1) There seems to be a lot of confusion, some genuine, some very dishonest, about what is intended by talking up Hillary's pop vote totals
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
7) in 2000 Gore won and GOPs controlled the senate by only 1 vote. But Bush 'won' anyway as was treated (and acted) like he had a mandate.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
15) So when they win, regardless of circumstances, press & even many ostensible liberals fall in line w/demands liberals stop being liberal.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
17) but here's the thing: Hill's campaign seriously erred in ignoring key swing states. But she still is getting a historic pop vote margin
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
19) by any reasonable standard of judgment, clear majority of voters did not want Trump in office and most of those voters wanted Hillary.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
24) That's literally what is happening to liberals. But we didn't just win the pop vote b/c of a quirk. We won it BIG. There are more of us.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
25) if anything, we're the ignored majority. Not conservatives, who literally cannot win fair and square.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
26) we have to keep reminding people whose default setting is to surrender that clearly they problem isn't that Dems are too liberal.
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
30) In summary: we should do more of what we've done not less unless we wanna lose forever. THAT's why we keep bringing up the pop vote. FIN
— Ross A. Lincoln (@Rossalincoln) December 7, 2016
Apart from keeping all that in mind, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up the week?
Schlemazel
Those same people are trying awfully hard to convince us if we just act more like Republicans we can win. Many will be the first to whine that there is no difference between the Dems & the GOP. I think it is OK to ignore them
And, since I am first gud morning all
OzarkHillbilly
Is democracy in America dead? No, but it is very seriously ill.
SiubhanDuinne
@Schlemazel:
Morning, Sclemazel.
Morning, OzarkHillbilly.
I’m going back to bed now.
rikyrah
Morning, Everyone???
rikyrah
@SiubhanDuinne:
Awe shoot. Just missed you. Morning??
Baud
@rikyrah: Morning, rikyrah.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s too cold for the girl to walk with her wrist problem so the pups and I are headed out!
John S.
@OzarkHillbilly:
The only way to cure an ailing democracy is to make it more democratic. Move Election Day to a weekend or national holiday, make it easier to vote, and provide better access for voters.
Of course none of that will happen under Cheeto Benito, so it’s time for Democrats to mobilize at the local level and get some of this done in the states where it matters.
satby
@Schlemazel: @OzarkHillbilly:Good morning
@SiubhanDuinne: Pleasant dreams
Waiting for my coffee ☕
rikyrah
@Schlemazel:
Of course, we are different. And, that is OK.
satby
@rikyrah: and to you!?
And Baud too!
Baud
Fixed.
OzarkHillbilly
Oh Gawd, remember this guy?
Well, get ready,
Just fuck me running with a rusty pitchfork.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: The business of government is business.
OzarkHillbilly
What the fuck is this? A good morning orgy? Fuck all you fucking good morning fucks!!!
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: Good morning to youuuu!???
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: Good morning Ozark!
satby
So my relentless pushing back on FB and occasionally Twitter resulted in a few lost friends and some asshole signing me up for the PGiC mailing list. I start my days lately throwing out all those emails.
It’s a soap day though as I fill all the orders I got and that means it’ll be a good day, because I enjoy that.
(BALLOONJUICE coupon code for 20% off, if anyone is still interested)
Debbie(aussie)
@OzarkHillbilly:
Good evening ?? (being 9:50pm Friday)
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
ETA: That song is my alarm on my phone.
bemused
Last night Rachel Maddow segment on Public Policy Polling report coming out today showing Trumpbots the biggest believers of totally false statistics and fake news. No surprise but it was shocking to see the super high percentages in the Trump group compared to even other Republicans not Trump fans.
The Trumpbots live in opposite world.
Tokyokie
Good morning, and happy 100th birthday to Issur Danielovitch (aka Kirk Douglas)!
OzarkHillbilly
I’ve always liked Kirk Douglas, but after reading this I may have a serious man crush on him..
I don’t think I’ve ever read a more heart felt endorsement of an actors work.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: It would get annoying to wake up to the same song every day, I think.
satby
@Baud: tell that to my critters.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: STFU, Marion.
Baud
@satby: What song do they wake up to?
Tokyokie
@OzarkHillbilly: I’d always liked Douglas but I think I became an unabashed fan when I heard him on some local radio talk show while he flogging one of his memoirs. A couple of older women called in, and it was clear they’d had crushes on him back in the day, and he went out of his way to be gentlemanly and courtly with them (without flirting). He could have made do with a heartfelt thank you, and they probably would have been thrilled, but he went out of his way to make them feel special. It’s a little thing, to be sure, but the measure of somebody’s character is how you treat those you don’t have to treat nicely. And I doubt he’s voted for a Republican his entire life.
satby
@Baud: This one.
To be more precise, they wake ME up to that song.
Baud
@satby: Heh. That song never gets old. Do they slap you when you don’t get up quickly enough?
satby
@Baud: nope. No cats or dogs in the bedroom, it’s my one concession to my allergies to animals.
danielx
Good morning and yes, it’s turned to serious winter. Two weeks ago I was wearing shorts and a t shirt. Now I wake up with sinus issues and my hands are cracking; time to crank up the humidifier and break out the Eucerin Intensive Repair lotion. (Yes, it does help.)
In other news Chuck Jones, head of Local 1999 of United Steelworkers,continues to maintain that Donald Trump is an ignorant doucherocket. Shown in this clip conversing with Bernie Sanders, drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette. There’s a union guy if ever I saw one, and I’ve seen a lot of them.
Baud
@satby: Wow. You’re allergic and you do all that you do. That’s impressive.
rikyrah
#29 of the Twitter feed is key. Just exactly what are we supposed to compromise on?
The Muslim registry?
Roe v Wade?
Throwing a million DREAMers out of this country?
Bring OK with a racist in word and professional deed as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of this country?
Really?
Seriously?
Iowa Old Lady
How come the most interesting posts on Twitter use multiple tweets? Doesn’t that defeat the supposed point of Twitter? Why not just use Facebook or a blog?
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: The Woofmeister pants when he has to go out at night. Wakes me up every time. But most mornings I have to get him up, all it takes is a couple pats on his side and he’s off the bed. After going out and feeding him, he heads right back to the bed for another hour or more of snuggling with his Mama. When I bring her her morning coffee, he is all but impossible to get out of bed. Growls, really growls, very loudly. Sounds like he’s about to rip my throat out. Then he rolls over onto his back for his morning belly scratching.
debbie
@Baud:
Nothing worse than having principles, I guess.
satby
@Baud: well, I adjust to animals I’m around all the time, so it’s less of a problem than it used to be. It could be coincidence, but having to take Singulair for about a year a few years ago seems to have adjusted my chemistry a bit, I seem less allergic than before, though the asthma I developed is the same. That’s why I mention that particular drug when people complain about animal allergies, it helped me a lot, but it’s not for everyone.
Brachiator
@bemused: Yes!
One of the saddest differences. A large majority of Trump voters are convinced that unemployment increased during Obama’s tenure. They are stuck on a vision of Democratic Party failure which is absolutely false. And they obviously run to conservative news sites and commentary that keep them in their bubble.
Also, Trump people not only believe that Trump won a majority of the popular vote, a good chunk of them believe that all California votes are tainted and should be excluded.
What this means is that Trump supporters have immunized themselves against accepting the idea that Clinton won the popular vote total.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah, the Duke was a dick.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
I’m furious that any democrat would even consider compromise. The only reason to have a registry is to be able to detain the people on it. They will find the flimsiest pretense. And at the same time give him three ribbon cutting photo op on some Chinese made infrastructure project?
No. fuck no. He’s a Nazi.
rikyrah
@bemused:
They truly live in a world of delusion. Which is but another reason to say phuck ’em.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: No, that’s mentally ill. ;-)
debbie
@MomSense:
As in 2002, they will call Dems who don’t fall in line traitors. I expect Elizabeth Warren, among others, to push back very vocally against them.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: that’s my Clayton, he’s a panter if I’m in the same room, but a barker when the others start.
sunny raines
the knee jerk of ‘oh, we (dems) must appeal to the racist WWC’ is full of it. Why would you ever give up what is right, i.e., the social justice platform of the Democratic Party and believing and working for equality – across the board; why would we (Dems) ever give up the constituency of those needing and believing in social justice? Seeking the support of WWC racists, sexists, and bigots would make Dems, republicans. Dems need to figure out how to win without WWC bigots.
rikyrah
@Iowa Old Lady:
I appreciate the Twitter bites. With a click,you can spread the word and pass it on.
satby
@debbie: for any of them to push back We have to keep pushing back too. Starting with the truth of the popular vote.
satby
@rikyrah: yeah, I frequently retweet some of the ones highlighted in this blog.
rikyrah
@sunny raines:
We already know how. What they need to dedicate themselves to is building an arm of the Democratic party whose main focus is obtaining the required Voter ID. Not enough to complain about it. Those Voter ID suppression numbers were the election.
rikyrah
@satby:
I have taken advantage of the BJ coupon. Thanks so much for it. I bought a gift basket. Will the person know who bought it and sent it?
Gindy51
@debbie: His parents named him Marion, you’d be a fake swaggering dick if your parents did that to you.
debbie
@satby:
I agree. Starting now, by pointing out McConnell’s screwing over the retired coal miners yet again. I hope Manchin and the others don’t back off even the slightest.
father pussbucket
“Disenfranchised majority”?
bemused
@Brachiator:
It’s seriously disturbing to me that the Trumpbots are this delusional. I don’t know about clinically delusional but they could use long term therapy at the very least, imo.
Medication too. Lobotomies come to mind but that’s probably going too far…maybe.
rikyrah
The South Korean President has been impeached?
satby
@rikyrah: yes, if you want them to, I will note that in the packing list (with no price). And thank YOU!
p.a.
I’m not on twitter, but I hope something like #presidentnotparttimejob takes off. This thinskinned putz shouldn’t be allowed to keep his lil stubbies in his bidnesses.
OzarkHillbilly
I think I see the problem with our media. They keep using various euphemisms for “complete and total whack-jobs” out of a misplaced desire for political correctness.
Hellbastard
Finished reading How Democratic is the American Constitution by Robert Dahl and currently reading David Dailey’s Ratf*cked. It’s left me pretty pessimistic and afraid that we’re on the cusp of a long period of one-party rule. The Republicans believe that they alone have political legitimacy and are willing to engage in every dirty trick in the book to gain/maintain control. The Constitution certainly isn’t on our side because of the EC and the fact that it assumes a generous amount of good faith from our political leaders. Did they never consider that one party might jam up a SCOTUS appointment strictly for partisan gain? Or that states would gerrymander the hell out of their districts for partisan gain? We won the popular vote by 2.6 million votes, yet still lost the White House and flipped only a handful of congressional seats. OUr message resonates but the founding fathers f*cked us.
So I don’t know… perhaps we should give up on gun control as an issue. Even if we did make some legislative headway there are so many damn guns out there that progress would be glacial at best. Take an L on that, broaden our support, and make progress on matters much more central to our platform, like civil rights.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: Jesus. Which publication wrote that? The NYT?
Dave
@bemused: I get the impression that many know they are lying but it’s easier to a justify their believes if unemployment shot up under Obama instead of trending ever downward. Sooner or later and really sooner though they will believe their own bullshit it’s one of the many reasons that bullshit is dangerous. Now some portion won’t and those will be the ones that heavens no didn’t vote for Trump etc.
Kay
Trump’s Labor Secretary is extremely far Right on really every issue. He’s a long time Right wing activist on everything from abortion to public funding of religious schools. He and DeVos at Education must be the reward for fundamentalist religious who backed Trump. DeVos is a far Right fundie too.
Why isn’t there any focus on the rights of girls and women under Trump? Far Right religious conservatives at Education and Labor will set girls and women back.
rikyrah
@satby:
I already put it in, but didn’t specifically say put a note in it to say who’s it from.
Dave
@Hellbastard: I have that concern myself. Still think that the likely outcomes favor us but it is a concern. And we need to focus on voter rights, gerrymandering, and other structural issues. Republicans won’t but also need to realize that if they cynically lock in power to themselves with a shrinking portion of the population they may succeed in blowing it all up. At a certain point citizens will correctly reach the point where they will not accept that governance. I’d rather avoid it because it will be ugly and possibly apocalyptic it’s just we have to be the ones to prevent it because nothing in the current GOP’s behavior indicates that they are capable of recognizing it. It’s an issue that happens when people that are ensconced in a system and skilled at manipulating it think that the system must last forever.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Rights of girls?
Surely you jest.
After all, his Vice President pick is on record for making a woman have a funeral for a miscarriage.
Make no mistake, Pence is coming for birth control.
sherparick
Apparently, some voters count more than others and in the minds Trump and the Republicans, since they got 58% of the white vote, that means they got a landslide. The 3/5ths rule apparently still lives.
Still, every Democrat, particularly in the Senate, should state “I am representing the 54% of the people who did not vote for Donald Trump and who did not want the ACA, Medicare, and Social Security repealed or the EPA abolished.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: The Guardian: ‘Pizzagate conspiracy’ gunman: ‘I regret how I handled the situation’
Yep, another complete and total whack-job with a gun or 3 or 4 or…
Baud
@Kay:
What’s the point of beating a girl if you can’t do that?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: People praise the Guardian, and maybe compared the NYT it’s awesome, but I’ve seen enough of that sort of crap from them that I would not support them with my money.
Kay
@Hellbastard:
There are many, many competitive governor’s races coming up. There has to be some way to force the Democratic Party to go to state races. I don’t know what the problem is. Everyone says it every year and nothing ever happens. They could conceivably pick up OH, MI, WI, and IL and that’s just the Great Lakes states! There are probably more!
I don’t get it. I don’t know how they can be a national political Party if there is no institutional or Party interest in governing states.
liberal
Anyone seen this connection between Trump’s Labor pick and “Idiocracy”?
Laugh/weep….
Kay
@rikyrah:
Girls and women don’t do well under religious fundamentalists. Ever. Any religion.
liberal
@Kay: Well, I mentioned party elites at LawyersGunsandMoney (comment section), and some idiot responded and put the phrase in scare quotes.
I don’t see how this idea that the current way the Party is run is the bestest there evah was. Doesn’t mean I think we should pick Dean, doesn’t mean we should pick Ellison. Does mean I think we should think about the Iron Law of Institutions.
Baud
@Kay:
What does that mean? What do the GOP do in this area that the Dems do not?
liberal
@rikyrah: Interesting that you mention that. Someone brought up this thing, I don’t remember which state it was, and some other left-of-center scold said “the law mandates burial or cremation, which isn’t the same as a ‘funeral’. Our side shouldn’t lie either.” (Words to that effect.)
Fuck that noise.
JMG
@Kay: I think your experiences might be colored by the lackluster (to be kind) Democratic campaigns for Gov and Senator in your own state in 2014 and 2016. There is and will be plenty of interest in these races. But a national party can’t go in and select candidates. That almost always fails. The candidates have to organically arise from within state politics.
satby
@rikyrah: I got you though.
germy
@OzarkHillbilly: didn’t the pizza guy try to run down some kids with his car a few years back?
tobie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Wait, wait, wait. This sounds like behind the scenes Zuckerberg may be considering a post in the Trump administration. Sheesh. NBC is set to become a propaganda outlet for the Orange Turd. If Zuckerberg joins the administration, Facebook could be next. I admit I’m getting ahead of myself here but this is downright scary!
satby
@liberal: the difference is that Pence’s law was to force individual cremation or burial, like a funeral, instead of treating the miscarriage products the same as all medical waste, which is usually incinerated. When was the last time you heard about an amputee getting their limb back so they could dispose of it personally? It was and is a sadistic concept.
germy
@Brachiator:
What I hear again and again from them is that “the national deficit exploded under Obama” and that with his crazy, liberal spending ways he drove us further into debt. But all he did was end the “creative” bookkeeping of the previous admin. All the stuff that was off the books during the reign of cheney got counted. But that’s not how the Wurlitzer played it for the angry listeners.
MomSense
@Debbie
You have a lot more confidence in Warren than I do. She might say some cathartic things but that’s about it. She was way too quick to offer to work with him IMHO.
liberal
@satby: I agree. Point of my post was to attack the ninny who, on some blog or whatever, was saying that “our side shouldn’t use the word ‘funeral’.”
Not even sure that his splitting of hairs is actually correct, but even if it were, fuck him.
liberal
@germy: Well, part of the problem is that if you don’t know anything about these things, it is true that the deficit exploded under Obama. Thing is, the obvious answer to that is that one should look at the “cyclically adjusted deficit.”
Even somewhat informed people might need a few minutes tutoring to explain that. These fucking idiots who support Trump, OTOH? LOL.
OzarkHillbilly
@JMG: But the national party can feed and nurture state parties in such a way as to invigorate them.
liberal
@JMG: There’s far, far more to leadership and organization than the actual officeholders themselves. There’s all sorts of shit that presumably the state parties could be helped with.
liberal
@OzarkHillbilly: Yep.
liberal
@MomSense: Too early to say.
liberal
@Dave:
I agree, but how do you fix gerrymandering (unless you get a court order)? I would think that it’s a catch-22: to fix the legislatures, you need to fix gerrymandering, but to fix gerrymandering, you fix the legislatures.
Frankly, if our side isn’t gerrymandering the living fuck out of the places we control, we’re crazy. It’s a prisoners dilemma. When the other side kicks you in the nuts 100 times, you start kicking back.
Betty
We have to keep reminding everyone of this: if anything, we’re the ignored majority. Not conservatives, who literally cannot win fair and square.
MomSense
@liberal:
On November fucking 9th she said she was willing to set aside differences to work with Trump. Jesus, make the asshole work for offers of cooperation.
I really don’t think it’s too early to say. I expected better of her and now she has more to prove.
Applejinx
@bemused:
Ya know, all you’d have to do is say nine millimeter lobotomy… and mean it… and you would BE them.
This American experiment has failed if it’s become nothing more than a war between two sides neither of which are capable of looking critically at themselves. I contest this idea that half the country is psychotic and has to be ‘fixed’ or disposed of. It really legitimizes exactly the same attitude on the other side. When you’re really seriously committed to counterprogramming rebrainwashing in the earnest opinion that your own thoughts and attitudes are beyond reproach and there’s nothing conceivable worth noting about the enemy’s thinking, how can you be surprised if they behave as if you are at war?
Yeah they started it… but it’s spread.
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
I’m with Iowa Old Lady. Mr. Lincoln’s tweetstorm is worthwhile, but I’d rather read it in one proper chunk of text.
raven
Both sides do it!
Betty Cracker
@liberal: Is anyone saying that the way the party is currently being run is the best ever? I haven’t heard that. The intraparty controversies I’ve seen play out online and IRL have mostly centered on messaging, which is a very different thing. Most folks seem to agree there’s too much emphasis on the federal races, the state parties need to be more active and field candidates for every race, etc. The only real structural debate I’ve witnessed is the closed vs. open primary question.
OzarkHillbilly
@tobie: That is the inference one could make, but jumping to conclusions is not my way. Besides, I don’t care whether he joins a DEM or GOP admin/senate office/governorship/etc. The last thing I want is another clueless rich business fuck advising on policy of any kind. Running a business is not in any way shape or form like governing.
hovercraft
@OzarkHillbilly: @Baud:
Trump On Cabinet: ‘I Want People That Made A Fortune’ (VIDEO)
Donald Trump on Thursday night defended his decision to select several billionaires to serve in his administration, arguing that he wants successful people to be “negotiating” for the country.
“One newspaper criticized me: ‘Why can’t they have people of modest means?’” Trump said at a victory tour rally in Des Moines, Iowa. “Because I want people that made a fortune! Because now they’re negotiating with you, OK?”
“It’s no different than a great baseball player or a great golfer,” he added. “These people have given up fortunes of income in order to make a dollar a year, and they’re so proud to do it, and you watch, you watch what’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen fast, too.”
These people cheering this shit on deserve that rusty pitchfork. Of course these people are willing to earn a dollar a year, they will be reaping the rewards on the down low, actually probably the not even so down low.
germy
@MomSense: I’ve read that Warren is always busy behind the scenes, as well as making public comments. She isn’t all hat/no cattle. She’s hat, cattle, spurs and saddle.
Dave
@liberal: That may actually be the necessary answer be ruthless about this ourselves until everyone agrees it’s a problem. My personal hope is the 2020 election is a massive wave against Republicans I think there is a fair chance this will be the case but who knows at this point. Since it’s a census year that is best opportunity to unfuck many districts. If this fails then the prospect of disunion (and sadly it won’t likely be peaceful) or basically a dystopian cyberpunk (without the cool visuals) becomes much more likely.
Dave
@liberal: And if that does happen then dealing with those issues needs to be an absolute priority amongst the 1,000 other priorities we will have after the oncoming cluster-fuck.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
liberal: mock
The way the consertards whine about smug liberals sounds like we need to double down on it considering the pure stupidity they’ve sunken into.
hovercraft
Can someone tell this bitch that Barack Obama is not Tiger Woods, I know they are both biracial, but seriously.
Conway On Trump Decision Not To Leave ‘The Apprentice’: Obama Played Golf!
Co-host Alisyn Camerota noted to Conway that any time Trump spends working for “The Apprentice” is time away from his presidential duties.
“Well, okay, but were we so concerned about the hours and hours and hours spent on the golf course of the current president?” Conway asked in response. “I mean, the presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time. Nobody objects to that.”
Camerota pointed out that conservatives have criticized Obama for spending time playing golf and asked if Trump would also continue to play golf.
“Well, maybe he will be. It certainly seems like there’s a lot of time to do it, based on recent precedent, while you’re president of the United States. But the point is the same, that these — whether it’s President Obama or President Donald Trump, the idea that these men are going to be all work and nothing else all the time, it’s just unrealistic because it’s never happened in our lifetimes,” Conway replied.
She touted Trump as a hard worker and said that “if the lawyers and the protocol officers say that he can do that, then he probably is going to say why not.”
Who knew that having a hobby was the same as having a side gig.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Oh yeah? What makes YOU so damn special?
Oh, you’re one of those “democracy” nutjobs? Look, all that matters these days is that the Commander-in-Chief issues COMMANDS, and
the chatteldel>cattlel his subjects do as he commands. Droit du seigneur, anyone? Daily tribute, paid in gold leaf?Of course, if you’re a “real” American, some slack will be cut.
hovercraft
@Kay:
I guess the shitgibbon wants a cabinet molded in it’s own image.
MomSense
@germy:
I know she is very popular here but I’m not impressed. Why offer to work with Trump publicly on day one? Right now we need unified and coordinated in every single public appearance. Make that orange asshole who never did an honest day’s work in his privileged life WORK for every scrap of good will.
He fucking telegraphed the horrible things he planned to do throughout the campaign. He didn’t take any of those horrible things back before November 9th.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@bemused: Well the Trumpbots are conspiracy theorists. How’s that going to work out come Jan 21st for Small Hands Donny when he becomes The Man? Or is Trump going to hide in NYC, and send out tweets about how they won’t let him in the White House? T
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@hovercraft: This is like Small Hands having his picture with Mitt Romney. Trump is supposed to be desperate for the approval of real rich people so bribing them with cabinet positions is one way.
germy
SFAW
@hovercraft:
She must be using the Bizarro-world definition for that description.
How does TEFA manage to find all these liars and generally evil/disgusting people to surround itself with? I don’t KNOW that many people like that, let alone hire them.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
And the question of whether or not to do away with superdelegates. Other than that, you are correct, this is a strawman argument.
manyakitty
@satby: YESSSSSS!!!!! I’M HEADING OVER NOW!!!!
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Baud:
I thought spelling it paedophiles was a nice touch.
Betty Cracker
@SFAW: I’d never heard of Conway until this election cycle, but I’ve since learned she’s been ass-deep in reactionary politics for decades. I find her one of the more repellent members of Trump’s horde of in-house deplorables, and I’m not sure why. It may be the simpering delivery of bone-deep mean content. It’s like an extra layer of dishonesty.
satby
@SFAW: like attracts like. Obviously you aren’t an evil, thieving, liar.
SFAW
@Baud:
You makin’ fun of America’s draft-dodging hero?
germy
@Betty Cracker:
And there’s money in it. Did you see the new yorker magazine profile of her? She and hubby live in a six million dollar house.
Chris
@debbie:
John Wayne was the original chickenhawk. An asshole riddled with manhood issues stemming from the fact that unlike many of his co-stars, he’d never served in war, and who spent the rest of his life trying to compensate for them by playing the tough guy in the public imagination that he was afraid he’d failed to be in real life. I did not know the story of him getting mad at Kirk Douglas for taking on an unmanly role, but it fits him to a tee. He’s the best example I know of the pathology that would later completely take over the country and that’s given us an endless string of blustering phonies like Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, and now Donald Trump.
germy
@SFAW: He had interesting theories about race. No newsletter, fortunately, just some ignorant spouting about Native Americans and AAs during interviews.
SFAW
@satby:
Opinions vary on that. SOME people say I’m not a thief.
But I hear I also have “violent fantasies.”
Shalimar
@OzarkHillbilly: As someone told me long ago, “good morning” is your wish for the person you’re speaking to, not a description of the crappy morning you’re personally having.
hovercraft
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
He is, when he arrived in the City from Queens he was eager to become part of NY Society, initially he got invited to the charity events that was supposed to be his entre into the club, but because he is a cheap f**k, he was soon stricken from the invitees because of his lack of donations. He became known for either not pledging anything, or pledging money that he never actually delivered. That is why he ended up socializing with celebrity types, they are famous but not part of the real movers and shakers of NY. Also too his penchant for loud gaudy displays of his wealth was frowned upon. Hence his friendships with the like of Mike Tyson and Dennis Rodman.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t recall when I first heard about her, but it was 2012 or earlier. But it was pretty clear at that point that she was what some call “a piece of work.” Lying, evil, anti-America — and those are her better qualities.
Dave
@Betty Cracker: For me it’s the faux nice lady schtick over a bone deep viciousness. Same reason Huckabee stands out for me. It’s a minor difference but I prefer assholes that are honest about their viciousness. Conway Huckabee and whatnot add a level of swarminess to the whole thing that is very hard to swallow.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: Oooopps, my bad…
rikyrah
I wish that one of the front pagers would take a look at this Facebook post about Jared Kushner, and his involvement in the election, digitally, and the problems.
Here is the post.
Chris
@Kay:
I think a lot of ordinary voters have a real problem in terms of fixating on the presidency at the expense of the lower levels – in contrast to the wingnuts who started by taking over things at the lowest possible points like school boards and worked their way up from that. It’s especially obvious in the rush to anoint every new shiny object – Obama was this, and more recently it’s been Warren – as the White House candidate. Never mind that sometimes, the shiny object might be doing more good where they are.
hovercraft
@SFAW:
Rats travel in packs, don’t they. These rats have been lurking in the sewers, just waiting for the chance to attack, and now that a king rat has emerged, they are ready to spread the plague. The last big outbreak of the plague in the 14 th century reduced the worlds population by 20 to 25 %*, by the time this crew is done they may be able to top that. Between the danger of real fighting wars, promises to cut off funding for foreign aid, refusing to fight global climate change, I’m sure their efforts will great.
* I’m only half kidding about these bozos being that big a threat to humanity.
Taylor
@OzarkHillbilly: TCM occasionally has a making-of film about Lust For Life, shot during the filming. It includes Kirk speaking fluent French to a woman who actually knew Van Gogh (and translating for the camera).
I’ve always had a lot of respect for Douglas. His support for Trumbo getting credit for Spartacus. His deliberately playing second fiddle to Burt Lancaster in Seven Days In May (a film he produced). Very interesting guy.
OzarkHillbilly
@Shalimar: Fuck that shit, I want everyone else to be as miserable as I am.
Chris
@Dave:
Disunion will never happen with Republicans in power. Any attempt at secession or rebellion that comes out of the blue states will be put down in an instant, and probably leave the relevant state(s) much worse off for it.
Cyberpunk, hell. They want us to end up looking like the Alliance from Firefly, but with their level of competence, we’ll end up looking more like ex-Independent hellholes on the rim.
hovercraft
@germy: She and hubby live in a six million dollar house.
Taylor
@Chris:
On the set of The Expendables, John Ford referred to everyone by their military rank, to embarrass Wayne who had sat out the war.
He is still magnificent in The Searchers!
OzarkHillbilly
@Taylor:
And the in your face way he went about it.
Dave
@Chris: That’s a fact
WereBear
@Chris: Not only that, he stole his whole persona from Yakima Canutt, the pioneering stuntman.
I was never much of a fan, but now his appearance in a film results in MST3k style heckling from me. Fortunately, Mr WereBear is secure in his masculinity, and doesn’t mind.
manyakitty
@satby: Sent you a message on Etsy
OzarkHillbilly
@Taylor:
As far as I am concerned it is his best. I suspect playing an unapologetic racist came naturally to him.
gogol's wife
@Betty Cracker:
One thing that pisses me off about SNL is that they depict her as an unwilling victim of Trump’s craziness, rolling her eyes and sighing. Totally untrue. She’s crazier than he is.
Chris
@Taylor:
Kind of a dick move from John Ford, but John Wayne has so many instances of being an asshole like that in ways that he hadn’t earned (exhibit A, Kirk Douglas) that it’s hard to feel sorry.
Oh, sure. I still love his movies and watch them all the time. (How could I not? He starred in “The Longest Day”). But he’s still an asshole.
SenyorDave
@OzarkHillbilly: His support for Trumbo getting credit for Spartacus.
Should have had Kellyanne Conway play Hedda Hopper. Role was tailor-made for her.
Just One More Canuck
@OzarkHillbilly: someone needs a hug
gogol's wife
@Taylor:
And in They Were Expendable as well.
hovercraft
I missed this yesterday.
Remember when she was being touted as one of our brave progressive heroes? I think she is dangerous and misguided.
SenyorDave
@Betty Cracker: I’d never heard of Conway until this election cycle, but I’ve since learned she’s been ass-deep in reactionary politics for decades. I find her one of the more repellent members of Trump’s horde of in-house deplorables, and I’m not sure why. It may be the simpering delivery of bone-deep mean content. It’s like an extra layer of dishonesty
She’s nasty for the sake of being nasty. Saw her on MTP last Sunday (I was at the gym and it was the only TV getting reception) with Clinton pollster Joel Benenson. He’s a smart, thoughtful guy and she had to taunt him a few time with we won, get over it. At the end she tried to make up and said Joel and I have to stick together, we’re just a couple of Jersey gals and guys. He rather quickly said, I’m from New York, and there was an obvious edge in his voice. Must have been a very unpleasant five minutes for him.
hoodie
@Chris: My dad spent a lot of time in LA before WWII when he was stationed at Pendleton, back when it was kind of a small town and you could hang out with movie stars in the various clubs around town. Like a lot of Marines from that era (e.g., William Manchester), he had no love for John Wayne. The scuttlebutt he heard in those days in LA was that Wayne was gay.
WereBear
@Dave: Both she and Ann Coulter show their character on their faces; which resemble that of a shaved wolverine about to attack.
Chris
@WereBear:
The thing about his insecurities is that as far as I know, he didn’t actually have anything to feel guilty about. Unlike Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Chambliss, and countless future wingnuts, he wasn’t a draft-dodger. He just didn’t volunteer, unlike many of his co-stars. There’s no shame in that. Only he thought that there was, because of his own ideas about manhood and valor, but he couldn’t make himself actually live up to them.
And instead of learning and accepting something about himself (namely, “I’m not cut out for that kind of thing”) and possibly about life (namely, “maybe I should rethink my ideas about tough guys and manliness”), he basically spent the rest of his life in denial.
Starfish
@JMG: The party not having any representation at all in some places is a problem. Single party states are bad.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft:
Those of us who weren’t blinded by the pure light of Saint Bernard’s presence kept pointing this out, and were shushed as Clinton partisans.
Betty Cracker
@hovercraft: Even back when we weren’t facing down an incoming authoritarian kleptocracy, Americans’ reflexive genuflection to the military has creeped me out. I’m not anti-military — my husband and brother served, as has every generation of my family going back to the Revolution (we’re like Lt. Dan’s family). But sometimes folks take the deference to extremes, IMO. We’ve seen that movie before, and it doesn’t end well.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear: What do you have against wolverines?
Starfish
@OzarkHillbilly: I wonder if this section was originally a part of Sheryl Sandberg’s contract that Zuckerberg applied to his own. Sandberg *does* have political aspirations.
hovercraft
@gogol’s wife:
I think she’s friends with someone there,in the skit they did of her waking up and floating down through her house, the depiction of her house was almost an exact replica to her actual house which was later shown in that spread. The media gives her a pass because many of them are friends with her. She has been a regular on their shows for years. Even Bill Maher calls her a friend, which is why even he gave her a softball interview. She gets to go on TV and lie with impunity because her friends can all vouch for her being a great person. Right Chuck Todd?
Dave
@Betty Cracker: I’m a veteran myself and I’m incredibly uncomfortable with it that and it’s used as an out for actually dealing with veteran’s issues (which have been handled very well under the current administration Thanks Obama). I mostly use as a way in arguments with certain groups to make it harder for them to dismiss me out of hand where it can be effective.
cmorenc
@SenyorDave:
Actually, the perfect movie role for Kellyanne Conway would be the lead role in a biopic of Ayn Rand. As in the classic Beatles Song, “all she’d have to do is…act naturally”. Her face even strongly resembles Rand, though Conway would have to chop and dye her hair to completely get the “look”. Query who would play the role of Alan Greenspan.
JMG
@Starfish: I live in one, except it has a Republican governor, a common practice by voters in Mass. as a check on the overwhelmingly Democratic legislature. The South has ALWAYS been a one-party region, whichever party was the white supremacy party. As some Southern states change, that changes a little, too. The Rust Belt states with Republican governors and legislatures are hardly one party states, they’re just places where Republicans won big in offyear elections
Taylor
@gogol’s wife: Another great Ford film.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
Post-Vietnam is when it spins completely out of control. On the one hand with endless crusades against fictional hippies who don’t respect the troops enough, and on the other hand with a public that, as it gets more and more disconnected from the military, treats it more and more as an institution of superheroes who’re here to save us all.
WereBear
@OzarkHillbilly: I have nothing against wolverines, who occupy a sort of Malthusian-influence niche in the eco-system. Weasels are among the few animal types who kill without being hungry.
Just noting a kind of predatory resemblance. :)
schrodinger's cat
@hovercraft: Her more Hindu-than-thou stance and her embrace of the most reactionary Hindu right wingers is also bothersome.
Another Scott
@rikyrah:
Boehner broke the word “compromise” in 2010:
I wonder where “a lot of Americans” got the idea that “compromise == sell me out”? Maybe Boehner and his party gave them that idea?
A governmental system that depends on compromise is broken when compromise is impossible.
How to fix it? Dunno. Humpty Dumpty dictionaries (“it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less”) and demonizing people who don’t follow the Teaparty line (“traitors”, etc.) make it very difficult to even talk to each other. And it makes attempts to talk futile.
Most of the people in Congress aren’t in the “Freedom Caucus” and most of the people there aren’t stupid ideologues. It’s really only a small minority that is driving the narrative and trying to burn it all down. But most of the GOP is too afraid of them to stand up to them. They’re enablers. It doesn’t remove their responsibility to govern while they’re in the majority in Congress, no matter how much they want to say up-is-down and blame the Democrats.
Infants aren’t political ideologues who refuse to recognize reality. People are taught that stuff.
The destruction of public schools is feeding the “fear The Other” memes. For long term health of our system of government, we’ve got to push back on the voucherization, the demonization of teachers and professors, the mania for charter schools, the destruction of affirmative action and diversity programs for university admissions, the charging of out-of-state tuition rates for non-favored in-state people, (as previously outlined by Martin) the preference of university slots for foreigners and the rich who can pay full-freight and get preferential treatment over normal in-state people, the hollowing-out of the public education system over the mania to cut taxes, the resegregation of schools via housing and school funding (via property tax) policies, etc., etc. All of these things are Balkanizing the body politic and setting the stage for even more divisiveness in the future.
The GOP minions are being disingenuous in the extreme by saying the Democrats have to compromise when they know and have shown that the reverse never applies to them. It’s all talking points with them. They aren’t interested in compromise – they are interested in getting their way. As with unruly children, the way to fix the behavior is to not reward it.
We have to fight them every day, on every issue. We have to make them own it.
Once they demonstrate that they have finally rejected Boehner’s formulation of “compromise”, then we can start talking again…
My too long $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
She says to the guy who had nine chickens slaughtered by a weasel. :-( Interesting thing I learned- they kill chickens by decapitation and then drink the blood. They don’t actually eat any of the bird. But yeah, they do leave one hell of a mess behind.
bemused
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It could take awhile for Trumpbots to actually start getting the idea they’ve been scammed again, they are deeply entrenched in their alternate reality. Here’s what one of them said this week on one of the local blogs: “Trump did say hands off Social Security. I’m almost eligible and hopefully he just meant for current recipients.” (So if that guy has kids and grandkids, too bad for them?) “I’d be willing to absorb things like means testing and adjustments on ages in order to stabilize the program.” He’s not sure Trump is going to do that though.
Scream. I almost feel sorry for the poor sap buying into all the lies about Social Security and he’s willing to accept crumbs while the billionaires have been lobbying for years to raise SS age (to 70 now) and cut benefits tied to more tax cuts for them and GOP eager to do it.
You’d think they’d start getting suspicious with all the wall street bankers on Trump team and being picked for agency heads but that would be giving them too much credit, not when they can’t see outside of their delusional world of fake facts.
Chris
@Another Scott:
I don’t believe the “small minority” thing anymore.
WereBear
@Another Scott: I agree.
And it’s not even unexpected; technological change drives social change and we’ve had the pedal smashed to the floor the past several decades. The unadaptable and highly comfortable among us stand in our way and yell “Stop!” even though they cannot derail it.
They simply get to take our their fear and frustrations on those who embrace it.
Poopyman
I’m in a job that has me interacting a lot with several branches of the military. These are good kids (at 62, this is how they all look to me), and I like them a lot.
But the folks I deal with are mostly non-comms, even the ones with graying hair. Flag-level officers are a different type, and they need to be to have reached that rank. I don’t find them especially likeable. Or even trustworthy, for that matter.
Point is, there’s regular military and there’s flag officers. These are not just some veterans going into the Cabinet, these are guys that have worked the military politics to get to where they are. They’re no different from the other CEOs that Twittler is picking.
WereBear
@OzarkHillbilly: I know their behavior in chicken houses. Though, being weasels, they are simply acting on instinct, unlike people who are supposed to know better.
Aleta
@OzarkHillbilly: You mean the weasel known as a skunk-bear who can kill caribou and moose but often prefers to eat dead flesh?
Kay
The selling of Ivanka as the younger, hipper Trump brand is just gross. We have women who are elected officials who are informed about these issues and worked hard to get the positions they have. What did this person do to merit this coverage of her every move on “policy”?
It’s so clearly bullshit. They send her out to soften Trump’s most radical positions and to distract from the far Right Cabinet he’s appointing. She said she met with Gore and then Trump chose an anti-environmental EPA. Yesterday she said she planned to focus on “pay equity” the same day Trump appointed a sexist, religious fundamentalist to Labor.
I am so, so sick of being sold. I get that the Trump’s are widely admired in some circles for self-promotion, but are we really going to be subjected to Ivanka’s press releases every day for 4 years?
D58826
a few bits and pieces.
Which if she hasn’t noticed he is doing that also.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/309602-aide-generals-a-refreshing-departure-for-cabinet-picks
Wolf Blitzer is reporting that Ivanka might take on the role of first lady. Well at least she doesn’t have nekked photos all over the internet.
well to all of the WWC – nop good deed goes unpuniushed
7 million of that 16 million comes from the tax payer incentive.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/carrier-jobs-automation/
but e-mails –
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-businesses-campaign-fec_us_584a32f6e4b04c8e2baf31e6
On the other hand some good news – one of the good guys turns 100 today – Kirk Douglas. Among other things he enlisted in the Navy and served on a sub chaser in the Pacific in WWII.
Chip Daniels
AND it needs to be pointed out constantly-
Liberal ideas are widely popular.
Social Security, Medicare, minimum wage, reproductive rights, wealth equality, health care access…These are popular ideas, things that a lot of people take for granted.
Dave
@Poopyman: Hell I’m 36 and younger soldiers have been looking like babies to me for the last five years. That’s all Afghanistan was to me dead kids. Ours theirs didn’t really make a difference just dead dumbass kids that should be alive.
Right about flag officers they are as a whole very political; and many succumb to the yes man bubble the good ones are at least aware of the bubble and try to mitigate it the bad ones never question it; its a challenge for anyone with power. I never trusted or liked Petreaus when he was the golden boy. That said with the exception of Flynn the Generals are probably the least objectionable picks I’ve seen and any firewall that can mitigate the coming disasters is worthwhile. And that’s a terrible thing.
bemused
@germy:
Every time I see her, which I try to avoid as much as possible, I wonder why she doesn’t do something about her hair already. It’s like straw and a lousy cut. She’s wealthy and can afford to get it back into condition. Minor and catty, I know.
cmorenc
@Another Scott:
The classic example of the purportedly “moderate” Republican enabler of the crazies is Sen Susan Collins of Maine. She talks the talks of moderate sensibility but then walks the walk of voting with the hard-right. And the media lets her get away with it by consistently referring to her as “moderate GOP Senator Susan Collins”.
RareSanity
My opinion for some time has been that if Democrats would just be more confident in their messaging, and not be afraid of hurting the feelings of The Masters of the Universe or Ma and Pa Kettle, not only would they win more elections, they would be more widely respected.
I can’t remember who said it to me in college (probably a football coach, sounds kinda like coach-speak), but it stuck…”You can’t win people over by being lukewarm, you need to be either hot or cold.”
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
To be fair, most people don’t have the time or inclination to understand the nuance in reporting and commentary on unemployment statistics. U3 and U6 and 51% black youth unemployment and 36% youth unemployment and underemployed and discouraged workers and all the rest runs together after a while, often by design. “I (retired person who watches Fox News in North Brownbackistan) heard on the news that the ‘real’ unemployment rate is something 47% – much higher than that bogus 4.6% number. It wasn’t that high in the past…!” People nominally on our side, *cough* Bernie *cough*, making the same points that are sound-bite-ized by Fox News and the like, doesn’t help.
In a time of “fake news” and a continuously running puke funnel of disinformation from the Teabaggers, maybe talking about specific numbers is something that has to be de-emphasized for a while. Maybe we have to hammer on likability and fairness and “common sense” for a few cycles. “I don’t like Donnie – he is so mean.” “I don’t think it’s fair that I’ve paid into Medicare for 30 years but all I’ll get is a coupon when I need health care in the future.”
Stuff like that.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
If Trump’s daughter ran a chain of Payless shoe stores in Arkansas would her every word on her policy preferences be announced daily?
Speaking of “identity politics”, that’s what this is. “Manhattan moderate” is code for “someone we might know and like”
She can’t be like her dad! She knows the phrase “pay equity” and she just claps along when her Dad insults whole groups of millions of people! She would never say that stuff!
Dave
@RareSanity: Agreed and there has been some of this but democrats don’t sustain it. Every time there is a lost election or even a less than dominant win they tend to go into defensive mode. Now media plays a role in this but the party and liberals as an entity need to be more forceful in presenting our ideas.
schrodinger's cat
@bemused: Its like a broom and a Swedish person had a baby.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Her stuff is mid range at best, its hardly Hermes or Chanel.
schrodinger's cat
@RareSanity: Yes, they come across as wishy washy and goody goody.
bemused
@schrodinger’s cat:
Oh god that’s hilarious!
schrodinger's cat
@cmorenc: There are no moderate Republicans in office, that’s an oxymoron.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Hey did you know that a new poll shows that 67% of Trump voters believe unemployment went up under Obama?
RareSanity
@Dave:
That is the truth…there are too many people in the party that are more easily startled than a deer that hears the faintest sound.
I don’t have a problem with Dems that I may disagree with, it’s the pearl clutchers and wafflers that I can’t stand. If you (general you, not you specifically) change your position on something because of evidence or cogent arguments, then we can work together. If you change your position simply because of the prevailing winds, you’re really not much use to anyone.
Kay
I have had my differences with Mr. Armando but this is true. They don’t need to change or persuade the national Democratic Party to win a governor’s race in Wisconsin. There are only 6 million people in Wisconsin so 3 million voters, give or take. It’s an ideal test case. There are other governor’s races in OH and MI so they could even focus on WI and then compare/contrast. They could even run Feingold! :)
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: one of the things that’s bothering me the most about this all is, it’s not even a particularly good con and the media is falling for it so fucking easily. Trump didn’t have to con anybody to win the white power majority in the upper Midwest–that part of his support I can at least understand. But everybody else falling for this shtick?
JMG
@Another Scott: Most Americans, even the ones on our side, are innumerate. All of us are math deficient to some extent. I agree with you.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
It isn’t that the shoes are expensive. It’s that they can’t accept that Trump came out of NYC. They’re yearning for a Bloomberg and they’re getting the Trumps.
Elizabelle
@D58826:
Happy Birtthday, Kirk Douglas. Celebrating in your honor w some lemon ricotta pancakes.
Good morning, all. Godspeed, good man John Glenn.
Have seen a lot of promos for Hidden Figures, film out next month about NASA’s human computer rocket girls. Plotting the trajectory for Astronaut Glenn’s flight. While black and female (some of them). Wishing John Glenn had lived to see the film’s release.
schrodinger's cat
@JMG:
.
That’s a broad brush your painting with. Speak for yourself. Not math deficient is I or many on Balloon Juice. We can has graduate degrees in math heavy disciplines. Thank you very much.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Its not about the expense, they are tacky not tasteful. There is tasteful at every price point.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Scott: @JMG: @schrodinger’s cat: our side, not our site.
Speaking as a math partisan I’m fine throwing math under the bus if it helps our messaging. Obama and Big Dawg used lots of numbers though and it worked for them.
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
It bothers me on process and transparency grounds. She has the same rights as anyone else to express her political opinions but it shouldn’t be taken seriously as some kind of hint that Trump isn’t REALLY a lunatic, because look at that nice Ivanka! It’s substantively bullshit and he’s using it to his advantage. Trump is far Right. He’s already to the Right of Bush. Glossing that over with Ivanka’s lunches with famous people is playing right into their hands and it’s just WRONG. She hasn’t done anything to earn this and there are female lawmakers who HAVE earned it.
schrodinger's cat
@bemused: Thank you, thank you! I will be here all day.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: What else do you expect from the Vichy Press? They exist to give the regime a cover.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: Isn’t our site on our side. Math forever, don’t be throwing math under the bus.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
There is ZERO evidence that Ivanka has ANY influence over her father if I take Ivanka at her word on pay equity, child care and climate change. He has appointed not ONE person who shows that he’s influenced by her at all.
I know the Trump’s say he’s influenced by her but the self-interest in claiming that is obvious. So far it’s utter nonsense as shown by the people he hires.
hovercraft
@Another Scott:
This.
The problem is that the media has succumbed to the bs idea that it’s both sides who are doing this, and that since democrats represent coastal elites and certain groups of people, what the GOP says the “American people” want is representative of the “true” will of the people is. Evidence in the form of polling or as most recently evidenced by actual votes to the contrary. Vague pronouncements like cutting waste, fraud and abuse, and cutting taxes are popular, but name me one actual policy prescription if you can find one that is actually popular, there are none. Even the central focus of their campaigning for the last six years, repealing Obamacare is not popular. I can name a dozen democratic actual proposals that are popular, but since they don’t involve things that the media has decided are necessary, (cutting entitlements, vouchers), they are presented to the public as not serious policy prescriptions, while Ryan’s fantasy budgets are described as the work of a policy wonk who is a very serious person, never mind that they only way they add up is with fantasy “dynamic scoring”.
Until the media starts actually having reporters who are interested and knowledgeable about actual policy, the voters will remain ignorant, and they will make their decisions based on stupid things like the ability to drive a message, even when that message is all smoke and mirrors. The Chuck Toads of the world don’t ask follow up questions because they don’t know what the hell the politicians are talking about, so in most cases gishgallop will prompt them to move on to the next topic, the one they deem the most important one, the narrative. They then turn around and lament the fact that policies and have not been central to the discussion, criticizing the democrats for not getting their message out, after spending four and a half minutes of a five minute interview asking questions about specious GOP bullshit. This is the nut we have to crack, these GOP congresscritters can be ignorant morons and talk nonsense because they are allowed to by the media, and the ones who know better are allowed to refuse to discuss things that relate to public policy but make them uncomfortable, because the media understands that if they address them they will anger their base. The GOP are allowed to cower from their base, while the media demand at every turn that the democrats piss on theirs to prove their seriousness.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Agreed completely. In my opinion you should run the DNC, your ideas make a lot of sense.
Chris
@Kay:
It also confirms, as if there was any doubt, that the media will cling to anything no matter how slim to confirm that Trump is really a normal politician, just colorful and misunderstood. (A benefit of the doubt they didn’t extent to, say, Clinton, and frequently not to Obama).
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: My point was a bit different, there is nothing wonderful about IT’s fashion house, judged only on the basis of fashion. I doubt that she even designs any of the stuff herself.
schrodinger's cat
@Chris: Vichy Press is an arm of the Republican party, they have bought and paid for. To expect fairness from them is futile.
Matt McIrvin
@Hellbastard: The problem is they keep pushing the envelope. These days, “giving up on gun control” means supporting Stand Your Ground laws, which are basically licenses to kill black people in the street. Nobody can vote if they’re dead.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: well that all bothers me too, of course. I’m for whatever reason more bothered by how obvious it is and how the self styled gatekeepers of wisdom don’t seem to notice they’re being played.
I do think it’s funny that we’ve (as a country) given giant international corporations the moral right to tell us what’s true.
@schrodinger’s cat:
Maybe the front-pagers.
I’m fine downplaying our pro-math agenda as long as we don’t compromise on governing in a pro-math manner.
Aleta
@Kay: Working wives of Democratic presidents, committed to social change, might talk policy with their husbands: Threat to the country, they weren’t elected!
Laura Bush, suspected liberal views on women’s rights: Keep her quiet and tranquilized. Ivanka: WaPo prints her press office release. She’s mulling over ‘what influence she may have’ on the issues she’s picked out. Deciding how to balance her alleged business success with her new political opportunities.
hovercraft
@bemused:
I’m with you sister, between that straw on her head, (step away from the bleach, it’s not your friend), and the bags under her eyes, she needs to do something, she always looks like shit. I’m the same age as her, and she looks at least 15 years older than me, even if I do say so myself.
schrodinger's cat
@hovercraft: She is the reverse Dorian Gray.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: oh man, Wilde or one of the other legendary wits would be most welcome right about now. Who do we even have any more?
rikyrah
@Kay:
Keep on bringing it Kay.
Keep on telling it.
geg6
@MomSense:
Completely with you on this. She’s on double secret probation with me because of it. She keeps it up and she lands on the same shit list I have Bernie on. The one with the names of politicians who are massive fakes and who should be avoided at all costs.
SenyorDave
I’m with you sister, between that straw on her head, (step away from the bleach, it’s not your friend), and the bags under her eyes, she needs to do something, she always looks like shit. I’m the same age as her, and she looks at least 15 years older than me, even if I do say so myself.
I didn’t realize that she’s only 49, I seriously assumed she was about 60. My wife is turning 64 this month and Conway looks older than she does. Finding out that she’s only 49 makes me wonder if she had some serious substance abuse problems. It would be irresponsible of me not to speculate.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: We are the ones we have been waiting for. Seriously though, we have Colbert who seems a bit defanged at the CBS and there is Sam Bee.
hovercraft
Rachel Maddow dissected a PPP poll exclusively pre-released to MSNBC showing the Trump voter as severely detached from reality.
Rachel started the segment by pointing out that President Obama’s overall approval rating is at 50%. However, while his favorability with Republicans is 9%, it is only 5% of Trump voters.
Rachel then pivoted to issue after issue where a large percentage of Trump voters were severely misinformed. They live in a virtually fact-free or made-up-fact environment.
The stock market under President Obama soared. The Dow Jones Industrial average went from 7,949.09 to 19,614.91, again, up 11,665.72. In other words, it more than doubled. 39% of Trump voters think the stock market went down under Obama.
Unemployment dropped from 7.8% to 4.6% during the Obama administration. Clinton, Johnson, Stein and other voters are well aware of that fact.
But not Donald Trump voters; 67% of them believe unemployment rose under President Obama.
Rachel continued.
•40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
•60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
•73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
•29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.
“I think it shows that even after the election, what Trump voters believe about the world is distinctively different from what the rest of the country believe,” Rachel said. “And from what is true. And this is an alternate reality that they are in, — it is weird enough and specific enough that you can’t say it just springs from broader a misunderstandings or from a broader ignorance on issues that afflicts the country. And this is a specific alternate reality that was created by the Trump movement for a political purpose. And it worked for that political purpose. And now as the Trump administration takes shape, they have to know that they are in power thanks to their voter base that has these false beliefs about the country. False beliefs about the country, false beliefs about the economy, false beliefs about the outgoing president, false beliefs about what California is. In terms of what happens next in our country, it seems important to know this incoming president basically created this fantasy life for his supporters.”
gogol's wife
@SenyorDave:
All these people lead horrible lives. Really, money is the only thing they care about. I’m sorry, that’s not a recipe for happiness.
Unfortunately, they increase the misery for everyone around them too.
bemused
@schrodinger’s cat:
I will definitely be using that.
D58826
democrarcy in trumpland :
http://time.com/4595399/women-march-washington-barred-lincoln-memorial/?xid=tcoshare
and the return of blacklists:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/9/1609062/-Trump-s-transition-team-crafting-a-new-blacklist-for-anyone-who-believes-in-climate-change
StringOnAStick
@Kay: When Bill Clinton became POTUS, I had a radical feminist friend who was totally pissed off that Hillary started working on health care; her opinion was that we didn’t elect Hillary, so why was she acting like we had? In retrospect, it was Hillary’s work on single payer that turned the right wing shit fire hose onto her her from that point on – they knew then that she was a talented politician and had to be “managed”.
First Ladies are one thing and have sometimes had big political roles (Mrs. Roosevelt, for one), but a First Daughter having this much influence and access is totally new territory. She’s the pretty velvet cover on the iron fist and must be resisted.
ETA: the idea that Ivanka is “chatting” about childcare and such is just more patriarchy BS; “chatting” isn’t exactly doing anything other than impressing fellow 1%ers with oh such a nice display of caring for the common (read:icky) people.
geg6
@Chris:
There is no movie star who I disdain more than that crappy actor and poster boy for chickenhawks everywhere, John Wayne. Ugh. Have hated him since I was a child. Clint Eastwood, however, is quickly catching up to him as another shitty actor and coward (spent his full stint in the army during Korea as a fucking lifeguard at Ft. Ord, fer chrissakes) whose shitty output I will never watch.
Another Scott
@schrodinger’s cat: I’ve been waiting for a post on the use of relativistic Green’s functions on non-topological manifolds to model the interaction of induction cooktops with pre-Code movies and dog-cat interpersonal relationships. Looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodinger's cat
@hovercraft: How many liberals and/or Democrats think that the MSM is their friend?
Thinks of PBS, NYT and NPR as venerable institutions dedicated to truth and all that’s good?
Kay
@Aleta:
I’m getting whiplash! Last week they were all connecting with their inner WWC welder- this week we’re back to wealthy people’s ‘”work-life balance”
What happened to our passionate concern for men who wear Carharts who Hillary Clinton cruelly rejected with a wave of her bejeweled hand ? :)
the WWC were a fad, basically. Now it’s back to serious bidness- the wealthy and their struggles to fit in.
hovercraft
@SenyorDave:
Either that, or being a miserable bitch whose purpose in life seems to be to immiserate other people has taken it’s toll on her, even Anne Coulter woman looks better.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: it won’t matter. Trump supporters don’t actually believe things. They change their opinions as soon as Trump does.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Scott: That’s some artisinal word salad.
Hellbastard
@Kay:
I’d just like to know what Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was doing all these years while the state orgs were imploding. We’ve been knocking Reince Prieibus for losing the presidential election but he’s done a masterful job of working behind the scenes to build up the GOP at the state level. We’ve been outplayed on this. 3d chess and all that…
D58826
NBC is reporting that der Fuhrer
but Hillary’s speeches………………………………..
bemused
@SenyorDave:
I first saw her on cspan years ago talking to some college Republican (I assumed) students and she said something about not wanting everybody to vote and then said something else kind of quickly. I think she slipped and didn’t mean to say that out loud on cspan. This was when the rightwing was still pretending they didn’t think that, not on tv or in public anyway. She looked pretty much the same then, hair, hairstyle and all.
Poopyman
@schrodinger’s cat: Someone on my FB page forwarded a (fake?) GoFundMe to pay for KellyeAnne’s exorcism.
Catty, ya think?
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
I’m reading the book now.
Cannot wait for the movie :)
Waldo
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
If every last Trump voter gets laid off in the next four years, polls will show an equal percentage of them think unemployment went down on his watch. The post-truth era cuts both ways.
Another Scott
@D58826: Don’t go overboard on the Womens March permit stuff. Patch:
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
hovercraft
@D58826:
She gave speeches to them, the shitgibbon is giving our economy to them.
Kay
@Hellbastard:
There is something behind it. A desire to keep power or campaign funds or consulting contracts in DC. Because it doesn’t make sense otherwise. These people are pros. We don’t have to tell them that the vast majority of issues Democrats care about are state law. 90% of them are lawyers :)
They know this yet they do nothing. There’s something we don’t know that explains this. Take your pick of a Democratic issue- voting, criminal justice, consumer regs, health care, education- ALL of those have huge state law intersect. Yet Democrats have no national plan to recover governors seats or statehouses even when they’re out of power at the federal level.
They could “win back” the Great Lakes states without winning a single federal race. They could win governor’s races in OH, WI, MI and IL. They could be working on that now. Instead they’re moaning about how bad the 2018 Senate map looks.
Major Major Major Major
@Poopyman: sounds legit to me.
Kay
@Hellbastard:
Democrats claim to care about public education. The way to influence and support public education is to get elected at the state level. 90% of it is state law. It’s a good issue for them! They won PA, LA and NC partly on public education.
satby
@Another Scott: Not too long, just right. And true.
Kay
@Hellbastard:
Take whoever managed or helped win the NC governor’s race and make that person the chair of the national Party.
They have to pull away from DC.
D58826
@Another Scott: thanks for update. More news than can keep track of sometimes.
D58826
@hovercraft:
No he is just returning it to the rightful owners after that Marxist/Nazi/Kenyan tried to give it to all of those undeserving entities called citizens.
J R in WV
@OzarkHillbilly:
Hey, Hillbilly!
Good morning!!
I sleep late now that I’m retired. Then, sometimes, I take a nap. But I do stay up late to read… mostly this blog and the comments, many of which I agree with or otherwise find interesting.
Even yours!
Good morning, sweetpea, from the other hillbilly on here. (Yes, I know there are several others including our host. But still…)
gvg
WaPo has a story up that McCain and Lindsey Graham are going to investigate Russia for trying to influence our elections, even though Trump doesn’t like it. Not my favorite people, but I am relieved. I had expected/hoped for more inter party disputes between Trump and long time GOP politicians before this. I can’t believe the Russian connections didn’t explode before the election. when I was growing up, both Trump and Bernie would have been driven out of the race pretty instantly for those kinds of connections. I never expected these issues to get treated as unimportant. Of course when I was growing up, Trumps affairs would have also finished him quick, especially with the self described religious. I really don’t understand them anymore.
Larkspur
@SenyorDave: I can’t stand Conway, but… Her job, as it is perceived by herself, the media, and her boss, is to be thin, tan, and feminine-like. That’s gonna take a toll on anyone. As for her hair, which is awful, I’m certain there’s an agreement among the whole team: Trump must always have the very bestest hairdo, so there she is, day after day, with that desiccated over bleached ‘do that makes my own limp, thin (but not mistreated) hair cry out in sympathetic pain. But really, it’s only when she opens her mouth and words come out that she truly bugs me.
MomSense
@geg6:
I think you and I have a lot in common. John Wayne has always been on my shit list. Cannot stand him. Eastwood is on the same list.
BTW I’ve been playing Bowie on a loop lately. I’m Afraid of Americans is my new anthem.
geg6
@schrodinger’s cat:
The stuff I’ve seen with her label (on the racks at Marshall’s) is pretty ugly, with cheap polyester and hideous prints. I spent some time earlier this month at the local Marshall’s dropping them off the racks onto the floor. I might have stepped on a few, too. Sorry to the staff at Marshall’s but I couldn’t help myself.
Major Major Major Major
@gvg: nice of them to finally get around to it.
Larkspur
@gvg: I know. When I was nearly growed up, I never imagined that a war veteran like Al Gore would be castigated over his service. I’d have bet that a Vietnam veteran would be impossible to beat. When I was really young, one of the favorite idiotic taunts was “I don’t wanna rush ya, but why don’t you go back to Russia?”. (The war, it was cold.) And politicians had affairs all the damn time, but there was no 24 hour cable news cycle, or internet, plus reporters deferred to the man in the office and refrained from tainting the discourse with reportage on “personal foibles”. But I also remember that I am a bit history-deficient, and that in the 19th century, there was some truly spectacular mud-slinging and attack journalism and public nastiness. Back to the library!
J R in WV
@Kay:
The main purpose of fundamental patriarchal religions is to insure the rights of male heads of families (and religions) over their women and children.
All else is the BullShit purported to support Gawd’s foundation of the religion and the rules intended to keep women down on their knees, so as to be able to fellate their male lord and master.
Larkspur
@MomSense: It’s weird, the extent to which the public personas of some actors or artists affect our ability to appreciate their work. I’m one of those people who can’t stand Woody Allen or Roman Polanski, even though Annie Hall and Rosemary’s Baby were terrific. But I don’t even feel like checking out anything by Woody Allen any more, nor could I ever again listen to the Bill Cosby comedy albums my father loved so much.
But I can still happily watch Adam Baldwin on my Firefly DVDs even though he’s a flaming asshole in real life. (Maybe because his character Jayne is kind of a flaming, but funny, asshole himself.)
I’d never watch Steven Seagal because I don’t like the kinds of movies he’s in, but his real-life attributes would make me puke anyway.
I have a good friend who is staunchly Republican (we don’t talk politics cause we know better), and we were talking about TV and how they just got Netflix. I told her I thought she’d love Grace and Frankie, and I listed the stars: Lily Tomlin, Sam Waterston, Martin Sheen…and then I said Jane Fonda, and my friend’s face just froze over. I said, um, no Jane Fonda, even after all this time? “I can’t stand her; I’ll never watch her on anything”.
Miss Bianca
What’s on the agenda is reading and writing. In the reactivity of despair, I decided I needed The Audacity of Hope, “read by the author”. I guess I needed a shot of PBO’s voice in my ear as we head into the winter of discontent and discord. What I am realizing is that, while of course I’m not going to agree with everything he says, I am certainly going to pay a lot more attention to stuff I don’t want to hear coming from *this* author than from almost any other human on the damn planet, right now. And he makes a way better case for Bill Clinton-style “Third Wayism” than I ever could. ; )
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: Wasn’t there some talk on this yere blog about getting together and working for that? I live in a no-ID, mail-in ballot state, so my efforts would have to be directed out-of-state, either money or some sort of volunteerism. I like Kay’s idea of getting the Democrats to organize – and actually paying organizers to do it.
bmaccnm
@cmorenc: I think the same about Trump and his shirts, He’s a fuckin billyonare. He can buy a shirt that fits.
StringOnAStick
I’m going to a local democratic party event tonight, and a state house district one next Tuesday. Everything Kay has been writing here are issues I am going to bring up. Thanks Kay!
Mayken
@satby: Thanks for this! Put in a small order. I love homemade soap and do NOT have the patience to do it myself. Hopefully get them in time for Christmas but I understand if not!
Miss Bianca
@hovercraft:
BOTH SIDES DO IT!!
dww44
@Larkspur: I so loved your remark. Snarky, but not cruel!
Miss Bianca
@StringOnAStick: hey, me too – next week! i’ll bring some of this stuff up, too!
Matt
@Applejinx: Yeah, we need to heeeeeaallll them with lovvvvveee and understaaaaaanding!
geg6
@MomSense:
We must be sisters from another mother!
schrodinger's cat
@bmaccnm: Some people think if they wear outfits that are too large for them we won’t notice the weight they are carrying. It never works.
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: Never was an Eastwood fan, that was long before he spoke to the chair at RNC. He was not bad to look at when he was young, although he looked a bit mean with that squinty eyed stare. I could never for the life of me understood what he said onscreen, too much mumbling.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: No Guardian is for purity ponies. BBC, is not bad. Though their US operation borders on being Villager Lite.
Larkspur
@dww44: Thank you! I needed that, and very much appreciate it.
jurassicpork
Mrs. JP and I are really in a terrible way this Xmas season. If it’s possible, please consider making a donation to Welcome Back to Pottersville. Details are here.
Brachiator
Sean Penn, Jane Fonda, Clint Eastwood, and John Wayne have all turned in great acting performances. People who don’t like them because of their politics are dopes. Also, Sean Penn in Eastwood directed “Mystic River” was magnificent. Double ideology dope conundrum.
schrodinger's cat
@Brachiator: I like Penn, have never watched any Jane Fonda or John Wayne movies so I cannot comment. As for Eastwood, he is a better director than an actor. Squint Eastwood is pretty one note as an actor.