Donald Trump, back when life was just tyrants and skittles:
“I do have a relationship, and I can tell you that he’s very interested in what we’re doing here today,” Trump told Roberts, when asked about his relationship with Putin. “He’s probably very interested in what you and I are saying today and I’m sure he’s going to be seeing it in some form. But I do have a relationship with him and I think it’s very interesting to see what’s happened…
…I mean look, he’s done a very brilliant job in terms of what he represents and what he’s representing,” Trump said. “If you look at what he’s done with Syria, if you look at so many of the different things, he has really eaten our president’s lunch, let’s not kid ourselves.”
Donald Trump this morning:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let’s talk about Russia. You made a lotta headlines with Russia this week. What exactly is your relationship with Vladimir Putin?
TRUMP: I have no relationship with Putin. I have no relationship with Putin.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you have no relationship with Putin, then why did you say, in 2013, “I do have a relationship,” in 2014, “I spoke–”
TRUMP: Because he has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago, he said something, many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago. And I said, “He is a tough cookie,” or something to that effect. He said something nice about me. This has been going on. We did 60 Minutes together, by the way, not together together…
To his credit, The Clinton Guy Shocked By Blowjobs (™ Charles Pierce, but too damn good not to steal) pressed the Incompressible Jizztrumpet* just a wee bit on that bit of revisionist Trumpismo:
STEPHANOPOULOS: But– I– I just wanna clear this up. Because you did say, on three different occasions, you had a relationship with him. Now you say there’s none.
TRUMP: Well, I don’t know what it means by having a relationship…
Stephanopoulos asked Trump three times in all to square that circle, and by interview’s end, the mangled apricot hellbeast seemed to realize he had a bit of a problem, leading to this weak finish to the line begun above with “Well, I don’t know…”
I didn’t meet him. I haven’t spent time with him. I didn’t have dinner with him. I didn’t– go hiking with him. I don’t know– I– I wouldn’t know him from Adam except I see his picture, and I would know what he looks like.
Beyond looking on in awe at the sheer speed and volume of Trump’s lies (a strength to date, but, I’m coming to think, a growing liability in the general election phase), there’s the meat of the interview, and his attempt to have it both ways on the Ukraine and Crimea:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then why did you soften the GOP platform on Ukraine?
TRUMP: I wasn’t involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your people were.
TRUMP: Yes. I was not involved in that. I’d like to — I’d have to take a look at it. But I was not involved in that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you know what they did?
TRUMP: They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They took away the part of the platform calling for the provision of lethal weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves.
Why is that a good idea?
TRUMP: Well, look, you know, I have my own ideas. He’s not going into Ukraine, OK?
Just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right?
You can mark it down and you can put it down, you can take it anywhere you want.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he’s already there, isn’t he?
TRUMP: OK, well, he’s there in a certain way, but I’m not there yet. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama, with all the strength that you’re talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this, in the meantime, he’s going where — he takes — takes Crimea, he’s sort of — I mean…
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you said you might recognize that.
TRUMP: I’m going to take a look at it. But, you know, the people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also.
Now, that was under — just so you understand, that was done under Obama’s administration. And as far as the Ukraine is concerned, it’s a mess. And that’s under the Obama’s administration, with his strong ties to NATO.
So with all of these strong ties to NATO, Ukraine is a mess. Crimea has been taken. Don’t blame Donald Trump for that.
The key soundbite, of course, is “The people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”
There’s more: Stephanopoulos’s failure to press Trump on taxes (the Weasel-headed Fucknugget trotted out the audit excuse again, and Stephanopoulus let it pass); Trump’s claim he has no business ties to Russia, no debt, the claim “I’m so liquid, I don’t need debt,” and the truly bold lie, “If I need debt, if I want debt, I can get it from banks in New York City very easily.” Err, not so much. Note also that Trump’s sole remaining big-bank lender isn’t exactly robust.)
All of which is to say that while Capt. Khan’s parents make the overarching argument against Trump the person as president, this Russia stuff, and the question of who owns Donald Trump is the drip, drip, drip tale that reminds us that Trump the policy-maker poses a clear and present danger to American and global security.
In IOW, my friends, this interview is the sound of a story with legs.
*I find as I check the source that I misquoted yesterday’s invective. It was Cheeto-faced, ferret wearing shitgibbon, not as I had it: “Cheetos-faced, ferret-topped shitgibbon. The singular cheeto is clearly better, but I think ferret-topped scans better, so there.
Image: Rembrandt van Rijn, St Peter’s Denial, 1660. ETA: It will reward you to click on the link and look at a full rez version of this painting. Jesus being led away in chains on the right whilst Peter goes “No, no, no….” in glorious chiaroscuro.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Holy crap. And Republicans aren’t voluntarily bailing on this clown? Trump just said if he’s elected he will gladly screw the lot of them second something goes wrong.
gogol's wife
I keep trying to defend ferrets. Their fur is sleek and soft.
The line about “the people of Crimea would rather be with Russia” is right out of VVP’s lips. I assume Stephanopoulos said nothing about Obama’s organization of sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Crimea?
dmsilev
I assume we can take it as given that he’s ‘heard’ that from certain Russian and Russian-connected sources?
Villago Delenda Est
How can you tell when Donald Trump is lying?
When the asshole in the middle of his face is moving.
Villago Delenda Est
@dmsilev: BiP is his advisor on the Crimea.
dmsilev
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: There are a few remaining never-Trump holdouts (Lindsey Graham being probably the most notable), but I don’t think anyone who has endorsed (or even kinda-sorta-endorsed) him has rescinded that.
Fascinating example of game theory in action.
Kristine
Trump is Putin’s Chris Christie. The little bully knows the bigger bully when he sees him, and LB wants BB to like him sooo much.
So much psychology this election.
dmsilev
@Villago Delenda Est: Governance by Internet Troll. What could possibly go wrong?
gogol's wife
I’m actually almost beginning to believe that Trump is afraid for his life if he screws up.
I’ll admit, I’m getting a little into conspiracy-theory territory here. But Litvinenko, Politkovskaya, Nemtsov . . . .
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Trump and debt, by John Oliver
Wag
There aren’t enough Junior Mints (my movie going treat instead of popcorn) in the world to satisfy my appetite for and enjoyment of the destruction of the GOP and the long needed downfall of Herr Trump.
Keith P.
Jeez, this is why Sarah Palin was so dangerous. She was and is a fucking moron, but she paved the way for another truly unprepared person who is able to successfully able to con the GOP. This guy should be a joke, but instead he’s being treated seriously.
BTW: Anderson Cooper would not have let go as easily on this stuff, but at least it wasn’t Wolf “Next-Question” Blitzer-terrible.
JPL
@gogol’s wife: General Flynn appeared on Russian TV as a guest commentator. I wonder how much he was paid by the Kremlin. just curious..
Trentrunner
Chance that Mike Pence quits the ticket: Up to 46% as of the last hour.
ThresherK
@gogol’s wife: I’m just old enough to remember the brouhaha when President Ford said the Poles were not repressed by a foriegn power.
This statement rings the same bell.
Villago Delenda Est
@Keith P.: Wolf “but surely the little boy can be floating under the balloon” Blitzer? The guy who doesn’t understand that it’s a simple question of weight ratios? That Wolf Blitzer?
redshirt
Like Trump, I, too, have no relationship with that Putin.
Honest!
Mike G
Willful ignorance. He’s making shit up based on scraps of what he’s heard, and he doesn’t even care if it’s accurate or not. Repubs seem to think that saying complete bullshit forcefully makes it true and shows strength.
But we’ve seen this before, Trump is basically a turbocharged version of GW Bush.
gogol's wife
@ThresherK:
Yes, but back then we had a functioning MSM. He got called on it immediately.
And ironically, he was just being inartful in his phrasing. He wasn’t supporting the USSR.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
A quite wealthy great uncle once told my dad that you don’t get rich by using your own money.
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Now I want someone to write lyrics to “Born Free” called “Born Rich”.
Intertubes, get busy on this!
Baud
@Trentrunner: Doubt it. Pence probably thinks he’ll be president after Trump dies in office or is impeached (both plausible given who Trump is), or that Trump will be lazy and allow Pence to handle the actual governing part of the presidency.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
I don’t expect Pence to drop out. If he had any moral compass he wouldn’t have agreed to be on the ticket in the first place. I wish it were Christie who were being dragged to the bottom of the sea, but I guess that might happen too.
Chris
@Keith P.:
Don’t put too much blame on her.
Palin paved the way for Trump, but Dubya paved the way for Palin. And he wasn’t the first either. This strand of proud and aggressive ignorance and antiintellectualism has been in the water in America for a long time, and in the modern era, so has GOP cultivation of it.
Eric U.
@Trentrunner: I don’t see how Pence quits. OTOH, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone witnesses him clicking his heels together while repeating, “there’s no place like home, no place like home ….”
@Chris: In my experience, the first Republican that was widely acknowledged by Republicans to be an idiot was Reagan. But that was ok because reasons.
Schlemazel Khan
@redshirt:
OK, we had a brief fling, really more of a one night stand. I left 50 rubles on the night stand for him & we have had no relationship since
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan: Well, except for the love child…
Baud
@gogol’s wife: I don’t think this will happen, but if Hillary really wanted to get under Trump’s skin, she would ignore Trump and start running against Pence because “everyone knows he would be the de facto president.”
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Donald Jr. told Kasich that his role in a Drumpf Assmalistration as Vice-President would be domestic and foreign policy, while Drumpf concentrates on
looting the treasurymaking America great again.Chris
@redshirt:
You know, what’s almost as fucked up is that he just admitted he had no fucking clue what his own platform said. That in itself should’ve been hammered on.
Schlemazel Khan
@Chris:
I am sorry if this is a repeat, I don’t remember where I saw the link but it is a great read from a life long Conservative Republican who now, finally, is willing to admit that the party and the movement is morally bankrupt and at a dead end.
A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, that fits perfectly with the comment right above yours.
Villago Delenda Est
@Schlemazel Khan: Needs to be in every thread from now through November, at least. Bits are cheap…cleaning up in the aftermath of a Drumpf Presidency will not be.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Aye, most complimentary! In both senses of the word!
Chris
@Schlemazel Khan:
Will read it, but I sadly don’t believe it’s going to die.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m starting to fall in love with the idea. Tim Kaine should give a speech calling Pence “the smart one.”
Suzanne
@Schlemazel Khan: I read that and thought it was great. I don’t understand why it took so long for anyone to just admit that the GOP is the party of white resentment. It’s so fucking evident.
GlennR
At this point it’s clear calling out Trump in any dispute is a three-stage process. Keep these three words always in mind: liar, weasel, whiner.
He will say something outrageous and untrue. Liar.
He’ll back off by claiming he was misquoted, he never said it, etc. Weasel.
Finally, he’ll complain the other guy hit him first, the game is rigged, everyone’s out to get him. Whiner.
Rinse. Repeat.
JPL
@Baud: haha The Vice Presidential debate should be interesting, although if Trump drops out of the debates, won’t Pence?
NotMax
“I’m going to take a look at it. But, you know, the people of
Crimeathe South, from what I’ve heard, would rather be withRussiathe Confederacy than where they were. And you have to look at that, also.”the Conster, la Citoyenne
That quote is the whole psychological tell. Obama took up residence in his head the night of the WHCD. That’s Putin’s appeal to Trump – the schoolyard tyrant has schoolyard bully/Trump’s back.
Baud
@JPL: Good question. I don’t know what Pence would do there.
Amir Khalid
@gogol’s wife:
If screwing up this candidacy could cost him his life, and he’s reacting to that fear with one unforced error after another, then Trump is doomed.
Villago Delenda Est
@Suzanne: NO LONGER the Party of Abraham Lincoln.
The Party of Jefferson Davis.
Chris
@Baud:
They’re Pinky and the Brain… yes Pinky and the Brain… one is a genius, the other’s insane…
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@gogol’s wife: Its not his life he’s in fear of.
Its the Russians cutting his credit line.
rk
I was just telling someone today about how it’s almost become impossible to criticize Trump in that I don’t know where to begin. Every single day it’s something new, and what was horrible yesterday is nothing compared to today. I’m at a loss for words. At this point all I can say is that he’s an evil swine and so is anyone who votes for him. I’ve never seen such an awful, awful person run for any office. No one displays this level of evil and survives in a democracy. Yet here we are.
Gin & Tonic
I read that transcript earlier. Trump really, truly, doesn’t know anything about anything.
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
That aint my baby!!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Seems like the Russians might be wanting to be paid back – Manafort is their bag man.
Suzanne
@Villago Delenda Est: Trump voters don’t deal with pluralism very well.
JPL
@Schlemazel Khan: It’s unfortunate though, that he won’t vote for Hillary because of the Supreme Court, even though he admitted that Trump’s choice might not be better.
He is part of the problem.
Amir Khalid
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Depending on who your creditors are, that’s not necessarily a difference.
Capri
@Chris: That’s pretty much par for the course. Most candidates ignore their party’s platform. It’s big deal to the democrats this cycle because allowing Bernie to play a role in its formation was a way of buying him off. They are not binding and mean nothing in any real sense.
MattF
@JPL: There’s quite a few homless conservative intellectuals these days.
Schlemazel Khan
@Suzanne:
If I had the guys email address I would send him a link to the Atwater interview where he explained it very clearly, “You start out saying nigger, nigger, nigger, then you can’t do that any more because it hurts you”. This guy really isn’t much of an intellectual if he JUST discovered it is white racism that drives the GOP, it has for 50 years.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid: “It would be a shame if something were to happen to your daughter Ivanka, Mr. Trump.”
? Martin
Just to be clear, nothing is different about Trump today than a month ago. It’s just that until the convention, nobody really put the screws to him. He’s behaving exactly as he has the entire time, but the stakes are higher, the issues more direct, the contrasts starker. I don’t see him showing for the debate – he’s getting embarrassed out there and he knows it.
And when Trump questioned why the mother didn’t speak, he was really questioning whether she could speak english. The religious accusation layered on top of that.
Schlemazel Khan
@JPL:
Oh no doubt, he IS the problem because he has refused to admit what was obvious to the casual observer. He refused because he was very happy to use those useful idiots to elect people who will make him richer. Now that the con is about to fall apart he wants to have plausible deniability when the stinky hits the whirly.
? Martin
And why is nobody criticizing the NFL for setting a schedule that conflicts with the process of electing President? Don’t they care about America? Isn’t the leader of the free world more important?
hovercraft
@gogol’s wife:
Pence was in danger of losing his governors race this year, which would have been the end of his political career. Running with Trump he can blame a loss on the top of the ticket, and come back next time as the losing vp candidate. I don’t know how he explains agreeing to be on the ticket, and the baggage that will bring, but I guess he saw that as his best option. And there is the off chance they could win and he’ll be the de facto president.
hovercraft
@Chris:
How do you spell potatoe ?
rk
@Schlemazel Khan:
I wasn’t impressed. He didn’t realize the obvious till Trump came along? He supported Marco Rubio, the lazy do nothing grifter senator who took five seconds to change his stance from pro to anti immigration reform. I think Avik Roy is smart enough to know that the ship is going down and it’s time to find another home for his “intellectual services”. People like Roy are more despicable than Trump.
Schlemazel Khan
@? Martin:
No, nothing is more important to the NFL than the NFL. Their business is a meat grinder that chews up & spits out young men like sausage. Thats not important. The election is just something that gets in the way every 4 years
JPL
@rk: Bravo!
Suzanne
Just read this piece about Trump and the Khans. Made me ruminate….what is complaint about “political correctness” other than a semiotic dominance ritual?
I should note that I used to be a graphic designer and work in marketing, so I interpret things through the lens of semiotics a lot.
Jeffro
@JPL:
Imagine what that – the sight of an American general (Flynn) so thoroughly in bed with the Russians/Putin – must feel like to our military commanders. That, and the prospect of having to serve a Trump administration or resign. Wow. No wonder General Allen is on a tear.
burnspbesq
@dmsilev:
From Bob’s lips to Don’s ear.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@? Martin:
Trump is a psychological study in projection. I’ve read accounts from people who said they’ve heard Melania be instructed to not speak – maybe because he’s a sexist pig and he’s conflicted by her heavy accent in social situations. In any event, always ascribe everything Trump says about others to himself and you’ll be right on.
schrodinger's cat
@redshirt: Then why is your shirt, red?
SFAW
@Keith P.:
Trump didn’t “con” them. The so-called “establishment” allegedly opposed him until it became obvious he was going to win the primary, then they fell into line, as they always do.
Trump didn’t “con” the “base” that voted for him — he did a reverse-Atwater, and they LOVED it. He didn’t have to lie about the “important” stuff of hating on browns, Lie-berals, Hillary, etc. And when he is caught in one of his numerous lies re: what he has/hasn’t done/said, it only reinforces his standing with his base — a/k/a the Common Clay of the New America.
This is, in no small part, the result of the 30-year (or maybe 50-year?) Rethug policy of destroying public education. Cyril Kornbluth called it 65 years ago, although he probably thought it would take longer to get here.
RaflW
BTW, horrendous shitrocket Piers Morgan is still horrible.
That is all.
SFAW
@schrodinger’s cat:
Blame Gene Roddenberry for that.
hovercraft
So some jackass from the Daily Mail is trying to save Trump by acknowledging he fucked up but then pivoting to Pat Smith the mother of Shaun Smith (Benghazi), and saying that Hillary basically killed him, whereas Trump was merely insensitive. It’s not about the Khan’s this is about Benghazi and the e-mail scandals.
EDIT The media is being biased because the Khans’ are on everywhere, but no one but Fox will put Pat Smith on. Hillary lied to her face, and then called her a liar. Host pushes back that Hillary said she misheard, did not say the mother was lying. Jackass replies that that can be interpreted as calling her a liar, therefore she called her a liar.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Gin & Tonic: Just like his supporters.
Elmo
No way Pence drops. There is a deal already made with the House R leadership – if Trump wins, they will pick one of the various frauds and financial scandals and impeach him, making Pence the President.
You heard it here first.
Suzanne
@Schlemazel Khan: No shit.
I really think, though, that the white resentment is more than just political. I believe that many white people, especially those who don’t have a college degree and/or are working class, resent that they have fallen down the status ladder in this country culturally, and so they have aligned themselves with the party who tells them that racism and sexism and lack of scientific literacy and owning a fucking armory and love of Jeebus are good things. This is why I think that every election for the rest of my lifetime will be close, no matter how loathsome one or both of the candidates. Ultimately, this is about culture, and white racists are pissed that theirs is dying.
Baud
@hovercraft: It’s the Daily Mail. That’s like England’s Breitbart, no?
Keith P.
I can’t get over how Trump claims that Russia will simply not invade the Crimea with him there. Forgetting they already did (and the “well, they like it” response from Trump) for now, this is even scarier than W’s old bit about how he’d keep gas prices down by “jaw-boning” (he didn’t; gas hit $4 under W.). More magical thinking unless Trump is in cahoots with Russia, so both options are terrible.
dogwood
@rk:
Kathleen Parker’s column today is crystal clear that what enabled the party to end up with Trump is connected to Nixon’s Southern strategy, and the promotion of nitwits like Sarah Palin. She can be faulted for going along with it, but at least she’s not placing the blame on Trump alone.
SFAW
@Schlemazel Khan:
“Republican intellectual”? Not enough of them in this world to populate an outfield.
piratedan
well… I guess Hillary really is a bridge too far for them… because
1) She’s going to tax the fuck out of the rich to pay for the shit that she wants to get done
2) women and minorities will be given a seat at the table to make decisions
3) we’re gonna try and fix shit for everyone, that means infrastructure, giving science back to the scientists
4) improve the ACA so that there are fewer people getting crunched by the loopholes
5) corporations will find it in their best interest to be better corporate citizens
6) it won’t be considered a god given right to own a fucking bazooka or gatling gun and people that have a criminal past or one of severe mental issues won’t be allowed to own them.
7) people will be allowed access to vote more easily
8) immigrants will only have one or two flaming hoops to hurdle through instead of 6 or 7 and the obstacle course of doom
No wonder the GOP is scared shitless, it sounds like fucking sanity on the hoof and we all know you can’t have that.
different-church-lady
@Trentrunner: Pence will never “quit” the ticket. One of two things would happen:
a) He’d become the top of the ticket
b) He’d have some kind of “health crisis” that would force him to “step down” from the ticket.
schrodinger's cat
deleted
burnspbesq
@? Martin:
Ha. To NFL fans, nothing is more important than organized brain trauma.
burnspbesq
@Elmo:
Trump is already conjuring up shit out of whole cloth. Don’t you start.
germy
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodinger’s cat: She can speak English, and has, on Lawrence O’Donnell’s program, at least. What is difficult for her as when it comes to anything touching on her lost son, she’s choked with emotion. The picture of CPT Humayun Khan on the jumbo tron greatly upset her, as any photo of her son does.
different-church-lady
@Schlemazel Khan: If I were Trump I’d be more worried about Goddell than Putin.
RaflW
@? Martin:
Good god. You think you know a horrible scumbag, but then you realize he is just that much worse than you imagined.
JPL
@different-church-lady: He signed a bill calling for funerals for a miscarried fetus. Of course one would have a choice between internment, or cremation. He’s as sick as the rest of them.
hovercraft
@? Martin:
Exactly, this is why Mr. and Mrs. Khan choose to speak out at the DNC, he said that it was Trumps behavior over the last 13 months. The rapists, Curiel, and the muslim ban comments just to name a few, all of them compelled them to speak out.
schrodinger's cat
@? Martin: Ghazala Khan most probably comes from an middle class to an upper class Pakistani family. The probability that she could speak English was quite high. That Trump did not know this shows that he is an ignorant and entitled brat.
Knowledge of English is not so unique among a certain segment among the sub-continent. For them English is not exactly a foreign language. Schools whose language of instruction is English have existed in India (Pakistan) for more 100 years.
Anecdata alert:
My uncle has a collection of Shakespeare’s entire works that he inherited from his grandfather (my great grandfather) who worked for the British Port Authority more than 100 years ago. Some of those of books were prizes that he had been awarded in grade school.
SiubhanDuinne
@gogol’s wife:
One would think he’d be a bit more careful not to screw up, then, wouldn’t one?
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
That’s pretty much exactly what it is. It’s insisting that straight white dudes get to dictate acceptable topics of conversation.
You know what’s probably the topic most constrained by political correctness right now? It’s not race. It’s guns. If you want to talk about the massive overproliferation of guns that’s killing our fellow Americans right now, you have to choose your words very carefully and make sure you make plenty of bows to “responsible” gun owners who of course are totally different than those irresponsible people doing mass murders. You have to be sure you talk about “magazines,” not “clips,” or you get hooted down. The entire conversation has to take place using the language that gun nuts prefer or you’ll get castigated for being politically incorrect.
Jeffro
@Elmo:
The only thing I hear is you lighting up a crack pipe, amigo. You can’t possibly think that the Rs – any of them – are going to take on Donnie Boy when a) they didn’t during the primaries, b) they sure aren’t standing up to him now, and c) they could just keep him propped up and loot the store for 4 years? You don’t think Trump would blow the GOP to holy heck on his way out?
Let’s stick to some more likely scenarios…like the one that has me donating to the DCCC, DSCC, Clinton/Kaine, and maybe even a few select D Senate campaigns. Now’s no time to have a full change jar in the study, that’s for sure.
trnc
Dear Michael Flynn and other military advisors to Donald Trump,
Who sucks, you or your client? “All of the above” is an acceptable answer.
BR
@schrodinger’s cat:
That seems less likely given that they moved to UAE first. Also, her English is not nearly as good as it would be if she were raised in an English-speaking wealthy family.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne: DING DING DING DING DING
Those who bitch about “Political Correctness” are far and away the most ardent practitioners of it.
hovercraft
@Baud:
I’m going to assume so, given the RWNJ talking points. Pat Smith is sympathetic, but her claims are simply not true. Bringing her on and not challenging her would be irresponsible, so Fox books her.
Steve in the ATL
@redshirt:
And yet would-be candidate Baud has repeatedly failed to say the same….
different-church-lady
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Well, one reason a liar tells his “subordinates” not to speak is because they might give away the lies. You can’t have more than one person at a time operating the reality distortion field.
The other angle is that emotional manipulators cannot understand a universe where everyone else doesn’t act with the same motivations they harbor. That’s where the projection comes in. Trump can’t imagine another reason why Ms. Kahn* wouldn’t speak in that situation, because his reason for not letting his own wife speak would be exactly the same.
SiubhanDuinne
@Trentrunner:
Are you saying that Mike Pence has a sliver of self-respect (or, more likely, self-protection) remaining?
Maybe Chris Christie’s dream will come true after all.
Also: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
JPL
@trnc: Carter Page is a top foreign policy adviser. He thinks that it’s important to secure Putin’s ties, in going after the middle east, and is willing to sell his soul to the devil, for his help.
The biggest problem Trump will have, if he were to win, is to find sane advisers, to join the team. That ship sailed a long time ago.
Schlemazel Khan
@rk:
Yup. I believe I agreed with you exactly in a comment someplace here.
He is protecting his grift & allowing himself to pretend he means well
hovercraft
@RaflW:
Also implying that she was under “sharia law”, by saying maybe she wasn’t ‘allowed’ to speak. Wake up people, sharia is already here and the democrats put it up on display at the DNC. These are no longer dog whistles they are air horns.
PsiFighter37
@germy: It takes a big man/turtle to put out a statement and not appear in public to answer questions.
Mnemosyne
@Villago Delenda Est:
To continue the topic of semiotics (aka signs and symbols) the Khans made it very clear that they were appearing as a team and that Mr. Khan was speaking for both of them by wearing the same shade of blue (her dress and veil, his tie).
And if Trump thought he had a gender gap problem before now, attacking the grieving mother of a war hero didn’t do him any favors, to say the least.
? Martin
@burnspbesq: Well, it was a rhetorical question. But one that you’d think some reporter would consider asking Trump whether the NFL is more important than electing the president, and why he didn’t ask the NFL to change their date.
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: I’m excited to hear what Paul Ryan has to say. And then I’m VERY excited to hear what Trump says about what McConnell and Ryan have said.
Actually scratch that, I want Trump’s response to the Kaisch statement more than any of that.
Schlemazel Khan
@Suzanne:
Many no longer have a curtain rod on which to cook their sparrows so it is almost as if they are no longer better than those people The butthurt is palpable.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: True
from the nytimes
ThresherK (GPad)
@Mnemosyne: Spousal ThresherK was awake for CBS Sunday Morning, which was all about guns in America. She said I didn’t miss much by sleeping in. I guess a lot of things were simply ” Wolf Blitzered from Nowhere”.
Media self-examination about how scared they are of riling gun nuts is non-existent.
Mnemosyne
Just a small thing, people:
Khan is the South Asian last name.
Kahn is a German Jewish last name.
different-church-lady
@JPL:
Probably the best possible choice, given the circumstances.
schrodinger's cat
@BR: I haven’t heard her speak. My family is not particularly wealthy but we have always valued learning and education more than dollars and cents or Rs. and paisa, if you will.
ThresherK (GPad)
@JPL: The only thing which would make this funnier (for D’s) is if Pence’s son got captured. (Like John McCain, of course.)
I’m too good a man to wish that to happen, but not so good a man that I don’t want some to ask Trump that hypothetical.
Eric U.
@? Martin: Trump didn’t worry about competing with the NFL when he force his arena league to go up against the NFL. Or maybe he’s admitting that was a mistake in his own way
Schlemazel
I realize I added “Khan” to my nym a couple months back as a joke about my desire to go all W.T.Sherman on states that wanted to succeed. I know feel it is inappropriate to in anyway look like I am trying to associate with the loss the Khan family has suffered so I am going back to just the old loser handle out of respect.
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Not one third of an outfield.
trnc
@rk:
Every journey begins with a single step, Grasshopper. Also, it’s not all on you. If a Trump supporter tells you he’s great, ask that person to explain how hiring people for a for-profit business is a sacrifice equal to dying as a soldier, or how he plans to stop Putin from invading a country that he actually invaded 2 years ago. If that person’s support doesn’t change, there’s nothing you can do.
redshirt
@Schlemazel: KHAAAN?
RK
NBC News:
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Is that like calling a janitor a sanitation engineer, where a better title is a replacement for a better salary? Give them the title, republican intellectual, so they feel like their typing of bullshit is worth something?
Schlemazel
@redshirt:
Maybe I’ll go with “William Tecumseh Schlemazel” some day but not today
RaflW
@Mnemosyne: In terms of guns, I’m more than happy to be politically incorrect. Way too many gun owners have been complete ignoramuses and deadly fools. And the NRA makes the cigarette lobby look like a knitting circle. Fuck ’em.
trnc
@JPL:
If Trump wins, do you think it will matter to him whether his advisors are sane? If he doesn’t value competence now, there’s no way he’ll value it after winning.
Villago Delenda Est
@RK: Outright lie.
schrodinger's cat
@JPL: Don’t worry, Putin has the staffing issues under control.
redshirt
@trnc: If Trump wins, the sane will envy the insane.
D58826
@germy: I understand that Yurtle is also going to go out on a limb and boldly back the idea that the sun comes up in the east and water is wet.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Eric U.: Pedant alert: Do not confuse Arena Football with the USFL. (I have a pile of ticket stubs from three teams in the former, and still sorta miss the latter.)
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@RK:
Manafort is Russia’s bag man to collect on Trump’s debt. Everything is coming from him. It’s only a matter of time before the media will have to address this.
gogol's wife
@schrodinger’s cat:
Her English is fine. Her accent is stronger than that of her husband.
Baud
Alaska should vote Dems this year if they don’t want to be returned to Russia in a Trump administration as payment for debts owed.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
Also look out, Northern California. They’re going to get Fort Ross up and running again.
Steve in the ATL
@ThresherK (GPad): I went to a few WFL games back in the ’70’s! The Memphis team had Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick, and Paul Warfield from the ’72 Dolphins. With future Dallas Cowboys QB Danny White under center. In fact, we used to see Danny White at our grocery store, Big Star, the very store after which Alex Chilton named his band.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Drumpf has already queued up Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania as a payment.
Barbara
@Suzanne: Here is what I think we have learned this year, that there are at least two and more likely three strong currents in the Republican Party. These are dominionists (Ted Cruz), those voting out of white resentment, and those who basically just want low taxes. Trump has exposed the limits of the overlap. Not that there is none, but I guarantee you that so long as the dog whistles were subtle enough people like Meg Whitman and Avik Roy could convince themselves that most Republucan voters thought like they do (that is, were united by an economic vision that revolves around low taxes). Now the more honest and braver souls among them can’t deny the reality that it is not the case.
raven
@Steve in the ATL: I took the train from Champaign up to Chicago to see Herschel play with the Generals the summer before I moved to Athens. I also had several buddies who played for the Chicago Fire in the old days.
SiubhanDuinne
@? Martin:
In 2012, the VP debate on October 11 was scheduled opposite an NFL game and baseball divisional playoffs in both leagues. The second Presidential debate was October 16 (ALCS game) and the third was October 22 (NFL game and NLCS game).
I don’t remember any of the candidates crying about those dates, or whining that it was all so unfair to baseball and football fans.
trnc
@redshirt: Invest in Xanax.
gogol's wife
The media won’t do it. The Republican establishment won’t do it. This brave couple is doing what needs to be done — bringing Trump’s moral bankruptcy to the center of the conversation. See NYTimes.
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: Funny thing is that the objections Trump raised about Ghazala Khan were the same ones I read in the comment sections of articles about Khans. Trump is an internet troll come to life. He mainstreams all the crank theories one finds in the sewers of the internet.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Steve in the ATL: Ahh, the WFL was before my time, but I did read the book, “While the Getting’s Good”, I think it was called
In Uni-Watch, run by the internet’s ground zero of uniform geeking, Paul Lukas, the. Southern California Sun’s fuschia and orange unis are famous.
Would you believe I have a game-jersey (never issued or worn) from the Memphis Showboats?
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne: The inherent problem that is absolutely unavoidable is that the Presidential election campaign takes place basically between Labor Day and Election Day, and that it coincides with the first half of the NFL season and the end of the MLB season. Conflicts are inevitable and unavoidable. C’est la vie. But Drumpf bitches about it anyways…never mind that the debate dates were chosen in September of 2015 and the NFL published its schedule for this year in April of 2016…
gogol's wife
@schrodinger’s cat:
When he said it to Stephanopoulos, he said something like, “I see lots of people noticed that.” I assume he’s talking about the comments sections in the internet sewers he frequents.
raven
@ThresherK (GPad): Cyril Pinder of the Fire asked me “whatchoo got that’s good for the head”??
SFAW
@Ruckus:
Some people say that Larison is worthy of being called “intellectual.” So that’s right field. But outside of him …
@Ruckus:
No that’s just a euphemism. “Republican intellectual” is more along the lines of “Vogon poet(ry)” or “liberal fascists” — something that doesn’t exist in nature, only in (intentionally or unintentionally) humorous writing.
FlipYrWhig
@? Martin: I’m virtually positive that he meant “Muslim men don’t let their women speak, so who cares what he thinks.”
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: I waded through some of the comments under GK’s WashPost editorial.
Trump supporters have theorized that HRC’s campaign wrote that op-ed.
trnc
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s a moot point, anyway. The debate schedule was determined last September when there were 5 Democrats and 17 Republicans in the race. The NFL game schedule was made in April, 2016. If Penalty Flag Donald wants to scream at someone about the scheduling conflict, he should take it up with Goodell.
schrodinger's cat
@FlipYrWhig: Isn’t that what good Christian husbands like Pence and Trump expect of their wives?
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: Especially since the fucking NFL decided to kill Thursday night NCAA games!
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yes, but their wives would be subordinating themselves in the name of Real True Christianity, not a false “religion” like Islam, so it’s totally different.
D58826
Had forgotten this but there is a tweet that in 2005 W defended Gold Star mom Cindy Sheehan from the rightwing ghouls. So it didn’t really start with ‘old little hands’. He just pumped it to an 11
Tokyokie
@gogol’s wife: Well, his statement may be correct, inasmuch as most of the Ukraine-leaning residents of the Crimea have largely moved off the peninsula and to Ukraine proper.
rikyrah
shonda rhimesVerified account
@shondarhimes shonda rhimes Retweeted Evan Smith
Oh Donald. Do not mess with a fallen hero’s mama. Every mother on earth will come for your wig.
dmsilev
@schrodinger’s cat: Well, since Trump himself theorized that Hillary’s speechwriters wrote Mr. Khan’s DNC speech, his fans are just following Dear Leader’s example.
Gene108
@Mike G:
Bush, Jr was super fucking careful about all his public utterances. He tip-toed the line to falsehood but never crossed it. He never actually said Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. He just juxtaposed sentences sentences of (paraphrasing) “OBL is evil for planning 9/11. Saddam is also evil for gassing his own people.” People just let those ideas flow together, because they came after each other in his speeches.
His words were so finely tuned that he had plausible deniability for all his Administrations screw ups. There was nothing anyone could pin on him or higher ups the Admin, with regards to their culpability in anything.
Edit: Truml is not Bush. So much of what Trump says can be proven false, in real time, as he is talking.
schrodinger's cat
@dmsilev: What is the basis for the theory other than their racism?
Villago Delenda Est
@dmsilev: There were no words on the teleprompter. That speech came directly from Khizr Khan’s heart (with some coaching help from that nice lady in the hijab standing next to him.)
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
I can’t stand Pence, for all the reasons we all know. But I am finding myself just an eensy teensy bit sorry for him in this situation.
Not enough to shed actual tears, however.
rikyrah
Love stories like this:
Democratic National Convention is not about Hillary Clinton; it’s about a 10-year-old boy
By Mark Harmon
………………………………………………….
Yesterday on the shuttle bus I learned who this convention is about — and it’s not Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, President Obama, or any of the big-name speakers. It’s about someone not here, a 10-year-old boy in Coon Rapids, Minnesota. His name is Abdullahi, and I was seated next to his proud father, Abdul Ahmed.
Ahmed, 38, is a Hillary Clinton delegate. He came to the U.S. when he was just a teenager as his family fled Somalia, becoming one of 80,000 Somali émigrés in Minnesota. He now lives in a middle-class neighborhood, works as an accountant, and has high standards and great expectations for his children.
“This is the greatest country in the world,” he says. “I hope we don’t destroy it by electing Trump.”
Ahmed compares Donald Trump to the warlords who wrecked Somalia by dividing people by tribes and blaming others.
Ahmed did not come to this conclusion lightly. He believes strongly in democracy, moderation, and respect. He intended to take his kids to both Republican and Democratic events, but he was turned off by Trump’s anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant comments. He preferred the inclusion shown by Democrats.
So Abdul Ahmed began the caucus process, and Abdullahi took charge. He prodded his dad to become a delegate. At the state convention he was going around the room asking for votes for his dad. Then the kid (who’ll be in fifth grade this fall) told Governor Mark Dayton that Abdullahi Admed will be president one day, but first his goal is to be governor by the time he’s 25.
SiubhanDuinne
@Schlemazel:
You are a mensch.
Steve in the ATL
@ThresherK (GPad):
Holy @#$%! And whatever happened to Pepper Rogers?
SiubhanDuinne
@RK:
These people are all absolutely shameless, aren’t they?
Steve in the ATL
@raven: Went to a couple of Fire games, but never saw Herschel. It was definitely the mildest crowd I had ever seen at Soldier Field.
J R in WV
@rk:
No, no no! No one is MORE despicable than Trump. Roy is down there in that hole, helping Trump dig deeper, but NO ONE is worse than Trump. No one.
Otherwise, we often agree. But no one is worse than Trump. Well, maybe the hands-on guys, the ones actually doing the lynching.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@piratedan: Re: your #8. Atrios had a good piece on that yesterday:
Someone should ask all the Teabagger brainiacs how a Rio Grande Wall is going to stop people who overstay their visas…
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: come for your wig! Love it!
Mike J
@Steve in the ATL: I have a Memphis Grizzlies pennant somewhere in the attic.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Steve in the ATL: Hey, after they went belly-up, these things could be had fairly cheap. I tried getting a couple others, but in the days of hoping the city library had out-of-state phonebooks it wasn’t easy.
The USFL prodded the NFL into the 2-pt conversion,and instant replay, a la the ABA and the 3-pt field goal. It did serve some purpose.
(Time to put an onion on my belt.)
SFAW
@Steve in the ATL:
Didn’t she and Tony Stark hook up?
gogol's wife
@Tokyokie:
Right. I was thinking of the original inhabitants pre-invasion.
raven
@Steve in the ATL: The stock car races were much crazier!
Villago Delenda Est
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Well, most of them are white, or can pass for white, so no big deal.
Tokyokie
@Mnemosyne: Like there’s any difference to Trump and his followers.
SFAW
@Mike J:
Piffle. I have (or had, maybe it got throwed out/blowed up) a New York Stars T-shirt.
Schlemazel
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
There will be no visas unless the person has an ankle monitor!
SFAW
@Tokyokie:
Jerk! Most of his followers are NOT in hock to Russia or Putin, nor are they doing Putin’s bidding.
Mike in NC
Drumpf is probably in the midst of negotiations with the oligarchs to build a Trump Tower in Yalta. It’ll be yoooouge and classy with a fine view of the Black Sea.
SFAW
@Mike in NC:
That’s because he’s hoping to meet Baron Mikel Scicluna, and Manafort ain’t about to wise him up about that.
Psych1
Unlike Hillary’s advisors, Michael Flynn does not believe that going to war with Russia is a good idea.
SoupCatchers
@gogol’s wife:
It would be appropriate, since the original Fort was abandoned as a money losing business venture, for Russia to just re-brand it as Fort Trump and paint the stockade gold.
Villago Delenda Est
@Psych1: Laddie, I think you need to rephrase that.
ThresherK (GPad)
@SFAW: You then know that those Stars became the first Charlotte Hornets. I’m a kind of a sucker for that kinda thing (see, too, Boston Breakers, Memphis Grizzlies, Montreal Alouettes, not to mention so many historical names revived for MLS).
gogol's wife
@Psych1:
Ne pizdi.
SFAW
@ThresherK (GPad):
Didn’t. But, on the other hand, don’t care.
Not disrespecting your knowledge by any means.
But weren’t the Alouettes a CFL team? I recognize the name, that’s the association my tiny braims have with it, but been wrong enough to know I might be, yet again.
Brachiator
Jill Stein might say:. Trump’s appeasement of Putin proves that he is better than that warmongering Hillary Clinton. And giving the Ukraine away is better for climate change.
I can’t believe what a farce this mess is. But I am enjoying watching Trump dig a deeper hole for himself with every dumb ass thing he says.
scottinnj
We know what Trump is, but what it is time to do if you have a GOP Senator or a GOP Congressman (or a GOP representative in your state legislature) is call them up and ask ‘do you endorse Trump – and if you do it is a deal breaker’.
My view is that if you are GOP Representatve – you are floating alone in the ocean waters – time to throw some Cinderblocks at them.
redshirt
@SFAW: I thought all CFL teams were the Roughriders.
Schlemazel
@Psych1:
Name names – which of Hillary’s advisors say we should go to war with Russia, dates and links would be required or I call bullshit
BR
@Brachiator:
As I said on another thread, someone needs to force Stein to comment on Trump/Khans situation. Anyone on twitter who can tweet at her?
J R in WV
@schrodinger’s cat:
I watched and heard Mrs. Khan speak when they were both interviewed, and that editorial is in her speech!
She wrote that, perhaps with a little polishing by her husband, but that is her speech pattern at work there. She needed nothing from Hillary to help her with what she had to say.
So, yeah, internet sewer rats, thinking the older Muslim woman isn’t literate in English, or anything else. I’ve worked elbow to elbow with Indian and Pakistani men and women, many of them spoke English as well as I do. Some have some accent, but their usage and vocabulary is tops. Mrs. Khan doesn’t need help to call out Mr. Trump.
rikyrah
Oliver DarcyVerified account
@oliverdarcy
Clinton camp responds to Trump’s Ukraine comments: “What is he talking about? Russia is already in Ukraine”
JPL
Harry Reid’s statement on Republican leadership
SFAW
@redshirt:
No, there’s also the Moosetippers, the Quebec-wha?, the Frozen A-bouts.
And I believe they play for the Gr-eh? Cup.
redshirt
@SFAW: The Bronze Touque.
japa21
Ryan has justified his support of trump, despite everything Trump has said, on the basis that a Clinton presidency would be worse. I would like for someone to ask him exactly how it would be worse and to provide support for all of his arguments.
SFAW
@redshirt:
Fair enough.
D58826
@japa21: You have a better chance of getting an answer from that dining room table Barney Frank made famous.
sukabi
@gogol’s wife: think you’re probably right. Drumpf has so many connections to the Russian oligarchs, and his campaign staff is littered with their own close ties… it would be irresponsible to not speculate.
Drumpf also likes to screw folks ovet, can’t see the Russians letting him get away with that.
Peking Man
@redshirt: @SFAW: Actually the old Ottawa team had a completely different name; it was the ‘Rough Riders’
japa21
@D58826: I know, which in itself is a form of answer. These folks need to be pinned to the wall.
sigaba
@Elmo: There’s just no way Trump gets impeached. No Republican is going to vote against Trump, they know they’d all get primaried.
Soylent Green
If Trump wins, there’s no way the Repubs would impeach him. Bad optics. They would install a team of operatives behind him to do all the actual work (just like they did with President Alzheimer) while keeping Trump’s calendar loaded with TV camera ops. The Congress would bring him bills to sign, none of which Donald would ever bother to read or be briefed on longer than needed to get the talking points down. Pence, meanwhile, would be shuttled off into total obscurity. They might send him to attend a foreign funeral or two. The real challenge for Trump’s minders would be keeping his mouth in check. That’s probably impossible.
bupalos
Drip drip drip is right. Here’s the top 6 stories on CNN right now:
Khan: Trump has no moral compass
Khan hits ‘height of ignorance’
Is Trump trying to get out of debates?
Billionaire Mark Cuban rips Trump
Trump adviser defends Melania nudes
Trump trapped in elevator
The “I guarantee up and down Putin is never going into Ukraine in an way” followed 4 seconds later by “OK, so he’s already there you say, so what…” is one of those things will make sane people question how he/we even got here. The guy really really is as happily ignorant as it’s possible to be. He’s past up Caribou Barbie level.
Robert Sneddon
@sigaba: One delicious outcome of a Trump impeachment would be for all the Democratic senators to abstain when the Articles reached the Senate. Impeachment requires a 2/3 majority of the Senate and without their ayes the impeachment fails. Pottery Barn rules.
Nicole
@Kristine: Brilliant!
gogol's wife
@bupalos:
I think he’s stumbled into this because it’s the Putin line that there are no Russians in Ukraine — those are Ukrainian freedom fighters. That, needless to say, is not the Western/USA/NATO line.
philadelphialawyer
@SiubhanDuinne:
Also, wouldn’t sports, particularly football, fans tend to be more in the Trump camp than non fans? If so, then the folks missing the debates to watch the game are more Trumpian than Clintonian, right? Which means Clinton has no chance to win them over, and is preaching to the choir of her own supporters who are watching the debate rather than game. While Trump keeps the football fans’ support by default.
The other thing, and this applies to the BernieBros too and their bullshit complaints as well, is that, during debate season there are “games” on all the time. Pro football is on Sundays, Sunday nights, Monday nights, and Thursday nights. College football is on Friday nights, Saturday and Saturday nights, and increasingly on midweek nights as well. Baseball is going through its pennant drive, and then its four tier system of post season competition, and it has games almost every day and night. Basketball and hockey are in their training camps and pre seasons. TV sports are omnipresent in the USA, and it is hard to schedule anything that won’t conflict with them, except, perhaps, during the daytime on a workday.
And actually, only one of the two NFL conflicting games (Green Bay v Carolina) is a good one, and so it looks like three out of the four total debates are NOT in conflict, at least not with “big” pro football games. So, please.
Omnes Omnibus
@philadelphialawyer:
Quoi?
sukabi
@JPL: hahaha, that’s going to leave a mark.
philadelphialawyer
@Omnes Omnibus: More male than female. Also, in my experience, big sports fan tend to trend conservative, Republican, authoritarian, trad gender role, etc.
japa21
@philadelphialawyer: I am a big sports fan, white and over 65. I am liberal, Democrat, definitely non-authoritarian, have no problems with gender roles, etc. And I am not the only one here that fits that category. Not sure how much being a sports fan defines one.
Omnes Omnibus
@philadelphialawyer: I’ll grant you the more male one, although there are a lot of female football fans. The others, my anecdata contradicts your anecdata.
maurinsky
@JPL: Well, it’s not like there were no warning signs that the GOP was running out of moral credit, if ever they had any. Reagan launched his campaign with a wink and nod to white supremacists.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Based on nothing but gut instinct, I bet NFL fans skew conservative compared to the average. NASCAR fans for sure.
philadelphialawyer
@japa21: Exceptions don’t disprove a generalization. I myself check off a lot of the same boxes as you do, and I like sports too. But, again, in my subjective, but somewhat extensive, experience, if you listen to sports radio, listen to the resentment of Black athletes, listen to the whole gestalt surrounding sports, it seems pretty clear that the audience, especially the hard core audience, leans as I said it leans.
On the NFL, specifically…
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/05/30/nfl-last-sports-bastion-of-white-male-conservatives/
“A recent Experian Simmons study shows that….Of people who identified themselves as part of the NFL fan base 83 percent were white, 64 percent were male, 51 percent were 45 years or older, only 32 percent made less than $60,000 a year, and, to finish the point, registered Republicans were 21 percent more likely to be NFL fans than registered Democrats. Another factoid: NFL fans were 59 percent more likely than the average American to have played golf in the last year. You think the NFL is a lunch-bucket league? Not unless the lunch bucket is from Hermes.
“But football’s appeal is more than demographics. The numbers reflect the values of white conservative males. No professional sport looks more overtly macho than the NFL, and none appears to take greater delight in violence — not even the National Hockey League, which has gone to great lengths to curb fisticuffs. The Michael Sam draft story revealed that none may be more homophobic. Where the National Basketball Association enthusiastically embraced Jason Collins when he announced he was gay, former Vikings punter Chris Kluwe has claimed that that he was released for advocating gay marriage and that his position coach made homophobic slurs. Then are the numerous player tweets against gays, as well as Miami Dolphin lineman and team captain Richie Incognito’s gay taunts against former teammate Jonathan Martin.
“But the league’s appeal to entrenched conservative values goes deeper still — to the heart of the relationship between labor and capital. No other professional league seems to exhibit the indifference, even contempt, to its own players that the NFL does to its athletes — which is why the former players have filed their suit. The record of concussions and the use of painkillers demonstrate that to the NFL — and many of its fans — players are essentially expendable, interchangeable, to be used up and then discarded. The fact that football players have never established a powerful union, as baseball and basketball players have, only shows how much those players have drunk the league’s Kool Aid. The career of the average NFL player lasts scarcely three years, yet it is the only professional league that doesn’t have guaranteed contracts.”
On the male/female thing, the most recent data I could find on NFL TV viewership is that it is over 60 per cent male. Given the gender gap in the polling between Clinton and Trump, this by itself proves my point.
philadelphialawyer
@japa21: Exceptions don’t disprove a generalization. I myself check off a lot of the same boxes as you do, and I like sports too. But, again, in my subjective, but somewhat extensive, experience, if you listen to sports radio, listen to the resentment of Black athletes, listen to the whole gestalt surrounding sports, it seems pretty clear that the audience, especially the hard core audience, leans as I said it leans.
On the NFL, specifically…
“A recent Experian Simmons study shows that….Of people who identified themselves as part of the NFL fan base 83 percent were white, 64 percent were male, 51 percent were 45 years or older, only 32 percent made less than $60,000 a year, and, to finish the point, registered Republicans were 21 percent more likely to be NFL fans than registered Democrats. Another factoid: NFL fans were 59 percent more likely than the average American to have played golf in the last year. You think the NFL is a lunch-bucket league? Not unless the lunch bucket is from Hermes.
“But football’s appeal is more than demographics. The numbers reflect the values of white conservative males. No professional sport looks more overtly macho than the NFL, and none appears to take greater delight in violence — not even the National Hockey League, which has gone to great lengths to curb fisticuffs. The Michael Sam draft story revealed that none may be more homophobic. Where the National Basketball Association enthusiastically embraced Jason Collins when he announced he was gay, former Vikings punter Chris Kluwe has claimed that that he was released for advocating gay marriage and that his position coach made homophobic slurs. Then are the numerous player tweets against gays, as well as Miami Dolphin lineman and team captain Richie Incognito’s gay taunts against former teammate Jonathan Martin.
“But the league’s appeal to entrenched conservative values goes deeper still — to the heart of the relationship between labor and capital. No other professional league seems to exhibit the indifference, even contempt, to its own players that the NFL does to its athletes — which is why the former players have filed their suit. The record of concussions and the use of painkillers demonstrate that to the NFL — and many of its fans — players are essentially expendable, interchangeable, to be used up and then discarded. The fact that football players have never established a powerful union, as baseball and basketball players have, only shows how much those players have drunk the league’s Kool Aid. The career of the average NFL player lasts scarcely three years, yet it is the only professional league that doesn’t have guaranteed contracts.”
On the male/female thing, the most recent data I could find on NFL TV viewership is that it is over 60 per cent male. Given the gender gap in the polling between Clinton and Trump, this by itself proves my point.
(leaving out link to avoid moderation)
Johannes
@gogol’s wife: I see the ferret as an innocent victim here, myself.
And they are sleek and sweet-natured, too!
Omnes Omnibus
@philadelphialawyer: Okay, fair enough.
sinnedbackwards
Some of you folks would do well to go read up on Crimea. Trump’s semi-coherent maundering about Crimea is “mostly true”, unlike the rest of his manure.
Crimea became part of Russia over 240 years ago; you may remember “Charge if the Light Brigade” was about a battle in the Crimean War in the 1850’s. Most Crimeans speak Russian; 2/3’s of Crimeans are Russian.
It was transferred to Ukraine as a “gift” by Kruschev in the 1950’s, probably contrary to the USSR “constitution”.
After the collapse of of the pro-Russian Ukrainian government a few years ago, most Crimean people and leaders wanted to rejoin Russia. The held a referendum (unauthorized by Ukraine) and voted overwhelmingly to do so.
While Russia was thick as thieves in involvement, and the process was extra-legal, there is no doubt it is what the majority of Crimeans wanted.
Kenneth Almquist
@Schlemazel Khan:
The article you linked to is an interesting read, but Avik Roy ignores the other liberal critique of the Republican Party: that it only represents the interests of the 1% (or more like the 0.01%). If that’s right (and I think it is), then the fundamental problem with the Republican Party is that it doesn’t represent the interests of most of its voters (or at least not their economic interests), so its got to do a variety of unsavory things to get votes. People like Avik Roy can be dishonest about the economics. Or the party can appeal to white nationalism.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@sinnedbackwards: There are lots of regulars here who are well acquainted with Ukraine, speaking the language, having regular visits there, etc. It’s safe to say that distilling it to a few sentences that ends up with a pro-Russia tilt isn’t the end of the story. ;-)
E.g. Stalin removing the Tartars.
It’s also safe to say that Trump didn’t know what he was talking about.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Blueskies
@Chris: EXACTLY.
Georgie Snufflepuss really needs to never, ever venture outside the confines of the morning gabfest he nominally presides over. The guy is a fucking embarrassment. How in the FUCK do you not hammer THE CANDIDATE on having no clue about 1) what’s in the party platform, and worse, 2) THE ONE INITIATIVE IN THE PLATFORM THAT HIS CAMPAIGN HAD ANY INPUT INTO????!!!
Jesus wept.
Blueskies
@Capri: Bullshit. Name one other candidate that had no clue about the party platform. Shit, even Dubyah knew the platform, both times!
SiubhanDuinne
@philadelphialawyer:
Someone of my acquaintance, who actually knows about these things (I do not), told me many years ago that there are only two days of the year during which no major sporting/athletic activity takes place: the day before and the day after MLB’s All-Star Game. They’re not all the highest-profile playoffs, series, and Bowls, but there’s always going to be someone feeling torn between watching a debate/political speech/rally/convention and a baseball or football game, or a tennis match, or a fucking golf tournament, or a NASCAR/Indy/Formula One race, or a horse race, or hockey, or basketball, or Olympic trials in any of several dozen sports. It is just a deeply stupid argument, and typical of Hair Drumpf.
gogol's wife
@sinnedbackwards:
Da, spasibo, poniatno. Golosuite za Trampa.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Hey, I just got Sebag Montefiore’s The Romanovs as a birthday present. Have you read it yet? Just getting started in it, but it is bringing a bunch of things back to my mind from when I took History of Russia during Fall term of my freshman year.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, I have that Ostrovsky book first in the queue. He’s an entertaining writer, so I might get it at some point. His Stalin book is fun.
Glennis
@Baud: Also, nice way to drive a wedge between Pence and Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: I was also given one of his novels: One Night in Winter. There was kind of a theme going.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
I didn’t know he wrote novels.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Four of them. Per Wikipedia.
burnspbesq
@SFAW:
The best Canadian sports team names are found in the summer box lacrosse leagues. If you’re in BC tonight, you could catch the New Westminster Salmonbellies against the Coquitlam Adanacs.
PurpleGirl
@Mike G: He4 also seems to think that if he says he didn’t say/do something and then makes up some other story as to what he/did and why, that wipes out the whole incident. He “may” know how to send a tweet but he hasn’t learned the first rule of the Internet… the internet never forgets. once you’ve committed the words or film to the ether it’s there forever. We can itemize the lies.
PurpleGirl
@Baud: If he does that then we will hace to change the titles John Adams suggested for various roles — The Vice President will have to be His Excellency and the President will be His Superfluous Majesty.
philadelphialawyer
@SiubhanDuinne: I think more recently MLB is off on the Wed and Thurs following the All Star Game. But on the Monday night preceding the All Star Game there is the Home Run Derby. And I believe that MLS soccer, which is maybe close to the NHL in popularity in the USA, had games on the Wed after the baseball All Star Game. I think the British Open Golf Championship also began early Thursday morning of that week in the USA. And the Tour de France is now a pretty big thing in the USA, and it was going on that week as well. So, even in the one, short, interval when their formerly were no “games,” there are games now. Never mind motor sports, Olympic trials, and the other stuff you mentioned.
There are always games, and it is ridiculous to expect that the general election debates, the dates of which, of course, are set more than a year in advance (and before the NFL games are even scheduled), by a non partisan commission (no Donald, not by Crooked Hillary), will not conflict with any of them, is rather stupid. And why is this concern limited to sporting events? What about other popular TV shows? The fall is when all new, non re run, episodes of hit shows are aired. How about the days when new installments of popular movie franchises come out? Should all those dates be off limits too?
The whole thing is a bunch of shit.
Brachiator
@philadelphialawyer: The demographics for sports radio listeners overlaps NFL fans, but is wealthier and includes more women.
Not sure of a political beliefs breakdown
philadelphialawyer
@Brachiator: hmmm…I found this from four years ago..”Man Cave. With an average age of 48, sports radio has one of the oldest listener bases on the airwaves, and with 74 percent of its listeners being male, it is the most gender-lopsided radio genre.” And that sure sounds like Trump demographics to me. I also saw some stuff that indicated that, when not listening to sports radio, sports radio listeners listened to all news and country stations more than anything else. Which also supports my theory.
Brachiator
@philadelphialawyer:
I don’t know. I think there is some variation here, depending on market. I listen to talk radio sometimes, because I can’t stand most political radio or the smug boredom of NPR. In Los Angeles and other markets, sports radio welcomes women and even kids who love a sport, especially if they are knowledgeable.
But yeah, it seems to be more conservative.
Barb2
@Kristine:
Isn’t that the truth? Text book stuff. All the theories are being tested. This is like a “what would happen if?” Exam.
From narcissists, sociopath, chaos management style. Mob psychology, cult leaders, pathological liar. Etc etc etc add to the list.
Peter H Desmond
“ferret-topped” is a distinct improvement.
tkrr
@gogol’s wife: If I remember correctly, the actual numbers in the referendum probably went pro-Russia, but it’s impossible to tell for sure because the reported result was so frikkin’ silly.
Anyway, I suspect pro-Russia numbers aren’t what they once were, what with Crimea being dependent on Russia for everything and the Kerch Strait bridge still under construction.