I don’t want to alarm anyone, and I’ve not found any reporting on this happening anywhere else, but one of our readers/commenters sent me the following. I’ve removed a lot of the personal references so as not to identify the reader/commenter unless he/she wishes to do so in the comments.
I’m curious if you have heard anything like the story I will relate below; this information was given to me by a close friend who is intelligent, observant, and not given to paranoia.
Dayton, OH protest in downtown area, Friday evening 2/3/17 – general theme was to protest the recent immigration EO issued by POTUS. About 1000 or so people attended the protest, and the group was marching – peaceably – along downtown streets, with appropriate police oversight and no major agitation or violence. My friend noticed two guys who hurried forward through the crowd toward the front and began to face the oncoming crowd while firing high-end cameras as fast as possible (flash enabled). He noticed that the two men had face masks similar to the ones seen on some of the violent participants in the DC protests on Inauguration Day; obviously, people on our side wonder just who those folks in DC were, so the resemblance struck a chord in his mind. Each of the men had large backpacks, which seemed out of character for the event, although certainly they may have contained photographic gear. My friend was near one of the men, so he approached the guy who was kneeling and taking pictures. He tapped the guy on the shoulder and calmly asked the guy if he was from the area, from a press group, etc. The man said nothing, but looked wary and simply shook his head slowly. My friend wanted to elicit some kind of spoken response from the man, so he asked if the man spoke English; more slow head-shaking in return. He asked the man if he (my friend) could take the other man’s picture, held up his phone to do so, only to have the guy get quite close to my friend and begin firing his flash-enabled camera as close to my friend’s face as he could get. Since it was dark, the constant flashing seemed intended to prevent my friend from seeing the man and taking a picture of him. The man began to back away, all the time shooting his camera at my friend, but facing him as he retreated. Eventually, the man melted into the crowd, and neither man was seen again (by my friend). My friend did get two photos of the guy, but the quality is poor and I’m not sure the pics would be useful anyway given the face mask (and stocking cap) the man wore.
This seems very strange behavior, even if the men were from some sort of press group (doubtful). My friend told this story to me in hopes I would tell him he’s crazy, but I was unable to reassure him. Have you heard of anything like this occurring at any gatherings around the country recently?
Other than this report emailed to me, I have not heard anything like this in regard to the recent marches and demonstrations and assemblies. However, there is a standard tactic of shaming and extortion that has been used by some groups over the years. Usually this involves trying to take pictures of the people entering and the license plates of the cars they are driving to women’s reproductive health clinics, adult entertainment emporiums – both strip clubs and video stores – in an attempt to determine who the people are and to then extort them by threatening to out them to their employers, colleagues, family, and/or friends. Or in some cases to just skip the extorting part and just out them.
Given how image identification programs, including Google’s, have made doing this type of sleuthing – using a picture to identify someone based on their or other’s social media posts – I think everyone needs to be aware that this happened. This is especially so given how certain right wing and alt-right provocateurs are known for doxing individuals or selectively editing footage in pursuit of their own objectives. I highly recommend that if you see this going on you immediately take your own photos (if possible without putting oneself in danger) of the individuals doing this – don’t ask for permission, just do it, make a note of their approximate height, build, eye and hair color (if exposed), and their clothing and the masks they are wearing, as well as the direction they move off in and immediately contact the police. Especially if they are repeatedly setting off their flashes in a strobe fashion to prevent people from photographing them. Given that this can trigger epileptic seizures, you may have a criminal complaint on one’s hands.
Stay alert, stay alive! And stay Frosty!
debbie
I belong to a couple rabidly anti-Trump FB groups, and I’ve seen similar comments. I’d expect James O’Keeffe to resurface some time soon. This sounds like him or his froggy mates.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Yep. Him, Rage Furby, both. Didn’t want to name them in the posts because we don’t need any extra trolls.
Jack the Second
Wasn’t this common in Vietnam-era protests?
I recall a professor of mine saying that he had his picture taken by someone at a march once. He thought it was because he was coincidentally wearing a suit for unrelated reasons, and that made him look like someone who could be blackmailed instead of just a stinky hippy.
Adam L Silverman
@Jack the Second: I do not know. Before my time.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Sorry. Go ahead and delete my post; I don’t want to be responsible for anything like that.
BruceFromOhio
So if I swat the guy, and he presses charges, my lawyer can get his name and ask him what he was doing there, yes?
? Martin
There’s a documented effort for Trump supporters to put up antifa petitions and pose as reporters in order to capture personal information and use that to dox individuals. It would all be quite alarming if the antifa folks haven’t been running that same playbook for years.
I think the lesson here is that individuals shouldn’t stray too far from the mainstream on protest. It’s in the margins where things get ugly. And if you see black bloc folks in a protest – report them. You have no idea which side they’re on, but you can be certain they’re there to stir up trouble which you will inevitably get sucked into if you aren’t careful.
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
It definitely sounds like JO’Ke.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: No, its fine in the comments.
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
This is [flexes biceps] BALLOON JUICE. We can handle a few trolls.
debbie
That camera-flashing seems like what was done to the Newsweek reporter (not mentioning any names).
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes, I’ve witnessed the handling!
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
Yes. I haven’t been following him. Has there been any recent news?
I did think that was one of the scummiest, wormiest things that anyone could do. Apologies to actual worms and actual scum for maligning them.
? Martin
Adam, if you could rescue me from moderation…
And good news from the People’s Liberation Front of California.
We’ll turn the refugees that other states are afraid of into an economic power. California will not be complicit in this madness.
Adam L Silverman
@? Martin: Already done.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
He hasn’t mentioned it in awhile, so his attorney must be on it.
sempronia
huh. Some relatives of mine were at the Los Angeles Women’s march and said that some creepy guy put his phone right up in their faces, took a picture, turned, and dove into the departing Metro train. They were not pleased. That’s the only such incident I’ve heard of.
trollhattan
@? Martin:
Hey, McCarty’s my guy! His main interest is education so I’m not surprised to see his name on the bill.
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne:
Or elevating it a bit, the new Secretary of Education’s brother is always looking for new gigs (not him personally, of course, but minions).
wuzzat
15-odd years ago when I lived in the Dayton area, they still had a pretty strong undercurrent of Klan activity. It would surprise me not at all to find that the alt-right have settled in.
SiubhanDuinne
@debbie:
I hope so, and I hope it works out well for him. I have a nephew with epilepsy, and I can’t think of anything more heinous than to deliberately try to trigger a seizure.
schrodingers_cat
I just spoke to my aunt and uncle who are visiting my cousin in Florida. She doesn’t want to return to the United States to visit her daughter anymore. Too old for this drama she says, she is leaving for India tomorrow.
Brachiator
google anti-facial recognition gear.
An example here.
and here
? Martin
And I’m not sure if this is new or not, but it suggests increased scrutiny against at least certain individuals entering the country.
? Martin
Clever approach by the EPA anti-scientists.
Basically, it’s a ‘data transparency’ bill designed to suppress most forms of research which cannot be publicly released. One thing the EPA would be doing in Flint is to monitor lead levels in residents and compare that to water readings. Since the individual health data can’t be published due to HIPAA, this legislation would block the EPA from even collecting it. And since the correlation can’t be replicated without poisoning another city, even the non-private health data can’t be collected. But on it’s face it’ll be sold as ‘we believe the EPA should release data to the public so the public can review how environmental policy is shaped’.
Gravenstone
A modest suggestion if someone sticks a camera in your face (and thus enters your reach) – smear vaseline on the lens. Won’t permanently damage the device so no destruction of property charges, but it will fuck it up for the near term until they detail clean it. If they are pros, they’ll just swap to another lens. If it’s a one off, they’re out of action.
Handy small tube size.
SiubhanDuinne
Since it seems to be an Open Thread, I’m going to go wildly off topic before I explode with laughter. A FB friend from high school has just posted that he is singing the title role of “The Mikado,” whereupon I said something about “I seem to remember you as Nanki-Poo in the h.s. production.”
Mind you, that was 56 years ago.
Next thing I see is a comment from a girl I simply DETESTED, who wrote “Yes, and I was his Yum-Yum.” Nyah nyah nyah.
I feel every minute of 17 years old right now. So funny.
waysel
Adam Silverman, I don’t know if you saw this I posted yesterday, but any thoughts/ advice?: asking about threats to protest groups in Florida: Dear Patriots across the United States,
Congressman Matt Gaetz is working closely with the Congress and President Trump to dismantle the Washington DC based unconstitutionally funded centralized fascist EPA –
He will also be working to shut down the unconstitutionally funded Dept. Of Education –
Of course all these DC offices are 10th Amendment violations and purely nothing more than a redistribution of wealth of your tax payer money flowing out of your state to slimy worms stealing your money in Washington DC.
The states are able to manage their own environments and their own schools without Washington DC interference.
Congressman Matt Gaetz is TODAY working with President Trump to start the process to build the WALL across our southern flank.
Congressman Matt Gaetz is also working to block once again all potential terrorists from entering our nation from terrorist nations. Of course these same nations Trump blocked also have blocked Israelis from entering their nations – while Muslim 5th graders are learning how to kill us in training camps – A Bush appointed judge is letting them back in our nation –
RIGHT NOW A COMMUNIST THREAT AGAINST CONGRESSMAN MATT GAETZ HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AND A RAPID PROTECTION RESPONSE IS NOW UNDERWAY
At noon on Thursday February 23rd Congressman Gaetz will be speaking at Grover T’s BBQ restaurant at 5887 US 90 – Milton Florida to discuss his plans to help return this nation back to Constitutional rule –
The Communist Democrat Party of Escambia County has set up a protest against our Congressman – – 57 Marxists have signed up to disrupt Matt Gaetz event in FACEBOOK.
I need all patriots – Tea Party members – Bikers – Conservative groups – real Americans at Grover T’s BBQ by 11 am to counter and protect Congressman Gaetz from the vicious Communist party group that is planning on disrupting this event.
I will be mustering up the militia forces at 1030 am –
I need all patriots in attendance to protect Congressman Gaetz from any potential disruption of his speech. Concealed carry permit holders most welcome – don’t forget your ammo. We support the right of protesters to protest but we must prepare a defensive posture for Congressman Gaetz –
These Marxists have shown a propensity for violence at their protests across this nation – we will be there with the Sherriff to ensure force protection of our Congressman !
Senior Chief ******** ******
Surface Warfare Air Warfare
US Navy retired
Santa Rosa Militia
This was posted by this guy on his Facebook page. Authorities have been contacted, but this seems very bad, and the Whitehouse wants to eliminate domestic terrorism investigations into white RWNJ groups. I redacted his name today. He’s not well known, but who knows about tracking these days?
? Martin
@Brachiator: Won’t hold up for long. The algorithms will quickly outpace those efforts.
Brachiator
@? Martin:
Data Transparency.
“Call for Mr Orwell on Newspeak Line 2!”
? Martin
@Gravenstone: My dad always suggested eye black. Comes in a chapstick-like tube, pretty easy to aim. I’m still discovering all the reasons why he accumulated that type of information…
Betsy
In some states, it is unlawful to cover one’s face in public. This was an anti-Klan measure.
For example: § 14-12.7. Wearing of masks, hoods, etc., on public ways.
No person or persons at least 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood or device
whereby the person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter,
be or appear upon any lane, walkway, alley, street, road, highway or other public way in this
State. (1953, c. 1193, s. 6; 1983, c. 175, ss. 1, 10; c. 720, s. 4.)
§ 14-12.8. Wearing of masks, hoods, etc., on public property.
No person or persons shall in this State, while wearing any mask, hood or device whereby the
person, face or voice is disguised so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter, or appear
upon or within the public property of any municipality or county of the State, or of the State of
North Carolina. (1953, c. 1193, s. 7.)
In states with such laws, perhaps the attention of law enforcement can be directed to persons such as Adam describes.
misterpuff
Tweety beating same horse again today: America elected Fascist Ignoramus and no institution (especially the Judicial) should stand against him…No Take Backs.
Woodrowfan
@wuzzat: growing up just south of Dayton I remember Klan and Bircher signs along the country roads south of Springfield
El Caganer
Sessions is in as AG. Big surprise.
amk
the racist is the ag is the new black.
JordanRules
@El Caganer: This is so messed up in so many ways. Goddamnet America!!!!!!!
SiubhanDuinne
@El Caganer:
I wasn’t paying attention to the vote. Did anyone break ranks?
Ohio Mom
@Woodrowfan: Yes, the Klan has deep roots in southwest Ohio, and Indiana too. That was a surprise to me because I’d always thought of the Klan as a southern thing, and Ohio and Indiana as the eastern edge of the Midwest.
Brachiator
Joe Manchin of West Virginia was the one Democrat to vote affirmatively to confirm the nominee.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Just in: Sessions confirmed. (Not the first to note it, I see. Sorry for the repetition.)
chopper
@SiubhanDuinne:
Manchin, that’s it.
waysel
@Brachiator: Jesus X Christ!
Baud
@Brachiator: Interesting that Manchin felt the need to pander to racists but Heitkamp did not.
Lurking Buffoon
This sounds like the tactic used by Scientology when Anonymous decided to protest them everywhere. Incidentally, that tactic is what made Guy Fawkes masks so popular… aside from V for Vendetta. Since anonymity is against the grain when protesting government actions I’m going to second Brachiator’s suggestion at 23.
And ugh, Sessions confirmation.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Brachiator:
Say it ain’t so, Soulless Joe.
raven
In Nixonland Perlstein writes about “anti-VietnamWar activists” in Champaign-Urbana getting postcards from the Minutemen saying “The crosshairs are on your back”. I don’t remember if it was here or some other online chat with him but I asked “how did you know abut that, I thought only those of us who were there did”? He said someone he knew told him.
Timurid
Venal fuckery at demonstrations? Anything goes now, with Sessions as the new Commissar of the KKKGB.
In other news, fuck Joe Manchin with a rake.
Ruviana
@SiubhanDuinne: We studied The Mikado when I was in fifth grade! I have a student writing a paper on Western perceptions of Asia in the 19th and early 20th centuries and I told her about The Mikado. She’d never heard of it!
Hal
My future prediction is that Sessions as AG is on a collision course with President Obama and Eric Holder’s future voting rights efforts.
Kryptik
So how long until BLM officially replaces white supremacists on the Extremist Watch List?
Also, repeating the general theme: Fuck Sessions and fuck Manchin.
H.E.Wolf
@El Caganer:
No surprise. A hell of a fight, though; and on to the next one. I’ve already called my Senators to ask for their “No” vote on the odious Tom Price (anti-abortion, anti-gun safety).
And since we were talking about Harriet Tubman earlier today, here’s my favorite Harriet Tubman quotation:
“If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If there’s shouting after you, keep going. Don’t ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.”
We will, Harriet. We will.
sharl
@Woodrowfan: Growing up in east Dayton in the 60s and 70s – a mostly segregated working class white part of town – the racism was common and acceptable with little self-awareness or shame. I don’t remember any organized efforts around it, like a local KKK cell or whatever. That doesn’t mean those groups werent there though, only that members would have been quiet about it (those racists back home weren’t entirely shameless, even though such “decency” had to be forced on them from the wider society).
Also as a reminder, in Beavercreek just over the county line in Greene County (east of Dayton/Montgomery County), in August 2014 John Crawford was gunned down by police at a Walmart because some asshole called 911 saying he was pointing an (unloaded) rifle at other shoppers, including children. At least as of summer, civil lawsuits were still proceeding on that.
Sab
@Ohio Mom: The Klan was in eastern Ohio when I went to college there in the seventies.
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
Lipstick would probably work well, too. ETA: And silly string might work as a slightly longer-ranged anti-camera device.
SiubhanDuinne
@chopper:
Fuck him. Not totally unexpected, but still, fuck him.
Betsy
Worth an annoying copy and paste on Facebook:
Some of these more important than others. You know which are which.
1. Don’t use his name;
2. Remember this is a regime and he’s not acting alone;
3. Focus on his policies, not his orange-ness and mental state;
4. Keep your message positive; they want the country to be angry and fearful because this is the soil from which their darkest policies will grow;
5. No more helpless/hopeless talk;
6. Support artists and the arts;
7. Be careful not to spread fake news – check it;
8. Take care of yourselves; and
9. Resist!
Keep demonstrations peaceful. In the words of John Lennon, “When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight! Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”
When you post or talk about him, don’t assign his actions to him, assign them to “The Republican Administration,” or “The Republicans.” This will have several effects: the Republican legislators will either have to take responsibility for their association with him or stand up for what some of them don’t like; he will not get the focus of attention he craves; Republican representatives will become very concerned about their re-elections.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
I sang Pitti-Sing in a local TV production in 1972. Was originally cast as Katisha (a part I would love to do someday), but the gal who had originally been cast as Pitti-Sing had a much better voice for Katisha, so we switched roles.
Yarrow
Worth repeating. This is key. Tie them together. They are one and the same.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
And how amazing that she wasn’t aware of The Mikado. It was so obviously part of the Victorian counter-culture, but famously riffing off British perceptions of “exotic” Japanese culture. Make sure she watches a DVD of Mike Leigh’s Topsy-Turvy.
ETA: FYWP, it’s TOPSY, not TIPSY. Goddammit.
A Ghost to Most
@Roger Moore:
Western NY is also thick with racists and right wing extremist groups. I know this because my family is deep in those groups. Timothy McVeigh grew up. In that environment as well
My family connections got me recruited by the League of the South in MD when they were forming in 94-95. Awkward end to that dinner.
donnah
I live in Dayton, born and raised here. We had a huge turnout, over 3000 people, for the Womens’ March. No reports of violence or retaliation. My husband and his sister were there and said it was an amazing experience.
I can’t speak to the event on Feb 3. Dayton is a mixed community with a wide variety of races and religions. I expect there are some KKK types but I haven’t ever seen any activity of that kind since I’ve been here. Honestly, Dayton is a diverse and busy city and I’ve always felt that we are a fair-minded community. We are currently trying to maintain our status as a Sanctuary City, but it’s unclear as to how long we can hang onto that.
Dayton’s not perfect and we have our share of ugliness, but I felt like I needed to stand up for those of us who live here and like it.
rikyrah
About Senator White Citizens Council becoming the Attorney General….
Just brace for the worst.
But, don’t ever
and I mean EVER
purse the phucking lips
to tell me that I have to understand Dolt45 voters.
Not today.
Not tomorrow.
Not even if Jesus returns.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Wow. Once a mean girl, always a mean girl I suppose. Facebook has allowed all new avenues to pursue grudges and be an A-hole it seems.
Adam L Silverman
@waysel: I had not seen this. If the local police have been notified, other than being smart in how one goes to the meeting, and any protests associated with the meeting, there’s not much else that one can do. It is Florida though and at some point one of these nuts will try pushing around the wrong person. That person will, instead of being pushed around, stand his or her ground. At which point the nuts in question will learn that “God made man, Samuel Colt made men equal” doesn’t just apply to them. Here’s my recommendations for safely/securely peacefully assembling:
https://balloon-juice.com/2017/01/15/peaceful-assembly-and-personal-security/
Also, I’m not sure what Senator Whitehouse, D-RI, is up to here:
SiubhanDuinne
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
I honestly haven’t thought of her in well over half a century, but the minute I saw her name I was all “Oh you little beeyotch.” No, her name isn’t Heather, but it might as well be.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruviana: Did you get my email?
JordanRules
@rikyrah: Thanks. I’m having a hard time finding words right now. SMDH
Luckily I am going to a protest at the AZ Capitol tomorrow morning so I can lean into action. So thanks for the post Adam.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@SiubhanDuinne:
You know, she must have led a small, grubby life to cling so desperately to high school fame.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
Reread. That’s “the Whitehouse” not “Senator Whitehouse”.
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
FUCKER!
Adam L Silverman
@donnah: The post wasn’t intended to dump on Dayton. Its where the person who sent it to me lives.
Ruviana
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ll tell her about it, she’s finding the different examples fascinating.
Ridnik Chrome
@El Caganer: Once De Vos made it, I knew they were all going to make it. WASF…
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: I’m aware, it was just too good not to make the play on words.
Yarrow
@efgoldman: I prefer to use the word “Traitor.”
efgoldman
@Baud:
Fewer than 2.5% of ND is African American, and for now it’s enjoying a petro boom. 18% of WV is listed as “in poverty”
Gravenstone
@Adam L Silverman: Pretty sure that’s a misspelling in the original diatribe. Reference to the White House and Trumps’s intention to convert the anti-terrorism task force into one focused solely on “Islamic terrorism”. Thereby taking their collective eyes off of (and giving a private wink and nod to) the good ol’ boy domestic variety of terrorist.
eta: allow me a preemptive, “tracking”
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Gravenstone:
Or, if somebody sticks a camera in my face, I can beat the fuck out of them until they can’t breathe.
Problem solved.
Ruviana
@Adam L Silverman: Yes! It was helpful as now I have some directions to point interested students in.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Adam L Silverman:
Dayton, huh? Well, let me take a flyer here…
Okay, that’s all I got. Just wanted to make a bad sports-related jokelet.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
Assume she is paying a lot of attention to Puccini’s Madams Butterfly.
efgoldman
@H.E.Wolf:
Not to mention the insider trading bullshit, which he himself put in his financial disclosure.
Origuy
@Ohio Mom: I grew up in southern Indiana. In the twenties, the Klan basically ran state government. Even in the 60s, I remember Klan activity. Martinsville, between Indianapolis and Bloomington, was a sundown town. When Bloomington high schools would play MHS, the black cheerleaders wouldn’t go and the players would run to the buses after the game. That was in 1974.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruviana: I’m going to send a second email in just a couple of minutes, but I wanted to make sure the first one got there.
mike in dc
Jefferson Beauregard Bedford Forrest Sessions III confirmed as AG.
Ruviana
@SiubhanDuinne: She was going looking more at pop culture but I will mention it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
Also, please urge her to seek out the CD of Chinoiserie, by pianist Jenny Lin — as much for the insightful liner notes and selections as for the actual performances.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=24252
(As you can possibly tell, this subject is one of my hobby horses. I would love to see her final paper once it’s submitted, if she would be comfortable with that.)
Gravenstone
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Enjoy your stay in jail., counselor.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
One of my senators. Perhaps you should edit the sentence to “the Orange House” for clarity.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
Well, in its day, The Mikado was pop culture. And Butterfly was familiar to a great swath of European humanity of all classes.
Ruviana
@Adam L Silverman: I’ll keep an eye out.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman:
I know this was an incorrect reference, but its doubly incorrect, as Sheldon Whitehouse is the junior Democratic Senator from the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, TYVM.
jharp
“firing his flash-enabled camera as close to my friend’s face as he could get.”
I live in a “stand your ground law” state.
Can I shoot somebody for that?
How am I to know he isn’t going to shoot me after assaulting me with his camera?
efgoldman
@Yarrow:
No rule we can’t use two words.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I didn’t write the original sentence. I was playing on the White House being accidentally elided into the Whitehouse in someone else’s comment.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruviana: Should be in your inbox.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Tracking, I got the state wrong, will go back and correct it.
Ruviana
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ll ask her, it might make her focus a bit. It was my sense that G&S, who I love, fit into pop culture but they were entirely unfamiliar to her.
amk
Ruviana
@Adam L Silverman: Got it and I would love to. I’ll get back to you more substantively in the next day or two.
donnah
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, I know, I’m just seeing posts that made me want to defend Dayton a little bit.
efgoldman
@Ruviana:
150 years ago.
Nothing we would call “opera” or “classical” fits into US pop culture any more. And yes, I know the difference between G&S and actual opera.
I’m just old enough to remember when all the networks (NBC, CBS, Mutual) had their own symphony orchestras. Although by the mid-late 60s, the CBS/Columbia Symphony was whichever freelancers made the recordings in NYC or LA, and Toscanini’s NBC Symphony was long disbanded.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruviana:
“Pop culture” is such a fluid term, I expect she could include anything she wants to. But you’re right about her needing a focus. I understand; in all my research papers, I pretty much started with the kitchen sink and went from there. Just hated to omit anything. Fun as a researcher; less good as a scholar.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Gravenstone:
Feeling pretty frisky these days, based on what I’m perceiving.
Getting close to figuring out either emigration or piracy….
Baud
@amk: No difference between the two parties.
sharl
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, wasn’t my intention to dump on my old home town either. The Dayton area is – or at least certainly was – a mixture of cultures and people. But individual neighborhoods and enclaves can be very different, by race but especially by income. Oakwood and Kettering are a lot different from Dayton, and even within Dayton’s boundaries, Patterson Park is different from Eastmont (my old neighborhood) and those parts of east Dayton different from the neighborhoods off north Smithville Road, and – at least back when I was growing up there – “the West Side” was where the black folk lived.
When busing was instituted in Dayton Public Schools, there was a perceptible rise in tension. When it went from voluntary to mandatory (right after I had graduated H.S.), I heard reports from my younger brother than the tension became much higher back at good ol’ Belmont H.S.
There are other incidents I can list, but other than the police killing of Crawford over in Beavercreek, nothing terribly dramatic. If you were a black basketball coach taking a shorter drive home from practice, you could expect to be stopped in Oakwood (that happened). I haven’t been able to find it, but Jesse Taylor (formerly of Pandagon, long ago) told a harrowing story of his mom taking him to the dentist (he was 13 y.o.) in the Dayton area, and driving too fast in a mostly white neighborhood (they were running late), only to have a policewoman pull them over then draw her gun when mom and son didn’t react quickly enough for her liking. That story surprised me.
But then a school chum called our preacher a n*gger lover after a sermon where the preacher came out in support of civil rights legislation IIRC. I knew the kid’s dad, so I knew where that sentiment originated; my shock was that someone would use a swear against a preacher (that’s where I came from).
Then there was the time my dad extinguished a small burning wooden cross left on the front lawn of our neighbors – a black professor (from Malawi) married to a white American-born woman. I assume that marriage was what riled up one of the neighborhood bubbas (I heard many years later that someone ‘fessed up). But those two moved to a much nicer house in a much nicer neighborhood just a couple miles away; success is the best revenge.
Anyhoo, different neighborhoods, different people, different experiences. But I have little doubt that, now as then, riled up young racist bubbas are certainly lurking about in the area.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Very true, but a hundred years ago — roughly the period covered by Ruviana’s student — the dividing lines weren’t nearly as sharp.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruviana: No worries and no rush.
efgoldman
@Baud:
Orangemandyas doesn’t use email.
Ruviana
@efgoldman: @SiubhanDuinne:
Yep to both of you and my student is like 21. She’d also never heard of the racist WWII cartoons I used to see on Saturday mornings as a kid.
SiubhanDuinne
Another off-topic, but a happy one, I think:
Last night, I mentioned that an artist friend of mine had quickly put together a t-shirt design with “Nevertheless, she persisted” on the front. Well, in the first four hours she sold enough to be able to donate a hundred bucks to the ACLU out of her profit. And it was her birthday. I’m sorry that Sessions is the AGOTUS, but love that the meme has taken off the way it has.
Baud
@efgoldman: How presidential.
JPL
@efgoldman: I miss email use among officials. The tweets are causing me distress.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: Congrats to your friend.
efgoldman
@JPL:
I never listen to him speak, and I don’t go to his tweetler eliminations.
J R in WV
Cristo,
Be careful out there.
Best of luck wherever you decide to go. Get trained and get a carry permit, no one can win a fist fight against a gun fighter.
Morzer
Noting this for the record:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/chaffetz-meeting-trump
It’s clear that GOP are incapable of and uninterested in providing honest, competent, pro-American government. I don’t believe that decent people should consider them a legitimate government.
Baud
@efgoldman: Same here.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Yeah, thanks, I’m happy for her.
Tom DeVries
From my experience I can report that both non-press, up-to-no-good photographers and provocateurs were part of the Vietnam era protests. No press photog I’ve ever known would hide his/her face. Any demonstrator with a covered face is probably trouble. Watch yr back. Ask for ID. Take pictures.
Gravenstone
@Morzer: There was another line in that interview that absolutely pissed me off. While the entire thing is an exercise in Chaffetz’ (and general Republican) hypocrisy, what really floored me was his claim that funding for embassy security was a major focus. This of course being the same fuck knob who proudly bragged about cutting embassy security funding in the weeks leading up to Benghazi.
Chet Murthy
@efgoldman: As much as I am appalled by Manchin and his offspring, I try to repeat to myself that he’s better than an R in the same job. WHEREAS DiFi? Nuh-uh. She better toe the fricken’ line. I’m not excusing Manchin. Just …. well, we’re fighting from a position of weakness, so I can understand some of our more “hangin’ out there” members being weak. But the ones in our strongholds? They need to be *strong*.
Chet Murthy
Adam, I -thought- that private persons had the right to -not- be photographed? Or am I mistaken? Just wondering if …. one were to scream “don’t take my picture” (and then rip the camera out of their hands and start stomping it), one could use the defense that the photog was warned and did not comply ….
Not that it really matters to me: when the day comes, they won’t need to know my face, they can just check the color of my skin.
Raven
@J R in WV: don’t pay any attention to that bullshit
tobie
My first reaction to the report from Dayton, OH was that the photographers were Ruskies, doing the dirty work for Donald of tracking who is at protests. Yes, this is paranoid but I’m not willing to dismiss the fear entirely. Maybe I jumped to this conclusion because of the question of whether the photographers even spoke English. Until we know the extent of the Russian’s involvement in the election, we’ll wonder how much agitators at marches are actually there to help Donald through the offices of his good friend Vlad.
amk
abc news wantonly missing a r there.
wwc = p t barnum proved right. every fucking time.
Adam L Silverman
@Chet Murthy: I’m not a lawyer and I think the laws vary state to state. So hopefully one of our legal eagles will weigh in.
Miss Bianca
@Gravenstone: so, add Vaseline to my “protest prep kit”, then?
ETA oh, and Chaffetz is a total tool. I have come to despise him heartily. I think he wins “most punchable GOP face for me.
amk
@Miss Bianca: spray paint might do more permanent damages to them camera lenses.
sharl
@Chet Murthy: The Wikipedia entry for Right to Privacy shows that legal issues on such matters are very chaotic. They actually have been for a very long time, but the advent of the internet and social media, and the introduction of affordable digital cameras have really riled the hornet’s nest.
There is – or used to be – a website that showed mug shots of people who had been arrested and booked. Not convicted, only taken into custody. I hope that thing has been or will be shut down, because that could screw things up for job seeking and other things, even if there was never a conviction or guilty plea. Once the photo is out there, it’s out there.
But like Adam, I’m not a lawyer, so will defer to an expert on this.
efgoldman
@Morzer:
They all graduated from the same smarm school. Chapstick was magna cum loser.
efgoldman
@Chet Murthy:
Yeah, but it’s about 90% sure that DiFi will be replaced by another, more progressive Dem. Manchin would probably be replaced by a RWNJ TeaHadi.
I didn’t like the vote, either, but the racist asshole was going to be confirmed, regardless, and Manchin votes w/the Dems by far the majority of the time.
60% is better than 0%.
laura
@trollhattan: He’s my guy too, and a neighbor! Yeah Kevin.
sharl
@sharl: Ah, found the Jesse Taylor story: A Young Black Man, Being Late
JordanRules
@Chet Murthy: I was just reminded that Manchin’s daughter is under scrutiny as the CEO of the EpiPen controversy. Well, alrighty then.
Doug G
@donnah: Thank you for standing up for us Daytonians – I’m the reader/commenter Adam refers to in his post. Thanks to all for the suggestions on handling this kind of thing. Thanks in general to the excellent group that runs this joint and all of you (lovely) snark-monsters that inhabit the depths of the comment section!
A Ghost to Most
Who knew Jake Tapper had a spine?
Fywp ate the link to rawstory
zhena gogolia
@Betsy:
Good advice.
Doug G
@tobie: Your initial thoughts are the same as MY initial thoughts and those of my friend, the subject of this post.
? Martin
@amk: Pretty sure Japan has similar laws as the US toward receiving personal gifts.
jl
@Betsy: Thanks for that advice. Copied it for future reference.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Miss Bianca:
Most punchable face, huh? Well, it’s subjective, to be sure. Cruz and his perma-smirk is right up there along with the dead-eyed Cotton.
jl
Like a few other commenters, my first guess it was a local group of Trumpists (they love to harass people), or local cops or sheriff. But we have to be ready for Trump getting really upset and trying to sic the feds on demonstrators. We know certain FBI offices are very pro-Trump, so some offices of some agencies might go along. And Trump is keeping his private security.
The crumb bum Chaffetz said today that Trump threatening stores for dropping the Ivanka Trump’s clothing line was ‘no big deal.’ Taken alone, no it isn’t, just like Truman losing it and threatening to punch the music critic who dissed his daughter was no big deal, taken alone as an isolated incident of a president doing something stupid over something not really very important. But I don’t remember Truman’s press secretary coming out later and saying that anyone who didn’t like the way his daughter sings was disloyal. With Trump is part of a big, a huge, a very big and classy, pattern.
Sab
Re Chaffetz, what is up with the LDS community. I hardly ever agree with them politically, but they did used to be about integrity and honesty and decent values. He seems like a complete slime ball who keeps getting re-elected. Who are his constituents?
jl
@Sab: Every group has its slime balls. And looks like a prize specimen landed among the LDS.
Edit: remember McMullin is LDS too, and he seems to be a pretty up front type of person. Mitt… ehh… well, every group has a lot of mushy middle too.
Omnes Omnibus
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I dated a Flyerette for a while..
Miss Bianca
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Chaffetz just hits me where I live. Between his persecution of HRC, his hastily-walked-back attempt at selling off public lands (because wow, WHO KNEW that Republicans might hunt or fish??), and now this “nothing to see here” bs with regard to Trump’s manifold transgressiosn, he’s the Platonic form of partisan hackery to me.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: @SiubhanDuinne: Tommy is a rock opera.
Keith Earle
@SiubhanDuinne: I was Pooh-bah back in the day (High School).
efgoldman
@Omnes Omnibus:
Only because they chose to call it that. It could just as easily have been called a musical.
Regardless, opera as a genre is no longer a part of American pop culture.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman:
Oh, I agree completely. I was just yanking your chains.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@sharl: I’ve been researching the rights of photography for semi-professional reasons. The basic rule is, if you’re out in a public place you can be photographed(most photographers will ask first). Pictures on private property are up to the property owner. You can take photos of someone’s property if you’re in a public space, i.e. the sidewalk. LA has some interesting laws, you need a photography permit to take “professional” pictures on city property(including sidewalks). To take pictures of the Hollywood Sign and publish them you need permission from about 4 different entities.
Mug shots are public record, so they can be published.
sharl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Thanks for that info. Sounds like the rules are very locale-dependent.
Regarding mug shots, after thinking about it I kinda-sorta figured they must be legally public, otherwise they wouldn’t be so ubiquitous on the internet. But do you think they should be public? If someone is ultimately convicted, or pleads guilty, I guess I could see it, but for someone cut loose without charges, or found not guilty, it seems like a potentially damaging injustice to have their mug shot in circulation to the world.
Omnes Omnibus
@sharl: Arrest records are public record as well. The photos can bring forward witnesses for both prosecution and defense.
sharl
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@sharl: Often happy to help.
Emily B.
This post just reminded me: A guy with the lower part of his face covered was taking pictures of people at an anti-Trump march in NYC back on November 12. It struck me as weird. Lots of people were taking pictures with phones, but he seemed to be focusing on faces and was using an actual camera, not a phone.
I put up my hand to block his lens. He got annoyed and said, “I’m not taking your picture,” then moved away.
DanDDan
That story was about me – I’m the “friend”. I’ve been on the road and only now have access to my computer. The guy that composed the message did a very good job considering he’d heard the story, on the phone, once. I’m attaching the photos I got. Two are the raw images, two were enhanced by my daughter who is a midwife (point being, they’re not likely enhanced as well as they could be).
Worth noting, I tried quite hard to get the guy to say something, culminating in my asking him if I could take his picture – I wanted to listen for an accent – I got a distinct impression I was gonna hear Russian. When I asked him permission to take his picture – he put the flash in my face and pulled the trigger. You can see in the photos (one in particular) that he was still pointing the camera directly at me when he had backed up 8′. You can’t see that he was still firing the camera, with flash, full speed, presumably trying to prevent the photos I got.
raw1
raw2
enhanced1
enhanced2