Open Thread: Nobody Likes the ‘ACHA’ / Trump-Ryancare Bill

White House officials late Monday night disputed that the document is an analysis of the bill’s coverage effects. Instead, they say it was an attempt by the OMB to predict what CBO’s scorekeepers would conclude about the GOP repeal plan…

According to documents viewed by POLITICO, the OMB analysis intended to assess the coverage and spending outcomes of the legislation.

The analysis found that under the American Health Care Act, the coverage losses would include 17 million for Medicaid, 6 million in the individual market and 3 million in employer-based plans.

A total of 54 million individuals would be uninsured in 2026 under the GOP plan, according to this White House analysis. That’s nearly double the number projected under current law…

Last week, several Republican senators, expressing doubt about CBO estimates, said OMB was expected to issue its own estimates of the plan.

“We disagree strenuously with the report that was put out,” Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price told reporters Monday about the CBO after leaving a Cabinet meeting with President Donald Trump at the White House. “It’s just not believable is what we would suggest.” Price, while serving as the House Budget Committee chairman, had a role in appointing the current head of the CBO, a conservative economist…

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319 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Maybe they should have gone with the World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017 instead.

  2. 2
    Raoul says:

    TrumpRyanCare is stunningly badly crafted, and is hated on the right, left and center. So why is it even alive? I know, tax cuts! But even that doesn’t really explain the mania.

    Overnight I was wondering if the Banon wing of the WH operation was setting up Ryan for a death-blow to his career (Breitfart attacks fit this theory), and that the big Trump rescue will be Medicare for all, rammed past the GOP in a final, fracturing explosion of the current political duality.

    Then I woke up and felt as depressed and shitty about American politics as one really probably can.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    I don’t understand all the comments today about Bannon. Didn’t Trump stump hard for this?

  4. 4
    trollhattan says:

    But, his emails (wot?)

    Secretary of State Rex Tillerson used an email alias to discuss issues related to climate change while he was an executive at ExxonMobil, according to the New York attorney general.

    Attorney General Eric Scheiderman made the claim in a letter Monday asking a New York state judge to enforce a subpoena for documents in the state’s probe into whether Exxon misled investors about what it knew about climate change and its impact on the company.

    “OAG found that Exxon’s former Chairman and CEO, Rex Wayne Tillerson, utilized an alias email address on the Exxon system under the pseudonym ‘Wayne Tracker’ from at least 2008 through 2015,” John Oleske, a lawyer in Schneiderman’s office, wrote in the letter. “Mr. Tillerson used this secondary email address to send and receive materials regarding important matters, including those concerning to the risk-management issues related to climate change that are the focus of OAG’s investigation.”

    Oleske wrote that Exxon included emails from the “Wayne Tracker” account in documents provided to the attorney general, although Exxon had not previously disclosed that Tillerson used an additional email account while he was there.

    Schniederman’s office also complained that the documents Exxon recently submitted did not completely fulfill the state’s request.

    Exxon acknowledged in a statement to the Wall Street Journal that the “Wayne Tracker” email does exist.

  5. 5
    Raoul says:

    @Baud: Trump stumped hard for repeal and “you’ll get something better, cheaper, more coverage, believe me!” TrumpRyanCare plainly screws a big chunk of Microwave MaoMao’s base, so they are distancing themselves fast from this shoddy, fast-sinking ship.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @Raoul: Right. But I thought he also pushed hard for the GOP to support the Ryan bill specifically.

  7. 7
    KG says:

    @Raoul: For six or seven years, Republicans promised to repeal and/or replace the ACA. They knew that they never had to craft a replacement bill because Obama would veto every attempt to repeal (so replacement never got to the table). Now, they are the dog that caught the car (as I believe Erza Klein called them recently) – they don’t know what to do. But they know they have to do something after so much time of promising to repeal and/or replace… the problem is, there’s no good option out there for them. Even the one that many of them believe, which is that the federal government little to no role in providing health insurance to individuals, is a nonstarter because most of them would get drummed out of office in their next election. Nor does it help that Obamacare is basically a federal version of Romneycare in Massachusetts which was a state version of the Republican plan in the 90s to counter Hillarycare. So, to cross my metaphors, they’ve painted themselves into a corner.

  8. 8
    SFAW says:

    @Baud:

    I thought you were joking about the name on the bill.

    The stones on those motherfuckers.

  9. 9
    p.a. says:

    @Baud: @Raoul: @Baud:
    Are you all working on the assumption that tRump can understand a complex piece of legislation!!?? He’s maxed out at a restaurant menu.

  10. 10
    Raoul says:

    @Baud: That was last week. This week in “can’t find their asses with both hands”, it’s opposition week!

    @p.a.: Good point. But Banon, while evil and not well versed in the ways of legislating on Capitol Hill, is not stupid. And Reince, while a chinless quivver of enabling shit, does know his way around D.C.
    So, I’d say the clusterfuck is at the senior staff level. That the figurehead is Max Headroom stupid doesn’t matter that much.

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @p.a.: I didn’t say he understood it. I said he supported it.

  12. 12
    smintheus says:

    Meanwhile, Republican moderates are quibbling about the bill because they want to drive 12 million people off of Medicaid two years later than the Republican extremists want to.

    Dent told CNN that rolling back the Medicaid expansion before 2020 — which conservatives have been asking the White House to do — would be a “non-starter”…An emerging concern from House moderates is they could be asked to walk the plank on a health care bill that doesn’t have a chance of passing the Senate in the first place. Dent compared it to the 1993 fight over the so-called BTU energy tax under President Bill Clinton where House Democrats supported the controversial tax only for it to die in the Senate. The vote hurt Democrats who lost control of Congress the following year.

    See, it’s not about the people on Medicaid or how soon the GOP gives them the shaft. It’s about smoothing Dent’s re-election bid in 2018.

  13. 13
    MattF says:

    @SFAW: But, somehow– it just isn’t working. Maybe Obamacare’s political Viagra has been removed from their drug benefit’s pharmaciutical formulary.

  14. 14
    Brendan in NC says:

    @KG: whatever you do, don’t cross the streams

  15. 15
    MattF says:

    Bah. I wrote a comment that has an obvious bad word, so I’m in moderation. I’m really sorry.

  16. 16
    TrabbsBoy says:

    Glad to see the breakdown of who would lose coverage. I have been getting the sense that the Republicans are trying to imply that most of those losing coverage are the young people who don’t want insurance because it is cheaper to pay for health care out of pocket, so they see Obamacare as unfair to them. But 17 million in Medicaid, 3 million in employer coverage and only 6 million individuals makes it pretty clear that that is not true.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @smintheus:

    1993 fight over the so-called BTU energy tax under President Bill Clinton

    Is that best ever Republican president Bill Clinton?

  18. 18

    I’m getting really sick of seeing people talk about how “Obamacare is Republican!” The GOP has changed so much in the last 50 years that’s like saying that if Lincoln were alive today he’d be kicking the Democrats out of their southern stronghold. Feh!

  19. 19
    Kay says:

    A NYTimes reporter is coming to our county to interview people who benefited from the Medicaid expansion. I’m contacting one of the people I know for a possible interview. I don’t know if she’ll do it.

    She’s a little bit mean, so I will tell her to be nice to the reporter :)

  20. 20
    bystander says:

    MSNBC’s talking head (Katie Tur?) just asked why Democrats are not stepping up to help fix the Trumpcare bill. Just critics and sniping! WAAAHHHH!

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: LGM keeps busting that lie wide open. Unfortunately, Obama himself tried that tact to win over GOP “moderates,” so it’s become entrenched.

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Right. ‘Republican’ in the sense of ‘facing implacable and non-negotiable opposition from Republicans’.

  23. 23
    germy says:

    as the National Review’s Rich Lowry notes:

    White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters last week, “When we get asked the question, ‘How many people are going to get covered?’ that’s not the question that should be asked.” Pressed on the merits of the bill by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s This Week, Office of Management and Budget director Mick Mulvaney shot back, “You’re worried about getting people covered.” As if that’s a woeful mistake.

  24. 24

    @bystander: I don’t think she is stupid. Just bought and paid for.

  25. 25
    Raoul says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I agree with your sentiment, but we do need to acknowledge that PPACA is a market-based, less-than-full-coverage compromise that didn’t really fulfill many progressives goals for health care.
    Maybe it really was all that could get thru in the modern era, but it wasn’t IMO a deeply Democratic or Progressive plan!

  26. 26
    Yutsano says:

    @smintheus: Oh good. Dent can join the unemployment line next year as well.

    @Raoul:

    PPACA is a market-based, less-than-full-coverage compromise that didn’t really fulfill many progressives goals for health care

    It’s a hugely scaled down version of the Swiss system without the safeguards and protocols that make the Swiss system work.

  27. 27
    The Moar You Know says:

    MSNBC’s talking head (Katie Tur?) just asked why Democrats are not stepping up to help fix the Trumpcare bill.

    @bystander: Best possible thing Dems could do is take a four-year vacation. Just let these schlubs bury themselves in their own feces.

  28. 28
    Raoul says:

    @The Moar You Know: 601 days.
    And they need to be out on the hustings kicking GOP ass daily, hard. Mid terms. MID TERMS!

  29. 29

    @Baud: The Times had a piece today that had “Obamacare is Republican!” as one of its central points, arguing that, basically, the fundamental structure of the bill was designed so that Susan Collins would vote for it which is why Republicans are stuck with it. It’s so dumb. I hate it. As somebody who actually paid attention to the process… it’s amazing how many people who are paid to write about it apparently didn’t.

    @Raoul: So what? That doesn’t make it Republican.

    ETA: There is no Republican alternative to Obamacare not because Obamacare is the Republican alternative but because Republicans aren’t interested in providing a solution to the problem in the first place. This is a very important distinction, calling Obamacare a Republican bill ignores it.

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @Baud: tact = tack, or tactic if you prefer.

  31. 31
    Shell says:

    Did I read Cole’s Twitter feed aright? Steve is missing again?

  32. 32
    Kay says:

    @germy:

    That part is, I think, ideological. What they’re most afraid of is health care as a right. That’s been true for 30 years. They want to portray it as a consumer choice, a menu of options. Giving in on the point that “everyone” should be covered puts it in the “rights” column and they don’t want it there.

  33. 33
    PPCLI says:

    @bystander: The Democrats have proposed a fix for Republicare. It’s called the ACA.

  34. 34

    @Major Major Major Major: Stuff I am tired of reading on Balloon Juice
    1. Obamacare is Republican
    2. Bannon is going to eat us all in our sleep
    3. We are never going to have elections again
    4.Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate
    5.Democrats should have pushed for single payer.
    ………

  35. 35
    Aleta says:

    Anbang was created in 2004 as an insurance company in China. Its ownership is opaque and it is currently on a spending binge, buying real estate throughout the world.

    The firm’s activities created suspicion and concern in the Obama administration. The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) objected to Anbang’s bid to buy Hotel del Coronado near San Diego, citing national security concerns. The hotel shares a peninsula with a Navy base.

    After Anbang bought the Waldorf hotel in New York, Obama broke tradition and stayed elsewhere when he visited the city due to “security, counterintelligence and cybersurveillance concerns.”

    -Think Progress article on Kushner-China

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah, the purpose behind pitching it that way has long been rendered moot by events.

  37. 37
    Jacel says:

    @Raoul: “TrumpRyanCare” — is there some way that Mitch can also be tarred with this abomination?

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Just like voting.

  39. 39
    MattF says:

    @Jacel: McConnell has been rather quiet lately, no?

  40. 40
    germy says:

    Actor Kal Penn shared photos of old scripts for auditions and roles he has done to his Twitter on Tuesday, making a point about racialized stereotypes in Hollywood perceptions and portrayals of South Asian and Middle Eastern characters.

    The scripts include characters named “Ghandi lookalike,” and another called “Foreign student.” Penn noted, “Ha! In this audition for Smart Guy, they didn’t even give the character a name!”

  41. 41

    @Jacel: RepublicansDon’tCare.

  42. 42
    Shell says:

    “TrumpRyanCare” —

    I like AM Joy’s “Try-N-Care.”

  43. 43
    germy says:

    @Kay: Who is the genius (his name has not come down to us) who first merged the healing arts with the profit motive?

  44. 44
    debbie says:

    asked and answered.

  45. 45
    Kay says:

    @Aleta:

    It’s impossible to overplay how gross they are. It’s one article about them self-dealing nearly every day.

    This is 2 months in. They’re just warming up.

  46. 46

    @Baud: They didn’t go all-in on a mandate-subsidies-guaranteed issue framework because of Susan Collins, they did so because it’s the bill they wanted and could agree on. Even the House couldn’t cobble together a decent public option.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    @germy:

    I don’t know. I always feel like the real profit center is dentistry :)

    My dentist is, I’m not kidding, genuinely wealthy. He skis in Europe. Our physicians are sorta downscale and frumpy compared to him.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Scott Brown’s election killed any chance of marginal improvement to the framework.

  49. 49
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    6. 2018 elections will solve all our problems.
    7. Fascist Behavior by Trump can be solved by the magical power of protesting!
    8. Just because the Republicans have power means they will still play by the rules to change power when it comes time for them to step down.

  50. 50

    @p.a.: Dolt 45 with a restaurant menu is easy, New York steak(well done with ketchup. ).

  51. 51

    @Baud: Mandate-subsidy-guaranteed issue was the framework. That wasn’t going to change, Ted Kennedy or not. And that’s what people mean when they say ‘ohh hur hur it’s a Republican bill’.

  52. 52
    Raoul says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    So what? That doesn’t make it Republican.

    Hence my saying “I agree with your sentiment.” Sheesh.

    ETA: “So what?” In our crappy binary political system, the implicit notion is that Obamacare is the desired end state of health care policy if it isn’t the Republican plan (and it isn’t!). That was my point.

  53. 53

    @Kay: You know how the British made inroads in India? By giving the local rulers huge bribes and asking for monopoly trading rights. Of course that morphed into getting paid to protect the local royalty. Till one day they had no use for them and decided to rule directly instead. Republicans better be careful.

  54. 54

    @Raoul: Sorry, I came in a little hot!

  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Right. But they could have made other improvements, maybe even a weak public option, if the bill could have made it to the conference committee.

  56. 56

    @TenguPhule: No, your blood and gore fantasies are the ticket.

    Nice strawpeople you have constructed there from 6-8.

  57. 57
    germy says:

    Meanwhile, the supreme court:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelli.....hinks.html

    Gorsuch’s dissent in TransAm Trucking has drawn some unadmiring scrutiny in recent weeks. An Associated Press article last month described the opinion as one that appears to “defy common sense and fairness,” while the progressive Constitutional Accountability Center asserted in a white paper issued Friday that Gorsuch’s “crabbed interpretation” of the law was “anything but a fair reading of a statute enacted to protect worker and public safety.”

    Realistically, nothing seems likely to derail Gorsuch’s nomination at this point. He has the votes and, truth be told, he is qualified for the post in terms of credentials and experience.

    But Judge Gorsuch’s rulings do highlight the stark disconnect between Trump’s populist campaign rhetoric and the gated-community elitism of his first High Court nominee.

  58. 58
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:

    @Baud: “Tack” is sailing terminology, for a heading with respect to the wind. Or just direction, if you prefer. Nothing to do with tactics.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Plus, the basic framework was what Obama campaigned on.

  61. 61

    @Baud: IIRC the public option in the House version was almost worse than no public option at all, and its shittiness might have had the political consequence of making a real one undesirable.

  62. 62
    Baud says:

    @Aardvark Cheeselog: I know. But both work in my original comment.

  63. 63
    p.a. says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Nowhere near the most criminal thing he has done/will do, but criminal just the same.

  64. 64
    Raoul says:

    @Jacel: McConnell is the craftiest bastard on Capitol Hill at the moment. He has managed to keep his filthy fingerprints off this, which pisses me off. I’m sure behind the scenes, he’s not innocent at all.

  65. 65
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I don’t remember that detail. Regardless, the haters would never have been satisfied.

  66. 66

    @Baud: Clearly he should’ve used the reverse bully pulpit then, and it would be single-payer the Republicans were dismantling instead.

  67. 67
    Brachiator says:

    @KG:

    For six or seven years, Republicans promised to repeal and/or replace the ACA.

    I think the GOP just talked about repealing Obamacare. They did not give much thought to what a replacement might be like. The main thing was to show that they were going to stand up to and oppose Obama.

    Later, Trump came along and sang a song of “repeal and replace” promising that his solution would be bigger and better than anything with Obama’s name on it.

    What they’ve come up with seems to be largely stale crap that Ryan had in his back pocket. It’s got his Randian principles all over it like stink on a skunk.

  68. 68
    The Lodger says:

    @germy: Wasn’t that Hypocrites, originator of the Hypocritical Oath?

  69. 69
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    Yet another phucking article about Dolt45’s supporters who voted to cut their own throats?
    Spare me.😒😒😒

  70. 70
    debbie says:

    @Raoul:

    Actually, at the moment, I’m listening to McConnell in a few clips on NPR’s “All Things Considered.” He’s towing the party line, focusing more on the lower taxes theme. I’m sure he’ll be more up front if and when the bill hits the Senate.

  71. 71
    dm says:

    @Major Major Major Major: They don’t mean that it was proposed by the Heritage Foundation as an alternative to Hillarycare in 1993, and put into place in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney?

    I agree that it’s probably the best we could have gotten, given the political make-up of the country (and that the Heritage Foundation wasn’t serious about it when they put it forward as an alternative, they just wanted a thing to pound Hillarycare with).

  72. 72
    Raoul says:

    I think the reality is that Obamacare was a kludge. Who gives a fvk if it reflects some RomneyCare aspects or was meant at one moment to have enticed an unwinnable Maine preener.
    It was an ugly kludge of efforts that, under any but modern GOP scorched earth politics, would have been tinkered and adjusted and improved along the past 7 years. It got us farther than we were, and thank g-d for that.

    Now even the kludge might be dashed to bits, and that needs to be averted as much as humanly possible.

    OK, I’m off to buy & cook dinner for my working man, and stop being quite so damn obsessed with my computer screen. Later….

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    I feel like it’s good though, that they’re covering it. I would be surprised if the person I’m contacting voted for Trump. She’s very dignified but also cranky as hell. She’s mean, basically :)

  74. 74
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    The thing is, they have limited clientele. If dental insurance were on par with regular insurance, we would need twice as many dentists as we have now.

  75. 75
    germy says:

    HillaryCare!

    According to an address to Congress by then-President Bill Clinton on September 22, 1993, the proposed bill would provide a “health care security card” to every citizen that would irrevocably entitle him or her to medical treatment and preventative services, including for pre-existing conditions.

    To achieve this, the Clinton health plan required each US citizen and permanent resident alien to become enrolled in a qualified health plan on his or her own or through programs mandated to be offered by businesses with more than 5,000 full-time employees. Subsidies were to be provided to those too poor to afford coverage, including complete subsidies for those below a set income level. Users would choose plans offered by regional health alliances to be established by each state. These alliances would purchase insurance coverage for the state’s residents and could set fees for doctors who charge per procedure. The act provided funding to be sent to the states for the administration of the plan, beginning at $14 billion in 1993 and reaching $38 billion in 2003.

    The plan also specified which benefits must be offered; a National Health Board to oversee the quality of health care services; enhanced physician training; the creation of model information systems; federal funding in the case of the insolvency of state programs; rural health programs; long-term care programs; coverage for abortions, with a “conscience clause” to exempt practitioners with religious objections; malpractice and antitrust reform; fraud prevention measures; and a prescription drug benefit for Medicare, among other features.

  76. 76
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    I hope she does give the interview. I’d like to hear, in their own words, why Trump voters really thought Trump was a good idea for this country.

  77. 77
    Kay says:

    @germy:

    We have one dentist in the county who takes Medicaid patients and that’s all he takes. They pay 45 a procedure. He has really low overhead and is just billing one entity. He seems to be doing okay. 45 is low though. He’d have to do some volume.

  78. 78

    @dm: – Obamacare is not the Heritage plan
    – Romneycare also is not the Heritage plan
    – Romneycare was written by Democrats and passed out of a Democratic legislative body

  79. 79
    Another Scott says:

    @Major Major Major Major: American Prospect from 2014: No, Obamacare wasn’t a ‘Republican’ proposal by Scott Lemieux does a good job of debunking that old (but zombie) meme.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  80. 80

    @Raoul: What was so bad about Romney Care? It worked quite well in Massachusetts, we had the lowest # of uninsured people prior to ACA. I don’t know about the statistics right now. It was not a garbage plan like the one Ryan is proposing.

  81. 81
    Kay says:

    @debbie:

    I wouldn’t assume they are Trump voters. Most voters in this county are Trump voters but I would bet most Medicaid recipients in this county don’t vote at all. The person I’m thinking of was housekeeping at the hospital. She has bad knees so waited until she was eligible for the lowest pay-out on Social Security (62) and stopped working. That left her with a 3 year gap before Medicare. She simply couldn’t do manual work anymore and let’s be real, no one is training a 62 year old to do office work.

  82. 82
    germy says:

    @Kay: I hope he’s not doing unnecessary work. Too many dentists try that. I remember many years ago, a dentist telling me I had a cavity behind my front tooth. He offered to fill it. I declined. Later, a second opinion revealed… no cavity.

  83. 83
    MCA1 says:

    One good bit of news, at least if my impressions of the reporting and discussions of Don’tCare are correct: everyone’s focused on the single most simple, soundbyte-able concept: 24 million uninsured people. Seems like that’s all 75% of the population is hearing about this, and therefore that’s what everyone’s judging it by, and Price and Ryan and whoever else banging on about how other things in there will fix or minimize that problem or somehow overshadow it are not working. Nuance doesn’t sell, much to the chagrin of Democrats most of the time. 24 million uninsured; 55,000+ more uninsured in every Congressional district; tens of thousands needlessly dead for a tax cut. That sells. Kind of like “death panels” sold, sadly.

  84. 84

    @schrodingers_cat: Romneycare covered abortions, didn’t it?.

  85. 85
    raven says:

    @bystander: She’s Olberman’s “partner” and her dad is the transgender person who was a news helicopter pilot in LA for the Rodney King and OJ Simpson actions. She (her dad) is very interesting in the OJ Documentary.


    In July 2015, while on Dr. Drew On Call talking about Caitlyn Jenner accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award, attorney and former Breitbart editor-at-large Ben Shapiro questioned her genetics and called Tur “sir,” to which Tur responded by grabbing the back of Shapiro’s neck and telling him to stop or he would be going home in an ambulance. Shapiro filed a police report charging Tur with battery regarding the incident, and said that he intended to press charges.[26]”

  86. 86
    Brachiator says:

    @Raoul:

    I agree with your sentiment, but we do need to acknowledge that PPACA is a market-based, less-than-full-coverage compromise that didn’t really fulfill many progressives goals for health care.

    PPACA may not have fulfilled progressive goals, but Obamacare got insurance for millions of people who did not have it before. That seems to be a very worthy goal.

    This is not to say that Obamacare was the desired end of health care reform. It was just a start, and a start that is now vulnerable to Republican attack.

  87. 87
    bemused says:

    OMG. I didn’t realize the Ryan/Trump death plan, HR1275, is actually called the World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017. I can’t even…..

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    @bemused: It’s not. That’s a different bill.

  89. 89
    germy says:

    @bemused:

    I can’t even…..

    They’re trolling us. All those photos of them laughing together, it was probably over the name.

  90. 90
  91. 91
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    President Bannon and his pals at Breitbart don’t seem to be entirely in sync at the moment. Axios link (sorry)

  92. 92
    bemused says:

    @germy:

    They all have faces that beg to be punched.

  93. 93
    Hal says:

    So if this shit bill dies and Ryan and McConnell blame Trump, maybe we’ll get some congressional investigations into Russian links to Trump’s campaign after all.

  94. 94
    dm says:

    @Major Major Major Major: My memory was the plan was worked out between the legislature and Romney.

    Perhaps because I usually encounter it in Paul Krugman columns, I have always thought “Obamacare is just Romneycare is just Heritagecare” was addressed to middle-of-the-roaders as a way of highlighting Republican hypocrisy: “Hey, this plan has its roots among Republicans! The Republicans just have their knickers in a twist out of pure partisan spite, normal people can relax about it.”

    The LGM and Lemieux articles cited above seem to be responding to it as an argument in the mouths of purity ponies who thought it wasn’t good enough to support. I’m afraid I wasn’t paying attention to that argument, since … well, if Romneycare was the best Massachusetts could do, I didn’t think we’d be able to get much better nationally.

  95. 95
    gene108 says:

    @bystander:

    MSNBC’s talking head (Katie Tur?) just asked why Democrats are not stepping up to help fix the Trumpcare bill. Just critics and sniping! WAAAHHHH!

    Democrats have a fix, it is called Obamacare.

  96. 96

    @MattF: He’s too busy prancing naked through all that grift.

  97. 97
  98. 98

    @dm:

    My memory was the plan was worked out between the legislature and Romney.

    Which is not in contradiction with what I said. Just because Romney signed and implemented it doesn’t mean the Republicans controlled the legislature.

    And I guess I mostly run into it from purity ponies, so there you go. I also like people to be informed!

  99. 99
    gene108 says:

    @dm:

    I have only encountered Obamacare = Republican plan, as a slight from liberals, who want single payer and/or a public option, and it always comes across as a pejorative.

  100. 100
    rikyrah says:

    Steve is back home 😄😄😄

  101. 101
    gene108 says:

    @Hal:

    McConnell did not shaft Garland’s nomination in order to get into a pissing contest with a Republican President.

    Republicans know the good times they are enjoying rest heavily on a conservative Supreme Court majority willing to screw with voter rights and campaign finance laws.

    Get a liberal majority Supreme Court ruling against voter ID, excessive gerrymandering, and in favor of campaign finance laws and the Republican edge they have enjoyed for the last 7 years goes away.

  102. 102
    GregB says:

    Jimmy Durante Care-ACHA-CHA-CHA.

  103. 103
    NR says:

    Obamacare and Romneycare are not the same in every single detail, but the centerpiece of both plans – the mandate – is exactly the same.

  104. 104
    different-church-lady says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    2. Bannon is going to eat us all in our sleep

    I know. If he get’s hungry there’s no way he’s gonna wait around for us to fall asleep.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @rikyrah:

    Steve, John’s cat? Was he missing?

  107. 107
    different-church-lady says:

    @NR: The ‘centerpiece’ as you call it is only the centerpiece as far as public sentiment is concerned. In the actual mechanics of the law, it’s a trade-off for things like coverage of pre-existing conditions. Everyone was so focused on the mandate that nobody ever said, “Here’s what you get in return.”

  108. 108
    MomSense says:

    @gene108:

    Doesn’t she know you can’t fix stupid??

  109. 109

    @different-church-lady: First he is going to wash us in alcohol.

  110. 110
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Hal:

    You ARE an optimist.

  111. 111
    Eric U. says:

    I wanted single payer, but the troubles with the website show that would have been a really big mistake. Obamacare really turned around the death spiral that U.S. health care was in. I think the insurance companies realized that it was possible under that framework that they might be replaced. People don’t really realize how bad things were, I think if Trumpcare goes through they might see how terrifying it can be.

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I wonder if he will cook you tandoori style.

  113. 113

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Stuff I am tired of reading on Balloon Juice
    1. Obamacare is Republican
    2. Bannon is going to eat us all in our sleep
    3. We are never going to have elections again
    4.Hillary Clinton was a bad candidate
    5.Democrats should have pushed for single payer.

    6. NR

  114. 114
    les says:

    @dm:

    They don’t mean that it was proposed by the Heritage Foundation as an alternative to Hillarycare in 1993, and put into place in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney?

    Neither ACA nor the MA plan was the Heritage plan. And the MA plan was put in place by a Dem legislature over the Romney veto. From LGM, a handy reference:
    damn, can’t paste the chart. Look here.

  115. 115
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @KG: Republicans love to obstruct but don’t know how to actually govern. Here we have another blazing example of this with Republicans rejecting the ACA and voting to repeal it multiple times, all while never having a replacement.

    GOP = All hat. No cattle.

  116. 116
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    24,000,000 people covered.

    Remember how the Alt-Left, emoprogs, and Firebaggers wanted to “KILL THE BILL”

    Sick bunch of Total Losers.

    Sad!

  117. 117
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: Cook? Ghouls aren’t know for culinary patience.

  118. 118
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I know. If he get’s hungry there’s no way he’s gonna wait around for us to fall asleep.

    Thanks for the nightmares. Sigh.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @different-church-lady: Not even chutney?

  120. 120

    @SiubhanDuinne: Since Sunday night. But he’s back now.

  121. 121
    bemused says:

    @Kay:

    I’m tired of reading and hearing about the handwringing of Trump voters or just plain old disinformed heartland Republicans but I think the current articles and interviews now 50 days into the Trump regime might turn out to be useful. They sound a bit different than Frank Luntz type panels before the election. People are showing less confidence in Trump promises as at BS/Chris Hayes thing in WVA this week. The heartland folks do love to get paid attention to for one thing but the other is that they are able to talk out about their issues like the opioid tragedies and how they are getting no help and no money. Maybe, just maybe, they are connecting dots and willing to learn more.

  122. 122
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Obama Presidential Rating — Gallup — March 13, 2009

    Approve……………..61%
    Disapprove………..28%
    ————————————————————————–

    Trump Presidential Rating — Gallup — March 13, 2017

    Approve……………..39%
    Disapprove………..55%

    Both sides!

  123. 123
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: He strikes me as the kind who has a bottle of Tabasco nearby at all times.

  124. 124

    @Baud: Then he has to marinade me in yogurt. BTW I remember reading about a gruesome murder, when a man killed his girlfriend/wife by throwing her in a tandoor. So not exactly funny.

  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    Not even chutney?

    Too namby pamby liberal. Ketchup was good enough for the Dwarfs and its good enough for him.

  126. 126
    dm says:

    @gene108: Well, like I said, Krugman — and not too long ago, if memory serves, from Obama himself in that interview he did with Vox’s Sara Kliff and Ezra Klein in early January.

    Well, I guess you also heard it during the 2012 Republican primary, as “ObamaRomneyCare” (who was that? Google tells me Santorum).

    So that’s why I asked Major^4, since hearing this as a Purity-Pony-criticism is somewhat new to me.

  127. 127
    SFAW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Steve, John’s cat? Was he missing?

    He had a hissy fit (literally and figuratively) when he read that JCG said “I miss Lily” to ABC. He was all like “Was bin ich? Gehackte Leber?”

  128. 128
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    BTW I remember reading about a gruesome murder, when a man killed his girlfriend/wife by throwing her in a tandoor. So not exactly funny.

    Did she stick to the sides?

  129. 129
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Didn’t you bring up Bannon’s cannibalism in the first place?

  130. 130
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:

    Since Sunday night. But he’s back now.

    Crap, how the hell did I not know that? Thought I had at least scanned all the threads.

    Glad he’s back and, I assume, safe.

  131. 131
    different-church-lady says:

    @TenguPhule: “NOT EXACTLY FUNNY!”

  132. 132

    @TenguPhule: You can satisfy your own ghoulish curiosity.

  133. 133
    SFAW says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Republicans love to obstruct but don’t know how to actually govern.

    That’s because they don’t want to — they want to rule.

  134. 134
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Speaking of goulish, goulash goes great with human.

  135. 135
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: You know this how?

  136. 136

    @Baud: You are taking me too literally! But I did indeed. The tandoor murder case was a big deal, the guy was either some big shot businessman or politician.

  137. 137
    SFAW says:

    @Baud:

    Speaking of goulish, goulash goes great with human

    But only if you’re really Hungary.

  138. 138
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    He had a hissy fit (literally and figuratively) when he read that JCG said “I miss Lily” to ABC. He was all like “Was bin ich? Gehackte Leber?

    Not that there’s a thing wrong with it, but ABC might have done a bit of a double take if John had said “I miss Steve.”

  139. 139
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: Don’t you mean Hummus?

  140. 140
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    the guy was either some big shot businessman or politician.

    Sure, it always comes back to Shitgibbon, don’t it?

  141. 141
    WereBear says:

    Last heard from, a friend reported our blizzard has dumped 18 inches already. 18-20 was projected, and it’s far from over…

    Conference was sped up and let out early, barely made it home, now all snug on the couch with the car parked in a spot where it doesn’t matter how deep it gets.

  142. 142
    TenguPhule says:

    @SFAW:

    But only if you’re really Hungary.

    Eat Turkey.

  143. 143
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    But only if you’re really Hungary.

    Yes, Siam. I’d like Turkey, served on the finest China. But don’t let me Russia.

  144. 144
    dm says:

    @bemused: I get myself into trouble with the likes of schroedingers_cat because I fret that we may be mis-diagnosing the disease, and that means we’ll not find the cure.

    Here’s a good article, not the least because it talks to Clinton voters in Trumpsylvania. One of the saddest things is this:

    In Battle Creek, Jerome Patterson, 62, is driving past as I approach a church in the black part of town. He stops to warn me of the unchained and unleashed dogs in the neighborhood. He has been living in Battle Creek since 1972, except for time in the army. He is happy to talk, but initially won’t let me take his photo. “Shit, no! Black men don’t trust pictures for good reason. The police and reporters disrespect us.”

    I ask him about politics and Trump. “Most of the men I know didn’t vote. Nobody had the spirit this time. Trump or Hillary? Doesn’t make much difference. Things out here gonna stay the same. We had high hopes for Obama. But nothing changed. Blacks here didn’t end up being helped by him. I mean, he might have tried, but his hands were tied by both parties. Lots of us are just so frustrated. Nobody had the spirit.”

    “Didn’t vote”. “Didn’t have the spirit”. We have to find a way to change that. And I think we have to try to listen and understand in order to find that way.

  145. 145
    SFAW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Not that there’s a thing wrong with it, but ABC might have done a bit of a double take if John had said “I miss Steve.”

    I can’t really argue with that reasoning. However, I also don’t think Steve understands (yet) the finer points of human male-female relationships. But he certainly has a great teacher from whom to learn.

  146. 146

    @SiubhanDuinne: Well, she already knows about the dildo centerpiece and naked mopping. If that didn’t deter her..

  147. 147
    Aleta says:

    Trump keeps promise to think outside the box. Mining jobs will return to WVians as current workers killed off, injured.

    WV Senate bill eliminates mine safety enforcement
    State safety inspectors wouldn’t inspect West Virginia’s coal mines anymore. They would conduct “compliance visits and education.” Violations of health and safety standards wouldn’t produce state citations and fines, either. Mine operators would receive “compliance assistance visit notices.” And West Virginia regulators wouldn’t have authority to write safety and health regulations. Instead, they could only “adopt policies … [for] improving compliance assistance” in the state’s mines.

    … A new industry-backed bill would produce a wholesale elimination of most enforcement of longstanding laws and rules put in place over many years — as a result of hundreds of deaths — to protect the health and safety of West Virginia’s coal miners.

    Opponents are furious about the proposed changes but also fearful that backers of the bill could easily have the votes to push through any language they want. Longtime mine safety experts and advocates are shocked at the breadth of the attack on current authorities of the state Office of Miners’ Health, Safety and Training and the Board of Coal Mine Health and Safety.

    http://www.wvgazettemail.com/n.....nforcement

  148. 148
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, but you never know what will be the snapping point.

  149. 149
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    However, I also don’t think Steve understands (yet) the finer points of human male-female relationships.

    STEVE.

    UNDERSTANDS.

    EVERYTHING.

  150. 150
    Tripod says:

    @bystander:

    The fuck would any politician want anything to do with this mess?

    The house is fully engulfed in flame, the residents filled it with coal and lit it up because black man and the Three Stooges bucket brigade showed up with no water, no buckets and no plan. Run in and rescue them? Screw you.

  151. 151
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @dm:

    I spent the longest three years of my life in Battle Creek, MI. God, how depressing.

  152. 152
    Roger Moore says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Republicans aren’t interested in providing a solution to the problem in the first place.

    x1000. This is the point I always go back to in discussions of the politics of health care reform. The Republicans controlled both Houses during the Clinton administration, and they controlled both Houses and the Presidency during the Bush II administration. If they had placed any priority on passing HCR legislation, they had plenty of time to bring it up. That they didn’t should be taken as a sign that they don’t want to pass HCR. The only reason they have ever put forward any kind of HCR plan is as a worse alternative to Democratic plans.

  153. 153
    MomSense says:

    Can’t open the doors because the snow is so deep. We are supposed to have wind gusts of 60 mph tonight. Flashlights are ready!

  154. 154
    Baud says:

    @MomSense: Stay safe!

  155. 155
    Baud says:

    Via Reddit. This is awesome.

  156. 156
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: This is the advantage of living on the third floor :)

  157. 157
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MomSense:

    Wow! Please be safe!

  158. 158
    ThresherK says:

    Spousal ThresherK received a call that she doesn’t have to go to work tomorrow. Two days off in a row!

    As long as we don’t lose electricity we’re fine. I can light the gas stove with a firestick.

  159. 159
    TenguPhule says:

    @dm:

    “Didn’t vote”. “Didn’t have the spirit”. We have to find a way to change that.

    I think the white-hood parties lighting crosses on their backyards will take care of that problem soon enough.

  160. 160
  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    @Aleta:

    A new industry-backed bill would produce a wholesale elimination of most enforcement of longstanding laws and rules put in place over many years — as a result of hundreds of deaths — to protect the health and safety of West Virginia’s coal miners.

    Produces the world’s second smallest violin.

  162. 162
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Baud:

    Forgive my lack of technosophisticocompetence, but is there supposed to be any sound with that? It’s funny as fuck just with the visual, but if there’s an audio track my iPad isn’t picking it up at all.

  163. 163
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: No. I think it’s just a gif.

  164. 164
    MomSense says:

    We have heat if we lose power and I downloaded chapters 1-4 of Huckleberry Finn on audio if we lose power. Pretty cozy for now.

  165. 165
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Baud:

    No. I think it’s just a gif.

    Ah, that explains it. I never expect a gif from anyone except lamh.

  166. 166
    hovercraft says:

    @Baud:
    You act as if you don’t understand your opponent. When he said he was going to campaign hard for Tryancare, he meant it, then it got panned by everyone including the base, so he never said that, you just think he said he’d support it because the lying media reported that fake news. Twitler cannot be cornered, it’s just you misunderstanding what he says or not getting the joke, sarcasm, english, it’s you not him.

  167. 167
    Trentrunner says:

    Rachel just tweeted that they have “Trump tax returns. (Seriously)”

    If this ain’t DONALD Trump’s actual tax returns, I’ll be really pissed. Maddow overhypes her scoops as a habit, but this one…

    Well, we’ll just see.

  168. 168
    Roger Moore says:

    @Raoul:

    McConnell is the craftiest bastard on Capitol Hill at the moment. He has managed to keep his filthy fingerprints off this, which pisses me off.

    It should be marginally reassuring. If it were going to pass, I’d think he’d want to be there to take the credit.

  169. 169
    bemused says:

    @dm:

    One guy at Sanders thing in WVA said he doesn’t know much about politics but I think he voted for Trump. I’m just hoping that some of them will start to pay more attention, study the candidates and check how their legislators are voting instead of just getting their info/myths from their neighbors and wingnut media. Probably not though.

  170. 170
    TenguPhule says:

    @MomSense:

    I downloaded chapters 1-4 of Huckleberry Finn on audio if we lose power.

    And what will you do for fun after that first hour is over?

  171. 171

    Well that was fun, my internets went out yesterday and my home automation hub wouldn’t reconnect. I had to reset it, so 2 of the lights, the thermostat, and the door locks stopped working(there’s a manual override for the locks). So I’ve spent the better part of the last two days getting everything synched back up again.
    #FirstWorldProblems

  172. 172
    MomSense says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Ha! Hopefully rest for the big shovel tomorrow.

  173. 173
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Bannon will only eat the white meat because purity. And stuff.

  174. 174
    p.a. says:

    @MomSense: Probably only got 5-7 in down here but it was 2-motrin heavy. Got the salt and yaktrax ready for tomorrow. Stay safe.

  175. 175
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: A “Baptism of Booze”.

  176. 176
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Trentrunner:

    Rachel just tweeted that they have “Trump tax returns. (Seriously)”

    Thanks Obama!

  177. 177
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Intresting bit of speculation how Narcassist in Chief is going to take the AHRA failing after it’s been labeled Trumpcare. The bit about Bannon and Brienbart splitting with the White House sounds like blamestorm has already started. I suspect a major Twitter freakout at Ryan and the House over health care maybe in the future.

    Makes one wonder if the Russian invistigation, Trumpcare failure and his tanking popularity will be to much for Trump and he will just sulks off to his Florida House, isolates himself there and refuses to govern to punish the country.

  178. 178
    Another Scott says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It was stolen from TheDailyShow.

    :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  179. 179
    different-church-lady says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Did the guy who sold you that junk have an orange bill?

  180. 180
    zhena gogolia says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I missed it too. I thought Cole was still in CT because he was complaining about not getting any snow.

  181. 181
    hovercraft says:

    @Raoul:

    is not stupid. And Reince, while a chinless quivver of enabling shit, does know his way around D.C.
    So, I’d say the clusterfuck is at the senior staff level. That the figurehead is Max Headroom stupid doesn’t matter that much.

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Bannon is an evil moron, you have to be stupid to believe you can turn back the clock and make America and other western nations homogenous.

    Prius knows his way around the RNC, has never actually worked in government before, understanding conceptually and actually running the WH and trying to coordinate with the hill, very different. Throw in a toddler throwing tantrums every five minutes and you have a clusterfuck.

    The rest of the staff are also newbies, so on them I agree with you.

    The problem is they all believe that running government is easy and anyone can do it, turns out they were wrong. Now they’re all stuck in the deep end, none of them can swim and so far no one’s thrown then a rope.

  182. 182
    JMG says:

    I am getting too old for March snow with its density matched only by some imploding stars in galaxies far, far away. My wrist hurts, my knees really hurt, and I had a damn snowblower for a lot of the work. Fortunately, there’s wine.

  183. 183
    scottinnj says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Glad Obama pulled out his inner Hari Seldon and left the Second Foundation behind

  184. 184

    @Kathleen:

    Bannon will only eat the white meat because purity. And stuff.

    Maybe he’s like Strom Thurmond and has a shameful penchant for dark meat.

  185. 185
    p.a. says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Skynet is on to you.

  186. 186

    @SiubhanDuinne: I saw it on FB late this afternoon. Steve was back an hour or so later. Maybe Steve follows John on Twitter?

  187. 187
    dm says:

    @Trentrunner:

    Rachel just tweeted that they have “Trump tax returns. (Seriously)”

    Sean Spicer after he hears the news

  188. 188

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Did you remember to turn on your microwave camera?

  189. 189
    p.a. says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I thought Cole was still in CT because he was complaining about not getting any snow.

    … could… not… … … resist…

  190. 190
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Look at that face and he’s an internet troll – cheap booz and cheetos is his idea of a balanced diet.

  191. 191
    MomSense says:

    @p.a.:

    Heavy, wet snow is awful. We have probably a 14 inches or so now.

  192. 192
    Kathleen says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The thought of Bannon have penchants terrifies me.

  193. 193

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: You think he eats something in addition to whiskey by the barrel, then? How charitable.

  194. 194

    @different-church-lady: No, but some of the devices came from a place with lots of orange.

    Mine doesn’t have any buttons, just geo-sensing and reactions to actions like putting my phone in it’s dock.

  195. 195
    Peter says:

    Apologies for butting in, but Maddow just tweeted that she’s got the president*’s tax returns on her show tonight.

  196. 196

    @Kathleen: Ok so we are safe, because humans are the other red meat.

  197. 197

    @Major Major Major Major: No, but I do have cameras in almost every other room.

  198. 198
    Another Scott says:

    @dm: I was expecting Scanners-exploding-head.gif

    :-/

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Children livers for vitamins. The tears of the poor for flavor.

  200. 200

    @Trentrunner: She got them through the micowave or the TV?

  201. 201
    JPL says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Why wouldn’t the execs put Rachel on NBC nightly news? That would be ratings gold.

  202. 202
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Ok so we are safe, because humans are the other red meat.

    White meat. Its called long pork for a reason. /pedant

  203. 203
    Peter says:

    Her exact words:

    BREAKING: We’ve got Trump tax returns. Tonight, 9pm ET. MSNBC.

    (Seriously).

  204. 204
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m not sure if I’d be more afraid of the rooms that had cameras or the ones that didn’t.

  205. 205
    Kathleen says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Like the Obamacams that spied on The Crass and der Fuhrerious?

  206. 206

    @schrodingers_cat: Only Baud works through the microwave.

  207. 207

    @Baud: The bathroom doesn’t have a camera. I have them to keep track of the girls, I’ve also got two outside.

  208. 208

    @Peter: well, she didn’t say Trump’s, just Trump, so I’m calling BS hype and it’s Don Jr. or Tiffany.

  209. 209
    Kathleen says:

    @Major Major Major Major: In Bannon’s Amerussia Whiskey Barrel eats you.

  210. 210
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @hovercraft: “The problem is they all believe that running government is easy and anyone can do it, turns out they were wrong. Now they’re all stuck in the deep end, none of them can swim and so far no one’s thrown then a rope.”

    I think it’s more like Bannon flatters himself he’s the second coming of Machiavelli because he read an article on Conservapedia and watched all the Darth Vader scenes in Star Wars, so that makes him an expert, which is more than the rest who are just reciting the dogma of what ever conservative boutique subgroup they belong to.

    None of them know how to govern because in their mind that’s what evil people like Democrats do. True Conservatives one and only job is to insult and harass everyone else for being different than them.

  211. 211
    JPL says:

    @Peter: Why wouldn’t the execs put Rachel on NBC nightly news? That would be ratings gold.

    I posted the same above at 201

  212. 212
    TenguPhule says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I think it’s more like Bannon flatters himself he’s the second coming of Machiavelli because he read an article on Conservapedia and watched all the Darth Vader scenes in Star Wars

    I think rather he decided that Space Balls was close enough and went with that instead.

  213. 213
    Trentrunner says:

    @Peter: I’m pre-pissed off and super-disappointed in Rachel if it’s anything less than relevant DJT tax returns. But that careful wording makes me think it’s Ivanka’s or something like that.

    It’s lighting up Twitter. If it’s DJT, why isn’t it breaking news on NBC? This is weird.

  214. 214
    TriassicSands says:

    @Baud:

    Didn’t Trump stump hard for this?

    Do you mean during the campaign or over the past few days since the plan was announced?

    If you look at the blathering and babbling Trump did about health care on the campaign trail about the only feasible health care plan that could fit his stated preferences and promises would be some form of universal health care system, perhaps modeled on Medicare for all. All his nonsense about covering everyone with cheaper, better care is never going to be accomplished using market forces.

  215. 215
    Roger Moore says:

    @TenguPhule:

    White meat. Its called long pork for a reason. /pedant

    Most pork is actually red meat; the whole “the other white meat” business was a marketing lie. FWIW, the USDA considers all meat from mammals to be red.

  216. 216
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Cheetos stains are is a tribal marker. At lest that’s what I assume is up with his nose.

  217. 217
    Baud says:

    @JPL: The nightly news is only half an hour and she needs 20 minutes to introduce every lead story.

  218. 218
    TenguPhule says:

    @Roger Moore: It was a reference to how the proteins come out when cooked. Pork is “white” when well done.

  219. 219

    @Roger Moore:

    the USDA considers all meat from mammals to be red.

    Not after Dolt 45’s folk get though with them, if there’s an USDA at all.

  220. 220
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: But I’m assuming all Rethuglicans want all of our blood. They’re tired of fighting with Cheney for their share of cute warm puppy blood transfusions,

  221. 221

    @Baud: Actually the Nightly News is only 22 minutes, gotta get those Geritol commercials in.

  222. 222
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I think rather he decided that Space Balls was close enough and went with that instead.

    didn’t it come out that the nuclear launch code was “1,2,3,4”?

  223. 223
    efgoldman says:

    @MattF:

    McConnell has been rather quiet lately, no?

    He said today he expects it to pass. I only saw a clip, but I got the impression that was “pass the house.”
    Tailgunner Teddy has now joined Lee and Cotton (so the wingnuttiest of wingnuts) saying the bill won’t pass.

  224. 224

    In other news: My Sikh friend is afraid for her father to come and visit, he keeps the full beard and wears a turban. He is kinda frail because he just had a stroke. He was planing to visit this summer. Those plans are on hold now.

  225. 225
  226. 226
    TriassicSands says:

    @Baud:

    Yes, he did, after the new plan came out. Trump is so effing stupid he doesn’t realize that the Ryan plan couldn’t meet any of Trump’s stated preferences and promises except for tax cuts, which, of course, are incompatible with an affordable health care plan.

    The truly amazing thing is that nothing Trump says, and I mean nothing, means anything at all. His statements have a half-life measured in microseconds. I’ve come to the conclusion that it is impossible to overstate what a complete idiot Trump is.

    He’s not playing eleven dimensional chess; he’s playing Candyland in a parallel universe.

  227. 227
    TenguPhule says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Coincidentally, that’s also Trump’s luggage combination.

  228. 228

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    didn’t it come out that the nuclear launch code was “1,2,3,4”?

    No, it’s 4-3-2-1…Liftoff!

  229. 229
    TenguPhule says:

    @TriassicSands:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that it is impossible to overstate what a complete idiot Trump is.

    Somewhere on the internets there is a statement that proves you wrong.

  230. 230

    @Kathleen: Or Republicans will find a way to generate energy from us, like the movie Matrix. Paulie R has an energy plan in his back pocket, it reduces deficit too.

  231. 231
    Peter says:

    @Major Major Major Major: My first thought was that it’s a ratings ploy, but she’s pretty straightforward. And she’ll look like an utter tool if it’s not legit. But we shall see…

  232. 232
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The pods are just waiting for you to fall asleep….then you won’t feel anything at all….ever again.

  233. 233
    Baud says:

    @Peter: Agree.

  234. 234
    Corner Stone says:

    There is no fucking way in hell TRMS has Trump’s actual, useful, tax returns. None.
    They would have Bri-Wi do a BREAKING NEWS special right fucking now if they had recent Trump tax returns.
    Whatever Rachel has will be weaksauce.

  235. 235
    WereBear says:

    The Winter Storm Warning in our area has been extended from 11 AM tomorrow to 8 PM tomorrow.

  236. 236
  237. 237
    Peter says:

    @JPL: No idea. But I’ve given up assuming that our idea of gold correlates with theirs.

    Won’t it be grand if it turns out that a humble microwaveable taco bowl brings down this whole administration?

  238. 238
  239. 239
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Yeah, I’m braced for Big Disappoint.

  240. 240
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Twitter says Rachel’s interviewing David Cay Johnston who’s been all over Trump’s bullshit since his campaign began. Maybe there is something to this. People who watch Rachel, keep us posted!

  241. 241
    J R in WV says:

    @Raoul:

    “…Not deeply a Democratic or Progressive health plan….”

    Just the most Democratic and Progressive health care plan to pass Congress since, em, um, ahhhh, 1963? or so? Something like that. The most Democratic and Progressive health care plan in ummm, 45 years or so? About that, anyways.

    People poor mouthing the best health care plan – the ONLY health care plan – in two generations need to get a grip. With some tuning up, aimed at improving coverage rather than aimed at breaking it and lowering taxes, it could be right up there with the best health care plans in the world.

    The Swiss have pretty good health care, with private health insurance, don’t they?

    So there!

  242. 242
    Baud says:

    Maybe Rachel thinks it’s April 1.

  243. 243
    JMG says:

    Apparently the tax returns are not Maddow’s but came to David Cay Johnston, former Times reporter who, like others of his ilk, has become kind of a free-lance radical since leaving the paper. He’s a serious guy. If he has something, it’s not nothing. That doesn’t mean it’s the page with “Received from V, Putin” on it, but I don’t think he’d push this out if it weren’t important in his mind, and he’s a tax expert.

  244. 244
    Peter says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: You have to be, really. It’s necessary for self-preservation these days. But WHOA IF TRUE

  245. 245
    Trentrunner says:

    @debbie: Chris Hayes just teased the Rachel story as having to do with “Donald J. Trump’s taxes.”

    So not Ivanka’s….

    Hmmm….

  246. 246
    efgoldman says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Romneycare covered abortions, didn’t it?.

    Mittster, like Tricksie Dicksie Nixie and the EPA, knew a veto-proof majority when he saw it.
    Leading from behind can be a very effective tactic

  247. 247
    Corner Stone says:

    “I am a wonk. I am an iiiii-aaaland.”
    /Simon & Garfunkel lyrics by ZEGS

  248. 248
    Hal says:

    Yeah, Hayes just said the Maddow show is about Trump’s taxes and people? There’s a countdown clock now on msnbc.

    Rachel should start the show with Rick Astley, then say “kidding”!

  249. 249
    debbie says:

    This is the Tweet. (Can’t copy on this iPad):

    https://twitter.com/davidcayj/status/841801318939398145

  250. 250
    Yarrow says:

    @Corner Stone: It’s not Trump‘s tax returns. It’s Trump tax returns. Could be Eric’s or something to do with one of his lesser known businesses that he sold fifteen years ago.

  251. 251
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    David Cay Johnston ‏Verified account @DavidCayJ 22m22 minutes ago

    On @maddow I’ll break a big story about Trump and his taxes – 9PM eastern via @DCReportMedia Ill be on @lawrence, too.

    219 replies 2,434 retweets 2,503 likes

  252. 252
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Doesn’t say which Trump.

    Doesn’t say which year(s).

    Doesn’t say whether federal or state.

    Honestly, I would love this to be a YUUUUGE story, but I’m mentally prepared for it to be a big nothingburger. That way, I won’t be disappointed, and if it’s anything more, I will be delightfully surprised.

  253. 253
    Corner Stone says:

    @JMG: IMO, I feel it will be pretty interesting. Just not the actual source material we have all been asking for. IOW, meh.

  254. 254
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @JMG:

    That doesn’t mean it’s the page with “Received from V, Putin” on it,

    chain of custody is an obvious questions. Then again realising a fake tax return with “Payments from V. Putin, for services to be rendered”, “Payment: hush money to underaged hookers” might just force Donny to relase the real thing.

  255. 255
    chek says:

    I’d read somewhere that the Trumpcare bill would save the government approximately $3 billion in Social Security outlays, and that’s due to an additional 30k dead people per year in the 50-64 age bracket, starting in 2018. Trump’s playing with fire here, seeing as how he essentially won the election by 80k votes (electoral college). He’s basically decided to kill off his base – if most of those 90k dead from 2018 – 2020 die in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc. there goes his margin.

  256. 256
    Trentrunner says:

    Okay, Rachel’s already walking it back. Tweeted it’s Trump 2005 1040 form.

    2005 is well before the worst Russia shit.

    Fuck that show.

  257. 257
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Peter:

    But WHOA IF TRUE

    Oh, absolutely, and of course I hope it is! I’m just tired of getting my hopes up only to be dashed.

  258. 258
    Corner Stone says:

    Ruh-roh. Chris Hayes show has dropped the countdown clock? Just a slip on their part?

  259. 259
    Origuy says:

    Could it be state tax returns? Trump files them in multiple states, and they may be easier to get.

  260. 260
    Baud says:

    @Trentrunner: Let’s see what’s in it. Still might have some Russia stuff.

  261. 261
    Corner Stone says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Then again realising a fake tax return with “Payments from V. Putin, for services to be rendered”, “Payment: hush money to underaged hookers” might just force Donny to relase the real thing.

    You mean the whole “pig fucker denial” strategy? I honestly don’t think Trump voters would care if he admitted he has fucked actual pigs. Live or dead.

  262. 262
    Trentrunner says:

    Yeah, but fuck her and her always overhyping her “scoops.”

    She always does this, and it’s always a nothingburger. Every time.

  263. 263
    WereBear says:

    Found the remote. Has a layer of dust on it. It’s been that long since we watched regular TV.

    And…

    Apparently only old sick people watch TV? Judging from the ads?

  264. 264
  265. 265
    rikyrah says:

    OK folks,
    Us common folk gotta have our own discipline when talking about the Healthcare nightmare.

    Whether blogs, tweets, Facebook or calling your Reps/Senators, never forget the following:

    1. Always call it TRUMPCARE
    2. Always bring up the 24 MILLION that will lose healthcare
    3. Always bring up that they’re losing healthcare so that the rich can get a taxcut
    4. Always call it an AGE TAX

    Put these sociopaths on the defensive.

  266. 266
    hovercraft says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    I don’t blame her, wasn’t there an older Indian man beaten up a couple of years ago, while walking around his sons neighborhood, in Atlanta maybe, he was left paralyzed, I think?

  267. 267
    Oldgold says:

    TRMS ratings are going the roof. She is not going to jeopardize this by splashing BS across the tubes to get a huge audience for one night.

  268. 268
    Corner Stone says:

    Just can’t do shit like this.

  269. 269
    Peter says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, me too. It sucks.

  270. 270
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Rachel Maddow MSNBC ‏Verified account @maddow 9m9 minutes ago

    What we’ve got is from 2005… the President’s 1040 form… details to come tonight 9PM ET, MSNBC.

    1,059 replies 5,352 retweets 5,701 likes

  271. 271

    Why do people seem to think a tax filing would show a fucking 1099 from the kremlin or something, anyway? I don’t know how exactly Russia hands you a suitcase full of cash but I also don’t think they handed Trump a suitcase full of cash.

  272. 272
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Josh Marshall Retweeted Rachel Maddow MSNBC
    2005 is legit, right around the time Trump plugged into the FSU money Bigly.
    Rachel Maddow MSNBCVerified account @ maddow
    What we’ve got is from 2005… the President’s 1040 form… details to come tonight 9PM ET, MSNBC.

  273. 273
    JPL says:

    @hovercraft: That was Alabama.. link

  274. 274
    WereBear says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Outside the statute of limitations?

  275. 275
    El Caganer says:

    @Roger Moore: I’m pretty sure the long pork/long pig comparison is about flavor rather than appearance. You really haven’t experienced fine dining until you’ve eaten a pure-HFCS-fed human.

  276. 276
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    getting somebody’s attention

    Josh Barro Retweeted Jennifer Ablan
    Huh. So they can get this stuff out quickly when they feel like it.
    Jennifer AblanVerified account @ jennablan
    14-Mar-2017 08:29:23 PM – WHITE HOUSE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO MSNBC THAT TRUMP PAID $38 MILLION IN TAXES ON INCOME OF $150 MILLION

    watergate wasn’t built in a day…

  277. 277
    J R in WV says:

    @Shell:

    “Did I read Cole’s Twitter feed aright? Steve is missing again?”

    He’s back already, less than 24 hours. The guy’s a cat, for crying out loud!! He needs to cat around late at night, once in a while.

    John, I worry about our cats too. But they are cats… they do need to be cats.

    Love ’em while you got ’em.

    Glad he’s home!

  278. 278

    @hovercraft: That was a year ago in Tennessee or something.

  279. 279
  280. 280
    Trentrunner says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wasn’t Josh being sarcastic with the FSU comment? Florida State University?

  281. 281
    hovercraft says:

    @Corner Stone:
    If I lift my no cable except Joy boycott and this is a big nothingburger, I will be pissed. I’ll give her the A block, but this better be the real deal, not some copy of his 1979 tax return that tells us nothing relevant to what he’s been doing the last few years.

  282. 282
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: She already said it was the 2005 return. We’ll see if it has anything juicy.

  283. 283
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Trentrunner: Former Soviet Union? no idea, I don’t follow him regularly enough

  284. 284
    Corner Stone says:

    @hovercraft: Protect your born again weergin eyeballs! This is going to be interesting but nothing more useful than the segment she did when Russian billionaires bought shit from Trump for more blah blah than it was blah blahed at the time.

  285. 285
    lamh36 says:

    Of course he is…

    @ABCPolitics
    Pres. Trump has been drawing a salary, despite pledging not to; WH says he plans to donate the money to charity http://abcn.ws/2mpr0s0

  286. 286
    J R in WV says:

    @debbie:

    Hey,

    Where you say “…He’s towing the party line… ” towing means pulling. What you mean to say is probably toeing the line, as in standing in line straight with your toes on that line the CO drew on the ground… those Marines are toeing the line. Mitch is toeing the Republican line.

    “He’s toeing the party line…”

    No offense! I could be wrong… what you meant… who knows, right?

  287. 287
    lamh36 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: but what happened to the audit…guess it’s done…huh…

  288. 288
    Peter says:

    I just realized that I can’t watch her live (I haven’t had cable for a decade and also I am a idiot). Don’t tell me who wins…

  289. 289
    lamh36 says:

    Ok…this WH response is overkill…even before knowing it was from 2005..

    https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/841811274174500866

  290. 290
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: A shaman will tell Peter Thiel that the gray hair of old people holds the secrets of eternal youth, so we olds (not we meaning you olds because you are not an old so am employing rhetorical you here) will be forced into homes for the demographically irrelevant so our gray hairs can be harvested until they’re gone then we’re sent to the Soylent Center for final disposition. The End. (At least we will be served all you can eat doughnut holes).

  291. 291
    hovercraft says:

    @Baud: @Corner Stone:
    Okay I’m going in, her meandering gets annoying fast so not sure how long I’ll last, but there’s nothing else on, so I’ll bite.

  292. 292
    Shana says:

    @p.a.: We only got about 2 inches here in NoVA, but it was heavy as hell. Hubby was home for a change but working while I went out to start shoveling our 75′ driveway. I was about 1/4 done when a couple of young guys came by and said they’d finish for $60. I took them up on the offer and they did a terrific job including the big flat area at the top of the drive, sidewalk leading to the front door and front stoop.

    It let me go inside to make short ribs and brussels sprouts for dinner along with a lovely Chimney Rock cabernet. Life is good chez Singerman.

  293. 293
    Corner Stone says:

    I am as tired of hearing from Elizabeth Warren as I am from hearing about the Senator from an old movie script.

  294. 294
  295. 295
    lamh36 says:

    With the WH response saying Trump earned $150million…that far shy of being a billionaire…and ya know it will stick in his craw folks knowing that…

  296. 296
    Baud says:

    @Corner Stone: She looks less healthy.

  297. 297
    Corner Stone says:

    @hovercraft: No! NO! NOOOOOO!!!!!

  298. 298
    JPL says:

    @Peter: I can help you with that
    http://www.livenewschat.eu/politics/

    I’m not going to watch because one of my guilty pleasures is This Is Us.

  299. 299
    Baud says:

    @lamh36: Income vs wealth.

  300. 300

    @Corner Stone: She reminds me of my 8th grade math teacher. Who was a good teacher but was extremely tiresome and boring.

  301. 301
    liberal says:

    @Mike J: yeah, wife just told me. What do they say…the returns, I mean…

  302. 302
    amk says:

    twitler’s tax returns would have mattered before nov ’16.

    His and his family’s current corruption are far more insidious and worth exposing.

  303. 303
    Baud says:

    Uh oh. Warren isn’t endorsing single payer. She’ll get tweets.

  304. 304
    mike in dc says:

    How much he made, how much he paid in taxes: not that interesting.
    Who paid him what, who he owes money to: way more important.

  305. 305
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud: Anyone who expects single payer this side of a Civil War is out of their mind.

  306. 306
    TenguPhule says:

    @chek: That’s only a problem when you presume he cares about holding a free and fair election ever again. Killing off the weak and vulnerable is the game plan now.

  307. 307
    debbie says:

    @J R in WV:

    Which is why I generally avoid that expression.

  308. 308
    MomSense says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’m sorry. It’s scary right now. My Indian friends are afraid to have their family members visit, too.

  309. 309
    debbie says:

    @mike in dc:

    Also, what and how much he wrote off to get down to that 150 million.

  310. 310
    Peter says:

    @JPL: Thanks. Is it always so slow? Connecting…………..

  311. 311
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    Yeah, to have an income of $150 million you need to own something like a billion, depending on where the money came from.

    Maybe it was just a really good year for his specialty? Money laundering? Stealing from his casinos? Had a great night at Monte Carlo?

    Or maybe he just ran out of tax deductions that year…

    Or this isn’t a real return at all? Just a constructed leak?

  312. 312
    efgoldman says:

    @chek:

    He’s basically decided to kill off his base

    He hasn’t “decided” anything. He has no more idea of the real OR political consequences than Cole’s pets have of neurosurgery.

  313. 313
    efgoldman says:

    @Shana:

    We only got about 2 inches here in NoVA

    Kid said it was total ice-over in Arlington, re-freezing overnite.

  314. 314
    efgoldman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I am as tired of hearing from Elizabeth Warren as I am from hearing about the Senator from an old movie script.

    Better her than the assholes you elected.

  315. 315

    @MomSense: Sikhs have been through so much. My friend’s family were refugees from Pakistan. She is from Delhi. There was Operation Blue Star, then Rajiv Gandhi’s goons went after the capital’s Sikhs after Indira Gandhi’s assassination. And now this.

  316. 316
    TriassicSands says:

    @Baud:

    Sorry, Baud, I didn’t finish the comment above, I had to do some errands.

    I agree that Trump has praised the House plan, but he’s an idiot and when he started saying how great it was he probably had no idea what was even in the bill. The lesson with Trump is that nothing he says means anything. It not only can change, it will change because it’s not rooted in any core beliefs.

    They could have handed Trump a bill that called for executing everyone on Medicaid and he would have gushed over what a great plan it was and how it would provide “care” (yeah, a lethal injection) for everyone and it would be cheaper and blah, blah, blah.

    Trump’s profound idiocy makes it almost impossible for journalists to cover him because he’s always changing what he says and he’s utterly unconcerned by charges of flip-flops or hypocrisy. He simply denies ever saying what the video/audio clips prove he said or he claims the reporters are lying and it never stops.

    So, yes, you were right, Trump has been praising the Ryan plan. My initial comment was meant to point out that if you went back to the campaign and looked at what Trump said he wanted and what he promised, the only plan that would have met his criteria would be some form of universal plan that eliminated for-profit insurance companies and employer-based insurance.

    The man’s an idiot. I can’t say or stress that enough.

  317. 317
    TriassicSands says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I have no idea what you mean. I stated an opinion and not a fact, so proving my opinion wrong is not meaningful. Of course I could be wrong, but from the evidence I have and continue to gather every day, I stand by my conclusion.

    If what you mean is that somewhere on the Internet there is a statement that proves and disproves everything…I won’t argue with that.

  318. 318

    @dm: I have no problem with trying understand why someone did not vote but I am tired of the endless repetition of T voters and their concerns regarding economic anxiety. Besides, don’t let me stop you from expressing your opinion, after all I is just another kitteh on the intertoobz.

  319. 319
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Raoul: He needs to be turned into turtle soup, and fed to…I don’t know, someone who needs to be fed rancid turtle soup.

Comments are closed.