Why we need to fight

First a story from Jacy:

I had a catastrophic plan the first year — which was the year I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer that July. Living in Louisiana, I fell into the “Jindal Hole,” where I made too much money for Medicaid but not enough money to qualify for a subsidy. It was a nightmare. Out-of-pocket cap was supposed to be $6,300 after a $4,200 deductible (which was a fortune that I couldn’t afford anyway…), but having a major diagnosis meant that I racked up bills so fast that they couldn’t even process the claims to figure out when the insurance would kick in. Fast forward to October, where I was standing at the reception desk of the oncologist’s office, crying, because I couldn’t pay the $5,000 copay to get the chemotherapy I was scheduled for that day. I was paying almost $500 a month for insurance, had spent borrowed and spent nearly $7,000 in copays and deposits to meet my deductible and and out-of-pocket cap, but none of that mattered. I had to postpone chemotherapy and spent the next several days on the phone trying to get someone to authorize treatment or find some way to come up with thousands of more dollars on the spot.

The next year, I made enough money to get a silver plan, and I was paying $128 a month in premiums, with a $200 deductible, after which everything was totally covered. I would not have survived another year on the catastrophic plan.

And then a story from the truly bad old days as written in the LA Times:

 

When Steve and Leslie Shaeffer’s daughter, Selah, was diagnosed at age 4 with a potentially fatal tumor in her jaw, they figured their health insurance would cover the bulk of her treatment costs.

Instead, almost two years later, the Murrieta, Calif., couple face more than $60,000 in medical bills and fear the loss of their dream home. They struggle to stave off creditors as they try to figure out how Selah can keep seeing the physician they credit with saving her life.

“We’re in big trouble,” Leslie said.

Shortly after Selah’s medical bills hit $20,000, Blue Cross stopped covering them and eventually canceled her coverage retroactively, refusing to pay for treatment, including surgery the insurer had authorized in advance.

The company accused the Shaeffers of failing to disclose in their coverage application an undiagnosed bump on Selah’s chin and physician visits for croup. Had that been disclosed, the company said in a letter, it would not have insured Selah.

(h/t Charles Gaba)

Let’s avoid the bad old days.

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103 replies
  1. 1
    TenguPhule says:

    Let’s avoid the bad old days.

    Sorry, this is a feature, not a bug to Republican Healthcare Reform.

    You’re On Your Own.

  2. 2
    oldster says:

    Why we need to fight and phone and town-hall and march and organize and run and caucus and GOTV and

    RESIST!

  3. 3
    Redshift says:

    OT: The crowd at Trump’s speech at CPAC were enthusiastically waving Russian flags with “TRUMP” printed on them until staffers started collecting them. A prankster handed them out to the audience, guessing correctly that they would be too dumb to recognize the flag.

    https://twitter.com/emigre80/status/835194463836307461

  4. 4
    The Moar You Know says:

    Instead, almost two years later, the Murrieta, Calif., couple face more than $60,000 in medical bills and fear the loss of their dream home.

    To be purchased by a REIT and rented out at a nice profit. Dismantling the middle class is VERY profitable.

  5. 5
    MJS says:

    @TenguPhule: Yep, “pro-life”, from conception to birth (provided the birth isn’t too expensive).

  6. 6
    Betty Cracker says:

    Keep showing up, people. It’s working:

    GOP Rep.: O’care Repeal May Not Have Enough Votes After Town Hall Pressure

    Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL) on Thursday warned that some congressional Republicans may no longer have the guts to fully repeal the Affordable Care Act after facing pressure from constituents at town halls this week.

    Brooks said on WBHP’s “The Morning Show with Toni & Gary,” first flagged by CNN, that he believes “a significant number” of his colleagues “are being impacted by these kinds of protests and their spine is a little bit weak.”

    “And I don’t know if we’re going to be able to repeal Obamacare now because these folks who support Obamacare are very active, they’re putting pressure on congressmen and there’s not a counter-effort to steel the spine of some of these congressmen in tossup districts around the country,” he said.

    Brooks, a member of the House Freedom Caucus who advocates a full repeal of the health care law, worried there may not even be a vote at this point.

    “But this monstrosity needs to be repealed and right now, in my judgment, we don’t have the votes in Congress to pass a repeal bill, in part because of what these people are doing,” he said.

    My guess is they compromise by repealing parts of the ACA, providing crappier coverage to fewer people and pleasing no one. Hopefully that’ll bring the bastards down, then we can obstruct and grind further tinkering to a halt until Trump gets crushed by President Kirsten Gillibrand, who rolls out KirstenCare after the 2020 election — with a public option! Squee! :)

  7. 7
    The Moar You Know says:

    Why we need to fight and phone and town-hall and march and organize and run and caucus and GOTV and RESIST!

    @oldster: It would have been far more effective to do all these things BEFORE the election.

  8. 8
    The Moar You Know says:

    Brooks, a member of the House Freedom Caucus who advocates a full repeal of the health care law, worried there may not even be a vote at this point.

    @Betty Cracker: When I used to do sales, this was called “letting ’em down easy”. There will be no repeal. They may fuck with it until it’s largely useless, but there will be limits to that.

  9. 9
    gvg says:

    @The Moar You Know: yes, but here we are.

  10. 10
    NorthLeft12 says:

    I think I will spit at the TV every time I see another Blue Cross commercial. You know, if they were just honest and said that they only want to insure people who never get sick or need treatment, I think I could respect them more. Anyone who reads this and has Blue Cross coverage should email a link of this story and ask their customer service if this is how you will be treated if your family requires expensive medical treatment.

  11. 11
    hilts says:

    OT

    Another day another opportunity for Trump to descend to a new low:

    Several news organizations boycotted the White House press gaggle this afternoon after the White House excluded CNN and other outlets from attending.

    Press gaggles — on-the-record scrums with communication staff that disallow video recording — are a staple of White House reporting, and it’s highly unusual for a reporter to be barred from the meeting. Today, after Trump delivered a stinging (and contradictory) critique of the media, The New York Times, CNN, the L.A. Times, Politico and BuzzFeed were prevented from attending.

    The Associated Press and Time boycotted the gaggle in solidarity with their colleagues. Other news organizations, including The Wall Street Journal, One America News Network and Fox News were allowed in and did not boycott the gaggle.

    h/t http://www.poynter.org/2017/wh.....gle/450233

  12. 12
    Geeno says:

    @Betty Cracker: She’s my Senator; I have such a crush on her.
    I remember when she was appointed, there was a lot of concern she would be a blue dog, because she had represented a more conservative Adirondack district – good score from the NRA and all that, but she pivoted right around and has well represented the more liberal state-wide electorate as senator. I’d vote for her in a heartbeat.

  13. 13
    JCJ says:

    So today I met a 57 year old lady with anal cancer. She has had bleeding for several months and according to her and her children she was scheduled to undergo evaluation with colonoscopy in June of last year. Just before that her husband had lost his job (truck driver) and they were thus without insurance. (She did not say if they had tried to find insurance on the exchanges.) She stated the clinic cancelled the colonoscopy because of her lack of insurance. Her husband got a new job in the fall with health insurance that began in January. She now presents with advanced disease with two lesions in the liver which are likely metastases (biopsy is Tuesday.)

    I will be able to treat her to reduce the pelvic pain she is experiencing as well as stop the bleeding, but she is not curable. She probably was in June.

    Anal carcinoma is one of the malignancies that can be prevented with HPV vaccines. Even if she were curable the course of treatment (radiation and chemotherapy can cure local/regional disease) is pretty miserable.

  14. 14
    hovercraft says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Like I said in the last thread, once our side gets it’s act together and layers on ads like these:

    The ads are part of a “six figure” ad buy from the “Save My Care” campaign that will run in Ohio and Tennessee, according to an advance copy of the press release announcing the ads. Tennessee is home to Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Chairman Lamar Alexander, a key player in the Obamacare debate.

    “I’m a Republican. I voted for Trump,” says a man identified as Dennis, who is featured in the Tennessee ad. He was diagnosed with esophageal cancer and says in the ad, “The Affordable Care Act saved my life.”

    The ad running in Ohio features a woman named Paula, who was diagnosed with breast cancer, which spread to her brain and liver. The Medicaid expansion in Ohio under the Affordable Care Act helps her afford her cancer treatment, according to the press release.

    “Grandma still needs some help,” Paula’s grandson says in the ad. The ad ends with a message to lawmakers to save her health care.

    The ads will coincide with the campaign’s bus tour, which so far has covered more than a dozen states, many of which are home to Republican lawmakers.

    This week, lawmakers at town hall meetings back home are facing tense crowds with questions about protecting their health care.

    – See more at: http://www.rollcall.com/news/p.....w8fSK.dpuf

  15. 15
    WereBear says:

    @NorthLeft12: Anyone who reads this and has Blue Cross coverage should email a link of this story and ask their customer service if this is how you will be treated if your family requires expensive medical treatment.

    That would be pointless because I have Blue Cross coverage and I just endured seven months of the most hideous customer service experience I have ever encountered, and I am a person in the US in 2017: you know that’s a lot of bad customer service experiences.

    They don’t care.

    Because the answer is yes, they will treat you just as badly as they can get away with. I was told to go outside of network for a diagnostic my doctor requested and after a lot of my time sucked into a black hole to make them decide, they flip-flopped three times and the latest is they will not pay for the diagnostic, despite that being the correct diagnosis, because it “wasn’t medically necessary.”

    What does that mean? I have to mount appeals to find out.

    I am only fortunate that the result is a) not life-wreckingly expensive and b) not deadly.

  16. 16
    trollhattan says:

    @Geeno:
    My first encounter with her was a TDS visit early into her senate term and I too was utterly smitten, and not just because she’s cute as a damn button. From the other coast it seems as though she’s really grown into the position. Bring on the Kristen Wave!

  17. 17
    jonas says:

    @hovercraft:

    “I’m a Republican. I voted for Trump,” says a man identified as Dennis, who is featured in the Tennessee ad. He was diagnosed with esophageal cancer and says in the ad, “The Affordable Care Act saved my life.”</blockquote

    Dennis isn't really too good at thinking things through, is he?

  18. 18
    🌷 Martin says:

    @Betty Cracker: I do like Kristen, but she’s going to be up against Kamala. We can’t lose between them, but my money is on Kamala coming out ahead.

  19. 19
    MJS says:

    @hilts: I’m very happy Trump did this. Given the current Republican Senate and House, there is no chance at all that investigations will be launched from Congress. So we’re going to have to rely on our less-than-stellar press to do that work, and a pissed off press is better than a lap dog press happy to get the scraps of propaganda provided at these “gaggles”.

  20. 20
    Kelly says:

    Back in the 1990’s 5 years of metastatic breast cancer treatments ran up about $750k of my first wife’s million dollar life time limit. I suspect at today’s prices we’d have been cashing in the 401K and mortgaging the house in 3 to 4 years.

  21. 21
    Yutsano says:

    @The Moar You Know: If they can stall until November 2017 and Virginia goes blue then it’s possible that both Virginia and North Carolina expand Medicaid. It could be the dam breakage that makes even the South get flooded.

    I get the feeling any Medicaid changes (expanded or legacy) will also never happen. No block grants for you Paulie!

  22. 22
    Juju says:

    @The Moar You Know: A lot of us did phone and try GOTV. Sometimes people don’t figure things out until it is painfully obvious.

  23. 23
    trollhattan says:

    @🌷 Martin:
    I dunno about that. She’s brand-spanking new on the national stage and 2020 seems like a stretch.

    In any case there’s too much Trumpocalypse to unfold before we even know what’s the new normal, nor what’s possible.

  24. 24
    Kelly says:

    @trollhattan: Brand spanking new seems to be a good thing now days. Twisting any existing record is more effective than objecting to inexperience.

  25. 25
    🌷 Martin says:

    Also from the ‘who could have expected’ genre.

    The Federal Communications Commission plans to halt implementation of a privacy rule that requires ISPs to protect the security of its customers’ personal information.

    The data security rule is part of a broader privacy rulemaking implemented under former Chairman Tom Wheeler but opposed by the FCC’s new Republican majority. The privacy order’s data security obligations are scheduled to take effect on March 2, but Chairman Ajit Pai wants to prevent that from happening.

    The data security rule requires ISPs and phone companies to take “reasonable” steps to protect customers’ information—such as Social Security numbers, financial and health information, and Web browsing data—from theft and data breaches.

    Here’s the argument:

    Pai has said that ISPs shouldn’t face stricter rules than online providers like Google and Facebook, which are regulated separately by the Federal Trade Commission. Pai wants a “technology-neutral privacy framework for the online world” based on the FTC’s standards. According to today’s FCC statement, the data security rule “is not consistent with the FTC’s privacy standards.”

    While that might sound reasonable, online providers like Google and Facebook can’t all be regulated by the FTC because they aren’t geographically bounded to the US. Many providers are outside the US and not subject to the FTC. By comparison, ISPs are geographically bounded. So on your way to a foreign provider with no regulations you need to pass through a domestic ISP that could protect your information. And it’s getting increasingly difficult even with those providers to understand where your data lives. China requires providers to keep data of Chinese residents physically within China to prevent other nations from having access to it. But there’s nothing stopping US providers from shifting your data outside the US, under a non-FTC regulated entity, without your knowledge. I can’t think of a data provider off hand that wouldn’t be self-motivated to strongly protect your data, but then, we haven’t see the kinds of shenanigans that the Trump administration has in mind. Could CBP be limited to only collecting social media account information that was outside US jurisdiction? That’d likely cause a lot of data to shift either into or out of the country, that kind of thing.

  26. 26
    MobiusKlein says:

    @NorthLeft12: Do note that the LA Times story was from 2006.
    This a reason that Health Insurance reform was high on the Democratic Party’s priority list in 2008/2009.

    And in a system before ACA, if one insurance company was more permissive, their rates would be higher, and thus only attract the sickest patients. Death Spiral.

  27. 27
    WereBear says:

    @Juju: A lot of us did phone and try GOTV. Sometimes people don’t figure things out until it is painfully obvious.

    Which is where we are now.

    If we got Jeb Bush, they would have been sneaky and there would have been “room to let them show us they care” and the ratchet would have turned another inch or two and the bad things would happen one at a time and we’d get told we’re overreacting and so shrill and emotional and the Village would keep on doing their both-sides thing.

    There isn’t any plausible deniability anymore.

  28. 28
    Kelly says:

    Well I know how I’ll pay for my much more expensive Trumpcare. Whine LaPierre of the NRA sez I can make $1500 a week protesting. Sweet!

  29. 29
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @TenguPhule:

    You’re On Your Own to die.

    Added for emphasis. This is the Christian, moral values party, y’all.

  30. 30
    🌷 Martin says:

    @trollhattan: She’s no newer to the national stage than Obama was, she’s carrying a lot of name recognition from a large state, and she got some pretty plum committees for being a freshman senator. She’s being set up to run, and she’s acting like she’s going to run. And I think Democrats will like her more than they may now realize.

  31. 31
    Mikefromarlington says:

    Republicans will simply market it with some Christian wrapping and they’ll all say if you don’t agree it’s cause you’re not a true Christian.

    Off topic but I have a conspiracy theory.

    All these dying Russian diplomats….remember how the CIA said they wanted to withhold info from Trump? Wonder if Trumps team got a hold of it and found the Russians that were feeding the CIA and that ex MI6 guy that’s on the run all the dirt on Trump and handed it over to the Russians? Or maybe Trump unknowingly gave it to them by running his big mouth on his Andrioid phone? And now the Russians are going down the list killing them off!

  32. 32
    jacy says:

    I actually had no trouble at all with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Never had them make a peep about a single thing, including multiple PET scans to screen for a return of my cancer. And they covered my mental health therapy 100%. It had been a nightmare before that, when I was with a state-run insurance cooperative on the catastrophic plan. (Which was dismantled and no longer existed a year later) But in two year with BC/BS, I’ve never had a single problem, and that was with multiple exploratory surgeries, traveling to other cities to see specialists, PET scans, MRIs, emergency room visits, and rafts of weekly lab tests. I haven’t added up my total healthcare costs in real dollars — but the first year is was over $200,000, of which I ended up paying almost $17,000 out of pocket. (And that year, I had an income of $16,000)

  33. 33
    WereBear says:

    @jacy: I’m glad. In this instance, it was more important they treat you right than myself.

  34. 34
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @JCJ:

    She stated the clinic cancelled the colonoscopy because of her lack of insurance.

    This should never happen to any citizen of a civilized, Western country. This is the death panel that Sarah Palin ignored while she was spewing lies about the ACA.

  35. 35
    germy says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    crushed by President Kirsten Gillibrand

    I hope the purity ponies on the left don’t make a big thing about Gillibrand’s husband. He’s a venture capitalist. That might be enough to send them flocking back to Dr. Stein.

  36. 36
    trollhattan says:

    @🌷 Martin:
    Maybe. I’m not getting the buzz yet around the capital, though. DiFi’s forthcoming decision will also have an impact, as will the governor’s race.

  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Yes..

    keep on reminding us why we fight.

    Those are but two stories of millions. Keep on telling them.

    No going back to the bad old days.

  38. 38
    Roger Moore says:

    @Redshift:

    A prankster handed them out to the audience, guessing correctly that they would be too dumb to recognize the flag.

    That, my friends, is a master-level troll.

  39. 39
    crawdad says:

    I heard about a teacher who got cancer and had to start making meth to pay for his treatment.

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    While I’m always a sociopath, I’m feeling especially sociopathic today. I’m with @The Moar You Know. Screw anyone who didn’t vote for Hillary.

  41. 41
    efgoldman says:

    @hovercraft:

    Tennessee is home to Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Chairman Lamar Alexander, a key player in the Obamacare debate.

    And according to earlier posts by Richard/David, he was already very squishy on repeal.

  42. 42
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MJS:

    Take a look at the latest statistics from Texas, where they basically closed down every clinic where women could go for low-cost prenatal care. The infant death rate AND the maternal death rate have both soared. The “pro-life” crowd literally only want to deny abortions. Nothing else interests them.

  43. 43
    efgoldman says:

    @🌷 Martin:

    but Chairman Ajit Pai wants to prevent that from happening.

    Pai is the prototype for the “Christ, what an asshole” caption.
    A view widely shared in the sane parts of DC.

  44. 44
    HinTN says:

    @jonas:

    Dennis isn’t really too good at thinking things through, is he?

    Implicit in that whole goat rope is that he’s from Tennessee. That answers that question.

  45. 45
    Vhh says:

    @Mikefromarlington: I would not be surprised if Polonium Putin was thinning the ranks. Not also that 13 Russian generals were suddenly fired a few weeks ago [this from Novaya Gazeta, prob not widely covered in English].

  46. 46
    efgoldman says:

    @jacy:

    I actually had no trouble at all with Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

    By far the best exchange plan for mrs efg in RI is BC/BS. Once we got signed up, it’s been smooth sailing.
    I had the AARP/United Health Medicare Advantage plan. I couldn’t switch to BC/BS plan fast enough. (Only two choices in RI). United Health just sucks, even though I pay more for BC/BS.

  47. 47
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    Anthem Blue Cross in California are known bad actors. They get a LOT of scrutiny by state regulators.

  48. 48
    Emerald says:

    @germy:

    She’s the Senator from New York. One of her constituents is Wall Street. Greenwald will smear her the same as he did Hillary.

    Plus, as a congresscritter she represented a conservative district, so no doubt has some bad votes on her record. That’s all Greenwald will need.

  49. 49
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    On the contrary, let’s return to the bad old days, on one condition:

    That every fucking congressman is forced to go with us back to them.

  50. 50
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @WereBear: Sorry WB, as a Canadian i just can’t fathom why people are not storming every government body for single payer [Medicaid?] health insurance.
    A former friend of my oldest daughter [who now lives in the states] had a Go Fund Me page to help pay for surgery due to her having tongue cancer. I found out about it after the fact, but I don’t believe I would have contributed. Relying on internet begging is not a health care plan, and I feel like the regular folks who contribute are being suckered by the US medical system.
    I guess I will never understand you guys.

  51. 51
    Baud says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: They had federal government health insurance in the bad old days.

  52. 52
    hovercraft says:

    @trollhattan:
    She’s been in the senate since ’09, I remember a senator who won in ’04 and 4 years later he was president. Granted she’s not Obama, no one is, but she has the next couple of years to show us what she’s got.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    Sorry WB, as a Canadian i just can’t fathom why people are not storming every government body for single payer [Medicaid?] health insurance.

    People don’t want other people to have it.

  54. 54
    Shell says:

    Croup? CROUP? As a preexisting condition???

  55. 55
    raven says:

    @JCJ: Our friend was diagnosed 5 years ago and declared cancer free this week.

  56. 56
    Ian G. says:

    The Schaeffers used to have FREEDOM though, and they no longer do. Their daughter could have been a hero like a soldier who died at Iwo Jima, but instead she’s a slave to Obama’s Maoist nightmare.

  57. 57
    Brachiator says:

    So, can someone point me to the best of the “Trump/Clinton no difference” screeds written by a purity pony riding pundit?

    Have any of these dopes issued an apology for their political stupidity?

  58. 58
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator: Nah, they are like Wall Street. They never apologize.

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @raven: Good news for your friend.

  60. 60
    Ian G. says:

    Full disclosure, I work for a health insurance company. And before you get your tar and feathers, please know that there is nobody in this company, least of all the CEO, who wants ACA to go away. I don’t know if we’re representative of the industry as a whole, but we don’t want the chaos that would follow after the money we’ve invested due to the law.

  61. 61
    Starfish says:

    @Brachiator: No. They were both equally bad, and the Stein/Johnson voters can continue to look down upon us all pretending they are magically excused from the outcome because they voted third party. But they are being really quiet about it lately.

    Greenwald was fanning the flames of liberal circular firing squad today by encouraging the Ellison v Perez proxy war for Sanders v Clinton voters. Stupid liberals keep falling for this nonsense.

  62. 62
    Roger Moore says:

    @Vhh:
    If CIA is really on the ball, they’ll start slipping information into the Presidential briefing that implicates people who are actually loyal to Putin. Doing so would be a nice threefer:

    1) Test to see if information really is going from Trump to Putin

    2) Potentially eliminate some loyal Putinists, weakening his position

    3) Make Putin question any information he gets from Trump

  63. 63
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Anthem Blue Cross in California are known bad actors.

    Which leads to an important point: a lot of the “national” insurance companies are effectively a bunch of single state insurance companies that market under a common brand. Their quality in one area doesn’t necessarily mean anything about how they’ll do in a different area.

  64. 64
    trollhattan says:

    @hovercraft:
    We’d kinda jumped from Gillibrand to Harris, who’s been a senator for a month. My sense is Gillibrand has far more national recognition as of today, but it’s way premature to consider either as an A-lister for 2020. With that said, the A list is pretty thin at the moment.

  65. 65
    The Moar You Know says:

    People don’t want other people to have it.

    @NorthLeft12:
    @Baud: Yep. Starts and ends there. People in the states are willing to do without almost anything just so long as someone they don’t like gets screwed too. We’re an awful society. Just nothing but rage and spite.

    Been like that my entire life too. This is not a recent development.

  66. 66
    MomSense says:

    This is why we fight! Thank you for this post, David.

  67. 67
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Ian G.: Thanks Ian, you answered a question I’ve had, which is what does the insurance industry think abut repeal. Are they seriously thinking the arm waving from Paulie Ryan is going to get them a better deal, or are they about sick from the current roller coaster ride?

  68. 68
    efgoldman says:

    @Emerald:

    Greenwald will smear her the same as he did Hillary.

    Who fucking cares? How many fucking votes does he move? Abybody that takes him seriously was already a Steiniac.

  69. 69
    hovercraft says:

    @Starfish:
    GG should be starved for attention, ignore him, he loves the attention, let the Bill Maher’s of the world blow smoke up his ass. He’s a libertarian not a democrat, he’s butt hurt that they were not able to take over the democratic party the way the Tea Party took control of their party.
    If you want a say in who we run and how we run our party you must be a member of the party, period.

  70. 70
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft:

    Once the epic battle for DNC chair is over, that’ll be the next big fight.

  71. 71
    VFX Lurker says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    Sorry WB, as a Canadian i just can’t fathom why people are not storming every government body for single payer [Medicaid?] health insurance.

    What Baud said up thread. Racism is a helluva drug.

  72. 72
    hovercraft says:

    @trollhattan:
    My bad, that’s what happens when you don’t read through to the end. Oops.
    But I agree, it’s way too early to pick horses yet.

  73. 73
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WereBear:

    One advantage of employer-based health insurance that no one talks about is that, if they so choose, an employer can go to bat for their employees and threaten to take their business away if the insurance company doesn’t do right by the employees. Unfortunately, this ability depends both on the size of the employer and their willingness to fight for employees.

    People who have individual insurance have no power, and often get hosed. If you haven’t already, I would contact your state department of insurance and file an official complaint. Since you’re in a blue state, they might actually be competent.

  74. 74
    🌷 Martin says:

    @efgoldman: He’s got some fierce competition in this administration for that caption. A bit pointless if you put it on everyone.

  75. 75
    trollhattan says:

    @hovercraft:
    You were misled based on my inability to ignore the next shiny thing that appears. In my defense, Friday!

  76. 76
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks, that is my next step.

  77. 77
    chris says:

    @NorthLeft12: Agreed. Some gun control wouldn’t hurt either…

  78. 78
    WereBear says:

    @NorthLeft12: We have Fox News. You, sensibly, do not.

  79. 79
    TriassicSands says:

    …and fear the loss of their dream home.

    …and fear the loss of their home.

    I find I’m much more sympathetic to the second expression. The loss of a home is catastrophic, while the loss of one’s “dream” home is a big disappointment.

    Out of curiosity, do others have a different response to these two expressions of loss?

  80. 80
    Brachiator says:

    @TriassicSands:

    Out of curiosity, do others have a different response to these two expressions of loss?

    Nope.

  81. 81
    efgoldman says:

    @TriassicSands:

    the loss of one’s “dream” home is a big disappointment.

    [Trying again, last try got eaten]

    To some people, a two-bedroom condominium in a decent school district is a “dream home.” Not everyone wants or aspires to a McMansion.

  82. 82
    chris says:

    @WereBear: Yes, we do, but I don’t think many people watch it. There was an attempt at a Canadian version, Sun TV from the Sun newspaper chain but it died due to lack of ratings. Sadly, there weren’t enough people to validate their BS.

  83. 83
    J R in WV says:

    @Ian G.:

    There’s a good point in there, Ian. Obamacare isn’t government health care, it’s all private insurance, policies issued by private insurance companies. The government’s part is making all the policies provide real insurance for everyone, no caps or limits, no preexisting condition BS, which was always just a way to deny coverage to customers who got sick.

    They also provide support to some customers, but it isn’t government insurance at all. And all those private insurance companies are allowed to rake off a healthy percentage of their billing as profit, hookers and blow as one B-J poster has said. The ones not minting money are the ones not competent, unable to properly manage their risk pool and set rates properly.

    If you aren’t any good at it, do you deserve to make money anyway? Not in my book, go broke, sell the data to someone who can take that data and those customers and make money at it.

  84. 84
    TriassicSands says:

    @efgoldman:

    Not everyone wants or aspires to a McMansion.

    I’m not saying they do. However, the loss of one’s home is the loss of something very basic, while the adjective “dream” implies that it may be more than a basic necessity. My point is, if I were going to make a case to elicit support, I would omit the word “dream.” The loss of one’s house is potentially much worse than the loss of one’s “dream” house since it could be the difference between being homeless and simply having a less desirable place to live.

    “I lost my job.” — Now, I can’t pay my bills.
    “I lost my “dream” job. — Now, I have to settle for a less desirable job.

  85. 85
    efgoldman says:

    @TriassicSands:

    if I were going to make a case to elicit support, I would omit the word “dream.”

    Did the word originate with the interview subject, or with the reporter?

  86. 86
    Jeffro says:

    So it appears that this Friday’s document drop was DHS saying there is no basis in fact for banning travelers from the seven countries …

    … memo to trump: it’s not just the media, we are all out to get you. Why as one member of the IC put it, “{you’re} going to die in jail”

    Sleep tight!

  87. 87
    TriassicSands says:

    @efgoldman:

    Did the word originate with the interview subject, or with the reporter?

    I don’t know. I was simply responding to the word choice, not the source.

    Again, my point was simply that just plain “home” would probably be more sympathetic than “dream home.” People can agree (mostly) that people deserve a “home,” while I imagine fewer would agree that people are entitled to their “dream home.”

  88. 88
    rikyrah says:

    @trollhattan:
    She was a DA
    Attorney General of the biggest state in the country.

  89. 89
    rikyrah says:

    @Kelly:
    I want my Soros $$$$

  90. 90
    TriassicSands says:

    @rikyrah:

    I want my Soros $$$$

    Hey, do you have George’s home phone (or personal cell number)? I’m running a little short this month and I’d be glad to demonstrate against the world’s biggest idiot for a little extra cash.

    If you see this, George, call me, please.

  91. 91
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kelly:

    Geez, and I didn’t even get reimbursed for my parking when I went to protest at LAX. I must be doing it wrong … 😂

  92. 92
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    So I see Crazy Uncle Donny’s latest is only have press confrances with news outlits that he can trust to filter what he says,

  93. 93
    trollhattan says:

    @rikyrah:
    Historically it’s a launchpad to the governorship, one Supreme Court seat and now, the senate, but visibility outside California is meager. One might make a stronger case for NY AG as a national platform. I like Harris, just want to see her build her portfolio and national recognition before committing to a presidential run. The way they chewed up Hillary was criminal and I dread the experience for the next woman who comes forward.

  94. 94
    Seth Owen says:

    @Roger Moore: This is standard CI practice. They are probably already doing this. There is undoubtedly all sorts of stuff happening that we will not find out about for years, if ever.

  95. 95
    JustRuss says:

    @TriassicSands:

    Out of curiosity, do others have a different response to these two expressions of loss?

    Yeah. I’ll be hunting for shelter soon, and “dream home” is not on my radar. It makes it sound like they’ll have to make do with just two bathrooms and granite-free countertops. The horror.

  96. 96
    TriassicSands says:

    @JustRuss:

    Thank you. I thought that response was obvious, but although only two others responded neither responded the way you did.

    Good luck in your search.

  97. 97
    J R in WV says:

    @JustRuss:

    Someone living in a cardboard box behind a dumpster probably dreams of a home that’s dry inside, and has running water. Don’t think they would be holding out for granite counters.

    You guys need to get a grip on real life! Dreams are different for everyone. Some dream of a house like J Coles, and some just need shelter, a roof, walls … geez. get a grip.

    Just because you have stupid dreams that no one needs doesn’t mean everyone does. JustRuss has a dream, of shelter. The nation is in the grip of crazed nazis and you guys are fighting about the word dream? Get away from me with that nonsense!

  98. 98
  99. 99

    The question arises as to why such business are allowed to continue operation, and why insurance company executives and employees are not prosecuted. It does, though, explain in part why it is that there is not more horror of fascists. Horrors are built into our society; not only in the health insurance industry, but in policing, and many other places as well. We are already desensitized.

  100. 100

    “While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” — Eugene V. Debs

  101. 101
    Bob Hertz says:

    I detest the Republican alternatives, but let me just put on record that single payer systems do deny treatments and create waiting lists.
    In America, you tend to get the treatments and then can be harassed into bankruptcy. Other nations leave off the bankruptcy.

  102. 102
    Texasdoc says:

    This thread is probably dead, but it touches on something that has made my week as an oncologist in Texas very depressing. In Texas, in addition to our “Perry/Abbott” gap in coverage due to lack of Medicaid expansion, we have the “Texas Catch 22”. If you are too sick to work and apply for SS Disability to have money to live, you make $50/month too much to qualify for Medicaid (because you have to practically be living under a bridge to qualify), and you don’t get Medicare for quite a while after being on disability. It seems everyone I saw this week who is newly diagnosed with cancer fits this scenario. Outside of the major urban centers, there is no charity hospital/charity care, so I have no place to send these people for treatment. The Republican health care plan strikes again–if you get sick, die quickly.

  103. 103
    Tehanu says:

    [Yes, I know the thread is dead]

    Croup? They denied cancer coverage to a child because the parents hadn’t mentioned she’d had croup?

    I wish I believed in hell. These insurance vampires would all be in it, suffering forever from the worst stages of all the diseases of all the people they cheated and lied to.

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