Open Thread: The Daily News Has Been Investigating Trump’s Financials, Too…

Just in time for the 9/11 commemorations! From the NYDN article:

Though the billionaire presidential candidate has repeatedly suggested he got that money for helping others out after the attacks, documents obtained by the Daily News show that Trump’s account was just a huge lie.

Records from the Empire State Development Corp., which administered the recovery program, show that Trump’s company asked for those funds for “rent loss,” “cleanup” and “repair” — not to recuperate money lost in helping people…

“I was happy to do it, and to this day I am still being thanked for the many people I helped. The value of what I did was far greater than the money talked about, much of which was sent automatically to building owners in the area.”

But those comments don’t match the forms Trump’s company submitted to the New York state government requesting the money for his property, the Trump Building at 40 Wall St…

Trump, in the days after the attacks, said that his property “wasn’t affected by what happened to the World Trade Center,” though that was before subsequent shutdowns of the neighborhood and the loss of business activity in the area.

It’s unclear what, if any, help Trump provided to those affected by 9/11…

“Who were the people using the building? Why would they be in 40 Wall St.?” asked Catherine McVay Hughes, a lower Manhattan community organizer who helped grass-roots groups rebuild the neighborhood and currently is chairwoman of Community Board 1.

“It raises the question of what charitable work was done at 40 Wall St. … We’d all like to know.”

Guess that’s why Deadbeat Don was keeping a low profile at Sunday’s event (apart from having convicted felon Bernie Kerik back in his entourage).

196 replies
  1. 1
    amk says:

    AL, typo in title.

  2. 2
    SFAW says:

    not to recuperate money lost

    “Recuperate”? Moron(s)

    Or maybe they were trying to work the “Hillary is in mortal peril from her pneumonia” angle.

  3. 3
    mainmata says:

    There is simply no lowest level of venality and depravity to Trump but because he is so accessible to the media, he gets much, much lighter treatment from the media than Clinton.

    At least the Steelers are looking good tonight.

  4. 4
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @amk: been investigatING.

  5. 5
    Bobby Thomson says:

    At least there’s still a daily in NYC practicing journalism.

  6. 6
    amk says:

    @Bobby Thomson: AL infected with trumpism?

  7. 7
    Helen says:

    I miss Baud. Weird how one (SHUT UP, NOT ME) gets attached.

  8. 8
    Ruckus says:

    I must have missed the bulletin, did Baud go on walkabout?

  9. 9
    tobie says:


    Sorry if this was linked any time earlier during the day. but it’s pretty comprehensive. That the reporter wrote it for a Toronto paper is embarrassing, if our media were capable of embarrassment any more.

    I don’t tweet, so I don’t know how it works, but if there’s a way to tweet the list to Maggie Haberman, one should. What’s the point of her tweet about the three amigos (Trump, Kerik, and Giuliani) in any event?

  10. 10
    geg6 says:


    Where is Baud? He didn’t go GBCW on us, did he?

  11. 11
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:

    @Ruckus, @geg6:

    Not to worry. He announced that he would be traveling and away from the Intertubes for a while.

  12. 12
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    He’s on vacation in Europe (can’t recall which countries he mentioned) for several weeks. Lucky bastard.

  13. 13
    Anne Laurie says:

    @amk: Fixed, thanks!

  14. 14
    Helen says:

    @Ruckus: @geg6:

    I wasn’t sure either. A day or two ago I was like to myself “where’s Baud?” Then a few posts later someone (dunno who) was talking to someone else (yeah dunno who either) said that he needed hisvacation. WHEW. Yes he does. But still. I miss Baud.

  15. 15
    sigaba says:


    He’s on vacation in Europe (can’t recall which countries he mentioned) for several weeks. Lucky bastard.

    Can’t help but wonder the kinds of questions the locals will be asking him about politics back home.

  16. 16
    Ruckus says:

    So walkabout then. Good on him.

  17. 17
    tobie says:

    @efgoldman: Sorry…I was unclear. I saw the list…but I don’t know how to make it show up in the deplorable Maggie Haberman’s feed. I guess she’s have to tweet it herself for it to appear.

  18. 18
    Anne Laurie says:


    What’s the point of her tweet about the three amigos (Trump, Kerik, and Giuliani) in any event?

    Trump was keeping his connections to the renowned NYC Repub grifters on the down-low, during the primaries.

    Now that he’s pretty sure the GOP is stuck with him, he’s letting his freak felon flag fly proudly.

    Deplorably, even!

  19. 19
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    What’s the point of her tweet about the three amigos (Trump, Kerik, and Giuliani) in any event?

    I guess (and it is only a guess) that she was just surprised to see Kerik and Giuliani in the same group. But her tweet comment is the first I had heard that the two hadn’t talked in years — I thought they were BFFs all this time. Is there a good story behind their falling-out?

    And does it mean that Kerik is now also part of the Trump campaign apparatus?

  20. 20
    SFAW says:


    Can’t help but wonder the kinds of questions the locals will be asking him about politics back home.

    I would guess they won’t know he was running.

  21. 21
    tobie says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    he’s letting his freak felon flag fly proudly.

    Deplorably, even!

    The upside of all this is he may start arguing that felons’ voting rights should be restored.

  22. 22
    Oldgold says:

    As has been the case for months, Maddow is brutal tonight. Hard to watch.
    She is bright, but oddly dull.

  23. 23
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    So walkabout then.

    A lengthy and exotic walkabout.

  24. 24
    Helen says:

    @efgoldman: But, but. I was gonna be in the cabinet. HE PROMISED!!

  25. 25
    Renie says:

    As someone who lives in the NYC area and knows people affected by the attacks Trump’s b.s. about it are so insulting, I can’t even come up with a good word. First claiming his building was now the highest after the towers went down, to claiming he was at ground zero helping to taking taxpayer funds for losses meant for small businesses affected. This alone should make all those ‘patriots’ screaming about USA USA decide he is unfit to be president. But I guess being a racist is more important than being patriotic. We need a scorecard to figure out what values these RWNJ think are most important.

  26. 26
    hovercraft says:

    France, Italy, Spain, and Greece.

  27. 27
    SFAW says:


    As has been the case for months, Maddow is brutal tonight. Hard to watch.
    She is bright, but oddly dull.

    Well, I don’t know less about her show tonight than I did before I read that. But it’s close.

  28. 28
    JPL says:

    @efgoldman: I came close to signing up for twitter, but realized that if I couldn’t say something reasonable, it wasn’t worth it.

  29. 29
    SFAW says:


    But I guess being a racist is more important than being patriotic.

    Cue our concern troll (a/k/a Mnemosyne’s new BFF) in … 3 … 2 … 1 ….

  30. 30

    @tobie: yeah, the ‘feed’ you see if you click on a person’s user name is just what they tweet/retweet. You can sort of ‘forward’ a tweet by replying to it and adding their screen name but that’s about as meaningful as sending her an email.

  31. 31
    SFAW says:


    but realized that if I couldn’t say something reasonable …

    … you’d be not unlike 99 percent of the twitter-verse.

  32. 32
    Anne Laurie says:


    I don’t tweet, so I don’t know how it works, but if there’s a way to tweet the list to Maggie Haberman, one should

    The Toronto reporter (Daniel Dale) tweeted out his list when the article was published. I read it on several of the news/political twitter feeds I follow, so if Haberman didn’t read it directly, I’m sure she’s been asked about it by now.

  33. 33
    Mary G says:

    I think the media is rooting for Trump to win, but I go back and forth on how conscious they are of it. Hillz is boring, Donald means major ratings/clicks and always excitement! You think he’s said the stupidest thing ever, then he tops himself!

  34. 34
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:

    Speaking of valued commenters, has anyone seen or heard from PurpleGirl lately?

  35. 35
    Oldgold says:

    She is obsessing over Hillary’s health. Took 40 minutes saying what could have been communicated in 5 minutes.

  36. 36
    Anne Laurie says:


    Can’t help but wonder the kinds of questions the locals will be asking [Baud] about politics back home.

    So was he! — in fact, he was ‘jokingly’ asking for advice on pretending to be a Canadian…

  37. 37
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I was in the car and heard her first ten minutes or so. Bill Daley fainting, GHWBush barfing, something something about FDR. At that point i reached my destination and listened to nothing further. None of what I heard, though, would qualify as “brutal,” so maybe I should’ve sat in the car a while longer.

  38. 38
    SFAW says:

    @Mary G:

    You think he’s said the stupidest thing ever, then he tops himself!

    It’s a variant of “Peak Wingnut”: there is no such thing as “Peak Trump.”

  39. 39
    James E Powell says:


    What’s the point of her tweet about the three amigos (Trump, Kerik, and Giuliani) in any event?

    It’s gossip. It’s silly. It’s like Lindsey Lohan having a drink with a Kardashian. It’s devoid of substance. It’s what Maggie Haberman is all about. And it’s the way the New York Times covers elections.

  40. 40
  41. 41
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: He’s holed up an a Bulgarian monastery, I’ll bet.

  42. 42
    Trentrunner says:

    Well, fuck Rachel Maddow. She’s spent 45 minutes [ETA: 55 minutes and counting] so far on Clinton’s health, and just did the “raises concerns” aria about why Clinton team took SEVEN HOURS to disclose the pneumonia.

    Also, Rachel is LYING saying that Clinton’s syncope episode was due to the pneumonia. Clinton’s doctor SAID in her written statement that Clinton was suffering from dehydration and overheating.

    Rachel’s barely said a word about Trump’s joke of a medical note.

    What is going on?

  43. 43
  44. 44
    FlyingToaster says:

    @sigaba: Baud was going to claim to be from Canada.

    When I was in Europe in 2004, I just told everyone I was from Massachusetts. They understood. Much more savvy than our electorate, alas.

  45. 45
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Can’t help but wonder the kinds of questions the locals will be asking him about politics back home.

    Maybe he’ll pretend to be a Canadian.

  46. 46
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:


    She does that every night.

  47. 47
    mainmata says:

    @efgoldman: Not defending the past personal mores of the Ruthlesshamburger for sure but the team as a whole is looking pretty good both on the ground and in the air (and I actually now live in the DC Metro area). So how is Deflategate-I-love-Trump workin’ out for you? :)

  48. 48
    Tokyokie says:

    @sigaba: This is one of those times an American traveler in Europe would take care to pronounce “out” as “oot” and claim to be Canadian.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    raven says:

    @Oldgold: Isn’t it a bitch that they make you watch it?

  51. 51
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thanks. Sounds lovely, especially this time of year.

  52. 52

    @FlyingToaster: when I was out and about in 2004/2005 I said I was from California or San Francisco.

  53. 53
    amk says:


    What is going on?

    There is no fucking librul media. That’s what is going on.

  54. 54
    Kay says:

    Fox News poll says 60% of respondents believe Trump is hiding something by refusing to release his tax returns. 35% not hiding something.

    Seems like hard info on Trump might draw some eyeballs or clicks or revenue or whatnot. Not completely convinced this is “market-driven”, this exclusive focus on the she-devil.

  55. 55
    MariedeGournay says:

    @Oldgold: Her tendency for excessively embroidering her topic can be annoying.

  56. 56
    FlyingToaster says:

    @mainmata: Pats beat the Cards. Brady was at home playing with Giselle. I think there just isn’t a problem.

    And Goodell is still a moron.

  57. 57
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Juicetariat hive-mind is at full throttle tonight, eh?

  58. 58
    amk says:

    @Anne Laurie: No probs. Just email me my check.

  59. 59
    hovercraft says:

    She is basically saying that because in the past presidents hid serious medical conditions, Hillary must now pull a full McCain, it’s unavoidable. The video means that that she needs to show that she is healthy enough to be president. She cited JFK and his Addison’s disease, FDR who knew he was in heart failure the night before the convention in ’44 and that the doctor saying he would die in office, Eisenhower’s heart attack, hidden strokes, secret cancerous tumor in the mouth removal on a yacht in Long Island Sound. She basically spent most of the show reciting all of the presidential maladies that were kept secret.
    I did not know about all of them so I actually found it interesting.

    EDIT: I do think that she could have been much more succinct, and she is making it seem like this is the more serious than I do.

  60. 60
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That’s SO Baud!

  61. 61
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Hence my guess.

  62. 62

    Trump’s account was just a huge lie

    Wow. A reporter actually used the L word.

  63. 63
    SFAW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    NR (as Steeplejack has already noted).

  64. 64
    Kay says:

    Louisiana Senate candidate and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says he’s pleased that vice presidential nominee Mike Pence declined to call him “deplorable” in an interview on Monday.

    From the Indiana state site:

    Nationally, Indiana was said to have the most powerful Ku Klux Klan. Though it counted a high number of members statewide, its importance peaked in the 1924 election of Edward Jackson for governor.

    Until 2016. And Mike Pence.

  65. 65
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Yeah, and it makes me sad. It’s a little bit like the guys in the Stepford Men’s Club have done something to her to make her less her.. I still like her, at least want to like her, but I find her becoming both more corporate and more boring (same thing, really) each time I happen to hear her. Which isn’t all that often.

  66. 66
    mainmata says:

    @hovercraft: And that’s just part of the 20th century never mind the 19th century. For example, in his last year, Mrs. Woodrow Wilson was kinda running the show while he was dying of a stroke.

  67. 67

    @SFAW: ah, I’d been ignoring/gratuitously insulting it and didn’t see that Mnem was getting along with it.

  68. 68
    Tokyokie says:

    @Trentrunner: Actually, the fever associated with pneumonia, as well as a diminished thirst response, can lead to dehydration, which in turn can cause syncope. But your point about the lopsided news treatment of the candidates’ medical conditions is still valid. A slight case of pneumonia is not that big of a deal in a relatively healthy person. If Clinton been a longtime smoker and had COPD and severely diminished lung function and a compromised immune system, then yeah, it would be. And although the right-wingers believe that to be the case with her along with tertiary syphilis, Hansen’s disease, prostate cancer, I doubt that it is.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:


    I liked the metaphor a Tweeter had in the previous thread: if you get in a car with a bunch of racists and misogynists and they drive off a cliff, you’re still in the car with them no matter how many times you protest that you’re carpooling for other reasons.

  70. 70

    @Major Major Major Major: I find that setting the troll filter makes some threads just zip past.

  71. 71
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I was a little bored at work, so I was poking the concern troll with pointy sticks. It passed the time.

  72. 72

    @Iowa Old Lady: yeah, but then I forget to call shomi a shitwaffle.

  73. 73
    Kay says:


    A month ago I would have said Clinton has to do it. Now I’m convinced it won’t make a bit of difference.

    She could have an exam conducted on national television and they would continue to cover this as a scandal. If she does a full disclosure of records she should do it ONLY on behalf of voters. It won’t make a dime’s worth of difference re: the coverage. In fact, I bet they call for an “independent” evaluation if she uses her own physician.

  74. 74

    RIP Monster Neal, August 1994 – 12 September, 2016

    I put her to sleep this evening. I had her for 22 years, almost half of my life. When I got home from work this morning, she was in obvious distress: vocalizing; walking around aimlessly; bumping into things; just turning around in small circles. I knew that this was more serious than the few times recently that she had just looked listless and sick.

    I woke up about 3:15 pm, when she bumped into something. When I looked up, it was the litterbox, and she seemed to be having trouble finding the opening. I waved my hand in front of her face, and got no reaction, leading me to think that she had gone blind, or close to it.

    I took her to the emergency room at the University of Minnesota Small Animal Hospital, and they confirmed that she couldn’t see. All of the symptoms suggested that it was a neurological problem that was causing Monster to be confused and sightless. The vet determined that the problem was probably something in her brain rather than something in the rest of her body. THe four possibilities she listed were inflammation, an infection, a tumor, or a stroke. An MRI to definitiively determine which one would have cost $1,500, so that was right out. There were treatments to try for the first two, but without knowing the cause, it wasn’t likely that they would work. She also said that it would take at least a week to determine whether or not they were working, and quite possibly longer. In the meantime, a 22-year old cat would have been trying to learn how to function while blind, and the long term prognosis wasn’t good regardless.

    So, at 6pm, I had the vet put her to sleep.

    Monster was the first pet that was really, truly “mine” rather than “ours.” My friend and then roommate pulled her out of a tree in October, 1994 and brought her home. He also already had a cat, so she became mine. She was too young to be away from her mother, really, and at first I had to feed her dry kitten food, softened in milk. She fixated on me in the way creatures taken from their mothers too soon tend to, and remained weirdly obsessive about me her whole life. I was the center of the universe to her, proof that we don’t get to choose the center of the universe, as she complained that I sucked at it on a regular basis. Yet, she was stuck with me.

    When people who hadn’t met Monster heard her name, they tended to draw the wrong conclusion. She was always a tiny thing, never in her life weighing more than 6.5 pounds. She didn’t get her name because of her temperment. She got it because, a couple of days after Dave brought her home, I was watching the Dom DeLuise episode of The Muppet Show. There is a sketch in it with DeLuise and three of the monster muppets, and one of the monsters was making facial expressions just like some of the ones this cat kept making.

    She wasn’t especially friendly. She was a diva in all ways, including inducing herself to vomit in order to gain attention. She did her best to rule the household with an iron paw, though the others were confident enough that she wouldn’t hurt them that they enjoyed pushing her buttons.

    At least it was quick. There have been a lot of little things over the past year that indicated that her health was starting to fail. Minor kidney disease. A growth of some sort on her right shoulder. On one occasion, she was vomiting some black substance. Overall, though, her condition was remarkable for a cat that old. Just yesterday, she was active and loudly complaining about the rest of us.

    It was time to ler her go, but I’m going to miss her badly.

  75. 75
    Tokyokie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Hey, I used to hang out with Canuck ex-pats when I lived in Tokyo.

  76. 76

    @Mnemosyne: ah. I believe I called it a piss-soaked shitpantsed concernmongering gadfly that thread. So I’m guilty too.

  77. 77
    Helen says:

    Also, too in 1 hour and 53 minutes it will be my birthday. Guess how old I’ll be. Go on, guess.

    You all said 25. Didn’t ya?

  78. 78
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    I’m so sorry. It’s hard to let them go even when you know it’s time.

  79. 79
    Tazj says:

    Trump stands up for backers even as rally scuffle breaks out
    AP headline

    You know AP, maybe if you and other members of the press were not so obsessed with entitlement reform, the deficit, and covering for ignoramous Republican congressmen, people could have gotten the help from the government they deserve.

  80. 80

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: so sorry to hear that. You did the right thing. Hugs.

  81. 81
    hovercraft says:

    I need to look into presidential maladies, it was interesting. Still think as far as being a political commentary show it was somewhat overwrought. I would like to watch a pbs documentary on the subject, but making it seem like she’s hiding a major medical issue was not necessary. Especially when at the end of the show her medical expert, Dr. Azar said that the symptoms were consistent with what her doctor and the campaign said, and that Hillary’s doctor would not put out false information that could jeopardize her own reputation and professional standing.

  82. 82
    Tokyokie says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Wow. A reporter actually used the L word.

    Somebody called Trump a lesbian?

  83. 83
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Donald Drumpf is NOT a billionaire.

    That’s why he’s not releasing his taxes.

    This is known by ACTUAL billionaires.

    Drumpf is a fraud in every way you can imagine.

  84. 84
    Lizzy L says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m sorry. It’s never easy. She had a good long life with you.

  85. 85
    Keith Earle says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I don’t know. Isn’t this a pretty crucial time for the Baud! 2016 campaign? I don’t think the optics are very good on this. JM2C.

  86. 86
    Jeffro says:

    I am watching Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC and I am thoroughly sickened .. Why are we completely buying into the trump/ Bannon frame of health issues for candidates? Lawrence is going on and on about how presidents can serve even with great health issues and privacy is their right – of course it is.

    Quit wasting time on this and quit focusing on Hillary – Trump is the most corrupt person to run for the presidency in modern American history if not all American history . Let’s see those taxes, let’s hear more about how he scams his own foundation, let’s hear more about the thousands of lawsuits for nonpayment… I know he is trying to reassure the Democratic base here but the Democratic base doesn’t need to be reassured it needs to be fired up !

  87. 87
    Gin & Tonic says:


    I do think that she could have been much more succinct

    You can say that five nights a week, 52 weeks a year.

  88. 88
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: 22 years is a long, noble age for a cat. Kudos to you for taking such good care of your dear companion. It’s always hard, no matter what age – however long we get with our animal friends, it’s never long enough. Virtual hugs to you.

    ETA: And believe me when I say, I know a lot about the joys and sorrows of loving a difficult, but beautiful, feline soul. “Bitchy kitties”, if you will.

  89. 89
    🚸 Martin says:

    Dear all media,

    I don’t care if Clinton is dying or not as far as my voting behavior is concerned. If she should die, my 2nd choice, hands down, would be Tim Kaine. That’s true for 100% of Clinton voters. Nobody would choose Trump instead. Please stop talking about it, it’s not a political story.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    In “how was your day?” news, G got to listen to someone bitch for about 15 minutes because a library in the metro area originally known as El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula had library card applications in Spanish. Because it’s just so bizarre that an area originally invaded settled by Spaniards still has Spanish speakers living in it.

    He had to just nod and smile until the guy finally ran down.

  91. 91
    p.a. says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Why, does baud look like this?

  92. 92
    Kay says:


    I’m not worried about “transparency” or “optics”- I’m worried about her health. Not because I’m a kind and caring person, but because I’m afraid she’ll be too exhausted to run the rest of this campaign with this illness and they’ll somehow drag Trump over the finish line. I hope she’s okay in the same way I hope the pilot of a plane is okay- so she can land this thing or we all spiral into the ocean.

  93. 93
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Helen: We all miss Baud.

    Why of course, I wouldn’t have *dreamed* you were a day over 25! or 26. : )

  94. 94
    opiejeanne says:

    @FlyingToaster: Ha! The three times I’ve been in Europe we were asked very hesitantly if we were Americans. They weren’t sure because they said we were very polite. (Ugh. We saw very little of the Ugly American, but that’s what people remember)
    We told them we were from California and they lit up all smiles. They were eager to tell us how much they love our president Obama, all except for one guy in Paris but he was a fan of O’Reilly and LePen.
    We saw Ugly Tourists from other countries, which surprised us a little.

  95. 95
    Helen says:

    @Miss Bianca: Thank you darling. I love you, too!

  96. 96
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    Sorry for your loss. My condolences.

  97. 97
    RaflW says:

    I feel like I’m watching the NY Times disintegrate in front of my eyes. Four front page stories on Clinton’s health, and other than a related piece on Trump reacting to Clinton’s health, its as if the Trump campaign did nothing today.

    If it wasn’t for Tom Levenson on twitter, I’d wonder if I was having a breakdown. But he’s on it, thank pasta.

    It weirdly reminds me of The Times in the run-up to Iraq. They later apologized, but of course the massive damage had already been done. They seem to have learned little, so the apology seems kinda useless now.

  98. 98
    hovercraft says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
    I’m sorry for your loss. Sounds like she led a full and happy life.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Tazj says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m so sorry about your kitty.

  101. 101
    opiejeanne says:

    @Tokyokie: And pernounce (sic) it Tuhronnoh.

  102. 102
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Tokyokie: Wa-ha-HA!

  103. 103
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    Yes, it was time, and 22 is a wonderful age for a cat, but of course she leaves a huge hole in your heart.

    Monster, the second you finish climbing that Rainbow Bridge, there will be cream in the Milky Way just for you. R.I.P., and come back in the next of your lives to someone who will love you the way TTP did.

  104. 104
    Kay says:


    It’s particularly amazing when you realize it’s *technically* two NY candidates. Good Lord. You’d think they’d start with a real advantage on Donald Trump.

  105. 105
    RaflW says:

    When Clinton goes back on the trail in a few days, she needs to HAMMER the GOP for their opposition to paid sick time. What happened to her was of course quite voluntary, but she can so clearly make the parallel to all the folks who show up sick to work and make themselves (and often their guests/customers/co-workers) worse off.

    Go get ’em Hillz.

  106. 106
    SFAW says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Mnem was getting along with it.

    In much the same way that Hedy Hedley Lamarr got along with Taggart.

  107. 107
    SFAW says:


    Somebody called Trump a lesbian?

    Why do you think he vacations in Beirut?

  108. 108
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I’m not surprised. A lot of Canadians work in or retire to Japan, HK, Vietnam, Oz, NZ. One of my former Senior Trade Commissioners, after 25 years in the Foreign Service, quit his job, upped sticks and moved to Taiwan.

  109. 109
    Anne Laurie says:

    @amk: Just as soon as that cheap bastid Cole catches up on my last seven years’ back pay, I will!

  110. 110
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Helen was my grandmother’s name. She was born in 1892. I figure you’re pretty old.

    (Have a happy!!)

  111. 111
    debit says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I am so sorry. 22 years is a good long run, but that doesn’t lessen the pain of her loss.

  112. 112
    Aleta says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m sorry for your loss. A very old one I had rescued had one stroke, some blindness, did not die. The second stroke was very painful, confusing for her, long. I believe you’ve protected your cat from that distress.

  113. 113
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SFAW: I was thinking the dynamic was more like Hedley Lamarr and the Governor, myself,

  114. 114
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: My condolences. You must’ve being treating her well, because 22 years is a damn fine lifespan even for an indoors cat. Of course, that means you have all those extra shared memories…

    As Joe Biden says, May the day soon come when her memory brings a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eyes!

  115. 115
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Condolences.

  116. 116
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Keith Earle:

    I don’t know. Isn’t this a pretty crucial time for the Baud! 2016 campaign? I don’t think the optics are very good on this.

    He’s going to be hanging out with all them furriners with their fancy Europeen cultcher and stuff. At this very moment he’s probably learning how to turn a fainting syncope seizure lurching palsied Parkinson’s MS stumble into a graceful “I totally meant it to look like that” dance move. So very Baud.

  117. 117
    Ruckus says:

    You don’t need a scorecard. You stated it yourself, RACISM.
    That’s it, that’s all of it. Trump speaks to them, because he doesn’t hide it in bullshit, he comes right out with it. It’s the reason so many are appalled with him, it’s out in the open or they are the ones who didn’t know the original codewords in the first place. His supporters, RACISTS. There is no other reason to support him.

  118. 118
    Aleta says:

    @Ruckus: Something about a meetup with his spirit animal.

  119. 119
    opiejeanne says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m so sorry to hear about your Monster kitty. 22 years is a good long run.

  120. 120
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    “Think of your secretary …”

  121. 121
    amk says:

    @Anne Laurie: deadbeat donnie cole? sigh, guess I will have to just forget it.

  122. 122
    Waynski says:

    @Renie: As a New York native and area resident meself, it makes me want to vomit every time I hear that he’s the Republican nominee. When President Obama called him a carnival barker, he was being kind. I grew up with this jack ass/con artist infiltrating the airwaves. The rest of the country should take note that there is no way in hell he will ever win his home state. We know who he is.

  123. 123
    mainmata says:

    @Anne Laurie: We had a cat (a tabby) that died at 22 and in her last year she was still trying to climb trees like she always had (but failing). She was a real fighter.

  124. 124
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, dear. OH. DEAR!

  125. 125
    James E Powell says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    Sorry for your loss. Our hearts go out to you.

  126. 126
    mainmata says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Not necessarily that old. Irish immigrants often married later. My paternal grandmother was born in 1885 and I’m just a young ’60s. :)

  127. 127
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Helen: I always guess 23 with women.

  128. 128
    Jeffro says:


    I’m not worried about “transparency” or “optics”- I’m worried about her health. Not because I’m a kind and caring person, but because I’m afraid she’ll be too exhausted to run the rest of this campaign with this illness and they’ll somehow drag Trump over the finish line. I hope she’s okay in the same way I hope the pilot of a plane is okay- so she can land this thing or we all spiral into the ocean.

    I hear you and I’m also concerned for her, for her own sake. But I’m also a big believer – and it sure seems to me like Secretary Clinton would be on board with this – that the cause is bigger than the person. That’s operative whether she continues, drops out, does fine, has worse health, etc. I’m excited to vote for her, but I’d GOTV just as passionately if it were Kaine, Biden, Sanders, or Warren up there in her place.

    It’s not worth trying to guess what the media will or won’t do from here on out, whether they’ll try to make her health a Big Deal or not (among so many other things…we are playing by ‘Clinton Rules’, after all, which are a much higher standard than Dems are held to, which is of course higher than any GOP official is ever held to). I just know that if we commit to the D ticket, the party, those values, and GOTV like crazy, that’s the best we can do.

  129. 129
    jacy says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    So sorry. No matter how long, it’s never enough time.

  130. 130
  131. 131
    SWMBO says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Heartfelt condolences. It is never easy and it hurts like hell. If I can offer some advice, you should follow Cole’s lead and get another kitty soon. You will always love and miss Monster but some other kitty needs you. Hugs.

  132. 132
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    we were asked very hesitantly if we were Americans. They weren’t sure because they said we were very polite.

    Ha! I had a boss once who adored all the clichéd Canadian stereotypes. If he had to reprimand someone, he’d start out “You know I hate to say this because I’m Canadian and we’re nice!” On his desk (this is real) sat two letter trays, one labelled IN and the other labelled OOT.

  133. 133
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Italy, Greece, Spain, and France.

  134. 134
    Helen says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: LOL. I am named after my grandmother. She was born in 1916. Always hated my name. Too old. My godmother was named Bertha. Born in 1913. She died 4 yrs ago, just a few weeks shy of her 99th birthday. When she was born, Bertha was the most common name. I guess I should consider myself lucky. Helen is better than Bertha!

  135. 135
    Lizzy L says:

    A friend of mine posted this on her FB page. I don’t think she would mind if I shared it with you.

    “In an interview this morning, Donald Trump lied about his personal finances, claimed that the Chairman of the Fed was acting in a way to favor one party over another, and demonstrated that he does not understand how the Fed works.

    “Yesterday he claimed that he had worked the pile after 9/11. He did not. Yesterday, on newspaper reported on the corrupt foundation he runs. He bribed the Attorney General of Florida to drop a case against him. He’s being sued for the forcible rape of a minor girl. The models who worked for him say that they were imported on tourist visas and told to lie to immigration. They were held in sweat-shop conditions, and had their wages taken to cover exorbitant rents.

    “But we’re all focused round-the-clock on whether the woman in the race is capable of going back to work after she’s been treated for pneumonia.”

  136. 136
  137. 137
    dww44 says:

    As is their wont these days, MSNBC (thanks to whom?) has as many GOP/conservative guests on as they do Dem/liberal ones. LOD just had Rick Wilson, GOP political consultant, and Charlie Sykes, conservative radio talk host (who is, admittedly, more sane than most others of his ilk) on to talk about Trump’s non-release of his tax returns and claiming that there is more info in the FEC filings than can be gotten from his tax returns …………………..

    Anyways, Sykes says that Trump has transparency issues because of his refusal to release his returns, but that Hillary also has transparency issues…… No rebuttal from anyone. See, this sort of statement is making a false equivalency and his take is allowed to take hold with the viewers. I so hate this. What are her transparency issues, specifically, with her financials? Tell the viewer specifics, not a blanket condemnation that is gonna be accepted as truth by many viewers.

  138. 138
    Smiling Mortician says:

    @sigaba: I just returned from three weeks in Spain. Nobody asked a damned thing about our presidential election. My sense is that everyone there knows exactly how ludicrous it is.

  139. 139
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Helen: Indeed, “Helen” is MUCH better than “Bertha”! Or “Mabel”, or “Gertrude”. Jury is still out on “Beatrice”, which was my great aunt’s first name. My parents opted to christen me with her last name.

    ETA: I think I could have lived with “Beatrice”. She is my favorite Shakespearean heroine, after all…

  140. 140
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Italy, Greece, Spain, and France.

    Wait, what the hell? hovercraft told me it was

    France, Italy, Spain, and Greece.

    Which is it? Now I don’t know what the fuck to believe.

  141. 141
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @JPL: Apparently they’re changing their “character count” on the 19th so that people may actually be able to write a complete sentence while posting a link or a reply.

    It still seems like Drum is right in his Twitter history screenplay even with the proposed changes…


  142. 142
    OGLiberal says:

    @Renie: Not one of the 9/11 fanboys cares about the people who died. Because the people who died, many of them, were Dems, union workers, folks not making crazy Wall Street salaries despite working on Wall Street. They only care about them in the abstract…they care more about tbe race/color/religion of those who killed them than who died. That’s all 9-11 means to them.

    Side note…if some Make America Great Again d-bag heard me yell America Sucks! (Wouldnt, hypothetical) would he want to punch me in the face? If yes, wouldn’t I just be supporting his motivating argument and what his hero wears on that ridiculous hat? (Can somebody please call him on the hat for many reasons?)

  143. 143
    Aleta says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: By the way, the photo you posted this morning was a shade mysterious. And reminded me of photo from a pinhole camera, maybe it was a far away dreaminess.

  144. 144
    Mike in NC says:

    @SWMBO: Agree. We lost a gorgeous 8 year old ragdoll cat in April due to a blood clot in his aorta. We have a 7 year old and now a 6 month old ragdoll, and will adopt another ragdoll in November because we simply love cats. We’re semi-old and retired and have little else to fuss over.

  145. 145
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m almost certain it was Spain, France, Italy, Greece.

    (How could it be otherwise?)

  146. 146
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: The Bulgarian angle.

  147. 147
  148. 148
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    (How could it be otherwise?)

    Well, yeah, if you’re gonna interpret everything through your left-to-right privilege.

  149. 149
    Mike in NC says:

    @Smiling Mortician: We have been to Europe three times in the past six years on cruises and the best thing is to be away from rancid American politics, which generally don’t even register over there.

  150. 150
    🚸 Martin says:

    Pretty much everything wrong with law enforcement in one story.

    We’ve tracked countless cases here where cops were able to keep their jobs after killing unarmed people, killing people after responding to the wrong house, killing people and then lying about it . . . the list goes on.

    Give the Weirton, W.Va., police chief some credit. He’s come up with a new spin on the the same problem. He just fired a cop for not killing someone.

    So, the guy we all want to be a cop is no longer a cop. Good job, chickenshit, blame-everyone America.

  151. 151
    Feathers says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: So sorry to hear. Even when you know it will be sooner rather than later, it is still a shock when it happens. You did the right thing. Somehow it is the cranky ones who are often missed most painfully. As my brother says “It’s that touch of vinegar that makes true love flow smoothly.”

  152. 152
    Splitting Image says:


    It weirdly reminds me of The Times in the run-up to Iraq. They later apologized, but of course the massive damage had already been done. They seem to have learned little, so the apology seems kinda useless now.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing. They’ve been pursuing the emails for years now, even though the entire basis of the “scandal” has been completely debunked. It’s as though they’ve convinced themselves that there must be something there, and if they drag it out long enough, they are bound to find it. This is exactly what they did with “weapons of mass destruction”. During the run-up to the Iraq War they acted as though they weren’t doing their jobs unless they chanted “WMD” day after day after day. When the U.S. invaded and didn’t find anything, it was like “Oops! Our bad.” They haven’t learned a thing.

  153. 153
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Condolences to you. 22 years is an amazingly long time, but I’m sure it makes it even more painful.

    Thanks for posting your touching tribute. You did well and thanks for sharing her with us.

    Best wishes,

  154. 154
    satby says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: What a wonderful long life she had with you! Deepest condolences, she’s going to be missed, but you did right by her in ever way. That’s all they ask, and you have her the love every pet hopes for.

  155. 155
    Helen says:

    @Helen: Also, let me please add for Hillary context. My Grandmother and Godmother, both of whom I (a VERY young person) knew well, were born in a time when women could not vote in these here United States of America. Ponder that.

  156. 156
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Helen: No one ever gets upset. Younger than 23: you are mature. 23-30ish: taken as a compliment. Beyond that: I am obviously bullshitting – and we both know it. OTOH, I have known a lot of very superficial women in my life. My experience may not be universal at all.

  157. 157
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Even for a open thread, this is off-topic, but I’m so physically uncomfortable I have to share. Most, or many, or some, or a few of you know that I had quadruple bypass surgery 15 years ago. It was successful, but of course to get to the heart they have to slice you open from your guggle to your zatch, and the resulting scar is pretty spectacular. I mostly ignore it* and whatever disfigurement there is now is just part of me and the way I look. But for some reason, I suppose something to do with blood flow, the mosquitos are all heading for the scar, so in addition to the lumpy 15″-long incision, I now have a dozen or more welts all along it. The bites will subside if I can keep myself from ripping at them with my fingernails, but right now they are driving me insane. INSANE. I know they’re important to the environment but I really hate mosquitos.

    *(A few years ago I went to a holiday party and wore a fairly low-cut dress, which revealed several inches of scar tissue. Instead of trying to disguise or minimise it, I applied a body adhesive and covered it with glitter.) ☺️

  158. 158
    NoraLenderbee says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I am so sorry. I lost an 18-year-old not long ago whom I acquired under similar circumstances. They leave a special hole in our hearts.

  159. 159
    amk says:

    via gopolitico

    Hillary has suffered from severe hydration on more than one occasion.

    STFU, BILL, you klutz.

  160. 160
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: We report, you decide.

  161. 161
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Aleta: It was a partially successful attempt to photograph the Milky Way from a south facing beach here in LA with a fisheye lens.

    ETA: I showed to the wife this evening and she was impressed.

  162. 162
    NoraLenderbee says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ouch! Sorry. Virtual scratches, if you want them.

  163. 163
    scav says:

    @OGLiberal: Actually, their (the US 9-11 fanboi’s) use of and care for the 9-11 victims is remarkably like those of the guys that brought down the buildings. The victims are useful in the abstract, their deaths are useful as tools to be used for political ends (ends that could very well be antithetical to anything the actual victims may have wished.)

  164. 164
    The Sheriff's Mourning Jim says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m so sorry. D:

  165. 165
    Original Lee says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: So sorry to hear about Monster. You guys had a good run together.

  166. 166
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve used baking soda mixed with a little water and pasted onto mosquito bites (and it works immediately on bee stings) or a spider bite. Or, an aspirin mixed in water. Some people use meat tenderize*r.

    ETA: *I hasten to add, I mean the powder not the sharp clawed metal mallet meat tenderizer

  167. 167
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Yes, a baking soda paste is my go-to soothing remedy for bites. Although for half an hour or so there I was quite ready to take a meat tenderizer mallet to my chest.

  168. 168
    Dog Dawg Damn says:

    @Oldgold: yup. Maddow tonight was major disappointment. So many new Trump revelations, and Maddow wants to talk health and transparency for the whole damn show. Annoying.

  169. 169
    Mary G says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: That is a lovely tribute. My condolences on your loss. I had my last cat 21 years and it’s a big chunk of your life.

    @Helen: Happy Birthday!

  170. 170
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:


    I mean the powder not the sharp clawed metal mallet meat tenderizer

    I’ve had some insect bites where the later was tempting.

  171. 171
  172. 172 says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Sorry about Monster. 22 years is a darned good run for a cat.

  173. 173
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: My NP relative says you can mix a liquid Advil capsule or any other analgesic with some skin cream or aloe. It’s the same thing as the pain reliever creams the doctors suggest for joint pain (which deliver the reielf right to the area w/o going through the stomach).

  174. 174

    @SWMBO: I have two others, Dirk and Harry. I think two is the ideal number to have, especially if they are as close as the two boys are, but three is preferable to one, as I’m gone from the house enough that it is good for them to have each other. So, I might get another cat in the fairly near future in order to avoid going to one; Dirk is 16 or 17 years old and has minor kidney disease, a heart murmur, and has lost weight over the last couple of years. But he’s still functioning, so it might not be a priority yet.

  175. 175
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Wow. 22! An amazing run, an amazing life, little consolation for losing a friend who was a friend for so long! Monster lives on as long as she’s remembered!

  176. 176
    Suzanne says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: I’m so sorry. Hang in there. You did the right thing.

  177. 177
    Aleta says:

    @Helen: Happy Birthday to you! Your present is another free round trip around the sun!

  178. 178
    SWMBO says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: We had 5 dachshunds at one time. As my husband says, very comical when traveling and folks watch you take 5 dogs in and out at a pit stop. In 2010 we were down to 2 on January 1, Missy and Max. In February we added Pixie to the mix.. Max died and we took my sister’s 2 in while she recovered from her husband’s death. Missy died later in that year and we had done a complete pack rollover. When my sister took back Zoe, we kept Gromit. He died in 2013 and Pixie lost her mind. She wasn’t housebroken, she was destructive, she was outrageously obnoxious. Gromit died in December and we got our 3 pups in May. Pixie went back to being the world’s sweetest dog after she got some doggie companions. They do grieve and miss their packmates. If you do find yourself with only one, don’t leave the survivor alone too long. They need their own kind if they bond with others.

  179. 179
    Steeplejack says:


    Happy birthday now!

  180. 180
  181. 181
    🐾BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: My condolences on Monster.

  182. 182
    trollhattan says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
    Awww, damn, so sorry you lost your little monster. :-(

  183. 183
    SFAW says:

    Freulich Geburtstag!

    Or however them Russkies say it.

  184. 184
    SFAW says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    So sorry for you and your little kitty. 22 years is pretty amazing.

  185. 185
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    That’s useful and interesting. Thanks! Filed away for future reference.

  186. 186
    frosty says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: When I was railpassing in ’77 I got so pissed off at Canadians making sure everyone knew they weren’t American that I sewed a US flag onto my backpack.

    I think state flags are a better way to go, especially the interesting ones like Alaska, New Mexico, Maryland, even the California Republic. Nobody knows them and it can start a conversation.

  187. 187

    @SWMBO: When I left for work, Harry hadn’t figured out that Monster was missing yet; he’s not exactly a member of the cognitive elite. Dirk, though, was wandering around looking for her. I think he’s worried about where his daily beatings are going to come from.

  188. 188
    opiejeanne says:

    @Miss Bianca: Hey now, my dear sainted grandma was named Mabel. It’s old fashioned, yes, but she was a cutie as a teenager.

  189. 189
    Anne Laurie says:


    The bites will subside if I can keep myself from ripping at them with my fingernails, but right now they are driving me insane. INSANE.

    OTC oral antihistamines (benadryl) actually helps reduce the itching, which is an allergic reaction. Even if you don’t want to take them when you’re driving, they can help you relax / sleep at night.

    One of the few benefits of the Massachusetts drought this summer has been that there haven’t been many mosquitoes at all — or dog ticks, for that matter. The hellish humidity kept me drained & ruined my poor tomatoes, but skeeter larvae can’t survive without standing water, praise goddess.

    (Of course, it’s possible that the mysterious bird or small mammal that chewed holes in the few fat green tomatoes I did manage to nurture felt the lack of mosquitoes as food. I’ve been able to avoid such depredations for almost 20 years, as long as I kept the ‘chipmunk bath’ saucer full, but this year… ugh.)

  190. 190
    Dee Loralei says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: that was a loving and beautiful tribute to your Monster. I am so sorry for your loss.

  191. 191
    Kathleen says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: So sorry for the loss of your beloved cat. You did the right thing.

  192. 192
    Kathleen says:

    @Helen: Happy Birthday, Helen! My grandmother’s name was Mercedes Helen, but she went by Helen. Born in 1902 in Canada.

  193. 193
    J R in WV says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    So sorry for your loss. 20+ years is a long time to know someone, to have someone be utterly dependent upon your care. I’m sure Monster had a great kittenhood for the vast majority of her 22 years.

    Always the last hardest best thing we can do for them when their body is failing them. And best to not shilly-shally around with it when that time comes. As hard as that is to do!

    ETA speling…

  194. 194
    leeleeFL says:

    @Waynski: I have been telling people this from the beginning. I feel like am trapped in “Gullible’s Travels” People are impossibly easy to fool when their Clinton Hatred or their Taxation Aversion takes control of their minds!

  195. 195
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SWMBO: A few years ago, we went from three cats to one in a shockingly short period of time. I think our remaining one actually liked being the sole cat to some extent: she’d been the smallest and on the bottom of the pecking order before.

    But we are changing that now…

  196. 196
    Marjowil says:

    ” to this day I am still being thanked for the many people I helped. The value of what I did was far greater than the money talked about, much of which was sent automatically to building owners in the area.”

    Who talks like that? Donald Trump. Only.

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