The following is from a Tweetstorm I composed yesterday in the hours before that shitshow of a “debate.” There are probably some spelling and grammar errors, because for the most part, I just copied and pasted from my Twitter account, @soonergrunt.
Someone asked me recently why I’m a dick to Conservatives who engage me on Twitter. I’m not to everyone. @RadioFreeTom is a notable example. There are others. But I’ll tell you the answer now. I came to political conscience in the age of Ronald Reagan. I liked him as a person, but I didn’t agree with him on much. But I respected him. He was my President, for one thing, but also my parents taught me that the other side were decent people who wanted what they saw as best for the country. They just happened to usually be wrong. And sometimes they were right. That kind of consideration is something I’ve rarely received in return. Rare enough that I remember a lot of those respectful interactions. They stick out due to their rarity.
What I’ve heard most of my adult life is that as a Democrat and a Liberal in particular, that I didn’t love my country. Liberals in the Army get used to this kind of thing very, very quickly. We learn to keep our mouths shut. The same NCOs and officers who are telling you that ppl like you should be killed for treason are the same people writing your NCOER. They are the same people who are supposed to risk their lives for you. Even after serving as a combat infantryman, some of the guys I served with, and a LOT of civilians still would say things like that. This kind of thing was pushed a little bit by Reagan, but a LOT by Newt Gingrich. And it’s burned into the modern Republican Party’s DNA. FOX News monetized this. Tune in, anytime day or night, and you’ll see what I’m talking about within a few minutes. Millions watch daily. The typical Conservative is so incredibly vicious because s/he has been raised on a steady diet of vitriol and hate for 2 decades now.
It’s to the point where Conservatives who aren’t calling for a Liberal to be killed, who aren’t calling for a Liberal’s daughter to be raped who aren’t calling for a Liberal to lose his employment are the atypical ones. You spend 30 years hearing this kind of thing, and maybe you aren’t quite so open minded and accepting anymore. It’s hard to take people at face value, because you’re just waiting for the other shoe.
There’s probably more than just the 4 or 5 Cons that I follow that are worth following. There’s a lot of people on Twitter after all. But they’re very hard to find in this bitterest of election years.
@SopanDeb had a couple of tweets yesterday about talking to Establishment Republicans who were, in his words, shocked at all of the hatred directed at Hillary Clinton from the right. That they considered her just another cynical politician. I RT’ed that with a hearty ‘fuck you’ or some such attached to it. Today’s ‘establishment Rs’ came up on that attitude and behavior. They are the principle actors and benefactors. Well, right now we’re watching the Republican Party self-destruct. Where it is because the party and intellectual leaders on the right have, for decades, sold them on the idea that they are the only true patriots and that anyone who opposes them is aligned with the enemies. And now, as was inevitable, they’ve turned on the Conservatives who aren’t complete assholes. Well, I’m not really sorry for them. They are reaping what they have sewn.
When I was a kid, there were Conservative Democrats & Liberal Republicans, and most people held views that occasionally crossed ideological lines. I tend to believe in a much stronger military and more robust foreign policy than many of my liberal brethren. It is essential to the health of the Liberal movement and the Democratic Party, and most especially to the political health of the Nation for there to be a functioning, engaged Conservative movement and a center right party. I don’t know if the Republican Party will survive or if something else will rise in its place, but it’s going to take a while. It took decades to get here, and it won’t be changed one way or the other overnight. I take some small consolation that many Conservatives are now experiencing what people like me have for decades. But schadenfreude isn’t something I should be proud of.
It’s going to be interesting to watch, but I really am worried for the near-term future of the country. I do believe that in the end, things will be OK. I believe that most people are essentially good and decent in their hearts and that my kids will see a better country and a better world. If you’ve made it this far, you sure are a glutton for punishment, but I thank you for reading.
eldorado
i’m not sure if the sooner part of your nick is still relevant, but it’s sure hard putting up with all this here
Punchy
I find it amusing that now it’s quite clear Trump is toast, right-leaning friends want everyone to stop posting political stuff on FB. Im sure they’d be just as accomodating if the roles were reversed, amiryt?
chromeagnomen
well said. i’d send this to my two asshole right wing brothers, but since it comes from a liberal, it has no cred. this is one thing of which they can truly say, ‘i built this.’
Omnes Omnibus
I talked politics with maybe 5 or 6 people when I was in the army. They were all my same rank and were people I trusted not to blab that I was a liberal. One of those guys was also a liberal. That was late ’80s to early ’90s.
Frank Wilhoit
You’re wrong about Reagan’s people. I was there too. They wanted me dead and while I lived, they wanted me hurt. They still do: they are Trump’s people. (Bush’s people were Nixon’s people: you will understand the difference.)
hovercraft
It’s like Guy Fawkes Day’s come early, and instead of blowing up parliament they’re blowing up the GOP.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d like to think that at least back then the officer corps wasn’t so heavily tilted towards southern colleges as it is now. Fewer fundiegelical chaplains as well.
Omnes Omnibus
@hovercraft: They seem to be being more successful than Guido was.
Amanda in the South Bay
@RadioFreeTom is actually one of those thinking man’s conservatives I can’t stand. Something about him (much more overt religiosity?) just turns me off.
patroclus
After last night’s comments by Trump on jailing his political opponent, they are now the “Banana Republicans.”
Fair Economist
The primary problem we have is that we have a very large group in this country – between 30 and 40%, based on Trump’s polls – that are either racists, religious bigots, or mens’ “rights” advocate, or some combination of that. They have to be fed the demonization propaganda because their own positions are not morally defensible and they have to demonize the “other” to maintain their self-regard. For almost 40 years, the rightwingers have successfully manipulated them into supporting into a environmentally unfriendly, anti-labor, tax-cutting agenda they wouldn’t naturally favor. Low wages and mountaintop removal are not things rural people in West Virginia naturally support, regardless of their views on race relations.
Well, Trump has snatched their loyalties away from the right wing and now they want all the red meat they have been promised for those 40 years. It’s a huge group, easily large enough to control one of the two parties, but not large enough to win elections by itself. So I expect years, possibly decades, of elections like this where the Republican party is absolutely totally nuts but has a very hard time winning. It is frightening because a major event could possibly throw an election to them even thought the demographics are distinctly against them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amanda in the South Bay: This particular groups was Princeton (the other Dem.), Lafayette, Ball State, West Point, and me.
schrodinger's cat
Its not just the Republicans that are the problem though. Its the media, the respectable MSM including NYT and PBS. They have normalized the Republican party’s hatred of minorities and contempt for democratic institutions. They are the enablers.
NYT is still at it, even though Trumpster’s campaign is imploding.
hovercraft
@Omnes Omnibus:
There are many more of them, than Guy’s merry band of Catholics.
Omnes Omnibus
@hovercraft: And they can operate in the open.
James E Powell
@Punchy:
Early this morning my timeline was filled with RWers doing a “Trump owned her!” sack dance. Then I guess they watched something other than FOX, saw the Paul Ryan “every man for himself” announcement, read a few polls, then disappeared.
Renie
I’m reading an article in WashPo about how Trump has not just ruined the GOP but his own brand. I’m reading and agreeing with this and a bit happy about it too. I get to the end and see it is written by Jennifer Rubin!!!! The RWNJ are all destroying each other. What will arise after this? I don’t know but its going to take a long time for a civilized party to form.
rikyrah
uh huh
uh huh
Pro-Kirk super PAC shows how mega-donors avoid spending caps
WASHINGTON – A super PAC created specifically to bolster Sen. Mark Kirk’s GOP re-election bid is a stark example of how mega-donors legally skirt federal caps on individual contributions.
Fueled by jumbo donations, the Independent Voice for Illinois super PAC has spent more than $1 million in negative television ads attacking Kirk’s Democratic opponent, Rep. Tammy Duckworth.
Independent Expenditure committees, also known as super PACs, are allowed to legally advocate for the election or defeat of a candidate as long as there is no cooperation or consultation with the campaign itself.
Individuals giving to House, Senate and presidential campaigns are capped at $5,400 per cycle — $2,700 for the primary, $2,700 for the general election contest. Super PACs can take in unlimited amounts of cash.
To get around these donation caps, Kirk allies, planning ahead, founded the Independent Voice for Illinois, filing a statement of organization with the Federal Election Commission on Feb. 12, 2015.
As of June 30, the latest FEC report, the largest donors to Independent Voice are two of the biggest Republican donors in the nation.
Chicago’s Ken Griffin, the founder of the Citadel financial services firm, pumped $350,000 into Independent Voice.
Paul Singer, the New York hedge fund mogul who in the last week made the Washington Post’s list of the 10 mega-donors of the 2016 cycle, sent $250,000 to the fund.
The GOP wing of the Cubs-owning Ricketts family sent $50,000 through one of their super PACs, too.
sukabi
You’re not wrong sooner, the last 16 years have been “interesting” to dsay the least. Rs really started losing the plot during the Clinton years when they couldn’t remove him from office.
Was without TV for a couple of years late 1998- late 1999…. then got cable..you don’t realize the amount of absolute HATE that is directed at liberals, progressives, or any democrat until you’ve been disconnected from it for a while. But I’m pretty sure FOX woth Hannity and O’Reilly cranked it up past 11 as soon as Ws selection was in the bag…
Walker
In my experience, Regan Republicans did not respect you. They patronized you because they considered you harmless. Now the see they no longer have the power, so the politeness has fallen away.
Wapiti
@Amanda in the South Bay: The drawdown in the 90s eliminated ROTC at a lot of the northern schools in favor of southern schools where ROTC was more popular, both from a standpoint of larger numbers of cadets, and less likely to suffer protests during our foreign wars. I think it made the officer corps less representative of the nation (and maybe that was deliberate).
gf120581
@Renie: Rubin’s been an outspoken Never Trumper since the beginning. Giver her massive crush on Mitt Romney, it’s no surprise.
But yes, Trump’s brand is ruined. It’s why he’s going so overboard on the Clinton bashing even though every GOP strategist with half a brain has told him it only damages him further. He’s working on his new brand; as lord and master of the deplorables. So many rubes to fleece.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
BWHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
Stone deleted it but he was screaming at ¿Jeb? on Saturday calling him a coke-head and serial adulterer.
HA!
Their tears of unfathomable sadness taste so good.
Eric U.
up until Bush the lesser’s misadministration, I always felt confident that the republicans wanted what was best for the country. GWBush’s administration wasn’t worried about the country. The most charitable thing I can say is they thought that it didn’t matter what they did to enrich themselves and get power. But they didn’t care what was best for the country.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Wapiti: BRAC in general hit a lot of northern and coastal states hard. And I think the negative effects will be felt for a long time.
Suffragete City elftx
Rick Wilson is another conservative I follow. These are two really smart people who effectively slice and dice what their party has become. Many times with a wicked sense of humor.
Unlike the animus I feel towards Newt, I do have respect for them.
But I have a hard time understanding Tom’s abhorrence of Hillary and Rick’s total infatuation with Ryan’s policies.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes this, I see RWNJs quoting NYT articles quite a bit. The NYT is a failed institution.
Dwight Sponagel
Republicans are evil. All of them, including my relatives who I love dearly. They can be very nice and can do good things. But they are agents of evil, full stop.
Daulnay
@rikyrah:
Best thing we can do is tax them. Any Super PAC has to pay 50% of its contributions in taxes. Or even better, sliding scale taxation, so that if you’re a wealthy opinion-buyer you pay an especially high rate.
catclub
@Fair Economist:
I wish I could find and bookmark the interview I read ( I think with a conservative professor?) that discussed just this issue. Anybody have any ideas where I saw it?
The main point was a large enough group that they THOUGHT they were a majority and there was therefore no need to compromise or find allies.
wuzzat
Excellent post. I have just one nitpick:
It’s principal. The GOP abandoned their principles long ago.
rikyrah
Sopan DebVerified account
@SopanDeb
The Daily News is reporting that the Apollo Theater in Harlem is refusing to host a Trump event there:
Mike J
@Walker:
Reagan Republicans spoke openly about wanting to see gay people die. They said it from the White House briefing room. Anyone who thinks they haven’t been this bad since at least Buckley is delusional.
rikyrah
Katy TurVerified account
@KatyTurNBC
A man aggressively yells at CNN reporter telling her she needs more makeup over and over. He’s 4 feet from her as his wife laughs along.
psycholinguist
CNN is pretty good right now…. wow. I think she’s about to come across Anderson Cooper and assault that poor Trump mouthpiece
TS
@schrodinger’s cat:
I had difficulty getting past your 1st point – “Trump stalked Hillary Clinton throughout the debate ”
I saw that within the first few minutes and waited in vain for the moderators to tell him to sit down when Hillary is speaking. I missed so much of what was said during the debate because I felt like I was needed as a witness to confirm the stalking (quite weird considering it was on video & seen by 60 million people).
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Fox is trying to kick Ryan out of the party.
That’s the thing, not only does Trump ignite the suicide vest and blow this election, but he also takes out Ryan. The Liburel media loves Ryan and desperately want to install him into the WH in 2020, but not now – the Trumptards will blame him for this defeat.
nastybrutishntall
I really see the Libertarians taking up the slack. They’ll get the educated young Republicans (the Bropublicans) plus the isolationist, pro-pot, anti-drone, privacy-obsessed, anti-pharma, anti-vaxxer elements of the Left. I think if Johnson does well, it’ll be a sea-change. I see almost no Trump signs down here in red rural Colorado, and no Hillary ones either, obviously, but Johnson signs are easy to spot.
nonynony
@gf120581: Also Rubin is Jewish and not completely stupid. It’s pretty obvious what Trump is doing and where the end game could lead.
But I don’t think Trump is consciously building a new brand here. I think he’s playing to his crowd and soaking up their adoration. He has no plan – he just says whatever gets a good response from his crowds. He may figure out a way to monetize that after the campaign, but it will be a side effect if he does.
Botsplainer
So when I look at Trump tweets, it appears that the moment Trump posts a tweet, the frog ? by the name Patriotic Pepe posts – he always seems to be in the spot no lower than fifth.
I don’t know Twitter enough – can an alert pop up when a tweeter is active? Is the guy obsessing on Trump? Or is it Trump himself or one of his kids?
Renie
@rikyrah: It gets worse a guy with his wife and two kids was wearing a shirt saying “Kill the c%nt”. WITH HIS KIDS. They are deplorable.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: it’s like they are taking some Star Trek clown drugs.
What a scene.
Of dispair.
BruceFromOhio
I am both blessed and cursed with the family I’ve married into … conservative Catholic bedrock splintered into crazy Gaia-bothering and resolute indifference to all things religious across multiple in-laws. At a recent family outing, I was quietly pleased to hear the born-agains rejecting the dumpster fire without concern, and comparing write-in candidates that supported their positions; the like-minded ones are all in for voting in the first female president. None of us discussed anything of substance related to the election or what it means. With respect to Adam’s regular reminders about the societal “gray zone”, it could be that we are losing or have lost our will and the means to discuss that which we disagree about, without resorting to personal attacks, threats, and open hostility.
It started with Reagan. It picked up plenty of momentum in the 90’s, with the Gingrich crew going after the Clintons, and anyone that supported them. I think that’s when the big grift really started: hate sells, and it sells big. There is no competition for hearts and minds for what has morphed into the Fox News empire, and now the gushers of cash legalized by Citizens United make hate the market mover. There are plenty of “me too” sources that will take your money, so it’s not going any where any time soon.
The election in November isn’t the end of this particularly ugly chapter, it’s just the beginning.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: Do you think there is any chance that Kirk will win reelection?
Adam L Silverman
I think I’ve mentioned this before: we are an aging, hell we are the oldest ongoing, revolutionary state and society. And unlike France we ignore the redos, peaceful, semi-peaceful, and not peaceful (2nd Founding in the late 1780s, the Great Rebellion now d/b/a as the Civil War, the New Deal), of our aging revolutionary state and society. Revolutionary states and societies quickly move towards small “c” conservatism in the attempt to lock in the revolutionary dynamic and ethos. As such states and societies age that small “c” conservatism can and does move in different ways. It will spawn liberalism and progressivism within the confines of the revolutionary dynamic and ethos. But it also spawns reactionary revanchism. What Soonergrunt is describing is this later dynamic. A dynamic that was fully extant by the 1790s as the debate was occurring between the Federalists and anti-Federalists over ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They were (and are) an extreme, insurrectionist offshoot of the anti-Federalist movement and philosophy. They were convinced that everyone who didn’t agree with them was treasonous and the enemy and that any government to big to be controlled at the local level was, at best, proto-tyrannical. They have always been with us, but there was a concerted effort to move these beliefs into the mainstream of conservatism, rather than keep it at the fringes, over the past 50 or 60 years.
Roger Moore
@wuzzat:
Also, too, it’s reaping what you’ve sown (i.e. planted) not what you’ve sewn (i.e. attached with needle and thread).
Capri
Something that might occur – the establishment Democrats become the center right party (not that big a step) and a new progressive party that forms around the Bernie Sanders/Occupy factions to occupy the left. That would actually balance the electorate again.
The current GOP becomes the official right wing/John Birch wackjob party.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
@rikyrah: The ironic part is the CNN reporter covering Trump (Sarah Murray), actually supports Trump.
Eating their own.
Coin operated
@nastybrutishntall: Johnson is as uninterested in foreign policy as Trump, and that’ll cost him every time. Seriously…how do you not name one damn foreign leader, whether you respect them or not?
Adam L Silverman
@Suffragete City elftx: Tom came up, postdoc, as a GOP staffer in the Senate during the Clinton Administration. He was marinating in the anti-Clinton stuff regardless of how well educated or smart he may be.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: What’s the over/under until FDNY has to do an arson investigation?
Beemer
As someone who spent most of the last decade working IT in a police department, I can attest to an attitude among conservatives who are paid to carry guns that has zero respect for liberal thought or thinkers. The lack of self-awareness was gobsmacking.
schrodinger's cat
@TS: The moderators have all been pretty terrible. Some one other than MSM bots needs to conduct the debates.
Chris
Well said, Sooner.
It’s something that frequently bothers me, too, but I don’t know how else I’m supposed to react to people who hate me and half of their fellow countrymen as much as they do. It’s not just that they don’t realize that their policies are hurting people. Again and again and again when talking to conservatives you find people who are pushing for X, Y and Z policies explicitly because they think it’ll fuck over people like me. The more polite ones phrase it as tough love and for your own good, but it’s no more convincing there than it is in any other abusive relationship. And many don’t even bother with that anymore. (Trump wasn’t the first, and he won’t be the last).
It disturbs me that for years now, I’ve been at a point where I consider conservatives to be enemies on practically the same level that I would fascists, communists, or jihadists. But it’s not a choice on my part, simply a recognition of the situation they’ve created.
eric
If only there was a state that had a seemingly similar outcome…..maybe a really big state. to the left. keep going. hit water? now stop. This is California writ large(r). The GOP is weaponized hate and cannot comprise a majority of the electorate for any meaningful office in California, and the presidency for the US.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Kellyanne freaks out over grabbing puzzy (photo)
SenyorDave
This is fantastic, its by Chrs Kluwe, an ex-NFL player, also very outspoken socially liberal.
Dear Donald Trump: I played in the NFL. Here’s what we really talk about in the locker room.
http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/10/10/13230346/donald-trump-locker-room-talk-chris-kluwe
Ruviana
@catclub: Was it this one?
Chris
@Amanda in the South Bay:
I’ve got a bunch of West Pointers in my family tree (though the last one was my grandfather), and I always heard that until not so long ago, it was a widespread opinion in the officer corps that non-partisanship was something to be cultivated. Gramps refused to register a party affiliation his entire life, and apparently it wasn’t uncommon for officers to take it so far that they refused to even vote.
Nowadays, not so much.
Major Major Major Major
@Botsplainer: creepy. But yeah, you can get alerts.
Chris
@Fair Economist:
Ah, but they’d tell you that this is all just demonization on your part, exactly like what we complain about when they call us traitors and unpatriots…
Adam L Silverman
@Chris: Every general officer/flag officer I know and/or have done worked for that have talked about it are either unregistered and do not vote or are registered independent/no party affiliation (regardless of how they might actually vote). Please note this is maybe a sample of 2 to 3 dozen tops and its while still on active duty, not retired.
Baud
Righteous, SG. Thanks for this.
Starfish
@Botsplainer: The phone app lets you receive phone notifications when a specific person posts according to WikiHow.
redshirt
This was why I was so hopeful when Obama got elected. He’s such a calm, centered man, completely without hate. I thought he could calm our politics with his civility.
Alas. It’s only gotten worse. And when Hillary has her two terms, who thinks it will get any better?
Every election will be worse than the previous one now, with ever crazier Repukes.
catclub
@Ruviana: Yes! Thanks!
Vhh
@Amanda in the South Bay: BRAC?
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Depends. I may cue something up before I head off to be part of the second line of defense at my Mom’s synagogue. I’ve been asked to bring a flashlight, apparently there is chatter of a ninja attack during Kol Nidre. Am considering whether I need to bring my swords…
PaulB
@Botsplainer: The linked article is a good explanation of how Trump’s responders are writing bots to get their tweets to show up in someone’s feed: http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/06/inside-donald-trumps-twitter-bot-fan-club.html
Chris
@Eric U.:
The beauty of laissez-faire right wing ideology is that it preaches that by pursuing your own greed, you will also bring about the best possible outcome for society. Therefore, you can enrich yourself and ignore everything around you with a clear conscience, since by doing so you’re actually benefiting everyone else, even if they’re just too stupid to see it.
jl
@eric: And interesting that with the CA jungle primaries (top two candidates of any party run against each other in the general), CA is in a better position to move to a replacement of current degraded mess of the GOP with a center-right party made up of remaining GOP moderates and conservative Dems, and a leftist social democratic party.
Maybe GOP is done as a party that can win national office. We can hope that it has damaged itself enough to make running Senate a stretch. But seems like it will be around a long while gumming up the House due to gerrymandering and regional polarization.
But long term, man, what a mess. After Trump goes, the base will want another Trump, we have to hope they get another one that is just as horrible a candidate. But what will be disastrous is that the serious daddy GOPers that the corporate media worship will have to go through the same BS again. What will they look like to the nation and their respective states if they end up being forced to enable Trumpism repeatedly over the next few election cycles. Any young establishment GOPer who will be able to counter and defeat the next Trump in future primaries?
chopper
@Fair Economist:
if only there was some expedient shorthand for these people. maybe filling some sort of “basket”.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: Why the fuck would they try to put an event there?
GregB
This schism is also making it apparent to most that almost all of the religious right are nothing but soulless political opportunists.
As Josh Barro called them, fucking frauds.
Tony Perkins, Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed and most of their fellow travelers.
Horrible humans.
Villago Delenda Est
In my last unit, one of my fellow Captains gave me his take on the ideological inclinations of the various officers in a brigade level HQ. It was overwhelmingly Republican, but not Rethuglican, because you won’t last long in the Army nowadays, or 30 years ago, for that matter, if you embrace racism or misogyny. He had me and another Captain in the S3 (operations) shop as the only Dems in the HQ. He of course was famous for being “to the right of Attila the Hun”. We were still good friends despite this.
Adam L Silverman
@Vhh: Base Realignment and Closing (BRAC).
WaterGirl
@SenyorDave: Wow, that was a thing of beauty! There were a few sentences in there that I would nominate for the Betty Cracker Amazing Sentences Award, which is high praise, indeed!
edit: That open letter is gonna leave a mark, if Trump actually reads it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Renie: I saw that. Unbelievable.
I take comfort in this…
…and my faith that the oppo file is not empty. There will be a depth charge by Thursday at noon
GregB
@Vhh:
Base Re-Aligment and Closing.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Same reason they wanted to do a guided with the press pool tour and hold a campaign event at a civil rights museum in North Carolina: so he can claim he’s gone to where the African Americans are. He and his folks don’t actually understand the optics they think they’re manipulating.
WereBear
It can’t be fixed. They are binary thinkers, using switches instead of dials.
However, they can be marginalized and humiliated. Let them petulantly withdraw from politics as they continue to suffer humiliating defeats.
Mai.naem.mobile
Trump is making me nauseous now. The stalking made me sick. It’s like watching a suspense movie. I hate watch/listen to RW media when there’s bigly schadenfreude. They really do live in an alternate reality. And they hate. Boy,do they hate.
Roger Moore
@SenyorDave:
The best line:
That is a sick, sick burn.
Chris
@Adam L Silverman:
The impression I have is that flag officers, the people at the top, have gotten better since a half-century ago (probably at least partly due to the shellacking of Vietnam and the soul-searching that followed) – there hasn’t been an equivalent to Douglas MacArthur or Curtis LeMay at the very top, at any rate. But that the regular officer corps beneath them had at the same time gone in the other direction and gotten much more overtly ideological.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Trump should calm down and realize that they are doing him a favor. A Trump rally in the Apollo or outside an African-American civil rights museum (or a Hispanic heritage museum, or Asian-American, or…. insert name here) would not be pretty at this point.
Soylent Green
@efgoldman: The trial resumes tomorrow but is not in session Wednesday. I will be attending on Thursday and should have another report for Adam the next day. It’s winding down now although the defense is still coming up with all manner of unhelpful witnesses. I wish I could say when closing arguments will commence.
sigaba
There’s this phrase that’s been popping into my head recently: “honest broker.” Conservative politicians aren’t really honest brokers for conservative interests, so liberals really have no one to negotiate with, so they end up having to pre-negotiate or negotiate with themselves.
Paul Ryan is sortof in the same position Yassir Arafat was in his last years. Nobody questions that he has a right to lead the conservatives, that he hasn’t won the elections or earned the post. But he has no freedom of movement because everybody is ready to knife him, the Israelis, Hamas, and everyone else. So he can’t be an honest broker. There’s no one on the right to negotiate with– they’re all legitimate but none of them have any political capital or real political power.
Baud
@SenyorDave: Holy cow. Thanks for that. Amazing.
Frankensteinbeck
@Fair Economist:
You’re very right in most ways, but missing one thing. The Deplorables needed very little manipulation. As long as they felt they couldn’t directly call for ‘everything for us, nothing for minorities’ and liberals championed equality, they liked screwing over themselves. It was the best way to screw over minorities. And they get a kick out of any policy that involves hurting people, period.
sukabi
@Coin operated: his follow up the next day or two was even more disturbing… something along the lines of “I won’t be able to start wars if I don’t know where a country is”
ET
God love the Internet and most of the nerds who inhabit it. The debates set to “Time of my Life” from Dirty Dancing.
(I hope the linking works cause working from a cell is annoying)
Mnemosyne
@Chris:
Even worse, the people who push for X, Y, and Z policies that they know will hurt themselves, but they don’t mind because it will hurt people they hate, too.
I have to admit, that’s the mentality I completely don’t understand. You’d think that self-preservation would kick in at some point, but, nope.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: At least they haven’t tried a 2d Amendment rally at the Lorraine Motel yet.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
At least it’s not clowns.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mai.naem.mobile: When Drumpf spoke of Hillary having “hate in her heart”, it was purest projection.
TS
@schrodinger’s cat: Hillary is a much stronger woman than myself. I doubted her safety on the stage with that person & was thankful that the SS were close by.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: that one is sooo backed up by studies too. It’s fucking ridiculous. “This feels unfair so I’m going to burn down both our houses” is apparently quite a natural impulse for many people.
Soylent Green
@redshirt: I wouldn’t bet on Hillary getting two terms. It’s very hard for one party to hold the WH for three terms, much less four, and this third one is a gift. And Democrats will skip the midterm as usual, handing back the Congress. If the goopers run the right generic white guy in 2020, they will probably take her out. I don’t see how her favorables rise enough to stop it.
That’s unless there is nothing left of their party but rubble. But every time we think the R’s are dead, they reincarnate. And they will still control the majority of statehouses.
Keith P.
There’s part of me that wishes Clinton had responded to the “You’d be in jail” comment from Trump with an “OK, so loser goes to jail? I’ll take that bet!”, but it really, truly is beneath the office of the presidency and is a Pandora’s box that should never have been opened.
Roger Moore
@sigaba:
More specifically, they can’t negotiate because the people they’re representing see any kind of compromise as betrayal. You can’t negotiate with people who reject the essential components of negotiation.
jl
@sukabi: I think that was libertarian snarky ideological code talking, very similar to wingnut conspiracy code talking. The libertarian faithful get the point, made in an inappropriately jokey way. Most everyone else thinks ‘W. T. F. this goof thinks he’s running for president?’
They are so lost in their little ideological and conspiracy bubble worlds, they forget that they have to make an effort to effectively communicate with the majority of people who have not been playing obsessive hobby horse games in there with them for years, and who therefore have learned the special language.
Major Major Major Major
@Soylent Green: there is essentially no precedent one way or the other for 4th terms. It’s happened too rarely to generalize.
Frankensteinbeck
@Soylent Green:
Two important factors: Hillary’s favorables will go way up. There is an amazingly clear historic trend that Hillary is the most respected woman in the world (seriously, #1) when she has power, and deeply unpopular when seeking it. As the incumbent, her popularity will be totally different. The other is that ‘generic white Republican’ is not coming back. Trump, including his downsides, is not an accident. He is what the base demanded.
Anne Laurie
@Amanda in the South Bay:
Nichol’s got a core of the pure uncut ‘Scotch-Irish’ vicious funny-bitter in his tweets. I’m from the same background, so I find it endearing (mostly), but I can understand why many other people don’t. Even people who agree with his religious conservatism give him the hairy eyeball when he flashes the broken bottle…
Anne Laurie
P.S. Soonergrunt, this is a very thoughtful post, and I’m glad you shared it with us.
Adam L Silverman
@Chris: Most of my uniformed friends/colleagues/peers (I am not uniformed service – have either been on contracts or term civil service appointments at the GS 15 level) tend to be conservative and Republican. They are, however, highly educated – both within Professional Military Education and civilian higher education – graduate and professional schools. So they may be conservative and Republicans, but they are also thoughtful. Now this sample is also skewed as most of the lieutenant colonels and colonels, or Navy equivalents, I’m used to working with are graduates of one of the war colleges, which, itself, makes a difference in how these men and women approach issues.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I get that, you get that, the Trump campaign folks no so much.
jl
@Anne Laurie: Thanks for reminding me to give appreciation for a Sonergrunt post. I was very happy to see a post from him. I hope we hear about his recent adventures out West soon.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: starting shit in the guise of “outreach”, but that’s just my guess. Loud mouthed, disrespectful, angry (interesting, the only suggested word was “white”) white people showing up in Harlem…what could possibly go wrong?
ET
@efgoldman: Har. Har.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t give them any ideas.
chopper
@gf120581:
the “deplorables” email list is gonna be worth a ton and Donnie Rotten is gonna milk it for all it’s worth.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: At the company grade level, it was easy to see who was getting out because career army was not for them, those who weren’t going to make it, those who had an absolute ceiling at O-5, and those who, in the right circs, had a shot at a star.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: I didn’t want to type out any of the bizarre, dangerous and chaotic possibilities that crossed my mind. But… OK.. a sketch. Imagine the Apollo mostly full of white yahoos come to cheer on Trump in one part of the hall, and in another some locals with perhaps interesting agendas who got inside one way or another, and protests outside. No. No. Very bad. No not good. Hope everyone who runs a similar venue refuses.
joel hanes
@Amanda in the South Bay:
When I was in the Field Artiillery during the last years of the draftee Army (1972 – 1975),
many of my officers were what would be called “liberals” now — particularly
the Signals and Survey and Intelligence lieutenants.
Disagree with Soonergrunt about the Reaganists — they may not have hated liberals with the same mindless ferocity that W-deadenders did, but they _despised_ us. Reagan set the GOP on the course that produced the debacle we’re seeing today, by embracing emotional narrative as a replacement for evidence and reason.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Not too worried about them either. These folks mean well – I only really deal with them when I’m around during the high holidays, but they have an overly developed sense of paranoia. Some of the stuff they ask me about, in terms of potential security concerns, make absolutely no sense. I’m all for being safe, not sorry, but they’re a bit over the top in some of their concerns.
Major Major Major Major
@Anne Laurie: yes! Thanks for the reminder. I tweeted at him!
Soylent Green
@Frankensteinbeck: True. But if Clinton delivers on the Sanders-approved progressive wish list, the center may be up for grabs.
Anne Laurie
@gf120581:
Also, not to put too fine a point on it: Even though Trump’s Orthodox Jewish son-in-law is running the campaign, it’s been obvious from the first primaries that Trump was very neo-Nazi-friendly. As Paul Krugman said, there’s tons of historical evidence for why Jews get so jumpy whenever an aspiring polticians starts talking about “those people” — the venom may not be explicitly anti-Semite at the moment, but it’s guaranteed to circle back to that trope.
(Same reason why women, even conservative women, tend to vote for Democrats when times are hard. Their husbands may blame it on the boss, but it’s the wives & kids they take it out on.)
Jeffro
@Daulnay:
Tax it as business income, or ban ’em outright, ban all contributions except those from individuals, and/or limit political contributions to a certain percentage of whatever a minimum-wage worker @ 40 hrs/week would make.
LurkerExtraordinaire
@Vhh: Base Realignment and Closure.
Soonergrunt, you have hit the “being liberal in the Army” nail on the head. Been there, done that. I know four field grades, and all of them conservative. One is a Ryan fan, and seems to be positioning himself for a future career in politics; one hates Trump and considered Johnson, but I think the Aleppo comment ended that (also says he doesn’t like Republicans), one I know is conservative but doesn’t talk politics too much, and the last one is a Pam Gellar fan. How can you be fair to a Muslim soldier if you are a fan of fucking Pam Gellar?
I also know a retired colonel, and he has made it clear he is disgusted with what has been going on. Unsure of his political leanings. None of these men are from the south, but all of them white. I’d be very interested to see how female/black/Latino/Asian/native/lgbt officers identify politically. Odds are, if your CO is a white man, he’s probably conservative, and you’d best keep your mouth shut. Same thing with your 1SG.
Major Major Major Major
Eichenwald tweets “I have written some really disturbing stories about Donald Trump. The one that is minutes away is even leaving my mouth agape.”
chopper
@rikyrah:
is it this guy?
Villago Delenda Est
@Keith P.: Yes, but if some court somewhere down the line does put Trump in jail for something that is utterly unrelated to his run for President, say tax evasion, or fraud, or failure to follow through on contractual obligations, or espionage for a foreign power…whatever…he will, like the vile sack of shit that is Don Blakenship of Massey Energy, claim he’s a “political prisoner”.
You can see it coming like the sun rising tomorrow morning in the East. These people are that craven, that dishonest, that scummy.
Jeffro
@Coin operated:
yeah as low as the bar already is, it’ll be hard to have a know-nothing beating quiet competence. So Dems, let’s keep that up, shall we?
GregB
@Major Major Major Major:
Bombs away!
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
Whoa. Seatbelt fastened.
Anne Laurie
@Suffragete City elftx:
Tom Nichol’s a hardcore anti-abortion voter, and Rick Wilson’s a pro-corporate professional activist. They’re each prioritizing their own separate #BeforeAllElse issue.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie:
It is for his supporters. You’ve seen Eichenwald’s Twitter.*
*Eichenwald is an Episcopalian with a Jewish dad.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep. I just had three of my former students, two Americans and one Kiwi, pop for their first stars. I am very proud of them. For one of the two Americans it appears to have been a surprise to her – she genuinely didn’t seem to know she was under consideration.
What always got me was the really quality 03s and 04s I’d work with who had simply had enough with the repeated deployments and decided they were going to get out at the next opportunity rather than try to rise as far as they could. Those are the really lost talents. I’ve had a couple of O5s/O6s that I’m friends with decide they’ve had enough over the past year or so. These are war college grads, sharp men and women, but between the constant funding crises and having to do more with less because we can’t get rid of the sequester and the repeated deployments they’ve decided to retire. These too are lost talent, not that anyone could really blame them given their length of service.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Major Major Major Major: Just saw that at LGF.
Jeffro
@redshirt:
Ah, but Obama was elected, and re-elected, and Hillz is about to get elected despite this whirlwind…quiet competence. Doing her homework. The alternative is…what? Trying to match these loons in a yell-fest? Nah. This election is going to crack the GOP but good. The survivors – some of them, anyway – are going to have to start standing for something and attempting to deliver something to their voters. That includes a reset of expectations…no more opposing everything Dems put up ‘just because’.
Major Major Major Major
@GregB: @trollhattan: drip drip drip.
ETA: this better be in three minutes.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I believe this is it:
http://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-benghazi-sputnik-508635
Jeffro
@GregB:
Don’t forget Graham Jr. He’s been worse than these clowns this go-around.
Omnes Omnibus
@LurkerExtraordinaire: When I was in the army, I never talked politics with black officers. I presume they were never going to raise the topic with me. And I was never going to start a conversation with #notallwhiteofficers.
Villago Delenda Est
@Adam L Silverman: What struck me during the Iraq mess was two-stars who were commanding divisions who opted to retire. These guys were on a track to three and four start country, yet they bailed. They’d had it with a very very stupid war that they were unable to resolve due to ideological interference that was blind to reality.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: ohhhh shit.
sukabi
@SenyorDave: THAT’S an epic beat down. :-)
Anne Laurie
@Capri:
If this new coalition forms around the Obama/HRClinton base — as seems likely, right now — it’ll be center-left, not center-right. That’s why the Clinton campaign is explicitly courting ‘sensible’ Republicans from a leftist perspective, talking about inclusion, womens/LGBT*/disability rights, making the social support networks stronger for everybody.
Hillary’s husband, a generation ago, had to court ‘impressionable’ voters (and media) from the right — thus the much-derided DLC. But the global force of social change has shifted so far left & the GOP has shifted so far right since then, the balance point is much closer to us old-school liberals!
Villago Delenda Est
@Anne Laurie: THIS
Jeffro
Wow. An 89-year-old grandma takes the time to write Trump a letter about getting himself back on track…because otherwise, “[he] could easily lose this thing.”
Sad!
Omnes Omnibus
@sukabi: The Darren Sharper reference was ice cold.
Major Major Major Major
@Anne Laurie: I think it’s important here to distinguish between liberals and leftists. Hillary and Obama are liberals. Most American leftists are democrats, but do not feel well represented within the party. The party is for the most part liberal with some leftist leanings. “Center-left” doesn’t quite get at this dynamic.
LurkerExtraordinaire
@Omnes Omnibus: lol, true.
I get why they really don’t talk politics, especially with enlisted/NCOs. I am seeing what I am seeing via these guys’ personal Facebook pages. I’d be comfortable discussing politics with two of them, possibly three, but certainly not with the Pam Gellar fan.
Now, I feel comfortable talking politics with two of my former first sergeants, both of whom are black men. Also, all the female enlisted I served with HATE Trump. As do I. Maybe it has to do with dealing with misogyny still in the Army circa 2000-2009.
LurkerExtraordinaire
@Villago Delenda Est: I believe Batiste was one of them. I think as soon as he retired, he was calling out the Bush bullshit.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: and you know…that WaPo story is yet another example of older white folks and how THEY feel about the election…could we get something from any other groups, you know, that make up the majority of folks in this country who are not supporting Orangemandias?
Mnemosyne
@jl:
On a less scary level, the Apollo is in NYC. Trump is locally notorious for never, ever paying a bill. So why should they take on all of that hassle when they know they’re going to get stiffed anyway?
If I were any venue that Trump wanted to use, my conditions would be, “Cash. Up. Front.”
Anne Laurie
@schrodinger’s cat:
I wouldn’t object to having the League of Women Voters take over the job again, but Raddatz & Cooper weren’t horrible last night. Unlike the original debacle, or the VP one, they held the two speakers (well, Trump) to a rough parity in speaking time, and didn’t let either Trump or the ‘undecideds’ wander so far off-topic that the points could be completely obscured. I’d say it was actually pretty effective to let Donnie physically stumble around the stage, primate-stalking Hillary & humping his own chair — with their continual teacher-like ‘stay on topic, your time is up, let your opponent finish’ comments, anybody tuning in for their first look at the two candidates got a really clear display of the differences between the two!
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: It doesn’t work well in US terms. In international terms, it is accurate. Center-left elsewhere tends to describe what we call liberal here. Liberal elsewhere tends to mean either center-right or libertarian in US terms.
Punchy
So if the Dems get both the Senate and WH, they immediately kill the remaining SCOTUS filly rule. Does RBG walk right after Hill puts Garland into a robe? How old is Souter? Does he walk in the 1st yr too? Could HRC get 3 robes by 2018?
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: of course not, don’t be silly. America consists entirely of white people, a disproportionate number of whom have a Y chromosome for some reason.
Omnes Omnibus
@LurkerExtraordinaire: I never talked politics with enlisted personnel. I also never did so with people who outranked me.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: If someone had told me in the mid-1970’s that the party of Richard Nixon would be actively conspiring with the Russians to subvert the US electoral process to elect a Republican Presidential candidate I would have suspected either mental illness or very strong hallucinogenics.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: yes, thank you, that’s an important clarification.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Just put up a dedicated post on it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Punchy:
RBG feels safe to stay around.
Souter is gone already. Do you mean Breyer?
I see him retiring reasonably soon.
Anoniminous
@Jeffro:
No. Newspapers are a dying business and old white people are the only ones still buying their silly little product.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Though I hate to say it, troll shomi called it yesterday and said that the next big revelation was going to be related to Russia.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: Same. One of my NCOs in 1984 was very, very bold and wore a Mondale button to a social event (in civvies), something I would never consider doing. Or putting a bumper sticker on my POV, for that matter, even though both were allowed.
The NCO (an E-6) was proud to do it, I asked him about it, and he replied he was proud, and it was within the regs. He was right, of course, but I still thought it inadvisable..that it might bounce back on him, even though it was agreed that he was an exceptional NCO or he wouldn’t be in a battalion S3 shop.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Not all of them, but some of them. Unfortunately too many of those that didn’t learn the important lessons wound up advancing to 3 and 4 star billets.
Matt McIrvin
@Punchy: Sotomayor replaced Souter. The next liberal out besides Ginsburg is probably Stephen Breyer. He’s 78.
sukabi
@Major Major Major Major: on a much smaller scale that’s how family annihilaters think…
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Hell, I bought into the non-partisan thing and did not vote in ’88. My opinions, however, were my opinions.
Anne Laurie
@Chris:
As many others have pointed out, the “social conservatives” tend to carve out a distinction between ‘those (reviled) people’ and ‘my (personal) people’. Trump’s Orthodox Jewish son-in-law is running his campaign because he married Trump’s favorite kid, even though Don & his sons are pretty explicitly anti-Semetic. Just as William Feckin’ Buckley could call for HIV-positive individuals to be tattooed (‘certainly on their buttocks, possibly on their foreheads’) for better identification, even though he himself was bisexual. It’s not about logic, it’s about ‘my tribe good, your tribe bad’ — they just want the absolute authority to decree who’s part of the GOOD tribe, like them.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Yep!
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: Buckley was bi?
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: I also expected a big Russia story, but this can’t be it. Too convoluted to explain clearly in one sentence and so what? Trump is using sloppy Russian news interpretations to slam Hilz? No story there. More to come, I expect.
Matt McIrvin
…Also, Anthony Kennedy is 80. I don’t know if he’d retire under Hillary Clinton, and as far as I know he’s in good health, but continued existence is particularly uncertain for men at that age.
sukabi
@jl: if that’s what it was and he’s just talking to the other stoners, then he’s NOT running for president, he’s in it to funnel money into his pockets.
Immanentize
@Matt McIrvin: I think (and have heard from ex clerks) that Kennedy is ready to retire. Like two years ago. But waited for this election like White waited for Clinton.
ETA Also, too, Thomas is not a very healthy fellow.
Mnemosyne
@Immanentize:
Yeah, I think this is just the first shot. I think there’s more to come.
PIGL
@Adam L Silverman: what you use two at a time? I find one long sword or one dao at a time enough for most contingencies.
Princess
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch: That’s one poll I am willing to bother freeping.
Omnes Omnibus
@PIGL: He also uses axes. I am a one sword at a time guy, but that’s probably because I fenced
SFAW
@Villago Delenda Est:
Were Corrupt Fascist Sexual Predator Deadbeat Donnie a real “political prisoner,” he would never see the inside of a jail cell.
And not because he “found a loophole.” Well, not the kind of loop hole that he normally thinks of, that is.
sukabi
@Major Major Major Major: someone has a Red Phone.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus: that whole thing was awesome!
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s a new one. Maybe he caught gayitude from Gore Vidal?
Adam L Silverman
@PIGL: One ken, one shoto:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncG5g9RGTdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmhLd3YFBiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70Z9YBVu_8s
I’m also very proficient with just one. And with short staff and tanto (my preference here is a hiatsu).
Matt McIrvin
@Immanentize: Bad luck for him–I doubt either possible result in the general election is one Kennedy would be happy with.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: No, I disarmed the axe guy and then I beat the crap out of him.
Matt McIrvin
Left-progressives I know are already talking about preparing a primary challenge to Hillary Clinton in 2020.
Keith G
@Anne Laurie: You point to something which has been giving me hope since it was clear that Hillary would be running for president. I view her as someone who understands the importance of party building and creating a deeper party infrastructure. This seems not to have bee as much of a priority with the current president.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: My bad. I am still a single stabby sword guy.
SFAW
@Matt McIrvin:
Maybe they’ll re-animate Teddy Kennedy to try it, although I doubt he’d have any better luck this time.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
As in foil/sabre/epee?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: And since I do aikido the beating was to restore harmony and balance to the universe.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: Yes. More experience with foil, but epee is more fun. Fewer rules. Stab a foot to win? Gotta love it.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Not a problem.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
“You were the Chosen One!!”
Punchy
@Omnes Omnibus: Yup, meant Breyer. My bad
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
Outside of my alma mater having (at one time) a decent fencing team (we had a guy who was NCAA champ for foil, other fencers were pretty good, too), I know approximately zero about it — other than learning very quickly that it ain’t much like Errol Flynn’s gyrations.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: I am not your, or anyone else’s, father.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Weird fact: when I was playing rugby, I had little anger about anything. All my young dude aggression was spent through rugger. And I was really even tempered guy off pitch.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m probably old enough to be your father, however.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Villago Delenda Est: Yup.
steverinoCT
I had a conversation with a fellow at work, and when I confessed to being an Obama voter (I said, “Sorry to disappoint you…”), he was aghast. “I thought you were a patriot!” I was wearing a ship’s ballcap from my 16 years in the Navy at the time.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I get the same thing from martial arts. And working out at the gym. Basically variations on moving/physical zen.
Omnes Omnibus
@steverinoCT: As the Iraq invasion started, I railed against it (risking my job, btw); a co-worker who knew I had been an army officer asked me “What kind of soldier were you?” I responded, “The kind who doesn’t want his soldiers killed for no reason.” I was out of the army then, but it was my best moment as an army officer.
Mnemosyne
@SFAW:
Don’t watch Errol Flynn in those movies — watch Basil Rathbone. He was a legit fencing champion and did his own stunts. He was to Hollywood fencing what Fred Astaire was to movie musicals.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: He also was a legit war hero.
burnspbesq
@BruceFromOhio:
It started right after Roe v. Wade. If you believe that abortion is murder, then anyone who advocates for it is literally doing the devil’s work, and there can be no compromise with that kind of evil. It spread from there.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
David Niven was a commando officer in WWII, and Christopher Lee was a spy.
British macho and American macho are very different things.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks! I had no idea re: Basil.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: It take a tough man to be named Basil.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I know. I buy into Euro macho. But then I qualify under Euro macho. OTOH. I know why I joined the army and what I wanted to do. I wanted to pass OCS and get my jump wings. I did both.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Also, Roald Dahl was the real James Bond in WWII, complete with bed-hopping.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Too tall. Fight on if it is important to you. I ain’t fighting.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m not fighting, just providing amusing trivia. Seriously, this guy was fucking Clare Booth Luce (among many others) for his country.
JR in WV
First, Soonergrunt, thanks for taking the time to pitch in this opinion piece, it’s good.
Responding to others’ comments, in no particular order:
I think Clarence Thomas is the only sitting justice (since the death of Fat Tony) who really deserves to be impeached and to lose his Federal pension. He has been caught not even completing the forms for his wife’s political business income, has participated in ruling in cases where he has personally benefited from the rulings.
Not to mention anyone who participated in the Bush putsch of 2000.
To vote for Obama was for me the most patriotic American vote I have ever cast. For people to cast him in the crazed manner the Republicans have shows their utter lack of reason AND their total inability to set bigotry aside and vote for the competent choice.
Trump in Harlem, that would work so well. I suspect his handlers wanted to incite a riot so Trump could point to the scary lieberal democrat ni–ers in the inner cities. Completely ignoring that most African-Americans are solidly middle-class and live where most middle-class people live – not in the inner cities, which Trump uses as a euphemism for Da Ghetto.
Trump is scary, I was fearful for Hillary’s safety last night. I expect her Secret Service detail was pretty tense as well. They have to hear from their Trump detail counterparts, and I can’t imagine that what they hear is good. Needing to escort protestors and reporters out of Nazi rallies can’t be fun.
Thanks again, Sooner… keep us posted on what you’re up to and how things are going.
And now I gotta go to bed, I didn’t sleep well last night, that shit-show Trump put on really upset me. Somewhere I saw that Hillary said to the press on her plane, “Let’s take our seats and get airborne so we can serve some drinks!” which no one could blame her for! No idea if that was real or imagined, doesn’t matter.
Take care all, and do some work for Hillary and the down-ticket races.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus:
a number of men said they had first-hand reason to believe this was true. He was notorious, even among his conservative WASP peers, for inviting college YAF types — but only the good-looking ones! — to stay at his house for weeks at a time, and to swim nude in the pool in the moonlight. At least one of his kids wrote, in her autobiography, about her mother retiring to ‘her wing’ with a bottle or several, while Pater hung around the den or the cabana (depending on the season), having long private mentoring sessions with an ever-changing cast of young men.
As Tallulah Bankhead said, he never sucked my dick… but.
Anne Laurie
@Matt McIrvin:
As long as they help us get her elected this year, bless their hearts.
Anne Laurie
@SFAW: Joke I first heard from my (not straight) baby sister:
What’s the difference between a gay bar and an Irish pub?
Gays go to the bar to get drunk; drunks go to the pub to get gay.
Can’t swear that Buckley ever actually performed a sexual act with another man, but he was not the only guy of his Irish-Catholic generation who spent more time hanging around (openly) gay “intellectuals” & good-looking young men than he did with his wife or any other female persons.
I didn’t wonder about it much, myself, until I read his daughter’s book…
JAFD
@Anne Laurie: There were many men who spent their formative years in all-male boarding schools / colleges / universities, in the era from Arnold at Rugby thru Stonewall, who may not have lusted for other men’s bodies but who developed deep emotional connections / friendships with other men, and sometimes men wrote letters that sound passionate, but they would have shuddered at the thought of rubbing naughty bits together.
As someone born in Truman’s administration, I would say that the question of ‘were people truly innocent / naive / ‘giving a wink and a nod” sometimes has no definite answer.
Donalbain
@Botsplainer: The Pepe character is certainly a bot programmed to respond as soon as Trump tweets.
Procopius
@Amanda in the South Bay: No, the officer corps has always been tilted toward the South. That’s why graduates of Virginia Military Institute and The Citadel are as much ring-knockers as West Pointers. It really goes back to before the Civil War, too. I think the preponderance of Dominionist Christians in the Air Force is new, though.
Jim Parish
Way back when I was in college, I spent a couple of years in ROTC. (I got out before signing the contract.) One day in early November, 1976, I was sitting in a Military Science class, and the teacher, Maj. Lee, began going around the room asking us who we had voted for. When he got to me, I said, “I would prefer not to say.” He said, “Oh”, and didn’t ask anyone else.
I don’t think I’ve ever been angrier with any teacher than I was that day.