’Brien – one of his biographers – or it was released by the President himself through a cutout. Given that this takes pressure off of the Trumpcare/Ryancare debacle and the Russian influence stuff and allows the President to play the victim, I think she got played.
Johnston has very publicly set up a new reporting shop in DC to look into the President and all of his financial dealings. He’s a long time antagonist of the President’s and one of his unofficial biographers. Johnston’s legit, but I think he got used in the hope of playing someone and in this case it was Maddow.
Trentrunner
@Adam L Silverman:
Yup.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Ella in New Mexico: But first there has to be an independent counsel. How do we get there?
I think it’s a deflection, and kindly Doc Maddow got played a bit.
BlueDWarrior
@Adam L Silverman: I mean it will, but given what it is he is trying to do with Trump/Ryancare and just the myriad tendrils that are going everywhere from Russian and Chinese banks to the Trump Clan, any benefit he gets from this will probably be gone by the beginning of April if not sooner.
Similar to how his not-quite STOU got him about 36 hours worth of positive coverage before the worm turned again on him.
I just don’t think this is a sea(?) change in how Trump will be viewed vis-a-vis his business dealings.
Corner Stone
All of the Trump team were ready and surprisingly on point for this “revelation”.
amk
This will inoculate the twitler against any future genuine he-paid-zero-taxes revelations. Time to move on and concentrate on what he and his gang of thugs are doing right now.
KlareCole
@Ella in New Mexico: Long game, that’s worth remembering. We have a lot of comment about impatience with Rachel tonight. The right wing has converted half the nation through incessant repetition. RM has to repeat a lot because people don’t understand high dollar finance, crime or treason. If you expect DT to be brought to any kind of heel, we will have to bear a lot repetition & drip drip. I just hope it all makes the WH as miserable as Benghazi & the email repetition made me.
Corner Stone
This guy Lawrence has on is heavily medicated.
SteveinSC
Rachel is a self-important, self-promoting pedant and she, and MSNBC, got taken tonight. Her PhD was in what again? Health policy? or some such nothing. Oxford must have really needed the money. And a special note to Gravenstone : Go Fuck yourself.
Corner Stone
Great. Now we know Trump was, in fact, paying taxes.
Ella in New Mexico
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Again, this is all about the long game. Benefit is it brings the tax thing front and center again, as well as highlights again that he’s a big fucking liar. He’s no billionaire, he sucks at business, and as this is rolling out tonight, his spokes turns and son are inflating the dollar amount he paid in taxes literally by the hour.
Plus, there’s no way This shit will not get correlated with some sonofabitch foreign crook he does businesse with. Please just be patient.
Adam L Silverman
@BlueDWarrior: No I don’t see a sea change either. And the real question will be whether he gets himself worked up and starts tweeting at 5 AM about how bad MSNBC is.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Ah! Is this in Marijuana Studies?
Just saw a breaking news alert about Maddow while out and about. The comments here are far more interesting. But if the revelation gives Trump heartburn, it’s worth it.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: The question would be, “Why now?”
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: In the long game, this was a small step backwards.
Ella in New Mexico
@KlareCole: exactly
mike in dc
People expecting things neatly wrapped in a bow will be disappointed. This is a multi-thousand piece jigsaw puzzle, and most revelations give you only a piece or three at a time.
different-church-lady
I’m so old I can remember when having a big income meant you couldn’t possibly care about the working class.
Ella in New Mexico
@Omnes Omnibus: nope. Just more drip drip drip and there will be connections and correlations made that will further the cause.
Corner Stone
@Ella in New Mexico: This is a ridiculous take. he paid $38M in taxes one year. Full stop. That whole line of attack is over. Gone.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: My mileage differs.
ETA: A 12 y/o 1040 tells us fuck-all. The over-hyping hurts just a little bit.
Gravenstone
@SteveinSC: Excuse me fuckstain? Unless you’re Trentrunner in drag, I ain’t said shit to your ignorant ass. Kindly fling yourself upon the nearest available conflagration.
Hill Dweller
Maddow isn’t dumb. Was she just looking for a ratings bump? Is another shoe going to drop? Adam Khan, who seems to know everything about Trump’s dealings, says these returns could show Trump didn’t disclose millions he made that year. I hope so, because Maddow is going to take a hit for this if it doesn’t lead anywhere.
different-church-lady
SEE WHAT THE RUSSIAN TROLLS DO TO US?!?
Ella in New Mexico
@Adam L Silverman:
Which is why the the drip-drip-drip of this shit and what it provokes in Trump and his gang is so important to the overall cause…
pseudonymous in nc
He leaked it himself because it was the best one to leak. (2006 is when the Russian money started coming in bigly.) DCJ is a good enough reporter to work through that to the other side.
There is not going to be a magic bullet here.
Gravenstone
@Corner Stone: After repeatedly claiming he pays hundreds of millions per year. He doesn’t even earn hundreds of millions.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Maybe he found the mustard.
different-church-lady
Would y’all please stop looking for emotional comfort in the credibility of your favorite pundits? It doesn’t matter in the slightest whether Rachel Maddow “takes a hit” unless you’re invested in a trash-talking competition.
KlareCole
The tax return seems anticlimactic, but again, it is the endless repetition that bears fruit. Anyone read George Lakoff? I’ve been interested on his perspective on making small inroads into the right wing ‘mind.’
KlareCole
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Cole’s sandwiches always necessitate a trip to the grocery store at our house.
Corner Stone
@Gravenstone: It doesn’t matter. No one is going to think that way. This was a serious fuckup.
Corner Stone
@KlareCole: Do you think the people who attended the Hayes/Sanders Townhall watches TRMS? Or anything after her 20 minute lead-in?
KlareCole
@Corner Stone: ? Full line of attack gone? Nah, this is all way too juicy, with reason just under the rug.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: Deep breaths, please. Four years from now this doesn’t even rate a passing mention on anyone’s Wikipedia page.
different-church-lady
@KlareCole: Or not. Not is also a possibility.
KlareCole
@Hill Dweller: Could be, but there is so much dodo flying everywhere, a true storm every day, that there will be a couple major distractions every day. Rump loves to make a ruckus, he can’t learn from his mistakes, so he will keep Rachel and all the journalists busy.
KlareCole
@different-church-lady: If you mean about the rug & treason, you are right.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady: I don’t care about Maddow and how she comes out of this. It was a stunt and it backfired. She got rolled and the smug Santa wannabe DCJ got the hits he wanted as well.
This is not a step forward in the move to get Trump held accountable. By any body.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I agree, but I also don’t think this is a big deal.
Ella in New Mexico
@Corner Stone: @Omnes Omnibus:
With all due respect, you guys need to CTFD. Go read some Adam Khan and John Schindler and Kurt Eichenwald’s stuff and you’ll begin to have hope again. This is another small yet-nicely-juicy piece of a puzzle that will help connect significant dots and help the media open up a lot of questions about Trump’s associations and whether or not he’s a big fucking liar.
Also, the awesomeness of figuring out who actually leaked the damn POS. THAT will be a fascinating story when it hits, and it will hit.
Plus: he might actually Tweetle sometime between now and 6am, and you should know by now just how AWESOME those Tweetles end up being for our side.
Just stay positive.
Ella in New Mexico
@Corner Stone: I disagree an it’s time to move on.
Ella in New Mexico
@KlareCole: Yes. This EXACTLY.
KlareCole
@Corner Stone: Re: Hayes program last night. Cole is a West Virginian, I am. But No, guessing not many in red states watch much Rachel. But do you think that is Rachel’s or MSNBC’s audience, or this blogs? In Solzhenitsyn’s books he often wrote that the narrator would be shocked to find himself unexpectedly looking into the face of an intellectual. And like maybe it was a lady scrubbing floors who had been demoted from the professional class. I grew up in Appalachia & struggle with the paradox of the people around me. I watched the McDowell Co./Hayes program. I have always worked to help but have been so frustrated to see so many shoot themselves in the foot. Reach those communities & you have really done something.
Corner Stone
@Ella in New Mexico: This is a stupid take. Long game my balls.
KlareCole
I didn’t get to read all the blog here tonight, but I heard a lot of disappointment. I figure we are all dying to see Rump hauled off to the Gulog. I guess it will take more than one little 1040.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ella in New Mexico: Calm the fuck down? Really? I said it was a minor step backwards. A misstep. Don’t talk to me about having hope. I have been calling out dead-enders here since the election. I called this for what I saw it as. Not the best thing ever. I will stop now.
Lorenzo
So, after all the alarums and excursions, we learn that Trump paid $38 million in taxes on $150 million income (25.3%) and there was no Form 1099 from BadenovCollusion Inc.
I am disappoint.
frosty
@Adam L Silverman: Ouch. I’ve never seen her show but from what I’ve heard …
PS, I get all my news from Totally Reliable Sources: Balloon Juice.
frosty
@raven:
Been there….but did you use it anyway? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Another Scott
Supposedly DCJ has a story about the return on his new web site – DCReport.org, but apparently the site has crashed due to all the traffic… FWIW.
I’m no expert but the “Client Copy” stamp doesn’t mean that Donnie leaked it, 12+ years is a long time for a paper copy of a document to be kept from “prying eyes” if someone is really interested, and I’d assume that Donnie really doesn’t want to talk about his taxes (he’s trying to keep the Congress from investigating him, after all).
And paying $31M via the AMT isn’t exactly a glowing recommendation that everything he’s doing is on the up-and-up, either. But he has said he wants to scrap it (WARNING: Autoplay video on the page, and typical CNBC propoganda in the whole piece):
Oh, those poor folks – they make so much money that they have to figure their taxes twice. It’s such a burden. It’s a shame that they can’t pay someone to do that calculation for them. Or maybe someone should invent something like a “computer program” that makes that job easier. I wonder why that hasn’t happened yet?!?
More seriously, I guess Donnie really isn’t “super wealthy” after all, huh. ;-)
Will this have legs? Dunno. But I don’t think it helps him very much at all. He wants people to forget about his taxes, not be talking about them while he’s trying to say how great he is at creating jobs and MAGA and keeping DC safe from the snowstorm and ….
Cheers,
Scott.
frosty
@raven: Damn, you got me beat of my useless MS in Urban Planning!
KlareCole
@frosty: It just doesn’t rise as well. Old baking powder, flat biscuits. =)
frosty
@Ruckus:
I’m aspiring to that status, myself.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott:
I am guessing “Client Copy” means the copy the accounting firm gives to the client.
There are lots of reasons a person would share a 1040 with another organization, to prove income — loans, mortgages, and in the case of lower income people… (wait for it…) subsidized health insurance under the ACA. It’s quite possible this is a copy of the Client Copy leaked from somewhere outside of Trump’s organization.
Omnes Omnibus
@frosty: Flaneur sounds more sophisticated.
different-church-lady
@Ruckus: In order to retire from being a bum, do you need to go out and get a job?
Another Scott
@different-church-lady: Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Feebog
I agree with Omnes about this. I was disappointed there wasn’t more meat on the bones but at least I didn’t break a tooth trying to gnaw them.
Another Scott
@Feebog: I like Drum’s take – http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/trumps-tax-return-suggests-hes-most-incompetent-billionaire-nation
Hehe.
Cheers,
Scott.
Patricia Kayden
@Mike J: Now you’re talking. Excellent strategy!