Hat tip to commentor Timothy C. Per the NYTimes:
RALEIGH, N.C. — Ending an acrimonious stalemate that dragged on for nearly a month, Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, conceded in his bid for re-election here on Monday, clearing the way for the ascension of his challenger, the Democrat Roy Cooper, and giving the national Democratic Party a rare cause for celebration.
Mr. Cooper, the state attorney general, declared victory on election night, but Mr. McCrory’s allies lodged election challenges in dozens of North Carolina counties, enraging Democrats who accused Republicans of being sore losers, or worse, in one of 2016’s closest statewide races.
Most of the challenges proved to be of little consequence, however. And by Monday, as partial results of a recount of more than 90,000 votes that Republicans had demanded in Durham County showed no significant change in the results, Mr. McCrory — whose one term was buffeted by nationwide anger over a law he signed that curbed anti-discrimination protections for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people — had little choice but to admit defeat…
***********
Apart from taking our wins where we can, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
Baud
Much needed good news. I know a lot of people were worried about the legislature’s threats to steal the election, but this is why you never give up.
Baud
And congrats Governor-elect Cooper.
PsiFighter37
NYT published an op-ed by a GOP Electoral College voter who will not vote for Trump. Sounds like he is going to vote for Kasich…these GOP party folk need to understand that they have to vote for Clinton if there is any chance. You throw the election to the House, there are enough nutjobs in it to still elect Trump.
Major Major Major Major
He still might pull his little court-packing stunt, right?
ETA: @PsiFighter37: Not voting for Trump might make the elector feel better but it does nothing if it goes to Kasich other than… make the elector feel better. Which is probably the point.
Baud
@PsiFighter37: If Trump has to be president, I guess it’s better optics for us to have the House make it so.
Obviously, electors going with Clinton would be the ideal.
ruemara
Processing living in a country where my life is worthless if a crooked cop deems it so, even with video evidence. Plus hitting the gym and packing some christmas gifts. Then back to wondering where in the world can I go?
Shell
How long did it take for Al Franken to finally claim his seat in Congress?
kindness
Who else has seen the Crooks & Liars Democrats Have 1 Shot At Saving Garland’s Supreme Court Seat?
Apparently if Biden would have to convene Congress early 1/3/17 prior to the new Senate being sworn in, and they could vote and get Garland his seat. It’s crazy (& cool). The right would go nuts. How would we know that though? They are already nuts. Go see the linked article.
I wish I thought Democrats had the balls to carry this out. I don’t believe they do. So please surprise me Senators!
Baud
@ruemara: I hear ya. I got nothing.
@Shell: Much longer. It went into the spring, I believe.
Baud
@kindness: But why would GOP Senators vote yes now, even if they were forced to have an up or down vote?
ETA: Ok, that plan is dumb. And I hate the fact that Dems now somehow have to implement that dumb plan in order to be “courageous.”
trollhattan
@Shell: Half a year. IIRC he was sworn in on or around July 4. Ted Kennedy died the next month.
Gvg
@kindness: I don’t know what that is about. How could the Dems be in the majority for a few minutes? I don’t believe it. Sorry.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: @Gvg: Yeah, I don’t get it. Also it relies on Biden, a long time Romantic institutionalist about the Senate, becoming a rebel, to say nothing of the Usual Suspects, Joe Mancin, Claire McCaskill, Heidi Headlamp, etc etc
@Gvg: as I understand it, the outgoing Senators’ terms will expire, at midnight? on 12/31? and before the new ones are sworn in, the Dems will have a majority, 34 out of 66 or 67 seats?
mai naem mobile
I am glad Cooper won but I didn’t realize he has to deal with GOP super majorities in the state legislature. How can that be? That is some extreme gerrymandering. There will be a special place in hell for John Roberts for gutting the VRA among many many things.
? Martin
@Gvg: Because there’s a gap between when the outgoing Senate exists and the incoming Senate is sworn in. Anyone who was up for election this cycle (and anyone new) isn’t actually a senator in that gap, and in that gap it turns out that there are more Ds than Rs (more Republicans were up for re-election than Dems this cycle). It’s a fluke not just of how one Congress rolls into the next, but also of who was up for election this turn. The idea is that Biden, as president of the Senate, calls the Senate into session during that gap, after those senators’ whose terms expired in 2016 are formally gone, and before those senators whose term starts in 2017 are actually recognized as senators.
It’s dumb, but no dumber than the electoral college or refusing to vote on supreme court justices, so why not?
Shana
I’m at a talk about P.G. Wodehouse at the Smithsonian. May have a lead or two on a speaker for October’s convention. Somewhat surprisingly it seems to be sold out.
Jeffro
On the agenda for tonight:
– promoting Charles Blow’s latest far and wide
– promoting Evan McMullin’s op-ed far and wide
– trying to get folks in higher ed to watch out for these clowns
and then, the big enchilada:
– getting folks to realize that an EC win for Trump is not a done deal…even if it’s going to go to the House (which it doesn’t have to, if Hillz plays her cards right)…let’s deny Orangemandias the title!!!
THEN, maybe
– working on a spring break trip for the family (somewhere in Europe)…Rome/Florence, maybe?
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: I thought McMullin’s was great.
ETA: We booked three hundred dollar flights from SFO to Iceland yesterday via this. Also has flights from LAX.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Baud: Because they might think Trump is going to stick a fruite loop in there who will turn the court into a reality show.
SatanicPanic
@? Martin:
The rules ended November 9th. Anyone pretending otherwise is dumber than this scheme. DO IT.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Iceland is very cool.
Major Major Major Major
@SatanicPanic: Yeah, I kind of feel like this most of the time right now.
Waynski
@Jeffro: Haven’t been to Rome, but Florence is a treasure. Also, if you’re in Florence, take the day bus trip to Sienna.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
Crazy cheap. Northern lights! No way to prepare for the cold, just wear seven inches of down at all times.
Jim Foolish Literalist
Anybody remember the awful WaPo Ombudsman from the mid-Bush years? Deborah Something, a horrible person. I think she’s now the second worse Ombuds of the century
Why would any person with any self respect go on a Tucker Carlson show, FFS>
SatanicPanic
@Major Major Major Major: It’s bananas. There’s no wrong anymore. We might as well lean into it because it’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
Major Major Major Major
@SatanicPanic: Well, if everything is truly fucked, I can always just not come back from Iceland in February.
chris
Open thread needs more cats. Because it made me laugh for the first time in a while. Also smiling at the news out of NC.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: I mean they took in Fischer and he was basically just a tax protestor.
lamh36
@CNBC
EXCLUSIVE: CEO of Carrier’s parent co.: There wasn’t any deal w/ Trump, he simply asked us to take a hard look at it
Mike in NC
McCrory’s worst appointment was arguably Ilario Pantano as head of the NC VA. He had been kicked out of the Marines for shooting a couple of unarmed Iraqi civilians, but was a RWNJ supreme who ran for Congress a couple of times.
? Martin
@lamh36: And Pence just coincidentally decided to hand them $7M…
lamh36
SMH…Sorry John…you can keep WV…smh
Dem senator had ‘constructive’ talk with Trump
12/05/16 03:20 PM EST
Steve in the ATL
@Jeffro:
Rome can be done in a day (though I expect to get yelled at for saying that). Vatican museum is the most amazing collection of stolen art in the world. Coliseum, palatine hill, circus, Trevi fountain, Via Veneto and ruins can be done in half a day. protestant cemetery is cool too. “Protestant” in Rome includes Jews and Muslims, FYI.
While you’re in the area, Pompeii is freaking awesome.
Florence is too.
lamh36
Ugh Tom Cruise…damnit the bastard does know how to make a damn good action film! Still I miss Brendan Fraser!!
The Mummy (2017) Teaser Trailer
Feebog
Oh my Dog but that would be sweet. I hope Dems go for it. Unprecedented? Sure. But so was holding Garland’s nomination for almost a year.
Major Major Major Major
@Steve in the ATL: I liked Castel Sant’Angelo.
lamh36
@tanehisicoates
Re: Walter Scott. When DA sounds like the defense, can’t really be surprised by a mistrial. This is incredible.http://www.nytimes.com/…/walter-scott-michael-slager-north-… …
Enhanced Voting Techniques
My god, have you all read about Pizza Gate nonsense? They claim Hillary is runing a child sex trafficing ring out of the basement of some pizza joint in Washington DC. No wonder the Wingnuts sound like they are from planet Mars with all the protect your daughters from Hillary muttering they do.
schrodinger's cat
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: No, and I don’t want to. Why are you reading it, anyway?
Kay
Full throated defense of public education could work wonders for Democrats in governor’s races.
Big issue in 3 races they won- Pennsylvania, Louisiana and North Carolina.
Just a suggestion- sometimes things aren’t mysterious and complex :)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lamh36: There is only one Cruise defintive role – Less Grosman from Tropic Thunder.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: possibly because somebody was arrested for bringing a gun there?
lamh36
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: ha…it amazing how great he was in that…I swear read somewhere how Ben Stiller got Cruise to agree to do the role, but I forget where and why..
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: I am still on a news blackout. I only check the headlines at Wash Post and then comments and posts here.
Iowa Old Lady
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah and General Flynn promoted the theory.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: Flynn’s kid was tweeting about it and somebody tried to shoot up the place.
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
You wonder how many people believed it. I wouldn’t be surprised of it was “millions”. A million. God knows what was coursing thru the wingnut bloodstream about Clinton. I heard the story that Obama banned the pledge of allegiance several times, stated as fact.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@schrodinger’s cat: Talking Point Memo was going on about it, some wingnut was about to shoot the place up today to save all the children.
But the flip side to this is excellent material to mock a wingnut when they try to change the topic from Trump to Hillary “Oh, yes, I am talking to someone who believes, in the sense children believe in Santa Clause, the absurdist idea Hillary runs a child molestation ring out of a pizza joint so they voted for a guy who pimps underaged girls call girls in NYC, all based on some tweets out of some random a-hole on the Internet. Tell me, how do you feel about being an utterly gullible sap? Did you also send them your social security number and mother’s maiden name to fight this danger?”
gene108
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I am a bit up on #pizzagate. If you really want to get into the weeds Google “John Podesta Pool Party”.
It’s another off shoot of #pizzagate.
We live in a post-truth era. Objective facts no longer exist. Paranoid fantasies are reality.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@lamh36: Tom was supposed to play the lead but then they asked Tom to do Less and Tom just went to town with it. Even brought in his own make up artist to get the Less look right. Clearly Tom’s Muse was on him big time then.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: That much I know from reading the comments here. News blackout is a way to preserve my sanity.
Kay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
The child trafficking thing is bigger than the one conspiracy theory re: Clinton. It’s big among religious conservatives. Obviously it exists but they seem to wildly inflate the scope of it. It reminds me of when they were obsessed with children and satanic ritual. That was a thing with them too, in the 1980’s and 1990’s. Remember that? How they went crazy with believing everyone was involving children in satanic rituals?
rikyrah
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Always cracks me up??
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: FB, Twitter and so called reality tv has rotted people’s brains. One party feasts on the brains too.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: It’s curious that coming here is how you preserve your sanity.
I kid, I kid. I get it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@gene108: No, I should, and we really should collecting this because this is the kind of nonsense we can really do something with on the wingnuts in our lives. Not much is going to get into the echo chamber, but mocking laughter will.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: with Dungeons & Dragons!
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: We are all mad here, but at least we don’t swim in the sewer of paranoid fantasies. Well, most of us.
Lizzy L
@lamh36: Joe fucking Manchin. Do not be surprised.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kay: Yes! And it was their idea of attacking the gays too. Instead they ended up accusing each other a lot.
ThresherK
@lamh36: I am listening a lot to the musical Parade, one of those difficult Broadway musicals which I seem drawn to.
The Leo Frank case sounds like the mirror image of this.
gene108
@Kay:
Satanic rituals are making a comeback
Snopes link
You can call it “spirit cooking”, but we all know you are cooking for the spirit of Satan.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: or if we do, we make sure to wear two wetsuits.
@gene108: so is Dungeons & Dragons. COINCIDENCE?!
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
True, but the satanic ritual madness was well before Facebook or Twitter. There were whole bogus criminal cases based on it.
It was nuts. They were convicting teenagers based on silly drawings of pentagrams and wearing too much black eye liner. Police were giving lectures on it in schools in the 1990’s. Conservatives + religion + children = nuts. Always.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Is this some new version of the blood libel?
Kay
@gene108:
Oh, God, I bet. Whenever they get riled up they start wacky children’s policy. Any law named after a child should have a mandatory one year waiting period before passage. They’re ALWAYS bad.
We’re just now cleaning up the mess they made with designating tens of thousands of juveniles sex offenders. I watched it happen and I knew it would be huge over-kill and it was. They never learn. It’s like fads.
You need practical people around children, not excitable maniacs. “Practical” is hugely under-rated regarding children.
gene108
@Kay:
The #pizzagate scandal has blown up well outside of religious circles.
The non-religious conspiracy minded folks, i.e. Monsanto is trying to kill us all with GMO crops, vaccines are a kick back scheme for big pharmaceuticals, by government because vaccines are worthless and exist to pad big pharma’s pockets, 9/11/01 was an inside job, etc, have hooked onto this and will not let it go.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
IANA psychologist, but I sometimes wonder if this is some kind of displacement. The Christianists know on some subconscious level that their chosen policies are hurting actual children, so they displace that damage onto unknown other people who are doing even worse things to kids, so therefore they don’t have to feel bad about denying school lunches and food stamps to actual living children.
It’s a theory, anyway.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
And the worst part with those trials is that the quack psychologists and stupid prosecutors managed to convince those kids that they were traumatized and needed to recover the memories, so now you have all these young adults dealing with PTSD from things that never actually happened that trusted adults filled their heads with.
IIRC, it turned out that the first mother to complain in the McMartin preschool case had a documented history of mental illness and psychosis, but the cops and prosecutors believed her anyway.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
This is my own personal theory but when conservatives get jittery they seem to go nuts over one or another issue where “children are at risk”. 80’s, 90’s 00’s. Every ten years. It’s not that these things don’t exist. There is sex trafficking of children. It’s that they go insane. I don’t know what it is. It seems to go along with societal changes they find unsettling. Remember the day care panic in the 1980’s? That was, in my opinion, a response to women in the workplace. They freaked and thought all day care operators were abusing children. It was tragic. People went to prison for decades. A Panic.
Mnemosyne
In escapist news, I somehow managed to screw up the scheduling of the post, but there’s another Weekend Movie Club poll up at Schrodinger’s Cat’s place: Cary Grant movies!
Vote early, vote often.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay:
Actually, it sounds like you know exactly what it is.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
I started playing D&D in the 1980’s and there was this fear among some adults about its corrupting influence, whether or not they believed much in heaven or hell, because it got linked to something bad and they were not familiar with the game themselves.
It was like, “oh, you’re playing that Dungeons and Dragons game. I heard it can lead to bad things. You sure you’ll be all right?”
It really did draw a negative connotation.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Was a child in the 80s so the cray cray in that decade escaped me. I just don’t get the conservative mindset. It makes no sense, and unlike many here, I have zero interest in finding what makes them tick.
Major Major Major Major
@gene108: ever see the Chick tract?
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
I did a whole project once on the fake day care abuse cases and that’s what it seemed like to me. Women were putting small children in daycare and that was a change that frightened people, so daycare become this house of horrors.
It’s wild what can happen when one of these panics takes off.
I’m actually more comfortable with daycare than I am with one adult non-parent caretaker in a home. People behave better when there are other adults around. There’s much less likely to be abuse when there are other daycare workers – they all have to be in on it. The more sunshine and sets of eyes the better.
Mike in NC
@Mnemosyne: Without a question his best movie was “North By Northwest”.
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major: mcMullin is having the odd effect on me that an actual principled conservative, while second place at best to an actual principled progressive, is not something to be feared. Not even a 10th as much as an unstable emperor wannabe man-baby
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
I missed that. Thanks for posting.
ThresherK
@Mnemosyne: Notorious.
Oh, wait. Was I supposed to look at the link first?
ETA: I guess it will be His Girl Friday.
Jeffro
@Waynski: Rome is great, but if we go we are going to build in at least two or three full days in Florence . Thanks for the recommendation about Sienna as well!!
Mnemosyne
@Mike in NC:
In that genre, I would vote for “Notorious,”
though obviously he’s a lot more morally ambiguous there.
But we’re going for light, escapist screwball comedy this time around.
Jeffro
@Steve in the ATL: I hear you – my brother and I went to Rome back in 2007 and spent two full days on the ground in Rome plus a day at the Vatican plus a day in ostia Antica ( instead of Pompeii)which was amazing. Probably still the best vacation/trip I’ve ever had. I think that starting with the Borghese gallery set a great tone for the whole thing.
Mnemosyne
@ThresherK:
I now realize I should have specified “screwball comedy.” :-) Or, I guess, go to the link.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne:Love that movie. Rear Window is another Hitchcock favorite of mine, although its Jimmy Stewart not Cary Grant, who is the lead in that one.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: The Amirault case in Mass was a classic of the genre.
Mnemosyne
@ThresherK:
The poll runs until Friday, so there’s plenty of time for one of the other films to take the lead.
Jeffro
@Kay: and let’s not forget that Hillary was going to tax churches into bankruptcy ( Heard this from my mom and several others ) in addition to selling uranium to Russia ( Heard this from a lunatic soccer parent on my son’s team , after she tried to promote that stupid “Clinton cash” documentary to us )
Jeffro
@schrodinger’s cat: yes. SATSQ
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
It’s hard to think of a bad Cary Grant movie, or at least a movie that he’s bad in. Usually, even if the movie itself isn’t that great, he’s still good.
ThresherK
@Mnemosyne: Damn those multifacted talents of Old Hollywood!
Kay
Here’s what I say to Trumpsters now when I run into them and they bitch (like they do- constantly). I tell them Donald Trump will fix everything so they should be happy.
I suggest it. It drives them fucking crazy and there’s a payoff- you won’t have to listen to them whine.
Today I was telling them the GOP would make health care free. 100% ..free!
I personally cannot wait until Donald Trump and Paul Ryan create shangri la. They have until June, I figure, until their miserable malcontent “base” turns on them. They are happy when liberals are sad, so don’t act sad. I suggest extreme chirpiness and eager anticipation of the day America becomes Great Again. Ask them every day if we’re there yet :)
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: Like Shahrukh Khan or Amitabh Bachan, even if the movie is bad, they shine.
Baud
@Kay:
I endorse this. It’s their responsibility now. We are not in this together.
Also remind them that Trump is a successful businessman when they ask you for money. They should go to him instead.
ThresherK
@schrodinger’s cat: Something which used to be trivia (before the internet was invented): Ross Bagdasarian is the piano player in an adjacent apartment in Rear Window. You can tell it’s him because of the three stuffed chipmunks on his piano and the big tank of helium next to it.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I’m more of a jerk than you — if any Trumper complains, I say, “This is what you voted for.” But I don’t run into too many here in So Cal (though they are out and proud in larger numbers than you’d think).
Mike in NC
@Jeffro: NRA ran lots of ads here about “Hillary’s Gun Ban” to apparently good effect with the dimwits.
Kay
@Jeffro:
One of the reasons I like my (newish) son in law is he’s a (practicing) Methodist and he recognized Clinton as a religious person. It’s obvious. She uses so many religious frames and phrases! This is a common language! These people are dolts. A goddammned moron could hear it. A 5 year old.
None of them were paying attention in vacation bible school, if they even attended, which I doubt. :)
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: @Major Major Major Major:
It only takes that last snowflake to start an avalanche … One elector refusing to vote for Trump is one more than we had yesterday and we still have two weeks until the electoral college votes .
A third best outcome is it getting thrown into the House – at least then they would have to own it even if it means making Pence president. He is a right wing nightmare down the line but at least he is not unstable like trump.
The second best outcome is Hillary stepping up to the plate and saying to the Trump electors: “vote for me and I will form a unity government including Republicans in many offices” ( or even offer to resign after she has been sworn in turning the whole thing over to not very scary Tim Kaine, who could then go one step further and make John Kasich his VP )
The best outcome of course is obvious and the one that won 2.6 million more votes more than Donald Trump: Hillz! But some of these electors are so brainwashed on crap like “Clinton cash” that they will never vote for Hillary and take their chances with Trump instead.
Let’s support the people who are pressuring the electors to do the right thing. It is our last best chance to avoid disaster
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
The awful truth about The Awful Truth is that it’s not really funny, merely amusing. The only characters who exhibit so much as a scintilla of maturity are the young children.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: I haven’t come across any Trumper IRL, thank ceiling cat, yet.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: Also too, I like Gregory Peck. Both him and Cary Grant, easy on the eyes and charming on onscreen. So much better looking than the scruffy Ryan Goslings and the like.
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
None But the Lonely Heart
@NotMax
Wishing I’d thought of Topper when you were soliciting screwball comedy suggestions.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
I’m surrounded by them. Soon I go to the Republican Lawyer’s Christmas Party (not the real name of the event but it may as well be) so I’m practicing :)
No moping around in front of them! They live for that shit. They’re all free traders so I plan to discuss TARIFFS, except I’ll say “those are just TAXES, right? He’s raising TAXES- good!”
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Mnemosyne:
Haven’t watched it in years, but I thought he was sort of blah in Walk, Don’t Run. But that seems almost uncharitable, because it was his last movie. And for some reason Houseboat bugs me, because it feels like he’s going through the motions of “doing the Cary Grant thing.” Maybe that’s because the screwball comedy genre was a little tired by the late ’50s, plus I always had trouble suspending disbelief on the whole “I’m irritated by my exasperating nanny, who is Sophia fucking Loren!” thing.
magurakurin
@Jeffro: I would suggest just renting an apartment in Florence for the bulk if not all of your trip. You could plan a couple nights in Rome to some of the main sights there and then head off to Florence. But it would be possible to just fly into Florence, get the apartment and work day trips into your time in Florence. Rome is 90 minutes away, Venice is two hours and Pisa 50 minutes by train. And as was mentioned it is possible to visit some of the smaller towns in Tuscany fairly easily by bus from Florence (other small towns not so much though, hard access.)
We spent five nights in an apartment in Florence and it was great. This year we rented a small 18th century house in Lisbon and stayed there for our entire two week trip. It really sold me on doing the “base camp” style of travel. This coming April we rented a villa in Vietri sul mare/Salerno area for 10 nights and plan to do a similar sort of trip. And Lisbon is a really great destination if you aren’t hard and fast on going to Italy. Having an apartment is really good in many ways, but some people like hotels, so it depends on what you like. We liked being able to make our own breakfast and being able to all be together at night having snacks at watching tv or talking. For a family, it is really good, I think.
As for Rome in a day, a hundred days is probably not long enough, so if one day is all you could manage it would still be infinitely better than none. With travel, you see what you see, go where you go and you never “see it all.” But personally, if I only had one day to visit Rome, I wouldn’t go to the Vatican unless I was a devout Catholic or big time on history. And even the second one, not so much. I didn’t find it all that interesting, actually. Long waits in line, then endless cueing through hallways of old pope clothes until you reach the Sistine Chapel. Amazing to be sure, but the experience is lessened by the relative darkness which really prevents careful viewing of the work very high and far away. And the endless shouts of the Italian guards yelling “no fotos” and the endless mobs of tourists taking photos is not very special. I passed on the cue to the St. Peter’s and spent the time that the others did in there eating gelato in St. Peter’s square watching the families enjoying the day, and wandering along the river. That, to me, was Rome. And those two hours were actually worth the price of admission. The Coliseum and the Roman Forum is pretty cool though, I would go there instead of the Vatican. But it depends on what you like.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: have a holly jolly Christmas party!
Mike in NC
@schrodinger’s cat: Gregory Peck, amazing American icon and Democratic Party activist.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@magurakurin: I’ve never been to Rome, I hope to correct that fairly soon. It’s definitely the ancient stuff that appeals to me. Without doing any research, I always thought I would like to spend at least a week there, but wandering aimlessly is my idea of a great travel day–worked better in Paris than London. Your description of the Vatican is pretty much what I always thought it would be
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Walk, Don’t Run was okay as a swan song, certainly better than his next to last film, Father Goose, was.
Really more of a Jim Hutton movie which happens to have Cary Grant in it. Still and all, a lukewarm remake of The More the Merrier, with Joel McCrea, Jean Arthur and Charles Cobuirn each in fine mettle.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: I don’t envy you. On the other hand, there is a pall over everyone here, it almost feels like someone has died. The only house with Trump signs in the neighborhood, has disappeared all those signs. I wonder why.
frosty
@Kay:
That’s delightfully evil! Nothing like a smile and a pat on the back while you tweak them on the nose.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Steeplejack (tablet):
ETA: Not that Houseboat was a screwball comedy, but it had some of those elements—characters thrown together in an improbable situation to humorous effect.
NotMax
@schrodinger’s cat
Probably trying to hawk them on eBay.
schrodinger's cat
@NotMax: May be. The town and the county went overwhelmingly for HRC, she got more 70% of the vote here in most towns.
magurakurin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I only spent three nights in Rome, far too little. But it definitely isn’t like Paris in terms of being good for wandering aimlessly. You need a bit of plan and a bus map…or lots of money for taxis…because the city is large and sprawling and in between the interesting stuff is just city. Not uninteresting, but not the sort of “discovery around every corner” that Paris produces…and also New York City for that matter. Florence, on the other hand, is amazing for wandering aimlessly. The whole place is a museum, a living museum. Lisbon is also decent for aimless wandering, but the hills present challenges. Other cities I found good for aimless wandering include Barcelona and Valencia, but the latter is fairly small. San Francisco is also good but like Lisbon the hills are tough…but the views.
NotMax
@Schrodinger’s cat
Strictly for the record, Hawaii statewide results (Maui county – Maui + Molokai + Lanai – results in parentheses):
(D) CLINTON, Hillary / KAINE, Tim 254,040 61.1% (33,479 63.2%)
(R) TRUMP, Donald J. / PENCE, Michael R. 122,370 29.4% (13,445 25.4%)
(L) JOHNSON, Gary / WELD, Bill 15,008 3.6% ( 2,035 3.8%)
(G) STEIN, Jill / BARAKA, Ajamu 11,957 2.9% (2,389 4.5%)
(C) CASTLE, Darrell L. / BRADLEY, Scott N. 4,229 1.0% (594 1.1%)
Blank Votes: 7,787 1.9% (980 1.9%)
Over Votes: 401 0.1% (594 1.1%)
schrodinger's cat
@NotMax: Well, I guess its good to know that we live on a island of sanity floating in an ocean of BS.
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
I loved Father Goose! Just the opening sequence alone, with Cary all disheveled and unshaven, and the great song playing on the soundtrack, is worth the price of admission.
gogol's wife
@gogol’s wife:
The song is “Pass Me By.”
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
Yes, unfortunately None but the Lonely Heart is bad. It’s sad, because he thought it was his best work.
Major Cary Grant fan here.
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
What young children? You are thinking of some other film. The Awful Truth is probably the funniest film ever made, and it has no young children in it.
ThresherK
@NotMax: Okay, now I’m missing Jim Hutton. I was a precocious kid who really enjoyed that one season of him as Ellery Queen.
NotMax
@gogol’s wife
You are correct. Was mixing it up (without checking) with another Grant/Dunne vehicle, My Favorite Wife.
Fifty lashes with damp celluloid for me. :)
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
Yeah, My Favorite Wife isn’t so good, except for Cary leaning to see her as the elevator door closes, and Randolph Scott by the pool.
NotMax
@ThresherK
Also have fond memories of that series.
Speaking of fondly remembered TV, first season of The Defenders (the E.G. Marshall series) is available on DVD. Not so subtly dropping hints to friends that it would make a nifty holiday gift.
Mnemosyne
@NotMax:
It was between Topper and The Awful Truth, but TAT edged it because it’s more similar to the other two movies in the poll.
Holiday is currently last, which gives me a sad.
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
With you on that. Holiday is a longtime favorite Hepburn vehicle.
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
Have always had problems with His Girl Friday.
Rosalind Russell plays it too arch for my taste, and Ralph Bellamy too dense.
And then there’s the attempted suicide.
Mnemosyne
@NotMax:
I also like it from a censorship perspective because Cukor and the actors are able to get the subtext through loud and clear: Johnny is having the best sex of his life with Julia, but he’s starting to realize that they’re not compatible in any other way. He IS compatible with Linda, but the sex might not be quite as good. So he basically has to choose between his dick and his heart.
I still need to watch the Pre-Code version and compare them.
Steve in the ATL
@Kay:
Oh yeah. Had a big kerfuffle across the river in West Memphis. You may have heard about those poor three guys.
ThresherK (GPad)
@NotMax: CBS Radio Mystery Theater was in-the-dark listening for me as a kid, if I was good. I didn’t know he made movies til I was older.
Plenty of those audio files around Archive.org, too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ThresherK (GPad): I loved that show. I remember seeing EG Marshall in 12 Angry Men and thinking, Hey, it’s him!
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
To each his own. You might like the museum of roman history, which is east of the Tiber along with the colosseum. For me, it tied with the Cluny in Paris as my least favorite museum ever. A couple of people in my family loved them both, however, so as always YMMV.
Steve in the ATL
@Jeffro: also, try to avoid being in Rome when a pope dies. They go freaking NUTS when that happens. We were there when JP II joined the velvet mafia in the sky and within 24 hours could not even get to the west side of the Tiber.