Mouth of Shit-Gibbon

mouth-sauron-2It’s minor in the scheme of things, but among my many regrets about the outcome of the recent election is the prospect of being exposed to Kellyanne Conway for the duration of the shit-gibbon administration.

I get that people must sometimes do unsavory things for money. I’m not particularly proud of my stint years ago as a PR flack for an insurance company, where I toiled in the service of evil while telling myself that didn’t make me a bad person.

But for Conway, it’s not just a job. She, like her boss, is an awful person. Here’s Conway on “Morning Joe,” where she appeared to spin the shit-gibbon’s decision (not his to make) not to pursue Hillary Clinton on charges related to her (non-criminal, as per an exhaustive investigation) handling of emails into an act of generosity:

“I think when the President-elect, who’s also the head of your party, tells you before he’s even inaugurated that he doesn’t wish to pursue these charges, it sends a very strong message, tone, and content” to fellow Republicans, Conway said in an interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

Conway said Clinton “still has to face the fact that a majority of Americans don’t find her to be honest or trustworthy,” but added that “if Donald Trump can help her heal, then perhaps that’s a good thing to do.”

God, what an arrogant, vindictive, malicious asshole that woman is. It’s not like Clinton is out there calling for an audit of the vote, even though she’s on track to win the popular vote by an unprecedented two million and there were irregularities aplenty that by rights SHOULD result in an investigation and a lot more controversy than there currently is, IMO.

No, we’re on track to inaugurate Conway’s embarrassing buffoon of a boss to a role for which he is manifestly unqualified, and the popular vote winner not only conceded graciously, she’s kept a low profile since. But that’s not enough to satisfy Conway’s spite; she has to twist the knife.

Anyway, not looking forward to seeing Conway play Mouth of Sauron for the next four years. Since Trump is busily filling his cabinet with the dregs of society, Conway likely won’t even crack the top 10 list of worst people in the shit-gibbon orbit, what with all the neo-Nazi pals, gropers, racists, etc. But she sure is a malignant turd.

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that this is Trump’s “Nazi Frog Moment.” Remember Bill Clinton’s so-called “Sistah Souljah” moment, when he denounced a controversial black entertainer to solidify wavering support among whites? Well, the shit-gibbon’s reversal on “lock her up!” isn’t going down well with the usual suspects, including the editors at neo-Nazi hub Breitbart, which is Trump’s chief strategist’s baby.

Now, not only does the shit-gibbon not have to further alienate half the country and make a fool of himself by urging his DOJ to fruitlessly prosecute an innocent person, Conway gets to simper and gloat about Clinton, and there’s a chance the more gullible among us will see it as a magnanimous deed that conveniently leaves a “cloud” over the person who actually won the most votes. Win-win if you’re a narcissist surrounded by vipers.






259 replies
  1. 1
    Kryptik says:

    Maggie Haberman’s livetweeting of Trump’s NYT meeting is absolutely flabberghasting. Just…you can feel the two-facedness secondhand

  2. 2
    cokane says:

    Press secretaries dont last long though. Only so much bald faced lying even the worst of humans can manage, it seems

  3. 3
    Lee Hartmann says:

    In this country, it used to be that the President didn’t decide prosecutions – that was left up to the DOJ.

  4. 4
    Yutsano says:

    She conceded way too fast, especially with the slow counts in Michigan and Minnesota.

  5. 5
  6. 6
    GrandJury says:

    I don’t think you have to worry about seeing most of these people for 4 years. If (a very big if) Dr. Orange is not impeached within the first couple years, my guess is that there is going to be a revolving door with all the turmoil and controversy and scandals.

    Maybe professional fluffers like Priebus will have staying power but not many others. Priebus is just a parrot anyways.

  7. 7
    aimai says:

    @GrandJury: He is not going to be impeached. The Republicans will never do it because it would piss off his voters and his voters are all they have left.

  8. 8
    quakerinabasement says:

    “…Mouth of Sauron…”

    Bwah!

  9. 9
    low-tech cyclist says:

    I suppose it’s better than Trump using the Justice Department as a tool for a continued vendetta against Hillary, but it says “All that stuff I said? Didn’t mean a word of it. And all those great manufacturing jobs that I said would be coming back? Didn’t mean that either. And on top of that, remember that overtime pay that Obama got you? Kiss it goodbye, and say hello to right-to-work.”

    I wish I could feel some glee that the white working class that voted so overwhelmingly for Trump will probably be screwed harder than anyone else. But I don’t. I’d like them to have better lives and prospects than they do, and that’s a good part of why I vote Dem. As one of those ‘coastal elites’ (as they would surely see me), I’ll do fine. But I hate to see things suck for so many other people, and that’s what’s coming.

  10. 10
    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones) says:

    @aimai: I think they’re afraid of some of his voters – but I can’t remember who/what I was reading that would support that thought.

  11. 11
    Elizabelle says:

    Life is too short to spend another moment of it listening to Kellyanne Conway.

    @Yutsano: I agree.

    Does anyone hear anything about the DOJ/Obama admin looking into the accuracy of the vote? The prospect of hacking and voter suppression is too great. I’d rather see an uproar now than inaugurate the guy who actually lost the Electoral College too.

    Not ready to make nice. Ever.

  12. 12
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    a spiteful and nasty little person, an almost perfect product of the talk radio/cable jabber shows of the Clenis hunt– you younglings who complain about Tweety and Morning Joseph, let Uncle Foolish tell you the tale of MSNBC in the late nineties, when Geraldo Rivera had seemingly limitless hours to interview a two headed creature named Joe-DiGenova-and-Victoria-Toensing, to say nothing of Jonah Goldberg, his dam Lucianne, Susan Carpenter MacMillan….

    I just remember that moment when the fatuous little toad Chuck Todd stopped debate coverage to reassure FlyoverLand that he knew Kellyanne Conway was, as he put it in his most simpering tone, “a good person”, never mind your silly little heads, that will never read an invitation to one of Sally Quinn’s intimate buffets for 150 of anyone who’s anyone, all worried about her helping a racist demagogue shred every norm of our civil and political society.

  13. 13

    @low-tech cyclist:

    the white working class that voted so overwhelmingly for Trump will probably be screwed harder than anyone else.

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

  14. 14
    cope says:

    This whole administration is going to be a four-year parade of foul, loathsome, despicable, rotten cockwombles who will make Rahm Emanuel look like Mohandas Ghandi. I really don’t know how I am going to get through it all…

  15. 15
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    Much though it was be a gross miscarriage of justice to prosecute Hillary Clinton, having made the claims, it’s an even more gross miscarriage to fail to simply state that she is *innocent* – and to fail to confess that, yeah, they were lying liars who lied unethically.

    And saying that the Democrats talked violations of criminal law because of Iran Contra doesn’t mean “both sides do it” – in Iran Contra, it was clear that laws had been broken by particular actors. Here, it was equally clear that there were no crimes committed.

  16. 16
    Waldo says:

    @aimai:

    He is not going to be impeached. The Republicans will never do it because it would piss off his voters and his voters are all they have left.

    Yep. Hence WASF.

  17. 17
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    That line about “helping her heal” really gut-punched me. What a pompous, patronizing POS Kellyanne is.

    I don’t believe she’s going to be Press Secretary, though. I read something a week or so ago that she wanted to live in (wherever she lives) with her family and serve the Administration in some telecommuting-type way. Of course these people lie as easily as they breathe, so there may be no truth to her version.

    On the other hand, who else is there? Katrina Pierson? Corey Lewandowski? Boris Epshteyn? Hugh Hewitt? Honestly, every name I can think of is worse than all the others.

  18. 18
    LAO says:

    OT question for all you dog people — my now 8 month old puppy gets extremely car sick, vomiting not anxiety. A co-worker suggested ginger, ie. ginger snaps before the ride. Of course, I have already picked up medication from her vet but its super expensive and would love an alternative. Any suggestions? Criticism?

  19. 19
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @aimai:

    He is not going to be impeached. The Republicans will never do it because it would piss off his voters and his voters are all they have left.

    Truth. It really is Trump’s party now, and they’re not going to cross his fanboys, no matter what he does, unless his fanboys turn on him first.

  20. 20
    Brachiator says:

    Making Plans for Nigel
    One of Donald’s latest tweets, according to the BBC

    President-elect Donald Trump has said UKIP leader Nigel Farage would make a good British ambassador to the US.

    Mr Trump said “many people” would like to see Mr Farage as ambassador and he would do a “great job”.

    We’re only making plans for Nigel
    We only want what’s best for him
    We’re only making plans for Nigel
    Nigel just needs this helping hand

  21. 21
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That line about “helping her heal” really gut-punched me. What a pompous, patronizing POS Kellyanne is.

    I saw a clip of her on Fox, and they were, for some reason, snarking about HRC having failed the bar on her first try, and Conway in a fifty-year-old mean-girl sneer, said, “I passed in on my first try in four different states.” it was so pathetic, so childish.

  22. 22
    Shalimar says:

    @aimai: And it would set a bad precedent if Republicans ever admitted that one of their presidents did something bad enough to be impeached over.
    People: He nuked New Orleans!!!!
    Republicans: It has always been dirty. Are you sure? The President of the United States would never do something like that.

  23. 23
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I hate it when he does something that makes me smile

    Maggie Habermas ‏@ maggieNYT 10m10 minutes ago
    Of Ayotte, Trump says, “No, thank you.”

  24. 24

    @Shalimar: Salt Lake City has always been made of glass. The President would never do something like nuke the capital of a state with rogue electors.

  25. 25
    Brachiator says:

    It’s minor in the scheme of things, but among my many regrets about the outcome of the recent election is the prospect of being exposed to Kellyanne Conway for the duration of the shit-gibbon administration.

    I think that various media have noted that Conway was the first woman to successfully run a presidential campaign.

    Now, that’s one muthafucking ironic glass ceiling broken. And she is turning out to be one hell of a Minister of Propaganda.

  26. 26
    Doug R says:

    You know if Hair Furher actually wanted to govern and stick with Republicans, he could appoint Scwartzeneggar to head the EPA or Interior. Not hopeful though.

  27. 27
    hovercraft says:

    @GrandJury:

    Orange is not impeached within the first couple years

    The only way the Shitgibbon would be impeached is if there was an incident involving a dead under aged boy, and honestly I’m not sure that even them these spineless worms would be “brave” enough to impeach it. There are virtually no principled republicans left. Their base has completely taken over the GOP, the TEA party began as an insurgency, it has now consumed it. Media and off the record lamentations count for nothing, stand up for what you believe in, take the heat/loss, if you just acquiesce, you are even worse than those who are true believers.
    Democrats who go along and or participate, must be punished for giving any of it’s actions the appearance f legitimacy, mindless obstruction is wrong, but we can already see that every action this “administration” takes will be about selling the country out, no democrat should participate in that.

  28. 28
    bemused says:

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    Robert Reich did on his FB page maybe just a few weeks ago. He talked with a former (?) Rep he knows well who said he and other current Reps are afraid of their Trumphead constituents, feel they could be in physical danger.

  29. 29
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Does anyone hear anything about the DOJ/Obama admin looking into the accuracy of the vote? The prospect of hacking and voter suppression is too great. I’d rather see an uproar now than inaugurate the guy who actually lost the Electoral College too.

    The way you phrase it, I would too, of course. But it would be considerably more than an “uproar,” and would last considerably longer than “now.”

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:

    Because I don’t trust these assholes, I’m assuming that this is just cover for when Jefferson Beauregard Sessions has the FBI arrest Hillary — after all, the president doesn’t dictate prosecutions, so it’s not Donald’s fault! The law is the law, amirite?

  31. 31
    LAO says:

    @Doug R:

    If [ ] actually wanted to govern

    I needed a good laugh today, thanks. The desire not to govern is a Republican feature not a bug — unless it’s limited to woman’s autonomy.

  32. 32
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @bemused:

    Robert Reich did

    Glimpsed this much of your comment out of the corner of my eye and was convinced, for a split-second, that Robert Reich had died.

  33. 33
    Brachiator says:

    @Major Major Major Major: RE: the white working class that voted so overwhelmingly for Trump will probably be screwed harder than anyone else.

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    This is not demonstrated in the exit poll results?

  34. 34
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    ???

    My factual statement that you quoted was that the white working class voted overwhelmingly for Trump. According to exit polling, white men without a college degree voted for Trump by 72-23, and white women without a college degree voted for Trump by 62-34. I’d call that ‘overwhelmingly’, but to each his own.

  35. 35
    The Moar You Know says:

    my now 8 month old puppy gets extremely car sick, vomiting not anxiety. A co-worker suggested ginger, ie. ginger snaps before the ride. Of course, I have already picked up medication from her vet but its super expensive and would love an alternative. Any suggestions? Criticism?

    @LAO: Skip the ginger. Some dogs just suffer a great deal from this and yours may be one of them, but try the meds and see how it works. Quite a few pooches eventually get over it. We’ve always jammed ours in the car from the first day we’ve gotten them, which seems effective as we’ve never had a carsick dog.

  36. 36
    Jeffro says:

    Speaking of the “mouth of shit-gibbon”…or rather, “the shit that comes out of the mouth of a Donald-enabling gibbon” here’s Brooksie in fine form today:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about the best imaginable Trump voter. This is the Trump supporter who wasn’t motivated by racism or bigotry. This is the one who cringed every time Donald Trump did something cruel, vulgar or misogynistic.

    But this voter needed somebody to change the systems that are failing her. She needed somebody to change the public school system that serves the suburban children of professors, journalists and lawyers but has left her kids under-skilled and underpaid. She needed some way to protect herself from the tech executives who give exciting speeches about disruption but don’t know anything about the people actually being disrupted.

    …Brooksie, you have got to be fucking kidding me…public schools serve the suburban children of professors but leave HER kids under-skilled and underpaid? How would that work, exactly? And which party is for improving public schools instead of breaking them? This mythical voter needs to be protected from tech executives (and not, say, billionaires who join forces and pour hundreds of millions of dollars into politics, to the furthest of far-right?)

    This voter wants a philosophic change of course, and Trump offers that, too. The two party establishments are mired in their orthodoxies, but Trump and his appointees are embodiments of the nationalism espoused by Pat Buchanan, the most influential public intellectual in America today.

    Buchanan’s organizing worldview is embodied in visceral form in the person of Steve Bannon. “The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia,” Bannon said in his Hollywood Reporter interview. The new political movement, he said, is “everything related to jobs.”

    He vowed to drive conservatives crazy with a gigantic spending program to create jobs. He vowed to use that money to create a new New Deal that will win over 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote, creating a neo-Jacksonian majority that will govern for 50 years.

    It’s not my cup of tea, but I can see why some good people might be willing to tolerate Trump and Bannon’s personalities in order to pursue it.

    Hmm…why do we need a gigantic spending program for jobs when unemployment is below 5%, again? What in Trump’s or Bannon’s resumes’ tells us they know anything about creating jobs?

    And here I’ll just add in LYING where appropriate:

    Those of us in the opinion class have been complaining that Trump voters are post-truth, that they don’t have a respect for expertise. Well, the experts created a school system that doesn’t produce skilled graduates.LYING The experts designed Obamacare exchanges that are failing.LYY-ING…There will be plenty of time to be disgusted with Trump’s bigotry, narcissism and incompetence. It’s tempting to get so caught up in his outrage du jour that you never have to do any self-examination. But let’s be honest: It wouldn’t kill us Trump critics to take a break from our never-ending umbrage to engage in a little listening.

  37. 37
    jk says:

    New Yorker editor David Remnick has a blog post about Trump’s meeting with the press:

    Another participant at the meeting said that Trump’s behavior was “totally inappropriate” and “fucking outrageous.” The television people thought that they were being summoned to ask questions; Trump has not held a press conference since late July. Instead, they were subjected to a stream of insults and complaints—and not everyone absorbed it with pleasure.

    “I have to tell you, I am emotionally fucking pissed,” another participant said. “How can this not influence coverage? I am being totally honest with you. Toward the end of the campaign, it got to a point where I thought that the coverage was all about [Trump’s] flaws and problems. And that’s legit. But, I thought, O.K., let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. After the meeting today, though—and I am being human with you here—I think, Fuck him! I know I am being emotional about it. And I know I will get over it in a couple of days after Thanksgiving. But I really am offended. This was unprecedented. Outrageous!”

    Kellyanne Conway, who managed Trump’s campaign and who is now his senior adviser, said that the meeting had been “very cordial, candid, and honest.”

    Participants said that Trump did not seem entirely rational about his criticism of the media, nor did he appear any more informed about policy than he had been during the campaign. When one participant pointed out that all Presidents and Presidential candidates believe they get bad press, Trump said, “Not Obama!”

    h/t http://www.newyorker.com/news/.....-the-press

  38. 38
    Mnemosyne says:

    @LAO:

    Cross-check any home remedies with the ASPCA poison database before administering anything. Dogs are not humans, and there are things that are poisonous or dangerous for them that are fine for us.

  39. 39
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Kryptik: Meh typical CEO self congratulatory nonspeak. Go read it again, Trump basically said nothing, goes on about Syria is a problem and we’re going to solve it, but nothing how it’s going to be done and the rest was how much everyone loves Trump.

  40. 40
    Gretchen says:

    I totally disagree with those who think we shouldn’t call him names. The one thing he craves is respect, and the one thing he can’t stand is being laughed t – see reaction to SNL skit. Our best hope is that he decides this isn’t fun and quits, or that he is made so ridiculous that his supporters, who thought his strength would bring them respect, also get tired of supporting a laughingstock and desert him.

  41. 41
    kindness says:

    Not wishing it on anyone mind you but I don’t doubt that the spin used by Trump & Co will trample more than one person’s last remaining sanity nerve and prompt them to do unspeakable things. Well, we’ve seen that previously the TrumpCo had asked for villains to avenge them and some did. It’ll happen again. I suspect there will be blowback coming back at them over the course of 4 years though. TrumpCo still hasn’t learned that light tough. It will leave a mark on all of us. When it happens, go home and lock the doors. It’ll be an excuse for open season.

  42. 42
    hovercraft says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I’m pretty sure she lives here in Jersey, which is also where she’s from.

    That line about “helping her heal” really gut-punched me. What a pompous, patronizing POS Kellyanne is.

    She is a truly vile human being, the result of this election is the culmination of her career long ambition to bring down the Clintons. It’s what brought her and her husband together, and they can go down in history right alongside the Shitgibbon as the terrible facilitators they are. She is vile, I wish there was a hell for her to burn in.

  43. 43

    @Brachiator: @low-tech cyclist: They’re not the ones who are going to get screwed the hardest.

  44. 44
    hovercraft says:

    @Brachiator:
    Teresa May’s administration already rebuffed that suggestion, by pointing out that there is no vacancy.

  45. 45
    Turgidson says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Also, given that truth and actual policy aims do not matter to the electorate anymore, it is extremely unlikely that many Trump voters will reassess their support of him when he’s done breaking all his bullshit promises and failing to deliver the “Great Again” country he said he could conjure. Whatever tiny slice of his voters were Obama voters who flipped are probably still reachable in the next couple cycles, but most of Trump’s supporters will blame Democrats and “those people” for their plight even as Trump and/or his pets in Congress actively make it worse.

  46. 46
    Brachiator says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    you younglings who complain about Tweety and Morning Joseph, let Uncle Foolish tell you the tale of MSNBC in the late nineties, when Geraldo Rivera had seemingly limitless hours to interview a two headed creature named Joe-DiGenova-and-Victoria-Toensing, to say nothing of Jonah Goldberg, his dam Lucianne, Susan Carpenter MacMillan….

    I will see your Geraldo, and raise you a Wally George from the 1980s, and a Morton Downey, Jr.

    Nothing new about the loudmouth brigade, pundit division.

  47. 47
    Gretchen says:

    Totally agree about Kellyanne Conway. I was really looking forward to never hearing from her again, or looking at her awful hair. For some reason her hair really bothers me.

  48. 48
    The Moar You Know says:

    If (a very big if) Dr. Orange is not impeached within the first couple years

    @GrandJury: Just had this conversation with my dad, a former diehard lifelong Republican who is so angry about Trump’s nomination and election that I fear for his health sometimes (he still does not, and does not want to understand what happened to “his party” that led to this outcome, but baby steps, he did vote for Hillary). He is desperately clinging to the idea that Trump will shit the bed and that all the “good Republicans” (who no longer exist) will impeach him. I laughed, gently, and just said “that’s not happening”. And it’s not. Trump voters ARE GOP voters and they can’t be separated. Impeach Trump and the GOP loses all their voters. They will not do it. Frankly, they’d be stupid to. Trump’s voters knew what they were voting for. They EXPECT him to be an asshole and loot the country. They not only don’t care, they’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t.

  49. 49
    LAO says:

    @The Moar You Know: Thanks — she didn’t used to get car sick but the last 4 times. Wow! such a little dog, so much vomit.

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for the link. (I did ask the vet tech). It’s remarkable the number of foods that can harm/poison a pet.

  50. 50
    MaryS-NJ says:

    During the campaign, it was said by some pundit (can’t recall which) that Trump’s fans took him seriously but not literally, whereas the media took him literally but not seriously. Apparently, that was correct.

    The Trump campaign could falsely accuse a woman of high crimes and then poof it all away if they wanted to. All Trump or Kellyanne needs to say to his adoring fans is “that was just campaign banter”, and they’ll all fall in line. But instead they take this patronizing position about a woman who had the dignity to bow out more gracefully than they deserved. It makes me sick to my stomach.

  51. 51
    Kryptik says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: It was soaked in gladhanding, and almost all verifiable lies down to the last word. It makes it clear we shoudn’t expect Clinton to get a legitimate reprieve once he takes office. Because he’s enough of a petty ass, enough of a liar, and enough of a terrible human being to double back and go after her like he said anyway.

  52. 52
    Another Scott says:

    @LAO: Changing car-sickness behavior sounds weird. Has anything else changed? Windows down vs up?

    I used to get car sick as a kid (once I threw up on a scoutmaster’s car just as we were pulling into his driveway ;-). I have gotten sick once on airplanes in the last 5 years (lots of side-to-side turbulence). Keeping my back cold is the best way to avoid it.

    I hope you get it figured out. Best of luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  53. 53
    Brachiator says:

    @hovercraft:

    Teresa May’s administration already rebuffed that suggestion, by pointing out that there is no vacancy.

    Oh, I know that there was no shot at this.

    It is another appalling example of President-elect Trump’s ignorance, and his blatant admiration for bigots and scum.

    And yet, here in Southern California, I keep hearing radio talk show hosts (and others) insist that Trump’s ignorance is no big deal, and that any and all accusations that he is flirting with racism or fascism is nothing more than the overblown fantasies of sore-loser, whiny liberal elitists.

  54. 54
    bemused says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Whew. I’m glad that most of the time it’s hilarious how the brain misreads phrases and this doesn’t happen often

  55. 55
    Elizabelle says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m fine with that, too. Let it take as long as it takes.

    Have not heard a peep out of PBO, though. So he takes the election results as legitimate and confirmed?

  56. 56
    Quinerly says:

    Didn’t read thru all the comments so apologize if this has been mentioned. Strange Buzzfeed article saying that WAPO Cohen’s piece today got edited. A reference to Trump asking if it was wrong to be more sexually attracted to his daughter (Ivanka was 13 at the time)than to his wife scrubbed from his column after he submitted it. Hiatt’s response in Buzzfeed was a non answer. Any other reporting out there on this? Cohen on Twitter? I’m not.

  57. 57
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kryptik: the two-facedness from Trump or from the Clouds! Shadows! Emails! courtesans at the New York Times?

    Someone tweeted that the NYT laid out a spread of salmon, tenderloin of beef, and squash, but no one is eating.

  58. 58
    JMG says:

    Trump was never, ever, ever going to prosecute Clinton, because it’d be a DC jury trial and she’d be acquitted before the jury left the box. That anyone believed that he would only speaks to how many of his most devoted fans are made so stupid with hate it’s like they’ve been sniffing paint thinner for years, which some of ’em probably have.

  59. 59
    bemused says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I feel for your dad. He must be reeling. His lifelong Republican world has suddenly, to him, imploded.

  60. 60
    MuckJagger says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Not only will they *not* turn on him, they’ll find excuses to keep supporting him no matter what he does.

    Case (marginally) in point: A friend from back home just posted a blurb on Facebook about a casting call for Hamilton is racist because they want people of color to play the founding fathers.

    This is from a guy who likely doesn’t know the first thing about Hamilton, or the reasons Miranda chose to do that. All that matters is His Donaldness is against it…so he’s against it as well.

  61. 61
    The Moar You Know says:

    she didn’t used to get car sick but the last 4 times. Wow!

    @LAO: That’s not normal. Anxiety is my first suspicion. Flea treatment is the second. Some make dogs pretty pukey – my guitar player’s dealing with this with his lab puppy at the moment. Food can irritate as well, mixed chicken and rice for a few days helps get ’em back to normal.

  62. 62
    hueyplong says:

    I haven’t heard Conway’s voice since election night and I can too keep it up.

  63. 63
    Shalimar says:

    @Kryptik: I think Trump wants the appearance of clean hands, so he will order Sessions to go after Hillary and then pretend it is the Justice Department doing their job with no interference from him. 3500 total lawsuits say he is one of the most vindictive people who has ever lived. There is no way he doesn’t hold a deep grudge for the way she destroyed him in the debates.

  64. 64
    Miss Bianca says:

    I saw the title of this post and my mind immediately went to “eye of Newt, toe of frog”…

  65. 65
    JMG says:

    Deep down in the depths of his brain, I believe Trump realizes that prosecuting a beaten election opponent would establish a precedent he might come to regret.

  66. 66
    OGLiberal says:

    @low-tech cyclist: I was already almost there but this election was basically the straw that finally broke the camel’s back. Those WWC – and white middle class..and white upper middle class voters – who may feel pain because of Trump? Fuck them. I want them to feel pain. As for the Democratic/Obama coalition that couldn’t be bothered enough to come out to vote (and not vote for Jill Fucking Stein) this year because Clinton was less than inspiring…fuck you…own this….deal with it….live with it…enjoy it…fuck you. If I lose my job and I can no longer get coverage for my son who has Crohn’s disease in a Trump, no-ACA world, I’ll smile a bit knowing that maybe your life is just as miserable. Fuck the WWC or whoever it was that just had to vote for the dude who was going to stick it to the browns, the lazies, the kids, etc. And fuck the folks on our side who couldn’t be bothered to come out. This could have easily have been prevented if you did. You didn’t. Fuck you.

  67. 67
    JPL says:

    @LAO: A friend of mine, had a similar problem. The dog didn’t get sick in the front seat, so she purchased a doggie seat belt for the dog. It’s not an ideal solution, because a dog in the front seat can be a distraction. Of course, so can a dog that is vomiting all over.

  68. 68
    hovercraft says:

    @Brachiator:

    Prime Minister Theresa May, who congratulated Trump on his victory, was swift to reject such an undiplomatic proposal, with a spokesman saying Britain already had an excellent ambassador to Washington and that London would appoint its own envoys.

    “We have first rate ambassador in Washington,” Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, who campaigned for Brexit, told the British parliament. “There is no vacancy for that position.

    It is highly unusual in the modern era for leaders to publicly suggest to foreign nations whom they would like to see as ambassador, though during strained relations they sometimes reject or expel envoys.

    Trump’s suggestion provoked anger, support and even hilarity in Britain, with one lawmaker, Conservative Simon Burns, joking that perhaps Britain should suggest Hillary Clinton as its preferred choice as ambassador to London.

    But the apparent public suggestion about who to appoint as ambassador by the man who will lead Britain’s most powerful ally puts Prime Minister May in a difficult position just as she tries to build ties with Washington ahead of leaving the EU.

    London is trying to gauge whether Trump would support a special trade deal with Britain as it negotiates a divorce from the EU. Britain also places great store on what it calls its “special relationship” with the United States.

    “MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS”

    It’s SAD ! when even it’s doppleganger in stupidity is smacking him down.

  69. 69
    The Moar You Know says:

    I feel for your dad. He must be reeling. His lifelong Republican world has suddenly, to him, imploded.

    @bemused: He is and it has. He’s horrified and (worst part for me to watch) deeply, deeply ashamed. All he ever wanted to do was pay less taxes. He didn’t realize that all the new Republicans, the ones from my generation and later, weren’t in it for good governance and grounded fiscal policy, they were in it to outlaw black people, “Mexicans” (anyone brown) and queers.

    A sobering object lesson in living in a bubble, actually. I think a lot of us are suffering from the same thing post-this election. The things I cite about the GOP were in plain sight, that the GOP had gone off the rails was obvious back in 1992. Or for me, as far back as 1979. But if you don’t want to see it, you won’t.

  70. 70
    bemused says:

    What is pissing me off now is watching Trump have the time of his wretched life playing with the media and everyone else, shooting at their feet, making them dance.

  71. 71
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Kellyeanne is like Ann Coulter: greatest regret is born a half century too late to be the Bitch of Buchenwald.

  72. 72
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @The Moar You Know: 1968. Southern Strategy.

  73. 73
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @low-tech cyclist: I’d seen exit polls that suggested that the “working class” actually voted more for Hillary – Trump started winning majorities at $50,000 individual income and above. So those put-upon folks who felt dumped on by everyone actually showed a preference for Clinton.

    This is an important issue to consider as well. I see people saying that the bigots turned out for Trump. Well, they did, but so did a lot of people who’ve been flim-flammed for so many years they don’t have any real leadership any longer.

    People who believed that Terri Schiavo was murdered (rather than, in accordance with a court finding, had her clearly stated end-of-life desires carried out) probably broke for Trump. Why would anyone believe that she was murdered? Because it was easier to slime the entire judiciary, and well-settled law, and all democratic institutions, than to give up on an attack line – they really wanted to ask “why do liberals want Terri Schiavo to die?” so all the lies, all the damage done to the public trust, all of the vilification of a (by all accounts, a decent and loving) innocent man, all of that didn’t matter… there was a NEWS CYCLE to win!

    People who believe that Trayvon Martin was laying a major beatdown on a guy, because the guy had a bloody nose and a scratch on the back of his head, they probably broke for Trump. And forget talking about the responsibility of gun ownership, and the awful choices one may have to make, or questioning how a guy, pinned down, getting his head beaten on a sidewalk (while miraculously sustaining no truly meaningful injuries) could draw a gun holstered just above his left butt cheek – there’s a NEWS CYCLE to win!

    People who think that George “My Oops was better than Perry’s!” W. Bush kept us safe because he talked tough, tortured, kidnapped a bunch of people, held them lawlessly (both in and out of the US – yes, I know, technically detention on a “material witness” warrant is legal – but the misuse of those warrants is lawless), illegally spied, etc., those people broke for Trump. (I can’t even begin on “there’s a news cycle to win” with that poor incompetent not-technically-a-bastard.)

    After these people have been flim-flammed for so long, how do they have any chance to spot that Trump is a dangerous incompetent? It’s not like the news media will inform them! They were still shocked that a REPUBLICAN pointed out that, no, George W. didn’t keep us safe.

  74. 74
    Brachiator says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    They’re not the ones who are going to get screwed the hardest.

    From the way things are shaping up, there will be plenty of pain for everyone.

  75. 75
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Gretchen:

    see reaction to SNL skit

    and Alex Baldwin dressed as Trump yelling right back at him. That is both hilerious and making the point at how absurd Trump really is.

  76. 76
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @JMG: I don’t think he’s bright enough to realize what such a precedent it would set. The Bourbons and the Romanovs have some experience in these matters that he might want to heed.

  77. 77
    bemused says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    We’ve been stunned, horrified and feeling physically beaten up since Nov. 9. I think it’s just hitting Republicans like your dad now.

  78. 78
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    They’re not the ones who are going to get screwed the hardest.

    Speaking of facts not in evidence: they’re never in evidence concerning the future, you know. Which is why I used ‘probably’ when speaking of what I expected the future to be like.

  79. 79
    jacy says:

    @Gretchen:

    Yes. People are thinking of him as a sociopath. That’s not a good lens. He’s a narcissist. There’s distinction enough that you should focus on his narcissistic disorder. He craves acceptance and adulation like a drug. Mocking him is absolutely the right way to handle it. And the important thing to remember is that while sociopaths are tenacious, narcissists are quitters. When they come across a situation that threatens “self” they will eventually abandon it. They will withdraw. People who see his as a sociopath give him too much credit. I still think there’s a good chance that he’ll be unable to handle what’s coming.

  80. 80
    cmorenc says:

    @Yutsano:

    She conceded way too fast, especially with the slow counts in Michigan and Minnesota.

    Just 110,000 votes difference, spread strategically across just three critical states, and HRC would be President by the electoral and not just popular vote count (the aggregate difference was 107,105 cumulative across those three states)
    – Trump won Michigan’s 16 e.v. by 11,612 votes (with the final count not yet in !) (apx. 0.3%)
    – Trump won Wisconsin’s 10 e.v. by 27,257 votes (apx 1.0%)
    – Trump won Pennsylvania’s 20 e.v. by 68,236 votes (apx 1.2%)
    Had Clinton won those states by a similar narrow margin, the e.v. count would have been: Clinton 278 Trump 244. The popular vote differential (with counting not yet complete in California) stands at: 1,598,260 or apx. +1.2% Clinton. By contrast, although Bush v Gore in 2000 had a much narrower final electoral vote count (271-266) and a much narrower popular vote count (597) in Florida and (7,211) in New Hampshire, an opposite result in either of which would have won Gore the e.v. – nevertheless Clinton won the national popular vote by 3x the margin Gore won it by (543,895 vs 1,598,260).

    This isn’t to discount the fact that Trump’s narrow victory enables the GOP to inflict profound differences on the country, just as Bush’s less-legitimate electoral college victory did. Nor is it to whistle past the fact that the democratic party isn’t effectively reaching at least high-single digit % of the population over the right-wing noise machine, which segment of folks naturally ought to be far more at home with us than the GOP. Nor is it to overlook the fact that starting in 2010, the GOP has tactically outmaneuvered us in seizing strategic control of too many local races, state house races, and governorships (which coincides with the period when Howard Dean of the 50-state strategy was no longer head of the DNC and Debbie Wasserman-Shultz of the unwilling to support Miami dems running against her GOP buddies for congressional seats because well, they were her buds in DC).

    THE MAIN POINT IS: Although 27% of the country are hopeless wingnuts, most of whom are living in the epistemologically closed information universe of Fox, Rush, et al – and another 22% more temporarily lost their minds this election (pushed in part by Comey and the media’s abysmal incompetence) – nevertheless a solid half of the country is *not* on-board from the get-go with the shitgibbon, and much of that 22% of temporarily insane citizens are at best, very soft Trump voters who have low-inertia against events going forward souring them on Trump. What we have to figure out to do is how to help those 22% along the path to enlightenment, without seeming to condescend to them or insincerely patronize them. We have to recognize that some key pet issues of ours (in referring them to “pet” I’m not denigrating these issues, just pointing out that we can’t let our passionate commitment to them blind us to the fact that these particular issues aren’t the ones that stimulate the motivations of that 22% to enthusiastically jump back on-board with us.

  81. 81
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Dogs are not humans, and there are things that are poisonous or dangerous for them that are fine for us.

    And vice versa. :-)

  82. 82
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Presidential Medal of Freedom ceremonies (today) at 11:55 AM Eastern

    Which you can see online at this (link)

    The following individuals will be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom:

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the National Basketball Association’s all-time leading scorer who helped lead the Los Angeles Lakers to five championships and the Milwaukee Bucks to another. During his career, Abdul-Jabbar was a six-time NBA Most Valuable Player and a 19-time NBA All-Star. Before joining the NBA, he was a star player at UCLA, leading the Bruins to three consecutive championships. In addition to his legendary basketball career, Abdul-Jabbar has been an outspoken advocate for social justice.

    Elouise Cobell (posthumous)

    Elouise Cobell was a Blackfeet Tribal community leader and an advocate for Native American self-determination and financial independence. She used her expertise in accounting to champion a lawsuit that resulted in a historic settlement, restoring tribal homelands to her beloved Blackfeet Nation and many other tribes, and in so doing, inspired a new generation of Native Americans to fight for the rights of others. Cobell helped found the Native American Bank, served as director of the Native American Community Development Corporation, and inspired Native American women to seek leadership roles in their communities.

    Ellen DeGeneres

    Ellen DeGeneres is an award-winning comedian who has hosted her popular daytime talk show, The Ellen DeGeneres Show, since 2003 with her trademarked humor, humility, and optimism. In 2003 Ellen lent her voice to a forgetful but unforgettable little fish named Dory in Finding Nemo. She reprised her role again in 2016 with the hugely successful Finding Dory. Ellen also hosted the Academy Awards twice, in 2007 and 2014. In 1997, after coming out herself, DeGeneres made TV history when her character on Ellen revealed she was a lesbian. In her work and in her life, she has been a passionate advocate for equality and fairness.

    Robert De Niro

    Robert De Niro has brought to life some of the most memorable roles in American film during a career that spans five decades. His first major film roles were in the sports drama Bang the Drum Slowly and Martin Scorsese’s crime film Mean Streets. He is a seven-time Academy Award nominee and two-time Oscar winner, and is also a Kennedy Center honoree.

    Richard Garwin

    Richard Garwin is a polymath physicist who earned a Ph.D. under Enrico Fermi at age 21 and subsequently made pioneering contributions to U.S. defense and intelligence technologies, low-temperature and nuclear physics, detection of gravitational radiation, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), computer systems, laser printing, and nuclear arms control and nonproliferation. He directed Applied Research at IBM’s Thomas J. Watson Research Center and taught at the University of Chicago, Columbia University, and Harvard University. The author of 500 technical papers and a winner of the National Medal of Science, Garwin holds 47 U.S. patents, and has advised numerous administrations.

    Bill and Melinda Gates

    Bill and Melinda Gates established the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation in 2000 to help all people lead healthy, productive lives. In developing countries, the foundation focuses on improving people’s health and giving them the chance to lift themselves out of hunger and extreme poverty. In the United States, the mission is to ensure that all people—especially those with the fewest resources—have access to the opportunities they need to succeed in school and life. The Gates Foundation has provided more than $36 billion in grants since its inception.

    Frank Gehry

    Frank Gehry is one of the world’s leading architects, whose works have helped define contemporary architecture. His best-known buildings include the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles, the Dancing House in Prague, and the Guggenheim Museum building in Bilbao, Spain.

    Margaret H. Hamilton

    Margaret H. Hamilton led the team that created the on-board flight software for NASA’s Apollo command modules and lunar modules. A mathematician and computer scientist who started her own software company, Hamilton contributed to concepts of asynchronous software, priority scheduling and priority displays, and human-in-the-loop decision capability, which set the foundation for modern, ultra-reliable software design and engineering.

    Tom Hanks

    Tom Hanks is one of the Nation’s finest actors and filmmakers. He has been nominated for the Academy Award for Best Actor in a Leading Role five times, and received the award for his work in Philadelphia and Forrest Gump. Those roles and countless others, including in Apollo 13, Saving Private Ryan, and Cast Away, have left an indelible mark on American film. Off screen, as an advocate, Hanks has advocated for social and environmental justice, and for our veterans and their families.

    Grace Hopper (posthumous)

    Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, known as “Amazing Grace” and “the first lady of software,” was at the forefront of computers and programming development from the 1940s through the 1980s. Hopper’s work helped make coding languages more practical and accessible, and she created the first compiler, which translates source code from one language into another. She taught mathematics as an associate professor at Vassar College before joining the United States Naval Reserve as a lieutenant (junior grade) during World War II, where she became one of the first programmers of the Harvard Mark I computer and began her lifelong leadership role in the field of computer science.

    Michael Jordan

    Michael Jordan is one of the greatest athletes of all time. Jordan played 15 seasons in the NBA for the Chicago Bulls and Washington Wizards; he is currently a principal owner and chairman of the Charlotte Hornets. During his career, he won six championships, five Most Valuable Player awards, and appeared in 14 All-Star games.

    Maya Lin

    Maya Lin is an artist and designer who is known for her work in sculpture and landscape art. She designed the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington D.C. and since then has pursued a celebrated career in both art and architecture. A committed environmentalist, Lin is currently working on a multi-sited artwork/memorial, What is Missing? bringing awareness to the planet’s loss of habitat and biodiversity.

    Lorne Michaels

    Lorne Michaels is a producer and screenwriter, best known for creating and producing Saturday Night Live, which has run continuously for more than 40 years. In addition, Michaels has also produced The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, Late Night with Seth Meyers, and 30 Rock, among other popular, award-winning shows. He has won 13 Emmy Awards over the course of his lengthy career.

    Newt Minow

    Newt Minow is an attorney with a long and distinguished career in public life. After serving in the U.S. Army during World War II, Minow served as a Supreme Court clerk and counsel to the Governor of Illinois. In 1961, President Kennedy selected Minow, then 34, to serve as Chairman of the Federal Communications Committee (FCC), where he helped shape the future of American television and was a vigorous advocate for broadcasting that promoted the public interest. In the five decades since leaving the FCC, Minow has maintained a prominent private law practice while devoting himself to numerous public and charitable causes.

    Eduardo Padrón

    Eduardo Padrón is the President of Miami Dade College (MDC), one of the largest institutions of higher education in the United States. During his more than four decade career, President Padrón has been a national voice for access and inclusion. He has worked to ensure all students have access to high quality, affordable education. He has championed innovative teaching and learning strategies making MDC a national model of excellence.

    Robert Redford

    Robert Redford is an actor, director, producer, businessman, and environmentalist. In 1981, he founded the Sundance Institute to advance the work of independent filmmakers and storytellers throughout the world, including through its annual Sundance Film Festival. He has received an Academy Award for Best Director and for Lifetime Achievement. Redford has directed or starred in numerous motion pictures, including The Candidate, All the President’s Men, Quiz Show, and A River Runs Through It.

    Diana Ross

    Diana Ross has had an iconic career spanning more than 50 years within the entertainment industry in music, film, television, theater, and fashion. Diana Ross is an Academy Award nominee, inductee into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and recipient of the Grammy Awards highest honor, the Lifetime Achievement Award. Ross was a recipient of the 2007 Kennedy Center Honors. Diana Ross’s greatest legacy is her five wonderful children.

    Vin Scully

    Vin Scully is a broadcaster who, for 67 seasons, was the voice of the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers. In Southern California, where generations of fans have grown up listening to Dodger baseball, Scully’s voice is known as the “soundtrack to summer.” In 1988, he was inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Scully’s signature voice brought to life key moments in baseball history, including perfect games by Sandy Koufax and Don Larsen, Kirk Gibson’s home run in the 1988 World Series, and Hank Aaron’s record-breaking 715th home run.

    Bruce Springsteen

    Bruce Springsteen is a singer, songwriter, and bandleader. More than five decades ago, he bought a guitar and learned how to make it talk. Since then, the stories he has told, in lyrics and epic live concert performances, have helped shape American music and have challenged us to realize the American dream. Springsteen is a Kennedy Center honoree and he and the E Street Band he leads have each been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

    Cicely Tyson

    Cicely Tyson has performed on the stage, on television, and on the silver screen. She has won two Emmy Awards and a Tony Award, and is known for her performances in Sounder, The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman, and The Help. In 2013, she returned to the stage with The Trip to the Bountiful, and was awarded the Tony Award for best leading actress. Tyson received the Kennedy Center Honors in 2015.

  83. 83
    Lizzy L says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Shalimar:

    Yep. This is what I would expect.

    Interesting, how he did the humiliation/domination thing with the TV media people and the “statesman” thing with the Times. He’s a manipulative shit, isn’t he. I can see how he must function as a salesman. He’s supposedly very very good at it.

    I assume the NYT people realize that and how they’re being used. They’re the fucking Times, they must know.

    They know. From a tweet by Mike Grynbaum, who was at the meeting: “Trump was in sales mode — joking, solicitous.”

  84. 84
    SatanicPanic says:

    @JMG: I dunno, this assumes things work normally. I’m not sure that’s going to be the case.

  85. 85

    @Brachiator: @low-tech cyclist: Why am I getting so much pushback here? It is simply true that the white working class, particularly the ~$70k median income ones who went for Trump, will not be the people hurt the most. low-tech-cyclist said they would be. That’s it.

  86. 86
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @hovercraft:

    I’m pretty sure she lives here in Jersey, which is also where she’s from.

    Thanks. Was pretty sure she was from either Jersey or Connecticut but couldn’t be arsed to look it up.

  87. 87
    cmorenc says:

    When I initially saw the name “Margaret Hamilton” on the list, the person who jumped to mind was the actress who so ably played the Wicked Witch of the West in “Wizard of Oz”. But she’s been dead since 1985.

  88. 88
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @hovercraft:

    Teresa May’s administration already rebuffed that suggestion, by pointing out that there is no vacancy.

    I’m no fan of Teresa May, but I must say I admire her phrasing here.

    EDIT: Hmm, and it just occurred to me that Trump must think that because key positions in the U.S. administration change with a new President, somehow that means that OTHER countries need to change their OWN leadership and representation??

  89. 89
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @Turgidson:
    Remember to point out what a loser he is – he’s told us that a loser is someone who can’t make changes happen; that Hillary Clinton was a loser because she, as one senator, couldn’t change the entire nation. He’ll have been the President – he’ll have had actual power. That makes him far more of a loser.

    (What? I *AM* giving him a chance… but when a rank incompetent tries to do something far, far beyond his abilities, the chance isn’t whether or not he’ll fail, but whether or not he’ll actually nuke someone before people realize what a dumbass he really is.)

  90. 90
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    @low-tech cyclist: I’d seen exit polls that suggested that the “working class” actually voted more for Hillary – Trump started winning majorities at $50,000 individual income and above. So those put-upon folks who felt dumped on by everyone actually showed a preference for Clinton.

    I’ve seen those polls, but they don’t break it down by white/nonwhite. So what we’re looking at is the minority vote swinging those lower incomes for Clinton. No other explanation makes sense.

  91. 91
    SWMBO says:

    @LAO: I have had a couple of pukers over the years. Feed them dry food to settle his stomach. Like giving a child crackers for the same reason. Crate them in the car and don’t let them look out the windows. The motion is too much for the stomach to coordinate visual perception and physical motion. Trying to make sense out of the fast moving colors will make them hurl sometimes. If crated, he can be covered and not see as much. You can put an old towel in it to make cleanup easier. Give him water at stops and let him walk around enough to let it settle on his stomach. Don’t let him bolt a lot of water and then get in the car. Make practice rides at night to see if the motion blur is part of the problem. Turn cool air (not warm) on the dog while riding. Heat makes them more volatile. If it’s anxiety or excitement causing it, load/unload the dog in the car a couple of times a day when you can just to alleviate the initial anxiety. Work up to driving around the block and then farther afield. Take a hint from our bloghost and don’t load him up with food before a ride (especially wet food). Just like any other training exercise, start slow and easy and work up to where you want to be.

  92. 92
    jacy says:

    @MuckJagger:

    My son (11) related to me a story where his grandparents (my ex-inlaws) were complaining that there were two things wrong with Hamilton: it had that horrid rap, and they had colored people playing all the white people’s parts. He patiently explained to them that those two things were the whole point of the play. I don’t think they understood.

  93. 93
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @JMG:

    Deep down in the depths of his brain

    Assumes facts…and depth…not in evidence.

  94. 94
    hovercraft says:

    @MaryS-NJ:

    During the campaign, it was said by some pundit (can’t recall which) that Trump’s fans took him seriously but not literally, whereas the media took him literally but not seriously. Apparently, that was correct.

    As a pre November the 8 th avid watcher of msnbc, I saw this with my own eyes, when Shitgibbon supporters were confronted with it’s flip flops or worse still, outrageous comments, they all said that it was just saying that, they “knew” it didn’t mean it or would never actually do that. This is why all the people jumping on all the reversals it has made since the election are wasting their time waiting for it’s fans to be outraged. They voted for the attitude, and for the fact that all of the people they hate, hated the Shitgibbon. The specifics were not important, the chance to get back at us and to put themselves back on top were the main attractions. They knew Mexico wasn’t going to pay for any wall, but they think the Shitgibbon can get rid of boatloads of brown people, and scare a whole lot more into keeping their mouths shut so that they don’t come after them is reason enough o celebrate.

  95. 95
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: How about you just say, “Oops, I meant to say that while your facts are correct, I think your prediction is off.”

    Remember, this started off with brachiator and me both just being confused by your misapplication of the phrase “assumes facts not in evidence” to what I said would *probably* happen. Which ain’t a factual statement. So we both thought you had to be referring to my *actual* statement of fact that you quoted.

  96. 96
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You’re right. I already know who the people are that are going to be fucked by a Trump presidency. I can see one of them in my mirror.

  97. 97
    Helen says:

    So I found the BEST restaurant tonight. Darwins. They are in the Theatre district and they have the best pre-theatre menu. I had the Bouillabaisse. Unbelievable. So as I’m leaving, the owner, Deloris, stops me and asks me my story. Didn’t I tell y’all that the minute you open your mouth in Dublin everyone becomes your friend? So Deloris buys me a Baileys and we spend an hour just shooting the shit about the diffs and sims between NY and Dublin.

    I swear this city is gonna break the cynical bitch that I am!

  98. 98
    waysel says:

    @Major Major Major Major: LO-Tech has never heard of single black mothers, or Muslim refugees already living here. Or Latinos. Or black males of any age. Sheltered existence, much?

  99. 99

    @hovercraft:

    A mixture of gullibility and cynicism had been an outstanding characteristic of mob mentality before it became an everyday phenomenon of masses. In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. The mixture in itself was remarkable enough, because it spelled the end of the illusion that gullibility was a weakness of unsuspecting primitive souls and cynicism the vice of superior and refined minds. Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.

    — Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

  100. 100
    jacy says:

    @JMG:

    You give him too much credit. He said things people wanted to hear at the moment. When it got a positive reaction, he said it some more. The moment passed, so he stopped saying those things. The moment may come when he says them again because people standing directly in front of him want to hear it. He doesn’t lie — not in his own head. He says whatever will make people admire him. It will change with different audiences, and times. It’s all consistent in his own head.

  101. 101

    @low-tech cyclist: Because it’s a figure of speech that, when used in a courtroom setting, is not meant to be taken 100% literally

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @hovercraft:

    It’s SAD ! when even it’s doppleganger in stupidity is smacking him down.

    A dirt bag like Boris Johnson was happy when Trump was insulting Obama and even incorrectly crediting Scotland with being pro-BREXIT. But an insult to the UK, well, that’s just not the thing, eh what!

  103. 103
    Betty Cracker says:

    OP ETA’d, FWIW.

  104. 104
    SenyorDave says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I just remember that moment when the fatuous little toad Chuck Todd stopped debate coverage to reassure FlyoverLand that he knew Kellyanne Conway was, as he put it in his most simpering tone, “a good person”, never mind your silly little heads, that will never read an invitation to one of Sally Quinn’s intimate buffets for 150 of anyone who’s anyone, all worried about her helping a racist demagogue shred every norm of our civil and political society.

    They say that Goebbels wasn’t such a bad guy when you got to know him.

    BTW, is Kellyann Conway the person you picked in a bar and the next morning you looked over and “JFC, what did I do?

  105. 105
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I don’t know. He may be playing his patented 11-dimensional chess behind the scenes. I know he wants what is ultimately best for the country, and I suspect he is going through various possible scenarios in his mind and perhaps with one or two trusted advisors.

    I don’t envy him right now.

    On a lighter topic, did you hear that Ellen DeGeneres forgot her ID when she showed up at the for her Medal of Freedom ceremony today and had to sit outside the White House and cool her heels for a while. LOL.

  106. 106
    cmorenc says:

    Speaking of awful people – I wish we could retroactively give the GOP one of our own real shit-weasels, Anthony Weiner.

  107. 107

    ETA: The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that this is Trump’s “Nazi Frog Moment.” Remember Bill Clinton’s so-called “Sistah Souljah” moment, when he denounced a controversial black entertainer to solidify wavering support among whites? Well, the shit-gibbon’s reversal on “lock her up!” isn’t going down well with the usual suspects, including the editors at neo-Nazi hub Breitbart, which is Trump’s chief strategist’s baby.

    @Betty Cracker: wouldn’t his Sistah Souljah moment be actually denouncing the actual Nazi frog people and their Nazi salutes and Nazi rhetoric?

  108. 108
    Poopyman says:

    @Helen: It’ll do that!

    I am so envious.

  109. 109
    hovercraft says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Kellyeanne is like Ann Coulter: greatest regret is born a half century too late to be the Bitch of Buchenwald.

    They along with Barbara Olsen were known back in the day as “the three blondes”, they were smart, attractive, young women lawyers groomed to be more “hip” Phyllis Schlafly’s. They were deployed on TV as part of the project to bring down the Clintons’. The plan was to infiltrate the “liberal” media, become media darlings, and it worked,this is why they get the kid gloves from the media wherever they go, even Bill Maher is nice to them, because they all go a ways back together. Before she died on 9/11, Barbara Olsen was also a favorite TV right winger.

  110. 110
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @JMG:

    Deep down in the depths of his brain

    Assuming facts not in evidence.

  111. 111
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Kryptik: eh, fits Trump’s MO – Threaten something he can’t do and then congratulates himself for his benevolence when he decides not to do something he couldn’t do anyway. With Trump just think “what’s the easiest way to claim victory if you are lazy and dumb but aren’t afraid to lie”.

  112. 112
    Quinerly says:

    @SenyorDave:
    Plus as I mentioned the other day, Conway was romantically linked to Senator Fred “Law & Order” Thompson. She was his “pollster”😈 at the time.

  113. 113
    hovercraft says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    I’d seen exit polls that suggested that the “working class” actually voted more for Hillary

    While it’s true that she won the “working class”, when you break it down by race, she only won non-white working class voters. Just as when you look at “women”, democrats overwhelmingly win non-white women, which is why they win women. The white working class went all in on the Shitgibbon.

  114. 114
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: When you don’t write clearly – especially when you use wording that is downright misleading – don’t blame your readers for misunderstanding you.

  115. 115
    Brachiator says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Why am I getting so much pushback here? It is simply true that the white working class, particularly the ~$70k median income ones who went for Trump, will not be the people hurt the most. low-tech-cyclist said they would be. That’s it.

    I don’t find speculative victim rankings to be useful or meaningful.

    And I often find that the people who most enjoy compiling these lists would be relatively immune to any pain that will be doled out (and I note here that I don’t know you personally or your circumstances, so this is not a specific dig at you).

    Also, Trump is such a wild card in his seeming total lack of qualification for the job that I don’t think that anyone can say what chaos he may cause.

    Ultimately, if the shit comes down hard, the question won’t be who will be hurt the most, but who will stand and fight.

  116. 116

    @low-tech cyclist: I will not apologize for using a well known piece of vernacular that is also quite popular on this blog. That’s on you.

  117. 117
  118. 118
    Gravenstone says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Saw a week or so ago the name of Laura Ingraham being floated for Press Secretary. Blech.

  119. 119
    Elizabelle says:

    @Helen: Wonderful!

  120. 120
    Betty Cracker says:

    @hovercraft: Didn’t know that; I was completely oblivious to Conway’s existence until she took over the shit-gibbon campaign.

  121. 121
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    @Gravenstone:

    Oh dear gods, really? How did I manage to miss that, I wonder?

  122. 122
    Fair Economist says:

    @JMG:

    Trump was never, ever, ever going to prosecute Clinton, because it’d be a DC jury trial and she’d be acquitted before the jury left the box.

    This. If it even got that far. Most likely the judge would laugh the case out of court first – it’s really ridiculous to prosecute somebody for discussing NYT articles.

  123. 123
    Gravenstone says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. An audit confirming shenanigans and overturning the current EC victory of Hair Furor would cause the late stage civil war (1861-2016) to escalate into a full blown shooting war again. The neo-nazis would be subdued in time, but the body count would not be pretty in that interim.

  124. 124
    EBT says:

    @bemused: The obvious answer is to learn from them. Make our side more afraid of us than their side is of them.

  125. 125
    piratedan says:

    @LAO: you might try the distraction gambit… a blanket to lay upon and a rawhide to chew….

  126. 126
    hovercraft says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

    That is so depressing, what’s the antidote?

  127. 127
    Another Scott says:

    @Fair Economist: Presumably there would have to be a grand jury to agree to draw up a bill of particulars, no? We know that grand juries have a, er, sordid history in the US (especially) recently.

    Prosecutors can cause lots and lots of damage to innocent people if they want to. Look at the McMartin Prescool travesty:

    The McMartin Preschool Abuse Trial, the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history, should serve as a cautionary tale. When it was all over, the government had spent seven years and $15 million dollars investigating and prosecuting a case that led to no convictions. More seriously, the McMartin case left in its wake hundreds of emotionally damaged children, as well as ruined careers for members of the McMartin staff.

    Emphasis added.

    We should not assume that Trump’s people won’t go after anyone for any reason – especially not because of a Tweet or because of something someone said before he even takes office…

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128
  129. 129
    Chris says:

    @hovercraft:

    Their base has completely taken over the GOP, the TEA party began as an insurgency, it has now consumed it.

    Even this understates things. The teabaggers* were astroturf-funded out the wazoo right from the start. The elites were, by and large, perfectly okay with the lurch to the far right that their party went through in the last eight years.

    Fascism: collaboration between “a mass party of committed nationalist militants,” and “traditional elites.” The collaboration may be “uneasy,” but it is “effective.”

  130. 130
    Elizabelle says:

    @Gravenstone: Are we so sure about that?

    They’re actually cowards, are they not? Otherwise, why would they need so many guns?

    And an illegal election is an illegal election.

    Mind you, I’m not sure that’s what we’re dealing with here. But this was the most interfered with election in my lifetime, and I wonder if the margins in the Midwest states would hold. Maybe so, maybe not.

  131. 131
    SenyorDave says:

    @Gravenstone: : Saw a week or so ago the name of Laura Ingraham being floated for Press Secretary. Blech.

    Makes sense, she wrote a book “The Obama Diaries” which had all sorts of racist shit in it. I remember she went on Colbert and he destroyed her, called her a racist to her face in that subtle way that only Colbert could do. BTW, Ingraham is that lovely woman who as a student at Dartmouth secretly taped meetings of a gay student organization and published transcripts of the meetings. This creature will rot in hell someday.

  132. 132
    Brachiator says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    I’ve seen those polls, but they don’t break it down by white/nonwhite. So what we’re looking at is the minority vote swinging those lower incomes for Clinton. No other explanation makes sense.

    As an aside, I mentioned way back that historians and would want to take a look at how women voted. And yet during the election campaign itself, and afterward, I have been dismayed to see how often women have been ignored. There has been blather about male Berniebros, and angry white men, but Clinton lost the white women vote pretty decisively. However, married white women was one group of many (and Clinton did better with single white women).

    There has been a false, or incomplete assumption, that the white working class voter is poor. And there have also been wrong assumptions about less educated white male voters. And again, working class white women and less educated white women have been ignored.

    And above all, black and Latino women have simply been lumped together into a indistinguishable pro-Hillary mass, which has quickly led to the lie that these women must all be unemployed welfare hustlers by the dregs of the alt-right lunatic fringe.

    It would be fun to see a demographically matched group of black and Latino women discuss why they didn’t fall for Trump’s bullshit while white women in the same group ate it up.

  133. 133
    Gin & Tonic says:

    I normally don’t post much that personal, but while we were very much looking forward to Thanksgiving, it appears that my son-in-law, who’s never exhibited any sort of issues of this sort, had some sort of break with reality. He’d left his home to stay with friends (along with my daughter) because he felt there was something unsafe there. This morning before dawn he left their house, along the way throwing away his wallet and keys because he thought he was being followed. Within a couple of hours, it being cold and windy, he found his way into a house to warm up. It wasn’t his house or that of anyone he knows. Police were called. Since he’s a middle-aged hetero white guy, they took him in without incident and he’s now in the psychiatric ward of a local hospital, where it happens that a mutual friend is a physician. In other words there’s a fairly robust support system here, he’s both a veteran and well-employed, so all this stuff will be covered, but it’s really fucking worrying. Now it looks as if we may be going there tomorrow (it’s four hours away) and plans for family to come to our home for the holiday are on indefinite hold.

    I have no experience dealing with any of this kind of stuff.

    Sorry to interrupt everyone’s shitting-on-Trump session.

  134. 134
    Chris says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I read Hannah Arendt for the first time about seven years ago, when the teabagger lunacy was in full rise and I was looking outside of mainline U.S. politics for descriptions of such phenomena. A lot of what she wrote fit then, and fits now.

  135. 135
    Elizabelle says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Wow. I am glad your son in law is safe and in care.

    Uncharted waters. My best to you.

  136. 136
    Louise B. says:

    His supporters won’t care about a decision not to prosecute. The number one priority of much of the “lock her up” crowd is to piss off the liberals. Trump is continuing to accomplish that goal with his antics.

  137. 137
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    That is really really troubling. I’m terribly sad for your family – I feel like a lot of people are challenged by high expectations from family and friends this time of year, and things are feeling like they’re falling apart. I hope he’s able to get the help he needs.

  138. 138
    Chris says:

    Trump disavows alt-right. And so… the process in which the earliest, least respectable, populist/fringe supporters of the fascist regime are discarded in order to make him look “respectable” to his new BFFs in the upper and middle classes begins.

    Cheer up, goose-steppers. This is a lot better than the Night of the Long Knives.

  139. 139

    @Gin & Tonic: Oh wow. Thank goodness he has support and treatment.

  140. 140
    pat says:

    I refer to him as scumbag. I refuse to use his name.

  141. 141
    Kay says:

    You know, this is a lie:

    Maggie Haberman ‏@maggieNYT 2h2 hours ago
    “I think it would be very very divisive for the country,” Trump says about prosecuting the Clintons.

    Donald Trump can’t “prosecute” the Clintons. They just totally accept his premise and they have now misled everyone in the country, implying that the Clintons were about to be prosecuted and that Donald Trump can prosecute his political opponents.

    He can’t. The President can’t “prosecute” people. Words mean things! Especially these words!

    I know political media like nothing better than a day spent piling on Hillary Clinton but they have now misled the entire country on this.

  142. 142
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay:

    It’s Chinatown The Fucking New York Times, Jake.

  143. 143
    hovercraft says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    They were awful:

    Coulter proudly claims membership in the small band of what she calls “blond right-wing pundits”……
    Having catapulted herself into the television ranks of other blond conservatives (Laura Ingraham, Kellyanne Fitzpatrick, Barbara Olson), Coulter left the Senate to write a column for Human Events and litigate cases for the Center for Individual Rights.

    If Kellyanne Conway looks familiar, it’s because she was one of chorus of media types and GOP activists — all of whom happened to have blond hair — who turned their daily spittle-spewing bile about the Clintons in the 1990s into lucrative careers up through today. In addition to Conway, whose name was Kellyanne Fitzpatrick then, the other Clinton-hating blonds were MSNBC host Chris Matthews (who has since had a change of heart), Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and Barbara Olson.

    Barbara Olson, who wrote two anti-Clinton books, died in the plane that hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Her husband Ted Olson was the lawyer for George W. Bush in the landmark Bush v. Gore case in 2000 in which the Supreme Court selected Bush over Vice Pres. Al Gore to be president.

    These people play the long game. We need to start doing that, we can’t just wait for the demographics to kick in, or we’ll be taking control of nothing but an empty husk of a nation.

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Oh dear gods, really? How did I manage to miss that, I wonder?

    By avoiding the media or by only venturing to a few safe spaces. I missed that one too.

    ETA: I love that Tweety is in there as one of the Clinton hating blondes. HA!

  144. 144
    Another Scott says:

    @Gin & Tonic: :-( I’m glad he was able to get help, as late as it was.

    Best wishes to you and all of your family in the hours and days ahead. Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  145. 145
  146. 146
    Emma says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Oh lord. I am so sorry. I’m glad you’ll be there for him and your daughter.

  147. 147
    Elizabelle says:

    @hovercraft:

    buried the lede there, Ms. Hover.

    the other Clinton-hating blonds were MSNBC host Chris Matthews (who has since had a change of heart)

    Really? I find Matthews toxic. Knew about his past career as legislative aide to Tip O’Neill. Had no idea he was a blond Clinton hater.

  148. 148
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Well, Peckem, I gotta admit I should have expected that. Jerks rarely apologize for being jerks.

  149. 149
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @piratedan:

    you might try the distraction gambit… a blanket to lay upon and a rawhide to chew….

    Oh, I though you were giving advice on how to cope with the election outcome. Just might work.

  150. 150
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Obama is killin it on MSNBC and here

    Hilarious — Natural born comedian.

    eta: even the normally stoic military aides can’t help cracking up.

  151. 151
    david richey says:

    Listening to Presidential Medal of Freedom awards, one of whom is Lorne Michaels. Occurs to me one of the best and most surprising post-presidential roles Obama could play is as a writer for SNL. Man’s funny as fuck and incisive as hell. Think, given the Cat5 shit-show we got coming down the pike, the elevation of glancing oblique parody to genuine bullseye satire would prove a national service.

    Also: Betty, I had the very same reaction, first to the Donald’s “decision” not to pursue what ain’t his to fucking decide, and second, to KellyAnne’s treacly sneering attempt to pawn off alla demagoguic deranged ugly mob hysteria as magnanimous noblesse oblige. It’s excruciating to watch.

  152. 152
    jk says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Puke stain Chris Matthews is a daily crime against broadcast journalism.

    Want to Boycott Trump? There’s an App For That:

    The Democratic Coalition Against Trump, an arm of the Super PAC Keep America Great PAC has already set up a #BoycottTrump app listing all the businesses with ties to President-elect Donald Trump.

    Here’s the description from the iTunes app page:

    Created by the Democratic Coalition Against Trump, Boycott Trump is the first app of its kind, allowing users to hit Trump where it hurts most – his wallet. Search through over 250 companies and people to see they’re directly connected to Trump. Make Trump and his allies pay, literally, for their hateful rhetoric and regressive policies. Use consumer action to take a stand for what’s right!

    We all know how Trump Towers and Trump Steaks are connected to Trump, but did you know Home Depot, Nike, Coors Light, Gucci, and many other major companies can all be directly linked to him as well? Find out how!

    h/t http://www.mediaite.com/online.....s-to-trump

  153. 153
    Mary G says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: There’s so much shit being flung that it’s impossible to keep up with it all.

  154. 154
    Elizabelle says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: thanks for the heads up don’t want to miss last of PBO’s appearances because am boycotting the idiot box.

    Ellen Degeneres up now for medal.

  155. 155
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Gin & Tonic: God, how scary. Sorry. Hope he recovers fully and soon.

  156. 156
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Thanks for the good wishes, folks. I think we’re going to need them. Sometimes life really hands you a shit sandwich.

  157. 157
    hovercraft says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I’m so sorry for this, it’s hard at any time, but especially during the holidays. I’m glad he was taken in without incident, and that he is well insured, that’s one less thing to worry about, t it’s still a lot to deal with for your family. I hope his condition improves soon, and that he gets all the help he needs. Your daughter(?) is fortunate to have you there to provide support. Take care of yourself and your family.

  158. 158
    Betty Cracker says:

    @kdaug: Hilarious. Do you know its origin?

  159. 159
    Elizabelle says:

    Ellen with tears in her eyes.

  160. 160
    Kay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    This wouldn’t be fair treatment of anyone.

    The clear implication of this is she committed a crime and Donald Trump is graciously allowing her to go free.

    That’s not fair. It’s not what happened and Hillary Clinton can’t defend herself from this smear. There’s no way to defend because it’s all smoke and bullshit and wink-wink, nod-nod.

    But he pulled it off. And they let him.

  161. 161
  162. 162

    @Elizabelle: you can watch it in its entirety, later, at this Youtube link

  163. 163
    Elizabelle says:

    And fucking MSNBC running a crawl about Trump not prosecuting Clinton for the email server.

    Fuck fucking MSNBC.

    That criminal, Hillary Clinton. Criminal. Should be prosecuted. Maybe execute her.

    Unless the Great and Merciful All-Trump intercedes.

    The Gateses up now for medals.

  164. 164
    Brachiator says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I have no experience dealing with any of this kind of stuff.

    I know that this has got to be a hard blow. It is good if you have a good support system in the area. Obviously, you want to check with mental health professionals, and also see what level of related medical help is provided by the employer.

    It’s hard to give long distance practical advice. One thing to hope for/watch for, is that a proper diagnosis be made. Sometimes the health staff involved will not or cannot disclose information to you (but should be able to talk to the spouse). If any medications are being given, you will want to know what those are, and to make sure that they are appropriate.

    And if you have support for yourself, friends, religious advisors, whoever, just to help you as you deal with this.

    I hope this helps a bit. Take care.

  165. 165
    Elizabelle says:

    And if PBO can award Medals of Honor posthumously, where is Dr. Seuss’s?

    He did a lot for literature. Charmingly. The great Theodore Geisel.

  166. 166
    Kay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Why are they asking about this anyway? Clinton LOST and we’re still talking about the crimes Trump and media accused her of every day of the campaign?

    The fake crimes to go along with the fake news?

  167. 167

    Bizarre election behavior is still coming to light in NC. Appeals are currently before the State Board of Elections, and today it was revealed that the challenges to many voters’ eligibility came straight from a board member. Another member complained about the amount of her precious time this was take because the Democrat talked too long.

  168. 168
    Elizabelle says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Thank you. Will do so.

    Now Thomas J. Hanks.

    The national dads in chief, standing up there, beaming. Not taking it too seriously.

  169. 169
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    The Lewinski scandal is one of my earliest memories of political awareness. I was in sixth grade and living in Paris at the time. Even in another country and at our age, everyone knew about it. And nobody understood what the fuck was going on, and how you could possibly grind the business of government to a halt over who the president was consensually fucking.

    Not about Hillary, but CDS in general is like this. All smoke and no fire, no match, not even a fucking spark.

    (I still say all those eleven year olds had more sense than the American electorate, and a damn sight more than Official Washington).

  170. 170
    hovercraft says:

    @Elizabelle:
    I meant to comment initially, but got distracted, I did add it at the end.
    Tweety comes from a republican Irish home, he says his brothers are republicans, but suspects his mother always quietly voted for democrats, cancelling out his fathers votes. I think he’s basically anti-abortion, but since he’s a nominal democrat, says he’s pro-choice, but as far as I can tell has never heard of an unreasonable restriction. He’s anti immigration, anti trade, and thinks Obama has been too liberal and confrontational with republicans. So basically he’s Joe Manchin.

  171. 171

    @Gin & Tonic: very sorry to hear about that.

    These things can be long and trying, but just remember mental illness is a physical thing & it’s not anybody’s fault. That helps me when people I know go through this sort of thing. Maybe you can take solace there.

  172. 172
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay: I’m glad you are not putting up with the normalizing shit.

  173. 173
    Kay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Trump not prosecuting Clinton

    It’s “true” now I guess. It IS up to the President whether or not to prosecute his political enemies.

    This is active disinformation. They’re misleading people.

  174. 174

    @Elizabelle: That’s a good point. He could have award it to Maurice Sendak as well, considering he’s on record (link) saying “Where the Wild Things Are” is his favorite book.

  175. 175
    Mnemosyne says:

    @hovercraft:

    My only regret about Barbara Olsen’s death is that she took so many innocent people with her. Ted Olsen actually became less of an asshole once she was gone — wasn’t he one of the lead attorneys on the case that got gay marriage legalized?

  176. 176

    @Chris: mine as well, we must be around the same age. My parents were tickled when they tried explaining it to me and I said “wait, so… the president got a blowjob? And… so what?”

  177. 177
    gogol's wife says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m so sorry! I hope things work out.

  178. 178
    hovercraft says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Yes he and David Bosse (sic), Gore’s attorney teamed up to help bring about marriage equality. Still doesn’t make up for Shrub, but it’s a start.

    ETA: They argued against Prop 8

  179. 179
    Peale says:

    @Kay: Yep. Those Clintons…always getting away with those things. How much do you want to bet that anyone the Dems run in 2010 who Hillary sent an e-mail to will become the “known associate” of “criminal Clinton.”

  180. 180
    Elizabelle says:

    Newt Minow.

    The vast wasteland of television. Brought us a fake ass “successful businessman” reality show TV star for president-elect. Lucky USA!

  181. 181
    Mary G says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Best to him and your whole family. This reminds us of what’s really important.

  182. 182
    Kay says:

    “I don’t want to hurt them,” he told 60 Minutes earlier this month.
    The personal desires of the President, his mercy, is irrelevant to this kind of decision. Either there is something to investigate or there’s not – and a lengthy investigation that came up with nothing to prosecute suggests there isn’t anything. This isn’t the Colosseum where everyone waits on the Emperor’s thumbs up or down. America is not a place where those who lose elections live freely at the sufferance of the victors. This is certainly better than Trump trying to jail Clinton as he promised, but only so much. What if Hillary Clinton becomes an outspoken critic of President Trump? Does he reconsider? None of this is normal. This is how strongmen talk.

    I know it doesn’t matter. The story is now that Donald Trump chose to show Hillary Clinton mercy and not prosecute her for unspecified, general crimes.

    But it’s wrong. The whole thing is wrong- it’s incorrect and it’s also wrong because it’s unfair to Clinton or any person.

    The worst part is Clinton can’t defend herself from the smear. She’s listening to this, she knows exactly what Trump is doing and she can’t defend or she’ll sound ridiculous because they never overtly accused her of anything- they just went right to declining to prosecute.

  183. 183
    SenyorDave says:

    So now networks are saying that Trump won’t prosecute Clinton. Do they actually have anyone on staff who understands the function of the POTUS? It sounds like they think Trump is a prosecuter who is declining to prosecute a criminal.

    Maybe Eric Schneiderman, the NY AG, should release a statement that he will decline to prosecute Trump in his charity fraud case. Because that truly would be a case of a prosecuter declining to prosecute, not a president-elect blowing smoke up everyone’s ass (and succeeding). This is effin amazing that it won’t be a story:

    Trump’s charity admits to violating IRS self-dealing ban

    It was the PRESIDENT-ELECT who violated the ban. HE STOLE FROM HIS OWN CHARITY!

    Amazingly enough, the Eric Trump Foundation is even worse. They seem to be 100% phony.

  184. 184
    liberal says:

    @hovercraft: His only redeeming quality is that he was actually against the invasion of Iraq.

  185. 185
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Yikes! It’s good that he’s a veteran. IANAMD, but if depression or other mood disorders go untreated long enough, a person can develop psychosis. It’s always a shock because the person seemed to be coping okay from the outside when they really weren’t. Hopefully he will find good doctors and therapists who can help him work through it.

  186. 186

    Just thinking Obama should have awarded the MOF to Cher just to see what she would have wore to the ceremony (obviously, something mind blowing).

  187. 187
    Kay says:

    @SenyorDave:

    They fucked it all up and now the whole country will believe Donald Trump pardoned Hillary Clinton.

    It’s outrageous, that they’re doing this to her and it’s also outrageous that they let him get away with such an obvious lie and smear.

  188. 188
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Kay: Obama ought to pardon her and when asked be like “well I don’t trust that guy. He’s a big liar.” Or not.

  189. 189
    liberal says:

    @SenyorDave: she also did that Nazi salute to Drumpf at the convention.

  190. 190
    The Moar You Know says:

    I have no experience dealing with any of this kind of stuff.

    @Gin & Tonic: I have some. He’s in about the best position possible, but it’s not a good situation.

    Things to check in this order:

    1. Full physical workup. At his age, cancer/stroke/TIA needs to be ruled out first.
    2. Full tox workup. Make sure there’s no drugs involved. That includes weed.
    3. The long haul. He’ll need sedation probably for a bit, but don’t let them sedate him until he’s a zombie and then kick him out and say “problem solved”. That he has a physician on staff who is a friend is a godsend and should pretty much insure that won’t happen.

    Hard to see it, but you have a lot to be thankful for. People in his position usually end up on the wrong end of cops these days.

    Good luck.

  191. 191
    liberal says:

    @Mnemosyne: Sadly, if I had to pick a diagnosis from afar, I’d pick schizophrenia in this case.

  192. 192
    Pat B says:

    @hueyplong: I three, hovercraft. Voice is almost as bad as the content of her whining.

  193. 193
    Kay says:

    @SenyorDave:

    president-elect blowing smoke up everyone’s ass (and succeeding).

    Yup. They all repeated the bullshit so many times it is now true.

    They investigated, tried, and convicted her today and then told the country Trump graciously let her off the hook.

    Every word is bullshit. All of it. The entire premise is false.

  194. 194
    Davebo says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    At all costs, avoid involuntary commitment. Trust me, I’ve been through that with a loved one who experienced the exact same symptoms.

    In other words, get him a lawyer ASAP.

  195. 195
    Shalimar says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: First thing that occurred to me too. Trump thinks all the countries will have new ambassadors to the US because there is a new administration. After all, Priebus has already told him that he has to appoint new ambassadors to all the countries.

  196. 196
    Kay says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    They’re probably all enjoying this character assassination but wait until this sleazy talk show host goes after them. Then it won’t be so funny.

  197. 197
    Janelle says:

    @aimai: Not to mention, I’m not sure I would even want to see him impeached, given who would be waiting in the wings to move into the Oval Office should that happen. President-elect Stormfront is not a smart man, but his choice of Mike Pence to be his Veep was a smart way to dampen enthusiasm on the left over the prospect of his impeachment. Has a very similar feel as Bush’s selection of Darth Cheney to be his #2 to keep liberals from wanting to see him impeached back in his awful time at 1600 Penn.

  198. 198
    Chris says:

    @Shalimar:

    Fits with his navel-gazing view of self, too. The world revolves around him, doncha know.

  199. 199
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay: Are they (journalists) really that stupid and/or cynical? How much of it is that they are not qualified for their jobs (or at least, their jobs as we knew them to be maybe 30 years ago) and how much is kowtowing to the publishers?

    I was shocked to hear that quote from Dean Baquet today. About how they weren’t any harder on Trump than on Clinton. He should be fired. Quickly. Appalling news judgment.

  200. 200
    joel hanes says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the National Basketball Association’s all-time leading scorer

    … and a damn fine co-pilot

  201. 201
    Joyce H says:

    @Gravenstone:

    An audit confirming shenanigans and overturning the current EC victory of Hair Furor would cause the late stage civil war (1861-2016) to escalate into a full blown shooting war again. The neo-nazis would be subdued in time, but the body count would not be pretty in that interim.

    I think we should be glad to accept that. Because I think it a more hopeful scenario for the cause of civilization if the neo-nazis and the klan are rampaging AGAINST the president than if they were rampaging in SUPPORT of the president.

    As for the talk upthread about impeachment, I agree that it’s probably not going to happen. But what I DO expect, and give better than even odds on, is that Trump will crack up. Look at him, listen to him. He’s always been on pretty shaky ground mentally, and now to him the unimaginable is happening. He’s going to be president – and people are STILL criticizing him and laughing at him! You know that in that magical imagination of his, he was stone cold certain that if he could just be elected to the presidency, nobody could ever do that again, everyone would have to be polite, groveling even, and praise and admire him. How he could believe such a thing while living in the world we live in and seeing the way the public and the media talks about our presidents is difficult for a normal person to understand, but he’s not a normal person.

  202. 202
    WereBear says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m so sorry to hear such upsetting news.

    Hope there’s room for hope as things unroll.

  203. 203
    John Revolta says:

    The Attorney General is nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Under the circumstances, saying that Trump “doesn’t have the power” to put Hillary on trial is wasting oxygen (or pixels).

  204. 204
    Janelle says:

    @liberal:

    I’m pretty sure you meant David Boies. David Bossie is the asshole president of Citizens United, the wingnut organization behind the catastrophically awful SCOTUS ruling of the same name.

  205. 205
    Chris says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Are they (journalists) really that stupid and/or cynical? How much of it is that they are not qualified for their jobs (or at least, their jobs as we knew them to be maybe 30 years ago) and how much is kowtowing to the publishers?

    It doesn’t have to be either/or. After thirty years of learning just how much you can get by kowtowing to the publishers and to the Washington elites, lots of them probably don’t even bother to learn how to do “their jobs” anymore. What would be the point?

  206. 206
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Hmm I noticed that the Yahoo news thing fliped from all Trumptastic to showing pretty bad pictures of Trump with pretty negative headlines. Push back for that Trump rant at the press yesterday?

  207. 207
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: You left out Barbara Olson.

  208. 208
    notoriousJRT says:

    Thank you for this, Betty. You have expressed my feeling. I hope karma ensnares Ms. Conway in way that is delicious in its cruelty.

  209. 209
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: Neither MA nor RI.

    And thanks again to those who’ve offered good wishes and advice. Appropriate protocols are being followed, tests are being conducted. Another mutual friend, an attorney licensed in that state, has been contacted. We are trying to be hopeful.

    I’ll probably be away for a while. Wishing everyone a cheerful Thanksgiving.

  210. 210
    Chris says:

    @Joyce H:

    Because I think it a more hopeful scenario for the cause of civilization if the neo-nazis and the klan are rampaging AGAINST the president than if they were rampaging in SUPPORT of the president.

    Something I realized after the election: while I’d never really considered it likely, my worst-case-scenario for the future of America used to be another civil war (right wing rebelling against a government they couldn’t get elected to democratically anymore).

    Impossibly, my worst case scenario’s actually gotten worse since November 8th. Large-scale nationwide violence in America with a right wing government in power isn’t called a civil war. It’s called a pogrom.

  211. 211
    notoriousJRT says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Life is too short to spend another moment of it listening to Kellyanne Conway.
    I plan to go four years with no video /audio news for the coming administration. I will read about Sauron and his minions but I won’t listen to or watch them.

  212. 212
    notoriousJRT says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Don’t forget Barbara Olsen RIP(iss).

  213. 213
    Kay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    They’re all Breitbart now:

    Breitbart calls Trump not pursuing charges against Clinton a “broken promise”

    Donald Trump held an interview with the NYTimes where they spent much of the time helping him launch a new smear against Hillary Clinton.

    I really wonder if it has anything to do with the NY real estate Trump owns. There has to be an explanation beyond “he fooled us again!” This has to be deliberate, right?

  214. 214
    SenyorDave says:

    @Chris: Impossibly, my worst case scenario’s actually gotten worse since November 8th. Large-scale nationwide violence in America with a right wing government in power isn’t called a civil war. It’s called a pogrom.

    Ordinarily I would disagree, but not anymore. As a Jew I was disgusted by the number of Jews who voted for Trump despite the alt right connections. Kapo is a terrible thing to call someone, but a Jewish Trump supporter fits the bill.

  215. 215
    jk says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Are they (journalists) really that stupid and/or cynical?

    These “journalists” are a bunch of cowering, bed wetting dummies who are afraid of their own shadows.

  216. 216
    glory b says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Hoping for the best in a difficult situation, and as good a holiday as you can have.

  217. 217
    gogol's wife says:

    @John Revolta:

    Yeah, I think we really have to start keeping our emotions in check a bit more. I simply can’t live in a constant state of outrage. We have to be able to be strong when it matters. It’s draining to get b.p. spikes every few minutes.

  218. 218
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @joel hanes: You tell your old man to try dragging Bill Walton up and down the court for forty-eight minutes.

  219. 219
    Mnemosyne says:

    @liberal:

    Recent studies have been finding that schizophrenia has been vastly overdiagnosed in the past, particularly in African-American and other minority men (note: I can’t remember the race of G&T’s son-in-law) and that other mood disorders can develop psychotic features. People with other mood disorders — particularly major depression and bipolar disorder — who develop psychosis can be misdiagnosed and treated incorrectly if doctors aren’t careful.

    BellaQ can probably go into even more detail because she’s very active in advocacy right now, but misdiagnosis is a potential problem for most mental illnesses, unfortunately.

  220. 220
    notoriousJRT says:

    @bemused:
    Land of the free, home of the brave, baby!

  221. 221

    @Elizabelle: I always turn Conway off. She’s not going to give me any news. As a matter of fact, what comes out of her mouth is anti-news.

  222. 222
    D58826 says:

    CW seems to be that Mittens has the inside track for State. According to a tweet from der Fuhrer Mittens is desperate for the job. Now Mitten came out of 2012 with his reputation largely intact (for a presidential candidate) and certainly seemed like he was taking a principled stand earlier in the year when he ripped into Trump and refused to get on the bandwagon.

    Now why at this point in his life is he willing to publicly suck the much discussed little appendage of old little hands? Is he that greedy for more money? Does he figure it will boost his sons political careers (probably will and no one will remember that he is a quisling)? Maybe he is just into public humiliation?

    That really is the saddest thing of all watching people (not Rudy or Newt, they have no reputation) line up to kiss his ring and burn their reputations in the process. But the good Germans made peace with Hitler so I guess the good Americans will do the same with der Fuhrer

  223. 223
    Chris says:

    @D58826:

    I thought in 2008, in 2012, and still today that Ovenmitt was a vulture capitalist scumbag who had no place in the White House or anywhere in high office. But he’s definitely the least bad of the picks that were being mentioned. Unlike Rudy Giuliani, he’s at least lived abroad once. Unlike Newt Gingrich, he hasn’t written a thesis gushing over how wonderful Belgian colonialism was for the Congo. And unlike John Bolton, he’s not John Bolton.

  224. 224
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @D58826: I think some of these people might be willing to get on board because Trump is so obviously scattered, distracted, undisciplined, and over his head that they could end up as one of handful of more-or-less independent president-lets.

  225. 225
    D58826 says:

    @Chris: Oh I’m totally disagree with his business practices and his politics. But he is no different that a very wide segment of our business/political leaders. But he is not the nightmare that Trump is and why he would burn his reputation just for the thankless and in a Trump admin. powerless job of Sec. of State is beyond me. If he thinks he can influence Trump then he is crazier than Trump

  226. 226
    D58826 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Could be and that is a frightening though. A doz. free lancing mini-me presidents.

  227. 227
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @D58826: It’s entirely possible that Mitt is considering the job out of patriotism, doing what he can to prevent Trump from completely destroying international relations. You never know.

  228. 228
    Chris says:

    @D58826:

    I suspect, having resigned himself to the fact that the presidency will never be his, he’s reaching for relevance/importance this way instead.

  229. 229
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @D58826: I wouldn’t trust any news of “nominations for positions” from ShitGibbon until they’re submitted to the Senate.

  230. 230
    D58826 says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Maybe but I can’t see Trump giving him any real power. Kissinger ran Nixon’s foreign polcy from the WH. Nothing changed when he became Sec. of State.

    @Chris: Also maybe. But unless der Fuhrer turns out a lot better than anyone thinks, historians (assuming they are free to write) will not deal kindly with these men/women. Vichy/Quesling have come down thru history as curse words. Whatever hope they had of preventing someone worse failed miserably at the time and history has not reversed it’s judgment.

  231. 231
    D58826 says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: also true. Given the events of the past 18 months we all know what CW is worth.

  232. 232
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @joel hanes: Obama actually riffed about “Airplane”, using the Walton and Lainer line and saying we have great actors here today, Hanks, De Niro, and Roger Murdock.

  233. 233
    D58826 says:

    And to finish off a truly bad year – according to Disney world Courage the turkey that Obama pardoned in 2009 has died.

  234. 234
    Keith G says:

    If you have not seen this statement by Bill De Blasio, do so. Pull your chair back as it will make it easier to stand and cheer.

  235. 235
    Anonymous patient says:

    @Gravenstone:

    I think the body count is going to be pretty high no matter how the flash point is reached.

  236. 236
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Keith G:

    That. Is. Awesome. (I don’t like using “awesome,” but sometimes it seems the most appropriate word.)

    Thanks for posting. I lived in NYC when John V. Lindsay was mayor. De Blasio makes me want to move back there.

  237. 237
    D58826 says:

    Evil flourishes when good people remain silent. That is one good man who is NOT remaining silent

  238. 238
    Chris says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Can’t watch, but from what I read in the news, well fucking said.

  239. 239
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    You are probably long gone by now, but I wanted to add my own words of sympathy for what you and your family are going through, and best wishes for a good outcome. Whoever said up thread that these kinds of things are much worse at holidays was right — except to note that one way or another there’s some kind of holiday every few weeks (or a birthday or anniversary or something), so there will always be heightened emotions around whatever event it may be when there’s been a personal or family crisis.

    Sending you and your S.I.L. my very best thoughts.

  240. 240
    Baud says:

    @Keith G: Thanks, Keith. I was just in New York. Saw a bunch of good, friendly people. This clip was nice to see.

  241. 241
    J R in WV says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Sorry to hear about your troubles. No one ever has experience with this kind of thing, it’s always different, different people on all sides of the problem.

    Stay calm yourself, try to keep other folks calm too. Best of luck!

  242. 242
    debbie says:

    @Keith G:

    Love it! Love it even more because it will piss off Rudi and the FOP even more than it will Trump. I’d like to see them set up a sanctuary center across the street from Trump Tower.

  243. 243
    debbie says:

    @Chris:

    Oh, please. He’ll take them back before long.

  244. 244
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Hey, Kay, I saw your comments about O’Neill. I like him now: He advised Ohio Dems to quit the party after they picked Strickland over Sittenfeld. My new hero!

  245. 245
    Chris says:

    @debbie:

    I mean, he’s got their head honcho picked out as one of his top White House advisers, and that guy ain’t going anywhere.

    (It is true, though, that the arc of fascism usually involves starting in the lower middle classes and then, as it gains respectability, discarding its early supporters for the new, wealthier, more established people).

  246. 246
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Chris:

    Hope you can watch at some point. It’s not long, but it is very powerful.

  247. 247
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @D58826:

    Aww.

    I’m going to miss Obama’s turkey-pardonings. Especially the exaggerated eye-rolling from Malia and Sasha :-)

  248. 248
    debbie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I hope this resolves itself soon. Good luck to you and all of your family, especially your daughter.

  249. 249
    gogol's wife says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’m hanging to that sliver of hope. I don’t think Romney is all bad.

  250. 250
    debbie says:

    @D58826:

    The idea that a businessman could be Secretary of State is absurd. Period. There is nothing in Mitt’s history that shows a knack for diplomacy.

  251. 251
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @D58826: 2016!

  252. 252
    Turgidson says:

    @D58826:

    I have absolutely nothing nice to say about the months-long puke funnel of lies and cruelty that he called a presidential campaign in 2012, but I suspect that Willard Mitt “Mittens” Romney is considering taking a job in Hair Furor’s administration out of a sense of noblesse oblige. I think he ran for president out of the same sense of duty.

    It is…problematic…to say the least that his idea of patriotic service in 2012 was to use the presidency strip the welfare state to the bone, slash tax rates on the wealthy, prevent millions of people from the chance to get health insurance, and cut the Pentagon a blank check. And his willingness to say shit that a 2-second Google search could show was total bullshit was truly a hideous spectacle that I had hoped his defeat would discredit. Boy oh boy was I wrong about that.

    Anyway, I think Willard Mitt “Mittens” Romney is about as good a choice for a Trump cabinet as we can hope to get, as long as he’s not nominated for Treasury Secretary. He thinks of himself and generally carries himself like a serious, competent person. That alone makes him a better candidate for SecState than anyone else we’ve heard mentioned – most notably Mayor 9/11 and John “Yosemite Sam WIthout the Self-Restraint” Bolton.

  253. 253
    D58826 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Especially the exaggerated eye-rolling from Malia and Sasha :-)

    Yes they have gone above and beyond the call of duty in dealing with Dad:-) :-)

  254. 254
    Vhh says:

    @low-tech cyclist: The idiots in Kentucky voted in a governor who promised to kill the Kinect Obamacare network and rescind Medicaid expansion and are now griping because they got what they voted for. I say fuck em. And when red states come moaning for flood relief, esp. due to sea rise,I’ll laugh and say fuck em. As for the hourly workers who voted in the guys who will torpedo their overtime, again I say, fuck em. I make just enough money that the GOP tax cuts will give me a few thou while screwing a lot of Trump voters,so I’ll take the money and say fuck em. Only way they will learn.

  255. 255
    Vhh says:

    @low-tech cyclist: The idiots in Kentucky voted in a governor who promised to kill the Kinect Obamacare network and rescind Medicaid expansion and are now griping because they got what they voted for. I say fuck em. And when red states come moaning for flood relief, esp.fue to sea rise,I’ll laugh and say fuck em. As for the hourly workers white in the guys who will torpedo their overtime, again I say, fuck em. I make just enough money that the GOP tax cuts will give me a few thou while screwing a lot of Trump voters,so I’ll take the money and say fuck em. Only way they will learn.

  256. 256
    Colleeniem says:

    @Kay: Can I tell you how much your comments are helping clarifying things for me? I just want to let you know it’s appreciated and it’s bolstering me in combatting anti-democratic ideals. People do not realize how close to the abyss they truly are.

  257. 257
    Uncle Jeffy says:

    @Major Major Major Major: when you say “probably”, I think that means you’re not assuming any facts.

  258. 258
  259. 259
    Fuzzy Kisser says:

    Re: “S-G” I’ve been looking for a good place to start this alternative. The Donald should have the initials P.G. affixed, wherever he is referred to – of course this can be spelled out in full or partially with the full Pussy Grabber.

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