What are we gonna do now?

I almost never get email coming from the “contact a blogger” link on our front page but I got two yesterday.

One was saying, roughly, that we should focus on the real reason Hillary lost: turn-out. I agree with this completely: to me it’s pretty clear that all this high-tech big data magic that was supposed to help Hilary didn’t do shit, that there’s no substitute for real passion and enthusiasm.

The other one suggested “silent protests” of Trump where people gathered and remained completely silent. I’m not sure how that would work but I certainly agree that it’s important that the protests remain peaceful and orderly.

I’ll tell you what I’m going to do, I’m going to get more involved with grassroots local politics. I used to lead a local liberal meeting group and write a local blog and canvass a lot for local candidates. I burned out a lot after the main candidate I supported (Eric Massa) turned out to be a sexual assaulter, at least some of my co-bloggers turned out to be raging assholes, and many of my fellow meeting-goers became Obama-haters.

I’m also going to start reading Daily Kos more in place of establishment media. Yes, there’s a lot of crazies in the comments and diaries, but well, maybe we’re all crazies now.

Finally, I think this blog should do more to support and encourage IRL action, and I’m going to think about the best way to do that.

I’ll leave you with an amazing word-cloud I found on the Kos Abbreviated Pundit Round-up (via James Fallow via Digby):






299 replies
  1. 1
    Corner Stone says:

    Joy Reid’s show is a ripping good one so far this AM.

  2. 2
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m boycotting media – can you summarize?

  3. 3
    Corner Stone says:

    that there’s no substitute for real passion and enthusiasm.

    I’m tired of hearing about passion and enthusiasm and inspiration. IMO, if we had had another generic D president for the last 8 years, a proto-WJC or similar, and we had run Senator Obama this election I honestly believe he would not have won. The media would not have allowed him to be the inspiring orator we saw in 2008. He would have had the same kind of disparaging word cloud as shown above.
    He was a hell of a candidate in 2008, but the country was already running flat away from Bush and the R’s.

    ETA, not saying Obama was not a great candidate and I am not interested in arguing a counterfactual. Just saying the press and media did as much about “enthusiasm” and “inspiration” this time around as the candidate did.

  4. 4
    Corner Stone says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: She had a great opening, what Rev Barber later called a “lucid litany”. It was well worth watching her lay out what America got with this election.
    Now her first panel is on repealing ACA with a great set of guests who are calmly laying out rational discourse.

  5. 5
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    I’m going to get more involved with grassroots local politics.

    Yeah, me too. I’ll try the Washington Co Dems first but if they are a bunch of revanchist assholes I’ll go to the Franklin Co DEMs.

    And now I reall am done for the day.

  6. 6
    charluckles says:

    A complete failure by our media.

    Question. How do I motivate change in media when I don’t subscribe? I dropped my subscription to my local newspaper, the coverage got significantly worse. I don’t watch television, where’s my leverage?

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    I supported (Eric Massa) turned out to be a sexual assaulter,

    So, presidential material.

    I’m also trying to think about what more I can do. Thanks for this, Doug.

  8. 8
  9. 9
    Another Scott says:

    Local involvement is good.

    I’m probably going to try (Yoda-no-try.gif) to write more letters to my local community newspaper, to at least try to counter some of the noise from the RWNJ guy who has a letter in every.single.issue.

    I’m going to do what I can to support the team in the upcoming 2017 off-off-year Virginia elections. We still don’t have Medicaid Expansion in VA, and as long as Obamacare is the law of the land, we need to try to make it better by doing what we can at the state level.

    I’m going to make sure my Senators (Kaine, Warner) and Representative (Beyer) hear from me regularly so that they aren’t drowned in RWNJ propaganda without comments on the other side to try to balance them out.

    I’m also going to give as much as I can to organizations that try to make things better.

    I’m always going to try to keep my eyes on the prize. Yelling “I told you so, but you wouldn’t listen!” to my enthusiastic Trump-supporting friend in Dayton may be cathartic, but it won’t make things better.

    We may be in the wilderness for 2-4 years (or longer), but we can’t give up. Too many people’s lives and livelihoods are at stake. We need to be smart about how we move forward.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  10. 10
    MomSense says:

    New Yorker on Trump University.
    I realize that they didn’t have some of the sealed documents before but man they certainly had enough to run lots of stories about this before the election. Where the fuck was the local paper which happens to be the paper of record??? I hope one day we find out what the Russians had on the NYT.

    Fraud

  11. 11
    Brachiator says:

    @charluckles:

    A complete failure by our media.

    What do you expect the media to do for you?

    When has the media ever done what you expect it to do?

  12. 12
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @charluckles: Subscribe to media you like? Maybe the Guardian?

  13. 13
    gene108 says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Obama and McCain were statistically tied after the conventions, in 2008.

    It was not until after the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the on-set of the financial crisis that Obama got real separation, because he was clearly the grown-up in the room.

  14. 14
    Kay says:

    I always say this and I know it’s boring but Democrats have to win state races. What about just holding off on Grand National Theories and really focusing there for two years? It won’t hurt anything. The Congressional races are fundamentally skewed against Democrats next cycle anyway. The Grand National Theories are probably all wrong anyway – no one knows enough to be making these predictions or diagnoses. I know no one knows enough because they were all horribly wrong just last week. I’d ignore anyone who starts with “Democrats should…” on a national level. This CERTAINTY is bullshit.

    I don’t have any hope this will happen but it is what we should do. Just let DC take care of DC for a while. It’ll just be a holding and obstruction pattern there anyway and they’re big boys and girls. They’ll be fine as an opposition minority Party, which is what they are.

  15. 15
    WereBear says:

    There are so many great progressive outlets online, internet radio and television, real news without the lies.

    No need to go to the mass outlets. Since Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine, they have deteriorated to the present idiocy.

  16. 16
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    If nothing else, this election should have taught how thoroughly corrupt the news media is in the country. They will eat anything given them by the right and vomit it all over the country. I have no idea what to do, but we need to fix this. Boycotting them is probably not going to have enough of an effect. To me, the biggest failure of our elite media institutions is the New York Times.

  17. 17
    Redshift says:

    I’m already a precinct captain for the local Dems, and I do a lot of door-knocking for local campaigns. I need to figure out what I can do when those things don’t have a lot of activity, other than donations and clicktivism.

    I’m almost to the point where I can look at the data and figure out what’s actually different from what we expected. The thing that’s been most annoying on a low level (below the serious horrors at the top level) is watching so many people conclude that the election proves that (surprise!) we need to do exactly what they thought we needed to do before the election. I don’t want to do that, but I haven’t had the heart to take a deep look at the results yet.

  18. 18
    Poopyman says:

    Just re-found this:

    “The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the
    many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather
    of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

    To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people
    are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

    To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President
    should on no account be allowed to do the job.”

    ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

    I still miss that man.

  19. 19
    WereBear says:

    @gene108: Great news! Because there is sure to be another disaster coming along!

  20. 20
    WereBear says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: We could all do a great big class action suit against them.

  21. 21
    Betty Cracker says:

    Same boat, Doug; I got more blog-generated email since Tuesday than I’ve ever received.

  22. 22
    Starfish says:

    @Kay: I have enjoyed your comments so much.

    A lot of the national level chatter has been very silly because framing Clinton as this huge loser when the race was so tight just doesn’t make much sense to me. The whole Trump campaign was so unlike anything before it. I am not sure that “lessons learned” nationally will necessarily be useful for anything else. It’s a little like asking, “How can our Presidential candidate win a jello fight?”

  23. 23
    J. says:

    Speaking of turnout, here are the depressing numbers behind the 2016 presidential election (which include some very interesting stats) — and why it’s so important for people who lean Democrat (or don’t like what the Republicans have done/are doing) to a) register to vote and b) actually vote. And get others to.

  24. 24
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    Based on the word clouds in the above tweet, it would appear Krugman was right to scared of Hillary 2016 the re-Gorening.

  25. 25
    Kay says:

    There are ideological and historical reasons modern Democrats don’t focus on state government- we believe in a robust federal role and we have some history that “states rights” triggers but we can’t be a governing political party if we don’t run states. What about looking toward the southern states where Clinton was (somewhat) competitive to start a state focus? We could combine it with voting rights. Go in a different direction than accepting the conventional wisdom that it’s about white working class in the Great Lakes states. That’s kind of fighting the last war.

    It all went to shit so that’s an opportunity to take some risk, right?

  26. 26
    Mike J says:

    My LD flipped from two R to two D.

  27. 27
    NobodySpecial says:

    1) Focus on local and state races. Republicans have done this for decades, even to the point of School Boards and positions that they then consolidate, basically firing themselves. For too long in purple and light red areas, we’ve ignored local candidacies and the GOP has gotten entrenched.

    2) Disassociation from red state economies as much as possible. Disassociation from Republican donor class as much as possible. Hurt the pocketbook.

    3) Writing letters, even to the papers you don’t read. Part of the reason GOP thinking got internalized is because it hits them every day. We can’t wait for a liberal news network to save us, since no one with money will be able to start a successful one.

    4) The turnout battle is the worst part. The left in the Democratic Party feels too much effort has been spent pursuing center-right voters who are easily persuadable on the basis of a single issue to cross back to voting R or to become apathetic. Given that we lost 10 million voters between 2008 and 2016, that’s a hard argument to refute.

  28. 28
    WereBear says:

    Class action suit against the three major networks, CNN, Fox (of course) and just because they pissed me off so much, the New York Times.

    They damaged us. They must pay.

  29. 29
    Felanius Kootea says:

    Obviously, as Kay has pointed out, Democrats need to win more local and State races and build a pipeline in red states.

    We can also exploit Trump’s narcissism. This is a man who has a deep need to be admired. He’ll spend much of his presidency googling himself and reading news articles and tweets about himself, not just listening to his yes-people. He can be manipulated because of this.

  30. 30
    PhoenixRising says:

    The way we got the power to do good things back, when Obama was elected as our rebound from W, was by starting in Nov. 2004 before the votes had been counted and persisting in local politics.

    1) There are how many Governors up for election next fall? If we let 5 more go GOP, we’re going to lose a lot more than our health insurance and our international stature (losses that we are already promised). Governors can’t do a lot but they can stop a lot of bad stuff in your state. To make an orderly retreat from Obamacare and tuition reimbursement and all the Good Things we’ve had for the past 6 years, we need executives who will stop bad things.

    2) We need state legislators and governors to redistrict in 2020, or we are really in trouble. So: all politics is local. Know your state reps. If you live in a safe (gerrymandered D) district, find a friend who does not and dig there.

    3) Who counts the votes where you live? SOS? County recorder? Find out and get on their shit list (if GOP, because they have been suppressing votes, count on it, you just have to figure out how & whether it was illegal or merely un-American) or their helper list. Small ball is going to be critical. I observed some things that suggest Hillary lost Arizona due to shenanigans at the Maricopa County recorder (5 figures of voters, maybe 6 zeros, were told to take their ballots to the wrong places and it’s legal to throw those out).

    4) We need to be in landslide territory to beat the ballot box hijinks, which are existential for the other party. So I’m going to look at which community groups I can connect with to become the resident gadfly who makes everyone vote. If we all did that with 15 irregular voters for 2018…

    5) Don’t get distracted by the clown show. That’s what got us into this mess. Yes, Trump is a terrible person who knows nothing and has unleashed forces he doesn’t even understand in our society. That is true. But it’s also a distraction.

    What I’m not going to do, or encourage anyone to do: Protest, march on DC, petition, abolish the EC. These are distractions. Love you, chickadees, but we don’t have time for theater, we need to save the republic.

  31. 31
    buck2202 says:

    @J.: WaPo had an excellent graphic on vote-total swings the day after.

  32. 32
    PhoenixRising says:

    @Redshift: Same. I can’t look but there’s no point. Anyone who thinks they know what happened is rationalizing. And like marching on Washington, there is a time for complex rationalizations, but this ain’t it.

  33. 33
    Kay says:

    @Starfish:

    Oh, I’m mean. I was scaring the public employee Trumpsters down at the courthouse by telling them they’re all going down to 10 bucks and hour, no bennies, when the SCOTUS takes up the public employee union case again, which they will.

    I started the conversation to lead them there. Then I pounced. I’m still personally at the vengeance stage but (thankfully!) I’m shallow so I’ll be fine in a week.

  34. 34
    MomSense says:

    @WereBear:

    We need a lawyer to tell us if this is even possible.

  35. 35
    bk says:

    “Turnout”? Well, yes, but in a different way. Mine is not an original theory by any means, but it seems to me that the pictures of crowds and long lines during early voting and on the day itself were less of a show of enthusiasm in some places than they were representative of the fact that in MI, WI, OH and NC, states where Hillary polled in the lead, the Republican officials intentionally reduced the number of voting locations in D-leaning areas. So it wasn’t “enthusiasm” as much as it was suppression, and I would hazard a guess that a LOT of Hillary voters said fuck it, I can’t wait in this line for six hours, and went home.

  36. 36
    ding7777 says:

    Another reason for low turn-out could be: Why make the effort to go vote when the media and most of the polls had Hilary winning in a landslide?

  37. 37
    Gimlet says:

    There is something larger than just losing the Presidential election.

    Republicans have a majority in the Senate, House and 31 governorships.

  38. 38
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: Yep. I don’t know any well enough to ask. Will research that.

  39. 39
    Redshift says:

    @J.: It’s important to remember that depressing turnout is another deliberate Republican tactic. They wanted to make this election so ugly that voters wouldn’t want to be a part of it (and our awful media and our often-helpful satirical media gleefully went along, with “everyone just wants it to be over” stories.) That’s important to remember when trying to figure out what to do about turnout.

  40. 40
    Felanius Kootea says:

    Oh, and we can support Democrats like Foster Campbell whose Louisiana senate election is on December 9. I know it’s Louisiana, but if we can get him elected, the Senate will have 49 Dems+Ind and 51 Republicans. Lindsey Graham is on Trump’s “enemies list” per Omarosa. Won’t hurt for the Dems to court him now and then plus the Maine Republican. It might be easier to obstruct Trump’s agenda than people realize.

  41. 41
    WereBear says:

    @WereBear: To file a class action suit in NY, home of the media conglomerates:

    a. One or more members of a class may sue or be sued as representative parties on behalf of all if:
    1. the class is so numerous that joinder of all members, whether otherwise required or permitted, is impracticable;
    2. there are questions of law or fact common to the class which predominate over any questions affecting only individual members;
    3. the claims or defenses of the representative parties are typical of the claims or defenses of the class;
    4. the representative parties will fairly and adequately protect the interests of the class;  and
    5. a class action is superior to other available methods for the fair and efficient adjudication of the controversy.
    b. Unless a statute creating or imposing a penalty, or a minimum measure of recovery specifically authorizes the recovery thereof in a class action, an action to recover a penalty, or minimum measure of recovery created or imposed by statute may not be maintained as a class action.
    – See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/ci.....jJAf2.dpuf

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    Here’s a controversial suggestion. Maybe if all us savvy people don’t spend three and a half years talking about how much the Democratic Party sucks, we don’t have to spend the last six months of a presidential election trying to tell voters “never mind.”

  43. 43
    Kay says:

    I’m thrilled Trump is giving his children positions choosing his crony cabinet. That’s banana republic stuff, and people will know it. I hope the son in law makes a lot of public appearances.

    Just gross people. They’re literally planning on running this as some kind of fucked up royal family. Disgusting.

    He’s not even planning on living in the White House. Not luxe enough and private enough for the special snowflake Donald Trump. This is a fucking coup by one horrible family. The sons make my skin crawl.

  44. 44
    Emma says:

    @Kay: this. It starts at the local level.

  45. 45
    ThresherK says:

    @buck2202: “Stayed home” or “were suppressed”?

    @Redshift: ^What you said, before I did. When an R is leading, the air in the press is like coronating a fucking monarch, and the healing and hagiography begin with the concession speech.

  46. 46
    gogol's wife says:

    @Kay:

    He’s said he’s not going to live in the White House?

  47. 47
    gogol's wife says:

    @Redshift:

    Every time I heard that line I just wanted to scream!

  48. 48
    PhoenixRising says:

    @MomSense: It…is not.

    We got outmaneuvered by a party with no ideas, ethics or limits in their final battle. They had to win. The accessories to the crimes are in county boards of election, not at Times Square. We have to do 2 things right now and in order to steer through the curves we can’t be looking in the rear view:

    1) Identify and expose the obvious law-breaking. The POUTUS-elect (Billion-Dollar Baby? I’m working on options) is a one-man crime spree. He has been since grade school and until now, daddy’s money has always shielded him from the consequences. GOP leaders hate and fear him. Impeachment should be our goal, and quickly.

    2) Make the press attend to the real issue: Trump knows nothing and believes nothing and told lies he doesn’t even recall on the trail. He has no policy ideas or ideology, and is surrounded by incompetence. One thing our press corpse does well is manufacture scandal. This is more an instance of recognizing it when it’s in front of them. They are chastened and horrified by what they did–appropriately–so nudge them constantly toward the stream of conflicts of interest, white collar crimes and broken promises to the suckers who got played.

  49. 49
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @NobodySpecial: Why don’t we wait until the 6 million outstanding ballots are counted, and analyze the voting patterns then? There are four million votes from CA that have not yet been counted. Of course we want to improve turnout but let’s find out what it really was for 2016. The counting isn’t done yet.

  50. 50
    J. says:

    @buck2202: Thanks! Will check it out.

  51. 51
    buck2202 says:

    @ThresherK: “Stayed home” or “were suppressed”?

    That’s a fair question, but I for sure view the idea of a massive shift vs. 2012 among those who did/could vote as a myth.

  52. 52
    Duke's Archives says:

    Joy Reid is wonderful, so cherish her before they tell her what for!

  53. 53
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Kay: There’s another reason we want to win more state races. If the Republicans get enough states they’ll call a Constitutional convention. People think Trump winning is bad, sheeeeeeit, wait ’til they see the aftermath of that.

  54. 54
    J. says:

    @Redshift: Excellent point. Maybe I should have called the post “The depressing — and depressed — numbers behind the 2016 election.”

  55. 55
    martian says:

    Is there a basis for challenging the outcome of this election? It’s been years now, but I remember hearing at the time of the Bush-Gore catastrophe that the Bush team was actually anticipating winning the popular but losing the electoral vote, and so they had teams of lawyers already to go to contest the election. Is there any legal argument that a court wouldn’t automatically dismiss?

    Not that I expect Dems to do this since our team values preserving the norms, but I’m pretty fucking tired of us being the noble losers. How do we become the junkyard dogs of democracy without losing our souls? What kind of actions should we be turning to on a local level that grow the resistance but don’t increase the herd of purity ponies? I don’t know. I’m sure I sound half incoherent. I’m having trouble sleeping.

  56. 56
    WereBear says:

    @PhoenixRising: We impeach him, we get Pence. Who ruined Indiana and probably can’t wait to nuke Israel so Jesus comes right back.

  57. 57
    Aleta says:

    Those word clouds are paintings that people like Giulianni and Ldowski are allowed to create on national news.

  58. 58
    Baud says:

    @Aleta: And Andrea Mitchell.

  59. 59
    Kay says:

    I’m also planning on watching the libertarian Right sit on their hands while Trump violates every authoritarian and transparency norm.

    We haven’t heard a peep out of Rand Paul this whole cycle. So much for “checks and balances”. They’re good and obedient Republicans and they have always been that.

  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Ha! I was just thinking that the other day. Amazing how quickly that whole movement vanished.

  61. 61
    WereBear says:

    @martian: I think we should: it could be as simple as Trump not being qualified.

    Republicans are always relying on us to clear up their messes. Maybe we should just start early.

  62. 62
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: I’ve got such deep and abiding contempt for the whole bunch that I surprise myself; I don’t usually bother to despise strangers that much, even loathsome tools like the Bushes. Gross. Disgusting. Horrible.

    It’s like a nightmare. The only thing to look forward to will be watching them get pilloried for the many fuck-ups and scandals that are surely coming.

  63. 63
    jacy says:

    Y’all do know there’s one more Senate seat up for grabs, right? December 10th is the runoff election in Louisiana for Vitter’s seat. Kennedy (supported by Vitter) versus Campbell (supported by Democratic Governor John Bel Edwards.) I’m not optimistic, but I’m going to do what I can to get people out to vote.

  64. 64

    We can blame each other, or we can accept responsibility ourselves to fix it.
    My son is terrified for his LGBTQ friends. My daughter is worried about her future with Crohn’s disease.
    Here’s what I’ve told anyone who asked:
    “You can stand in place, frozen in fear and they’ll dance in your guts, or you can fight. Those are your only two courses of action.”
    I went down to the county Democratic party office about a week back and made phone calls.
    I’m going back in a couple of weeks.

  65. 65
    Kay says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    The harbinger of what was coming in the Great Lakes states wasn’t nominating Hillary Clinton. It was the bleeding in those states at the state level. Three two-term GOP governors in Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.

  66. 66
    Cacti says:

    Donald Trump is the worst loser of the popular vote to ever “win” the presidency.

    2 million more people voted for Clinton than to him.

    No mandate/not my President. No quarter for a POTUS that doesn’t speak for a majority of the country.

  67. 67
    Poopyman says:

    Frankly, I hope he doesn’t live in the White House. There’s not enough disinfectant in the world to delouse that place if he lived there his (hopefully short) term.

    I’m just worried that the new administration will somehow find a press secretary who’s facile enough to put a sheen of respectability on the whole criminal enterprise. Then the press corpse would happily go back to their comfortable role of stenography and the country would resume complacence.

  68. 68
    aimai says:

    @Corner Stone: I agree with this. HRC was defeated by 30 years of slander, putin, wikileaks, the FBI, a complacent adn compromised press, Fox news, and white racism. She won the popular vote–there was no lack of passion for her on our side–I was damned passionate about her. But there was counter passion on the other side, deep hatred of Obama/liberals, deep hatred for Bill and Hillary precisely because they were avatars of liberalism/elitism/democrats. Any other successful candidate on the democratic side would have been equally tarred, attacked, and destroyed beause the hatred on the other side was just that passionate–Bernie would have been eaten alive as a Jew with a non traditional background, child from a previous relationship, and all his family baggage.

  69. 69
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Kay: And the re-election of Brownback after he shitcanned the state.

  70. 70
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: The libertarian left didn’t exactly cover itself in glory either. Greenwald & Co. were too busy quivering in outrage and shrieking “neo-McCarthyite” at anyone who found the Trump-Putin-WikiLeaks connection troubling. Tools.

  71. 71
    WereBear says:

    @Betty Cracker: Let’s hope we have enough of a functioning government to do that. Because when Republicans are in charge of investigating Republicans, we all know what happens.

    That is why I have this terrible sense of urgency. The press were part of how he got in, the flippin’ head of the FBI screwed with the election, NO ONE in the Republican party were able to do anything about it.

    It is why I am still at DEFCON 1.

  72. 72

    If Trump keeps staging rallies, he may find that people who were at the Clinton rallies will now be at his.

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    Libertarians are fine with authoritarians as long as the authoritarian cuts taxes and guts regulation. They marched along like good soldiers all thru the Bush years.

  74. 74
    MomSense says:

    My son is about to take my Twitter away because he says I will bring a world of harassment and worse on myself if I tweet Michael Moore and tell him he’s a straight up racist.

    Who made it possible for the kids of those poor working class whites to have health insurance for those decades before the ACA? Why that elite Hillar Clinton and the Democrats.
    What about the ACA that saved many of our lives? Obama and the Democrats.
    What else have those Democratic elites done?

    Medicaid
    Medicare
    Social Security
    OSHA
    Unemployment insurance
    Food stamps
    Can we talk about the auto bailout? Where would the working class whites in Michigan he lives so much be without that elitist Democratic assistance?
    No one has benefited more than the working class whites and he has the gall to say we didn’t or does he also believe they helped those undeserving blahs and browns just like all the other racist assholes who voted for Trump.
    As my son says, Michael Moore is a piece of shit who revealed himself a long time ago. But peddling his racist BS is gonna get him lots of media gigs from people like Joe Scarborough who is definitely not an elitist and who has always championed the poor white working class.

  75. 75
    Jacel says:

    One of the most inspiring things I’ve seen on Balloon Juice over the years have been threads sharing front pager and reader experiences, day to day, of working on local campaigns. More of that, especially in a long buildup for elections in 2018, would be great to empansize here.

  76. 76
    Peale says:

    @Betty Cracker: they feel like they’ve averted a war, but they’ll be surprised to find that they’ve brought back torture and much much more.

  77. 77
    WereBear says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: And they say we are overblown with the Hitler comparisons!

  78. 78
  79. 79
    PhoenixRising says:

    @WereBear: He’s a bog standard GOP governor: Wants me to have the freedom to practice his religion and dumber than a bag of hammers. Still better than Trump.

    I’m sensing that some of you have not yet quite processed what has happened: Trump is a Russian-owned ignoramus bankrupt vulture capitalist who is also a serial abuser of women and a racist xenophobe. During the election we focused on the second half. That failed.

    Now we have to confront the first part: Literally any other Republican, possibly excepting Ted Cruz, would be more predictable. There is no knowing what he’s going to do, and that buys us some time. But he said last night that he want to ‘keep doing rallies’. Maybe the deep state can get a leash on him before January. He chewed through the last one though.

  80. 80
    buck2202 says:

    @buck2202: That’s a fair question, but I for sure view the idea of a massive shift vs. 2012 except among those who did/could vote as a myth.

    Too late to edit, but I misstated my point above.

  81. 81
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @PhoenixRising:

    But he said last night that he want to ‘keep doing rallies’.

    Talk about a nexus for some real ugly things to happen.

  82. 82
    Kay says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Is he still planning on holding rallies as Dear Leader? Awesome. That’s appropriately dictatorial and developing county-like. CNN will play them for 4 hours a day.

    He should wear a uniform and put the sons and son in law in one too. They can invent a crest, and medals.

  83. 83
    Cacti says:

    @Kay:

    Libertarians are fine with authoritarians as long as the authoritarian cuts taxes and guts regulation. They marched along like good soldiers all thru the Bush years.

    Yep.

    The “small government” right believe it’s a righteous exercise of police power of the state to beat and jail minorities for refusing to give up their seat at a segregated lunch counter, because private property uber alles.

  84. 84

    We need to boycott the MSM. Crowdfund our own TV channel. Its doesn’t have to spread lies like Fox News but keep people better informed. NYT, CNN push Republican narratives and have done so for quite some time.

  85. 85
    MomSense says:

    @aimai:

    She only lost Wisconsin by fewer than 14,000 votes and 30 were disenfranchised by that state’s new restrictive voter laws.

    Omnes isn’t exactly known for being a wild conspiracy theorist and he has said it.

  86. 86
    Duke's Archives says:

    I just want to add that I’ve been reading this site for years and having a community like this really, really helps my sanity!

  87. 87
    martian says:

    @WereBear: Yeah, the election doesn’t get certified until December, right? But is there a legal argument? I wonder how the Bushies were going to go at it. At the very least, it throws mud on every thing, and I can’t see why we shouldn’t. This outcome is bullshit. No, we didn’t lose fair and square, and there are no more norms to preserve. Democratic leadership has so internalized the IOKIYAR.

  88. 88
    Betty Cracker says:

    @WereBear: Yeah, I’m still there myself. But maybe our saving grace will be that Trump and his horrid family just aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are, and they have zero relevant experience. Their fuckups may be so massive that it won’t take a congressional investigation to uncover them. They’ve got a putsch. If they can keep it!

  89. 89
    Corner Stone says:

    I like most of Charlie Pierce’s work but I have no idea why Joy included him on a panel with Foreign Policy experts.

  90. 90
    wasabi gasp says:

    Make more airplane sounds when force feeding them a yicky candidate.

  91. 91
    Chris says:

    @Corner Stone:

    IMO, if we had had another generic D president for the last 8 years, a proto-WJC or similar, and we had run Senator Obama this election I honestly believe he would not have won. The media would not have allowed him to be the inspiring orator we saw in 2008. He would have had the same kind of disparaging word cloud as shown above.

    I think I agree with you. By 2008, the U.S. was in so much deep shit, particularly in the last couple months of the election, that even the mainstream media couldn’t bring itself to cover for Bush or McCain, especially when McCain turned out to be such a clown himself. Heck, plenty of Republicans couldn’t even defend it anymore.

    By 2012, they were back to their normal role as Republican stenographers, but Obama had a record by then and so did his opponents. And Romney was an uninspiring candidate to say the least.

  92. 92
    burnspbesq says:

    @MomSense:

    It’s not.

  93. 93
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Betty Cracker: And let’s not forget his followers, who are watching, watching. That Wall better be under construction pretty damn soon. Boy are they going to be mad at the end of Trump’s term.

  94. 94
    mai naem mobile says:

    You want to know what you do? You block and gum up the works for the other side. Even sabotage the other side. And you hold them accountable. Don’t let them blame stuff on Obama/Clinton or any Democrat. Period. Be proud of Obama. Do not let them turn his legacy into a false narrative.

  95. 95
    Kay says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    Someone should tell him Americans don’t usually hold rallies to support Dear Leader. We’re going to get 4 hours a week of Donald Trump on stage bellowing lies before an adoring crowd? Does he see anything wrong with that idea? Remind him of anything?

    I don’t know, man. We better find an institution that hasn’t collapsed, and quickly. This is rolling downhill fast.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Angrifon says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I agree with the sentiment of boycotting media, however the most effective method of punishing the media is paying very close attention to the programming and boycotting the specific advertisers who sponsor the offensive content. This is what killed Rush Limbaugh.

  98. 98
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Kay: A total Cult of Personality.

  99. 99
    Another Scott says:

    @jacy: No, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.

    Foster Campbell 2016.

    I just donated.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100
    burnspbesq says:

    Litigation is going to be an important tool in slowing down the assault on our values.

    If you already give to ACLU/NRDC/NAACP/SPLC, give more. If you don’t, start now.

  101. 101
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Kay: Also, all the institutions that were supposed to keep this from happening have already failed so…..

  102. 102
    p.a. says:

    Here’s my new state Rep:

    . In a voice of anti-incumbent sentiment, House Majority leader John DeSimone (D) was defeated by political newcomer Marcia Ranglin-Vassell in the Democratic primary. DeSimone, who first one election in 1992, was the target of mailers by an anti-gun violence group. Former Hasbro Chairman and CEO Alan Hassenfel contributed $87,500 to the group.[2] Out of the four candidates targeted by the mailer, DeSimone and incumbent Jan Malik (D) were defeated. DeSimone’s challenger Ranglin-Vassell focused her campaign on DeSimone’s past 24 years in office and “issues like gun violence, underperforming schools, and a lack of jobs for young people.”[3] Ranglin-Vassell said that she was not surprised by her win. She said, “The people sided with me. This election was about a choice: do you want to stay in the past 24 years, or do you want to move to the future, and they sided with me.”

    She won the general 60-19-18 (her primary opponent ran as a write-in and outpolled the R by 1%). Maybe I’ll see what kind of help she might need. Here in RI the only threat to Dems statewide are old New England style Repubs, and they’re gonzo. State R party is not Oklahoma wingnutty, but it is wingnutty.

  103. 103
    WereBear says:

    I do blame working class whites. They gave us pResident Trump by voting for him.

    But I also blame the complacent middle class. You know the ones I mean. The ones who may not be Trump supporters, but they have been so cheerful all week, patting us on our widdle heads and saying things like He’s a good businessman, He only said that to get elected, and All the church people I know just love him.

    They tend to be white males with good jobs or professionals and that certainty that whatever shakes out, they will be fine.

    But, yanno, world economic collapse or nuclear war will not skip them just because they live in a good zip code. It seems the epitome of white man privelege that they think it will.

  104. 104
    Cacti says:

    My ideal situation that will never happen:

    Hillary appeals directly to the electors that by winning 2 million more votes, Trump could not possibly call himself a legit choice of the people. Nothing in the Constitution binds electors to the popular vote outcome of their individual states (or nationally). States with faithless elector laws impose a chump change fine and their validity is constitutionally questionable. So, Hilz should argue electors should correct an obvious aberration in the preliminary result.

    But, like I said, she conceded already. Nah guh happen.

  105. 105
    CaseyL says:

    The ACLU ran a full-page ad in the NYT telling Donnie he better watch his back because they’re going to be watching him like a bug under a microscope. So donating to the ACLU, big time, seems like a good idea. Make sure they have the attorneys and funds to bring lawsuits. And, yes, I know that might not mean anything once Trump is done with the SCOTUS. But the ACLU is the best we’ve got.

    Other than that, I’m inclined to focus on local politics. Washington is already blue; I want it to be even bluer. The eastern half of the state is pretty red because its economy relies on the extraction industries; I’m not sure what to do about that. I do want our Governor and State Lege to protect us from what Trump’s Administration will get up to. That might mean reviving Sanctuary Cities; it will certainly mean going toe to toe with the Feds if they want to open wilderness areas and national parks to development.

    Once Trump names a SCOTUS judge, all bets regarding another voters rights case are off. Voter suppression is already “Constitutional” as long as it has the fig-leaf of suppressing a particular political party’s votes rather than their demographics. How they reasoned this is entirely beyond me, because it makes no sense: the logical outcome of that reasoning is to outlaw Democratic votes altogether, which for all I know may be the next step.

  106. 106
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    I always say this and I know it’s boring but Democrats have to win state races.

    This was my concern all through the Obama years. Democrats were looking okay at the national level, but very much not at the state or local level, and also not at the grassroots/outside-of-electoral-politics-per-se level (which is to say, what’s our equivalent of the New Deal coalition’s unions or the Reagan coalition’s fundamentalist church networks?)

  107. 107
    buck2202 says:

    @MomSense: The number I remember was 300k for Wisconsin. That was pre-primary, and the number stuck around. I’m not sure how much of it (if any) changed before the general.

  108. 108
    PhoenixRising says:

    @burnspbesq: Yes, fund your national outside agitator orgs.

    Please consider MALDEF, Lambda Legal and the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR) also.

    These organizations held the line for the rights of all Americans through the Reagan/Bush I years and again through W’s administration. They have been in this hole and know the way out.

  109. 109
    Duke's Archives says:

    @Corner Stone: Charlie Pierce does “Flabbergasted” with the best of them.

  110. 110
    Aleta says:

    Der Horror-Clown ist hier.

    New Yorker (photo of overseas front pages)

  111. 111
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: I’m thrilled Trump is giving his children positions choosing his crony cabinet. That’s banana republic stuff, and people will know it. I hope the son in law makes a lot of public appearances.
    Just gross people. They’re literally planning on running this as some kind of fucked up royal family. Disgusting.

    There’s a clip going around MSNBC of Ivanka talking about the “blind trust” that is neither, and I was struck by how much she talks like her father. She doesn’t have the bridge-and-tunnel (think I’m using that right) accent or the gross alpha-ape-cum-Jackie-Mason (can’t think of a better descriptor) inflections and facial expressions, but her language is the same: We’ll do great deals, some deals we won’t even if they’re economically great” she means financially. There was also her announcement about their child care plan “No one has ever given this issue so much thought…” or something like that. She really is her father’s daughter.

    Shorter me: She’s very attractive, but by no means the coming political star that so many people gush/worry about. I hope she’ll wear as thin as the meatheads Uday and Qusay already have.

  112. 112
    Corner Stone says:

    “We have weaponized white fear in this election.”
    /Heather McGhee on AMJoy

  113. 113
    Kay says:

    Someone who works in the federal government told me Trump can’t appoint his the sons and son in law to positions of power because if he did they would have to disclose information on Trump Family holdings and doings and that would expose Donald Trump since they all work for Big Daddy.

    I was comforted by that until I realized they can run the government without any official title or regulation of any kind.

    It’s worse.

  114. 114
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @MomSense:

    The failure of the white left to understand the racism at the root of every single policy fight, and outcome, is as big as the failure of the media – in fact, it’s the same failure. This election in every one of its aspects was a referendum on white supremacy. The fact that the media treated Clinton’s alt-right speech as a one day story was everything. There can be no populist movement in a majority white country that doesn’t become white nationalism. It amazes me how that Clinton got the popular vote, but it was less than a majority of whites, as usual, and I don’t see that changing.

  115. 115
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @DougJ: Clampdown? “Taking off his turban, they said, “Is this man a Jew?”

  116. 116
    Mark Field says:

    She only lost Wisconsin by fewer than 14,000 votes and 30 were disenfranchised by that state’s new restrictive voter laws.

    She lost WI by 24,000, but your point stands. She lost MI by 13,000. The fact that she’s going to win nationwide by 1.5-2 million apparently counts for nothing against the 102,000 votes that would have flipped those two states plus PA.

    I see several comments above complaining about turnout. Turnout was up from 2012. And Hillary won nationwide by a pretty sizable margin (more than JFK, for example, or than Nixon in 1968). She — we — got screwed by the EC. Again.

  117. 117
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Media needs to stop letting the Trump Family lie about “blind trust”. That’s a phrase that has meaning. Ivanka is lying.

    Call her out on it. They’re putting it in a trust. Nothing “blind” about it. I mean Jesus Christ, is this starting already?

    These people lie constantly. STOP repeating what they say. They are already failing at this. How hard is it ask someone what “blind trust” means? They make millions of dollars a year on these cable shows. Do some WORK.

  118. 118
    RedDirtGirl says:

    I would love to see local BJ meet-ups become a regular outlet for activism, letter-writing, etc. I live in Brooklyn and would be happy to work on coordinating one in my area!

  119. 119
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @PhoenixRising: He wants to keep doing rallies because he’s a narcissist who likes feeding off the adulation of a crowd. As a sitting president though, all have to be welcome at his rallies (it can’t just be Republicans) and we should get the Dem turnout higher than his base with signs letting him know exactly what we think of him. He really hasn’t thought that one through.

  120. 120
    Cacti says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    The failure of the white left to understand the racism at the root of every single policy fight, and outcome, is as big as the failure of the media – in fact, it’s the same failure.

    The first post-election piece from Gail Collins was that we shouldn’t assume the voters for the overtly racist campaign are, you know, actually racist and stuff.

    I’m more from the “if someone tells you who they are, believe them” school of thought.

  121. 121
    Corner Stone says:

    I was just thinking that even though GWB says he did not vote for Trump, Trump is as much a part of the W legacy as the Iraq War and Katrina. Proud thanks to Chief Justice John Roberts and his “balls and strikes” legislative mien, we have a gutted VRA in our fantastic post-racial society.
    Thanks, W!

  122. 122
    MomSense says:

    @buck2202:

    Omnes said it was the same number. Even if the number were 150,000 and the margin is less than 15,000 that’s enough right?

  123. 123
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: There are also federal anti-nepotism laws (passed in 1967 as a result of JFK appointing RFK to be Attorney General).

    But, as you say, there very well could be “man behind the throne”-type arrangements.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  124. 124
    Doug! says:

    @RedDirtGirl:

    That sounds great. Drop me an email.

  125. 125
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay:

    I was comforted by that until I realized they can run the government without any official title or regulation of any kind.

    They are going to do what De Niro’s character did in C@s!no. He kept changing job titles so his application to the NV enforcement board had to be reshuffled to the bottom of the deck and start all over again.
    But also, they don’t give a shit about the disclosure laws. Who the F is going to make them fill out those forms?

  126. 126
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Is Ivanka telling us that her family will forget what property they own and the debts they owe?

    Is she aware that her father is now promoting the business they own on the transition website?

    We’re really going to be relying upon Ivanka Trump’s personal ethical boundaries? Does she think she’s a princess?

    Why am I employing her husband? Is he the prince?

  127. 127
  128. 128
    Chris says:

    @Poopyman:

    I’m just worried that the new administration will somehow find a press secretary who’s facile enough to put a sheen of respectability on the whole criminal enterprise. Then the press corpse would happily go back to their comfortable role of stenography and the country would resume complacence.

    No need. The Trump administration is already completely normalized as far as the media is concerned. It’s barely been four days and the only thing I can fucking hear anywhere is either about the need to do some soul searching and reach out to the deplorables, or that we should all take a chill pill because it’s not going to be so bad and the world isn’t ending.

  129. 129
  130. 130
    Kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Who the F is going to make them fill out those forms?

    The incredibly principled GOP Congress, that’s who. The same people who cowered in fear of Donald Trump the last 2 years. The venal and corrupt members of the GOP. They’re our check and balance.

    We’re RACING to the bottom. We fell thru the net of the “GOP Congress” last year. They’re already gone.

  131. 131
    Kay says:

    @Chris:

    that we should all take a chill pill because it’s not going to be so bad and the world isn’t ending.

    Which is exactly what they said when he violated every norm prior to this and amassed more and more power. They’re waiting on a cavalry that isn’t coming. They’re fools and they’re not credible.

  132. 132
    Corner Stone says:

    Oh shit. I had somehow forgot about the Estate Tax now going to go away.

  133. 133
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    Libertarians are fine with authoritarians as long as the authoritarian cuts taxes and guts regulation. They marched along like good soldiers all thru the Bush years.

    The fact that the militia movement spiked all through the Clinton years, but essentially went dormant in the Bush years despite the vast number of things that qualified as “government overreach” and “assault on civil liberties,” to me, pretty much gives the game away.

    As I’ve been saying for years, on the day the government actually does go fascist, the NRA types won’t be the Wolverines taking up arms against the oppressive government. They’ll the brownshirts chasing down and rounding up every Undesirable, in cooperation with the state security goons.

  134. 134
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: Hayes, Maddow and O’Donnell all hammered on that last night, and it’s all over the internet. Chuck Todd and his like will mention it briefly before getting back to important issues like optics and the soap opera of his stumble bum transition team.

    Can’t find it right now, but Jared Kushner, the smart one, asked how many White House staff would be staying on with the next administration.

  135. 135
    jah says:

    @buck2202: This Nation article is a bit sloppy in that the number is 330k eligible voters (according to the linked source), not registered like it claims. Would think that the number of voters disenfranchised is on the order of 1000s, so low D turnout in WI (~230k less D votes than 2012) cannot alone be attributed to voter suppression.

  136. 136
    Starfish says:

    @gogol’s wife: Here is a link.

    Mr. Trump, a homebody who often flew several hours late at night during the campaign so he could wake up in his own bed in Trump Tower, is talking with his advisers about how many nights a week he will spend in the White House. He has told them he would like to do what he is used to, which is spending time in New York when he can.

    The future first lady, Melania Trump, expects to move to Washington. But the couple’s 10-year-old son, Barron, is midway through a school year in New York, and it is unclear when the move would happen.

  137. 137
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay:

    what property they own and the debts they owe?

    What debts? I foresee a hell of a lot of debt forgiveness in the Trump company’s future. You think some entity is going to harass the company owned by the POTUS for piddling amounts of money?
    The Trump family just got really fucking rich by benefit of shedding a hell of a lot of owed money.

  138. 138
    martian says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Clinton’s alt-right speech turned into a he said / she said in the reporting of it. “Clinton and Trump exchange charges of racism.” That was a goddamn brave and responsible speech.

    Clinton laid it all out and was ignored. She had the Mothers of the Movement up on that convention stage, and I’m sure it cost her votes and police union endorsements, but it was the right thing to do. And right through the end of this election we have to contend with leftier-than-thous yawning and sneering about Clinton being an uninspiring, neoliberal corporatist. The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

  139. 139
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Kushner is getting ready for the big purge. White Trump loyalists only.

    I’m so fucking sick of being scolded like this:

    ian bremmerVerified account
    ‏@ianbremmer
    Trump will be our President and we need him to succeed. The alternative is far worse.
    Obama one of very few Dems who understands this.

    None of them said a word when the GOP declared war on Obama the moment he was elected

    Why do Democrats have to be the grownups to GOP children? I’m not the national mommy. Why do I have duties Republican voters don’t have? They want to burn it down. I’m not going into the burning building they lit to rescue them.

    They can save themselves. I’m busy taking care of me and mine.

  140. 140
    MomSense says:

    @WereBear:

    Clinton won working class whites. So did Obama twice. The media know this yet they are pushing this falsehood so they can fool people into thinking this was economic anxiety and not racism. Moore wants to do this because like all the other progressives who view all of this as a class struggle it serves their agenda.

  141. 141
    arrieve says:

    @Kay:

    I think this is right. We have 2018 and 2020 to focus on the states. Then the census. Even if you want to make DC the focus — and I think we should focus on that as well, making sure that every rep has a qualified opposing candidate — the state legislatures have enormous power after the census.

  142. 142
    Kay says:

    Can we get some immediate oversight on whether the Trump Family plan on following federal law when hiring?

    I’m afraid it will be “whites only need apply” and I don’t want to pay for that. Later will be too late. We know they’re racists. They told us they are.

  143. 143
    Corner Stone says:

    I’ve been basically numb/angry the last few days but now seeing all the blather about “teh transition” it’s starting to wrap all around me that this is really it. There aren’t any laws that matter. No media to hold them accountable. No checks from a compliant Congress. The highest court in the land about to go RWNJ for the end run. A huge chunk of the citizenry not only ok with it but eager to see a dictator who says what they want to hear.

    ETA, I forgot to specifically mention the FBI as well as large pockets of local LEO also on board the program.
    Mein Gott!

  144. 144
    nastybrutishntall says:

    @RedDirtGirl: Hear that. What app maybe could we use to post these things? Maybe a FB page calendar?

  145. 145
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: This.

  146. 146
    buck2202 says:

    @jah: Agreed that the 300k+ seems soft; I just had seen that number repeated throughout the past few months rather than 30k and wondered if it was just an accidentally dropped zero in posts here.

    @MomSense: Absolutely. Vox is taking a contrarian position on whether voter suppression swung the election in sum (and its influence generally), but they do single out WI as a possibility.

  147. 147
    burnspbesq says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    alpha-ape-cum-Jackie-Mason

    Win.

  148. 148
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    There’s a lot to be said for comparing American politics to an abusive relationship.

  149. 149
    Kay says:

    @arrieve:

    Democrats have good reasons to be less focused on state government- we’re the robust federal Party, ideologically and in (modern) history but we can get a lot done at the state level on civil rights which is an emergency because Trump and the GOP will be gutting or ignoring civil rights at the federal level.

    The states will be where we can “hold the line”

  150. 150
    Jinchi says:

    there’s no substitute for real passion and enthusiasm.

    I think this is exactly right and it speaks to mistakes the Democratic Party made this election.

    It was clear from the start that the party elite had cleared the field for Hillary Clinton. This was the first chance in 8 years for an ambitious Democrat to run for the presidency and nobody was showing up. Instead we got two former Republicans, a little known former governor, and an Independent from Vermont.

    No offense to him, but I doubt that the 75 year-old Bernie Sanders imagined he was going to be the standard bearer for the liberal wing of the Democratic party this year. We should thank him for proving that there is a real hunger for left-wing ideas. I don’t even fault Clinton, since a candidate’s job is to get herself elected.

    But the party’s job is to win the presidency and they lost sight of that when they decided they wanted to skip the whole nomination part of the contest.

  151. 151
    Corner Stone says:

    @martian:

    That was a goddamn brave and responsible speech.

    I agree. I don’t think history will properly record how fucking brave that was. That took guts.
    After a rocky start HRC and her campaign mostly did the brave, right thing wrt blacks, minorities and others.
    To whinge that she was not inspiring or didn’t push your feels button the right way. Fuck that shit.

  152. 152
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @martian:

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    Bingo !

  153. 153
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @martian:

    White America is deeply deeply racist, and benefits from white supremacist patriarchy in a way that they don’t even grok. Even when pointed out to those that apprehend it, there’s a yeah, but, but but, economics first (for whites) then we’ll fix racism. Trump was endorsed BY THE KKK, and it wasn’t even a one day media story, because the extremely mediocre white/male media understand they’re the biggest beneficiaries of the system. It’s a normalization of white supremacist patriarchal ideology that even the KKK could never have dreamed of. Law enforcement/military has been KKK for a long time. Whites will never abrogate that white power.

  154. 154
    Kay says:

    @arrieve:

    I’ll just give you an example. We have a new federal law on education that transfers quite a bit of power to the states from the federal. That is already reality. Trumpsters have indicated they will gut or ignore federal civil rights protections in education. It’s a target. state laws can fill in there, right now. It’s a bit of an emergency, really. We’ll have courts and that’s it so we need state law.

  155. 155
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Jinchi:

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

    The American Left looked fascism in the face during this election and whined about not feeling inspired to vote.

  156. 156
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jinchi: sigh.

  157. 157
    p.a. says:

    @Kay:

    The states will be where we can “hold the line”

    And nurture new talent.

  158. 158
    burnspbesq says:

    @Kay:

    The states will be where we can “hold the line”

    And suddenly Republicans will realize that Federalism ain’t what it’s cracked up to be, and the courts need to be more robust about pre-emption.

  159. 159
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Jinchi:

    But the party’s job is to win the presidency and they lost sight of that when they decided they wanted to skip the whole nomination part of the contest.

    I don’t know about you but I seem to remember a nomination process that just, wouldn’t, END.

  160. 160
    PeakVT says:

    State and local politics are the places to be active.

    Protests will just make Trump into a martyr for the authoritarians (he probably is one in his own mind already).

  161. 161
    WereBear says:

    @Kay: If wonder if we could force a hearing to let certain parties keep their FCC licenses?

    They have taken the “public trust” out back and shot it without even telling the children it went to live in the country. That is what their licenses hinge on.

  162. 162
    Kay says:

    So the “break glass” mechanism we have (to varying degrees) are state referendums. I don’t love them because direct democracy can go very wrong because a lot of voters are idiots BUT it’s quick and if it can be used for minimum wages and pot it can be used for civil rights like voting rights and equal opportunity.

    So I would do 1. state law by referendum in 2018 and 2. state government until 2020. Referendums are great ways to collect voter info too. The signature process alone requires one on one voter contact. They have to be drafted well.

  163. 163
    LAC says:

    @Baud: and also stop doing the purity pony sparkle show on off year elections too. Do not hand over the legislature in a snit.

  164. 164
    Jinchi says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    Trump was endorsed BY THE KKK, and it wasn’t even a one day media story

    Actually, it was a pretty big story. The problem is that this entire campaign was focused on Donald Trump and very little on the case for Hillary Clinton. But we vote for candidates on the ballot, not against them. A lot of people who were offended by Trump didn’t vote for him. The problem is too many of them didn’t vote at all.

  165. 165
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: I should have specified “Trump Supporters.” Good point.

    I have a Tumblr volunteer for that project, I like the name:

    It could happen to you

  166. 166
    Betty Cracker says:

    @PeakVT: I’m torn on the protest question. You’ve identified a danger, and it’s a valid point. But protests are one way to let people the shit-gibbon has marginalized know that there are plenty of folks who oppose him. It also sends a message to the shit-gibbon that he doesn’t have everyone’s support.

    My daughter (1st year college student) participated in a peaceful anti-Trump protest, and she reports it was not only cathartic for the kids who are disappointed and angry as hell, it was comforting to those who feel like the shit-gibbon’s election was a slap in the face. The protests must be peaceful, or there will be a terrible crack-down. But maybe they’re necessary.

  167. 167

    I checked the local Democratic party website, hasn’t been updated since 2014. Went to the state level site. Got two bad links. This is in blue Massachusetts. I want to get involved actively at the local level but I have no idea how to. Any suggestions.

  168. 168
    Jinchi says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    I don’t know about you but I seem to remember a nomination process that just, wouldn’t, END.

    That’s because the calendar is spread out over 6 months. I’m sure it was torture for anyone who was passionate about their preferred candidate, but as a Californian, it’s nice to actually have a race still going on by the time it comes around to us.

  169. 169
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: There is a local office in your county. Walk in.

  170. 170
    Jinchi says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m torn on the protest question.

    Peaceful protests are important right now, if only to ensure that the Democrats in office see that there is passion against Trump.

  171. 171
    MomSense says:

    @WereBear:

    Oh that is a great name. It could happen to you. I might cry.

  172. 172
  173. 173
    MomSense says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Only protest if every participant is well trained in non violent civil disobediance. It only takes one jerk to break a store window to play right into trump’s teeny hands.

  174. 174
    PeakVT says:

    @Betty Cracker: I get that protests can be positive for participants, but I just don’t see them as doing much good in this country any more given the speed of all forms of media, not to mention the failings of our professional media. Every one is pre-analyzed and pre-dismissed at this point, even if they are mostly spontaneous.

    A successful democracy requires a lot of tedious, frustrating, grinding, long-term work. That’s the hard truth. And I think we (liberals, progressives, whatever) should disabuse ourselves of the notion that protesting is a substitute.

  175. 175
    Kay says:

    I’m still waiting for the NYTimes think piece where we examine how the First Family of White People came out of NYC.

    For 30 years they’ve been writing about the racist south and racist rural areas while nurturing and promoting this absurd and backward wealthy family. Was it the money that fooled them all? Racists are all poor people?

    So fucking shallow.

  176. 176
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    One thing we should do is make sure we emphasize this particular failure – CNN finds OH GOSH! There was never any chance of criminal charges against Hillary Clinton, because the law wasn’t actually broken, and the DoJ is set up not to push political prosecutions.

    I mean, wow… that’s NEWS, isn’t it? Isn’t it amazing how all of this became clear months after the Republican convention when the baseless accusations of criminal charges started flying? I guess the law, the structure of the DoJ, and the normal precepts of US justice were completely restructured since then. What? Oh, they didn’t? So they basically sat on this because they wanted President Trump? Or maybe just a good “horse race”?

    Point is: it’s vital not to let them off the hook. That they continuously failed to vet such an outlandish, hideous set of statements as those accusing Hillary of being a criminal shows that they are unable to provide the oversight we need in our democratic society. They failed the American people, they failed their own principles, and did it for, at best, stupid, self-serving reasons, and at worst, for truly evil reasons.

  177. 177

    @Kay: I have boycotted the NYT. Let them survive without readership.

  178. 178
    OGLiberal says:

    @lamh36: This is what I said to my wife (we’re both white) before the election – I worried about black guys turning out or even some buying Trump’s crap. I worried the same thing about Latinos. I worried that white women were not going to be repulsed by Trump as we all thought they would be and should have been. I was worried about the youngs. All of my concerns were valud. But told her that I wasn’t worried and never worry about black women coming out to vote and voting the righr way. And I wasn’t wrong. And you don’t have to phone bank them oe knock on their day to get them out. I wish more Dems were like that.

  179. 179
    Bailey says:

    I’m not an employer of anyone but myself and I’m not an expert on the economy, but I cringe at the cringing of the “reaching out to deplorables” comments.

    In my reading of alternative views over the past few days, I came across this very well-reasoned argument titled “I Don’t Understand Why You Don’t Understand.” It is written from the perspective that, truly, the most important thing in our country is the creation of jobs. Good jobs with good, dependable income.

    http://www.akerslawoffices.com.....tand.shtml

    A few excerpts:

    Political scientists Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson wrote a piece in the New York Times this summer that stuck with me as I tried to figure out this election. I kept remembering this simple sentence while Trump continued to defy the odds, “Economic performance is measured in the lives of individuals, not aggregates.” This is exactly why Trump won.

    But Hillary Clinton offered to help small communities, you may say. It’s true, she had a $30 billion, 10 year recovery plan for Appalachia. The problem is $3 billion per year is not a lot of money for a region stretching from Georgia to New York. That’s especially true when the value of one coal company alone was $20 billion just a few years ago.

    On top of that her program involved job “retraining.” In other words, I’ll give you some money to help you move someplace that actually has jobs. Kiss your parents and grandparents goodbye before you go. Let’s hope your kids make fast friends at their new schools.

    But the market caused your problems, not government you may add. It’s true that in places like West Virginia cheap natural gas and economic slow downs in India and China are part of our problem. However, any honest observer also has to admit that our government manipulated the markets to make fossil fuels, coal in particular, less competitive.

    Let me tell you a not so secret, secret – people in West Virginia would love to build solar panels for a living. This is especially true if it paid as much as mining jobs. Take a look at this BLS report on the wages of all coal mining related occupations. You see all the median wages towards the left? Those are pretty high numbers. What you’ll also see is that there lots and lots of jobs associated with mining that don’t involve being a coal miner.

    None of this includes the indirect jobs associated with the industry. Equipment manufacturers. Machine shops. Gas stations. Mom and Pop restaurants. The teachers who instruct the kids. The people who lead the houses of worship. In some places we call that a “community.”

    Urban America has seen a recovery. Many of the rest of us have seen our population flee, our schools hemmorhage teachers and with the loss of our tax base a huge budget shortfall. There has been no recovery out in the political hinterlands.

    But it’s your fault for being too dependent upon one resource, you may say. It’s true our politicians have been very short-sighted. However, we’ve also tried transitioning to cheaper and cleaner natural gas, which we have an abundance of. Hillary Clinton poured cold water all over us on that one, too. We can’t mine coal, we can’t drill for natural gas and when you use our workers’ income taxes to subsidize a $500 million federal guarantee to Solyndra they build the damn manufacturing facility in California.

    You still don’t understand why most of the country didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton? You should be able to figure it out when you concede that voters in most of America were asked to subsidize industries that usually wind up in the coastal Blue states. We helped pay to create the new economy. I know those people then help pay for our resultant unemployment, Social Security and healthcare but, trust me, we’d prefer the jobs.

    Also:

    We just want to keep our jobs so that we don’t have to continue to see our schools fail, our young people leave and our towns crumble. Our current immigration policies have been successfully linked to Wall Street. Hillary Clinton was seen as their candidate mostly because of what happened during the Democratic primary.

    I’m not saying you are personally rich and aloof. You may be financially struggling as well. A lot of Trump voters make more than a lot of Hillary voters. The touchstone is the difference in our communities. I can’t say it enough. You have new buildings and cranes in yours. We have empty store fronts and moving vans in ours. You at least have the hope that President Obama talked about. To us that’s just a slogan.

    Don’t think what’s happened to coal miners and auto workers can’t happen to you or, at least, your community. How will the nation’s two million truck drivers react if they lose their jobs due to self-driving technology? I’m not arguing that we must stop progress or deny the inevitable. What we must do, however, is ask that our government work proactively if it is going to favor one commodity or one type of job over another.

    Trust me, there are many counterpoints to make in his discussion, but his points are a valuable place to start. I

    In terms of what we are gonna do now, I think the biggest problem that needs solving, access to jobs or access to entrepreneurialism, is the thorniest of them all.

  180. 180
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    Oh: regarding turnout, don’t forget voter suppression. We can’t protect against “poll watchers” now, but we can start reminding people at every turn that one party wants everyone to vote, and wants it to be super-easy and convenient, and one party explicitly tries to steal the vote from people who might have the utter AUDACITY to vote for a non-Republican.

  181. 181
    James the Sad says:

    Can someone point me to a progressive south Florida org? I’m not a group type person but I will try.

  182. 182
    PeakVT says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo: ConNN is the worst. Just uninstalled the app.

  183. 183
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: As is the way with these things, some fool has already taken our first choice, (and then let it sit with a stupid test post) but I got:

    CouldHappentoYou

    Which is shorter, more informal, and perhaps even better, now reserved on Tumblr. You can reach me with my contact form, and I will alert Betty Cracker when we are ready to take submission so she can FP it for us.

    Now, I must crash.

  184. 184
    Jinchi says:

    And I think we (liberals, progressives, whatever) should disabuse ourselves of the notion that protesting is a substitute

    It’s not a substitute. Protests are a rapid response to issues. It’s important that people understand today that millions of Americans reject the violent, hate-filled rhetoric of the Trump campaign. Tedious, frustrating, grinding, long-term work simply can’t react quickly enough. The targets of his hate have to see that there are others who will have their backs. Otherwise they’re left with nothing but the yahoos shouting waving their confederate flags and shouting “white power”.

    This is the time to build solidarity.

  185. 185
    HRA says:

    What are you going to learn by going only to liberal blogs and news programs? You are only going to get an echo of your own thoughts. Now I will admit there are places I exited quickly and never returned. Still I found it educational in reading or watching the opposition as well as my own preferences. I suggest you at least give it a trial.

    I am always interested in why a campaign did not win. Wikileaks did provide one very interesting post on the emails from John Podesta. He wrote it shortly before Hillary was going to announce her candidacy and at the very early stages of the unearthing of the emails. He said get it done and over (paraphrasing here) They did not take his advice.

    They also shut out Bill at the meetings when he said they needed to concentrate more on the white working class. Unbelievable!

    That is all I have for now. I wish you all find the healing power to get ready for the next round of elections.

  186. 186
    martian says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: We hadn’t even caught our breath after the gut punch before people were announcing that Hillary obviously lost the election she actually won the most votes in because she didn’t do enough to to connect to the white..oh, excuse me.. right voters in states where black voters were targeted for suppression. That entire line of argument is racist as far as I’m concerned. Black people being denied the vote is an outrage we should be screaming from the rooftops about, not just one issue that is tangential to how Hillary should have been stroking away white peoples “economic” anxieties.

  187. 187
    Kay says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    CNN is horrible. It’s a market failure. We could replace one over-paid anchor on CNN and hire lots of 45k a year statehouse reporters and we would be better.

    it kills me how much they make. They can’t even manage simple FACTS. Recitation. No one asking them to even think. Just don’t repeat falsehoods. Start there

  188. 188
    Kay says:

    @HRA:

    if the plan for Democrats is to continue to focus exclusively on the President there is no Democratic Party that’s a presidential campaign, not a Party.

    it has to stop.

  189. 189
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bailey: Fuck him. The complaint is that Hillary Clinton didn’t promise to do ENOUGH? Donald Trump and Republicans have done fuck-all for these people, who then vote for them anyway. Fuck him, fuck them, and let them rot in their dying towns filled with desperation and drugs until they’re extinct. Then give their land back to the Indians and start over.

  190. 190
    Bailey says:

    @martian:

    We hadn’t even caught our breath after the gut punch before people were announcing that Hillary obviously lost the election she actually won the most votes in because she didn’t do enough to to connect to the white..oh, excuse me.. right voters in states where black voters were targeted for suppression. That entire line of argument is racist as far as I’m concerned. Black people being denied the vote is an outrage we should be screaming from the rooftops about, not just one issue that is tangential to how Hillary should have been stroking away white peoples “economic” anxieties.

    I’m outraged at anyone not having the right to vote. I’ve seen the articles from The Nation and Rawstory pre-election, but I’m more persuaded by the Vox analysis post-election:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-.....trump-2016

    Beyond that, I’ve seen many interviews of voters explaining why they voted how they did or why they chose not to vote at all. Has either Raw Story or the Nation followed up with their initial subjects to determine if they tried to vote and couldn’t?

  191. 191
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Corner Stone: I see your sigh and add an eye-roll

  192. 192
    MomSense says:

    @HRA:

    She won the white working class. That wasn’t the problem.

  193. 193
    MomSense says:

    @Bailey:

    Except there were new voting restrictions in the states mentioned in the article.

  194. 194
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: The protests must be peaceful, or there will be a terrible crack-down. But maybe they’re necessary.

    Like you, I’m torn. I think shutting down traffic arteries is counter-productive, and I think a massive silent protest would be very effective, but I can just imagine, in the event one could be organized, Trumpkins showing up with airhorns, Confederate flags, and worse.

  195. 195
    Gimlet says:

    Looking ahead, maybe Harold Ford Jr in 2020 or recruit another “moderate Republican” like Patrick Murphy of Florida. That should rally the Democratic base and excite the stay at homes.

    Ford gets on TV a lot and Murphy is the prototype of the “Big Business” Democrat.

  196. 196
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @Bailey: You raise a good point. The reason to vote for Donald Trump was, although he was an incompetent idiot, he *said* he’d do something that he can’t do, and that makes it *wise* to vote for him. Because we don’t want to call people uninformed when they vote to elect a man who isn’t going to help them, but claims he will.

    Now, I do happen to agree that Democrats should have been reaching out to the poor in rural areas. It would have been a horrible, hideously thankless, job to keep preaching that the GOParty-of-Offshoring is not where you should place your trust, but it did need to be done. They should have at least tried to spread the word that you can’t trust the GOParty-of-Layoffs to do anything that will help you, because help costs money.

    And every time any proposal was made to help, it would have been viciously attacked by the GOParty-of-Bigshots, as “big government” and “wasting your money, trying to buy your vote” and “BENGHAZI!!!” But you are correct: the effort *still* needed to be made, and needs to be made especially now, when the GOParty-of-Trump is going to screw up, and the Democrats need to be ready to capitalize on it.

    Because it’s true: the GOParty-of-Wall Street will talk jobs and economy, but their prescription is always the same: tax cuts, deregulation, more poison in the air and water, etc..

  197. 197
    Bailey says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo:

    You raise a good point. The reason to vote for Donald Trump was, although he was an incompetent idiot, he *said* he’d do something that he can’t do, and that makes it *wise* to vote for him. Because we don’t want to call people uninformed when they vote to elect a man who isn’t going to help them, but claims he will.

    Well, now you’re just talking psychology, right? These voters felt that they hadn’t been helped by Dem policies (or even talked to) and so while they weren’t sure what Trump was going to bring, if anything, it was, in their mind worth a shot.

    Now, I do happen to agree that Democrats should have been reaching out to the poor in rural areas. It would have been a horrible, hideously thankless, job to keep preaching that the GOParty-of-Offshoring is not where you should place your trust, but it did need to be done. They should have at least tried to spread the word that you can’t trust the GOParty-of-Layoffs to do anything that will help you, because help costs money.

    And every time any proposal was made to help, it would have been viciously attacked by the GOParty-of-Bigshots, as “big government” and “wasting your money, trying to buy your vote” and “BENGHAZI!!!” But you are correct: the effort *still* needed to be made, and needs to be made especially now, when the GOParty-of-Trump is going to screw up, and the Democrats need to be ready to capitalize on it.

    Because it’s true: the GOParty-of-Wall Street will talk jobs and economy, but their prescription is always the same: tax cuts, deregulation, more poison in the air and water, etc..

    Well, right. This persuasion and dialogue needs to remain open. Dems cannot assume voters will just come to the same conclusion they do about the effects of GOP voting. And while you’re having that discussion with voters, maybe throw in the fact that the Googles and Facebooks (not to mention strapping tech start-ups) are not likely to come to places like Kentucky and West Virginia if the culture is not more readily accepting of the “creative class” (i.e. gays, minorities, educated white liberals, etc) that powers these kinds of jobs.

  198. 198
    MomSense says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Protests don’t work. Money is the only thing they care about. We have to stop giving a penny to any of them. Use our money only where it won’t support deatheaters. Also thinking we should all stop paying taxes. The president doesn’t and he’s a billionaire.

  199. 199
    LAC says:

    @Bailey: I am sorry, but if you think, as a black woman, I am going to be told to swallow some racist bullshit and “try to understand” why someone would vote for trump, you are way too comfortably off to have to worry, I guess. When it becomes working class and not just white working class in these people’s minds, then there will be a talk. Calling me the n word or harassing muslims isn’t going to put food on your table or a job in your hands.

  200. 200
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Jinchi: Just came back from a walk in Portland, ME. Not really a protest as such. Maybe a troll stroll?

    Drew about 300-350 people. Representation from Planned Parenthood, various LGBT orgs, the immigrant/refugees support folks, etc. Young, and white, but that’s Portland for ye. The most signs were from people whose health care is at risk.

    I saw a few old familiar faces from sanctuary-city days, an ex Jesse Jackson bod, etc. etc. The children don’t know the old songs — El Pueblo, Unido was met with blank stares.

    Many reconvened to swell the numbers at a later anti-ND-pipeline do in Monument Square.

    Very peaceful No mazeltov cocktails were tossed. One heckler on foot, one drive by.

  201. 201
    Bailey says:

    @MomSense:

    Except there were new voting restrictions in the states mentioned in the article.

    It sounds like on paper, Wisconsin is the one state that could have arguably had any affect on voter turn out because of the recent application of the law. However, at this point, we’re all just really guessing and throwing around hypotheticals as to what may have possibly happened.

    Michigan and Pennsylvania were unaffected as was Florida and N. Carolina. Obviously, Clinton only really needed WI, MI, and PA out of that pile up, but the decrease in voting for her pretty much everywhere across the country strongly implies that voter suppression wasn’t the problem.

  202. 202
    bluefoot says:

    @MomSense: Yup, pretty much. During my trip to Western and upstate NY in October it was clear to me that working class whites (in NY at least – perhaps it’s an exception since NY knows both candidates well) were more for Clinton than Trump. And that they are less racist than the middle and upper class suburban/ex-urban white people in either NY or MA. But it’s more comfortable to blame the white working class – it’s a better narrative for many.
    The Comey bullshit did have its effect in PA, according to my brother who was going door-to-door GOTV right up through Tuesday.

  203. 203
    Bailey says:

    @LAC:

    I am sorry, but if you think, as a black woman, I am going to be told to swallow some racist bullshit and “try to understand” why someone would vote for trump, you are way too comfortably off to have to worry, I guess. When it becomes working class and not just white working class in these people’s minds, then there will be a talk. Calling me the n word or harassing muslims isn’t going to put food on your table or a job in your hands.

    Trust me, I’m not so well off I don’t have to worry! I wish…

    The problem here is one of math. Obviously, many, many of Trump’s most enthused supporters were out and out racists. Maybe misogynists. Or both. There is not question about that and it is probably a conversation not worth having.

    But the liberals simply need to get it out of their head that every single white person who voted for Trump were “deplorables.” If that is the attitude (because it is certainly a misperception) then we will continue to lose elections year after year after year.

    There are more reachable white voters than what Clinton brought home. Reaching them is not a zero-sum game of insulting, or even trying to insult, black voters, Muslim voters, etc. There is a coalition to be built here. Bill Clinton knew it. Hillary’s team apparently did not.

  204. 204
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Bailey:

    voter suppression wasn’t the problem.

    Voter suppression is a fucking problem any time it happens.

  205. 205
    Bailey says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Voter suppression is a fucking problem any time it happens.

    Then please show me with evidence where it definitively happened and to what extent. I posted my homework, surely you can post yours?

  206. 206
    Gimlet says:

    This election campaign went on so long, I’m not sure the voter or nonvoter remembers the process by which he selected a candidate, just the final impression that he liked or didn’t like a candidate.

    Trump’s feuding with his own party leaders, simple solutions to problems and brutishness seems to have appealed to a lot of people.

    As to simple solutions maybe they felt Obama should have drained the Wall Street swamp instead of going for trickle -down. Probably further irritated them that Hillary was getting big bucks from them which they perceived as a bribe. They didn’t believe her when she promised a crack-down.

  207. 207
    D58826 says:

    And how about a little trip down memory lane for all of those angry folks who wanted change.
    At this point in glory days at the end of the Bush era 2008:
    1. the global economy was in free fall
    2, all of those angry Obama doesn’t care about me in the Mich/Ohio auto plants were about to lose their jobs when the industry went belly up
    3. unemployment was headed toward 10%
    4. the big banks were to all intents and purposes bankrupt
    5. economic decisions had to be made on the fly that if right might save the economy and if wrong would have made 1929 look like a picnic
    6. Dubya had pretty much checked out
    7. his ill-starred wars were still going strong
    8. torture was still the law of the land.

    As opposed to the dystonian nightmare of today with
    1. 73 months of job growth
    2. the auto industry making money hand over fist
    3. the dow setting new records
    4. income growth starting to pick up
    5. we no longer torture
    6. and the wars are slowly winding down

    The electorate certainly has just cause to be angry

    And as a side note the GOP is planning on passing legislation to block the sale of Boeing airplanes to Iran. Presumably these people who are so concerned about jobs and income do not realize that Iran will simply buy them from Airbus and the US will lose one more market and tghe jobs that go with it.

    But Obama and e-mails

  208. 208
    HRA says:

    @MomSense:

    Sorry I meant the white poor class.

  209. 209
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Bailey: You missed my point. But, fuck it, I am done with you.

  210. 210
    martian says:

    @Bailey: I can’t get that Vox page to stop reloading, but it looks like they are only talking about voter ID restrictions and not the voter roll purges that were going on in more states than the few they discuss. Somebody posted a summary from Palast that I can’t find, but it’s on the order of hundreds of thousands. Arizona was critically hit, for instance. ID restrictions are only one facet, and even there Vox will concede possibly Wisconsin was lost to it. And which voter registration organizations got shut down with police raids in the run up to this election? Because it was more than one or two that had their offices ransacked and files confiscated over voter fraud accusations. Voter suppression is a multi-pronged attack. Is that Vox article only addressing ID?

  211. 211
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    And how about a little trip down memory lane for all of those angry folks who wanted change.
    At this point in glory days at the end of the Bush era 2008:
    1. the global economy was in free fall
    2, all of those angry Obama doesn’t care about me in the Mich/Ohio auto plants were about to lose their jobs when the industry went belly up
    3. unemployment was headed toward 10%
    4. the big banks were to all intents and purposes bankrupt
    5. economic decisions had to be made on the fly that if right might save the economy and if wrong would have made 1929 look like a picnic
    6. Dubya had pretty much checked out
    7. his ill-starred wars were still going strong
    8. torture was still the law of the land.

    As opposed to the dystonian nightmare of today with
    1. 73 months of job growth
    2. the auto industry making money hand over fist
    3. the dow setting new records
    4. income growth starting to pick up
    5. we no longer torture
    6. and the wars are slowly winding down

    The electorate certainly has just cause to be angry

    And as a side note the GOP is planning on passing legislation to block the sale of Boeing airplanes to Iran. Presumably these people who are so concerned about jobs and income do not realize that Iran will simply buy them from Airbus and the US will lose one more market and tghe jobs that go with it.

    But Obama and e-mails

    These are all excellent points that should have been the foundation of the campaign and the foundation of the reach out with voters. They were not. The campaign focused on a Miss Universe that was insulted two decades ago and how horrible a person Trump is. Voters needed more. They needed to be reminded of where we were, where we are, where we’re going. That didn’t happen.

  212. 212
    Bailey says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You missed my point. But, fuck it, I am done with you.

    Okay.

  213. 213
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey:

    On top of that her program involved job “retraining.” In other words, I’ll give you some money to help you move someplace that actually has jobs. Kiss your parents and grandparents goodbye before you go. Let’s hope your kids make fast friends at their new schools.

    Give me a break. People have been leaving friends and family in rural and economically depressed areas for years. The influx to the cities as farming was mechanized and the industrial revolution took off. All of those Okies who headed to Calif. in hopes of better jobs and the pioneers and their wagon trains before that. . All of the African Americans who moved north for a better life. All of those immigrants thru Ellis island who put and ocean between friends and family and in most cases didn’t even speak the language.

  214. 214
    bluefoot says:

    @LAC: But don’t you know the feelings and emotional comfort of white people is way more important than the *actual physical safety* of minorities and other marginalized groups? White people have anxiety! Don’t know you know black and brown people don’t feel pain like real people? That white people aren’t used to having to suffer injustice? We’re used to it so we should keep taking it! (…or so this election and the ensuing discussions have forcefully driven home to me.)

  215. 215
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey: Well actually Hillary and her surrogate did but as the word clouds have shown the only message that came thru the MSM was e-mails. Besides if you have to tell a voter who was looking at a closed auto plant in 2008 and now was pulling overtime in that same plant that things are better, that voter must be dead from the neck up.

  216. 216
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @Bailey: I’ve been in a foul mood since Tuesday, so I am very glad you saw through my snark, because I *do* agree that it was stone-cold-wrong to give up on those areas of rural poor. I was arguing with another blogger about how I don’t think you want to call it “stupid” or “ridiculous oversight” – but for the reasons I mentioned. It will be horrible and thankless; every offering of help will be rejected, and spun. as horrible leftwing horror. Hey, maybe someone will say “look, these people have been forgotten about, and no one says they’ll help, so they vote based upon things like religion, guns, and their fear of others” because he wants to help them, and that will be spun into his hating them. Wouldn’t that just be *HI*larious?

    But it is still necessary. The Republicans were ready to take advantage of pain during Obama’s tenure, and they saw an advantage and POUNCED.

    The Democrats haven’t been doing that. And so, while I was snarky in my response, I do agree with you. I’m just shooting the *particular* messenger you introduced, because no story is complete without acknowledging that Republicans have been spreading actual honest-to-goodness hatred in those areas for over 20 years.

    The olive branch I’ll offer is this: the Democrats had limited resources, and invested in their strong areas, and that wasn’t a bad idea. It was wrong, okay, but that doesn’t make an idea bad. It worked two elections in a row; it looked to be working in a third, and likely would have but for the unprecedented use of threats invoking the criminal justice system.

    Still, having seen a total incompetent arsehole win, it would be a bad idea to try to do the same thing next time. Because if they’d been active in those areas, they might have overcome that disadvantage; even a mild whispering campaign saying “his companies kept shedding jobs! He doesn’t know how to create them![1]” might have been enough to win.. So: going forward, ignoring rural areas *would* be stone-cold stupid. They’ve used up the “not-bad, but wrong” idea mulligan.

    [1] I have no idea if his companies could be shown to have “kept shedding jobs” but for a whispering campaign, it doesn’t matter. Truth only matters for public, press-accessible, statements[2]

    [2] OMG I just suggested a dishonest whispering campaign against a party that got the FBI to conspire with them to fix the election! I feel so ASHAMED… that I didn’t suggest this is 2008. But back then, I had this dumb-ass idea that the Republicans might try to work with someone who was so eager to work with them if they gave him a chance.

  217. 217
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    Give me a break. People have been leaving friends and family in rural and economically depressed areas for years. The influx to the cities as farming was mechanized and the industrial revolution took off. All of those Okies who headed to Calif. in hopes of better jobs and the pioneers and their wagon trains before that. . All of the African Americans who moved north for a better life. All of those immigrants thru Ellis island who put and ocean between friends and family and in most cases didn’t even speak the language.

    Okay, sure, but people still live in Oklahoma. Despite heavy migration, people still live in the South. I think it’s safe to say that cities can’t support EVERYONE coming to live there, so there still needs to be good job opportunities for those that aren’t the pick-up-and-go type. Not to mention, the resources of the nation are rarely in the cities.

  218. 218
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey: People will still live in W. Va. after the last mine shuts, some of them young people. IIRC she was also talking about creating new job opportunities for the folks who stayed.

    I doubt that you could Cole to leave even if one of Trump spawn moved in next door

  219. 219
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @D58826: Having just poked at Bailey’s messenger, I would ask that you not quote something the *article* said and respond to Bailey. The messenger was wrong; but the overall thrust – that we can’t give up the rural poor, even if they hate us, uh, “liberally”, so to speak, because we need to be able to capitalize on the Republicans missteps, or at least cut down their advantage.

  220. 220
    JoeSo says:

    I’ve never posted on blog before, but I’m coming around to liking this one a lot. I’m really starting to get sick and tired of reading doom and gloom from other sites. I am all for letting people grieve, but now its reaching Shakespearean levels and its getting to be silly (Alas poor America, I knew her Horatio…). I’m interested in action not despair. I’m also seeing a lot of Bernie or Hillary or DNC bashing which I don’t see as productive. I’m interested in action not blaming. I’m interested in undermining this fascist’s so-called “presidency” and undoing his legacy as quickly as its gets created. I’ve been thinking of how to go about this, especially as a New Yorker living in New York City. I’ve been giving serious thought to working for Democratic elected officials or campaigns in the city, but I don’t know if I currently have or will ever have the temperament to publicly acknowledge, compliment, or work with this scumbag, his henchmen, or his legions of supportive racists and racism enablers. The last thing I want to do is unintentionally sabotage the Dems more than they have already been.

    I’m also giving serious thought to going back to school to become a lawyer or a journalist. I feel organizations like the ACLU will need manpower as much as money, hence my interest in becoming the former. But with the media’s determined efforts to promote and normalize this fascist during campaign season and now, I feel a stronger pull toward the later. I’ll take up the work you clowns have no intention of doing.

    Lastly, a lot of people here don’t know what to call Trump cause they don’t want to call him president. I for one don’t acknowledge his title or his authority. I’ll call him by the title most befitting to him, Predator Trump. It has a nice ring to it and it feels cathartic to say it and think it. He’s a sexual predator who preyed on women and has already made it clear he will continue to do so with his “lawsuits” against his victims. He’s a financial predator who leeched money off his dad, his failed businesses, his supporters, the GOP (though I’m not to sad about that), and the U.S. Government by not paying taxes. He is Predator-elect Trump, soon to be Predator Trump. Let the name stick to him like Crooked stuck to Hillary.

  221. 221
    LAC says:

    @bluefoot: that is the vibe I am getting from bailey. Let’s worry about them first and foremost. No need to ask or expect them to stand up to the fucked up behavior of their fellow voters. Of course, I am supposed to be the spokesman for my people when something bad happens. But when the shoe is on the other foot, it’s always about “understanding” and seeing nuances.

  222. 222
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    People will still live in W. Va. after the last mine shuts, some of them young people. IIRC she was also talking about creating new job opportunities for the folks who stayed.

    I doubt that you could Cole to leave even if one of Trump spawn moved in next door

    The problem was, given her background, voters found her not only insufficient and inauthentic on the issue but also more than a little tone-deaf.

  223. 223
    Bailey says:

    @LAC:

    that is the vibe I am getting from bailey. Let’s worry about them first and foremost. No need to ask or expect them to stand up to the fucked up behavior of their fellow voters. Of course, I am supposed to be the spokesman for my people when something bad happens. But when the shoe is on the other foot, it’s always about “understanding” and seeing nuances.

    Then you are getting the wrong vibe. I’m wondering where all the white people went that voted for Obama but stayed home for Hillary Clinton. I don’t think they suddenly became racists and deplorable in 4-8 short years.

  224. 224
    D58826 says:

    Of course we should not give up on the rural folks but the bulk of america in 2016 lives in the cities and the near and far suburbs. That’s why Calif. has 54 EV votes and Montana has what 1 or 2.

    At some point I guess Hillary’s people made the mistaken assumption that an informed electorate will see that the economy is not in free fall. That things, while not perfect, are still way better than 2008. And that now folks living in small town America in which most jobs are small businesses or agricultural have access to affordable health care.
    They were wrong. The right wing Wurlitzer is just to powerful.

  225. 225
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    America, the only country in the world where the party that wins the popular vote needs to figure out how to win elections. Fuck Jimmy Madison.

  226. 226
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey: that’s true but that impression was given a big lift by e-mails 24/7 and she does suffer in comparison to Bill, Barak, Michelle, Liz, Bernie and FSM forbid Trump when it come to charisma on the campaign trail

  227. 227
    LAC says:

    @Bailey: gee, could it be that eight years of undermining and questioning the motives of the first African American president by the right wing of this country have something to do with this? With able assistance by click bait media and fauxgressives who were busy shining up their credentials instead of getting to work at the state and local levels? You were under some impression that this was post racial America. It never was.

  228. 228
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    Of course we should not give up on the rural folks but the bulk of america in 2016 lives in the cities and the near and far suburbs. That’s why Calif. has 54 EV votes and Montana has what 1 or 2.

    I’m not talking about winning Montana. I’m talking about Pennsylvania. Wisconsin. Ohio. States that have big cities, but also have expansive rural populations that can run up the score.

    At some point I guess Hillary’s people made the mistaken assumption that an informed electorate will see that the economy is not in free fall. That things, while not perfect, are still way better than 2008. And that now folks living in small town America in which most jobs are small businesses or agricultural have access to affordable health care.
    They were wrong. The right wing Wurlitzer is just to powerful.

    If they did not know that by now, then shame on them. Here’s how I’ve always thought about the divide between Dem and GOP politicians: Dems assume the voters are more informed than they are; GOP knows for damned sure that they’re not.

    Dems need to understand how to better message and reach voters. Obama was a fucking unicorn in his master of policy and ability to persuade voters of all varieties. I don’t know that anyone will ever be able to match his oratory, but that shouldn’t mean that the channels of communication are atrophied altogether.

  229. 229
    Monala says:

    @Baud: Thank you! Sanders, Robert Reich, Michael Moore and Thomas Frank all had recent articles about “Dems suck and that’s why Hillary lost.” So why shouldn’t the low-information American (far too many of them around, not always their fault) believe them?

  230. 230
    Bailey says:

    @LAC:

    gee, could it be that eight years of undermining and questioning the motives of the first African American president by the right wing of this country have something to do with this? With able assistance by click bait media and fauxgressives who were busy shining up their credentials instead of getting to work at the state and local levels? You were under some impression that this was post racial America. It never was.

    I don’t think we’re a post racial America; I’ve never thought that. Still doesn’t change the equation that not all Trump voters are racist. And not all white voters that Clinton lost voted for Trump—many just stayed home. In Michigan, 90,000 voters only voted down-ballot and didn’t vote for President at all. What’s going on there?

  231. 231
    Hal says:

    @lamh36: Yes times one million.

  232. 232
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @Bailey: What’s going on there is a news media that talked about emails, emails, emails and convinced many *Democrats* that Hillary broke the law and should be heading off to jail but was being protected in a way that they never would be if they broke the law. It wasn’t just Republicans that bought into the email server being a criminal act fallacy.

    Second, the vote count for this election is not complete. As has been pointed out in numerous threads, there are six million votes still uncounted, with four million alone in California. Let’s do the full post-mortem after all votes are counted. The Democrats need to focus more on building strong state machines in red states, there’s no question. But this election, her negatives were driven up by the media and her opponent, a reality TV star capitalized on his celebrity to gain untold hours of free press coverage that ultimately benefited him because no one was talking about her policies (“too boring”).

  233. 233
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bailey: You are one dumb fuck. I don’t know why people waste so much time engaging you.

  234. 234
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @nastybrutishntall: I’m not that tech savvy, but I am on le Facebook. Would love to have monthly (?) gatherings for writing letters to newspapers, elected officials, donating time to PP (for example).

  235. 235
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey: Having lived in Pa most of my life I can speak to that with a bit more authority. Phila and Pittsburgh are solidly D. The four suburban counties around Philly are GOP. That may have changed since I left in 1996 as more African Americans and Latinos have move into those areas. Central PA might as well be Alabama. Given Trump’s attitude toward women it was not unreasonable to pitch that to solidly middle class women in the hopes that they would flip this year. I would love to know how many of those female Trump voters would want to leave their teenage daughters alone with Trump?

    One of the mysteries of this election has been all of the Obama voters who flipped to Trump. I haven’t seen anything on the subject but I wonder how many of those Obama voters were Bush voters in 2000/2004? In other words were these voters reliably democratic or have they been GOP or maybe swing in previous elections but just voted for Obama in 2008/2012 for whatever reason? I’m reminded of a story, maybe true, of an Obama GOTO person talking to a white woman in a union area of Pa. From the kitchen her husband yelled ‘we’re voting for the n***r’.

  236. 236
    Bailey says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You are one dumb fuck. I don’t know why people waste so much time engaging you.

    Coming from the guy who has been wrong about virtually everything, I’ll take this as a high compliment.

  237. 237
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    @Kay: Way to miss the point – the point isn’t that CNN muffed it, it’s that *EVERY* major news outlet ignored that the GOParty-of-Prosecution was making completely unfounded criminal accusations. The irony is that CNN reported it right after the election, requiring *nothing* to put it together. Nothing was ever needed – every non-partisan prosecutor agreed, this wasn’t a case that would be prosecuted, ever, because it’s not a criminal offense to mistakenly e-mail classified information.

    It’s one thing to say “Trump claims he’ll renegotiate trade agreements and bring back jobs” without mentioning “no one thinks he can do this, and he has no idea about how to do it.”

    It’s another thing to say “Republicans accused Hillary Clinton of criminal behavior” without following up with “to settle the question, we’ve surveyed 500 competent, non-partisan prosecutors with the facts of the case, and every single one of them agreed this doesn’t generate an indictment. 100 of them, having learned that the in-the-tank MSM failed to inform them that these were the facts in the Hillary Clinton case, tried to change their response and insist that SHE was a criminal; even though no one ELSE who did the same things, was.”

  238. 238
    D58826 says:

    @Monala: what was that guy’s name on Salon Goodman? I stopped reading supposedly liberal Salon because it made Hillary sound like the second coming of the biblical plagues. And they are still at it

  239. 239
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey: all good question that the democrats certainly have to get answers to

  240. 240
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    Having lived in Pa most of my life I can speak to that with a bit more authority. Phila and Pittsburgh are solidly D. The four suburban counties around Philly are GOP. That may have changed since I left in 1996 as more African Americans and Latinos have move into those areas. Central PA might as well be Alabama. Given Trump’s attitude toward women it was not unreasonable to pitch that to solidly middle class women in the hopes that they would flip this year. I would love to know how many of those female Trump voters would want to leave their teenage daughters alone with Trump?

    I don’t disagree that targeting women as a subset was not a terrible idea. Problem is, with this campaign, it turned in nearly all-identity politics, all the time. Clinton got a few more women, but certainly not to the degree that it was ultimately helpful. I think the Access Hollywood tapes told everyone everything they needed to know about Trump and women.

    One of the mysteries of this election has been all of the Obama voters who flipped to Trump. I haven’t seen anything on the subject but I wonder how many of those Obama voters were Bush voters in 2000/2004? In other words were these voters reliably democratic or have they been GOP or maybe swing in previous elections but just voted for Obama in 2008/2012 for whatever reason? I’m reminded of a story, maybe true, of an Obama GOTO person talking to a white woman in a union area of Pa. From the kitchen her husband yelled ‘we’re voting for the n***r’.

    Maybe. If there are a significant set of white voters that vacillated between Bush in ’00/’04 and Obama ’08/’12 and then back to Trump ’16….what does that tell you? To me it says they are persuadable on some higher level.

  241. 241
    D58826 says:

    @LongHairedWeirdo: ah but those optics and where there is smoke.

    On a diffewrnt but related topic

    The Democrats need to focus more on building strong state machines in red states

    . The state and local democratic p[arty has been decimated in the past eight years. They have lost something like 1000 legislative seats. and 20 governorship. It is at the state and local level that is both the farm team and has a major impact on how elections are conducted. I’ve seen a couple of articles, yes by the ‘blame the eruption of Krakatoa on Obama since it was in Indonesia’ crowd, but did the Obama team drop the ball on the state and local party apparatus? The articles may have been written by Obama haters but even the famous stopped clock is right twice a day.

  242. 242
    Betty Cracker says:

    @PeakVT: Agree that protests aren’t a substitute for other types of actions. But they might be of value in their own right.

  243. 243
    Applejinx says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Fuck him. The complaint is that Hillary Clinton didn’t promise to do ENOUGH? Donald Trump and Republicans have done fuck-all for these people, who then vote for them anyway. Fuck him, fuck them, and let them rot in their dying towns filled with desperation and drugs until they’re extinct. Then give their land back to the Indians and start over.

    “…now, vote for me, you fuckers, since you’re not quite dead yet. You’re lying anyway, your dying towns filled with desperation and drugs are fine. Vote for me, you deplorable fuck.”

    This does not seem like a new opinion from you, or from Democrats. I feel this is a problem. Maybe you should run Hillary Clinton again until your opinion is made sufficiently clear.

  244. 244
    D58826 says:

    @Bailey:

    Maybe. If there are a significant set of white voters that vacillated between Bush in ’00/’04 and Obama ’08/’12 and then back to Trump ’16….what does that tell you? To me it says they are persuadable on some higher level.

    True. And maybe it wasn’t a bad assumption by Hillary that a choice between competence and continuation of the successful policies of Obama and a nut like Trump, they would stay persuaded for this cycle. If it had been a Kaisch/Rubio/Jeb running that would have been a dangerous assumption from day one but with Trump not so much. Heck even most of the GOP and many in the Trump camp figured Hillary would win. Early in the evening on MSNBC Steve Schmidt and Nicolle Wallace were talking about whither the GOP would survive the night.

  245. 245
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bailey: Voter suppression is a fucking problem any time it happens.

    Then please show me with evidence where it definitively happened and to what extent. I posted my homework, surely you can post yours?

    You really need that sentence explained to you, dumbass? Lemme guess, twenty-something white boy whose parents still pay his bills.

  246. 246
    LAC says:

    @Bailey: whatever understanding needs to come from that end. If you voted for trump, you need to be able to explain why you support a campaign that was short on substance and long on ginning up white resentment. If you didn’t vote and are a democrat, unless there was active voter suppression then you are simply an idiot. Protest voting? Idiot.

    I live in a country where every advance we made as people was almost in spite of who was in power. My parents generation and a good part of my adult hood was marked by working with less than inspiring leaders. But we did. I come from a voting family. I do not have time to get precious about it.

    The Democratic Party is not perfect but it is not a suckfest that we have to abandon to make room for ignorant fears and prejudices. Like I said before, when this becomes “working class” and not just “white working class” fetishism , then a talk can happen. Right now they got a KKK rally planned in North Carolina. People are actually being harmed here post election. Any time spent on condemning that crap by ” winners” of this election? No. but let’s keep minimalizing that issue because feelings.

  247. 247
    Bailey says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You really need that sentence explained to you, dumbass? Lemme guess, twenty-something white boy whose parents still pay his bills.

    Jim, you are literally foolish.

  248. 248
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bailey: Jim, you are literally foolish.

    OH! ZING! Somebody help you come up with that one?

  249. 249
    Betty Cracker says:

    @JoeSo: I like the Predator idea. Maybe I’ll adopt that if I tire of “shit-gibbon.”

  250. 250
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bailey: Anyone who voted for Trump exhibited such a depraved indifference to the fate of blacks, Muslims, immigrants, women, etc., that they’ve earned the honorary title of racist, sexist, xenophobe, IMO. If I were in charge of 2020 strategy, I’d focus on turnout, messaging, voter ID, etc., but I wouldn’t waste a nanosecond chasing Trump voters. Fuck ’em.

  251. 251
    Corner Stone says:

    We have thrown the entire god damn kitchen sink at these “economic anxiety” voters since LBJ. It’s amazing how they time after time decide that if they have to stand side by side with the niggers that they would rather not have any more, thank you.
    Trump is nothing more than a Reagan with a bullhorn instead of a dogwhistle.

  252. 252
    D58826 says:

    You know maybe we are looking in the wrong direction here. Trump has been a salesman/conman for 30+ years. Like any good salesman/conman he knows which of the buttons to push on his customers/marks. In spite of numerous bankruptcies, ponzi schemes, and stiffing of contractors he is still in business. The US government gave him the contract to redevelop the old Post Office and plaster his name on it all within sight of the WH. He must be doing something right. Tuesday was simply his biggest sale/con job of his career.

    That doesn’t mean that the democrats don’t have a lot of the soul searching to do but it may simply be this is just the biggest con ever.

  253. 253
    Corner Stone says:

    God help me, I would take a Reagan administration right now 10 out of 10 against a Trump admin. And I have spent my adult life preaching against the sheer horror that was the Reagan admin for America.

  254. 254
    Corner Stone says:

    MY FEELS! PUSH THAT BUTTON MARKED FEELS!!

  255. 255
    D58826 says:

    @Corner Stone: yes me to. Reagan at least had grownups for advisers and he listened To them. I would take even Nancy and her astrologer over Melania. But it is also true that he started us on the path of a fact free electorate

  256. 256
    Bailey says:

    @LAC:

    whatever understanding needs to come from that end. If you voted for trump, you need to be able to explain why you support a campaign that was short on substance and long on ginning up white resentment. If you didn’t vote and are a democrat, unless there was active voter suppression then you are simply an idiot. Protest voting? Idiot.

    Both campaigns were short on substance, ultimately. Oh sure, Clinton had a zillion policy papers, but that is not what her communication landed on, so voters were left with the idea that there was almost nothing of substance to distinguish the candidates and it came down to who you liked less. Or more. For many, they thought they knew what they’d get from Clinton and been there/done that, didn’t like it. They weren’t sure what they’d get from Trump but thought it was worth the gamble. Trump spoke grandly of ripping up trade agreements and various resentments and that sounded good to them. To many people, Clinton didn’t speak at all.

    I live in a country where every advance we made as people was almost in spite of who was in power. My parents generation and a good part of my adult hood was marked by working with less than inspiring leaders. But we did. I come from a voting family. I do not have time to get precious about it.

    The Democratic Party is not perfect but it is not a suckfest that we have to abandon to make room for ignorant fears and prejudices. Like I said before, when this becomes “working class” and not just “white working class” fetishism , then a talk can happen. Right now they got a KKK rally planned in North Carolina. People are actually being harmed here post election. Any time spent on condemning that crap by ” winners” of this election? No. but let’s keep minimalizing that issue because feelings.

    I agree that the Democratic party is not a complete suckfest. But I will continue to disagree with you that every person out there that voted for Trump is necessarily lost forever or that their inclusion in the party diminishes the rock solid Dems like you. Not every Trump voter wants a KKK rally.

    NOW. I do agree that those voters who aren’t racist but did vote for Trump need to speak up, particularly now. In fact, Trump needs to speak up. I doubt he will, but he needs to.

    Another point I’d like to make with respect to this thread but also just our lives in particular. Many people will not like the source or the setting. But this is an exercise in trying to get past our knee jerk prejudices and try to listen to the message before dismissing the messenger entirely.

    The topic is how to be persuasive in speaking to others and in the importance of supporting your argument with facts and arguments, not just calling people idiots or, in the Balloon Juice way, telling them to “fuck off.”

    Trey Gowdy at Liberty Museum. Yes, gag, but listen to what he says. It’s a very good message to consider:

    https://www.facebook.com/disclosetv/videos/10154892143435628/?pnref=story

  257. 257
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @D58826: I think we finally have a decent analysis of what happened. Let’s not forget that he has been on TV for a number of years as a take charge, no b.s., executive. Even though it is a complete fantasy, many people believe it. Look at the pictures from the other day, he doesn’t look like a happy camper, after having pulled off a huge upset electoral victory.

  258. 258
    Bailey says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Anyone who voted for Trump exhibited such a depraved indifference to the fate of blacks, Muslims, immigrants, women, etc., that they’ve earned the honorary title of racist, sexist, xenophobe, IMO. If I were in charge of 2020 strategy, I’d focus on turnout, messaging, voter ID, etc., but I wouldn’t waste a nanosecond chasing Trump voters. Fuck ’em.

    So you would hurl names at them even though many of these voters are absolutely open to a strong Democratic message as evidence by their previous voting patterns? Even though many absolutely voted “jobs over race?” You would not take the time to persuade them how their reasoning was counter-productive to both life in America and securing good jobs for everyone?

  259. 259
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    You know maybe we are looking in the wrong direction here. Trump has been a salesman/conman for 30+ years. Like any good salesman/conman he knows which of the buttons to push on his customers/marks. In spite of numerous bankruptcies, ponzi schemes, and stiffing of contractors he is still in business. The US government gave him the contract to redevelop the old Post Office and plaster his name on it all within sight of the WH. He must be doing something right. Tuesday was simply his biggest sale/con job of his career.

    That doesn’t mean that the democrats don’t have a lot of the soul searching to do but it may simply be this is just the biggest con ever.

    Of course there is a lot of truth to this. Consider that many of these voters are not NYC media types and don’t know The Donald’s reputation as a real estate developer in the ’80s but they do see him on The Apprentice and it seems like he’s creating jobs there and they like him….

    I do not disagree with the “this was the greatest con of all time” argument. I think Trump started by completely trolling the GOP and everything took off from there. I don’t think he ever thought he’d win. He clearly wasn’t even planning on winning. And, frankly, probably has no desire to be President at all.

    But still. It should make Dems double down in their strategy because losing sucks enough as it is. Losing to a transparent con man is even worse.

  260. 260
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Anyone who voted for Trump exhibited such a depraved indifference to the fate of blacks, Muslims, immigrants, women, etc., that they’ve earned the honorary title of racist, sexist, xenophobe, IMO. If I were in charge of 2020 strategy, I’d focus on turnout, messaging, voter ID, etc., but I wouldn’t waste a nanosecond chasing Trump voters. Fuck ’em.

    QFT

  261. 261
    Mandalay says:

    @MomSense:

    Clinton won working class whites. So did Obama twice. The media know this yet they are pushing this falsehood so they can fool people into thinking this was economic anxiety and not racism

    Economic anxiety was a real factor in Trump’s victory. Those who felt better off voted more for Clinton, and those who felt worse off voted more for Trump.

    And those who felt worse off were not necessarily “working class whites”, and they voted overwhelmingly for Trump:

    Clinton also lost among Americans feeling uncertain about their financial situation. Those who felt they were now worse off voted for Trump 78-19 per cent.

    Folks here might want to check the actual numbers before making simplistic assertions.

  262. 262
    Bailey says:

    @D58826:

    True. And maybe it wasn’t a bad assumption by Hillary that a choice between competence and continuation of the successful policies of Obama and a nut like Trump, they would stay persuaded for this cycle. If it had been a Kaisch/Rubio/Jeb running that would have been a dangerous assumption from day one but with Trump not so much. Heck even most of the GOP and many in the Trump camp figured Hillary would win. Early in the evening on MSNBC Steve Schmidt and Nicolle Wallace were talking about whither the GOP would survive the night.

    There is another consideration that many people saw Trump as….wait for it…competent. What this says about them is that they clearly needed more distilled information to work with, but there are plenty of people believe Trump is fully competent to be President. So I’ll just leave that there.

  263. 263
    JoeSo says:

    @Betty Cracker: We have to make it stick. I remember hearing reporters, journalist, and pundits(besides Trump surrogates) use the name Crooked Hillary at times for Secretary Clinton. We should add Predator Trump to their vocabulary.

  264. 264
    LAC says:

    @Bailey: you are a hilarity. Thanks but I am not in the “magical negro” business. You go ahead with your “trump voters feel too” blog tour. Good luck. And if being told to go fuck yourself in a blog is your biggest problem today, then you are privileged.

  265. 265
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @D58826: The recession’s over. It’s safe to vote against the n•gg•r again — a.) he’s not running, and b.) he already saved your job,

  266. 266
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bailey: Did we just watch the same election? Because the one I saw had fuck-all to do with policy.

  267. 267
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Bailey: Just to pile on, Trey Gowdy, really ?

  268. 268
    Bailey says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Did we just watch the same election? Because the one I saw had fuck-all to do with policy.

    It sure didn’t. Trump ran a campaign of a few large themes — rip up existing agreements / build a wall / everything’s a disaster.

    Clinton even less substantial — “I’m experienced” / “I’m not Trump” / “He’s terrible”/ “Here’s Miss Universe”

    My point is that Clinton focusing less on identity issues and more on substance may have actually spoken more to voters where she needed them.

  269. 269
    Bailey says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    Just to pile on, Trey Gowdy, really ?

    Yes, really. It is a test to see if people can actually listen to what someone on the opposite side of the spectrum is saying and find even one point of agreement. Can you do it?

  270. 270
    Bailey says:

    @LAC:

    you are a hilarity. Thanks but I am not in the “magical negro” business. You go ahead with your “trump voters feel too” blog tour. Good luck. And if being told to go fuck yourself in a blog is your biggest problem today, then you are privileged.

    Alright, well it appears we’ve talked past each other today. Maybe some other time.

  271. 271
    Applejinx says:

    @Corner Stone:

    We have thrown the entire god damn kitchen sink at these “economic anxiety” voters since LBJ. It’s amazing how they time after time decide that if they have to stand side by side with the niggers that they would rather not have any more, thank you.

    I don’t know, I’ve been studying macroeconomics for some years now, notably from Mark Blyth. According to him, a heck of a lot has happened since LBJ. His analysis goes back to previous world wars, is internally consistent, and can be learned from.

    He predicted Brexit, and he predicted this, at 60% probability, two months ago and did not waver from that at all.

    It’s possible you’ll refuse to listen to him because he uses words like the n-word… neoliberal… and he’ll just go on and predict something else and be right. Currently he’s very downhearted and expecting Le Pen to win France. In a recent talk with another professor, she stated outright that he was very surprised as she was, at the election results, and he shook his head violently with a loud ‘No, no, no’. Then, later, she claimed that prices rising in supermarkets were inflation. Again he flatly contradicted her. They’re not inflation, commodities are unchanged, that’s just people stealing from you. They’re just stealing from you…

    I am going to be continuing to listen to the people who predicted all this and loudly said so all along. When you say crazy things or continue to put ‘economic insecurity’ in ‘sarcasm quotes’ and crank up the point-and-mock reflexes, I’m going to suggest that other people stop listening to you.

    We are way way off the map. Right now I don’t believe the Democratic Party has the faintest idea what hit them, which means their counter-swing is anything but trustworthy. I’d say ‘us’ if I didn’t see so much doubling down and retrenching.

  272. 272
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Bailey: Given what his history is, and his direct role in causing our current condition, I would have to politely say not at this time.

  273. 273
    Corner Stone says:

    @Applejinx: Oh, no. Please don’t tell me I haven’t lost the ever so important Applejinx dialectic? God no!
    *throws self over bridge rail*

  274. 274
    Bailey says:

    @Applejinx:

    I don’t know, I’ve been studying macroeconomics for some years now, notably from Mark Blyth. According to him, a heck of a lot has happened since LBJ. His analysis goes back to previous world wars, is internally consistent, and can be learned from.

    He predicted Brexit, and he predicted this, at 60% probability, two months ago and did not waver from that at all.

    It’s possible you’ll refuse to listen to him because he uses words like the n-word… neoliberal… and he’ll just go on and predict something else and be right. Currently he’s very downhearted and expecting Le Pen to win France. In a recent talk with another professor, she stated outright that he was very surprised as she was, at the election results, and he shook his head violently with a loud ‘No, no, no’. Then, later, she claimed that prices rising in supermarkets were inflation. Again he flatly contradicted her. They’re not inflation, commodities are unchanged, that’s just people stealing from you. They’re just stealing from you…

    I am going to be continuing to listen to the people who predicted all this and loudly said so all along. When you say crazy things or continue to put ‘economic insecurity’ in ‘sarcasm quotes’ and crank up the point-and-mock reflexes, I’m going to suggest that other people stop listening to you.

    We are way way off the map. Right now I don’t believe the Democratic Party has the faintest idea what hit them, which means their counter-swing is anything but trustworthy. I’d say ‘us’ if I didn’t see so much doubling down and retrenching.

    Good post.

  275. 275
    Applejinx says:

    @Bailey: I have a very dear friend in North Dakota who voted for Gary Johnson because, as much as she literally hates Hillary with a mind-melting passion, she couldn’t cope with Trump and refused to vote for him.

    She’s downright reverent of Trey Gowdy. I think he looks like a creep and has way overreached by pretending a document was classified because he thought it was super inappropriate that it wasn’t classified, and treating it like it in fact was. That’s the best of my understanding of his crimes. Seems a sort of stick-up-the-ass crime, insisting he knew better than IIRC the CIA who claimed the doc wasn’t classified at all, which benefited Clinton.

    I’ve seen worse behavior than that. I could listen to Gowdy, and might well hear stuff that resonates with what my North Dakota friend sees in him.

    We might see him taking some good actions in future. One thing about it, I do see how completely enemy-making it is to conflate guys like Trey Gowdy with guys like Darrell Issa, or Gingrich. They’re not all the same.

  276. 276
    Applejinx says:

    @Corner Stone: “demographic”. Please snark more attentively in future.

  277. 277
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bailey: Thanks, that’s clarifying — we didn’t see the same election. I’ll conclude from that that further conversation would be pointless and bid you good day.

  278. 278
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    I guess I went to bizarro BJ, where supposed liberals are writing hagiography for Trey Gowdy. WHAT THE FUCK !!!!!!!

  279. 279
    Betty Cracker says:

    Weird. Feels like I’m watching Republican conversion therapy in real time.

  280. 280
    LAC says:

    @Betty Cracker: well, he and appledink have connected, so that is special. “No, your post excusing trump voters is the best!” “No, yours is!” “OMG! Selfie time!”

  281. 281
    Mandalay says:

    @Applejinx:

    I am going to be continuing to listen to the people who predicted all this and loudly said so all along.

    Indeed. When I quoted very specific and very accurate predictions of the outcome that were made by Michael Moore and Bernie Sanders over fifteen months ago I just got streams of abuse and denial here.

    It’s not just the Democratic Party that doesn’t have a clue. Some folks here want to confine the reasons for Clinton’s failure to misogyny, racism and voter suppression. Anything else is heresy, and off limits for discussion.

  282. 282
    LAC says:

    @Mandalay: you are too modest. You know that is not the only reason that you get streams of abuse here.

  283. 283
    Corner Stone says:

    @Applejinx: Make your way to the nearest public library and ask to please borrow a dictionary.

  284. 284
    Bailey says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thanks, that’s clarifying — we didn’t see the same election.

    Well, I saw an election in which what various liberals here told me should have been the strongest candidate evah, lose touch with a game-changing amount of voters to the degree that she lost at least 6 states (and a congressional district) that her predecessor carried. I saw her lose them to a carney barker salesman with zero public service experience and a dangerously narcissistic approach to leadership. I saw that carney barker salesman capture voters that had previously been democrats. I saw how other previously reliable democratic voters either stayed home for our amazing candidate or voted third party.

    You apparently saw something great in that and have a plan for 2020 to tinker around the edges and just tighten up on voter IDs a bit, regardless of the fact that the majority of the states lost had nothing to do with voter ID whatsoever. So yeah, that’s what I saw.

    I want to know how to bring those previous Obama voters but now suddenly racist voters back into the Democratic fold. I’d like to win elections again.

    I’ll conclude from that that further conversation would be pointless and bid you good day.

    You too.

  285. 285
    Bailey says:

    @Applejinx:

    She’s downright reverent of Trey Gowdy. I think he looks like a creep and has way overreached by pretending a document was classified because he thought it was super inappropriate that it wasn’t classified, and treating it like it in fact was. That’s the best of my understanding of his crimes. Seems a sort of stick-up-the-ass crime, insisting he knew better than IIRC the CIA who claimed the doc wasn’t classified at all, which benefited Clinton.

    I would agree; he looks like Alfalfa to me and the endless, endless Benghazi investigations were absurd. No question.

    I’ve seen worse behavior than that. I could listen to Gowdy, and might well hear stuff that resonates with what my North Dakota friend sees in him.

    We might see him taking some good actions in future. One thing about it, I do see how completely enemy-making it is to conflate guys like Trey Gowdy with guys like Darrell Issa, or Gingrich. They’re not all the same.

    And this is kind of my point. For the record, we’re not going to get Trey Gowdy’s vote and that wasn’t my intention in posting the video. The point was to listen to the message and adopt it for how we speak together in every day life. If a self-described “liberal” listens to that speech (or at least that isolated portion of it) and somehow comes away disagreeing with it, then I guess I’d have to conclude we are now living on separate planets.

    Though it appears that even the first hurdle cannot be cleared and ears are closed entirely to maybe even the slight concept of hearing it. Elections are going to be tough in the future.

  286. 286
    Geeno says:

    Where will the new Nürnberg be? I say Madison Square Garden.

  287. 287
    father pussbucket says:

    The “email” in the Hillary cloud is expected, but I’m even more shocked by “lie”. Try finding that in the Trump cloud.

  288. 288
    D58826 says:

    Every time I think it can’t get worse it does. Consider that Trump has pledged to appoint judges that will reverse gay marriage and Roe v Wade.
    The thing is the reactionary right has an entire list of decisions that they want top see reversed:
    1. reapportionment – one person one vote
    2. NY regents – school prayer
    3. Gideon – right to a lawyer
    4. Miranda – right to remain silent
    5. Griswold – legalize contraception
    6. Loving – interracial marriage but that might have to wait till Thomas leaves the court
    7. Brown – Rehnquist though that it was wrongly decided
    8. all of the post 1937 economic decisions
    9 and I’m sure this list isn’t exhaustive.

    What they would like is to go back to the Lockner era with its ‘right to contract’ jurisprudence that gutted all state level progressive legislation and the new deal until 1937. Interestingly for originality the right to contract is not in the constitution. but details details. They would also like to go back to the Lockner definition of the commerce clause that would pretty much wipe out the entire federal regulatory state. From what I’ve read a number of legal scholars at the Federalist Society are quite eager to go back to Lockner.
    Will they go that far? I don’t know. But I can see Roberts following his usual pattern of upholding a law but putting procedural barriers in place that make it impossible to actual enforce the law. The Ledbetter decision and I think there was one involving class action suits.

  289. 289
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @father pussbucket: I’d like to see a word cloud derived from The Nation.

  290. 290
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Two words: neo-liberal, warmonger.

  291. 291
    D58826 says:

    @Applejinx: Sounds like my sister. But she and my sister still come out winners. The GOP will enact their preferred agenda but they can keep their pretty little hands pure and clean by saying – well I didn’t vote for Trump. Really don’t want to go back for my annual XMAS visit

  292. 292

    @Omnes Omnibus: Aren’t neocons the warmongers? So she is both a neoliberal and a neocon!

  293. 293
    D58826 says:

    attribution: CBS via YouTubeEx-CIA torture guru Jose Rodriguez is said to be on Donald Trump’s short list to run the CIA.

  294. 294
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: A valid point.

  295. 295
    misterpuff says:

    @Kay: He was all up Trump’s ass on “rescinding burdensome regulations”, so yeah a craven GOPer.

  296. 296

    Jesus these comments are stupid and depressing. Democrats in disarray! Man fuck this noise. The Republican barely won and lost the popular vote. We gained seats. NC is likely to have dumped Gov HB2. Demographics are STILL on our side. Just fucking relax and stop Monday morning quarterbacking. Jesus much smarter people than you are trying to figure this out. When fucking PHDs who study politics for a living aren’t sure what happened, you sure as hell don’t know just a few days out. What we do now is so damn simple a tea partier could figure it out. Donate and volunteer. Get involved locally with the party. That’s it. The rest is going to fall in place. All we need right now is bodies, money, and motivation. Strategy will present itself when smart people start figuring it out. Look at the Dem bench. Look at the leadership speaking out. Plus it’s not a matter of if Trump will piss off everybody, but when.

  297. 297
    matryoshka says:

    Here I am writing in invisible ink again, but if there are any Juicers in Missouri who want to do a meetup to bitch, moan, and strategize, and you can actually see this message with your special Show Me glasses, respond and we can get in touch via email.

  298. 298
    matryoshka says:

    @Betty Cracker: Mentioned this earlier and got the crickets soundtrack in response, but what about a protest of the economic sort–a day of non-participation, say Jan. 20? No need to clog up the streets. Just stay home, take a mental health day, don’t buy anything, do go anywhere unnecessary.

  299. 299
    J R in WV says:

    @jah:

    Disenfranchised is not a synonym for suppressed, dolt.

    Suppressed is what happens to people registered to vote, yet who cannot or fear to even after getting registered and having proper ID. Because there is one voting machine for 100,000 voters, or because their registration is lost in some other precinct’s records or out of order in the 2,000 page book. Etc.

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