Open Thread: Media Shocked to Discover That Trump’s “Smart Pills” Are DEER DROPPINGS!!!

There’s a paleolithicly ancient joke about the bloviating know-it-all whose fellow hunters finally prank him into eating a handful of “smart pills”. And when he makes the awful discovery, they tell him “See — you’re getting smarter already!”

Just look at the outrage on Tapper’s mug…

#EventheNepotisticallyGifted Luke Russert!…






223 replies
  1. 1
    lollipopguild says:

    Karma is coming for Trumps ass.

  2. 2
    sherparick says:

    Luke Russert has just gone “Driftglass!”

  3. 3

    I’m waiting to see what Bill Maher has to say to Kellyanne Conway on “Real Time” in a few minutes. I hope he makes her cry.

  4. 4
    geg6 says:

    What a night for Maher to have Kellyanne Conway on after a month long hiatus.

  5. 5
    Eric U. says:

    @sherparick: dayam, Russert tells the truth for once, is this why he quit?

  6. 6
    redshirt says:

    LUUUKE!

    Seriously, hot takes from Russert.

  7. 7
    Betty Cracker says:

    Luke Russert! Well I’ll be darned!

  8. 8
    Mnemosyne says:

    I finally bought a new cover for my iPad Mini and I am nerding out right now.

    I was a little worried about the holding technology since the similar one I have lets the iPad slip slightly in an annoying way, but this one has Velcro under the flap that holds it in place.

  9. 9
  10. 10
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    Brave, brave Sir Luke! Another hero speaking truth to power after he has safely left the arena and is sipping cognac alco-pop in his velveteen smoking jacket in the comfort of his study man-cave.

  11. 11
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    Random question: what was the name of that BBQ place you recommended this summer? I thought it was in my Yelp bookmarks and now I can’t find it.

  12. 12
    Jeffro says:

    (moving to this thread now)

    GOOD ON YOU, LUKE…

    …dang, he could sell t-shirts with #4, #5, and especially #6 on them…

  13. 13
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s pretty cool! Bookmarked for my possible acquisition of an iPad Mini in the indefinite future.

  14. 14

    Good for Luke.

    I’m not usually a Maher fan but this ought to be interesting.

  15. 15
    Corner Stone says:

    Man, sorry I was on this here 12 hours ago. Damn youse!
    Russsssssert

  16. 16
    Jeffro says:

    I seriously think Trump & Bannon outsmar…well, I hate to say “outsmarted” themselves, that implies thinking and strategy here…but still, I think they thought they’d throw yet another weirdo moment out there, pull in ‘moderate’ dimwits and possibly twist the knife on Hillary here.

    Oh no.

    No, they did not ‘outsmart’ themselves…more like ‘out dumbed’…

    Here you go, Trump: karma, it’s what’s for dinner. Karma, I’m loving it. Karma…just do it!

  17. 17
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Velveteen? Don’t you make rabbits out of that? Not you personally, I mean. Not there is anything wrong with it.

  18. 18
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    They have the same style for most of the other tablets — just search “fintie composition” (Fintie is the company that makes it).

    They also made my Kindle cover, so I know they make a decent product.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I got my Mom one for her full size iPad. It has held up well. Do not get the hybrid leather/grey denim one. I had that and the leather cracked along the spine of the cover.

  20. 20
    Jeffro says:

    @Corner Stone: Ok, credit for you here, Corner.

    Can we start imagining what tweets #7, #8, and #9 would look like, if and when they appear? How does LR top “…you race-baiting motherf…”? Has he been watching too much Key & Peele??

  21. 21
    Felonius Monk says:

    Prediction: Back to Both Sides Do It by Tuesday of next week.

  22. 22
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    This campaign is killing me. I’ve watched more MSNBC today than I have in the entire previous year. And now I’m watching Bill freakin’ Maher, for God’s sake.

  23. 23
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    What, did Luke Russert just get zapped by a truth ray and now he’s blurting out shit that will insure he’s never, ever allowed to sit at the Kool Kid’s table at Sally Quinn’s?

  24. 24
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Velveteen? Don’t you make rabbits out of that? Not you personally, I mean.

    Whatever you do. Don’t buy that children’s book and give it to Joey’s girlfriend as her birthday present.

  25. 25
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I was going to get the purple one by the same company, because purple is to me what black is to Neil Gaiman, but then I saw the composition book cover and had to have it.

  26. 26
    Corner Stone says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: He has more money in the bank than you have sperm.

  27. 27
    hueyplong says:

    Right now, when things are perceived to have tightened, is a great time for anyone in or of the media to step forward strongly, however much he, she or it has ducked responsibility in the past. So good on you, Luke, a sentence I never thought I’d type. Didn’t just call out Trump, but also acknowledged Obama’s absurd exercise of self-restraint in the face of such a dramatically insulting years-long, race-based hate campaign.

  28. 28
    RandomMonster says:

    WTF kind of candidate fantasizes about their opponent getting lynched by the Second Amendment crowd: Someone Got Under Trump’s Skin. How the hell is this not an outrage?

  29. 29
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Corner Stone: Yet another reason for confiscatory estate taxes.

  30. 30
    redshirt says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Russert’s got the Libtard Virus.

  31. 31

    God, that Kellyanne Conway is a steaming pile of horseshit. What an amazing lying asshole.

  32. 32
    Renie says:

    Love this sentence from a WashPo article about Trump’s press conference/infomercial:

    “Dan Gillmor, a media scholar at Arizona State University, on Twitter called this episode “universal sewer dwelling” for cable news”

    link

  33. 33

    @RandomMonster: too much to go around right now. Plus him saying she should be murdered is nothing new.

  34. 34
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Velveteen? Don’t you make rabbits out of that? Not you personally, I mean. Not there is anything wrong with it.

    It’s crappy cut-rate velvet (that’s why it’s used for kids’ toys). Very short ‘nap’, so it can be airbrushed with painted features (cheaper than detailed embroidery).

    No gentleman would wear a velvet smoking jacket, but I suspect Luke probably doesn’t know that, nor is he capable of telling good fabric from cheap mockups.

  35. 35
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    Bill Maher fucking sucks! He was so proud that Conway was on and let her rant for minutes on end with very little pushback. Fucking bollocks!

  36. 36
    RandomMonster says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s a veiled incitement to assassinate a political opponent. What does it take for a mainstream journalist to call this out?

  37. 37
    WaterGirl says:

    @sherparick: Didn’t Luke leave MSNBC? Does he have another job in “journalism” or is he at home in his PJs?

  38. 38
    RandomMonster says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne: Bill Maher has sucked since his days of tapping Ann Coulter.

  39. 39
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Only because it’s an open thread ….

    I’d like to share a poem by my friend Charles Coe. I like all his stuff, but this one really spoke to me.

    The full moon tonight is amazing. It reminds me of a poem I wrote a while ago for a friend going through a tough time. I’ll share it here in hopes it might provide a little comfort for someone else…

    WHEN GRIEF COMES CALLING

    Grief waits patiently for the phone to ring
    to bring the midnight news that can’t be borne,
    but must be borne. Grief comes quietly
    to the door, slips through the keyhole
    like smoke, or the long tail of a bad dream
    that wraps itself around you and won’t let go.

    When grief comes calling
    try as you might you cannot bar
    this uninvited guest who sours the milk,
    turns each bite of food into sand and dust.

    But as time passes, small pleasures begin their
    slow, tip-toed return—the sound of dry leaves
    dancing on the wind, or the smell of baking bread.

    And then one night as you drive
    over the crest of a hill, a full moon,
    lying low and huge in the sky, leaps into view
    like a giant child playing hide and seek,
    and in that moment of surprise and wonder
    you enter a new land where grief still resides,
    but no longer rules.

    Charles Coe

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RandomMonster: @Major Major Major Major: Actually this is an adaptation of standard language on any 2nd Amendment related column/post at conservative political sites, as well as the firearms sites. The argument is that those elected and appointed officials that want to restrict the “natural, civil, and Constitutional right of Americans to keep and bear arms” through gun control legislation who are also provided with taxpayer funded security should immediately forego and/or be stripped of their armed security. If they “do not believe that the average American has the right to keep and bear arms for self defense”, then they should not be allowed to avail themselves of taxpayer funded armed security and protection.

  41. 41
    jl says:

    I remember some kind of rabbit droppings joke skit from a Boy Scout camp back in the day.
    That brings back memories. There was also an audience participation skit where had to figure out the meaning of the secret saying to get into the secret club.

    So, maybe this is the ‘Ohwa tago siam’ moment for the press?

  42. 42
    Mike E says:

    @Mustang Bobby:

    God, that Kellyanne Conway is a steaming pile of horseshit. What an amazing lying asshole.

    Fucking A right.

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @WaterGirl: He has a web only show on msnbc.com.

  44. 44
    Dadadadadadada says:

    Odd thought from earlier: Cuban has offered $10m for a four-hour interview with Trump. Cuban later clarified that that money could be donated to the charity of Trump’s choice, or Trump could even keep it himself. Some other guy who’s much richer than Trump has offered $5m, donated to a Trump-selected charity, for publication of Trump’s tax papers.

    It is irresponsible not to speculate: this was Trump’s plan all along. He just needs to wait until the keep-it-if-you-want offer comes from the $5m guy, then publish the taxes, do the Cuban interview, pocket the money, skip town for the Caymans, renounce his US citizenship en route, and live out his worthless life in relative comfort beyond the reach of the law.
    Crazy, yes, but tell me that’s crazier than any of a dozen things he’s already done.

  45. 45
    HR Progressive says:

    I just discovered that Lil’ Russert has blocked me on the Twitter, apparently.

    Not sure when that happened, but I think he must have gotten tired of me calling him out on his shitty fauxnourlism.

    Badge of honor, IMO.

  46. 46

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah, I know. They did the same thing about ARMED GUARDS!! at Sidwell (which the quakers were a bit put off by). Trump just happens to articulate it in the worst and stupidest and most violent way possible.

  47. 47
    CaseyL says:

    @Dadadadadadada: $5m won’t even come close to keeping Trump in the style he regards as his divine right. Not even for a year. Maybe $5B. Maybe.

    MSM will revert to its usual ways in a day or two. Fuck’em.

  48. 48
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    @RandomMonster: It’s a Friday night routine with the wife. He has his moments. This interview was especially awful, though. And fuck Anne Coulter. Also, too.

  49. 49
    japa21 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think the key here is the add on, “then let’s see what happens.” Again, he can deny encouraging any violence, but he knows his audience.

    BTW, I was reading a comment of yours from last night where you gave a description of yourself, ht wt, etc. I don’t ever want to run into you in a dark alley.

  50. 50
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I view those standard lines as veiled threats too. But maybe that is just me.

    The hard core 2nd amendment nuts are thugs who believe the absurdity that everyone (well, actually only people who think like they do, but I’ll let that pass for the moment) have a Constitutional right to shoot people and blow up stuff if they get pissed off enough about something, anything. It’s BS. And for some reason, politicians are afraid to call them out explicitly on this nonsense and say it is nonsense. I don’t understand why they don’t.

    In my opinion, much of what these gun nuts say amount to veiled threats of violence. I don’t see how it excuses Trump, if that is your point.

  51. 51
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne:

    And fuck Anne Coulter.

    No. No way. You fuck her.

  52. 52
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Mustang Bobby: KellyAnne won’t cry. She put her soul up for rent decades ago, And Trump’s got it for thes next two months…

  53. 53
    Dadadadadadada says:

    Also, too, a thought about the gun-control comments:
    Trump has challenged Hillary to live by her conviction and renounce armed security. A stupid thing to say, but if you squint it looks fair enough. Hillary should respond in kind:
    “Why yes, Donald, I’d gladly give up my armed security for one day in order to live my gun-control convictions. Just as long as you live your anti-gun-control convictions on the same day by foregoing all security screenings at campaign events and business meetings, allowing open access to all members of the public, and providing loaded firearms to each and every person, without exception, who happens to wander in.”
    The thing is I think Trump is actually dumb enough to fall for that.
    ETD some especially uncharitable thoughts about what might happen at that Trump rally.

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: @japa21: Yep, its a double pitched/two way pitched dog whistle. Both to the normal 2nd Amendment Absolutist crowd and to those that fantasize about doing harm to Secretary Clinton or President Obama or the First Lady etc.

  55. 55
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @WaterGirl:

    He left NBC News in July, so he’s at home in his PJs clipping stock coupons and posting brave Twitter screeds. Hence my disdain. He’s following in the grand tradition of Dwight Eisenhower, who warned against the “military industrial complex”—on his way out the door in 1961.

    ETA: I guess no one has to actually clip stock coupons anymore.

  56. 56
    RandomMonster says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you, Adam, for being an able interpreter. I thought I was conversant in Rightwing, but apparently my skills are up there with my Spanish.

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @japa21: Shouldn’t be too hard, I largely avoid dark alleys!

  58. 58
    jl says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): thanks for info on Russert.

    ” I guess no one has to actually clip stock coupons anymore. ”
    Maybe if your money is old enough, might be few left to clip.

    When I worked in financial consulting, I heard the saying “That guy’s money is so old, it isn’t even green’.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: To avoid running into yourself?

  60. 60
    sigaba says:

    “Looking forward to memoir”

    Made my day.

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: Wasn’t using it to excuse Trump, just providing context. I have a longer post coming (eventually) about where in US political history/development the concepts you’re referring to come from (an extreme offshoot of anti-Federalism known as radical localism). I was even able to get my hands on the recounting of the first use of Stand Your Ground as a defense. It was used during a trial in Philadelphia in 1799 in a case involved protesters against the Sedition Act.

  62. 62
    Old Dan and Little Anne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’ll try most things once but I’m not fucking any skeletons.

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RandomMonster: NP. If you don’t read those sites, and the comments to them, you’re likely not going to be acquainted with this as an argument.

  64. 64
    redshirt says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Luke Russert is no more.
    Yub Nub.

  65. 65
    RandomMonster says:

    a trial in Philadelphia in 1799 in a case involved protesters against the Sedition Act.

    Sedition Act you say. Do tell more!

  66. 66
    eclare says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That was beautiful and helped me. Thank you.

  67. 67
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The link is deader than a doornail. No stories after July 1 that I can find.

    Unless you mean some other show.

  68. 68
  69. 69
    Gravenstone says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s also a tacit admission that Trump’s rabid and delusional followers who might wish to harm Secretary Clinton (or others) are only held in check by knowing they face armed and competent opposition from the Secret Service detail, In other words, they’re peckerless cowards who can’t abide a fair fight.

  70. 70
    Jeffro says:

    Annnnnnd Corey Lewandowski (CNN/Trump) is on CNN, defending Trump by asking when the President will be apologizing for all the incendiary things he’s said about…

    …waaaaait for it…

    …Donald Trump.

    I know we’re gonna win in November, but I’m starting to wonder if Canadian winters are really all that bad…

  71. 71
    Mike in NC says:

    When you’ve lost Luke Russert…

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @japa21:

    Get him to tell you the axe story. It’s a doozy.

  73. 73
    sigaba says:

    @jl:

    I remember some kind of rabbit droppings joke skit from a Boy Scout camp back in the day.

    There’s a quote that’s been coming up lately, from the Poor Richard’s Almanac:

    Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

    @Jeffro: Canada has very nice winters. Though I grow very weary of people swearing to emigrate. It has become a great liberal oath: “Sic semper tyrannis, while I sic to Vancouver.”

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RandomMonster: I have a copy of the pdf of the case that was written up for publication in one of the local papers. One of the defendants was the publisher of the paper. Short version: several anti-Federalists in Philly protesting the Alien and Sedition Acts posted handbills for a protest on the gates to the courtyard of St. Michaels (I think it was St. Michaels) Catholic Church. This led to a confrontation with Federalists and law enforcement. One of the two organizers pulled his pistol and fired when he felt threatened – no one was killed, pretty sure no one was even hurt. In the defense to the shooting/attempted murder charge he used Stand Your Ground under the Common Law. The court rejected this, ruling there was no basis in the Common Law to stand one’s ground – one must first try to retreat first. The radical localism stuff is related, and overlaps with this, but is somewhat distinct. Just need to get a few minutes to write the thing up because its going to take a while…

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gravenstone: yep, no argument here

  76. 76
    bluehill says:

    Who the F cares any more about what Trump thinks about Obama’s birthplace. Obama isn’t running any more. However, the media falls all over themselves to cover the “news” letting Trump once again dictate the news cycle. Of course, his hardcore supporters don’t care what he says because even they can figure what Trump is doing. It’s the undecided people who aren’t that enthusiastic about Clinton either that are more likely to think that Trump is becoming more “reasonable.” At least CNN seems to be waking up and realizing that they are getting “played,” but that probably stop from covering Trump’s next announcement that he’s going to get tough on Putin.

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Nope, that was the show I meant. Apparently, he is gone, gone, gone.

    @Adam L Silverman: I see.

  78. 78
    Redshift says:

    @Dadadadadadada:

    Trump has challenged Hillary to live by her conviction and renounce armed security. A stupid thing to say, but if you squint it looks fair enough.

    You have to do a lot more than squint, you have to buy into the ammosexual fantasy of gun-grabbers. Having armed security is perfectly consistent with the conviction that the only people who should have guns are well-trained licensed carriers who only carry them where necessary (and even that is a lot further than any actual gun control proposals go.)

  79. 79
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No. No way. You fuck her.

    The standard/fallback expression in my frat, lo these many years ago, was “I wouldn’t fuck her with YOUR dick.”

  80. 80
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @RandomMonster: Um, Benghazi? Emails? Clinton Foundation?

  81. 81
    sigaba says:

    @bluehill:

    Who the F cares any more about what Trump thinks about Obama’s birthplace. Obama isn’t running any more. However, the media falls all over themselves to cover the “news” letting Trump once again dictate the news cycle.

    Our media have no idea what people want to know or need to know, apart from what they will click on. What people click on is the beginning and the end of the public interest.

  82. 82
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: In mine, it was “You brought her; you fuck her.”

  83. 83
    Mike in NC says:

    @Jeffro:

    I’m starting to wonder if Canadian winters are really all that bad…

    Not really. We loved seeing Nova Scotia in July, where my wife’s and my grandparents came from the same small town. They even had the same maiden names, so we assumed we were related. But I could definitely live there other than face the Trumpocalypse.

  84. 84
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @sigaba: DING DING DING DING DING

  85. 85
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m looking forward to the post.

  86. 86
    Peale says:

    @Jeffro: yep. It really is difficult for me to believe that the ownership of CNN arent a bunch of lunatics who should be relieved of their property and driven into the sea by pitchfork and broomstick swinging crowds for hiring a guy who is still on Trump’s payroll.

  87. 87
    RandomMonster says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ah, I’m smelling the not-so-faint aroma of the Whiskey Rebellion. Our founding father George W. (Washington, not to be confused with…) knew how to deal with that. Truly looking forward to your post!

  88. 88
    seaboogie says:

    @japa21: @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t ever want to run into you in a dark alley.

    If I ever have to go into a dark alley, I want Adam about one or two steps behind me to deal with any baddies that show up.

  89. 89
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, that’s pretty sexist. Or something.

  90. 90
    Elie says:

    @RandomMonster:

    I think that we need to stop looking for the media to do that entirely. They have. It is up to the American PEOPLE to make that completely unacceptable. Sure, I want the media to uniformly and completely condemn, but what does it matter if enough of the PEOPLE do not? This is a democratic republic. If we have an uninformed and corrupt electorate, we must change the electorate and face what that means. For one, I think that despite some of the polls, folks are truly onto Trump and while we should work feverishly, he will not win and will in fact lose decidedly. There will still be a lot of mess to clean up, but he will not be president. This is a hard lesson and even with a good results, we will still bear scars from this and our reputation and image in the world will be damaged… how much? we will see.
    But yeah, our media is very imperfect and very opportunistic. But it should not bear the burden here of blame — its on us — the citizens.

  91. 91
    Gravenstone says:

    @seaboogie: Nope, you always send the tank in first. Then DPS follow up once tank has aggro.

  92. 92
    redshirt says:

    @SFAW: Fucking frat boys.

  93. 93
    Jeffro says:

    @Redshift:

    You have to do a lot more than squint, you have to buy into the ammosexual fantasy of gun-grabbers. Having armed security is perfectly consistent with the conviction that the only people who should have guns are well-trained licensed carriers who only carry them where necessary (and even that is a lot further than any actual gun control proposals go.)

    Yup. Everyone thinks they’re going to be a hero, just like in the movies.

    A police officer to the staff at my workplace during a recent info session: “I was at Target with my family and in the checkout line, I saw a man openly carrying…and even though that’s legal in our state, it made me incredibly nervous, as I had no idea what his level of training was…” Yeah, and just hoping/praying that some kid didn’t pop a balloon or drop a book.

    It’s insanity.

  94. 94
    SFAW says:

    @seaboogie:

    If I ever have to go into a dark alley, I want Adam about one or two steps behind me to deal with any baddies that show up.

    Hey, Adam: I got an idea for a new gig for you. Probably pays better than being a FrontPager. Might not even have to give up your day job.

  95. 95
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @jl: They don’t even have a right to bear arms unless they’re part of a well-regulated militia, but of course thanks to the late Fat Tony, the clause that sets the tone for the entire amendment has been ignored.

  96. 96
    Jeffro says:

    @Peale:

    It really is difficult for me to believe that the ownership of CNN arent a bunch of lunatics who should be relieved of their property and driven into the sea by pitchfork and broomstick swinging crowds for hiring a guy who is still on Trump’s payroll.

    They’re not loons – they’re drawing eyeballs (and ad dollars) after all. With the slight problem that they’re endangering the republic. They just need to see the error of their ways, and that’s where your seaside tour idea comes into play. I’ll settle for Lewandowski being so utterly mocked and humiliated that he jumps into the sea first.

  97. 97
  98. 98
    Dog Dawg Damn says:

    I guess I don’t understand why the Clinton campaign isn’t hitting him on the war crimes / torture / dictator-love angle more…

    1) Advocates torture

    2) Advocates war crimes (multiple varieties and instances)

    3) Admires dictators, not democratically elected leaders

    ===========

    I do think the bigot / racist angle works for some voters, but there’s a treasure trove of info here, and they don’t push it much. It has to come from the campaign, or media won’t do anything about it. Hit it hard, eh?

  99. 99
    SFAW says:

    @redshirt:

    Fucking frat boys.

    Not sure what you’re trying to say.

    And it’s not like either of us was at UMO, where we’d have to go moose-tipping or fisher-baiting for amusement.

  100. 100
    Joel says:

    Maybe the press has gotten spooked about the possibility of a Trump presidency.

    As for the NYT, didn’t they host future Supreme Court Justice Peter Thiel to write an op-ed for them? Maybe there’s some there there.

  101. 101

    @Gravenstone: rogue sneaks in first. Tank pulls then sneak attack.

  102. 102
    redshirt says:

    @SFAW: You know of fisher baiting?!

  103. 103
    seaboogie says:

    @Dog Dawg Damn: Possible that they are waiting for the debate and keeping all but the news of the day close to their vest?

  104. 104

    @Dog Dawg Damn: lots of Americans WANT war crimes and many on both sides would prefer a dictator

  105. 105
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Seemed topically appropriate.

  106. 106
    Helen says:

    Watching “Everest” for the third time. I am not a movie person; too passive (the act of watching movies; not me personally) There are only a few movies that I’ve watched more than once. But this movie is so compelling and so true to the book “Into Thin Air” that it fascinates me.

    Let’s see. Jaws, Pulp Fiction, and Godfather 1 and 2 are the only movies I’ve watched more than once. Also, too, Love, Actually. Please don’t get all judgey about that last one. Escapism is good.

  107. 107

    @Joel: his op-ed was so bad. Like, college republican bad. Which is what he looks like so I guess it fits.

  108. 108
    RandomMonster says:

    @Elie: Don’t disagree at all, Elie.

  109. 109
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    @Betty Cracker: I didn’t watch a whole lot of Luke Russert but the past year or two,it really seemed like he had grown into the job and actually understood the maneuvering done in Congress which he didn’t even understand when he started.

  110. 110
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Helen:

    Also, too, Love, Actually.

    The trip to Milwaukee makes that movie for me.

  111. 111
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @bluehill:

    Who the F cares any more about what Trump thinks about Obama’s birthplace. Obama isn’t running any more.

    It’s all about “The Pivot™”

    It’s part of the Tablets that Moses brought down from the Mountain that politicans run toward The Center to win the election. Therefore Trump will Pivot™.

    It’s lazy reporting. They’ve made up their mind about how to cover Trump (“he’s the GOP nominee so he’s a serious candidate”) and that’s how they’re going to cover him.

    It’s just yammering to fill column inches and time on the TV box.

    It was good to see the headlines actually call out his statements as “false” for a change. Maybe the push-back against the NYTimes public editor piece is actually having an impact….

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  112. 112
    SFAW says:

    @redshirt:

    You know of fisher baiting?!

    Well, I’m out of practice. But I didn’t have to go to UMO to learn about it.

    ETA: Orono’s too damn far. Can get the same “education” (so to speak) at USM.

  113. 113
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile:

    When he started, he didn’t even understand how to shave.

  114. 114
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: I haven’t been to Maine since 1975. I was 11. The lobster was nice. Too much mayo on the lobster rolls though – I prefer Connecticut style.

    ETA: Is any of that stuff taught at Bowdoin or Colby?

  115. 115
    redshirt says:

    @SFAW: Agreed about Orono. Also uncomfortably close to Veazie.

  116. 116
    Regnad Kcin says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Daniel Shays wants a word w you

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RandomMonster: Its part of the continuum. Basically it was the form of anti-Federalism that existed along the frontier areas. The farther away from a large city or town and the closer to the wilderness, the more likely the prevailing beliefs were going to include that any government above the municipal (borough, township) could not be controlled and was a tyranny waiting to happen. Therefore the militia was to be composed of the local citizenry to protect them against the state and Federal governments, which were, at best, proto-tyrannies. Hence radical localism. Among these folks, and in these places, the discussions surrounding firearms and the militia was in regard to personal defense against the threats of the wilderness and frontier (including Native Americans), personal defense against other human predation, defense of Liberty against the proto-tyrannies of the distant state and Federal government, and the need for arms to provide for one’s family. Several states dealt with these tensions by debating adding additional firearms related amendments to their own state constitution. If I’m remembering correctly Pennsylvania has a version of the 2nd Amendment and an additional article in its constitution – or originally did – about the right to keep arms for hunting and personal defense. This was also discussed/proposed, but not included, in Virginia’s state constitution if I’m recalling correctly, as well as Massachusetts and several of the other original states.

    This was a very, very different discussion than that being had between the Federalists and anti-Federalists about the 2nd Amendment. That discussion was about who had control of the “militia of the several States”, who would fund them, provision them, when they could be called to Federal service/defense versus remaining under state control. The mainstream anti-Federalists thought that the radical localists were extremists and kind of kooky. But as is the case this idea of radical localism, including its unique version of what keeping and bearing arms was for, did not die. It has been carried down throughout American history and has become a very, very important component of modern conservatism over the past 50 years or so.

    You can’t stop the signal!

  118. 118
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @seaboogie: Wouldn’t that be in front of you?

  119. 119
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gravenstone: I’m not sure whether I resemble those remarks or am offended by them…

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: I’m qualified to do personal protection.

  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: One leads from the front.

  122. 122
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Not at Bowdoin — too hoity-toity. Colby, on the other hand …

    But I have to confess, I don’t know what “Connecticut style” is re: lobstah rolls. But I generally don’t have lobstah roll when I go to Maine — what’s the point of spoiling it with mayo? (as you have already noted) Of course, there ain’t much left when I get done with one from Bayley’s.

  123. 123
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Regnad Kcin: He can take a number. Shays himself was a bit different. For him, and his immediate followers, it was about the payments they were owed for service. The radical localists in the area, however, capitalized on Shays’ Rebellion to try to push their own agenda.

  124. 124
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: Butter, not mayo.

  125. 125
    ms_canadada says:

    @Betty Cracker: Now I want to adopt him. Wait…what? I already have 3 sons and a daughter. Still…

  126. 126
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m qualified to do personal protection.

    So I gathered. I hear it pays well.

    (Actually, I have no idea whether it does, just figured it pays more than Cole. )
    (No, that’s not supposed to be snark aimed at John, and I figure you’re not doing this for the money anyway.)

  127. 127
  128. 128
    bluehill says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Yes it’s lazy reporting, but I think it’s something even worse. They think that they are neutral observers covering Trump’s strategy, but they are part of the strategy. Trump/Conway/Bannon are counting on media to help execute their strategy, which is in my view to focus on the undecided voter who view both candidates as having negatives and 1) make the negatives appear equivalent via the media’s attempts to appear unbiased by equating Clinton’s “issues” to Trump’s; 2) make Trump appear to be backing away from his more controversial statements; 3) while also keeping the “negatives” of Clinton top of mind. These voters are likely to be low info voters who may profess a distrust of media but also get a lot of news from traditional news outlets and/or are influenced by the media. Sitting at an airport and CNN is on in the departure lounges and the headlines are all about Trump admits Obama born in the U.S. Hardcore Trump supporters don’t care. Clinton voters think he’s full of S, but that low info voter who’s not reading political websites on a Friday night may think that Trump seems a little less bad than Clinton.

  129. 129
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    In a lobster roll? Or when one eats a lobster? (I was afraid you were going to say they use white vinegar, or some such.)

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: I don’t get paid for writing here. As for personal protection work, I’m sure it pays quite well. I haven’t done anything close to it for quite some time.

  131. 131
    SFAW says:

    @bluehill:

    but that low info voter who’s not reading political websites on a Friday night may think that Trump seems a little less bad an than Clinton.

    Or if they’re hardcore BernOrBusters, or SteinKopfe, A LOT LESS BAD than Hitlary.

  132. 132
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SFAW: In the lobster roll. Toss lobster bits in melted butter instead of mayo. Otherwise, it is the same thing.

  133. 133
    Regnad Kcin says:

    @Adam L Silverman: but no one sent them tasty snacks or sextoys during their principled stand…

  134. 134

    @bluehill: I like Josh Marshall’a rule about trump. Find the stupidest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts. Yours is too smart.

  135. 135
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Regnad Kcin: That we know of. It may simply not have been recorded in the historical record.

  136. 136
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t get paid for writing here.

    Yes, Adam, I kind of figured that — or at least you weren’t getting paid much, because that’s how blogging is, if I understand things correctly. It was sort of the point.

    It was an attempt at “humor,” which seemed better at the time.

  137. 137
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    ” If I’m remembering correctly Pennsylvania has a version of the 2nd Amendment and an additional article in its constitution – or originally did – about the right to keep arms for hunting and personal defense. This was also discussed/proposed, but not included, in Virginia’s state constitution if I’m recalling correctly, ”

    IIRC, that was one of Jefferson’s proposals. and IIRC, the unconditional right to bear arms for those purposes were explicitly limited to one’s property.

  138. 138
    bluehill says:

    @SFAW: Sigh. In Canada right now near Vancouver and it really is a beautiful part of the world and the locals say that it is much more temperate than I thought …

  139. 139
    seaboogie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Wouldn’t that be in front of you?

    Well, you are the strategic one with mad skills, but in my vision of having to walk down the alley – I am actually doing the walk, but with backup. I figured if you were slightly behind you could cover my six, and hip-check me out of danger and deal with whatever shows up in any direction.

    About 35 years ago there was a woman who was raped and killed in daylight with many people around near to where I lived adjacent to High Park in Toronto. Used to walk home from the subway with keys through my fisted fingers. Was sunbathing once during that time in a public area and experienced a fellow creeping up through the bushes to spy on me. I took a very circuitous route home, phoned the police (the rapist/killer was still at large) and was met by the police who took me on a cruiser ride through the park. Nothing came of that, but even a bright sunny lawn can be a vulnerable place, and it doesn’t hurt to be alert and as tactical as one can be.

  140. 140
    SFAW says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, I guess that’s better than mayo.

    Thanks!

  141. 141
    rikyrah says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Lem’s on East 75th Street

  142. 142
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @bluehill: Agreed.

    Did you see this Drum piece today?

    I understand why reporters don’t like to use the word lie. It’s emotionally charged. You have to be absolutely sure that you’re referring to something that’s flatly, factually wrong, not merely exaggerated or cherry picked. And you have to be sure that the speaker knows he’s telling a lie.

    Those are the rules. They aren’t my rules, but that’s neither here nor there. What they mean is that very few statements from politicians qualify as lies.

    But this is the very reason that reporters need to start using it in this campaign. Donald Trump has basically hacked the media, using their own customs and traditions against them. He knows he can say anything he wants and will get away with it because reporters are so loath to call anything a lie.

    (Emphasis added.)

    Of course, Trump’s been doing it since he announced in June 2015. He spent almost nothing on TV ads – the “news” media gave him all the time he could have dreamed of for free.

    I do think that the press may have finally been forced to do more than serve as stenographers in this race when it comes to him. Especially after today – they don’t like being obviously played for chumps. If nothing else, they need to change the story occasionally to keep readers interested, so they’re going to beat up on Donnie for a while before they go back to beating up on Hillary…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  143. 143
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: No worries, I wasn’t upset. Every dime I’ve made in the past decade come from Federal taxpayer dollars. A lot of that went into training me to be able to do the work I do. Being able to apply that in a way that helps make issues of security, defense, and foreign policy and strategy more accessible is an appropriate way to pay some of that back.

  144. 144
    chopper says:

    To reiterate: NOTHING will change until TV cameras stop covering Trump blindly and take a stand in solidarity..

    ♩ ♪ just don’t look, just don’t look. ♩ ♪

  145. 145
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: If you’re referring to Virginia, then you’re most likely right. I’d have to go back and look it up. And the only thing I’m contemplating is going and scooping myself some ice cream.

  146. 146
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @bluehill: Victoria BC is wonderful. We stayed out there for a week or so a few years ago. One B&B we were in didn’t have any screens on the windows – “we don’t have flies out here”. It’s hard to believe, but there really didn’t seem to be a need for them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  147. 147
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @seaboogie: It depends on the situation. If you only have one person doing body work it will depend on the situation where the protector positions him or herself.

  148. 148
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Vanilla with a couple of shots of rum or brandy poured over it is quite nice.

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: That’s good Q! I’ve eaten there.

  150. 150
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    Thanks! I remembered to bookmark it this time.

  151. 151
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think I have cappuccino fudge blitz and mint moose tracks. I wouldn’t mix them.

  152. 152
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I have no ice cream at all. If I have it, I eat it. I don’t need to eat it.

  153. 153
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I’ve been to Victoria twice, but only for a few days each time. Really charming little city.

  154. 154
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, one of Jefferson’s proposed provisions for the VA constitution.

  155. 155
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Vanilla with a couple of shots of rum or brandy poured over it is quite nice.

    Or any liqueur.

  156. 156
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Regnad Kcin:

    I’ve been reading about the British Georgian period lately, which was culturally pretty similar to the US at the time (which makes sense since the vast majority of American colonists at the time were from Great Britain). Those people had no shame and didn’t care who knew it.

  157. 157
    bluehill says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I didn’t. Thanks. Drum is dead on. Describing Trump’s lies in euphemistic terms make them seems less serious and therefore they become easier to compare to the misleading statements other candidates make. Maybe there’s an assumption that most candidates would be too risk-averse to tell outright lies because of the negative publicity if they were caught, but what happens when someone figures out that the media is too risk-averse to claim that someone is lying.

  158. 158
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I do like Victoria, but it can’t match Vancouver. It is a nearly perfect city. Everything one would want in an urban environment with every outdoorsy thing you could imagine within easy reach.

  159. 159
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The best ice cream I ever had in my life was in Edinburgh, 1959, at the Cadbury’s on Prince’s Street (long defunct, sadly). They had a really sharp ginger ice cream which they served with a really rich hot fudge. The sundae was called a “Hot and Freezing,” and these 57 years later, I’ve never forgotten the wonderfulness.

  160. 160
    bluehill says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Really enjoyed Victoria too. Big plus for me is that they seem to high microbrewery per capita ratio!

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: This is one of the problems with ice cream.

  162. 162
    jonas says:

    @Dog Dawg Damn: 1)

    Advocates torture

    2) Advocates war crimes (multiple varieties and instances)

    3) Admires dictators, not democratically elected leaders

    Unfortunately, so do significant pluralities of the American public. Shit, Trump’s pulling even with HRC at 40-45% of the electorate right now. If you really polled people about what they’d countenance in war or similar contexts, you’d reach the awful conclusion that we need to dig up a number of the Nuremberg/Japan Trial defendants and offer them an apology.

  163. 163
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sounds wonderful. My last year in St. Andrews I lived on South Street, just as it straightened out from the curve where the cathedral had once been. The all night bakery was across the street and half a block up, the ice creamery was 1/2 block east. The Indian restaurant was 1/2 block down from that. I’m amazed I didn’t gain 300 lbs that year.

  164. 164
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @bluehill:

    it really is a beautiful part of the world

    Ah, Vancouver, where if you’re really really lucky you might find a house worth living in for under $1 million. Maybe.

  165. 165
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Ah, Vancouver, where if you’re really really lucky you might find a house worth living in for under $1 million. Maybe.

    So it’s like living in LA, only colder in the winter.

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jonas: We are a very aged revolutionary society. It is not a good thing that we have never completely advanced beyond the revolutionary part.

  167. 167
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: The British upper class was probably more libertine than the middle. And no one really tracked the lower. The British upper class has always be rather libertine. They had to hide stuff from Vicky, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t going at it like crazed weasels. Churchill’s mum – his younger brother’s true paternity is shady. The Profumo Affair. Oh yeah, the Duchess of Devonshire.

    ETA: We don’t have the same aristo traditions, so I would expect behavior closer to the British middle and upper middle class folks in the US.

  168. 168
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’ve only been to the airport in Vancouver, when I dropped the gf and her roommate of for their flight to Malaysia back in grad school.

  169. 169
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Most of my meals in St Andrews were in the dorm (Hamilton Hall), so I didn’t have a lot of opportunity to check out bakeries and creameries, let alone Indian restaurants, although I do remember a wonderful tearoom, straight out of Josephine Tey or Agatha Christie or Dorothy L. Sayers. I can’t recall its name, but I could walk to it blindfolded. One weekend I was whisked away to Dundee by friends of friends of friends. I mostly only remember great lashings of whisky from that break.

  170. 170
    RandomMonster says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam, you’re so generous with your replies, truly. Hope you’re not giving away the whole post here in the comments section :-) I’m fascinated by this whole subject matter of local control in early America. Don’t know about your interest in that subject matter pre-revolution and with regard to maritime law… asking solely for a fictional piece I’m writing (which from what I’ve just said makes it sound SO thrilling!). Anyway, you’re just such a great asset to this blog — that needs to be repeated…

  171. 171
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I was originally given a suite in St. Salvatore’s as I was a Bobby Jones Scholar. But I was able to get them to allow me to move into a university owned flat for the equivalent amount – this way I could cook my own meals. The dining hall food was not doing anything for me.

  172. 172
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Somewhere in my collection of books, shelved or boxed, I have a copy of the Anti-Federalist Papers that my dad found at a used books sale and thought I might find interesting.

  173. 173
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @RandomMonster: Thanks. I highly recommend Cornell’s A Well Regulated Militia.
    https://www.amazon.com/Well-Regulated-Militia-Founding-Fathers-Origins/dp/0195341031/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1474086059&sr=1-1&keywords=a+well+regulated+militia

    He’s an actual historian and does a very, very good job recounting this history.

  174. 174
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    The corporate media jackals don’t give one shit about Trump’s lies and today’s circus is proof. They are finally calling him out because, like everyone else cozying up to Trump, they got played. If the Villagers hate anything it is to be made to look like fools. THAT is the only reason you are seeing Trump get called out. I’ll take it, but I am under no illusions that they have suddenly decided to actually commit journalism. If this lasts until Tuesday I will be pleasantly surprised as most of these people not even a scintilla of courage.

    @Adam L Silverman: Vermont’s state constitution guarantees the right to bear arms and it has been interpreted by the state courts too include open and concealed carry. In other words you need no special permit for concealed carry. They are ranked #2 behind only Virginia for best state firearms laws by the NRA.

    In any discussion of the 2nd Amendment one must include the racist component of the laws. In slave states most militias were primarily used to gather an armed group of white men to capture and return escaped humans beings like they were runaway livestock. Without fully acknowledging this aspect of history and how the 2nd amendment came to be sacrosanct as a means of individual protection the discussion cannot be complete.

  175. 175
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have a copy from grad school. Its interesting reading. I don’t agree with a lot of it, and I certainly do think that most of it really doesn’t make sense outside of the time period. The concerns they had just don’t make sense for a continent spanning, industrial/post-industrial, society of 350 million citizens in the 21st Century.

  176. 176
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Oh yeah, the Duchess of Devonshire.

    The Duchess of Devonshire was definitely of the Georgian period — born in 1757.

    The way I’ve generally seen sociologists frame it is that the lower and upper classes pretty much did what they wanted in the Georgian period (which also encompasses the Regency Era and doesn’t end until George IV’s death or William IV’s death, depending on who’s drawing the line), and the whole Victorian age was about getting the upper and lower classes to adopt middle-class values, at least in public. Now, of course, you have the heir to the throne married to a middle-class (though very rich) young woman.

    There’s an interesting-sounding new book out about how George III (Victoria’s grandfather) tried to create a “middle-class” type of family but unfortunately screwed his kids up in a major way.

  177. 177
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Also, too, one thing casually mentioned in a book I’ve been reading: Americans adopted birth control long before the British did, particularly the upper classes. Upper-class Brits were still having 6 or 8 or 10 children when the upper classes in the rest of Europe (particularly France) had already reduced their family size to 3 or 4. I haven’t found another reference to that, but it’s an easy thing to gauge when one country has much larger family sizes than another. Americans in the same period had family sizes more similar to the rest of Europe, not Great Britain, which is indicative of them using various methods of birth control.

  178. 178
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur: Without a doubt, the origins of gun control in the US had much to do with control of the African and then African American slaves and prevention of a slave revolt. It also had, in some places, something to do with what we would think of as class control as well as attempts were made, though usually unsuccessfully, to limit the right to property owners.

    It is part of the complex, twisted (and by that I don’t necessarily mean wickedly bent), and tangled history of the amendment and its history. And it complicates the discussion of modern/contemporary restrictions. Moreover, the inequitable way in which firearm laws get applied, for instance its legal to open carry in Ohio, yet Tamir Rice and John Crawford were shot for, essentially, open carrying a toy and a BB gun/airsoft rifle and not doing so in anything approaching a threatening manner.

  179. 179
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: I am not disagreeing with you about British aristos. I was just suggesting that their behavior was probably not the cultural model for early US behavior. The standards of the British middle class were probably more prevalent.

  180. 180

    @Dog Dawg Damn:
    Because as little as the American electorate doesn’t care about racism that doesn’t affect them, they really don’t care about torture that doesn’t affect them.

  181. 181
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yes, but even the Puritans were much more bawdy than a lot of people realize. Many people look at the Victorians and project backwards, assuming that the Puritans must have been even more strait-laced, when it’s incorrect. The Victorians on both sides of the Atlantic were much more prudish than the generations that came before them.

  182. 182
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: I have a history here of posting that the Puritans were sex positive. There is even evidence that a Massachusetts court fined a dude for not performing his “marital duties” well and often enough. There was a pre=Victorian belief that lack or orgasm on both sides would prevent conception. So a dude had a responsibility to do well if he wanted heirs.

  183. 183
    Mnemosyne says:

    @RandomMonster:

    I just bought a book used that you might be interested in for your book: Liberty on the Waterfront: American Maritime Culture in the Age of Revolution by Paul A. Gilje. I can’t remember if I got it from Amazon or Better World Books (I went on kind of a spree). I really only need it for background since my book takes place in England for the most part.

    If you spot anything good about shipbuilding that’s not primarily about Massachusetts, let me know. It’s turned out to be kind of a pain in the ass to research places other than Mass that did shipbuilding, especially if you’re non-technical like me. I’ve ended up reading children’s books just so I don’t get drowned in detail.

  184. 184
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m knee-deep in research right now, so I will probably be very annoying on the subject of late Georgians and the Regency Era for quite some time. Philadelphian Benjamin Silliman’s journal of his travels to England has some really fascinating information about the differences between American and British culture. Trivia bit: he was constantly being mistaken for a Londoner outside of London because that’s what his American accent sounded most like to Brits.

  185. 185
    Anoniminous says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Philadelphia Port of History, 1609-1837. Chandler, Charles Lyon, Marion V. Brewington, and Edgar P. Richardson. Philadelphia: Philadelphia Maritime Museum, 1976.

    And an e-book To Commit Ourselves to Our Own Ingenuity

  186. 186
    jl says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur: Trump and the media: yeah, I was just thinking about how much of the outrage today may be due to Trump breaking press pool rules, and turning his news event into an infomercial for one his hotels. But it was pretty offensive. I read that the Trump goons got physical with a producer to pull off their stunt, so this episode will leave a mark, one hopes, even on sniveling corporate hacks.

    Slave patrols and 2nd amendment: Good point too. I think this was openly discussed in the South. There were arguments like ‘Hey we need that second amendment, or the feds will come in and disarm our slave patrols. If you think they won’t do it, you’re nuts. Read the damn thing, the power is there without the 2nd amendment, and they will use it. Then what will we do without our slave patrols?’

  187. 187
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Awesome — thank you! Those will be very helpful. I keep bouncing between having my hero be from Philadelphia or Baltimore, but it’s easier to avoid the slavery issue from Philadelphia.

  188. 188
  189. 189
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: I am not arguing with you.

  190. 190
    shomi says:

    None of this matters because….Al Gore. So all hope is lost for Hillary winning.

    This is what I learned by reading Ball Juice comments. And no I am not talking about the trolls trying to bait all you pantswetters and often succeeding. You two deserve each other.

  191. 191
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    Yeah, but I’m really trying to stay away from the issue of my hero building slave ships. That’s just a little too squicky for an escapist novel.

    ETA: Though it would help explain why he’s willing to leave America and settle in England permanently.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Then we’re even, because I’m not arguing with you, either.

  192. 192
    James E Powell says:

    @Old Dan and Little Anne:

    He was so proud that Conway was on and let her rant for minutes on end with very little pushback.

    That’s pretty much Maher’s MO. Anyone concerned about this should factor in that almost no one watches Maher and of those who do, almost none of them are movable voters.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: In many parts of the south the African and African American slave populations outnumbered the white population by significant amounts. In some places up to 2/3rds.

  194. 194
    Anoniminous says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You are welcome but … um

    Cannot get away from slavery in the colonial period.

    Just as we cannot get away from the continuing affects of slavery – a different topic.

  195. 195
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @shomi: Asshole, at least read the threads. Or get help. On second thought, get help. derf, carrying that kind of anger and rage from day to day isn’t healthy. I say this as someone who thinks Hils has got this and always has.

  196. 196
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Yeah, slavery definitely going to be part of a subplot in the book and be a factor in his decision to ultimately stay in England, but I don’t want the hero of a romance novel to be directly involved in the slave trade. These days, that’s like making your hero a child molester, and rightly so.

    ETA: Also, too, it’s early Republic/Federalist/Napoleonic period, not colonial.

  197. 197
    James E Powell says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Best ice cream I ever had sold for 10 kopeks on the streets of Moscow back in the CCCP days. Most of the available food was pretty bad, so I ate the ice cream quite often.

  198. 198
    Mike J says:

    @Mnemosyne: Many of the slaving ships were built in Mass or England. Many of the ships built in the south were used for cargo, not slaves.

  199. 199
    Kropadope says:

    @shomi:

    None of this matters because….Al Gore. So all hope is lost for Hillary winning.

    This is what I learned by reading Ball Juice comments. And no I am not talking about the trolls trying to bait all you pantswetters and often succeeding. You two deserve each other.

    There are valid elements in here, but perhaps less repetition and more full articulation of your thoughts?

  200. 200
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    Even in the north, they used a lot of slaves to build the ships when slavery was legal in places like Philadelphia. So I’m going to skip South Carolina — sorry!

    (Plus it makes more sense for a French refugee family of the period to settle in Philadelphia, but I don’t want to go into the whole backstory.)

  201. 201
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: Yea! Asshole on Troll. Not sure you’re going to make money on that porn. But best wishes to you.

    Edited.

  202. 202
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @James E Powell:

    Was there a particular flavour that you remember?

  203. 203
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Where exists the line between troll and earnest opposition?

  204. 204
    RandomMonster says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thank you, Mnemosyne! That looks totally interesting and on point.

    I can’t say I’ve researched anything about ship building. While it will not help my non-existent reputation here, I will admit that my interest in the colonial period and maritime stuff has everything to do with piracy. No eye patches and parrots — I’m interested in the historical side of things.

    Whatever you’re researching sounds interesting!

  205. 205
    SgrAstar says:

    @Helen: Helen, I recommend “Touching the Void”, one of the greatest climbing films ever made. Also recounts a true story.

  206. 206
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: You straddle it. You tell me. You say you play with trolling and legit commentary. Tell us where that line is.

  207. 207
    Donalbain says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: That pre Victorian brief that a female orgasm is necessary for fertilisation lives on today. It is effectively the root of the whole “legitimate rape” idea.

  208. 208
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Donalbain: No, it is not. You are daft.

  209. 209
    Mnemosyne says:

    @RandomMonster:

    Don’t forget that, particularly in that period, the only real difference between illegal piracy and patriotic privateering was whether you ended up on the winning side and got someone to sign off on your paperwork.

  210. 210
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I just like to occasionally dance on the other side, I maintain that it was merited. It’s definitely some intersection of not caring what anyone thinks and willingness to not say what I actually believe in the service of pissing people off.

    ETA: Again, we’re talking mainly about a discrete performance piece along with the occasional one-off sardonic remark.

  211. 211
    RandomMonster says:

    @Mnemosyne: Totally! Even non-patriotic (local) self-interest before the Revolutionary War. This was great: Pirate Nests and the Rise of the British Empire, 1570-1740. Totally explains piracy in the most un-Romantic terms. This is admittedly geek territory for certain freaks like yours truly…

  212. 212
    Kropadope says:

    @Donalbain: Man, that just went from something I thought of as being considerate to really dark quite quickly.

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: Say what makes you feel good. Where is the line? We have not been nice enough to you, so you do what?

  214. 214
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Not nice I can handle. Some of you wanted to pretend I was something I wasn’t. I thought it would be fun to play the character.

  215. 215
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: Fine, we now can assume you are playing the character. All the time. It is who you said your are.

  216. 216
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kropadope:

    “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night

  217. 217
    Kropadope says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Omnes Omnibus: I’ve been here nearly a decade and you two are going to be all grudgy about something which I know you know was an isolated incident because you keep calling back to it. ETA God knows you earned it. /ETA By the way, it is not who said I am, it’s you said I am.

    ETA Arguing a viewpoint that isn’t your own is a good way to develop empathy. This was a twofer because not only I get to channel some raw lefty rage, I got to understand what you were calling me when you reacted to me precisely the same way to my more earnest earlier attempts. /ETA You aren’t the thought police, so I would recommend you do as Elsa says.

  218. 218
    Darkrose says:

    @Gravenstone: Many a clusterfuck has begun when an overeager DPS pulled early, says someone who’s done that.

  219. 219
    Barry says:

    @Mnemosyne: BTW, my suggestion for tablet cases is bright colors. Black cases lurk in the shadows like ninjas, as you walk away………

  220. 220
    James E Powell says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Was there a particular flavour that you remember?

    Soviet ice cream was all vanilla. If there were other flavors I never saw it. It was sold in a foil wrapper kind of like a Klondike bar without the chocolate coating.

  221. 221
    Betty says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I have to share that. Really is beautiful.

  222. 222
    frosty says:

    @Mnemosyne: @RandomMonster:

    Totally! Even non-patriotic (local) self-interest before the Revolutionary War. This was great: Pirate Nests and the Rise of the British Empire, 1570-1740. Totally explains piracy in the most un-Romantic terms. This is admittedly geek territory for certain freaks like yours truly…

    I geeked out on Baltimore Clippers years ago and made ships-in-bottles of several of them. A lot of privateers came from the Fells Point shipyards in Baltimore. Unfortunately, so did more than a few slavers.

  223. 223
    The Lodger says:

    @shomi: When the subject is deer droppings, your presence is always on topic.

Comments are closed.