Saturday Morning Open Thread: Strong At the Broken Places


(Joel Pett via

What’s on the agenda for the weekend?

Annie Leibovitz’s latest exhibition, “Women: New Portraits,” has been traveling the globe since it debuted in London early this year. But the latest iteration of the show, which opens in New York City on Friday, has a fresh tweak: A photo of Hillary Clinton hangs in the middle of the exhibit’s central wall of portraits.

“Secretary Clinton was not on this wall until this show,” Leibovitz said during a Tuesday preview of the exhibition co-hosted by famed feminist activist Gloria Steinem, who collaborated with Leibovitz on the project. “It’s the first time I folded her into the sea—into the ocean of women who mean something to us today.”

Leibovitz, who also included some of the photos she shot during the campaign in the show, noted that in the portrait of Clinton, there’s a tile visible on her desk. “I asked my retoucher, ‘Would you please sharpen that tile?’” It says never, never, never give up.”…

Steinem, who helped select some of these subjects, fielded a press question about how she feels about the future of women’s rights in the wake of Donald Trump’s election to the U.S. presidency.

Steinem attributed Trump’s win, in part, to backlash against the progress of women and minorities. “I think that what has been revealed to us is a truth that we must now deal with,” she said. “Never again is anyone going to say ‘post-feminist’ or ‘post-racist’ because we [now] understand that there is something like a third of the country that is still locked into these old hierarchies.”

The activist compared the current state of the U.S. to a survivor of domestic violence. “The moment just before escaping or just after escaping [from a violent household] is the most dangerous time,” she said. “I think we are at a time of maximum danger in this country and we need to look out for each other.”

However, for supporters of women’s and minority rights, there’s value in learning where the country truly stands and how much further it has to go. “Just as we would not tell anyone to go back into a violent household, we would not tell each other to go back,” said Steinem. “And even though it’s a time of danger maybe we are about to be free.”

174 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:

    Was quite the brouhaha among the administration back in high school when someone Magic Markered “Power To The People” across one white stripe of a flag displayed inside the school. So far as the student body was concerned, a collective yawn.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    Morning, Everyone 😐😐😐

  3. 3
    Betty Cracker says:

    I wish I shared Steinem’s optimism. I thought the GOP’s near-treasonous acts of legislative sabotage during the Obama years, plus peanut gallery conservatives’ hysterical reaction to PBO and his family, the Clintons, marriage equality, gun safety proposals, etc., were signs that we were living through that dangerous time before escaping the oppressor. This feels more like the escape failed, TBH.

  4. 4
    rikyrah says:

    Someone on another thread asked about Gilmore Girls on Netflix. All in all, get a free trial, binge watch, then cancel very free trial.

    Also recommending The Crown while you have that free trial.

  5. 5
    raven says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Legend has it that, while preparing Richard Nixon for his historic visit to China in 1972, Henry Kissinger mentioned that Chinese Prime Minister Chou En-Lai was an avid student of French history. During his trip, Nixon met with Chou En-Lai in the walled garden of the Forbidden City. As they walked slowly around the lily ponds, Nixon remembered Kissinger’s comment. To break the ice, he asked Chou what he thought had been the impact of the French revolution on western civilization. Chou En-Lai considered the question for a few moments. Finally, he turned to Nixon and replied, “The impact of the French revolution on western civilization — too early to tell.”

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Morning.

    @Betty Cracker: I hear ya. I thought we were out, but they pulled us back in.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    In happier news, The Librarians are back on TNT.

  8. 8
    Morzer says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Hey, the Dolphins have won six straight. How can this not be the best of all possible worlds.

    If you want one statistic to cheer you up:

    White voters were 69% of the electorate this time around. Down 2% from 4 years ago – exactly as the demographers predicted. Minority majority will happen – and this hideous little period really is the last fart of the white supremacist corpse. We keep fighting like bastards and the neo-Confederate rabble and the Breitbart scum will regret crawling out from under their rock. We are the majority and the future – and Trump and his pathetic coalition of fools, fuckwits and freaks are going to learn that fact much sooner than they think.

  9. 9
    raven says:

    @Morzer: You ask that of a Gator fan on the day of execution?

  10. 10
    Betty Cracker says:

    @raven: Hey man, we’re gonna shock the world! :)

  11. 11
    raven says:

    @Betty Cracker: We’ve got a stupid party @ 6:30. I told the girl I’d go if it was decided my then. We have to get back for the Hokies at 8.

  12. 12
    Zinsky says:

    Walter Mondale once said something to the effect that “each successive president is perceived as the antidote to the one that came before”. So, in some twisted white racist’s barely functioning brain, Donald Trump is the antidote to an intelligent, competent civil black president. In other words Trump is the antithesis of Obama. We can only hope that Trump’s successor will be a competent, non-corrupt, well-read, egalitarian woman.

  13. 13
    raven says:

    @Zinsky: And that it happens in 4 years, I’m too old for this shit.

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @raven: We’ve all aged considerably in the last month.

  15. 15
    raven says:

    @Baud: The election was the day before my 67th.

  16. 16
    Baud says:


    Happy Birthday, raven.

  17. 17
    raven says:

    @Baud: Yea, it was swell. @Baud: At least I had 2 weeks at the beach to look forward to. . .

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @raven: Some present.

    @Baud: Sarcasm much?

  19. 19
    Morzer says:


    Gator fans are the reason God made Gator-aid.

    Happy belated birthday, most venerable corvid!

  20. 20
    raven says:

    @Morzer: Wow, I never heard corvid!

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @raven: I could spend the next four years at the beach.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    gene108 says:


    In happier news, The Librarians are back on TNT.

    In unhappier news, my big (to me) 46″ HD, stopped working properly. Where the area is for standard definition formatting, it is black. The edges that fill out for HD formatting still show a clear picture.

    Debating, whether to call a local TV repair place that got good reviews on the internet or Best Buy.

    But outside of my First World problems, it is good The Librarians are back.

  24. 24
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    I managed to get everything accomplished this past week save getting my tat worked on: DTLA on Monday, car registration on Tuesday, and Capistrano yesterday.

    Ruins of the Great Stone Church at Mission San Juan Capistrano.

    Interior of the Mission Basilica based on the Great Stone Church.

    ETA: The Great Stone Church was destroyed soon after it’s completion by the 1812 earthquake.

  25. 25
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @gene108: You could probably get a 4K TV for the cost of repairing the old one.

  26. 26
  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Why, you never!

  28. 28
    satby says:

    @Baud: Veronica Mars reference? Nice.

    Happy Saturday everyone.

  29. 29
    gene108 says:


    Unless the more likely to vote for Democrats minorities are flooding into West Virginia or Pennsyltucky, it won’t have the impact people imagine.

    California or NYC becoming more populated and diverse does not help in places Democrats need help.

    What would really make a difference to leverage this situation is create a strong national movement to increase representation in the House from the current 435 members to some larger number. This would give proportionately more seats to CA and other more populated states / areas.

    It will be fought tooth and nail by Republicans, but would unskew a bit of the disproportionate representation rural areas receive.

    Edit: 435 was set in 1911, to be effective by 1913 or whenever AZ and NM became states, otherwise they had 433 members.

  30. 30
    satby says:

    @raven: and belated Happy Birthday to you 🍰

  31. 31
  32. 32
    BillinGlendaleCA says:


    but would unskew a bit of the disproportionate representation rural areas receive.

    What do you have against the Common Clay of The New West?

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @gene108: Or support the National Popular vote movement. Then it wouldn’t matter where our voters are.

  34. 34
    germy says:

    The list of buyers’ remorse voters keeps growing.

  35. 35
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @raven: I think I have a pic that was taken about at the same place yesterday(though it’s a IR pic).

    Looks like it’s at a slightly different angle(and IR).

  36. 36
    germy says:

    @Zinsky: Walter Mondale once said something to the effect that “each successive president is perceived as the antidote to the one that came before”.


    My theory with George W. Bush was that every Republican president is meant to make the one before him look like a genius. Still works.

  37. 37
    gene108 says:


    I’ll never know, unless I get an estimate. I am old enough to be irked that a six year old T.V. failed. I am old enough to remember, when appliances lasted a
    long time.

    But I guess cars are more reliable, so maybe it balances out.

  38. 38
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @gene108: Planned obsolescence with electronics makes a bit of sense, since the tech keeps improving at a pretty rapid clip.

  39. 39
    gene108 says:


    I support National Popular Vote for President, though I have not done much in the way of actual get-my-hands-dirty support, but it does not address the issue of rural versus urban representation in the House, which I think is still a drag on our government, where the concerns of a minority of voters dictates what the majority will do.

  40. 40
    Kathleen says:

    @raven: Belated Happy Birthday, raven. I turned 67 about a month before the coup.

    Good Morning, Everyone.
    I plan on doing a short run this morning followed by usual cleaning, going to store, etc. Must complete my sample 10 page script and application for Fringe Festival this weekend. I need to parlay procrastination into a lucrative business. I’m blaming exhaustion. Just “maintaining” my schedule and routine (up early, workout at 5 am, go to work, come home, pay bills, clean, grocery shop, meet with friends) requires massive energy to resist the overwhelming urge to curl up in a ball, suck my thumb, and ingest mass quantities of chocolate chip ice cream. I think I’m OK but then an extreme panic attack arises. The fear of suffering from economic crash, elimination of Social Security and Medicare, mass deportation or incarceration, or nuclear disaster is like white noise in the back of my mind. I only half jokingly posted on Facebook “Anyone know how to roast squirrel on a stick? Asking for a friend”.

    A friend of mine did write this note to her congress people and CNN. I also forwarded to Brown, Chabot and Portman as well as CNN.
    By what authority does a not-yet-inaugurated president, who has not yet taken the oath of office, make deals (Carrier) on behalf of the United States (committing federal dollars as incentives)? By what authority does a not-yet-inaugurated president, who has not yet taken the oath of office, initiate relationships with foreign powers (Pakistan) on behalf of the United States? It is my understanding that the ‘president-elect’ is not the president until he or she takes the oath of office. It’s more than a breach of protocol; it’s a dismissal of the electoral process in this country. Please ask this question: Where is Trump’s authority to act?
    Have whatever kind of day you feel like having!

  41. 41
    gene108 says:


    I think I was born old, with regards to my relationship with electronics, because I do not find much use for all the rapid changes. I am perfectly happy to have older tech that does what I need it to do.

  42. 42
    germy says:


    I think I was born old, with regards to my relationship with electronics, because I do not find much use for all the rapid changes. I am perfectly happy to have older tech that does what I need it to do.

    I’ve worked in places where every other month the manager would walk in and announce “Okay, everybody! We’re completely changing how we do everything!” Complete disruption every other month; retraining, just for the sake of rapid change (and to help the profits of the software companies selling my bosses the latest shit).

    And then my wife and I go on vacations to see people doing things like glass blowing or bread baking the same way their ancestors did, with the same tools.

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Planned obsolescence with electronics makes a bit of sense, since the tech keeps improving at a pretty rapid clip.

    It makes sense if you want to keep the rubes coming back for more completely unnecessary bullshit that they didn’t know they were missing until they saw it on TV.

  44. 44
    Morzer says:


    States like Georgia, Arizona, and, even Texas are seeing Latinos increase as a percentage of their population – and their schools are often majority Latino. Throw in the shrinking white population as a percentage of the electorate and consider how narrowly Trump won this time, even with vote suppression. Yes, our votes are inefficiently distributed – but the tide is running our way. Throw in Trump’s obvious incompetence and laziness and the repellent nature of his associates and I think we might see results sooner than anyone now thinks possible. The key here is not to give up or fight stupidly.

    Interestingly, Trump’s margin in PA just diminished to a mere 49,000:

    Cold comfort now – but if we can find a candidate who is just a touch more appealing and better at campaigning than Clinton, we can get back in the game quicker than people think.

  45. 45
    Morzer says:


    Just wait until they are six months into Trump’s term of office and realize that they are getting nothing but the special Trump smile reserved for suckers, losers and people who buy bridges from random internet persons.

  46. 46
    Phylllis says:

    @raven: Man I hope they beat Clemson like a drum. Dabbo Swinney is one annoying, smug, holier-than-thou moron & I’d love to see him taken down about nineteen notches.

  47. 47
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Those automobiles are just a fad, my ol’ horse and buggy works just fine.

  48. 48
    Steeplejack says:

    Okay, Manchester City and Chelsea teeing it up right now. No. 3 vs. No. 1. Should be a good match.

    Looks like a gray afternoon in Blighty. Big surprise.

  49. 49
    Poopyman says:

    @germy: A) Unknown percentage are purely made up, and B) makes not one fucking iota of difference.

  50. 50
    germy says:

    @Poopyman: Maybe they’ll stay home in 2020.

  51. 51
    bemused says:

    One of my favorite Springsteen songs, Trapped, keeps popping into my head since the election,

    Well, it seems like I’m caught up in your trap again
    And it seems like I’ll be wearing the same old chains
    Good will conquer evil and the truth will set me free
    And I know someday I will find the key
    And I know somewhere I will find the key.

  52. 52

    @Morzer: With Nixon, it took Watergate and having to resign to escape impeachment to produce “Don’t blame me. I voted Democratic” bumper stickers. Trump voters aren’t going to recognize their mistake very easily.

  53. 53
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Heh. Believe it or not, I’ve actually considered getting one for runs into town. It would turn what is now a 2-3 hr ordeal into a less frenetic and far more entertaining all day ordeal.

  54. 54
    Morzer says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I think they will, especially when it becomes clear that the GOP has nothing to offer except pain and loss of benefits to quite a number of Trump voters.

  55. 55
    Dadadadadadada says:

    @germy: These are mostly people whining about how he’s not really going to do the horrible things he promised to do.

  56. 56
    JPL says:

    @raven: The Roswell High QB Willis, committed to the Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech was looking at another Roswell player also, but he’s undecided. They play in the state finals next week against Grayson.

  57. 57
    Botsplainer says:


    Y’know when you go into a federal building and there’s always photos of the president? I’m going to start constantly carrying a sharpie,and every opportunity I get, I’m drawing a dick on them.

  58. 58
    Baud says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: I have a feeling you’ll start to see more “You could’ve had Baud!” bumper stickers over the next few months.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Botsplainer: Seems offensive to dicks.

  61. 61

    @Baud: You could sell those on here!

    @Morzer: You could be right. After I commented, it occurred to me that one difference between Trump and Nixon is that I believe more of Trump’s voters most enthusiastic voters aren’t long time committed Republicans.

  62. 62
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Everybody has heard about the “bees knees” and now we have the “Queens knees”:

    A pair of mummified knees found in a tomb in Egypt’s Valley of the Queens are most likely those of Queen Nefertari, the royal spouse of Pharaoh Ramses II, say archaeologists.

  63. 63
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: It’s beginning to sound that a lot of Trump’s most enthusiastic voters weren’t previously voters.

  64. 64
    HeartlandLiberal says:

    OK, open thread:

    Well, I mentioned last weekend I would be at the Indiana Hoosiers vs. North Carolina game this past Wednesday, I was, took a good friend, and quite a game it was. Indiana jumped to a nine point lead within a couple minutes, and never looked back. Once NC got it down to four, but we immediately ran it back up to 9 – 12. A most convincing win by a #10/13 over a #3/4, I think were the ratings this week. This may be a good year for Indiana basketball. NC coach Williams had obviously sincere things to say about the fan support and the atmosphere in the hall. FWIW, Indiana has the largest (proportionally to available seats) student section in the Big Ten. And they all showed up. And they were loud. I had to use my earplugs for the final ten minutes.

    IU just finished renovation of Assembly Hall, the basketball arena famous from the glory days of Bob Knight. Huge multimillon donation from the family that owns the local mall. They did quite a good job, new south lobby with stairs and escalators, and refinished seats, and at both ends elevated platform for ADA seating, a newly added luxury set of seats up high at south end (although why you would sit there, I am not sure. I had to wonder if the new scoreboard blocked view of the north basket!?). I took advantage of the ADA areas it last night, called my friend assistant manager in the ticket office, he arranged swap for my tickets. I took my neighbor and friend to the game, he can no longer do steep stairs or sit in tight confined rows. So we watched the game from the south end, to the left of the band (which we hear very well, thank you tubas), looking out over the special southern end zone student bleachers. We had to ask the students in front of us to at least stand on the floor, not the bench, so we could see the basket at our end of the floor, since they basically stood the whole game Ah, youth.

    In other sports news, Indiana’s football program, which historically is in the basement of bottom ten teams, yesterday saw the “resignation” of head coach Wilson. Which led me to a round of joy and schadenfreude. When a coach “resigns”, takes the absolute minimum payout of just over half a million, when he last year signed a six year extension, those of us who were inside and still have contacts inside know that certain rotten things in Denmark finally came to a head. Especially when the news reports that the Athletics Director acted after lengthy investigation by a top Indy law firm. I suspect the man’s personal demons were involved, not just issues long rumored of mistreatment of players. He was replaced immediately by defensive coordinator Tom Allen, not interim, elevated immediately to head coach. As a long suffering 20 plus years holder of season tickets (hey, it gets more priority points for seat selection in basketball, right??), I was glad to see this change. It was long overdue.

  65. 65
    OldDave says:


    Where the area is for standard definition formatting, it is black.

    That’s an interesting failure, and I’m struggling to imagine what might cause it. Possibly a ‘picture in picture’ mode has been inadvertently enabled without a source for the inserted second picture?

  66. 66
    greennotGreen says:


    By what authority does a not-yet-inaugurated president, who has not yet taken the oath of office, initiate relationships with foreign powers (Pakistan) on behalf of the United States?

    Yeah, I have that question, too. I believe private citizens are expressly forbidden to conduct foreign policy by the Constitution. Although I’m sure just calling up to say “Hi!” is probably okay…if it’s not the President of the ROC. Oh. Oops!

  67. 67
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Botsplainer: LOL!

  68. 68
    Morzer says:


    Kim Jong-un puts down the phone, rolls his eyes and shakes his head sadly. “Man, I’m gonna miss Obama!”

  69. 69
    greennotGreen says:

    @gene108: Please don’t think I’m doubting your diagnostic skills, but my mother’s otherwise excellent TV has twice shown a weird error that was due to a button being stuck on the remote. The first time it took me forever to discover what was wrong, and the second time it still took half of forever because I couldn’t figure out which button was stuck.

  70. 70
    germy says:

    Hundreds of U.S. military veterans on Friday have been arriving at a protest camp in North Dakota where thousands of activists, braving frigid conditions, are demonstrating against a pipeline project near a Native American reservation.

    Veterans Stand for Standing Rock will spend the day building a barracks at the Oceti Sakowin camp near Cannon Ball and coordinating with protesters who have spent months rallying against plans to route the Dakota Access Pipeline beneath a lake near the Standing Rock Sioux reservation, organizers said.

    Some of the more than 2,100 veterans who signed up on the group’s Facebook page have arrived at the camp, with hundreds more expected over the weekend. The veterans intend to form a human wall in front of police to protect protesters, who say the $3.8 billion pipeline poses a threat to water resources and sacred Native American sites.


  71. 71
    Botsplainer says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, I’m where you are. It all seems to have been for naught, the gains being brittle due to nonviolence.

    Conservatives had no fear during decades of pushing back. They got it back, all of it, via plurality vote applied in a relative handful of counties. In the meantime, that plurality was far larger than it should have been.

    I had a distressing convo yesterday with a young lawyer in the office. He’s primarily glibertarian, and claims not to have voted for Trump, but was brushing off my fears, and believes that trickle down works while having no evidence. He also didn’t vote for Hill, and has internalized every smear for the last 2 decades to the point of not wanting to hear anything that she has accomplished.

    Thanks, MSM.

    I don’t know who deserves the Marat treatment more – Limbaugh, Ron Fournier or Chuck Todd…

  72. 72
    Poopyman says:


    I don’t know who deserves the Marat treatment more – Limbaugh, Ron Fournier or Chuck Todd…

    When the time comes, such distinctions will be irrelevant.

  73. 73
    BillinGlendaleCA says:


    I don’t know who deserves the Marat treatment more – Limbaugh, Ron Fournier or Chuck Todd…

    All of them Katie.

  74. 74
    Botsplainer says:


    During his trip, Nixon met with Chou En-Lai in the walled garden of the Forbidden City.

    Was just in that garden in October. Unforgettably beautiful and peaceful. The story the guide told me was that it incorporates natural features from the entire country so that the Emperor would be constantly reminded of the extent of his responsibility even when in the safety and solitude of his compound.

  75. 75
    Botsplainer says:


    Speaking of hoops, I had a blast at the Louisville-Purdue game. My tix suck, so I’m in the rafters, and there was a delightfully obnoxious and noisy contingent of Purdue students the next section over. They were acting exactly like 19 and 20 year old fans at an away game should act – inappropriate, loud and comically confrontational. I liked them a lot. Nearly had to intercede for them with home fans unaccustomed to that kind of traveling fan.

    Truly fun.

  76. 76
    GregB says:


    From one Tweet: “Cuck-Trump won’t investigate!”

    Well, no one ever said there won’t be some big laughs as the handbag makes its trip to hell.

  77. 77
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Morzer: The tide is running our way in the South and West, but against us in the northern Midwest, which used to be part of the blue wall. Those states may not be getting less ethnically diverse, but progressives are fleeing them and the whites are getting racially radicalized and pissed off with the international liberal order, so they’re trending red.

    I think it’s been happening for a while. I was talking about that here on Election Day, even before the results came in. Unfortunately the northern Midwest problem hit much harder and faster than we expected–I was thinking about it as a long-term danger for the next couple of decades, not something that would whack us that day.

    And the trend in the South is going to take a lot of time. It didn’t rescue us this time. In the meantime, vote suppression and fluctuations in general turnout can do a lot of damage, as we saw.

    A thing I think is interesting, though, is that the whole West… voted pretty much as everyone predicted. There wasn’t a nasty surprise there, and the Democrats seem to be maintaining their slowly increasing strength. Arizona didn’t flip, but it didn’t really look like it was going to flip.

  78. 78
    debbie says:


    I can just about imagine the gold-plated garden Trump’s planning for the White House.

  79. 79
    Baud says:


    Conservatives had no fear during decades of pushing back.

    For the record, I don’t think this is because of nonviolence. I think it’s because (1) they have access to easy money and (2) Dems won’t give up the practice of talking down their own party.

    There’s a reason why “Obama is worse than Bush” is meme.

  80. 80
    debbie says:


    Conservatives also have a long history of assorted resentments. Maybe that’s why the longtime non-voters IOW refers to came out to vote. Clinton was the perfect target for them all to unite against.

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    @debbie: Right. But she also should have been someone enough of us could have rallied around, particularly after Obama’s successful term and with an open Supreme Court vacancy and an even more progressive platform than last time.

    That didn’t happen in sufficient numbers in the swing states. Enough of our potential voters bought into the other side’s world view instead of the Democratic message.

  82. 82
    debbie says:


    It was more about her than about Obama or the Dems. I think she shouldn’t have focused as much as she did on Trump’s deficits. He’s such an easy target, but if she’d hit harder on Dem strengths (workers’ rights, corporate malfeasance, Wall St., etc.), she’d have performed better in the hinterlands.

    ETA: But enough of post-mortems. Laundry awaits!

  83. 83
    Baud says:

    @debbie: It was so close its easy to speculate about minor campaign adjustments that would have swung the election. I still think the main causes were external to us.

    But we would be less vulnerable to external effects if we had a better attitude towards the party IMHO.

  84. 84
    Mandalay says:


    …instead of the Democratic message

    Which was what?…”Stronger Together” vs. “Make America Great Again”?

    We may have won the popular vote but we definitely lost the sound bite.

  85. 85
    qwerty42 says:

    @Morzer: …We keep fighting like bastards and the neo-Confederate rabble and the Breitbart scum will regret crawling out from under their rock. We are the majority and the future – and Trump and his pathetic coalition of fools, fuckwits and freaks are going to learn that fact much sooner than they think.
    Thanks, we do need to remember this. Assuming we get through the craziness …

  86. 86
    Baud says:

    @Mandalay: I don’t know that that means. Stronger Together won the most voters, but not in the swing states.

    But maybe all we need to do is have catchier slogans.

  87. 87
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Did Trump Win Because Swing State Voters Preferred Him On the Economy?

    Anyway, the idea that Clinton was only different economic messaging away from winning is a nice story, but the evidence supporting the theory is notably scant.

  88. 88
    Botsplainer says:


    He’ll rip out the vegetable garden and do ugly concrete statuary of his name-licensed buildings all over.

    “TRUMP” gold plated letters will replace the Rose Garden, and the lawn replaced by astroturf.

    Plus, imagine the trepidation of the White House chef over all that well done beef and KFC…

  89. 89
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Trump voters want that darn wall. He’ll but up six feet of wall and tour around the country touting his major accomplishment.

  90. 90
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: LGM is probably my favorite blog after this one, but I’m not ready to lurk there again. Don’t know why. They’re pretty good people.

  91. 91
    Это курам на смех says:

    @Botsplainer: Please start with my workplace. I will distract the armed guards for you.

    There will be another shitgibbon photo inside my office proper. I intend to tape photos of Mussolini over it but better not get caught.

  92. 92
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Betty Cracker: More like one’s crazy Uncle got fired from his job for harassment, so he has to move in or be homeless, because REAL Americans don’t believe in savings and he is inept to be employable and now spends all his time watching Fox and complaining how your doing it all wrong.

  93. 93
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Talking to my father and out a fun fact about that Conway deal Trump is so proud about – apparently these Conway assemblers get paid like thirty dollars an hour, Boeing or something wanted to hire them and couldn’t find any of them with any job skills. So if this is true sounds perfectly Rust Belt – 30 and hour to be a warm body and awake for eight hours a day so Dad’s job handed to them on a platter. My dad, who’s a retired union guy and would die before voting for a Republican, said that’s BS and even he can see why Conway wants to move.

  94. 94
    Botsplainer says:


    But there’s nothing to stop the NY AG.

    Save for the federal investigations of the NY AG and members of the California Tax Board.

    Assume zero normality.

    Money is high on Mark Cuban, any aspirational Democrat, crusading journalists being targets of investigations, hacking and slander.

  95. 95
    Это курам на смех says:

    @germy: About that “Trumpgrets” site — most of the people there are upset that he isn’t pushing hard enough to Lock Her Up or to Build the Wall. Stifled vitriolic hate is not regret.

  96. 96
    Immanentize says:

    I was reading the dead tree version of the NYTimes this morning and therein is an Op Ed supporting recently retired general Mattis for Sec. of Def. It is really insulting to Trump and not nice to Gen. Flynn. But the part I did not know is that there is as law preventing any military officer from serving as Secretary unless they have been out of the military for seven years. The author thinks Congress should waive the law for Mattis….

    Just one more erosion of the rule of law in Trumpland. Which will be next? Habeas Corpus, right to counsel, equal protection, free speech? Ah so many choices.

  97. 97
  98. 98
    Botsplainer says:


    Back earlier in the year during the campaign, Flynn was tweeting for someone to send him China information. Surprised the shit out of me – total bush league for an alleged intelligence professional.

    One other thing – when Trum gets the ability to send every phone in the country an unblocked 90 character alert text on Jan 21, does anybody think he won’t misuse it within about 72 hours of getting it? It will be a firehose of stupid.

    Still awaiting Trump info from Assange….

  99. 99
    Botsplainer says:

    Here’s a thought – Galapagos travel shovels a ton of money into the Ecuadorian economy. A majority of those travelers to that location tend toward liberal social and economic views.

    Their houseguest has crushed liberal hopes in the US, maybe for a generation. He’s now working to hurt the last bastion of liberalism in Western Europe (Merkel). It may be too late, but perhaps a boycott of Galapagos travel until they turn Assange out is in order.

  100. 100
    germy says:

    @Это курам на смех: They’re disappointed. Good enough for me.

  101. 101
    germy says:

    @Botsplainer: Did you see last week, Mark Cuban was photographed having lunch with Bannon?

  102. 102
    ruemara says:

    @Morzer: stop it with the appealing & campaigning bullshit. Stop Pollyanna-ing demographic shift. It wasn’t appeal, it was suppression. It was failure to understand that having republicans holding local seats meant failure to have dem votes counted. Until progressive liberals actually can retain that fact in their little heads and put some work into it, you’re going to keep helping us into losing more elections. Charisma isn’t the solution because Hillary won the damned popular vote. But voters were blocked in key states and that is all it took.

  103. 103
    gogol's wife says:


    right after the election, I went to see what Cuban had to say, and he was already pivoting to Trump. He’s worthless.

  104. 104
    germy says:

    @gogol’s wife: For some reason we fell into the habit of watching Shark Tank.

    I read last week that “Mr. Wonderful O’Leary” was inspired by our election results to try something similar in Canada.

  105. 105
    germy says:

    @ruemara: You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head.

  106. 106
    germy says:

    RIP Andrew Sachs, AKA Manuel from Fawlty Towers

    He lost his battle with dementia. One of the greatest characters from one of my favorite shows.

  107. 107
    laura says:

    @rikyrah: I kept seeing your posts on The Crown. Reactivated my old account. Binged on The Crown in three sessions. Jonesing for MOAR The Crown.
    Thank you Rikyrah.

  108. 108
    Jeffro says:

    @gene108: Un-gerrymandering the states would help a great deal, too. That might be a bit easier than increasing the number of Reps overall.

  109. 109
    HRA says:


    DT, Bannon and Mark Cuban belong to the same “fraternity”.

  110. 110
  111. 111
    Jeffro says:

    Btw NoVA folks, Lt Gov Ralph Northam is starting to hold fundraisers around the state, with quite a few in our area. I couldn’t make it to the McLean one today but I sent him a big chunk of change via his website.

    If anyone’s going to one in the near future, gimme a shout and I’ll see you there! KEEP VA BLUE IN 2017!

  112. 112
    germy says:

    Kirk Douglas turns 100 in a few days.

    So there’s that.

  113. 113
    Another Scott says:

    @Jeffro: Thanks for your efforts. It’s probably going to be January before I’m back in the political donation mode – end-of-the-year charity stuff has to come first.

    Speaking of which, everyone who buys stuff at Amazon should be using Smile so that Bezos kicks in 0.5% to your selected charity. (Dunno if Cole’s link can work with it too.)

    But, yeah, Northam must win to keep VA from turning into East Brownbackistan… :-(


  114. 114
    The Lodger says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Conway? I thought it was Carrier. (Of course, if we’re talking Kellyanne then fark yeah, ship her to Mexico.)

  115. 115
    Baud says:

    @gogol’s wife: I didn’t expect him to be loyal to anyone but his business, but he was on the right side of morality in this election. Too many others were not.

  116. 116
    jeffreyw says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: And that buggy whip still has some use in these perilous times.

  117. 117
    jeffreyw says:

    @Steeplejack: Yo, Steep – get that S2 going?

  118. 118
    Baud says:

    @jeffreyw: If you’re into that sort of thing.

  119. 119
    ruemara says:

    @germy: I’m at the point of wanting to smash supposed liberals in the head. No matter what facts are out regarding what happened this election THAT JUST OCCURRED, people are back to comforting fallacies.

  120. 120
    Jeffro says:

    @Another Scott:

    It’s probably going to be January before I’m back in the political donation mode – end-of-the-year charity stuff has to come first.

    Totally understandable! You probably already have your faves, but if you’re looking for some additional worthy causes, check out Alternative House and the Main Street Child Development Center. Great, vital local institutions!

  121. 121
    Miss Bianca says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: you mean, other than the fact that they’re morons?

  122. 122
    The Pale Scot says:

    Just in Time For the Holidays

    ‘Arbeit Macht Frei’ Gate Thought to Be Stolen From Dachau Is Found

    Can be used as a prop for SmallFinger’s Coronation

  123. 123
    Miss Bianca says:

    @ruemara: I’m glad you said this so I didn’t have to.

  124. 124
    jeffreyw says:

    @Baud: You dirty old man. Come sit next to me.

  125. 125
    Brachiator says:


    Kirk Douglas turns 100 in a few days.

    So there’s that.

    Wow. I had no idea he has been with us for so long. Always one of my favorite actors. I remember not to long ago seeing his film debut in “The Strange Love of Martha Ivers.” He played a very weak, insecure man. I could not forget all his later roles, and kept thinking that his character could take the male star of the film, Van Heflin, and snap him in two like a stick.

    He did hold his own in his scenes with the main star of the film, Barbara Stanwyck.

  126. 126
    Jim Foolish Literalist says:

    I don’t know NYC, but I’m thinking Park Ave to Grand Central, there were some people who just watched this happen

    A Muslim woman was attacked and harassed by three men who called her a terrorist and repeatedly shouted “Donald Trump!” at her on the subway yesterday.
    Police say the incident happened around 10 p.m. on Wednesday, when the 18-year-old victim was waiting for a northbound 6 train at the 23rd Street and Park Avenue station. Three men, believed to be around 21 years old, approached her and started screaming Trump’s name at her.

  127. 127
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Jim Foolish Literalist: “bias crime”? Is that what the cool kids are calling “hate crimes” these days?

  128. 128
    Another Scott says:

    @Jim Foolish Literalist: I believe LAO mentioned recently that this happened at her subway stop.


    I hope DeBlasio gets the word out that this stuff will not be tolerated, and makes sure the police follow-up on it.


  129. 129
    aimai says:

    Elizabeth Warren came and spoke to my daughter’s (very small) high school yesterday. It was inspirational–she literally ran in, pumped up and full of energy, and ran out, full tilt, at the end of her talk. The audience, teachers and students, were in tears when she had finished, and she herself choked up talking about the challenges ahead. But they were totally moved and inspired by her and people who, by my daughter’s report, had been basically comatose with grief since the election were fired up and ready to go fight some more. I am so grateful that she came and did what I could not for my daughter. I am sending her some more money–making it a monthly contribution–and gearing up to figure out how to link up with others ahead of the midterm. As usual, in our state, its not a big deal but I would love someone to start a massive “Hillary’s voters get their revenge at the midterm” movement.

  130. 130
    Brachiator says:


    Someone mentioned earlier in the year that the California tax board might go after him, too.

    The Franchise Tax Board? Apart from a golf course in Rancho Palos Verdes, Trump doesn’t have much in Southern California investments. I don’t know about Northern California, but I have never seen anything about substantial holding there either. Despite a lot of typical Trump bloviating, he has been spectacularly unsuccessful here. He couldn’t even keep a contract with some Indian c@sinos, and made much less than he should have from the deal.

  131. 131
    gogol's wife says:

    I know everyone here has canceled their subscriptions to the NYT, but they had interesting pictures of post-election Hillary getting selfies taken without makeup. She looks so much better without makeup, so beautiful.

    I have to snap out of my constant fantasy that we’re on here snarking about Hillary’s cabinet picks being a tad too neoliberal, instead of coming here to find out the latest stomach-churning outrage by Trump.

  132. 132
    Applejinx says:


    Which was what?…”Stronger Together” vs. “Make America Great Again”?

    “America is already great”.

    Works on stockbrokers. Clearly we need more of them?

  133. 133
    lurker dean says:

    this is a few days old so may have been posted already, chait takedown of brooks:

    “If Obama offered a deal to raise taxes through tax reform while reducing entitlements, Brooks would write a sad column about how nobody was willing to raise taxes through tax reform while reducing entitlements. If Obama favored education reform, an infrastructure bank, and more high-skill immigration, Brooks would write a sad column about how nobody favored those things. When Obama supported market-oriented health-care reform, Brooks opposed it as an extravagant government takeover. Then later he wrote a sad column about how “we’d have had a very different debate if we knew the law was going to be a discrete government effort to subsidize health care for more poor people” rather than “an extravagant government grab to take over the nation’s health-care system.”

  134. 134
    raven says:

    @gogol’s wife: I haven’t. I watch football too.

  135. 135
    Kathleen says:

    @greennotGreen: Imagine if PBO or Hillary pulled that. Sigh.

  136. 136
    J R in WV says:


    That gilded altar reminds me of the many medieval cathedrals we toured on our AIA-sponsored trip to Spain and France. Most of those cathedrals were filled with “private” family altars, all very similar, all stolen silver and gold from Latin America mines filled with slaves.

    Some family chapels were locked up with big iron gates, probably some still alive. We saw one of the tombs of El Cid. There are three total.

    Hard for me to feel much holy spirit thinking about how those cathedrals were funded. Not that I feel much holy spirit in a holy building anyways. More in a National Park, actually.

  137. 137
    trollhattan says:

    Wow, what a great opportunity for those kids. Good for the senator to rev up the next generation–mine can’t wait ’til 2020 to vote to fire der Führer with her first vote.

    Dadbrag: kid’s high school graduates now include the incoming CA SoS, chief justice of the CA Supreme Court and one USSC justice. Not bad for a dumpy urban HS.

  138. 138
    J R in WV says:


    Dude, those aren’t swallows! They aren’t even crows or ravens… they’re pigeons!! Yuck.

  139. 139
    lurker dean says:

    i can never get links to work properly..

  140. 140
    Kathleen says:

    @ruemara: The words Progressive and Liberal are anathema to me. And what you said in previous comment.

  141. 141
    J R in WV says:


    We (WVU) went to a GatorBowl VS Clemson once, and they (the Clemson team AND fans) were rude and class-free. We lost, and they gloated. That was then and since then we have beaten them 70-33 in the Orange Bowl, setting 8 records. It was really worse than that, they scored a coupe of times in the 4th quarter playing against the 3rd string.

    Sweet. Good luck. Clemson is one of those teams I always root against.

  142. 142
    The Lodger says:

    @greennotGreen: Does anyone know if this little conversation has been covered in Chinese mass media? Not that TPTB in Beijing care, but the Chinese relationship could get a lot worse for Trump if an additional 1.5 billion people are angry in addition to the leadership.

  143. 143
    Brachiator says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    I have to snap out of my constant fantasy that we’re on here snarking about Hillary’s cabinet picks being a tad too neoliberal, instead of coming here to find out the latest stomach-churning outrage by Trump.

    I am almost enjoying how posters who thought that Hillary was a faux liberal war hawk are now upset that Trump may be ignorantly undoing Henry Kissinger’s realpolitik triumph in our relationship with China. There’s a lot of irony points in this.

  144. 144
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @aimai: I was surprised to see that Warren has endorsed Scott Brown as VA secretary, not in a ZOMG! We’ve been betraaaaayed! way, I am just unaware of anything in Brown’s record that suggests he is up to what I understand to be a pretty tough administrative job.

  145. 145
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’re in a world where the alternatives are always worse.

    Still, don’t know why she had to say anything.

  146. 146
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: there are certainly worse alternatives– I personally think the Palin rumor was a troll, maybe one aimed at John McCain as much as anyone, and it looks like she was given to understand that she wasn’t actually being considered for that or any job in the Trump administration. They must have used big, block capital neon letters, cause she got the message.

    Sarah Palin Slams Donald Trump’s Carrier Deal as ‘Crony Capitalism’
    “Republicans oppose this sinfully stupid practice, remember?” she reminded the president-elect.

  147. 147
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    it looks like she was given to understand that she wasn’t actually being considered for that or any job in the Trump administration

    Mark this down as the most presidential decision Trump will ever make.

  148. 148
    RaflW says:

    I’ll want to dig into this in the days ahead (I need to run to get supplies for my birthday party this evening!!). But: Tom Levenson over on Twitter was just posting about a short convo he had with David Gergen in which the possible parallels with 1933 Germany came up.

    What I am looking for, and interested in unpacking, is ways in which we are similar and different now than then. My partner read something recently about the much greater homogeneity of Germany in that era than the US is now. Certainly Germany didn’t have something equivalent to the US Latino community. (Just as one quick example) New Mexico is 48% Latino. Of course, some of them are conservatives and even Republicans. But Trump’s anti-Mexican rants targeted a huge population base.

    More worrying is that Jews made up around 0.7 to 0.9% of Germans, vs around 0.9 or 1% of the US being Muslim. And of course the gays were in a bit of a heyday early in Weimar Germany and (except for Trans folk) we’ve been doing pretty well in the US in the past 10-20 years. I think we’re on somewhat better ground than then, when gay liberties were based on non-enforcement of anti-gay laws. But the Congress just passed a bill that would have stripped workplace protections in defence contracting (it got removed due to Obama veto threat, but that goes away very soon).

    Anyway, sort of placing a marker here and hope to return to the topic of how greater US diversity now may play an important bulwarking role in resistance to nationalism and fascistic tendencies. Happy Saturday and sorry to post and run, but party people arrive in 5 1/5 hours!!

  149. 149
    EBT says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: That said, you could still get a couple hundred out of the old one selling it as a parts box.

  150. 150
    Baud says:

    @RaflW: Happy birthday!

  151. 151
    Poopyman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why does Warren hate the (ex-)troops?

  152. 152
    liberal says:

    @RaflW: I could be mistaken but I thought that not that long before Jews were a much higher percentage.

  153. 153
    burnspbesq says:

    Awesome. I hope the Crazies give the Black Bears a warm welcome when they come out to warm up.

  154. 154
    Juju says:

    @ruemara: I agree with you in all those things you mentioned, but people seem to forget the bs move that Comey pulled. In my family we call Trump Comey’s president Trump. That was probably the biggest reason Clinton lost. The poll numbers dropped for Clinton and the issue seemed to have motivated people who otherwise would not have voted to get out and vote for Trump.

  155. 155
    tybee says:

    @J R in WV:

    Clemson is one of those teams I always root against

    my late father-in-law, a georgia grad and and enthusiastic supporter of the bulldogs football team, always despised clemson.
    when we planted okra one year at his farm, he noted the variety of okra was “Clemson Spineless” and he remarked “Of course it’s spineless, it’s from Clemson”.

    everytime i plant okra, i think of him and clemson. :)

    he also despised vince dooley but that’s a story for a different day…

  156. 156
    debbie says:


    I thought you were right, but no:

    According to the census of June 1933, the Jewish population of Germany consisted of about 500,000 people. Jews represented less than one percent of the total German population of about 67 million people.

  157. 157
    Another Scott says:

    @The Lodger: There are a few stories about it at the SCMP – I dunno how representative that is. There’s at least one story on it in the English version of the People’s Daily.

    (I haven’t read the stories – I’m just passing along the info. HTH!)


  158. 158
    Felanius Kootea says:

    I’m reading Trevor Noah’s memoir, Born a Crime. It opens with this: “The genius of apartheid was convincing people who were the overwhelming majority to turn on each other…” Makes me think about the aftermath of this election, in which a majority of people voted for the sane candidate, and now some in that majority are torn, trying to figure out what part of a potentially (and previously) winning coalition to discard in order to gain the votes of those who love to hate more than they love anything. And that majority seemingly has amnesia about Russian interference in the election, Comey’s actions against Clinton, misogyny and the impact of voter suppression, which probably means none of these issues will be tackled. I don’t even see anyone pointing out nationally that Democratic governors should all take a page from Oregon and make voter registration opt-out rather than opt-in (almost 50% of those who were registered automatically and hadn’t been before voted) and make a national case for why voting should be more, not less representative. Would be nice to play offense rather than defense on that issue.

  159. 159
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kathleen: I’m not ceding those words to the Jill Stein brigade or Bernie Dead-enders. They can be the “alt-left.” I consider myself a liberal, a progressive and a Democrat.

  160. 160

    We really do need a more modern voting system. Having people stand, sometimes outdoors for hours to cast a vote is primitive. Having people being chased down to register is primative. Automatic registration, votes by mail and an extended voting period is the way to go. Even without intent, we disenfanchise a lot of people who move around, have shifts at night, and who cannot get Election Day off.

  161. 161

    @Betty Cracker: The Republicans made the word ‘liberal’ mean ‘stupid commie hippie’ and the stupid commie hippies ran with it. Then we took up the word progressive and the stupid commie hippies took it too. I just call myself a liberal

    Which to me means a synthesis of Enlightenment liberalism, secular humanism, and American utilitarianism. ‘Liberal’ is shorter.

  162. 162
    Citizen_X says:

    @Felanius Kootea: Agreed, but to do something about voter suppression we need to control more state houses and governor’s mansions. We need to make that a priority for 2018.

  163. 163
    liberal says:

    @debbie: I’m talking earlier than 1933.

  164. 164
    mike in dc says:

    Holy crap, my government contracts professor is on MSNBC talking about Trump’s conflicts of interest.

  165. 165
    Mark K says:

    Let me join in the Go Gators cheers. 3rd generation Gator and also too old for this shit as I hit 62 next month. Went to Crystal River to swim with the manatees Thursday to try and renew my soul a little bit. Nobody loves Florida more than me but I feel that if not for my kids, I’d move to California where at least the majority has a brain.

  166. 166
    Mnemosyne says:


    This. It is NOT A COINCIDENCE that Hillary lost in states that have voter ID laws. The laws were designed for that purpose.

    Pennsylvania’s voter ID law was not supposed to be in effect because a judge had stopped it, but poll workers were demanding ID anyway.

  167. 167
    RaflW says:

    @Baud: Thanks! Actual birthday is Pearl Harbor day, but the party is tonight. (The B.F.’s B-day is 9-11, so we’re quite the couple).

  168. 168
    Morzer says:


    Clinton was the wrong candidate for this election and did not help matters by running a somewhat incompetent campaign. The Democratic party has paid a bitter price for failing to renew itself at every level of politics and Clinton is just the highest profile example of the trend.

  169. 169
    Emma says:

    @Morzer: Keep going. Keep blaming the woman. Keep it up.

  170. 170
    NR says:

    @Emma: Oh, quit your bullshit. Morzer’s criticism had nothing to do with Clinton being a woman and you damn well know it.

  171. 171
    NR says:


    people are back to comforting fallacies.

    You mean “comforting fallacies” like it was all the fault of voter suppression, or racism, or the Russians, or Bernie Sanders, that get pushed here all the time? Fallacies like that are very comforting because it means you don’t have to take a look at yourselves and admit the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you were wrong for the last several years. No, nothing that happened was your fault, or the fault of the party leadership that you continue to support.

    You’re right, those fallacies must be very comforting.

  172. 172
    Jim Foolish Literalist says:

    @NR: and you’ve worked so hard to show us the Way through your poo-flinging, whining and obnoxious trolling.

  173. 173
    Cassandra says:

    @Juju: They didn’t just drop, they thudded.

  174. 174
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Betty Cracker: “alt-left”. Heh. I like that one. Well…”like” is a relative term. Let’s just say I find it both appropriate and grimly humorous.

Comments are closed.