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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Our Failed Media Experiment, (Up)Chuck Todd Edition

Open Thread: Our Failed Media Experiment, (Up)Chuck Todd Edition

by Anne Laurie|  December 10, 20161:11 pm| 70 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Looks Like I Picked the Wrong Week to Stop Sniffing Glue, Our Failed Media Experiment

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How helpful is it for the CIA's reputation around the world if the next US questions their findings so publicly? Good luck Mike Pompeo

— Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

Is the next Commander-in-Chief is signaling that the CIA won't be a major player in his national security team?

— Chuck Todd (@chucktodd) December 10, 2016

? The ? major ? signal ? is ? that ? Russia ? interfered ? in ?the ? election ? https://t.co/t656yDY2n6

— Kelsey D. Atherton (@AthertonKD) December 10, 2016

I first became aware of the rumors of a break between Comey’s FBI and the CIA when ex-CIA guy Evan McMullin stepped in to challenge Trump. How about you guys?

Trump & Bannon vs. the Deep State will be fun to watch. Though it would be much more fun if they did it on a remote island rather than DC.

— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) December 10, 2016

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Previous Post: « Trump’s election was illegitimate. Now what?
Next Post: If I ever lose my faith in you »

Reader Interactions

70Comments

  1. 1.

    Roger Moore

    December 10, 2016 at 1:21 pm

    I think people are missing the real target of this latest talk about Russia compromising the election. It isn’t aimed at the US at all; it’s almost certainly too late for us. This is aimed at people in Germany and France, so they won’t let their elections be compromised.

  2. 2.

    XTPD

    December 10, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    Anyone think comparisons of the heads of NBC and CNN to Streicher and Al Rosenberg are inappropriate? ‘Cause when I apologized for doing that at LGM, three Jewish commenters said the original comment was totally justified.

  3. 3.

    germy

    December 10, 2016 at 1:23 pm

    @Roger Moore: I read that Merkel is next on their list.

    And what happened in Italy?

  4. 4.

    Quinerly

    December 10, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    Mrs. Greenspan reporting that Tillerson is Trump’s SOS pick.

  5. 5.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 10, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    MSNBC says it’s Tillerson for Sec of State.

  6. 6.

    Trentrunner

    December 10, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    Andrea Mitchell is reporting that Exxon’s Tillerson will be Secretary of State.

    John Bolton will be Deputy Secretary of State.

    (She didn’t mention Hillary’s emails, but only because of the 140-char. limit.)

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 10, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    @Quinerly: @Iowa Old Lady: hard to believe, in light of recent events, that he wants to submit himself to the questions of those I’m sure he considers middle management. And… assuming the CIA has more than we know, isn’t this gonna make them go ballistic?

  8. 8.

    Mike in NC

    December 10, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    We all could have guessed that Romney would have no role in a Trump administration. Trump merely wanted to humiliate him publicly, because Trump is above all else a vindictive childlike asshole who enjoys settling scores.

  9. 9.

    Quinerly

    December 10, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    It’s all too surreal.

  10. 10.

    Eljai

    December 10, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    Cheeto Benito kept bringing up Tillerson but pundits kept talking about Rmoney. Typical.

  11. 11.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 10, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    @Eljai: both parties, hair furor and the Broder cultists, see a peer in their chosen candidate; He sees a tycoon, a mogul, a transnational MOU, they see a VSP who didn’t mean all those things he had to say four years ago, old top.

  12. 12.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 1:37 pm

    To repeat myself from the thread below, who could have imagined that conservatives and Republicans would go from fearing a Russian takeover to championing it within a single generation? And it’s apparently all on the basis of, At least the Russians aren’t Democrats. White straight male supremacy is a much stronger international unifying force than I ever realized.

    At least we’ll never have to accidentally stumble across Red Dawn on teevee again since it has that whole awkward plot about our New Best Friends conquering us. In fact, there’s a whole slew of 1980s movies and teevee that will need to go down the memory hole now.

  13. 13.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 10, 2016 at 1:38 pm

    @Trentrunner: A fucking oil exec as SoS ROFL.

  14. 14.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    At least we’ll never have to accidentally stumble across Red Dawn on teevee again since it has that whole awkward plot about our New Best Friends conquering us. In fact, there’s a whole slew of 1980s movies and teevee that will need to go down the memory hole now.

    And St Reagan Maximums too

  15. 15.

    Ridnik Chrome

    December 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    “You can’t make a man understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” (Upton Sinclair)

  16. 16.

    Baud

    December 10, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Wolverines everywhere are sad.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    December 10, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @Mike in NC: Three very public “kiss my ring” meetings and all Trump surrogates stating that Romney needed to apologize for the things he said.
    If it weren’t Trump doing it, I would be reveling in the Last Humiliation of Romney.

    ETA, because now Romney can never say a negative word about Trump. Or he will be blasted to bits about how he crawled for the job to work for Trump now he’s just a sore, bitter loser wanna-be who couldn’t cross the finish line.

  18. 18.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 10, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    So what the hell does Tillerson have to add to the department? Is this a patronage appointment and Bolton will really be in charge?

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    1) We already notified the Germans, we were too late as the Russians had already begun:
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/us-intelligence-officials-warned-europe-about-russian-hacker

    2) The Germans are on top of it. The BND and BfD are already working this:
    http://www.politico.eu/article/german-intelligence-chief-russian-hackers-targeting-us-bruno-kahl-vladimir-putin/
    and
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-russia-cyber-idUSKCN0Y41FC

    It is important to remember that the BND was started by a former NAZI Intelligence commander who ran counter-Soviet intel for NAZI Germany during WW II. He convinced the US Military Occupation Government officials that 1) The Soviet Union was a greater threat than him and other NAZI officers and officials in the post World War II world and 2) his network was still largely in place and he could quickly get it back up and running on behalf of US efforts to check the Soviets coming out of WW II within a rebuilt and restructured Germany. As a result the BND has always had one eye focusing east.

  20. 20.

    Ridnik Chrome

    December 10, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Silver linings…

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    December 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Gehlen Organization?

  22. 22.

    debbie

    December 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    That vindictive childlike asshole needs to consider that his days as President could end before they begin.

    Go to it, CIA!

  23. 23.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: The Congressional GOP did not include a renewal on Russian economic sanctions either in the CR or in a separate bill prior to the 114th Congress ending last night at midnight. As a result the sanctions can be stopped with simple Executive Branch action taken by the Secretary of State. This is why the final push was for a Russophile – Tillerson or Rohrbacher. My guess is that Carter Page was the original person they wanted, but the leak of his promising a lifting of sanctions to Russian officials when in Russia late last Spring killed that. So they had to find someone else that would do it. Tillerson has spent a lot of time in Russia, he has a business deal for exploration with Russia’s state owned petroleum company. Between the frequent visits and the business deal, I’m sure there is plenty of kompromat.

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    @Corner Stone: Yep, the Gehlen Org. In a lot of ways we got played by Gehlen himself – he played us off against the Soviets in the early years. But the BND ultimately sorted itself and it has watching Moscow in its DNA.

  25. 25.

    max

    December 10, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    I first became aware of the rumors of a break between Comey’s FBI and the CIA when ex-CIA guy Evan McMullin stepped in to challenge Trump. How about you guys?

    Rumors? I kinda thought the CIA guy running on a NeverTrump platform while the FBI fiddles in public over Hill emails was pretty overt enough, no need for rumors. I assume the NSA was backing Hill.

    Drezner:

    Trump & Bannon vs. the Deep State will be fun to watch.

    Um, Deep State versus everybody (or not-rich Americans) has been going on for at least a year and a half. Longer.

    Though it would be much more fun if they did it on a remote island rather than DC.

    ‘Root for fatal injuries.’

    max
    [‘Patriotism has gone Galt.’]

  26. 26.

    Adrift

    December 10, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    because now Romney can never say a negative word about Trump. Or he will be blasted to bits about how he crawled for the job to work for Trump now he’s just a sore, bitter loser wanna-be who couldn’t cross the finish line.

    And the last of the “moderate” and “adult” repubs goes down in humiliating, burning flames. Rmoney may have dodged a bullet but his ego put him in the path of that bullet. Looks like the White Horse has been sent to the glue factory.

  27. 27.

    mai naem mobile

    December 10, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    I have to wonder if he picked Nikki Haley to get rid of a potential opponent in 2020. I mention this because Haley is the only normal app so far. Unqualified but normal. He won’t go after Brian SandovAL to keep Nevada GOP.

  28. 28.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Since I’m indulging myself with nightmare scenarios today, how long before Comrade Trump closes down our German bases and pulls those troops and equipment back to the US?

  29. 29.

    ruemara

    December 10, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    I think the worst part of this is that too many conservatives will be ok with this. As long as a white guy who’s one of them is in charge, they are fine with the national leadership of a major party and the incoming government not just being corrupt but an entirely puppet government of one of our biggest enemies – who we fucking defeated economically decades ago for a wary peace. How are the mighty fallen, and the weapons of war perished!

  30. 30.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 10, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: sounds like a fine upstanding young man.

  31. 31.

    Corner Stone

    December 10, 2016 at 2:02 pm

    @mai naem mobile: Apparently the person who takes over as Gov for Haley is a big Trump supporter/crony. So, reward.

  32. 32.

    mai naem mobile

    December 10, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    @Adrift: I have issues with Romney but I don’t think it’s his ego. I think Romney was supposed to be the LDS rep in the admin. They like somebody in any admin to look out for their interesrs.

  33. 33.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 10, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    @max: how do you get “deep state vs. everybody” right after you said the CIA was #nevertrump?

  34. 34.

    Betty Cracker

    December 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    If Trump really has picked Tillerson for SecState, Putin will be thrilled. From the Dallas Morning News:

    Few Americans are closer with Putin than Tillerson, who has long represented Exxon’s interests in Russia.

    “He has had more interactive time with Vladimir Putin than probably any other American with the exception of Henry Kissinger,” John Hamre, a deputy defense secretary during the Clinton administration and president of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank where Tillerson is a board member, told the Wall St. Journal.

    In 2011 Exxon beat out BP and other competitors in a historic deal giving it access to Arctic and other deposits in Russia, while allowing state-owned Rosneft its first-ever access to energy projects in the United States. The next year, “the Kremlin bestowed the country’s Order of Friendship decoration” on Tillerson, the Journal reported.

    Payback?

  35. 35.

    jharp

    December 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    Was going to watch the Army Navy game this afternoon to free my mind of Trump.

    And now I hear that fucking asshole Trump is going to be on the TV at the half?

    No fucking way do I watch now. Not a fucking chance.

    Does anyone know this to be true or false?

    Thanks in advance.

  36. 36.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    “It’s not even his crony! It’s Vladimir Putin’s!”

  37. 37.

    Adrift

    December 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    @mai naem mobile: In that case they made a poor decision as Rmoney was an obvious target, considering his chastising of Trump. He is lucky he was cast aside delicately now and not publicly pantsed by the Orange shitgibbon had he been appointed SOS.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @Mnemosyne: A long time. Base realignment and closing is done by Congress in conjunction with the DOD.

    The larger worry is we are far, far too light in footprint in Europe. V Corps’ colors were cased upon their return from their last deployment as the Corps/Theater headquarter’s element in Afghanistan in 2012. They went away in 2013. 1st Armored Division was reallocated out of Germany and to FT Bliss in Texas.

    This has been a problem even without Putin’s activities since 2014. Given we are still running a NATO Training Mission in Afghanistan (NTM-A) and a Combined Joint Task Force in Iraq to cover Iraq and Syria, having only three corps – I Corps, III Corps, and XVIII Airborne Corps – is insufficient. I Corps is aligned/allocated to US Army Pacific. III Corps is aligned/allocated to US Army Central, and XVIII ABN is the global response corps intended to deploy in case of emergency anywhere. Now here’s your problem: I Corps’ job is being available to respond in the Asia-Pacific AOR. III Corps just got back this summer from running the CJTF in Iraq. XVIII ABN is now running it. This means we have two of our three remaining Corps in almost constant rotation. We have almost no theater army left in Europe because V Corps is gone and 1 AD is now in Texas. We have no actual theater army for Africa – just forces that can be allocated if need be. They have one brigade combat team aligned to them, that’s it. And because of the sequester, not all of these elements – Service Component Commands, Corps, and Divisions are staffed at 100%.

    We are far, far to light. We need at least one, if not two more conventional corps to handle the operational tempo. I’m a big believer that we need far greater Special Operations Forces (SOF) capacity as well. Especially, Civil Affairs – we have far too few of them and the process to get the new sub-specialty of Military Support to Governance (which brings Civil Affairs back to its historic roots/role) has been limping along after its original proponent was promoted and reassigned.

    We also need a significant increase in both State Department side foreign service officers and USAID side foreign service officers! We have the equivalent of one brigade’s worth (about 4,500 personnel) of the former. I’m not even sure we have that many of the latter!

  39. 39.

    Botsplainer

    December 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    Hard to believe I’m going to pin my hopes on an international order organized along lines where the reliance will have to be along the safety and good order that Beijing requires.

    Any State Department involving the Waleus is going to be nuts.

    In talking to a Trump voting friend today, his greatest desire was not for a cooperative world order, but one where we are respected and “feared”, which I believe to be the predominant conservative requirement. The sooner the overreach and catastrophe occur, the safer we’ll all be.

  40. 40.

    maya

    December 10, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    Will Red State cities and towns now fall all over themseleves to have ‘brother’ cities and towns in Russia? Who’ll get Vladivostok, Miami?

  41. 41.

    Nethead Jay

    December 10, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    It is a strange state of affairs that I find myself rooting for the CIA and the Deep State. And yeah, the whispers about McMullin’s campaigh seem like they were right. And it seems like he and the structures behind him aren’t going away, quite interesting.

  42. 42.

    Betty Cracker

    December 10, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Botsplainer: Does your Trump voting friend think Putin’s Poodle will be “feared”?

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I think he’s pushing 70.

  44. 44.

    Adrift

    December 10, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    Has the right forgotten about the annexation of Crimea? I thought we were supposed to be all up in arms about Putin’s aggression, yet I have yet to hear a peep from anyone in the repub leadership (or the Vichy media) about this.

  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    December 10, 2016 at 2:30 pm

    @jharp: Donnie was on the Twitter machine saying he would be at the game. “As a show of support for our Armed Forces…” Because nothing supports our Armed Forces like sitting in a sky box at a football stadium for a few minutes, amirite?

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    aimai

    December 10, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @Botsplainer: Yes, since the goal of the Trump voter is swagger/masculine pride/penis extension every single thing that makes them think that Trumps picks piss off liberals is a good thing. The only way they will realize what is really going on and come to care about it is if Trump’s eventual humiliation on the world stage becomes their humiliation. Humilitaions that matter to them will be psychological and psycho-sexual–discovering that one of Trump’s wives cuckolded him, coming to believe that Putin “owns” Trump rather than respects him, when/if his picks for secretary of state etc… make very public pratfalls and are publicly humiliated in ways that can’t be blown off as “just truth talking” or “authentic” or “brash.”

    Way, way back when I took Ec 10 as an undergraduate our teaching assistant told us that Americans tended to mistake things like economic policy and the exchange rates for money for sexual prowess and to value things that made them feel “dominant” and “masculine” and powerful rather than things that were economically effective or beneficial for the country or for workers (or even for capital). That was the first time someone explained this pathology, which has become so startlingly clear under Trump, but its always been true.

    A large number of voters vote to assuage enormous psychological and psycho-sexual humiliation and fear. So how they interpret the antics of Twitler (thanks unknown internet friend) is going to be done through this lens. If they feel he is bestriding the world as a colossus, they think they are. If he takes a public prat-fall, is publicly humiliated, revealed to be a public laughing stock rather than a swaggering bully, they will feel humiliated and abandon him.

    This will happen not when the Russians release a sex tape of him raping an underage girl, but when the sex tape turns out to be of Trump engaged as a submissive to a dominatrix.

  47. 47.

    aimai

    December 10, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @Nethead Jay: Christ, if they really wanted to get rid of Trump the deep state did a shitty, shitty, job. I could have done better and I’m a god damned housewife.

  48. 48.

    jharp

    December 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Thank you kindly.

    I will be sure to not turn the game on.

  49. 49.

    Woodrowfan

    December 10, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    there has never been any love lost between CIA and FBI.

  50. 50.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Base realignment and closing is done by Congress in conjunction with the DOD.

    Given Congress’s kowtowing to Comrade Trump, this is not nearly as comforting as you seem to think it should be.

    Sorry, I’m having kind of a panic day. I may need to concentrate on picking out a period dress for the upcoming Jane Austen Tea Dance and work on my novel which is safely set 200 years in the past.

  51. 51.

    Another Scott

    December 10, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Donnie and his minions are bigly bad news, but they’re not going to win everything unless we give up. In 1980 Reagan and the GOP had a genuine landslide, a bigger majority in the Senate, was liked by lots and lots of people, and came in during a recession and disillusionment. None of those things apply to Donnie. They’re not 10-feet tall.

    We have to fight them. We have to make them own it. But we have to keep our heads, also too.

    Enjoy your weekend!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    @Mnemosyne: No member of Congress is in favor of BRAC. Its not a winner for any of them.

  53. 53.

    Michael Bersin

    December 10, 2016 at 3:01 pm

    Oh, no. Not John Bolton.

  54. 54.

    MazeDancer

    December 10, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    @Michael Bersin:

    Oh, no. Not John Bolton.

    Pretty much all there is to say. And among the things that we might say when he drops his long desired bomb on Iran. Here’s his 2015 op-ed urging same.

  55. 55.

    SciNY

    December 10, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    @Mnemosyne: yeah, they’ll have to remake Top Gun about a US fighter pilot who’s grounded on-base & bides his time singing karaoke & grabbing you-know-what. Meanwhile cool Russians wearing aviators drop bombs on those bad Syrian rebels to bail out their buddy, Bashar al-Assad.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Trump is installing a BFF of Putin’s as Secretary of State. What resistance to any of his plans do you see coming from Congress?

    If Comrade Trump tells Republicans in Congress to close our bases in Germany, McConnell and Ryan will run in front of the cameras to tell the media what a terrific idea it is.

  57. 57.

    Citizen_X

    December 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    And St Reagan Maximums too

    “Mr. Putin, tear down my opponent!”

  58. 58.

    Davis X. Machina

    December 10, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    If Comrade Trump tells Republicans in Congress to close our bases in Germany, McConnell and Ryan will run in front of the cameras to tell the media what a terrific idea it is.

    I can make a list of progressives who would be right behind them, camera-ready, if you like.

  59. 59.

    Davis X. Machina

    December 10, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    @Adrift:There’s a difference. It’s Putin. So it’s not a unilateral violation of another state’s sovereign territory in violation of a shelf full of law. It’s a man’s man takin’ what he wants, and daring the pussified West to stop him. Which is different. And makes them hard in their pants.

    IOW, aimai is right.

  60. 60.

    cmorenc

    December 10, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    Its obvious that pence is who is really choosing cabinet picks and not trump – if trump himself was actually doing the choosing the mix would likely be far more eclectic and not so consistently hard-right ideologically. Trumps extent of influence is mainly reflected in his obvious preference for obscenely wealthy billionaires among the hard-liners transition chief pence is offering up, whenever one is in the selection array suggested. Y pence

  61. 61.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    @cmorenc:

    If Pence is really making the cabinet picks, then he’s just as in thrall to Putin as Trump is.

    The Exxon guy didn’t get picked because of his industry ties or because he’s a billionaire. He got picked because he’s a buddy of Comrade Putin.

  62. 62.

    Gator90

    December 10, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @XTPD: FWIW, it would have been 4 Jewish commenters if I had read that portion of that thread.

  63. 63.

    Michael Bersin

    December 10, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    @MazeDancer:

    The transcript doesn’t do justice to the experience. It was frightening to witness it in person.

  64. 64.

    Brachiator

    December 10, 2016 at 4:18 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: So how does this all play out? You have offered a reasonable opinion that some of the military people Trump has selected are honorable men (Flynn excepted). But he is mixing this with selections with a strong pro Russia bias (Flynn included). And for extra fun, Trump has taken a swipe at the CIA for falling for the weapons of mass destruction nonsense.

    What might this mean for US foreign policy. Could this put a wedge between the US and NATO. Why should any other Western nation trust the US? And would Trump care if his inclination is towards Fortress America nationalism?

    Bonus question. Given warm relations between Trump and Putin, is Edward Snowden in danger if he remains in Russia?

  65. 65.

    MazeDancer

    December 10, 2016 at 4:23 pm

    @Michael Bersin:

    The transcript doesn’t do justice to the experience. It was frightening to witness it in person.

    Even with a new bottle of wine, if needed, in the kitchen, couldn’t even read past a few remarks. Brave of you to endure, and live to tell the tale.

  66. 66.

    Pogonip

    December 10, 2016 at 4:54 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: The only thing they like less than BRACing is working.?

  67. 67.

    Michael Bersin

    December 10, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @MazeDancer:

    Over a period of seven years every June I had the opportunity to cover speeches and extensive (depending on the individual) Q & A of individuals involved in politics and government across the political spectrum. Karl Rove was definitely the sleaziest. Saint John Danforth was the most sanctimonious. John Bolton was the most frightening. The Bolton event was from 2010. Back then I thought, “He must never get close to the levers of government power. Ever.” And here we are.

    Parents – get your draft age kids their passports. Iran is next.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    December 10, 2016 at 5:50 pm

    @Michael Bersin: Of course, Putin is trying to improve relations with Iran, so the old idea of a war with an isolated Iran is kinda problematic these days…

    Not that it would stop Bolton and his PNAC cronies, but it would give lots of others pause.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 10, 2016 at 6:02 pm

    @Brachiator: I don’t know. I think part of what you’re seeing here is IC pushback, but I can’t prove it. And that includes the IC vs the FBI.

  70. 70.

    Mnemosyne

    December 10, 2016 at 8:51 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Bonus question. Given warm relations between Trump and Putin, is Edward Snowden in danger if he remains in Russia?

    You funny. Snowden is going to get a pardon and a tickertape parade from Comrade Trump. After all, Trump’s victory wouldn’t have happened without Snowden’s valuable assistance in giving Russia all of that inside information about our NSC infrastructure that he stole from us.

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