Open Thread: See, You’re Getting Smarter Already!

Good for Ms. Guthrie, pushing back on this vital distinction. Also note that Budget Chief Mulvaney slips up a bit, citing ‘a dramatic increase — improvement — over the Obamacare system’.

116 replies
  1. 1

    Rs are destroying the country one institution at a time and for what, another tax cut? I think that’s not it, they are sadists who just get off on pain they cause others less fortunate than they are.

  2. 2
    WereBear says:

    Telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

  3. 3
    Corner Stone says:

    On the scale of all the lies Trump tells I am not sure this is that big of a thing but it should be noted anyway:
    Trump personally met with Russian ambassador during campaign
    “Trump has repeatedly denied meeting with any Russian officials as a candidate”

    UPDATE (3/8): The White House acknowledges that Trump met the Russian ambassador last April, despite previous statements that he had “zero” involvement with Russian officials. White House officials told Bloomberg that the encounter was “brief and non-substantive.”

  4. 4

    A lot hinges on this next week. Don’t be surprised if the Republicans call a surprise midnight session to ram this bill through.

  5. 5

    @Corner Stone: He is bought and paid for by Putin.

  6. 6
    ArchTeryx says:

    Yeah. it’s a rehash from the last thread, but it’s what I got this morning.

    I maintain what I said right after Trump was elected: ZEGS would mount the heads of every poor person who died for lack of health care on his wall like trophies if he could. He’s SS. A True Believer who considers himself a hero if he commits mass murder to enrich billionaires. The Krazy Kaukus thinks exactly the same.

    The question remains whether every single Republican Senator – 2 also wants to hop aboard the trains to the death camps. That has, and continues to be, the thing that will either allow the bill to sail through or stop in the Senate. We know McConnell’s happy to shovel coal while ZEGS sits in the driver’s seat. What about the rest of them?

  7. 7
    lgerard says:

    Having Mulvaney as the spokesperson for this travesty is a win for our side. He is a crazy wingnut with little filter and is sure to throw more gas on the fire.

  8. 8
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    The crew on Moanin’ Ho’s panel sat silent while Tom Cotton lied about how the ACA had been passed without any discussion. Wasn’t it over a year of discussion? It dragged on interminably while each Senator took turns being president for a day – Baucus, Collins, Lieberman, Nelson – all hand wringing pearl clutching town hall “death panel” denying months and months of discussion IIRC.

  9. 9
    rikyrah says:

    To the Frontpagers:

    Please get tweets from the

    #howmanysmartphones

    hashtag about healthcare.

  10. 10
    WereBear says:

    @ArchTeryx: The lower level the asshole, the more they have to lose.

    Look at McConnell; health care and a pension no matter what happens. He will show his paymasters his willingness to go for the brass ring. He doesn’t have to care about the voters any more the same way that jerk who just got in does.

    And in any case, it’s not about money anymore; not in terms of raw survival or nice house or what not. McTurtle is somebody; losing an election would lose him that.

  11. 11

    Now the economically anxious rural WWC will have restricted access to healthcare and fewer doctors to go to. Because guess where those immigrant doctors affected by the Muslin ban, practice? Mostly in rural areas. Hey but now you can scream at any random non-white person and tell them to go back to their country. So it was all worth it! Winning!

  12. 12

    The Daily Mail had a headline this morning that was pretty epic. “Trump’s first full month in office brings massive employment boom as U.S. companies added whopping 298,000 new jobs in February.” I wasn’t looking for it, it just showed up in a suggested articles feed. I’m very dryly amused, can you imagine the opposite spin if it had been Hillary?

    In other news, the CIA docs, such as they are, seem to show capability you would expect from a moderately competent criminal organization, which I already assumed they had. I think Adam was right last night that it’s mostly about laying the groundwork for a ‘CIA hacked Dems, blamed Russia’ narrative, but like everything else these idiots try to coordinate on I don’t know how effective it will be. Like everything, the intent is clear, but not whether or not it will actually work.

  13. 13

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Tom Cotton has introduced a bill to reduce legal immigration too. I thinking he is running for 2020.

  14. 14
    JMG says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s ADT employment number. Recent poll (Quinnipiac I think) shows even Republican voters think economy is still primarily influenced by Obama, not Trump. The CIA accusation founders on the same shoal as the wiretapping charge, to wit, if America’s President and intelligence agencies were trying to fix the election, they sure did a shit job.

  15. 15
    Weaselone says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    We’ll see soon. It’s already worked its way up through Breitbart, so we can probably expect to see it on some combination of Drudge, Fox and Trump’s twitter feed mention it in the next 24 hours.

  16. 16
    Corner Stone says:

    Ali Velshi is pushing back nicely against this AFP clown.

  17. 17
    Kay says:

    Ron Wyden‏Verified account @RonWyden 1h1 hour ago
    More
    No surprise, #Trumpcare is a $275,000,000,000 tax cut for the rich

    Trumpcare.

  18. 18
    gene108 says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    What goes unsaid is the people, who keep saying “I’m opposed to illegal immigration, not legal immigration” never come up with ways to increase legal immigration, such as increasing the number of available H1-B or H2-B visas.

    They generally, are at best, silent on the current immigration situation or work to undermine it somehow.

    It’s pretty obvious that once they get their pound of flesh from illegal immigrants, they’ll go after legal immigrants.

    They are white nationalists, who want to make America white (again).

  19. 19

    A friend of mine posted this on FB. I have no way to confirm it.

    From a friend in DC: Sharing with permission. From an Environmental Protection Agency staffer:
    “So I work at the EPA and yeah it’s as bad as you are hearing: The entire agency is under lockdown, the website, facebook, twitter, you name it is static and can’t be updated. All reports, findings, permits and studies are frozen and not to be released. No presentations or meetings with outside groups are to be scheduled.
    Any Press contacting us are to be directed to the Press Office which is also silenced and will give no response.
    All grants and contracts are frozen from the contractors working on Superfund sites to grad school students working on their thesis.

  20. 20
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Because guess where those immigrant doctors affected by the Muslin ban, practice? Mostly in rural areas.

    Yup. Trump voters didn’t put a whole lot of thought into this.

  21. 21
    Jeffro says:

    What’s funny, in its own grim way, is the simple fact that this horrible “job-killing Obamacare” did no such thing. Economy’s doing quite well, cost curve bent, Medicare & Medicaid coming in well under projections…no wonder Rs are in a panic to kill it: taxing the wealthy to pay for the common good WORKS.

  22. 22
    Kryptik says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    Meanwhile, these assholes are giving what, a week of debate? At most? It’s more GOP: Government by Obvious Projection. Everything they accuse their opponents of, they either are guilty of themselves or will do at the first chance they get.

    The worst part of this bullshit is that they may get their way regardless and destroy lives because hey, daddy needs a tax cut so granny has to have her plug pulled. Sorry Timmy, Granny should’ve known what was going to happen when she was short on her premiums by a penny.

  23. 23

    @gene108: Of course. They want to go back to the restrictionist Johnson-Reed act of the 1920s no Jooz or swarthy southern Europeans as well. BTW those two were Republicans too. The more things change the more they remain the same.

  24. 24
    Kryptik says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I’d say exasperatedly ‘why don’t you just fucking get rid of it then if you’re not going to use it’, but then I’d realize that’s exactly what they’re doing, and not even hiding it. They’re fucking bragging about the thought of abolishing the entire fucking EPA.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    With the random shootings of South Asian people, you’re not going to find a whole lot of non-Muslim South Asian (or just non-white) doctors willing to practice in rural areas. Not to mention the probable visa complications.

  26. 26

    @Weaselone: yeah, I’ve noticed. Like I said, what they’re trying to do is clear. Like everything else, the question is whether it’ll work.

    For what it’s worth I don’t count the Breitbart/Fox people talking about something to be evidence that it’s “working”, just that they’re trying.

  27. 27
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Now the economically anxious rural WWC will have restricted access to healthcare and fewer doctors to go to. Because guess where those immigrant doctors affected by the Muslin ban, practice? Mostly in rural areas. Hey but now you can scream at any random non-white person and tell them to go back to their country. So it was all worth it! Winning!

    I am naive. Until I read a report from Al Jazeera a few weeks ago, I didn’t know the following:
    1. The percentage of doctors practicing in America that are foreign born
    2. How many of those doctors were placed in rural areas, because they are underserved

    I just thought the ignorance of the rural areas was just that – ignorance.
    Now that I know many of them receive their healthcare from ‘foreigners’, explains a lot. They resent the foreigners. They resent them being here. They resent that they need them for their healthcare. They resent that these foreigners are educated. They resent that these foreigners are well paid (compared to them). It explained a lot for me.

    Them voting for the muthaphuckas that will take away their healthcare….I have not one ounce of sympathy for them.

  28. 28
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Corner Stone: I actually think the Trump White House is right here. I’m willing to be they didn’t discuss anything important at all when he met the Russian ambassador (and a few others) in person.

    That said, these assholes are once again proving they can’t find their ass with both hands. Issuing a blanket denial only works if it’s actually true.

  29. 29
    MattF says:

    So, every single thing Trump has said about healthcare legislation has been a lie. But that’s not really news, because…

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Tom Cotton has introduced a bill to reduce legal immigration too. I thinking he is running for 2020.

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

  31. 31
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Trumpcare.

    Kelly Anne Conway was already whining about it being called Trumpcare.

    So, I’m giving up RyanCare.

    TRUMPCARE IT IS.

  32. 32
    randy khan says:

    Just got off the phone with the local office for Don Beyer, my Congressman. He’s opposed (no surprise at all – he’s been great on everything since the inauguration, down to going right to Dulles Airport when Travel Ban 1.0 was announced). Here’s a bit of the dialogue:

    Her: I’m reading the bill now, and . . .

    [Long pause]

    Me: It’s hard to know where to start, isn’t it?

    Her: [Laughs] Yes, it is.

    Next I’m calling not-my-Representative Barbara Comstock. I’m going to guess the call will not go the same way, assuming I even get through.

    ETA: I got through on the first try, miracle of miracles. The staffer sounded only a little bit frazzled.

  33. 33

    @rikyrah: Its not easy for doctors with degrees from non-US universities to immigrate. They have to jump through even more hoops than your average skilled immigrant. More hoops==more years to get your GC. One way to reduce that wait is to serve in an area where there is a shortage of doctors.
    I was once invited to party given by an Indian couple in Maine (both doctors, a pediatrician and an ob-gyn). I was amazed to see the number of Indian doctors serving in rural ME.

  34. 34
    The Moar You Know says:

    I am naive. Until I read a report from Al Jazeera a few weeks ago, I didn’t know the following:
    1. The percentage of doctors practicing in America that are foreign born
    2. How many of those doctors were placed in rural areas, because they are underserved

    @rikyrah: The AMA deliberately forced this situation by pressuring medical schools to keep the number of graduates well below the projected needs of the country. Even giving visas to any doctor who wants to practice in America is still not enough. So America stays underserved and overcharged.

    Mission accomplished.

  35. 35
    randy khan says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    This has been going around. I don’t know if it’s really from the EPA, but it doesn’t sound terribly surprising, and some of it is verified by public statements from the Administration.

  36. 36
    tobie says:

    @Corner Stone:

    The White House acknowledges that Trump met the Russian ambassador last April.

    What a pity there isn’t any video of Trump hugging Kislyak! Apparently it was a very warm hug. That kind of optic means a lot for low information voters.

    By the way: did you notice who was seated next to Kislyak at the event? None other than James Baker, who gave us Tillerson as Secretary of State. Oilmen stick together, I guess.

  37. 37
    amk says:

    This week 8 years ago, @BarackObama was concluding his first 50 days delivering on kids health care, equal pay, economic recovery and more.. pic.twitter.com/vTUy4J5mlz— David Simas (@d_simas) March 6, 2017

  38. 38
    hovercraft says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Tom Cotton has introduced a bill to reduce legal immigration too. I thinking he is running for 2020.

    He’s been running since he was in the house, step one, get to the senate, step 2, run for president, he’ll only run if Twitler doesn’t, or is a dead man walking, he’s young enough to wait till 2024.

  39. 39
    liberal says:

    “Can we just pause you right there? … access to health care is not the same as health care”

    Yeah, but you can say that about any insurance scheme. OTOH, there’s access, and there’s “access”.

  40. 40
    liberal says:

    @The Moar You Know: Foreign doctors can practice here if they can get in. The catch—and it’s a gigantic catch—is that they have to repeat their residency. Ridiculous.

  41. 41
    hovercraft says:

    @rikyrah:
    What is funny about that is she’s saying Twitler has no desire to put his name on it, I don’t remember Obama or the democrats inserting President Obama’s name on the ACA, but the republicans thought it was a great idea to label it Obamacare. Karma bitches, welcome to Trumpcare, it’s as woefully inadequate as the name suggests. Because he don’t give a shit about any of you.

  42. 42

    @The Moar You Know: Graduates of foreign medical schools have to take the USMLE, basically get licensed again and repeat their residency. I believe ER had a storyline about how infuriating this is for experienced foreign born doctors to be treated like grunts by people who knew less than them.

  43. 43
    liberal says:

    @gene108:

    What goes unsaid is the people, who keep saying “I’m opposed to illegal immigration, not legal immigration” never come up with ways to increase legal immigration, such as increasing the number of available H1-B or H2-B visas.

    H1-B is a terrible system. It basically makes the immigrant an indentured servant.

  44. 44
    Jinchi says:

    In fairness to Trump, he won’t personally save any money on these wealthy tax breaks, because he doesn’t pay any taxes.

  45. 45
    liberal says:

    @ArchTeryx:

    A True Believer who considers himself a hero if he commits mass murder to enrich billionaires.

    Him and Walker. May they die extremely painful, prolonged deaths.

  46. 46
    Mike J says:

    @hovercraft:

    Karma bitches, welcome to Trumpcare, it’s as woefully inadequate as the name suggests.

    DeplorableCare.

  47. 47

    @liberal: @gene108: I just point everybody who says that at the senate immigration reform bill and patiently explain that Paul Ryan killed it.

  48. 48
    Yarrow says:

    Need suggestions please for what to say when calling Republican Senators. Would it be better to complain that is bill doesn’t go far enough (FreedomWorks is against it) or better to use a more liberal line of “I need health insurance–don’t vote to take it away”?

    Not sure which way to go here.

  49. 49

    @Yarrow: IMO strategic lying, crossover ratfuck voting, etc. is ineffective, or at least it’s no more effective than sincerity, so I would just be honest.

  50. 50
    Tim C. says:

    Since the Venn Diagram of TPM readers and Balloon Juice readers is probably a circle, most already know this, But Josh has a good analysis piece up.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/e.....g-so-badly

  51. 51
    aimai says:

    @Yarrow: Call twice and use both arguments!

  52. 52
    aimai says:

    @liberal: Isn’t that just another way of getting cheap labor from them? I mean, I presume that is the goal.

  53. 53

    @aimai: the AMA doesn’t want cheap labor for ANY doctor, foreign or otherwise. The goal is to reduce the number of doctors in America by making it annoying to come work here.

  54. 54
    Yarrow says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Good point. Thanks.

    @aimai: I thought about that! So far at the national office I’ve only been able to leave voicemail. The first thing is the “if you have input on a matter please leave voicemail.” I’ve done that, but there’s also an “If you’d like to talk to someone about an issue please press __,” which I’ve also done and it eventually goes to voicemail. I have yet to get a real person. Local office has been the same. I’m sure they do that on purpose.

  55. 55
    Hal says:

    I’m still mind boggled by the CEO tax incentive in this bill. I would really love to know the back story on that one.

  56. 56

    @liberal: In the patchwork of our immigration system please tell me which long term visa on which you are eligible to work is not exploitative in some way.

  57. 57
    Lizzy L says:

    @Mike J: I like Ryancare. It’s a piece of shit and Ryan owns it. If it doesn’t pass it’ll be all his. If it passes, calling it Ryancare will piss Trump off, and when folks start dying, we’ll hang it even more strongly around Ryan and the Republicans’ necks.

  58. 58
    Yarrow says:

    @Lizzy L: How about RepublicanCare, then? Make it clear. I prefer TrumpCare, though. Make him own this shit. It can’t be law if he doesn’t sign it after they pass it, which hopefully they won’t. The buck stops with Trump.

  59. 59
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yarrow:

    Fax them, or send a letter or postcard. I think you can still send letters to the local offices, it’s the D.C. offices where they get opened off-site.

  60. 60
    randy khan says:

    @Yarrow:

    Today, I’m going with the AARP argument – that it will cause huge increases in costs for people over 50 and will result in people losing their health insurance as a result. But tomorrow, I might go with something else.

  61. 61
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Yarrow: Going from the “I need insurance” angle seems like it’d work better. I mean, they’re afraid of FreedomWorks and getting primaried. But they also need to know how horrible people think the law is, and opposition related to survival goes farther – as do sad stories about people dying because Republicans removed their health care. Which is what they’re going to get.

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I know we’ve argued about this before, but H1B is really bad and needs some major reforms to protect the workers who come over here on one.

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:

    By the way, Gin and Tacos found the name of the actual bill. This is not a joke, though I wish to god it were.

  64. 64

    @aimai: Most US citizens have no idea what the average immigrant has to go through (from the guy picking up lettuce in a farm to the doctor who toils in a remote Maine village) to make it in this country. They think its candy land for these lazy shiftless immigrants stealing jobs or worse.

  65. 65
    sigaba says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    Don’t be surprised if the Republicans call a surprise midnight session to ram this bill through.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Paul Ryan is not Tom DeLay, if they think this will play out like the Part D vote they may be sorely surprised.

    @Mnemosyne: That’s awesome, it’s literally the greatest name for a bill ever. How do I know? It says so right on the tin.

  66. 66
    randy khan says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Barbara Comstock’s page essentially tells you not to write letters – it says they can take two weeks to get there and that email is faster. But, of course, if you go to email her you need to provide detailed address information before the system will even let you write your message. (Trying to screen out nasty outside agitators, apparently.)

  67. 67

    @Mnemosyne: There are systemic abuses on almost any long term visas on which you can work. F1, J visas etc. H1-B gets the bad rap because the ones that get affected can make more noise since they are white collar workers.

    ETA: Not just the H1-B, the entire system needs an overhaul. That is not punitive towards the immigrants.

  68. 68
    hovercraft says:

    @Hal:
    The back story is simple, campaign donations. Also too philosophy, they are CEO’s which means they are winners, winners need to be rewarded for winning, the rest of us should be treated like the losers we are. Simple.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:

    @randy khan:

    Email generally gets ignored, which is why they ask you to send it. 😠 Fax or letter to local office is the best second choice if you can’t get through on the phone.

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    We’ve needed comprehensive immigration reform for at least a decade. We might have been able to battle it out with a new President Clinton, but now we’re all pretty screwed.

  71. 71
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    @randy khan: Does Comstock have a fax number? A virtual fax from a computer might get through like letters and emails can’t.

  72. 72
    Sab says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: yeah. I watched the ACA markup on Cspan in my living room.It
    went on for months. It would have gone on longer but they had to finish the thing before Minnesota finished Frankens recount.

  73. 73
    hovercraft says:

    @randy khan:
    I want everyone to hammer away at the Medicaid portion. “Do you want your MIL to move in? Because that’s whats’ going to happen when Ryan-Trumpcare goes into effect, there will be no money to pay for that nice nursing home you dumped her in.” These people don’t want to look after let alone live with their in-laws.

  74. 74
    The Moar You Know says:

    By the way, Gin and Tacos found the name of the actual bill. This is not a joke, though I wish to god it were.

    @Mnemosyne: Holy fuck, these people have all gone insane.

  75. 75
    montanareddog says:

    @Hal:

    I’m still mind boggled by the CEO tax incentive in this bill. I would really love to know the back story on that one.

    As a bribe to Insurance CEOs not to oppose it, perhaps?

  76. 76
    Fair Economist says:

    @sigaba:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Paul Ryan is not Tom DeLay, if they think this will play out like the Part D vote they may be sorely surprised.

    We’ve seen many demonstrations over the past 6 years that the Republican House leadership can’t count votes and doesn’t control their caucus. They frequently bluff. On several occasions they’ve had to pull a bill at the last minute, and undoubtedly there have been other occasions when they bluffed and managed to pull it off. Ryan does not have the votes at present.

    McConnell, in contrast, does control his show. Being willing to call an instavote *might* mean he has the votes. More likely, though, he doesn’t actually know yet (I don’t think he’s got 50 votes for “anything that passes the house” and they haven’t yet looked at the actual bill in detail yet) and just figures an instavote is his best chance for passage, however slim.

  77. 77
    Jinchi says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Email generally gets ignored, which is why they ask you to send it.

    They also want your contact information so they can spam you with fundraising emails.

  78. 78
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Seems like the postcard might be too late, as fast as they’re indicating they want to move on this. I’ll see about the fax, though.

    @randy khan: Thanks. Good suggestion for the AARP angle. I’ll focus on that. Old people vote Republican.

    @MisterForkbeard: Yes, I think I’ll just be honest about it. The bill sucks and I need insurance. Please don’t take it away.

  79. 79
    dmsilev says:

    @Mnemosyne: Holy shit. “H.R.1275 – World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017”. Really? REALLY? REAAAAALLLLLY???!?!?

  80. 80
    hovercraft says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I don’t think having Hillary would have made a difference, if anything it would have been worse. I know, hard to imagine, but remember she would have won with a minority of the white vote, the economically anxious would have been pissed that those people had once again installed a president who had their interests and not the interests of “real Americans” as a priority. They would have been out for blood, and their congresscritters would be loath to cross them.

  81. 81
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wow. That is just insane.

    @hovercraft:

    I want everyone to hammer away at the Medicaid portion. “Do you want your MIL to move in? Because that’s whats’ going to happen when Ryan-Trumpcare goes into effect, there will be no money to pay for that nice nursing home you dumped her in.” These people don’t want to look after let alone live with their in-laws.

    This is a good point. I remember someone here–a lawyer maybe?–saying a lot of states had laws on the books saying you were required by law to take care of your parents if they didn’t have enough money to care for themselves. I wish we could get an update on that because if true it’s also good to add to the messaging–“and you’re required by law to do so.”

  82. 82
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jinchi:

    Since I live in a deep blue area, I don’t mind getting emails from my representatives. Adam Schiff had a really great newsletter that he sent out every month about local events (arts as well as political), plus he would do his own mini-polls. I haven’t seen anything like that from our new rep since we moved one district over.

  83. 83
    dmsilev says:

    @Fair Economist: McConnell, unlike Ryan, knows what he’s doing. And I think there’s a reasonable chance that he’s setting things up to fail without having his fingerprints visible. Because he knows that Senators like their privileges and like to mark their territory have some say in legislation, so announcing “no debate, no committees, you’ll take what the House passes and like it” is just asking for a couple of prima donnas (and two is all it would take) throw sand in the gears.

  84. 84
    Kay says:

    Jennifer Palmieri, communications director for Hillary Clinton’s failed presidential bid, described FBI Director James Comey as a “particularly infuriating character” on Wednesday and argued that he cares about “protecting his own reputation” above all else.

    Really? If that was what he was up to he failed miserably.

  85. 85
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Fair Economist:

    I think this calculation is correct — McConnell thinks they can pass the bill and then ride out the consequences. He thinks everyone will forget by 2018, and if they don’t, it’s mostly Democratic seats up anyway.

  86. 86
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    Comey gets to think of himself as a martyr now. Unfairly treated by both sides. He’s happier than a pig in shit.

  87. 87
    JeanneT says:

    FaxZero has free faxing to most members of Congress. You can connect to each office right from the FaxZero directory. I have been writing my letters just on the cover page rather than doing an attachment. Using the free faxes has quintupled my contacts to my reps and senators.

  88. 88
    TenguPhule says:

    @Corner Stone: I win that bet then. Someone down several threads told me even Trump wasn’t stupid enough to actually meet with the Russians in person. I told them at this point, yes he is.

  89. 89
    TenguPhule says:

    “World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017”

    I am almost speechless.

    This is the GOP’s Work makes you Free, Final Solution moment.

  90. 90
    JMG says:

    @Mnemosyne: If so, he knows something about his members their public statements contradict — not that that would be a shocker, but even Tom Cotton is indicating he’d to slow this train down. People getting higher bills or going into massive debt don’t tend to forget it just because some time passes.

  91. 91
    🌷 Martin says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Rs are destroying the country one institution at a time and for what, another tax cut?

    I think their scorecard is Dem wins vs GOP wins. I don’t think they particularly care how they get in the endzone or how many players need to die to get there, they just want to put the points up.

  92. 92
    The Moar You Know says:

    I remember someone here–a lawyer maybe?–saying a lot of states had laws on the books saying you were required by law to take care of your parents if they didn’t have enough money to care for themselves. I wish we could get an update on that because if true it’s also good to add to the messaging–“and you’re required by law to do so.”

    @Yarrow: Not a lawyer but unfortunately I can assure you it is true. My spouse and I were both extremely concerned about this, as her mother WILL be trying to hit us up for money we do not have (my spouse is the only kid of hers who has any assets at all) – and we’re not paying a dime. Not with the non-stop history of abuse that the MIL inflicted on my wife. I’ll burn the fucking house down first.

  93. 93
    Shana says:

    @dmsilev: Is that what it’s really called? The link isn’t working for me.

  94. 94
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump Brand Hookers. Get Screwed only by the Best!

    There is no God. And if there is, its an evil bastard.

  95. 95
    Yarrow says:

    @JeanneT: Thanks for the tip. It’s great FaxZero does this!

    I just called all the offices of one of my Senators and could get nothing but voicemail. I’ll try after lunch. Maybe they’re all on a conference all or something. Called two state offices of another Senator and got a live person both times. Used the AARP is against it argument.

    @The Moar You Know: Thanks for the info. I’m sorry for what your wife had to endure. It’s really unfair if the law requires abused kids to take care of their elderly parents.

  96. 96
    JeanneT says:

    @dmsilev: Do you think they got the Onion to help them come up with that? Obviously a hat-tip to PT Barnum; the Repubs think their voters are the suckers….

  97. 97
    MCA1 says:

    @TenguPhule: Presumably, Paul Ryan’s office is giving out free seed caps with that title on them to anyone who wants one.

    “They’re making healthcare great again – says so right there on the hat.”

    I mean, technically speaking, I guess it is the world’s greatest healthcare plan unveiled in 2017, so if that’s how we’re to read “of” it’s factually accurate. Seeing as the entire rest of the first world has no need of a new plan, and the ACA’s from 8 years ago.

    I’m all in for calling it “Trumpcare” because it’s pretty clear he actually named this pos.

  98. 98
    Kay says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I have never in my life heard of this. Are you sure? They specifically hold guardians of incompetent elderly relatives harmless. I can’t imagine how they’d reach ordinary relatives. We let parents off the hook when children reach majority.

  99. 99
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: One of my patients is a senior in environmental engineering at the local big U; they had an EPA person talk to one of his classes last month and that person said the same thing. The EPA has been utterly hamstrung.

  100. 100
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: From ElderLaw Answers:

    Twenty-eight states currently have laws making adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can’t afford to take care of themselves. While these laws are rarely enforced, there has been speculation that states may begin dusting them off as a way to save on Medicaid expenses.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Well, I guess it is true in 28 states. I suppose I never ran into it because they all spend down and go on Medicaid.

    Since Medicaid is an entitlement, not a program everyone pays into like Social Security or Medicare, the Federal government defines eligibility. And Federal law prohibits state Medicaid programs from looking at the finances of anyone other than the applicant or the applicant’s spouse. When the elderly exhaust their assets, individually or as a couple, the government steps in and pays for their long-term care. Adult children are not part of the Medicaid eligibility equation.
    But Medicaid is in big trouble — cutting here, squeezing there — and will be inundated when baby boomers reach old age. The staggering cost of long-term care and the explosion in the number of people who will need it has prompted a second look at filial responsibility laws as a way to deal with the impending crisis. The National Center for Policy Analysis, a conservative policy group, identified contributions from adult children as one solution to increasing expenditures and insufficient revenues in a 2005 issue brief. A few law journal articles followed, most recently one earlier this year in The Elder Law Journal.

    I cannot imagine the ripple effects of younger people paying for nursing home care, or even home health. Boy, if they thought they were “economically anxious” before just wait until this kicks in.

  102. 102
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: Fantastic, isn’t it? Be sure to mention it in addition to “mom getting kicked out of the nursing home” discussions. Kids will be required by law to care for mom.

  103. 103
    MCA1 says:

    @The Moar You Know: That’s accurate. They’re not enforced all that often, but filial laws exist in a little over half the states. Generally they require that the parent looking for support be impoverished to some degree, so if your elderly parents have enough money to pay for even a crummy nursing facility, they don’t have a right to look to you for payment. I have no legal experience in the area, but I think there’s an affirmative defense in most states if a parent has abandoned or abused a child, so the marker could be laid down if necessary that [insert awful trait] parent’s [insert reprehensible behavior] is going to be fully aired in court as a deterrent to said parent bringing suit themselves. That wouldn’t necessarily act as a deterrent to the state, though they may be more likely to decide not to pursue if they anticipate a protracted battle over whether or not the parent forfeited a right to familial contributions by bad behavior.

  104. 104
    1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet) says:

    @Yarrow: I work for Social Security Disability, and when I call on this I tell the staffers that healthy people work more, are more productive, and are less likely to become unemployed. Good healthcare therefore makes, along with good transportation infrastructure and decent job training access, a three-legged stool for prosperous communities. Healthy people also cost their communities less, both in uninsured coverage costs, loss of earnings both for themselves and for family members who miss work looking after them, and in short-term and long-term disability expenses. It’s therefore more economically advantageous to have good healthcare access.

    Sometimes that makes a dent. It depends on whether they are Chamber of Commerce Republicans or whether they are operating under the Moral Purity Code for Zombie-eyed Granny Starvers.

  105. 105
    Yarrow says:

    @MCA1: If Medicaid gets gutted and won’t pay for nursing homes, I expect a lot more laws like this to pass in states that don’t currently have them.

    @1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet): Thanks for the input. I’ll use that with the Senator whose office I couldn’t get through to. I think it’ll work better than the AARP argument.

  106. 106
    MCA1 says:

    @Yarrow: Yeah, I wouldn’t be shocked. And they’d likely get enforcement ratcheting upwards in those states that already have them, especially the redder (read: poorer, fed gov’t teat-sucking hypocrite) ones. Then again, in a place like California, I could see it going the other way, with the State legislature telling the nursing home operators “Yeah, you’re out of luck there. How ’bout we tie your licensing to forcing you to take in a certain number of people incapable of paying your exorbitant bills every year on a pro bono basis, and you go talk to the Republican U.S. Congress about reinstalling Medicaid, ’cause we’re not your collection agent.”

  107. 107
    PIGL says:

    @liberal: It’s pretty wonderful for the companies they are indentured to. I’m sure that’s an utterly mystifying coincidence.

  108. 108
    StringOnAStick says:

    I posted this upstairs, but I thought I’d put it here too:

    For people who want to take a further step and write letters to the editor on any subject, I received a handy one page set of guidelines from an OFA volunteer who has gotten her stuff printed hundreds of times. Even if they don’t print it, the editor reads it and every bit of exposure helps us. A lot more people will see a LTTE than any facebook post, since no one has as many friends as the major newspapers have subscribers.

    Her rules for getting published are simple: (1) no more than 150 words, (2) embed the text in your email, do not send as an attachment because it won’t get opened, (3) your letter must include your name, address and phone number, and are about a specific event or article that was published. They won’t print your address or telephone number, but without it they won’t publish the letter.

    Since my only rethug MOC is on perpetual voice mail now, my best bet is postcards to his office and LTTE, so that’s on my task list today.

  109. 109
    PIGL says:

    @dmsilev: They their voters really are that stupid.

  110. 110
    Sandia Blanca says:

    @JeanneT: Ditto to the recommendation to use FaxZero. It’s a great way to get an actual piece of paper into your Rep’s or Senator’s office. Be aware that it costs if you want to send more than 3 pages per fax.

    Here’s a nice script from someone on FB: “I urge my Representative not to vote on the proposed health care act until the CBO has scored it. I am unable to form a position without knowing what the cost to taxpayers will be and how individual rates are likely to be affected. I also need to know how many people are expected to gain or lose coverage under the proposed plan. This information is essential for decision making and it would be irresponsible to vote yes or no without this knowledge. Thank you.”

  111. 111
    Turgidson says:

    I’m old enough to remember how the GOP convinced their braindead base that the ACA was “rammed down the throats” of the American people because it only took a year and hundreds of hearings and who knows how many hours of floor debate for the bill to take shape and pass. I’m also old enough to remember how the mainstream media gave them a pass on that bullshit (and so much other bullshit).

    And here they are, trying to pass a bill that is so shitty and so unacceptable to just about everyone with an opinion that you’d think it was drafted by a 6-year old on quaaludes who was given a crayon, in a week.

    It’s almost as if they have been full of shit all this time. Hopefully Chucklehead Todd and Ron Fournier and the rest will get on this breaking story. Ha. I kill me.

  112. 112
    catclub says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Gin and Tacos found the name of the actual bill

    CACA was taken, so they tried AHCA. only a single shit sandwich.

  113. 113
    gbbalto says:

    @Yarrow: Good idea! Here you are

  114. 114
    J R in WV says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    H.R.1275 – World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

    Oh my fuckind dawg, that is so good. AKA RyanCare or TrumpCare. But World’s Greatest says it all, because the US health care system – according to the World Health Organization our health care is ranked like this:
    .
    .
    .
    35 Dominica
    36 Costa Rica
    37 USA
    38 Slovenia
    39 Cuba
    .
    .
    .
    That’s right, 37th in the world, below Dominica and Costa Rica !!! And just barely above Slovenia !!!!

    Naturally, for the very wealthy, or people with cadillac health insurance, we probably rank very highly. The Donald won’t get Costa Rican health care. Mrs J got really good teaching hospital medical care when it counted, her health scare had a 70/30 scary rating, and the good outcome is the short end of that ratio. But of course the WHO ranking includes people in Mississippi and New Mexico with no health care for 90 miles, as it should.

    Grrrr.

  115. 115
    Capri says:

    @Yarrow: Stick to Age tax. Nice and simple.

  116. 116
    The Lodger says:

    @rikyrah: Reminds me of my doctor friend whose first job was a storefront practice in rural North Carolina, as payback for the Health Service paying for part of med school. She was instantly among the 3% in her county, and her husband wasn’t even working.

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