Josh Marshall’s analysis of the Trump madness during this election season has been magnificent, IMO. He hits it out of the park again today with a piece called “Trump’s Blood Libel & Press Failure,” in which he rightly defines Trump’s demonization of undocumented immigrants as hate speech and calls out the Beltway media for normalizing it.
I watched Trump’s speech yesterday and found it incredibly chilling. Like every demagogue before him, Trump set the stage by ginning up hate and fear. He used as props families who have lost loved ones to crimes committed by one class of people — undocumented immigrants — as if that category of human beings were inherently dangerous.
He implied that hordes of rapists and murderers are pouring over our southern border (something he’s said explicitly in the past, as we all know), even though in fact the crime rate for immigrants is lower than that of native-born Americans and border crossings have decreased. And like any tin-pot fascist, Trump identified himself as the only hope for the country’s survival. Marshall:
These families have suffered horribly but no more than the families of victims of American murderers and Americans who committed DUI fatalities. If we went out and found victims who’d suffered grievously at the hands of Jews or blacks and paraded them around the country before angry crowds the wrongness and danger of doing so would be obvious…
There is a legitimate public policy question about how aggressive we should be in deporting those who our laws say should not be in the country in the first place. But the fact that some of them commit crimes is not relevant to the discussion… It is simply blood libel and incitement…
Marshall is right. It’s deeply shameful that such a person could take control of one of our two major political parties, and the yammering about whether his immigration policies are “softening” or “hardening” is disgracefully trivial in the face of creeping fascism and galloping bigotry.
I hope and believe that Trump is going to lose in November, and lose badly enough that it will trigger a reckoning within the Republican Party. It’s long overdue. Even if Trump loses by normal margins, that would still mean the Republican Party has managed to win the popular vote in only one national election since 1988. They need to evolve or die, and we need at least two functioning parties.
But the Republican Party isn’t the only institution that needs a reckoning. There are wonderful reporters out there who do great work, but our institutional political press is so sclerotic and blinkered that they’ve helped an honest-to-Christ white nationalist demagogue in the mold of George Wallace get this close to the presidency without calling him by his proper name.
The GOP voters who elevated this buffoon bear most of the blame, of course. And the conservative movement in general deserves censure for engaging in more “polite” race-baiting for decades. But a gigantic portion of the Beltway media deserves a share of the blame for not calling Trump out for what he is. There should be a reckoning for that too.
Trentrunner
Unmentioned in all the coverage of this speech is that Trump added “child molesters” to his list of “rapists” and “murderers” that are streaming over the border.
But NYT called the speech “audacious” and “spirited,” like it was a dance number choreographed by Michael Kidd.
The MSM coverage this campaign has shown just how fucked we are. (As if Iraq war run-up coverage didn’t already show us.)
But the big story today is the FBI releasing its report on interviewing HRC about the emails or Benghazi or Whitewater or…
scav
mendacious / audacious, and they dropped the mean- from in front of spirited. Must be the usual FYNYTPress and automiscorrect blather.
Gene108
Depending on how you end up in the USA illegally, such as overstaying a visa, deportation is not the penalty for the crime.
Some violations of immigration law are handled administratively. File a form, pay a penalty, leave the country temporarily and in some cases there’s no need to leave, until the visa gets approved.
The problem with nativists is they find the only acceptable is deportation because there’s no way a person, who breaks immigration law should have a means of restitution with the state, unlike other criminals or people, who break the law over little things like parking violations.
Ajabu
Personally, I blame the MSM far more than the Trump voters. The latter are who they are (and always have been) but the media people – theoretically educated & knowledgeable -should – and do – know better. They’re willfully ignoring the obvious for the sake of ratings.
Motherfuckers. They should be held as responsible as the Rethug party.*
* Of course, it was this kind of thinking that got me to move back to the states from the Caribbean when Obama was first elected thinking things would get better.
I’m too old to be this stupid…
Cacti
Yeah, Trump is the leader of a new American fascist movement.
But on the other hand, e-mails.
schrodinger's cat
They are all good Germans, even the NYT.
Elmo
This whole shitshow of an election is such a fundamental test of basic decency that it has completely destroyed any desire I might have had to mend my frayed relationship with two of my brothers. Until this, I was annoyed at right-wing memes on Facebook, mildly hurt that they had declined to attend my (same-sex) wedding and sent only pro forma best wishes, and a little guilty that I generally considered them a little stupid and backward.
Now? They’re both all in for der Trumpenfuhrer – even the one with the mixed race grandson. I’m not annoyed and guilty anymore; I’m disgusted and full of contempt.
I know other people have made this analogy, but damn if I don’t suddenly understand the Kentucky families of 1860. If it came to that with the Trumpenproletariat, I would happily put on the blue uniform and fully expect to see my brothers in gray.
JCJ
@Trentrunner:
Maybe he was referring to priests?
Mike E
This zika biz is creating another kind of reckoning, one that’s pretty grim.
Peale
From our pals at the Boston Globe. Who I assume thought that Trump’s speech was off the cuff and from the hip while Hillary, well, she was just reading something.
Bobby Thomson
The NYT is in the tank for Trump. They have yet to cover his bribing the Florida AG with foundation money to cover up his fraud. That story has everything papers should love. And Booman claims the press has gotten better in the last 15 years. It is to laugh.
OT: couldn’t find a taco truck anywhere for lunch. Settled for gyros.
D58826
And we have a new Clinton ‘scandal’ and fuel for an old one. The FBI has released their investigative notes (or maybe we should call them Comey’s revenge) on the e-mails. The new ‘scandal’ is she does not know what happened to the old blackberries as they were replaced. She did not preserve them in amber for future generations, therefore who knows what Benghazi/Vince Foster secrets have been lost to history.
The rehashed ‘scandal’ involves her health. She said there were a couple of debriefing meetings in 2012 that she does not remember after she got her bell rung. This should play into the ‘walking dead’ story line.
Peale
@JCJ: New England Private Prep school administrators.
Sandia Blanca
Excellent analysis, Betty. One issue that seems glaringly obvious to me, but is rarely mentioned in the press, is that TRUMP MARRIED TWO IMMIGRANTS! And all but one of his kids is a child of an immigrant! All the talk about banning birthright citizenship ignores the fact that Trump’s own father would therefore not have been a citizen.
(And if there were no birthright citizenship, how could ANYONE ever become a citizen? Most of us are citizens by virtue of being born here–if all our ancestors were made citizens by that same measure, then none of us could ever be a citizen.)
Bobby Thomson
@srv: and?
D58826
@Elmo: I finally signed up for FB because my middle niece is expecting and I guess all of the photos will be posted there. Unfortunately it seems that most of my family are Trumpers. It’s a close race between images of :
1. vote for Trump
2. lock her up
3. Obama as some form of lower primate.
I log on as infrequently as possible.
MomSense
@Mike E:
Why on earth would they do that.
Bobby Thomson
@D58826: the unfollow feature is your friend.
raven
@D58826: This is not a function of Facebook, it’s your Facebook friends.
redshirt
There will be no reckoning after Trump loses. In fact, there will be a further push into extremism.
Trump’s loss will help eliminate any pretense of moderation within the Republican party and give further control to the crazies. Who will act ever crazier.
Betty Cracker
@Mike E: That’s awful, not least because bee colonies are already in a lot of trouble.
Cacti
@srv:
That would be the one time.
1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, and 2012 would be the five times that they didn’t.
Kay
Fancy titles this year! :)
He’s the RVPDNWOH
lurker dean
@D58826: i don’t remember the exact mechanism but you can essentially “mute” people on facebook so you never see the stupidity they post. that has saved me a lot of grief, but still allows me to see their page and photos etc if i surf to their page. it also helps to configure your posts (if you post anything) so they aren’t posted to those people, so they don’t see something you post and respond (which you would then see).
Joyce H
@Ajabu:
It can’t just be ratings, because what I find baffling is how they scantly mention and then basically ignore Trump scandals, but spend hours and hours in the weeds about the Clinton Foundation, which is a total nothingburger of a scandal, and really pretty boring.
A good instance is this Trump modeling management story, you’d think that one would pick up a head of steam! Yes, there’s story after story about how Trump shafts workers and profits from it, but this one seems like it’s made for television, because the workers being shafted aren’t just teenage girls, they’re beautiful teenage girls! Why on earth aren’t the networks elbowing one another in the gut in their haste to get to these whistle-blowers and interview them on camera as they describe their exploitation and shed beautiful tears?
Gene108
@Sandia Blanca:
Trump’s mother was born and raised in Scottland. I believe Trump’s paternal grandfather was an immigrant too.
Trump’s not that far removed from the folks, whose live he wants to smash for his politics ambitions.
Iowa Old Lady
Maddow’s analysis of the Whigs and by extension the current Republicans predicted some scary stuff. She said that because we’re in a two-party system, when one party ceases to be able to govern, chaos results. In both the mid-nineteenth century and now, one consequence of the chaos is a resentment of immigrants. They get blamed for the problems because those problems need to be foisted on the Other, not the irresponsible political party.
She didn’t say, but I’ll also point out, that the chaos in the nineteenth-century eventually resulted in civil war.
Mnemosyne
@Mike E:
And, sadly, half the comments on that thread explain why the Republicans keep winning: after all, the government tried to help and screwed it up, so the government should never try to help.
Trollhattan
@srv:
Yo, sparky:
I’m a-skeert.
D58826
@raven: True. In this case family
Jewish Steel
If that is true, then let it be the Democrats and something to the left of Democrats. Conservatism can vanish from the Earth.
NotMax
Lizard people don’t do subtle.
Still dates available on the punchboard for when he peels back the human mask. ;)
Roger Moore
@Sandia Blanca:
You could still become a citizen by becoming naturalized, and your offspring would then be able to inherit your citizenship. What they really mean when they talk about ending “birthright citizenship” is that they want to abolish the 14th Amendment jus solis rule and go to pure jus sanguinis. I’m sure they’d like to apply that rule retroactively, though there would be some kind of grandfather clause to protect the Right People from losing their citizenship.
Peale
@Sandia Blanca: Because they want to be able to control the flow of Democratic voters (and they will vote Democrat because the forces now in charge of the Republican candidate have no interest in Ever, Ever, having to appeal to latino voters.). Hence we have Texas not issuing birth certificates for those people, so when those people turn 18, they’ll have to go to court to prove that they are citizens. It’s a great system. One set of people can just go and register to vote with their drivers license. The other has to sue or at least arrange for a hearing and get a whole bunch of notarized things stamped and triple signed be recognized by the state before they can even get that license.
Archon
The media’s point of view is that Trump might be a Fascist but Hillary won’t do press conferences and she was careless with her emails so they are both awful.
Amir Khalid
@Jewish Steel:
Well, the party to the left of the Democrats should be one whose presidential nominee knows what city her campaign event is in.
Applejinx
Indeed. The Democratic Party needs and by all accounts is getting a reckoning too. Rightly so: when you look at what’s happened to the Republicans and to the press, it’s madness to think the Democrats are unaffected.
It might even be a sort of negative image: what’s being put forth IS a reckoning, in the fresh air of not being pinned down by 1000 pounds of Republican bullshit. Things being proposed now would’ve been unthinkable in 2001. The important thing is, if the Democrats don’t follow through with what’s being promised, they’re most thoroughly fucked. I know I wouldn’t trust them twice, but right now is a real good time to give them a big ol’ chance to come good.
Not like Obama hasn’t already been doing that and more. It’s just that we’re at war with our own institutions.
MattF
I agree that Marshall’s done well– consistently well. Other commentariaticians have been less consistent. I’m somewhat reluctant to name names because of my own obvious biasses, and because what I happen to think doesn’t really matter that much. But Marshall is in the right place at the right time, and is saying the right things.
raven
@D58826: I haven’t communicated with my half brother in 4 years behind that bullshit.
Chyron HR
@Archon:
Since when does the media think Trump is awful?
Jewish Steel
@Amir Khalid: Bah! Not the Greens. At least not the Greens as they are currently constructed. I’m imagining a better left party. Go with me here.
wvng
Betty, I absolutely agree with your comment about Josh Marshall. No one seems to be writing with a better understanding of what motivates Trump (dominance, always dominance) and about the Trump campaign (Trump’s Razor, always choose the stupidest possible explanation for something he has done).
He has been brilliant.
Kay
@Bobby Thomson:
It’s especially odd because they had a report a couple of months ago on that specific subject- state ag’s who are influenced by donors.
Bondi is in the report. They got hundreds of emails. They should know more about it than anyone.
patroclus
Man, I wish I had a taco truck on my corner – here in Chicago, the nearest one I know of is at least a mile away.
NotMax
@Iowa Old Lady
She omitted a lot (for example, the ever growing political and cultural oomph – not to mention also wallets – of the abolitionist societies) in manipulating the concept she was promoting to make a point, including that Lincoln was elected president as a Republican only once. The party split for the election of 1864, and reconciled later on. In 1864, Lincoln won as the candidate of the National Union party.
CONGRATULATIONS!
There’s not going to be any reckoning for those who foisted this orange dingleberry onto the American public.
There surely should be, but we’re no longer capable of that kind of responsible self-governance. We just are not. Go to your local city council or school board meeting. It’s just fucking sad these days. In my neck of the woods, it’s six-figure attorneys with nothing better to do than to ruin local politics squalling about their “rights” – usually to be free of taxation and free of the need to obey local laws and ordinances. Not one word about their responsibilities.
And everyone is this nation is falling down on their responsibilities, but none worse than our so-called media.
I want to move but there’s no place free of this madness and I’m too old to emigrate.
Face
Why do people keep saying this? Ridiculous. Yeah, maybe they suck at getting their president in office, but they own a easy majority of governorships, state legislatures, and will own the US House for many election cycles to come. They’re as close to dead as the Turritopsis dohrnii. They haven’t changed a bit; in fact, they’ve devolved, yet they’ll win re-election all over this nation, perhaps just not the office of President.
? Martin
The Trump racism has been so over the top, we really do need to clearly and unequivocally educate the American people about what effect that can have in a demo… wait, someone just broke information that a person from the Clinton Foundation requested a passport from State, let me write about this for the next 2 days.
Archon
@Chyron HR:
I think the media has been pretty clear in portraying Trump as an awful candidate. The problem is they are portraying Clinton as an awful candidate too, just in different ways. This false equivalency allows voters to basically say to themselves, “they are both awful, but at least Trump represents something different so I’ll vote for him”.
Amir Khalid
@Jewish Steel:
I read a report on the Green party’s recent convention, the one where they nominated Dr Jill Stein. I said to myself, “That’s not a political party, that’s a kindergarten.”
I don’t get it. The Green parties in Europe have been around for decades, they act mostly like grownups, and they get taken seriously enough to consistently win seats in their town councils and national parliaments.
kate p
@lurker dean: You “unfollow” them. They will never know. The annoying posts will no longer show up in your feed but you are still “friends”.
redshirt
@Archon: Both sides!
The Lodger
@scav: You forgot enormous and disembodied.
sukabi
@JCJ: Some people say he probably looked in the mirror and projected.
patroclus
@NotMax: I thought Rachel’s summary was incredibly simplistic and overly repetitive. First, the Know Nothings were called that by their opponents – it wasn’t the name they themselves used, which was the American party (or, as Sam Houston described it, “our American order”). And they weren’t all anti-immigrant like she said – Houston was almost their Presidential candidate and he wasn’t anti-immigrant at all. He was a former Jacksonian Democrat who was very pro-Union and had voted for the various compromises in 1850. There was quite a bit more to the American party than solely being against immigrants and to describe them like that is ahistorical. They were mostly former Whigs but also included Democrats who were similarly conflicted about the issues leading to the Civil War. And most of them ultimately transitioned into Republicans – either directly or via another party – the Constitutional Union party. Rachel’s summary could have been a lot better.
Betty Cracker
@Face: Let me rephrase it: WE (as in Americans, not just libturds) need them to evolve or die. It’s true they do well at the local and state level in many places, but being reduced to a rump party at the national level makes them useless as partners in the important work of federal governance. I suspect it’s a situation that can’t be sustained long term.
JMG
I know that the management of the Boston Globe, under three different sets of owners, has been consistently horrified by its image as a “liberal” paper. In fairness to them, it’s not, it’s a heaping bowl of lukewarm centrist mush with some damn good local and regional reporting on top.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Amir Khalid: Well, that’s Europe. Their voters demand at least an appearance of competence. Our voters don’t know what competence looks like, not from politicians, not from anyone, really.
Every political party in America save for the Dems is run in a fashion that makes one suspect that said party is truly run by a classroom of particularly nasty and mean fourth-graders. And the Dems will be there too, after the Clintons are once again out of office in 4/8 years.
? Martin
@Face: I think you are discounting how quickly a party can fall once they get relegated to regional status. The pace of the collapse of the GOP in CA was astounding and a big part of that was due to the GOP getting relegated to parts of the state that had intense but not widely held positions that they kept doubling down on. Instead of having the voters as the feedback loop to take them to the positions they needed to hold, they relied on talk radio. That’s no different than what is happening now on the right – magnified by the effect of the GOP being driven from their strongest state bases rather than from a national position. Sure, there will be some locations where these views are acceptable or even preferred, but it’s impossible to build a national platform out of Alabama. Even if you are currently holding Texas, you will inevitably lose Texas because the trajectory of Alabama is the outlier here.
Tokyokie
@Roger Moore: When the spousal unit (who’s from the Philippines) was naturalized about 10 years ago, I looked around the room and saw a family of Bosnian Muslims, lots of Latinos and African blacks, as well as a few Chinese and Koreans. And it occurred to me that not one of those newly minted U.S. citizens was a likely Republican voter. Which is why during the Bush administration, the cost of processing all the immigration paperwork grew from $200 to $675. (We got in before the fees were raised because we knew the increase was coming.) It’s pretty much like Republican economic policy: They preach free markets, but what they prefer are rigged markets, and despite their professed love of competition, they want to limit competition as much as possible.
Immanentize
I gotta tell you, Wallace was much smarter.
Jeffro
@lurker dean:
Yes, you can ‘unfollow’ them – still stay friends but not see their posts. (Wish I had known this before I flat-out dropped a few RW acquaintances…then again, no great loss there)
? Martin
@patroclus: That may be true, but the defining characteristic of the party, and indeed their founding principle was the opposition of Catholic immigration. They weren’t founded as the ‘Native American Party’ ironically. The Louisville Riot was a real thing. Here’s Lincoln:
You seem to be overly charitable to the movement relative to someone who was directly engaged with them.
James E Powell
@Face:
What Face just said.
The Republicans are becoming a party that manages to rule the country without winning the White House.
Aleta
Media responsibility hasn’t increased despite what the crimes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rice, and the financial workers have done to millions. Perhaps a mass protest by a million people scheduling a simultaneous cut off of cable service would get attention. (Nothing except a fee prevents people from turning it back on if they need. Perhaps the cable companies would offer some incentive deals if they lost so many subscribers at once.)
Jeffro
@Jewish Steel:
Yes…people don’t often think about it that way, but it really should be part of the discussion: it doesn’t have to be sensible Dems and frothing TeaPartyers for ever and ever, amen.
louc
@D58826:
I have plenty of those relatives too. What I do is “hide” particular posts (click on the downward arrow at the top righthand of the post) and also indicate to Facebook I don’t want any posts that come from, for example, the Conservative Post. Or Fox News. Or Breibart. Or World Nuts Daily.
It works like a charm usually. I see pretty sunset pictures from one aunt, and pictures of her kids and grandkids from another. Occasionally Facebook develops amnesia and I have to do it again. I never see anything now from my mother and that’s sad.
Major Major Major Major
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Er, why?
geg6
My fondest hope is that, along with Trump flaming out in November, there is some sort of reckoning among the MSM. I am not as generous to them as you are, Betty. I place the largest blame on them for the lying, exaggerating and false equivalence they have done over the last forty years or so, so much so as to normalize the fascistic, greedy and bigoted behavior of the Republicans going back to Reagan. They are given special rights and protections by the Constitution in order to keep our government honest and citizens informed. Instead, they have decided that their most important mission is to toady up to power, align themselves with those in power and with money and social cache and only tell the stories that keep them in good graces with their masters, who all, by some huge coincidence, are all Republicans. If it wasn’t for people on the internet, like JMM and James Fallows and others, we would have no idea what is really happening half the time.
I hate the MSM more than I hate anyone or anything in this entire world. They are more destructive, mendacious and dishonest than anyone else and they create and maintain the monsters that have sprung up due to their cultivation. May they all die painful, lonely and prolonged deaths, unloved and unmourned.
Peale
@Amir Khalid: The Green parties in Europe when they evolved could draw their members and voters from a wide variety of other parties. In the US they are competing for voters with Democrats. I guess they might also be trying to draw in members who’d vote for the Socialist Workers Party, but there isn’t a huge swath of “Labor-Left” or “Socialists” party voters to steal from. So they have to run against Democrats and are just a repository for Non-Democrats. Its hard to carve out an identity as standing for something different when you just come off as “Angry at Democrats. That’s what we are. Angry At Democrats.”
sunny raines
people who say this kind of thing apparently think our major political parties are entities unto themselves distinct from the people who associate themselves with them by declaring they are part of the party and perform whatever functions they feel like to further the cause they identify with. Political parties ARE the people associating with them.
What is deeply shameful is that America as a society has spawned millions of violent, ignorant, hateful people identifying with and supporting the horrors of trump. trump and his supporters ARE today’s republican party – they haven’t taken control of anything – they are it.
Felonius Monk
Maybe we could start with the “Tumbrels4Todd” & “Tumbrels4Mitchell” projects. Seems to me like a good way to get the party rolling while the guillotine blades are being honed to a razor edge.
SFAW
@Peale:
No surprise — the Glob stopped being a liberal paper about 3 months after John Henry completed his purchase. It’s why I killed our subscription.
Major Major Major Major
@geg6: I think it really is sort of a Hunger Games thing. They honestly don’t know. Like the other month when Ezra Klein was shocked to realize that Hillary Clinton is human. It honestly never crossed his mind that her caricature wasn’t accurate. Or that the caricature of Trump, was. Now he’s appropriately scared.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
The same John Henry who owns Liverpool FC? I am disappoint.
Betty Cracker
@sunny raines: I guess you missed this part: “The GOP voters who elevated this buffoon bear most of the blame, of course.” The whole final paragraph, even…
? Martin
@James E Powell: That is not sustainable. You can only gerrymander and vote suppress so much. Eventually demographics will prove too strong to overcome.
Now, that’s not necessarily a death sentence provided you don’t demonize the growing demographic groups. That was the problem the CA GOP ran into. It wasn’t a problem that they had economic policies that latinos disliked – if they fell out of power they could always change up their policies and win the latinos back. The problem the GOP ran into was making latinos into the enemy. After that it didn’t matter what policies they adopted, the latinos would view the GOP as the enemy.
Now in Alabama nobody may fucking care about the feelings of the latinos, but you hope over a few state lines and suddenly it’s a real problem. The CA GOP has to answer to the kinds of things being said by the AZ GOP or the AL GOP, and if you have national leaders that are taking that regional message to the national stage, then you’ve got some really big problems. Sure, you may keep control of Alabama, but once the national party falls out of favor and the money stops flowing, the regional power base ends up starved for resources to grow. They just wither.
The GOP appears much stronger than it is. The desperation of their voter ID bills is clear. They’re calling for clearly unconstitutional efforts to reapportion and restrict votes. It’s not even whispered ideas – they are against a wall, and they know they are against a wall. It’s Democrats and political reporters who fail to recognize it.
Turgidson
Since this thread is about how shitty the media is, I’ll point out that the King of the BothSides4Ever Magical Kingdom, Ron Fournier, wrote an utterly hilarious “Do as I Say, Not as I Do/Did” farewell-to-journalism address for the Atlantic. He even says at one point “don’t reach for balance or equivalence when there is none.” Ron Fucking Fournier wrote that. And as far as I know, he didn’t spontaneously combust immediately after completing the sentence.
Elsewhere he writes: “A reporter’s job is to get as close to the truth as possible, overriding personal biases and sifting through a rising churn of spin and lies to explain what happened and why it matters.” Again. Ron f’ing Fournier wrote that. I’d let it pass if he opened with the disclaimer that he has not been employed as a “reporter” for many years, but rather as a pundit, so he has not been following his own rules of reporting. But he didn’t say that.
Another fun nugget: “If you can show the deception is intentional, tell your audience, “The president lied.” He left out the obvious follow-up “but only if the president is a Democrat. Republicans never, ever lie. At worst, they inadvertently mislead and are deeply sorry for doing so. And if the president is Hillary Clinton, always assume she lied, and say so repeatedly, without evidence. No need to verify.”
One more: “The way to advance in journalism is to be distinctive, which means telling stories that nobody else is telling, which starts by asking questions nobody else is asking, which can only be done if you ignore the convention wisdom and group think, which takes guts. ” Strangely he didn’t follow this up with a bunch of chest-thumping about how much of a pioneer he was for attributing every problem in the USA to President Obama’s failure to lead like a leaderly leader with leadership qualities would lead. Strange omission.
Ron, how can we miss you, if you won’t just go the fuck away already?
SFAW
@Immanentize:
And had a lot more self-control.
And (probably) wasn’t a/an (borderline) incestuous pedophile.
And wasn’t a grifting businessman.
And didn’t (falsely) claim to be a billionaire
And (probably) didn’t have his name on a Foundation which broke campaign laws.
And so on
debbie
Talk about an amateur hour!
redshirt
Reading this thread it occurs to me that the same thing that’s happening to Republicans (becoming more extreme as their base shrinks) is happening to the media (becoming more extreme as revenues/circulation/relevancy shrinks).
James E Powell
Trump’s media savvy is overrated. He is really pretty clumsy and inarticulate; many in the press/media are more than happy to expose his negative side. But Trump knows this: deep down in places they don’t talk about at parties, they want him on TV, they need him on TV.
Telling the truth about Trump will destroy his campaign but the press/media will never do anything to destroy his campaign. They know this and Trump knows this. So he can pretty much say and do whatever. Tomorrow he’s still the Republican nominee running against Hillary Clinton. And they still do not like Hillary Clinton.
jl
@sunny raines:
” What is deeply shameful is that America as a society has spawned millions of violent, ignorant, hateful people identifying with and supporting the horrors of trump. ”
It is shameful. But I think it is only partially a spontaneous expression of American society. The white bigotry and fear has been carefully cultivated by cynical political manipulators in the GOP and their allies (or now, overlords?) in right wing media. And abetted by a corrupt corporate media.
Edit: heard a news report of polling that 77 percent of US voting population completely disagrees with Trump approach to immigration. IIRC, < 20 percent agrees. So we have a desperate minority with disproportional influence on national and some state politics. A problem with Trump is that he is so open about the GOP subtexts, that when most people realize the implications, they walk away.
SFAW
@Turgidson:
Well, if he needs help, I’m happy to supply the gasoline and matches.
Trentrunner
@Turgidson: Didn’t Fournier also suck Rove’s dick for years? (Metaphorically, of course. Actual pole-smoking is awesome and should be enjoyed by consenting adults whenever possible.)
Hillary Rettig
@Tokyokie: >Which is why during the Bush administration, the cost of processing all the immigration paperwork grew from $200 to $675.
Which, btw, was a huge hardship to my refugee kids (Sudan) and all other refugees, as well as probably many others. Imagine trying to bring a family of four over from a country whose per capita income is a few hundred dollars when you have to pay $2600+ just for the visas. (Not including airfare.)
Major Major Major Major
@redshirt: Very good point. That seems to happen in lots of social groups. Perhaps having a certain number of people who don’t really care much, but are just there to collect a paycheck, or because the church potlucks have good food or whatever, is beneficial to avoiding cultishness.
Of course, which came first etc.
geg6
@? Martin:
Exactly. I have a relative or two who fell afoul of them (both the Irish and the German branches — both Catholic) and there are dead ancestors as a result. All because they were Catholic and immigrants. No other reason. The Know-Nothings were founded on anti-Catholicism, which in those days meant they were de facto anti-immigrant. White washing that is a historical crime.
Poopyman
Fear. Fear is the driving force here, and I can pretty well point to the exact date that it got loose, almost exactly 15 years ago. And now we have
I swear to God this is not an Onion article, but would have been if they’d thought of it.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
Don’t know about that, but he owns the Red Sox.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
Duverger’s law. The places where Greens have done well usually have proportional representation, which lets minor parties have some real influence even if they don’t get a huge number of votes. First-past-the-post voting in the US means that minor parties are mostly relegated to people who see elections as a form of self expression rather than an actual form of self-governance.
Timurid
What’s there to reckon, exactly?
The modern Republican party was an alliance of people who were anti-Communist, fiscally conservative, socially conservative or some combination of same. Fast forward to today and…
1. Communism is irrelevant. By comparison ISIS and friends are weak sauce as an Existential Evil and unifying force.
2. In the New Economy fiscal conservatism is a non-starter as a mass movement. It’s become more and more obvious over time that ‘small government’ and unregulated markets are a game that most people have no chance of winning.
3. That leaves social conservatism, which has its own problems. The religious foundations of the movement have never been weaker. Organized religion is in decline. ‘Culture war’ issues like abortion and gay marriage have been largely resolved. Christian conservatives will be powerful in the local politics of many areas for a long time to come, but they are increasingly irrelevant in national politics. The only way to maintain a national social conservative movement is to base it on culture, ethnicity and/or race.
At this point the only ‘reckoning’ that Republicans can hope for is a shift in emphasis from race to culture. “Everyone is welcome if they become more like us. If they become Real Americans.” That’s still going to be objectionable to a lot of people, and there’s no clear path for the GOP to avoid a future as a permanent minority party.
Trentrunner
OK, the NYT is now rt-ing Reuters that Clinton is saying she forgot about briefings because of her concussion.
If those briefings took place in Whitewater and were transcribed by Ben Gazzi, I believe we’ll have hit peak Clinton Rules.
Fuck Maggie Haberman, of the NYT. Our own Tom Levenson has been having quite the back-and-forth with her. Would love for Tom to post something here about it.
Iowa Old Lady
The GOP is capable of winning state elections but they are less and less able to govern. Maybe in the long run that means they start losing state elections too, but I’m not confident.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
That means he’s the John Henry who owns Liverpool Football Club. I’d heard that famous song about him and the hammer, and I had this idea that he’d be more of a working-class hero type.
Peale
@Turgidson: Yep. He only trotted out “Both Sides” when Republicans were faced with criticism. That was not a courtesy extended to Democrats. Democratic scandals are unique.
rikyrah
Marshall has been the Steve Benen of this election season. His commentary absolutely on point.
redshirt
@SFAW: It said so much to me that just about the same time Henry bought the Globe for 70 million IIRC he also signed the great Dustin Pedroia to a long term deal worth 100 million.
An MLB second baseman is far more valuable to our society than one its best newspapers. Pretty much sums up where we are.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Major Major Major Major: Put unkindly, the adults will have left the building at that point.
redshirt
@Iowa Old Lady: Well, they’re running states into the ground, actually or metaphorically. One would hope voters would respond to that. But…..
patroclus
@? Martin: I don’t think I’m being “overly charitable” to a historic party that was made up of a wide variety of factions, some of which were clearly anti-immigrant and some of which were not. Lincoln, whom you quoted, was an opponent – he was a former Whig who was not attracted to the American Party because of its anti-immigrant faction. But Rachel’s presentation just assumed that all elected American Party figures were automatically anti-immigrant, which isn’t even remotely true – in other parts of the country, they were a transitional way station based on issues that were more pre-Civil War related than merely on immigration. Their only Presidential nominee was former President Millard Fillmore, who was also not anti-immigrant and the non-anti-immigrant faction deliberately changed the name to the American Party so as to emphasize that it was not solely anti-immigrant. You seem to be overly critical of the party despite never having engaged at all with it.
redshirt
@Poopyman: When dressing as a clown is criminal, only criminals will be clowns.
Shell
This is w hat I find so infuriating, Trump gives a frightening, demagoguery of a speech, complete with podium pounding and the medias response seems to be “Well, at least he’s entertaining, instead of boring old Clinton.”
jl
I hope the election focuses on the really big issue brought up by Trump spox yesterday: tacotrucksoneverycorner.
First it was pizza, then bagels and cream cheese, lucky charms, and now tacos. All these foreign foods sapping the purity of our vital national essence.
They win, while hard tack and hoe cakes, salt pork and cabbage lose.
Hope Trump makes that a major campaign issue.
Splitting Image
@Face:
Democratic voters can end that anytime they feel like it by actually deciding to vote in off-year elections.
Gerrymandering may help the Republicans for the moment, but both parties are fully aware of the fact that the Republican advantage in the states is almost entirely because their old white base votes in mid-term elections while the Democrats stay home. Sure, they can point to the number of offices they hold, but the main thing keeping them there is something beyond their control. And that makes their power very precarious. The only way to keep the states they control in the long run is to reach out to people who are currently young non-voters so that the Republicans get their share of them when they become older and more likely to vote. I see no evidence of them trying to do this.
Remember, it took a while for the Democratic state machines to collapse even after the party got hammered in election after election at the Presidential level. But collapse they did. Older New Deal Democrats died off and were replaced by the young Reagan Democrats who grew up into old Tea Partiers.
Keith P.
That Ailes article was interesting in that there was a Fox insider saying that if Trump loses in November, the network is done (!!!!!!!). O’Reilly would retire, Kelly would leave for greener pastures, and Hannity would go to TrumpTV. At that point, the GOP loses a major, major strength, and they may even split if the Trump side is still strong enough afterwards. Even if it’s not half the party, it only really needs to be a third to lead to a split, since they would hate the #NeverTrump conversatives, and neither would want to deal with the moderate ones (which wouldn’t really amount to a third)
Shell
When Trump loses, the one right-wing retaliation Im looking forward to are all those tasty taco trucks that will parked on every corner. Lunch right at hand, forever.
Ooh, turns out Latinos for Trump founder Marco Gutierrez was one of those predatory real estate scammer, who bilked money out of people facing foreclosure.
Doug R
@Bobby Thomson: I like to hide post, then see less from that person among the options. If they keep sharing posts from the same crazy site but you want to still see posts from them, you can do that as one of the options.
Major Major Major Major
@CONGRATULATIONS!: To where? Or do you mean that that’ll be the end of the people-who-know-what-they’re-doing crowd, once the Clintons and their folks and the Obamas and their folks are out, and Reid and Pelosi and all the rest who know what they’re doing but are old?
There IS a younger generation of leadership. Booker comes to mind.
Ella in New Mexico
Wrote most of this elsewhere yesterday, but it bears repeating:
Been visiting NY and Ellis Island today, and all I can say is this latest anti-immigrant mood in America has been done before. The ugly, angry blaming, the very same words and phrases were used on immigrants here every time the economy got sluggish. The Irish, the Chinese, the Germans, the Japanese, the Italians. They and others have been made scape goats by a vocal minority since we began as a sovereign nation.
But we always seem to survive it, and the beautiful, determined faces on these walls who endured so much hardship to come here are testament to Good rising above Evil. Not only that, we clearly are a richer nation from having them among our citizenry, a better nation. Truer words were never said about America: We are a nation of immigrants, every single one of us (with the exception of Native Americans).
Something I found incredibly inspiring was how many visitors to the Island were clearly foreign born. How powerful it was, listening to literally dozens of languages being spoken by tourists from almost everywhere in the world, seeing them fascinated and absorbed in the photos, personal belongings and stories of immigrants who passed through Ellis Island. Seeing their joy and amazement at the sight of the Statue of Liberty and how important it was their children knew what she stands for.
They still come here, still see us as a land of hope and dreams. And regardless of the dwindling, dying last dregs of the nativists and bigots, we keep growing and progressing in spite of the Know Nothings. Somehow, I know deep down that this time will be no different.
We will survive, thrive, and continue to be a place that means opportunity and hope and freedom for all.
hovercraft
@Hillary Rettig:
That’s a feature not a bug, they’re trying to weed out the unwashed masses, the poor and the weak. You know all those things on the Statue of Liberty.
The Dangerman
Fascinating. A major news story “dump” on the Friday before the Labor Day Holiday. That should be red meat for conspiracy theorists. I’ll assume it’s someone in the FBI that doesn’t like HRC very much because, well, see the previous (or, I suppose, DOES like her because, well, see the previous before the previous).
Trump’s either a fuming fascist or a raving racist and he has a nonzero chance at the Big Prize. Amazing.
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
I think so, but for two reasons. On the one hand, they act as a steadying influence on the radical low-level members, who can’t fall as easily into group-think. On the other hand, the people at the top can’t spend all their time preaching to the choir; they have to build an organization that’s still valuable to people who are only there for the fringe benefits. The temptation to throw out the squishes and concentrate on a smaller but purer group is strong, and there’s no logical stopping point.
Major Major Major Major
@The Dangerman: If it’s something they really want to hide they dump it at 5pm. This I figure they just released as soon as it was ready, which happened to be early afternoon.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@debbie: There are people posting here right now who will go into a voting booth in a few weeks, and out of a deep-seated desire for revenge on the great unwashed who didn’t choose Vermont’s Doc Brown, will select this hopeless individual as a spite vote.
Even Trump would be better at running the country. Albeit straight into the ground.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Kirsten Gillibrand might make a fine second Madam President.
Trentrunner
@Betty Cracker: Yup. Also, keep an eye on Kamala Harris out west…
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: Yeah, that sounds about right.
@Trentrunner: Let’s just start calling her Senator Harris now?
Aleta
From work by Rachel Sklar via Vox
Sklar’s twitter summary
the Conster, la Citoyenne
I just don’t think the media fully grasps how fast and thoroughly the country is changing – they certainly haven’t been up to normalizing the change, which, if you don’t do that, you end up normalizing the reaction to it. The national media figures pretty much reflect their viewership which skews older and white/male, which means that “minorities” are still “the other” in most of their lives, at least in positions of authority and among peer groups. This leads to a real blindness and deafness about how Trump’s hate speech really is heard by those who aren’t in the old/white/male world, which makes them reluctant/unwilling/unable to see it for what it is – they probably are around people who believe/say things like that all the time. Josh has really done a great service here by forcing it out there in this racist as fuck country. I think we’re witnessing a huge shift in the ground under us because things once seen, cannot be unseen.
Feathers
@Amir Khalid: The problem with trying to recreate the Green party in America is that in Europe the right of women to access basic healthcare isn’t questioned. Nor do you have a significant population of formerly enslaved persons who are consistently denied basic citizenship rights and equal protection under the law. And the existence of a social welfare system with an adequate safety net, as well as free public education through the university level, not to mention a comprehensive universal healthcare system.
Which is why running on “Green” issues in the US gets you only the flakes and nuts. It has a constituency in very liberal cities, where the issues above are not contested. That said, there was a black guy taking home a Jill Stein yard sign on the bus last night. In Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Lizzy L
Lengua tacos! Hot damn! Where’s my truck? How long do I have to wait?
Trollhattan
@Aleta:
Pathological. To be fair, the same language is contained in the iTunes terms and conditions.
PPCLI
@Kay: The Clinton Campaign released this statement today:
“Donald Trump has been falsely attacking the charity run by President Clinton when it is Trump’s own Foundation that has been caught in an actual pay-to-play scandal.
While the Clinton Foundation has received the highest ratings from independent charitable watchdogs, Donald Trump’s use of foundation money to donate to the Florida Attorney General actually broke the law. Worst of all, it appears the payment may have been intended to stave off an investigation into the sham Trump University that has ripped off unsuspecting students.
Donald Trump has no standing whatsoever to question the Clinton Foundation, which works to make AIDS and malaria drugs more accessible, when it’s been proven he uses his own foundation to launder illegal campaign donations.”
Now they need to repeat this 1000 times, every time the Clinton foundation is brought up.
Turgidson
@Peale:
Indeed. And use of the word “lie.” Fournier must tell himself he’s some sort of truthtelling renegade because he’s willing to use the word “lie.” Problem is, the only politician I am certain he’s called out for “lying” is Hillary. And he says it nearly every single fucking time he says anything about her. And he uses it when discussing her emails. I honestly doubt Hillary deliberately made false statements about her damn emails. More likely, she didn’t give the subject enough thought at the time she decided to set it up that way, and made imprecise and perhaps mistaken statements nearly eight years later when the MSM got hold of the topic as their new prized chew toy. But to Fournier, she’s brazenly lying just like Nixon did about Watergate. Give me a fucking break. Has he ever, EVER use the word “lie” to describe the mile-high mountain of bullshit spewed by the Bush Crime Syndicate when they wanted their war? Did he ever use the word “lie” to describe Willard Mitt “Mittens” Romney’s 2012 campaign, which was basically one long run-on lie about Obama’s record? Obviously, I could go on. No. Just Hillary. Who is rated by the fact-checking shops as easily the most honest candidate in the race. Not that idiots like Fournier pay attention to any of that.
? Martin
@James E Powell: Slightly in the defense of the media, universities are launching courses to cover Trump’s campaign because we don’t cover political theory of fascism here. It’s a historical footnote of something that infected other countries which the US has always just straight up assumed could never exist here as a movement. Trump is proving that wrong, and what the faculty and students are discovering is that it’s such a foreign concept that we are predisposed to dismiss it as not even happening. We lack the vocabulary to discuss it here (which is why we constantly fall back to metaphors with Nazism which are as much wrong as right and therefore clumsy and counterproductive). The media are caught in the same trap – they legitimately don’t know how to talk about this in ways that wouldn’t be viewed as either unfair or apocalyptic sounding. They’re lost at sea, just like a lot of poly sci teachers are when it comes to how to communicate this accurately to novices.
Now, it’s just a slight defense, because at the end of the day, this is what they profess to be experts at and get paid for and fuck them if they can’t do the job they said they could do. But I think it’s maybe why Josh is a bit better at this, having pursued a doctorate in history and having a much better understanding of the broad historical consequences of this sort of thing, rather than political reporters that largely came up through American political science that treated fascism as little more than a ‘that’s not possible here’ footnote.
My daughter was assigned Trump for a paper for history, and we’re working through how exactly to communicate this properly. She’s being asked to explain why he’s important right now, and she says there are two reasons – one because he’s running for president and anyone running for president should be treated importantly because of the consequence of actually being president, but more because he is doing and saying things that would be important outside of that context, that would be important even if it was a Senator not running for office, or a famous person like Beyonce who could command the media attention every day, and so on. The first part is standard fare history paper that she’s comfortable doing and can anticipate how her teacher will respond. The second part is stressful for her because she feels compelled to point out the overt racism, that he’s suggested deporting US citizens so that families aren’t broken up, that he’s talked about torturing people. And she just has no experience with writing in that manner. There is no way to balance that, to give him the benefit of the doubt on it – it’s just too alarming to let go. And I think the media will change as a result – they’re going to have to expand their range, we’re going to have to create some new language here. Even if it’s easy to see, it’s not easy to communicate in a way that doesn’t sound like you are on fire.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
This is a good article about being an ex-journalist, Clinton supporter, and critic of the current reporting. Link.
piratedan
well perhaps we’re looking at this the wrong way…
Maybe the Media has really been taken over by the bean counters… facts don’t matter, outcomes don’t matter, their reason for being isn’t to inform us, the consumer. Their reason for being is to keep us coming back. Their marketing models show that Trump generates clicks, Clinton scandals, generate clicks and eyeballs. So that’s what we get. We don’t get “news” we get “infotainment”.
There are still a few journalists out there, but they don’t make decisions about how a story will be covered and they’re certainly not part of the media clique that frames and spins what we all consume. In many ways, the Media has decided to back the idiot rich kid for class president because he’ll throw the best parties and they’ll get to tut-tut when needed, knowing that he’s unlikely to shitcan them. Plus, they have nothing in common with that Striver on the other side, she wants to make things better for everyone else, and the Media can’t understand how that could be a good thing. Fuck, someone might actually think doing work is required, other than having an opinion.
Turgidson
@PPCLI:
They’ll just be accused of playing dirty, racing to the bottom, projection.
Mind you, I agree that they should definitely flog the Trump bribe to the best of their ability. But the Villagers will blow them off, gloss over the actual controversy of Trump’s behavior, and say “see? BOTHSIDESBOTHSIDESBOTHSIDES.”
Keith P.
@Lizzy L: Those are my favorite (well, either that or lengua tortas). I’ve gotten a couple of people to try it, and they always like it (“Tastes like pot roast!”). I also like tripa, *if* they’re crispy. I’m not really sure how to tell when tripa or chicharron are going to be crispy, so I never order them (I ordered the latter one time expecting pork rinds, but I got a gelatinous mess).
Hell, I like pastor and barbacoa, too. But lengua is #1 IMO.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Immanentize: And generally committed to good government and infrastructure improvements and schools. He also knew when he was licked, and when to find a new schtick.
Orville Faubus was big on things modern progressives can get behind, if you can convince yourself those balance out his racial politics*. It’s really bad when modern bigots make you miss the older versions. Still not bad enough that we can look with nostalgia on Theodore Bilbo, so that’s something…
*No, they don’t.
Gelfling 545
@Amir Khalid: I expect it’s partly that European countries are used to multiple political parties and they are not therefore considered so strange that they can only attract, for the most part, the lunatic fringe.
Schlemazel
The GOP will only learn that they cannot speak so openly and will return to dog whistles. They will attack President Clinton with more ferocity than they did Bill or Obama, there will be dozens of committee investigations. in 2020 they will nominate someone as useless as Trump and as ugly inside as Trump but who will not talk quite so honestly about the party’s agenda.
Aleta
Another reason why local elections at the most basic level matter a lot (and conservatives are right on it):
Iowa Old Lady
@? Martin:
That’s fascinating.
Schlemazel
That, right there is exactly it Dan.
Misterpuff
@Archon: The Press (The Media) has been subsumed by the multinational corporate ethos of “Earnings Per Share Uber Alles” that Fascism doesn’t seem so bad since Modern Fascism would be run by Corporate Oligarchs and not the Hitler guy.
? Martin
@patroclus: So, my mom is a Republican but she’s surprisingly liberal on a number of positions. Probably more accurate to describe her as anti-Democratic who has bought into all of the wingnut bullshit about Clinton from the last 3 decades.
Anyway, she is dismayed that Republicans are increasingly being cast as racists when she clearly is not one. And I have to explain to her that individuals within a group that they choose to identify with, are not granted the ability to escape the reputation of the group. If the party is viewed as racist because a federal court calls them straight-up racists, she’s stuck with that as a supporter of the group. If she doesn’t like that label she is free to leave that group. That she chooses to embrace that label means embracing everything that comes with that label.
So it doesn’t matter that there were individuals in the Know Nothing party that weren’t anti-immigrant. The party, from it’s very name, was created and defined by being anti-immigrant. We can acknowledge those individuals, but they don’t get to redefine what the party was about. The KKK doesn’t get to stop being called a racist organization the moment they get a black member, what they get is a black member who is tolerant of the group’s racism.
Fair Economist
@? Martin:
Not an “eventually” that’s of any use. In the Jim Crow South, they cut the franchise to the point that only 20% of people could vote. It will be centuries before white racists are less than 10% of the population.
Gerrymandering alone can easily produce overwhelming majorities for one party in a state that overwhelmingly votes for the other. See Pennsylvania. That plus electoral votes by congressional district could give the Republicans the Presidency as well as the House indefinitely.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Elmo:
I hear you and offer sympathies. I am always befuddled by how sibs and such end up with such wildly divergent world views. How anyone can regard a Trump or Palin or Bachmann or Gohmert and that ilk with anything but intellectual disdain is beyond me.
Feathers
@The Dangerman: Grew up in Northern Virginia. Many of my high school classmates went into government. What is frightening is how much federal law enforcement has bought into the Fox News anti-government world view. Obama derangement is well represented. Imagine the stupid petty shit of any workplace getting turned into a moral crusade via the wisdom of Rush Limbaugh, et al. I’m convinced that this is why the Secret Service is falling apart. You can’t run an organization fueled by pride if everyone involved is consumed by hatred. And when a Republican is in the White House, everything becomes the fault of the Democrats in Congress.
One of the recent foundation stories had someone at the GAO saying Clinton’s spending was legal but there was cause for concern. I wanted to shout – you know there are frothing right-wing loons working at the GAO, who would make shit up at the drop of a hat to be able to slag the Clintons or Obama in a national newspaper! Did you take that into consideration?
Journalism took a nosedive in quality when it became something you studied in journalism school, rather than a job for really sharp kids who weren’t cut out for or couldn’t afford college.
Trollhattan
@Misterpuff:
Not to mention galloping media consolidation, which harvests all those great “synergies promulgated through the merging of staffs and resultant efficiencies and imagineering enhancements, fostered in a culture of excellence and cost-savings and value to shareholders.”
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@redshirt:
I fear you are correct: no reboot, no actual use of any post-election autopsy.
When Trump loses, there will be the usual call for minority outreach, message massage… It will all be for naught.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
You know that the Know-Nothings killed people, right? They were street thugs.
Trollhattan
@Aleta:
He made a better Norwegian bachelor farmer.
Fair Economist
@Trentrunner:
She’s expected to remember every briefing she got from seven years ago? How many people can do that? 1 in a 1000? I have never been able to remember every meeting from seven years back, ever.
Schlemazel
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
I have told this story here before but it is true- My brother was a decent stand up guy, reasonably liberal. Then he was in a bad car accident & suffered severe head trauma. After that he was hooked on Rush Limbaugh and became a wingnuts wingnut and Bachmann supporter. I am sure it is brain damage, maybe diagnosed.
Gin & Tonic
In many parts of the world, journalism is an honorable and (in some cases) very risky profession – look at the examples of Georgiy Gongadze or Anna Politkovskaya. There are journalists who actually have a positive influence on the polity and even affect world events – look at the examples of Serhiy Leshchenko or Mustafa Nayyem.
Journalism is crap in the US because that’s what the US wants.
Gvg
The media is in trouble because it lost it’s funding from adds. Newspapers had classifieds and adds. Tv had adds. Craigslist killed a lot of papers I am told. We are all pretty sophisticated about avoiding adds with various recordings and fast forwards plus different sources. I know I don’t know how it all works but I think that has to be solved in order to get back competent media.
Trump both is and isn’t republican. It’s true he hold the same positions but not disguised, however he has no interest in the party except as his servant and doesn’t care if the rest don’t get reelected. A lot of the rest aren’t much better. This is part of the tea party consequence. Cruz was actually nearly as bad, lots of them are. They didn’t used to be. I think the rich guys trying to buy control for their own personal benefit set the fuse. Our system requires collective cooperation because the founders thought it would prevent tyrants. I think they were right. Too much individualism is going to kill the national GOP. Then the state goes seem still pretty strong but if the national coordination goes they will drift into separate regional parties and start to not be alike. Then they won’t all get back together. I can’t quite figure out the next step but back in the 60’s there were regional differences in the democrats of the north and south and also the republicans that lead to different votes on things like civil rights and eventually a lot of party switching.
Mnemosyne
@Ella in New Mexico:
I know people mock me for my “Hamilton” love, but one of the big things people have responded to in the show is that it is explicitly an “immigrant makes good” story, a guy who came here for a new life and worked his ass off to make it happen. Meanwhile, his enemies mock and destroy him in part because he’s not a “real American,” he’s just some jumped-up dude from the Carribbean who thinks he’s as good as the Founding Fathers who were born here.
And I also think that’s why Obama was able to connect with enough white people to get elected — he has an immigration story, and trading immigration stories is our white people currency. So trying to get Americans to hate all immigrants is a delicate process and easy to derail by being too explicit about it.
patroclus
@? Martin:Indeed, the tactic of shaming of guilt by association is an effective political tactic and was probably the reason the American Party didn’t last. Despite the fact that the actual American party’s elected representatives were not anti-immigrant, including a former President and a Speaker of the House, their opponents effectively shamed them using guilt by association tactics to such a great extent that they eventually became members of other parties – either the Constitutional Union Party or the Republican Party. But that doesn’t change the actual history of the Party – it started as the political vehicle of the anti-immigrant Know Nothings, but for a few years, it morphed into an actual political force that was not anti-immigrant and was a forerunner in a number of progressive agenda items, most notably railroad regulation and a broad interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause. Neither Fillmore, Law, Houston or any of the other actual leaders of the Party were ever anti-immigrant, but Rachel can smear them even today as being so merely by guilt by association tactics. The American party in the South was made up of people who opposed the virulent racism of the then SlavePower Democrats and is remembered there as such, that is, they were not racists. But many of their northern colleagues were definitely anti-immigrant and so their lack of racism isn’t remembered, the anti-immigrants of the North are. Pretty weird way of interpreting history, if you ask me.
sigaba
@Feathers:
Journalism took a nosedive when all of our journalists got their job by being someone’s kid literally. The DC press is just another sinecure/courtier job.
hovercraft
From Washington Monthly’s Political Animal Blog.
How The Press Is Making The Clinton Foundation Into The New Benghazi
Keith P.
Good lord, Barbara Boxer did not defend Clinton very well there on CNN. IMO, the easiest way to answer the whole “It’s been *X days* since her last press conference” is to just say, “She prefers to give one-on-one interviews, where there is follow-up. Press conferences are single question, single answer, next question. [The American people deserve more depth, and one-on-one interviews give that].”
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: You can talk about Hamilton from now until forever as far as I’m concerned.
Mike E
@Ella in New Mexico: last I was at Ellis Island was 25+ years ago, when I went there with my naturalized sister to check out our mom’s name we had donated to have inscribed on a coppery wall of immigrants who squeezed through to citizenship there (not my late mom; she & sis entered officially at Miami, while sis #2 was in utero also, too:-)
? Martin
@Mnemosyne: And Louisville. Gangs of New York is based on another Know-Nothing leader. New Orleans. DC. Cincinnati. Philadelphia.
Probably half of the political violence prior to the Civil War was due to the know-nothing movement.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: Best of all she’s a Bruin(law school grad).
Botsplainer
@? Martin:
The Cathedral of the Assumption is five blocks from where I’m at now.
Lots of shame came along with that set of hateful acts.
Mike E
@Mnemosyne:
It’s moar…concern ;-)
kc
Um. Didn’t we fun of Sarah Palin for not knowing what “blood libel” means?
Aleta
@Trollhattan:
No discernable improvement in social skills either.
Two Norwegian bachelor farmers in the woods suddenly noticed some tracks. One claimed they were bear tracks but the other argued they were wolverine tracks. They argued over it so long that that they didn’t notice the train until it was too late.
Shell
No, we’re not Booing, we’re saying ‘Boo-urns’
piratedan
@Fair Economist: hell, Trump can’t recall what he’s said on any one position on a daily basis..
Major Major Major Major
@kc:
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
Only as far as bringing a World Series championship back to Boston.
Outside of that, not so much. I think he made his money in commodities training, but I’m probably wrong about that, and too lazy/apathetic to look it up. But it dismayed and dismays me that the Globe has turned into a center-right rag. The most liberal op-ed writer is a guy named Scot Lehigh; although I generally like him, he wouldn’t be considered a liberal. There’s also:The Always Clueless Joan Vennochi, a quasi-misogynistic, lite version of MoDo; the perpetually stupid and dissembling Jeff Jacoby (who I maintain is actually Jonah, because I’ve never seen the two of them together); and a few others who love demonstrating their “Look! I’m a centrist!” cred. Were David Nyhan (may he Rest In Peace) still around, he probably would have been sacked a year or two ago, for being A Liberal.
Oh, and the last time I checked. their website was fucking useless.
A lot more than you expected for a reply, I’m sure. I have, shall we say, “issues” about some things. Thanks for your patience.
Frank Wilhoit
From 1979, Reagan’s surrogates in the village churches were speaking exactly as Trump does today. The only difference is the degree of publicity.
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft: Good link, thanks.
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: Indeed, as did the Democrats and Republicans. They were also street thugs. The Civil War resulted in the highest number of casualties of any war in American history. And the American Party certainly didn’t cause that war, but the Dems and Republicans did. You do know that, don’t you?
geg6
@patroclus:
What a load of bullshit. Their original name was the Native American Party. Now you can choose to ignore the obvious intent of that name, but anyone with a brain knows exactly what that means. And your reading of their history is contrary to everything I’ve ever learned or read about them. They were a nativist party, no question. As for Millard Fillmore being nominated as their presidential candidate, it happened when he was out of the country and he had not even been consulted about it. You have no idea what you are talking about.
The Dangerman
@Keith P.:
…is to hold a press conference and be done with it. I’m sure she’s capable and I’m sure there must be a spare hour someplace along the way.
This is Marketing 101 Stuff; perception is reality. You eliminate the talking point from the other side not by some novel excuse but by using the Raid approach (“kill it dead”; note that any comparison to Trumpsters or RW Talking Heads to cockroaches is purely coincidental).
? Martin
@patroclus: That’s not guilt-by-association, that’s guilt-by-participation. These individuals are only associated because they are backing or advancing a particular political viewpoint (even if they disagree on the particulars). They are active participants. They are not like a minority class that is unable to change their label, they only have that label to advance that viewpoint.
But you hint at a problem the GOP will have after this election which is that it doesn’t matter in politics who is the driver of the viewpoints. Nobody will fucking care that Paul Ryan isn’t a straight up racist if GOP voters proclaim the GOP to be a nativist, racist institution. We have a participatory democracy and the mob gets just as much of a say (if not more) in the direction and identification of the party as the leaders do. So yes, Fillmore may not have been individually racist, but he nevertheless was part of a racist movement by his own choice. Now, that may have been politically expedient or opportunistic that the best avenue to the Presidency was through the group, but that doesn’t absolve him of tolerating these attitudes from which he benefitted.
And in many ways that’s our critique of the GOP. Romney never struck me as a racist guy, but he was the head of a party that was making a hell of a lot of racist decisions that he personally hoped to profit off of and because of that, I don’t see that we should give him much of a pass there. He could have made different choices. He chose not to. He gets to be responsible for that.
patroclus
@? Martin: Hardly. Virtually all of the violence in the South prior to the Civil War was caused by the slaveholders, who were virtually all Democrats. There is no way the American Party could ever even hope to compete with that level of violence – it only lasted from 1853 or so to 1857 or so.
geg6
@? Martin:
Maybe they don’t cover it today or maybe it’s just the school your daughter attends, but, as a poli sci major back in the early 80’s, I took a class called “Totalitarianism and Fascism.”
gogol's wife
@The Dangerman:
It won’t kill anything. It will just give them more fodder to pick at her. It’s a waste of time.
jl
A political movement that is almost nothing but propaganda nonsense and general BS gets more and more obsessed with grifting, and then is almost nothing but grifting and starts eating itself, then feeding on itself, and then turns into a feeding frenzy on itself. Which is a grotesque progression, but it looks like that is what is happening. I hope and pray the Trump, RNC and GOP dysfunction continues.
Trump Campaign Reportedly Saved By Not Paying At Least 10 Top Staffers
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-campaign-has-not-paid-at-least-ten-top-staffers
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
I believe I may have mentioned that I have dead relatives due to the Know Nothings. Both immigrants and Catholics, an Irishman and a German. Two of their most hated groups.
? Martin
@kc: You don’t think Josh Marshall knows exactly what it means?
Calouste
@Gelfling 545: It’s also partially, and I am using the German Greens here as an example, because they kicked out the lunatic, uncompromising, fringe. There was a big fight in the German Green Party in the 80s/90s between the fundis (purity ponies) and the realos (who wanted to get stuff done). The realos won, engaged in coalitions, first with the Socialists, later even with the Christian-Democrats, and got green stuff done, even if they regularly had to held their noses at the compromises they needed to agree to. The fundis have disappeared.
patroclus
@geg6: What a load of bullshit. As stated, they changed the name specifically to avoid the implications of the original name. You can choose to ignore that if you want, but anyone with a brain knows why they changed the name. And your reading of history is contrary to actual fact – the American Party in the South was a political force in opposition to the Democrats and their faction was nether nativist nor anti-immigrant. Millard Fillmore, the only Presidential nominee ever of the American Party, was neither anti-immigrant nor nativist. You should learn history.
Emma
@The Dangerman: You’re joking, right? Jesus Christ, they don’t care. The want a Clinton scalp and they’ll sell their wives and/or husbands into slavery to get it. They have no ethics, no morals, and no decency.
? Martin
@patroclus: That’s not political violence. Slaves had no political power. It couldn’t have been political violence.
The Dangerman
@gogol’s wife:
Not if she doesn’t give them any fodder; think of it as Nixon’s Checkers Speech. That shut a lot of people up at the time.
geg6
@patroclus:
They had some populist notions. But the party was explicitly founded upon anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant ideals. And I haven’t noticed many Southerners of the era who were pro-Catholics.
patroclus
@geg6: I believe I may have mentioned that I have dead relatives due to the Republicans and Democrats. They hated people too.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman: This isn’t 1952.
The Dangerman
@Emma:
…and I want tonight’s Lottery numbers. I’m not going to get them and she doesn’t have to give up her scalp.
She’s running for President; she can handle a press conference.
? Martin
@The Dangerman: How does 30 questions about email servers and the Clinton Foundation shut anybody up?
They’re only complaining because they can’t get their email soundbite for the news. What’s the point of giving them that?
patroclus
@? Martin: It was definitely political violence and it was very widespread. And completely dwarfing anything a 5-year party ever did. Not even close. Maltreatment of slaves was disproportionate throughout the SlavePower – all done by slaveowners who were all about the manipulation of individuals by means of political power. And virtually all Democrats. The American party couldn’t hold a candle to that widespread repression.
Roger Moore
@1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet):
I think the difference is the destructive effect of the “government can do no good” attitude the Republicans have adopted. Racists like Wallace and Faubus believed that government could help people; they just wanted to make sure that it was helping whites rather than blacks. When the Supreme Court made it absolutely clear that wasn’t acceptable, the racists decided to cut of their nose to spite their face by gutting everything good government did rather than let blacks benefit from it. To justify that, they adopted the whole “government can’t get anything right” lie. Now, anyone who wants government to do some good by default has to joint the Democrats and accept the rest of their liberal package.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@? Martin: Yup, you forgot Benghazi and that Hillary is on death’s door.
jl
@Emma: I agree. Look at the latest HRC scandal mongering: Bill Clinton and some other going to North Korea to negotiate a hostage release got some special diplomatic visas, and that is evidence of some corrupt Clinton Foundation/Sate Dept corrupt self dealing? That is beyond self parody. But printed with a straight face. I can only interpret it as an shouted F-you by the mediocre dimwit corporate hacks that run much of the corporate media world.
The Dangerman’s suggestion would work if there were any chance of doing anything to eliminate talking points. But there is no chance of that. So, HRC should do nothing at all for the sake of eliminating a talking point.
Even the press conference flap. We see the arrogance and bigotry of the corporate media when they dismiss black and HIspanic journalist organizations. HRC did get hard questions at that forum, just not the favored hard questions that fit the corporate media narratives, story arcs and whims of the day.
I am not a big fan of HRC and I am certainly ready to criticize her if I think she does something wrong. But I don’t expect her, and don’t want her or her camp to waste time doing anything in the expectation of eliminating talking points. Might was well do something with the expectation that she can flap her arms and fly to the next rally.
The Dangerman
@? Martin:
…and there won’t be stories about the servers or the foundation if she doesn’t hold a PC?
? Martin
@The Dangerman: The last two stories has been:
1) That the Clinton Foundation asked for a special passport for a staffer to accompany Bill Clinton to negotiate the release of a pair of journalists from North Korea.
2) That the press has ignored Trump being fined by the IRS for improper campaign contributions to Pam Bondi, presumably to buy her off from launching an investigation into Trump University, but they keep going after 1) as being illegal.
geg6
@patroclus:
Fuck you. I know my history. In fact, this is my actual family history and, as a college student with a minor in history, I did research into the subject. You are the one who is ignorant and is trying to make excuses for murdering bigots. You can tout Millard Fillmore all day long, but the truth is that historians of the era agree with my version of the story here, not yours. I point you to the works of Allan Nevins, Michael Holt, Steven Taylor and John Mulkern.
geg6
@patroclus:
You still are ignorant of this subject. What an ass you are.
Miss Bianca
@Aleta: I read that article – chilling!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@? Martin: There’s a pretty good reason to have a diplomatic passport if you’re traveling to North Korea; it makes it more likely that you’ll be able to return.
The Dangerman
@? Martin:
…and you tell them that they didn’t get it. Asking isn’t illegal (perhaps stupid, but not illegal).
patroclus
@? Martin: As President, Fillmore was a Whig and it was his support for the various compromises of 1850 (after Taylor died) which distinguished his administration. He also signed the Fugitive Slave Act, however. Of the two parties, the Whigs were probably the least racist compared to the then-Democrats, but they were both infused by the ideologies of the era and they both had their Southern wings. By contrast, the American Party (in the South) was a vehicle for opposition to the then-dominant Democrats and, although made up of ex-Southern Whigs, was notably less supportive of slavery than had been their predecessor. So, when Fillmore accepted the American party’s nomination, he was joining arguably a less racist movement than had been his prior party. It wasn’t quite as progressive as the Republican party became, but it was a way station on the way to a better ideology. Had Fillmore been a Democrat (especially of the Breckenridge type), he could be described as more of a racist more validly. But smearing him as anti-immigrant is inaccurate.
patroclus
@geg6:@geg6: Your ignorance of the subject is shown by your reliance on mere insults. I advise you to learn a little bit more about history – especially the American party and the actual positions of its elected leaders. They were more complicated than you think.
? Martin
@The Dangerman: Given that they talk less about the email to make time to whine about the pressers, I’d rather they whine about the pressers, TBH.
The Dangerman
@? Martin:
Nope; they are talking servers, foundation, AND lack of a PC. They have 24 hours to fill, they can find time to talk about all 3 topics. Take a piece off the board.
Patricia Kayden
This. There is no reason to believe that a President Trump wouldn’t do just this.
patroclus
@geg6: I majored in history and this is my family history which I have done research into. I suggest you read Eric Foner, Marquis James, William Freehling, and M.K. Wiseheart, all volumes I am looking at right now, which confirm the actual history of the American Party, Fillmore, Houston, Law and others. Which started as the political vehicle of the anti-immigrant Know Nothings, but then morphed into an actual political force, with elected leaders who were not (mostly) anti-immigrant. As Fillmore was the only Presidential nominee ever of the party, “touting” his positions is necessary to an understanding of the party. Fillmore was not a “murderous thug” despite what you may believe.
Gin & Tonic
This thread is getting interesting.
Roger Moore
@The Dangerman:
If she holds a press conference, she’ll get question after question about Benghazi, emails, Clinton Foundation, etc. and nothing substantive. Any substantive answer she gives will be distorted, and any non-substantive answer will raise accusations of dodging the issues. It will be a gigantic shitshow, and Monday morning quarterbacks like you will complain she should have known better.
rikyrah
Follow
Jesse Lehrich
@JesseLehrich
NEW: @LatinoDecisions poll of 3000 Latino voters:
Clinton: 70%
Trump: 19%
burnspbesq
OT; St. Vincent & the Grenadines 0-5 USA
germy
so! is everyone happy with the choice of debate moderators? Any comments or complaints?
Roger Moore
@The Dangerman:
There’s a difference between a speech and a press conference. The Checkers Speech was a chance for Nixon to respond to accusations against him without anyone else getting a word in. A press conference is defined by the questions the media wants to ask. If you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot.
Mike in NC
@rikyrah: Surprised he’s not polling at about 5% among Latinos.
redshirt
@germy: All liberals. Debates are rigged. System is rigged. Nothing’s fair hey buy my steaks!
patroclus
@Gin & Tonic: Well, it started because Rachel Maddow did a segment on it last night which I thought was simplistic. But my commenting has apparently upset a number of people who prefer to believe the Maddow view that the American party was merely the same thing as the Know Nothing movement. Which ignores the fact that others used it as a vehicle to challenge the Democrats after the Whigs collapsed and they had views other than those of the anti-immigrant founders. As martin pointed out, their “takeover” of the Party from its original anti-immigrant adherents and the fact that they were tarred with the anti-immigrant brush probably led to the American party’s demise. But the fact was that neither Fillmore, Houston, Donelson, Law or many of the other actual elected national leaders were ever particularly anti-immigrant – instead they were a transitionary party that ultimately led to the rise of the Republicans. They were definitely more pro-Union, progressive and populist than the then-Democrats and although they weren’t abolitionist, they were less favorable to slavery than the Democrats. The Republicans were able to out-flank them and to derogatorily characterize the party’s anti-immigrant antecedents and ultimately replaced them, but there was much more to the American party than merely anti-immigration. That apparently upsets some BJ commenters – I’m not sure why.
The Dangerman
@Roger Moore:
It COULD be a gigantic shit show, no doubt, but I think she can handle a press conference. Again, I reference the Checkers Speach; IIRC, Nixon was doomed, but overwhelming – OVERWHELMING – public support saved his ass.
As it is, HRC will win. I get it; she can run out the clock and win. Give a virtuoso performance (see Checkers) and maybe she wins the Senate. Hell, give a VIRTUOSO performance, maybe she flips the House. Unlikely, but maybe.
Course, she could still give said virtuoso performance at the debates … except all eyes will be watching Trump in those forums (if he does them, which I still kinda doubt). As has been said many times in these threads, as long as Trump doesn’t obviously shit himself (see Mexico City), he will be called the winner of the debate (or at least a draw).
Yes, a PC is a highwire act but, seriously, she’s running for President. She can handle it.
germy
@Feathers:
You’re right. Some of the best journalism of the early to mid-20th century was NOT done by the college boys, but by talented rogues.
burnspbesq
And it ends six-nil. The only people happier than Klinsmann are the bean-counters at Borussia Dortmund; two second-half goals tack another million Euros onto Pulisic’s market value.
redshirt
@burnspbesq: I recognize this as English, but have no idea what many of the words mean.
Baud
@The Dangerman: I have no doubt she can handle it. I personally prefer her to stick it to the national press.
Shell
The Checkers speech involved a cute puppy; of course the public was on his side.
MCA1
@burnspbesq: I don’t care that the kid hasn’t turned 18 yet, he should be starting every game for us. Mostly substituting but already a significant contributor on one of the top teams in Germany. I think Pulisic is the one we’ve been waiting for. Klinsmann claims over and over that he favors guys who ply their trade in the top European leagues – time to put his money where his mouth is.
Patricia Kayden
Poopyman: I am howling. That is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read. But I don’t have a clown phobia so seeing random clowns in my neighborhood wouldn’t really creep me out.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
Not abolitionists, but less favorable to slavery? What does that even mean? They only wanted to keep some people in chattel slavery on the basis of their skin color, but not everyone?
You really need to stop digging at this point, because you’re coming across as someone who is happy to make excuses for racism and xenophobia as long as the group in question also makes a few nods towards the things you like.
MCA1
@The Dangerman: I think you’re still missing the point. Of course she can handle it. The point is that no matter how much, in our eyes, she crushes a press conference, no matter how succinctly and deftly and elegantly she handles the turd in the punchbowl e-mail and OPTICS! questions, it won’t fucking matter. As the press is heavily, heavily vested in beating the dead e-mail horse from here to eternity, with no regard for describing nuance, scale, technology, precedent, or anything else that might lead a reasonable viewer/reader to think “Really? That’s it? Who gives a shit?”, said press will never, ever, ever find a way to simply report what Clinton says in said press conference they’ve been demanding, or just release footage. The ENTIRE POINT of the exercise in their mind will be to get more words out there, which words can then be checked relentlessly against every other statement ever to leave Hillary Clinton’s mouth, regardless of context, and find some discrepancies that they can “report” to us in very concerned, ominous language. Period.
Yes, she can handle it. It’s the media who cannot. Which is why she shouldn’t cave to their demands, IMHO.
germy
@efgoldman:
My father always brought two or three different newspapers home. I was a kid who loved to read, so I studied all of them.
And Sunday papers! It was like having a copy of War And Piece tossed on your porch. Big fat Sunday editions with book reviews, essays, movie and theater articles, opinion pieces, human interest… and of course the funnies.
I recently bough a copy of my local Sunday paper. After I removed the car ads and furniture ads, what was left looked like a Tuesday edition. And a new digital press means the physical size of the paper is smaller. It’s like a supermarket circular.
geg6
@patroclus:
Again, go fuck yourself and maybe read some of the actual experts on the subject that I referenced. You are the ignorant one. Apparently, historians’ names are insults in your book.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
@Betty Cracker:
@? Martin:
Betty, et al, this was a great post, and I regret that I have been too busy to much but skim the replies here. But I tried to take some time with the Marshall link.
The people who don not want to be branded racists or to brand Trump as racist need to pay more attention. One of Trump's 10 points would be for the US to judge who can become a citizen based on whether they can assimilate. Add to this his desire to deport people and have them reapply, and the hope to do away with birthright citizenship (tough to do, since this would require a Constitutional Amendment).
The "they must be able to assimilate" is a racist fig leaf. Let's stipulate for a moment that Trump is not a racist. But the people who advise him are. The Bannon/Breitbart connection leads directly to people who believe in racial quotas that would severely restrict anyone who is not white European. These people waffle on admitting Asians and East Asians with degrees or high tech skills; but they believe absolutely that most nonwhites are inferior people who can only "degrade" the white race, or that they can never fully assimilate into American's supposed Anglo society.
If magically all Latinos and Asians and other groups could be made to leave the country and then reapply to be admitted, it is almost a certainty that new immigration laws would be used to find these people to be unsuitable to become Americans.
Trump supporters like Ann Coulter (who must be delirious to find that her Donald is hard core anti-immigrant again) has never shied away from speaking frankly about her desire to see a whiter shade of pale America. And it is sad that more Americans don't follow international news. Trump's trotting out of BREXIT advocate Nigel Farage at one of his rallies was a wink and a nod to racists at home and abroad. And yet the Sunday shows could only tut tut about how Trump and Hillary calling each other bigots was "making the political discourse coarse," not that Clinton was clearly outlining the degree to which Trump is making naked racism into a formal plank of the GOP platform.
The news media and even many Trump supporters who are not venal simply cannot see what is in front of their faces, that Trump's cry to make America great again is also the sickening promise to make America White again.
geg6
@patroclus:
I never said Fillmore was a murderous thug. Nice that such a great historian such as you see fit to twist my words, though. Are you a historian for FOX News or maybe the Concerned Citizens Council?
germy
@efgoldman: George V. Higgins wrote “On Writing” and it’s one of the best books on the subject I’ve read.
1,000 Flouncing Lurkers (was fidelioscabinet)
@Roger Moore: You’re pretty much spot-on here, as far as I can tell, although I think Wallace was more advantageously racist in his behaviors than he was acting out of deep convictions, which doesn’t excuse anything he did.
I do think many of the racist Southern progressives were willing to see a crust or two end up in the hands of blacks and other people of color, as long as whites were able to get at least 4/5 of the loaf at a bare minimum. Kind of like Leroy and William Percy being willing to let African-American refugees from the 1927 flood camp on the levee as long as the men could be forced into unpaid labor there.
redshirt
@MCA1: Damn right. I don’t like the precedent, but Hillz should just say FU to the MSM and work only with independent and local media outlets.
I wish Obama had done the same, but he’s far more generous than I am.
Bobby Thomson
@germy: Wallace is a douche. Could have been worse.
mayyouliveininterestingtimes
@efgoldman: Just finished All The President’s Men and then looked up Earvin – interesting fellow. Love his quote on Liddy and backbone.
burnspbesq
@MCA1:
If T&T beats Guatemala tonight, then we’re into the next stage and Tuesday’s match is effectively a friendly. In that scenario, if he doesn’t start, there should be petition filed to appoint a conservator for Klinsmann. If he’s playing regularly for Dortmund, then yes he’s pencilled in whenever he’s healthy. If he’s playing for Dortmund U-23 in the Regionaliga, I’m not so sure.
Sandia Blanca
@Gene108: Forgot about his Mom! Good point.
bluefish
I trust that all you say will come to pass. I have faith in the American people, vast majority of, to do the right thing. But, I can’t lie — the suspense is killing me. This feels like a nightmare.
patroclus
@geg6: Again, more insults from you and nothing of substance. Not surprising. You are on ignore now.
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: That’s a good question. The position of the American Party was that the Republicans were too extreme in promoting equality but that the Democrats were too extreme in their promotion of nullification and State’s Rights. Fillmore was an architect of the Compromise of 1850, which included a number of contradictory positions, including admission of California as a free state, a partial extension of the Mason-Dixon line, Texas relinquishing its claim to what became New Mexico, the abolition of the slave trade in D.C. and the Fugitive Slave Act. Houston and other later American Party members, along with the Southern Whigs supported much of that. It was enacted in 5 separate bills, some of which were pro-Southern and some pro-Northern. By 1856, the issues had changed to the Kansas-Nebraska Act and Fillmore similarly took “moderate” positions (while trying to avoid answering questions or stating positions altogether). Basically, the American Party was pro-Union, willing to accept compromises on both fronts, in order to preserve the Union. When I say less pro-slavery, what I mean is less likely to accept the spread of slavery to other U.S. territories. But they also favored the enforcement of the Fugitive Slave law. Their position was more akin to the prior Free Soil party or like Douglas’ promotion of Kansas-Nebraska than to the Republicans or the Southern Democrats.
I’m not sure what you mean by more digging – I’m attempting to summarize the actual positions of the American Party circa 1856; not the Know Nothing movement circa 1853. I’m sure you’re capable of understanding the difference. Basically, the American Party grew out of the anti-immigrant Know Nothing movement but was taken over by other political factions in 1856 and nominated national candidates that weren’t anti-immigrant at all. Kind of like Perot’s Reform party being taken over by Buchanan of Bob Barr and the Libertarian Party. It’s not really all that controversial and serious historians are well aware of it.
MCA1
@burnspbesq: Agreed. I think scoring deep into extra time plus burying a penalty against Man City recently should ensure that he’s with the big club pretty much full time. He just strikes me as a gamer, though I’m not sure long term what the best spot for him is.
Peale
@Brachiator: agreed. If I were Hispanic and not a citizen (and even if I were) and the election looks to be close, I’m outta Texas and Arizona. And I’m making sure a don’t spend any time in anyplace with a sovereign citizen sherif. When trump says deportation when an immigrant is arrested, I think he means that. These guys do not respect the right of people to live where they want to and there’s not going to be a justice department that’s going to take anyone to court over this. Definitely not good sherif Joe, who will be changing the demographics of his county as soon as he knows he can. All in the name of revitalizing the downtowns of our cities.
I really object to that “can they assimilate test” cynically putting in affirmation of homosexuality. From a guy who has repeatedly promised the evangelicals that he’s going to appoint judges to overturn gay marriage. I’m offended by that. I’m not willing to be used to identify “unassimable” immigrants.