Open Thread: Massachusetts Potholeheads

Must… resist… Andrew Sullivan… joke…

I’m finally seeing anti-Prop 4 commercials during the local tv news — a full week after early voting started in this state. Those ads are both sanctimonious and dishonest, and if I hadn’t already voted in favor, their will nobody think of the children!!! puling would’ve strongly influenced me to do so. (The pro-legalization people have been running extremely discreet ads for the last month or so, and they didn’t feel the need to lie.) I haven’t even been around marijuana since the mid-1980s, but the current “medical use is okay, as long as you’re a white person with enough money, but no way will we allow our nice neighborhoods to be defiled by pot shops or the human detritus they attract” patchwork goes beyond farce into tragedy.

Our (Repub) governor, Boston’s (Dem) mayor, and Cardinal O’Malley (still a force, here in the Commonwealth) have all come out against the proposal, arguing that it will enable filthy cartels to further target ‘the most vulnerable neighborhoods,’ while simultaneously claiming that nobody gets arrested for possession these days anyways. (Technically, adults can only be fined if they’re busted carrying less than an ounce, but ‘possession with intent to distribute’ is still a valuable loophole for law enforcement officers looking to keep Those People in their place.)

Of course, the real make-or-break state for full national legalization is California… although I find it somehow endearing that Maine apparently hopes to replace its decaying pulpwood industry with an even more renewable plant product…

186 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    medical use is okay, as long as you’re a white person with enough money, but no way will we allow our nice neighborhoods to be defiled by pot shops or the human detritus they attract” patchwork goes beyond farce into tragedy.

    I know you’re in Massachusetts, but considering who the GOP nominee is, are you surprised?

  2. 2
    Keith P. says:

    Nevada’s where the real legalization magic is – legal weed in Vegas. (I was last there 10+ years ago and scored an eighth from my limo driver…mid-grade that took too long just to get)
    That would also make every I-10 state west of Texas a legalized state…gonna really put some pressure on Texas to either legalize, decriminalize, or hire more state troopers.

  3. 3
    trollhattan says:

    Is it not common knowledge a significant amount of California weed is grown by Mexican cartels on public land? Cause it is.

  4. 4

    Mexican weed has all but disappeared from market, it all comes directly from American-owned farms in CA & CO nowadays

    Once upon a variation, long ago, sticky gold Columbian bud was the outright Gaia-damned shiznit. It was like hashish that was grown. I’d pay a pretty penny for it today, and would make a fucking killing with it if it was legal. And it’s the polar opposite of the soporific stoner green that’s the only thing available since 1987.

    And it smelled like cinnamon, not skunk.

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    This Bill Weld interview on Rachel is crazy.

  6. 6
    redshirt says:

    Yeah, Mass voting for full legalization at the same time as Maine will take the wind out of Maine’s sails. Might get some ski season upside, but otherwise, no huge bump like CO has experienced.

  7. 7

    @Baud: What is he saying? He sounded like a normal person in his interview with Judy Woodruff last, not at all like a typical politician.

  8. 8
    Keith P. says:

    @BruceFromOhio: In my post-college days, the good shit was BC bud (British Columbia). Planes would fly the weed in from Canada, which was like gold, since kind bud was a super-rare thing to come across. Then, US growing exploded (early 2000?), and BC bud became synonymous with mid-grade…I had some amazing – AMAZING – weed when I first moved back to Houston. The stuff wasn’t vacuum-sealed into hard nuggets and felt/smelled like it was dropped in sugar syrup. And it was the kind of stuff that would leave my car reeking of skunk the next morning, even if it spent only 15 minutes in a bag in my pocket. I’m jonesing just talking about…I wish Colorado was a shorter drive!

  9. 9
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:


    Is it not common knowledge a significant amount of California weed is grown by Mexican cartels on public land? Cause it is.

    It’s certainly common knowledge here in CA – so much so that I’ve overheard my son’s middle-school classmates discussing the environmental damage routinely caused by the growers, with the same sort of earnest concern they apply to any other sort of pollution. That’s one of the many reasons I voted for legalization, although I am entirely uninterested in using the stuff myself. Legalize it, tax the hell out of it, regulate it tightly, and keep it the heck away from me.

  10. 10
    lamh36 says:

    So living with mom…no cable..but thank goodness I have so many DVD/BluRays…fun times watching John Wick with mom.

    Moms: “oh…that’s that Reed man”
    Me: “Keanu Reeves, ma.”
    Moms: “That’s what I said…Reed”

    Mom: “they didn’t have to kill da dog”
    Me: “ma…I told you they was gonna kill the dog”
    Mom: “oh he gon get them”

    Mom: “oh so they know who John Wick is…” (for the 2nd time)
    Me: “yeah…he’s…”
    Mom: “no don’t tell me…”

    Mom: “what is all that on his body..”
    Me: “tattoos”
    Mom: “that ain’t real right…”
    Me: (stares at mom)

    Mom: “…didn’t have to kill the Wick’s dog”
    Me: “I’t John Wick”
    Mom: “whateve… they didn’t have to kill it”

    Mom: (every time #JohnWick kills someone) “ooh shit…(jumps)…damn”
    Me: LOL

    Oh, and she likes to read ALL the English subtitles when they speak Russian on …OUT LOUD…

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: He’s struggling with staying somewhat loyal to his ticket and trying to get people to vote for Clinton.

  12. 12
    bookdragon01 says:

    I have mixed feelings since I’m mildly asthmatic and somewhat allergic so I don’t savor having to hold my breath in public places like I used to when tobacco was everywhere. I understand from a criminal justice pov why legalization is good, but from the personal standpoint of looking at reverting to hermit status because going out anywhere isn’t worth it, I’m hoping PA holds off.

    Also, CO and CA? What about Ohio? When I lived there in the 80s it was a fairly open secret that pot was the 3rd largest cash crop, right behind corn and soybeans. And since you got more $$ for less product a lot of small farms kept going by growing weed in between rows of corn off in the middle of the field.

  13. 13
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: So Gov. Johnson is sharing his stash with his VP nominee?

  14. 14
    Keith P. says:

    @Baud: The end was a bit surreal. Maddow shows an ad with Weld’s face, overlaid with “You shouldn’t have to apologize to your kids for Trump/Clinton”, and Weld just straight-up says he doesn’t agree with that and that he doesn’t agree with Johnson on a lot of things. Ouch.

  15. 15
  16. 16
    hovercraft says:

    He basically called Trump crazy, he would wobble off course from the pressure of the job. Psychologically unfit. Skirts with endorsing Hillary sings her praises, without coming all the way out and saying vote for her, but he says people should make their own decision. Won’t say that Johnson would make a better president than Hillary. Sings his praises but adds that doesn’t take back the nice things he just said about Hillary.

    ETA: This reply was supposed to be to SC.
    He’s here vouching foe Mrs, Clinton, because someone other than democrats should.

  17. 17
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: My wife’s first take was a concern that users will smoke and drive. We’re going to talk though all the props this weekend

  18. 18
    trollhattan says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
    Exactamundo–I want these murderous assholes outta here. It would be an interesting dynamic if the ruinous grows on gummint land were Bundys instead of cartels. (Boy, do I miss “Justified.”)

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    O’Donnell hyping new survey about Florida early vote. Eight points in favor for Clinton according to his guy.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @Baud: Survey saying 28% of GOP early voters supporting Clinton.

  21. 21
  22. 22
    lamh36 says:

    Oh and NOT really Marilyn Manson fan but always at least ONE song this from #JohnWick is a banger…right?

    Marilyn Manson John Wick soundtrack

  23. 23
    Schlemazel says:

    @Keith P.:
    I’d lay the mortgage on ‘more cops’ as that is the revenue generator they all love.

  24. 24
    Mnemosyne says:


    I know you said you were moving for a good reason, but I think I missed the reason — new and better job, I hope?

    My mom likes movies with hunky male leads, so she made us watch John Carter (of Mars). It’s actually not a bad little adventure flick.

  25. 25
    chromeagnomen says:

    tell you what, there’s plenty of mexican around in massachusetts (i hear…). a lot less expensive and does the job.

  26. 26
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: Joyce Karam ‏@ Joyce_Karam 10m10 minutes ago
    “I am here vouching for Secretary Clinton” .- Bill Weld, 3rd party VP candidate tells @maddow . Wow

    I kind of want to like Bill Weld, but lecturing people about “jocular votes” when you’re candidate on a “jocular” ticket… I don’t know.

    @Baud: interesting, I’ve been seeing lots of Concern about FL today. Voters not contacted, 80,000 VBM ballots not yet sent in, decreased A-A turn-out. ETA: Those 80K, all Dems

  27. 27
    Mnemosyne says:


    She must read the AAA magazine — that’s their reason for opposing it.

    I can’t make up my mind. I am also tired of the fucking illegal growers ruining the land and letting their pit bulls kill passers-by, but AFAICT, this is yet another poorly-written proposition that’s just going to fuck things up worse than they already are instead of unfucking them.

  28. 28
    Keith P. says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: As someone who *always* drove stoned when “on”, I think the notion that stoned drivers are on par with drunk drivers is way off. I’ve driven drunk enough to where I had double vision and other times where I barely remembered driving home….it’s a scary feeling. Driving stoned is nothing like that…focus is on point, driving at the speed limit, paying attention to all signs. I have/had zero – ZERO – fear of driving stoned (except for getting caught, but these days it’s supposed to just be a citation). YMMW, though, as someone not accustomed to being stoned would be better served by bumming a ride; they get too paranoid and are trying to process too many sensations rather than just go with the flow.

  29. 29
    JGabriel says:

    Anne Laurie @ Top:

    I haven’t even been around marijuana since the mid-1980s, but the current “medical use is okay, as long as you’re a white person with enough money, but no way will we allow our nice neighborhoods to be defiled by pot shops or the human detritus they attract” patchwork goes beyond farce into tragedy.

    I haven’t partaken since, well, sometime last century I suppose, and I’m not a big fan. That said, more than half the country has at least tried pot at some point or another, and you can’t arrest half the country. That means that the only purpose marijuana laws can possibly serve is to enable selective prosecution.

    So, if we had an initiative in NY to fully legalize pot, I’d support it. I don’t know that I’d ever smoke it again even if it were legal, but I know I’m sick of our states and our country sending so many people to jail over an infraction that more than half the country has committed.

  30. 30
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:


    My wife’s first take was a concern that users will smoke and drive. We’re going to talk though all the props this weekend

    That’s definitely a concern, but to me the potential benefits of reduction in many other kinds of harm outweigh that – and this despite my husband and son being hit head-on last year by two dumb girls who were smoking while driving. Luckily, they were drifting at about 3 mph and my husband was stopped.

    It took me three hours, spread out over two days, to get through the monster San Francisco ballot. I don’t know why I bother to vote for local/state elected reps when they won’t do their goddamned jobs. Next week, assuming the legal-pot referendum passes, my coworkers and I get to start working on local land use regulations for it. Should be interesting.

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ll see. So much bad information out there.

  32. 32
    JJ says:

    @Baud: Was that 28% of R FL voters? Great news!

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    FWIW, I’ve never done the weed.

  34. 34
    hovercraft says:

    If this is true, then maybe people can calm the fuck down. Actually no, I want everyone to stay scared. The one depressing thing about that stat is that if true, it means Little Marco will be re-elected easily. Sigh.

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    ….. and Flordia, again, and Trump, and that delightful KelleyAnne Conway and all the professionalism she’s brought to the campaign

    Kenneth P. Vogel ‏@ kenvogel 6h6 hours ago
    Just to give you an idea of how prepared the Trump campaign is: A Fla. GOTV vendor sent out an email TODAY trying to hire Trump canvassers.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @JJ: Yes, of those Rs that early voted.

  37. 37
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: That’s fucking nuts. It’s nuts.

  38. 38
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    Like everything else, legalized weed is racist – lock black people up for selling and using something all the white people use and sell without going to jail (mostly), then legalize it after it’s clear that there’s a huge market for white people to exploit, then exclude anyone who was ever in jail for using and selling it legally. I’m still for legalized weed, but it needs to come with complete amnesty for offenders who wouldn’t have been arrested under any new law that makes their “crime” legal. So sick of the blatant racist fucking stacked deck bullshit around drug laws. Just like it’s now an “opiod epidemic” public health crisis now that everyone’s nice white family member is a junkie, instead of a law enforcement matter for “those people” who need to be locked up instead of treated.

  39. 39
    NW Phil says:

    It’s not legal everywhere?!?
    I live in Washington state, barely notice that pot is legal here. Bigger problem is with the large grocery stores now being able to sell liquor (used to have it only in state liquor stores). Kids were walking out with the liquor, because the stores were not keeping it separate from the under 21 shoppers. Now they have moved it besides or behind the cashiers and it’s a pain to shop for it tucked away in cabinets.

  40. 40
    Brachiator says:

    I am strongly against legalization. After reading this thread, I can’t stand the idea that sanctimonious beer snobs will be supplanted by sanctimonious bud snobs.

    More seriously, here in California, I am looking forward to voting for legalization and against the death penalty. Along with voting for Hillary, it’s gonna be a delight to vote next week.

  41. 41
    hovercraft says:

    What the hell. When were you born and where?

  42. 42
    John Weiss says:

    @BruceFromOhio: Most growers of pot don’t bother to ferment it, which immensely smooths out the smoke and increases the good flavor!

  43. 43
    chris says:

    @lamh36: I just finished John Wick ten minutes ago. A good action flick, just what I needed to take me away from this bloody election. Now I’m trying to imagine your Mom’s voice, “The Boogeyman!”

  44. 44
    Corner Stone says:

    Sec Clinton is sounding like Eva Peron and shit. She is fired up and Ready to go!

  45. 45

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    Legalize it, tax the hell out of it, regulate it tightly, and keep it the heck away from me.

    Guaranteeing it profits MegaCorp, Inc, and only MegaCorp, Inc., which ain’t much better.

  46. 46
    Corner Stone says:

    @chris: John Wick is who you send to kill the fookin boogey man.

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    @hovercraft: sorry. I’ll go sniff some glue to compensate.

  48. 48
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: Yeah, yesterday Charlie Cook (no liberal) said the Dems are on track to take 5-7 Senate seats; just saw a tweet that said Politico is predicting the GOP holds the Senate.

  49. 49
    RaflW says:

    I’m a long-time sober person who gave up occasional dabbling in pot well before showing legal booze the door. I also spend 8-10 weeks a year in Colorado (to snowboard, hike, and to spend time with friends and family).

    And I think legalization for personal consumption is the least-bad option. There should be sufficient tax revenue to fund reasonable and real treatment programs for people who need help quitting (and that should be more true of booze sales too, IMO). There should be controls for preventing underage purchase, and at least some effort to keep kids deterred till their still-forming brains can achieve some adult stability.

    But clearly prohibition has failed. That bit on the OP about the dealer opposing legalization was funny in a funny-sad sort of way. But if s/he is smart, they’ll figure out a way to be in on the ground floor of legal sales.

    Lets make pot safe, legal and taxed. And like homebrew beer and wine, if an individual wants to own 1 or 2 potted ‘ferns’, hey that’s OK too. It shouldn’t all turn into above-board but rapacious capitalism like the InBev and Diageo.

  50. 50
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NW Phil:

    What, nobody thought to buy a bunch of the “locks” you put over the top of the liquor bottle that have to be removed by the cashier? Here in CA, we’ve been selling liquor at grocery stores for many years now. The only stuff that gets locked in a cabinet is the really expensive stuff ($50+ per bottle).

  51. 51
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Well that’s just precious, they are really on top of this whole GOTV thing.

  52. 52
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: EXCELLENT point. I agree that small-time users and dealers should have amnesty, and the fact that they won’t is a major flaw in CA’s proposed law. On the other hand, it wouldn’t have a chance in hell of passing if it included that – and drawing a line between those small-timers and the cartel shitheads is way too subtle an art for a ballot proposition. Best we can hope for is to legalize now and clean up the fallout later.

  53. 53
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    so she made us watch John Carter (of Mars). It’s actually not a bad little adventure flick.

    Given all the talk about pot in this thread, one has to wonder…

  54. 54
    Corner Stone says:

    @hovercraft: I’ve never done an illegal drug either. Nor had a cup of coffee or smoked a cigarette.
    I have so many other vices…I have to focus.

  55. 55
    kindness says:

    I’ve seen a couple people I know on FB post stuff about how CA’s legalization proposition isn’t good enough and should be voted down. What tools. The victory should be tossed on the purity rocks and trampled. Thankfully they’ll be unhappy come 11/9. And really none of this will mean much until a new DEA head reschedules cannabis from it’s schedule 1 listing. I figure Hillary will do it. Funny how Obama felt he couldn’t touch it.

  56. 56

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Gaia strike me where I stand cursing all that lives and breathes, this, this, this. No fucking reason for this bullshit, no fucking reason at all.

  57. 57
    bystander says:

    @Baud: …and supposedly 8 points ahead of Trump. I’m going to try to believe it.

    O’Donnell saying that Moody’s Analytics predicting Clinton victory.

  58. 58
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: Looks like you picked the wrong election season…

  59. 59
    Schlemazel says:

    I have been married 42 years & have not smoked dope in 42 years because it scare my bride, not the drug, just the crime. If it became legal I could easily see myself partaking again. I admit very much enjoying the relaxed loose feeling it gave me. I do wonder what sort of pandoras box we are opening but we already have legalized intoxicants so they should be things we can deal with if we would only be adults for a few minutes.

  60. 60
    JGabriel says:


    My wife’s first take was a concern that users will smoke and drive.

    There are already users that smoke and drive. Best thing to do is legalize it, tax it, and tightly regulate it – which should include laws against toking and driving, just like we have laws against drinking and driving.

  61. 61
    Ian says:

    The argument is horsedung. Almost everyone who smokes weed also uses their motor vehicle. A few are affected by it, mostly infrequent users. By the logic, ban alcohol because people might drive on it.

  62. 62
  63. 63
    Schlemazel says:

    The Mrs is in the same boat but she grew up in tiny town Northern MN so pot would have been very hard to come by.

  64. 64
    Feathers says:

    @Baud: I’ll have to catch it. Bill Weld is the only Republican I’ve ever voted for, other than those I had personal connection with. He was running against John Silber, the mad president of BU. Silber once called Helen Vendler, head of the Harvard English Department “Henry the VIII with tits.” Wonderful man, basically named everything on the BU campus after himself. Fave Weld memory – busted by the Boston Phoenix for smoking weed at a free Green Day concert at the Hatch Shell.

    @lamh36: John Wick is the best. Jealous you can watch with your mom, I have to preview Masterpiece Mystery for my mother to make sure it isn’t too intense for her.

  65. 65
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mnemosyne: She was reading Westways while we were talking about it.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    The Moody’s prediction is based on voodoo. But it’s good news.

  67. 67
    RaflW says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I think one of the hardest parts of legalization is figuring out field sobriety tests and equivalents to breathalyzers for pot. BAC has a much shorter and more predictable metabolic line than THC.

    I do worry a bit that people will smoke (or eat a cookie or a jelly bean or whatever) and ski stoned. But they currently sell 24 oz cans of Bud and Pabst in nearly ever on-mountain eatery in Colorado, and I think drunk skiers/snowboarders are a bigger problem.

  68. 68
    Brachiator says:

    @Keith P.:

    As someone who *always* drove stoned when “on”, I think the notion that stoned drivers are on par with drunk drivers is way off.

    I’ve heard drunk drivers make the same claims about how carefully they drive.

    Even with increasing state legalization, fed laws haven’t changed. What needs to happen is for weed to be demoted from being considered as bad as heroin and other drugs, and for serious testing on how it can affect driving and other tasks to begin.

    Also, in California, social workers claim that too many parents smoke weed around their kids, with resulting child lung problems. Unfortunately, the person making this claim on a debate about legalization was fuzzy on the statistics that might put this into perspective.

  69. 69
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Keith P.: Ain’t a citation here in CA; DUI is DUI, doesn’t matter why you’re impaired.

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baud: It’s fucking nuts. It’s nuts.

  71. 71
    hovercraft says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Wow you people are making me blush, Mary Jane and I were very friendly back in my college days, I used to drink way too much, I still smoke, but rarely drink coffee, and I was too chicken to try anything harder when I was young and more stupid than I am today, thank God.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:


    The argument is that there’s no way to tell if someone is high and driving the way you can test someone’s blood alcohol level to see if they were drinking and driving. What’s probably going to happen is that a lot of people are going to have to go to court and fight an unfightable DUI charge because they’ll have no way to prove they weren’t high if a cop says he could smell it.

    And, yeah, coming from a family with several members who have struggled with addiction, I’m a little skeptical that every pot smoker everywhere knows if they’re too high to drive so it could never be a problem.

  73. 73
    Doug R says:

    @Mnemosyne: Hunky? I guess. I really like the Princess of Mars, those legs, it’s a wonder she can’t leap as far as John Carter.

  74. 74
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @hovercraft: I have friends for whom that is true as well.

  75. 75
    Brachiator says:

    @Corner Stone:

    John Wick is who you send to kill the fookin boogey man.

    And John Wick 2 is on the way this winter. I fear for his dog.

  76. 76
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @hovercraft: Yup, Baud’s lost my support with that one.

  77. 77
    Baud says:


    Checklist for 2020:

    1) Get on ballots.
    2) Get high.

  78. 78
    Bubblegum Tate says:


    I’ve seen a couple people I know on FB post stuff about how CA’s legalization proposition isn’t good enough and should be voted down. What tools.

    God, those people drive me up the fucking wall. “But Monsanto! GMO weed! Big business! RJ Reynolds! Rabble rabble rabble!” I argued with them for a bit, then decided I had better things to do. I’m just glad Prop 64 is likely to pass despite their dumbshit objections.

  79. 79
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @Baud: I’ve never (voluntarily) inhaled the weed either. I can be VP?

  80. 80
    Feathers says:

    @NW Phil: Before MADD and the 21 everywhere, Virginia had the best system for drinking. You could buy beer by the glass at 18, other alcohol by the glass at 19, take-away booze in bottles or cans at 21. That makes a lot of sense. Cuts down on pre party binge drinking. Plus, not drinking in high school was fine when you knew you were going to start in college. When you know you are going to start drinking illegally in a few years anyway, you are much more likely to start earlier. It’s a system that helps the bar and restaurant businesses and help colleges encourage responsible drinking.

    I’m in Mass, haven’t voted yet, probably will tomorrow, realizing I need to look over the ballot questions.

  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    @Brachiator: Stole that from me… *Killed that from me*! People keep asking if I’m back and I haven’t really had an answer. But now, yeah, I’m thinkin’ I’m back. So you can either hand over your son or you can die screaming alongside him!

  82. 82
    Keith P. says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: The citation here (TX) is for possession. It used to be a night in jail, but in the last few years, they’ve been loosening the penalties. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of someone in TX arrested for DUI based on weed…not sure how that would work. I’m sure if you sound like Brad Pitt in True Romance, I imagine you’re getting a DUI, but experienced stoners don’t sound like they’re drunk.
    Last time I was pulled over (again, several years ago), I was stoned on hash and was carrying a quarter bag (which reeked). I got searched twice, but I wasn’t given any kind of sobriety test, nor did they find my bag, so they let me on my way…but I was also very cooperative with them, not giving them a reason to jam me.

  83. 83
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Come on, you of all people on this blog should know that the quality of the crumpet does not equal the quality of the movie. For example, Uma Thurman is amazeballs, but the Avengers movie with her and a Ralph Fiennes was godawful.

  84. 84
    lamh36 says:

    Mom LOVED John Wick.

    Now mom is watching #Gattaca…don’t have the patience to watch this with her though…lol
    Too tired for it


  85. 85
    hovercraft says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Who knew that there were so many Mormons who are Juicers.
    Or are you Witnesses?

    ETA: My family are all Seventh Day Adventists, if I didn’t look like them I’d say they stole me.

  86. 86
  87. 87
    RaflW says:

    @Ian: Well, no. You make drunk driving illegal, and you shift the culture.

    I was just in Ireland in May and every pub had n.a. beers and of course soft drinks and unlike how I imagined Ireland to be 20 years ago, no one blinks if you don’t hoist a pint — they all know that drink driving laws are very tough there now. Doesn’t totally stop the problem, but has had a an effect.

    I am not quite so sanguine as some of the posters here who claim pot doesn’t reduce driver safety. It may be less of an impact than booze, but count me skeptical that it’s zero. Then again, sleep-deprived driving is as bad or worse than drunk driving.

  88. 88
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: Just don’t ‘Get Small’*.

    *Old Steve Martin reference.

  89. 89
    Brachiator says:


    Mom LOVED John Wick.

    She sounds like quite a lady.

  90. 90
    EEH says:

    @hovercraft: I’ve never smoked weed either and I grew up right on the Mexican border where it was readily available. It smells gross to me and I’d no more pollute my body with it than I would cigarettes. My late husband grew up in CO and had never smoked it either. We were both born in the early 60’s.

  91. 91
    Mary G says:

    I voted for legal weed with no reservations. Like Conster, prohibition is a racist tool. I had a license for a couple of years and it works way better than opioids for pain. If alcohol is legal weed should be too.

  92. 92
    hovercraft says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
    Big Dog, is that you Bill?

  93. 93
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’ll just leave this here:

    Why is marijuana banned? The real reason is worse than you think

    Across the world, more and more people are asking: Why is marijuana banned? Why are people still sent to prison for using or selling it?

    This article was originally published by The Influence, a news site that covers the full spectrum of human relationships with drugs. Follow The Influence on Facebook or Twitter.

    Most of us assume it’s because someone, somewhere sat down with the scientific evidence, and figured out that cannabis is more harmful than other drugs we use all the time—like alcohol and cigarettes.

    Somebody worked it all out, in our best interest.

    But when I started to go through the official archives—researching my book Chasing The Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs—to find out why cannabis was banned back in the 1930s, I discovered that’s not what happened.

    Not at all.

    In 1929, a man called Harry Anslinger was put in charge of the Department of Prohibition in Washington DC. But alcohol prohibition had been a disaster. Gangsters had taken over whole neighborhoods. Alcohol—controlled by criminals—had become even more poisonous.

    So alcohol prohibition finally ended–and Harry Anslinger was afraid. He found himself in charge of a huge government department, with nothing for it to do. Up until then, he had said that cannabis was not a problem. It doesn’t harm people, he explained, and “there is no more absurd fallacy” than the idea it makes people violent.

    But then—suddenly, when his department needed a new purpose—he announced he had changed his mind.

    He explained to the public what would happen if you smoked cannabis.

    First, you will fall into “a delirious rage.” Then you will be gripped by “dreams… of an erotic character.” Then you will “lose the power of connected thought.” Finally, you will reach the inevitable end-point: “Insanity.”

    Marijuana turns man into a wild beast. If marijuana bumped into Frankenstein’s monster on the stairs, Anslinger warned, the monster would drop dead of fright.

    Harry Anslinger became obsessed with one case in particular. In Florida, a boy called Victor Lacata hacked his family to death with an axe. Anslinger explained to America: This is what will happen when you smoke “the demon weed.” The case became notorious. The parents of the US were terrified.

    What evidence did Harry Anslinger have? It turns out at this time he wrote to the 30 leading scientists on this subject, asking if cannabis was dangerous, and if there should be a ban.

    Twenty-nine wrote back and said no.

    Anslinger picked out the one scientist who said yes, and presented him to the world. The press—obsessed with Victor Lacata’s axe—cheered them on.

    In a panic that gripped America, marijuana was banned. The US told other countries they had to do the same. Many countries said it was a dumb idea, and refused to do it. For example, Mexico decided their drug policy should be run by doctors. Their medical advice was that cannabis didn’t cause these problems, and they refused to ban it. The US was furious. Anslinger ordered them to fall into line. The Mexicans held out—until, in the end, the US cut off the supply of all legal painkillers to Mexico. People started to die in agony in their hospitals. So with regret, Mexico sacked the doctor—and launched its own drug war.

    But at home, questions were being asked. A leading American doctor called Michael Ball wrote to Harry Anslinger, puzzled. He explained he had used cannabis as a medical student, and it had only made him sleepy. Maybe cannabis does drive a small number of people crazy, he said—but we need to fund some scientific studies to find out.

    Anslinger wrote back firmly. “The marihuana evil can no longer be temporized with,” he explained, and he would fund no independent science. Then, or ever.

    For years, doctors kept approaching him with evidence he was wrong, and he began to snap, telling them they were “treading on dangerous ground” and should watch their mouths.

  94. 94
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @hovercraft: I said that I have friends for whom that was true. I never said it was true of me.

  95. 95
    lamh36 says:

    @Mnemosyne: I happened upon John Carter one night on AMC..I really do like it.


    Me: I think we should watch John Carter next time
    Mom: I seen John Carter…
    Me: No you didn’t…what’s it’s bout
    Mom: I did…with Denzel…
    Me: That’s John Q!
    Mom: oh…

  96. 96
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    here we go…

    Jessie Opoien ‏@ jessieopie 2h2 hours ago Wisconsin, USA
    .@ RonJohnsonWI tells @ BeloitDailyNews he believes HillaryClinton should be impeached if elected president

  97. 97
    JMG says:

    @bystander: Steve Schale, native Floridian, Democratic activist and vote counting expert, says that Clinton + 8 poll is a fantasy. He believes Clinton is ahead by a bit, but could still lose without major GOTV. I’ve been reading his blog, and he knows his stuff, so I trust him. Same way I trust Tom Jensen of PPP when he says that Survey USA poll Trump + 7 in North Carolina just can’t be right.

  98. 98
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Did he sponsor Reefer Madness?

  99. 99
    chopper says:

    @Keith P.:

    I’m still getting used to buying the shit legally here in WA. I’m also getting used to the shit for sale here, hoo boy.

  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I never said my mom had good taste in movies. But she did make us watch John Carter with her, and it wasn’t bad. It’s an old-fashioned action/adventure movie, so it’s pretty tame except for the scanty clothing on the eye candy (both male and female).


    My mom and I spent a lot of time in hotel rooms together last year, and it wasn’t so bad once I got her to stop watching Fox News when I was in the room. I’ll watch all of her stupid cop reality shows five times before I’ll watch a minute of Fox News.

  101. 101
    Origuy says:

    From what I’ve seen, most medical users here in CA use edibles rather than smoking. The dosage can be more easily controlled. The local alt weekly is full of ads for MM clinics. Some of them have been running ads opposing Prob 64, probably because they are afraid of competition. I think that’s misguided; they have an edge since they are well established and have a wide supply of different forms of cannabinoids. THC isn’t the only active ingredient in marijuana; it’s just the one that gets you high. Others have pain-killing or muscle-relaxing effects.
    I’m also tired of having public lands made dangerous or out of bounds due to illegal pot growers.

  102. 102
    Mike J says:

    @NW Phil:

    Now they have moved it besides or behind the cashiers and it’s a pain to shop for it tucked away in cabinets.

    It’s also more expensive. When the state ran the stores, they got all the markup. To make it revenue neutral, the several dollars per bottle tax was added on. But now Costco gets their cut, which was the whole point.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know. But when you read that article you get a feel for just how easy it is to warp public policy.

  104. 104
    hovercraft says:

    I’ve been linking to him the last several days, he was Obama’s Florida guy, so yes he knows his stuff. This “exit poll” is exciting, but as I said above, we need to stay scared, because it’s just one survey.

  105. 105
    mike in dc says:

    Clinton 53% of early vote in FL. 28% GOP crossover. Heavy latino turnout. Projected to win FL 48-40(which, interestingly, is about 4 points above her best recent polling there). GOTV matters.

  106. 106
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @JGabriel: When Washington legalized a few years back, I didn’t know whether I’d ever smoke again either. I hadn’t really been high since grad school in the late ’80s. But now that I have three nice pot boutiques to choose from in my small town, I kinda like that I can decide to smoke some Blueberry Cookie or Obama Kush (my favorite) instead of making a martini after a long day at work.

  107. 107
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    I’ve never lived anywhere that didn’t have retail liquor sales, so all you people with state liquor stores sound like refugees from a communist country or something. I have no concept of what it must be like to be at the grocery store or drugstore or Target and not be able to say, “Oh, I should pick up a six-pack/bottle of wine/bottle of rum while I’m here.”

  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:


    This is just a personal thing about which reasonable people can disagree, but I don’t need to stay scared. I need to keep feeling triumphant and like we can grind the Donald’s face in the dirt if we keep working at it. Staying scared just means I want to pull the covers over my head and get into a fetal position for our inevitable defeat.

    But, then, I am a lifelong Cubs fan, so YMMV.

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Lynn Collins in a metal bikini, what’s not to like?

    More seriously, it wasn’t a bad adaptation of the novel. I think what really killed it was that Disney really didn’t have any idea how to market it properly. I remember the initial commercial during the Super Bowl. I knew immediately what it was the minute I saw one of the Tharks, but because they didn’t go with the title of the novel, I’m not sure most people had any idea what they were looking at.

  110. 110
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    Medical use in OH is now legal but in limbo. There will be 18 grower licenses issued but they will be quite spendy – top level license for 180K /20K app fee and second tier 10% of those. And docs have to be licensed to prescribe for a qualifying condition. It’s going to be at least this time next year before anything is really in place.

    I know someone with a qualifying condition who has a custom crafted tincture of non-psychoactive CBD oil. It burns a bit sublingually – the best biovailability method but is a fine light sedative and antispasmodic. So I’m told, of course.

  111. 111
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Pretty much the entire marketing department got fired after that debacle. It was partially a culture clash — Pixar markets movies on a different schedule than Disney live action does, and Andrew Stanton was being handled through Pixar — but mostly that the marketing department was not very good and had gotten very complacent.

    When the Chief Creative Officer of the Company thinks you fucked up the marketing for several movies that he had a personal stake in, your days are numbered.

  112. 112
    JJ says:

    I have a friend making a doc about cannabis oil for medical use. He attends an annual conference at Harvard on medical marijuana. He said historically the lobby was alway a cloud of smoke. But this year the audience was filled with VCs and investment banks. The money is getting very ready for this to explode in medicine.

  113. 113
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yup. I know people who shouldn’t smoke weed. It doesn’t agree with them. Just like I know people who shouldn’t drink alcohol, or shouldn’t drink coffee. It’s the same thing.

    Weed is no worse for humans, empirically, than the above-mentioned legal drugs. Not to mention tobacco.

  114. 114
    GrandJury says:

    @mike in dc: If that is exit polling I wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Those are notoriously unreliable.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: that’s what I heard

  116. 116
    chopper says:

    @Mary G:

    Like Conster, prohibition is a racist tool.

    daaaaang, what did conster ever do to you?

  117. 117
    mike in dc says:


    My impression is that it’s based upon a broader survey. Maybe they called people as well?

  118. 118
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    Hey, guys. Wonder joints…. -Booger

  119. 119
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Don’t blame me, Chris Hayes retweeted this

    katie rosman @ katierosman
    OH at a shiva tonight: “Well at least it’s one less vote for Trump.” “Too soon,” said the departed’s son.

  120. 120
    GrandJury says:

    @JMG: PPP polling gets things wrong too. Can’t remember which election but they were waaay off. I think it was one of the midterms. They were predicting it wasn’t going to be so bad for Dems and it was. Haven’t been following them lately. I’m of the opinion that they are sort of like the Rasmussen of the left unless they have changed since last election.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mnemosyne: When I was at the UW in Seattle, beer and wine were sold at the markets. The state liquor stores sold the hard stuff. It was a pain in the ass, even though there was a state liquor store in a mall right down the hill from my dorm.

  123. 123
    Scamp Dog says:

    @bookdragon01: I haven’t come across any public weed smoking yet here in Colorado. Not that I’ve done any thorough investigation of a good cross section of public environments, to be sure, but I haven’t even seen much sign of other people complaining about it. As long as they enforce the same limits as cigarettes,you should have no problem.

  124. 124
    redshirt says:


    – Albert Einstein

  125. 125
    Keith P. says:

    @chopper: So with the legal weed, what’s the price scale? I was having this conversation the other day with a friend who deals (he’s wondering how his prices will have to change), and he’d heard that the weed coming out of CO, etc is just “OK”. But then my old college roommate went to CO and said you can pay anywhere from $6-$60/gram (that last # is insane…black market weed is only ~$20/g). I personally want to see/experience $60/gram weed to see how amazing it is/isn’t.

  126. 126
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @GrandJury: Hey shomi/derf, you are an asshole. You don’t read the fucking blog. FP or comments. I was going to… Aw, just fuck fucking off.

  127. 127
    redshirt says:

    @Keith P.: Black market is gonna dry up. Sure, there will still be some dudes until the legal market becomes entrenched and fully Federally legal. But once that happens, why would black market weed dealers exist?

  128. 128
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Keith P.: Ask the fucking Dutch.

  129. 129
    NoraLenderbee says:

    If weed is legalized here, I want to try it again to see if it still makes me laugh as much as in high school.

  130. 130
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    one of Comey’s big problems, from what I understand, is his New York FBI office is clamoring for an investigation of the Clinton Foundation, based on hard evidence and careful scrutiny. Or not.

    the F.B.I. grappled with whether to issue subpoenas in the Clinton Foundation case, which, like the Manafort matter, was in its preliminary stages. The investigation, based in New York, had not developed much evidence and was based mostly on information that had surfaced in news stories and the book “Clinton Cash,” according to several law enforcement officials briefed on the case.

  131. 131
    laura says:

    @Origuy: a coworker is using a CBD cream for pain relief after a hip replacement replacement. No THC, so no high, but decent enough to replace oxy, and balance w/Norco.
    A fair number of friends living with cancer are using mm and vaping and report, no heat-related or code violation issues present with smoking and better dosage controlling than from edibles.
    DUI remains a heavily enforced and revenue generating thing here in CA, and it may rise with the passage of prop 64, but there’s been semi-legal usage for years, but no significant correlation in accidents as with alcohol. Here in Sacramento, there where at least 5 deadly wrong way freeway head on accidents within a year -and the gruesome skidmark/crash/fire damage on the road beds a daily reminder. All alcohol related with multiple fatalities. None involved cannabis.
    I voted yes and know it will have some downsides, but the selective prosecution, ruination of public lands by cartels, and revenue generation mitigates somewhat, and hopefully will allow some real investigation into the medical efficacy that can be peer reviewed for use that may provide benefits that can only be dreamed of or hoped for.

  132. 132
    hovercraft says:

    @mike in dc:
    The pollster/ surveyor said that since they voter files are public, and they know who has voted they call only people who have actually voted, and they reconstruct a representative sample. I missed the size of the sample, but they will be releasing the actual poll tomorrow for the number crunchers to dig into.

  133. 133
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @NoraLenderbee: I am perfectly happy with weed being legal. I would vote for it if it came up in my state. When/if it is legalized, I am unlikely to partake. It fucks with my lungs.

  134. 134

    I had to cut a dear, dear friend out of my life this afternoon over the last month’s worth of behavior turned abusive. I’m absolutely numb. I feel awful.

    (Edit: posting upstairs)

  135. 135
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    This is insane, people leaving last wills and testaments saying don’t vote for the devil, now people celebrating the inability of the recently departed to vote.

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: @Baud: @bystander: @JMG: @GrandJury: Okay, I just saw the segment. So this isn’t just a likely voter poll. It had two parts. The first is a survey of likely voters and the second of those who have already voted, both by mail/absentee ballot and in early voting on site (where available in Florida). So the second part is essentially an exit poll. Among the questions being asked was one on willingness to vote for Clinton for likely voters and if one had voted for Clinton of those who had already voted. They also ask for partisan identifier. The whole poll will be out tomorrow and then we’ll be able to get into the actual questions and methodology and look at the cross tabs and internals and see how much that makes sense. The College of William and Mary is part of the group that did the survey, so its not some fly by night group. And I highly doubt O’Donnell would have reported this out the way that he did had MSNBC’s own polling people, including Kornacki and his and Maddow’s producer who is a polling guy, had a good long look at it and decided this wasn’t going to make them look stupid tomorrow.

  137. 137
    Keith P. says:

    @redshirt: Well, if a store charges $60/gram, there’s a reason to buy black market right there…now for moonshine, I don’t get it, as I can go to the liquor store and buy a jar for $15. But for $60 for a day of being high/stoned is a cocaine price. But even ignoring all that, I’m just curious how good $60/g weed is, and if that’s as expensive as it gets.

  138. 138
    Anonymous patient says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    You are so right about marijuana prohibition being used as an obvious method of control of those others, the immigrants and black folks, jazz singers and bluesmen. And all this hysteria about pain-killers and addiction.

    What are people with serious chronic agony supposed to do for relief? My doctor knows me, I’ve been his patient for 40 years, and gradually I have had more and more serious issues that slow me down, and hurt. When your surgical pain from a joint replacement is as nothing compared to the pain it relieves, you were hurting bad.

    The folks who work at the joint replacement ward in the local hospital know us by name and problems. And one of the biggest problems facing us is that there are 200-odd joints in the body. How many of them can you stand to replace surgically?? How bad will my feet hurt when those joints go bad? I really, really don’t want more joint surgery, it takes the better part of a year out of a life that looks so short now, not stretching out into the future like it did 50 years ago.

    I want to travel, without worrying that I suddenly won’t be able to bend or walk or put my coat on, pick your joint, you lose some ability when a joint fails, and it hurts so bad.

    You know all those pictures of your ancestors, where they are motionless and grim looking? Those are pictures of people with failed joints, no treatment, and no modern pain relief. If you are motionless it doesn’t hurt so bad. Yet, because somebody’s precious can’t handle an addictive substance, I’m supposed to just suffer from chronic pain? I don’t think so.

    But they keep changing the rules around the way you receive permission to use pain killers. I’m very tired of that. If you never know the rules are changing, how easy is it to be arrested for having something in your possession you thought you had every right and need to have?

    Grrrrr. I want this election to be so over!!!

  139. 139
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “Clinton Cash,”

    Yes a neutral unimpeachable source. Like all of the Judicial Watch based probes have worked out so well for congress.

  140. 140
    Taylor says:

    @Mnemosyne: There was also an element of critics piling on, that I resented. I thought it was a fun movie, and I thought Chabon had some interesting ideas in the script. Zodanga as an environmental warning was dumb though.

    The marketing was atrocious. They dropped Mars from the title because Mars Needs Moms or something had bombed? Maybe that bombed because it was a shitty film.

  141. 141
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @hovercraft: reminds me of the story that at one point, the Gowdy commission aides were trying to get testimony about Benghazi from someone who said something on Facebook, and a guy who called into talk radio in Nebraska one time.

  142. 142
    Soylent Green says:

    The big pot growers on national forests in California do terrible damage to the environment. They use enormous quantities of herbicides, pesticides, and rodenticides without regard for limits on their safe application or on their use in combination. Predators such as weasels, fishers, and raptors then eat the dead or sickened rodents and become contaminated by the poison. Growers also divert streams to water their crops, depriving many native plants of water.

    And if you are a backcountry hiker who stumbles upon a site run by a cartel, you do so at serious risk to your safety.

  143. 143
    StringOnAStick says:

    We voted to legalize here in CO with no intention of ever using it again, but we’ve since grow fond of liquid edibles, and I use CBD concoction for my crappy knees. We have zero interest iin smoking weed or anything else really. To each their own, and prohibition never works plus creates laws that are selectively enforced.

  144. 144
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Keith P.: Nobody’s paying $60/gram for legal weed in Washington. Well, maybe some silly people in Seattle, I dunno. But standard price for good stuff if you want only a gram is $14. And you can get a half ounce for $65, if you find a strain you like in bulk. It’s really not much more than black-market prices — in some cases, less — and if you pay attention to what you’re buying, the quality is better.

  145. 145
    Glidwrith says:

    @hovercraft: Never smoked anything or did any drug. Hate coffee. Tiny sip of Amaretto when asthma acts up but hate, hate, hate the taste of wine and beer. Voting for legalization because I am friggin tired of the racism used to destroy peoples’ lives but I don’t want any of that shit frying my brain.

    No, I am not a nun.

  146. 146
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The real problem here is that despite all the reporting none of it is in agreement. Simply put: we don’t actually have any idea what’s going on within the FBI except that something is going on within the FBI. WaPo is reporting, based on sources, that all these investigations are ongoing. NY Times, based on their sources, is reporting that they’ve been closed for lack of evidence of wrongdoing. Kurth Eichenwald’s sources are just telling him that everyone at the FBI is pissed at Comey. You’ll notice no one’s sources within the Bureau are saying anything about David Corn’s reporting. This tells me that his reporting has some legs because what he’s reported is a major counterintelligence issue and because he’s reporting that significant portions of that occurred in Russia, the FBI may not have the lead. And the folks that would (do) have the lead are not going to say anything to anyone. As frustrating as it all is all we really know is that there’s one or more messes within the FBI, but we really don’t know what it or they are.

    My take on this, based on what I know of the FBI, is: I think what we’re likely seeing is one or two agents/investigators that can’t let it go. They’ve locked into the fallacy where they’ve turned their supposed explanation of what happened into their hypothesis and are working backwards rather than forwards. And they’re selectively leaking because they can’t get out of the wilderness of mirrors. And that’s where the pressure on Comey is coming from. This is separate from the twitter account behaving strangely. And its also separate from the counterintel investigations into Trump and Russia.

    The vast, vast, vast majority of these folks at the FBI, even if they identify with a partisan political viewpoint, are also professionals. And they take their oaths very, very, very seriously. And I think that’s what’s being reflected in what Eichenwald’s sources are telling him – that every one of them is simply disgusted at what has been going on over the past several days as its destroying their institution and its reputation.

  147. 147
    redshirt says:

    @Smiling Mortician: You can buy an ounce of kind bud for $120?

  148. 148
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Smiling Mortician:

    if you pay attention to what you’re buying, the quality is better

    It’s a good thing I seem to be missing whatever it is that makes people want to get high, because all this sounds like far more trouble than it’s worth. I’m just too damned old to do the hard work of acquiring a new vice.

    (That’s actually one of the reasons I volunteered for my town’s legal-weed-is-coming planning team: I’m deaf to the siren’s call, so I have no personal interest other than wanting a good-government approach.)

  149. 149
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @redshirt: Tax avoidance, same with cigs now.

  150. 150
    Mike J says:

    @Keith P.: The highest priced weed at my local shop is $18/g. There’s probably more variety available at $7/g than at $18.

  151. 151
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @Brachiator: My mother’s a pretty straight laced conservative and she LOVES Keanu Reeves. I think she’s seen the Matrix about 100 times (according to my poor father). Perfectly normal upper middle class conservative elderly white woman with a stoner’s taste in movies and food. Go figure.

  152. 152
    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @mike in dc: And the real GOTV labor is done by volunteers like you and me! So everyone please MAKE some fucking time this last week and go to and see what you can do.

    I spent my evening making sure people turned in their absentee ballots in Florida. I even helped a guy figure out how to go get one in person tomorrow. This shit matters. If we win Florida we really drive a stake through the heart of Trump’s chances. And of course other states matter too. PLEASE.

  153. 153
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: My take on this, based on what I know of the FBI, is: I think what we’re likely seeing is one or two agents/investigators that can’t let it go.

    At first that low estimate surprised me, but if those one or two are in touch with one or two Chaffetz committee staffers, or members, and if I thought we could know the absolute truth, I’d bet a good chunk of money that’s the case, that could have caused all this and more.

  154. 154
    burnspbesq says:


    And they do unspekably ugly things to sensitive habitat in the process. I want dope growing off the north coast and into real agricultural land where it can be regulated. Only reason I voted for 64.

  155. 155
    burnspbesq says:


    Guaranteeing it profits MegaCorp, Inc, and only MegaCorp, Inc.,

    Unknown and unknowable.

  156. 156
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I find it hard to believe that there’s a significant number of special agents and senior analysts, including the Supervisory Special Agents in Charge, the Assistant Supervisory Agents in Charge, and the Supervisory Analysts who are all senior civil servants (GS 14s and 15s), would be suddenly so unprofessional. One of the hallmarks of our approach is that it doesn’t matter who is President, as long as the orders are lawful, you do your job. A widespread internal coup against leadership decisions just strikes me as very uncharacteristic.

    As an aside, Malcolm Nance confirmed on O’Donnell’s show tonight (I DVRed it to watch the Series) that in his professional opinion Trump has, indeed, been coopted by Russia and that occurred within the past five years or so. So he basically confirmed Corn’s reporting from last night. I though Zach Beachamp from VOX, who looks like he’s 22 and had just said that there was no way that was the case, was going to turn green. To Beachamp’s credit he did not even try to argue with Chief Nance over this.

  157. 157
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Smiling Mortician: Here in eastern Washington, I bought seven grams of Acapulco Gold for $70 at the closest pot store to my home – a store called Altitude, 37 miles away. There are no pot stores in the Tri-Cities. The cities passed ordinances prohibiting them on the grounds that “we here in eastern Washington voted against the new law, so we can ban its sale in our cities.” I guess the law allows them to do that.

    The Gold was okay, but the best I’ve had so far has been a very nice Indica called Obama Kush. Great for anxiety relief and sleeping. I’m gonna need it in order to crash for the next seven nights.

  158. 158
    redshirt says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut: The Matrix is a pretty awesome movie. I might even say a Perfect movie.

  159. 159
    Brachiator says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut:

    Perfectly normal upper middle class conservative elderly white woman with a stoner’s taste in movies and food. Go figure.

    As Bill and Ted might say, Excellent!

  160. 160
    Darkrose says:

    @Origuy: Based on the tiny sample size of my dispensary, a lot of people vape or smoke. The problem with edibles for medical use is that they can take a couple of hours to kick in. If you have a migraine, for example you need something fast.

  161. 161
    Darkrose says:

    @Death Panel Truck: Obama Kush? Really? I’ve got to see if my dispensary has that.

  162. 162
    CZanne says:

    @bookdragon01: on the asthma/allergy issue: I am severely allergic to pot — hemp fabric or hemp-oil lotions makes me break out in hives, I get serious reactions to second-hand smoke, and I’m pretty sure a lung-full or an edible would put me in anaphylaxis. (It did the one time I tried, as a teenager. I have never tried again. I think I was sensitized by my parents and/or aunt/uncle as a small child. My family is fairly crap.) Legalization + anti-smoking laws have saved my life and made it much easier to be out and about. I can now legally get epi-pens, and my insurance covers them. The neighbor two houses down had a grow on their back balcony. Before, I just would have never used my own balcony, because I am not okay with calling the cops over six, personal use plants. Now, I can and did call my local code enforcement, and asked them to ask my neighbors to comply with the law (which here, is that a grow must be fully contained, which the balcony isn’t.) Cops were great about it, the grow went inside and it didn’t turn into an HOA soap opera. But the best part is that other forms of consumption became many hundreds of times more common than blazing up. People like consumables and vape/atomizer a lot better than smoking in general. Joints, blunts, pipes and bongs are all messy, and smoking is stinky; it was only the common method because it was the legally safest delivery method for the dealer and the distributors. Legalization meant the market shifted really hard and fast away from the old methods that were cheap and put most of the possession risk on the purchaser instead of the vendor. Legalization has shifted that risk calculus back onto the vendor. Which makes me safer, because consumable packaging is extremely clear, the vape/atomizer method puts significantly less of whatever I react to into the air, and the tar/resin/gunk doesn’t cling to their clothes and bodies to turn into allergen fleas that piss off my immune system.

    And the other best part: I work on a university campus with a lot of student housing in close proximity. When the shit was illegal, it was transgressive and cool because it was a way of sticking it to The Man. Now it’s legal. It’s part of The Man. In two years, it’s becoming like binge drinking — sure, people do it, but it’s stupid and immature and a boring waste of time and money. Taking the transgressive edge away has done more than decades of DARE.

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    redshirt says:

    In the lamh36‘s Mom film series, I’d love to see them watch the original Terminator (unless they’ve seen that movie recently, and if that’s the case, then Total Recall) and report back.

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    Steeplejack (tablet) says:


    State liquor stores—at least in the states I’m familiar with—monopolize hard liquor, not beer and wine. Here in Virginia I can get beer and wine at Target or the grocery, but for my hogshead of Mount Gay it’s off to the ABC store.

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    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Darkrose: Hope you find some. I highly recommend it. Mine is from a grower called Peak Supply. The THC is 16.20 percent. I paid $31 for four grams, but I got it on a Thursday, when they knock $10 off your total purchase.

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    redshirt says:

    I only bought edibles in CO since I didn’t want to set off any smoke alarms or have to buy a pipe too.

    The DNC was Awesome!

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    Darkrose says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Oakland, CA is trying to get a program in place that would allow people in certain neighborhoods and people who’ve been convicted of minor pot-related offenses to get licenses for marijuana-related businesses.

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    SFBayAreaGal says:

    @Brachiator: That’s how I voted.

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    Full Metal Wingnut says:

    @redshirt: I don’t hate it but she watches it like every week.

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    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Death Panel Truck: I love Obama Kush! $14/gram, $80 a half-ounce when they have it in bulk.

  172. 172
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @redshirt: Yeah. It won’t be as completely budarrific as by-the-gram (because it’s bulk), but yes. You can get an ounce of nice weed for somewhere between $160 and $200 at pretty much any local shop in my small town.

  173. 173
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Brachiator: @SFBayAreaGal: Ditto. Keeping my fingers crossed that our fellow Californians will finally get rid of the odious savagery of the death penalty. I saved voting for Hillary for last, as dessert after my hours-long slog through the rest of our ridiculously long SF ballot. And I called my 13-year-old son into the room to watch me do it – I was in my kitchen, not a voting booth, so I assume it was legal to show him and don’t give a damn if it wasn’t. My son thought it was pretty cool, or at least was nice enough to pretend he did. And I may have gotten a little misty-eyed in the moment that I filled in the ballot to elect a woman as president. There have been times in my 55 years when I thought this day would never come.

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    Smiling Mortician says:

    @Death Panel Truck: Keeps me mostly sane. I’m out on the coast, by the way. We have lots of variety, excellent prices. I welcome our new pot overlords. I have several good friends in the tri-cities. Maybe you’re one of them. Heh.

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    redshirt says:

    @Smiling Mortician: That’s pretty cheap. Everyone wins, I assume.

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    LeftMass says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: I did my SF ballot last week. I asked my 15 year old daughter to fill in the line for Hill.

    I think it meant more to me, though. Teenagers…

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    EBT says:

    Pretty much all the medical users online vaporize. Either a flower vape (several have bought based on my recommendation) or a pen vape with oils. Either way keep it under the combustion point and all the carbon that would go to screwing up lungs and drapes stays plant material instead. Most prefer it to edibles because outside of say Kiva or Korova (which tend to be the pricy brands) tend to be of dubious quality. It’s real easy to make a batch of edibles with hot spots of cannabinoids and swaths of food with fairly little. And even the cheap edibles can’t really compete price wise with 5 dollar budget grams.

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    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Smiling Mortician: It’s like Rick Steves said as he was campaigning for legal weed in Oregon: something to the effect of “If I want to sit and stare at my fireplace for four hours, it’s nobody’s business but my own.”

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    Matt McIrvin says:

    I voted yes on 4, but admit that I probably didn’t study opinions on the details of the proposal sufficiently to be 100% sure that was a good idea. I know that some legalization regimes are better than others and the devil can be in the details. Still, I do feel that the current situation is absurd and some sort of legalization would be better.

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    Mnemosyne says:

    @Full Metal Wingnut:

    You realize that your mom loves Keanu Reeves because she thinks he’s hot and would like to fuck him, right? I mean, that’s why my mom likes the movies she likes.

  182. 182
    redshirt says:

    In Maine Vote Yes on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

  183. 183
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @CZanne: That is great, and it’s something I hadn’t thought of at all.

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    Darkrose says:

    @EBT: Kiva is fucking amazing. It’s not just that it’s good weed; the chocolate is wonderful. If they had a line of chocolate without the weed, I’d totally buy it.

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    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I have so many other vices…I have to focus.

    Like, say, participatory activities involving 3 dwarves, a burro, and a 55-gallon drum of boysenberry syrup? Axing for a fiend… :p

  186. 186
    bluefoot says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Exactly this. I am somewhat pro-legalization, but the way we’re going about it is bullshit.

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