There’s some evidence that we’re facing a government headed by an outrageously unqualified shit-gibbon who will be controlled through flattery and gaslights by a cabal of bible-humping, social program-slashing, regressive tax cut-advocating Republican pols to enact a Kansas-like economic and social governing blueprint. That would be disastrous for obvious reasons.
There’s also some evidence that we’re facing a government headed by an outrageously unqualified shit-gibbon who will be controlled through flattery and gaslights to implement an authoritarian kleptocracy aligned with white nationalist movements in Europe and resembling Putin’s Russia. Even more disastrous.
Or maybe Team Shit-Gibbon will manage to exceed expectations and create a hybrid of the two — lord knows the Republicans in Congress won’t stop them, not with the prospect of adding federal levers of power to the state levers that have successfully suppressed millions of votes. Karl Rove’s dream of a permanent Republican majority could come true at last, with suppressing and smearing conducted via federal agencies ensuring that dumb-as-dirt, compliant cocksplats like Steve King and Louie Gohmert can enable Trump, his spawn and vile hangers-on to loot the Treasury in perpetuity in exchange for hereditary seats in Congress.
Regardless of which reality shakes out of the chaos of the shit-gibbon transition shit-show, it’s incumbent upon us to bear witness to things that are not normal. Joshua Foust, former security analyst and current national security fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, compiled a list of not normal things yesterday. It’s so long I’m going to put it below the fold.
• Using your Presidential transition website to promote your own business properties is not normal.
• Calling for millions of federal employees to sign nondisclosure agreements apart from standard government forms is not normal.
• Blasting journalists with product placements for the labels your child, who is on your transition team, is wearing is not normal.
• Having a wide range of senior figures in your own political party distance themselves from your transition team, citing the profound irregularity of it and worrying about future ugliness, is not normal.
• Placing your children in charge of your business empire, then placing them on your transition team, then seeking top secret security clearances for them, is not normal. The conflicts of interest that this represents are almost too many to count, but at a basic level: you do not give someone with a financial interest to work against U.S. policy access to sensitive information — at all, ever.
• Putting one’s children into senior positions of a government is the behavior of a banana republic, not a constitutional democracy with strong institutions. This is not normal.
• For a president who ran on his business acumen to refuse to disclose his taxes to the public, which in turn denies anyone the ability to see if financial conflicts of interest are driving his policy decisions, is not normal.
• Asking if he can decline the President’s salary, so as to avoid paying taxes, is not normal.
• Owing hundreds of millions of dollars in business debt to a foreign bank and refusing to fully divest yourself from those finances is not normal.
• Ascending to the White House while your eldest son, who is also on your transition team, and for whom you also seek a top-secret clearance, seeks out seven-digit business deals in Russia, is not normal. When Russia then names the President elect an “honorary Cossack,” it is not normal.
• Asking a hostile foreign intelligence agency to hack into the emails of your opponent in the campaign is not normal. Refusing to comment while they expand those hacks into other institutions is not normal. Watching that same government’s propaganda network dramatically change its tone in order to benefit the incoming president is not normal. That this foreign government is also the subject of numerous investigations into the President elect’s improper business conduct is not normal.
• Threatening to cut off Europe from NATO if payment is not received, like a gangster demanding protection money, in a way that benefits said foreign government, is not normal.
• Chanting for the summary imprisonment of your political opponent despite repeated conclusions that she has committed no crime is not normal. Refusing to back down from that call to summarily imprison her is not normal. Essentially suggesting a show trial before you’ve even assumed office is not normal.
• Hiring an avowed white supremacist and proud antisemite to be the chief of strategy at the White House is not normal. That the new White House chief strategist has bragged, openly, of his desire to destroy the United States is not normal. That the cofounder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center raised money for this is not normal.
• Staff participating in authoritarian victim-blaming and antisemitic conspiracism is not normal. Collaborating with cable news channels in that antisemitic conspiracy about protests is not normal.
• When one of the new administration’s most senior proxies and spokesmen calmly discusses committing war crimes in the Middle East, it is not normal. When he is shortlisted for the Department of State — despite lobbying for terrorists who killed Americans, despotic regimes in the Middle East, and the tyrannical government of Venezuela — it is not normal.
• When that proxy is simply following in the footsteps of the new President-elect, who has called for reinstating torture and summarily executing the families of alleged terrorists, it is not normal.
• The leading candidate for the department of education (who himself has no background as an educator or in education policy) openly suggesting to censor speech on universities is not normal. Nominating an oil executive as the Secretary of the Interior is not normal. Nominating a climate change denialist funded by the oil industry to run the EPA is not normal. When the leading candidate for Defense Secretary having a long history of openly racist comments toward his own staff it is not normal.
• The FBI intervening decisively in the last week of the election to alter its outcome for one candidate is not normal. But the FBI refusing to address the president elect’s violation of sanctions against a communist country is also not normal.
• When a woman accuses a presidential candidate of having raped her as a child, but then refuses to go forward with her allegations because of a barrage of death threats yet still receives almost no media coverage, it is not normal.
• It is not normal for a president-elect to have 75 pending lawsuits against him, ranging from business fraud to illegal hiring practices. It is not normal for his lawyers to demand those lawsuits be delayed until after his inauguration for not discernable reason other than to retreat behind the immunity of the office.
• Relentlessly attacking the legitimacy of the media (to be distinguished from criticizing media conduct) is not normal. Threatening to sue the media because you don’t like being criticized is not normal.
• Being so steeped in the language of fascism that you and and your staff mirror Hitler (“make the trains run on time“), appeasing Hitler (“America First“), or Mussolini (“drain the swamp“) is not normal.
Yeah, not normal. I would also add that a president-elect taking to Twitter to say that he totally would have won the popular vote if he’d wanted to and saying that his transition team IS SO organized and upbraiding the “failing @nytimes” in multiple tweets is also not normal. Nor is a president-elect so utterly clueless that his predecessor must provide remedial presidenting coursework for the good of the country.
What will today bring in “not normal”? I don’t know. But I created a “Not Normal” tag even though I am loathe to create tags (we have so goddamned many that wading through them to find appropriate ones is a chore). I have a feeling we’ll be using it. A lot.
Fair Economist
Wow, that’s quite a list!
Kay Eye
Word for today and for the next several years – kakistocracy. Assembled before our very eyes, ready to begin making their horrific mess on day 1.
Kakistocracy.
Mnemosyne
In case anyone knows (and is still speaking to) anyone who normally votes for the Democrat but didn’t vote for Hillary because she was just so corrupt, Kurt Eichenwald would like them to know that they fell for a con. Nice job, morons.
schrodinger's cat
Trump plans to immediately deport 3 million illegal immigrants, there aren’t that many foreign born people (legal or illegal) in the prison system, at most there are 1/10th of the number.
Kobach (possible AG) wants to create a Muslim registry
They want to put a moratorium on visitor visas for 25 countries including both India and China.
Cermet
And that list means absolutely nothing to the wealthy rubes that elected this small handed, dick head.
WereBear
Will it be so NOT NORMAL that some of his voters will catch on? Will the press continue to normalize this Combover Caligula?
donnah
Howsabout CNN publishing a new book, Unprecedented, about the election already? For profit.
disgusting
Poopyman
Damn.
Looks like a good time to take up knitting. At least I’ll have plenty of toasty outerwear for living in the coming hellscape.
piratedan
well…. we still don’t even know the outcome of the Trump University lawsuit yet. Are there any other lawsuits already in the pipeline? Does the DOJ actually bother to pursue further investigation into how the Florida and Texas investigations were followed? Do we see anyone investigating the FBI for their behavior?
How is it that no one news organization is working on connecting the dots between the Trump campaign and the hacking of the DCC? Of multiple US government agencies? Does anyone remember our President elect – standing at multiple podiums urging an agency to hack his political opponent and how can anyone not find both the request and the use of the information that was illegally obtained as something other than seditious?
I understand that IOKIYAR is a powerful thing but really, doesn’t anyone with any balls exist over there in the media trenches, much less a governmental prescence to say… gee, shouldn’t we look into this?
gratuitous
Don’t underestimate the power of the popular media and Republican assholes to make all of this and more look normal. These are the intellectual lilliputians, remember, who diverted us with an endless argument over whether torture is really torture.
Call it out as often as you can stomach it, puke, then call it out again.
cervantes
“Nominating an oil executive as the Secretary of the Interior is not normal. Nominating a climate change denialist funded by the oil industry to run the EPA is not normal.”
Actually these are pretty normal for Republican presidents. I agree the rest of the items are a bit over the edge.
The Moar You Know
@donnah: I know, at some point in the future, that it’s going to be found that CNN and Trump were collaborating directly all the way up until election eve. And that will include direct payments from CNN to Trump.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Apparently Trump also decided to screw Congress, he’s building the wall anyway.And how pray tell, is that to be done without funding?
Citizen_X
@Poopyman:
Or, at least, something to do at the public guillotinings.
cmorenc
Unfortunately, an essential part of our strategy for successfully getting through the next four years is to make sure Trump and the hard-right GOP greedily try to grab enough rope to hang themselves with, with enough of the electorate who ended up voting for him this time gladly helping with stringing them up. That strategy is going to require us to stay very strong and actively support each other through the difficult passage ahead, and insist the congressional dems give the GOP as much cooperation as the congressional GOP gave Obama.
Social security is the type of honeypot we can sting them to death, if we oppose it with fiery firm resolve and $pend some bucks on advertising the personal threat this poses to them or their families. So how do we cope with Ryan’s strategy of promising to keep the existing system for folks now over a certain age? Answer: if privatization with vouchers is such a better approach for everyone, why is there any need to preserve the current system for those over a designated age, and delay the real impacts?
Mnemosyne
I probably just irreparably pissed off my Trumper cousin, but when you respond to my asking if you’ll wear a safety pin by saying you’ll wear a cross, you get Anne Lamott:
D58826
In an earlier thread there was a discussion about over whither the Senate democrats could make tactical alliances with some of the GOP senators who didnot endorse Trump. With the news that Bernie is now part ofthe leadership team I think that possibility goes out the window. He will push his purity pony take over of the democratic party and any compromise with the GOP would be out of the question.
hovercraft
That to me is the saddest most pathetic thing of all, the Kenyan Muslim Socialist it’s upbraided for years has to teach it how to do it’s goddamn job because it’s that fucking clueless. It’s pathetic, it’s supporters are pathetic, and we are all screwed because these fucking morons are “economically anxious”, and they rejoice in their ignorance.
Gravenstone
@Kay Eye: It’s Kakocracy; rule by the worst people.And yes, that is that the incoming shitshow will represent in the truest sense of the phrase.
germy
Obama’s conference call with supporters
https://twitter.com/puppymnkey/status/798571120282587136/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Obama says he’s still fired up and ready to go. When he is a private citizen again, he’ll be working around the clock: “I know something about organizing.”
manyakitty
@Mnemosyne: Ooh, that’s good. Keeping it at the ready.
D58826
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Maybe it’s time to put some lipstick on that pig:
1. in the US it really will provide construction jobs so that’s a plus for our economy
2. in Mexico it will stimulate sales of ladders
3. also in Mexico it will stimulate the tunnel building industry
4. unfortunately for the Mexican human smugglers however it might well price them out of the market since the trip north will get much more expensive. For drug smugglers it will be business as usual and soaring profits.
I’m not sure which part of that is only snark
Betty Cracker
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Mexico will pay for it! [insert rolling eyes emoji here]
cmorenc
@D58826:
Bernie has a chance to make himself one of the two most crucially vital assets the democratic party has – he can explain what’s happening and motivate the millennial generation to see through and get involved to oppose Trump’s bullshit. Bernie can also reach some of the WWC and independents who become disillusioned with Trump. I can’t think of anyone else in the Democratic party who has this kind of persuasive power to reach especially the millennials and even many of the next older generation, and also enough of a sliver of the WWC and independents to make a crucial difference in 2018 and especially 2020. The other is Elizabeth Warren, but of the two Bernie’s most potent with the demographic we need to win over.
ArchTeryx
Well, one small ray of light amidst all the darkness. I’ve finally broken out of my suicidal funk and have begun preparing disaster plans, ranked carefully from least disruptive events to potentially deadly events (like total loss of health coverage) and a general plan of action for each. After that, a to-do list, part of which is coming from things Balloon Juicers themselves have suggested, as well as many other excellent suggestions.
I’ve assembled my Avengers and war plans are being made. It may all ultimately come to naught, as the demons now running our government are going to do their absolute level best to cull me and everyone like me from the herd. They may succeed. But I’ve determined that I’m not going down without a fight. I owe my loved ones that much, at least, because they’re going to fight back with every last dollar and every last bit of social capital they have to keep me alive.
Poopyman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: You let out the contracts ($$Billions!!!), build the wall, then stiff the contractors.
Eazy peazy. To Trump, that’s just bizness as usual.
hovercraft
@WereBear:
Yes they will cotinue to normalize it and it’s picks, Kathleen Parker today, Is Steve Bannon really as bad as all that?
Trump’s chief White House strategist is associated with terrible things, but whether he’s terrible himself remains to be seen.
She was a never Hair Shitgibbon, now she’s saying to give it’s henchman a shot? Fuck her and the rest of the media who are going about their business as usual crap. This is a crisis, and the media are just sitting in the water as the temperature on the pot continues to rise. It’s not boiling yet but it will.
Major Major Major Major
Now that the election is done, for safety’s sake I’m switching Trump’s Razor from stupid to evil. “Ascertain the evilest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts.”
Poopyman
@ArchTeryx: Good on ya!
sukabi
@schrodinger’s cat: chances are all those “illegal criminal aliens” will include American citizens that oppose orange scrotum assholes.
Poopyman
@hovercraft: Jesus Christ, that’s really the title. They really are clueless about what they’re doing.
Or not, if that’s what their marching orders entail. Sad!
Keith G
Cool. I really became concerned that Barack Obama’s heroic efforts to prevent our society from going totally tits up during the financial crisis allowed us to side step the “Come to Jesus” moment that we so richly deserved. There were so many lessons that we didn’t learn. Even though I have more skin in the game than most, I’m beginning to become a bit of a nihilist in regards to our next little political adventure. Let the Trump regime start a fire, and let it burn for a while. There are far too many of obese white folks on scooters buying Twinkies at the local Walmart anyway. It’s time for a culling of the herd. I want to build up a stock t-shirts with a picture of Donald Trump with the words, “Don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for this son of a bitch.”
And when that time comes that the Democrats regain control of the executive branch, my wish is that we show these fucking mokes how to really put on a show trial.
gene108
I am sorry but Hillary used a private e-mail server, while SOS. Therefore totally the same thing.
On a more serious note I wonder if Trump will jail a reporter for publishing something critical of administration, or use Thiel or another billionaire to sew the outlet out of existence.
He’s already hinted at the latter. And the way he’s treating the White House press pool as his bitch already makes me think his relationship with media with the media will be one big domination display, until they bow to his will unquestioningly.
DWF
This is an amazing list. I would love if future lists like these included a list of sources. Lately any time I present an argument to someone on the right, I back it up with a list of sources. It’s probably futile, but it’s my attempt to let people know these are actual things happening in the world.
tobie
Wasn’t Jame Fallows keeping a running tally of the truly unprecedented nature of the Trump candidacy? He probably was hoping he stop after the election but now we need these chronicles more than ever.
goblue72
@cervantes: Agreed. James Watt was Secretary of Interior under Reagan. John Ashcroft was AG, a guy who wanted to cover up the wee-wee’s of statues in the Justice Dept building. Gale Norton was Interior Secretary under Bush.
Let’s not forget our history amongst the hyperbole.
Ridnik Chrome
What really gives me nightmares is the thought that history is not going to stand idly by while our new president-elect gets his act together. Things are going to happen — natural disasters, terrorist attacks, police shootings, random acts of violence, and so on — and Trump and his gang of clowns are going to have no idea what to do (and what not to do) in response.
Poopyman
@hovercraft: Damn you for making me read this swill.
hovercraft
@ArchTeryx:
Yay !!!
:- )
See de-lurking and joining the fray can be a good thing, this way we were able to engage you. I’m sure we pissed you off a great deal, but that can lead to a fighting spirit. Please stay in the pond with us, like I said the other day, there are a few piranhas but most us are minnows.
Being prepared for all contingencies is always wise. Keep fighting.
Phaedrus
A few of those things are normal – the torture thing, been done before. Hell, we had a sitting President declare publicly he was using bunches of warrantless wiretaps and nothing came of it. Our current President has ordered citizens killed without trial. We had a supreme court install a President. We had a Congress shutter the government and simply not ignore their constitutional duty to even consider a Supreme nominee. Contracts to rebuild LA after Katrina were handed out based on Politics. We Attorney’s General fired because they wouldn’t gin up charges against the opposition.
So, yeah, Trump has some new stuff – but things had gotten pretty abnormal already.
enplaned
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/16/13651022/trump-twitter-new-york-times-pivot
Trump hates on the NYTimes, and it won’t change.
The Times lead the anti-Hillary charge — it could not stop, even when it found nothing in its investigations, from doing their best to keep her under a cloud.
They’re going to get good and fucked by Trump. Trump will do his best to cow them, and possibly try to curb the first amendment generally (which is where we all get fucked too).
The NYTimes has allowed itself to be thoroughly compromised over the years — Judith Miller’s reporting on Iraq for instance.
But its coverage of Hillary was particularly unwise, since it teed the NYTimes up to be thoroughly fucked by Trump. That the NYTimes has a major investor who is Mexican is just the icing on the cake once Trump starts to go to town on the Times.
Perhaps the way to understand the Times’s attacks on Hillary is this: it’s another example of how the powers-that-be really never internalized the possibility of a Trump win. If you had ruled out the possibility of a Trump win but, for whatever reason, hated Hillary, then you had every incentive to make her win as slight as possible, to keep her weak down the road. One hell of a miscalculation, that.
However you try to understand it, the Times fucked up big time. Unfortunately, collateral damage to the rest of us will be profound.
Winnief
It’s only been a week since the election he isn’t even sworn in and already it’s a clusterfuck.
Gonna be a fun four years…
GrandJury
I still maintain that he won’t last a year. Either by quitting because he doesn’t like actually having to do the job, or impeachment….or maybe both at the same time.
This will be the most corrupt administration in history. I have no doubt about that either. But then again, I was certain Hillary could never lose against such a colossal asshole facist. So what do I know.
He can (and is) pretty much doing what ever he wants right now. So it’s a matter of how long will Congress and the American people put up with it.
Это курам на смех
@cmorenc: Bernie has already made it clear he is going to do nothing but purity troll the party and weaken its chances in 2018. Fuck that guy.
Timurid
And hot off the griddle at the Washington Post…
Next up, “Adam Lanza is associated with terrible things like ‘shooting first graders in the face,’ but whether he’s terrible himself remains to be seen.”
I’m envisioning newsrooms full of MSM drones toiling at their computers like galley slaves, editors walking the aisles whips in hand and a guy at the back of the room pounding the big drum and chanting “1-2-3-Normalize… 1-2-3-NORMALIZE!”
Cacti
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Indeed.
Inmourning
Ryan’s promise to keep the system for anyone over a certain age does not work, fiscally. I am over that certain age, and I know that Ryan’s promise does not add up, will be bad for me and bad for future generations. The trick is to convince others in my age group that Ryan’s promise cannot be kept unless the current system is kept intact, with some improvements ( such as lifting the income level past which payroll taxes do not apply). The AARP understands this, and I think it has started pushing back, but we need the press to focus on this issue. And we all need to keep pressure on our representatives.
cmorenc
I wish Ross Perot had won the Presidency in 1992. The country could have tried out the idea of letting a billionaire so rich he was beyond corrupting try to fix the country – which in Perot’s case was actually true – and seen how that worked out. Perot was at least an essentially honest, if sometimes eccentric man, and genuinely wanted to help fix the country so it worked. Perot was a very pragmatic man, not an ideologue, and wasn’t greedy for more wealth.
goblue72
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Repurposing of existing funding within DHS.
The Moar You Know
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: liberal slave labor. Joke’s on him though. Very few of us know how to operate construction equipment.
Это курам на смех
@enplaned: The NYT has always been the voice of the plutocrats, who are the winners of this election. The Times will remain loyal to its masters.
Betty Cracker
@DWF: Follow the link to the original, and you’ll find sources embedded. I was too lazy to reproduce each one here (WP doesn’t make it easy).
hovercraft
@Poopyman:
You are a braver person than I. While I’m venturing out into the net, I don’t actually click on many of the things I find out there, the titles alone tell me all I need to know about the shitweasels we call the media. I thought the title was egregious enough to convey the horrors within. Thank you for bring the dead rodent back into the house with you.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne: Good one!
goblue72
@cmorenc: Liz Warren has also started taking the gloves off. She gave a recent speech to a group of major Dem party funders that was seen as a bit critical of the Clinton campaign, and even took some shots at Obama’s incrementalist approach to certain issues. Her attitude was described as “liberated”.
Its not just Sanders. I expect to see more of this in the weeks ahead. The “STFU UNITY CLAP LOUDER” crap isn’t going to fly anymore.
MomSense
@ArchTeryx:
Can I join your team Captain Arch?
kindness
@D58826: My FB feed has already had several articles hailing St. Bernie and several friends who have implied I’m not a good Democrat because I 1) asked if Bernie is now a registered Democrat & 2) if Bernie had donated any money to any other Senators (who won) running for office.
So we’re back to Berniebros telling the rest of us how we’re supposed to be. Oh yea, and Democrats should accept no money from businesses because Bernie.
It’s going to be a very long 4 years.
Major Major Major Major
@cmorenc: @Это курам на смех: Yeah, Bernie had his chance to win me over about fifty times this year. He’s on extra super duper probation now.
Mnemosyne
@ArchTeryx:
Phew! I really did understand the temptation, but why let the motherfuckers win without a fight?
trollhattan
Sixteen years ago we had an ever-growing list of Bushisms. Boy, some of those were hilarious.
D58826
@cmorenc: Bernie serves a constituency of one – Bernie. He had a taste of the big stage and it went to his head
Sab
@cmorenc: Don’t forget Sherrod Brown.
hovercraft
@MomSense:
Hey, how are you doing today?
I know all of this has been getting to you, I’m hoping that each day is getting a tiny bit better.
Chris T.
Following the original links back to the source gets us this second quote:
Being in a government position is called “public service” and “being a public servant” for a reason.
Betty Cracker
Regarding the Kathleen Parker piece: it was her usual stupid contrarian garbage with a click-bait title, and she whitewashed a lot of Breitbart bile (example: failing to note that “cheeky” Milo was kicked off Twitter for leading a hate-mob twit-assault on Leslie Jones). But I think her ultimate conclusion was supposed to be, “Yeah, he’s that bad.”
Major Major Major Major
@goblue72: You said ‘crucial’ when you meant ‘critical’. Trouble translating out of the original Russian?
Jeffro
@The Moar You Know:
sometimes the grimmest humor is the best…=)
I got my dad to back off his Trump-glee by pointing out that Bannon’s a neo-Nazi and hey, what would Reagan have thought of that…now I have my mom circling back saying that the Bible tells us to accept authority (and therefore, all these protestors are out of line). I don’t mind getting in my dad’s face but ugh, can’t do that with mom. So I simply asked her to keep her eyes & ears open and promise to call her Senators and Congressman if & when Ryan’s end-of-Medicare bill comes around (like on Inaguration Day afternoon)
I can’t get in Mom’s face but I’m not above scaring her with a useful fact.
goblue72
@kindness: Yeah well, you arses tilting at imaginary BernieBro windmills lost and lost good and hard. You deserve to be criticized. You’re still all completely deaf as hell, despite reality walking up to you and slapping you with a 2×4.
The Moar You Know
@cmorenc: You are so full of shit – from Sanders to Perot – that it’s amazing that you can see the keyboard to type this puke drivel.
Perot was in it to get richer, just like Trump. And Sanders – but he was SO easily bought. A lake house, drop the investigation into Jane, and he’s all good. Amazing how little some people will sell out their fellow countrymen for.
Keith G
@goblue72: I for one am fine with that. it’s better to be in power than out of power, but one of the benefits of being out of power is allowing the marketplace of ideas to take hold. That is one reason why it’s very difficult for a political party to hold the presidency for three terms in a row. Ideas and practices begin to stagnate.
Turgidson
@WereBear:
1) maybe, but it will take about ten times as long as you’d expect. Bush didn’t earn the universal loathing he so obviously deserved from the beginning until about year 6. Trump might fall apart faster but I wouldn’t count on it.
2) Yes.
Emerald
@enplaned:
Time for the New York Times to admit that its time is up.
Go out of business or turn into a tabloid. Its “news” reporting has proved to be entirely unreliable.
Because, yeah, they are the ones behind this debacle. Their editors and reporters are, however, apparently so much more utterly sophisticated than the rest of us that they wouldn’t be able to see it with the aid of the Hubble Telescope.
goblue72
@Major Major Major Major: Already corrected. Typos punching out on the phone.
But your complete inability to take criticism in spite of LOSING is duly noted. Enjoy the sand keeping you head warm.
kindness
@cmorenc: I don’t require the purity Bernie seems to. And while I welcome anyone to the Democratic Party I really don’t like newbies to tell me I have to live up to their expectations in order to consider myself a member in good standing.
It’s a big party. No one has the right to tell others who is best or who belongs and who doesn’t.
catclub
@tobie: I think the simple scale of conflict of interest with his companies is unprecedented.
Putting the Company in a blind trust operated by his kids – and then the kids are still in the administration.
Utter secrecy of a private company put in a ‘blind trust’.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:
Actually it was:
Which I am translating as:
I’m sure her buddy Kellyanne will keep her off of the really bad lists, anyway…
tobie
@enplaned:
I dunno. Hard for me to imagine Amy Chozick puking her guts out on election night for what she enabled. The Times could do something to repair the damage if it would stop hiring Politico reporters. Political journalism should not be a version of Rona Barrett gossip column.
kindness
@goblue72: See and here you exemplify what Bernie’s biggest problem is. He (& his zealots) want to drive me out of a party I’ve belonged to since Nixon. Usually I find you fine. Today…..not so much.
enplaned
@Это курам на смех: I don’t think the Times leadership wanted Trump to be the winner. It’s Jewish and cosmopolitan, and there’s no way that a Trump win was going to be good for them.
The Trump win (and Brexit, etc) is one of a set of consequences of the failure of the elites. The Times are clearly part of that elite, and I think the failure of the Times (in many different ways) is not the least among the failures that got us to this pass. I don’t see how the Times benefits from a Trump presidency.
Yutsano
@hovercraft: Zandar tried to get me to read a link from Kraushaar earlier. Took one look at the writer and NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE!!!
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
Yeah, about that …
But, hey, keep arguing against the evidence that the Berniebros got rolled by Russian propaganda and his Russian-connected campaign manager.
If Tad Devine is still advising Bernie on any level, I would be very, very wary of anything coming from that camp right now.
catclub
@Inmourning:
So do you think Ryan cares? We know that Trump doesn’t.
dww44
As long as we are plotting ways to fight back against the results of last Tuesday’s election, I read this post earlier at No More Mister Nice Blog about what the right continues to circulate about Hillary, specifically the atrocious things she’s supposed to have said and done since losing. Why can’t someone on our team take up the task to pushback against this nonsense and set the record straight? A separate site/blog where the post election politics of Hillary destruction can be called out for what it is.
goblue72
@Sab: Sherrod Brown this week has started demanding Trump make good on his promise to re-negotiate NAFTA. Dems need to jump on that bandwagon. The era of Democrats in thrall to Wall Street money and promoting “free” trade agreements needs to be over.
cosima
Who are the electors?
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/list-who-will-cast-a-formal-vote-for-president-2016-231235
Any of them worth contacting BJers-who-live-in-red-states?
catclub
@Chris T.: There are not millions of high level Government employees. Maybe thousands.
MomSense
@hovercraft:
I’m tough. I don’t like the waiting and wondering, though. Started a new round of applying for jobs including retail jobs that provide benefits. My brain is fried anyway so Muzak and endless clothes folding could be therapeutic.
How are you holding up?
Mnemosyne
Also, too, so far the one tangible benefit of my safety pin decoration is that when I had to apologize to a black woman for mistaking her for a man in the line for the bathroom, she seemed to accept the apology as sincere.
(Both of us standing outside those one-room bathrooms; glanced up and only saw her food service pants and hat; pointed out that the men’s room was open. Still kinda embarrassing, but at least she laughed after I apologized.)
Betty Cracker
Chuck Schumer on the party schism:
I know where I come down on that question. Schumer went on to say:
Fine by me, though I would note that’s tinkering with messages and messengers since Clinton’s 2016 platform had a ton of economic justice measures in it, including minimum wage hikes. But if the people who are advocating that we dilute our social justice message to appeal to bigots prevail, the party is fucked, and it will be fucked without me.
catclub
@dww44:
Because Roy Edroso is the only one who is willing to read their dreck.
Gin & Tonic
@Это курам на смех: New here? Interesting choice of nym, which I haven’t seen around.
WereBear
@cmorenc: Just pointing out that in the Senate, Bernie is known as the Amendment King.
He knows how to work the levers, and that’s exactly what we need.
NCSteve
@gratuitous: I seem to recall a certain middle European country where mass media was successfully used to normalize and legitimize the previously unthinkable back in the 30’s and 40’s.
Это курам на смех
@Gin & Tonic: No. Formerly I was a food product made from old people.
Betty Cracker
@goblue72: I trust Sherrod Brown, who actually understands issues and gets things done.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
Co-signed.
Chris T.
@catclub: Yes, well, I didn’t say “millions”, I quoted someone else who said “millions”. My point stands: public service is public. You don’t get to be secretive.
WereBear
That’s right! For you:
Viggo Mortensen in The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Aragorn’s speech to the combined army of Gondor and Rohan, prior to the Battle of the Black Gate:
Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of Gondor… of Rohan… my brothers! I see in your eyes, the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship… but it is not this day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of Men comes crashing down… but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear, on this good earth, I bid you STAND, MEN OF THE WEST!
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major: @D58826:
Sorry, not getting on that bus, he’s still a selfish prick who poisoned the water with the youth. We always complain about republicans lying to their base promising things that they know are impossible. Even now they are still doing it, they will severely damage the ACA and possibly destroy it, but they will find that gutting medicare and medicaid will induce howls of pain from not just their base, but from the industry itself, they are cash cows and the life blood of hospitals the insurance companies and device makers. Wall Street wants a huge chunk of those cash cows, but the others aren’t just going to quietly roll over for this. It was the likes of AARP who beat it back last time. So yes they’ll fuck them up somewhat, to the detriment of millions of people, but they will not completely be able to dismantle them.
Sorry this was supposed to be about Bernie, single payer will not happen until our current system collapses, a government option is attainable now, it wasn’t 6 years ago. Even Bernie supporters when polled were not willing to ante up for all of his proposals, free college and the rest cost real money, his supporters were barely willing to ante up $1k to pay for it, if he had somehow won and through magic implemented his entire agenda, how many seats would have been lost when they ran commercials saying you used to take home a thousand an month and now you tale home six hundred because of all the new taxes? The flip side would be all the free stuff you now but, but people don’t care. As Obama says, if we were starting from scratch, these things would be possible, but we’re not so we have to be incremental.
Who knows, if the Shitgibbon keeps it’s promises, we may yet have to start from scratch. If that happens I’ll call the purity ponies, till then, they can shut the fuck up, or get on board the incremental bus, ’cause that’s all we have.
Mnemosyne
@WereBear:
@Betty Cracker:
I’m actually okay with Democratic politicians being strategic and not announcing everything in public. I’m just not sure I trust Bernie on this matter, particularly if Tad Devine still has his ear.
D58826
I can’t find the link to this even though it is on one of the current threads so here it is again
Eichenwald does not pull any punches and he is obviously angry. The Opo research book on Bernie was 2 feet thick. A video of Bernie cheering with a crowd of Sandinistas as Daniel Ortega attacked the US. Boy that would have gone over big the great WWC.
On a slightly more positive note, in an earlier thread we discussed Lindsey Graham’s decision to vote to keep the filibuster. Orin Hatch of Utah seems to be on board also. With the GOP only having 51 votes at the moment that would stop the nuclear option in it’s tracks. If they pick up LA after the runoff then would need one more R vote.
Purely uninformed speculation here but once it became obvious that Trump was the nominee and to publicly oppose him dangerous maybe some of the senators, elected in a time when the GOP and democrats did work together (Hatch and Teddy Kennedy were good friends), adopted a two stage strategy to stop Trump
1. Hillary would win so problem solved
2. fallback position if option 1 failed – keep the filibuster so that the democrats could stop some of the worse abuses. And maybe even work with time on a few issues where they have an overlap of interests
http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
Gin & Tonic
@Это курам на смех: Got it.
D58826
@WereBear: He might have been the amendment king but over the years in both the House and Senate very few ever made it into the final legislation. During the primary wars I checked the congressional record. They have a complete legislative history of bills submitted/passed, amendments submitted/passed. I don’t remember see very many of Bernie’s bills/amendments being passed. The only big one that I remember was the VA reform bill in 2008/2009 but that was a hot button topic at the time so he had the legislative wind at his back on that one.
jibeaux
So I’ve been in hiding, but I’m trying to peek my head out.
Discussion lately with my husband: while he is just as dismayed as I am about this election, he thinks that basically Pence and Paul Ryan are going to be running the show, and that the Dow is not going to tank.
I want to get all of our investments (we have a kid going to college in 2.5 years, retirement accts, etc.) into the most conservative path available. You can look at what the DJIA has done since ’08 and I think make a strong case that it’s going to hit another big bump down even regardless of who’s running things, but with this shitgibbon in charge, I think the economy and the Dow are definitely going down. Our accounts have done well over the last few years and I would rather park them where they are and earn 2 % rather than take chances right now. I don’t think I’ll regret that even if the economy stays good.
What are you guys doing, thinking, got any good arguments for me?
tobie
@WereBear: This is snark. Right? That one article in the NYTImes about the amendment king has been repeated again and again. History doesn’t seem to bear it out.
les
@cmorenc:
BS. The Bern just announced his disappointment that the Dem’s couldn’t appeal to his white working buddies. Fuck him.
hovercraft
@MomSense:
I’m mad as hell now, and so I’ve been a little testy, coming here lets me blow off steam so I don’t take it out on the people at home. I kept telling the kids not to worry, it could never happen. So now I’m trying to explain to them what happened, when I still can’t fully explain it to myself. I’ve made it clear that race was a huge part of it, they need to know and understand the country they are growing up in. There are a lot of Dominicans in town, so there are several friends of my 14 year old who are scared, so she feels bad for them. It’s a rude awakening for them.
That’s why I’m here cursing.
Mnemosyne
@jibeaux:
I actually have an investment advisor who I need to call. If he has any advice, I’ll try to pass it along.
WereBear
@D58826: I know LBJ did a lot of bad things, but on the other hand, when he wanted to do good things, he knew how.
The Robert Caro biography series is a must read, and taught me a lot about how the legislative branch runs.
So I’ve been thinking a lot about levers.
tobie
@Betty Cracker: Won’t have me either, and I think that goes for a lot of people like me. I’ve been canvassing, phone banking, handing out leaflets, etc. in almost every cycle since 1984, and feel punched in the gut by Sanders and Warren’s recent comments.
WereBear
@jibeaux: I have come to the same conclusion. Slowly moving everything over to bonds or money markets.
If those go, it’s squirrel in the crock pot anyway.
hovercraft
@WereBear:
I’m with Viggio.
Amaranthine RBG
Can we please, please, stop hating on the NYT?
Yes, they published criticisms of the Clintons. Yes, they cheerleaded us into the second Gulf War. There are other failures as well.
Now lets compare that to the hundreds of thousands of accurate news stories they have published over the years.
Let’s weigh that against the other choices – the Washington Post? WSJ? LA Times? CSM? Which of them hasn’t made mistakes.
And please don’t even get me started about the fuck-ups, plagiarism, and all-around amateurism that you find on practically every “online news platform”
Take your fucking purity pony out behind the barn and roger it as much as you want, but that doesn’t change the fact the NYT is (generally speaking) a solid dependable voice of truth that does much more good than harm.
Kay
She’s extraordinarily and completely dishonest, but this is bad even for her. She’s dodging the question on why the President needs his son in law at the presidential daily briefing.
This gaslighting is gonna be nuts. The whole country will be insane by the end of this. There is no truth, no facts, it’s just all spun all out of recognition.
This is no joke- not a candidate- The President will lie constantly.
ArchTeryx
@hovercraft: You didn’t piss me off at all. The vast majority were, at worst, rough love, at best, angels in human form. I’ve been on the Internet since 1988. Trolls, for the most part, don’t phase me.
trollhattan
Speaking of Very Helpful People who might just as well be crushed between boulders, my local paper presented with this Dick Whisperer cage liner this a.m.
The windup:
Stuff in the middle and then, the pitch.
I’m-a ’bout ready to punch some necks.
D58826
@Chris T.: I do sometimes wish that they would wait a decent interval before publishing their kiss and tell memoirs. Maybe until the guy that hired them leaves office. On the other hand if the book reveals that the office holder is up to no good, then its best to get it out there. But then the book would not sell as well. So on balance I will take the good with the bad under the current system.
Gin & Tonic
@les: Sanders and Matthews – two rich old white loudmouths who haven’t worked an honest day in their lives talking about an extinct species as if it were real. “White working class” hasn’t been the guy carrying his lunchbucket into the auto plant for years now – it’s the guy stocking shelves on third shift at the supermarket trying to get out so he can get home before his wife does the breakfast shift at McD’s.
Chris
@D58826:
Oh, holy Mary mother of God. We are so fucked.
schrodinger's cat
If Trump carries through with even half of his immigration and economic policies I predict a Great Depression II.
The Moar You Know
@WereBear: I don’t think people should be allowed to vote if they haven’t read the series. It really is that good, and really explains how government actually works, which is something I never was taught in either high school or college.
ETA: it definitely changed my voting patterns. Like most Americans, I’ve always looked at politics from the top (presidency) being the most important to the local as being least. An error I shared with most of my chosen party. I could not have been more wrong, and have changed accordingly.
trollhattan
@Kay:
But Freddie says the reason we’re losers is using terms like gaslighting.
Am assuming Freddie never listened to Steely Dan.
D58826
@Kay: For gods sake why is the son-in-law, who does not hold a legal position within the WH taking part in the presidents daily brief. That is for government employees only. Remember all the howling about what Hillary may or may not have said to Sid Blumemthal!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rusty
@Betty Cracker: He went on to say it’s not either/or, but can be both. In that sense I think he is right.
Kay
Also, I’m sorry to be such a snobby elitist but it’s banana-republic-land to bring your whole family into the Presidency.
That’s just fact. This is gross and tacky and embarrassing for the country. He can’t have his grown children and son in law doing his job. It’s a bridge too far. It’s just cringe-inducing.
Chris T.
@jibeaux: The danger of parking in a 2% CD (or equivalent) is that inflation could perk up. If the standard Republican dont-tax-but-spend-like-crazy-anyway stuff comes to pass and various other conditions improve (that second part is the unlikely part, the first half is very likely), we could see a return to, say, 8% year-over-year general inflation rates. In that case, your 2% interest is running at a loss.
(Note that “dont-tax-but-spend-heavily-and-foolishly” is not happening in Kansas, but that is because states must balance their budgets. They lack the ability to create money: that privilege is limited to the Treasury, which can coin it, and banks and other lending institutions, which create money whenever anyone anywhere—including the Federal government—incurs debt.)
ArchTeryx
@MomSense: Everyone’s welcome in my Flock. I don’t even have any secret handshakes. We just support each other when times get rough. I don’t require anyone in it to pay fealty to me. We just stand together against the darkness. That’s all I ever have asked of my friends.
Raven Onthill
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “Apparently Trump also decided to screw Congress, he’s building the wall anyway.And how pray tell, is that to be done without funding?”
He’ll take money from other things, of course.
WereBear
@hovercraft: I am ALWAYS with Viggo :) Mmmmmm. Yes.
Kay
@trollhattan:
Okay then, in deference to Freddy- “lying constantly to the extent that one starts to feel the world has gone crazy OR one is insane”
This is new. Presidents lie but they don’t blatantly lie on all matters large and small publicly every day.
That’s crazy-town.
Patricia Kayden
@WereBear: No and yes. The media appears to be invested in pumping up Trump with a few noted exceptions. I was reading a Vanity Fair article about Secretary Clinton today and was shocked to learn that it was the NY Times which first printed an article about Clinton’s email server “scandal” early last year. I was shocked. The so- called liberal media at work.
Amaranthine RBG
@les:
Look, there’s no dispute that Clinton underperformed among the white working class.
NONE – you need to accept that.
Now, are large swaths of the WWC world filled with racist, homophobic, bigots? Why, yes, Virginia, they are. That’s the way it is.
I am all in favor of uplifting the morals and ethics of the working classes (of all races) and making them share my enlightened world view as much as possible. But that is second to finding common ground with them and getting them to vote in favor of candidate who will not destroy the Country.
Haven’t you dumb fucks read your Alinsky?
When I was out banging on doors in Reno canvassing for Clinton and walked up a walkway flanked by votives and when Mrs. Reyes or Sandoval answered the door I didn’t start by asking: “Now are you Catholic? You don’t really support the Catholic Church’s position on abortion do you? Because if you do we don’t need your sorry ass voting for Hillary.”
This is politics. Grow up. Keep your eyes on the fucking prize.
ArchTeryx
@Mnemosyne: As long as I have my friends and loved ones at my side, I owe it to them to fight. If my ‘hour of wolves and shattered shields’ is to come, let it come. I generally prefer this line from Princess Mononoke, which summarizes the Japanese mindset in a nutshell:
You cannot alter your fate. But you can rise to meet it if you choose.
WereBear
@The Moar You Know: And he is such a lyrical, yet detailed, writer. He really make history come alive in a way few can.
WereBear
@D58826: It’s my hunch he is relying on the Son in law to explain to him what is going on. And he trusts no one.
Chris
@enplaned:
Well, there’s a fucking tearjerker.
The only thing to come out of right wing administrations that gives me any pleasure is to watch them throw under the bus those of their VSP-best-friends who’ve applied all of their VSP-cred to supporting them, only to find out that they too are expendable. Colin Powell’s treatment by the Bush administration is something I’ve come to appreciate more and more over time; it is, sadly, the closest thing to “punishment” that anyone in there will ever endure. May the NYTimes experience something ten times worse.
Raven Onthill
@D58826: “In an earlier thread there was a discussion about over whither the Senate democrats could make tactical alliances with some of the GOP senators who did not endorse Trump.”
This is what the Obama Administration tried when they proposed the ACA. In the end, they got no Republican votes, zip, zero, nada.
I remind everyone that fighting among ourselves serves no purpose.
WereBear
@Chris T.: Yes, but not parking it means losing half of it over the time span of a leisurely lunch.
Kay
@Patricia Kayden:
They’re almost snarky about Clinton. It grosses me out. It’s piling on and there’s so much suppressed glee in it. They finally vanquished the witch who wanted to …expand children’s health care with an affordable but market-friendly voucher program! Clinton’s too wonky to be the evil malicious demon they make her out to be. It’s fanciful and bizarre, they way they portray her.
Emma
@goblue72: If Sanders is elected president I’m running out as fast as I can. Malevolence I can deal with. Intellectual arrogance mixed with outdated ideology not so much.
D58826
@jibeaux:
Somehow I don’t take much comfort in that. Whither you are run over and killed by someone with a blood alcohol of .30 or someone stone cold sober your still dead.
In one sense it might be easier to contain Trump because he doesn’t really know how to make DC work other than thru threats and bluster. Once the threats prove hollow he won’t get much done. Pence/Ryan are the sober/serious/ oh so responsible ones and they know how to work the levers of power in DC. They are much more dangerous.
WereBear
@Patricia Kayden: I haven’t forgotten their enabling of the Iraq War. Which still fills me with rage.
jibeaux
@Chris T.: Well, that’s a good point. Probably I should talk to a professional advisor.
WereBear
That’s wonderful. I will remember that.
Emma
@enplaned: And I have this teeny tiny violin they can use to play their funeral dirge.
SiubhanDuinne
@Chris:
Well, but so is Joe Manchin, so balance!
Mai.naem.mobile
@Keith G: I am wondering when those made in China MAGA hats will be seen somewhere in Africa – The rejected donated clothes that Goodwill and other thrift stores like that are packaged and sold by the cargo load and sent to poorer countries.
Raven Onthill
@jibeaux: ” You can look at what the DJIA has done since ’08 and I think make a strong case that it’s going to hit another big bump down even regardless of who’s running things, but with this shitgibbon in charge, I think the economy and the Dow are definitely going down. ”
Except there could be a burst of inflation. If we are out of the liquidity trap, all the deficit spending (and, since Reagan, the Republicans have always blown up the national debt) will run up interest rates and cause inflation. I suppose a default on the national debt is even possible.
Financial planning at this time is turning out to be such a fun subject. In addition to the normal “go fast, go slow” to respond to I have “deflation” on the list, as well as “States Rights,” where state governments are left to take over social insurance programs, and “Case Orange Nightmare Tweed,” where independent fascist movements across the world wreck the networks of global trade.
WereBear
@jibeaux: By all means, consult someone.
That’s what I’m doing, is all. I’m still highly angry that I can’t invest my retirement money except in the freakin’ stock market, and then only in these demarcated boxes. When it took ten years for the SEC to listen to all the people telling them Bernie Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme, I’m deeply skeptical of what that place gets up to.
trollhattan
@Kay:
But, that’s such a long sentence, what with all those word things. We’re in quite a pickle because complicated ideas don’t fit in the front of trucker caps.
D58826
@Raven Onthill: True but Obama isn’t Trump. And there still might be a few Republicans willing to put country over party. I’m not talking big victories here but maybe able to cut a deal on infrastructure improvements. And to the extent that Graham, Hatch and maybe a few others save the filibuster for SCOTUS and routine legislation they give the democrats a weapon that they can use.
It’s not the way the system should work and there will be many dark days but at least there is a possible path to avoid some of the worst things. Operative word is possible.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@WereBear: and ArchTeryx: Hell to the yes. (side note–need to reread the trilogy, I think.) Been reading Pratchett’s Reaper Man; I’ve had several painful deaths happen recently and oddly I draw strength from it. (And, as Death says, There is no justice. There is just us).
jibeaux
@D58826: I don’t think he disagrees with that. It’s more that we agree that Trump is a total fucking wild card, and the markets might be really erratic responding to him. Obama made this point in his comments — Trump goes out and starts saber-rattling or wall-talking and instead of it being a campaign point, it becomes a point that international investors react to. I think that shit is going to happen. “Reality has a way of asserting itself.” Husband thinks the world is going to figure out that the real power is behind the scenes and they don’t have to live or die in their investments by what Trump says.
ruckus
@Winnief:
It was a clusterfuck from the get go, it’s just a bit more obvious now. What is obvious is that 50+ million assholes wanted a clusterfuck.
Mnemosyne
@trollhattan:
We have one, but the revanchist Berniebros want us to cast it aside:
Chris T.
@Chris T.: By the way, this does not address the question of positioning yourself. The answer here is too complicated in some ways to bother with, but very simple in another: Balance. Have some cash (CDs and money markets), some bonds, some stocks, and some real estate, if you have enough money to diversify this much. (If it helps you sleep, you might even want to hold on to some gold and/or silver, although in general this is a losing proposition, so try to limit yourself to 5%.)
Every once in a while—yearly, or every 2 to 5 years, is a reasonable interval—check what you have now, and compare it to what you chose for your balance. If you wanted to have mostly stocks and a bit of bonds, and your stocks have gone down and your bonds have gone up, sell some bonds and buy some stocks. It hurts like hell to do that, but it’s usually the right move.
Always keep enough money in some form of cash to cover emergencies (pet needs $2k of vet treatment, kid needs $10k of medical beyond what insurance covers, car lost unexpectedly and it’s time to fork over $20k for a decent replacement and your insurance only covers half of that? all at the same time? well, best to have $25k+ of emergency cash—yes, I realize 10+10+2 = 22; I’m rounding up).
If you have the time and patience (and enough money to bother with), “laddering” is good: buy one 6 month CD, one 1-year CD, and one 2-year right now. When the 6 month one matures, put it into a 1 year, if you didn’t need it right now. It has a better return and the 1-year you bought six months ago, matures in six months now. Repeat ad nauseam until you have 5 year CDs maturing every 6 months and now you can keep a smaller emergency-cash stash in money market or high-yield savings.
Iowa Old Lady
@jibeaux: I would guess that between deregulation and tax cuts, we’ll have a bubble of some sort as that money seeks a place to make more money. So the dow should spike for a while. Eventually it will crash. Without regulation, cycles of boom and bust seem inevitable.
ruckus
@cmorenc:
You can keep thinking that, it still won’t be true.
jibeaux
@Raven Onthill: You an independent financial advisor? Fee for service?
Betty Cracker
@Rusty: I agree it can and should be both. I’d also argue that it pretty much has been both. Neither Obama nor Hillary were about screwing the white working class and are members of the only party that tries to help Americans who aren’t either already rich or still in zygote form.
Can and should the party do better? Obviously. But not by throwing women, nonwhites and immigrants under the bus because some potential voters think they’re icky or scary.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: The causality there is crazy. He gets the briefings so he gets a security clearance? Usually it’s the other way around.
joel hanes
@Cacti:
Enhanced Voting Techniques asks the musical question
> And how pray tell, is that to be done without funding?
Well, first you send a CIA guy to Teheran with a Bible and a hand-written note from the President and a cake in the shape of a key.
That is the key first move, the art of the deal, if you will; next you quietly sell US assets for cash to willing customers, even armaments to our ostensible enemy nations. It is known.
Now you have an unaccountable boodle not subject to House allocation or oversight.
MomSense
@The Moar You Know:
Pretty sure he’s going to have Chinese companies with Chinese workers build the wall. They have built some pretty great walls in the past.
Juice Box
I’m sitting in a Starbucks right now, killing time until an appointment. All around me the youngs are talking about expensive sneakers and, at the same time, planning the resistance. I’m as happy as I’ve been in a week.
Raven Onthill
@Chris T.: I like your advice. Remember, too, that the dollar could be damaged in a default or by sufficiently awful trade policy; that’s Case Orange Nightmare territory.
Raven Onthill
@jibeaux: No, unfortunately. I like Chris T’s advice.
the wesson
@Amaranthine RBG: Whether you love or hate the New York Times, support them anyhow as a pillar of the Establishment – which is now our somewhat uncomfortable ally against Trumpenfuehrer. Der Trump is the problem at the moment. Later on, assuming fascism ends, we can go back to slinging stones at establishment sellout journalism etc.
(And Hillbots and Berniebros play nice for heavens sake. We can go back to arguing about the future of the Democratic party when it becomes apparent it has a future & this country has a future as democracy.)
If you don’t want to play nice you’re still my ally, I’m just trying to argue for what I think is our best interest.
gvg
@hovercraft: I liked this WaPo oped about Bannon not literally being Goebbels. It has a very dark humor and really stark words.
trollhattan
@Chris T.:
Am making the assumption that it’s not a question of whether he’ll seriously crater the economy but when. I cannot endure another Bush-Obama cratering-crawl out because there can be no future Obama before I hit retirement. So I think I need to shove the stock investment portion of my various retirement accounts to something safe-ish and then stop opening my quarterly statements. During 2007-2009 I even invented my own Friedman-Unit equivalent: the Taurus-Unit to describe how much retirement savings I was shedding quarterly.
BTW THANKS OBAMA.
ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
Bernie is not a friend of mine. Not in any way, shape or form. I’m pretty sure he shouldn’t be a friend of anyone else either. He should just go back to being the strange old fart in the corner, muttering to himself about how great it would be if everyone would just listen to him.
D58826
@Patricia Kayden: For those with long memories most of the US based media backed JFK/LBJ in Vietnam. It wasn’t until the reporters on the ground raising question that the media began to turn. And it was the NYT that broke the pentagon papers and WAPO that pushed the third rate Watergate burglery. Losing Cronkite was the last straw. So on balance I’ll take the media warts and all.
As to the NYT breaking the e-mail story. I think that was the proper thing to do given the information they had at the time. Who knows she could have been storing the nuclear codes on it. Maybe there was a way that she could have lanced the boil and the story would have died on it’s own. She didn’t but obviously once it became clear that there really wasn’t much to the story it did get flogged all out of proportion by most if not all of the media, not just the NYT. Look how much coverage the even bigger nothing burger birth certificate story or Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers got. and those stories didn’t even have potential national security implication attached to them
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It just occurred to me, the only way they could staff up with enough people willing to do the unpleasant and physical job of hunting illegal aliens down, dragging them out of their homes and deporting them is to hire immigrants,…
JordanRules
@Betty Cracker:
rAmen! I already have friends who are edging in that direction and I think some of them are surprised at how pissed I am when it’s even considered.
Patricia Kayden
@gratuitous: Hasn’t Trump already been normalized? Our side shouldn’t accept that normalization but it appears to be a fait accompli. Republicans will be pushing the boundaries for the next 4 years to see how much nonsense the American people and media will swallow as politics as usual.
Gin & Tonic
Timothy Snyder, who knows a thing or two about the rise of fascism, has posted a 20-point list of actions to take. His 20th:
What struck me most about reading his Black Earth is how the key part of the process which led to the Nazi takeover of most of Europe was discrediting government at all levels. Nobody then used the phrase “drown it in a bathtub”, but the removal of normal civil institutions is (in Snyder’s view) a necessary precursor to what we saw then.
dogwood
@cmorenc:
Bernie is going to spend his time backstabbing democrats. The DNC was fine with this man running as a dem and we see how that turned out. Now he’s a leader in a party he hates and has no respect for. Look for lots of disarray among dems. He is setting himself up for a run in 2020.
glory b
@kindness: Me too, although you have a bit of seniority on me.
Especially for African Americans, we have been members of this party for DECADES and to think that some young middle and upper middle class white kids who just joined the party six months ago are now going to tell us to SHUT UP AND CLAP for them while they use our tax dollars to pay for their college (while only half of us go on to higher education) and when they wrap themselves in a progressive flag while promoting the most regressive policy in years (most college funds would go to the wealthiest).
But we’re supposed to be like the help, Mammy and Uncle, and just go along with what the young white Master and Missus want. Can’t have tantrums disturbing Mister Bernie, can we?
NotMax
Best thing about the election and its aftermath is encountering so many new or long absent names who have emerged here to commiserate, enlighten, counsel, support, surprise and delight.
Roger Moore
@jibeaux:
The Republicans are going into “deficits don’t matter*” mode, and that’s likely to give the economy a boost in the short to medium term. Plus we know they’re going to do what Wall Street wants, which will tend to cause markets to go up. So pulling your money out today is probably leaving a bunch of money on the table. Of course, when the bubble bursts, it’s going to leave an awful mess, so you’ll need to get out eventually. The question is how much risk you’re willing to take and how well you think you can time the market. I’d give it at least a year before they manage to screw things up enough to cause the markets to tank, at the absolute minimum, and more likely at least 2-3 years. Shrub managed longer than that, but he was starting with a mild recession, rather than a solid economy.
*When they are in charge
gene108
@goblue72:
Bernie lost. Democrats rejected him by a large margin. Yet I do not see Bernie supporters accepting the results of the last primary. They keep on and on and on about how they were right and others were wrong.
Yeah, Hillary was more flawed than I expected her to be.
But she was someone, who would have made a good President on all fronts, foreign and domestic.
We are worse off for her loss.
D58826
@Iowa Old Lady: He has no official position in the US Government. There is no funded job called POTUS son-in-law (well up till now anyway). Regardless of which way the causality runs he is not entitled to sit in on the PDB’s or take part in any of the other activities that a top level security clearance would normally entail.
The thing is this whole debate is meaningless. It is my understanding that at 12:01 Jan. 20th 2017, Trump can give anyone he wants the necessary security access, probably even his BFF Valid.
Roger Moore
@Amaranthine RBG:
They’ve all made mistakes. The NYTimes decided it was more important to go after Clinton than it was to get the truth out. They’ve abandoned all pretense of journalistic integrity on the most critical topic of our day. That’s not something that can, or should, be ignored.
With notably rare exceptions, the NY Times has practiced good journalism. It’s as bad a joke as when Greenspan first used it.
gene108
@goblue72:
The world will get along fine without us. We will have our tariffs and our factories, selling only to ourselves, while the rest of the world freezes us out and continues trading with each other.
There are ways to protect the American worker, but that would require some strategic investments in industries that produce high value goods, which can be sold for big bucks, and thus pay workers big salaries.
Bringing back the factories that make cheap plastic GI Joe actions figures is not the pathway to prosperity.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Would surmise a more truncated timeline.
IIRC, there are currently two vacancies on the Board of Governors at the Fed.
The next appointment opportunities don’t come around until 2018, but include the chairmanship in Feb. You know who would have appointed 4 of the 7 members by June 2018.
Patricia Kayden
@Chris T.: That is some great advice. Need to look into buying some CDs. Thank you.
gene108
@Roger Moore:
Bush, Jr. actually had a pretty strong economy, left over from the 1990’s. There was a mild recession that started in 2001 and may have been a bit prolonged because of 9/11, but unemployment was at record lows, to begin with, there was a budget surplus and interest rates were high enough monetary policy could be used to combat the recession.
There’s really nowhere for Trump to go but down.
The tax cut will balloon the deficit. As much as Republicans can try to create their own reality of “deficits don’t matter”, Americans, in general, do not like seeing their government in lots of debt.
You can explain away all the reasons, why it’s not a big deal or temporary, due to a recession, but thinking our government owes a bunch of foreigners money just unsettles people.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: Mexico = American tax payers (which ironically doesn’t include tax dodger Trump). The rubes always get stuck paying the bill.
Miss Bianca
@cmorenc:Pardon me if I don’t see Senator Sanders as an asset. He’s as toxic a supposed “ally” to Democrats as Joe Lieberman. Sure – he has a “chance” to be useful. But he’ll be too busy grandstanding and urging us to Give Trumpism a Chance to actually *be* useful.
Betty Cracker
@Miss Bianca: The thing is, he COULD be. I still hope he will be. But all signs point to him trying to remake the party in his own image. He has a Trump-scale ego.
Raven Onthill
F—. Jeff Sessions (racist, chauvinist) floated for AG.
glory b
@Amaranthine RBG: Hey, just realize some young white guy screaming at Donna Brazile isn’t the way to inspire us.
Miss Bianca
@Cacti: Simple. He’s going to round up all the “illegals” he wants to deport and force them to build the wall before they’re deported. GENIUS! Believe me!!
Lizzy L
The Republicans will try to hold off the recession until after November 2018. Whether that effort succeeds — we’ll all get to find out. After the midterm elections are done, they won’t care. Rich people like recessions, because they get to buy stocks and real estate for cheap. The rest of us — not so much.
catclub
@jibeaux: The real question is: “What is your time frame?”
If it is 10+ years, then the only real choice is stockmarket ( US and international), because you can weather downturns without selling.
Otherwise you are betting against the US (or the world) economy and its history of decade by decade gains.
The people who were gloomy about investments because Obama was elected and was going to ruin everything, shot themselves in the foot and missed a gigantic leg up from 2009 until today. Now they are suddenly optimistic. Doing the reverse is almost as stupid.
I know that I am suddenly more cautious, but before the election, I was saying that there is no recession in sight because there have been
no excesses – due to the lack of government spending, among other things. Now I think there may be a recession and pullback in 3-4 years,
maybe sooner. But if my timeframe is 30 years, I still cannot care, since I know I cannot time it. Maybe gradually becoming more cautious.
Raven Onthill
@Miss Bianca:
We are all on the same side now. Put it away.
D58826
@Miss Bianca: In defense of Lieberman. He was a loyal democrat for years, was the VP nominee in 2000. What ever it was that pissed him off (not getting the nod in 2004 as next in line maybe?) Obama could be gracious to him in order to get that 60th vote. Until late in his career I don’t think he strayed as far from the democratic fold as Bernie has (esp. since he never was one until 2015).
The Moar You Know
@D58826: You are absolutely correct. Classification authority originates with the President.
glory b
@goblue72: Uh huh. Try to win without us.
Bernie supporters were sooooo delicate, and their fee fees soooo sensitive that we had to mute our criticisms of him lest they melt I puddles of tears. The Repub oppo info on him was a two foot high printout, think there was no reason that they invited Jane Sanders on Fox to commiserate about why oh why it was taking the FBI to get on with that Hillary indictment.
I’ll still point out that she won the popular vote, and for the lie of me, I don’t remember Bernie campaign events chock full of WWC voters (I’ll drop here that Kacie Hunt on msnbc said his events were just as white as Trumps).
But keep it up, we’ll be right on board.
Raven Onthill
@Lizzy L: “The Republicans will try to hold off the recession until after November 2018.”
I doubt they are competent to do so
@catclub: “If it is 10+ years, then the only real choice is stockmarket.” That was true when the world was in a long period of growth—in the 20th century. I don’t know if it holds in the 21st. A lot of economists are looking at the possibility of long-term global stagnation. There is even a possibility of shrinkage, if global trade collapses or environmental disasters hit,
D58826
@Raven Onthill: Until Trump makes actual announcements all of this is either self-promotion by the person whose name is being floated or Trump just trolling the rest of us. Since the actual names will be across the board bad, no sense losing sleep over the names being floated. So far none of have been a surprise. Well maybe Caribo Barbie for interior was a bit of a surprise.
Roger Moore
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Evidence suggests there are plenty of WWC willing to do it for free.
Raven Onthill
@glory b: You, too. Sanders himself, and most of his supporters, supported Clinton once she had won the nomination.
If we are going to hold on to any shreds of an egalitarian society which supports all of its members, we must stand together.
Raven Onthill
@D58826: “Until Trump makes actual announcements…”
He doesn’t seem to know himself. He more-or-less fired his first transition team, led by Christie, apparently in a fit of pique, or perhaps fear of looking bad. The Pence-led replacement team is struggling to catch up.
(Added) more coverage of this clusterf—: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/here-s-how-bad-it-is. Apparently, the Trump administration is acting like a royal court, where the new king isn’t up to the job, and the courtiers are fighting among themselves.
D58826
@The Moar You Know: I think I have a win win solution for Trump and s-i-l. Since nepotism laws prevent him from putting S-I-L in a WH position, have the Sec of state name him to one of the deputy positions. He would have to be confirmed by the Senate but that is one of the positions that Harry’s nuclear option removed from the filibuster and the GOP will have bigger issues to litigate with Trump than his S-I-L security clearance. Sec. of state assigns him to work full time at the WH. Not only does Trump get his S-I-L in the loop but he gets a spy to keep tabs on the sec. of state. As just for icing on the cake, with a little pillow talk at home he can make ‘investment suggestions’ to Ivanka. She does not have to know (cough cough) that the information came from a PDB. It could have been a hot top from Larry Kudlow on CNBC. all in all a nice win win for the Das Fuehrer
Roger Moore
@gene108:
Actually, the US still has a vibrant manufacturing sector that does focus on high value goods. We still manufacture more dollar value than any other country in the world, and the workers who do the manufacturing tend to be well paid. Their employers can afford to pay them well because there are fewer and fewer of them every year, even as the value of the goods they produce increases. Automation has done far more to destroy manufacturing jobs than trade did, and there’s no sign of that reversing any time soon.
So yes, we should continue to focus on promoting manufacturing, but we have to understand nothing will bring back the manufacturing sector of the 1950s. We need to figure out how to spread the wealth from the manufacturing sector through the whole economy, or we’ll be left with a 0.01% of owners, a handful of well paid people who make everything, and a lot of poor people looking in from the outside.
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: Sure, he *could* be. But as you pointed out, he has character flaws that mitigate against it.
Lizzy L
@Raven Onthill:
I have no idea. Magic Eight Ball says: The future is murky. Infrastructure stimulus will help stave off a recession for a while. Jamie Dimon for Treasury would be a sane choice; saner than a lot of the other choices T. appears to be contemplating. At least the man knows how finance works. But I won’t defend the new administration’s competence, and I do expect a recession. We’re due.
Roger Moore
@Raven Onthill:
The stock market is good not because it’s guaranteed to grow, but because it gives you a share in the productive economy. It may not continue to grow if the entire economy stagnates, but neither will any other class of asset.
D58826
from Huffington
Abnd she has been so helpful, covering for Alles and waiting to dish on Trump till after the election. Thanks for the help there Megyn and hope yo enyoy that 20 million dollar contract you are trying to negotiate.
Miss Bianca
@Raven Onthill: “We” are not all on the same side. “We” and “You and I” are not the same thing. Senator Sanders has made it clear that he’s prepared to trash Democrats in order to advance himself as the Great White Working Class Hope. I’m not “putting it away” just yet, thanks all the same. If he wants to be helpful, he can just shut the fuck up unless it’s to attack trumpism.
Raven Onthill
@Miss Bianca: Going to lose twice, if Clinton supporters that up.
Look: we did it your way and we lost everything. Why not try another way?
trollhattan
@Raven Onthill:
There it is. They’ll crash it just being themselves. No plan necessary (or desired). They’re set on looting the joint so they can all have private zoos [that one’s for BiP].
trollhattan
@D58826:
Gee Megyn, ya think? And what are you prepared to do about it, shill for Sarah?
Raven Onthill
@Chris T.: This macro analysis from Martin Wolf at FT looks relevant, and possibly correct (Brad Delong link) http://www.bradford-delong.com/2016/11/must-read-anything-wrong-with-this-analysis-i-cannot-see-anything-martin-wolf-_donald-trumps-false-promises.html
dogwood
@Roger Moore:
You are correct but this will fall on deaf ears here.
Laura on Kaua'i
@D58826: The US Code 3110 says no family members can be hired for a position in the same branch of government as the public servant, which includes President, Congress or the Judicial Branch. So the s-i-l (supposedly) can not be hired for any State Department position. I’m afraid they’ll find a way around that though, legal or not.
Roger Moore
@dogwood:
I’m not the only one around here saying it, so I know that some people are, and others are not, prepared to listen. But if you think it won’t go over well here, think about how badly it’s going to go over in those Rustbelt cities where people are still waiting for the high-paying blue collar jobs to come back, and are sure Trump will be the one to do it. People don’t believe because they don’t want to believe.
DWF
@Ridnik Chrome: Gang of Clowns is a great way to refer to that administration.
Roger Moore
@Laura on Kaua’i:
He’ll work as an unpaid intern. With all the money he’ll be able to make from those classified briefings, he can afford to forego a salary.
NR
@Miss Bianca: Well with America staring down the barrel.of the tremendous damage, destruction, and literal death that Trump and Congressional Republicans will bring about, it’s good to know that you have your sights set on what’s really important: shitting on Bernie Sanders.
With keen political instincts like yours, one wonders how the Democrats could have ever lost even one election, let alone as many as they did.
dogwood
@Miss Bianca:
The only hopeful thing about Bernie is that he is old. He can’t screw things up for decades. He got a pass from the media , the Clinton campaign and most people here. The Newsweek dump should give plenty people reason for concern, He ‘s got Weaver in his ear and Weaver sees dollar signs. What Weaver raked in compared to Robbie Mook is obscene.
DWF
@Betty Cracker: Oh! Great — thanks so much.
dogwood
@NR:
Bernie has his sights set on shitting on us. Weaver has his sights set on another 6 digit haul. Bernie was the first to say he wants to work with Trump. Didn’t surprise me in the least. The majority of his primary voters self-identified as moderate democrats.
NR
@dogwood:
But keep telling us about how horrible and evil he is. I’m sure that will be the golden ticket that finally turns the Democratic party’s electoral fortunes around.
Applejinx
@hovercraft:
My concern is simply this: Bernie was talking a lot of radical redistribution, without specifics or even much of a ‘and therefore we will stop the 1% having everything’. It was strictly, endlessly, ‘the 1% have everything, this is bad’ which is a prerequisite to ANY idea of fixing it.
I see Clinton’s intentions (remember, I did vote for her and got multiple Berniacs to do likewise) as incrementalist, wonky, within-the-system. I’m very sure from what she’s said and from how mainstream Democrats act (a huge number of ’em wealthy or retired or both) that she considers the system fundamentally sound. Her purpose was to cheerlead people to get retrained, to get up and fight for themselves rather than taking welfare, to be strengthened because their strength would translate into suitable employment and economic well-being.
I consider that structurally impossible. It’s like the digital economy, which I have more than ten years experience working directly inside, ten years without any protection or security, surviving on my wits and productivity. The times I did try to rely on government resources like food stamps, I found they were means-tested to hell and back, and didn’t work at all with a ‘new economy’ existence where my income could vary tenfold month by month.
I hoped Clinton might lean harder on producing an underlying social structure, a baseline. It would have helped me. However, the messaging I saw might have sounded good to classic post-Reagan liberals, but to me it was nonsense. I am already a working computer programmer running my own business. I’m one of the stronger competitors in my field, which is showing huge attrition year by year, and I’ve already outsurvived some major competitors. What more am I supposed to do, to get this security through retraining and gumption?
I see the problems as structural, and I saw Clinton’s economic promises as impossible. People could try to do what she suggested, and you know what? One in ten would succeed, gloriously. They’d be very happy with themselves and the system. The other nine would be back to square one, except they’d be exhausted and demoralized.
Clinton meant well, but what she intended to happen was impossible, as impossible as Trump’s wall. I voted for her anyway, but now is a very good time to get real since the Republicans err even more in the direction Clinton erred, with even less capacity to learn and adjust and even less willingness to bail out the very voters that put them in office. The danger we face is also an opportunity.
Just let go of this idea that Clinton’s economic plan was worth fighting for. At best it would have been a decent foundation to build incrementally on, NOT a final destination: at worst, it was set up for severe catastrophe, barely better in practice than what the Republicans want. We simply cannot ‘retrain America to be domestically competitive with the global workforce’. I am IN one of the pet industries for just such competitiveness and it’s an absolute crapshoot whether you even get by, much less make a stable career out of it.
hovercraft
@Raven Onthill:
FFS, the way an election works is simple, people throw their hats in the ring, they state their platform, then the voters decide who they want to vote for. We democrats, people who only come up when googled in terms of their contributions to democratic candidates over the years, voted, and we voted for the candidate we supported. Your candidate lost, he lost with the voters, because much as his supporters want to claim otherwise, we supported her. Your magic candidate promised pie in the sky, but was rejected by us the base. That’s how elections work. Your candidate just like the shitgibbon was never seen as a serious candidate by the media, so they basically ignored his record, he got a pass from them, he was used as a symbol to bash Hillary with. Apparently Obama and her splitting the party almost 50/50 in 2008 was not a sign of his weakness, but her more decisive victory against Bernie was. We saw all this and still chose her. Just like the fuckwits last week chose the shitgibbon and not her. The big difference is that she actually got more votes, so we are not just losers whining because our candidate didn’t convince enough people, she just didn’t convince enough people in the right places, and you and your ilk were still so bruised by the fact that we rejected your savior, that many of you refused to vote for her. And why wouldn’t they (you?) vote for her, because you bought into Bernie and the medias bullshit. She is a politician she lies, Bernie is a politician he lies, the shitgibbon is a pathological liar and a sociopath but apparently it’s not worth bothering to vote against because of bullshit. Bernie would have been savaged by the GOP and the press, women of color who are the backbone of this party have a relationship with Hillary and we turned out for her, many would not have turned up for him. So stop with the bullshit we did it your way now it’s our turn. This is the fucking democratic party, you are welcome to join, but don’t come into our house and try to tell us how to fucking run it. Suggestions are welcome, orders are not. If you want to create a new party, go ahead and see if you can get people to abandon the democrats for yours. We call ourselves a big tent because we are, but no one gets to decide they are more important than the rest of us, especially those who just got here 5 minutes ago.
dww44
@NR: I will have no part in normalizing Trump. The congress critters can try to come off as conciliatory as they’d like;maybe they have to. But, apparently the GOP has never been under any obligation to be conciliatory and Obama had way more of a mandate than this President does. So, why do Democrats have to sound so reasonable?
Applejinx
@Roger Moore:
This is exactly what I’m talking about, and it’s well underway. Bernie didn’t have a single answer for it beyond implied radical redistribution: which would work, but would be tough for Americans to wrap their heads around because they read that as ‘being huge welfare failure losers’.
It’s very much like this. I get to see into a variety of industries (tech, entertainment industry, even would you believe computer technical support of the finance sector?) and it’s starkly irresponsible to sell people on bettering themselves by making themselves competitive for the new industries and the new money-generators for the economy. These are not human things. It’s dishonest to pretend that aspiring to success there, is any sort of answer.
Raven Onthill
@hovercraft: Like most early Sanders supporters and Sanders himself, I supported Clinton once she became the nominee; you can do the same now that Sanders is working with you.
Do you want to win this thing?
dogwood
@NR:
I get it that you love Bernie. In 2008, as the campaign unfolded I didn’t get involved in the Clinton/Obama wars. I simply thought to myself please, please dems, don’t nominate John Edwards. I have the same mistrust of Bernie. If Sanders takes over the party and people like me are not welcome, I will move on. The country changes. I can be active in other ways.
Gin & Tonic
@Raven Onthill:
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Jim Parene
@cmorenc: Agreed. I lost everything I had as a result of Flood Insurance Fraud. I live on S.S. Medicare is my health care.
If Ryan and Shit Gibbon go after either of these programs, there should be no grandfathering of people my age. Poison Pills stating that all cuts and all changes should be included. The agony should go to everyone who voted for this.
I am ashamed of my generation. I am ashamed of being a white person.
Shana
@The Moar You Know: I just pray that Caro lives long enough to finish it.
Raven Onthill
@Gin & Tonic: Sanders went out campaigned for Clinton. The Senate Democrats gave him a leadership position. What other evidence that he is working with the Democratic Party would you like?
J R in WV
@GrandJury:
But Hillary actually won the popular election by over a million votes. The Rs used vote suppression, took people off the registered voter lists in key electoral states, the list of wrong doing goes on and on. But one thing they didn’t to, they didn’t win the election.
Just as in 2000, they stole it. For the second time, using different tactics but the same strategy, they stole the United States of America from the elected president and her party.
Fuckers!
@Miss Bianca:
If Senator Sanders wants to pretend to be a Democrat, that’s one thing. Pretending to be a “something else” more progressive and better than the Democratic party is something else again. Being the enemy of my enemy doesn’t make you a friend in every case.
I agree that except to fight the Rs, Sanders should STFU!
J R in WV
@goblue72:
Don’t forget, Bernie lost first, mostest, to Hillary. Who beat Donald J in the popular vote, not quite as badly as she beat Bernie, but still.
So maybe you should stop before you look even less aware than you already do. Bernie was and is the biggest looser. End of story.
Be careful, you can lose this ‘nym too.
Gin & Tonic
@Raven Onthill: How many downballot Democrats did he campaign for or raise funds for?
smintheus
Having to tell Americans “Don’t be afraid” is not normal either.
Ksmiami
@jibeaux: portions in cash. Some international currency. Then bare bones stock basics with healthy cash flow.
Ksmiami
@dww44: thinking about this the founding fathers did understand that governing authority comes from consent of the people. I do not consent to be governed by Trump and his disgusting progeny. I will never consent to being a mark for a con artist
sigyn
@DWF: If you follow the link to Foust’s original post, there are hot links for most items. Now, whether the person you’re arguing with accepts the reliability of those sources…
Best of luck to ya!