Today in Domestic Terrorism: Exceedingly Pale Edition

Oh look, its a fine example of the “Master Race”!

MYRTLE BEACH, SC (WMBF) – A man with connections to a white supremacy group was arrested in Myrtle Beach Wednesday after purchasing a gun from an undercover FBI agent, apparently intending to commit an attack “in the spirit of Dylann Roof.”

Benjamin Thomas Samuel McDowell, 29, from Conway, was arrested at around 5 p.m. Wednesday by the FBI, according to records from the J. Reuben Long Detention Center.

On December 26, 2016, McDowell posted to Facebook a message: “I love love to act what u think,” followed by a link to the Temple Emanu-El Conservative Synagogue in Myrtle Beach, according to court documents. Horry County Police indicated to the FBI that McDowell had established White Supremacy Extremist connections while serving in prison in South Carolina for various criminal offenses. He also had tattoos indicating an affiliation with these groups.

Dylann Roof, also a member of the “Master Race”, was actually referenced in Mr. McDowell’s planning:

According to the federal complaint document, on January 5, 2017, McDowell posted to Facebook an anti-semetic screed referencing Dylann Roof, which included the statement: “they should be Feasting on the enemy that stole their Heritage and their bloodline and trying to run us off of this Earth you can post pictures of f****** Viking and swords all the s*** you want to post if you ain’t got the heart to fight for Yahweh like dylann roof did you need to shut the f*** up…”

Well done FBI.

I’ll leave the penultimate remarks to Congressman Schiff (D-CA):

And, as always, we leave the final say to 18 U.S. Code § 2331

(5)the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended—

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

218 replies
  1. 1
    amk says:

    So Adam, Robert?

  2. 2
    Woodrowfan says:

    these white supremacists always look like they came from the end of the gene pool where the trash–candy wrappers, old band-aids, and cigarette butts–accumulate. Seriously, skim that end and use extra chlorine.

  3. 3
    Mike J says:

    Don’t forget the bomb threat at the Israeli consulate in Miami today.

  4. 4
    Corner Stone says:

    I think we need to start doing some racial profiling for these fucking terrorists. Any pasty, goofy eyed white bo with a bad bowl cut needs to have the no lube glove of love treatment done on him.

  5. 5
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: huh?

  6. 6
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Woodrowfan: Here you go:

  7. 7
    Feebog says:

    So, according to the story, an ex-con with nothing else to do but blame black people and Jews for his fuck ups.

  8. 8
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Robert Harward fiasco.

  9. 9
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike J: I had not seen that. That, of course, can’t be anti-Semitism because, as the President said today:

    “I hate the charge, I find it repulsive, I hate even the question,” he said, going on to cite Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s statement a day earlier at a joint news conference that “there is no greater supporter of the Jewish people and the Jewish state than President Donald Trump.”

    “You heard the prime minister, you heard Netanyahu yesterday, did you hear him? Bibi,” Trump said. “He said, ‘I’ve known Donald Trump for a long time,’ and then he said, ‘Forget it,’ so you should take that instead of having to get up and ask a very insulting question like that.”

  10. 10
    Hovercraft says:

    @Corner Stone:
    See this is why people keep saying white men are under attack. Just because this one guy was planning this attack, you want to blame all white men, or at least inbred pasty ones for his actions. This would never happen with any other group. When was the last time black men were considered suspect because of the actions of one man?

  11. 11
    NotMax says:

    trying to run us off of this Earth

    It’s not flat, dimbulb.

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: Ahhh. Yesterday Tom Ricks wrote that he expected VADM Harward to take the position and come in, clean house, restaff with his own people top to bottom, and establish a process modeled on that of LTG Brent Scowcroft’s when he was National Security Advisor. This would have been good. My guess is that there was significant pushback on this from within the current Presidential staff, specifically Bannon and his own national security lickspittle Seb Gorka. I think that the fact that this would also be Secretary Mattis’s 3rd former deputy/trusted agent in a significant position (Secretary Kelly at DHS, Gen. Dunford the CJCS, and now VADM Harward at NSC) also probably led to pushback from those same Presidential staff that do not want a competing power center/bloc to oppose them.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: BTW, that’s also the name of the cover band that VADM Harward formed when he retired with a bunch of other SeALs.//

  14. 14
    permafrost says:

    He looks like Pepe!

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: How do you know? Are you a scientist?

  16. 16
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @permafrost: Too pale.

  17. 17
    debbie says:

    Funny, he doesn’t look Aryan. Standards must be lower.

  18. 18
    jl says:

    Trump won’t see it on Fox and Friends, only source of non-fake news. So, it didn’t happen. No problem as far as he can see.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: Also, apparently, this:

  20. 20

    I will say it’s an odd feeling as a gay man to be fairly low on the list of targets right now.

  21. 21
    cynthia ackerman says:

    How will a Sessions DOJ parse this kind of case a year from now?

  22. 22
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Played one on stage once. Does that count?


  23. 23
    Mike J says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I will say it’s an odd feeling as a gay man to be fairly low on the list of targets right now.

    Washington won its case in the state Supreme Court against a florist who refused service to gay people. If it’s appealed to the USSC, expect to move up the list rapidly.

  24. 24
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman: so, now onto surge is winning, show it all to my ‘biographer’, petraeus?

  25. 25
    gene108 says:

    @cynthia ackerman:

    Entrapment by law enforcement of people just expressing themselves.

    But as dysfunctional as the FBI seems right now, I do not think individual departments actually give a damn about what higher ups say they should be doing, so they may keep trying to catch people, before they shoot shit up.

  26. 26
    NotMax says:

    @Mike J

    Wait a goldang minute. There are non-gay florists?


  27. 27
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And here I thought shit sandwich is a very librul lingo.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I can make a call for you…//

  29. 29

    @Mike J: yeah, I saw that. I hope it’s not one of those cases where either or both parties were out fishing for publicity/to make a point…

  30. 30
    gene108 says:

    Adam, what are the chances there will be boots on the ground in Syria sometime soon?

  31. 31
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @cynthia ackerman: I have no idea how they’ll summarize it, but I expect the US Attorney in that part of South Carolina will prosecute the case. It won’t be domestic terrorism as the charge, but neither was Roof’s.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Only if you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express the night before.

  33. 33
    Wapiti says:

    @amk: The US has something like 650 admirals and generals. Assuming they serve 10 years, that’s like 65 newly retired generals available every year. So why do DC people keep going to Petraeus, who has demonstrated bad judgement in multiple ways?

  34. 34
    JMG says:

    A Vice-Admiral (ret.) turning down this job and leaking why he won’t would seem to this lifetime civilian to be kind of a signal to serving senior officers. Adam, you know much more about this than me. Am I wildly wrong?

  35. 35
    cynthia ackerman says:



    I know some high-level ops folks in FEMA who say they will keep doing what’s right until told otherwise. My guess is that’s the case across the departments.

  36. 36

    @Wapiti: maybe, just maybe, because petraeus is an attention whore and most generals/admirals aren’t?

  37. 37
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Worked a temp job at a Holiday Inn for a month or so when they needed extra folks to clear up a backlog of maintenance tasks. Carpentry, tile work, painting, that sort of thing. Still have a master crash key, somewhere.

  38. 38
    Corner Stone says:

    @Hovercraft: Not even close to the same thing. Black males have been pretty much proven to be more dangerous, just on sight. That’s science, baby. You can’t argue with that.
    I am simply suggesting that pasty patsies with bad haircuts get the good ole once over. No big deal.

  39. 39
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: Unlikely for several reasons. 1) While the President could force the issue, the adjudicator for the necessary clearance is never going to approve GEN Petraeus, so this would be another self inflicted wound. 2) GEN Petraeus would also want to clean house and bring his own people with him to fill spots top to bottom – I know a bunch of those folks – there is no chance that the same Presidential staff that pushed back on this for VADM Harward would do the exact same thing. 3) GEN Petraeus has his own set of media contacts and followers. He will quickly overshadow all the other Presidential staffers. No one will want to talk to Gorka when they can have Petraues. Or his people. This further neutralizes Bannon and the shadow cabinet he’s building, including shadow National Security Advisor (Gorka). So not gonna happen. I expect that at some point Bannon will simply push Gorka forward and he’ll be acceptable to the President and the rest of the Presidential staff because of fatigue on this issue.

  40. 40
    hovercraft says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    “shit sandwich.”

    I think the entire administration is a shit sandwich. Anyone who go near it, let alone joins it is tainted.

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: Very military lingo.

  42. 42
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My guess is that there was significant pushback on this from within the current Presidential staff, specifically Bannon and his own national security lickspittle Seb Gorka.

    Two sources close to the situation confirm Harward demanded his own team, and the White House resisted.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    That’s a mugshot of a guy suffering from acute economic anxiety.

  44. 44
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My question was more directed to FBI.

    Will they even recognize the threat?

    Politically, I don’t see how lax treatment of pasty terrorists gets a pass, but that’s a wild card AFIK.

  45. 45

    @Baud: you know, if we’re going just by correlation, the surest cure for economic anxiety is melanin. Maybe we can give people injections.

  46. 46
    NotMax says:


    Shit sandwich doesn’t being to cover it. SmorgShitasbord.

  47. 47
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman: goatee gorka? could that sammich could get any shitter?

  48. 48
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    but, but…. Bibi says Trump is the greatest friend Israel has ever had!

  49. 49
    hovercraft says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Don’t get too comfortable, your time will come. They’re just starting with the old staples to fire up the troops, once it’s fully up and running you’ll be back on their radar. They have to have something to appeal to any non-racist haters, the gay will serve nicely. Sorry ;-(

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: If only it were that easy.

  51. 51
    Ajabu says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Looking at the “Aryan” specimen above, it appears that he has a couple of extra chins he could donate without much loss.

  52. 52
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: FTW

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You best pray nothing happens to Thiel.

  54. 54
    sigaba says:

    @Adam L Silverman: This Harward fellow sounds sensible. Any chance he’d run as a Democrat in a VA House riding?

  55. 55

    @Baud: Now you know the type of person you need to appeal to in 2020, Baud.

  56. 56
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @gene108: If you mean Conventional Army? Some time. I’ll probably write on this a bit tomorrow. It would be a terrible idea. Basically it gives ISIL credibility it doesn’t deserve and should be denied, but it also plays right into their apocalyptic doctrine/theology. The DOD planners, however, have to include the option in anything they send across for review because it is an option. Its not feasible, we’ve too much tail and not enough tooth in the Conventional Army and we know from OIF and OEF that too little of the Conventional Army, even after those two campaigns, does well in irregular/unconventional campaigns. Its not acceptable – we know from OIF and OEF that too little of the Conventional Army, even after those two campaigns, does well in irregular/unconventional campaigns and it gives ISIL what they want. Its not suitable: what we’re doing is already working. LTG Townsend, the current Combined Joint Task Force Commander made a statement a week or so ago that in his estimate another 6 to 12 months using the current strategy would lead to battlefield victory against ISIL. What the planning really needs to shift to, what the President really needs to be considering, is how to win the peace once we do achieve battlefield victory.

  57. 57
    sigaba says:

    @amk: Gorka’s official title is “Holo-Cosplayer”

  58. 58

    @hovercraft: honestly I think that one of their plans is to say, being gay (and white) is ok now–join us!

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Wapiti: He’s cultivated a lot of the news media. He’s a celebrity general.

  60. 60
    billcoop4 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: As another gay man, yeah, it does; but that may just be my WASPy privilege showing, too (damned Mayflower ancestry!).


  61. 61
    debbie says:

    No one will want to talk to Gorka when they can have Petraeus.

    Then I’m a newfound Petraeus fan.

  62. 62
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: No problem. Assholes love me.

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JMG: You are correct.

  64. 64
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Also too, Turkey holds the Incirlik card.

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: I give up. You win. Fine, you’re a scientist.

  66. 66
    Mike J says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ve already seen articles saying their Supreme Court nominee loves gay people so don’t you worry about anything.

  67. 67
    Corner Stone says:


    No problem. Assholes love me.

    I don’t remember you ever asking me.

  68. 68
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Pew Presidential Poll – Feb 7 thur 12


    I didn’t think people would get so tired of all the winning so quickly.

  69. 69
    billcoop4 says:

    Is Seb Gorka a Star Trek or Star Wars name? I lose track.


  70. 70
    Eric S. says:

    Obviously he was violence threat. He hasaid 4 names.

  71. 71
    hovercraft says:

    @Corner Stone:
    You should send that comment to FOX stat! That kind of insight would get you a regular gig as an expert on crime and the inner cities. My only note would be for you add in something about single mothers and reliance on government, otherwise, very good.

  72. 72
    Ajabu says:

    I was always told re: shit sandwich & income
    The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.

  73. 73
    XTPD says:

    @amk: “Satan sandwich” is very librul lingo. “Shit sandwich” has never been a partisan term, although it doesn’t go far enough in describing this administration — more like “sucks shot gunned shit-smeared Satan sandwiches.”

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @hovercraft: I know one of the NSC Directors. Not sure if he’s a holdover at this point. Have known him for years. He previously held the same position under the Bush 41 Administration (if I’m remembering correctly). My guess is he took the position because he’d done it before and he’s a professional who didn’t want a hack filling it if he said no.

  75. 75
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, have you seen a list of the six staffers who were walked out for failing security today? All I can find is the scheduler, Wiles, who I never heard of but was clearly a “buddy” hire.

  76. 76
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Nancy Pelosi ‏@NancyPelosi

    Robert Harward’s decision to not take over General Flynn’s old job is the latest evidence that the Trump WH is falling into utter disarray.

    588 replies 1,985 retweets 5,205 likes


  77. 77
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L> Silverman

    (rushes to Amazon to order a lab coat)


  78. 78
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Thanks. I was at the gym when the news started breaking. Hadn’t seen any coverage. So nice to know that my analytical instincts are correct.

  79. 79
    Tenar (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Do you hear a funny sound? Sounds like screaming… endless screaming. JCHIAHB, Gorka????!!!!!

    ETA FYI this is Tenar Arha. (Ugh, I really have to get around to fixing my nym)

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: They do that with every group. You aren’t like those people, you are special.

  81. 81
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Hovercraft: Um…in the last hour?

  82. 82
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Mika Brzezinski ‏@morningmika

    This White House is showing a lack of moral compass.. It feels like the ship is sinking. Unsustainable.

    808 replies 799 retweets 3,571 likes

    And that’s what his friends are saying

  83. 83
  84. 84
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @cynthia ackerman: They will. Despite the wackiness that we’ve come to know and love from the New York Field Office, these guys know their business. And they take the counter-terrorism mission seriously – domestic or foreign. No Supervisory Special Agent in Charge (SSAC) of a Field Office wants a synagogue or mosque or church or shrine or ashram or stupa or community center to get blown or shot up on their watch.

  85. 85
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman: oh, I don’t know, man.

    Obama’s stimulus – a shit sandwich
    Obamacare – a shit sandwich
    Obama ws reforms – a shit sandwich

    If it talks like a duck and all that.

  86. 86
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: I have had past dealings with him.

    I will not say more. Feel free to read between the first and second line of text.

  87. 87
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What the planning really needs to shift to, what the President really needs to be considering, is how to win the peace once we do achieve battlefield victory.

    Because President Draft Dodger will certainly heed the advice of the actual military on the ground and in the Pentagon, right? As opposed to president Bannonazi, who will make the decision.

  88. 88
    NotMax says:

    Manafort, Flynn, Gorka, Anton, Bannon, et al.

    “I see red people.”

  89. 89
    Baud says:

    @amk: I miss that from my daily Kos days. And “Kabuki.”

  90. 90
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sigaba: I’ve never met him.

  91. 91
    efgoldman says:


    that may just be my WASPy privilege showing, too (damned Mayflower ancestry!).

    Didn’t they shun you in 1620?

  92. 92
    hovercraft says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Lucky you, my best shot is taken, he’s already filled his middle aged strident black woman slot with Omarosa. I probably would have ended up fired, I lack the nob polishing gene that she displays. SAD !

  93. 93
    dr. bloor says:

    My favorite part of the FBI agent’s statement on McDowell was where he had to switch to his mom’s landline while talking to the undercover FBI guy, because his cell phone was out of minutes, and his mother wouldn’t let him use hers.

    Truly a physical and cognitive exemplar of the “Master Race.”

  94. 94
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @billcoop4: Earth: Final Conflict.

  95. 95

    @Baud: they don’t do it with the melanin-enhanced, not any more at least.

    Honestly a certain set of well-enough-to-do white gays would be easy to pick off now. ‘Republicans’ still hate us but Trump and Bannon and Zombie Andy Breitbart (PBUH) don’t care, and they’re pushing people like Milo and Thiel for a reason.

  96. 96
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: that’s the quote I was trying to remember! Thank you!

  97. 97
    jl says:

    Second CA GOP Congresscrud caught lying about his very sad and unpleasant townhall.
    And again, it was the cops who contradicted his lies.
    McClintock is a cynical operator, Rohrabacher may also be insane, so not sure the motive for his lying this time.
    Rohrabacher claimed violent protestors attacked the local police.

    Police Offer Very Different Account Of Protest Incident GOPer Blamed On ‘Mob’
    ” Officer Jennifer Marlatt of the Huntington Beach police department characterized the incident as an accident, and denied that she was transported to the hospital. ”

  98. 98
    Baud says:


    I hope you will be my middle aged strident black woman.

  99. 99
    dr. bloor says:

    @efgoldman: You’ve never been aboard a British sea-going vessel, eh?

  100. 100
    amk says:

    @Baud: is that cesspool still there? no, don’t tell me.

  101. 101
    hovercraft says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:
    Nuh uh, Rassmussen says:
    Approve 55
    Disapprove 45

    People love him, according to the honest polls!!

  102. 102
    Kryptik says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It’s almost literally impossible for white supremacist “lone wolves” to ever commit something that can be considered terrorism:

    Tennessee man who plotted New York mosque attack won’t face terrorism charges

    A Tennessee man won’t face terrorism charges for plotting an attack against an upstate New York mosque — and attorneys claim it’s because federal terrorism statutes almost exclusively focus on foreign extremists.

    Robert Doggart was arrested in April 2015 after authorities discovered that he had been trying to recruit people to burn down a mosque in “Islamberg,” a self-named, predominantly Muslim community near Hancock, according to court records.


    According to the Patriot Act from 2001, prosecutors can only charge a defendant with domestic terrorism if he or she had the intension to “intimidate” or “coerce” a civilian population, or influence the “policy of a government” to affect the conduct of government by “mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.”

    Contrastingly, Amatul-Wadud claimed, the requirements are less stringent for pursuing terrorism charges if the alleged act has a foreign element to it, for example ties to international terror networks such as ISIS or al-Qaeda.

  103. 103
    Mike J says:

    The Pentagon hasn’t found any documents indicating that Mike Flynn received authorization to accept money from a foreign government before traveling to Moscow in 2015 for a paid Russian state TV event, according to a letter from the acting Secretary of the Army.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: No. Technically it should be confidential. What the reporting indicates is that the issues were with their SF 86s. So they either answered something incorrectly – as in they stated no to something that should be yes – or they withheld information where they needed to include it. Or both. This is why we do these screenings.

  105. 105
    amk says:

    @Baud: man, you never stop campaigning, do ya?

  106. 106
    EBT says:

    @Baud: They shyed away from us trans fairly fast.

  107. 107
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Not surprised. We are at a point where wealthy white gays feel safe, and so are free to explore their whiteness.

  108. 108
    dm says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Unless a dog needs wagging, I imagine.

  109. 109
    efgoldman says:

    @dr. bloor:

    You’ve never been aboard a British sea-going vessel, eh?

    Nope, and my people got here roughly 280 years after the Mayflower

  110. 110
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: While hope is not a strategy, while there is life, there is hope.

  111. 111

    @Mike J: that would be the one with Putin and Stein, yes?

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @EBT: But … Caitlyn Jenner??

  113. 113
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: De nada. Did you get my response to his email.

  114. 114
    EBT says:

    @Baud: She showed up early and deadbeat donnie didn’t really seem to care or be aware; but the drums of ban the trans are being banged loudly with renewed zeal.

  115. 115
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks. I find that reassuring.

    But still a fraught situation similar to current IC pushback, and not something we should think of as ultimately positive.

  116. 116
    hovercraft says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I get it, that’s the dillema facing every professional, do I stay and try to limit/mitigate the damage, or leave on principle. I can see both sides, but in the end, I don’t know that there is a way to limit/mitigate, this crew is so ignorant that they don’t realize the damage they are doing, and they don’t believe anyone not in the inner circle who tries to explain it to them. Think about the Bush administration and 9/11, that was a group of people with real knowledge and supposed expertise, and they ignored the Clinton warnings about Al Qaeda, they discounted everything they were warned about and look how that turned out. This lot, there’s no telling how bad they’ll mess up.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kryptik: Given that I actually posted the relevant statute at the top of the page, which is separate from the PATRIOT Act, that’s bullshit. Legally and factually. The relevant portion is here:

    According to the Patriot Act from 2001, prosecutors can only charge a defendant with domestic terrorism if he or she had the intension to “intimidate” or “coerce” a civilian population

  118. 118
    NotMax says:


    By 1621, after arrival of the Fortune, Plymouth colony had 66 men and 16 women.

    So maybe not all that fast…


  119. 119
    CarolPW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The florist is less than a mile from me, and I used to shop there occasionally. In my recollection, one member of the couple had been buying flowers there for quite some time, and I think it was weekly before he got engaged. When he asked if they would do the flowers for their wedding he was refused, He was very hurt and angry that they had been taking his money for so long and then crapped on one of his happiest moments so brought the suit. If anyone was trying to make a point by the transaction it wasn’t the gay guy, he was just looking for flowers for his wedding.

  120. 120
    lollipopguild says:

    @hovercraft: I love your comments in this thread-laugh out loud funny.

  121. 121
    hovercraft says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Only if you watch listen or read the dishonest media ;-)

  122. 122
    dr. bloor says:

    @billcoop4: I think you’re looking for something in the “Taken” franchise.

  123. 123
    EBT says:

    @NotMax: Knowing what I know about conservatives (My first love was a gay man in texas who felt LCR were RINOs), I am sure I would be even more popular with them than I am with the wonktariate. But only in secret.

  124. 124
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @hovercraft: In this case I know what he’s the director of and we’re damned lucky he’s in that position right now.

  125. 125
    Felonius Monk says:

    @dr. bloor:

    ruly a physical and cognitive exemplar of the “Masturabatory Race.”

    Fixed it. You’re welcome.

  126. 126
    lollipopguild says:

    @dr. bloor: According to Churchill the Royal Navy was “Rum, Sodomy and the Lash”

  127. 127
    Mnemosyne says:


    I guess the first mistake was deciding that conservative states were the red states. We could have saved everyone a lot of trouble if the MSM had decided that the conservative states should be blue.

  128. 128
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    A couple of people on FB are saying they’ve heard John Bolton is under consideration for NSA. Thoughts on that?

    (I know Trump supposedly said Bolton’s moustache was a disqualifier for SoS but perhaps he’s relaxed his standards a bit. Desperate times call for desperate measures.)

  129. 129

    @EBT: well the important thing is there are folks out here in SF fighting the good fight of shaming people for wearing those awful trans-exclusionary pu$$yhats.

  130. 130
    Corner Stone says:


    According to Churchill the Royal Navy was “Rum, Sodomy and the Lash”

    I am totes down with at least two of those three.

  131. 131
    Elie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What the planning really needs to shift to, what the President really needs to be considering, is how to win the peace once we do achieve battlefield victory.

    Seriously, Adam — can this administration even breathe in and out in terms of planning ANYTHING? Do they have the right people in place? Does Trump listen to anyone and then allow them to follow through? Is the word “PLAN” a complete stranger to this administration? I just sense from reports that there is such constant chaos and upheaval among different power centers, that its difficult to set any foundation for anything. Am I wrong about this? Doesn’t this ultimately affect and infect the military charged with carrying out any “plan”.?

  132. 132
    lollipopguild says:

    @Corner Stone: Have you picked out your “safe word” yet?

  133. 133
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You really are surrounded by awful people.

  134. 134
    NotMax says:

    @Corner Stone

    For whatever it’s worth, in measurement a butt is equal to two hogsheads.

  135. 135
    Mnemosyne says:


    And I’m assuming that the shop owner got all pissy because the guy wanted to be treated as a real customer and not as the token gay guy she tolerated coming into her shop.

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It would be an absolute mess. He’s got no experience in running anything like the Interagency.

  137. 137
    amk says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: bolton would shave off every hair just to be near hair furor.

  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Wait, trans people hate cats? This was not a phenomenon I was aware of. //

  139. 139
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Elie: The military knows its job and how to do it. The problem will be that the policies developed will be both bad and contradictory. As a close friend and former colleague liked to say: “policy cannot ask of strategy what policy cannot provide.” In short: if your ends/objectives make no sense, then even good ways and means aren’t going to fix things for you.

  140. 140
    Lyrebird says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Said it better’n I could, though I was thinking “in a blinking of an eye” more than a whole hour…

    @Hovercraft: I wish I could find this site again, maybe it’s on the wayback machine… someone post-nine-eleven compiled a list of white folks (including an Irish woman) who have hijacked planes. Were I clever with CafePress I would make “Profile Me!” t-shirts with those images, maybe also with the Oklahoma City bomber and so forth.

    ETA: I think it was created (the website I mean) by a politically active Arab American.

  141. 141
    efgoldman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It would be an absolute mess. He’s got no experience in running anything like the Interagency.


  142. 142
    Mary G says:

    Darrell Issa won’t have an in-person town hall meeting because he said it would cost the government too much money. So groups have gotten together to rent a hall and pay for everything, and are challenging him to show up.

  143. 143
    amk says:

    from beebs

    Mr Petraeus, a celebrated former four-star general, retired as CIA director in 2012 after it emerged he had given top-secret material to his biographer, with whom he was also having an extramarital affair.

    He is still serving two years’ probation after his conviction for mishandling classified information, and would need to notify his parole officer if he wished to move to Washington DC.

    karma bitchez.

  144. 144

    @Mnemosyne: IIRC, 1980 was when the current Red/Blue thing came into being, Carter states were Red and Ford states were Blue in 1976.

  145. 145
    EBT says:

    @Major Major Major Major: If you round up fare from Sacramento to Oakland and back I will happily apply a corrective influence to your garbo friends.

  146. 146
    dr. bloor says:

    @lollipopguild: Not necessarily in that order.

  147. 147

    @Baud: is that not the human condition? My awful people just happen to be super lefty.

  148. 148
    jl says:

    @Elie: Probably worse than that. It’s like during WWII FDR only listens to nutcase fascist radio news and hears that everything the US does ends up like a combo of Pearl Harber/Kasserine Pass. So FDR decides to send in the Hussars and give the Huns a taste of the lance!

  149. 149
    Baud says:

    @Mary G: Wait, town halls are taxpayer funded???

  150. 150
    Lyrebird says:

    @EBT: Hiya – I was reading too fast & thought you were talking about the Wonketariat. You’re funny and willing to lampoon yourself at least to some extent, so I bet you’d be a hit (maybe you are already) over at Wonkette, too!


  151. 151
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Potemkin presidency.

  152. 152
    hovercraft says:

    Just tell me where and when to report.
    I’ll be the most strident angry black woman ever, and I have a secret whitey tape.

  153. 153
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: True. The world is a miserable place outside the Juice.

  154. 154
    EBT says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yep, Red was incumbent party and Blue was opposition party until 1996 when Bill decided he wanted to be Blue anyway because it liked it to red, also brand consistency.

  155. 155
    EBT says:

    @Lyrebird: I post under the name Jennifer R at wonkette silly.

  156. 156
    efgoldman says:


    Wait, town halls are taxpayer funded???

    Who do you think pays for their district offices, staff, and travel?
    I believe, but am not sure, that there are specific budgets appropriated for those purposes.

  157. 157
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Lyrebird: This what you’re looking for:

  158. 158
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: Can you do that snapping fingers thing? I know it’s nineties, but I love that.

    I have a secret whitey tape.

    Cool. I’ve been looking for a secret whitey.

  159. 159
    NotMax says:


    The cake is a lie.


  160. 160
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: I don’t know. I assumed it was a campaign thing.

  161. 161

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I don’t know what that’s about. Half my friends are TG, and they are perfectly happy with the hats and the women’s marches and generally just want to beat Trump to death with a hammer.

  162. 162
    sigaba says:

    Critic’s Notebook: Trump’s Press Conference Echoes Death Throes of Watergate

    On Thursday, President Donald Trump’s press conference to announce Alexander Acosta as his new nominee for labor secretary turned into an extended psychodrama, the likes of which we haven’t seen since Richard Nixon during the death throes of Watergate.

    It’s frowned upon for members of the psychiatric profession to deliver armchair analysis of public figures, but Trump is not making that temptation easy to avoid. During his rantings and ravings, you expected white-uniformed figures to burst in with a straitjacket and a rubber net.

    Also anyone else see Shep Smith? He was pissed.

  163. 163
    efgoldman says:


    I’ve been looking for a secret whitey.

    I’m a secret Whitey.

  164. 164
    CarolPW says:

    @Mnemosyne: Don’t know if he was thought of as a token gay or if she had no idea of his orientation. Although given the length of his time as a customer it’s hard to imagine she didn’t know. Maybe the staff is more accepting but the owner, who probably would have been the one approached for wedding arrangements, is the bigot.

    I’m in the red part of Washington, but the anti-gay affliction plaguing some parts of the country doesn’t seem to play so well here. One of my lesbian students told me the dating scene sucked, but all my straight male and female students said that too.

  165. 165
    NotMax says:


    with a hammer

    >And sickle.

  166. 166
    EBT says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Major X4 has several cis (het?) (white?) friends who are trying to stand up for trans people by cisplaining.

  167. 167
    Baud says:

    @sigaba: Isn’t Shep always the one decent guy they have?

  168. 168
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mary G:

    For some weird reason, my Democratic House rep is having his town hall at 3:30 in the afternoon on a work day. It’s Brad Sherman, so maybe he’s trying to avoid having to talk about the natural gas leak?

    I may show up at Schiff’s 7 pm town hall instead. That one should be fun.

  169. 169
    efgoldman says:


    I assumed it was a campaign thing

    Town Halls, like office hours are “non-political.” Open to all (theoretically); Sometimes they are much less formal – Gaby Giffords was having one outdoors in a parking lot when she was shot.

  170. 170

    @Frankensteinbeck: @EBT: yeah, though they at least have the common decency to be gay/bi. I blame tumblr.

  171. 171
    Thru the Looking Glass... says:

    @NotMax: Shitsunami?



  172. 172
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: Not any more.

  173. 173

    @NotMax: I thought it was the mustard.

  174. 174
    sigaba says:

    @Baud: He has that reputation. But even by the standards of decent MSM newsman he was fucking livid.

  175. 175
    Lyrebird says:

    @EBT: Oh excellent, at least I could be *correct* while reading too fast & thinking too slow!

    Major^4 has contact info for me. If y’all set up a Bus Fund for EBT To Attend a San Fran BJ Meetup, I’ll chip in a little.

  176. 176
    EBT says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Again, I would gladly tell them to their faces they are both wrong and how it’s kinda shit to speak for me when I haven’t asked them to.

  177. 177
  178. 178
    efgoldman says:


    Not any more.

    Have you ever seen me?

  179. 179

    @Mnemosyne: Hmmm, it’s at GCC. I probably won’t have a car by then. SAD.

  180. 180
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: I can’t recall if I’ve seen your photo from a meetup.

  181. 181
    Lyrebird says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the link! That has way more than I’d seen previously, though IRA gal wasn’t there. I’m surprised more movies haven’t been made about some of the women who hijacked helicopters to try to spring their husbands/boyfriends out of prison…

  182. 182

    @efgoldman: I believe we’ve seen a picture of you.

  183. 183
    GregB says:

    Harward didn’t want to head an NSC staffed by a drunken homeless looking white nationalist, A Fox News talking head, Col. Kurtz from Apocalypse Now and the reanimated corpses of Curtis LeMay and Jefferson Davis.

  184. 184
    hovercraft says:

    The snap is the easy part, it’s the neck roll, that takes practice, and I’ve had 49 years of that.
    This video encapsulates all the black woman stereotypes I’ve mastered.

  185. 185
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yes, that was the line taken in our student newspaper too. Facepalm.

  186. 186
    hovercraft says:

    Yes in spite of the villagers attempts to present Chris Wallace, Greta (yes I know), Bret Beir, and others as straight news people, Shep is the only real journalist over there.

  187. 187


    Harward didn’t want to head an NSC staffed by a drunken homeless looking white nationalist,

    Right… looking…

  188. 188
    efgoldman says:


    I can’t recall if I’ve seen your photo from a meetup.

    Somehow I’m always behind someone else, or in the can, or both. Old fart of mystery, that’s me.

  189. 189
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: I didn’t realize you were that black. Glad to have you on my team.

    ETA: Can you get me a meeting with the CBC?

  190. 190
    NotMax says:


    Recall seeing one and thinking, “Oh, my. If that’s his happy face&#8230.”


    Seriously, though, good-looking facial hair.

  191. 191
    NotMax says:

    @Not Max


    “Oh, my. If that’s his happy face….”

  192. 192
    debbie says:


    You’ll need quite a lot of stank face in that position.

  193. 193
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I had a vague recollection of Greta from her CNN days, when AFAIR she wasn’t too terrible. Never watched her on Fox (because never watched, or watch, Fox), although I do remember that when she signed the contract years ago, they gave her a face lift which, I think, didn’t quite do what was intended. Meow. Saw her very occasionally on other network news shows, as a clip with a major guest, but not her actual show. Now she is on MSNBC every day and while I haven’t seen that program either, I have heard bits and pieces of it on radio while in the car. She has a terrible, annoying voice and when she comes on I usually change stations right away.

  194. 194
    efgoldman says:


    “Oh, my. If that’s his happy face….”

    I don’t have a happy face.
    Unless my granddaughter is involved.

  195. 195
    Chris T. says:

    @NotMax: One hogshead is 63 (US) gallons (just under 52.5 imperial gallons). I had not heard of a butt as a measure, but (ahem) Merriam-Webster says: “any of various units of liquid capacity; especially : a measure equal to 108 imperial gallons (491 liters)”. So either the 63 US gallon figure is wrong, or one butt is not exactly two hogsheads.

    Aha: the issue here is beer vs wine! A hogshead of wine is 52.5 imperial gallons, but a hogshead of beer is 54 imperial gallons. Worse, the wine measure varies depending on the type of wine, according to Wikipedia.

  196. 196
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Potrumpkin

  197. 197
    different-church-lady says:

    @Corner Stone:

    According to Churchill the Royal Navy was “Rum, Sodomy and the Lash”

    I am totes down with at least two of those three

    What have you got against rum?

  198. 198
    Baud says:

    @different-church-lady: Hey, you’re back. Missed you.

  199. 199
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @amk: I would be willing to bet that it began in the military.

  200. 200
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Lyrebird: To quote the Bard:

    Love is not love which alters what alteration finds.

  201. 201
    NotMax says:

    @Chris T.

    Yeah, it’s enough to drive one to drink.

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Extra cookies tonight deserved for that.

  202. 202
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @different-church-lady: Good to see you here. We were all worried. I even tried emailing back on November 10th to make sure you were okay, but given the email address you use to post here, that didn’t work.

  203. 203
    Lahke says:

    Sacramento area has another Dylann Roof wannabe who trashed a mosque and wrapped bacon around the door handles; had social media love for Roof and the killer in Quebec City. Twist is that it’s a 30-year old woman. Haven’t figured out how to bring the link using my phone but go check out her photo–looks like the perp at the top may have found true love.

  204. 204
    hovercraft says:

    Chair of the CBC, Martha Fudge and I are tight, she’ll give you a meeting.

  205. 205
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: i think what you meant to say was “Oh, no, you fell off the wagon”?

    I quit the internet cold-turkey for two months. Got a lot done in that time. Today’s my first day unlurking. (Damn you, Corner Stone, I never could resist a good set-up…)

  206. 206
    Lyrebird says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Nice. With Shakespeare and the mariachi-fusion band in the next thread, some needed inspiration.

  207. 207
    Baud says:

    @different-church-lady: I understand. I’ve been tempted to quit myself. I’m glad to hear you were productive. I hope you won’t regret returning to the hive.

  208. 208
    different-church-lady says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I appreciate the thoughts. I emailed Cole a “so long and thanks” the day after the election, and said let folks know I’m okay if they ask, but I figure it just got lost in the piles of mail he gets.

    Yeah, I was pretty rattled election night, but I got it sorted out – actually came out of it with some deeper insights into the causes of my depression issues. I came to the conclusion that the internet was bad for me and decided to detox. I was thinking folks might get spooked by my unexplained disappearace, but cold-turkey was the only way I could feel safe from the inevitable increase in web toxcicity.

  209. 209
    Corner Stone says:

    @different-church-lady: I am called to serve in many ways. Unwavering, I answer that call.

  210. 210
    EBT says:

    @Lahke: Here is one. I hadn’t heard of this until you mentioned it.

  211. 211
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @different-church-lady: Just glad you’re okay. Next time send the email to me so it doesn’t get lost.

  212. 212
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @different-church-lady: Welcome back.

  213. 213
    MomSense says:


    Hey you! So glad to see you.

  214. 214
    different-church-lady says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Aye aye. Hopefully there won’t be a next time of that sort.

    If I presently go absent again, it will be because I regained my discipline, so no need to worry. You can look for me at Copley Square this Sunday, loaning my number to the science rally.

  215. 215
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @different-church-lady: I know someone who has limited here twittering to 0ne hour in the morning and one in the evening. She had gone cold turkey for a while post-election as self defense. It is a way of putting a toe back in.

  216. 216
    Miss Bianca says:

    @different-church-lady: you’re back! O, frabjous day! Missed you!

  217. 217
    J R in WV says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Well, – uh…. maybe. Top, or bottom? That is the question on two of them.

    Back when we were in the Navy, and I was nearly out, and on limited duty from injuries, I was staying at a friend’s place off base. We would do fresh squeezed oranges and rum for breakfast.

    Then, before you could know it, I was discharged, and from Key West to WV in February! YEEAAAHHHHH Cold! It took a couple of years before I could go winter backpacking up in the Cranberry Backcountry. Regular wintery-mix was like torture that first winter back up north.

  218. 218
    Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire) says:

    I am in no way related to this asshole.

Comments are closed.