That bomb picture will never fail to crack me right up. It’s like something out of the Roadrunner cartoons.
3.
bmoak
Bigfoot alert!
4.
crawdad
This post makes no sense. Bibi was opposed to the deal then and he is opposed to the deal now. He believes that the deal makes Israel less safe and will enable Iran to get nuclear weapons.
5.
PeakVT
If Trump really was the hard-nosed, clear-eyed, America-firsting genius he thinks he is, or at least a lousy imitation, he’d tell Israel to take a hike. Current policy is basically good for arms merchants and nobody else.
Sadly, Trump will probably find a way to make things worse much worse.
First order of business will be moving the Embassy. After that, a nice tour of the Green Line wall for “research purposes”, followed by off-the-cuff opinionating on the necessity and aesthetics of the Al-Aqsa mosque…
6.
Anonymous At Work
Sounds like Bibi wants the US to invade Iran, overthrow the government and install an Israeli-compliant government with popular support in its place. The only question I’d have for Bibi is: Do you want the leprechauns or the unicorns as the majority party?
7.
The Lodger
@PeakVT: I initially read that as “America-fisting genius.”
Ummm. Bibi basically said Iran was 1 year from the bomb when that picture was taken. It’s now 4 years and counting and Iran is actually further from the bomb than the time the picture was taken.
The reason the comment makes sense is that Bibi of 2012 was basically saying that Iran was rushing for the bomb despite the fear of retribution. That they were in a stone’s throw of developing such a weapon. That contradicts what he’s saying now, which is basically that Iran won’t rush to get a weapon if we tear up the agreement. Either he was lying before, or he’s lying now about Iran’s desire to get the bomb.
10.
Chris
Fuck Bibi.
11.
PeakVT
@The Lodger: That’s the Trump who actually exists.
12.
Adam L Silverman
@weaselone: Bibi has been saying this every year for over 30 years. My guess is that every so often someone goes through the list of all the stuff that Israel has sold to Iran over the table for decades – both before and after the Islamic Revolution. And then they ponder the question of what Iran could actually build/do with all that stuff. And then they freak out.
13.
Baud
You don’t even want to know how close they are to building a time machine.
14.
opiejeanne
@Mike J: I can’t decipher the word with asterisks. I imagine it’s a new exciting swear word.
One would think that would make Israel more supportive of this sort of deal. If they’ve sold them everything they would need to make a bomb with a year given a concerted effort, then a deal that keeps them in a holding pattern for several years while degrading their ability to actually build a bomb is better than the alternative where Iran rushes to build a bomb out of the need to deter an attack by the US or Israel.
Bibi is a nitwit. In the event of war between the US and Iran, Iran’s best move would be to attack Israel with everything it’s got.
22.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: thanks. I was trying to make it into a Yiddish reference to the penis. That makes more sense.
23.
Adam L Silverman
@weaselone: The professionals in Israel were supportive. The former heads of Foreign Intel and IDF came out in favor. Bibi is opposed (doesn’t listen to the professionals) and the pets he’s installed to run the security and defense services are largely silent or just do the bobble head thing.
24.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: Nope, those are either putz and its related variants (pitzela and putzelovitz) or schmuck and its variants (schmeckela and schmuckelovitz).
25.
Yutsano
@weaselone: Bibi stays in power by fearmongering. If he has a BIG BAD IRANIAN ENEMY to “protect” the Israeli public against then he can consolidate his power base and keep building settlements and enriching his cronies. It all comes back to what’s best for Bibi.
26.
Adam L Silverman
@JMG: Actually, Iran’s plans were leaked to the media back in Summer 2008.* Basically, what the strategy is is that everyone abandons the population centers and moves into the high country in an organized manner. From there an asymmetric and irregular fight will commence against the US invaders.
* There were several leaks that summer and I can’t remember where this one came from, but I think it was one of the neo-Con think tanks. I just remember being in my office in Iraq and reading the news online and seeing it and going: “hmmm, that probably shouldn’t be out there”. The same summer someone at one of the neo-Con think tanks leaked something I’d read two days before in a classified summary. The counterintel guys had their hands full and were earning their money.
27.
lollipopguild
@opiejeanne: Young Frankensteen- “Why he would have an enormous swanstucker!”
28.
lollipopguild
Where is the Roadrunner and Wiley Coyote?
29.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I couldn’t remember the two most common ones Then I was going for schnozzle; heard Jimmy Durante yesterday, schnozola is a play on the Yiddish word, but that made no sense.
His story explaining “shpilkes” still cracks me up every time.
33.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: schnozola is nose and I don’t think its Yiddish
34.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: If I’m recalling the article correctly, that’s the plan (or was).
35.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Adam- I was wondering if you’ve seen this very long twitter stream, and if you’re familiar with the guy who put it together– Eric Garland. I’m not clear on a few of the things he says, and anyone who gives Graham and McCain even partial credit makes me a little bit skeptical, but overall I agree with what he says. I’m hoping he cleans it up and clarifies in a different form– I”m old and find it hard to read something this long in this format.
36.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I read it about an hour ago. I thought it was well done. Both in terms of what he’s laying out about how we’ve reached this point with Russian meddling and in regard to the sentiments he’s articulating about the US.
His name is familiar, I do not know him.
37.
PIGL
@JMG: sorry, how would a diversionary attack on Israel help Iran in the event of attack by the USA? Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are much much closer, and produce things that America and its allies (whatever that means anymore) actually need.
38.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I posted the storify version in the thread below if you want to read it that way – much easier.
39.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: I just read that Durante Italianized it with the “ola ” , that schnozle is The Yiddish but maybe the article was wrong. I dunno.
@Anonymous At Work: Adam probably knows all about this, but people should read up on the Millennium Challenge 2002. Wikipedia article is here. Beating Iran maybe not so easy.
Iran is far larger and more unified than Iraq ever was, but we think we can beat them in an asymmetric war fought on their own ground?
It is to laugh, and always was.
48.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: @Yarrow: outside of the context of recent events, this is the one I found the most interesting
Eric Garland @ ericgarland
(incidentally, the NSA was about the only agency the Russians took seriously)
I wonder how far back that attitude goes (assuming this guy’s right)
49.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Burn the crops, poison the wells, and flee into the mountains. The traditional Romanian response to either Turkish or Hungarian invasion.
50.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t know. They’re very good at what they do, which is why the oversight issues need to be a constant concern. We want them to be excellent and be pointed in the right direction. I have no idea which of our intel agencies the Russians do/did and don’t/didn’t fear.
51.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: I do indeed remember that. Nothing like having one of the general officers/flag officers running things flipping the script on you. I think they actually made it into a JAG episode if I remember correctly.
52.
Kay
Stephen King @StephenKing Dec 10
Trump’s proposed cabinet is the worst in American history: a motley crew of plunder-monkeys.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: People who know stuff don’t scoff at NRO either, but until relatively recently, very few people knew it existed, and even now they’re pretty low key.
54.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t know of anyone who just thinks or assumes that.
55.
Trentrunner
Does anyone know: Is there a formal, outgoing Presidential farewell address?
Lincoln’s and Eisenhower’s are famous, but I don’t know if it’s regular thing.
I think that we know that the Republican party has wanted to erase Barack Obama from the history books. We know that has been a goal of theirs.
Karma is wicked and vengeful. Could have allowed some generic Republican in there. But, no. We have a stupid, con man grifter, surrounded by nothing but soulless parasites who can’t wait to loot the American Treasury. The comparison between Administrations will forever seal Barack Obama’s place in history.
I will say this again…The Persians are NOT Iraqis. And, they are NOT playing with you
67.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: And I’m not sure what she’s talking about. On the civilian side, which is CIA, there are some political appointees that the President gets to put in place, but the vast, vast majority – well over 90% – of CIA personnel are Federal civil servants of various ranks. At the other agencies in the IC you have a combination of Federal civil servants and uniformed personnel. Here too there are some political appointees that go in at the top. So if she thinks that they’re just going to replace everyone, then she doesn’t have the foggiest notion of how things work. And this is the case across the Federal government. All told I think there are 4,000 political appointments that a President can make. This includes everyone that works in the White House (minus military fellows) – Office of the President, Office of the Vice President, Office of the First Lady. It also includes things like the Special Envoy for Monitoring Anti-Semitism. These 4,000 appointees, while important and in some cases powerful, are a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the Federal workforce.
But don’t worry, he still wants to dismantle the deal for… fucking reasons.
He wants to dismantle the deal so he can accuse Iran of trying to get the bomb which justification he can use to urge the United States into going to war with Iran, silly.
max
[‘The point is for the US to fight Iran. Having a working deal on nuclear weapons gets in the way of that objection in that it reduces the excuses for getting the US to fight Iran.’]
@Adam L Silverman: The incoming administration was asking for the names of people in the Energy Department who were involved in climate meetings. Once they have names it’s not that hard to “find something” that “encourages” them to leave. Or forces them to. I would think this is the type of thing they’re thinking about. I understand the government workforce is massive but firing government employees and replacing them with loyalists has been done in authoritarian governments around the world. We are not immune. I believe them when they tell us who they are and what they want to do.
77.
Mr Stagger Lee
Isn’t the Iranians BFF with the Russians, and will Boss Putin let Trump Don IL, greenlight an attack?
78.
Lizzy L
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t think she knows. Maybe they are going to try to replace Clapper?
Lincoln’s and Eisenhower’s are famous, but I don’t know if it’s regular thing.
ITYM Washington’s; Lincoln didn’t give a farewell address because he didn’t know he was about to be assassinated. The closest he gave was his Second Inaugural.
80.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Remember, Trump thinks he “runs” a massive organization. He probably has a couple of thousand employees, not counting the places his name is licensed to. The Federal Government has millions of employees.
Kellyanne Conway says Trump is “going to put his own people” in the intelligence community
Even for a Republican operative, KAC is a disgusting person.
Miss me yet? He hasn’t even taken office, but Trump is in the running for worst president in my lifetime. And his advisers might actually be worse than he is.
85.
magurakurin
@Mr Stagger Lee: No. Boss Putin will not green light that. Shitgibbon ain’t gonna do nuthin’ but run his mouth about Iran. The investments have already started flowing. Everything he says is just a freak show for his 27% fan base.
I still have moments where I fear that they will go full metal dictatorship, but more and more I just don’t think they have the chops for it. The venal GOP will let him go until they get their tax cuts and their bogus “repeal” of the PPACA. I think Ryan is the only asshole who has any real notion of fucking with Medicare, that whole enterprise is probably already DOA. But much after that, I’m guessing they are going to shoot for a President Pence. Not that that will be any better for us, but like I said, it is where I am trending on how this plays out. Just a guess, of course.
86.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lizzy L: Didn’t Clapper announce his resignation a few weeks ago? I thought it kind of odd because I thought people at his level left unless specifically asked to stay on by the incoming president, even when we thought it was going to be Clinton.
as for Trump’s people in intelligence positions, I understood that his already announced CIA pick, Pompeo, was someone the long-time staffers there were very happy with. That could get interesting pretty quick
87.
Trentrunner
@Roger Moore: LOL absolutely right. I was thinking of Lincoln’s Second Inaugural.
His farewell address was on the order of “This first act is slower than I expected.”*
Ambassador John Bolton claimed Sunday that hacks during the election season could have been “a false flag” operation — possibly committed by the Obama administration itself.
They’re already pushing back and setting the narrative. The CIA has to be pissed off. And isn’t this something akin to not being a loyal American.
89.
magurakurin
@Yarrow: Well the Greenwald wing has been telling us the CIA is a dangerous rouge operation running free and wild of any oversight….I guess we have to hope GG is right now.
Watched a video today, The Bangles’ Walk Like an Egyptian, that had a brief clip of Gaddafi and realized most people wouldn’t recognize him.
No one under 40 at the party on Friday knew who John Glenn was.
92.
SenyorDave
@cmorenc: “In my lifetime” ? I’d say Trump is already actively competing for the “James Buchanan Award for Presidential Leadership”.
In all fairness, GWB was an incredibly bad president. Every major thing he did was as wrong as you could get, and people forget about all the “minor” bad things that occurred under his watch.
93.
Yarrow
Free and fair elections.
Michigan officials admit majority of Detroit vote counting machines broke on Election Day – Palmer Report https://t.co/Gx9btLqqrF— John Markoff (@markoff) December 11, 2016
Someone linked to this blog post from 2014 explaining how the Russians probably suborned Snowden specifically to get the goods on the NSA. We’ve been pretty much fucked on that front ever since.
Royal Dutch Shell has signed a provisional agreement to develop oil and gas fields in Iran, a move that could signal energy companies will not be deterred from doing business with the Islamic Republic despite uncertainty whether a Trump administration will scrap a nuclear deal agreed to by world powers.
Among the motivations for the US in timely concluding the nuclear deal with Iran was that our key allies around the world in maintaining sanctions on the regime (especially in Europe) were growing impatient with maintaining them, and wanted the deal done so they could resume lucrative commercial relations with Iran. Had their thinning willingness to stick with the sanctions collapsed, we’d have lost the necessary leverage to force Iran to make the deal.
96.
Corner Stone
If our institutions could be suborned by one person over a few decades then I propose they weren’t all that durable to begin with.
97.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: And this is why there is a Federal civil service union. They will be all over this.
98.
Lizzy L
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You’re right — I’d completely forgotten. He’s not staying on past the transition.
DNI has to be a serving military officer, as I recall. Which means it can’t be Giuliani.
99.
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: LTG Clapper has already resigned as DNI. He pushed for Flynn’s firing and he is now free to do what needs to be done, with no fucks left to give, on the Russian hacking report in his 36 days or so left in office.
That only helps until Congress passes a bill outlawing federal employee unions and Comrade Trump signs it.
101.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I hope so. I don’t know how robust they are. I’m sure you know much more.
102.
Adam L Silverman
@magurakurin: And Boeing just signed a deal for airplanes that will require 100,000 jobs in their US factories, which are strategically spread around in various states to put maximum pressure on Senators and members of Congress.
103.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
Go shit in the ocean, Bibi.
104.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was a statement. He knew the Flynn as National Security Advisor announcement was coming and he got ahead of that, very publicly, to put an exclamation point on it as he was the one who had Flynn fired from his last command.
105.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: There are also civil service laws that protect many Federal employees, I doubt that repealing them will be an easy lift.
106.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: That was my thinking. Remember Reagan and the air traffic controllers.
107.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Senator Paul has already announced he will not vote Bolton’s nomination out of committee. So that means that if all 9 Democrats on the Foreign Relations Committee vote no, then Bolton’s nomination is dead on arrival.
108.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I hope so. I’ve also seen a lot of push back on Tillerson.
I didn’t think that Trump getting elected would be an easy lift, and yet here we are.
110.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: I have been in Suzzana Hoffs’ dad’s synagogue. He’s a rabbi (Rabbi Hoffman) in Miami. Or he was. I’m sure he’s retired by now.
111.
Woodrowfan
@Trentrunner: o thought his farewell address was “ow”
112.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lizzy L: I always figured Giulanie was bent, but I’m still a bit surprised (pleasantly) that we’re at least spared him as a cabinet officer. Not that I think he’s going away. He’ll be on TV almost constantly I suspect, and I won’t be surprised if he winds up in some post that doesn’t require confirmation, or too much scrutiny.
@Yarrow: Michigan officials admit majority of Detroit vote counting machines broke on Election Day –
now that needs investigating
113.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman: Interesting. I think our new president is about to find out that “being in charge” while POTUS isn’t anything like being in charge of his own company. He won’t be able to snap his fingers and say “make it so.” A lot of competing forces of power in influence in the nation and in the world. They might be in for far more than they ever bargained for. And they are in no way up to the enormous task that they just asked to be given.
114.
Woodrowfan
@Mnemosyne: intelligence and military employees are not union
FYWP won’t let me edit my own comment, but I tried to add that we’re about to find out exactly how venal the Congressional Reoublicans are. My answer is, “All of them, Katie.” What’s going to stop them, public opinion?
I’ve actually done that. Not proudly mind you. But on a long paddle back to shore, Nature forced my hand. It’s actually quite pleasant in its way. Used some drifting seaweed to clean up a bit. Not anything I’d suggest making a habit of…but not vile enough punishment for Bibi…
117.
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: No, the DNI is not a serving military officer. DNI Clapper is a retired USAF 3 star. He retired from military service in 1995. In retirement he served as the Director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, which oversees NGA, DIA, NRO, and the NSA, and now the DNI.
Senator Paul has already announced he will not vote Bolton’s nomination out of committee.
Until the Russians show Paul what they have prepared for his kompromat that is. Then suddenly Bolton will be a man of high integrity and placid temperament who will make a fine deputy secretary, probably the best we’ve ever had.
119.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Getting rid of civil service protections will not be easy. Just getting legitimate, needed civil service reform is practically impossible.
120.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: They’re not as strong as they once were, but they have a lot of Federal law, Federal regulation, and Federal court rulings on their side.
121.
Adam L Silverman
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini: Well played, well played indeed. Now do it in the Hebrew like its supposed to be.
122.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
these fucking people
Joe Scarborough @ JoeNBC 3h3 hours ago
Rex Tillerson was recommended by Bob Gates and Condi Rice, and is a longtime friend of James Baker. Hardly the pedigree of a Putin stooge.
123.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: I don’t see McCain and Graham going easy on anyone that can be overtly tied to Putin.
124.
opiejeanne
@magurakurin: Boeing just signed a pretty big contract to supply Iran with new planes because theirs are old and falling apart. Worth 17 billion. I live in Washington so I think that might be a good thing.
125.
sherparick
@crawdad: But of course abrogating the deal would free Iran to start a nuclear weapon program now and without the sanctions regime that Obama and Clinton had put on Iran from 2009 to 2014. It would also mean breaking the deal with other partners in those talks U.K., France, Germany, China, and Russia who would not be interested in placing sanctions on Iran in a Trump Presidency. Bibi’s hope is for a U.S. v. Iran war (where the Trump U.S. will be fighting Iran that is being backed by Trump’s ally, Putin) This is going to work out so well (NOT).
126.
Adam L Silverman
@Woodrowfan: True, but they still have protections because of the civil service laws. It also depends whether they’re Title 5 or Title 10 excepted service for Intelligence.
127.
Gravenstone
@PeakVT: I read your statement as “America fisting “, and it made absolute sense. Of course no lube will be involved.
After decades of vociferous fear-mongering over Russia/Soviet Union, to be silent or to dismiss any talk of Putin’s meddling is well beyond venal.
And I was going to bitch about Bibi’s lying about admiring Obama, but Yarrow”s link has pissed me off.
133.
Gravenstone
@The Lodger: Damn I’m slow. Not even a handful of comments later. So much for my supposed insight.
134.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: The problem with that is, of course, that Rubio doesn’t actually ever show up for committee meetings and only rarely shows up for votes. Its still never been clear to me what exactly he does with his time in DC because he sure as hell isn’t spending it at work/doing his job.
135.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman: but, but he saved 500 jobs in Indiana…at least until the robots replace them in a year or two.
136.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Not that hard to overturn the laws once they control Congress and the Presidency. Just the pesky courts. Oh, wait. There’s that open Supreme Court seat. Problem solved!
You have a lot more faith in the integrity and courage of the current Congressional Republicans than I do. I honestly hope that you’re right and I’m wrong, because if I’m right that they’re all totally venal, it’s Hello Dictatorship.
Its still never been clear to me what exactly he does with his time in DC because he sure as hell isn’t spending it at work/doing his job.
Maybe we should call him Senator Major Major.
139.
Adam L Silverman
@PIGL: I am going to state this concisely and then will not say anything else about it: Snowden did incalculable damage. His arrival in Russia made us blind and deaf when we needed to be able to see and hear. And a lot of people are innocent people are dead and more will die because of it.
140.
BillinGlendaleCA
@sherparick: I doubt that Putin’s all that interested in a US v. Iran war. That would put US troops on his border.
because if I’m right that they’re all totally venal, it’s Hello Dictatorship.
Republican politicians are not the only agents of power in play here. I do share your fear, but I really don’t think this gang has what it takes. But, yeah, we’ll see.
142.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I have faith that they will be who they are. Senator McCain behaves a certain way. I expect him to continue to do so. Same with Senator Graham.
Some of them are going to be worried about the next election. If they think Trump is going to be really unpopular, they’ll want to do something to prove they’re independent of him so they don’t get tarred as his lapdogs by their opponents.
I agree. And a lot of people made a mistake to go to bat for him at the time.
146.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Given that none of these laws can be dealt with through reconciliation, its not as easy. There are at least 9 veto points on the House side and at least 11 on the Senate side for any piece of legislation. If you add in the formal reconciliation process, because the House and Senate legislation don’t match, that’s 3 more. And all of that is before it gets to a formal presidential veto. And then there’s the Federal courts.
147.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: Bibi’s a true Republican. He hates Obama more than he loves his country.
The guy brought two laptops full of information to Moscow with him, plus some hard drives. And he had the passwords of people who were far above him in the hierarchy.
Senator McCain behaves a certain way. I expect him to continue to do so.
McCain is the guy who totally knuckled under to George W Bush on torture and multiple other issues so, unfortunately, I also expect him to behave a certain way, and I think it’s quite different from what you expect.
Same with Senator Graham.
Graham I don’t know nearly as well. Maybe he’ll surprise me, but I am skeptical.
152.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: “Incalculable damage”. Give me a break. If one person turned and can do that kind of damage then I suggest we weren’t all that on it in the first place.
I said that when “Brave Sir Ed” showed up in Hong Kong.
154.
Corner Stone
If all of those IC programs funneled through one chokepoint where a single person could do incalculable damage then our institutions were not that durable to begin with.
And if they’re pre-assured of victory since, after all, the Republicans control all of the levers when it comes to elections in the Trump states?
As I’ve said before, this weekend has brought me around to Kay’s POV: we have no institutional resistance to the Trump virus, and we’re totally fucked. We can hope for the best, but we’d better be prepared for the worst or the coming years will add a continuous sense of shock and betrayal to the more immediate issues as people we assumed would be bulwarks end up collapsing over and over again.
Bibi’s hope is for a U.S. v. Iran war (where the Trump U.S. will be fighting Iran that is being backed by Trump’s ally, Putin) This is going to work out so well (NOT).
Nope. Bibi wants the US to give Israel a freer hand in dealing with its supposed enemies.
157.
Yarrow
@Roger Moore: Well, if the Republican Congress passes some kind of national “Democratic voters aren’t allowed to vote” law then that takes care of voter worries for the Republicans.
@Adam L Silverman: I hear you. I also heard Trump and Bannon both say they want to blow the whole thing up. I believe them and don’t think they care about pesky things like laws and courts unless they can use them for their own purposes. Making a bunch of Democrats ill so they miss key votes? Sure why not. Blackmailing judges? Absolutely. Poisoning people? Russia’s done it. Anything and everything is on the table as far as I can tell. I don’t believe our governmental system is prepared for this kind of onslaught. I don’t think the American people have any idea what these people are capable of. And they won’t find out because the press will be muzzled.
158.
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: When someone is trusted to run a computer network, and betrays that trust to gain access to things that he shouldn’t have gained access to, then they can indeed do “incalculable damage”.
Also, too, check out that 2014 link I put in comment #94. Snowden’s story has a lot of “coincidental” resemblances to other spies who were suborned by the Russians, and I don’t believe in coincidences when it comes to that kind of thing.
160.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t know if this exactly surprises me
Eunice YoonVerified account
@ eyoonCNBC
#China flies nuclear bomber over South China Sea to ‘send a message’ to Donald Trump
But I still suspect that China’s response to Trump will be more like Putin’s game with Wikileaks, only economic, and possibly more destructive.
161.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Again: do not ask me questions I cannot answer.
162.
Corner Stone
@Another Scott: There are a couple leaps there. I’m not holding a brief for Snowden. But if one mid level yahoo in one agency can do “incalculable damage”. Then shouldn’t that be the issue? It seems if that was the real deal issue that we didn’t learn too much from it and got fucked again a couple years later. Nobody took countermeasures? No retribution? No hardening of any targets?
Look, it seems way too overly simplistic to boil this down to one access point, and one turned actor/spy/plant.
163.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ksmiami: The story is that there was little crime during Vlad’s rule. Just for the record, his general contemporaries were the British War of the Roses participants, the Borgias, and Ivan the Terrible.
@Adam L Silverman: I looked at the membership. I hope someone has a stern talk with Bob Menendez.
Don’t know why I thought DNI had to be a serving military officer. Ah well.
I hope you’re right about McCain. I share some of Mnemosyne’s reservations about him. I’ve been really surprised by Graham: he’s been steadfast. It appears he has no more f***s to give and also, maybe, he has some principles.
167.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: I’m not. Listen, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t need to hear the same thing over and over again.
168.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Mnemosyne: I don’t see why Putin wouldn’t try to play multiple sides of an Iranian conflict. Increase his oil revenues, supply weapons to the Iranians (bringing them back a little more into his orbit), drive a further wedge between America and Europe, and publicly (along with China) take hammer and tongs to what little moral authority we have left in the wider world.
I read about that back at the time – when Red Force Command – Marine Lt Gen Van Riper (ret) – resigns mid-way into a serious war game, it made news.
Basically, Blue Force (USA) lost the war in the first 36 hours, then the Admiral in Charge started the war over, with rules forcing Red Force to fight according to Blue Force’s rules. Red Force Command – Lt Gen Van Riper (ret) – said it was like McNamara’s Pentagon before and during the Viet-Nam war – we can’t lose, ever.
Except we can and do. We don’t lose many battles tactically, but wars are strategic, which the politicians fuck up by the numbers routinely…
There’s nothing Red Force did that isn’t SOP for Iranian forces. We would be screwed, unless a lot of revisions to war-fighting doctrine and capabilities have been made since this exercise.
176.
catclub
@Adam L Silverman: Do you mean the contract for security screening/clearances, or the contract for IT services that Snowden was hired under?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the security clearance contract was probably low bidder.
Agree if you mean the IT services contract.
I’ve browsed the Plum Book, which is the official list of all Presidential appointees, it’s quite interesting. It’s so called bacause of the Government Printing Office cover color. Also the jobs are the only Plums left outside civil service.
But the ATC union violated prior existing law regarding strikes by Federal employees, and were fired for that violation. There’s a lot of work to rewrite the civil service, and no one IN the civil service is likely to help them speed it up.
These guys think DC is like Indianapolis, but it isn’t. Indiana doesn’t have military enemies to face, and a couple of million people hired and trained to fight them, for one tiny example.
And think how pissed off people living in Flint are, then make that everyone with kids getting diagnosed with environmental illness… they can bite off more than they can chew. And if they convince the Trumpistas that the MAGA Trumpistas have been betrayed by Trump hisself, those folks will be pissed way past anything we have seen before, since about 1859.
The issue with the clearance investigators is that Congress privatized them, with the exception of the ones at a couple of agencies/bureaus – and those folks only do the ones for their agencies/bureaus. They used to be Federal employees, now they are official US investigators while working for private companies. And they also cut the budgets. So you combine that with the OPM hack aftermath and the Snowden stuff and the other contractor caught this past year who from the reporting took even more than Snowden did (though it doesn’t appear that he did anything other than take it), and everything is slowed way, way down.
The issue with the clearance investigators is that Congress privatized them
Why keep expertise about anything within the government, when you can lose it so easily, and siphon a contract to friends?
30+ years of shooting ourselves in the foot.
183.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: It just makes it that much more expensive. For anything over a year, and for anything that can’t scale – like custodial and janitorial work across all Federal buildings in the National Capitol Region – contracts are economically inefficient ways to fill Federal jobs. Especially the higher up the expertise levels you go. And I say that as someone who is 1) currently a contractor and 2) has done about 1/2 the work I’ve done for the government over the past decade as a contractor – the rest was as a term appointment under the Intergovernmental Personnel Act.
But I still suspect that China’s response to Trump will be more like Putin’s game with Wikileaks, only economic, and possibly more destructive.
Do billionaires have to give banks their tax forms in order to get a loan? Did Trump try to get a loan from China? Would China leak his taxes in a deniable form to bring him down?
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yep, Trump may blow and say he is considering blowing up the Iran deal, but ultimately he won’t do it if his pal Putin pushes back hard. When the point about breaking the deal up would also mean breaking the deal up with the five other Governments that participated was put to Bibi by Leslie Stahl, he said he had a secret 5-point plan for getting around that and getting the U.K., France, Germany, Russia, and China on board. I expect it has something to do with threading a needle that would please both Russia and Saudi Arabia on Syria and the price of oil.
187.
Ian
@Trentrunner:
Washington and Eisenhower’s are famous. Lincoln never quite made it to his.
188.
Ian
@magurakurin:
Those threads were the most fun to read.
189.
Procopius
@Adam L Silverman: You don’t know anyone who thinks taking Iran would be easy? Well, I have to pretend they actually believe what they say, or say what they really think, but how about: Paul Wolfowitz, Victoria Nuland, Douglas Feith, Dick Cheney, Max Boot, Robert Kagan, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Sarah Palin, John Bolton, etc. I don’t pay enough attention. How many people signed the original “Plan for a New American Century” aside from Dick Cheney? You’re much better informed than I am, but from where I sit (half way around the world) there seem to be a lot of them, not to mention the ones who are completely off the rails.
I know little about the intelligence employees, except that there are a lot of them, even before you get to the contractors, but the military “employees” have solid protections in the law. They can’t be fired without a lengthy process, which is why they usually are asked to resign (the ones at the top normally retire, rather than resigning, since they’ve all served long enough that their pensions are going to be 100% of base pay).
191.
Procopius
@Corner Stone: Just so. If a low-level contractor can do that much damage, then the people who designed the system are total incompetents and are really the ones at fault. From Wikipedia, “The Washington Post reported in 2010 that there were 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that are working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole includes 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances.” How many of those do you suppose send little tid-bits to Israel, Germany, Japan, Russia, etc., either for patriotic reasons or for more material rewards? Snowden makes a convenient distraction. “Oh, look, over there, a bright shiny!” This is like blaming the Rosenbergs because the USSR was able to build a nuclear weapon (the history is too long to go into here, but they had all the knowledge they needed without any spying).
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Trentrunner
I really fucking hate that thug.
Yarrow
That bomb picture will never fail to crack me right up. It’s like something out of the Roadrunner cartoons.
bmoak
Bigfoot alert!
crawdad
This post makes no sense. Bibi was opposed to the deal then and he is opposed to the deal now. He believes that the deal makes Israel less safe and will enable Iran to get nuclear weapons.
PeakVT
If Trump really was the hard-nosed, clear-eyed, America-firsting genius he thinks he is, or at least a lousy imitation, he’d tell Israel to take a hike. Current policy is basically good for arms merchants and nobody else.
Sadly, Trump will probably find a way to make things worse much worse.
First order of business will be moving the Embassy. After that, a nice tour of the Green Line wall for “research purposes”, followed by off-the-cuff opinionating on the necessity and aesthetics of the Al-Aqsa mosque…
Anonymous At Work
Sounds like Bibi wants the US to invade Iran, overthrow the government and install an Israeli-compliant government with popular support in its place. The only question I’d have for Bibi is: Do you want the leprechauns or the unicorns as the majority party?
The Lodger
@PeakVT: I initially read that as “America-fisting genius.”
Mike J
I believe his “reason” was that the sc****ze is the perosn who got the deal.
weaselone
@crawdad:
Ummm. Bibi basically said Iran was 1 year from the bomb when that picture was taken. It’s now 4 years and counting and Iran is actually further from the bomb than the time the picture was taken.
The reason the comment makes sense is that Bibi of 2012 was basically saying that Iran was rushing for the bomb despite the fear of retribution. That they were in a stone’s throw of developing such a weapon. That contradicts what he’s saying now, which is basically that Iran won’t rush to get a weapon if we tear up the agreement. Either he was lying before, or he’s lying now about Iran’s desire to get the bomb.
Chris
Fuck Bibi.
PeakVT
@The Lodger: That’s the Trump who actually exists.
Adam L Silverman
@weaselone: Bibi has been saying this every year for over 30 years. My guess is that every so often someone goes through the list of all the stuff that Israel has sold to Iran over the table for decades – both before and after the Islamic Revolution. And then they ponder the question of what Iran could actually build/do with all that stuff. And then they freak out.
Baud
You don’t even want to know how close they are to building a time machine.
opiejeanne
@Mike J: I can’t decipher the word with asterisks. I imagine it’s a new exciting swear word.
Mnemosyne
@Chris:
Not even with Trump’s dick.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
It’s the Yiddish word for “black,” which generally has a connotation pretty close to the n-word.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: Its the Yiddish word for black.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Fine, step all over my Yiddish gimmick… Don’t make me start commenting about musicals or Disney cartoons…
weaselone
@Adam L Silverman:
One would think that would make Israel more supportive of this sort of deal. If they’ve sold them everything they would need to make a bomb with a year given a concerted effort, then a deal that keeps them in a holding pattern for several years while degrading their ability to actually build a bomb is better than the alternative where Iran rushes to build a bomb out of the need to deter an attack by the US or Israel.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: I know that one.
Blazing Saddles, ” Dey darker than us!”
JMG
Bibi is a nitwit. In the event of war between the US and Iran, Iran’s best move would be to attack Israel with everything it’s got.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: thanks. I was trying to make it into a Yiddish reference to the penis. That makes more sense.
Adam L Silverman
@weaselone: The professionals in Israel were supportive. The former heads of Foreign Intel and IDF came out in favor. Bibi is opposed (doesn’t listen to the professionals) and the pets he’s installed to run the security and defense services are largely silent or just do the bobble head thing.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: Nope, those are either putz and its related variants (pitzela and putzelovitz) or schmuck and its variants (schmeckela and schmuckelovitz).
Yutsano
@weaselone: Bibi stays in power by fearmongering. If he has a BIG BAD IRANIAN ENEMY to “protect” the Israeli public against then he can consolidate his power base and keep building settlements and enriching his cronies. It all comes back to what’s best for Bibi.
Adam L Silverman
@JMG: Actually, Iran’s plans were leaked to the media back in Summer 2008.* Basically, what the strategy is is that everyone abandons the population centers and moves into the high country in an organized manner. From there an asymmetric and irregular fight will commence against the US invaders.
* There were several leaks that summer and I can’t remember where this one came from, but I think it was one of the neo-Con think tanks. I just remember being in my office in Iraq and reading the news online and seeing it and going: “hmmm, that probably shouldn’t be out there”. The same summer someone at one of the neo-Con think tanks leaked something I’d read two days before in a classified summary. The counterintel guys had their hands full and were earning their money.
lollipopguild
@opiejeanne: Young Frankensteen- “Why he would have an enormous swanstucker!”
lollipopguild
Where is the Roadrunner and Wiley Coyote?
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I couldn’t remember the two most common ones Then I was going for schnozzle; heard Jimmy Durante yesterday, schnozola is a play on the Yiddish word, but that made no sense.
opiejeanne
@lollipopguild: I went there too.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
I hadn’t realized they settled on doing it in an organized manner. A novel idea, but it just might work.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Most useful book ever: Every Goy’s Guide to Common Jewish Expressions.
His story explaining “shpilkes” still cracks me up every time.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: schnozola is nose and I don’t think its Yiddish
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: If I’m recalling the article correctly, that’s the plan (or was).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Adam- I was wondering if you’ve seen this very long twitter stream, and if you’re familiar with the guy who put it together– Eric Garland. I’m not clear on a few of the things he says, and anyone who gives Graham and McCain even partial credit makes me a little bit skeptical, but overall I agree with what he says. I’m hoping he cleans it up and clarifies in a different form– I”m old and find it hard to read something this long in this format.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I read it about an hour ago. I thought it was well done. Both in terms of what he’s laying out about how we’ve reached this point with Russian meddling and in regard to the sentiments he’s articulating about the US.
His name is familiar, I do not know him.
PIGL
@JMG: sorry, how would a diversionary attack on Israel help Iran in the event of attack by the USA? Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are much much closer, and produce things that America and its allies (whatever that means anymore) actually need.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I posted the storify version in the thread below if you want to read it that way – much easier.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: I just read that Durante Italianized it with the “ola ” , that schnozle is The Yiddish but maybe the article was wrong. I dunno.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yarrow: ah, thanks
Yarrow
@Yarrow: I found the link to the storify. A Patriot Game Theory. Kinda reminds me of Cole, as I said below.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Never fear, Yarrow provided a link to the Storify version, which is much easier to read sequentially.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: Well before my time.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Anonymous At Work: Adam probably knows all about this, but people should read up on the Millennium Challenge 2002. Wikipedia article is here. Beating Iran maybe not so easy.
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
Jinx!
Baud
Twitter. Because the paragraph is too damn long.
Mnemosyne
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Iran is far larger and more unified than Iraq ever was, but we think we can beat them in an asymmetric war fought on their own ground?
It is to laugh, and always was.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: @Yarrow: outside of the context of recent events, this is the one I found the most interesting
I wonder how far back that attitude goes (assuming this guy’s right)
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Burn the crops, poison the wells, and flee into the mountains. The traditional Romanian response to either Turkish or Hungarian invasion.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t know. They’re very good at what they do, which is why the oversight issues need to be a constant concern. We want them to be excellent and be pointed in the right direction. I have no idea which of our intel agencies the Russians do/did and don’t/didn’t fear.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: I do indeed remember that. Nothing like having one of the general officers/flag officers running things flipping the script on you. I think they actually made it into a JAG episode if I remember correctly.
Kay
I love “plunder-monkeys” :)
Mike J
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: People who know stuff don’t scoff at NRO either, but until relatively recently, very few people knew it existed, and even now they’re pretty low key.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t know of anyone who just thinks or assumes that.
Trentrunner
Does anyone know: Is there a formal, outgoing Presidential farewell address?
Lincoln’s and Eisenhower’s are famous, but I don’t know if it’s regular thing.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Works for me.
Baud
@Kay: Agree. Good term.
Baud
@Trentrunner: It’s common.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
Has “Trumpanzees” (for Trump fans) made it here yet? I saw it on WaPo and liked it.
Baud
@gogol’s wife: Hadn’t heard that one.
Lizzy L
@Trentrunner: It is a regular thing. I don’t know if they all did it, but in modern times it’s a thing they do.
Obama’s gonna burn down the barn.
Yarrow
Speaking of the intelligence community:
I’m sure that will make us much safer.
rikyrah
I think that we know that the Republican party has wanted to erase Barack Obama from the history books. We know that has been a goal of theirs.
Karma is wicked and vengeful. Could have allowed some generic Republican in there. But, no. We have a stupid, con man grifter, surrounded by nothing but soulless parasites who can’t wait to loot the American Treasury. The comparison between Administrations will forever seal Barack Obama’s place in history.
Ken
@Baud:
They stole it from the movie.
Baud
@Yarrow: What could possibly go wrong?
rikyrah
Dear Bibi:
dude…we got all kinds of receipts on you.
I will say this again…The Persians are NOT Iraqis. And, they are NOT playing with you
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: And I’m not sure what she’s talking about. On the civilian side, which is CIA, there are some political appointees that the President gets to put in place, but the vast, vast majority – well over 90% – of CIA personnel are Federal civil servants of various ranks. At the other agencies in the IC you have a combination of Federal civil servants and uniformed personnel. Here too there are some political appointees that go in at the top. So if she thinks that they’re just going to replace everyone, then she doesn’t have the foggiest notion of how things work. And this is the case across the Federal government. All told I think there are 4,000 political appointments that a President can make. This includes everyone that works in the White House (minus military fellows) – Office of the President, Office of the Vice President, Office of the First Lady. It also includes things like the Special Envoy for Monitoring Anti-Semitism. These 4,000 appointees, while important and in some cases powerful, are a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the Federal workforce.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano:
So Bibi is Trump in Hewbrew?
max
But don’t worry, he still wants to dismantle the deal for… fucking reasons.
He wants to dismantle the deal so he can accuse Iran of trying to get the bomb which justification he can use to urge the United States into going to war with Iran, silly.
max
[‘The point is for the US to fight Iran. Having a working deal on nuclear weapons gets in the way of that objection in that it reduces the excuses for getting the US to fight Iran.’]
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s the same crowd who thought we were going to be welcomed into Baghdad with flowers and candy.
You know, morons.
Corner Stone
@Yarrow: He seems stupid.
Ksmiami
@Omnes Omnibus: don’t forget to stake your enemies and hang them upside down as warnings
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: Which history?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Adam L Silverman: Exactly, more Trump bullshit. They have no idea how the government actually works.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: And that is a good thing.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: The incoming administration was asking for the names of people in the Energy Department who were involved in climate meetings. Once they have names it’s not that hard to “find something” that “encourages” them to leave. Or forces them to. I would think this is the type of thing they’re thinking about. I understand the government workforce is massive but firing government employees and replacing them with loyalists has been done in authoritarian governments around the world. We are not immune. I believe them when they tell us who they are and what they want to do.
Mr Stagger Lee
Isn’t the Iranians BFF with the Russians, and will Boss Putin let Trump Don IL, greenlight an attack?
Lizzy L
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t think she knows. Maybe they are going to try to replace Clapper?
Roger Moore
@Trentrunner:
ITYM Washington’s; Lincoln didn’t give a farewell address because he didn’t know he was about to be assassinated. The closest he gave was his Second Inaugural.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Remember, Trump thinks he “runs” a massive organization. He probably has a couple of thousand employees, not counting the places his name is licensed to. The Federal Government has millions of employees.
Mnemosyne
@Mr Stagger Lee:
Depends on whether the Russians think they can get a higher price for their oil if Iran’s oil can’t get to the market thanks to an ongoing war.
Roger Moore
@Yarrow:
He’s just following the example Shrub set when he was unhappy with the things the intelligence community was telling him.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Lizzy L: “Clap on Clap off…”
SenyorDave
Kellyanne Conway says Trump is “going to put his own people” in the intelligence community
Even for a Republican operative, KAC is a disgusting person.
Miss me yet? He hasn’t even taken office, but Trump is in the running for worst president in my lifetime. And his advisers might actually be worse than he is.
magurakurin
@Mr Stagger Lee: No. Boss Putin will not green light that. Shitgibbon ain’t gonna do nuthin’ but run his mouth about Iran. The investments have already started flowing. Everything he says is just a freak show for his 27% fan base.
I still have moments where I fear that they will go full metal dictatorship, but more and more I just don’t think they have the chops for it. The venal GOP will let him go until they get their tax cuts and their bogus “repeal” of the PPACA. I think Ryan is the only asshole who has any real notion of fucking with Medicare, that whole enterprise is probably already DOA. But much after that, I’m guessing they are going to shoot for a President Pence. Not that that will be any better for us, but like I said, it is where I am trending on how this plays out. Just a guess, of course.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lizzy L: Didn’t Clapper announce his resignation a few weeks ago? I thought it kind of odd because I thought people at his level left unless specifically asked to stay on by the incoming president, even when we thought it was going to be Clinton.
as for Trump’s people in intelligence positions, I understood that his already announced CIA pick, Pompeo, was someone the long-time staffers there were very happy with. That could get interesting pretty quick
Trentrunner
@Roger Moore: LOL absolutely right. I was thinking of Lincoln’s Second Inaugural.
His farewell address was on the order of “This first act is slower than I expected.”*
*too soon?
Yarrow
And then there’s this:
They’re already pushing back and setting the narrative. The CIA has to be pissed off. And isn’t this something akin to not being a loyal American.
magurakurin
@Yarrow: Well the Greenwald wing has been telling us the CIA is a dangerous rouge operation running free and wild of any oversight….I guess we have to hope GG is right now.
cmorenc
@SenyorDave:
“In my lifetime” ? I’d say Trump is already actively competing for the “James Buchanan Award for Presidential Leadership”.
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: Do you know Jimmy Durante, being so young?
Watched a video today, The Bangles’ Walk Like an Egyptian, that had a brief clip of Gaddafi and realized most people wouldn’t recognize him.
No one under 40 at the party on Friday knew who John Glenn was.
SenyorDave
@cmorenc: “In my lifetime” ? I’d say Trump is already actively competing for the “James Buchanan Award for Presidential Leadership”.
In all fairness, GWB was an incredibly bad president. Every major thing he did was as wrong as you could get, and people forget about all the “minor” bad things that occurred under his watch.
Yarrow
Free and fair elections.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Someone linked to this blog post from 2014 explaining how the Russians probably suborned Snowden specifically to get the goods on the NSA. We’ve been pretty much fucked on that front ever since.
cmorenc
@magurakurin:
Among the motivations for the US in timely concluding the nuclear deal with Iran was that our key allies around the world in maintaining sanctions on the regime (especially in Europe) were growing impatient with maintaining them, and wanted the deal done so they could resume lucrative commercial relations with Iran. Had their thinning willingness to stick with the sanctions collapsed, we’d have lost the necessary leverage to force Iran to make the deal.
Corner Stone
If our institutions could be suborned by one person over a few decades then I propose they weren’t all that durable to begin with.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: And this is why there is a Federal civil service union. They will be all over this.
Lizzy L
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You’re right — I’d completely forgotten. He’s not staying on past the transition.
DNI has to be a serving military officer, as I recall. Which means it can’t be Giuliani.
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: LTG Clapper has already resigned as DNI. He pushed for Flynn’s firing and he is now free to do what needs to be done, with no fucks left to give, on the Russian hacking report in his 36 days or so left in office.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
That only helps until Congress passes a bill outlawing federal employee unions and Comrade Trump signs it.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I hope so. I don’t know how robust they are. I’m sure you know much more.
Adam L Silverman
@magurakurin: And Boeing just signed a deal for airplanes that will require 100,000 jobs in their US factories, which are strategically spread around in various states to put maximum pressure on Senators and members of Congress.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
Go shit in the ocean, Bibi.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It was a statement. He knew the Flynn as National Security Advisor announcement was coming and he got ahead of that, very publicly, to put an exclamation point on it as he was the one who had Flynn fired from his last command.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: There are also civil service laws that protect many Federal employees, I doubt that repealing them will be an easy lift.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: That was my thinking. Remember Reagan and the air traffic controllers.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Senator Paul has already announced he will not vote Bolton’s nomination out of committee. So that means that if all 9 Democrats on the Foreign Relations Committee vote no, then Bolton’s nomination is dead on arrival.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I hope so. I’ve also seen a lot of push back on Tillerson.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I didn’t think that Trump getting elected would be an easy lift, and yet here we are.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: I have been in Suzzana Hoffs’ dad’s synagogue. He’s a rabbi (Rabbi Hoffman) in Miami. Or he was. I’m sure he’s retired by now.
Woodrowfan
@Trentrunner: o thought his farewell address was “ow”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lizzy L: I always figured Giulanie was bent, but I’m still a bit surprised (pleasantly) that we’re at least spared him as a cabinet officer. Not that I think he’s going away. He’ll be on TV almost constantly I suspect, and I won’t be surprised if he winds up in some post that doesn’t require confirmation, or too much scrutiny.
now that needs investigating
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman: Interesting. I think our new president is about to find out that “being in charge” while POTUS isn’t anything like being in charge of his own company. He won’t be able to snap his fingers and say “make it so.” A lot of competing forces of power in influence in the nation and in the world. They might be in for far more than they ever bargained for. And they are in no way up to the enormous task that they just asked to be given.
Woodrowfan
@Mnemosyne: intelligence and military employees are not union
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
FYWP won’t let me edit my own comment, but I tried to add that we’re about to find out exactly how venal the Congressional Reoublicans are. My answer is, “All of them, Katie.” What’s going to stop them, public opinion?
magurakurin
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini:
I’ve actually done that. Not proudly mind you. But on a long paddle back to shore, Nature forced my hand. It’s actually quite pleasant in its way. Used some drifting seaweed to clean up a bit. Not anything I’d suggest making a habit of…but not vile enough punishment for Bibi…
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: No, the DNI is not a serving military officer. DNI Clapper is a retired USAF 3 star. He retired from military service in 1995. In retirement he served as the Director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, which oversees NGA, DIA, NRO, and the NSA, and now the DNI.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Until the Russians show Paul what they have prepared for his kompromat that is. Then suddenly Bolton will be a man of high integrity and placid temperament who will make a fine deputy secretary, probably the best we’ve ever had.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Getting rid of civil service protections will not be easy. Just getting legitimate, needed civil service reform is practically impossible.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: They’re not as strong as they once were, but they have a lot of Federal law, Federal regulation, and Federal court rulings on their side.
Adam L Silverman
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini: Well played, well played indeed. Now do it in the Hebrew like its supposed to be.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
these fucking people
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: I don’t see McCain and Graham going easy on anyone that can be overtly tied to Putin.
opiejeanne
@magurakurin: Boeing just signed a pretty big contract to supply Iran with new planes because theirs are old and falling apart. Worth 17 billion. I live in Washington so I think that might be a good thing.
sherparick
@crawdad: But of course abrogating the deal would free Iran to start a nuclear weapon program now and without the sanctions regime that Obama and Clinton had put on Iran from 2009 to 2014. It would also mean breaking the deal with other partners in those talks U.K., France, Germany, China, and Russia who would not be interested in placing sanctions on Iran in a Trump Presidency. Bibi’s hope is for a U.S. v. Iran war (where the Trump U.S. will be fighting Iran that is being backed by Trump’s ally, Putin) This is going to work out so well (NOT).
Adam L Silverman
@Woodrowfan: True, but they still have protections because of the civil service laws. It also depends whether they’re Title 5 or Title 10 excepted service for Intelligence.
Gravenstone
@PeakVT: I read your statement as “America fisting “, and it made absolute sense. Of course no lube will be involved.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Rubio has signaled he won’t as well.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: 100,000 jobs. And if Boeing doesn’t build them in the US, then Airbus will be happy to build them in Europe.
magurakurin
@opiejeanne: sounds like a good thing to me. But our new president might not…he’s already picking fights with Boeing…how weird, huh?
PIGL
@Mnemosyne: I mean, I can imagine the suborning part, but how could somewhat that junior and peripheral really “give them the goods on the NSA”?
Also, too, I think we’re better off knowing something about the magnitude of / potential for domestic surveillance.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
After decades of vociferous fear-mongering over Russia/Soviet Union, to be silent or to dismiss any talk of Putin’s meddling is well beyond venal.
And I was going to bitch about Bibi’s lying about admiring Obama, but Yarrow”s link has pissed me off.
Gravenstone
@The Lodger: Damn I’m slow. Not even a handful of comments later. So much for my supposed insight.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: The problem with that is, of course, that Rubio doesn’t actually ever show up for committee meetings and only rarely shows up for votes. Its still never been clear to me what exactly he does with his time in DC because he sure as hell isn’t spending it at work/doing his job.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman: but, but he saved 500 jobs in Indiana…at least until the robots replace them in a year or two.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Not that hard to overturn the laws once they control Congress and the Presidency. Just the pesky courts. Oh, wait. There’s that open Supreme Court seat. Problem solved!
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
You have a lot more faith in the integrity and courage of the current Congressional Republicans than I do. I honestly hope that you’re right and I’m wrong, because if I’m right that they’re all totally venal, it’s Hello Dictatorship.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman:
Maybe we should call him Senator Major Major.
Adam L Silverman
@PIGL: I am going to state this concisely and then will not say anything else about it: Snowden did incalculable damage. His arrival in Russia made us blind and deaf when we needed to be able to see and hear. And a lot of people are innocent people are dead and more will die because of it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@sherparick: I doubt that Putin’s all that interested in a US v. Iran war. That would put US troops on his border.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne:
Republican politicians are not the only agents of power in play here. I do share your fear, but I really don’t think this gang has what it takes. But, yeah, we’ll see.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I have faith that they will be who they are. Senator McCain behaves a certain way. I expect him to continue to do so. Same with Senator Graham.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: One lower/mid level person did this?
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Some of them are going to be worried about the next election. If they think Trump is going to be really unpopular, they’ll want to do something to prove they’re independent of him so they don’t get tarred as his lapdogs by their opponents.
magurakurin
@Adam L Silverman:
I agree. And a lot of people made a mistake to go to bat for him at the time.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Given that none of these laws can be dealt with through reconciliation, its not as easy. There are at least 9 veto points on the House side and at least 11 on the Senate side for any piece of legislation. If you add in the formal reconciliation process, because the House and Senate legislation don’t match, that’s 3 more. And all of that is before it gets to a formal presidential veto. And then there’s the Federal courts.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: Bibi’s a true Republican. He hates Obama more than he loves his country.
Mnemosyne
@PIGL:
The guy brought two laptops full of information to Moscow with him, plus some hard drives. And he had the passwords of people who were far above him in the hierarchy.
Don’t be naive, Kay.
magurakurin
@Roger Moore:
And that would be a good call on their part if they did. He is already starting at a very low 41% approval. Unheard of for a President-elect.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Please do not ask me questions I cannot answer.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
McCain is the guy who totally knuckled under to George W Bush on torture and multiple other issues so, unfortunately, I also expect him to behave a certain way, and I think it’s quite different from what you expect.
Graham I don’t know nearly as well. Maybe he’ll surprise me, but I am skeptical.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: “Incalculable damage”. Give me a break. If one person turned and can do that kind of damage then I suggest we weren’t all that on it in the first place.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman:
I said that when “Brave Sir Ed” showed up in Hong Kong.
Corner Stone
If all of those IC programs funneled through one chokepoint where a single person could do incalculable damage then our institutions were not that durable to begin with.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
And if they’re pre-assured of victory since, after all, the Republicans control all of the levers when it comes to elections in the Trump states?
As I’ve said before, this weekend has brought me around to Kay’s POV: we have no institutional resistance to the Trump virus, and we’re totally fucked. We can hope for the best, but we’d better be prepared for the worst or the coming years will add a continuous sense of shock and betrayal to the more immediate issues as people we assumed would be bulwarks end up collapsing over and over again.
Brachiator
@sherparick:
Nope. Bibi wants the US to give Israel a freer hand in dealing with its supposed enemies.
Yarrow
@Roger Moore: Well, if the Republican Congress passes some kind of national “Democratic voters aren’t allowed to vote” law then that takes care of voter worries for the Republicans.
@Adam L Silverman: I hear you. I also heard Trump and Bannon both say they want to blow the whole thing up. I believe them and don’t think they care about pesky things like laws and courts unless they can use them for their own purposes. Making a bunch of Democrats ill so they miss key votes? Sure why not. Blackmailing judges? Absolutely. Poisoning people? Russia’s done it. Anything and everything is on the table as far as I can tell. I don’t believe our governmental system is prepared for this kind of onslaught. I don’t think the American people have any idea what these people are capable of. And they won’t find out because the press will be muzzled.
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: When someone is trusted to run a computer network, and betrays that trust to gain access to things that he shouldn’t have gained access to, then they can indeed do “incalculable damage”.
“Sources and methods” ring a bell?
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@PIGL:
Also, too, check out that 2014 link I put in comment #94. Snowden’s story has a lot of “coincidental” resemblances to other spies who were suborned by the Russians, and I don’t believe in coincidences when it comes to that kind of thing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t know if this exactly surprises me
But I still suspect that China’s response to Trump will be more like Putin’s game with Wikileaks, only economic, and possibly more destructive.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Again: do not ask me questions I cannot answer.
Corner Stone
@Another Scott: There are a couple leaps there. I’m not holding a brief for Snowden. But if one mid level yahoo in one agency can do “incalculable damage”. Then shouldn’t that be the issue? It seems if that was the real deal issue that we didn’t learn too much from it and got fucked again a couple years later. Nobody took countermeasures? No retribution? No hardening of any targets?
Look, it seems way too overly simplistic to boil this down to one access point, and one turned actor/spy/plant.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ksmiami: The story is that there was little crime during Vlad’s rule. Just for the record, his general contemporaries were the British War of the Roses participants, the Borgias, and Ivan the Terrible.
magurakurin
@Yarrow: Just because you might not be worried enough (I kid, I kid) some, er, “explosive” news from East Asia.
China flies nuclear bomber over South China Sea to ‘send a message’ to Donald Trump
Apparently China’s message to SG is this.
magurakurin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: missed it by “that” much.
Lizzy L
@Adam L Silverman: I looked at the membership. I hope someone has a stern talk with Bob Menendez.
Don’t know why I thought DNI had to be a serving military officer. Ah well.
I hope you’re right about McCain. I share some of Mnemosyne’s reservations about him. I’ve been really surprised by Graham: he’s been steadfast. It appears he has no more f***s to give and also, maybe, he has some principles.
Corner Stone
@Adam L Silverman: I’m not. Listen, I’m, like, a smart person. I don’t need to hear the same thing over and over again.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Mnemosyne: I don’t see why Putin wouldn’t try to play multiple sides of an Iranian conflict. Increase his oil revenues, supply weapons to the Iranians (bringing them back a little more into his orbit), drive a further wedge between America and Europe, and publicly (along with China) take hammer and tongs to what little moral authority we have left in the wider world.
Adam L Silverman
@Corner Stone: Well played, well played indeed.
I’m sorry to basically have to make a reply that is “trust me”, but given the subject…
catclub
@max:
Which, amusingly, is also the goal of the Saudis.
For both Israel and Saudi, their favorite war song is Onward Christian Soldiers.
catclub
@Mnemosyne:
Gaaah. That is bad.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@catclub: Gotta love the lowest bidder….
Adam L Silverman
@Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]: It was a pre-sequester contract within the intel community. I guarantee that lowest bid wasn’t an issue.
Yarrow
@magurakurin: And Russia did some drill with a nuclear submarine drone. Or something like that. We’re screwed.
J R in WV
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
@Adam L Silverman:
I read about that back at the time – when Red Force Command – Marine Lt Gen Van Riper (ret) – resigns mid-way into a serious war game, it made news.
Basically, Blue Force (USA) lost the war in the first 36 hours, then the Admiral in Charge started the war over, with rules forcing Red Force to fight according to Blue Force’s rules. Red Force Command – Lt Gen Van Riper (ret) – said it was like McNamara’s Pentagon before and during the Viet-Nam war – we can’t lose, ever.
Except we can and do. We don’t lose many battles tactically, but wars are strategic, which the politicians fuck up by the numbers routinely…
There’s nothing Red Force did that isn’t SOP for Iranian forces. We would be screwed, unless a lot of revisions to war-fighting doctrine and capabilities have been made since this exercise.
catclub
@Adam L Silverman: Do you mean the contract for security screening/clearances, or the contract for IT services that Snowden was hired under?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the security clearance contract was probably low bidder.
Agree if you mean the IT services contract.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
I’ve browsed the Plum Book, which is the official list of all Presidential appointees, it’s quite interesting. It’s so called bacause of the Government Printing Office cover color. Also the jobs are the only Plums left outside civil service.
J R in WV
@Yarrow:
But the ATC union violated prior existing law regarding strikes by Federal employees, and were fired for that violation. There’s a lot of work to rewrite the civil service, and no one IN the civil service is likely to help them speed it up.
These guys think DC is like Indianapolis, but it isn’t. Indiana doesn’t have military enemies to face, and a couple of million people hired and trained to fight them, for one tiny example.
And think how pissed off people living in Flint are, then make that everyone with kids getting diagnosed with environmental illness… they can bite off more than they can chew. And if they convince the Trumpistas that the MAGA Trumpistas have been betrayed by Trump hisself, those folks will be pissed way past anything we have seen before, since about 1859.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
עבור חרא באוקיינוס, הביבים.
ETA: Thanks to Google Translate… hope it’s properly abusive!
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: I meant the latter.
The issue with the clearance investigators is that Congress privatized them, with the exception of the ones at a couple of agencies/bureaus – and those folks only do the ones for their agencies/bureaus. They used to be Federal employees, now they are official US investigators while working for private companies. And they also cut the budgets. So you combine that with the OPM hack aftermath and the Snowden stuff and the other contractor caught this past year who from the reporting took even more than Snowden did (though it doesn’t appear that he did anything other than take it), and everything is slowed way, way down.
Adam L Silverman
@J R in WV: Yep and yep.
catclub
@Adam L Silverman:
Why keep expertise about anything within the government, when you can lose it so easily, and siphon a contract to friends?
30+ years of shooting ourselves in the foot.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: It just makes it that much more expensive. For anything over a year, and for anything that can’t scale – like custodial and janitorial work across all Federal buildings in the National Capitol Region – contracts are economically inefficient ways to fill Federal jobs. Especially the higher up the expertise levels you go. And I say that as someone who is 1) currently a contractor and 2) has done about 1/2 the work I’ve done for the government over the past decade as a contractor – the rest was as a term appointment under the Intergovernmental Personnel Act.
Millard Filmore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Do billionaires have to give banks their tax forms in order to get a loan? Did Trump try to get a loan from China? Would China leak his taxes in a deniable form to bring him down?
Sorry I cannot contribute to an answer.
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: A Chinese bank, which is owned by the government of the PRC holds one of Trump’s loans.
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-28/trump-s-chinese-bank-tenant-may-negotiate-lease-during-his-term
sherparick
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yep, Trump may blow and say he is considering blowing up the Iran deal, but ultimately he won’t do it if his pal Putin pushes back hard. When the point about breaking the deal up would also mean breaking the deal up with the five other Governments that participated was put to Bibi by Leslie Stahl, he said he had a secret 5-point plan for getting around that and getting the U.K., France, Germany, Russia, and China on board. I expect it has something to do with threading a needle that would please both Russia and Saudi Arabia on Syria and the price of oil.
Ian
@Trentrunner:
Washington and Eisenhower’s are famous. Lincoln never quite made it to his.
Ian
@magurakurin:
Those threads were the most fun to read.
Procopius
@Adam L Silverman: You don’t know anyone who thinks taking Iran would be easy? Well, I have to pretend they actually believe what they say, or say what they really think, but how about: Paul Wolfowitz, Victoria Nuland, Douglas Feith, Dick Cheney, Max Boot, Robert Kagan, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Sarah Palin, John Bolton, etc. I don’t pay enough attention. How many people signed the original “Plan for a New American Century” aside from Dick Cheney? You’re much better informed than I am, but from where I sit (half way around the world) there seem to be a lot of them, not to mention the ones who are completely off the rails.
Procopius
@Woodrowfan:
I know little about the intelligence employees, except that there are a lot of them, even before you get to the contractors, but the military “employees” have solid protections in the law. They can’t be fired without a lengthy process, which is why they usually are asked to resign (the ones at the top normally retire, rather than resigning, since they’ve all served long enough that their pensions are going to be 100% of base pay).
Procopius
@Corner Stone: Just so. If a low-level contractor can do that much damage, then the people who designed the system are total incompetents and are really the ones at fault. From Wikipedia, “The Washington Post reported in 2010 that there were 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that are working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole includes 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances.” How many of those do you suppose send little tid-bits to Israel, Germany, Japan, Russia, etc., either for patriotic reasons or for more material rewards? Snowden makes a convenient distraction. “Oh, look, over there, a bright shiny!” This is like blaming the Rosenbergs because the USSR was able to build a nuclear weapon (the history is too long to go into here, but they had all the knowledge they needed without any spying).