"An extraordinary breach has emerged between President-elect Donald Trump and the national security establishment" https://t.co/jKbAQYVbwZ
— Adam Jentleson (@AJentleson) December 10, 2016
Senator Reid’s Deputy Chief of Staff, concerning pre-election coverage:
I'll say it: NYT interviewed Reid for this story. He said things contrary to the story. NYT discarded the interview. https://t.co/p39yXdu9Qq
— Adam Jentleson (@AJentleson) December 10, 2016
Daniel Politi, at Slate: “Harry Reid: FBI Chief Comey Covered Up Russian Hacking, Should Resign” —
In an interview with MSNBC, Reid said the FBI knew that the CIA had concluded with a high level of certainty that the Russian government was trying to get Donald Trump elected, as reported in an explosive story in the Washington Post. “This is not fake news. Intelligence officials are hiding connections to the Russian government. There is no question,” Reid said. “Comey knew and deliberately kept this info a secret.”…
Reid said Comey needs to be investigated on all fronts. “I think he should be investigated by the Senate. I think he should be investigated by other agencies in the government, including the security agencies,” Reid said, before adding, “If ever there was a matter of national security, it is this.”…
The NY Daily News:
… “The FBI had this material for a long time but Comey, who is of course a Republican, refused to divulge specific information about Russia and the presidential election,” Reid said on MSNBC Saturday. “I am so disappointed in Comey. He has let the country down for partisan purposes.”…
“I did not believe that that Comey was the new J. Edgar Hoover. I thought that he would do the right thing for the country,” Reid said before cutting into the FBI leader.
When asked directly if he thought Comey sat on intelligence that showed Russia’s election meddling, Reid was equally blunt: “That’s right, that is true.”
“He should be investigated by other agencies of the government including the security agencies because if ever there was a matter of security it’s this,” he said. “I don’t think any of us understood how partisan Comey was.”…
On Saturday, Reid demanded that in the wake of the hacking news, Comey should step down as the FBI’s head — but he acknowledged that likely won’t happen.
“He won’t. He’s got his term,” Reid said. “And I’m sure the new administration…they should like him, he helped them get elected.”…
Both sources report that incoming Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer is promising “a full, bipartisan investigation into the reports of Russian meddling in the presidential election”. Say what you will about Schumer’s appointment as Reid’s replacement, he is neither publicity-shy nor averse to using ‘bipartisanship’ as a way to call out Repub venality…
.@SenatorReid when asked if Comey should resign "Of course. Yes." pic.twitter.com/7DVE3V9QBh
— Kristen Orthman (@KristenOrthman) December 10, 2016
Trentrunner
Not liking both Schumer and Cory Booker talking about action “next year.”
This is bigger than Watergate & Iran-Contra and calls for action NOW.
Obama, too.
NobodySpecial
@Trentrunner: Yeah, they need to start taking overt shots like Reid at the Pravda Presidency.
Mnemosyne
Someone else linked to this at the end of an earlier thread, but Marcy at Empty Wheel has a long post up explaining all of the evidence and why she finds it convincing.
Of course, there are still fools in her comment section spluttering about how Hillary deserved to lose because the DNC was mmmmeeeeaaaannnn to Bernie after he had been mathematically eliminated from winning.
Davis X. Machina
@MnemosyneShe was skeptical 24 hours ago. If the CIA is involved, the opposite must be true, and so forth…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the more I think about it, Comey is the biggest villain in all of this
Mary G
Yeah Joy Ann has him on her Saturday show, but will Chuck Todd or the guy shocked by blow jobs have him on Sunday when It will be watching?
Mnemosyne
@Davis X. Machina:
In the new post, she goes through all of the CIA claims in the new story and finds all of them plausible.
Anne Laurie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Not while both Vladimir Putin and Donald J. Trump are involved — and that’s not even mentioning Manafort, Bannon, or various RNC molepersons.
But a thorough, bipartisan, public investigation of James Comey’s involvement in throwing our American presidential election to a GOP figurehead for a hostile foreign power would certainly and most justifiably… encourage the others.
I stand by the statement that Gerald Ford permitting all the minor Watergate CREEPsters to scurry away unpunished was the start of the current rot. Reversing that particular Republican sin against justice, by calling Comey & his assistants to public account, would be a good start towards repairing the damage.
Davis X. Machina
@Mnemosyne: Well, no one at DKos is paying any attention. The present front-page thread is all “We deserve to be hacked, because Mossadegh. Trump is our penance”, “Putin didn’t make Hillary not campaign in Wisconsin” and “It’s not the Russians, it’s got to be someone else, like the CIA’ in approximately equal measures.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anne Laurie: as I see it, Trump was a passive beneficiary, and the stuff that Manafort, Bannon et al will do with Putin is yet to come. Unless I skipped a big chunk of the WaPo story, I think Comey had far more influence on this past election than Putin.
ETA: and as to what Putin did do in the election, Comey willfully turned a blind eye to. His moral outrage was reserved for Clinton’s “carelessness”
TheMightyTrowel
OT-ish… Hey so, i’m keeping this a little on the dl from my family etc but I figured now was the time to apply for Australian citizenship – not in a rats fleeing a sinking ship sort of way because Australia (come to Australia [if you’re white, western, rich, not muslim and able bodied plus you have no family members with autism etc] we have offshore prison camps for refugees! and still refuse to legalise gay marriage!), but because if there’s ever a time to have a second citizenship to fall back on, now is it. I also want to get more active in gay rights and environmental activism, but worry about my visa status (I’m a permanent resident, but that’s still a visa and can be revoked in ways citizenship can’t) if i encounter police, etc.
I’m seriously conflicted about this, but it’s the right thing to do, right guys? Mr. Trowel looked at the tea leaves and made the same choice right after Brexit – he’s waiting to hear from the dept of immi on his application for citizenship as I type. But he’s British and British citizenship is a lot more flexible than US citizenship has traditionally been about dual or more nationalities.
Major Major Major Major
@Davis X. Machina: I am shocked, shocked to find lefty idiocy going on at Daily Kos.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jerry Brown could be interesting over the next few years. And CBS, run by an Ailes protege, has 3 Republicans, 1 indie, and no Dems. Everything old is new again. I’m genuinely surprised Conway is only on one.
Mnemosyne
@Davis X. Machina:
As I was pointing out earlier today, the irony in the But Mossadegh! argument is that the Iranians are the ones most likely to get hurt by Comrade Trump’s new alliance with Putin, so I don’t think they’re going to find much comfort in the fact that they’re getting bombed because the US got treated the same way the US treated Mossadegh.
James E Powell
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve been saying this since July, but everyone in my circle dismissed me as a bitter, partisan crank.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: At least with the “we deserved 9/11!” idiocy you could draw a causal connection between our actions and Islamic terrorism. This stuff… not so much. Russia didn’t hack our election out of spite, they hacked it because it was in their best interests to.
Mnemosyne
@TheMightyTrowel:
Is it possible to wait until Dec. 19th to make the final decision, or is the deadline before then? If the electoral college misses their last chance to reject Trump, then that may be the time to pull the trigger, because we’re all going to be fucked for the foreseeable future.
But soon you’ll be able to see Moana in Oz and have another reason to hate America anyway. ;-) ?
Dog Dawg Damn
Seeing a lot of dissembling from Bernie alt-left types on Twitter. They have no problem with this because of the Shah in Iran (60 years ago) and other various things.
If one thing this election has taught me, it’s that the far left is no friend
James E Powell
@Anne Laurie:
Agree 100% – Need to add that Democrats then, as more recently, suffered from the “moving forward, not looking backward” syndrome.
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Frankly, a lot of them have been taken in by Russian propaganda, and they get pissed off when you point out that, say, Russia Today is the propaganda voice of the Russian government, not a free news outlet.
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: @Mnemosyne: No, a lot of them really do believe this shit. If you’d asked me a year ago, if Russia hacked our election and installed Donald Trump, would there be a bunch of lefties saying we deserved it, I’d have told you yes.
TheMightyTrowel
@Mnemosyne: there’s no deadline. The application is online and easy to file (if you’re white/western/etc) – the hard part is figuring out all my travel since age 18 (seriously, appl wants to know every place I went ‘outside australia’ from my 18th birthday with exact dates. I’ve made it to 2007, but that was the back half of my phd and i have… memory issues… from the phd years).
And to be fair, my serious problems with racial and lgbt lack of representation in the harry potter/fantastic beasts films aren’t even near the top of my list of ‘things that make the UK problemmatic’ so why would similar problems with Disney’s oeuvre further affect my perception of the US? ;-)
opiejeanne
@Dog Dawg Damn: I found them repellent when I was in college, in the late 60s/mid 70s. They were a bunch of self-centered misogynists. They haven’t changed much, other than being more racist than I remember.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: When did Russia Today appear? I had never heard of it until someone mentioned that whatever his name was – former MSNBC anchor – was there. And then I heard Larry King was there. Just the name of it – Russia Today – I mean, isn’t that kind of obvious it’s a Russian organization? It doesn’t take a huge leap to wonder why they’re sponsoring a media outlet in the US.
Davis X. Machina
@Major Major Major Major: It’s the price you pay for living in the focus of evil in the modern world.
guachi
Obama had a chance to be a great President. But he caved to Republicans in nominating Comey and look what happened.
Obama, sadly, has no one to blame but himself for the destruction of his legacy.
Major Major Major Major
@Davis X. Machina: San Francisco?
NotMax
@Anne Laurie
Not the first time you’ve said the same thing, but it just wasn’t so. Ford pardoned Nixon (which I disagreed with at the time, and still do) and addressed no one else.
Two score were indicted or jailed.
Mnemosyne
@TheMightyTrowel:
Frankly, the reason I was getting so frustrated last time was that the movie was not in general release yet, so I couldn’t point out the factual errors in the article you pointed me to. Obviously, you’ll have to judge for yourself, but suffice to say that the author didn’t know the actual content of the film before deciding it was bad. (Among other things, Maui is NOT the Comic Sidekick. Heihei has that role. Maui is the Reluctant Mentor. If you’re going to criticize the content of a movie, you need to know these things about it!)
To some extent, artists and anthropologists are natural enemies, because artists want to tell an interesting story while anthropologists want to be as factually accurate as possible, and you can’t do both. All storytelling is fictionalized in some way, even when you try to keep it to a recitation of facts, and all stories are influenced by the time in which they’re told.
Still, I hope that you’ll see the film with an open mind and can at least enjoy sequences like this one on an artistic level even when the anthropologist part of your brain is reminding you that the dances they’re doing are a combination of moves from multiple cultures and that they probably didn’t have full orchestration out on the ocean. :-)
(No, it’s not the sequence where Maui raps. I decided that one would be a bridge too far for you, even though it falls under the clause of artistic license called “making it accessible to Kids These Days.”)
Yarrow
@Davis X. Machina: I didn’t think MMMM lived in Trump Tower.
Major Major Major Major
@guachi: This is the dumbest thing I’ve read all day, and I read Balloon-Juice.
Ian
@Davis X. Machina:
That is why I fled that place long ago. If I have to give them any credit, it was the venue for me to find this place.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
@Yarrow:
Doesn’t anybody read Fritz Leiber anymore?
It was the Transamerica Building that completed the spell.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mnemosyne: I remember when I first encountered this phenomenon. Met a gay guy who was crazy left but obsessed with RT and cast everything Russian in terms of U.S. Imperialism (bad) versus Russian sovereignty (good).
Ended up with a blow-up after the airline was shot down near Ukraine. He believed all the crazy RT propaganda about it being a U.S. plot, etc.
Emerald
@Dog Dawg Damn: The far left only ever attacks our own side. Has nothing to do with purity. Has to do with their own power and egos.
Ditch ’em. They’re worse than useless and always have been.
Anne Laurie
@NotMax:
Despite that ‘heal the wounds’ crap, what America needed after Watergate was a full investigation of how it happened, and of the complicity of all the participants.
But as part of that particular Corrupt Bargain, Nixon got off, a handful of his assistants got (too gently) slapped, and all the little drones — such as young Richard Bruce Cheney — disappeared into the GOP’s beloved ‘private sector’ until the media’s attention wandered.
Too many of them decided the lesson wasn’t “Don’t be evil”, it was “Don’t get caught — but if you do, lie lie lie and lie again.” The result runs from the Iran-contra crimes, through Bush the Elder, to the anti-Clinton GOP years, and later Dubya’s Splendid Little Fustercluck.
Major Major Major Major
@Emerald: Yep.
@Dog Dawg Damn: I know people who are still saying that all this Russia stuff is just folks trying to redbait Sanders.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Major Major Major Major: Bernie isn’t that far removed from the Trumputin inner circle. FWIW.
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: Yeah, that’s true, but their contention is that all this stuff about hacking and Trump is really an attempt to smear Bernie. Still.
fuckwit
@Dog Dawg Damn: His refusal to shut the fuck up and his constant apperances on RT and coziness with Russia is what got Aaron Swartz persecuted to the point of suicide.
I did not understand why the USG went so hard after that sweet, brilliant kid. Then I saw that Swartz had fallen into Russian hands and was being used as a propaganda tool, appearing on RT over and over again. No wonder the feds wanted him behind bars for a long time.
NotMax
@Anne Laurie
If I read you properly, you’re intimating that Ford brought direct influence to bear at DOJ, something both unfounded and bizarre in light of the impeachment charges against Nixon (not to mention solid D control of Congress).
Mnemosyne
@fuckwit:
Yep. And at this point, only a fool would still think that Ed Snowden is a poor, innocent whistleblower and not a Russian operative who retreated there once he had the information he had promised to get for them. Too many “coincidental” Russian connections throughout this entire election to make that fairy story plausible anymore.
The only question remaining in my mind is whether Greenwald and Poitras are dupes or paid operatives themselves.
fuckwit
I don’t think there’s any chance of this being repaired before next Monday. That’s the 19th. 8 days from now.
The CIA would have to produce a full report with evidence damning enough to convince the whole country, the corporate media establishment, the EC, and enough Rethug members of Congress to make a difference, within a week.
I do not believe it is possible for a large federal government agency to move that quickly on anything, nor for public opinion to shift on something so wonky and complex so quickly.
Major Major Major Major
@fuckwit: Wait, what? This is the first I’m hearing of that. Wow.
One of my friends found his Kindle in the woods in NYC shortly after his death. Kind of a random story. Engraved for ‘Aaron’, had some books on programming, a Newton bio, a bunch of articles by eliezer yudkowsky, and a couple of self-help books for depression. Contacted the family, it was Swartz’s.
ETA: @Mnemosyne: Poitras is a useful idiot, Greenwald is, shall we say, useful.
NotMax
@NotMax
Would add as well that there was no love lost between Ford and Cheney, who was Rumsfeld’s protege. Dunno if you recall Cheney being dubbed “the Grand Teuton’ at the time and being held in some quarters as responsible for scotching Ford’s election chances in ’76.
guachi
@Major Major Major Major:
Nominating Comey was entirely Obama’s doing. It should have been blindingly obvious at the time that it was impossible to compromise with Republicans but he still kept trying.
And it bit him in the ass. I have no sympathy for Obama in the slightest about this.
Major Major Major Major
@guachi: And for the rest of the Democrats, people like Reid, who fought hard to get Comey confirmed over Republican objections?
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
As a writer, I could craft an interesting story about a naive young info libertarian who discovers too late that the Feds who have been pursuing him for providing crucial information to the Russians were telling the truth all along, and he was an inadvertent Russian spy. I could see a character like that choosing suicide over jail or flight to live in Russia for the rest of his life knowing he was a traitor, however unwittingly. But it would be a work of fiction, and depressing besides.
Mnemosyne
@guachi:
If you knew ahead of time that Comey and the rest of the Republican Party were going to sell us out to the Russians eight years down the road, you should probably share your psychic gifts with the world and not waste them here.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Sounds like something that a person who isn’t me would read. (I don’t like stories like that.)
TS
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Don’t forget the media
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
I read romance novels because I hate tragic endings so much that I don’t even want to stumble on one accidentally, so I probably wouldn’t read it, either. Still, I can picture those events happening and that being the result.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne: you need to get your mind around the fact that those people bashing Clinton and claiming to be Sanders supporters are Russian trolls trying to divide us. Let it go. Focus.
Mnemosyne
@magurakurin:
If BiP was a Russian troll, he was certainly one committed to the role, because he contacted me via my website a couple of times to continue to try and convince me.
IOW, I think both types exist — the out and out trolls, and the conspiracy theorists duped by Russian propaganda. But you’re probably right that, functionally, I should treat them as the same thing.
Major Major Major Major
@magurakurin: I personally know people like this; your evil/stupid radar needs recalibrated.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne: yes, I agree, both exist. But we have resist fighting the primary again lest we risk helping to make more of the real variety.
Xenos
@TheMightyTrowel: I am in the process of upgrading my permanent residency status in Luxembourg to citizenship. This requires becoming fluent in Luxembourgish, which is going to take a while. I suppose I will need to account for all international travel for the last 51 years, too.
I always assumed I would retire to the US and resume all the friendships that have been left fallow for the last decade. Maybe not. I have no idea what to expect,at this point. I vested for Medicare before moving & that looks to be worthless going forward.
seaboogie
@TheMightyTrowel:
True. Most any other nationality is more open to duality than the US. I lived in Canada for many, many years, and they do allow dual citizenship. I should have applied for Canadian citizenship while I was still there, and before I moved back to the US, but I was lazy and didn’t.
What you need to know is that the US does not recognize dual citizenship. But if you apply to do as much to your local consulate, they will tell you:
A) It cannot be done, and
B) This is how you do it
Basically, you apply for citizenship in the country of your choice, and then the onus is on the US Gov to strip you of your US citizenship. If you are doing it for economic reasons (avoiding taxes), you are likely screwed. Otherwise, they really don’t care, because they have bigger fish to fry.
seaboogie
@seaboogie: Sorry – forgot an important part. You contact your local US consulate to file an affadavit stating that you are NOT renouncing your US citizenship (citing reasons that they find acceptable), while also filing for citizenship in another country.
Major Major Major Major
@seaboogie:
Temporary insanity (of the country, not you)?
TheMightyTrowel
@seaboogie: thanks for the comments. Actually the state dept rules were subtly changed sometime between 2010 and 2012 to say essentially ‘we don’t like it but no biggie unless you explicitly state you’re doing it to avoid taxes or to join another country’s military’ so the onus is now on the citizen to prove nefarious intent rather than the prev situation which assumed it #ThanksObama
Princess
@Mnemosyne: I’m convinced BiP was a Russian troll because the quickest way to get him to shut up was to remind people he as a Russian troll.
I’ve actually come round to thinking Snowdon is an idealistic dupe who got tricked by Assange into going to Russia. If I’m right, he’s basically screwed, because he doesn’t have anything to offer Russia now, and they’ll probably throw him back to their new friend Trump.
I’m unsure abut Greenwald. I’d be inclined to think it was just an ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend” thing, or radical contrarianism, but he is SO touchy when you suggest he is a Russian apologist, it makes me wonder where he gets his money from.
Ella in New Mexico
If Obama had a single fuck left to give, he’d declare a national emergency tomorrow and indefinitely postpone the inauguration of Komrade Trump until it can be can concluded he is not in cahoots with a hostile foreign government to take over the United States of America.
Remember, Lincoln suspended habeus corpus. Sometimes we have to take drastic measures to preserve the union.
Kay
“Interference in the election” is just the mechanism. This is about influence and power. What “the American people” need to know is WHY the Russian government wanted Donald Trump to be President or, alternately, why they did not want Hillary Clinton to be President.
What do they want? What can they get from Trump they can’t get from Clinton?
It isn’t just a “how dare they interfere in our election!” The reason that’s a bad thing is because it’s about influence and power.
We know what the NY office of the FBI wanted- they wanted a President/DOJ/AG who would kiss law enforcement ass. What does the Russian government want?
Aunt Kathy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Normally I’d be with you on the Sunday morning shows, mostly, I just can’t….but the CBS journalist panel has Jamelle bouie, Michael Gerson, and some AP reporter I don’t know. I think Kellyanne is going to be the only truly Trump apologist in the mix today, so yeah, I’ll skip that segment.
Most of the shows today aren’t that bad in terms of guests, but that damned Mike Rowe will be on with Chuckie to talk about the wwc. hell, no.
Kay
Watching this, I think we have more to worry about than a certain segment of the voting public who were conned by Trump. Trump has now successfully tricked and then screwed over Romney, Christie and Giuliani.
We have low quality elites. Our elites are not that smart. The 37% of people who approve of Trump may ALSO be not smart but our elites aren’t turning in a stellar performance either.
Aunt Kathy
If Comey resigns or is fired,Trump picks his replacement. Isn’t it better to stick with the devil we know, now that we’ve all seen his true face? God knows how much worse the next guy could be……
Aunt Kathy
@Mnemosyne: Just do what I do, hon, and read the endings first!, Yep, I said it, There is no book I read that I don’t already know how it ends. OK, everybody, come at me!
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I think the Russians want an end to sanctions and the destruction of NATO.
tobie
@Ella in New Mexico: This is not quite as drastic as what you’re proposing–though it appeals to my outrage at the moment–but has anyone here looked into the proposed mechanism for appointing Garland to the Supreme Court on Jan 3, when the Dems for a brief moment will have a majority. (This has something to do with the fact that the returning Senate members stay but new members have yet to be sworn in.) Given the GOP’s unprecedented refusal to even hold hearings for Garland, it would seem only fair for the Dems to do something bold, too.
Miunira
@TheMightyTrowel: I consulted a US immigration lawyer before I got my Canadian citizenship and he gave me a copy of the applicable law which says that if you get citizenship in another country, the US assumes you are keeping your US citizenship unless you take steps to renounce it. I’ve had dual citizenship now for over 20 years with no problem with either country. When I renew my US passport, they ask if I’ve taken citizenship in another country. I say yes and they give me my passport – no problem.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Could be both. My money is on both.
HRA
@Kay:
Putin wanted Hillary Clinton to not be elected due to her obvious dislike of him. One of her statements was to “snub him”. Google confrontation of Hillary Clinton and Putin to see the articles about it and more information. It’s the nature of the beast (bear)
What has the often used word and promotion of “globalization” brought us besides the rust belt? In this election, it has brought us many comments from other heads of foreign nations. Why should we be surprised about the use of modern technology also being used from afar in this election?
Most of all I wish Harry Reid a long good retirement and a hobby to keep him fully occupied away from politics.
Betty Cracker
@HRA: Attitudes like yours among Democrats (making that assumption) are going to help the Republicans sweep all this under the rug. “Comments from other heads of foreign nations” and “modern technology” — what foolish twaddle! I’m definitely in favor of more Harry Reid and less HRA.
Denali
@Kay,
You nailed it. This is about influence and power. Assange lost my support when he interfered with the election when he is not a citizen. Although I am beginning to doubt my sanity in trying to preserve the voting rights of millions of people who actually voted for TEFA, those rights are essential to America. Maybe Obama will do something. Somebody has to.
Blueskies
@Aunt Kathy: NO. It is never good to encourage bad behavior.
LAC
@guachi:
Happy Sunday. FUCK OFF!!!
LAC
@Denali: can I ask what exactly obama can do about it himself? I am serious because civics 101. What would the outgoing president do on his own that would change this?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
no matter how cynical you get, you can’t keep up
the old man must be spinning like a nuclear powered top
Kathleen
@Mnemosyne: I see her as a shill for St. Snowald.
HRA
@Betty Cracker:
Attitudes? Assumptions? What I wrote is in print by many others as to the reason of Putin’s dislike of Hillary. I did not flag one article. I said “google it.”
I was helping a person with a question and who is eons far from helping a Republican as I am as well.
“Sweep it under the rug” I suppose this means there is no faith in President Obama, the CIA and the FBI to do their job. I have faith in them doing it.
“Foolish twaddle” of comments from other nations and modern technology while also knowing we have done it, too.
You obviously thrive in personally sending out periodically attacks on me. I am not impressed.
Denali
@LAC,
See post 66. This is serious stuff-not a reality show.
opiejeanne
@Betty Cracker: you know you’re my hero?
Kathleen
@Mnemosyne: No question in my mind.
Betty Cracker
@LAC: Give a speech TODAY to:
1) Demand a CIA report on Russian interference not before he leaves office but before the EC certifies Trump’s win — and publicly state the reason for the deadline, citing the relevant clause in the EC charter about preventing foreign influence.
2) State his intent to declassify and release the intelligence that indicates Russian interference in our election before he leaves office.
3) Reiterate the importance of Trump liquidating his assets and putting them in a blind trust or at the very least releasing his tax returns so we can know how much influence the Russians have on his business interests.
I’m sympathetic to the bind PBO finds himself in — he’s a patriot who is in an unbelievably fraught situation, and I’m certain he’s trying to handle this in the way he thinks will be best for the country. That’s why he’s willing to provide “Presidenting for Dummies” tutorials to the smug, racist jackass who is an incarnate insult to PBO and everything he stands for.
But if the Russians have Trump and the GOP congress by the short hairs, this isn’t just a particularly bad transfer of power from a competent, successful president to a know-nothing moron; it’s a deliberate weakening of our democracy by a hostile foreign power. As our president, PBO has a higher duty to protect us than he does to ensure a smooth transfer of power.
germy
Saw this in the comments section of my local newspaper:
I’ve been told again and again not to get out of the boat. I think I learned my lesson.
Kay
@germy:
What’s embarrassing to the American press is they focused on Hillary Clinton’s emails for 20 months while the FBI and the Russian government were influencing a US election. There was nothing in Hillary Clinton’s emails. They found nothing.
germy
@Kay: What’s embarrassing is the people who leave comments like the one I quoted are my neighbors.
Kay
And the help of the FBI. People who are paid by and supposedly work for 100% of voters. We were all paying their salaries the months that they worked as hard as they could to get Trump elected.
It’s really too much to fucking ask that we all have to pay these people for this. Do the right thing- resign and get jobs in the private sector. Have the decency to get off the public payroll if their loyalty is to Donald Trump and not the public. There’s thousands of good people who can fill and want those jobs.
El Caganer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s how the pros do it. I’ll have to really up my game.
Miss Bianca
@Miunira: Do you have to pay US taxes on your income earned in another country? Asking for a friend.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
Of all the embarrassments the media has brought on us this election season I think this may be the greatest one. They played all his games and chased the shiny object for every new news cycle and never once tried to hold him to account. How the fuck are we going to put someone in office who has business interests and liabilities all across the globe? This has baffled me for months that no one seemed interested in chasing this down. They shouldn’t even need a copy of his taxes. Maybe hire a forensic accounting team to go over what is publicly knowable. Make a few calls, follow a few leads, ask a few questions. You know, do your job?
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
However we managed to get here, this plays out as a win for Putin no matter what choices are made moving forward. Our democracy is damaged and severely weakened, no matter what Obama does or does not do.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Absolutely! What’s to stop current DOJ from cleaning house in the NYC office at the very least?
@Corner Stone: Great point. As you say, we’re divided and weakened already. But PBO has a duty to limit and ameliorate the damage while he’s in charge, and the status quo (compromised process, president and congress) guarantees things will get worse. I’m sure PBO knows this and has a clearer view of the options than we do. But based on what I know, I’m hoping he takes action.
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That Chris Wallace comment takes the cake. When you read shit like that, you really wonder what any of us can do to stop this extraordinary menace besides taking to the streets, for which I’m game.
Yarrow
@Corner Stone: I think it’s the other way around. Our democracy was already severely damaged and weakened. This election is the result of that. And it made it obvious to those who didn’t know how bad it was.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aunt Kathy: Dear god, I had never heard of Mike Rowe, but I have heard of his show, “Dirty Jobs”, or something like it– that’s who Chuck Fucking Todd brought on to discuss blue collar labor? A fucking reality TV host. Once again, if it were a Christopher Buckley*-ish political satire, you would say the author was overdoing it. If you wrote a character like Chuck Todd, who did things like this, you would say the same thing. I despised Tim “Faith” Russert, and he probably would have brought on his father, but at least the old man did actually have a blue collar job. My fucking god
* I read thank you for smoking— meh.
tobie
@Miss Bianca: Yup. US taxes residents on global income. I’m not sure any other advanced economy doesn’t. Germany might. Canada certainly doesn’t.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
the Year We Played Ourselves
Corner Stone
@Yarrow: I agree that our institutions have been failing for some time now. Maybe that was clearly displayed in the SCOTUS interference in 2000 elections. Or maybe the pardon of Nixon. Or maybe Pelosi broadly declaring we would not investigate war crimes and PBO urging us to “look forward”. I am sure there are examples in history but I don’t want to go back before the 60’s as IMO we are a fundamentally different nation since that era. Or we were at least moving to become a different nation.
But I would argue that institutions were still in place for the election of President Obama. If we could elect a black man and not have an outright hostile rebellion, then IMO, something was still holding up.
Now we’re just looking at hyper-partisanship, self-interest and anything it takes to get and keep power. There will be no checks or balance. It’s all going to be revealed as a long drawn out failed experiment.
Miunira
@Miss Bianca: No, I can exempt up to a certain amount – forget how much – but way more than I make in Canada. I do pay taxes on my social security in Canada, but not in the US – they have an agreement about pensions. You pay in your country of residence. I pay a ton of taxes to Quebec and Canada – like everyone else – but don’t end up paying anything in the US although of course I do have to declare.
LAC
@Betty Cracker: nothing you are suggesting could be done without the input of Congress. You just do not just declassify and release information on your own. As far as the blind trust, it has been brought up ad nauseum.
I understand your frustration over this happening, but unless this stops this orange tinged buffoon from taking office on the 20th, a speech to make you feel good is not the formula. The president is following the constitutional course to transfer power. Maybe next time WE will the heroes we are looking for and vote like our lives depended on it. And be more politically engaged especially in the red and purple states.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and Congress will only start to care when (their) voters start to care.
People don’t seem to understand the concept of conflict of interest or undue influence
.
So if he says, just to use one example, that he’s going to be EP on the Apprentice, just not do anything, they’re cool with that. I can’t begin to grok that*, and I don’t think it’s something we can blame on the media. Reporters have been pretty much goggle-eyed at his refusal to put any real distance between himself and his business interests.
*especially in light of how many people, including people who voted for her, assume without evidence that there was something corrupt about Clinton’s emails, there was no body, no crime scene, but they just knew there was a crime somewhere
SiubhanDuinne
@LAC:
One thing I know about President Obama is that he took and takes the Oath he swore on January 20, 2009 and again on January 21, 2013 very seriously. He is bound by it until 12:00 noon on January 20, 2017, and he knows it.
One thing I know about President-elect Trump is that when he recites those words he will be committing perjury.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Nothing will come of any of this. Trump will be sworn in and that’s that. We are all going to eat the shit sandwich served to us by Russia, Comey, NYT, Bernie, voter suppression, third parties, liberal purists, over confidence in bad polling, and Hillary’s mistakes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
MSNBC anchor just now: “Could Trump’s unorthodox approach [to his Cabinet] might bring needed change?”
Good god.
LAC
@SiubhanDuinne: exactly! I will be in hugs deep with my friends adorable one year old far from DC when that happens. Federal Ethics is a large part of my work and it fucking galls me that this cretin will be saying these words.
Yarrow
Apparently there’s a White House petition for SCOTUS to overturn the results of the election because of the findings of the CIA.
Betty Cracker
@LAC:
That’s wrong. The president can declassify documents by executive order. He also doesn’t need congressional input to request a report or deliver a speech.
Not really. I’d wager only a fraction of Americans have even heard the phrase. However, if the POTUS brought it up, defined it and explained the importance of it in a prime time speech billed in advance as a statement on the attempted hijacking of our democracy by a hostile foreign power, awareness would skyrocket.
It has nothing to do with my feelings. It’s about raising awareness and demanding accountability — from Trump, Republicans, the media, etc. All during Obama’s terms, I’ve defended him from accusations that he wasn’t using the “bully pulpit” effectively, so I get the limitations. But if ever there were a time to speak up, this is it.
So far, the president has behaved as if this were the aftermath of a normal election. I don’t think it is, and I wish the president’s actions would reflect the state of emergency I believe exists. Could be I’m wrong and Trump doesn’t represent a threat to democracy, in which case PBO is doing the right thing. I hope I’m wrong. We’ll see.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I haven’t seen much more than “Wow” and “Unprecedented!” I haven’t seen much explanation of why it’s a problem. Not on TV news anyway. Print journalism has been better.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker:
You are not alone in thinking this. Go read Elliot Lusztig’s tweet storm this morning on this issue. Start here.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yarrow: looks to me like liberal daddy-ism that pretends that Congress, the Constitution, the media and the electorate are just abstractions, and a romantic fantasy that assumes that speeches like those given by Shakespeare’s Henry V or Sorkin’s President Whatever will, at long last, awaken the American people. The American people don’t like their boat rocked. They don’t want to wake up.
Let’s say Obama had fired Comey the day after either of his prima donna temper tantrums– game me out the counterfactual that would have stopped Trump.
.”
Corner Stone
@Yarrow: Obama’s response to date has been remarkably tepid. It’s what comes next that will determine how history records him as president.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Comey went directly against orders and all precedent. Obama fired Gen McChrystal when he talked out of turn. We got a bunch of harumphing but the nation and institutions survived.
I think this reflex is really taking it to a level we can no longer justify any longer at this point.
Corner Stone
There’s nothing romantic about this. There is nothing Sorkin-esque. A hostile foreign nation state has attacked us with specific intent. That’s not hyperbole. Blithely dismissing calls for the most powerful man in the country, one who swore an oath to protect the constitution, to take a stand seems odd to me.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t really know. I’m not sure I can game it out. I could see it being a good thing or hurting things. If he fires him now, who knows what worse creature could get appointed. I linked the Lusztig stuff as an example that it’s being discussed.
@Corner Stone: I tend to agree. I do think that President Obama may be working things behind the scenes and when they’re ready he’ll make a big statement. Maybe. I don’t know.
Yarrow
Well, confirmation hearing could be interesting.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: I”m not “blithely dismissing” anything except the expectation that the American people will rise up in reaction to anything Obama could or would say.
I’m not saying firing Comey would’ve been the wrong choice. I’m saying I don’t think it would have stopped Trump. And there would’ve been a real chance of Comey becoming a media martyr.
By leaking hacked emails, which has been going on, in plain sight, and reported by the media, for months. The American people have not stirred. The chance to do something about this was during the election, Senate elections as much as the Presidential. Did Deborah Ross talk about his? Russ Feingold? Jason Kander? I don’t know.
I expect Obama will make a speech at some point, after investigating the precedents and the law (I know, total p*ssy). Everything that happened will be spelled out clearly, the consequences laid down. The Left will say it’s inadequate, the right will say it’s partisan overreach, the media will suck its collective thumb, the collective public will say “Oh, it’s all just politics” and go back to football and whatever version of American Idol is still on, and Trump will be the 45th President. I hope I’m wrong and the American people will live up to your expectations.
You think this is about Obama. I think this is about the American voter.
LAC
@Betty Cracker: an executive order? How long do you think that would hold up? The declassification process can be long and could be derailed next month. As far as people understanding what blind trusts and conflicts of interest, there have been articles pre election written in complex and in idiot proof prose about what a trump.presidency would mean, but did that change the results?
I do not think that he is normalizing anything by trying on his end to have a smooth transfer of power. No one, myself included, thinks that this is normal in any way. But to act as if he can singlehandedly stop things in its tracks is just as disgenuous as the hillary bashing that has been going on here as well. Trumps enormous ethical problems and security problems in office will have to be fought ferociously with every legal means necessary but especially with a Congress that is not comprised of cretins like a Mario Rubio, for example.
Lizzy L
Can be no doubt that Russia hacked the election in favor of T. What needs to be discovered and exposed is T’s complicity in this. I have no doubt that T was and is aware of Russia’s help — more than aware, I think he promised Putin (through one of the many conduits available to him) a clear return on his investment, in foreign policy and in economic policy.
T used Putin. Putin used T. Mutual benefit. We lose.
LAC
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: you do know that if there is a way to blame Obama for not jumping up and down and screaming away the bad man that WE THE PEOPLE somehow voted in ( despite all the information out there) then it is not the holidays here ? :)
liberal
@Corner Stone:
When we muck around in other nations’ elections, is it an “attack”?
Not saying I’m cool with what Russia did, or that the fact we do such things means we shouldn’t respond in some measured way. But that doesn’t make it an “attack”.
IMHO the right attitude isn’t to make this about Russia, since states do these things all the time, but rather about domestic perfidy—that of Trump and the Republicans.
liberal
@Corner Stone: I think it’s pretty clear that it’s not the institutions that have changed, but rather the magnitude of the threat they face.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You keep diffusing the actual point. All these other actors may or may not have made ineffectual claims that Russia played a part in our elections. Fine. We had HRC calling it out in a debate and Trump saying “nobody knows” and it could be some 400lb guy in his bedroom. Fine.
What we did not have, and to this point still do not have is the current POTUS saying basically anything. At all. I have no “faith” in the electorate. A big chunk of the ones who bothered to show up were racist assholes who want to burn it all down because they are racist asshole idiots.
There has to be some fact that matters. If we sit here and endlessly game out how the media is going to report it, and the R’s are going to spin it and not give a damn about fucking trying it and seeing what happens then what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning? It’s the same defensive crouch we always seem to find ourselves in.
This is pretty much the end of the string. Obama has rode his almost last rodeo with any sort of real power left. Is it going to be some kind of cold comfort to the nation when he speaks out on Jan 21?
Corner Stone
@liberal: Of course it is an attack.
liberal
@Miss Bianca: Not a tax expert, but my strong impression is that you have to file and then you get credited for foreign taxes paid.
liberal
@Corner Stone: Define attack. Are you claiming it’s an act of war?
Corner Stone
@liberal:
They have proven time and again they have no shame and no sense of understanding their hypocrisy. Calling them out is fine, repeatedly and loudly. This isn’t your normal R philanderer going after WJC for Lewinsky.
liberal
@Corner Stone: You’re kidding me, right? Have you been watching Obama for the last eight years?
Yes, in a relative sense he’s been a very very good president. But him doing what you think he should do would be way, way out of character.
Corner Stone
@liberal: Yes. It is when we do it and it is when it is done to us. The ability for Iran, for example, to take retribution or impose punishment on the US for interference is limited. Or other South American nations. Our ability to take direct action against Russia is also limited. But it is an attack that IMO is an act of war and should be addressed by the formerly most powerful nation on earth in a straightforward, no BS, this is what happened manner. Do we think the Trump admin is going to apply further sanctions if the intelligence report determines there is factual evidence of Russia interfering?
This isn’t just misinformation, or disinformation, or propaganda. This was a breach where they clearly picked a side and had specific intent. And this is all we currently have been leaked. Who knows what may come out in the next few months (if ever) about more direct actions?
liberal
@Corner Stone: Yeah, well, I think it might be a useful tactic—accusing the Republicans of treason (in the non-Constitutional sense, rather the dictionary sense), but it’s one of those things you’d have to really really push hard and consistently.
Not to mention that from what I’ve read, the case for Russian hacking is very strong, but the case that they’re the ones who actually gave the data to Wikileaks is less strong. You’d want to really make damn sure these accusations are 95% certain before you run with them to the degree we’re taking about here.
Substantively, I think the Wikileaks stuff is the one of the weakest factors impacting the election. They revealed almost nothing that make HRC look bad. In fact, the bad thing they did was because they were largely about “emails,” and low-information voters (aka idiots) wouldn’t be able to distinguish that issue from the Comey/email server issue. Thus conflated, the latter grew larger.
liberal
@Corner Stone:
Sadly, this is very true.
Corner Stone
@liberal: I’m not kidding you. I am simply saying that if nothing further is coming he will be wiped from the history books and at best written about as a weak and feckless president of a rapidly declining empire.
That’s not me saying he is any of that. But he will be Jimmy Cartered times a billion. Every EO, ACA, everything – gone and reviled. Be held to blame by all of the people who lost coverage. That is how that is going to go down.
liberal
@Corner Stone:
I don’t think that’s clear at all. Especially because wasn’t a lot of what they hacked not actually government stuff? Of course, I could be wrong, but I think to blithely assert it’s an act of war is hasty.
Again, apart from the general question of whether it’s an act of war, what they released was extremely weak tea. Speaking only of myself, I thought it actually made the case for HRC stronger, since there was so little in what they released that made her look bad.
liberal
@Corner Stone:
[Emphasis added.]
OK, now I know you’re high on crack. Formerly? What kind of shit are you smoking?
liberal
@Corner Stone: Frankly, this is partly his own fault beyond this one acute situation you’re talking about. He really pushed the kool-aid that he was going to be above partisanship. Not that HRC’s loss is all on him, but he was the guy who appointed Comey.
Moreover, everyone (AFAICT) has been bitching about state-level party organizations dying. Wait…remind me again, who was the titular head of the Democratic Party over the last eight years? Oh yeah, it was Obama. And now his legacy is about to be flushed down the shitter. While I wouldn’t say he has only himself to blame, a lot of it is on him.
Corner Stone
@liberal: We can blow the world up over and over and over. And we can move markets around the globe based on policy choices. We have power and are powerful. But it seems to me, and please make a counter argument, that we have lost any powerful leadership in the world with this election and the so far Twilight Zone proposed Cabinet choices.
It’s like a guest on AMJoy said this morning, with Ivanka moving her business to Ethiopia we are telling one of the most damaging and repressive, murderous regimes in the world that they must not be that bad after all.
We are undoubtedly still the world’s last Superpower but I’m not hopeful about how that power is going to be expressed in the future. Of course, most of the world would give me the side-eye about now, but…
Corner Stone
@liberal: Free and fair elections are kind of the hallmark of our democratic calling card as a nation. There was action taken, it was meant to benefit one side over another, I used the phrase “IMO” and I am going to stick with it for now until further revelations come out.
Corner Stone
Intelligence figures fear Trump reprisals over assessment of Russia election role
“Like his Democratic colleagues on the panel, Wyden is pressing Barack Obama for additional public disclosures revealing Russian electoral interference. Such pressure has placed the CIA and other intelligence agencies between the incoming president to whom they will soon answer and a chorus of legislators, mostly but not exclusively Democrats, who consider the Russia hack a national emergency.”
Corner Stone
LAC
@liberal: so Clinton is handily winning the popular vote when running a campaign that linked to his presidency. And trump is walking into office with epic low ratings. But trump is obama’s fault because….? I know that corner stone slurs out of both sides of his mouth ( take a look at his posts two months ago) but what are you yammering about? We may lose these things because of what WE voted (or sat on our hands) for in November. This suggested here now is all barely thought out and bad precedent setting shit flinging. Instead, if done correctly, it might stop this reign of shit in four years or if we get smart during the mid year elections, two years. But I do not think it will stop him taking office on the 20th. If Obama could make a speech that would stop that tomorrow, then fine. But since that is not how it goes, all this whining about him not banging his dick on a desk and yelling is sparkle pony bullshit.
Betty Cracker
@LAC: Obama is still president, and he’s a lot more trusted and popular than the carbuncle who is poised to replace him. You honestly don’t think there’s anything he can do to inform the people about the attempted heist of their democracy, influence public opinion and build pressure on Congress, etc., to take Russia’s interference seriously? It sounds like you think the most powerful man on earth is already irrelevant.
Xenos
@Miss Bianca: Yes. If your friend is earning more that USD 100,000 working full-time overseas then there will likely be some tax due. If AMT may apply then a few ways of calculating AMT have to be done as well. The cost for this work will run at least USD 4,000.
Your friend also may need to report non-US bank accounts as per FBAR.
LAC
@Betty Cracker: no I don’t. But I think you are not thinking clearly about the precedent you seem to want set. Most Americans, like myself, get it, take it seriously, and look forward to seeing pressure on congressional hearings. Hopefully, and despite the make up of congress, there will be those hearings. However, I do not need president Obama to spell this out to me. What I need is to see a functional congress doing its job to insure that the security and ethics laws of this country are upheld in this new administration. And a flushing out of those who will not uphold the laws in the mid terms.
A lot of us knew the stakes going in to the election. I do not need him to prove his relevance or legacy. I will miss him and hope that we can get his even tempered intelligent leadership in the next candidate. And when that occurs we will recognize it and be better engaged citizens, and not half asleep waiting for daddy to wake us up.
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker: I hope you see her response to you in this regard. She is a meth addled buffoon in Cloud Cuckoo Land who has strenuously argued Obama is infallible in any situation or decision. “Hopefully” “hope” “functional” “insure” “security” “ethics” “upheld” “uphold”.
Betty Cracker
@Corner Stone: I don’t know about “meth-addled,” but yeah, there are commenters for whom PBO can do no wrong, ever. And it’s especially amusing when he changes course and they pretend they were in favor of the specified action / in on the eleventy-dimensional chess move all along. (See old threads on Syria for hilarious examples of this whiplash.) Oh well. If it’s your thing to assign infallibility to a politician, you could do worse than to choose PBO.
Vhh
@Mnemosyne: Anyone who can get dual citizenship in any civilized country should do so. There is no downside except for certain very high security US jobs (and even then, it is case by case for Aussies, Brits, Canadians, or Kiwis and probably other allies). And it can take quite a while, so best not to dither.
LAC
@Corner Stone: and you are a fucking drunk bully whose level of hypocrisy is only matched by your arrogance and stupidity. Btw I hope that every word is spelled correctly and you can read them through your red rimmed eyes. Now, go have your angry fourth drink.
And Betty cracker, given some of your posts over this period, you are not exactly the voice of reason here. You defend Clinton vigorously but if I defend president Obama, I am deluded. Ok, got it clear now.
LAC
http://wpo.st/S7QL2
Corner Stone
@LAC: Squeal little piggy! Squeal!
m.j.
Start practicing.
Betty Cracker
@LAC: I’ve defended PBO plenty, but feel free to rearrange reality into whatever configuration works for you.
Ian
@tobie:
Double edged sword. We may win the immediate battle but will suffer for it down road. But, since you cannot trust those chickenfuckers to even fuck chickens, why not use every tool at our disposal?
LAC
@Corner Stone: drink, little ass, drink!
LAC
@Betty Cracker: thanks! You too!
Corner Stone
@LAC: SQUUEEEEAAALL!! Squeal you stuck little piggy!
LAC
@Corner Stone: could you take your sad ass elsewhere and continue to pollute that other thread with your drunken ramblings. You just prove my point (and many others) that you are nothing but an alcoholic bully. I wish you would get help.You must alienate so many people outside of this blog as well.
But keep up the deliverance crap. It is all your beer soaked brain can handle. Good night asshole.
Corner Stone
@LAC: Nice try, piggy! Squueee!! Squeeee!!! *squick* *squick* *squick*.
Listen. You are stuck on your own pike. We get it. Betty put you on it and then you lied about what she said and doubled down. You’re a little piggy that got stuck. Squeal for us, piggy.
Ian
@Corner Stone:
Democracy, how does it work again? We must be wary of all fascism, even if it is a “well, we know better than you sheeple so we are going to do whatever we want against the law’