"On Obama’s watch, the economy generated 8.6 million net new jobs — or about three Carrier deals every day" https://t.co/fbducrH83S
— MarketWatch (@MarketWatch) December 3, 2016
…[W]hat’s the best-performing stock in the Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, +0.18% since the election?
Goldman Sachs. GS, -0.12%
Yes, really. Shares are up 24%, to $225 from $182 when the market closed on November 8. The next biggest gainer: Wall Street powerhouse JP Morgan Chase JPM, +0.52%
Half of the Dow’s gain since the election, in fact, is due to just those two Wall Street stocks. By contrast, shares of “Main Street” companies Johnson & Johnson JNJ, +0.11% Procter & Gamble PG, -0.10% and Coca-Cola KO, -0.12% are down.
According to company documents, the partners at Goldman own 30.65 million shares. Which means that the partners at Goldman Sachs, in total, are $1.3 billion richer than they were on November 8, thanks to Trump’s election…
Trumpkins are learning the hard way what happens when you buy an investment scheme from a con-artist. I’ve been writing about scam artists for more than 20 years. They always promise you the moon — that is, until your check clears.
When will these voters get it? Maybe never. Author Maria Konnivoka notes in her book The Confidence Game that many victims refuse to admit they’ve been scammed — no matter what the evidence. Indeed, she says, many just keep coming back for more…
***********
Apart from checking out Wall Street history during the Calvin Coolidge era, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
Major Major Major Major
Ahh, I figured most of the dow gains were a few stocks or specific industries. Good to know.
Kryptik
Don’t you just feel the victory of the working class?
Sadly, all this will go down the memory hole as the media continues to slaver praises and anthems to Trump’s golden divinity, as he delivers the One Single Truth to them from his tower on high, for them to repeat faithfully as his Gilded Gospel.
Damien
I know part of being a Democrat is wanting to help everyone, no matter who they are, but…..fuck every single Trump voter. Fuck them all. I don’t care if they get scammed, as long as they aren’t dragging the rest of the country with them. I don’t care if they want to die of easily preventable diseases as long as they don’t kill those striving to feel better.
Fuck them.
Pogonip
@Damien: Yes, but what do you really think?
RoonieRoo
I’ve officially moved into the “burn it all down” camp. I really have.
Pogonip
Re the what are you going to do this p.m. question–not a darn thing, thank you very much.
The Moar You Know
Gosh, you can just feel that economic anxiety recede, can’t you?
Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan clean up, while companies that actually make shit instead of stealing money are headed down the tubes. Good going, America.
@RoonieRoo: I love and cherish a functional and stable society – I really do – but if the result is that everything gets burned down anyway, then by God I at least want to light a match or two.
Mary G
@Major Major Major Major: Ya, I bought two healthcare mutual funds after I sold my house and they have made the best gains of anything I picked, but now they’re dropping. Oh well.
hovercraft
Here is the video of the speech Obama just gave down in Florida, fast forward to 22:12
I haven’t watched yet, but I here it was a good one.
Corner Stone
I plan to use the word wonk a lot more often.
Bobby D
No to distract from the Goldman grift…but the stock price argument is a little thin. Yes, GS and JPM have led the Dow (only 30 stocks in the DJIA, and both those are financials). Healthcare stocks in general have taken a hit (JNJ is the singles biggest component of the giant healthcare ETF “XLV”), including of course JNJ, PFE, MRK. Obvious reaction to Obamacare repeal threats.
But this “evidence” is pretty transparent cherry picking, IMO, made either from a stance of equity market trading ignorance, or purposely misleading. The small caps are absolutely raging in this advance too, and those are a whole hell of a lot closer to being “main street” than mega-cap Fortune 500 corps like JNJ. One of my best performers since the election has been a small-cap focused fund that mirrors the Dow Total Completion Index.
Mike R
My vote is over half his voters will never learn.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@Damien: Seconded. I’m even to a point where I think splitting the country into (as the map has it) the United States of America and Dumbfuckistan has merit.
charluckles
I’ve been fuming about this all day. Why is the story that out of touch big city liberals don’t understand real America and that’s why Clinton lost? Why isn’t the story that real America can’t spot a big city con man and that’s why Trump won? At this point I wonder if Clinton would have been well served by flying real Americans to an elitist big city for a cultural tour of how high rolling scam artists work.
Hungry Joe
Most of them STILL haven’t figured out that Reagan and his henchman cut the legs out from under our society. And it’s taken (most of) my fellow Californians decades to realize that Proposition 13, which rolled back/froze property taxes, eviscerated the state. Besides, Trump’s wet-dream military buildup would be a stimulus of sorts, if a short-term and wasteful one. (I’d like at least one “I see what you did there” comment re “wet dream/short-term and wasteful.”) And privatizing Social Security would cause stocks to skyrocket: hundreds of billions would pour into the market and fat cats would grow fatter still on the financial fees attendant to all the new investing. Aprez Don, le shitstorm.
Bobby D
@Corner Stone: What’s that sound when you slap Paul “Lyin” Ryan upside his IGMFY little head? Why, it’s the sound of a hollow log, “WONK!”.
Hit him again! “WONK!”.
And one more time, smack the Janesville Jagoff upside his head and, “WONK”.
Maybe we could store grain up there, seems to be plenty of space in that malodorous melon the Zombie Eyed Granny Starver calls a head.
Hal
I saw a friend of a friend post today on Facebook criticizing Elizabeth Warren for doing nothing about dapl and then swooping in, according to the post, after the victory over the pipeline “to take credit”.
Green party page with lots of comments about how terrible Warren is and how she betrayed Sanders. All of which I mention just to say Donald Trump and team are still only the second most annoying people on the Internet.
So I guess we can look forward to another Jill Stein run in 2020 no matter how terrible Trump is?
gene108
@Hungry Joe:
Sure equities would go up, but what happens to Treasury Bonds?
SSA is sitting on trillions of t-bonds and buys billions more every year.
Pushing SS money into stocks will cause a serious disruption in how we fund our government.
Roger Moore
@Mike R:
About 59% of his 46% of the electorate will never learn.
Corner Stone
Watching Johnny Dangerously en espanol is, I think, even more hilarious than the first 27 times I have watched it in English. Or whatever language it is that fargin’ guy speaks.
Pogonip
@Roger Moore: 78% of all statistics are made up.
Mary G
Rolling Stone: Van Jones: Only a ‘Love Army’ Will Conquer Trump
I know people are still shocked and angry, but screaming racist just didn’t work in the election. Talking about issues is how they got rid of Silvio B. in Italy, and I hope we can do that same thing.
hovercraft
@The Moar You Know:
Gosh, you can just feel that economic anxiety recede, can’t you?
With the republicans stripping out requirements to use American steel for federally funded projects, aren’t they getting what they asked for? Isn’t that the epitome of America First. O shit they meant the mega rich first, oh well better luck next time. If it wasn’t for the fact that we are all fucked, I would be totally with @RoonieRoo: , I’m with you most of the time, but then I remember my kids, and I come back from the dark side.
Mary G
@Mary G: Oops. Forgot my link for the RS Van Jones story in #22.
trollhattan
@Pogonip:
27% of people agree with you.
Roger Moore
@charluckles:
As far as I can tell, there are two secrets to a good con: make a promise the mark desperately wants to believe, and make him complicit in scamming somebody else so he’ll be too embarrassed to admit anything went wrong. In most of the classic cons, the con man acts as the sucker the mark is supposed to be ripping off, but the Republicans seem to have come up with a variant where Those People are supposed to be the real victims. As long as Those People are hurt badly enough, the Republican marks are perfectly willing to keep getting conned.
hovercraft
@hovercraft:
hear not here :-(
Corner Stone
@Bobby D: When someone loses the final round on a 70’s gameshow:
Wonk!Wonk!Wooooonnnkkk!!”
Hungry Joe
@gene108: Not a problem. Trump has hinted that he could make a great deal on t-bonds: He won’t pay! He’ll offer 70 cents on the dollar! Take it or leave it!
Of course, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed …
Roger Moore
@Pogonip:
Take a look at what you get when you multiply 59% and 46%.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Mike R:
The question is how much over half. I’d say 90% of his voters will never learn.
jeffreyw
booger
Corner Stone
@jeffreyw: Don’t mind if I do!
jeffreyw
Trump’s Carrier deal is wildly popular. Even 32% of Clinton voters see him more favorably now. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/carrier-deal-voter-poll-232224 …
D58826
Here we go again.
Congress has to pass a continuing resolution by Friday to keep the government open.
Congress has to pass a waiver, and the D’s are opposed, for Mattis to become SEC of DEF.
Relation – GOP is planning on attaching the waiver to the continuing resolution. Just what we need a government shutdown over Christmas.
Davebo
@Bobby D:
It’s true that the Russell 2000 index is up over 13% in the past month. The question becomes, since all of this is based on speculation, which investor type is likely to be right in the quarters to come.
Drump is still PEOTUS.
FlipYrWhig
@charluckles:
While I don’t fault the Clinton campaign for very much of what they did, I still wish they had thrown a few punches at Trump the rip-off artist who spotted America as his next mark.
debbie
I laughed out loud at work when I heard Trump complaining that Boeing was making too much money off their Air Force deal. No one knows more than Trump about overcharging.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: I saw here that it’s not “passing a waiver”, it’s “rewriting the law”. I think we should phrase it that way, if that’s true.
ETA: “President-elect Trump wants us to rewrite the law so he can put the military in charge of what’s supposed to be a civilian position. He wants the generals running the country. It’s a bad idea that sends a terrible message to the rest of the world. It’s what you see in tin-pot dictatorships and banana republics. It’s what you’d see in Russia.”
SatanicPanic
@jeffreyw: That’s fine. He can’t keep this up for four years- that particular deal was probably already in the works and he just lucked into it. Beating him is going to take focusing on things he’s actually doing, not worrying about his dumb gimmicks.
trollhattan
@jeffreyw:
The workers’ union president is unenthused.
Nobody will bother to interview the actual workers, naturally.
D58826
@D58826: the link – http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/6/1608000/-Republicans-threatening-to-shut-down-government-to-ram-through-Trump-s-defense-secretary-nomination
gene108
@Mary G:
He hasn’t proposed any concrete policies yet. There’s no way to focus all the pent up liberal rage over his winning the EC. So right now it sort of dissipates on different wavelengths.
When right-wingers were freaking out about Obama, in 2008, they focused their energies in buying guns and ammo.
I’m not sure, what liberals can do to cope with their anxiety.
liberal
@Damien: don’t know if he’s a Trump voter, but was walking the dog an hour ago in my cold Boston suburb, and some old white guy was doing carpentry outside. Listening to Howie Carr.
Only things I could really hear was something about the a Dems picking Hillary Clinton.
I hope these thugs get exactly what they deserve.
liberal
@gene108: we can, however, do scenario planning: if X happens, we want Dem leaders to do Y, etc.
One thing…if there’s a major terrorist attack on the US, can we insist that the message be Trump failed to protect us, not this “come together” shit we had after 9-11?
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Actually its either/or, both, kind of funky. They can either pass a law waiving the existing restriction for this nomination, as was done for GEN Marshall. It is true that this would be a new law, but its sole purpose is a one time waiver. Or they could pass a law just reversing the existing law, which would mean there is no actual time restriction on retired general officers/flag officers bing nominated to serve as and serving as the Secretary of Defense. My guess is they’ll just go the pass legislation with a one time waiver, but who knows.
Peale
@gene108: Stock up on Birth Control and get outside and breathe the clean air while there is still clean air to breathe. Put in a low flow toilet and buy some energy efficient light bulbs.
(I’m sure at some point the “things aren’t as good as they used to be” crowd will start complaining about how latex paint and gasoline without lead aren’t as good as the olden days),
gene108
@Hungry Joe:
From a purely academic perspective, I wonder what Wall Street and global finance, in general, will use to replace U.S. Treasury bonds as the risk free rate, when trying to figure out the price of stocks, as the U.S. bonds will no longer be risk free.
Turgidson
@liberal:
No harm in trying, although the media will happily play along when Hair Furor and the GOP yammer endlessly about how liberals want the terrorists to win (with a healthy dose of “this was Obama’s fault” to top off the shit sundae). But they’ll do that no matter what we do, so we might as well try.
SatanicPanic
@gene108: organize! There is a ton to do.
FlipYrWhig
@trollhattan:
“For whatever reason” meaning “because it’s the quintessence of his nature,” presumably.
Homer: Bad bees. Get away from my sugar. Ow. OW. Oh, they’re defending themselves somehow!
tobie
Hair Führer is now boasting that SoftBank agreed to invest $50 billion in the US because he won the election. I won’t link to his twitter feed, but at least the Washington Post has something to say about this:
I have no doubt that Chuck Todd will be breathlessly reporting the yuuge investments Trump has triggered from abroad. Oh, it will be a long 4 years with a serial liar in the White House and a press that does nothing more than transcribe his statements. Exhibit A: the ease with which every major network is now broadcasting the false $4 billion figure for Air Force One.
FlipYrWhig
@liberal:
I guarantee you that, under those circumstances, 99% of elected Democrats would say that we had to come together and support the nation in this troubling time of blah blah blah. And I also guarantee you that, had 9/11 happened under a President Gore, articles of impeachment would have been drawn up within a month and his resignation would have been tendered within a week after that. Because Republicans are disgraceful and Democrats have guilty consciences.
What we, just regular voters, would say… have at it. Rage on. But “our” politicians will be completely paralyzed.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: We should still phrase it like I said. Make everything as difficult as possible for him.
Bobby D
@Corner Stone: Yes! The sad trombone, so appropriate for sadsack Ryan.
“Survey says?!” BZZZZZZAAAAATTTT.Wonk wonk wonk wahhhh. But here’s a nice parting gift, a case of Rice-a-Roni, it’s the San Francisco treat!
@D58826: Bring on the shutdown! I could use a vacation, and they’ve always paid me for the forced time off (except that furlough bullshit a few years ago). Gingrich cut his own throat with those shenanigans, so bring it Paulie ZOGS. I actually don’t want one, because digging out of the backlog that accumulates is not worth the time off.
liberal
@FlipYrWhig: as far as “is” is concerned (as opposed to “ought”), you’re probably right. Which is fucking sad.
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: I agree. And I’ve become frustrated hearing people call our political leaders weak precisely because of this dynamic.
Another Scott
Heh.
If one didn’t know that these business sites embed “real time” quotes in their stories, it would look like the best performing stock lost money. ;-)
There’s something to be said for making stories about changes happening since a period of time actually have fixed end points in the story. People looking at that Marketwatch story 5 years from now are going to be really, really confused…
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@gene108:
They’ll just pretend that the bonds are still risk free and ignore the underlying risks until the meltdown happens. It’s what they did with mortgage-backed securities and they learned jack shit from that, so why would they do anything else?
hovercraft
@jeffreyw:
We don’t have an echo chamber to shout about how most of the story is bullshit, so with the press out there parroting the shitgibbons words, of course it’s popular. As pointed out earlier, Obama’s almost nine million new jobs blows this “deal” away, not that they will ever acknowledge it. Sigh.
Keith P.
@Corner Stone: It’s all about the Whammies.
Baud
@hovercraft: Remember, saving GM was unpopular.
SatanicPanic
@FlipYrWhig: Maybe us accepting this as a foregone conclusion is part of the problem.
chopper
@jeffreyw:
amazing. obama’s auto bailout saves 1.5 million jobs and is wildly unpopular. trump saves 700 jobs and people love him for it.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: First of all who is they? Mortgage backed securities were not risk free, they were AAA rated, not the same thing.
@gene108: Whatever is the euro equivalent of the treasury bill.
Pogonip
@D58826: I thought they had already passed a CR till March?
Baud
@chopper: Polls that include Republicans are meaningless. They know what to support and what to oppose. That’s why consumer outlook immediately became positive after the election. Republican voters were suddenly confident.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: Risk free means you are assured of the return no matter what.Your savings account, is an example.
jeffreyw
@charluckles:
Gasp! You mean we’ve got trouble right here in River City?!?
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: We could use some kittehs, how is our garage kitteh?
hovercraft
@Baud:
Because of the echo chamber, they bleated about corporate welfare, bailout, and the media repeated the charges, endlessly as the worst type of government interference with the free market. This time they are repeating his lies of saving all these jobs, as him caring about saving American jobs and sticking it to Mexico. Suddenly picking winners and losers is a-okay. Funny that.
Mnemosyne
@jeffreyw:
Now I feel like I should re-watch Mamet’s “House of Games.” I didn’t really like it, but at least it had a realistically heartless con man as the lead and not these wimpy “Music Man”-style ones you usually see in Hollywood movies.
hovercraft
@Pogonip:
No the freedom caucus balked, it runs out on Friday.
Baud
@hovercraft: Right. We saw that double standard in spades during the election. I don’t think things improve until we find a way to deal with that.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: apparently they’re not onboard with repeal-and-delay for Obamacare either.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: GOP has co-opted the media, unless we have ways to counter that, the battle is going to be uphill.
jeffreyw
@trollhattan: Those 32% are no info or bad info voters – if they are even voters. Odds are they don’t vote. I’m surprised they found that many who have even heard about it.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: That’s actually sensible from a policy perspective. Anything they do will be awful, but to repeal without having another plan in place is ludicrous (not than anyone besides us cares).
Major Major Major Major
@jeffreyw: margin of error is probably 5%
Pogonip
@D58826: National Law Review says they’ve agreed to pass one through April. So maybe you’ll get some nice spring time off.
If I were the Democrats I’d vote the CR down. Then Nancy P. would go on TV and say something like “My fellow Americans, you have voted for less government, so we voted accordingly to allow you to try it out. Until a budget is passed and the President signs it, there will be no air-traffic control, no meat inspection, and no border patrol. The banks will not be able to open because the Federal Reserve won’t. Social Security will not be able to open its offices or issue payments. Medicare will not be able to process claims. DFAS will not be open to pay our brave defenders of freedom; in fact, the entire Department of Defense will stand down. Emergencies will be handled by whichever service members are willing to risk their lives while not knowing when or if they’ll be paid. Thank you and please call your Senator or Representative to let them know if you are enjoying less government.”
Well, that’s what I’d do.
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
I sent you a second reply to your email with a sneak preview of the super seekrit movie I’m going to cover specifically for Christmas. It might cheer you up a little.
Everyone else has to wait until this weekend to find out!
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes. Agreed. Not sure what to do.
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne: I saw that and couldn’t make head or tail of the convoluted scam.
Botsplainer
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m not “supporting the nation” next time around.
I’ll be saying “I warned you – that fat fuck and his entire corrupt family and set of advisors need to be dragged out of Trump Tower to face a drumhead trial by revolutionary tribunal”.
I suppose I could support handing him to an international body so long as there was no possibility of rescue, and so long as the international body were operating by Chinese penalty principles as relate to corrupt businessmen and politicians…
Pogonip
@hovercraft: I thought that NLR review was from today, sorry.
Kropadope
NYT Editorial : Why Does Donald Trump Lie About Voter Fraud?
If you want to see who feels voiceless, look at the Democrats who keep voting in significant pluralities in House and Presidential elections and still wind up losing. You know what would make me confident in election results? If every eligible voter were actually allowed to vote if they choose.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat:
We could use some kittehs, how is our garage kitteh?
Pogonip
@hovercraft: I just read the new article on govexec.com.
How long has it been since Pres. Carter or Reagan–I forget which–said this annual exercise in fatuity was a national disgrace?
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: First of all Democrats have to realize that the MSM is not their friend and proceed accordingly. I almost yelled at a sweet old lady totebagger yesterday when she started singing peans to NYT and their brave coverage of the T man.
jeffreyw
@Major Major Major Major:
I saw that…
Mnemosyne
@Pogonip:
I think the scam was that he wanted to get into her pants. Everything else was a function of that.
schrodinger's cat
@schrodinger’s cat: *paeans
Pogonip
@Mnemosyne: Now, THAT I understand!
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: Good for you. I’m pessimistic on that front, however.
schrodinger's cat
DJIA tells you nothing, look at the S&P 500 or Russell 3000 and even then what’s good for the equity market (investors) is not necessarily good for everyone else.
hovercraft
@Baud: @schrodinger’s cat:
This is our biggest hurdle,the media, not the gop, we are constantly being asked when we stopped beating our wife, while they are treated like delicate snowflakes who only want what’s best for America, but those mean democrats are always attacking them.
I know I shouldn’t but, we are the unarmed black guy, always causing people to be afraid of us, and kill us, they are the upstanding citizen or cop who just wants to stand their ground or go home to their family. We make them do bad things to us because we don’t do what they tell us to. So it’s always our fault.
Baud
@hovercraft: I agree.
schrodinger's cat
@hovercraft: President Obama was more successful at bypassing the media than HRC. They still gave the craptacular GOP a lot of cover.
SatanicPanic
@hovercraft: I get this and I agree, BUT, Hillary did manage to win in a lot of places. In fact, she won the popular vote. I kind of think the regular media companies just aren’t that powerful anymore. Even if we fixed them, I’m not sure that changes much.
Dadadadadadada
@hedgehog the occasional commenter: Seriously, can we retroactively surrender to the Confederates and send them on their way?
Это курам на смех
@gene108:
For some of us, the answer is buying guns and ammo.
Baud
@SatanicPanic: Agree about Hillary. She fell just short in the EC. But I do think a fair media changes quite a bit. It’s not everything in making the playing field even, but it’s a substantial chunk.
hovercraft
@Baud:
They are not against the repeal part, they are objecting to the plan to repeal it now, but not to have the repeal go into effect for a few years. They want to end Obamacare on January 20 th next year. Ryan and co know this would be a disaster. Though these days who knows, they may be rewarded.
Miss Bianca
@charluckles: I’m thinking it’s about time we did a re-write of “The Music Man” where a suspiciously orange-hued Harold Hill just takes the money and runs, leaving Marion the Librarian and everybody else completely screwed.
@jeffreyw: beat me to it with the “Music Man” reference!
Baud
@hovercraft: Of course. Well, whatever. Their dysfunction is always a good thing.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore:
Would that happen to work out to, oh, about 27%?
ETA: reading further down the thread, I see that it did that very thing…
hovercraft
@Это курам на смех:
Texas Governor: Obama’s Still Comin’ For Your Guns!
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/12/obamas-still-comin-your-guns
President Barack Obama is FURIOUS.
On January 20, he’s going to hand over the reins of our federal government to Donald Trump – a man he clearly despises.
But with nothing left to lose, I’m afraid President Obama is going to spend the final weeks of his administration looking for every opportunity to go around Congress and destroy our Second Amendment freedoms!
As your Governor, I’m committed to doing everything I can to protect our gun rights – both in this upcoming session of the Texas Legislature and by taking every legal action possible to stop Washington, D.C.’s assaults.
cmorenc
@Mike R:
The upside is that it will only take a fraction of them – less than 10% who do learn – to put the dems and progressives back into a solid majority. We don’t have to convince everyone to change their mind – only a surprisingly modest few to win back the presidency, the senate, and perhaps even the gerrymandered house in 2020.
Jeffro
@gene108:
I’m okay with buying more guns and ammo…I plan on doing more concrete, helpful things than that, but given how the “economically anxious” like to threaten the “non morons” in this country, probably best to be prepared.
Chip Daniels
Elsewhere, I’ve madee the comparison between Trump and Hugo Chavez, that they both were skilled at delivering applause lines to their desperate fans, but not much after that.
And eventually, people get tired of the applause lines and want some actual shit done.
Or I should say, the technocratic professional class- the small and medium sized businesspeople, accountants and engineers and managers don’t give a shit about the Mexicans, but they do care a lot about their stocks, their ability to buy parts from China, and they are plugged in an enfranchised enough to be aware of Medicare and Social Security and who is doing what with it.
Its this upper middle class that has the heft and power to swing elections.
I’m betting on 2 years of chaos will work in our favor in 2018.
Patricia Kayden
@Damien: If the damage that Trumpenstein is about to inflict could be limited to only his supporters, that would be ideal. But alas, many working class/poorer Americans who don’t support Trump will be harmed as well. Sigh.
P.S. Hopefully enough of Trump’s supporters will be so damaged by him that they will either sit out the next Presidential election in 2020 or actually vote against him.
Kropadope
@gene108:
Let’s stock up on books and long-form journalism!!!
Miss Bianca
@jeffreyw: OMG, the cuteness…
Roger Moore
@tobie:
A
roostercock crows and claims to have made the sun rise.Jeffro
@Это курам на смех:
Which I unintentionally copied at #109…sigh…haven’t had an original thought all thread, apparently.
Patricia Kayden
@hovercraft: So President Obama waited until he’s practically a lame duck to go after guns even though he has been in office for 8 years? That makes a load of sense.
**rolls eyes**
P.S. I can’t imagine what it must be like to believe such outlandish lies. It’s like an alternate, bizarro universe where up is down and black is white.
SatanicPanic
@Kropadope: oh that hit a little too close to home
cmorenc
To follow up on my comment (see #108 above), flip only 2.5% of the entire electorate who did turn out in 2016 – 1 in 20 voters across the board, and calculate what an enormous difference that would have made in Presidential and Senate contests. (True only a strategically redistributed 100K across Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania would have won Clinton the presidency by a hair – but instead a flip of 2.5% => 5% net difference, and Clinton would have won by a quite comfortable electoral and clear mandate-sized popular margin.)
We not only don’t need to reach everyone who voted for Trump beyond the incorrigible 27% of the electorate – we only need to flip a few % of them.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: No, if one thing is clear, it’s that black is black in their world.
Patricia Kayden
@Это курам на смех: Minorities have been buying guns in record numbers since Trump’s victory.
Chip Daniels
@Patricia Kayden:
The worst nightmare for a political type is if your opponent actually succeeds, like where in 2020 everyone has a good paying job, we are at peace, and Americans all live in harmony.
I’m putting my faith in the fact that GOP policies ARE in fact disastrous, that they CAN’T deliver the goods, and people WILL want some change.
What is also working in our favor, and little commented on, is that Trump appears to have firmly and irrevocably destroyed the Worship of the Free Market as the go-to GOP solution for economy, in favor of aggressive direct action by the gummint.
Sure his moves are stupid, but he is making legitimate, to millions and millions of people, the idea that gummint can and should have a direct interest in how your company acts.
Our victory will be when “Let the market take care of it” is a punchline, something Dems toss out at the speeches to raucus applause.
Jeffro
Interesting visualization of how people spend their day here.
Not included in the visualization (yet): stockpiling guns and ammo. Although that might count as “leisure” or “household care”
Mnemosyne
For people buying guns, please be sure to also sign up for target shooting and self-defense classes. That gun won’t do you any good if you can’t shoot the side of a barn with it.
And if (like me) you don’t want a gun in your house for mental health reasons, pepper spray is legal in most states. Check your local laws.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: You got me there.
Kropadope
@SatanicPanic: Oh, I’m sorry. Care to elaborate?
Baud
@Chip Daniels: Ok, Trump can’t both implement disastrous policies and make legitimate that government intervention works.
SatanicPanic
@Kropadope: I was just laughing because I’ve been stockpiling books! Bought at least a half dozen in the last 3 weeks. I have been doing other, more productive things though too.
Kropadope
@Patricia Kayden:
It’s only not true until it’s true. And it’s true if
people“Real” Americans believe it. I’ll even bet on some not-insignificant portion of Republicans believing Obama already has come after all the guns.Baud
@SatanicPanic: Make sure you have an extra pair of glasses with you in case yours breaks.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Sadly, that’s not why they feel that way. They don’t want repeal and delay because they don’t like the delay part. They want to get rid of Obamacare yesterday, so keeping it on life support while they dream up a replacement isn’t good enough.
Kropadope
@SatanicPanic: Heard that. My criteria for buying books always seems to be “does this sound interesting?” rather than “do I have the time or inclination to read this?” I’m struggling to remember which half of my library I already read.
Kropadope
@Baud:
That’s how this works right? Rs expand the government scope and awfulness. Ds fix it and try to help some people, can’t do it fast enough. Rs point out how broken the government is and dominate.
Baud
@Kropadope: That’s mostly the pattern. In 2000, the Rs had a slightly different take — the government was so successful in improving the economy that it was time to give the money back to the people through tax cuts.
Baud
@Roger Moore: Yeah, that was explained to me upstairs. Should have known.
SatanicPanic
@Kropadope: I know, a few I won’t get through, but I’ll try to hand them off to all the new meatspace friends I’ve made in recent weeks.
Chip Daniels
@Baud:
It won’t be Trump implementing them, it will be Trump’s Peronist command and control economic ideas clashing with Paul Ryan’s Randian fantasy, and people will prefer the Trump version.
Trump’s disastrous policies won’t be the economic ones; they will be the social and international affairs ones that result in China handing us our ass in some trade deal and making Trump look the fool.
People- Republicans included- love government intervention, subsidy, distortion. No one gives a shit about some abstract theology like the “free market”.
So whether it is a tax credit for Carrier, the $600 check that GWB sent out to all Americans in 2005, a porkbarrel program like the F-35, or just the EITC, people always rationalize why MY check from the Treasury is totes legitimate, while YOUR check is welfare.
By 2020, the idea that the Federal government has the duty to intervene will be accepted wisdom among the Beltway class.
I’m betting that the Chamber of Commerce types will be hungering for more skilled leadership in global trade deals.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Yeah, I have an unfortunate tendency to mix following a thread here and doing something else, like actual work. I wind up responding to something that other people have already dealt with.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Burgess Meredith, where are you now that we need you?
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I actually believed them, too! Relatedly, I was fifteen years old.
jeffreyw
In ur face, Old Man!
misterpuff
@Miss Bianca: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major: I was 17 and hoping they might start to pay down the debt. Pffft….
MomSense
I think my post election anxiety and grieving have become depression. I’ve increased my exercise, worked on my diet, reached out to my support system, and talked to my therapist. Time to call my doctor.
SFAW
@hovercraft:
Abbott’s just auditioning for his hoped-for new position as Emperor of Dumbfuckistan. Which, coincidentally, will not require him to move, once that wall along the Tejas (non-Mexico) border gets built. [Some quick calcs indicate that population density in Tejas/Dumbfuckistan will be about 550 persons per square mile, assuming TEFA’s 46 percent figure can be extrapolated to the general population.]
JPL
@MomSense: You are not alone.
ThresherK
@SiubhanDuinne: Not getting the disposable contacts or lasik surgery he really coulda used.
MomSense
@JPL:
Hugs, JPL.
Mary G
@MomSense: Mine increased my Wellbutrin dose and I am feeling a bit better and getting some non-political stuff done. Take care of yourself.
Iowa Old Lady
@SatanicPanic: Few things are more productive than stockpiling books.
Major Major Major Major
@Kropadope: I had caught on by that age, yes.
Chip Daniels
I think there is something to be said for that idea floating around, about how the Italians defeated Berluscioni, by not focusing on his outrageous manner, but on the simple politics and metrics.
In 2018, is unemployment higher or lower?
Cost of living?
How do those on Medicare/ disability/ Social Security feel towards the administration and Congress?
How’s that Trumpey-Changey thing workin’ out for ya?
Mike J
SFAW
@Roger Moore:
Not following your banter, Squiffy. Perhaps Squadron Leader can explain it to me.
Roger Moore
@Kropadope:
Clinton had already started to pay down the debt. Part of their justification for the tax cuts was that they didn’t want us to pay it down too far. The argument was that a lot of debt was held by Social Security and was legally required to be held as treasury bonds. That meant that well before we had paid down the debt to nothing, we would have run out of debt we could actually pay off and would have to start buying assets instead. They didn’t want the government buying up assets, since that’s way too close to socialism, so they wanted to stop running a surplus.
It was a dumb argument at the time they were making it, since we were still years away from getting to the point where Social Security was the only holder of treasury bonds, and there was plenty of risk that something else would come along and end the surplus without raising taxes. It strikes me as similar to the arguments that we have to start cutting Social Security benefits now to preserve the solvency of the system thirty years from now. Also, too, there were other kinds of assets the government could have bought, like state and local government bonds, that wouldn’t have created a risk of the feds owning too much of the economy. It was just a fancy excuse for why we needed tax cuts for the 1%.
MomSense
@Mary G:
Thanks. Glad you are feeling better. I’m not currently on medication and I think it’s situational but it still feels bad.
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
I’ve been able to stave it off by retreating into the fantasy world of my novel, so that’s helping a bit. Plus they give me uppers for my ADHD! ?
Speaking of which, if you don’t have any of the contraindications, you may want to give Wellbutrin a shot. IIRC, you’re in the ADHD club with me, and it’s generally considered the best anti-depressant for ADHDers. Talk to your doctor, obvs.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks, Mnem. I’ve heard good things about it for those to us in the ADHD club.
I should try to finish my children’s story but I can’t focus on it.
Jay S
@Miss Bianca: I’ve been working on the theory that a lot of Trump voters saw him as a Music Man type con artist and not the “steal you and the rest of your family blind and laugh at you when you ask for your money back” type.
Pogonip
@Kropadope: Me too. I’ve got a big old pile of books. Fortunately they’re on a Kindle. So technically I am long-term-renting the books rather than buying them.
hovercraft
@MomSense:
Sending positive thoughts your way. Virtual hug.
hovercraft
@SFAW:
I’m thinking there’s a very crowded slate for the job.
Roger Moore
In a bit of good news, the Supreme Court has ruled that insider trading laws apply when insiders give tips to friends and family, even if no money changes hands. Even better, this was a unanimous decision, so it’s unlikely to be overturned no matter who gets appointed to the current vacancy on the court.
MomSense
@hovercraft:
Thank you. Hugs right back.
Kropadope
@Roger Moore:
Fixt
magurakurin
@Baud: you win the thread in a place we call…
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: Something to cheer you up. As a dancer you will appreciate her flawless form
Shiva Tandava* by Nitisha Nanda
Tandava== Shiva’s dance of cosmic destruction.
I also like this one.
Three classical dance forms together (Kathak, Bharatnatyam and Odissi) in a fusion number
Women in the skirts are doing kathak, the women in long braids, Bharatnatyam and Nanda and the only male performer are performing Odissi
Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuAdQyWUdyA
Ksmiami
@Damien: I’m there with you. I get a huge tax cut which I will save cause of YOYO Republicanism. Don’t know what rural whites are going to do without medicare and social security. MOOCHERs, all.
schrodinger's cat
Help! I is in moderation.
Ksmiami
@Botsplainer: I like the way they handled Mussolini and his wife… Aah history;
Booger
@jeffreyw: You called?
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
@JPL:
I’m another who wakes up at around 3:00-3:30 a.m. most mornings and stays awake for an hour or two after that. I have spent most of 2016 in a low-level depression, but since November 8th it has really escalated. I tend to be a “mind-over-matter” type, and resist seeking professional help, but I think it may be time to climb down off my horse (the “mind” is having no effect at all on the “matter,” anyhow) and get therapy/meds as required. (I’m not at all suicidal, so don’t worry about me on that front — it’s mostly that I’m lethargic/immobile during the day and insomniacal at night.)
SiubhanDuinne
@ThresherK:
Heh. Tell Rod Serling.
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
My intention was not to hijack or one-up, but to empathize. I’m completely there with you. You have my love, and gratitude, and a few miscellaneous hugs thrown in for good measure.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
Please do check in with your doctor and/or therapist. Sometimes we all need some help. Big hugs, SD.
schrodinger's cat
Trying again because earlier comments are still stuck in moderation
@MomSense: @MomSense: Something to cheer you up. As a dancer you will appreciate her flawless form
Shiva Tandava* by Nitisha Nanda
Tandava== Shiva’s dance of cosmic destruction.
I also like this one.
Three classical dance forms together (Kathak, Bharatnatyam and Odissi) in a fusion number
Women in the skirts are doing kathak, the women in long braids, Bharatnatyam and Nanda and the only male performer are performing Odissi
Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuAdQyWUdyA
hovercraft
Well lookie here.
McConnell: Obamacare repeal measure coming within weeks
These people are insane.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
No, I’m glad you shared. I think there are a lot of us struggling with depression, anxiety, and insomnia. We have to stick together and support each other. I think it helps to share and hopefully encourage others to seek help. Xoxoxo
MomSense
@schrodinger’s cat:
Oooh, thank you.
amk
the bestest murkkkan export.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: mm sounds kinda like he’s open to the idea of repeal and replace with something though.
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
Thank you.
schrodinger's cat
@SiubhanDuinne: {{ }} when is your surgery scheduled?
Steve in the ATL
@MomSense: add me to the list. My nights are split between not be able to fall asleep until 3 am, and falling asleep at 1 am and waking up at 3 am.
I haven’t had a day yet where I did not get upset over this clusterfuck multiple times.
Wellbutrin and similar drugs make me too zombie-like, so I take nortryptiline. Which also helps prevent headaches.
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: @MomSense: Love and hugs to you both. I think anyone who isn’t depressed and anxious is a little nuts. I thank FSM for Balloon Juice. I almost never comment anywhere else these days.
raven
Awright goddamitt ya’ll are taking each other down the fucking tubes. Go down fighting, fuck all this down in the mouth shit.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodinger’s cat:
My appointment with the optometrist isn’t until January (he is booked solid, then will be away for about three weeks and the office closed), so I imagine it won’t be until late Jan-early Feb. and bear in mind, this is my own diagnosis of surgery-ready cataracts. I’ll see what he has to say. I’m quite eager to have it done.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
Backatcha, Mary G. I can’t imagine the kind of despair I’d be in right now if it weren’t for the BJ community. Thanks so much.
Major Major Major Major
@raven: done anything cool lately? I’m gonna watch Zootopia tonight.
MomSense
@Steve in the ATL:
Well at least I’m in good company! I hope the meds are helping and that you can start sleeping again. Hugs to you.
@Mary G:
We are quite the bunch. Hugs, MaryG.
Iowa Old Lady
That we’re all so affected by this is a sign of how unusual Trump is. We’ve all been on the losing side of national elections before. In all the years I’ve been voting, I had only three winning presidential candidates–Carter, Clinton, and Obama. And none of the other losses affected me this way.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Watching Rachel Maddow– Did Mattis appear at one of the hair furor’s rallies today or tonight? I’ve been thinking that he was at least going to be a normal adult inside of this baboon colony of an administration. This makes me think maybe I’ve been overestimating him.
Good christ, now the Soft Bank thing…? We are through the fucking looking glass, Alice.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Down in the mouth is part of it, and it lasts longer for some people than for others (or shows up at random, unexpected times). Personally, I can get all fired up about joining the résistance and simultaneously just want to curl up in a little fetal ball and sob myself to sleep.
To everything there is a season.
raven
@Major Major Major Major: Nah, just trying to help the girl get through this broken wrist. She got the big cast off and it’s causing her a lot of pain. The doc said it was all normal so we just have to push through. Tomorrow is 75 years since Pearl Harbor, imagine how people felt then. My old man was already in the Navy and was in front of the San Diego Y when the word came to get their asses back to their ships. There were guys who had been in the Navy ONE Day and they got on board and went to sea. No one knew what was going to happen.
Millard Filmore
@SiubhanDuinne:
I am completely the opposite, being a Mind Under Matter type.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Just trying to present a different perspective.
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes, that’s what keeps knocking me for a loop. I think of the other 15-16-17 candidates in the GOP primaries, and I honestly think that any single one of them — yes, including Cruz — would have been someone I could at least accept as legitimate, if not fully embrace. I would have been angry and sad and upset, but I don’t think I would have been in the depths of despair such as I am currently experiencing. God help me, Jeb Bush would be a welcome alternative now. Rubio. Perry, FFS.
Major Major Major Major
@raven: isn’t some feller from Japan paying a visit?
Iowa Old Lady
@SiubhanDuinne: Maybe it’s the uncertainty. I have no idea what Trump will do. It feels like it could be anything.
Also, Trump is just so obviously unfit for the office. He’s not just of a different political philosophy.
joel hanes
@Mary G:
I think anyone who isn’t depressed and anxious is a little nuts.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
My uncle was stationed at Pearl on 12/7/41. He was in the Army, on land. I didn’t know him well; he died in 2000. I think my cousin (his son) knows more than I do.
On a different topic, are you aware that December 8 (in some calendars) is International Bodhi Day? Depending on the lunar system used, it can also be in January. It is the anniversary of the day the Buddha obtained enlightenment. Thought you might want to arrange for an extra treat for your Bohdi.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Done. I was explaining to someone today that I had misspelled his name when we found his little butt.
Mary G
@Steve in the ATL: Not to be one-upping people, but I’ve been severely depressed most of my life and I take Wellbutrin and nortryptiline and Prozac all three. I had been on any number of anti-depressants and none of them ever quite worked. Finally somebody sent me to the guy who at the time was the head of psychiatry at County/USC in LA. (So he had met a lot of interesting people, I’m sure.) He did some tests and said to take this threesome. I was kind of offended, as I was functioning pretty well and didn’t think I was THAT bad. He looked at me and said “I wear trifocal glasses, because I don’t see well at any distance.” You have chemical imbalances in your brain that need these three drugs in the very same way, so try it.” That was 20 years ago and it has worked so well that I plan to continue for the rest of my life. But its election was such a shock that I did backslide enough that I had the dosage adjusted.
@Steve in the ATL: Do new doctors laugh at the nortryptiline? Mine do. I guess it’s ancient, and certainly cheap, I take it at night and it helps with sleep a lot. They sometimes want to switch me to one of the new ones that’s three-in-one. Even though I’m seeing them for something completely different and didn’t ask.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Found my cousin’s brief recollection.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
I have retained some of the photos of him as a lil puppy. He was adorable, and has matured into such a great dignified dog.
Dognified.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Good shooting. Adam is going to do a Pearl thread tomorrow.
SiubhanDuinne
@joel hanes:
Heh. I know it’s not exactly comme il faut these days, but I absolutely adore Franny & Zooey and all the other Glass family stories. So thanks.
Patricia Kayden
@charluckles: What the hell is “real America” anyways?
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Oh, cool, I’ll share what little I know about my uncle in Adam’s thread.
I was born long enough ago that Pearl Harbor Day was a thing when I was a kid. We always observed it at school, and my family never failed to mention it on the anniversary.
My mom was only about 2 or 3 weeks pregnant with me when the attacks happened. She probably didn’t even know she was expecting (she and my dad got married in late November) but I wonder if she had that feeling of “what kind of world am I bringing my child into?” Maybe all new parents have similar qualms.
Zinsky
Trumpenfuhrer fleeced the rubes good on this one. There’s a reason all of those bogus, cinnamon herbal cures for diabetes run on conservative talk radio programs. There’s also a good reason Donald Trump is in the world wrestling hall of fame. The sheep and the fleecer have found each other – big league!
Steve in the ATL
@Mary G:
I get it from my neurologist for headaches, but he says it’s good for mild depression and anxiety as well. He likes it, but he is obviously not a psych and doesn’t care about prescribing the shiny, new drugs!
PIGL
@hedgehog the occasional commenter: I think that is the best possible outcome at this point.
Ajabu
@Ksmiami:
Actually, Mussolini was killed (and hung upside down) with his mistress, Clara Petacci, not his wife.
And, even more interesting, his youngest son, Romano was a fairly good jazz pianist and had a string of recordings in the 50’s & 60’s. They said he was an efficient player, he made the refrains run on time…
History is wonderful.
hedgehog mobile
@schrodinger’s cat: Thank you. That was beautiful.
joel hanes
@Patricia Kayden:
What the hell is “real America” anyways?
Answer begins at the 12:40 mark in This brilliant extended sketch