Saturday Open Thread: Beginning to Catch On, At Last?

Your average GOP voter (as seen by bitter coastal elitists) begins to suspect it’s all a cruel trick…

122 replies
  1. 1
    lollipopguild says:

    Maybe, just maybe REALITY starts to creep in on little cats feet. Not holding my breath.

  2. 2
    Trentrunner says:

    Pretty sure Trump will blame this on “We had to fix Obamacare, and all these new problems are because of Obamacare.”

    GOP will megaphone it, media will bothsides it.

    And (at least) 62 million people will accept it.

    I truly don’t think we’ve plumbed how truly fucked we are.

  3. 3
    JMG says:

    @Trentrunner: Not sure that’d work. Trump got number of voters on his side by projecting “I’m the Boss.” Well, if things suck, those folks are likely to figure it’s up to the Boss to fix things.

  4. 4
    Calouste says:

    Looks like Russia is trying to interfere indirectly in the Dutch elections by having friend-of-Vlad Erdogan cause a diplomatic incident that friend-of-Vlad Wilders can exploit. The Dutch diplomatic missions in Turkey have now been closed by the Turks.

  5. 5
    efgoldman says:


    just maybe REALITY starts to creep in on little cats feet.

    re-OLL-ee-tee? Wott eet eez?

  6. 6
    MattF says:

    So, yes, every single thing Trump has said about healthcare has been a lie.

  7. 7
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I’m sure it will only dawn on the Drumpfenproles when they see the actual statement from the insurance company, even though it will have been all over the media for months prior that it’s going to happen.

  8. 8
    James Powell says:


    I agree. They are so wrapped up in his cult, in his promises to hurt the people they hate, they cannot change without going through a major identity crisis.

  9. 9
    Jeffro says:

    Catherine Rampell noted that the whole purpose of this abominable Ryancare bill is not just to attempt to cut those taxes on the wealthy; it’s to be able to make huge tax cuts for the rich in general down the road.

    If I understand her correctly, the idea is to move the ‘revenue baseline’ down quite a bit now, so that when the Rs propose huge tax cuts for the rich later, they can still use reconciliation as – technically speaking – they would not be impacting the budget. Or something like that.

    Either way, the Randians will not be satisfied until rich people’s taxes are lowered to zero, regardless of what it does to their fellow citizens. Makes Ryan’s misunderstanding of/antipathy towards the very CONCEPT of “insurance” quite understandable…

  10. 10
    NR says:

    Good article from Shaun King about the state of the Democratic party here: The Democratic Party seems to have no earthly idea why it is so damn unpopular

    In other words, the Democratic Party has a favorability rating 11 points lower than Pence, nine points lower than Trump, and even one point lower than the GOP.

    Their unfavorable rating is 17 points worse than Pence, five points worse than Trump, and four points worse than the GOP.

    Donald Trump is probably the least popular president ever at this point in his term, and the Democratic party is even more unpopular than he is. And so far, the party’s leaders don’t seem to get it.

    The Democratic Party is deeply unpopular – period. It’s a fact. Don’t look away. Don’t call me a Bernie Bro. It’s a problem that must be seriously addressed. Not a day goes by when I don’t have people reach out to me and ask if it would be worth it to start a credible alternative to what the Democrats are offering. Most people, I believe, would also be open to a brand new way of business for the Democratic Party, but core leaders seem hell bent on doing the same old crap.

    When good people who are frustrated with the Democratic Party express their genuine concerns, I see them being told to shut up and unify. “Now is not the time for public complaints,” they are told. “We must all work together.”

    But what this apparently means to the people who are calling for unity is getting behind the corporate, suit and tie, lobbyist-driven agenda of the establishment. But let me break it to you – the establishment has almost no grassroots momentum. Virtually every progressive grassroots movement in America right now is fueled by people outside of the Democratic Party establishment and this is a huge reason why the party is so outrageously unpopular.

    Change is desperately needed.

  11. 11
    greennotGreen says:

    This being an open thread, I’d like to poll any millennials among us (I realize we skew older than that) or perhaps parents of millennials can ask their kids about this.

    My 26yo niece lives with my 93yo mother while the niece attends school. In return for food, lodging, and some walking around money, she’s supposed to help take care of my mother. Last night my niece went out with two friends (since moving here a few months ago she’s collected quite a few friends from online apps.) She rode with another young woman, and the club they went to was in a nearby town. The male friend left early, but when my niece got ready to go, her female friend was nowhere to be found. She had gone home with a guy, wouldn’t answer her phone, and my niece’s car was behind the locked gates at the female “friend’s” gated community. She called another friend who picked her up, let her spend the night at his apartment, and then drove her to pick up her car in the morning when the absent female finally responded to a text.

    My niece says this is no big deal, this is just what millennials do. Her mother and I think this a BFD and her “friend” is anything but. I fear my niece is so desperate for approval from her peers that she will accept any abuse from “friends.” Comments, people who have more contact with that age group than I do?

    P.S. Obviously, while she was out all night, she was not caring for my mother.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Unfortunately, we’re back to cognitive dissonance territory. Social forces determine what are ‘facts’ and what are not facts.

  13. 13
    lollipopguild says:

    @efgoldman: Reality is 20-30 million people losing their health insurance and 70% of them voted for trump. The really dumb ones will never wake up because they are trump cult worshipers but millions of them are going to be losing not winning and its going to hurt right away.

  14. 14
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @NR: Your concern is noted. Now fuck off.

  15. 15
    D58826 says:

    Ok now maybe my tinfoil hate is on to tight.

    Two news stories that didn’t get a lot of attention:
    1. When asked about the almost 600 open positions that require senate confirmation, Trump said maybe he won’t fill them by design.
    2. Propublica listed 400+ folks who are part of the transition landing teams that are still serving in the agencies until permanent replacements are named.

    Can Trump just leave those folks in place running the agencies w/o any Senate confirmation? Seems like a win-win for him. He can fill the slots with any old incompetent, relative, etc that he wants and he avoids the embarrassing Senate hearings if he made these formal appointments.

    Seems like a good way to destroy the agencies from within and not have a lot of press coverage. After all when does the media look into the activities a bureaucrat 4 levels down from the top.

  16. 16
    efgoldman says:


    every single thing Trump has said about healthcare has been a lie.

    Everything he says about anything is a lie.
    If he says today is Saturday, check your calendar.

  17. 17
    marknc says:

    @JMG: You really don’t understand stupid. When reality meets stupid, stupid wins.

  18. 18
    Ruviana says:

    @D58826: Excellent typo by the way.

  19. 19
    lollipopguild says:

    @greennotGreen: My daughter who is 30 has several friends who are disfunctial in the same sort of way. Having dealt with the public for 39 years in my job there are plenty of people in all age groups who are low to non functioning. Look at all the people who willingly and happily voted for trump.

  20. 20
    efgoldman says:


    maybe my tinfoil hate is on to tight.

    Great typo! Leave it alone.
    As Adam has pointed out, yes he can. Just another one of those pesky norms that Republiklowns swat away like annoying gnats.
    There’s a question whether it’s malice or incompetence (or likely, some combination) but in the end, it doesn’t matter.

  21. 21
    MattF says:

    @D58826: I’m guessing we’re going to have to get a Katrina-level disaster before the incompetence of Trumpite cronies and sons-in-law becomes obvious.

  22. 22
    gene108 says:


    Good luck starting a third party.

  23. 23
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @greennotGreen: I’m an older millennial (1982), but this doesn’t seem too out of line to me. Certainly not abuse. A little annoying and her friend definitely owes her brunch or equivalent. I will say that if my parents/older relatives were hectoring me about my friends at 26 is be a lot more pissed off with them for infantilizing me than with my friends, so maybe back off and trust that your adult niece can make her own decisions about the people in her life.

    I get your worries about your mom, but that’s a different story all together and you conflating it with your niece’s choice in friends is disingenuous. If you’re worried about your niece being home every night (which. Wow. She’s 26. That’s probably not going to happen naturally.) You should talk with her about that, only that, and make it part off the deal explicitly. Don’t link that to her friends and don’t argue she shouldn’t hang out with them because you don’t like how they party. They’re 26 not 16.

  24. 24
    ruemara says:

    I can guarantee you this. They are only terrified because it’s coming for them first. And I, for one, hope it catches them. I hope they get what they’ve earned in ill will. The lack of compassion they have for anyone else is breathtaking.

  25. 25
    Ohio Mom says:

    @greennotGreen: I am too old to answer your question, just wanted to say I am reminded how grateful I am that no one in my family ever found about about all the stupid things I did in my early adulthood.

    Here’s hoping your niece figures things out.

  26. 26
    efgoldman says:


    Good luck starting a third party.

    I’m pretty sure s/he thinks whining about it is sufficient effort.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Ruviana: Good band name.

  28. 28
    hovercraft says:

    While I’m glad they are finally beginning to understand that they are the people they hate, moochers living off the government, it would have been great if over the last 7 years while the republicans drummed the lies into their heads the media had pushed back, democrats were given short shrift, the opposition was played up and sensationalized. Obamacares’ benefits always affected way more people than just Medicaid recipients and the people on the exchanges. I doubt even this realization will remove the scales from their eyes. This will be an instance where their savior is misguided and just like them didn’t understand the ACA, so as long as he “fixes” this, they’ll still love him.
    The fact that the media covered and interviewed Teahadists screaming “keep government hands off our Medicare” and did not make a concerted effort to explain to the morans that Medicare is the fucking government in criminal, mentioning it in passing while replaying misinformation over and over again is a disservice to everyone. That Twitler and the GOP are liars is not news, the fact that it took Twitler’s constant lies for the media to call the GOP out is pathetic. The media are as to blame for this as the GOP, bothsiderism is going to be the death of us. I feel like everytime the media does it’s job, they want a fucking cookie. Fuck em.

  29. 29
    gene108 says:

    Though a lot of groups seem opposed to Trumpcare, there seems to be a lack of hell being raised relative to what was experienced during the run-up to the PPACA or Bill Clinton’s healthcare reform.

    Basically, outside of theAARP, no one is running balls to the wall ads opposing it. They are just expressing concern.

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:


    I am not a Millennial and don’t have Millennial kids (or any kids), but let me tell you an illustrative story from my college days:

    I went out to a club with two female friends. They met a couple of guys and said they would get home with them. I was tired and had to work the next day, but I still had a couple of rounds of, “Are you sure? Really sure?” My BFF said she was sure, so I went home.

    A few hours later, I get woken up by a phone call from my BFF brightly informing me that she was getting a ride home from one of the guys because the other friend had abandoned her, so she was calling to tell me that she would be back shortly. I was all, “Uh, do you need me to come get you?” She said no, and the call was pretty clearly to put the guy on notice that someone was expecting her home soon so he didn’t try any funny business. (He didn’t — he was disappointed but resigned.)

    Over 20 years later, I’m still pissed about this, because when you go out with a group of girlfriends, you DO NOT abandon any of them.

    Your niece’s friends suck. She needs new ones.

  31. 31
    smintheus says:

    Those are just the costs shifted to the poor / old at the beginning of the implementation of TrumpCare. But that’s only the first step in what’s meant to be a transformative process. The endpoint is a much bigger deal, and will probably arrive quickly by design. The GOP bill very obviously is meant to cause a death spiral in the ACA exchanges.

    Commentators wondered when the bill was released what possible goal(s) it was directed at. The answer was clear from the main outcomes: (1) cut taxes on rich, causing (2) death spirals and (3) effectively nullifying the ACA in a way the GOP could not have done simply by passing a bill to eliminate it. Oh, and the ACA’s collapse by death spiral can and will be blamed on the original law.

  32. 32
    Gindy51 says:

    @greennotGreen: Millennials are not the only ones who do this. I had this happen to me in the 80’s when I was your daughter’s age (it isn’t a generational thing it is an age thing). It isn’t unusual for any generation or person when they meet someone they want to fuck and really don’t care all that much about who they came with.
    Your daughter needs new friends. The one she talks abut is a shitty friend and should be shunned. Better to be alone than treated like shit. That’s what my millennial daughter says. life is too damned short to put up with shit heads. (her words)

  33. 33
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    Oh hey exciting news! Mr Trowel and i have been given dates for our Australian citizenship tests. We watched the informational youtube vid last night and only spotted 3 appallingly colonialist/racist ideas we’re supposed to regurgitate

  34. 34
    MattF says:

    @gene108: AARP has been sending me mail for the past… what, fifteen years? Maybe I should join.

  35. 35
    greennotGreen says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: Thanks for the input. Wow, millennials are certainly tolerant of some shitty behavior. However, niece, not daughter, and she is being paid to look after my mother. That being said, I don’t think her being dumped by her “friend” is her fault, and therefore it wasn’t her fault she wasn’t able to check on my mother.

    I guess I will just counsel her not to depend on these “friends” for transportation.

  36. 36
    JPL says:

    @greennotGreen: The smart choice would have been uber for the ride home to your mom’s, and uber in the morning to pick up her car. Someone needs to suggest that to her. She might learn to put some money aside for that purpose.

  37. 37
    Mnemosyne says:


    You’re probably right that gnG can’t tell her niece that her friends suck. However, IMO, her friends suck. You don’t abandon someone without transportation.

  38. 38
    Hal says:


    Good luck starting a third party.

    But seriously, why don’t Bernie Bros just start their own fucking party? Nothing is stopping them, but I guess purity concern trolling is too appealing.

    Also, I like King, but this piece is based on a single Suffolk poll 6-7 weeks into a Trump presidency. Never mind everyone but Pence is net unfavorable, let’s literally shit ourselves because the GOP is 1 point more popular than the Democratic party in this one fucking poll.

    Start your own party and go from there or shut the fuck up. Jesus.

  39. 39
    MattF says:

    @greennotGreen: What matters is, if people lie to you. Took me quite a while to learn that one should not take it personally– some people just lie a lot, and you have to figure out who they are.

  40. 40
    Ruckus says:

    Once again I agree with you 100%

  41. 41
    D58826 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Same here, old codger with no kids but it is a funny definition of ‘friend’

  42. 42
    MattF says:

    @MattF: And, as my old man used to say, enjoy keeping away from them.

  43. 43
    mike in dc says:


    There’s an almost complete lack of specific critiques and/or specific recommendations in that article. I see vague references to “corporate…lobbyists”
    and a callback to DWS and the primaries, and not much else. If you’re going to come at the establishment, it’s good to have a specific set of critiques and demands.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    Baud says:


    But seriously, why don’t Bernie Bros just start their own fucking party?

    They might win and then they’d have to govern.

    ETA: also, would reveal how white they really are, certain exceptions notwithstanding.

  46. 46
    greennotGreen says:

    Okay, two more opinions at odds with The Mighty Trowel. I will add that my niece has had friends since she was little who haven’t treated her very well. (Best friend through junior high was famous for comments like, “Too bad you’re not as smart as I am.” I think my niece was just a couple of places behind her in school rank.) Must be a self-esteem thing. But yes, I guess she’s just going to have to figure this out on her own. I’d just prefer she figure it out before we find her dead in a ditch somewhere.

  47. 47
    Kirk says:

    @Hal: You missed something interesting that also makes the poll questionable, found by looking through the cross-tabs.

    The independents who form a bit over 1/3 of the voters sorta like Trump, hate Hillary, like Pence, like Republicans, hate Democrats.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:


    I guess I will just counsel her not to depend on these “friends” for transportation.

    That’s probably the most you can do at her age. She doesn’t have to stop being friends with these people, but she needs to remember that they’re not reliable and watch out for number one.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Aimai says:

    @Mnemosyne: its super creepy and weird given how important the buddy system is for women who are out clubbing.

  51. 51
    ruemara says:

    @Hal: They have the green party. I was a member back in 1999. They’re doing less now than they did then. Go take them over and make them viable.

    Green, I’m no millennial but I will say your daughter’s friend sucks. And, it was a mistake, not a pattern. As a parent, you have every right to say her friend sucks for what she did. Chasing dick doesn’t give her a right to abandon a friend. It’s callous, rude and could have meant some harm to your daughter. Be blunt about that aspect of it. That being said, of course she wasn’t taking care of mom, but it wasn’t intentional. if all are well, then make sure your daughter knows she may want to ensure if she goes out with that friend, that she makes sure she has an alt plan for getting back home.

  52. 52
    Corner Stone says:

    @greennotGreen: If you’re expecting a 26 year old to take care of your mother night in and night out, I would suggest the decision making failure does not lie with your niece.

  53. 53
    WereBear says:

    @lollipopguild: I used to think it showed how sturdy our system was that even an overwhelming number of people who are clearly incompetent couldn’t bring it down.

    Now, I wonder…

  54. 54
    Corner Stone says:

    @NR: Come on, man. This is a garbage critique.

  55. 55
    Chet Murthy says:


    Change is desperately needed.

    Well now, you -do- have a model for how to effect this change, don’t you? How did the Rs do it? Did they cry a lot? Did they rend their garments at RINO Bush (or whoever)? No, They. Did. Not. They got themselves elected to the low-level party apparatus, and systematically bit-by-bit took that party over. To the point where today, they no longer need to even pretend to kowtow to the old-skool R party dogmas. [ok, that last sentence is a -bit- of an exaggeration, but still somewhat true.]

    Moral of the story: stop crying about the Dem party, and get busy taking it over, eh? ‘cos y’know, crying won’t get you anything but the sarcasm you’re already getting.

  56. 56
    Baud says:

    @Chet Murthy:

    get busy taking it over, eh?

    Right. The current situation couldn’t be better for them if they have the chops.

  57. 57
    efgoldman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    This is a garbage critique.

    Hey, I’ll critique garbage if I want to; this is an open thread.

  58. 58
    Baud says:

    @WereBear: It’s the ultimate test.

  59. 59
    Corner Stone says:

    @greennotGreen: Several years ago when I was married my wife went out with a married neighbor lady in her early 40’s, ostensibly to meet a friend of the lady and also a cousin of my wife. At some point the neighbor lady left to go home with two young 20 something males, leaving my wife to get a ride home from her cousin. Whatever happened in neighbor lady’s decision making process traumatized my wife to the point where she said nothing to me about it until the neighbor husband was banging on my door at 4:00AM asking me where his wife was.

  60. 60
    WereBear says:

    The complacent assumption that all the belt-tightening, bootstrap-pulling, and benefit-cutting will be inflicted on Others is behind this.

    The real trick is how they manage to believe themselves to be superior while sneering at anyone who improves themselves. Their minds must be compartmented like a silverware drawer liner.

  61. 61
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Mnemosyne: generally i agree. That said there are a lot of people i refer to as friends to older family members because it’s easier than trying to explain what my actual often situational and not very close relationship with them is.

    I’m partnered and settled now but before i was i definitely had ‘friends’ who were really ‘people i could go out with when i wanted to get laid and didn’t want to have to stay with the people i came with’ – i wouldn’t be enormously surprised if this were the situation and niece just didn’t end up pulling that night.

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne says:

    So, as I mentioned in the other thread, I managed to trip and wrench my bad knee in a particularly Cole-like maneuver this morning. If I wanted to buy some compression leggings at the last minute, would I be better off at a sporting goods store or at Target?

  63. 63
    Chet Murthy says:


    Right. The current situation couldn’t be better for them if they have the chops.

    As a firm believer in steeply progressive taxation, *indeed*, this is the time to re-infect the Dem party with this meme. Best time is when the party is out-of-power, and their base is moving left.

  64. 64
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Mnemosyne: why not just get a compression knee brace – eg from cvs – and wear it under leggings you already own?

  65. 65
    Mnemosyne says:


    Well, sure, but part of being a friend in that situation is making sure the other people can get home if they don’t have the same luck. And aren’t locked out of the place where they parked their car because only you have the key.

    It was the transportation situation that made the other girl a really crappy friend, not necessarily going off to get laid. At a minimum, have the other person park their car outside of your gated community so they can Uber back to it.

  66. 66
    Cacti says:

    The deplorables need to get kicked in the teeth repeatedly by the policy changes they voted for.

    Old and voted for Trump? Going to see your premiums double?

    Sucks to be you.

  67. 67
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m hoping to find some slightly lighter-colored leggings since I’m headed off to Florida and all of my leggings seem to be black. But that’s what I’ll do if I have to.

  68. 68
    Goku says:

    @Chet Murthy: Don’t bother Jake, it’s NR. The troll who’s always short on solutions and long on critiques, often pessimistic ones that offer no good alternatives.

    He’ll be quick to tell you he voted for HRC, but then complain about her campaign (the same states she lost in the Midwest were lost by progressives like Russ Feingold, so I don’the know what difference her spending more time in those states would have made).

  69. 69
    Goku says:

    @Mnemosyne: Probably Target. Big box store and all that.

  70. 70
    Cacti says:


    Don’t bother Jake, it’s NR. The troll who’s always short on solutions and long on critiques, often pessimistic ones that offer no good alternatives.

    It’s a Republican that cosplays as an aggrieved Bernie bro.

  71. 71
    D58826 says:


    Their minds must be compartmented like a silverware drawer liner.

    Yep like the coal miner who complained that Obama/Hillary were responsible for his mine closing, when it actually closed in 1987! Obama/Hillary really had that time travel thing down pat I guess

  72. 72
    Starfish says:

    @greennotGreen: I don’t know many Millenials, but my younger sister is one of the older Millenials and experiences some of this. They were all poorly-socialized in the age of all this online crap, and they have very few friends who are rock solid and will be there for them when they need them.

  73. 73
    Chet Murthy says:


    It’s a Republican that cosplays as an aggrieved Bernie bro.

    The ones that aren’t Rs are Gamergaters and MGTOWs, yes? Oh but I repeat you twice! HA!

  74. 74
    Mandarama says:

    Since it’s an open thread…any fellow Nashville BJers planning to protest Cheeto Benito blighting our fair city on Wednesday? I’d love to meet up.

    Not sure why he’s visiting us considering we turned out 15K for the Women’s March. And at Municipal Auditorium…my husband asked if there’d be a wrestlin’ match afterwards.

  75. 75
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Starfish: I don’t know, booze and hormones predate the internet. Take the nonagenarian grandmother out of the equation and this sounds like pretty typical twenty-something behavior

  76. 76
    Corner Stone says:


    They were all poorly-socialized in the age of all this online crap, and they have very few friends who are rock solid and will be there for them when they need them.

    IMO, this is a story as old as time. It’s not a yoots or dreaded millennial failing.

  77. 77
    JPL says:

    Today a canvasser for Jon Ossoff stopped by. I’m pretty sure he had a targeted list, since he was parked outside my house. My elation was short lived, since another democrat called to invite me to a meet and greet for another democrat running. If we have any chance at the sixth district, the other democrats running should drop out, and support Ossoff. Because of the bigoted statements my mayor made, we now have a chance. Ossoff got a lot of good press.

  78. 78
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Starfish: i call bullshit. Bullshit.also all gen x are selfish and apathetic, al baby boomers are wasteful and obsessed with the politics of their youth and the greatest generation weren’t. Can we please lose (a) these words stories we tell about arbitrary generational groupings and (b) that nastily condescending tone that so many use about the under 35s who came of age amid the wars and financial crises convened by their parents but were supposed to not let those have an impact on them?

  79. 79
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    if only there were some Republican Senators or retired cabinet-level types who were universally admired and respected voices and elder statesmen on foreign policy and all that shit who could put their feet down on shit like this

    (Seriously, I thought I held Colin Powell in minimum high regard, but apparently I’ve been overestimating him, at least McCain and Graham have the realpolitik if shameful excuse of (Graham) being primaried– what’s gonna happen to St Colin if he starts speaking out?)
    ETA: forgot the tweet

    Edward-Isaac Dovere‏Verified account
    @ IsaacDovere
    Happening now at unsecured Trump golf course, per pool report: POTUS having “‘part of a cabinet mtg’ to discuss the military & other things”

  80. 80
  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Seriously, I thought I held Colin Powell in minimum high regard

    Good Fucking Christ. Why?

  82. 82
    JPL says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Powell is seventy-nine. When he was thinking of running for office years ago, the nice repubs leaked info that his wife was taking medication for depression. Who knows what else they will do. Repubs kill their own.

  83. 83
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    booze and hormones predate the internet

    And, boy, am I glad that my primary booze-and-hormone years also predate the internet (and a video recorder in everybody’s pocket.)

  84. 84
    bystander says:

    I just heard Beth Fouhy on MSNBC say that Trump’s tweets have been much more “professional” this week.

    Where’s a meteor when you need one?

  85. 85

    @greennotGreen: Seconding everybody else that this isn’t a generational thing. I’m 31, and I know plenty of people who would’ve pulled stuff like that when they were 26 (maybe I did too, can’t recall) who would now never dream of it, and I know plenty of folks who were honor roll teenagers when I was 26 who are young adults now and pulling that kind of shit. As for this:

    P.S. Obviously, while she was out all night, she was not caring for my mother.

    That’s also not a generational thing, but my guess would be that you haven’t established clear expectations around it, which I urge you to do.

    ETA: @Starfish:

    They were all poorly-socialized in the age of all this online crap, and they have very few friends who are rock solid and will be there for them when they need them.

    Removed the part I deleted and you just described the human condition, at least since the industrial revolution.

  86. 86
    Starfish says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: I am not that much older than they are. I hang out with them and think some of them are doing amazing things. I just find their social norms to be odd.

  87. 87
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m with TMT — I think this is fairly common early 20s behavior, not something specific to Millennials. Hence my story above from 20 years ago about a similar situation.

    Oh, and we never went out with that person again without having a backup plan, because we now knew that she was not reliable.

  88. 88
    Suzanne says:

    So I volunteered to be a Precinct committeeperson. First meeting is Monday.

    Right now I am at the Ostrich Festival. This is so damn Real Murika that I want to leave. The racing ostriches are funny, though.

  89. 89
    efgoldman says:


    I managed to trip and wrench my bad knee in a particularly Cole-like maneuver this morning.

    You can rent a hoveround at the Mouse Place. Used to be five bux, probably more, now.
    It gets you to the front of all the lines.

  90. 90
    SFAW says:

    Well, nice to see that Native Russian has derailed yet another thread, the rubles keep a-rolling in. (Speaking as one who has taken Native Russian’s bait more than a couple of times.)

    Be that as it may: Atul Gawande is pretty bright, even for a furriner (unless Brooklyn has been admitted to the Union recently), but I call bullshit on his chart: “Conservative Thinkers”? There are fewer of them than there are instances of Shitgibbon intentionally telling the truth, or of the number of times Bloody Billy Kristol has been right.

  91. 91
    JPL says:

    @bystander: Someone took his phone. Poor baby is on an extended time out.
    President Bannon must have been so disappointed in him. SAD

  92. 92
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    That’s also not a generational thing, but my guess would be that you haven’t established clear expectations around it, which I urge you to do.

    Also, this. Since she is a 26-year-old adult, forbidding her from staying out all night is not in the cards, but it might not be a bad idea to have a system set up so there’s someone she can call to cover for her if she wants to go out for a bit. Expecting anyone of any age to stay home 24/7 to care for an elderly relative is expecting too much of them.

    (To be clear, I don’t think this is what gnG’s family really expects, but I do think the niece needs to know that she can call other family members if something comes up and expect them not to be all judgy.)

  93. 93
    ruemara says:

    @Mnemosyne: sporting goods but Target does have wrapping tape for cheaps

  94. 94
    Starfish says:

    @Mnemosyne: After reading everyone’s comments, I have to admit that yes, everyone had that person who was completely unreliable, and sometimes it took a long time for that lesson about them being unreliable sunk in.

  95. 95
    WereBear says:

    @greennotGreen: She might develop skills in “hiring and firing” friends. It has many practical sides, too; a higher class of friend means meeting a higher class of potential dates, too.

  96. 96
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @greennotGreen: My daughters are mid to late 30’s and my granddaughter is 18 so not precisely the same but I do have some thoughts from experience.
    First, inform the niece that if she will be out all night – and she will sometimes, call it “very late” if that’s easier- she must arrange for someone to check on your Mom. Second, do not assume that she has necessarily told you all the details about of the evening and try not to judge her too harshly for that. After all, you don’t want the details of her romantic escapades, do you? Or hear about how much she might have had to drink? Third, she gets to pick her friends. If you don’t approve your only actual option is to discontinue the minding grandma arrangement which may or may not be better or even possible for you, her and grandma. Lecturing her about her friends will not get you the result you want. Yes, if that is the whole story they do seem like crappy friends but not your call. You might also tell her that she should drive when she goes out so she can get back in case your Mom calls her in an emergency.

  97. 97
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @NR: Instead of saying fatuous passive-voice things like “Change is desperately needed,” maybe you could, for once in your sorry life, suggest what kind of change you have in mind and what, exactly, you personally plan to do to bring said change about.

  98. 98
    patrick II says:

    I assume that was a doggie treat, and I thought even though the dog couldn’t see where it went it would smell it. But even the sense of smell doesn’t seem to work when performing magic for a dog or discussing Trump with some Republicans.

  99. 99
    debbie says:


    Medical pharmacy or CVS.

    ETA: CVS has really increased their “injury” stock. All kinds of braces. I have unhappily found myself in that aisle too many times.

    ETA Again: Look at CVS online and see if they have what you want.

  100. 100
    lollipopguild says:

    @WereBear: It’s not so much incompetence as it is having people in charge who want to destroy the country as it currently exists and replace it with a country that never existed and cannot exist in real life. They do not care how much pain and suffering they inflict because they think that they will only benefit from what they want to do. I read an article on Business Insider that PM May and her party will be able to rewrite British laws as part of Brexit and no one will have the power to stop them. Repthugs want to do the same here.

  101. 101
    trollhattan says:


    It’s a Republican that cosplays as an aggrieved Bernie bro.

    Worst. Furry. Ever.

  102. 102
    Mnemosyne says:


    I managed to dig out a compression knee brace that I already had, and now I’m contemplating sending G out for some wrapping tape. I also discovered that we’re almost out of ibuprofen.


    Hello. Yes, I managed to injure myself getting off the couch. And I leave for Disneyworld tomorrow. This sucks. 😢

  103. 103
    Faux News says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Don’t you just love the Concern Trolls on BJ?

  104. 104

    @Faux News: Oh, do we have those here? Never noticed.

  105. 105
    debbie says:


    My 22 y.o. niece and her sorority sisters imbibe with regularity and are regular customers of uber. I once drove drunk when I was 18 (only once), and I know uber’s saved her from this experience. For all the complaints about uber, I think driving drunk kids around is a valuable public service.

  106. 106
  107. 107
    Faux News says:

    @Corner Stone: Agreed. Sounds like the 93 year old might need some sort of Assisted Living.

  108. 108
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @ruemara: Older White people are just finding out that Trump and the GOP have finally caught the proverbial car and the car is them.

  109. 109
    raven says:

    @Mnemosyne: Rest Ice Compression and Elevation NOW!

  110. 110
    Mnemosyne says:


    No worries there — I’m laying down with my knee on a stack of pillows (I Googled for the best way to stack them), I have a knee brace over leggings, and I just finished another round of ice.

  111. 111
    Chet Murthy says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    You might also tell her that she should drive when she goes out

    Oh, ouch. Dunno, I think maybe just setting aside $$ for Uber would be better. Like many others, I have my own memories and stories of irresponsibility in my 20s. I’m sure glad most of that time I lived in big cities where I could take a cab or public transit home. Even in my late 40s I’ve woken up (admittedly, pretty rarely) in the morning in my bed, with no idea how I got there. B/c sure, I took public transit home, but was so drunk I forgot it after.

  112. 112
    frosty says:

    @Mnemosyne: Maybe a knee brace from a pharmacy? It’s worked pretty well for me on some hikes that involve more exertion than I’m used to. The one I’ve been using wraps around and has a cutout for the kneecap.

    I can wear it under jeans.

  113. 113
    J R in WV says:


    N R … hmmm

    I’ve been wondering what this ‘nym means.

    Now I think I know. New Russia!

    I wondered what your mother tongue was… not English, at least not American English. Nothing wrong with that, many immigrants came here from places where British English was taught, that’s who was available to teach English as a Second Language. Brits, or those taught by Brits.

    Then you watch a ton of American TV to get the accent closer, but the usage, the word choice, the slang, won’t ever be quite the same. With coaches to help.

    So, did you learn Russian from your mom? NR? Huh? I’m thinking so. And then British English at school, and then American speech patterns last of all. But you won’t ever know what a pick play is, or even which sport it is. Shame, really. Your heritage is so confused now you won’t fit in anywhere. Ever.

  114. 114
    J R in WV says:


    If you need compression leggings, a medical supply shop would be best, where they sell and rent wheelchairs, devices, supplies. Call around or google for specific things you need.

    But really I recommend stretchy wrap that sticks to itself, several rolls, because it isn’t reusable. Wrap it medium tightly, then ice it with a ziplock full of cubes and water.

  115. 115
    greennotGreen says:

    I’ve been out so I’m sure this is the tail end of the thread, but I wanted to give a wrap-up.
    A. We are not expecting my niece to provide 24/7 attention to my mother. My niece goes out – a lot – and stays out late. We do not necessarily expect to spend the whole night out. When the original agreement was reached, it was going to be her and her husband, but they have since separated. Furthermore, my niece is in school, so there are many hours of the day when she has to be unavailable. We know that.
    B. Profiting, I hope, from the various opinions expressed here, I told my niece that I thought she deserved better quality friends, but at the very least she should always be sure she is the one who drives herself so this doesn’t happen to her again. I also told her I never want to talk about it again. I don’t like to meddle, but I also don’t want to find her in a ditch someday murdered.

  116. 116
    NR says:

    @gene108: At this rate, the Democrats will be the third party soon.

  117. 117
    NR says:

    @Cacti: I’ve been here a lot longer than you, Cupcake. I was here during the 2008 primaries when I supported Obama.

    So you’d better find a new line of attack, because that one ain’t going anywhere.

  118. 118
    NR says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It’s really quite simple. Stop putting the desires of big corporate donors over the needs of the American working class. Start representing the people again, not the CEOs.

    And while you’re at it, stop throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at a handful of consulting firms with an abysmal track record.

  119. 119
  120. 120
    J R in WV says:


    At this rate, the Democrats will be the third party soon.

    And you will be the commissar!! Taking after your personal history.

  121. 121
    Bonnie says:

    I will never, ever feel sorry for a Trump voter. Never. All Trump voters who get hurt by his administration deserve exactly whatever that hurt will be.

  122. 122
    Gretchen says:

    @greennotGreen: I’m late to the party, but here’s my two cents. You don’t specify how much care your mother needs. My 89-year-old MIL doesn’t need much, but it’s good to have someone check in on her. If that’s the level of care your mom needs, your niece going out once Mom is settled in for the night isn’t an issue. If it is, guidelines of what’re required need to be established. Your worry that your niece is insecure enough to require too little consideration from her friends is an important one. It requires delicacy. She probably knows this about herself. It would probably be most helpful to quietly point out when friends fall short, like leaving her without transportation, and strategizing about how to plan ahead next time. “Your friend sucks” will make her defensive. “I’m sorry she left you without transportation. That wasn’t very nice of her. Maybe next time don’t depend on her and make sure you have money for Uber” will give her more of an out to admit that her friend wasn’t very nice to her, maybe she’s not a very good friend, and, most importantly, always have an alternate plan. Quietly pointing out how things could go better could help her decide which friends have her back, and which don’t. That’s hard for everyone. I’m 64, and I forwarded a resignation letter by someone I’ve worked with for 20 years and considered a dear friend. My husband read it as throwing me under the bus. Because of the details, it wasn’t, it was throwing a flamethrower on pretty much everyone else in the organization but me, but that’s what it looked like to someone outside of the situation.

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