The Antideficiency Act

I’ll just leave this here. I’ve bolded the relevant portions.

Antideficiency Act

This act prohibits federal agencies from obligations or expending federal funds in advance or in excess of an appropriation, and from accepting voluntary services.

  • The Antideficiency Act prohibits federal employees from
    • making or authorizing an expenditure from, or creating or authorizing an obligation under, any appropriation or fund in excess of the amount available in the appropriation or fund unless authorized by law. 31 U.S.C. § 1341(a)(1)(A).
    • involving the government in any obligation to pay money before funds have been appropriated for that purpose, unless otherwise allowed by law. 31 U.S.C. § 1341(a)(1)(B).
    • accepting voluntary services for the United States, or employing personal services not authorized by law, except in cases of emergency involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. 31 U.S.C. § 1342.
    • making obligations or expenditures in excess of an apportionment or reapportionment, or in excess of the amount permitted by agency regulations. 31 U.S.C. § 1517(a).

    Federal employees who violate the Antideficiency Act are subject to two types of sanctions: administrative and penal. Employees may be subject to appropriate administrative discipline including, when circumstances warrant, suspension from duty without pay or removal from office. In addition, employees may also be subject to fines, imprisonment, or both.

  • Reporting Requirements

    Once it is determined that there has been a violation of 31 U.S.C. §§ 1341(a), 1342, or 1517(a), the agency head “shall report immediately to the President and Congress all relevant facts and a statement of actions taken.” 31 U.S.C. §§ 1351, 1517(b). The reports are to be signed by the agency head. The report to the President is to be forwarded through the Director of OMB. In addition, the heads of executive branch agencies and the Mayor of the District of Columbia shall also transmit “[a] copy of each report . . . to the Comptroller General on the same date the report is transmitted to the President and Congress.” 31 U.S.C. §§ 1351, 1517(b), as amended by the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2005, Pub. L. No. 108-447, div. G, title II, § 1401, 118 Stat. 2809, 3192 (Dec. 8, 2004).

    OMB has issued further instructions on preparing the reports, which may be found in OMB Circular No. A-11, Preparation, Submission, and Execution of the Budget, § 145 (June 21, 2005). The report is to include all pertinent facts and a statement of all actions taken to address and correct the Antideficiency Act violation (such as administrative discipline imposed, referral to the Justice Department where appropriate, and new safeguards imposed). An agency also should include a request for a supplemental or deficiency appropriation when needed.

    What if GAO uncovers a violation but the agency thinks GAO is wrong? The agency must still make the required reports, and must include an explanation of its disagreement.

    Additional Information

    For more information on the Antideficiency Act purpose, history, and requirements see Chapter 6, Availability of Appropriations: Amount

  • Submitting Antideficiency Act Reports to GAO

    Agency heads and the Mayor of the District of Columbia must provide a copy of Antideficiency Act reports to the Comptroller General of the United States at the same time they are submitted to the President and Congress.


    Send PDF reports to GAO will confirm receipt by e-mail.


    Send paper copies of reports to:

    • Antideficiency Act Reports
    • Comptroller General of the United States
    • U.S. Government Accountability Office
    • Room 7165
    • 441 G Street, NW
    • Washington, DC 20548


    For more information about submitting Antideficiency Act reports to GAO, contact Edda Emmanuelli Perez, Managing Associate General Counsel, at or 202-512-2853.

    For more information about the Antideficiency Act requirement, see
    Transmission of Antideficiency Act Reports to the Comptroller General of the United States B-304335, March 8, 2005

    For general inquiries about the act, send an e-mail to

236 replies
  1. 1

    so this means people can’t waive off a salary in order to avoid an FBI background check…?

  2. 2
    Roger Moore says:

    If the president does it, that means it is not illegal.

  3. 3
    Elmo says:

    Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.

  4. 4
    Mnemosyne says:

    Would Jeff Sessions prosecute? Probably not.

    Laws are useless if no one enforces them.

  5. 5
    Yarrow says:

    @Roger Moore:

    If the president does it, that means it is not illegal.


  6. 6
    JPL says:

    If a person is working without a salary, but has paid staff, would that change the equation?
    What if the person who isn’t getting paid, has other benefits? Does coffee count?

  7. 7
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Exactly. The Constitution is a piece of paper if we do nothing to uphold it.

  8. 8
    maurinsky says:

    IANAL so I don’t understand what this means. Can we get some context?

  9. 9
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @maurinsky: This.

  10. 10
    BGinCHI says:

    @Elmo: He’s my President! (slap) He’s my Landlord!

  11. 11
    BGinCHI says:

    Trump: We are a nation of men, not… wait, what were we talking about?

  12. 12
    Mnemosyne says:

    Here’s the thing: narcissists are infamous for testing the boundaries. They are the people for whom the phrase give ’em an inch and they’ll take a mile was invented.

    Trump will keep pushing the boundaries until someone pushes back, and the Republicans will never push back unless it looks like they’ll be personally affected.

  13. 13
    Yutsano says:

    @BGinCHI: The sad part is that, unless he sells his stake in the DC hotel, this is literally a true statement. No word on how the GSA is going to handle this.

  14. 14
    Corner Stone says:


    IANAL so I don’t understand what this means. Can we get some context?

    I am still not sure how your sexual preferences have any bearing on this potential act of criminality, or your understanding thereof.

  15. 15
    rikyrah says:

    Helen Kennedy Verified account

    Facebook nitwit celebrating Obamacare repeal finds out Obamacare is another name for the ACA he depends on.

  16. 16
    rikyrah says:

    Matt Fuller Verified account

    Jim Inhofe basically just said Senators shouldn’t apply the same standards they applied to Obama’s nominees because these are Trump’s.


  17. 17

    This is why there were “dollar-a-year men”, in bygone days. Going forward, under the revived Holman Act, there will be an entirely different kind of dollar-a-year men. But the other commenters are correct that the notion that there might be enforcement is no longer even amusing, only mildly tiresome.

  18. 18
    rikyrah says:

    We were ethics lawyers for Bush and Obama. Trump’s cabinet hearings must be delayed

    The Senate plans to hold confirmation hearings before all nominees’ financial disclosure reports and ethics agreements are finalized. That’s a dangerous move

    As the former White House ethics counsels for Presidents Bush and Obama, we were involved in the submission of many presidential nominations to the US Senate for confirmation. We and others worked hard to make sure those nominees’ financial disclosure reports and ethics agreements were finalized and certified by the Office of Government Ethics (OGE) before their hearings, so that the Senate and thus the public could explore any conflicts of interest and how they were addressed.

    This week’s hearings for the president-elect’s cabinet are flouting that practice, and for that reason, should be postponed.

    This point was made clear by Senator Mitch McConnell in a 12 February 2009, letter to the then majority leader Harry Reid, insisting that the “The Office of Government Ethics letter [be] complete and submitted to the committee in time for review and prior to a committee hearing”.

    McConnell’s point was important. Short-changing the ethics review process in Congress jeopardizes nominees’ ability to do their jobs if confirmed. The Senate, and all of us, need to know if nominees will, for example, sell investments that create conflicts. If not, will they recuse themselves from certain issues? Will they have so many recusals that they cannot reasonably perform their duties, or will they be running the constant risk of violating the anti-conflicts laws? Those bear criminal penalties, so the danger is a serious one.

    Now, in 2017, with more billionaires than ever before being nominated for top jobs in the Trump administration, this argument for thorough review of financial disclosure and ethics agreements is more compelling than ever.

  19. 19
    rikyrah says:

    Health secretary nominee kept federal dollars flowing to campaign donors
    January 9, 2017 at 11:43 AM EST

    Rep. Tom Price, the physician and Georgia Republican tapped for the nation’s leading health care job, has long criticized federal spending as excessive. Yet during his years in Congress, he’s worked hard to keep federal dollars flowing to his most generous campaign donors.

    Price has been a go-to congressman, a review of his records show, for medical special interests hotly sparring with regulators or facing budget cuts. Over the past decade, he has waded into issues related to specific drugs and medical devices, making 38 inquiries with the federal Food and Drug Administration, according to federal records obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. He questioned the FDA on his constituents’ behalf about matters as minute as a device for fertility treatment and an ingredient in pain creams.

    In other cases, he has gone to bat for companies whose executives and employees have generously contributed to his campaigns and political action committees.

    “It looks like he’s somebody who could throw the store open to a lot of niche special interests,” said Ross Baker, a political science professor at Rutgers University who specializes in Congress. “These are things that fly under the radar. If you take a meat ax to Medicare, for example, everybody would know about it. But this kind of stuff is done in the dark of night.”

  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    uh uh uh

    Jesse Lehrich

    oh good, our allies are afraid to share intel with us because of Trump’s impulsive tweeting.

  21. 21
    rikyrah says:

    Joyce Beatty Verified account

    When predatory lenders steal your $$, @CFPB helps get it back. Nearly $12,000,000,000 refunded to Americans so far #FactOfTheDay #DefendCFPB

  22. 22
    Mike J says:

    Jennifer Palmieri got yet another warning from google today that a government is trying to hack her gmail account.

  23. 23
    Mnemosyne says:


    Were you the one who originally linked to the Chuck Schumer tweet where he sent McConnell’s list of requirements back to him? He literally just changed the names with a Sharpie. 😂

  24. 24
    rikyrah says:

    uh huh

    Like I said before…

    Racist in word and PROFESSIONAL DEED:

    Mother Jones Verified account

    Jeff Sessions has a history of blocking black judges

  25. 25
    GregB says:

    Some political parties are more equal than others.

  26. 26
    rikyrah says:

    Leslie Jones ‏@Lesdoggg 18h18 hours ago

    Um Meryl didn’t give a fuck about that speech limit, they DID NOT play the music on her either. Serve that tea girl, put some lemon in it

  27. 27
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    that NYT article on Kushner and his company (666 Fifth Ave? Seriously?) not only made my head spin with the number of connections to Chinese and Russian billionaires (and by extension, those governments), it also made me wonder if we’re aren’t in some kind of economic bubble again. Everything seemed to be about loans, leveraging and debt.

    See also: Ford changing its manufacturing plans away from small cars, and Chrysler announcing an increase in production of SUVs– have people decided cheap gas is forever?

  28. 28
    FoxinSocks says:

    Have been calling Congress non-stop since 11/9 and protesting in the streets as well. Realized tonight, as I was watching the news, we need to swarm the media with calls too. It’s like having a faulty circuit and the media is where the break is. Unless they turn Trump’s impending presidency into a crisis, Trump will keep doing what he’s doing.

    Here’s a link with media phone numbers. I didn’t test all of them out, but I tried a bunch of them and they worked. Left polite messages demanding media outlets do a better job of treating Trump like the threat he is and paying more attention to the Russia hacking story, which is bigger than Watergate. Please call!

  29. 29
    trollhattan says:

    Among the Viola Davis introduction, the clip reel and the Streep speech itself I think I experienced every possible emotion. Had to replay the whole thing to make sure I really heard all that. Whew.

    Also, too, have never seen an NWS quadfecta before tonight: flood watch, flood warning, flash flood warning, high wind warning. Where are my frogs?!?

  30. 30
    Millard Filmore says:


    our allies are afraid to share intel with us because of Trump

    I for one, would welcome some of the intel they have on Trump.

  31. 31
    Yutsano says:

    @trollhattan: You have to go through locusts first. I think. I haven’t researched the Plagues in awhile and too lazy to Google it now.

    @Millard Filmore:

    I for one, would welcome some of the intel they have on Trump.

    I would LOVE to know what the Russians have on him to have The Yam under their spell.

  32. 32
    Roger Moore says:


    Where are my frogs?!?

    Just watch out for the NWS Sharknado warning.

  33. 33
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Millard Filmore: I think that intel will be shared before too long. I don’t know much about Putin, but I can’t help thinking he’s going to humiliate Trump at some point just to show that he can

  34. 34
    trollhattan says:

    It’s sadly not locust season but there’s still the possibility of the little known plague: shag carpet in all homes.

  35. 35
  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @PaulW(Boy From The Harb): Exactly.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: You cannot do voluntary work for the Federal government. Work done for the Federal government must be paid for.

  38. 38
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @maurinsky: It means you can’t do volunteer work for the US government. Having a formal position with an assigned duty station and delineated duties and receiving no renumeration for one’s work is in violation of the Antideficiency Act.

  39. 39
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I got $47 a month as an E-1!

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Corner Stone: Well played, well played indeed! 🤗

  41. 41
    Jeffro says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t know much about Putin, but I can’t help thinking he’s going to humiliate Trump at some point just to show that he can

    I seriously doubt this…he’ll never publicly humilate Trump, it would free Trump’s supporters to hate Putin and what he’s trying to do.

  42. 42
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: Apparently one of the people interviewed by the NY Times on this same topic last week had the same response.

  43. 43
    trollhattan says:

    Heh, possibly Tom Cruise’s most honest role, plus my intro to Aimee Mann. And frogs!

  44. 44
    Roger Moore says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t know much about Putin, but I can’t help thinking he’s going to humiliate Trump at some point just to show that he can

    I think it depends on whether his goal is to try to play puppetmaster or to wreck the US government. Keeping it secret would keep the blackmail threat in place, while releasing it- ideally in the same kind of drip, drip, drip approach that worked so well on Hillary- after the inauguration would be better if the goal is to sow chaos.

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike J: Or some 400 lbs guy in NJ…

  46. 46
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You cannot do voluntary work for the Federal government.

    Unless there’s a specifically written exception. For example, many National Parks have volunteers help out with various functions.

  47. 47
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: a young guy who had IIRC lymphoma who got treatment until he was 26 through his mother’s job– subsequent treatment was paid for by Medicaid. He and his mother both believed that O’Care had somehow lowered the age at which young adults could stay on their parents’ insurance, and he wouldn’t have qualified for Medicaid under pre-O’Care rules.

    When the facts were presented to the mother, she said she still wouldn’t have voted D because of abortion.

  48. 48
    Millard Filmore says:


    I would LOVE to know what the Russians have on him to have The Yam under their spell.

    Well, sure. Me too, but I have more hope of a timely revelation from our allies than from Russia.

  49. 49
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: To your second question: OPEC and the non OPEC producers have agreed to limit production and bring the price of oil per barrel up above $50. Right now its not having much impact because there’s a glut in reserves. Once that works through the system, however, gas prices will be impacted and start to rise.

  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    I know you were in before me because I got the princely sum of $105/month as an E1. Made a fortune as an E5 – $350/month. Of course I got to pay taxes on that huge sum, just like you did.

  51. 51
    Roger Moore says:


    And how in the name of Charles Darwin did evolution create a bug that only comes out in a prime number of years?

    The best theory is that prime number intervals reduce the chance of accidentally cross-breeding with other species. Technically it’s only necessary for the two species to have intervals that are relatively prime (i.e. share no prime factors), but being a large prime more or less guarantees it for any other reasonable interval.

    ETA: and they’re cicadas, not locusts.

  52. 52
    Renie says:

    Trump will do whatever he wants and the GOP won’t stop him as long as he signs whatever they put in front of him.

    Foxes are in the hen house now.

  53. 53
    Francis says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, please also note the existence of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, or FACA.

    While there is no private right of action under FACA, private plaintiffs can bring claims for FACA violations under the Administrative Procedure Act.

  54. 54
    Mike J says:


    Heh, possibly Tom Cruise’s most honest role, plus my intro to Aimee Mann. And frogs!

    I saw her at the Channel in Boston in, err, 86? 87?

  55. 55
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: 66 and it was probably after taxes and whatever else the stole from us in bootcamp. I still have the stupid ass “yearbook”. What a joke, they used stock pics except about 10 pages in the middle and the head shots. Bandits.

  56. 56
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    OPEC and the non OPEC producers have agreed to limit production and bring the price of oil per barrel up above $50.

    They should aim higher. Nothing like high oil prices to decrease consumption and increase adoption of renewable energy, both of which would be good from a climate standpoint. Besides, I think they need a higher price than that to solve their budget deficits.

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:




    Arov/Wild Animals

    Dever/Death of the Egyptian’s Animals





    Makat Bechorot/Death of Egyptian Firstborn Male Children

  58. 58
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: And you were grateful!

  59. 59
    Botsplainer says:

    Personally, I like to think that somebody who experiences crushing, life altering loss after a loved one gets booted from the insurance market after the end of the ACA is going to take his or her revenge on soft targets (like fat ruddy cheeked media pundits, conservative donors, state pols, mouthy businessmen, preachers, Kushners and the like).

  60. 60

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: in general, people who say they can’t vote for a democrat because of X have a fallback Y and Z reason too. This is one of the reasons it’s stupid to do outreach to populations that abandoned us long ago regardless of our policies.

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: Correct. But outside of that, you can not work for the government without being paid.

  62. 62
    rikyrah says:

    ExxonMobil and Iran did business under secretary of State nominee Tillerson
    Oren Dorell , USA TODAY Published 4:26 p.m. ET Jan. 9, 2017

    ExxonMobil did business with Iran, Syria and Sudan through a European subsidiary while President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee for secretary of State was a top executive of the oil giant and those countries were under U.S. sanctions as state sponsors of terrorism, Securities and Exchange Commission filings show.

    That business connection is likely to surface Wednesday at a confirmation hearing for ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    The sales were conducted in 2003, 2004 and 2005 by Infineum, in which ExxonMobil owned a 50% share, according to SEC documents unearthed by American Bridge, a Democratic research group.

    ExxonMobil told USA TODAY the transactions were legal because Infineum, a joint venture with Shell Corporation, was based in Europe and the transactions did not involve any U.S. employees.

  63. 63
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: How was the election?

  64. 64 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: what a fucking idiot. So it’s okay to ‘abort’ her adult child just so she can force some stranger to have a baybee they don’t want. Also, the Obama care decreased the age the kid could stay on the parents insurance is an old false piece of info. I remember having an argument with a fundy teabagger around ’09-’10 when all the ACA stuff hadn’t even gone into effect, who told me the ACA decreased the age. Fucking morons.

  65. 65
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yea and we started getting “hazardous duty” pay in Korea the month I left!

  66. 66
    BGinCHI says:

    @Mike J: I was at The Channel a lot in summer ’88. Mostly TT The Bears though. Lemonheads were the house band (though not officially I don’t think).

  67. 67
    BGinCHI says:

    @raven: For a Police Action I’m surprised you got paid at all….

    Hey, is David Lowery living in Athens now?

  68. 68

    @Baud: the Berniecrats took 8/14.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: You can’t do anything with and, unfortunately, for people like this. They have decided that reality is what they think it is. Nothing anyone can do can change that. Wasting time on it is a fool’s errand. And that’s time that could be better spent crafting effective policy and the strategies to implement them for everyone. Even folks that think the sky is tangerine and the clouds are raspberry sherbet colored.

  70. 70
    raven says:

    @Mike J: I saw Mose Allison and the Allman Brothers (separately) in Beantown in the summer of 71!

  71. 71
    hovercraft says:

    Shocking, no seriously, I’m shocked it took this long for them to go public with their fears.
    When a person like me who has always distrusted spooks wants them to go behind the presidents back, and withhold information from him, we are in big trouble. Yes I know that’s illegal. (It is right?)

  72. 72
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Is that considered an upset? Are those eight winners bros or reasonable people?

  73. 73
    raven says:

    @BGinCHI:This was 67-68 and. after the Blue House Raid and the Pueblo they figured out the place was dicey.

    David Lowery

  74. 74
    rumpole says:

    Seems to me that this could be read to exclude the president. First, is the white house an agency? In other words, the president is not any employee–he’s limited by constitutional constraints more than statutory ones. I could see a “clear statement” rule applying. So unpaid family member aides that keep their jobs on the outside don’t violate the act so long as they work directly for him, no matter what the level of corruption involved in their doing so. The sole remedy is constitutional: the 25th amendment, or impeachment. Like a lot of institutional norms, I don’t think it was drafted with this situation in mind… I’d also note that as written, the statute prevents federal employees from receiving this advice, but does not proscribe the donor. So Kushner’s not in trouble.

    Am I reading this wrong?

  75. 75
    Yutsano says:

    @Adam L Silverman: …
    Granted I am Baha’i now but it hasn’t been THAT long…

  76. 76
    weaselone says:


    Or, they’ll blame it on Obamacare and kill liberals.

  77. 77
    Mike J says:


    I saw Mose Allison and the Allman Brothers (separately)

    For a weird show, I saw James Brown with Black Oak Arkansas opening at the Auditorium North Hall in Memphis in 84.

  78. 78
    BGinCHI says:

    @raven: That might be the only reason in the world to go to B School.

    I read that he married Velena, which happily surprised me. She and I were really good friends in the early 90s.

  79. 79
    raven says:

    @Mike J: OOOO, nice.

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What’s the Hebrew word for a plague of tweets?

  81. 81

    @Baud: I haven’t had time to check all of them, but one of them was actually on my list of folks I was going to vote for before I saw she was on their slate. Some of them (at least two) are old-timey, extremely annoying hippies one of whom is a cell-phones-cause-cancer nutjob. I’ll let you know when I get home!

    Wilmer almost got 50% in SF during the primary so it’s not a seismic shift, and they’re delegates so being a majority doesn’t have any relevance to the city itself.

  82. 82
    BGinCHI says:

    @Mike J: I saw Johnny Cash at the Cubby Bear in ’88. If you know that shitty bar you won’t believe it….

  83. 83
    Pogonip says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And GAO takes the ADA very seriously.

    I wonder if the Repubs will try to dismantle GAO now that THEY are the ones doing the finagling?

  84. 84
    BGinCHI says:

    @Baud: Twittzflöcken.

  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Delegates to what? State assembly?

  86. 86
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: trumph

  87. 87
    Feathers says:

    So, for those who were following the gas leak saga ended after 55 hours. The solution ended up being to run an entirely new line to the house, going under the driveway (instead of going up the driveway for a few feet and then taking a turn under the retaining wall and up to the house under eight or so feet of dirt and trees). I missed it because I was at work, but the space next to the house and between the retaining wall and the brick front steps meant that the hole needed could not safely be dug by hand, so they brought in a machine which is basically a giant vacuum that sucks the dirt out of the ground to create the hole. We live in the future.

    Anyway, it was stressful, but I really have nothing but great things to say about NSTAR, their people, and how it was all handled. I ended up staying in a hotel last night, after the gas was shut off, so I could get some sleep and a shower before work today.

  88. 88
    raven says:

    @BGinCHI: I don’t know them well but they were at THE First Night Party Saturday. Did you know Jeremy Ayers? He did a bit back and folks are still in mourning.

  89. 89
    Gin & Tonic says:


    Mostly TT The Bears though

    TT the Bear’s place off Central Square? I used to go there back in the mid-70’s.

  90. 90
    raven says:

    @Feathers: One does not fuck around with gas, I’m glad it’s fixed.

  91. 91
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: You know nobody calls it Beantown, right?

  92. 92
    Pogonip says:

    @rumpole: If I recall correctly the ADA has been interpreted to apply to anyone drawing a Federal salary, including the president.

  93. 93
    Jeffro says:

    I see that Cory Booker and John Lewis are going to be witnesses (I think that’s the right word) against Jeff Sessions’ nomination. While Dick Nixon has already weighed in (“One of these things is not like the other. And I don’t mean Sessions”), good for both of them. Sessions’ nomination needs to be opposed and hopefully stopped.

  94. 94

    @Baud: intraparty stuff, for setting DNC rules and whatnot.

  95. 95
  96. 96
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I did, I live in Georgia.

  97. 97
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I saw Santana at the Fillmore!

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Statewide? What were the results overall?

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Francis: Good catch, thanks!

  100. 100
  101. 101
    BGinCHI says:

    @raven: Don’t think so. Maybe someone I don’t remember.

    Some guy behind me at a show Saturday night was talking about Athens and couldn’t remember the “Automatic For the People” restaurant and I turned around and said, “Weaver Ds.” They looked at me like I had fallen out of the sky. I miss those kind of places. And that dude was so damn nice.

  102. 102
    Central Planning says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You cannot do voluntary work for the Federal government. Work done for the Federal government must be paid for.

    How about someone who advises the president for free, like Carl Icahn? Is it involuntary (you will advise me) but Carl is not filing a lawsuit for violating his 13th Amendment rights (no involuntary servitude)?

    ETA – To keep with the spirit of the thread, IANAL.

  103. 103

    @Baud: well there aren’t really parties, so I don’t know how you’d count it. The Berniecrats et al ran only in two SF districts. I’m sure there are other groups.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: They want to bring in more than they are now, but don’t want it high enough to put tar sands back in play. Or to increase the revenue to ISIL from their black market sales.

  105. 105
    BGinCHI says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Oh yeah. It was the best place in Cambridge, late 80s. I saw so many amazing bands there (Mission of Burma and on down the line).

  106. 106
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Sahil Kapur ‏@ sahilkapur 23m23 minutes ago
    House Freedom Caucus chair wants to hold off on Obamacare repeal out of “prudence”—until replace details are know

    The Freedom Caucus is pretty much the Tea Party Caucus, I believe, the ones Ted Cruz takes out to dinner. Also, Lamar Alexander said the same thing today.

  107. 107
    raven says:

    @BGinCHI: He’s a goofball, it’s still open but it’s huge condo’s all around it.

  108. 108
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: Yeah, whatevs. Nobody within 500 miles will call it that. It’d be like going to NYC and asking where’s the Avenue of the Americas.

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Those bastards!

  110. 110
  111. 111
    raven says:


    The Athens arts and music scene took another terrible blow today, Monday, Oct. 24, as reports spread through town that Jeremy “Jerry” Ayers had passed away after suffering a seizure and falling into a brief coma.

    Ayers was an essential part of the birth of new music in Athens during the late 1970s to mid-’80s, writing lyrics for both R.E.M. (“Windout,” “Old Man Kensey”) and the B-52s (“52 Girls”) and serving as a core fellow and longtime friend for many who lived through those days of distinctly Athenian bohemia.

  112. 112
    BGinCHI says:

    @efgoldman: I would have taken you up on that. I slept on a couch that whole summer in a tiny apartment on Cambridge Ave near Gov’t Center. Actually, I slept on the floor for the first 3 weeks.

  113. 113
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Chances are I’ll not be going back.

  114. 114
    BGinCHI says:

    @raven: Condos!!?? I’m aghast.

  115. 115
    Ruckus says:

    Yeah I have my company “yearbook” from boot camp. An outstanding achievement, surviving boot camp, without hurting myself or anyone else. Getting up at the crack of 7am, standing in line for food 3 times a day, scarfing down strange things masquerading as nourishment, marching around in group, not falling asleep in some of the most boring classes I’ve ever had to attend………
    Although much of that was good training for life aboard ship.

  116. 116
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    She used to make talk show hosts refer to her as Dr Monica Crowley

    ‏@ blakehounshell
    #BREAK: Trump deputy national security adviser pick Monica Crowley plagiarized parts of her Ph.D. thesis

  117. 117

    @Baud: the Yes In My Backyard pro-building-shit coalition took three seats though across the city! Yay!

  118. 118
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Is that a sincere yay or a sarcastic yay?

  119. 119
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @hovercraft: This is different. We are part of what’s called the Five Eyes. This refers to the Anglo-American Intel consortium of the US, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand. Five eyes intel can only be accessed by cleared personnel with a need to know from one of the Five Eyes countries. We don’t share this stuff, without permission and air gapping, even with our NATO partners. My guess is that its the Five Eyes and some of the NATO folks – most likely Germany. Maybe France.

  120. 120
    raven says:

    @BGinCHI: Big fucking condo’s. A huge one going in at the old Armstrong and Dobbs space on Broad/Lexington Hwy right across from the Steeple. You wouldn’t know where you were on that side of downtown. For that matter downtown is like little New Orleans, nothing but bars and corporate joints can afford the rents.

  121. 121
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yutsano: Hebrew on the left, English on the right, which is, to be honest, backwards.

    And I’ve been to the shrine in Israel. Beautiful house of worship!

  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Why five eyes? Are we all cyclops? And is Quebec excluded?

  123. 123
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: 7am??? In the MORNING. Damn, that was the middle of the day. Were you at Great Lakes?

  124. 124

    @Baud: sincere! I like them. We have a severe dearth of shit being built.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ph.D.’s who make you call them Dr. outside of Germany are some of my least favorite people on the planet.

  125. 125
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Makhat is plague. Tweet is, I think, Tviit. So Makhat Tviitim (im/eem being a plural ending).

  126. 126
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Pogonip: Yes and I have no idea. If they do it will definitely be an overreach.

  127. 127
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BGinCHI: I’ve never seen an umlaut in Hebrew before… 🤔

  128. 128
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What, you take some eggs, scramble a and put in some cheese!

  129. 129
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Makhat Tviitim

    So it is written. So it shall be done.

  130. 130
  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Central Planning: Every President has informal advisors. They don’t have an office, they don’t have government emails addresses. And they don’t get security clearances. If the President-elect is going to appoint his son in law to a position, even one that does not require Senatorial confirmation, one of the laws they will have to navigate is the Antideficiency Act.

  132. 132
    Another Scott says:

    @efgoldman: Yup. Donnie has no shame. Thinking that Putin can blackmail him is a waste of time, IMO.

    I think Donnie likes Vlad for the same reason he has expressed admiration for lots of strongmen – he wants to be thought of and treated like a strongman too. That’s why he’s so fond of the pursed-lips, squinty eyed, “tough guy” pose that looks so ridiculous (to these eyes, anyway).

    We have to fight his minions and (most importantly) their policies, not just continually point out that he’s incompetent and brain damaged, and racist, and sexist, and celebrates his stupidity.


    My $0.02.


  133. 133
    raven says:

    @efgoldman: You know what they call and avenue. . ..nevermind.

  134. 134
    Feathers says:

    @Mike J: Long time fan. I had friends who were obsessed and I happily joined them road tripping to see her (then with ‘Til Tuesday) winter of 83-84. There was one especially memorable dive bar in Medford whose name I remember not. She came out and played Wellesley a few times and did interviews at the radio station (my roommate and I had a show, but of a deeply lowly sort, not one Aimee would be on). I wouldn’t say I met her, more that I was in the room and said hi, but basically just got out of the way. Because even then, before the record came out, she was clearly someone, and that she liked singing but didn’t enjoy the fuss. And she’s very, very tall.

  135. 135
    Keith P. says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The scandals are going to be coming at a rapid clip. Chris Christie must be flipping out over being the only loyalist to fall to a vetting.

  136. 136
    cmorenc says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    @Millard Filmore: I think that intel will be shared before too long. I don’t know much about Putin, but I can’t help thinking he’s going to humiliate Trump at some point just to show that he can

    He already is – Putin’s meddling in the election was designed to shake American confidence in the legitimacy of elections, and combined with Trump’s suspiciously strong affinity for Putin and Russia, is already undermining confidence in his incoming Administration. In my lifetime, I can never recall an incoming Administration having such low approval and sowing so much apprehension and revulsion among such a large portion of the American public, outside of his rabid core supporters.

    And Putin hasn’t even tried to openly punk the Trump Admin yet. When he decides it’s the right time to do so, Trump is going to be in so far over his head, he won’t even realize he’s been handed his own ass until his own supporters cannot avoid pointing out to Trump that his face is covered in his own shit – unfortunately splattering second-hand on the entirety of the American nation and public.

  137. 137
    fuckwit says:

    @Mnemosyne: DING DING DING DING!!!

    This is the core of why this nation is falling apart, and its collapse will be complete within the next 2 years.

    There are no institutions with the requisite amount of force to stand up to sleazery. The Congress rolls over for the banksters, because they pay for their re-election campaigns. The press rolls over for corporations because they need the add money, and rolls over for the Rethugs because they need the clicks. The churches have no moral authority because they either fuck little boys and cover it up or fuck whores in diapers and cover it up. The scientific and the academic communities have some moral authority but the media ignores them or “opinions differ”‘s them, and half the country won’t listen to them anyway because they’re eggheaded “elites”. The police shoots unarmed civilians in the back and plants evidence on them. The courts do shit like approve Citizens United and destroy the VRA and ACA. Unions are done for. The only institution with any level of respect and authority and force left is the Military, and if they have to take over, the cause of a civilian self-governing Democracy is by definition lost.

    This is how the American Empire collapses.

  138. 138
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Did I call it or did I call it in the comments the other night?

    Also, she’s done. They may still give her the job, or try to, but she won’t pass the clearance adjudication now. This goes to a pattern of dishonesty that will be a huge problem in the whole of person evaluation.

  139. 139
    raven says:

    @fuckwit: Well, what are you waiting for, hell’s only half full?

  140. 140
    Baud says:


    The only institution with any level of respect and authority left is the Military,

    And Balloon Juice.

  141. 141
  142. 142
    BGinCHI says:

    @raven: Well, shit. I miss Wuxtry already.

  143. 143
    p.a. says:

    When PootyPoot is running Amrica will the trains run on time?

  144. 144
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @BGinCHI: Did you go to UGA? Did you move to Chicago from Athens to balance out raven’s moving from Chicago to Athens?

  145. 145
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Last first: Quebec, despite what they may think, is part of Canada. As for Five Eyes, here’s the primer:

  146. 146
  147. 147
    BGinCHI says:

    @efgoldman: What a coincidence. It was actually on Russell, across from the fire station.

  148. 148
    Ruckus says:

    San Diego. It may have been 6, I’ve tried to blot it out. I do remember that the back of our barracks was about 15 ft from the chain link fence separating us from the Marine Corp recruit depot. We’d get up and walk outside and the Marines would run by, double timing in ranks over broken ground with full packs and M14s at the ready. We were about 2 miles from their closest building and they’d been up and had breakfast/cleaned up the barracks, formed up and run that 2 miles. I used that morning ritual to point out to the complainers that they could have been drafted into the Marines.
    Navy boot camp in late 69-70 was about as easy as it gets. No obstacle course, did more PT in HS, etc.

  149. 149
    NotMax says:

    It’s Leona Helmsley writ large.

    Taxes Laws are for little people.

    Also too, the power of presidential pardon is absolute.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Actually I had to check that one. Modern Hebrew uses a lot of transliterations for foreign words. So a telephone is a telefon in transliteration. They even made it a verb. If I call someone it is telefanti (I phoned). One of my favorites is micro wave. Hebrew has a word for wave and several for small. Instead they did a half and half mashup: meecro-gal. Meecro, is micro transliterated into Hebrew instead of using kizat, the Hebrew word for small. As for omelet, the word is Chaveetah.

  151. 151
    BGinCHI says:

    @Steve in the ATL: MA at UGA, 89-91, then lived there again in ’93. After Athens, Toronto, then Buffalo, then Ithaca, then Chicago.

  152. 152
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @BGinCHI: Ah–you and I were there at the same time. I was the drunk law student at Harry Bissett’s. Saw some great bands at the Georgia Theater and the 40 Watt. Also saw Dash Riprock.

    Hope you are enjoying your tour of cities with miserable winters!

  153. 153
    pluky says:

    @efgoldman: Darwin, or at least selective pressure, had everything to do with it. With it’s swarm breeding strategy, long period primal spacing maximizes the chance that at least one sub-population will be out of sync with any periodic predator boom.

  154. 154
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: As I wrote, I have found that those that do this sort of thing have a tendency to do it over and over and over. They don’t just start with an op-ed or a book, it started way way before that. I don’t take any pleasure in writing that, its just seems to be the case.

  155. 155
    Feathers says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The Irish for a time required all government documents to be translated into Gaelic. There was an office devoted to making up new words for modern things. My father did some consulting for them and ended up talking to someone about what “overpasses” and “cloverleafs” were. Eventually, they changed the law so that technical documents do not have to be translated into Gaelic. Don’t know what the law is now.

  156. 156
    cmorenc says:

    Also, the Obama care decreased the age the kid could stay on the parents insurance is an old false piece of info. I remember having an argument with a fundy teabagger around ’09-’10 when all the ACA stuff hadn’t even gone into effect, who told me the ACA decreased the age. Fucking morons.

    Half of the problem is how difficult it is to break through into the information bubble of these misinformed, muddled folks when the only openings to accurate information are scattered cracks of conversation with accurately-informed folks about relevant matters, and occasional brief bits of exposure to media that aren’t RW propaganda sources- but 90% of the time they’re in the epistimologically closed bubble of RW propaganda and similarly misinformed folks. The other half of the problem is that their information receptors are dominated by their resentment glands.

  157. 157
    Shana says:

    @efgoldman: Given the reporting I saw earlier today, I suspect the Russian mob, with Putin’s collusion, is what’s hanging over him. I would guess if the Russian mob went after you it wouldn’t be pretty.

  158. 158
    Central Planning says:


    Navy boot camp in late 69-70 was about as easy as it gets.

    Do you think it was easier in 60? My dad was 18 when he was drafted. He was a medic. He always said the Navy was the branch to go into – mostly because you lobbed in ordinance from sea.

  159. 159
    raven says:

    @Central Planning: Uh, being a Corpsman had it’s drawbacks.

  160. 160
    Shana says:

    @BGinCHI: I saw a secret show in the mid to late 80s in February (I remember the cold) with various member of REM, the dBs and Robyn Hitchcock. It was one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Michael Stipe wasn’t singing with them that night and I told him it was a pity he wasn’t on stage.

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Feathers: People get very particular about their languages. In the case of Modern Hebrew, the issue is that it had basically been a language used for worship and religious rituals for almost 2,000 years. And biblical Hebrew has a dearth of vocabulary. So a lot of stuff had to be made up and/or borrowed.

  162. 162
    NotMax says:


    Well, certain trains will.

    (Caveat: link is to Daily Mail.)

  163. 163
  164. 164
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Shana: The kind of people who are in a position to have enough money to have Trump owe them are smart enough to know that muscle is completely unnecessary and, in fact, counterproductive. There’s lots that can be done which benefits them and looks like more or less normal government policy-making. People who think in terms of Goodfellas or something are high. $65-70 crude, a few decisions the right way on gas pipelines, and everybody’s happy, and there need be no fingerprints.

  165. 165
    Ruckus says:

    Don’t know about them stealing the food, can’t imagine even carrying it away would be worth it. I did KP for 3 days in all my time in and that was in the last 3 days of what was known as service week. We were supposed to be there for 11 weeks, the first 4 spent in learning how to fit in and at least look like you had even a semblance of mental capabilities. Next week was service week and I spent the first 4 days sitting in an office waiting for something to go wrong so we could go fill in. Someone got sick so I had to go be the bread guy. Put the bread out, make sure no one took too much, put it all away after each meal, clean for the next meal. Then 5 weeks of classes and finding out how much you knew about different things so they could put you in a job after. They put me in engineering and on board ship that means you don’t do KP as engineering was always short staffed. Something about trying to have a 600 ship navy with crews for maybe 500 ships.

  166. 166
    Smedley the uncertain says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I always refuse. Had a couple of ABD’s work for me years ago … good people except for that. PHD= Piled Higher and Deeper

  167. 167
    BGinCHI says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I spent many, many hours studying in the law library. Best place on campus to get work done.

    Mostly hung out at Globe Pub, Georgia Bar, Downstairs, then all the music venues. Those were great years.

  168. 168
    NotMax says:


    Trivia: In the U.S. during WW2, pre-sliced loaves all but disappeared from the shelves. Bread slicing machines were turned in so the steel and other materials could be recycled for the war effort.

  169. 169
    BGinCHI says:

    @Shana: In ’90, early in the year, there was a secret REM 10th anniversary show at the Watt. It was so amazing. I’m not sure how many Fosters oil cans I drank.

    I saw Hitchcock play there that same year. Souled American opened, and I was watching intently (I loved that band) and some guy asked me what I thought of them. I turned around and it was Hitchcock. We had a great conversation.

    Come to think of it, that wasn’t even a real RH show. SA was on the bill as headliner, and RH was playing the next day at some big UGA spring function and he just showed up and played a set at the Watt.

    Vintage Athens.

  170. 170
    BGinCHI says:

    @Shana: I LOVE the dbs.

  171. 171
    Ruckus says:

    @Central Planning:
    It may very well have been but I enlisted in late 69 so I have no idea what it was like in other years. But your dad’s take was the same as mine. Glad to say that I was right. But we had a commenter on here that enlisted in the navy, did boot camp and was sent to Vietnam as a machine gunner on a river patrol boat. So it was possible to be worse off than being drafted, seeing as a fellow I went to HS with was drafted and sent to CO at the Army language school. He spent his 2 yrs there, got out and joined the CHP.

  172. 172
    Raven says:

    @Steve in the ATL: A bunch of the old farts at the tables on the left at Bissets were my buddies. Drunken right wing gob vets they was.

  173. 173
    Raven says:

    @Ruckus: sure that wasn’t Southen Dragon at FDL? He is the only Brown Water Navy guy I know of.

  174. 174
    Raven says:

    @Shana: There was also the Hindu Love Gods, REM with Zevon minus Stipe. I have some great pics of that.

  175. 175
    Another Scott says:

    @Ruckus: John Kerry posted here?



  176. 176
    Raven says:

    @Another Scott: He and I were in the same place in the Delta.

  177. 177
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: Two of my first cousins, twice removed are brothers who are physicians. Both were drafted into the Navy. One spent the war doing physicals in San Francisco, the other was a doctor on a ship off the coast of Vietnam. My Dad, who grew up with both of them, was drafted several months before he finished his PhD in Psychology. He contacted the draft board, explained he had about four months to graduation, and he’d be more use as Dr. Silverman, Psychologist. They acknowledged this and told him to contact them shortly after he graduated. He did and they told him he was no longer needed.

  178. 178
    Ruckus says:

    I understand that if you registered as a conscientious objector you were drafted as a corpsman and sent to Vietnam. May have been an old wives tale because there were lots of corpsman who worked on ships, hospitals, bases, etc. But it does sound like something that would have happened in those days.

  179. 179
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Okay, reading that Storify sends me down an even stranger road with Comey. The FBI knows all about Trump’s Russian mob and FSB ties and Comey still intervenes on Trump’s behalf? WTF?

  180. 180
    Ruckus says:

    higgs boson mate.

  181. 181
    Raven says:

    @BGinCHI: R.E.M., Brian Cook and Zevon at the Watt.

    You already have Em!,,

  182. 182
    Raven says:

    @Ruckus: roger

  183. 183
    Shana says:

    @BGinCHI: Oh man, I miss those days. Our 20s were great weren’t they?

    As an aside, when we were trying to decide on a name for our older daughter, who we wanted to name after my husband’s late father, we decided on Elaine from the Hitchcock song “Freeze”. There’s a line “There’s a justice in this world, and I know just what it’s called. It’s called Elaine.” She’s now a lawyer.

    @BGinCHI: We saw a show at Metro the dBs played, also sometime in the mid to late 80s. We were standing next to a teenage boy who, in a moment of passion, yelled out “The dBs are the best band in the world.” That night they really were.

  184. 184
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: This goes back a long time. I think I cover a bit in the Maskirovka Slips series. It has never been clear why the DOJ has never sought to prosecute, outside of the late 1980s when Guliani buried the investigation because Trump was bankrolling and doing fundraising for Guiliani’s mayoral bid.

  185. 185
    Ruckus says:

    @Another Scott:
    He may have. I may be making the whole thing up and I’m John Kerry.
    OK I’m not, but how would you know?

  186. 186
    Raven says:

    @Ruckus: Nah, I mean it probably happened but it wasn’t common.

  187. 187
    Raven says:

    @Shana: I was already 35 when I got here!

  188. 188
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Shana: I never saw them live, but I heard “Love is for Lovers” on the Sirius 80s station a while back, for the first time in maybe twenty-five years, and it was like falling through a wormhole back to my youth. For three and half minutes.

  189. 189
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    As far as I could tell it was all the luck of the draw back in those days. Who got drafted, where they were sent, etc, etc. After 1970 they had the lottery and at least you know if you were going or not. OK docs didn’t seem to have that luxury. I had already enlisted as I couldn’t take the idea of getting home and finding that letter any longer. Of course my number in the lottery for 1970 was 15. That one five. So I was going, one way or another.

  190. 190
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: The good thing is you made it back.

  191. 191
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @BGinCHI: The Globe was great as it was not full of frat boys and had quality beer–and it was Stipe’s favorite place. I actually sat next to him at lunch at Rocky’s Pizza my first day of law school.

  192. 192
    Shana says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They played a fair amount in Chicago. Between WPGU in Champaign, whose graduates largely moved to Chicago after graduation, and WXRT, who played them a frequently, they had a good-sized following in Chicago.

    Does WXRT still do “featured artists”?

  193. 193
    Steve in the ATL says:


    Hindu Love Gods

    I still have the CD!

  194. 194
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Shana: had a song stuck in my last week that was driving me crazy. Finally realized it was “Black and White” by the db’s. No idea how that happened….

  195. 195
    Ruckus says:

    I think you are right but how do you know? I was sent to a ship based in Charleston, in the mid 70s I volunteered at a mental health center and the first day sat next to a fellow volunteer who served on a sister ship to the one I spent 2 yrs on and it spent a lot of time in the GoT getting shot at by migs. Why did I go where I did and he went to the other coast?

  196. 196
    Shana says:

    @Steve in the ATL: They made the best break up album of all time.

  197. 197
    Mike G says:

    I remember having an argument with a fundy teabagger around ’09-’10 when all the ACA stuff hadn’t even gone into effect, who told me the ACA decreased the age. Fucking morons.

    I can top that. I had a relative who was in hospital for a stroke about 2010-11 and claimed the nurses were drawing up lists of patients they’d have to leave to die because of Obamacare. Mind you this was two years before any of the Obamacare provisions came into effect.

  198. 198
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Should we split this thread into three different ones–Vietnam draft, Russia/Trump, and Athens music?

  199. 199
    Steve in the ATL says:

    And did anyone catch Bob Mould at the Georgia Theater in June 1990? Pete Buck joined him for covers of “Surrender” and “Cinnamon Girl”, neither of which I expected Pete to know how to play!

  200. 200
    Original Lee says:

    @cmorenc: Incidentally, Putin has already started (sorta) punking Trump. He has declared that 2017 will be the Year of Ecology, with three pf the main areas of emphasis as solid waste management, air pollution, and climate change.

  201. 201
    Mnemosyne says:


    I always assumed that Mann had a cameo on “Buffy the Vampire Slayer because she was a fan of the show. Especially since she got to have a line: “I hate playing vampire towns.”

  202. 202
    Miss Bianca says:

    @BGinCHI: Holy crap, seriously? The Cubby Bear? I saw Bootsy Collins there once, which struck me as weird enough, but I never would have picked it for a Johnny Cash kind of dive!

  203. 203
    Another Scott says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Threaded comments would handle that situation easily.

    Gotta run!!

    ‘night all!!



  204. 204
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Thanks. Really not that difficult, all one had to do was not be a fucking idiot. There were people who couldn’t do that.
    Worked in electronics and given that it’s a ship, there is power to the supply boards all the time. And we had to work on live equipment in port and out at sea when the ship could be pitching and rolling. In port I carried a loaded 1911 on watch. But it was still better than being offshore of Vietnam or in the army/marines/air force and being stationed there.

  205. 205
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Even folks that think the sky is tangerine and the clouds are raspberry sherbet colored.

    That sounds interesting. I’ll have what they’re having!

  206. 206
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca: That land is inhabited by vicious nine-headed technicolor monsters.

  207. 207
    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    I’ve had some of that prescribed for me. It really is pretty difficult to exist in a world like that. Of course my version also had everything that was supposed to be solid turn into a sort of jello. Walls, floors, everything. I was afraid to try to walk into the next room for fear that it wasn’t there.
    I didn’t think it was all that nice.

  208. 208
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: My understanding is that a lot of it is Oxy and Meth.

  209. 209
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Ruckus: @Adam L Silverman: aw, maaaann…

  210. 210
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we’d get into that rotten stuff pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station. We had sampled almost everything else, and now – yes, it was time
    for a long snort of ether.

  211. 211
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: “There is nothing in the world more
    helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge” is definitely one of my most favorite sentences in the English language. Gets me every time!

    @efgoldman: I’ve only ever interacted with the girl with kaleidoscope eyes, myself.

  212. 212
    Lizzy L says:

    @efgoldman: I have many friends with doctorates. The science professors (physicists, mostly, but also geologists and archeologists) never use their degree title. The sociologists and the psychologists not only insist on being called “Doctor,” they insist on printing “PhD” after their names on the front of their checks. Just sayin’.

  213. 213
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Ether you like it or you don’t.

  214. 214
    Smedley the uncertain says:

    @Another Scott: Yup.

  215. 215
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: The one I knew was named Orville; his favorite color was blue.

  216. 216
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Lizzy L: In certain professional settings its appropriate. In others, not so much. Since I work in a world of ranks and titles, mine gets used in professional settings.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I am told that the title helps in getting reservations at good restaurants.

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    J R in WV says:


    I was an E-2, and got $90/month in 1970, after boot camp. I dunno how much boots made. Too long ago, nothing to spend it on anyway.

  219. 219
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: wouldn’t know. The closest I’ve ever come to the stuff is hearing my dad tell how a surgeon tricked him into breathing it in before an operation. He was five at the time.

  220. 220
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think I’ve ever used mine to get a reservation.

  221. 221
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: With a JD, I have never tried it. It seems undignified.

  222. 222
    J R in WV says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You really believe that? Hopeless romantic, aren’t you?

    T E Lawrence of Arabia –> A. Silverman of Persia… but you’re bigger.

    I think everyone Trump wants will get in, lest reviewers loose their jobs and pensions, at least, or go to jail for lese majeste at worst. A new crime in these here parts, but old and bloody back in the old country.

  223. 223
    J R in WV says:


    I had to run an obstacle course – not every day, but multiple times for sure, in Great Lakes. First arrival, 3 am, March 1st, raining mixed with sleet. We got out of the bus, and they made us learn to stand at attention in ranks in the pitch dark sleet. Later on I got pneumonia from shoveling the grinder at 2 am so we could march on it in the AM.

    The other guys hated me for staying in my bunk while the antibiotics worked, and I was afraid I would get asmoed to another company and stay in boot camp an extra couple of weeks. Plus I wasn’t as manageable as they liked. But being on shipboard was OK. Denims and ball caps mostly, never saw an officer hardly, except standing watch at the gangway.

    I got to run big cranes for cargo, like torpedoes and stuff. Bosun’s Mate. We lifted the Captain’s Gig onto the ship when we set sail, 90 footer. I also learned to dive from reading the USN Divers Manual after I bought a tank, regulator etc for $75. Better than the Marines for sure.

  224. 224
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: I can honestly attest that the reviewers, who were never known for being fun people, have had what passed for a sense of humor removed since the Snowden breach. And every subsequent one, the OPM hack, the other Booz contractor at NSA this past summer, and several others have only made them less and less and less forgiving.

    Also, never been to Persia, unless you’re counting the part of Iraq that I was deployed in, which was part of the Persian empire a thousand or so years ago.

  225. 225
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What’s a thousand years here or there?

  226. 226
    J R in WV says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Well, Iraq isn’t Arabia, so I figured it had to have been part of Persia at least a few times over the past 5000~ years.

    I understand things are tighter in the sections that review security clearance paperwork, they have to be… but Trump’s picks, I really expect the word will flow downhill to not mess with them, and if you do, shit will happen to you eventually. He’s that kind of guy, and he’s going to do his best to create that kind of system.

    I hope the professional civil service can stop that from happening, but it’s going to be chaos. Katy bar the door.

    Best of luck to all,
    and to all a good night!

  227. 227
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: Iraq is in the Levant. Or at least parts of it are.

  228. 228
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You were in Babylon, though.

  229. 229
    Jacel says:

    @Mnemosyne: There was a great segment with Mann on Portlandia.

    There’s more with her as the episode goes on.

  230. 230
    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Ether is what they gave me when I had my tonsils out. 1956 if I remember correctly. Don’t remember much about the experience except for waking up and having my throat feel like someone had driven a tracked bulldozer around in there for a week or so.

  231. 231
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    IC electrician here. I did get sick and pass out in the chow line. Spent a week in the hospital with a temp of over 104. Was sure I was going to die. When I passed out I hit the ground like a sack of potatoes, they carried me to sick call where I sat for about 8 hrs till they took me over to the hospital in the back of an open pickup, in Feb. With that 104+ temp. Now it was San Diego but the base was about 100 feet from the bay so only slightly moist and cool morning and evening. When I got out of hospital they sent me to a new company. Boot camp was 11 weeks, I got to do 12.

  232. 232
    FoxinSocks says:


    Oh, I know Trump won’t stop himself. But turn it into a crisis and the GOP may panic and cave. Of course, there’s always the American people. Ultimately, it’s up to us.

  233. 233
    debbie says:


    I’m glad to see she’s back on Twitter.

  234. 234
    debbie says:


    What else could possibly compromise Trump more than money?

  235. 235

    @efgoldman: “Darwin” programmed the cicadas to emerge at random intervals. The ones whose interval was a composite number of years starved each other into extinction long ago, because they overlapped with each other. The prime ones coincide and compete least often. #ElegantAF

  236. 236
    BGinCHI says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I was at that show. I also saw Vic Chenutt open for Mould, though I don’t think it was at the GA Theater. Damn, it might have been at the Horseshoe in Toronto.

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